1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Do you want to position yourself for career success? Master 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: the Fundamentals of Business with hb X Core, a three 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: course online program developed by Harvard Business School faculty. Immerse 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: yourself in real world case studies as you dive into 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: business analytics, Economics for Managers, and financial accounting. The three 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: courses that Harvard Business School faculty determined were essential to 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: becoming fluent in the language of business. Boost your resume 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: and grow your network, and advance your career with the 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: hb X Core credential from hb X and Harvard Business School. 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: Just go to about hb X dot com slash how 11 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: Stuff Works. Once again, that's about hb X dot com 12 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: slash how Stuff Works. Welcome to stuff you missed in 13 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: history class from how stuff Works dot com. Hello, and 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry and I'm Wilson Tracy. 15 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: I'm really excited. Do you know why? I do know why? 16 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: It's because today we have an opportunity to combine two 17 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: great things on the podcast, those two things being history 18 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: and baking. Uh. And to me, this fits really perfectly 19 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: into sort of fall discussions because it's the weather cools off, 20 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: baking gets a little more appealing. You don't mind so 21 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: much if your kitchen gets hot, and it also leads 22 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: into so many of the kitchen traditions of the autumn 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: and winter months. We're talking with writer and Burn. So 24 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: and Burn has written numerous New York Times best selling cookbooks. 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: Probably her most famous are the ones in the Cake 26 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: Makes Doctor series. She's also trained in Paris at La 27 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: vejun A Cold de cuisine and has even cooked alongside 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: Julia Child, which that's just awesome. Ann's educational background is 29 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: in journalism. She's the former food editor of the Atlanta 30 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: Journal Constitution, and that's supposed that she held for fifteen years. 31 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: But Ann's newest book delves into history and specifically the 32 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: place of cake in the United States, from the early 33 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: colonies in the sixt Dred's right up to the modern era. 34 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: And it's a combination of baking recipes and the history 35 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: that they reflect, and it's a really deep dive into 36 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: the relationship between kitchen and culture. So we're going to 37 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: hop right into my talk with and Burn. Hello, and 38 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. Thank you, it's great to be here. Oh, 39 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to talk to you. Uh. So, we 40 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: have already told our listeners about your new book. But 41 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: one of the things that I want to ask you 42 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: right out of the gate. You have written many cookbooks, 43 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: and I also have to give you a quick personal 44 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: thank you for the Cake Mix. Cake Mix Doctor bakes 45 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: gluten free. Uh. That's a big favorite of mine, so 46 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: so um because as everybody who has ever tried to 47 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: bake a gluten free cake knows, they often come out 48 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: really clunky and not delicious. But that makes it very 49 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: very easy to make really delicious gluten free cakes. But 50 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: but I'm wondering what made you want to shift a 51 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: little bit more back to your journalism background and write 52 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: about baking from a historical perspective. I think it's just 53 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: where I am in my life. You know. I wrote 54 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: The Cake Mix Doctor at a time when my three 55 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: children were young and our house was completely chaotic, you know. 56 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: I was looking for solutions every single day. Uh, and 57 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: and so for a cake for for me to open 58 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: up the pantry door and to grab a box of 59 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: cake mix and make it better. Um, seemed perfectly natural 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: and normal for my life. And I had no idea 61 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: that I would write this book that would sort of 62 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: resonate with other busy people across America like I did. 63 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: But you know where I am now. My kids are 64 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: mostly grown, uh, And I love to write, and I've 65 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: always left to write, and I've loved to research. Uh. 66 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: And my my my husband's a big history buff. And 67 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: you know, he was the one who actually was starting 68 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: to listen to your podcast and kind of told me 69 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: about them and to really you know, And I felt like, 70 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: also as a writer and as a journalist, when you 71 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: had questions about a recipe or the story behind a recipe, 72 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: the answers were not there. You know that you can't 73 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: google that and come up with the true story of 74 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: the real story. So I thought, you know, there's something here, 75 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: and I need to document the story behind all these 76 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: great kikes. Well. And you mentioned, uh in the acknowledgements 77 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: at the end of the book that as you are 78 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: writing it, you couldn't believe no one had ever done 79 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: this before, And I was having the same reaction paging 80 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: through it. I was like, why has nobody ever assembled 81 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: this before? It's such a fantastic read, as well as 82 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: having yummy things to make out of it, thank you. 83 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: You know, one you would have to be passionate about 84 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: k which I am who is it? Uh? And two 85 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: it took a lot of work. But you know, I 86 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: think that people who are interested in history and a 87 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: journalist who were accustomed to interviewing people and asking a 88 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: whole lot of questions, UM, we're totally comfortable with this. 89 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: And I loved um finding a lot of the people 90 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: that I've known throughout my career, um, you know, retired 91 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: on some ranch in California or whatever they're doing, and 92 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: they were there and they answered questions for me, and 93 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: it was wonderful. I have to wonder, because there is 94 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: so much research that went into this book, what your 95 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: most surprising revelation was that you turned up all doing 96 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: all that research? Um. You know, I think that I wonder. 97 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: I had a couple of them. One was when I 98 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: was researching the Pennsylvania Dutch cooking, which was really a 99 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: big force behind a lot of our great American cakes. 100 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: To find that there were two groups of people there 101 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: were cake bakers or pie bakers. I had no idea 102 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: that there was sort of a class system. That was 103 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: really interesting to me. Another one was researching, um, the 104 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: Edith Warner chocolate cake that was baked UM during World 105 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: War Two, when there really right before War two, when 106 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: when the scientists were out working on the Manhattan Project 107 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: and here was this, you know, school teacher from Philadelphia 108 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: moves out to the West for sort of a peaceful 109 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: life and realize that she's baking cakes for um, the 110 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: man who created the Adam bomb. It's just I don't 111 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: I felt like it was a continuous, just discovery of 112 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: amazing things that happened around cake. Well, and there are, 113 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: like I said, there are so many wonderful little discoveries 114 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: for the reader. Kind of I almost used the phrase 115 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: baked into the book, but even I'm not going to 116 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: be that funny um that I can see where that 117 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: would happen in the research process, Like I think it 118 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: would probably be a state of perpetual wonder. And one 119 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: of the things that I wanted to talk about is, uh, 120 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: you mentioned in the beginning of the book how the 121 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: basic ingredients of cake, so flour, eggs, butter, and sugar 122 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: have always been there, but they've evolved over time. Can 123 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about that evolution and how 124 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: it's changed what cake really is? Yes, definitely. You know, 125 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: an important interview I had was with Leney Sorenson, who 126 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: is an African American historian in Virginia and has been 127 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: a scholar of the Mary Randolph Virginia Housewife's books. And 128 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: I'm so fortunate to have talked to leney early in 129 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: their research and she set me straight. And she's sitting 130 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: and you have to look at this book, um as 131 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: the all about the ingredients and what were the ingredients 132 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: and who had access to them, because that really formed 133 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: the keg and really butter, eggs, sugar, flour, those are 134 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: the key components of a basic keke. Now, of course 135 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: we can add baking powdery in when it was invented, 136 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: but really it was those four. And so if you 137 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: look at them independently and say who had access to that, 138 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: what time of year was it, where the eggs laying 139 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: or the chickens laying the eggs were the was the 140 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: butter fresh? Did you have butter? Was it? War time? 141 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: Was but a ration? You know? Sugar? Who could afford sugar? 142 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: Did you use molasses instead? And flower flower was largely 143 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: regional and it was you know, milled locally and during wartime, 144 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: you know, Americans were not supposed to use a lot 145 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 1: of wheat flowers, but to save it for the troops. 146 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: So that's where you've had other types of flowers come in, 147 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: such as rye flour used in cake baking and wave 148 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: for that. Corn meal was used in the late well 149 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: early eighteen hundreds, uh, in pound cakes as a substitute 150 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: Indian meal. So at different times in our country's history, 151 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: these four ingredients have been different, have changed, and that 152 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: affected the types of cakes that were banked. And you 153 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: also talk about how in testing these various recipes. Uh, 154 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: some of the recipes and I quote you here left 155 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: a whole lot to the imagination. Uh, did you have 156 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: any disasters in the testing phase. I just picture some 157 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: horrible wonder happening. Oh. Yes, we always have disasters in 158 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 1: testing recipes. Um. One sometime when they come from chef 159 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: rather those recipes, and the other when they come from 160 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: historic cookbooks. UM. Yeah, it's because anybody who's ever picked 161 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: up an old cookbook knows that old recipes were essentially 162 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: just an ingredient list. You've got no method whatsoever. So 163 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: you kind of had to do a little research and 164 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: find out what what was the oven they were using, 165 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: what kind of pan would this have gone in? Um, 166 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Quick ovens, you know, are a hot oven and It 167 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: really wasn't n til the turn of the twentieth century 168 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: that you know, standardized measures came into cake baking, and 169 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: and and then we found, you know, the smostats on 170 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: ovens a little bit lighter than that. So yeah, so 171 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: to to be a modern cook and interpret old recipes, 172 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: you have to do a little bit of digging, and 173 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: then you have to do some testings. Uh I'm imagining eating. 174 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: The evidence couldn't have been that bad most of the time, well, 175 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: especially the ginger The early gingerbread Let's just say that 176 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: gingerbread was a very loose term for a cake. It 177 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: encompassed everything from gingerbread cookie like a hard tack gingerbread cookie, 178 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: but actually was bought by sailors um and used to 179 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: sort of to ease their stomach on sea voyages because 180 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: ginger was a stomach settler. And then later than that, 181 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: cakey gingerbreads became a more respond version of gingerbread. They 182 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: had molasses in there in spice, but they also had eggs, 183 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: So gingerbreads, you don't know what you're gonna get. When 184 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: you see an old gingerbread recipe, you can kind of 185 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: look at the ingredients and have some idea if it's 186 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: got eggs in it, if the sugar ratio is pretty high, 187 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: it's going to be a cake youre gingerbread. But you 188 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: just have to send them well the good news is 189 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: even bad gingerbread, it's probably pretty good gingerbreads. You can 190 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: always dunk it in something. Actually. Uh. And you mentioned 191 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: in the section of the book that features recipes from 192 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: eight hundred to eighteen sixty nine that this is really 193 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: a period where cakes started to diversify a great deal 194 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: in the United States. Can you talk about the catalysts 195 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: for that phase of growth that really ultimately changed what 196 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: the word cake sort of meant? Definitely? You know, before then, 197 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: I think cakes had been very British. Um. You know, 198 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: you look at your water cake, your sponge cakes, your pancakes, 199 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: your fruit cakes, your tea even the tea cakes when 200 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 1: cakes were served very British. But you're right, there were 201 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: new directions in our country. There was an expansion of 202 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: our country and a really great example of sort of 203 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: a new American cake at that time would have been 204 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: the Cowboy keke um. And that was a cake that 205 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: was a frontier cake. People were taking ingredients with them 206 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: and moving west, and they were baking cakes in you know, 207 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: cast iron Dutch ovens, and oftentimes, you know, they couldn't 208 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: they couldn't take their hands with them to lay eggs. 209 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: The eggs would not have survived the trip west, so 210 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: they had to make eggless cakes. And those are the 211 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: cakes that are what a lot of people call them 212 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: boiled raisin cakes, where you actually boil raisins down with 213 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: water until they're just caramel colored, and then you use 214 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: the liquid and the cake and then use that the 215 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: raisins in there and that provides um a lot of 216 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: the fat and the cake and it it makes the 217 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: cake moist for use, you know, without eggs. And people 218 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: continued to bake this type of cake all through American history. 219 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: It went by different names. It was often taught called 220 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: war cake. Um the wonderful writer MFK. Fisher writes about 221 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: war cakes that she remembers um and as a child 222 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: growing up. And they were the same thing as the 223 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: cowboy cake. So it was a cheap cake. Well, and 224 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: it's funny when I was looking through your book and 225 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,599 Speaker 1: I noticed the cowboy cake and the picture it looks 226 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: so moist and delicious that I thought there has to 227 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: be a ton of butter in it, and then when 228 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: I was looking at the ingredients of like not a 229 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: disproportionate amount. No, it's just the moisture from all of that. 230 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: That reason it is it's a really fun cake for 231 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: anybody to make today. I love that cake. It's a 232 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: big hit, especially in cooler weather. And another example I 233 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: think of just the westward movement is are the cakes 234 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: that are made with nuts that are indigenous to America, 235 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: like the hickory nut cakes, the black walnut cakes. Because 236 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: if people traveled and as they pioneered new land, they 237 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: forage naturally from what was growing on that land. And 238 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: and I bet a lot of people can think about 239 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: recipes from the grandmother, great great grandmother that may have 240 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: had black walnuts in them or hickory nuts. It's so cool. Yeah. 241 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: And the jam cake is another important cake of that 242 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: period because that was German influence. And the Germans who 243 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: settled in the Ohio area and moved south into Kentucky, Tennessee, 244 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: North Alabama, and then over to the Carolinas, they brought 245 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 1: a very German recipe, a jam kake recipe with them, 246 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: and as while blackberries were growing, they would put up 247 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: the blackberries into jam in the summer, Tom and then 248 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: for the holidays, UM make a jamkake to celebrate a 249 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: spice kake that had the BlackBerry jam and the kake. 250 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: So I really like how she tracked the way that 251 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: that pioneer travel developed new kinds of cakes as people 252 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: got access to different ingredients. Yeah, it really does, as 253 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: she said, make you think about kind of backwards engineering 254 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: cakes that maybe have been in your family for a 255 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: long time, and think about, oh, that's why that ingredient 256 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: probably became part of our our kitchen's vernacular. And I 257 00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: have to say, every time she talks about another kind 258 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: of cake as we were discussing, I just want to 259 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: run in my kitchen and try baking it because they 260 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: all sound amazing. Coming up, we are going to talk 261 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: about the place of chocolate cake, which is a favorite 262 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: of mine in the United States history. But first we're 263 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: going to pause for a brief word from a sponsor. 264 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: A lot of the time we are trying to eat better, 265 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: make healthier choices, but there's a lot of junk food 266 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: that's really tempting. And I completely understand. I judge no 267 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: one that opts for the candy bar, but we all 268 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: know we could be doing a little bit better. You 269 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: can avoid that guilt and feel really good about what 270 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: you're eating for your snacks with Nature Box. 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I am still really 280 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: really into all the lentil loops, in particular age shutter 281 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: lentil loops. Uh. They're particularly a big hit at my 282 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: house because number one, I love to eat them. Number Two, 283 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: my husband doesn't as much love them, so I get 284 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: more for me. That's why the any of this tree 285 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: racha cashews are popular at our house because my husband 286 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: knows I won't eat them while he's gone, which is 287 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: a problem that I have with other snacks. So if 288 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: you want to get in on this yummy nous. Here 289 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: is how it works. 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And now, as promised, chocolate 307 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: cake Talk, which is really quite fascinating, whether you love 308 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: it or not, it's a pretty interesting story. And there's 309 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: also some fun references to early cooking schools in America 310 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: as An talks about it. So let's hop right back in. 311 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: The Next thing I wanted to talk about was chocolate cake, 312 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: because today this is like a standard cake in the US. 313 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: It's in every American bakery, most restaurants have it on 314 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: their menu. It's one of those first cakes you bake 315 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: if you do any baking at home. But it really 316 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: didn't appear on the scene until the late eighteen hundreds. Um, 317 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: can can you talk about the genesis of America's sort 318 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: of love a fair and identity with chocolate cake? Yes, definitely, 319 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: because it's a personal passion of mine. Um. You know, 320 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: chocolate with really first years in candy making and in 321 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: um blazes on cakes, glazes and frostings and things. People 322 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: were not very adventurous in with chocolate in the beginning. 323 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: But enter you know Fannie Farmer and all those cooking 324 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: school teachers from Boston and Philadelphia, Well, they started experimenting 325 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: with chocolate for two reasons. One, it was just the 326 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: time that people were in. It was sort of a 327 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: scientific period of time, American time, and they were curious. 328 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: They had cooking schools that were very focused on measurements 329 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: and health and sanitation. Um. They were interested in feeding invalids. Uh. 330 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: There were a lot of invalids in our country, and 331 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: old cookbooks of that period of tom had chapters on 332 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: caring for invalids. So you've got these very scientific, health 333 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: focused women with this new ingredient chocolate, and what do 334 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: they do with it? They tell you to use it sparingly, 335 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: but that it has its benefits. It is going to 336 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: make you feel bader, it's going to stimulate your health 337 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: and give you energy. Uh. And then the chocolate companies, 338 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: the early chocolate companies in our country, hired these cooking 339 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 1: school teachers to develop recipes for them. So those like 340 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: the Baker chocolate recipes, Aurora Chocolate, they were these ladies 341 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: were sort of sidelining, um, you know, creating chocolate recipes 342 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: that today a lot of them are still on the 343 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: back of the Baker chocolate box. So and so chocolate 344 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: crept into cake baking very gently. One of the first 345 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: cakes made with chocolate we call it today a mahogany 346 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: cake because it is very pale in color and it 347 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: has that wonderful whippy seven minute frosting on it. Um. 348 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: But if that's that's how chocolate cakes used to look 349 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: very pale by comparison to the way chocolate is used 350 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: in big, deep, dark cakes today. And then I'm going 351 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: to jump forward a little bit because in the mid 352 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: twentieth century there was sort of another explosion of cake 353 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: experimentation and development of flavors. Um. Can you talk about one, 354 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: and I'm sure we could guess, but we need it 355 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: from the expert. One why that era saw such variety 356 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: in baking, and then too, how it was not just 357 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: the realm, which people might initially think of the boon 358 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: of stay at home wives, but also working women. Definitely, 359 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: are you talking just post war war before or during 360 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: the war period, I would say post World War first war. Yeah, 361 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: so that brought a lot of change to not only 362 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: homes and kitchens, but also the way cake was portrayed. 363 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: I did not Knowdge researching this book that after WORL 364 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: War two, a lot of the gas were given um 365 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 1: um sort of just given scholarships to attend culinary academies 366 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 1: and to uh study pastry making. And that was the 367 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: boom in commercial bakeries that came after World War two. 368 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: And that's when we kind of think of the white 369 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: sheep cake with the whippy you know, bakery, vegetable for vegetables, shortening, frosting, 370 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: that's from that era, that's when that came to be. 371 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: Before World War Two, cakes were small. Cakes were very small, 372 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: and in fact cupcakes. The first cupcakes were baked during 373 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: World War two wartime, when women who were in the 374 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: factories working would make small, unfrosted cakes called cupcakes and 375 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: bring them in to the factory and share them with 376 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: their coworkers. But after World War Two, everything got big. 377 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,719 Speaker 1: You know, suburbs got big, cards got larger, and so 378 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: cakes got larger. Um Cake mixes were sort of developed 379 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: and experimented with during World War World War two, but 380 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: it was after World War too, when we had the 381 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: stay at home moms and the more baking, more entertaining, 382 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: that you saw more cake mixes being used in all 383 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: kinds of convenience products, really in the American kitchen. And 384 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: then those big you know, I think in the late 385 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: fifties we think of, you know, the the big popular cakes. 386 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: The red velvet cake was a big one. I think 387 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: the pineapple upside down cake, even though that's the nineteen 388 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: twenties cake that was really still popular. Um, you know, 389 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: Hershey bar cake was a popular period. Fruit cocktail cake, 390 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: German chocolate cake came out of that period. But it 391 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 1: was that the early sixties changed even those again because 392 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: we had the influence, the French chef influence of Julia 393 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: Child and the Kennedy's in the White House, and that's 394 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 1: what changed cake baking one more time, and it gave 395 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: us the flowerless chocolate cake that we loved day and 396 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: then I could say later in the sixties, the whole 397 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: California movement. UM. I interviewed Lindsay Sheer, who was the 398 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: first pastry chef for Alice Waters at Schapanese. Shapanese opened 399 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: in Berkeley in nineteen seventy one, and I really I 400 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: believe that that restaurant, in the way those pastry chefs 401 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: were cooking there, changed the way that we bake cakes 402 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: today because the cakes were more rustic, they were largely unfrosted, 403 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: they were more Mediterranean in style. It's really fun to 404 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: see that connection. Yeah, it's it's such a again. I mean, 405 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: this is obvious because this is really what your book 406 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: is about, but it is fascinating to watch how cakes 407 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: develop in stride with cultural changes. That are going on, 408 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: they they so reflect the time. And I have to 409 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: laugh when you are talking about this era of development, 410 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: just personally, because I think back and those are all 411 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: of the cakes that my mom made. I was born 412 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: in the very early seventies, so she had learned those 413 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: when she was at that age and in that era. 414 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: And then those are the cakes that kind of carried 415 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: her forward in life that she was baking. So when 416 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: you talk about and those are cake, yes, the German 417 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: chocolate cake, the Italian cream cakes. Think about the cakes 418 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: that we still baked today. If you looked at a 419 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: period in time that probably was that gave us. Are 420 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: a lot of our legacy cakes in America. It's probably 421 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: from nineteen fifty the nineteen seventy five. And you reference 422 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: and write about in this book numerous historical cookbooks that 423 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: you that you worked with. Do you have a favorite 424 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: among those? Oh? I love them. I love the housewife cookbooks. 425 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: And that there's a there's actually a big box in 426 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: the book on the original housewive. Um tried to have 427 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: a little fun with it, you know, because there was 428 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: the Virginia Housewife, Mary Randolph, the Kentucky house Life, and 429 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: the Sarah and the South Carolina Housewife among and then 430 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: even before that there were German housewife books written in 431 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: German u with the whole idea that you you it 432 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: was not just cooking and baking, but it was making 433 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: a home and it was a lot of household sort 434 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: of primer advice on how to set a table, how 435 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: to how to be married, how to how to be happy, 436 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: how to raised children. I love reading those old books. 437 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: There were a lot of fun. Uh. This is one 438 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: thing that just piqued my interest when I was looking 439 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 1: at the book. Will you tell us about mayonnaise cake? 440 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: You know, mayonnaise cake is is a good example. Let's 441 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: just say it's possibly a depression ere a cake. It's 442 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: a hard times cake, as so many of our cakes 443 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: and other foods like casseroles were because people were trying 444 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: to make do so some them with a mayonnaise cake. 445 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: You've got you're using mayonnaise and the cake which has 446 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: both the eggs and the oil. It became sort of 447 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: a short cut cake, an economizing cake. Um the nineteens, 448 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: there are probably an idea that came out of the 449 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties that then became part of pop culture. In 450 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: food largely helped by food manufactors who would put the 451 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: recipe on the back of the container. Have you ever 452 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: made a mayonnaise cake. I have made a mayonnaise cake, 453 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: and uh, and they're they're incredibly moist. A lot of 454 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: people love them. They are a little salty for me. 455 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: That's my own little thing, mayonnaise. I think commercial mayonnaise 456 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: has a lot of salt in its. Possibly if you 457 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: made a mayonnaise cake with homemade mannaise, which sort of 458 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: defeats the purpose, um, you know, you wouldn't have that. 459 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: But I find them alito salty from my taste because 460 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: that by the time you add baking powder, which has 461 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: salt in it, and um, you know, maybe some salts 462 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: in the cake. That's just a little personal. Uh. Was 463 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: there any other ingredient that you came across in your 464 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: research that either made you blanch or wonder why anyone 465 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: would put it in a cake? Well, there's the chocolate 466 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: sauer Kraut cake. That's um. You know. That was when 467 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: I was writing for the Atlanta newspapers way back when 468 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 1: I remember receiving a chocolate sauer Kraut cake recipe from 469 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: the Sauer Kraut Growers of America or something and thinking, okay, 470 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: well that'll wind up in the trash. And then I 471 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: received another one and we ended up writing sort of 472 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: a column on the wacky recipes that we received from 473 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: food manufacturers, and that was one of them. So I 474 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: actually baked it and it was pretty good. It's pretty good. 475 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: So when I was doing the research on this book, 476 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: I realized that it kept popping up again in older 477 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,239 Speaker 1: cookbooks in Idaho at out west, and I didn't want 478 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: to forget that part of the country. Um, so we 479 00:27:53,920 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: did include it. And it was an early German cake recipe. Okay, 480 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: they had the sauer kraut. They realized that sauer kraut 481 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: made the cake more moist, and they were baking with chocolates. 482 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: Germans have always cakes. Germans have always loved to bake 483 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: with chocolate and with spices. So that's a really nice cake. 484 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: But another cake I think that is important and sort 485 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: of like that is the apple sauce cake. Yeah, but 486 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: that's why I actually called the recipe in the book 487 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventeen apple sauce Apple sauce cake because it 488 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: is a classic World War One recipe when people were 489 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: trying to do without eggs, baking without baking out, without fat, 490 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: without eggs. So they found that they could actually cook 491 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: down make apple sauce out of their own apples, or 492 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: you could purchase apple sauce then at the grocery, and 493 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: it was a shortcut cake. And there were a lot 494 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: of the US government recipe brochures that were provided to 495 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: people on ways to bake during times of war, and 496 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: apple sauce cake was one that was baked universally and 497 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: it still is today. Great egg So of course it 498 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: makes absolute total sense that a lot of the more 499 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: unique cakes that we have were born from trying to 500 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: make things work with various ingredients that were sparse during wartime. 501 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about that with cakes before, but 502 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: we have talked about that general theme on the podcast 503 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: before when we talked about spam making its way into 504 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: wartime cuisine, especially in places that had a high, high 505 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: percentage of American gies. Yeah, it's one of those things. 506 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: When I asked her about mayonnaise cake, I asked because 507 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: I thought it was so funny. But then when she 508 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: talks about, oh, it's because they were trying to make 509 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: up for, you know, not having eggs and oil readily available. 510 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, duh, I feel fool well, and I 511 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: think I think angel food cake came from the dilemma 512 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: of like, what do I do with all these egg whites? 513 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: I needed all the yolks for this recipe? What do 514 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: I do with all this egg white? Now? I didn't 515 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: ask her about that, although I have heard that before. 516 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: And coming up, we're actually going to talk about Mardi 517 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: Gras and kincake. But before we do, let's pause for 518 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: a quick break and we will talk about one of 519 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,959 Speaker 1: our fabulous sponsors. So smartphones pretty much almost ubiquitous at 520 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: this point. But when you lose your smartphone, you don't 521 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: feel all that smart. I the thing I lose is 522 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: not all that smart. It's my keys, and they're always 523 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: in my home. I mean I haven't literally lost them. 524 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: I have stuck them somewhere that I cannot remember. Uh. 525 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: And Tracker makes this absolutely a thing of the past. Normally, previously, 526 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: in the pre Tracker world of my life, if if 527 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: I misplaced my keys somewhere in the house, it became 528 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: this lengthy ordeal of tearing things apart trying to find 529 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: my keys, and like texting my husband to say, have 530 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: you seen my keys? And if he's busy, then I 531 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: get more frustrated that he's not answering me at my 532 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: demand to tell me where my keys are when it's 533 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: not his responsibility to find my keys. Uh, this is 534 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: no longer an issue because of Tracker. Uh. There in 535 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: the Tracker app there's a and that you can press 536 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: that will make your tracker make a noise. And so 537 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: you can just press that button in your house and 538 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: your keys will ring at you and you can go 539 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: find them. So I mean, Tracker makes losing things a 540 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: thing of the past. It's this coin sized device that 541 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: lets you find your keys, your while, it's your bags, 542 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: your computer, anything in seconds. You just pare it to 543 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: your phone and attach it to anything and you'll find 544 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: it's precise location with a tap of the button. It 545 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: is super, super easy. If you lose your phone, you 546 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: can press your button. You can press the button on 547 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: the tracker in your phone will ring even when it 548 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: is on silent. With more than one point five million devices, 549 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: Tracker also has the largest crowd GPS network in the world, 550 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: So when your lost item is not physically in your house, 551 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: it's going to show up on a map, even if 552 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: it is miles away, you will never lose anything again. 553 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: With Tracker. Listeners to this show get a special discount 554 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: of thirty off your entire order. Go to the spelled 555 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: t h e Tracker dot com and into promo code history, 556 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: the hardest thing you'll have to find us their website. 557 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: Go to the Tracker dot com right now, enter primo 558 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: code history for thirty off your entire order. Again, that 559 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: is the Tracker dot Com Perromo code history. Now we 560 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: will get back to our story. So you may or 561 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: may not know that the king cake that you're probably 562 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: getting from your local bakery is not really like either 563 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: of the original styles of king cake served here or 564 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: in France, and we're going to talk about that with 565 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: Anne Burne as well as presidential cakes in this next segment. 566 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: Next is a little bit of a selfish topic because 567 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: I love Mardi Gras and the cake that most of 568 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: us are eating today and calling kingcake that we get 569 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: from bakeries is really more of a Danish. But you 570 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: have in this book a couple of other versions of 571 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: king cake that are a little more authentic to France 572 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: and New Orleans in an earlier time period. Will you 573 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: talk about those a bit. Yes, definitely. I have two 574 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: kincakes in the book. The first one, which is in 575 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: the first chapters, the oldest, and that is New Orleans kincake. 576 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: That is a Brioche style cake. So it is a 577 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: it's like a bread cake because it has yeast in it, 578 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: but it's sweet. And that came to New Orleans. We're 579 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: thinking about seventeen eighteen with the Basque settlers in New Orleans. 580 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: So New Orleans was was just a fascinating place. Is 581 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: still a fascinating place I think in America for food, 582 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: but we tend to think of early American um cakes 583 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: and cooking just from the colonies. There was so much 584 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: going on in New Orleans with with the French and 585 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: the Spanish and the Basque and the Haitians and just 586 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: all that sort of melting pot that created the Creole 587 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: and the Cajun cuisines that we love today. So that 588 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: was the first one. A yeast a yeast face. And 589 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: then in the seventies um there became popularized a cake 590 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: that is made in a lot of home in New 591 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: Orleans and it still is today for mardy gras or 592 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: to be served on Epiphany, and it is the French style, 593 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: which is puff pastry, So that those are the two 594 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: distinct styles. And and the puff pastry version was popularized 595 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: in the seventies. What was Pepperidge Farm, you know, Frisen 596 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 1: puff pastry being available. But what you have served most 597 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: of the time to tourists, uh during mardy Gras is 598 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: a dank like you said, you're right, is a Danish. 599 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: And that is because those bakeries, um could get commercial 600 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 1: Danish from Cisco or whatever, you know, distributor pre made 601 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: and then they turn it into kincake. That's not true. Kinkake. 602 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: Kincake is either brioche or puff pastry. Well, and I 603 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: imagined the Danish stuff ships a little more easily, and 604 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: I know there is huge business around shipping out from 605 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: New Orleans at this point. Very true, but for fun 606 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: makes the French kincake all of them. Another thing that 607 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to mention was this really darling chart that 608 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: you have in the book with presidents and their favorite cakes. 609 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,919 Speaker 1: Did you come across any information in your research about 610 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: whether presidential preference made a cake more popular during his 611 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: time in office? You know, I looked for that, and 612 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: you would think that it might, but probably the one 613 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: cake of all cakes, and it's in the book as 614 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: the Mary Lincoln white almond cake was the cake that 615 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: was most associated with a president, and unfortunately, I think 616 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: that's because, you know, President Lincoln was assassinated, and so 617 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: this recipe Mary Lincoln, Mary Todd Lincoln's recipe, which is 618 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: a Lexington, Virginia recipe. It's essentially a pound cake with 619 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: almond's and it's lovely. UM was a cake that she 620 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: begged for President Lincoln when they courted, and it became 621 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 1: aim the cake that memorialized Lincoln after his death. So 622 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: it was baked and served at banquets UH to honor 623 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 1: President Lincoln. UM. A little the same the Washington cake 624 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: is baked throughout history. Not so much anymore, but pick 625 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: up an old cookbook and you're gonna find a Washington cake. 626 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: And it's kind of a one size fits all cake. 627 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: If it's a pound cake, you can call it a 628 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,959 Speaker 1: Washington cake. If you want to grate some linen vest 629 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: in it, it's a Washington cake. It was just a 630 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: way of you know, celebrating George Washington. But in more 631 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: recent times, I don't think so we've got you know, 632 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 1: the I've got a Sarah Poke uh, wife of James K. 633 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 1: Poke her hickory nut cake in here. But a recent time, 634 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: you know, Resid Doodle Roosevelt was linked all over to 635 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: clothes cake, which is the molass of spice cake. A 636 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 1: lot of references there, And I remember of stories always 637 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: saying that Lyndon Johnson loved so umer fruit. But they 638 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: call in Texas summer fruit cake. And I was so 639 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: curious about what makes a summer fruit cake in winter? 640 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: But that is the cowboy cake. Now does it have 641 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: additional fruit in it in addition to raisins? Or is 642 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: it still just to know? But it's just it would 643 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: be a hot weather it would be a well a 644 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: cake you would bake, a fruit cake you would bake 645 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: in the summertime, as opposed to the one that you 646 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 1: made during the holidays, winter holidays that had a lot 647 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: of expensive fruits in it and maybe with soaked and 648 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: bourbon and wrapped up in cheese cloth, and you know, 649 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: served when the weather was cooler. A summer fruit cake 650 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: was lighter, so it would have been more like a 651 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 1: boiled raisin cake. And then you know, more recently, Jimmy 652 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: Carter has always said they love the Lane cake. I 653 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: always thought that was interesting. This Coast Carter is from 654 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 1: you know, Plains Georgia, home of peanuts. You would think 655 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: it would be something like the peanut cake, but it's 656 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: actually the Alabama steak keke, which is the lane cake. 657 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: But now in that part of the country, I do 658 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: know because I lived down there for a while. Um, 659 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: you know much of the many of the cakes that 660 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: are baked and beloved in in in Alabama are actually 661 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 1: loved by you all in Georgia. Because well, I'm back 662 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: and forth. Cake has no borders in my book. Um, 663 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: I like it from anywhere. Uh. For listeners who are 664 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: perhaps interested in exploring baking with recipes from history, but 665 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: might be a little trepidacious about which ones are good 666 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: to start with, do you have any advice for them? Yes, 667 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: I would try the Lazy Daisy cake. Um, it's a 668 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: one pancake. It's a it's a typical on nineteen thirties cake. 669 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: It's got a great story. It's just a yellow cake 670 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: baked in a nine by thirteen pan. But then you 671 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: make this fabulous OUI gooey topping of cream and brown 672 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: sugar and coconut, and you pour it over and then 673 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,760 Speaker 1: throw it under the broiler. Uh. It makes a great 674 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: cake for a party or for a birthday, and you 675 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: just cut it into squares. It's super easy. Um. The 676 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: others of the James Beard huckleberry cake, you can use 677 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: blueberry is in that instead. That's a great one for 678 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: kids to make. It's just a very simple keke. It's 679 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: easy to put together, and you bake it in a 680 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: square pan. Uh. And both of those give you historical 681 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: baking bragging rights, which is great. Um, that's right. Were 682 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: there any historical techniques that you came across that we're 683 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 1: surprising that might make good tips for modern bakers? Wow? 684 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: So interesting. I came across some odd ones, um, like 685 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: like on the this you know this supposedly the shakers 686 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: um would whip egg whites with a peach branch because 687 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,479 Speaker 1: it imparted the peach flavor into the egg whites, which 688 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,399 Speaker 1: we know cannot be possible. It's just a branch off 689 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: of a tree. Uh. I love that one, and the 690 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,439 Speaker 1: I love I'm literally making the shock face over here. 691 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: That's fantastic. Weird. That was that was pretty crazy. And 692 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: then the old old recipe in the front of the book, 693 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: the water keg. That was really a fun I've never 694 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: heard of a water cake. Well, that was a sponge 695 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: cake that back when sugar was not granulated and it 696 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: was old and cones and you snipped off what you needed, 697 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,720 Speaker 1: you had to dissolve it in hot water and boiling 698 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: water before you could pour it into the cake batter. 699 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: So they used to call those water cakes. UM. But 700 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: I think as far as looking at old recipes and 701 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,440 Speaker 1: learning something from them, I think that we've over I 702 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 1: think today's cakes, modern cakes are over frosted. We put 703 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 1: way too much frosting. So if if a hundred years 704 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: from now, the historian was doing this project and looking back, 705 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: they would probably say of this era and especially all 706 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: the cupcake era and the tall frousting, that this obviously 707 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,760 Speaker 1: was an atomic economic boom, that we had a plenty 708 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: of everything, that the portions were too large, the sugar 709 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: too much. Um. And I think we could look back 710 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 1: on the old cakes and say, you know, they had 711 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: something right. They were baking in an eight inch pan, 712 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: they didn't put they didn't use a lot of frosting. 713 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,840 Speaker 1: Maybe what frosting they did use they just piled on 714 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: top of the cake, or they made a wonderful filling 715 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: of a custard or a lemon curd that went between 716 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: the layers. They used local blackberries or strawberries on top 717 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: of the cake, or they made homemade ice cream to 718 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,800 Speaker 1: go with it, and it was just a pancke. It 719 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: was very simple. So I think that we could maybe 720 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 1: look at how the portions and how cake was presented 721 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 1: going forward and sort of rethink, do we need six 722 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 1: layers and frostings? Sometimes? Sometimes we do. Sometimes I have 723 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: to ask you the Sophie's choice question, do you have 724 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: a favorite cake? I'll give you two because these are 725 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,399 Speaker 1: two that I was not raised on, and that's why 726 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,399 Speaker 1: I think they're my new favorites. It might change six 727 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,040 Speaker 1: months from now, but I love the Chaponese almond for 728 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: it because it is it's just so elegant, homeless, perfect 729 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: for a birthday dinner party. And that's the ship that 730 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: is the Lindsay Year Interview. I did that and I 731 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: love it. You make the whole thing in the food 732 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: processor and poured in the pants. It's dead easy. Um. 733 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: I love that cake. And I also love the Wealthy 734 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,760 Speaker 1: Fudge cake because if you want a bang up delicious 735 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,879 Speaker 1: chocolate layer cake, that Wealthy fudge cake. And and I 736 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: was not raised on it growing up in Tennessee, but 737 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: everyone I talked to in New England was raised on 738 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: the Wealthy Fudge Cake and loved it. Um, And I 739 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: can see why it's a dandy. Uh. There are so 740 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: many cakes in this book that I got ridiculously excited about. 741 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,839 Speaker 1: I am totally making cinnamon flop for my husband at 742 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 1: some point, because he's a big cinnamon and I actually 743 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: did try my hand. There is a recipe and I'm 744 00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: blanking out. There's it's an adjacent recipe to the cinnamon 745 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,719 Speaker 1: flop cake that features a caramel icing. And I did 746 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 1: make that and it was magnificent. Um, so super yummy. 747 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: I was excited at your Brown Derby cake was in there. 748 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: The grapefruit cake. I love that story of Harry Baker, 749 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,280 Speaker 1: that traveling salesman turned pastry shots. Yes. Well, and you 750 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: you probably know this that Disney World serves that cake 751 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,319 Speaker 1: in their version of the Brown Derby. That's right, it's 752 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: actually it's quite good. I have to say it is 753 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 1: quite it's good. And and and this recipe, we it 754 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: took a while to get this one right because we 755 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 1: boy getting those grapefruit. You know the sections the grapefruit 756 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 1: and where to put them and how to arrange them 757 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 1: on the cake so that when you sliced into it, 758 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,359 Speaker 1: they just didn't fall out. And it's a beautiful cake there. Well, 759 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,839 Speaker 1: and it's it's surprising to me how much I love 760 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,239 Speaker 1: that particular cake because I'm not really a citrus fan, 761 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:56,399 Speaker 1: but there's something about the lightness of it combined with 762 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,840 Speaker 1: the citrus that makes it not It doesn't do to 763 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:01,759 Speaker 1: me what other citrus does, which is usually I just 764 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: find the flavor a little overwhelming, but it's really delicious. Um. 765 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 1: You also have an amazing blog, and I have to 766 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: thank you for the cheese date cookies recipe that you 767 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: posted not too long, but thank you that with my 768 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,960 Speaker 1: grandmother's recipe, we made that for a reunion. It is 769 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,759 Speaker 1: such a wonderful and unique thing. And it's one of 770 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: those things that I think if you haven't experimented much 771 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: with baking, uh, you may see those some of those 772 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: ingredients together and go what, but oh, it's beautiful counterpoint. 773 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 1: So for our listeners, with the powdered sugar, did a 774 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,360 Speaker 1: little a little powdered sugar, Okay, I didn't go crazy 775 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: with it, um, which is shocking for me, but it's oh, 776 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,840 Speaker 1: it's so beautiful. So for our listeners, one, I encourage 777 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,280 Speaker 1: you go read this blog but too. It's a date 778 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: wrapped in this cheddar cheese based dough. It is amazing, 779 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: It's so amazing. Um, it's the best. So, speaking of 780 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: your blog, where can people find you online if they 781 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: want to find out more about you can? Well, not 782 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 1: blogging website is and burn dot com a N N 783 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,200 Speaker 1: A b y r n dot com, this' rep blog 784 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 1: and talk about my cookbooks. Um so yeah, and then 785 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 1: you know as far as um my, I've got I'm 786 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 1: all on on all social media, so Facebook as well, 787 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:26,239 Speaker 1: Facebook it's the cake mix Doctor, and Instagram is and 788 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: burn so it kind of in Pinterest is and burn 789 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 1: as well. So yeah, I'm all over and enjoying fine 790 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 1: consistent naming. It's so fun and it's such a delight 791 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: to get to speak with you. I really just delighted 792 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: in this book because thank you so much. Well, I'm 793 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: so glad you like it and and you appreciate all 794 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,480 Speaker 1: this the stories behind cake. I mean there's a whole 795 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: chapter on icings and frostings. I love this book. Um, 796 00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,879 Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, it's wonderful. And I think for any 797 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,839 Speaker 1: that likes baking and particularly likes incorporating a little bit 798 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: of history at home on a daily basis, it's a 799 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: perfect way to get into that. And I will say 800 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,920 Speaker 1: I was a little fretful because I'm a little bit 801 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,800 Speaker 1: I love to bake, but I can be a lazy baker. 802 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,399 Speaker 1: So it was really nice. I had that that concern that, oh, 803 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: these will all be very difficult and have a cajillion steps, 804 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,959 Speaker 1: but it's really not nearly so tricky as I had anticipated, 805 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,799 Speaker 1: so I was delighted. Yeah, it's always a good bet 806 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,759 Speaker 1: too if you feel that way, to look for the 807 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 1: recipes that are the shortest. Um, and thank you so 808 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,960 Speaker 1: so much for sharing your incredible depth of knowledge about 809 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,320 Speaker 1: history and pastry with us. Uh. I feel so fortunate 810 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 1: that we got to spend some time with you today. Well, 811 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:46,839 Speaker 1: it was just such a treat to be on your show. 812 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: I just love it. Ah. Well, that is a ridiculously 813 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 1: delightful compliment. I never feel like I deserve those, but 814 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,800 Speaker 1: I'm happy to have them. Uh. Thank you once again, 815 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,319 Speaker 1: and for our listeners, all of the information she just 816 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: mentioned will be sure to include in the show notes. Uh, 817 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: and everyone can get to historical baking right away, Holly, 818 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,600 Speaker 1: I think you and I agree that, uh where we 819 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,399 Speaker 1: can't totally get behind this cutback on frosting opinion, right, 820 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm I'm like, ah, some sort of insect. I really 821 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,240 Speaker 1: am big on the sugars. Whenever there's cake at the office, 822 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, can I get a corner piece with flour 823 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:39,320 Speaker 1: on it? Yes? Thank you. But I really do encourage 824 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,360 Speaker 1: any of our listeners to kind of test out a 825 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,560 Speaker 1: little bit of historical baking. And I will say the 826 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 1: the caramel icing that I mentioned when I was speaking 827 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 1: with her that I made from her book is really 828 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 1: really delicious and it will satisfy just about any sweet 829 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: tooth and you don't actually need very much. Once again, 830 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,760 Speaker 1: Ann's book, American Cake is a lovely way to connect 831 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 1: with history in the kitchen. And I just want to 832 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,080 Speaker 1: thank Anne so much for spending time with us and 833 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,720 Speaker 1: sharing her incredibly vast knowledge of cake history. She knows 834 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,680 Speaker 1: so much about cake. We were talking on Twitter last 835 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,479 Speaker 1: night as I was reviewing this, and she called herself 836 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: a cake nerd, and I found that terribly enduring. Well, 837 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,120 Speaker 1: and I was so glad you were able to do 838 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,360 Speaker 1: this interview because coincidentally, one day when I was in 839 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,880 Speaker 1: the office and you were not, which is never like 840 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,600 Speaker 1: that very rare, an incredible rarity, I happened to be 841 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: the one who opened the mail and there was a 842 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,160 Speaker 1: review copy of that book, and I was like, this 843 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,680 Speaker 1: is for Holly Holly's thing because I like cake, but 844 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: like you, I knew that was totally year ball game. Well, 845 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,439 Speaker 1: and I it's not in the interview. We talked about 846 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,000 Speaker 1: it after the fact that when the book first came 847 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 1: and I was I was like, how on earth is 848 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,920 Speaker 1: this gonna work? It's cake in History? And then I 849 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,880 Speaker 1: opened it and was like, I'm in so much trouble. 850 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,279 Speaker 1: I'm so deep down a rabbit hole because there is 851 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,840 Speaker 1: so much great history mixed into the book. You know. 852 00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 1: It's not like here's a little brief bit of history 853 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,160 Speaker 1: and then it's all recipe. It's really a lot of 854 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,800 Speaker 1: history and the recipes are phenomenal, and I want to 855 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,200 Speaker 1: make them all. Yeah. Well, and there's definitely cake history 856 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,960 Speaker 1: and the rest of the world too, So yeah, maybe 857 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: someone will will write books of international cake history. That 858 00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: sounds fine to me. I will also read those books, um, 859 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,240 Speaker 1: and now I have a little bit of listener mail. 860 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep it kind of brief because that episode 861 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 1: runs a little bit long because I could not stop 862 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,640 Speaker 1: talking about cake. But I have two postcards. One is 863 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,120 Speaker 1: from our listener Jesse, who says, Dear Tracy and Holly. 864 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,319 Speaker 1: By complete chance, I found myself recently in Bingen, Germany, 865 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,120 Speaker 1: and thanks to your recent podcast on Hildegard von Bingen, 866 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,560 Speaker 1: I knew the story of the city's well known abbess. 867 00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,359 Speaker 1: The church features uh on the front of this Oh, 868 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,719 Speaker 1: the church featured sorry on the front of this postcard 869 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,640 Speaker 1: is home to an altar which portrays Hildegard's life as 870 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,600 Speaker 1: a long time his listener. Thank you for the hours 871 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,840 Speaker 1: and hours of entertainment over the years. So it's a 872 00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:02,320 Speaker 1: lovely photograph of the church where that that alter sits. 873 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 1: And then we got another really cute postcard from Grace 874 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 1: Uh and she just writes a very sweet brief thank 875 00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,920 Speaker 1: you on the back for the podcast. But what I 876 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 1: really really liked is that this postcard is from Tokyo 877 00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,680 Speaker 1: Disney Resort, and it's very cute. It is of the 878 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,759 Speaker 1: seven Dwarves from Snow White, but what's really charming is 879 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:25,760 Speaker 1: that they are holding bamboo shoots, which are not normally 880 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,120 Speaker 1: part of the snow White story. But they're very sweet 881 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,560 Speaker 1: and it's an absolutely beautiful postcard. So thank you to 882 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 1: both of those listeners and everyone who writes us. We 883 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,359 Speaker 1: appreciate it so much. If you would like to write 884 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,239 Speaker 1: to us, you can do so at History Podcast. At 885 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,480 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. You can also find us 886 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,600 Speaker 1: pretty much across the spread of social media as missed 887 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,160 Speaker 1: in History. UH. If you would like to learn a 888 00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,239 Speaker 1: little bit about anything that is on your mind at 889 00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:49,719 Speaker 1: the moment, you can go to our parents site, how 890 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,040 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Search for that thing that's on 891 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,600 Speaker 1: your mind in the text bar, and a ton of 892 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,840 Speaker 1: content will churn right up for you to explore and 893 00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:01,320 Speaker 1: get lost in, much like I got lost in the Cakebook. UH. 894 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,440 Speaker 1: If you would like to come and visit us, you 895 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,200 Speaker 1: can do that at mist in history dot com, where 896 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,719 Speaker 1: Tracy and I have put all of the episodes of 897 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,640 Speaker 1: this show from way back before we were on it 898 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 1: up to the present day, as well as show notes 899 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 1: from the times that Tracy and I have been hosting, 900 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,640 Speaker 1: and occasional other goodies. So we encourage you visit us 901 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: at Misston history dot com and how stuff works dot com. 902 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,520 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 903 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:43,800 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com.