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Speaker 1: Finish your year with the fish Stripes podcast, and start

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Speaker 1: your year with the fish Stripes Podcast. That is the

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Speaker 1: programming plan that we have for all of you Miami

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Speaker 1: Marlins fans. I'm Eli Susman, the managing editor of fish Stripes,

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Speaker 1: here to te up what was our final live stream

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one fish Stripes Live. The idea came

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Speaker 1: to me shortly before opening day nine months ago. It

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Speaker 1: took a couple months for us to get our footing,

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Speaker 1: to get the right routine, to get a cast of

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Speaker 1: characters to join us regularly and as special guests as well.

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Speaker 1: When the dust has settled here on December thirty first,

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Speaker 1: the final day of this calendar year, I'm immensely pleased

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Speaker 1: with the way that the show has grown, the kind

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Speaker 1: of best practices we have formed, the engagement that we've

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Speaker 1: gotten from many of you guys as well. These shows

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Speaker 1: are all live streams on our fish Stripes YouTube, Twitter

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Speaker 1: and Twitch accounts. Please subscribe and follow us on those

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Speaker 1: platforms as well. That's how you get the full experience

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Speaker 1: of the live streams, as if you actually watch it

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Speaker 1: and you see some of the production elements that I

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Speaker 1: put in there myself, I'm the one that produces these shows.

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Speaker 1: I appear on many of these shows. In this particular one,

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Speaker 1: I didn't say a whole lot, just because we were

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Speaker 1: running way over time. As most of our shows are

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Speaker 1: centered around the Marlins, almost one hundred percent Marlins and

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Speaker 1: Marlins related talk, this was an exception. This was all

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Speaker 1: about the Hall of Fame, particularly all the players on

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Speaker 1: the upcoming Hall of Fame ballot for the Class of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and the reason why this worked out

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Speaker 1: the way it did. December thirty first every year is

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Speaker 1: the deadline that real life voters from the Baseball Writers'

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Speaker 1: Association of America have to turn in their ballots to Cooperstown.

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Speaker 1: Some voters take it all the way down to the

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Speaker 1: wire to reveal who they're going to vote to, to

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Speaker 1: decide on who they're going to vote to. For us,

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Speaker 1: we have plenty of people on the Fish Stripe's staff

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Speaker 1: and immediate family that are passionate about this subject, but

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Speaker 1: I can't say I know anybody that's quite as intimately

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Speaker 1: familiar with it and passionate about it and knowledgeable about

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Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. Then Fish Stripe's alum Ethan Podowski.

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Speaker 1: Ethan was riding with me on the live streams from

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Speaker 1: the very beginning. He I mean, he's almost as responsible

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Speaker 1: for the success of the shows as I am. He

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Speaker 1: just took this very raw idea and he shaped it

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Speaker 1: in fantastic ways and showed so much enthusiasm for it,

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Speaker 1: and we just thought it was so fitting to have

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Speaker 1: him make his return to the live stream. This was

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Speaker 1: right around three months since the final time he appeared

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Speaker 1: on as part of the Fish Stripe staff, and now

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Speaker 1: as a distinguished guest as part of Just Baseball that

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Speaker 1: publication and as the host of Big Hall Talk. The

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Speaker 1: first season of Big Hall Talk was provided on this

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Speaker 1: podcast feed you may remember, but he's gone independent with

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Speaker 1: that show and done a sensational job of articulating everything

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Speaker 1: that goes into these Hall of Fame decisions and of

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Speaker 1: course expressing his own individual views about what qualify as

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Speaker 1: a player to go in. So this show was the

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Speaker 1: longest we've done on the live stream all year long.

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Speaker 1: Even though this one, this version of it is lightly edited,

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Speaker 1: thankfully for you guys, termed out some of the stuff.

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Speaker 1: We're planning to get in even more stuff and try

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Speaker 1: to steer it more towards the Marlins, but there was

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Speaker 1: just so much to say about some many of these

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Speaker 1: individual great players, who I'm sure you guys are familiar

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Speaker 1: with from playing against the Marlins. A few of them

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Speaker 1: played for the Marlins as well, so we had a

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Speaker 1: whole lot to discuss with a six man crew on

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Speaker 1: this one. Ethan was our distinguished guest, Kevin Barrall was

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Speaker 1: our quote unquote host, Isaac Kazooit, Alex Carver, Daniel Rodriguez,

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Speaker 1: and yours truly was on it as well. And this

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Speaker 1: was just such a fitting time to have Ethan make

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Speaker 1: his return because of how instrumental he was to the

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Speaker 1: growth of the show and how I use this show

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Speaker 1: as a dry run for our sponsorship with Loop spelled Loupe.

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Speaker 1: Loop is putting their faith in Fists Stripes as a

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Speaker 1: vehicle to spread their word about their sportscard business that

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Speaker 1: would not have to come together unless we had this

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Speaker 1: large and loyal audience to the streams. That wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: been there without Ethan's efforts. So I am so immensely

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Speaker 1: appreciative of his time with Fist Stripes and I'm glad

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Speaker 1: that we remain friendly as he continues to rise in

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Speaker 1: this industry, and once again I recommend that for people

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Speaker 1: that are fiercely interested in the Hall of Fame, no

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Speaker 1: better place to go than to Big Hall Talk. So

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Speaker 1: search for that wherever you're listening to this podcast and

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Speaker 1: subscribe to it over there. We hope you stick around

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Speaker 1: for upcoming streams again once a week every Wednesday night,

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Speaker 1: and on this same feed to bring you into the

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Speaker 1: new year, twenty twenty two, dropping on Saturday morning, will

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Speaker 1: have a new episode of Fish Stripes Unfiltered. So that

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Speaker 1: was the promise I made just a few moments ago

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Speaker 1: about how we want you to end twenty twenty one

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Speaker 1: and start twenty twenty two right here on Fish Stripes Enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Already Stripes Live Hall of Fame addition, back with the

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Speaker 2: usual suspects, Isaac zoot Eli Sussman, Daniel Rodriguez, and Alex Carver.

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Speaker 3: Noak could not join us today, but we have a

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Speaker 3: very familiar face, Ethan Padowski, former Fish Stripes member Fish

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Speaker 3: Strips Alum. He is now just Baseball Media and he

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Speaker 3: is doing his own podcast in Big Hall of Talk. Ethan,

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Speaker 3: welcome back. How are you.

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Speaker 4: Man, I'm great. I'm out here still in San Francisco,

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Speaker 4: can't quite get away yet. Uh. First of all, I'm

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Speaker 4: very impressed that I come back and we've got a

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Speaker 4: full on ad that is that is wonderful. We're making

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Speaker 4: making a big time here on Fish Stripes Live.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 4: Disappointed that I didn't get a little feature with a

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Speaker 4: little video of me from back of my day. But

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Speaker 4: it's good to be back. I missed you guys. I'm

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Speaker 4: proud of what you guys have been doing, growing the

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Speaker 4: show and keeping the show alive during the off season

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Speaker 4: and looking forward today and looking forward to my eventual

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Speaker 4: debut on Marlon Jeopardy. I'm very excited about that. So

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Speaker 4: it's going to be back.

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Speaker 3: We do have a lot to talk about. A lot

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Speaker 3: because it's Hall of Fame. There's so many guys we're

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Speaker 3: going to get into, and I think the best way

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Speaker 3: to start is let's get on the guys with the

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Speaker 3: final year on the ballot. And you know where I'm

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Speaker 3: going to go with this, Barry Bonds. I'm gonna start

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Speaker 3: here with Ethan Man. Why is Barry Bonds a Hall

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Speaker 3: of Famer?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean it's pretty simple when you really break

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Speaker 4: it down, and he's the great you know, he's the

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Speaker 4: greatest baseball player of all time. And there's just something

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Speaker 4: to be said for the fact that it's not a

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Speaker 4: Hall of Fame unless you have the greatest players ever, right,

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Speaker 4: And you know, we talk about I talked about this

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Speaker 4: on the podcast, where at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: it's a museum to the game, and it's a museum

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Speaker 4: that's supposed to tell the story of the game. And

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Speaker 4: you can't tell the story of the game, especially from

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Speaker 4: about nineteen eighty eight, eighty nine whenever Bond started playing

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Speaker 4: until two thousand and seven without talking about Barry Bonds

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Speaker 4: and his greatness. There are so many things during that

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Speaker 4: era that Bonds was involved in, whether it was just

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Speaker 4: the four you know, the four MVPs before all the

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Speaker 4: steroid allegations, the home run races, you know, two thousand

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Speaker 4: and one when he hit seventy three. It's just, you know,

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Speaker 4: if you can't have the greatest player ever, and you

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Speaker 4: can't have the greatest pitcher ever, not in the Hall

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Speaker 4: of Fame and call it, you know, try and push

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Speaker 4: this idea that it's a it's a.

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Speaker 6: Museum to the game.

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Speaker 4: So at the end of the day, I don't think

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Speaker 4: it's gonna happen, and it's going to be a shame.

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Speaker 4: And I hope it happens eventually, maybe on the veterans

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Speaker 4: ballot or something like that down the road where they

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Speaker 4: let these guys in, But it's not gonna happen now.

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Speaker 4: I don't think he's gonna need a real momentum or

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Speaker 4: a revolution on the side on the private ballot basically

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Speaker 4: to get in. But yeah, there's I mean, you know,

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Speaker 4: what else can you really say about Barry Bonds. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you know, I have my own segment on the podcast

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Speaker 4: where I just throw out ridiculous Barry Bond stats at

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Speaker 4: people and all of them. You know, you can't rule

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Speaker 4: any of them out because of how good he was.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, you know, him and Clemens should be no brainers.

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Speaker 4: They should have been in ten years ago. But it

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Speaker 4: is what it is, and we are where we are, Isaac.

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Speaker 3: We all know that Barry Bonds has had his his

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Speaker 3: past with steroids. He's actually never tested positive if I'm correct,

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Speaker 3: for steroids. Does that matter to you when it comes

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Speaker 3: to you choosing if Bonds as a Hall of Famer

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Speaker 3: or not.

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Speaker 7: Well, no, it was sort of really a question right

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Speaker 7: back at Ethan, And you know, let's say Barry Bond.

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Speaker 7: Obviously he is one other I don't know the best

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Speaker 7: because I think you know, big ruth that I was

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Speaker 7: going to say about that, But Verry Bonds is holy

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Speaker 7: one hundred and sixty two war. That's ridiculous. The fact

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Speaker 7: that he's not in the Hall of Fame is preposterous

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Speaker 7: to me. But I guess if he had, let's say,

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Speaker 7: been tested positive twice, like you were talking about pre stream,

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Speaker 7: does that change your vote?

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Speaker 8: You know?

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Speaker 4: This is this is a great question because there has

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Speaker 4: to be certain thresholds where a guy was good enough

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Speaker 4: right to kind of like get through weather through the storm.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 4: So like Alex Rodriguez is a guy that's in his

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Speaker 4: first year on the ballot this year, and he was

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Speaker 4: so good, like he's in one hundred and thirteen or

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Speaker 4: something like that F four player, right, and you're looking

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Speaker 4: at it and you're like, well, you know, with Manny,

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Speaker 4: Manny was kind of I think he would be in normally,

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Speaker 4: But it's more borderline than like say a Rod, whereas

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Speaker 4: a Rod without the still right allegations is a clear

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Speaker 4: first ballot Hall of Famer, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: So it's tough in that regard.

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Speaker 6: But yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I just think, like he's so

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Speaker 4: good and in the stats, in the numbers, and everything

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Speaker 4: is just so overwhelming at this point that it would

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Speaker 4: really be hard, even with a positive test or two,

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Speaker 4: to say all you have to do is look at

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Speaker 4: what he did before the steroids, and he already had

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Speaker 4: a Hall of Fame career before that.

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Speaker 6: And I see Alex Carver taking everything.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's every every he checked every box before.

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Speaker 4: He had two Hall of Fame careers basically, right, it's

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Speaker 4: like Tom Brady, like what Tom Brady did, Like if

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Speaker 4: Tom Brady came out all of a sudden and he

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Speaker 4: was doping the entire time, Like, nobody's gonna say Tom

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Speaker 4: Brady shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame because he

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Speaker 4: had two Hall of Fame careers in his career, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean. And bombs did the same thing,

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Speaker 4: and there was one before the steroids, and there was

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Speaker 4: one after the alleged steroids, and you know, it makes

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Speaker 4: it overwhelming in a sense.

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Speaker 7: I would say, Well, I mean, if this was updated,

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Speaker 7: you know recently, apparently it was today eighty point six percent,

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Speaker 7: it looks like he's on track to be elected this year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

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Speaker 4: You have to kind of take this with a grain

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Speaker 4: of salt. The public ballot, because the public ballot is

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Speaker 4: always going to be the younger voting demographic.

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Speaker 6: They're the ones that are more you know, with social media.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's gonna be a lot of first time voters,

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Speaker 4: and the first time voters are the people that think

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Speaker 4: more like me about the ballot and everything. And so

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Speaker 4: Bonds is gonna do really well. I'd like, I don't

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Speaker 4: know if he was sitting over seventy five percent last

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Speaker 4: year before the release of the private ballot, he hasn't

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Speaker 4: really netted a lot of the ballots. What you want

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Speaker 4: to be looking at is the net votes that they're gaining,

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Speaker 4: because they're gonna have to gain a certain amount, right,

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Speaker 4: and the private ballot is just going to just going

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Speaker 4: to destroy Bonds clemens A, Rod, Andrew Jones, Gary, some

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Speaker 4: of these guys that like the younger balloting, likes the analytics,

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Speaker 4: like you know, with issues like all those guys are

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Speaker 4: gonna be done hard in by the private ballot. And

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Speaker 4: then guys like you know, Shilling and Bescale and some

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Speaker 4: of the other guys with other problems might do pretty

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Speaker 4: well on the private ballot, but I mean a rod

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Speaker 4: like sitting at forty six point nine, there is there's

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Speaker 4: no chance he comes anywhere close to that. They might

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Speaker 4: get twenty percent of the vote, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: So you know, Kent might do pretty well on the

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Speaker 4: private ballot, but Clements and Bonds, I just don't think

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Speaker 4: they're on a good enough pace, like they would have

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Speaker 4: to be pacing really really high on the on the

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Speaker 4: public ballot to avoid what's gonna, you know, overcome what's

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Speaker 4: going to happen to them on the private.

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Speaker 3: That's a shame.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for those of you that care about the

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Speaker 1: math behind this, I think at this moment there are

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Speaker 1: ninety eight ballots in this tracker that's being held by

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Speaker 1: Ryan Thibodeaux. He's the guy that's been tracking this stuff

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Speaker 1: for about seven eight years now, and they're expected to

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Speaker 1: be more than four hundred guys that guys and women

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Speaker 1: that cast ballots for the Baseball Writers Association of America.

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Speaker 1: So we know less than a quarter of the vote

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Speaker 1: so far. But this far in, I mean, even though

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Speaker 1: that doesn't sound like a lot, usually the rest of

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Speaker 1: the group beyond that doesn't deviate that much except for

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Speaker 1: really lower the percentagies like at this point pretty much

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Speaker 1: across the board every single year.

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Speaker 4: That yeah, because a lot of the guys that vote

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Speaker 4: small hall kind of you know, I differentiate between big

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Speaker 4: hall and small hall. A lot of the small hall

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Speaker 4: guys are going to vote for private ballots. So those

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Speaker 4: are people that think, like, he shouldn't vote for more

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Speaker 4: than three people a year. Somewhere in there, somebody is

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Speaker 4: going to have an Omarvis scale only ballot, you know

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Speaker 4: what I mean, Like like nowadays, there's some crazy ballots

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Speaker 4: in there where like last year, Tory Hunter was like

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Speaker 4: saved by the private ballot. He was not pacing above

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Speaker 4: five percent and then got saved because the private ballot

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Speaker 4: came out and apparently everybody loved Tory Hunter and Tim

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Speaker 4: Hudson on that and they were saved by those ballots.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, it's an interesting you really see the difference

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Speaker 4: in ideologies between the public and private vote, and you

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Speaker 4: can kind of figure out what's going on there in

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Speaker 4: terms of the younger demographic and the older demographic that votes,

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Speaker 4: and then you do have a lot of you know,

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Speaker 4: the older demographic, like Tim Kirk shit is public with

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Speaker 4: his ballot. John Hayman, you know guys that have become

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Speaker 4: more involved in social media and stuff like that. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: there is a big, big difference between people that vote

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Speaker 4: privately and people.

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Speaker 6: That vote publicly.

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Speaker 4: And it's pretty split about half and half in terms

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Speaker 4: of there'll be like two hundred public ballots and then

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Speaker 4: like two hundred private.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just want to get into the stats

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Speaker 3: of Barry Bonds. I think I mentioned everything, but he

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Speaker 3: did have the one sixty two point seven war. This

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Speaker 3: is his career stats. I think it's the highest score

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Speaker 3: out of all these guys. He had two nine hundred

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Speaker 3: thirty five hits, seven hundred sixty two home runs, two

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Speaker 3: ninety eight batting average, four hundred and forty four OBP,

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Speaker 3: six h seven slugging and a one dot zero five

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Speaker 3: to one OPS in twenty two seasons of play. He

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Speaker 3: was a seven time MVP, fourteen time All Star, a

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Speaker 3: Home Run Derby champion, eight time Gold Glover, twelve times

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Speaker 3: Silver Slugger, two time batting title, and he was a

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Speaker 3: three time TSN Major League Player of the Year. And

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Speaker 3: this guy is.

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Speaker 4: At the Giants store at Oracle Park, which I did

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Speaker 4: the other day. They don't let you print Bonds jerseys

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Speaker 4: because he owns the rights to his name. So I

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Speaker 4: was asking about, you know, getting an old player, and

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Speaker 4: they would not let me print bonds. I didn't try

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Speaker 4: to print bonds, but they were like, are you going

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Speaker 4: to print bonds? And I was like no, and they're like, good,

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Speaker 4: you can't do that. So that's the kind of relationship

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Speaker 4: that MLB left with Barry Bonds, the way that they

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Speaker 4: burnt Bridges with him because of how he was treated.

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Speaker 3: That's why he's not on MB the show either.

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Speaker 4: On the show was never.

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Speaker 6: That has no.

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Speaker 4: I mean he still hangs out with the Giants and

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Speaker 4: obviously he was the Marlins hitting coach for a year

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Speaker 4: there and turn most Marcelo Zuna into a great player,

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Speaker 4: and he like, it's always at Giants games and stuff

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Speaker 4: with Willie Mays a lot. But yeah, it's it's very Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's it's ugly. It's ugly.

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Speaker 1: If I remember correctly, it's John O'Day out.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, he was a legend. He was a legend on

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Speaker 6: that game.

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Speaker 3: I think the same thing as a Toise frinend is

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Speaker 3: you can't proNT out his name in the mark and

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Speaker 3: at Marlins Park or sorry lone bo Park whis crazy

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Speaker 3: and just finishing off. He had seventy three home runs

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and one, So I think, if I'm correct,

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Speaker 3: the closest one to get to that was Stanton with

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Speaker 3: fifty nine or Roger Merris.

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Speaker 7: That was the record that Stan wanted to pass. He

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Speaker 7: was like, I want to stand publicly voice saying that's

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Speaker 7: the record, that's the record.

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Speaker 8: Just to reiterate before you move on, Kevin from from

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Speaker 8: Barry Bonds.

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Speaker 6: Ethan's exactly right.

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Speaker 8: The Hall of Fame is not the Hall of good guys.

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Speaker 8: If it was the Hall of good guys, Jeff Conan

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Speaker 8: will be in there. It's not it's the Hall of

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Speaker 8: it's it's the museum.

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Speaker 6: That tells the story of the game of baseball.

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Speaker 8: And the question that voters when they sit down with

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Speaker 8: their ballots that I can't fathom them doing this.

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Speaker 6: Can you tell the story of base especially.

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Speaker 8: During that time frame from like nineteen ninety eight through

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Speaker 8: I would say, like two thousand and six, right without

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Speaker 8: Barry Lamar Bonds. And the answer is unequivocally no. Like

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Speaker 8: I told you guys before, and some of you guys

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Speaker 8: are too young to know this.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 8: Eli remembers this, Ethan, You probably do as well that

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Speaker 8: during those time frames they were cutting in in two

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Speaker 8: thousand and one, when that home run race was going on,

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Speaker 8: they were cutting into in market action on Marlin's games

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Speaker 8: and games around the country, and it's all that was

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Speaker 8: on ESPN anytime Mark McGuire was hitting, anytime Sammy Sosi

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Speaker 8: was hitting, anytime Barry Bond was hitting. And it again

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Speaker 8: happened when when Barry was going for seven to sixty two.

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Speaker 8: So again, I mean, this guy was fantastic before and

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Speaker 8: after steroids.

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Speaker 6: Ethan mentioned this as well.

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Speaker 8: You can look at the numbers like before he before

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Speaker 8: his first accused case, which was in nineteen ninety eight, right,

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Speaker 8: if you go from nineteen eighty six through nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 8: the numbers are this too, eighty eight, four oh eight,

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Speaker 8: five point fifty one with three hundred and seventy four

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Speaker 8: home runs. He was already that amazing patient hitter that

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Speaker 8: he was one point to eight walks the strikeouts ratio,

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Speaker 8: and he had four hundred and seventeen steals, So he

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Speaker 8: was already one of the best players in baseball. Of course,

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Speaker 8: steroids I'm sure helped him, but you know, and there's

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Speaker 8: a great video from Bob Gibson, and is the last

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Speaker 8: I'll say on him, is that for the entirety that

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Speaker 8: baseball has gone on from the basic conception of the

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Speaker 8: game up until present day. You can look at spitballs,

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Speaker 8: you can look at steroids, you can look at the

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Speaker 8: astros banging trash cans. Teams and players are looking to

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Speaker 8: gain an edge, and if there's an edge to be had,

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Speaker 8: players sometimes can't say no. Barry Bonds couldn't say no

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Speaker 8: to that, Gary Sheffield couldn't say no to that. Does

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Speaker 8: that tarnish their legacy? I think for a player like

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Speaker 8: Barry Bonds, who was great before that, a player like

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Speaker 8: Gary Sheffield who was great before that, they didn't need it.

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Speaker 8: They did it because they made a bad choice. But

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Speaker 8: that one bad choice does not ruin an entire career, okay,

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Speaker 8: or those multiple bad choices repeat defenders are worse. Yes,

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Speaker 8: But as you guys said, Barry Bonds never actually tested positive.

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Speaker 8: You know he was in trouble for it a couple

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Speaker 8: of different times, and misseral report was huge on him.

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Speaker 8: But man, you can't look at that one decision and

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Speaker 8: say that this player, for all that he was and

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Speaker 8: all that he gave to the game and gave to fans,

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Speaker 8: specifically in San Francisco.

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Speaker 6: I don't think you can have without very Bonds.

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Speaker 4: And he did it because he had to keep They

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Speaker 4: they did it because they had to keep up as well,

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Speaker 4: you know, like the like they had to keep up

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Speaker 4: with sosin Maguire. Like he made the conscious choice of

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Speaker 4: I don't want these guys taking all my MVPs, you know,

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Speaker 4: and and he, you know, right or wrong, like Griffy

399
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Speaker 4: made the decision, I'm not going to do it, and

400
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Speaker 4: Bonds made the decision I'm going to do it. And

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Speaker 4: that's why people love Griffy and that's why people don't

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Speaker 4: like Bonds, right, But at the end of the day,

403
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Speaker 4: you know, Bonds had to keep up and it was

404
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Speaker 4: just kind of what everybody was doing. And it's maybe

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Speaker 4: it's not the best excuse, but it's true that it's

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Speaker 4: just how it was back then and it has to

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Speaker 4: be there, you know, you can't just try and erase

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Speaker 4: it from memory, like there are steroid guys already in

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Speaker 4: the Hall of Fame exactly. It's the frustrating, frustrating thing

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Speaker 4: is the selectiveness. Like we all love Pudge on this

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Speaker 4: stream right, help.

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Speaker 6: I think it's.

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Speaker 8: Honestly, I think it's the publicity that Barry Bob's got.

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Speaker 1: It was.

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Speaker 8: This is the best player in baseball and he was cheating, right,

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Speaker 8: So I mean, of course it gets blown up because

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Speaker 8: of what happened in the media, and of course BBWA

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Speaker 8: who who votes for this, those were the people that

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Speaker 8: were writing about it, so it's first in their mind

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Speaker 8: like it was yesterday.

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Speaker 6: But you can't forget about what a great player this was.

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Speaker 8: And honestly, I don't know how a single voter can

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Speaker 8: sit down and not bubble in that man's name because

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Speaker 8: he deserves it. I mean, the steroids is what it is.

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Speaker 8: And like you said, there's guys that are in the already.

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Speaker 8: But man, unequivocally, you cannot have a story, a building

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Speaker 8: about the story of this game without having very Bonds.

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Speaker 6: You just cannot have it.

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Speaker 4: So everybody, like I said, everybody here loves Pudge, right,

430
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Speaker 4: he's in. He tested positive. I'm pretty sure Bonds never

431
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Speaker 4: tested positive. So the frustrating thing for me, and it's

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Speaker 4: why I to the podcast, It's why I became so

433
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Speaker 4: interested in this topic is the inconsistency in voting and

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Speaker 4: just how you know backwards it is where this guy

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Speaker 4: stays out, but this guy gets in because Pudge was

436
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Speaker 4: a nice guy and he was good to the media, right,

437
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 4: and the media didn't like Barry Bonds, and so Bonds

438
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 4: no way, but Pudge, we'll look past it, you know

439
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 4: what I mean. It's it's just a little ridiculous. So

440
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 4: it's frustrating, and you know, it's.

441
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 6: Person to talk about with this topic, right, I mean,

442
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 6: writers make it personal.

443
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 8: There are those same those probably the same people that

444
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 8: there was somebody that didn'tvotever Derek Jeter, probably because he

445
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 8: was an asphole to him in an interview. You know,

446
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,239
Speaker 8: like that's just how it is. And as long as

447
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 8: these guys have votes, you know, they're they're they're gonna

448
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 8: look at those personal issues that bothered them and they're

449
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 8: they're gonna let that control their vote.

450
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 6: And I think that's a mistake. Very Bond has to

451
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 6: be in the.

452
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame.

453
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 8: A lot of these other story guys have to be

454
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 8: in the Hall of Fame. There's already steroid guys in there.

455
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 3: Give a chill. Moving on to the next guy who

456
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 3: definitely needs to be in the Hall of Fame is

457
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 3: Roger Clemens, who as well as on the final year

458
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 3: of the ballot, this guy on. I think it's the

459
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 3: second highest war on the on the on the ballot,

460
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 3: he has a one thirty nine point two war His

461
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 3: final record as a as a player was three hundred

462
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 3: and fifty four wins and one hundred eighty four losses

463
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 3: three point one two ERA A four thousand, six hundred

464
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 3: seventy two strikeouts, one point one seventy three with He

465
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 3: had twenty four seasons under his belt. He was an

466
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 3: MVP seven times cy Young Winner, two time Triple Crown,

467
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 3: eleven time All Star, two time World Series Champions, seven

468
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 3: times ERA title. He was the All Star, MVPTSN Major

469
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: League Player of the Year. He was also part of

470
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 3: that steroid era. I'm gonna start with you, Daniel Rodriguez.

471
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 3: What can you tell me about Roger Clemens? What can

472
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 3: you tell the people Roger Clemens? And why should he

473
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 3: be in the Hall of Fame right now?

474
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,239
Speaker 5: I mean, when you look at Roger Clemmons, he's, you know,

475
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 5: easily one of the best players of all time. He's

476
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 5: essentially kind of like Barry Bonds, but for pitching. He's

477
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 5: also had a career where it's like, you know, he's

478
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 5: played in different eras in the eighties and nineties, Deservey

479
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 5: two thousands, and you can make a case for you know,

480
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 5: each of those decades. It is a Hall of Fame career.

481
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,479
Speaker 5: He has you know, an MVP seven times sign seven.

482
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 5: He has one for every day of the week, you know,

483
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 5: seven times eleven, All Star, two times Triple Crown. You know,

484
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 5: just like Barry Bonds, you can't tell the story of

485
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 5: baseball without Roger Clemons into sham traversy that he's not

486
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 5: in there. And yes, he does have his issues with

487
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 5: you know, steroids and every that did happen with him,

488
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 5: but again he's one of the best, you know, probably

489
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 5: the best picture of all time baseball, one of the

490
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 5: best players. He deserves to get in there. It should

491
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 5: have happened eight, nine, ten years ago. And I hope

492
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 5: he gets into this year because you know, he'll probably

493
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 5: get intough the veterans community knowing you know, the best

494
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 5: baseball writers and what Ethan said prior about the private.

495
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 7: Ballot, and it's a shame that it thought she took

496
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 7: this long, as you said, have been five six years ago.

497
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 7: I didn't realize how many wins. He had the threshold.

498
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 7: Usually you know it's three hundred wins, and you're in

499
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 7: this guy had three hundred fifty four wins.

500
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 3: It's ridiculous.

501
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 7: And the fact that you know, we're talking about him

502
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 7: and we're talking about Barry Bonds, that here they are

503
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 7: in the last year on the ballot, and the fact

504
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 7: that it's looking like like you know, Ethan described why

505
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 7: it's they might not get it and they're not gonna

506
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 7: have that seventy five percent threshold.

507
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 3: It's just it's crazy to me.

508
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 6: Here, here's the best thing about roder E Clemmons.

509
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,479
Speaker 8: And we talked about it with Barry Bonds about how

510
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 8: great they were before they did or before they were

511
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 8: suspected of doing steroids, right, and Roger clements is even

512
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 8: more ridiculous than what everything that I listed about very Bonds.

513
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 6: The man already had three thousand strikeouts before he was

514
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 6: linked to steroids.

515
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 8: Okay, so he already had two hundred wins two hundred

516
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 8: and thirteen actually before he was linked to steroids. He

517
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 8: already had multiple side effics before he was liked the steroids.

518
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 8: And because he tests positive or not test positive, but

519
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 8: I don't I think he actually did. But anyways, that

520
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 8: he was linked to steroids in nineteen eighty eight in

521
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 8: the Miasure report, that was just for use case, or

522
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 8: a suspected use case. I keep saying that in nineteenninety eight,

523
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 8: that was where he was first suspected. Before that, he

524
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 8: was already well on his way to a Hall of fame.

525
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 8: And like Ethan said, these guys got to keep up.

526
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 8: And it's especially true for pitchers. If you see home

527
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 8: runs going up into the seventies as he did, what

528
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 8: are you gonna do as a picture pitching in Famway Park.

529
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 8: You're gonna try to do something to keep up. As

530
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 8: great as he already was, he wanted to keep up.

531
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 8: He made the choice to do steroids. Bad choice. Absolutely agree.

532
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 8: He has other character issues. I will say early in

533
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 8: his career he was known for throwing at guys. I

534
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 8: think his hippie pitch stats early in his career hold

535
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 8: that to be true. He was also known as not

536
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 8: being great to club hands. He was always pissed off

537
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 8: if he had to carry his own baggage. So you know,

538
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 8: there is some character issues for Roger Clemens. He went

539
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 8: where the money went to. I think that's probably pretty true.

540
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 8: But other than that, man, can you have again come

541
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 8: down to the question, can you have the Hall of

542
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 8: Fame with our Barry Bonds? No? Can you have the

543
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 8: Hall of Fame without one of the best pitchers of

544
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 8: all time in one of the most hit or friendly

545
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 8: environments of all time for most of his career. Absolutely not.

546
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 8: Roger Clemens got to be there again. I mean, the

547
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 8: steroids are what they are, but guys had to keep up,

548
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 8: so Rod.

549
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure that the best season that Clemens ever

550
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 4: had was that nineteen eighty six season, right like nineteen

551
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 4: eighty six. That's how long that guy pitched, you know.

552
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 4: I remember him pitching with the Maroon Astros and the

553
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 4: Yankees against the Marlinson three, and that guy pitched in

554
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty six, and I'm pretty sure he won the

555
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 4: MVP that year. It's just an unbelievably long you know,

556
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 4: the longevity of his career is out is outrageous, hard

557
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 4: to believe. He pitched in three different decades or something

558
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 4: like that, and you know, just one of the one

559
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 4: of the yeah, easily one of the probably the greatest

560
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 4: pitcher of all time. When you look at war, I

561
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 4: think he's up there, it's like him or Nolan Ryan. Basically,

562
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 4: it's basically take your choice, you know, take a pick,

563
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 4: and I guess the argument though he wakouts is insane.

564
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 7: The argument would be, okay, littleevity of his career playing

565
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 7: in three different decades. Had he not done steroids, he wouldn't, right,

566
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 7: That's like the argument I'm saying he should show be

567
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 7: voted in.

568
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 3: But that's the argument.

569
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 7: He would not have come close to pitching that much

570
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 7: without the steroids.

571
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 5: But then in every you know, every decade he won

572
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 5: in his twenties and thirties and his forties.

573
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: It's not just that he pitched in all those decades,

574
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: like he may have been the best pitcher in each

575
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: of those decades. It may have been like the picture

576
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: of the eighties, the picture of the nineties, and the

577
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: picture of the two thousands, just because he had elite

578
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: seasons in each of those and even in the postseason too.

579
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: I mean that was both with the Yankees and someone

580
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: with the Red Sox and with Houston.

581
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 6: Like the other thing is sorry to cut you off.

582
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 8: The other thing is, especially with the Red Sox, he

583
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 8: did everything that he did that I mentioned in those

584
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 8: years before he was setected of doing steroids.

585
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 6: It's a pretty damn bad teams.

586
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 8: Back then, the Red Sox were horrible, and my dad

587
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 8: can tell you because he grew up as a Red

588
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 8: Sox man.

589
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 6: The Red Sox used to be the ghats of the league.

590
00:28:59,120 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 6: Used to be able to go to.

591
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 8: Red Sox game and said in the bleachers were seventy

592
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 8: five cents because they had nobody. So Roger Clemens kind

593
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 8: of came along and kind of, I would say, was

594
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 8: one of the one people responsible for really making that

595
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 8: organization into what it is today because he was that good.

596
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 8: When you were going to a Red Sox game in

597
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 8: the eighties eighty six, you were going there for for

598
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 8: Roger Clements. That's the reason to go. So yeah, again,

599
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 8: I mean a guy that did so much for a

600
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 8: bad team like that. Of course, he went on to winners,

601
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,239
Speaker 8: you know, the Yankees and other teams that he went

602
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 8: to later in his career. For the bulk of his

603
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 8: career he played for bad teams and was a great

604
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 8: player on very bad teams in most of those seasons.

605
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 8: So again, you have to you have to take all

606
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 8: of the stats that I told you into account when

607
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 8: you know that he's playing for not a good organization

608
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 8: at the time.

609
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 4: And I mean Jamie, like you said, Jamie Moyer pitched

610
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 4: until like twenty twelve or whatever, right, but he was getting,

611
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 4: you know, piss rocketed every game. Roger Clemens pitched until

612
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 4: the middle to mid two thousands, like Eli mentioned, and

613
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 4: was still dominant.

614
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 6: And it's just you know.

615
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 4: You can play twenty four years, twenty five years, whatever

616
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 4: it is and just kind of drag along towards the

617
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 4: end and and just kind of make your way through

618
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 4: and pick up your head from stuff.

619
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 6: But Clembs did the exact He did that, and he dominated.

620
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean, well had Jamie he have been dominant.

621
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 6: To say, again, it's a great question. He was working

622
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 6: with some different.

623
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: Stuff than Rocher.

624
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 6: Seventy.

625
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: He might right exactly shout out to Jean Carlow.

626
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 4: Five or something.

627
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, next guy who is on the final year.

628
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 3: We talked about him at the start, Sammy Sosa. This

629
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: guy is a weird case, I mean very weird. Uh

630
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 3: by many he's not in the Hall of Fame. He's

631
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 3: actually one of the low guys on there. He's at

632
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 3: twenty two right now. I think many say he was

633
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 3: heavily impacted by the steroids. But then he had that

634
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 3: two thousand and one year. I think that's what he's

635
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 3: mostly known by, at least me. Uh, he had to

636
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 3: competition with Mark McGuire, he didn't beat him, and now

637
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 3: it's two thousand and one, So it was was that

638
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 3: the year Barry Bond said seventy three and then it.

639
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: Was to nineteen ninety eight. Was that he was two

640
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: and one?

641
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 9: Yeah?

642
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, let's start off with Isaac Man. What are

643
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 3: your thoughts in Sam mis signed? Is he someone that.

644
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 7: Should be I thought that was a curious case because

645
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,239
Speaker 7: I was talking about this with Eli earlier privately, and

646
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 7: I wondered why he kept them off his ballot and

647
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 7: I kept them off my ballot as well. Looking at

648
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 7: the stats, and yeah, I did some research on the guy,

649
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 7: and you know, his numbers really did, you know, go

650
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 7: crazy post Royd's era, and he but he does have

651
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 7: the six hundred home runs, So I do think he's

652
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 7: someone that deserves to get in with the Veterans Committee

653
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 7: in the future.

654
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 3: I'm surprised, and I think.

655
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 7: I'd love to ask Eli's Ethan's opinion on this, but

656
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 7: I'm surprised at how low the percentages for a guy

657
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 7: like Soosi six hundred home runs, it's you know, and

658
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 7: he doesn't have less than two thousand, and he's got

659
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 7: twenty four hundred hits. So I just thought that that

660
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 7: was that was interesting. He has all the accolades as well.

661
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 7: Sammy Sosa does All Star our MVP twice. So that's

662
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 7: what I thought was peculiar about Sosa. To me, he's deserving.

663
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 7: But I guess you know, that vote my vote. You know,

664
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 7: let's say if I did have a vote, it wouldn't

665
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 7: make a difference for him anyway.

666
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 4: So Sosa is interesting because you would think Sammy Sosa,

667
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 4: you'd look at his numbers when you hear the name

668
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 4: Sammy Sosa, and you'd see like an eighty war and

669
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 4: one hundred and forty weighted runs crat A plus or

670
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 4: something like that. Right, if you look at his numbers

671
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 4: and he's at one hundred and twenty four way to

672
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 4: runs create a plus and sixty point one f four.

673
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 3: And you're looking at that and you're like.

674
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 4: That's already kind of a borderline case, right, And then

675
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 4: you look at the seven year peak and it was incredible.

676
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 4: You know, these years from like ninety eight to four

677
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,479
Speaker 4: or you know, really ninety two except that one year

678
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 4: in ninety seven where he was randomly bad to oh four.

679
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 4: You look at that and you're like, okay, that's a

680
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 4: pretty long you know, a lot alone deevity there. But

681
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 4: some of these years aren't great, I mean, and you

682
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 4: kind of look at it and you're like, wow, like

683
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 4: he was really his peak was really really influenced by steroids,

684
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 4: and put me wrong, he's a great you know, Sammy

685
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 4: Sosa is a great hitter, and he's got some really

686
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 4: good numbers on the stats page here, but you know,

687
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: I would be inclined to put him in kind of

688
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 4: I'm not really sure where I stand on so say,

689
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 4: obviously it's not gonna happen.

690
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, look at the number he's got

691
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 6: he's posting right now.

692
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 4: But with Sosa, it's just kind of he was already

693
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 4: borderline and then he was just hard done by the fact,

694
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 4: you know, the steroids and stuff, and.

695
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 6: But six hundred home runs.

696
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 4: You know, if you're in the six hundred home run club,

697
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 4: like you're doing pretty good, you know, and that's definitely

698
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 4: a kind of one of those thresholds where you say, Okay,

699
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 4: maybe you know that that's an automatic qualifier, but Sosa

700
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 4: is not going to get in, And it's a very

701
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 4: peculiar case because I'm not really sure he'd deserves it

702
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 4: based on how much the steroids kind of impacted who

703
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 4: he was.

704
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: As a player exactly.

705
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 8: And we talked about it with how good Bonds and

706
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 8: Clemens were before their first known use case or.

707
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 6: Suspected use case.

708
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 8: How good was Sammy Sosa before in the nineteen ninety

709
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 8: eight season. You guys want to hear that. The stats

710
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 8: on that mm HM two fifty seven, three h eight,

711
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 8: four sixty nine with two hundred and seven home runs,

712
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 8: So he's a six hundred plus home run hitter right right,

713
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 8: four hundred of those. While while he was doing steroids,

714
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 8: there's a reason he was also a terrible defender. He

715
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 8: has a negative career d world to put that into place,

716
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 8: ship he was also doing things like putting quirks into

717
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 8: his back to gain an edge, So you can't for

718
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 8: this particular player, it's not just a steroids. But like

719
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 8: Ethan said, how much they did for him. He was

720
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 8: not a good player. He was nowhere near a Hall

721
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 8: of Famer before he started doing steroids. And then steroids

722
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 8: just made him take off, along with the other thing

723
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 8: that I mentioned about putting qirks in your bat. And

724
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 8: for a lot of his career he played in very

725
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 8: small home parks right and Chicago in particular. So I

726
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 8: think the twenty two percent is probably generous. I would

727
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 8: say that that's going to go down because just because

728
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 8: of how much steroids did for this guy and how

729
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 8: much they made him into a completely different specimen than

730
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 8: what he really was.

731
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 6: So that's the reason he's not there. And I don't

732
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 6: have him on my ballot. I don't think he deserves it.

733
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 3: I wouldn't put him in, And yeah, that's why. That's

734
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: why I said his career was heavily impacted by the

735
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 3: steroids and going into the last guy, which very controversial,

736
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 3: but it's Kurt Shilling. Uh last time last year in

737
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 3: twenty twenty said he did no longer wanted to be

738
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 3: on the ballot. He said to some some things that

739
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 3: people take different ways. You could say that on the

740
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 3: field he was a great player. It's very hard to

741
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 3: talk to Kevin. I'm going to give you a break here.

742
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 3: It's very hard to talk about Kurt Shilling. It's I

743
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 3: find myself when when I'm on the podcast, dancing around

744
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 3: it because I don't really know how to approach because

745
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 3: it's so hard to talk about the guy. But basically,

746
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: when you talk about him this year, all you have

747
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 3: to say is, he asked you to take him off

748
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 3: your ballot, So.

749
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 6: Just do it, you know, just do it.

750
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 4: The guy doesn't want to honor and I don't really

751
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 4: want to give him the satisfaction of being like a

752
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 4: martyr in this instance. But I also don't really want

753
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 4: him speaking at the Hall of Fame and like going

754
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 4: up there and you know, spewing all his bullshit.

755
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 6: So he asks you to leave him off. Just do it.

756
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 4: You know, it's pretty easy this year, and he's gonna

757
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 4: I mean, he's he's his campaign has gone in the tank.

758
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 3: You know, he's netting.

759
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 4: I can't remember what his net is from last you know,

760
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 4: from last year, but it's it's negative in the twenties,

761
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 4: I think at this point, tens or twenties. So it's

762
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 4: really hard, Kevi, It's really hard. It's really you know,

763
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 4: you got to kind of dance around it. But yeah,

764
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 4: it's you know, very very very comfortable.

765
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 7: You know, taking away the stuff that you know, like

766
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 7: you're hinting at you with that stuff. He spoke very

767
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 7: ill about the media themselves, and those are the people

768
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 7: that are, you know, voting for you. And so the

769
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 7: fact that I've totally forgot about that he did say, hey,

770
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 7: don't vote for me. Forget him man, you know, like

771
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 7: I I did leave him. I did put him on

772
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 7: my ballot just because due the numbers are there. But wow,

773
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 7: I didn't realize, how, you know, horrific of a human

774
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 7: this guy is, especially post playing career. But unfortunately, yeah,

775
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 7: I didn't keep it in on my ballot.

776
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

777
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: Well, with Shilling, I think the word that I landed

778
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: on when thinking about this is what makes a candidate disqualifying,

779
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: What really disqualifies somebody from being honored for their baseball career.

780
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: So with Shilling, like, there's a long list of indiscretions.

781
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you could start with on baseball field, he

782
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: was just like a bad teammate. He as much as

783
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: we're learning about his like views and kind of dangerous

784
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: philosophy in post retirement, I mean, he held some of

785
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: these beliefs during his playing days as well. And there

786
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: are some teammates that he's had through the years with

787
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: different teams that attest to it is not a total

788
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 1: coincidence that he did bounce around to a handful of

789
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: different teams during his career, despite his greatness, despite his

790
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: especially his clutchness in the postseason, the type of things

791
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: that usually make somebody beloved and a leader in their clubhouse,

792
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: and he never was that. And then I'm just going

793
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: down the list of about like how the the sleazy

794
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: businesses that he's run and then just this later phase

795
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: about being a guy that's influencing people to like simply

796
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 1: creating conflict for the sake of conflict and just going

797
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: off the reservation in that regard. Yet I don't know

798
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: if I could like put my finger on anything that

799
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: is like totally like disqualifying for him to be in

800
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame for Is this stuff really enough

801
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: to totally deflect from what he accomplished as a baseball player.

802
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: Is there like a line that he crossed that wants

803
00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: you to keep him out? And so for a lot

804
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: of the voters, they point towards specific statements he's had

805
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: against journalists, like threatening the lives of journals or really

806
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: condoning people that threaten the lives with journalists. And that

807
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: them they themselves feel like directly implicated in that, And

808
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: so for somebody like that, they believe it's dangerous. But

809
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: again for men, I don't know if that's necessarily valid

810
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: points that they're making. I don't know if that. I've

811
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: seen other sentiment about how it would be dangerous to

812
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: let him speak, like to give him a podium and

813
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: allow him to say whatever he wanted, as if he

814
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: would like incite violence, I give an opportunity to actually

815
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: speak at a Hall of Fame ceremony. I don't know

816
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: if that's rational.

817
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 3: I don't know.

818
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: I can't think I can't really fathom that happening if

819
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: he actually gets what he deep down, what he's really

820
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: really wanted for now, fifteen years post retirement, that he

821
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: would use that platform for anything other than simply to

822
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: be reflective in the way that any other player was.

823
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: So for me, like, I understand the other perspectives of it,

824
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: but when I try to draw a line between what's

825
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: qualifying and what's not, like, I feel he's actually on

826
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: the right side of that, and that if you just

827
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: want to look at the merits of his career, if

828
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: you want to look at the fact that pictures of

829
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: his generation are really underrepresented in the Hall, like he

830
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: is on the shortlist the very best pictures of the

831
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: less quarter century, last thirty years that I would put

832
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: him in.

833
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 9: In my opinion, the worst thing you can do is

834
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 9: you can kind of I mean, you know, he can

835
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 9: put something like there's that big long clack where they

836
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 9: write a lot about the guys, you know what I mean?

837
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 4: And and look on the baseball merit, there's no doubt

838
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 4: about this guy, right, you.

839
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 3: Know, one of the greatest points, like.

840
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 4: Right, absolutely absolutely, you know, want to arguably the greatest

841
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 4: playoff picture of all time?

842
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 6: You know what does that say?

843
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 4: That has to mean something, right that you were the

844
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 4: greatest playoff picture of all time, like Madison bum just

845
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 4: gonna come up, you know, ten fifteen years down the

846
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 4: road whatever.

847
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 6: And what are people gonna do with the.

848
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 4: Fact that he was incredible in the playoffs and he has,

849
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 4: you know, arguably the greatest postseason that we've ever seen

850
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 4: in twenty fourteen. Shilling had great postseasons time and time again.

851
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 4: He has the iconic you know, bloody stock moment. You know,

852
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 4: who knows what was really going on down there, but

853
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 4: you know, an iconic moment in baseball history with the

854
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 4: bloody stock and you're looking at it and yeah, you know,

855
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 4: But again, I just think when he the way he

856
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 4: acted and the fit he threw when he said, you know,

857
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 4: when he was like take me off, I was like, Okay,

858
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 4: I see, I see where you stand, you know what

859
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 4: I mean? And Eli's right, he can say all he

860
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 4: wants that he doesn't want it anymore, and he's happy

861
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 4: he got left out and you know, be a champion

862
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 4: for a fake cause or whatever he wants to do.

863
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, this is what

864
00:41:58,360 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 4: he really wants is.

865
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 6: To be in the Hall of Fame.

866
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 4: He written, every player, manager, GM, announcer, whatever, this is

867
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 4: the pinnacle of what you can achieve in the sport

868
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 4: and he no doubt, no doubt, wants it one hundred percent.

869
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 3: Moving on to the first year guys, I think the

870
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 3: first out of the two players actually saw play in

871
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame or who won the ballot, Big

872
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 3: Poppy David Ortiz. This guy is maybe one of the

873
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 3: best Red Sox to play. He was also a Minnesota twin,

874
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 3: but mostly known for his Red Sox days. He had

875
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 3: a fifty five point three War twenty four hundred seventy

876
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: two hits, five hundred and forty one homers, twenty six,

877
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 3: batting average three three eighty OBP five fifty two slugging

878
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,240
Speaker 3: nine to thirty one ops, twenty seasons as a player,

879
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 3: ten All Stars, Home Run Derby Champ, three time World

880
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 3: Series Champ, seven times Silver Slugger, World Series MVP, and

881
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 3: an All Star MVP. Ethan, it's Big Poppy. He's in

882
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame and he's leading it right now.

883
00:42:58,760 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 3: So it looks like.

884
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 4: Here, So here's the thing, Kevin, Exactly. It's Big Poppy.

885
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 4: He needs to be in the Hall of Fame.

886
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 3: But he's also touch steroid.

887
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 4: Connections to Big Poppy.

888
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

889
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 6: This is this is what I'm getting.

890
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 4: At here, is that the narrative surrounding these guys like

891
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 4: Poppy is on a great pace eighty two point seven percent.

892
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 4: I think the private ballot's going private balot's gonna like

893
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 4: him because he's Big Poppy, you know what I mean.

894
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 4: So I think he's gonna get in like he needs

895
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 4: a little more help, I would say on the public

896
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 4: ballot before I like guarantee it basically, But that's the

897
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 4: whole point keV is that he's big poppy. He has

898
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 4: to get in. I'm not saying you're wrong, because you're

899
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 4: not wrong. He is big poppy and he does have

900
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 4: to get in, right, five.

901
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 3: Hundred and forty one homers.

902
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 4: You know, say what you will about DHS, but Edgar

903
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 4: Martinez just got in, So that really opens the door

904
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 4: for Big Poppy to get in. You know, miss he

905
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 4: was mister Red Sox for so that organization. You know

906
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 4: when they won three championships with him, right, and you know,

907
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 4: through over a decade, nearly and he had so many

908
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 4: iconic moments along the way. You know, the speech after

909
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 4: the Boston Marathon and this is our fucking city and

910
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 4: nobody got a dig day, I pray them exactly. It's

911
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 4: it's an iconic moment, you know, it's it's what everybody

912
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 4: thinks about.

913
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 6: With the twenty.

914
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 4: Thirteen run, Tory Hunter going over the wall in right

915
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 4: center field on that big Poppy Grand Slam in the

916
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 4: twenty thirteen ALCS. There are so many iconic moments with

917
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 4: this guy. But again it just feeds into the fact

918
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 4: that he has steroid links.

919
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 3: They're very weird.

920
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 4: And they're not like you know, you know, a reason

921
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 4: to really evaluate him on as a steroid guy, right,

922
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 4: but he does have links and so it's like, well,

923
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,959
Speaker 4: if Very test positive, I don't think Poppy ever tests

924
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 4: positive either, then why is it big Poppy has to

925
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 4: get in? He's big Poppy, But it's not very Bonds

926
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 4: has to get in. It's very Bonds, you.

927
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 3: Know what I mean.

928
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 4: So this is where the one where really inconsistencies showed through. Yea,

929
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 4: but said it's big You're one hundred percent right, Kevin,

930
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 4: that it's big Poppy. And you know, just like you

931
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 4: can't tell the story of Bonds's generation without Bonds. You

932
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 4: can't tell the story from about two thousand and four

933
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 4: when they won that first one to twenty thirteen to

934
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 4: fifteen without without talking about David Ortiz.

935
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, we talked about those postseason moments, you know, like

936
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 7: with that two thousand and four ALCS where you know,

937
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 7: down three oh, he gets to walk offs in Game four,

938
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 7: end in game five. You can't tell the story of

939
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 7: you know, this last couple of decades without David Ortiz.

940
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 3: And that's the problem.

941
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 7: You say, like he does have some weird steroid allegations,

942
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 7: you know, at same with Bonds. There's no criteria for

943
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 7: the Hall of Fame.

944
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 6: Technically, there's not.

945
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 7: Whether it's character that there's just you know, what writers

946
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 7: want to choose and that's it. So I think that's

947
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 7: where the problem is. People like the erocu is a

948
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 7: much more likable person. Apparently he had those moments like

949
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 7: the Boston Marathon moment. Barry Bonds was just known to

950
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,439
Speaker 7: be kind of a shitty teammate. So and I'm it's

951
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 7: so unfair, it's so inconsistent, And I'm glad you started

952
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 7: this big HALLI talk, because it really someone needs to

953
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 7: shine light on how inconsistent it is. Nonetheless, Baseball, I

954
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 7: think it is still the best Hall of Fame of

955
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 7: all major sports, but it needs to get more consistent

956
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 7: because having Clements and Bonds staring at their final year

957
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 7: on the ballot most likely not going to get in,

958
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 7: it's just it's crazy to me.

959
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, next guy is alex Ardriguez, one of the more

960
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 3: controversial guys. You could go a different ways here. I

961
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 3: don't like that probably number one. I would think as

962
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 3: controversial as Shilling and Clemens and Bonds are, I don't

963
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 3: think there's anybody more controversial than.

964
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 10: A Rod, because was he multiple time a two times

965
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 10: admitted admitted like lied and then admitted, and he was

966
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 10: already a Rod Like they already hated.

967
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 4: Him, you know what I mean, And he was already

968
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 4: like a jerk, and they just hate And he's done

969
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 4: so much image repair like a Rod has done so

970
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 4: much image repair in his post in the you know,

971
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 4: post career where he's on every freaking network now talk

972
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 4: to baseball.

973
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 6: But yeah, my god, is this a controversial.

974
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 3: And he definitely has the stats. That's the thing is

975
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 3: three thousand hit clubs now six hundred home run club

976
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 3: He's four away. He was four away from seven hundred.

977
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 3: That would have made his case even better. Two ninety

978
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 3: five batting average, three eighty OVP, five point fifty slugging

979
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,439
Speaker 3: nine thirty ops the guys. A three time MVP, four

980
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 3: team time All Star, two thousand and nine World Series winner,

981
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 3: two time Gold Glover, ten times Silver Slugger three uh

982
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 3: he won a batting title. He was a three time

983
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 3: TSN Major League Player of the Year. I don't think

984
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 3: he makes it this year, Ethan, but maybe in the

985
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 3: next couple of years. Definitely, he's definitely gonna make it.

986
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 3: He's not Kevin, you know.

987
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 7: It's a shame is that you guys can make the

988
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:02,720
Speaker 7: argument on a Rod for unanimous had not unanimous numbers.

989
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 3: Maybe he may slip in a lot, that's the thing.

990
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 3: And the vote unanimous a Rod would be unanimous.

991
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 4: And unfortunate Bonds, Clemens, Baseball may merit. They would all

992
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 4: be unanimous. But Kevin, I'm sorry, I'm sorry to shut

993
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 4: you down like I don't I don't want to. The

994
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 4: reason that I say this so emphatically that a Rod

995
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 4: is not getting in is because Bonds and Clements aren't

996
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 4: going to get in, and that's going to set the president.

997
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 4: And I know that the voting the voting demographic over

998
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 4: the next ten years is just going to keep getting younger,

999
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 4: so it could help a Rod. But there are gonna

1000
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 4: be a lot of people I can tell you right

1001
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 4: now that are going to be protective over their hall

1002
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 4: of fame, are going to clutch their pearls and they're

1003
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 4: gonna say, a Rod is not.

1004
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 6: Getting into my Hall of fame.

1005
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 4: And it's because of it's Alex Rodriguez, just in the

1006
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 4: same way that it's Barry Bonds, and people didn't like

1007
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 4: Barry Bonds. People did not like Alex Rodriguez, and he

1008
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 4: has two known instances of cheating of steroid usage. Daniel Alvarez, my,

1009
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 4: you know, we all love Daniel Alvarez. He's been very

1010
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 4: popular on Twitter today. Right, he's a loser today, but

1011
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 4: he's a.

1012
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 6: Winner and he's a loser today.

1013
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 4: But he was on Big Hall Talk a couple of

1014
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 4: weeks ago and I did a great episode with him.

1015
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 4: And he's going to have a ballot in ten years,

1016
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 4: so I think his first ballot will be a Rod's

1017
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 4: like ninth or tenth year. Right, He's still he's going

1018
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 4: to have the chance to vote for a Rod, and

1019
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 4: I don't think he's going to do it. But he

1020
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 4: did vote for bonds for Clemens, so that just goes

1021
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 4: to show that there are going to be people that

1022
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 4: will vote for bonds. They'll vote for Clemens, they'll vote

1023
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 4: for Poppy, they'll vote for Shilling, but they won't vote.

1024
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 3: For a Rod. And legitimizes everything. Man, it sucks.

1025
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 4: One hundred percent, Isaac. It's a huge problem with the

1026
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 4: voting process that this is the reality is that people

1027
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 4: vote for the guys they like, you know what I mean,

1028
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 4: It's just what they do, and it's it's frustrating, and

1029
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 4: it's why I have the podcast about it, because I

1030
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 4: like to call it out. And I hope that I'm

1031
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 4: lucky enough one day to be able to use my

1032
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,240
Speaker 4: vote and do what I can to help the guys

1033
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 4: that deserve it, because I care a lot about this process,

1034
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 4: and I hope that I haven't bad talked the VBWAA

1035
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 4: enough to not let them, not for them to not

1036
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 4: let me in and not give me a vote. But

1037
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 4: it would be an honor and a privilege. And people

1038
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 4: don't use it as a privilege. They take it as

1039
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 4: a right. And I don't think it's a right. I

1040
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 4: think it's a privilege, and I think more people should

1041
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 4: treat it like a privilege and use their ballot to

1042
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 4: vote for baseball merit and vote for the best baseball

1043
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 4: players in history to make a Hall of Fame.

1044
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 7: So even hypothetically ten year from now, you're let's say

1045
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 7: you're voting for the Hall of Fame and this is

1046
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 7: a Ros last year, do you vote for a Rod?

1047
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 6: Yes?

1048
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 4: Probably, And I'll tell you why.

1049
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:09,479
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1050
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 4: There there there has to be a threshold for how

1051
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 4: like like Eli talked about disqualification, there has to be

1052
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 4: a threshold for automatic qualification as well, you know what

1053
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 4: I mean, And like many Ramirez, very good hitter, Hall

1054
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 4: of Fame quality hitter player. Okay maybe, but very like close,

1055
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. It's kind of borderline. I

1056
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 4: would put him in, but a little it's it's just

1057
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 4: past the borderline, let's say. But two tests just for me,

1058
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 4: just qualifies a player like Manny, just qualifies a player

1059
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 4: like Robinson, like when Robinson Cano's on the ballot, and

1060
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 4: it would have happened before because second base has to

1061
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 4: be judged a little differently, you know what I mean.

1062
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 4: But a rod is just so good. There's just no

1063
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 4: doubt about the hunt us. It's one hundred thirteen war

1064
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 4: you said, Kevr like something like that.

1065
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 7: I think anytime we have six hundred and three thousand, you're.

1066
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,959
Speaker 4: Should be an automatic qualifier. I mean, Barry Bonds doesn't

1067
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 4: have three thousand hits, and he would have gotten three

1068
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 4: thousand hits if he was, you know, if he had

1069
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 4: not been blackballed from the league. But you know, Ayron

1070
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 4: has three thousand and six hundred. Yeah, that's how I

1071
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 4: see you itching to get in here. So I want

1072
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 4: to hear what you Yes, no.

1073
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,399
Speaker 8: I just I guess I just want to play maybe

1074
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 8: Devil's Vacate, but not really because I kind of disagree

1075
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 8: with what you guys are saying, and I disagree for

1076
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 8: this reason and I've said it this whole show, and

1077
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 8: I'll say it again.

1078
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,240
Speaker 6: But I think when you're looking at steroid guys, they can't.

1079
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 8: Just be Okay, you did steroids, you but you were great,

1080
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 8: so you're getting in, or you did steroids, so you're

1081
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 8: not getting in, right.

1082
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 6: I don't think it.

1083
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 8: Should be either one of those cases. I think it

1084
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 8: should be looked at. It about how much the steroids

1085
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 8: did for you, And you can make the argument that

1086
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 8: Alex Rodriguez was probably using steroids for his entire career, right,

1087
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 8: So we don't know what kind of player that Alex

1088
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 8: Rodriguez would have been if he wasn't on steroids, because

1089
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 8: he was likely on steroids for most of his career,

1090
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 8: and that's obvious in the fact that he tested positive twice.

1091
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 6: And admitted to it.

1092
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 8: So again, you have to look at what exactly doping

1093
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 8: did for a player, and I think.

1094
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 6: It did a lot for Alex Rodriguez.

1095
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 8: I would have loved to see what kind of player

1096
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 8: Alex Rodriguez was if he wasn't on steroids, I don't

1097
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 8: think we ever really saw it.

1098
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 6: So based on the.

1099
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 8: Fact that there's very little evidence as to the kind

1100
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,399
Speaker 8: of player that he probably was naturally, I don't think

1101
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 8: you can put him in the Hall of Fame.

1102
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 6: And you definitely can't put him in first ballot.

1103
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 8: That he cannot be a distinction.

1104
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 4: You know, I don't make distinctions between like fourth ballot

1105
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 4: and tenth ballot, right, Like.

1106
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 6: There's no difference to me.

1107
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 4: If you would vote for a guy in the fourth year,

1108
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 4: you would vote for him in the tent tier. So

1109
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 4: just vote for him, right But first ballot is a

1110
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 4: distinction that matter. That means something to me. And I

1111
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 4: can understand you're.

1112
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 6: Talking about putting next to Jeter, putting next to Ken Griffie.

1113
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 6: You know you can't. You can't. You cannot do that.

1114
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 4: Like that cannot happen, And so I just think that

1115
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 4: there has to there there could be a distinction between

1116
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 4: first ballot guys and and the rest. And so personally,

1117
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 4: if you vote for a Rod great, if you don't

1118
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 4: vote for a Rod great, I really have no problem

1119
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 4: with either. Because of the two. You know, it's it's twice,

1120
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 4: and and and Alex makes a fair argument with with that,

1121
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, I think that's not something

1122
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 4: I really ever considered, but it's totally fair. And again

1123
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 4: I can see I'll accept either argument with a rod.

1124
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 4: This one is much less egregious to me than bonds

1125
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 4: or clements, for sure.

1126
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 7: I mean, he was just such a skinny kid, and

1127
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 7: when he was the Mariners, I was sure that he

1128
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 7: was on it his entire career out of you know,

1129
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 7: I didn't.

1130
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 3: I'm ignorant to this.

1131
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 4: As very interesting. We don't really know.

1132
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 7: We don't know when he's not going to go out

1133
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 7: and tell he's not going to go out and tell us,

1134
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 7: because you know, no matter what he says, whether it's like,

1135
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 7: oh I started year seven or I started year one,

1136
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 7: it's not gonna go well for him.

1137
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 4: Shoot himself in the foot.

1138
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 7: And that's the thing, Like there are some worst case

1139
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 7: like you're he lied, like you know, he did test

1140
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,800
Speaker 7: positive twice. I don't think it was the worst case obviously,

1141
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 7: I don't think this player is a Hall of Famer.

1142
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,399
Speaker 7: But Ryan Brown's problem that was like the worst one.

1143
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 7: He lied directly to the camera multiple times about saying

1144
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,439
Speaker 7: I would never put it like and then he tested

1145
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 7: positive what was it?

1146
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 3: Twice? As well? That was the.

1147
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 4: Why do you think I hate? Why do you think

1148
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 4: I hate Ryan Brons?

1149
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 3: Ryan Brown was the worst case? And like what.

1150
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 8: And that's the last thing I'll say, because I know

1151
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 8: you gotta go on, Kevin. The last thing I'll say

1152
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 8: is you kind of have to expect the worst. I mean,

1153
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 8: it's it's a multiple time offender.

1154
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 3: Right.

1155
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 6: He came into the league and started really playing full

1156
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 6: time at the height of the steroid era. So if

1157
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 6: you're this scrawny little kid, as you said, Isaac, and

1158
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 6: this is staring you in the face, right.

1159
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 3: What are you gonna do?

1160
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 8: I would, right, And you see McGuire, you see your

1161
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 8: heroes doing it. You see McGuire doing it, you see

1162
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 8: Bond's doing it, doing it? Are you gonna do it?

1163
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 3: Probably?

1164
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 6: So I don't have evidence of that. I with a Rod. Personally,

1165
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 6: for me, I expect the worst.

1166
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 8: And I say that he was likely using steroids for

1167
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 8: most of his career and it made him the player

1168
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,879
Speaker 8: that he was, which is why I personally leave him off.

1169
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 3: All Right, We're gonna get through these next guys quickly.

1170
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 3: There's Carl Crawford. Then there's Prince Fielder, who who his

1171
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 3: career got cut short because of injuries. I think one

1172
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 3: of the sadder stories. He definitely could have been a

1173
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 3: guy to talk about in the future. Ryan Howard pretty

1174
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 3: much the same thing, career got cut short. Then there's

1175
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 3: Tim Linda Come and I'm gonna let Daniel take this

1176
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 3: one over because I know he wants to make his

1177
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 3: Tim lindsecum rant why he should be in the Hall

1178
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:41,959
Speaker 3: of Fames again.

1179
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 4: I just say something really quickly.

1180
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:44,240
Speaker 1: The freak.

1181
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 4: You know how I mentioned how I was at the

1182
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 4: Giants store. Yeah, the jersey that I got is Tim linccam.

1183
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 3: Let's go. That's the one I got.

1184
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 4: And it is now the fro the crown jewel of mine.

1185
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 4: This was like a Tim linccam jersey. It is now

1186
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,800
Speaker 4: the crown jewel of my collection because I've got a

1187
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 4: big jersey collection and Jim litzm is now the crown jewel.

1188
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 3: So Daniel talk to me about my boy.

1189
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 5: I'm bigger on Tim Litzikon because he's easily probably one

1190
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 5: of my favorite players of all time. You know, for me,

1191
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 5: my favorite pitcher is easily to go Holise one and

1192
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 5: then Tim linzgon number two. But this guy did, even

1193
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 5: though it was a short amount of time that his

1194
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 5: peak was. It was literally a peak that hasn't been

1195
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 5: seen before. When you look at maybe a guy kind

1196
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 5: of like a Sandy Colfax, and you know, I'm looking

1197
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 5: right here. You look at it, it's guys with two

1198
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 5: Cy youngs, three World Series titles. You know, it's Sandy Kolfax,

1199
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 5: Jim Palmer, and then Tim Litzim that that kind of

1200
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 5: just says it all. And then it says most seasons,

1201
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 5: you know, with two hundred and twenty five Inx pits,

1202
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 5: you know, one hundred and sixty era plus, it's Randy

1203
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 5: Johnson and then Tim lindzicon Johnson did it five times,

1204
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 5: Tim Lino did it twice, and you know he had

1205
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 5: a short peak. It's around four or five years. But

1206
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 5: in that time, four time All Star, you two time

1207
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 5: Cell Young Award winner, you know his war really you know,

1208
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 5: you see it's not really there. But also talk about postseason,

1209
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 5: and he really dominated also in that postseason. When you

1210
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 5: look at it, you know he had especially that twenty

1211
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 5: twelve ten, two thousand ten is really when he dominated, really,

1212
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 5: you know, especially in the NLCS and ds I, but

1213
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 5: personally am a big believer in Tim Mintica. I don't

1214
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 5: think he'll get the votes, just predominantly on just how

1215
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 5: much he played and what his peak was, and just

1216
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 5: you know, he see his time on the Angels, his

1217
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 5: like twenty fifteen season, twenty fourteen season. When you look

1218
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 5: at that, it's not really the best in terms of

1219
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 5: this numbers. But I personally think Tim Minsigan's a Hall

1220
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 5: of Famer just what he did for the sport. He

1221
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 5: was almost the face of baseball, the face of pitching

1222
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 5: for a couple of years. You know, you'll see him

1223
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 5: on everywhere on TV. He really shaped baseball for that

1224
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 5: really short amount of time. And you know, for me,

1225
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 5: he was one of my favorite players. And I know

1226
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 5: maybe some of you guys are fans of him too,

1227
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 5: But I think Tim of the goods a Hall of Famer.

1228
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 5: And in another sport where you kind of look at

1229
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 5: a similar guy like that, you know, Told Davis was

1230
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 5: a Hall of Famer for Denver. He played maybe three

1231
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 5: four or five seasons. Three seasons words speak. That's why

1232
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 5: I see it, Tim Linsicum. I don't really it doesn't

1233
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 5: matter about the longevity. It just matters what he did

1234
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 5: and what he played, you know, in that amount of time,

1235
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 5: and Tim Linzic was an ace, he was an All Star,

1236
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 5: one of the best pictures, if his best picture in

1237
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 5: baseball during that amount of time. And that's my case

1238
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 5: on Tim Linzigam. If I had to vote, He'll get

1239
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 5: it every single year. That's my guy, and I'm sticking

1240
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 5: to it.

1241
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 7: That was a good point about in another sport, like

1242
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 7: in basketball, for example, someone liked Tim Lincigam, they probably

1243
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:42,439
Speaker 7: get in. But you know, this is the Major League

1244
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 7: Baseball Hall of Fame, where you know it's it's very

1245
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 7: difficult to get in. Like I'm curious if you had

1246
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 7: an actual BBWA vote here, would you actually vote Tim

1247
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 7: linsicum man, because he might I don't think he's a

1248
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 7: get over five percent.

1249
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 5: I would do it. I will give him the vote.

1250
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 7: You can't play favorites, man, You're I'll tell you this.

1251
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 7: I I think the Guys Year Award nine years.

1252
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 4: To say this, there are guys every year right that

1253
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 4: our first year guys that are not gonna make it,

1254
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 4: but they deserve.

1255
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 6: To stay on the ballot. And I.

1256
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 3: And I think that Tim wants to come.

1257
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 4: Is absolutely a guy that deserves to stay on the ballot,

1258
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:28,439
Speaker 4: because if he his career wasn't derailed by injuries and

1259
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 4: and he didn't have this big dip in velocity, and

1260
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 4: you know, it just kind of fell apart after like

1261
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 4: like Daniel said, those four four or five years whatever,

1262
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 4: he was absolutely going to be a Hall of Famer.

1263
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 4: I mean, those four years are for the great years

1264
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 4: that we've seen from any picture in his generation. And

1265
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 4: and I I, you know, I want to vote for

1266
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 4: him because he's he's big time Timmy Jim and I

1267
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 4: loved him growing up and.

1268
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 6: He was just such a lovable player and such a

1269
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 6: you know, Daniel was right.

1270
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 4: He was one of the faces of the game with

1271
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 4: the long hair, and they were winning championships. He was

1272
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 4: one of the faces of the league for a few years,

1273
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 4: you know, and then it just kind of, you know, obviously,

1274
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 4: the injuries kind of derailed him and it never got up.

1275
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 4: And there's a part of me that wants to vote

1276
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:16,959
Speaker 4: for him, but I just kind of hope somebody else

1277
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 4: does it for me, because he deserves he deserves to

1278
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 4: stay on. He deserves that five percent him. And I

1279
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 4: think Ryan Howard Mark Taeschera is another guy this year.

1280
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 6: I think that.

1281
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 3: Deserves more so than the other two.

1282
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, he has a you know, like a solid halid

1283
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 4: like really solid case. Honestly, h the guy also or no,

1284
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 4: I don't think so. And I didn't realize that he

1285
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 4: was like a three to five time goal glove winner

1286
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 4: or something like that. He was a good first base

1287
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 4: and he was a very good defensive first baseman and

1288
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 4: a great hitter and has like fifty war or something.

1289
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 4: So I looked into his case because I wasn't sure

1290
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 4: how much of a case he really had. But I

1291
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 4: would say those three guys, Howard and Lits to come

1292
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 4: because of the fact that they kind of, you know,

1293
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 4: they would have been We're on a pretty good track,

1294
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 4: especially Lenscombe for a long time and then he was

1295
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 4: kind of derailed because of injuries. Howard not as much really,

1296
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 4: But those three guys, I would say, are the guys

1297
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 4: that you look at on the first ballot this year.

1298
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 11: And what about Prince Fielder, Well, his career you know argument,

1299
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 11: but I wouldn't I wouldn't personally, wouldn't say Fielder belongs yet,

1300
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 11: uh wouldn't.

1301
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 4: You know, it didn't go quite that far. But Fielder

1302
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 4: was was really good and would have.

1303
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 6: Been really good.

1304
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 7: I do think, you know, like Daniel said that Lindsey

1305
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 7: Coom's peak really had did more for the sport. But

1306
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 7: I mean Prince Fielder and his peak, he was dropping

1307
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 7: fifty bombs and you know, and he was helping a

1308
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 7: pretty solid Brewers team.

1309
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 4: He's very unfortunate, very unfortunate because he could have been

1310
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 4: for a really long time.

1311
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, it really was, you know, but you know, the

1312
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 7: argument could be made for him that he doesn't deserve

1313
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 7: to fall off in the first one. So I just

1314
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 7: really you start playing that game that oh, he doesn't

1315
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:57,960
Speaker 7: deserve to get in at he deserves to stay on.

1316
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 7: It's a very slippery slope. That's fair a lot of

1317
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 7: these players, you know, for you, I saw your boy,

1318
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 7: you know your first of all, the shout out to

1319
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 7: just baseball media. Your tiktoks are phenomenal. I learned so

1320
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 7: much in just thirty seconds. Carl Crawford was one of

1321
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 7: the most prolific offensive players and one of the best

1322
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 7: defensive left fielders. You know, in a lot of times,

1323
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 7: that's someone else they can make the argument for. So

1324
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,919
Speaker 7: I just think we gotta be careful when we start discussing, oh,

1325
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 7: he be on another one, because Horiy Pisada was a

1326
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 7: perfect example of someone who deserves to be on for

1327
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 7: much longer. Because everyone's saying Buster Posey, you know, for

1328
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 7: sure hall of Famer for shar hall of famer.

1329
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 3: What about Horry Pisado?

1330
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 4: M hm.

1331
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 3: Moving quickly through the next guys in the first year,

1332
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 3: there's Justin Mornau, There's Joe Nathan, Jonathan Papelbon, which I

1333
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 3: we have to get into that one later, but I

1334
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 3: think that's gonna go with Belly Wagner in a bit,

1335
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 3: Jake pv aj Pierzinski, Jimmy Rollins, and Mark Deschera. Those

1336
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 3: are the other guys on the first year ballot. Let's

1337
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 3: move on very quickly through the other guys who are

1338
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 3: on the ballot. Bobby A. Bray, that's an interesting case

1339
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 3: and I think we'll touch up quickly than What are

1340
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 3: your thoughts on Bobby Bray at the moment right now?

1341
01:03:57,840 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 3: He has a I think a very low vote.

1342
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 4: It's like Daniel Alvarez loves this guy because you know

1343
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 4: he's Venezuelan and he is a very, very very underrated player.

1344
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 4: You do not realize how good Bobby A. Braw is

1345
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 4: a lot of people don't realize how good Bobby or

1346
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 4: Braw was and he he's really he was overshadowed by

1347
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 4: a lot of great right fielders in his generation, you know,

1348
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 4: guys like Larry's Lad Bonds, of course Sosa. But his

1349
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 4: numbers like match up pretty comparably, like pretty well to

1350
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 4: those guys, right, and so you kind of look at

1351
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:33,959
Speaker 4: it and you're like, wow, this is a really great

1352
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 4: player who on a weaker ballot. This is a really

1353
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 4: strong ballot. Like there's a lot of guys, you know,

1354
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 4: but next year, obviously you can't vote for Shilling and

1355
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 4: Clemens and and and Bond, Yeah, Bonds on inse bonds.

1356
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 4: So there are like three guys that drop off. A

1357
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 4: Bray you could be the guy that if you want

1358
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 4: to vote for guys every year that could be on

1359
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 4: the ballot next year that is not on it this

1360
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 4: year because you have an extra vote. And you say, hmm, now,

1361
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 4: looking at this updi ballot, who would you vote for?

1362
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 4: Probably Bobby and Bray you would be the first name

1363
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 4: that would come to mind for me because he's he's

1364
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 4: he's a he has a very solid case and if

1365
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 4: I want to vote for ten guys every year. Bobby Bray,

1366
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 4: who definitely slides right into to the next group that

1367
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 4: I would vote for.

1368
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 3: The next guy is a very familiar face to Myrlands fan.

1369
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 3: It's Mark Burley, who pitched one season for the twelve

1370
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 3: tenty twelve Marlands. I won't get too much into him,

1371
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 3: but he is a World Series champ. Then there's Todd Helton,

1372
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 3: who has a good case because of Larry Walker getting in.

1373
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:30,479
Speaker 3: He played in course Field.

1374
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure Todd Helton has Totten Helton has a

1375
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 4: great case because how great he was, and his case

1376
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 4: will now be helped by the fact that Larry Walker

1377
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 4: got in, because people are going to say, ah, screw it,

1378
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 4: there's already somebody that played in Coursfield in, So let's

1379
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 4: put Todd Helton in. Great Player deserves a ton of recognition.

1380
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 4: I'm glad he's doing really well. That's a good percentage

1381
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 4: for Todd Helton, and his fourth year on the ballot,

1382
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 4: that might drop a little bit from the private ballot,

1383
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,479
Speaker 4: but Great Player probably would have been the best first

1384
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:05,959
Speaker 4: basement of his generation had a guy named Albert pool

1385
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 4: Holes not been around, at least in the National League

1386
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 4: but that Albert pool Holes guy was pretty good. So

1387
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 4: Helton top three first baseman in the NL or maybe

1388
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 4: in all of baseball for his generation, that should pretty

1389
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 4: much be a qualifier.

1390
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 7: I would say hit sixty war the numbers are then

1391
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 7: in the longevity of his career is also there.

1392
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 5: Sixteen adding average hit three seventy two one year three

1393
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 5: seven to two. That's insane, you know.

1394
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 7: And he also sort of for you know, he he

1395
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 7: kind of retired, not exactly on top of the way,

1396
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 7: you know, or tease or you know, we get to

1397
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 7: other names like how so he kind of he didn't

1398
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,520
Speaker 7: let you know, he's not doing the pool Holes downwards.

1399
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 7: Pro he retired still, you know, hitting pretty well. So

1400
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 7: that's something that I like to keep in mind as well.

1401
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 3: Then then you got to Hunter, Tory Hunter, and then

1402
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 3: there's Andrew Jones. I know you like this guy, Ethan.

1403
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 3: I think on your pod you said that this is

1404
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 3: a guy who you would campaign for a lot to

1405
01:06:58,200 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 3: get into the Hall of Fame, and I think most

1406
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 3: of us voted for him. We'll get into the ballots

1407
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 3: after this, but your thoughts and Andrew Jones, and then

1408
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 3: we'll keeping.

1409
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 4: I love this guy best defender since Willie Mays maybe

1410
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 4: maybe best defender ever. And it's just kind of how

1411
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 4: good do you have to be on offense if you're

1412
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 4: that great of a defender to be on my ballot.

1413
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 4: I think Andrew Jones was good enough offensively and Omar

1414
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 4: Viscul was not good enough offensively in terms of how

1415
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 4: great their offense was. People forget that Andrew Jones has

1416
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 4: like almost four hundred and fifty home runs. I know,

1417
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 4: he hit two fifty seven. That's what everybody gets mad about, right,

1418
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 4: But I mean with that defense, like ten gold gloves,

1419
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 4: four hundred and thirty seven home runs and a positive

1420
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 4: way to run straight a plus, I think it's like

1421
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 4: one eleven or something. I know Carver doesn't like this

1422
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 4: case as much as I do, but Jones no.

1423
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 8: I reviewed it because I was on the fence and

1424
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 8: I was like, that's that offensive state line? Man, I

1425
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 8: don't know that this slash line. You know, the home runs, yeah, definitely,

1426
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 8: But you know, was he good enough elsewhere? And you

1427
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 8: make the point with the defense, I mean, he's basically

1428
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 8: John Carlo Stanton at the plate, or was John Carlo

1429
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 8: Stanton at the plane in those days? With absolutely amazing defense,

1430
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 8: like you weren't gonna find a better outfielder in those times.

1431
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 8: Maybe with Griffy, maybe, but Andrew Jones was right up

1432
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 8: there with with Griffy in terms of defense, and man

1433
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,600
Speaker 8: like you, you can't say no, I have him on

1434
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 8: my ballot.

1435
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 6: I think he deserves it.

1436
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 8: Like I said, remind hitting reminds me of Stanton Ton

1437
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 8: of power, not enough average, but the defense does it.

1438
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 8: And just to go back really quickly, I know you're

1439
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 8: going quickly here a Kevin with with Todd Helton. You

1440
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 8: have those those really skewed splits home road home from

1441
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,759
Speaker 8: home road, right, but look at the defense. Todd Helton

1442
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 8: was not good, not good on defense, A negative dwar

1443
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:50,640
Speaker 8: player negative two. Actually, So is there enough with the

1444
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 8: skewed splits and the bad defense?

1445
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,440
Speaker 3: I say, no, interesting?

1446
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 6: Interesting.

1447
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 4: I know you love that era of baseball, Alex, so

1448
01:08:57,400 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 4: I kind of thought you would be a big Tod

1449
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:02,800
Speaker 4: Hilton guy. Yeah, the splits are a little more egregious

1450
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 4: than like a Larry Walker Walkers. Larry Walkers splits are

1451
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 4: were like epic and he only played like a third

1452
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:11,799
Speaker 4: of his games at Courise Field or something, whereas Helton

1453
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 4: played all you know his his his whole career game

1454
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 4: right games were at Courisfield because he played his whole

1455
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 4: career with the Rockies. But Hellen was just a he's

1456
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 4: just a great player.

1457
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I didn't.

1458
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 7: I didn't love the comparison, you know, with Helton and like, oh,

1459
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 7: because Larry Walker got in because the superior player, Yeah,

1460
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 7: for sure. And like you mentioned the different teams that

1461
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 7: I wanted to play it on and held. I think

1462
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 7: Helton is the perfect example that someone that's gonna be

1463
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:39,440
Speaker 7: on the ballot all ten years and just be a Colorado.

1464
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 3: Rocky Hall of Famer.

1465
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:43,720
Speaker 8: Not amazing career career three thirty Babbitt, just to keep

1466
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 8: in mind, interesting, he's not.

1467
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 3: To me, He's a Rockey Hall of Famer.

1468
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 7: He is the epitome of like a one team Hall

1469
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 7: of Famer. It helps him, you know that he play

1470
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 7: from ninety seven to twenty thirteen.

1471
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 4: I think it was, but I that if you look

1472
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 4: at some of the batting averages, I would have to

1473
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 4: do a Todd Helton episode.

1474
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 6: Actually I was really.

1475
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 8: Close, right, He's like close he is, I think ultimately

1476
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 8: when it comes down to it, looking at everything, you know,

1477
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 8: play with Colorado's.

1478
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:12,759
Speaker 6: Whole career, the splits, the defense.

1479
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 8: There's just more of a slightly more of a case

1480
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 8: for me not to check his name than to check

1481
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 8: his name.

1482
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 6: So it's very close, though I wouldn't blame anybody for

1483
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 6: voting him for it.

1484
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 3: The next guy very quickly, h Indy Pettitt, I don't know.

1485
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 3: It's a weird case. I don't think he gets in.

1486
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 3: It was just weird just seeing the stats from the start.

1487
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 3: I don't think he has any s Z. I'm so

1488
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 3: sure if his intimidating face and that's it. Yeah. The

1489
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 3: next guy, it is many ramires. The stats are there.

1490
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 3: That's a fun one. The two Pedes don't get him

1491
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 3: in there.

1492
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 7: That's I didn't realize it was.

1493
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 3: Is it two pds for Manny? It is too positive?

1494
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 7: But not only that, Alex is a two pds as

1495
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:49,160
Speaker 7: well as being an asshole off the field.

1496
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 8: So yeah, like about Kurt, Yeah, there's Manny being Manny.

1497
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,639
Speaker 8: I'm of the opinion that Manny being Manny was bad

1498
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 8: for baseball, and I'll tell you why. And you can't

1499
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 8: have somebody that was bad for baseball and the Hall

1500
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 8: of Fame. I know Red Sox fans love him. I'm

1501
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 8: sure I have my dad's screaming, right, but I think

1502
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 8: that his whole attitude and the way that he was.

1503
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 8: He was arrested for assaulting his wife, He was nearly

1504
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 8: arrested for assaulting a traveling secretary with the Red Sox.

1505
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,679
Speaker 8: He showed up to practice as late. He took himself

1506
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 8: out of All Star Games and said he was injured

1507
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 8: when he really wasn't. Like he didn't want to be

1508
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:25,759
Speaker 8: around the game anymore than he had to be around

1509
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 8: the game, and part of the time that he was

1510
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 8: around the game, he was detrimental to the team that

1511
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 8: he was on. He left Red Sox, the Boston Red

1512
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 8: Sox and disgrace after he did what he did that

1513
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:36,600
Speaker 8: I just said, and then he just went wherever the

1514
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 8: money was for the rest of his career. And when

1515
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 8: his career ended, he retired in friggin disgrace. Right, Another

1516
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 8: accusation came out. He just said to the Rays, Okay,

1517
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 8: I'm retiring, like just walk down on the team. So

1518
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 8: it's a very bad character issues more than Kurt Schilling,

1519
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 8: because Kurt Schilling is what he was.

1520
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:54,720
Speaker 6: After the game.

1521
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 8: He goes on Twitter, he's on Facebook, he's making a

1522
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,559
Speaker 8: fool of himself. In my opinion, I don't I'm with Eli.

1523
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 8: I don't think he did enough to completely tarnish his

1524
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 8: legacy and take away his Hall of Fame spot. Uh,

1525
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 8: especially maybe maybe from the BBWAA, because I don't think

1526
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 8: anybody's gonna now that he's asked people to take away

1527
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 8: the vote. Like, I don't think he's gonna get elected.

1528
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 8: I highly doubt it. I think he probably will get

1529
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 8: in Veterans Committee because his career was that good. But

1530
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 8: Manny just did too much detrimental stuff. I mean, he

1531
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 8: was selfish, like goes into the green Monster during a

1532
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 8: game that cut off play that he can never explain,

1533
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 8: like because so many things with this guy that he

1534
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 8: was just just.

1535
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:32,719
Speaker 6: Just detrimental to the game of baseball.

1536
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 8: I think Ramirez did enough to tarnish his name and

1537
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:36,799
Speaker 8: take away his vote, right, I agree.

1538
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 3: But he wasn't only detrimental, you know. At the same time,

1539
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:40,719
Speaker 3: he was one of the best right handed hits.

1540
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 6: And the stats are there. You agreed, You're You're absolutely right.

1541
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 8: The stats are one hundred percent there five home run

1542
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:48,560
Speaker 8: club defense was crap, but other than that offensive stats.

1543
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 6: Absolutely agreed.

1544
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 8: I mean, if he wasn't the asshole that he was

1545
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 8: during his playing career. I'd put him in, but he

1546
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 8: he did enough for me to take away his vote

1547
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 8: because of who he is as a person.

1548
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,920
Speaker 3: I don't think, what do you like to say about

1549
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 3: this one?

1550
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for one, I mean, his hitting is

1551
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 1: like somehow underrated in hindsight, how consistently ridiculous he was.

1552
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:14,719
Speaker 1: Because there there are other players we're talked about, Big Poppy.

1553
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 1: He was man He was a better hitter than Big

1554
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 1: Poppy was. He was better hitter than Andrew Jones. Certainly,

1555
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: who else did we talk about already? He was a

1556
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 1: better He was like as good a hitter as the

1557
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: pre steroids. Better than Sosa is a great name to

1558
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 1: bring up too, because Sosa is one that like just

1559
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: missed for me, and with Manny, I think, yeah, it's

1560
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 1: it's kind of night to day. Even though the home

1561
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 1: run totals kind of look similar, you look at the

1562
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 1: overall hitter, the consistency of the hitter from many it's like,

1563
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 1: really a decade and a half where every single year

1564
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 1: he was one of the very best hitters in the

1565
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 1: entire league. Alex I, I just don't know that whole

1566
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:54,640
Speaker 1: narrative really holds up that you were putting out there

1567
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:57,439
Speaker 1: about not wanting to be around the game anymore than

1568
01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:00,400
Speaker 1: he had to. He's he's been playing as of like

1569
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 1: two years ago. He was playing in overseas, whether it

1570
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: was in Australia or in Title or wherever else like

1571
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 1: when here, it was a really ugly ending to his

1572
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 1: major league career getting squeezed out like that, And yeah,

1573
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:17,680
Speaker 1: essentially kind of like giving up on returning to the

1574
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,799
Speaker 1: major leagues once he was about forty years old because

1575
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 1: of the ped clup, because he didn't want to serve

1576
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 1: the suspension that he was given the second time around,

1577
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 1: Like that was that's that's kind of lame. That's it

1578
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: really is. And he's not somebody that I would endorse

1579
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: as a person or as a role model, but in

1580
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:36,320
Speaker 1: terms of somebody that really did love the game and

1581
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: that I felt, more more often than not, really was

1582
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: enjoyable to watch as well. I don't see anything disqualifying

1583
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,600
Speaker 1: from him on a personal perspective anymore so than some

1584
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 1: of the other players that we brought up. Yeah, the

1585
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 1: people that aren't voting for him, and there are as

1586
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 1: you see a whole lot of people that aren't voting

1587
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:58,840
Speaker 1: for him. It's their interpretation of the ped situation, the

1588
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:02,720
Speaker 1: fact that he would was served two suspensions after it

1589
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: was already against the rules, like he knew the rules

1590
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,679
Speaker 1: and still got thrown out because of it. And there

1591
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:11,759
Speaker 1: there are voters that kind of understandably draw a certain

1592
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 1: line there where they feel that's just that's on that

1593
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 1: you can't be redeemed from doing that. So I'm not

1594
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 1: one of those people. I understand why there are And

1595
01:15:22,479 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 1: he's going to be a curious case long term because

1596
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:25,720
Speaker 1: I don't know how he's going to be viewed by

1597
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:29,559
Speaker 1: the next generation by those special committees, but certainly for

1598
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:33,679
Speaker 1: the writers, you know, allow them understandably have some issues

1599
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: with him.

1600
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 7: You know, if any player here were do have disqualify

1601
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:39,759
Speaker 7: themselves off the field, I think it would be Manny

1602
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,720
Speaker 7: so elim has any player, in your opinion, have the

1603
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:44,760
Speaker 7: numbers to be in the Hall of Fame but has

1604
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 7: disqualified themselves for their character, not besides pds, besides taking

1605
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 7: away PDS. I'm talking you know, off field nonsense, like

1606
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,120
Speaker 7: you know, like the domestic violence issue, like Manny well.

1607
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: Among the guys on this ballad, I didn't think so

1608
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure if you like through the entire list of

1609
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:06,759
Speaker 1: guys that have retired and would be eligible for consideration. Yeah,

1610
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, for for me, there's just a it's

1611
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 1: it's pretty it's it's a blurry line, but it's yeah,

1612
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,880
Speaker 1: in fact, like the blurry line is really thick in

1613
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,639
Speaker 1: terms of all the issues that people made hold against

1614
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:27,280
Speaker 1: the player. But how those issues don't necessarily like keep

1615
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 1: them out of the hole. In my opinion that those

1616
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 1: don't necessarily Just so.

1617
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:32,719
Speaker 6: What's what's the line?

1618
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 3: What's what?

1619
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 6: That's my question.

1620
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 3: You don't have to give it.

1621
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 8: You don't have to give it like an actual Okay,

1622
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 8: if you do this, you're I'm not asking that.

1623
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 6: My question is I think, Manny did it? Like for

1624
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 6: everything that you just said, I I think and I

1625
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 6: hold a different opinion in you. That's nothing new.

1626
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 8: But my question is, what, like what what what else

1627
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 8: do you have to do? He did steroids, He assaulted

1628
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 8: his wife, he assaulted employees, like he did stupid ship

1629
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 8: during games like I I just don't he was all

1630
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 8: about I think he's.

1631
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 6: All about himself personally.

1632
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:05,599
Speaker 8: I knew, I know fans loved him. He was also

1633
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 8: if you want to go back to playing stats.

1634
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 6: His defense wasn't great.

1635
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 8: I can throw that in as well, but just in

1636
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 8: terms of character issues, right, and the Hall does vote

1637
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 8: on it.

1638
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 6: It is in the class they want you to vote

1639
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 6: on sportsmanship and character.

1640
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,720
Speaker 8: I think many Ormirez is neither a sportsman and he's

1641
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:21,599
Speaker 8: a terrible character. So what what does a player have

1642
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 8: to do to just qualify him from his playing metrics?

1643
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:26,680
Speaker 8: And Manny had great ones, So what I just want

1644
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 8: to know really quick, I guess what what would a

1645
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 8: player have to do?

1646
01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 3: I think I think at the end of the day,

1647
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 3: it comes down to there's no issues with him on

1648
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:39,479
Speaker 3: the field, besides you know, him getting distracted. But because

1649
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 3: the stats say at all he was a good player overall.

1650
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 3: It's off the field where the issues come in, which

1651
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 3: is why I don't think he may get in. Yeah,

1652
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 3: this isn't the good guy museum. This is a Baseball

1653
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:53,480
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame museum.

1654
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 8: Right, But you you you have to still be somewhat

1655
01:17:57,280 --> 01:17:59,479
Speaker 8: of a person, right, he has to still be good

1656
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:01,679
Speaker 8: for base I think.

1657
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 6: I think he didn't. It's his personal opinion.

1658
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 3: You guy a.

1659
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,720
Speaker 7: Careers of nine ninety six, that's I.

1660
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 6: Understood, But you still have to be. You still have

1661
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 6: to be a character. You still have to be a

1662
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:15,559
Speaker 6: good character. Right, You're gonna put him up.

1663
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 8: You're gonna put this guy in the Hall of Fame

1664
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:20,639
Speaker 8: up against right, possibly right next to his plaque, right

1665
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:23,640
Speaker 8: next to somebody like Derek Jeter, right right next to

1666
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 8: somebody like Ken Griffey Jr.

1667
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 3: Right, So you.

1668
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:28,519
Speaker 8: Still have to be You don't have to be mother Teresa, right,

1669
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:30,920
Speaker 8: But you gotta be a good a good person at

1670
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 8: least somewhat of a good person to make it into

1671
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:34,799
Speaker 8: this Hall of Fame. You've got to be good for baseball.

1672
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 8: And I think Manny did enough to disqualify him from

1673
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 8: getting a vote. And that's just me.

1674
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:40,280
Speaker 6: All right.

1675
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 3: Moving on to the night final four guys, which I

1676
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 3: don't think we'll talk about killer Man.

1677
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:47,920
Speaker 6: That was that was entertaining from Afar. I enjoyed that.

1678
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:53,679
Speaker 3: There's Scott Rowland, Gary Sheffield, Scott Rowland for a second ahead,

1679
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:57,240
Speaker 3: This is legitimately you want a clean case. Somebody in

1680
01:18:57,240 --> 01:18:59,640
Speaker 3: here said earlier that, like I've seen people say that,

1681
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:04,639
Speaker 3: like there's something wrong with everybody right on the ballot ron.

1682
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 3: Scott Roland is on the ballot This dude has no character.

1683
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:12,320
Speaker 3: It seems like no character issues unless there's something I

1684
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 3: don't know about that has not been I have not

1685
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,520
Speaker 3: been made aware of off the field leader in the clubhouse,

1686
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 3: you know, loved, beloved by two cities, so Philly and

1687
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:28,960
Speaker 3: Saint Louis. World champion with the Cardinals. A tremendous baseball

1688
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,800
Speaker 3: player like Jeff Kent and Scott Roland have the same

1689
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:34,160
Speaker 3: exact hitting stats pretty much. They have the same ops

1690
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:36,280
Speaker 3: and I think one of them has like one point

1691
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 3: higher way to run s created plus.

1692
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 6: I can't remember it.

1693
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 4: They might even have the same way to run create

1694
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 4: a plus. But Roland was an eight time Gold Glover

1695
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 4: at third base, which is like the third most Gold

1696
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 4: Gloves of all time. Now he's tied with Ronado, and

1697
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:52,240
Speaker 4: Ronado's won it every year that he's been in the league.

1698
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:56,840
Speaker 4: But he's like right behind Schmidt and Brooks Robinson. A

1699
01:19:56,880 --> 01:20:00,360
Speaker 4: tremendous player. Gonna get in like seventy two point four.

1700
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 4: He's not gonna get in this year, but he's gonna

1701
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:04,000
Speaker 4: get in the next. I would say, either next year

1702
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:06,240
Speaker 4: or the year after that, Scott Rowland's getting in the

1703
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:09,680
Speaker 4: Hall of Fame. You talked about how underrated Manny was

1704
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 4: possibly the most underrated player, underrated great player of the

1705
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:19,480
Speaker 4: generation that Scott Roland played in. Is Scott Roland incredible

1706
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 4: baseball player? Not enough people recognize it, absolutely one percent.

1707
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:28,680
Speaker 4: If you want the best case, best complete case on

1708
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,040
Speaker 4: the ballot when you talk about baseball, merit, when you

1709
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:34,639
Speaker 4: talk about character. I think Scott Rowland is number one,

1710
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 4: absolutely amazing baseball player and deserves to be in the

1711
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:38,800
Speaker 4: Hall of Fame.

1712
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:41,599
Speaker 3: Moving on to the final three guys to Gary Sheffield, who,

1713
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 3: as I mentioned, he could be the first Marlin to

1714
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 3: get in. If he gets them, he he would be

1715
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:47,680
Speaker 3: the first one. I think he's on his eighth year

1716
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:48,400
Speaker 3: fund characteristic.

1717
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you know, I think I think so

1718
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 4: because you don't. People don't realize that the best four

1719
01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:00,680
Speaker 4: his peak, so his seven year peak. But is his

1720
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,479
Speaker 4: prime I would say hit The peak of his career

1721
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:06,680
Speaker 4: was in a Marlin's uniform, those that ninety three to

1722
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:09,720
Speaker 4: ninety seven stretch, and not enough people realized that he

1723
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 4: was incredible here And I think that because the best

1724
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 4: years of his career were in a Marlin's uniform. I

1725
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 4: think of him as a Yankee. I know people think

1726
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:22,679
Speaker 4: of him as a brave, but I think the best

1727
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:24,680
Speaker 4: years of his career are in a Marlin uniform, and

1728
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 4: for that reason, I think he would go.

1729
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 3: In wearing Hyeah and that's where he won his World

1730
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 3: Series with the Martins as well.

1731
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 8: Let's talk about one stat to bring up about Gary Sheffield, right,

1732
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 8: of every member of the five hundred home run club,

1733
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 8: and this is how just how much of a pure hitter.

1734
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:39,760
Speaker 8: Obviously everybody talks about five hundred and nine.

1735
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 6: Home runs, right, he hit five runs.

1736
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:44,800
Speaker 8: This is true, and you know, I know that some

1737
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:46,599
Speaker 8: voters look down on that now, they say that five

1738
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 8: hundred home runs isn't what he used To me, I disagree.

1739
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 8: This guy was hitting twenty three home runs on average

1740
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:53,800
Speaker 8: a year. And on top of that, what he did

1741
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 8: in terms of her collactiveness. How did he hit those

1742
01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 8: home runs? He didn't hit them just because he was

1743
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:01,200
Speaker 8: the strongest guy in the world, or because he did steroids.

1744
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:02,719
Speaker 8: He hit them because he was selective.

1745
01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 5: Right.

1746
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 8: His strikeout rate career is ten point seven percent of

1747
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 8: everybody in the five in her home run club. That's

1748
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 8: the third lowest, and it's behind Melot I think Melot,

1749
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 8: or maybe not Melos. I know it's behind Ted Williams

1750
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 8: and one other player, So you're stacking him up. You're

1751
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 8: stacking him up against everybody in the that's ever hit

1752
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:23,679
Speaker 8: five in her home runs, and he is among that group,

1753
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 8: probably in my opinion, the third best pure hitter.

1754
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 6: He's got to be there. I mean, he was bad

1755
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:28,559
Speaker 6: on defense.

1756
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 8: He's played third base for the beginning of his career,

1757
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:32,519
Speaker 8: was terrible. He was a little bit better as an outfielder,

1758
01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 8: but not much. His arm was good, but he ran

1759
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 8: horrible routes. So he's getting in off one thing alone.

1760
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:40,519
Speaker 8: If he gets in and it's his offense. What will

1761
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 8: hurt him definitely is his relationship with media, which was horrible.

1762
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 6: He was he was not good to writers.

1763
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:48,679
Speaker 3: He just wasn't. He just wasn't.

1764
01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 6: And he admits it.

1765
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:51,120
Speaker 8: He says, I always spoke my mind and said what

1766
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:52,719
Speaker 8: I wanted to because if I didn't do it, nobody

1767
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:54,720
Speaker 8: else was going to do it. And I mean, you

1768
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 8: can say that's fine for you, but in that moment

1769
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 8: and in those moments where he was doing that time

1770
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 8: after time after time, he was killing his Hall of

1771
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:05,040
Speaker 8: Fame case. We talked about, He's not there. That's why

1772
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:07,040
Speaker 8: I don't think he will get there. I think he

1773
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:09,200
Speaker 8: should be there, but because of that is why he

1774
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 8: will not be there.

1775
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 6: We talked about earlier one of the best peer hitters

1776
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:13,000
Speaker 6: ever in my opinion.

1777
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:16,760
Speaker 4: We talked about earlier with Viscale and Jones, how good

1778
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:20,639
Speaker 4: you have to be on offense to be to get

1779
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:23,600
Speaker 4: in based off your defense? Right, how good do you

1780
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 4: have to be on offense? Sheffield is kind of the

1781
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:28,600
Speaker 4: anti that, how would you have to be on the

1782
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 4: offense to get in? Knowing that you're probably you would

1783
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 4: be far and away the worst defender that's ever been

1784
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 4: in the Hall of Fame. If you go off of

1785
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 4: defensive rating Gary Sheffield on Fancraft, Gary Sheffield will be

1786
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:43,200
Speaker 4: the worst defender in the Hall of Fame by one

1787
01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:47,880
Speaker 4: hundred points to Frank Thomas. Okay, Frank Thomas is currently

1788
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 4: the worst defender in the Hall of Fame. Gary Sheffield's

1789
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:52,959
Speaker 4: defensive rating is one hundred points lower than Frank Thomas's

1790
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 4: and if so, if he got in the Hall of Fame, he.

1791
01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:00,840
Speaker 7: Would be with PDS And with what Ethan just told us,

1792
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:04,320
Speaker 7: I don't know, I did.

1793
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:09,519
Speaker 4: I did a Gary Sheffield episode last year and I

1794
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:12,759
Speaker 4: recommend everybody going back and listening to the Gary Sheffield episode,

1795
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 4: because I ran through his whole career. I started at

1796
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:19,600
Speaker 4: the beginning and I ran through it to the end.

1797
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 4: And then I told you how he matched up against

1798
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 4: the guys in his career. Whatever, That's how I do

1799
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:25,639
Speaker 4: my player episodes.

1800
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:28,840
Speaker 8: Right, if you're if you're comparable in any way, what

1801
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 8: so if I can mention your name in the same

1802
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 8: frame of mind, the same sentence as Ted Williams.

1803
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:36,599
Speaker 6: Yes, you belong in the Hall of Fame, correct, Right?

1804
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:39,120
Speaker 4: And so you look at his career and he played

1805
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 4: twenty one seasons and he was good until the end.

1806
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:44,640
Speaker 4: Like he he had like one hundred and eleven way

1807
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:46,400
Speaker 4: to run straight a plus in one hundred games in

1808
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:49,519
Speaker 4: the final year of his career, which he only came

1809
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 4: back so that he could hit his five hundred home run,

1810
01:24:52,200 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 4: still played one hundred games and was still productive.

1811
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:57,960
Speaker 3: He hit like hit twenty three in his last season.

1812
01:24:58,240 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 6: And one more thing to mention that, because I know

1813
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,720
Speaker 6: you're going along on him. But another thing to mention.

1814
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:05,519
Speaker 8: We talk about telling the story of baseball right when

1815
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 8: I was growing up, and I'm sure he lies in

1816
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:07,599
Speaker 8: the same boat.

1817
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 6: It doesn't matter if you were a Marlins, Stan or not.

1818
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:11,519
Speaker 6: And it's still mimics to this day.

1819
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 8: If you weren't getting into the play in little league

1820
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:16,599
Speaker 8: or whatever and doing the batwaggle, you you weren't a player.

1821
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 6: You just weren't.

1822
01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 10: Like that was it.

1823
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 6: Gary Sheffield bat waggle was everything.

1824
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:25,759
Speaker 4: There's something to be said for players that have iconic

1825
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:30,400
Speaker 4: things like exact nic batting stances or or something like that.

1826
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 4: And and in Sheffield it's just you just look at him,

1827
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 4: and you look at.

1828
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:37,439
Speaker 3: His career, you look at.

1829
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:40,040
Speaker 4: What he did as a hitter, and you you just

1830
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:43,479
Speaker 4: kind of say, that's what a Hall of Famer looks like.

1831
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 6: And and so I think he has to be in personally.

1832
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:48,599
Speaker 3: Moving on to the final two guys, which I don't

1833
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:50,519
Speaker 3: think we don't have time to get into our Oma

1834
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 3: Visca omar Vis SkELL who has a weird case, and

1835
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:56,439
Speaker 3: then Billy Wagner, who you could look at it two

1836
01:25:56,479 --> 01:25:58,960
Speaker 3: ways and depending how you really look into a reliever.

1837
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:02,920
Speaker 3: But going into everyone's ballot, let's start off with Kevin.

1838
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 4: This is how you have to look at Billy Wagner.

1839
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 4: Can't you have to ask yourself this question, can the

1840
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:11,760
Speaker 4: best left handed reliever of all time not be in

1841
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 4: the Hall of Fame.

1842
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:12,960
Speaker 3: I think you should.

1843
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:16,280
Speaker 6: That's the question. You have to ask that, And I

1844
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:18,920
Speaker 6: think he belongs just to Precursey. The antithesis of that

1845
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 6: is did he pitch enough? Did he do enough?

1846
01:26:22,280 --> 01:26:24,360
Speaker 8: Was he Is there enough of a sample to say

1847
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 8: that this man is a Hall of Famer. He's one

1848
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:28,799
Speaker 8: of the most dominant left handed pitchers of all time period.

1849
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 8: You can stack his stats up against Trevor Hoffman, they

1850
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 8: just back up pretty well. Often pitched more right. But

1851
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 8: even though Hawkman pitched more innings, guess what, Billy Wagner

1852
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:41,120
Speaker 8: had more strikeouts. So and it's like one hundred or

1853
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:44,320
Speaker 8: over one hundred more innings, so probably probably more than

1854
01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:45,559
Speaker 8: a full season for a closer.

1855
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:49,080
Speaker 6: Right, he had four hundred and twenty two saves, just exactly.

1856
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:51,840
Speaker 8: So you know, looking at if you strike out more

1857
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:53,639
Speaker 8: than a current Hall of Famer that had your same

1858
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:56,760
Speaker 8: position and less innings and you had a better ra

1859
01:26:57,040 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 8: you can look at that too.

1860
01:26:58,320 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 3: I think you have to put him in.

1861
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:03,120
Speaker 8: I mean, characters weren't a problem for him, like I mean,

1862
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:05,720
Speaker 8: I know he's like a lesser down name, but man, like,

1863
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 8: I think it's a very interesting case too, and this

1864
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 8: is probably for a different time. Like I think him

1865
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:14,840
Speaker 8: getting in or not getting in will paint the picture

1866
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:17,080
Speaker 8: for like what exactly does a relief pitcher have to do?

1867
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:19,639
Speaker 8: Like if if Billy Wagner doesn't get in, Joe Nathan

1868
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 8: is not getting in, right, and neither will Jonathan Papon.

1869
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:28,479
Speaker 3: Ever future maybe Craig Kimbroll maybe won't get in either.

1870
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:30,600
Speaker 4: There has to be a place for relievers in the

1871
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:32,680
Speaker 4: Hall of Fame because they're such an important part of

1872
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:33,040
Speaker 4: the game.

1873
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:35,400
Speaker 6: So you kind of add something.

1874
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:37,439
Speaker 4: I have to judge them on a different scale, Like

1875
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:40,160
Speaker 4: I'm I'm an advocate for the pinch hitter wing, Like

1876
01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:43,640
Speaker 4: Lenny Harris is gonna be the first guy in the pinch, but.

1877
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:48,120
Speaker 6: Matt Staires, why not? But they're there.

1878
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:51,559
Speaker 4: You can't like Rolly Fingers and all those guys are.

1879
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:52,160
Speaker 1: In, you know what I mean?

1880
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:55,559
Speaker 4: And they finger they started in their career right.

1881
01:27:56,000 --> 01:27:59,880
Speaker 8: But I think I think I think Wagner stacks up

1882
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:03,200
Speaker 8: well enough with with Trevor Hoffman. Actually I think I

1883
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 8: think Wagner was a better pitch.

1884
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:05,240
Speaker 3: Hoffman is in.

1885
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:07,960
Speaker 6: Then I think Wagner you have to you have to, right,

1886
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:09,799
Speaker 6: I mean, it's like just one hundred and ten lessonings,

1887
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 6: you get enough, put him in.

1888
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:14,040
Speaker 3: All right, now, let's go into everyone's ballot. We all

1889
01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 3: did make our own ballots besides Ethan. Uh so we'll

1890
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 3: get into Isaac's. Mine will be coming eventually, it will

1891
01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 3: be on the podcast. I'm saving that for the thought.

1892
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 3: I think the best way to do it is Ethan.

1893
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 3: You react, and I guess you could give it like

1894
01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 3: a grade or something. Maybe. Oh God, alright, I like this.

1895
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:32,400
Speaker 4: I have all the power right now.

1896
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 3: I love this.

1897
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 4: All right, let's do this.

1898
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:34,680
Speaker 3: All right, here we go.

1899
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 6: All right, this is Isaac.

1900
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:38,880
Speaker 3: No, I just sort of, you know what with some

1901
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:39,639
Speaker 3: of the obvious ones.

1902
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:42,120
Speaker 7: I don't know how many years left Gary, because you

1903
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:44,000
Speaker 7: know this is Gary's last year out to vote for him.

1904
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:46,040
Speaker 3: I know you're gonna give me a bad grade for

1905
01:28:46,160 --> 01:28:47,240
Speaker 3: not having rolling in there.

1906
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:50,680
Speaker 4: So so Isaac, this is the thing. As long as

1907
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 4: you people vote for like deserving guys, I say, I'll

1908
01:28:56,000 --> 01:28:58,360
Speaker 4: say it's a good ballot, and you have five guys

1909
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:03,599
Speaker 4: that have legitimately cases on here, but you don't have enough.

1910
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 4: You left out Jones, you left out Helton.

1911
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 3: I didn't want to vote for Jones.

1912
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:10,519
Speaker 7: I I did leave out Wagner, I left out Roland,

1913
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:12,160
Speaker 7: and I left out Gary Sheffield.

1914
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 3: Those are the three that I I'll give it.

1915
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 6: I'll give it a B minus because you have you

1916
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 6: have your last time on Fish Stripes Live.

1917
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 4: But you have you have you have five very solid

1918
01:29:22,120 --> 01:29:25,840
Speaker 4: candidates that are deserving, but you just fall a little

1919
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:27,320
Speaker 4: short of really good.

1920
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:30,040
Speaker 6: But this is a good ballot. It's not a great ballot.

1921
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:34,160
Speaker 3: I get you. Let's get into Alex Carver's ballot next.

1922
01:29:34,439 --> 01:29:37,200
Speaker 4: This should be interesting. Alex and I view view things

1923
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:39,800
Speaker 4: a little bit differently. All right, eight players.

1924
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:42,600
Speaker 6: Oh, this is good. This is really good. That is

1925
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:43,719
Speaker 6: that is high quality.

1926
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:46,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a perfect ballot. That is very high quality

1927
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:50,280
Speaker 4: stuff ballot. There's a there's you know, there's been a

1928
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:53,160
Speaker 4: little bit of inconsistency in the discussion today. I would

1929
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:56,799
Speaker 4: put Helton on, of course, I'm happy you put Andrew

1930
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 4: Jones on. I'm gonna give this a solid A minus.

1931
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:04,920
Speaker 4: This is a very this is a very very solid ballot.

1932
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:08,000
Speaker 4: That's very very well done. Very well done, Daniel Rodriguez.

1933
01:30:08,040 --> 01:30:11,559
Speaker 1: This ballad is I think this one earlier.

1934
01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, I saw this one a little bit. But I'm

1935
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:15,840
Speaker 4: gonna look over at ten guys. Always good. When you've

1936
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:16,240
Speaker 4: got ten.

1937
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 6: Minus, you go on there minus.

1938
01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:26,559
Speaker 4: Sorry sorry, that's an automatic drop of like two grades. Bonds,

1939
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:30,000
Speaker 4: Clements love it, Helton love it. I really appreciate you

1940
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:31,759
Speaker 4: voting for Tim Lincecum doing.

1941
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 3: My job for me. I'm gladly do it.

1942
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:38,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, I love that you voted for Tim Winscombe. I

1943
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:40,840
Speaker 6: think a ROD. I would have him on my ballot.

1944
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:42,040
Speaker 6: I respect that you have a ROD.

1945
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 4: I'll give you a C because I like you instead

1946
01:30:45,320 --> 01:30:48,360
Speaker 4: of the C minus. But uh, yeah, this scale, after

1947
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 4: all the stuff that's happened this past year and all

1948
01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:53,840
Speaker 4: the stuff that's come out about him and just his

1949
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,599
Speaker 4: case in general, I don't really love anyway. I kind

1950
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:58,120
Speaker 4: of like like to joke with people that you.

1951
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:01,760
Speaker 7: Better hold Manys to this to a sim absolutely so

1952
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 7: obviously much better, you know, totally different players.

1953
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:05,400
Speaker 6: This is.

1954
01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:09,240
Speaker 4: This is a very very good ballot until you voted

1955
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 4: for om Marvis scale and that's why it's a cell.

1956
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:16,320
Speaker 3: Right, let's be my ballot and then we'll finish it off.

1957
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:18,479
Speaker 3: Let's see Kevin's I think Kevin is going to be

1958
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 3: That's my only disclaim, all right, So I.

1959
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 4: Love Wagner, I love Roland Jimmy Rollins. We didn't really

1960
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:31,639
Speaker 4: touch on him. It's interesting, there's something to be said

1961
01:31:31,680 --> 01:31:35,200
Speaker 4: for how great Jimmy Rollins was when wouldn't really get

1962
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:35,800
Speaker 4: my vote.

1963
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:39,640
Speaker 6: This is I'm gonna give this.

1964
01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:42,400
Speaker 4: I love the Jeff Kent vote. The m v P

1965
01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:45,280
Speaker 4: for me pushes him kind of over that Hall of

1966
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:46,320
Speaker 4: very good threshold.

1967
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:49,439
Speaker 6: Not a great, not a great guy though.

1968
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:52,439
Speaker 3: This this is solid Kevin.

1969
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:55,000
Speaker 4: I really like Wagner. I'm gonna give you the same

1970
01:31:55,080 --> 01:31:57,800
Speaker 4: grade I gave Isaac for different reasons, though you have

1971
01:31:57,920 --> 01:31:59,760
Speaker 4: more players. I'm gonna give you a B minus as

1972
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:02,400
Speaker 4: well well, just because I think you voted for some

1973
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:07,639
Speaker 4: guys that aren't just as deserving as others, Like if

1974
01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:10,360
Speaker 4: you voted for Rawlins, you should have voted for Helton,

1975
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, or a Rod, like you

1976
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:14,519
Speaker 4: could have used that vote for a.

1977
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:15,559
Speaker 6: Rod or Helton.

1978
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:18,120
Speaker 3: I wanted to have ten players, I'll just yea.

1979
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,800
Speaker 4: I respect that, and I personally think that everybody should

1980
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 4: vote for ten players because you can't look at any year. Really,

1981
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:26,920
Speaker 4: I don't think you can look at a lot of

1982
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:30,639
Speaker 4: years and say that on a ballot of thirty players

1983
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 4: that there's not ten that are are deserving.

1984
01:32:34,280 --> 01:32:36,040
Speaker 3: And then we'll finish it off with Eli.

1985
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:42,360
Speaker 8: Just quick on Jeff Kevin, like I mean, like as

1986
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:47,960
Speaker 8: Ethan said, not a great person past that decent on offense,

1987
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:49,799
Speaker 8: not good on defense.

1988
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:52,479
Speaker 6: And it's a seventeen year career, so not the longest

1989
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:55,200
Speaker 6: career either. He didn't even get close in my book. Anyways,

1990
01:32:55,240 --> 01:32:55,559
Speaker 6: go ahead.

1991
01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:57,479
Speaker 3: I didn't know John Franco made the whole thing.

1992
01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:00,320
Speaker 1: No, I don't think he did that. That is our

1993
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 1: guy Alex Contras in the chat.

1994
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:02,720
Speaker 4: But I.

1995
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:06,320
Speaker 3: Was gonna say, this is the ballot, this is the

1996
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:06,920
Speaker 3: official one.

1997
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:08,800
Speaker 6: I think, all right, so.

1998
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:09,599
Speaker 3: This is Eli.

1999
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:12,479
Speaker 4: So Bobby Abray you I like the Bobby vote. I

2000
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:15,800
Speaker 4: guess you dropped so so you had Soso last year, Eli, very,

2001
01:33:16,120 --> 01:33:18,799
Speaker 4: that's a good memory. I remember you having Sosa.

2002
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 1: I would have voted for twelve guys if I could

2003
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:24,080
Speaker 1: this year, and that would have included Jeff Ken and

2004
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:24,920
Speaker 1: Sammy Sosa.

2005
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:27,560
Speaker 4: For me, there are there are Like I said, you know,

2006
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:30,920
Speaker 4: making the ballot is an accomplishment of itself, and there

2007
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:33,680
Speaker 4: are guys every year, at least ten every year that

2008
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:37,680
Speaker 4: are worthy of election in one way or another. You

2009
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:39,760
Speaker 4: know that ten guys aren't going to get in every year.

2010
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:42,639
Speaker 4: So it's okay to vote for ten guys because ten

2011
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:43,439
Speaker 4: guys aren't going.

2012
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:43,680
Speaker 3: To get in.

2013
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:47,120
Speaker 6: This is well done, Eli, this is this is really

2014
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:53,040
Speaker 6: well ny. Though I don't understand Ken, like I gotta

2015
01:33:53,080 --> 01:33:53,840
Speaker 6: go back. I'm sorry.

2016
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:55,040
Speaker 3: I just the MVP.

2017
01:33:55,439 --> 01:33:56,679
Speaker 6: It's the m v P Alex.

2018
01:33:56,720 --> 01:33:59,840
Speaker 4: I'm telling you, it's the m v P with the drunk.

2019
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,439
Speaker 4: The other thing is I talked I talked about this

2020
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:08,240
Speaker 4: before with judging positions differently, right, Like, you can't just

2021
01:34:08,400 --> 01:34:10,599
Speaker 4: leave all second basement out of the Hall of Fame

2022
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:13,400
Speaker 4: because it's not a great offensive position. It's not like

2023
01:34:13,479 --> 01:34:14,320
Speaker 4: a sexy position.

2024
01:34:14,600 --> 01:34:14,720
Speaker 5: Right.

2025
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:21,040
Speaker 4: Ken is the greatest power hitting second basement ever probably

2026
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:23,800
Speaker 4: and so you look at that and you kind of

2027
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:27,880
Speaker 4: say there has to be something for that. You have

2028
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:30,760
Speaker 4: to be rewarded as a second baseman for being a

2029
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:35,719
Speaker 4: very good power hitter. Which is why Robinson Cano screwed

2030
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:39,760
Speaker 4: the pooch because he had it, you know what I mean, Dag,

2031
01:34:40,120 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 4: he would have been he was probably one of the

2032
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:44,519
Speaker 4: great maybe the greatest second basement of his generation, and

2033
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:48,720
Speaker 4: he blew it because he tested positive twice. So for me, Kent,

2034
01:34:49,120 --> 01:34:50,920
Speaker 4: just the fact that he was such a great power

2035
01:34:51,000 --> 01:34:53,880
Speaker 4: hitting second basement has the MVP that he beat Barry

2036
01:34:53,880 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 4: Bonds out for.

2037
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:58,360
Speaker 6: Rightfully or not, he overshadowed.

2038
01:34:58,439 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 4: He had a year where he was, in the eyes

2039
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:03,720
Speaker 4: of the writers better than Barry Bonds on the same

2040
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:06,880
Speaker 4: team as Barry Bonds. I just think that he goes

2041
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:08,519
Speaker 4: from Hall of Very Good to Hall of fame.

2042
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:11,320
Speaker 8: Didn't Ted Williams have that four oh nine hitting season

2043
01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:12,880
Speaker 8: and lost and lost the m v P as well.

2044
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 6: So it's gross all over the place. But it's not meaningless.

2045
01:35:18,280 --> 01:35:21,519
Speaker 6: But the m v P is it's it's it's second

2046
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:23,639
Speaker 6: fiddle for me. I didn't think that's fair.

2047
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:24,200
Speaker 3: Eli.

2048
01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:26,960
Speaker 4: I don't think I ever gave you a grade you

2049
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:30,320
Speaker 4: did not know A plus is here because I would.

2050
01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:30,760
Speaker 6: I would.

2051
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:32,920
Speaker 4: If you're gonna vote for Manny, you should vote for

2052
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 4: a Rod. No, I'm gonna give you.

2053
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:38,120
Speaker 6: I'm gonna go.

2054
01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:41,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it's tough.

2055
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:43,920
Speaker 6: I'm gonna give you an A minus.

2056
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:46,920
Speaker 4: It's a really solid I like all the other choices, though,

2057
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:51,400
Speaker 4: Rolling Poppy Obviously, Andrew Jones is great.

2058
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:53,360
Speaker 3: I really like this with.

2059
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:57,439
Speaker 1: He's a guy that I just felt I need more

2060
01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 1: time to really think about it, because obviously with the

2061
01:36:00,880 --> 01:36:02,880
Speaker 1: player there's no doubt, but with me when I'm talking

2062
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:06,880
Speaker 1: about that, that line of Atlex asked me before, and

2063
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:10,040
Speaker 1: I didn't really answer him about disqualification and what kind

2064
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:11,559
Speaker 1: of leads into that. The one thing we didn't mention

2065
01:36:11,560 --> 01:36:15,760
Speaker 1: about a Rod is the reporting that not only did

2066
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 1: he continue to do PDS during biogenesis, that he was

2067
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:22,519
Speaker 1: kind of instrumental in peddling peds to other players and

2068
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:25,920
Speaker 1: like distributing it and like very prominently involved with that

2069
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:30,720
Speaker 1: what was a South Florida based operation, and what he's done,

2070
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:33,759
Speaker 1: He's created a lot of noise for himself since retirement

2071
01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:38,120
Speaker 1: with his rehab, his image rehab, and it's thrown so

2072
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:41,800
Speaker 1: much like in my face that I think you just

2073
01:36:41,880 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 1: need more time. You need to get Five years isn't

2074
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:47,120
Speaker 1: enough to like fully wrap your mind around whether this

2075
01:36:47,240 --> 01:36:50,080
Speaker 1: guy is whether or not he's one of the rare

2076
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:54,760
Speaker 1: cases of those players that doesn't belong that has kind

2077
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 1: of like ruined it for himself. And there's so there's

2078
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:00,320
Speaker 1: so much going on that I think you just more

2079
01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:02,840
Speaker 1: time to really process it all. And it seems that

2080
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:05,679
Speaker 1: the real voters are totally split on that matter.

2081
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:08,040
Speaker 8: So and it's everything that we said too, like you

2082
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:10,439
Speaker 8: can't if you give you know, you can't give a

2083
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:12,160
Speaker 8: guy like that first ballot and put him in the

2084
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:14,880
Speaker 8: same conversation as guys that have gone first ballot that

2085
01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:18,320
Speaker 8: didn't do basically anything wrong in their careers. So it

2086
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:20,840
Speaker 8: can't be first ballot. I don't know if it ever

2087
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 8: will be because of everything that Eli just said. But

2088
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:26,560
Speaker 8: he's interesting for sure, me being me, you know, in

2089
01:37:26,720 --> 01:37:28,680
Speaker 8: years to come, I would probably include him.

2090
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:30,360
Speaker 6: But you can't have him there right now, absolutely not.

2091
01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 7: Fiftel years might not even be enough time to just like,

2092
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:35,360
Speaker 7: you know, think about it. You said five years might

2093
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 7: not be enough, you know.

2094
01:37:36,160 --> 01:37:38,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, and there's there's cases like like like

2095
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:40,200
Speaker 8: we can talk about I mean, I don't want to

2096
01:37:40,240 --> 01:37:41,600
Speaker 8: bring up too much because you're at the end, but

2097
01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:44,000
Speaker 8: you can talk about Pete ROAs, like how much time

2098
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 8: does that have to be? You know, like how much

2099
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:48,200
Speaker 8: time does shoo is Joe Jackson, how much time does

2100
01:37:48,280 --> 01:37:49,560
Speaker 8: that have to be for him to get into the

2101
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:49,920
Speaker 8: Hall of Fame.

2102
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:51,120
Speaker 6: He's even more than Pete Rose.

2103
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:53,840
Speaker 8: So you can talk about so many different things like

2104
01:37:53,960 --> 01:37:57,000
Speaker 8: how long is enough and will it ever be enough?

2105
01:37:57,040 --> 01:37:59,840
Speaker 8: For Alex Rodriguez, And that's something interesting to bring up

2106
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:01,519
Speaker 8: will he ever get in because of what he did?

2107
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:04,599
Speaker 6: And it's it's it's interesting we talked.

2108
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:07,320
Speaker 12: About Jake TV yet, because that's a guy that I

2109
01:38:07,360 --> 01:38:11,560
Speaker 12: don't know. I don't know obviously, I don't think of

2110
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:13,640
Speaker 12: a Hall of Famer. I don't think you'll get all

2111
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:17,000
Speaker 12: the vaults. But he has an interesting career, he has

2112
01:38:17,080 --> 01:38:19,600
Speaker 12: the awards, he does have some of the stats. But

2113
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:21,679
Speaker 12: I just try to get quick thoughts on Jake TV

2114
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:22,840
Speaker 12: or any thought at all.

2115
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:25,400
Speaker 3: I saw his case. I saw it and I kind

2116
01:38:25,439 --> 01:38:26,640
Speaker 3: of liked it a little bit. I don't think he's

2117
01:38:26,640 --> 01:38:27,519
Speaker 3: a Hall of Famer though, but.

2118
01:38:28,280 --> 01:38:33,439
Speaker 7: It was interesting, good on the Just Baseball Media TikTok

2119
01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:34,760
Speaker 7: page and Jake PV.

2120
01:38:35,040 --> 01:38:37,400
Speaker 3: I thought that beforehand. And Jake PV is not a

2121
01:38:37,840 --> 01:38:38,080
Speaker 3: he's not.

2122
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:43,400
Speaker 4: A fame alone opinion, but he's really good, very good

2123
01:38:43,479 --> 01:38:43,960
Speaker 4: something like that.

2124
01:38:45,400 --> 01:38:47,080
Speaker 3: I think the best way to do this is talk

2125
01:38:47,120 --> 01:38:48,479
Speaker 3: about some marlins that could be in the Hall of

2126
01:38:48,520 --> 01:38:50,679
Speaker 3: Fame in a couple of years. And obviously there's Gary Sheffield,

2127
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 3: but then there's Stanton. This is one that you guys

2128
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:59,240
Speaker 3: saw that could be in the Hall of Fame in

2129
01:38:59,280 --> 01:38:59,599
Speaker 3: the middle.

2130
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:01,920
Speaker 7: But to me, we actually we had that discussion about

2131
01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:02,320
Speaker 7: John Carle.

2132
01:39:02,439 --> 01:39:05,000
Speaker 3: We mean, Isaac had the discussion, and then on Twitter

2133
01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 3: there was a nice preview.

2134
01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:08,840
Speaker 7: To that one that it doesn't happen often. But like

2135
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:11,080
Speaker 7: Eli disagreed with me, you guys disagree with me. I

2136
01:39:11,479 --> 01:39:13,160
Speaker 7: just think that if he I don't think it's all

2137
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:15,200
Speaker 7: fame yet, but if he were to continue to have

2138
01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:18,400
Speaker 7: that career Alco Hall of Famer, he would have to

2139
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:20,800
Speaker 7: do so much in a Yankee uniform that he would

2140
01:39:20,840 --> 01:39:23,040
Speaker 7: go in as a Yankee, you know, and all his

2141
01:39:23,240 --> 01:39:25,880
Speaker 7: he's had no postseason with the Marlins. So I think

2142
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:27,240
Speaker 7: that if he, like I said, if he does go

2143
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:29,320
Speaker 7: on to have a helping career, he will have so

2144
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:32,400
Speaker 7: much time in the pin stripes and way more postseason

2145
01:39:32,400 --> 01:39:34,519
Speaker 7: appearances that he would want to go in with the Yankees.

2146
01:39:34,840 --> 01:39:36,880
Speaker 7: Not to mention all, you know, like the bullshit that

2147
01:39:36,920 --> 01:39:38,960
Speaker 7: went out when he left. He's not the best of

2148
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:42,040
Speaker 7: terms leaving Miami, making some subtle comments in his press

2149
01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:43,879
Speaker 7: conferences blah blah blah, he would.

2150
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:44,400
Speaker 3: Go in and say Yankee.

2151
01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:45,840
Speaker 7: I think there's no doubt in my mind that he'd

2152
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:46,960
Speaker 7: go in as a Yankee if he.

2153
01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:49,639
Speaker 8: Isaac he he and we mentioned I mentioned it before

2154
01:39:49,720 --> 01:39:51,839
Speaker 8: he is Andrew Jones without the defense.

2155
01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:54,760
Speaker 6: So right, we talked about Andrew Jones. Did he do

2156
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:55,640
Speaker 6: enough offensively?

2157
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:59,200
Speaker 7: When you said that, Alex, I disagreed. I think John

2158
01:39:59,200 --> 01:40:01,519
Speaker 7: Carlos Sen is a better offensive player than Andrew Johnson's.

2159
01:40:01,880 --> 01:40:03,200
Speaker 6: I don't think he track.

2160
01:40:03,320 --> 01:40:05,280
Speaker 8: He's thirty two. It's an injury pro player. Is he

2161
01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:06,760
Speaker 8: going to do enough in the rest of his career

2162
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:09,200
Speaker 8: to get in? No, I don't think so. So it's

2163
01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:10,680
Speaker 8: gonna be based off of what he's gone so far.

2164
01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:12,080
Speaker 8: And I personally don't think he's done enough.

2165
01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:14,680
Speaker 3: I make the ballot, but he won't. He won't get

2166
01:40:14,720 --> 01:40:14,920
Speaker 3: in it.

2167
01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:16,400
Speaker 5: I think he'll make the ballot.

2168
01:40:16,520 --> 01:40:19,800
Speaker 3: He'll get five hundred. I think the best way to

2169
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:22,799
Speaker 3: look at it is Stan had his best individual seasons

2170
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:24,400
Speaker 3: with the Marlins so far.

2171
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:25,240
Speaker 6: So far?

2172
01:40:25,400 --> 01:40:27,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously, But then he's thirty two.

2173
01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:28,519
Speaker 6: Is he gonna have a better season?

2174
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:32,400
Speaker 3: Probably not the best than the best individ post teams

2175
01:40:32,439 --> 01:40:35,160
Speaker 3: success was with the Yankes obviously made the postseason. He's

2176
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:37,200
Speaker 3: been going farward there because he never made it with

2177
01:40:37,240 --> 01:40:39,760
Speaker 3: the Marlins. But man, Stan, I think should be going

2178
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:41,560
Speaker 3: in as a Marlin. He had fifty nine homers with

2179
01:40:41,600 --> 01:40:43,599
Speaker 3: the Martins. I think that's the career high for him

2180
01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:44,800
Speaker 3: at the moment. I don't think not.

2181
01:40:44,840 --> 01:40:45,439
Speaker 5: Going in at all.

2182
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:48,200
Speaker 8: The only the only hope, and I'll say he goes in,

2183
01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:50,160
Speaker 8: the only hope we have to get this hat into

2184
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:51,400
Speaker 8: the Hall of Fame is Gary Sheffield.

2185
01:40:51,479 --> 01:40:51,720
Speaker 3: That's it.

2186
01:40:51,880 --> 01:40:53,600
Speaker 8: That's the only way that a Marlins hat will go

2187
01:40:53,720 --> 01:40:56,200
Speaker 8: in as of right now. I mean maybe in in

2188
01:40:56,360 --> 01:40:59,360
Speaker 8: you know, thirty twenty years, we can talk about, you know,

2189
01:40:59,479 --> 01:41:00,599
Speaker 8: Josh hasn't junior or something.

2190
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:01,760
Speaker 6: That'd be great, But as.

2191
01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:05,680
Speaker 8: Of right now, the only one boys, the only one

2192
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:09,800
Speaker 8: close right now is is is Gary Sheffield stand And

2193
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:11,719
Speaker 8: I would say John Carlo is a close second.

2194
01:41:13,400 --> 01:41:15,599
Speaker 7: Not close, but okay, I would say he's a close second.

2195
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:17,720
Speaker 3: He's gonna hit five hundred and fifty home runs. The

2196
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:20,680
Speaker 3: only the only other guys that are decently interested. I

2197
01:41:20,760 --> 01:41:23,400
Speaker 3: went through the Baseball Hall of Fame dot org website

2198
01:41:23,479 --> 01:41:25,840
Speaker 3: said future eligibles. The only ones that I saw that

2199
01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:28,479
Speaker 3: were Marlins were Hanley Ramires, Martin Prado, and Miguel Caberro,

2200
01:41:28,479 --> 01:41:30,679
Speaker 3: which won't happen at all future line.

2201
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:33,679
Speaker 4: Candley will be on the ballot, and I think he'll

2202
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:35,960
Speaker 4: get votes he'll be a guy that like survives his

2203
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:39,720
Speaker 4: first ballot or something, probably would go in as a Marlin.

2204
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:41,759
Speaker 3: Right, But he's not gonna get in anyway.

2205
01:41:41,800 --> 01:41:46,360
Speaker 4: But his years Marlins with John Carlow Isaac's point about

2206
01:41:46,360 --> 01:41:49,680
Speaker 4: the fact that his greatest years would have to be

2207
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:52,519
Speaker 4: yet to come for him to get in. But he's

2208
01:41:52,640 --> 01:41:55,559
Speaker 4: probably not gonna top fifty nine right at age thirty two.

2209
01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:59,240
Speaker 4: But his most consistent years would have to be in

2210
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:04,599
Speaker 4: the Yankees uniform. But he he liked it here until

2211
01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:06,519
Speaker 4: the very end when they treated him bad, you know

2212
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:06,880
Speaker 4: what I mean.

2213
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:09,080
Speaker 3: He dis liked it in twenty thirteen. To remember, he

2214
01:42:09,160 --> 01:42:10,599
Speaker 3: went on, all right, I'm pissed off.

2215
01:42:10,760 --> 01:42:14,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, well I would have been pissed off. Dude. He

2216
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:17,080
Speaker 6: good his best year first of all.

2217
01:42:17,160 --> 01:42:20,240
Speaker 4: If he hits five hundred, he's he's in for sure,

2218
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:23,280
Speaker 4: because his career is just good at this point. If

2219
01:42:23,320 --> 01:42:25,519
Speaker 4: he had the five hundred home runs onto his career.

2220
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:28,240
Speaker 4: But he's good enough, and so I think that if

2221
01:42:28,280 --> 01:42:30,200
Speaker 4: he gets a five hundred, which I think he will,

2222
01:42:31,160 --> 01:42:33,400
Speaker 4: if he stays healthy enough, he doesn't even have to

2223
01:42:33,439 --> 01:42:36,160
Speaker 4: stay like fully healthy, like he can stay healthy enough,

2224
01:42:36,400 --> 01:42:38,720
Speaker 4: he can average where he would get five hundred. He's

2225
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:40,320
Speaker 4: going to get to three fifty at the beginning and

2226
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:42,960
Speaker 4: next season I think he's like at like three forty

2227
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:43,599
Speaker 4: seven or something.

2228
01:42:43,680 --> 01:42:44,559
Speaker 3: He's exactly three.

2229
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:48,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, he gets three fifty at the beginning of next year,

2230
01:42:48,360 --> 01:42:49,840
Speaker 4: and then he's got one hundred and fifty to go

2231
01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:52,559
Speaker 4: from there. And if he's hitting them at a thirty

2232
01:42:52,760 --> 01:42:55,240
Speaker 4: home run pace, you know, you do the math.

2233
01:42:55,960 --> 01:42:58,640
Speaker 7: I know one career he has he did have his

2234
01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:00,400
Speaker 7: days as a right fielder in my and you know,

2235
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:02,559
Speaker 7: he was a really dark, pretty darn good right fielder.

2236
01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:03,320
Speaker 3: You know for most of the time.

2237
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:05,519
Speaker 7: He's like Google of finalist a few times and he's

2238
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:07,120
Speaker 7: gonna probably be a DH as a Yankee.

2239
01:43:07,160 --> 01:43:08,960
Speaker 3: So he that's a little help and stay healthy. And

2240
01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 3: you guys see the shape that he's in. He's a

2241
01:43:11,080 --> 01:43:12,160
Speaker 3: walking muscle. This guy.

2242
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:14,800
Speaker 7: He might be someone that hits you know, twenty points

2243
01:43:14,840 --> 01:43:16,960
Speaker 7: at home runs and it was age thirty eight, thirty nine,

2244
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:19,760
Speaker 7: forty season. He could be something like that. Marte and

2245
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:22,960
Speaker 7: him have great same body's just one is smaller than

2246
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:25,400
Speaker 7: the other. And John Carlo I can see him. Maybe

2247
01:43:25,439 --> 01:43:27,599
Speaker 7: he's not the most you know, he's a little injury prone,

2248
01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:30,040
Speaker 7: pretty actually heavily injury prone.

2249
01:43:29,800 --> 01:43:30,880
Speaker 6: And very injury prone.

2250
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:33,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, common I could see.

2251
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:35,519
Speaker 7: Him possibly being a Hall of Famer if he just goes,

2252
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:37,360
Speaker 7: if he just goes on a rampage in New York.

2253
01:43:37,479 --> 01:43:39,559
Speaker 5: But it was a lot of pictures and the Marlins

2254
01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 5: you guys could see in the Hall of Fame because

2255
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:43,280
Speaker 5: there's a lot of you know, a lot of Hinters.

2256
01:43:43,360 --> 01:43:46,200
Speaker 5: Is there any pictures at all that can possibly even

2257
01:43:46,280 --> 01:43:46,880
Speaker 5: remotely And.

2258
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:49,120
Speaker 7: This conversation depresses me for obvious reasons.

2259
01:43:49,120 --> 01:43:51,120
Speaker 3: So if there was a Marlins Hall of Fame, obviously

2260
01:43:51,200 --> 01:43:52,760
Speaker 3: a lot of these guys would make it probably like

2261
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:54,720
Speaker 3: the only thing that we.

2262
01:43:54,720 --> 01:43:56,960
Speaker 8: Can say, Daniel, to answer your question, The only thing

2263
01:43:57,000 --> 01:43:59,719
Speaker 8: that I would say for that is if he keeps

2264
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:02,639
Speaker 8: doing what he's doing and that remains to be seen

2265
01:44:02,680 --> 01:44:04,320
Speaker 8: as Sandy al Contra, And that's a closes.

2266
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:06,760
Speaker 3: I still don't even think. I don't think you'll get in.

2267
01:44:08,200 --> 01:44:10,439
Speaker 3: He's been excellent, but I don't think it's gonna even.

2268
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:12,200
Speaker 7: If he has ten more seasons like the season he

2269
01:44:12,240 --> 01:44:12,720
Speaker 7: had this year.

2270
01:44:12,720 --> 01:44:13,120
Speaker 3: He's the one.

2271
01:44:14,120 --> 01:44:17,240
Speaker 7: I don't think anyone on the young along the way,

2272
01:44:17,439 --> 01:44:19,960
Speaker 7: you know, he's he's never gonna want to say young.

2273
01:44:20,520 --> 01:44:23,479
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone on the roster right now, this

2274
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:28,439
Speaker 3: guy he wasn't.

2275
01:44:28,479 --> 01:44:31,600
Speaker 6: He keeps doing this on this track, he will win

2276
01:44:31,680 --> 01:44:33,200
Speaker 6: a award, for sure, He's going to get it.

2277
01:44:34,240 --> 01:44:37,160
Speaker 8: We talked about, We talked about I think we talked about.

2278
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:39,960
Speaker 8: You picked car Chilling, right, you picked her Chilling?

2279
01:44:40,200 --> 01:44:42,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did. He never want to award, right, I'm

2280
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:43,519
Speaker 3: not that's fine.

2281
01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:47,720
Speaker 7: Giants is going to do Giants, but so yeah, I'm

2282
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:49,080
Speaker 7: not saying that the long.

2283
01:44:49,040 --> 01:44:53,160
Speaker 6: Track hap for that to happen. What I just said happened.

2284
01:44:53,439 --> 01:44:55,680
Speaker 6: I just wanted to give Daniel candidate, Okay, I just

2285
01:44:55,760 --> 01:44:56,639
Speaker 6: wanted to name a name.

2286
01:44:56,760 --> 01:45:00,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know it's not gonna be these guy.

2287
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:03,880
Speaker 4: Already was on a ballot and fell off a couple

2288
01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:04,400
Speaker 4: of years ago.

2289
01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:07,479
Speaker 8: And then you can argue that he would be a

2290
01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:09,280
Speaker 8: dodgery even if he did go or Red Sox, even

2291
01:45:09,280 --> 01:45:11,800
Speaker 8: if he did go in right, So anyways, to give

2292
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:13,160
Speaker 8: him a name, it would be Sandy.

2293
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:14,840
Speaker 6: You have to do a lot to do it, but

2294
01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:16,200
Speaker 6: I think definitely do it.

2295
01:45:16,439 --> 01:45:17,920
Speaker 7: Just to be clear, I'm not saying you wouldn't be

2296
01:45:17,920 --> 01:45:19,559
Speaker 7: all over him because he's not gonna win a say Young,

2297
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:21,679
Speaker 7: I just don't think he's ever gonna win to Sam Unfortunately,

2298
01:45:21,720 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 7: not because of lack of skills or numbers that he's

2299
01:45:23,880 --> 01:45:26,160
Speaker 7: gonna produce. Just this year was one of the best

2300
01:45:26,240 --> 01:45:28,760
Speaker 7: pitching seasons I've ever seen in the Marlin's uniform. You know,

2301
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:31,880
Speaker 7: he didn't get a young vote.

2302
01:45:31,880 --> 01:45:34,880
Speaker 5: Not if he was on the Dodgers, he would get

2303
01:45:34,880 --> 01:45:36,679
Speaker 5: a vote. He was on the other team.

2304
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:37,360
Speaker 3: Right, that's.

2305
01:45:38,840 --> 01:45:43,080
Speaker 4: At least this conversation. Now you're having to stitching game.

2306
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:45,120
Speaker 1: This is a conversation for another day.

2307
01:45:45,320 --> 01:45:46,320
Speaker 3: But I always.

2308
01:45:50,160 --> 01:45:52,960
Speaker 1: Nationally he's still an underrated guy. But it's gone to

2309
01:45:53,040 --> 01:45:55,200
Speaker 1: the point where this our season has been so long

2310
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:58,800
Speaker 1: that I feel like locally he's getting a little bit overrated.

2311
01:45:59,200 --> 01:46:01,360
Speaker 1: And I think you guys, we managed, you guys are

2312
01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:03,840
Speaker 1: projecting things on him that he has not done yet

2313
01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:05,680
Speaker 1: and that I'm not sure he'll ever do.

2314
01:46:06,320 --> 01:46:07,719
Speaker 6: That's for another stream.

2315
01:46:08,040 --> 01:46:11,639
Speaker 3: That's just what I Somehow I just wanted to get

2316
01:46:12,120 --> 01:46:15,040
Speaker 3: the name. Okay, some way, somehow we got Sanduel Contra's

2317
01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:17,400
Speaker 3: name in the Hall of Fame. Talk, but I think

2318
01:46:17,479 --> 01:46:19,360
Speaker 3: this is what we'll happen up. It's the final show

2319
01:46:19,400 --> 01:46:21,559
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty one. It's actually perfect. We have Ethan

2320
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:22,840
Speaker 3: on here. I don't know if you guys have any

2321
01:46:23,000 --> 01:46:26,200
Speaker 3: good stream memories to talk about, because man, we had

2322
01:46:26,240 --> 01:46:28,559
Speaker 3: a lot of dreams every every series, some of them

2323
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:31,360
Speaker 3: were depressed talking about the Marte contract issues. Then we

2324
01:46:31,439 --> 01:46:34,320
Speaker 3: had the trade. I don't know if we've got any

2325
01:46:34,360 --> 01:46:37,559
Speaker 3: possible memories, but I remember that Jeremy tash a stream

2326
01:46:37,640 --> 01:46:39,160
Speaker 3: and we all did the Happy Buyes. That was a

2327
01:46:39,200 --> 01:46:39,800
Speaker 3: pretty good one.

2328
01:46:40,680 --> 01:46:43,320
Speaker 6: I don't know if any stream was a highlight. I mean,

2329
01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:45,360
Speaker 6: that was getting moment for sure.

2330
01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:48,880
Speaker 4: Could definitely couldn't you know. Obviously I've moved on from

2331
01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:51,160
Speaker 4: Fish Stripes now, but twenty twenty one was kind of

2332
01:46:51,200 --> 01:46:54,400
Speaker 4: the year where it all began for me and very

2333
01:46:54,479 --> 01:46:57,800
Speaker 4: thankful for Fresh Stripes for that. And obviously I just

2334
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:00,599
Speaker 4: wanted to just say, since I'm on here, follow at

2335
01:47:00,640 --> 01:47:01,719
Speaker 4: Big Hall Talk on Twitter.

2336
01:47:01,800 --> 01:47:02,400
Speaker 6: That's the podcast.

2337
01:47:02,520 --> 01:47:04,800
Speaker 4: It's the Twitter for my podcast. Make sure to check

2338
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:08,439
Speaker 4: out the podcast. It's available on Spotify. It's available on

2339
01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:10,519
Speaker 4: the podcasts as well.

2340
01:47:10,760 --> 01:47:11,800
Speaker 6: It is a lot of fun.

2341
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:13,560
Speaker 4: I think you guys, if you enjoyed this discussion, you

2342
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:14,240
Speaker 4: would enjoy.

2343
01:47:14,120 --> 01:47:15,000
Speaker 6: My podcast as well.

2344
01:47:15,360 --> 01:47:17,240
Speaker 4: I hope that you all will check it out. Thank

2345
01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:20,080
Speaker 4: you for always supporting you fellas. You guys have all

2346
01:47:20,160 --> 01:47:22,519
Speaker 4: been great to Big Hall Talk and to me as

2347
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:25,680
Speaker 4: as well. And yeah, if you guys are out there

2348
01:47:25,720 --> 01:47:27,439
Speaker 4: and you enjoyed this kind of discussion, you like the

2349
01:47:27,479 --> 01:47:29,719
Speaker 4: Hall of Fame, you think it's an interesting topic, definitely

2350
01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:31,080
Speaker 4: make sure to check out Big Hall Talk.

2351
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:33,639
Speaker 3: Thanks for trust me. I did not know anything about

2352
01:47:33,680 --> 01:47:35,479
Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame until I started listening to your podcast.

2353
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:37,920
Speaker 3: That's the only way I know about most of these

2354
01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:40,640
Speaker 3: guys and the points that you know, you guys are

2355
01:47:40,720 --> 01:47:42,960
Speaker 3: making out here. So yeah, I think it's time to

2356
01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:44,840
Speaker 3: end it. Final show of twenty twenty one, going out

2357
01:47:44,840 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 3: with a bang. Hall of Fame. We talked about a lot.

2358
01:47:47,000 --> 01:47:49,760
Speaker 3: We'll see you guys next week Wednesday. Eli, I don't

2359
01:47:49,760 --> 01:47:51,679
Speaker 3: know if is it Jeopardy next week?

2360
01:47:52,120 --> 01:47:54,400
Speaker 1: You're going back to Jeopardy and it's less week, It's

2361
01:47:54,479 --> 01:47:56,600
Speaker 1: less than six days from now. That's the beauty of

2362
01:47:56,720 --> 01:47:58,479
Speaker 1: having to push this back as much as we did

2363
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:00,320
Speaker 1: is that the next one is sneaking up on us

2364
01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:04,719
Speaker 1: quicker than ever. So that's gonna be January fifth, seven pm, YouTube, Twitter, Twitch.

2365
01:48:05,360 --> 01:48:05,439
Speaker 3: Uh.

2366
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:08,719
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna do like forty questions. It's gonna

2367
01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:11,600
Speaker 1: be more questions than ever. You're gonna have Daniel Lvarez

2368
01:48:11,680 --> 01:48:12,639
Speaker 1: as a reigning champ.

2369
01:48:12,800 --> 01:48:13,720
Speaker 6: It's gonna be there.

2370
01:48:14,040 --> 01:48:16,000
Speaker 3: I'm coming on. I'm coming on next week.

2371
01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:18,800
Speaker 1: That's right on the Yeah, you haven't been on yet.

2372
01:48:19,160 --> 01:48:22,560
Speaker 1: We had Raman and he got booted pretty quickly. He

2373
01:48:22,640 --> 01:48:23,479
Speaker 1: finished in the negative.

2374
01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:26,000
Speaker 3: So I think I need to make a I need

2375
01:48:26,040 --> 01:48:30,360
Speaker 3: to make a big comeback this. Yeah, Kevin got booted too. No, no, no,

2376
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:32,479
Speaker 3: I have to I have to get negative twice to

2377
01:48:32,520 --> 01:48:35,639
Speaker 3: get booted. I know I got. I finished negative five thousand.

2378
01:48:36,040 --> 01:48:39,400
Speaker 3: It was pretty bad. Yeah, it was like it was

2379
01:48:40,320 --> 01:48:44,080
Speaker 3: talk from the two thousand and three But anyways, from Eli, Daniel,

2380
01:48:44,160 --> 01:48:47,360
Speaker 3: Alex Carver, Isaac Zoo, Ethan Badowski. We'll see the next

2381
01:48:47,400 --> 01:48:51,080
Speaker 3: one fish Strip Jeopardy next Wednesday, seven pm, Go fish Piece.

2382
01:48:52,040 --> 01:49:04,920
Speaker 5: About to see busk