WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 181 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.120 All media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.040 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.600 Good morning podcast fans, and welcome to it could happen here. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.960 It's me James today and I'm joined by my friend 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:36.560 and colleague Garrison Davis Hige. 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:37.640 Hello. 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.839 Hey, So what I want to talk about today is 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:43.320 a little piece I wrote. I wrote it on my Patreon, 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.600 but I want to kind of discuss it here, read 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.120 it to you and talk about it about what we 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:50.479 talk about when we talk about immigration. So if he 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.840 recently sent me an Associated Press piece on the Daddy 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.240 and Gap, and the piece was reflecting on the lost 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:00.920 of economic opportunity for the MBRA people who had previously sold, 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:05.560 as you heard in my series right products services accommodation 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.320 to migrants coming through a Garyan gap. But if you 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.000 read that whole piece you'd never know they were Ember 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.679 because the word Embur doesn't occur once in the piece, right, 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.319 you'd never know that the Ember people existed. They never 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:23.800 appear in the story. Instead. The ap which is currently 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.399 going toe to toe with the Trump administration on whether 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:28.440 it should call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.839 America or not, and was ejected from the White House 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:34.160 Press Pool at one point for refusing to call it 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:38.840 the Gulf of America, used the phrase comarca Indigenous Lands 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:44.320 in its reporting, which I don't know where this came from. 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.520 It has kind of a strange capitalization. If you were 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:49.800 just reading the piece, you might think that that was 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:51.640 the name of the comarca, like that it was a 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.720 proper noun, but it's not. The commark is like I 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.080 guess you could. You could reughquate that to an American state. 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.800 It's like an administrative division of Panama. The name of 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:06.240 the comarca is Embera Unan, but that doesn't appear anywhere 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.200 in the appiece, and you could to be clear, Like 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.959 I understand that some reporters don't speak Spanish. I understand 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:15.919 that some reporters, like you know that they are not 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.080 like particularly expertly given region. Neither am I that was 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:20.960 my first time in Panama, But like this is something 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.000 you could find out on Google Maps, right. 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.040 It's not unique to the AP. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.120 It happens all the time, right, and I want to 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.280 talk about that today because it happens at the US 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.880 is southern border too. One of the reasons that I 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.560 wanted to go to the Dallian was because I felt 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.960 like the Emberda story was not being told when people 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.200 talked about the Darian Gap. When they're mentioned at all, 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.160 it's kind of in passing or not as people who 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.440 have agency, right, And even I think these stories about 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.320 like the lack of income that they have off to 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.080 migrants leaving kind of strip them in a of agency 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.040 in the way that they're told. When people talk about 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:02.120 the Darien Gap in media, they kind of use this 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:06.800 heart of darkness construction. Obviously it's justed Comrade novel, but 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.600 like this idea that like it's where the wild things are, 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:14.920 I don't know, like it strikes me as very almost orientalist. 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:16.840 Yeah, orientalist is what I was going to say. 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.639 Yeah, And it's like it completely discounts that there are 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.320 thousands of people who live there who've raised their families there, 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.560 Their children play fucking basketball there, right. They spend their 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.840 whole life there, and they bury their elders there, and 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:32.640 they have done for thousands of years. 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:34.839 For them, it's their home, right. 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.120 And I understand that the jungle could be scary, and 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.800 I think anyone who's listened to my series will will 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.839 understand that, Like the jungle was scary for me sometimes, 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:47.480 and it could be a very harsh environment. But if 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.640 you're someone who belongs there, if you're comfortable there, it 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:52.920 can also be home, and it could be beautiful and 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.960 it could be bountiful. And I think the same thing 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:57.880 is true of the mountains and deserts and rivers that 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.920 make up the USA southern border. As it can kill people, 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.360 I'm well aware of that, But for the people who 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.840 call it home, the desert is somewhere that contains their 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:12.280 memories and their sacred spaces, their childhood recollections, and the 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:13.600 remains of their ancestors. 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:13.880 Right. 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:18.160 And the emission of indigenous perspective is something that we 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.080 saw again when CHRISTI Genom decided to waive a number 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.520 of laws in order to facilitate faster construction of the 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:24.080 border wall. 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:26.520 So I want to pud that. 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.640 Again the AP coverage there the AP and again they're 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.479 far from unique in this, right, Lots of other outlets 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.440 did this too. They seem to have only engage with 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.880 the DHS press release as opposed to the actual proclamation 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.360 by knowing, which you can find in the federal register. Right, 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.559 So the press release only focused on the environmental laws 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.039 she was waving, DHS said, and I quote to cut 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:55.480 through bureaucratic delays. DHS is waving environmental laws, including the 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.640 National Environmental Policy Act, that could store vital products for 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.200 months or even years. This waver a clears the path 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.520 that are rapid deployment of physical barriers where they're needed most, 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:09.320 reinforcing our commitment to national security and the rule of law. 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.000 The rule of law thing kind of made me laugh 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.560 as they were like, here we are waving like a 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.520 dozen or so laws. But I'm not a big rule 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.800 of law person, so I guess, like that's fine. It 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:25.080 seems that almost every outlet though, like that's what they 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.919 read and that's what they ran with, like that they're 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.760 waving these environmental laws, and I think that can sometimes 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.719 be this like we still see this all the time 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.520 in the legacy press, like when they talk about environmental laws, 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.680 it's this idea that it's like some kind of like 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.160 people who want to protect the flowers and the plants, 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.200 and like that it's not that serious, you know, and 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.159 that like these environmental laws are something that's not that 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:49.840 are nice but not necessary. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.040 Yeah, And like some of. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.839 These environmental laws, like specifically the ones that regulate water, 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.320 will determine the future of places like California, like and 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.359 oviously places south of the border, right the water doesn't 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.000 know where the border is. And like in the previous 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.400 Trump administration, they wave some environmental laws, including ones about floodwater, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.440 which that combined with the expedited way which they built 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.360 the border wall, I guess, led to them not putting 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.440 floodgates in part of the wall, which then led to 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:21.000 the wall damming up with like dead trees and dead 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:25.039 cacti right when it rained heavily, and then the wall 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.279 becoming a barrier to water, and then the wall getting 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.640 broken or washed away, right because it didn't have like 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.039 sluice gates so they could open to let the water out. 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.200 The AP went to someone called Earth Justice for comment, 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:39.400 and to their credit, that person said quote waving environmental, 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.920 cultural preservation and good governance laws that protect clean air, 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.960 clean water. Say if God precious cultural resources and preserve 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.359 vibrant ecosystems of biodiversity will only cause further harm to 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:53.200 our border communities and ecosystems. That person is the only 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:57.000 person who mentioned the cultural damage it's been done here, 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.560 unless a reader themselves that the Federal Register isn't linked 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.280 in any of these pieces, right, it really is. I 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.080 try and link to it when we talk about something 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:10.200 in executive disorder. But unless you've found that yourself, you 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:14.640 wouldn't know that. Along with waving these environmental laws, and 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.800 like I've said, those are important, they also wave something 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.320 called the Native American Grave Protection and Repatriation Act, according 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.560 to the Department of the Interior. I was kind of 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.160 surprised this was still up on their website. Actually, I 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.200 thought this might have been purred, so like a lot 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:28.880 of maybe it. 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:33.000 Just maybe it's just like screwed it by Yeah. 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.840 Yeah, like well, I mean no, apparently no one fucking 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.800 talks about it, so yeah, maybe they got away with it, 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:39.840 you know, Like it's always funny going on government websites 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:43.000 now being like oh it's gone, like finding dead links 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.240 to so much even in stories I've written in like 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.960 twenty twenty that those links are dead now. NAGRA requires 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:53.440 any federally funded entity to return human remains, sunery possessions, 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.240 objects of cultural patrimony, and sacred objects to the deceased 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.480 persons and their descendants by and I'm quoting for website 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:05.560 now consulting with lineal descendants, Indian tribes and Native Hawaiian organizations, 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:09.360 or Native American human remains and other cultural items, Protecting 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.400 and planning for Native American human remains and other cultural 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.280 items that may be removed from federal or tribal lands, 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.480 Identifying and reporting all Native American human remains and other 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:23.560 cultural items in inventories and summaries of holdings or collections, 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.960 and giving prior notice to repatriating or transferring human remains 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:29.520 and other cultural items. 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.520 So the waiver allows. 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:36.720 Them not to do these things right crucially, in the 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.319 context of border wall construction, what allows them to do 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.839 is not to conduct an archaeological survey before they dig 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:46.320 the border wall. And again, like, I don't know why 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.720 this isn't something the legacy media isn't concerned about. It 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.360 wasn't in twenty twenty either right when they started doing this, 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:58.320 they were blasting areas where something called miden soil was found. 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.040 Mid and soil is soil or that contains evidence of 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.160 cremated human remains. Right. I wrote a piece in twenty 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:09.199 twenty for Sierra about this. And normally before these digs 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.720 there would be an archaeological survey done by a tribal 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:15.760 representative would be there to take part in that. Right, 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.959 that would take time and it would delay construction. Instead, 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.640 right now, the construction will continue without considering a damage 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.600 done to the cultural patrimony and ancestral remains of the 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.400 Kumii people here in San Diego, whose homeland spanned both 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.560 sides at the border, and who were here long before 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:35.079 the US or Mexico was talking of. I can't think 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:36.199 of a good fucking ad pivot. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.280 Yeah, there really is no good at pivot for. 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:38.920 Stuff like this. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:41.079 No, there's not. 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:56.360 We're just going to do adverts now and we are back. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.840 The Cumi not the only indigenous people who homelands have 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:05.560 been significantly permanently damaged by the construction of border barriers. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.960 Right further east, in the homelands of the Tornada people, 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.760 where I've spent a lot of time. Wall construction has 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:16.600 destroyed Sacred Cuaro's. Soguaro's. That's the big cactus, like when 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:21.520 you think of a cactus, right, like the cactus Yeah, yeah, 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:23.439 yeah yeah with the two arms. You could put a 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.400 little hat on that cactus if you wanted to, maybe 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.120 give it like a little six shooter and it would 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.920 look like it was a cowboy. Yeah, it's the it's 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.080 literally the cactus. It's in all the Western films that 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.559 were filmed out at Old Tucson there. Yeah, we used 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.000 to ride our bikes from the passcalt Yaki Reds to 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.520 the place where they filmed all those Western films. That 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.840 that was our loop. A very very weird experience that place. 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.640 It's like a one day I will write my fucking 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.320 five part documentary about the myth of the Old West. 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.240 But you can find it. You can find it there 0:10:54.280 --> 0:11:00.319 in Tucson. The Soguaro's people aren't aware of orded the 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.840 highest respect as ancestors by Otam people, and they play 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.640 an important role in ceremonial and culinary traditions that have 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.920 been kept alive despite centuries of genocide and assimilationist policies 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.679 from state and local government. Under the Biden administration, the 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:18.760 Government Accountability Office wrote a report about damage done by 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:23.160 border wall construction. Again for now, this is on the 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.000 internet and I will link it in the show notes. 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:27.560 I don't know how long that will remain on the internet. 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.320 It's a pdf, so it's going to be out and 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.959 about that. It can't be taken down, but maybe it 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.400 won't be on government websites. They highlighted the case of 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.640 Monument Hill, which was damaged by explosives in the previous 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:43.560 Trump administration, despite being a sacred place for Odham and 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.400 the site of ceremonies conducted by the Here said Odham, 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.480 who are their ancestors. Quito Bakito Springs, which is a 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.480 sacred site and oasis in the Sonoran Desert and it's 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.240 a really special place, was irreparably damaged in the last 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.360 Trump administration, including the destruction of a burial site that 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.720 the Tripe had sought to protect. In some cases, the 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.520 Biden administration made this worse. One of those was that 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:11.120 on entering office, Biden said they were going to build 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.839 not one more foot of border war in twenty twenty one. Right, 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.840 he was full of shit. They built lots more border wall, 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.640 but they didn't put a pause on some of the contracts, right. 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:21.480 It sort of they finished some of them and they 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.240 were like, oh, we can't go back on this federal funding. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:26.960 Who's has not been an issue for Donald Trump for years. 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:31.040 Later they were in Congress approved it, so we have 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.800 to pay it, which was great. But the bits that 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:39.160 they were able to cut included a program that had 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:42.559 people taking care of so that they attempted to transplant 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:47.080 the Saguaros. They didn't just cut down because they were sacred, 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.240 right and they're very old. They wanted to take them 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:50.880 somewhere else, and this was part of sort of the 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.040 agreement that they came to. Unfortunately, the Biden administration cut 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.760 the funding for the people who were taking care of 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.600 them in their new location, so nearly all of them died. 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:02.680 They were being watered and stuff to get them settled 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:08.520 into their new route structure, and because of by administration 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.000 cutback funding, it stopped them from being watered, and so 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.160 many of them died in areas where barriers were built, 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.960 but drainage culverts were not finished. The colverts were never 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.520 install so that was the flooding I was talking about. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:20.800 Earlier. 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.960 Right, sometimes they just went ahead and built war that 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.079 when they build the wall, it comes in about fifty 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.320 foot sections, and they truck those out there and like 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.199 just deput them on the ground flat and pull them 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.720 up right, and they dig a foundation. They mix the 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.600 sand made concrete and put the war sections up. But 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.280 then they I guess it's my understanding that in the 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.080 end of the last Trump administration, Trump made a claim 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.920 in a debate about the number of miles of wall 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:50.080 that had been built, and that claim was largely inaccurate, 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.800 but they sort of started trying to expost facto justify 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:58.400 it by claiming repairs were miles of war right, And 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.800 in the final months of the Trump administration, maybe like from 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:06.880 late summer to January, it was certainly to November, they 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:10.400 would really speed running wall construction. And part of that 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.600 was putting sections up where there should have been culverts 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.280 and just putting regular wall sections there and then attempting 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.720 to come back later and do the culverts, which because 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.200 of the funding pause. 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:20.400 It didn't do. 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.400 So then we've seen a huge change in how the 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:27.000 desert drains, right, because it backs up at the or 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.560 the detritus or the dead branches and stuff get caught 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.240 in the wall, and then the water gets sort of 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.240 pushed along the wall until it finds a weak point 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.400 to undermine it, I'll push it over. Very little of 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:40.440 this gets reported at all. Right, Occasionally there are media 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:42.920 moments when everyone wants to report on the borders damage 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.400 to Indigenous communities. We had one in twenty twenty when 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.720 they started destroying segualas at the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:55.200 But these appear to be when they just pop up 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.320 like this, it seems like it's without context or precedent, right, 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:03.200 And when outlets ignore Indigenous people for ninety percent of 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:07.960 their border reporting, it doesn't give the context it's necessary 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:13.000 to explain these incidents, which are outrageous in decades of 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.440 policy which has been outrageous. If our listeners are not 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.760 aware that the border is on Native land, all of it, 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:24.080 just like all of America, right, it can seem confusing 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.160 for them, right when they see something like Organ Pipe 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.040 Cactus National Monument and they think, well, that's not on 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.920 a reservation, because a lot of outlets don't give that context. 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.680 Right that obviously, reservations not contain all spaces that are 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.640 sacred to Indigenous people, and like a reservation is a 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:44.560 legal not a cultural construct, it can seem alien to them. 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.160 And lots of these spaces that are being military that 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:52.680 will be militarized under it's Roosevelt Reservation declaration that the 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.880 reservations are not militarized under that, but spaces that are 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.400 sacred to people still will be. But because are reporting 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.480 so often lacks that context, people don't understand it. The 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.840 admission of tribal lands was again like missing in lots 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.400 of pieces on the Roosevelt Reservation right Washington Post Arctic 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.280 on the Rust Reservation, the one that broke the story. 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:15.800 It doesn't contain the word tribal lands at all, right, 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.960 it doesn't mention the fact that these areas are not 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:33.200 part of the militarization proclamation. The problem here isn't just 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.520 the ongoing a rage or Indigenous people. It's a failure 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.280 in basic journalistic practice. In my mind, right, we can't 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:44.760 properly understand borders unless we acknowledge the people they impact. 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.040 There's no way I could have experienced dairying Gap in 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.040 the way that I did if it wasn't for the 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.680 Mbire people who literally let me live in their homes. 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:53.160 Right. 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.640 Without the same generosity that they showed to me, the 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.880 people crossing would die in much greater numbers. And it's 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:05.480 precisely because migrants to arrive in indigenous villages and not 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.840 in like a government Panama, that a system exists where 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.320 they're ferried up river on those pit agworks that are 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.560 reports it on, right, And it's precisely because they enter 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.160 government custody at Las blancas a place at the ap 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.360 court of Riverport, by the way, which I mean, it's 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.960 one of the more miserable places that one can end up. 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.840 It's terrible, and calling it a riverport fundamentally under cells 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.679 how appalling, and it's what happens to people. People are 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.800 stalled there for months, right, And that is because they 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.000 are entering the system of bureaucracy, the system of the state, 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:42.919 the system of fees and identification papers and all these things. 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.879 More importantly, I think we can't understand the relatively new 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:51.000 and invasive nature of borders, especially borders with physical barriers, 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.879 without acknowledging the much much longer history of indigenous people 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.280 moving freely through these areas. Like I said, it's much people, 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.320 it's water and wildlife in all cases, the damage down 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:05.200 will be unforeseen and likely irreparable. But if we only 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:07.800 treat the border of the rhetorical thing like something to 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.480 discuss in congress, not a physical place, then we miss 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:13.960 what's really happening, and we miss the people it really impacts. 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.600 I don't want to pick solely on that app it's 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.000 a tendency in the whole US right where the overwhelming 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.440 media narrative eraises the existence of indigenous people unless it's 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.040 some kind of novelty or trope through which they can 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.400 be deployed. The Darrect example was a particularly stark one 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.159 to me because I spend theatle amount of time there, 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.280 and I obviously have a great deal of affection for 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.720 the people who looked after me. But as more and 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:38.680 more laws are waived, both in terms of border wall 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.640 construction and human rights, more damage will be done. It's 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.640 already the case that people who speak indigenous languages tend 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.840 to have much worse outcomes in the US immigration system right. 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.000 I've seen this first hand, Like it could be very 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:56.840 difficult when someone arrives and they speak, you know, an 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:01.040 indigenous language from Mexico, from Peru, from these places where 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.159 like the people speak these digits languages their first language, 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.239 and it's hard for them to very hard for them 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.359 to get legal representation, right even US citizens. 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.399 Like that incident from just a few weeks ago with 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.080 that nineteen year old who was born in the state 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:20.960 of Georgia but primarily spoken indigenous language was like put 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:22.920 into ice attention overnight. 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.639 Yeah, like, which I think kind of these two narratives 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.320 sort of play into each other, right, Like, because indigenous 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.359 people don't exist so much in so much coverage, it 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.280 can be much easier for the state to make them disappear, 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.040 right like that guy. 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.680 Well yeah, and literally being arrested in charge with like 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.440 like entry as an unauthorized alien. 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:48.000 Yeah, like absolutely, And it's happened to indigenous people who 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:50.600 are like indigenous to the United States, right like yeah, 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:52.919 and it will continue to I think I've heard some 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.680 stuff about happening on a Navajorez relatively recently. Obviously, I 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.680 should say if that has happened to you or someone 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.560 you know, you can reach out to us. Call Zone 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:06.120 tips at proton dot me. And like, I know that 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.440 there are lots of big border reporters, that big outlets 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:13.520 who fucking hate me, And I really don't care. I 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.760 just want to, Like, any one person coming into this 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:18.959 country who needs a bottle of water is more important 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.439 to me than all of their collective opinions, right, Like 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.160 my job is not to make them happy. My job 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:26.800 is to tell the stories of the people who come 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.840 into this country and often stuffer greatly to do so. 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:33.280 I care more about them than like my ability to 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.359 be objective, which you know, I don't think we should 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:40.160 be objective in these situations, and like I want to 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:45.760 kind of end on this idea of objectivity, because objectivity 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.520 I don't know. I'm glad that the Washington Post is 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.240 writing a story about a Venezuelan teacher who got deported today. 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.800 I'm glad that they're giving these people human faces now. 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.040 But it's fucking hard to look at the reporters who 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.280 wouldn't drive half an hour down a dirt road to 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.800 come and see people in concentration camps when Biden was president, 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:05.560 because I don't know, they were worried about getting their 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.720 rental car dirty, or they don't speak Spanish, or the 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.080 desert's cold at night. Like I don't know why people 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:15.320 didn't come. I suspect it's because their commitment to writing 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.680 about migrants is more a commitment to doing it when 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.320 it makes money than it is to doing it because 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:24.000 it's the right thing to do. And like, when we 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.400 write these stories now about deportations being terrible, they seem 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.520 to pop up without context, right, and the context of 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.480 how these people came into this country and the amount 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.080 that they were forced to suffer by choice by the 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:41.360 Biden administration in twenty twenty three, it's completely absent from 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:45.439 these stories, right, Like, the reason folks, some folks that 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.639 are choosing to leave is because what they've seen of 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.600 the US government a week in an outdoor attention camp 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:54.160 where the government didn't even bring them food or water, right, 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:56.520 and then their passage through this system which doesn't give 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.040 them a pathway to permanent residency, which doesn't give them 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:02.480 a pathway to citizen, and then they see these deportations. Like, 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.159 from the migrant perspective, this is just a sort of 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:07.960 steady escalation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.159 what's happening now is the same as what happened before. 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:14.000 It's worse, it's considerably worse, and it's abhorrent. But like 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:16.880 that doesn't mean that we shouldn't tell the truth about 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.480 what happened before either. And it doesn't mean that we 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.680 should ignore the physical border as well as the sort 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.080 of rhetorical and internal and technical border, right, all these 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:31.680 things that we're seeing now, And like the way that 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:34.280 borders have worked in this country is that it's like 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:36.760 a ratchet that only moves to the right, and the 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:39.160 Republicans move it to the right, and the Democrats never 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.760 move it back, and until we hold them accountable for this, 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:47.080 it will continue to get worse. Like, the Democrats completely 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:51.000 ceded the narrative on migration under the Biden administration, and 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.760 that's part of why they lost right. Rather than like 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.680 making an argument that these people have a right to 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:01.400 come here, that many of them are a massive benefit 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:03.719 to our society, and it doesn't matter whether they are 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:06.080 or not, they still deserve to be treated with dignity 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:10.000 and respect, and even if you're a big la law 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:13.320 in order person, like according to international and United States law. 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:15.480 They didn't do that. It didn't treat them according to 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:17.520 international life to States law, nor did they make an 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.600 argument that it's morally right to do so. And that's 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:22.120 one of the reasons they lost right. 0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:23.400 This is why. 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.720 I really think that we need to be conscious in 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:29.239 our media consumption and be conscious as journalists of like 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:33.600 why we do this, because I'm finding it really hard 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:37.040 to see this outpouring of care from people who I 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:40.159 know didn't care when they were shivering little babies in 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.080 the desert, from people who could have said something, could 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:45.959 have done something right, like this could have stopped earlier 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:50.320 if there were big, major legacy media op ed. You know, 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:53.680 the pictures of shivering babies were like on the nine 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:57.439 o'clock news, right coming into people's houses every night. This 0:23:57.480 --> 0:23:59.640 wouldn't have lasted for as long as it did. People 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:03.359 wouldn't stuff that, people wouldn't have died. But because I 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:05.879 guess Joe Biden was in ourviice, it didn't matter. And 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:08.280 I'm glad that people care now, don't get me wrong, 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.400 but like I want especially listeners to think about holding 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:14.280 those people accountable to caring when it's not profitable, caring 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:17.040 when it's not convenient, and our listeners have to be fair. Right, 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:21.200 We raised almost fifty thousand dollars for migrants in the desert, 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:24.359 and that was fantastic, But yeah, I still think we 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.159 do immigration reporting wrong. I still think for most outlet. 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:32.080 That's because they treat migrants as a rhetorical device, not 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:35.040 as people in the same way that they are, and 0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:37.880 that upsets me and I wanted to write about it, 0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:41.480 so I have. I guess that's all I've got. It's 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:45.600 not the best ending. If you are somebody who wants 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:48.280 to get in touch, right, like I said, especially with 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:52.240 regard to immigration activities, on reservations or indigenous people, you 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:55.639 can reach us at cool Zone tips at proton dot me. 0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:57.760 If there's other stuff that you want to share with us, 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:00.480 you can do it there too. It is end to 0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.880 end encryptid only if you send from another proton email address. 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:06.160 And that's all I got. 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:31.679 Welcome Jack, it happened here a podcast about transgender I 0:25:31.720 --> 0:25:35.159 am your host, Na Wong. Now we have spent a 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:38.040 lot of time on this show covering a bunch of 0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:40.680 really bad stuff and also maybe some cool stuff. We've 0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:42.600 had some cool trans things on this show too. We're 0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:45.720 gonna have some more in like the coming weeks. But 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:50.040 it is a bleak time to be trans really anywhere 0:25:50.080 --> 0:25:52.359 in the world. The United States is also pretty fucking 0:25:52.359 --> 0:25:55.920 bad right now. But in the words of Lengths and Hees, 0:25:56.000 --> 0:25:58.640 between the darkness and the dawn, the rises a red star. 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:01.320 And one of the things that that has happened as 0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:03.720 this sort of like you know, sort of the crisis 0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:08.159 of transphobia and the crisis of the genocide and the 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:11.360 sort of multiple genocides the government's doing, and as sort 0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:16.760 of transphobia as like an institutional state discourse has like solidified. 0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:17.320 Is that. 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:22.359 I mean, honestly, multiple generations of trans journalists have really 0:26:22.480 --> 0:26:25.480 kind of like risen to the forefront. And yeah, we've 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:27.640 we've been We've been seeing a bunch of extremely cool 0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:30.520 reporting and a bunch of very very good work from 0:26:30.640 --> 0:26:33.840 a bunch of like more radical trans journalists. And that's 0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:36.960 a thing that kind of like there's been so few 0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:40.200 of us for so long and suddenly there's several and 0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:43.560 it ripped and I'm really happy about it. And with 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:46.119 me to talk about sort of, you know, what transjournalism 0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:50.800 is like in this moment, how it functions and you know, 0:26:50.840 --> 0:26:52.880 and how how how it can be sustained going forward 0:26:52.960 --> 0:26:56.000 and why it's sort of important is David Forbes, who 0:26:56.040 --> 0:26:58.959 is the editor of the Asheville Blade and also an 0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:02.560 independent journalist. Mira Lasine, who is a freelance journalist who 0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:05.800 recently launched the outlet Free Radical and medi Cast again, 0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:08.560 who's an independent journalist and the creator of medi cast News. 0:27:09.000 --> 0:27:11.920 All of you welcome to the show. Thank you, hap 0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:12.399 Byby on. 0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:13.679 You're having me. 0:27:14.440 --> 0:27:16.960 Yeah, I'm ecstatic to have all of you on to 0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:19.800 get to talk about this because I don't know, I 0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:21.800 guess the place that I want to start is, like 0:27:21.920 --> 0:27:26.600 I I remember this kind of like period in like 0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:29.800 twenty twenty four, twenty twenty twenty four where it was like, 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:32.920 I mean, it still is really bleak for trans journalism 0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:34.000 in a lot of ways, but like, you know, I'm 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:36.400 just in transmedia in general. Like I was just watching 0:27:37.720 --> 0:27:41.320 like the space that had been opened a little bit 0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:43.560 in like the twenty tens for there to be trans 0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:46.119 people in media, just like closing, you know, And like 0:27:46.119 --> 0:27:48.959 I've been watching like pretty immediately around me, like I've 0:27:49.000 --> 0:27:51.679 been watching the number of like transforms, especially like non 0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:55.239 white transferms just like disappearing from media. And it was, 0:27:55.320 --> 0:27:57.160 you know, it was it was like watching the stars 0:27:57.160 --> 0:28:00.000 disappear from this guy and the thing for the stars 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:03.320 disappearing from the skies. You know, there's you don't notice 0:28:03.520 --> 0:28:05.600 it's unless you're looking at them, in which case the 0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:08.600 light has fucking gone forever and it was this really 0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:12.520 really bleak thing. But also, you know, as it's happening, 0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:15.040 and as we've been sort of like resisting this, I've 0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:17.119 been getting to watch like the stars go back on 0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:20.320 in the sky and like watching new like people emerge, 0:28:20.359 --> 0:28:22.399 and watching people who've been doing cool work for a 0:28:22.440 --> 0:28:25.760 really long time sort of like come out into the 0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:30.880 open and like get more sort of national recognition. And Yeah, 0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:33.040 I don't know, I guess, so I guess that's the 0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:35.760 sort of place I wanted to start, is just talking 0:28:35.760 --> 0:28:38.280 a little bit about like what it's like to be 0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:39.720 fucking doing journalism right now. 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:43.080 Because Jesus Christ, I'll go ahead and start. I've been 0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:46.560 a journalist for over twenty years. And for those who 0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:49.040 might be wondering, since you refer to transfems, I am 0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:51.840 a transwoman. I U she the pronounce I also like 0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:55.959 the name David so. But I have seen it kind 0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:57.760 of wax and lane. I've seen it go up and down, 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:01.600 and to some degree, what we're facing now it is 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:04.760 a much worse and escalating version, but it is also 0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:08.320 some of what I've seen trans journalists face period. I 0:29:08.400 --> 0:29:11.960 came out in publicly in twenty sixteen. I started my 0:29:12.000 --> 0:29:18.200 transition in twenty fifteen, and immediately my freelance career basically 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:20.680 died overnight. And it wasn't like I was writing for 0:29:20.760 --> 0:29:24.960 you know, right wing outlets or something. And you know, honestly, 0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:27.800 the fact is, and this is I think unusual among 0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:33.120 trans journalism because a lot of it admirably focuses on national, 0:29:33.440 --> 0:29:36.560 international level stuff because what we face is so vast. 0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:39.440 But if it had not been for the local support, 0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:41.680 because the Blade, a lot of the Blades subscribers are 0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:43.960 local that we certainly welcome people to subscribe from wherever 0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:46.280 they are, you know, I would be homeless, and there's 0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:47.800 a good chance I wouldn't be talking to you all 0:29:47.880 --> 0:29:51.440 right now. But at the same time, in this kind 0:29:51.480 --> 0:29:54.080 of what I kind of call the quiet purge, which 0:29:54.080 --> 0:29:55.880 I think has been escalating in recent years that you 0:29:55.960 --> 0:29:59.400 talked about about, you know, just we've got trans journalists 0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:01.640 who used to write for national magazines living out of 0:30:01.680 --> 0:30:05.560 their cars. Now that is the reality we face our publications, 0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:09.160 all working class trans people. And you know, we've had 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:13.440 journalists arrested twice, yeah, oh my for doing their jobs. 0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:16.840 Two of our journalists were were taken to trial in 0:30:16.880 --> 0:30:19.600 twenty twenty three on a minor trustpassing charge, which is 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:22.280 almost unheard of in the US as bad as US 0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:22.800 often is. 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:26.000 As you mention, also, this was like trespassing for fucking 0:30:26.080 --> 0:30:28.800 reporting on the cops doing a helpless and camp and 0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:32.360 sleep like on Christmas. Yeah yeah, oh Christmas. Yeah yeah, 0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:37.920 Like I just like unhinged police state shit, like yeah. 0:30:38.080 --> 0:30:38.280 Yeah. 0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:41.320 Even in LA they'll like sometimes they'll act like accidentally 0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:44.080 a arrest journalist, but then they'll be like, Okay, we'll 0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:46.240 let you go because they're a journalists. They don't actually 0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:46.960 take you to trial. 0:30:47.640 --> 0:30:49.560 This is one of those kind of welcome to Ashville moments, 0:30:49.560 --> 0:30:51.640 because I think people buy the marketing sometimes and think 0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:55.200 we're this super progressive city and actually it's an incredibly 0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:58.240 repressive like tourism Fife and that's this is kind of 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:01.240 really still point though, Like the city got city council 0:31:01.320 --> 0:31:04.600 here is six Democrats and one kind of like Bernie 0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:10.240 Sanders type independent though even more tepid, and the DA 0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:14.400 is a Democrat. And still you know, they were hell 0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:20.280 bent to persecute trans journalists. Yeah, one of our journals 0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:23.560 until the Bliss was openly mistreated and misgendered based on 0:31:23.600 --> 0:31:27.479 her genitor during that So to some degree what's happening 0:31:27.520 --> 0:31:30.040 now is certainly a worsening, but it is also an 0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:32.240 extension what's been going on for a very long time. 0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:35.280 So okay, like it is getting worse, I don't know 0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:38.840 we're going to be in a two, three, even one year, 0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:41.000 but also like this is not a new fight. 0:31:42.200 --> 0:31:44.520 Yeah, I can speak to it a little bit too. 0:31:44.640 --> 0:31:48.239 And I've been a journalist for I guess a lot 0:31:48.320 --> 0:31:52.120 last six months because it's a long story, but I 0:31:52.240 --> 0:31:56.160 kind of got into it more out of fear for myself. 0:31:56.200 --> 0:31:59.520 Sometimes people think I'm selfless, and maybe I am a 0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:01.800 little bit, but a lot of it is really selfish 0:32:01.800 --> 0:32:04.400 and just feeling like I have to do stuff to 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:09.880 protect myself and my friends basically. But even in that 0:32:09.920 --> 0:32:12.240 short period of time, I have faced a lot of 0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:18.840 bad stuff from honestly predominantly the left and liberals and 0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:23.400 sometimes even other queer people being a trans woman of color, 0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:26.320 and that wasn't really initially what I was afraid of, 0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:27.960 you know. I was afraid of like I'm going to 0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:31.320 get death threats and Nazis up in like fandox being 0:32:31.360 --> 0:32:34.600 actually none of that's happened. I can't really explain why 0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:36.440 other than that I just don't use Twitter, and I 0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:39.840 guess so they don't know why exists. But I have 0:32:40.160 --> 0:32:45.640 like one of the first national news story that I broke, 0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:47.200 or one of them, I guess. It was about like 0:32:47.240 --> 0:32:49.920 Medai being like super racist, and I like kind of 0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:52.480 figured that out. I like proved that it was racist 0:32:52.560 --> 0:32:56.400 basically just like use my brain to make it tell 0:32:56.440 --> 0:32:59.360 on itself and explain it's prompt and all that, and 0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:03.440 it became the huge international news story, but it was 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:07.000 like immediately co opted by a Washington Post journalist who 0:33:07.040 --> 0:33:11.040 retreated me and then recreated the conversation and posted it again. 0:33:11.680 --> 0:33:13.959 And then I had to go on like this weeks 0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:16.240 long like kind of campaign to try to just get 0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:19.120 basic credit for that. And eventually she did credit me 0:33:19.240 --> 0:33:21.720 in the column to give her credit, but that was 0:33:21.800 --> 0:33:24.360 not something that was forgiven, and a lot of others 0:33:24.800 --> 0:33:27.960 that I said the thing to you also didn't credit me. 0:33:28.800 --> 0:33:33.400 And that's just been a recurring trend that, uh, yeah, 0:33:33.480 --> 0:33:36.400 like I'm kind of invisible even though I make a 0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:38.120 lot of important news. 0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:40.160 So that kind of sucks. So yeah, there's something happens 0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:42.640 fucking constantly. I'm like, my, my, like, welcome to the 0:33:42.720 --> 0:33:44.520 this this is before I was out too. And it's 0:33:44.560 --> 0:33:45.960 also like, you know, part part of what's going on 0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:48.640 here is like one of the things you learned really 0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:51.760 quickly in media is the extent to which so much 0:33:51.840 --> 0:33:55.640 national media is just like what they do is steal 0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:59.320 stories from like people like who are you know, from 0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:01.200 sort of like like more regional media or people that 0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:03.840 think they can get away with taking stuff from like if. 0:34:04.040 --> 0:34:06.360 And this goes all the way up the chain, right 0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:08.160 like if if. If you want to know what's gonna 0:34:08.200 --> 0:34:11.120 be on Rachel Maddow show, look at look at what's 0:34:11.160 --> 0:34:13.560 happening on behind the bastards whenever they cover someone on 0:34:13.560 --> 0:34:16.000 the right, And within about three weeks you will get 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:17.880 a Rachel Mattour episode that is five minutes a thing. 0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:19.400 But like you know, but like you know, it's obviously 0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:21.560 like it'significantly worse with like trans people, because like, yeah, 0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:24.360 they can just fucking stell stories to mess Like I remember, god, my, 0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:27.000 like my fucking like the first like journalism well that's 0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:31.240 not true, but the first journalism stuff that I did 0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:34.600 with like thoson people was like we would dream in 0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:38.919 like the Atlanta spash shooting. We tracked down there there's 0:34:38.960 --> 0:34:40.640 like that there was a Facebook post that people were 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:44.800 circulating reportedly from the shooter that was like basically blaming 0:34:44.960 --> 0:34:48.040 like anti China media stuff for it. And we tracked 0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:49.560 down that this person did not have a Facebook and 0:34:49.560 --> 0:34:51.120 that all of this was fake, but that person that 0:34:51.120 --> 0:34:53.400 post had been circling into the national news and we 0:34:53.400 --> 0:34:55.279 were like, well, yeah, this is like fake, right, and 0:34:55.320 --> 0:34:58.320 then like every single news, like every single like CNN, 0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:00.640 fucking Fox News, like every single major dwe outlet just 0:35:00.680 --> 0:35:05.000 like took all of our work and like repackaged it 0:35:05.080 --> 0:35:07.200 and then never fucking mentioned that it was like Gary 0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:10.120 and I who did this, because you know, why would 0:35:10.160 --> 0:35:13.920 you credit the transgender anarchists when you could simply repackage 0:35:13.960 --> 0:35:15.560 the story yourself. And this is a problem that's like 0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:18.919 goes all the way up to like this is part 0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:20.359 of the reason we're here right now, right Like we're 0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:22.560 complaining about this on sort of like professional level because 0:35:22.600 --> 0:35:25.520 like it's annoying, but also like the reason we're fucking 0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:27.440 here right now is because the person who got to 0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:30.360 write about trans stuff was fucking Jettison gall who is 0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:32.600 a sis man whose only qualification it was the thing 0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:35.680 he previously wrote about was men who fuck other men 0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:38.319 who don't consider themselves gay. And because he was the 0:35:38.320 --> 0:35:40.800 person who got to write all of the like trans 0:35:40.800 --> 0:35:43.640 cooveraging with though, he's just like some fucking cis dipshit right, 0:35:43.840 --> 0:35:47.080 Like he's now the guy who's like been being cited 0:35:47.120 --> 0:35:49.680 in fucking legal cases for ages and ages for why 0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:52.680 you should restrict trans healthcare, oh. 0:35:53.600 --> 0:35:56.880 The Atlantic and its consequences on society disaster yas. 0:35:58.440 --> 0:35:59.680 Yeah, I meriad you want to talk a bit about 0:35:59.719 --> 0:36:00.440 your exp with it. 0:36:00.480 --> 0:36:03.120 Honestly, what you just described has been happening to me 0:36:03.239 --> 0:36:06.880 this week. So I've been in the industry for about 0:36:06.960 --> 0:36:10.799 three to four years now, consistently inconsistently for a little 0:36:10.840 --> 0:36:16.120 bit longer, And initially it was way easier for me 0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:20.520 to get eggs, Like within the first few months of 0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:24.440 me seriously starting, I got accepted pitches into Discover magazine 0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:29.240 and places like that, and then like within like six 0:36:29.320 --> 0:36:33.400 months after that, it became a nightmare to get pitches accepted. Yeah, 0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:35.960 it just so happened. I became more out as trans 0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:39.400 off the time frame definitely not a coincidence at all. 0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:45.760 But more recently, this week I launched my independent newsletter, 0:36:45.880 --> 0:36:49.200 The Free Radical. Go subscribe it, goes subscribe it. It's 0:36:49.280 --> 0:36:50.080 legitimately great. 0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:52.760 You will get reporting there that you won't fucking get well, okay, 0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:56.399 you will get recording there that you won't get from 0:36:56.400 --> 0:36:59.000 anyone else until about three weeks later, when all the 0:36:59.040 --> 0:37:01.600 national out let's pick it up, and it will be 0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:03.439 better and you will have it first to the person 0:37:03.480 --> 0:37:04.759 who actually reported it. 0:37:07.680 --> 0:37:10.280 In every artguard retons so far, I've taken a second 0:37:10.360 --> 0:37:13.160 to basically be like, Okay, here's some anarchist shit you 0:37:13.200 --> 0:37:17.279 should read. Y'all. Audience is mostly like libs, and I'm 0:37:17.320 --> 0:37:21.799 just like here, here, read this please. But my first 0:37:21.840 --> 0:37:25.480 story I broke this week was about a trans woman 0:37:25.520 --> 0:37:31.040 who was legally held in Guantanamo Bay, and that story 0:37:31.120 --> 0:37:33.719 got picked up by big remedia outlets pretty quick. But 0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:37.080 in the first like twelve hours, the news uplet then 0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:40.520 did a very good story that basically just cited me 0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:43.600 every chance they got. Come to find out, this is 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:45.680 because a trans woman wrote that she's awesome. I just 0:37:45.680 --> 0:37:49.640 followed her to the other day. Oh but then bazillion 0:37:49.760 --> 0:37:51.480 dus out like started picking up on this. 0:37:52.000 --> 0:37:54.359 Yeah, this was a Brazilian trans woman who got like 0:37:54.680 --> 0:37:55.600 sent to Guantanamo. 0:37:56.080 --> 0:38:01.520 Yeah. And the first one to do this was the 0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:05.600 newspaper Forgive me if I am mispronounced in this full 0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:08.960 holdais self polo. I believe it's called I might be 0:38:09.040 --> 0:38:12.160 mispronouncing that. I apologize if I am. But they are 0:38:12.280 --> 0:38:15.160 one of the biggest newspapers in Brazil and definitely one 0:38:15.200 --> 0:38:17.600 of the oldest. And that story was all right, you know, 0:38:17.640 --> 0:38:20.719 they credited me, you're breaking the story. Yeah, I was 0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:23.640 talking to the person who wrote that. She's sweet and 0:38:23.680 --> 0:38:27.239 even did original recording. It's awesome. And then right after that, 0:38:27.400 --> 0:38:31.000 like dozens of other outlets came. Then none of them 0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:35.120 credited me, and they posted like social media stuff about 0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:37.840 the story. Not a single one of those credited me, 0:38:38.840 --> 0:38:43.120 and they're getting like thousands of lights and comments and shares, 0:38:43.239 --> 0:38:48.239 and most egregious I think is I've seen a few 0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:53.080 of them credit the journalist with fulha as breaking the story, 0:38:53.440 --> 0:38:57.960 and I've seen one sake them as breaking the story. 0:38:58.160 --> 0:38:59.920 Oh my god, who's art? 0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:03.440 Go mind you literally in a subheading says I broke 0:39:03.480 --> 0:39:03.960 the story. 0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:09.120 Yeah, and I didn't check in on it today yet, 0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:12.160 but last night I was like up late just looking 0:39:12.200 --> 0:39:14.400 at all the news outlets that was boosting, and it's like, 0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:16.080 and why the stories getting coverage. 0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:19.120 Don't get me wrong, it's an important one. It's just like, yeah, no, 0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:22.759 it's great. Yeah, almost none of them are seeing where 0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:25.520 they got the story from. It's just like, oh, wow, 0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:29.320 there's this bigger outlet covery. I'm gonna credit the bigger outlift. 0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:31.800 So did to explain why we're also sort of concerned 0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:35.400 about like the way this attribution stuff works, right, this 0:39:35.600 --> 0:39:40.080 is an incredibly material problem for us, right, And like 0:39:40.239 --> 0:39:43.560 I am very lucky in that, like in terms of transjertionalism, 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:47.480 I have like a stable job. But the thing is, 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:51.560 right unless unless you fucking got really lucky and you 0:39:51.680 --> 0:39:54.440 got hired like as assis person, and then you have 0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:58.400 a bunch of very very supportive like coworkers, and like 0:39:58.440 --> 0:40:03.000 your bosses are supportive. You are like trying to cobble 0:40:03.160 --> 0:40:06.920 together like every scent that you can possibly pull out 0:40:06.960 --> 0:40:09.719 of a fucking couch cushion, because like you know, I've 0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:11.960 said this other show before, right, Like, if you're a 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:14.880 transperson in the US, even when even before all the 0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:17.719 turf tariffs hit right like you you were living in 0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:19.879 the night in like nineteen thirty six, great depression levels 0:40:19.880 --> 0:40:22.680 of unemployment, and you know, and so and so that 0:40:22.719 --> 0:40:25.919 means that, like it actually matters a lot when when 0:40:25.960 --> 0:40:27.920 other outlets do your stories and don't attribute it to you, 0:40:28.000 --> 0:40:31.520 because like, you have to find a way to fucking 0:40:31.560 --> 0:40:34.080 make money, and like, almost all trans journalists are like 0:40:34.800 --> 0:40:37.440 the most hideously broke people you've ever heard of in 0:40:37.480 --> 0:40:40.600 your entire fucking life. Like, and this is also you know, 0:40:40.640 --> 0:40:41.759 and this is this is also part of the way 0:40:41.760 --> 0:40:45.719 that like class plays out in the transmitting you see, 0:40:45.880 --> 0:40:50.440 is like, you know, the people with the biggest platforms 0:40:50.520 --> 0:40:53.000 tend to be trans people who were already doing okay, 0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:54.560 because those are the only people who can afford to 0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:57.480 fucking do this. And like that's why most of you 0:40:57.600 --> 0:40:59.680 have heard of me, and most of you probably have 0:40:59.760 --> 0:41:02.600 not heard of David and Miira, even though David and 0:41:02.640 --> 0:41:07.400 Mirra do like quite frankly more important journalism than I do, 0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:09.040 and like and in terms of especially in terms of 0:41:09.040 --> 0:41:10.799 like like and like break a lot way more fucking 0:41:10.840 --> 0:41:12.440 stories than I do. Because it's not kind of like 0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:16.960 not exactly like my thing, right, But that's because I was, like, 0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:18.640 you know, like I was already sort of like in 0:41:18.719 --> 0:41:20.799 a place that was financially secure, and everyone else is 0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:24.440 so unbelievably fucking broke all the time. And it matters 0:41:24.480 --> 0:41:27.080 when fucking stories get stolen, because the only way that 0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:28.880 if if you're a trans journalist and you're you know, 0:41:28.920 --> 0:41:31.479 you're working at your own outlet, because an outlet won't 0:41:31.480 --> 0:41:33.640 fucking hire you because that's just the way that the 0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:37.279 fucking media is structured. The only way for you to 0:41:37.320 --> 0:41:41.200 get paid is by like people seeing your stories. And 0:41:41.719 --> 0:41:44.200 that's part of why there's like just not that many 0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:48.080 trans journalists because like the level of discrimination on top 0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:50.840 of the kind of like erasure of independent journalist that 0:41:50.840 --> 0:41:53.520 already happens, makes it just like financially impossible to fucking 0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:53.920 do it. 0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:57.719 Yeah, it's it's not just uh liberal media, or it's 0:41:57.760 --> 0:42:01.239 not just like the cist liberal meat too. Sometimes, Like 0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:03.920 I had a similar thing with when I broke the 0:42:03.920 --> 0:42:09.799 story of rain and some other sexual abuse nonprofits removing 0:42:09.960 --> 0:42:13.800 all of the trans people from their websites. That became 0:42:13.840 --> 0:42:16.759 a national news story, and the Washington Post kicked it 0:42:16.840 --> 0:42:20.160 up also, and I think part of that was because 0:42:20.200 --> 0:42:22.480 I complained so much about the previous time where they 0:42:22.520 --> 0:42:25.080 almost didn't cite me, that maybe they were a little 0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:28.440 bit more cautious about me, is my theory. But anyway, 0:42:28.760 --> 0:42:32.399 after that initial news story that cited me, same thing 0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:34.640 happened where it's like everyone's like, oh, well, we can 0:42:34.680 --> 0:42:37.120 just cite the Washington Post now, and so this person 0:42:37.160 --> 0:42:39.680 no one knows. And the first website to do that 0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:42.359 was like a queer news outlet, and then I just 0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:44.879 kept watching as like I think it was like three 0:42:45.000 --> 0:42:49.200 or four different queer or like feminist women focused news 0:42:49.200 --> 0:42:52.879 outlets did the same thing of not citing me, And 0:42:52.960 --> 0:42:55.080 there was even like a really long piece from this 0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:57.840 other like, oht that was it felt like it was 0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:00.000 going out of its way not to cite me because 0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:04.720 it was talking about this entire issue about nonprofits censoring people, 0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:08.759 and that was an entire conversation that was started specifically 0:43:08.800 --> 0:43:12.200 because of the news article I wrote, but it specifically 0:43:12.239 --> 0:43:15.120 did not cite me, even though they mentioned how one 0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:19.200 of the organizations that I reported on had reversed course, 0:43:19.400 --> 0:43:21.200 which is something that they emailed me and said it 0:43:21.200 --> 0:43:23.160 was because of me. So that's how that's how deep 0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:24.919 this goes, they will like go out of their way 0:43:25.000 --> 0:43:27.320 to like carve you out of a story that exists 0:43:27.320 --> 0:43:31.040 because of you, even if they are extensively you know, 0:43:31.160 --> 0:43:33.280 not just a liberal like a New York Times outlet, 0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:37.439 but like a left wing like progressive facing outlet that's 0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:40.360 trying to like market itself like that. They they just 0:43:40.400 --> 0:43:43.200 want to exclude trans women from their own stories. Even 0:43:43.239 --> 0:43:44.200 it's kind of crazy. 0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:47.560 Yeah, the extent of it is actually telling of the 0:43:47.600 --> 0:43:51.640 local level too. Here the blade Diddle number of reporting 0:43:51.719 --> 0:43:54.040 and we also featured some like really well thought out 0:43:54.040 --> 0:43:56.560 and pretty sharp opinion columns, which is one thing we 0:43:56.640 --> 0:43:58.840 kind of specializing because they're really good for like raising 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:02.840 issues in the local level about how awful the tourism 0:44:02.840 --> 0:44:06.400 Development Authority is, which is this hotel or cartail that 0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:10.160 takes every dime of all the local hotel tax, every 0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:12.000 bit of it, and then uses it to market the 0:44:12.040 --> 0:44:15.840 place to more rich people and push crackdowns on pretty 0:44:15.920 --> 0:44:16.719 much everyone else. 0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:18.840 So we pushed this. 0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:22.320 It became a widespread public demand, A lot of organizing 0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:25.440 happened around it, and there was zip Zilch zero mentioned 0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:29.880 that like spurred by investigations and editorials in the Asheville Blade. 0:44:30.080 --> 0:44:33.120 Even one of the people who wrote that editorial, who 0:44:33.160 --> 0:44:36.400 was a local resident activist who dealt with some tourism stuff, 0:44:37.080 --> 0:44:40.200 was literally being quoted the fact she'd written a piece 0:44:40.239 --> 0:44:42.600 for the Blade and that you know, was just not mentioned, 0:44:43.000 --> 0:44:45.040 and it actually became kind of a running kind of 0:44:45.040 --> 0:44:47.640 grim joke because we're all working class Trains people, and 0:44:48.040 --> 0:44:51.200 you know, half of us are transferm is just the 0:44:51.239 --> 0:44:53.880 Asheville Blade does not exist. And some of that was 0:44:53.920 --> 0:44:57.399 for liberals, but honestly, Ashville has a massive trains massaging problem. 0:44:57.400 --> 0:44:58.799 Which think we were the first meet outs to do 0:44:58.960 --> 0:45:01.520 like a quick guide to trans misogyny in which we 0:45:01.520 --> 0:45:02.840 did kind of like a slide show about it in 0:45:02.840 --> 0:45:04.960 our Patreon and stuff, because it was that extensive. But 0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:07.000 even the left to Nashville has some real problems with 0:45:07.000 --> 0:45:09.839 trans misogyny. So and it's applied everything out just from 0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:12.520 trans issues, but even to bread and butter kind of 0:45:12.520 --> 0:45:14.560 local stuff, which we also do a lot of reporting on. 0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:17.759 You know, it's we can't admit that trans leftists and 0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:21.439 anarchists are shaping the discussion in any way, shape or form. 0:45:21.960 --> 0:45:22.280 MHM. 0:45:33.000 --> 0:45:36.000 It's funny because like like even us like even like 0:45:36.080 --> 0:45:38.279 the podcast it could happen here, which is like a 0:45:38.320 --> 0:45:43.760 pretty big national thing, like there's no one else talks 0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:47.000 about us. It's fucking amazing. You could just like see 0:45:47.080 --> 0:45:49.600 you could like literally watch like every other podcast that's 0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:53.120 like a tenth of our size there's like media coverage 0:45:53.120 --> 0:45:56.000 of and there's nothing and they will never admit that 0:45:56.080 --> 0:45:59.680 we fucking did anything. It's awesome. It's so cool, And 0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:01.960 I think like a conversions of facturacy too, because like 0:46:02.719 --> 0:46:04.840 you know, on the one hand, like in terms of 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:08.759 sort of the way that hypervisibility works, right, hypervisibility for 0:46:08.800 --> 0:46:13.680 transferms only works negatively, like there's only the kind of 0:46:13.760 --> 0:46:16.279 like you get fucked by it. But then also on 0:46:16.320 --> 0:46:17.840 top of it, you get the reverse version of it, 0:46:17.880 --> 0:46:20.120 where it's like, yeah, you know your labor was stolen 0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:22.879 all and this is you know, this is true both 0:46:22.960 --> 0:46:24.680 in movements. This is true of the way the sort 0:46:24.680 --> 0:46:27.719 of capitalist media functions. And then on top of that 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:32.000 we have the kind of like trifecta of like we 0:46:32.080 --> 0:46:37.759 will never mention that you exist, which is trans independent 0:46:38.080 --> 0:46:41.120 and radical at the same time, and like this is 0:46:41.160 --> 0:46:44.200 the thing happens like every fucking transferm like journalist, like 0:46:44.320 --> 0:46:47.600 friend of the show Maya Arsen crime w has had 0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:52.120 this happen to it like a billion fucking times. I 0:46:52.160 --> 0:46:54.279 want to talk a bit more about kind of just 0:46:54.320 --> 0:46:57.160 like the financials of how this plays out and how 0:46:57.680 --> 0:47:01.200 independent media is sort of being so ported in this era, 0:47:01.400 --> 0:47:05.960 because you know, like it's also really true that like Eve, 0:47:06.239 --> 0:47:08.799 even the like nominally trans outlets, like a lot of 0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:13.680 it functions a labor exploitation. And yeah, let's let's talk 0:47:13.680 --> 0:47:14.439 a bit about that. 0:47:14.640 --> 0:47:19.200 I have a lot of strong cakes, seen some shit. 0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:26.080 Oh boy, I have so many opinions, So I mentioned 0:47:26.160 --> 0:47:29.440 I kind of more formally got to start three to 0:47:29.480 --> 0:47:32.319 four years ago. My first article was published in like 0:47:32.360 --> 0:47:34.919 twenty eighteen, and it was just like a local thing 0:47:34.960 --> 0:47:41.240 when I was living in Scranton, Pennsylvania area where bathing happens, 0:47:41.280 --> 0:47:44.560 but I found something to report on. The reason I 0:47:44.600 --> 0:47:48.040 got started that would have been like early twenty twenty two. 0:47:48.120 --> 0:47:51.400 Reason I got started then because I was homeless and 0:47:51.480 --> 0:47:53.560 I needed a way to make money, and where I 0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:55.359 was living at the time it was a complete job 0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:57.960 desert there. I didn't have a car and there was 0:47:58.080 --> 0:48:01.040 nothing in walking distance to me. The only things that 0:48:01.400 --> 0:48:05.879 were like minimum wage food service jobs that over half 0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:09.200 an hour walk and my lon disabled. My body is 0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:12.879 in pain if I stand up too long. So those 0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:16.560 jobs did not last long because I physically couldn't. And 0:48:16.640 --> 0:48:19.400 so I tried to find something that I could do remotely, 0:48:20.160 --> 0:48:24.760 more consistently, and I went all in into freelance writing 0:48:24.760 --> 0:48:25.560 and journal. 0:48:25.280 --> 0:48:25.480 With the. 0:48:27.400 --> 0:48:29.160 Real really the money making career. 0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:33.600 Oh yeah, I'm totally I'm just in this for the money, 0:48:33.640 --> 0:48:33.840 you know. 0:48:34.480 --> 0:48:35.240 I made such. 0:48:35.080 --> 0:48:38.799 Amazing profits that year, which is why I ended up 0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:40.440 homeless again, and by the end of the year I 0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:41.360 was living in a hotel. 0:48:42.640 --> 0:48:44.240 God yeah. 0:48:44.280 --> 0:48:46.759 And a lot of the writing I was doing at 0:48:46.800 --> 0:48:51.120 that time was very generalist and I hadn't really found 0:48:51.200 --> 0:48:54.279 much of my niche yet. But as I began to 0:48:54.400 --> 0:48:58.840 zero it more on trains, issues over time and just 0:48:58.920 --> 0:49:01.759 politics and stuff like that. Because as an aside, I 0:49:01.840 --> 0:49:05.960 also tried to break into gaming journalism because I unfortunately 0:49:06.000 --> 0:49:09.400 am a gamer regredibly many such cases, many such cases, 0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:12.000 and that industry is just dead. It was dying at 0:49:12.040 --> 0:49:14.160 that point and now it's just like, if you want 0:49:14.200 --> 0:49:16.239 to get a job as a gaming journalist, you're not 0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:19.160 gonna I tried. We need more people to do it, 0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:22.040 but it does not pay. So I ended up going 0:49:22.040 --> 0:49:27.120 into politics journalism, which pays like marginally better, and by 0:49:27.200 --> 0:49:30.200 marginally better, let me talk about some of my rates. 0:49:30.360 --> 0:49:32.080 Oh god, yeah. 0:49:31.880 --> 0:49:36.640 One outlet I've written for pretty consistently goal for a while. 0:49:37.400 --> 0:49:39.799 To start, it paid me about one hundred bucks an 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:43.759 article flat rate. And this includes for highly research and 0:49:43.840 --> 0:49:45.200 death recording articles. 0:49:45.440 --> 0:49:47.040 My god, yeah, this. 0:49:47.080 --> 0:49:48.960 Is again like shit that's going to be stolen by 0:49:49.000 --> 0:49:53.040 a national outlet in two days, like and by you. 0:49:53.120 --> 0:49:54.960 A lot of these stories took weeks to make and 0:49:55.120 --> 0:49:58.600 fell for a hundred bucks, And so I eventually got 0:49:58.680 --> 0:50:02.040 quote upcradated to that outl it to doing seventy five 0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:08.440 a piece, but four pieces in a month, and so 0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:12.319 that was great. You know that two hundred dollars a 0:50:12.360 --> 0:50:16.880 month for each individually reported piece. That really paid the bills. 0:50:17.680 --> 0:50:22.440 And eventually it changed into one fifty a piece for 0:50:22.760 --> 0:50:26.319 indef reporting pieces that often took over a month's worth 0:50:26.360 --> 0:50:29.160 of work to get going. And I had to meet 0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:31.279 my deadliner as they would get really angry at me 0:50:32.160 --> 0:50:37.160 and they would be really dickish. And that was one 0:50:37.200 --> 0:50:40.920 of my better experiences, certainly, not the best I've had. 0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:43.080 Plenty of people who were wonderful, who I've riten for 0:50:43.920 --> 0:50:47.360 and I've had great times with. But the through line 0:50:47.480 --> 0:50:49.520 of all of it, even the places that pay that 0:50:49.600 --> 0:50:52.799 are they're for one off stories. They're for things that 0:50:53.600 --> 0:50:56.640 do not giveing key a source of and come long term. 0:50:57.040 --> 0:50:59.080 Even the places that have paid me the best for 0:50:59.160 --> 0:51:04.359 individual storyes, it's not enough, not the least of which 0:51:04.400 --> 0:51:06.719 because you know, the cost of living is borable right now, 0:51:06.840 --> 0:51:09.640 terrorists are going to show up and oh God, or 0:51:09.760 --> 0:51:13.440 what the fuck is happening, But also because none of 0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:18.160 it's consistent. The closest to consistent I had was overworking 0:51:18.160 --> 0:51:21.399 myself by writing like upwards of like ten articles a week, 0:51:22.239 --> 0:51:25.120 sometimes upwards of like five to seven in one day 0:51:25.760 --> 0:51:28.920 and all of them being reported and in that And 0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:35.560 it's not sustainable doing that, No, no, but that's just common. 0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:38.000 That is just normal. 0:51:38.400 --> 0:51:41.359 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's and it's like the sort 0:51:41.400 --> 0:51:43.799 of bleak thing about it is your your options are 0:51:44.200 --> 0:51:48.560 you have money already, you won the fucking lottery basically, 0:51:48.680 --> 0:51:53.520 and like you got a stable position, you work at 0:51:53.520 --> 0:51:59.680 a rate that is like genuinely hideous, or you have 0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:03.080 a side job, and sometimes it's a lot of these 0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:07.480 things combined. Yeah, yeah, I think there's a tendency to 0:52:07.520 --> 0:52:10.160 talk about discrimination as something that's sort of like abstract 0:52:10.239 --> 0:52:13.920 or something that's even just kind of like point of 0:52:14.000 --> 0:52:16.279 hiring stuff, which is all true and like, you know, 0:52:16.480 --> 0:52:18.560 it is like yeah, like part of the problem with 0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:20.720 this is that it's impossible to get like fucking staff 0:52:20.760 --> 0:52:23.880 positions and like and like I could say this is 0:52:23.960 --> 0:52:26.640 like so I mean I got hired like as a 0:52:26.640 --> 0:52:28.520 SIS person, right, and like and like they would have 0:52:28.560 --> 0:52:30.520 hired me if I was trans, But like that's also 0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:33.040 just true for a lot of people, which is that 0:52:33.080 --> 0:52:34.440 like that's like the way that you can do it. 0:52:35.280 --> 0:52:37.840 So like there is the like front toward discrimination. But 0:52:37.880 --> 0:52:39.920 then also the second aspect of it is that like 0:52:40.680 --> 0:52:42.719 the way that all of this stuff plays out structurally 0:52:42.760 --> 0:52:45.120 in the economy is that you get reduced to sort 0:52:45.120 --> 0:52:47.160 of contract labor unless you try to go go it 0:52:47.200 --> 0:52:51.719 by yourself. And because of the incredible just my material 0:52:51.800 --> 0:52:54.839 financial oppression of trans people, this is another big part 0:52:54.880 --> 0:52:57.239 of the reason why there's just so few, you know, 0:52:57.280 --> 0:52:59.960 and like there's there's becoming more right and I'm incredibly 0:53:00.760 --> 0:53:03.040 like you know, like I'm fucking talking with three trans 0:53:03.120 --> 0:53:06.239 journalists this rules. And also the reason is all more 0:53:06.280 --> 0:53:10.000 of us, which is important because like sis, people trying 0:53:10.040 --> 0:53:12.879 to cover our stori is a fucking disaster, Like that's 0:53:12.920 --> 0:53:14.359 how we got here. But like part of the reason 0:53:14.360 --> 0:53:16.600 why there's not more is just that, like it's so 0:53:16.719 --> 0:53:20.120 difficult to survive doing this and yeah, you know, and 0:53:20.120 --> 0:53:22.120 that's also I'm gonna gona tur this into a minor plug, 0:53:22.120 --> 0:53:24.560 which is like, go subscribe to the Ashful Blade, go 0:53:24.640 --> 0:53:27.120 subscribe to Free Radical, goes subscribe to mane cast News, 0:53:27.160 --> 0:53:31.840 because like literally the difference between like people being able 0:53:32.120 --> 0:53:35.400 to have an apartment and pay their rent or like 0:53:35.480 --> 0:53:38.920 living in a car is like the amount of support 0:53:39.040 --> 0:53:40.400 that you get from this stuff. 0:53:40.480 --> 0:53:44.160 That's absolutely true. Yeah, and I should note the you know, 0:53:44.160 --> 0:53:47.680 the Blade's a co op. We've been one for for 0:53:48.120 --> 0:53:51.080 half a decade now, and part of the reason for 0:53:51.160 --> 0:53:55.320 that was we've seen how unfairly like income was treated 0:53:56.440 --> 0:53:59.680 just in the press in general. And also I'm an 0:53:59.680 --> 0:54:02.000 anner kissed and while I love being an editor, I 0:54:02.040 --> 0:54:03.880 don't want to be a boss. I want to like 0:54:03.960 --> 0:54:06.960 work with other people, and it's made us a lot 0:54:07.000 --> 0:54:09.040 more effective. I would say we wouldn't exist if we 0:54:09.160 --> 0:54:12.160 hadn't become a co op, but also when we do 0:54:12.239 --> 0:54:14.160 hit a difficult financial spot and we operate in a 0:54:14.320 --> 0:54:18.200 shoestring budget, especially post to Lene as sadly a lot 0:54:18.239 --> 0:54:21.200 of folks have been driven out of Ashville by the 0:54:21.239 --> 0:54:24.479 refusal of various governments to do anything about rental aid, 0:54:24.600 --> 0:54:27.560 by the resumption of like very quick resumption of fvictions, 0:54:27.800 --> 0:54:30.360 and a lot of other horrible stuff Like it's a struggle. 0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:33.040 We all are working class folks, we all work of 0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:38.560 their jobs and face transis, the discrimination, trans misology, and transphobia. 0:54:39.000 --> 0:54:42.879 So it's it's difficult. And even with being a co op, 0:54:43.320 --> 0:54:45.640 we do the best we can, and we do, unlike 0:54:45.680 --> 0:54:50.880 other places, pay freelancers fair rate. But sometimes it's legitimately 0:54:50.880 --> 0:54:54.080 difficult to divide up our tiny budget, and at some 0:54:54.160 --> 0:54:56.680 points we say, look, we can't cover this right now, 0:54:56.880 --> 0:54:59.600 or we have to say okay, yeah, in some cases 0:54:59.680 --> 0:55:02.400 I've done it before, certainly I'm covering this, but I 0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:04.239 am going to literally have to split up payment forward 0:55:04.280 --> 0:55:05.919 over multile months because we just don't have the money 0:55:05.960 --> 0:55:07.680 in there. But I feel it does need, it does 0:55:07.800 --> 0:55:10.920 need to get out there. And even if those decisions 0:55:10.920 --> 0:55:13.960 are made more fairly, it is still a real problem 0:55:14.040 --> 0:55:17.440 that we are dividing up a fairly small pool of resources. 0:55:17.560 --> 0:55:20.280 We do a lot with that, but it is real limitation. 0:55:20.920 --> 0:55:21.359 Mm hmm. 0:55:21.680 --> 0:55:21.919 Yeah. 0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:24.319 I'm kind of in a similar boat in terms of 0:55:25.160 --> 0:55:28.120 my publication, Maddie cast News. So I've in one of 0:55:28.160 --> 0:55:30.399 the categories you mentioned. Actually I'm in two of them, 0:55:30.520 --> 0:55:34.400 where I find what I'm doing not from my work 0:55:34.560 --> 0:55:35.600 but from. 0:55:35.840 --> 0:55:39.160 My first job, my main job. I guess which I got. 0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:42.400 I guess pretending to be assis or maybe you know, 0:55:42.600 --> 0:55:45.320 non binary, be them or whatever and then kind of 0:55:45.400 --> 0:55:50.080 jump scare them. But anyway, that job pays pretty well thankfully, 0:55:50.320 --> 0:55:52.960 you know, software engineering one of the one of the 0:55:53.000 --> 0:55:55.759 lottery professions for trans women. You get your healthcare, you 0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:59.880 get your money. But I've been trying to go beyond 0:56:00.280 --> 0:56:02.520 just me and try to help other people as well. 0:56:03.120 --> 0:56:07.399 So recently we just applied for fiscal sponsorship with five 0:56:07.400 --> 0:56:10.120 to one C three, which hopefully hopefully let us become 0:56:10.120 --> 0:56:14.359 a charity tax deductible and all that. And I've also 0:56:14.440 --> 0:56:15.920 been putting a bit of my own money. And I've 0:56:15.920 --> 0:56:19.200 also been you know, pretty much begging all my readers 0:56:19.239 --> 0:56:22.840 to give us money because one of the biggest goals 0:56:23.000 --> 0:56:26.200 of my publication has It kind of started off more 0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:28.520 about like, you know, reporting on the news, of course, 0:56:28.600 --> 0:56:31.279 but now it's reporting on the news and also you know, 0:56:31.480 --> 0:56:34.120 making sure the people who report on the news aren't homeless. 0:56:34.200 --> 0:56:36.960 Actually maybe that's a bad thing. Everyone I know in 0:56:37.000 --> 0:56:40.680 my life knows people like all these journalists who report 0:56:40.760 --> 0:56:43.000 on this news, but a lot of them probably don't 0:56:43.000 --> 0:56:45.640 even know how much like they suck as they struggled 0:56:45.719 --> 0:56:48.960 just like getting through their daily lives. So I'm really 0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:52.680 trying to hopefully create some structure for us to have 0:56:52.680 --> 0:56:56.160 at least one nonprofit that will fund trans journalists at 0:56:56.160 --> 0:56:58.680 like a living wage of at least, you know, twenty 0:56:58.719 --> 0:57:00.480 five dollars an hour, which I honest I don't think 0:57:00.520 --> 0:57:02.520 it's a lot, especially like in a place like LA, 0:57:02.640 --> 0:57:05.200 but twenty five dollars an hour is probably more than 0:57:05.239 --> 0:57:08.280 you can get almost anywhere as a trans journalist. 0:57:08.320 --> 0:57:10.520 Also, I've heard a lot of jokes. 0:57:10.320 --> 0:57:12.880 About, you know, we're passing around the same trade dollars 0:57:13.600 --> 0:57:16.360 in the trans community, and it's a little bit more 0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:18.800 of that. But I'm also hoping to see if I 0:57:18.800 --> 0:57:21.320 can try to fundraise from other people and try to, 0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:25.800 you know, raise awareness for this issue because I don't 0:57:25.840 --> 0:57:27.560 have a lot of time myself to be read in 0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:29.880 articles these days, because I do have a full ten job. 0:57:29.920 --> 0:57:33.320 But yeah, hoping to kind of make a dent on 0:57:33.360 --> 0:57:36.440 this issue and raise awareness. And it's really a win 0:57:36.520 --> 0:57:39.000 ran for all trans people that you know, if we're 0:57:39.000 --> 0:57:41.800 paying people who need this money to survive, but they're 0:57:41.840 --> 0:57:46.520 also creating really important news coverage that literally is like 0:57:46.600 --> 0:57:50.200 life changing for hundreds of thousands, millions of people at 0:57:50.280 --> 0:57:53.080 many times. And that's how I see it's an exceptionally 0:57:53.120 --> 0:57:55.600 important issue that is completely unaddressed. 0:57:56.320 --> 0:57:58.000 This is also part of the issue with the way 0:57:58.000 --> 0:58:01.280 that like trans issue who are reported on by the 0:58:01.360 --> 0:58:05.040 media is that they're they're largely you know, and it's 0:58:05.320 --> 0:58:08.800 not things like healthcare aren't important, right, but like just 0:58:09.160 --> 0:58:12.680 the raw class dynamic of all of this just does 0:58:12.720 --> 0:58:15.840 not get talked about, right. The homelessness rates that I 0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:19.400 don't I don't, actually fuck I should have the homelessness 0:58:19.480 --> 0:58:21.720 race off top of my head. Things like three or 0:58:21.760 --> 0:58:23.920 four times at the very least more likely across the 0:58:24.000 --> 0:58:28.040 entire transpopulation to be homeless than people. And like you 0:58:28.080 --> 0:58:30.760 can just fucking see that if you know trans people. 0:58:30.800 --> 0:58:35.360 It's like, yeah, fucking everyone's spent a bunch of time 0:58:35.400 --> 0:58:39.960 being homeless, and like, you know, that's just the conditions 0:58:40.000 --> 0:58:43.200 of this. And you know, this is the thing that like, 0:58:43.360 --> 0:58:46.920 as you the listener, like it is possible for this. 0:58:46.960 --> 0:58:49.640 It doesn't have to fucking be like this, Like it doesn't. 0:58:49.960 --> 0:58:52.440 You have the power in your hands, like to keep 0:58:52.480 --> 0:58:54.440 people off the street and like with a roof above 0:58:54.480 --> 0:58:56.720 their head. And you can do this by clicking the 0:58:56.720 --> 0:58:57.280 links in the. 0:58:57.200 --> 0:59:02.200 Description from our co O. Thank you for repeatedly mentioning 0:59:02.240 --> 0:59:06.120 that aspect. I think also, this does, this classynemic does 0:59:06.160 --> 0:59:09.560 shape the type of trans coverage you see two quite 0:59:09.560 --> 0:59:12.840 a bit. We did, sir, importing one time on the 0:59:12.880 --> 0:59:16.720 city of Ashville spending over a million dollars to the 0:59:16.840 --> 0:59:21.720 Salvation Army, which is basically a queer and transphobic cult. 0:59:22.000 --> 0:59:24.520 But that piece is reported very differently from if it 0:59:24.640 --> 0:59:28.960 been reported by say a trans journalist who'd been very 0:59:28.960 --> 0:59:32.720 well off their entire lives. You know, because a lot 0:59:32.760 --> 0:59:34.720 of us people in our co op have either been 0:59:34.720 --> 0:59:37.480 close to or been homeless before, and so we were 0:59:37.480 --> 0:59:39.800 able to bring in the experience of knowing that if 0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:42.960 you are a trans homeless person, the Salvation Army isn't 0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:45.920 letting you in or is one of the worst possible 0:59:45.960 --> 0:59:48.280 shelters you can end up in. And that piece was 0:59:48.320 --> 0:59:51.680 written and read very differently because we were drawing from 0:59:51.760 --> 0:59:53.440 that from that on the ground experience. 0:59:54.320 --> 0:59:57.400 Yeah, on that note, I've I've written so many stories 0:59:57.480 --> 1:00:02.440 that have been about the poverty rates of trans people 1:00:02.480 --> 1:00:07.040 and what we've all gone through. I used to be 1:00:07.080 --> 1:00:10.600 a daily contributor for LGBTQ Nation. They were one of 1:00:10.600 --> 1:00:12.760 the outlooks that I was trying to crank out as 1:00:12.800 --> 1:00:16.320 many articles as I could for and the editors lovely people. 1:00:16.360 --> 1:00:19.720 There no issues with them, Lovely folks. Yeah, they just 1:00:20.000 --> 1:00:21.880 they don't. They didn't have enough money to begin with 1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:26.360 to pay me enough, so you're gonna do. I remember 1:00:26.400 --> 1:00:29.440 working on a story or something like the summer of 1:00:29.520 --> 1:00:34.000 last year for them where I was I was writing 1:00:34.080 --> 1:00:38.680 about some new report that came out talking about just 1:00:38.720 --> 1:00:41.840 like poverty rates, job discrimination rates of trans people. And 1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:47.320 one thing I've noticed is, like David mentioned, there is 1:00:47.360 --> 1:00:50.400 a huge disconnect between even if you have like wealthier 1:00:50.400 --> 1:00:53.080 trans people write about an issue versus those who are 1:00:54.240 --> 1:00:57.560 in poverty. Like a lot of the sources I had 1:00:58.040 --> 1:01:01.240 for specific article. I don't remember that headline because I 1:01:01.280 --> 1:01:03.680 wrote like five hundred or goalster q Nation last year. 1:01:03.840 --> 1:01:07.760 But a lot of the sources I used for that article, 1:01:07.760 --> 1:01:10.840 and like other ones like it, are like big nonprofits. 1:01:11.040 --> 1:01:13.880 And you know, obviously your mileage may very depending on 1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:17.680 whur's nonprofit. But most of the folk who like were 1:01:17.720 --> 1:01:21.000 writing these reports or who were doing the press releases 1:01:21.160 --> 1:01:23.760 and stuff like that, you could just kind of tell 1:01:24.440 --> 1:01:28.160 that they maybe did not have quite the same experiences 1:01:28.240 --> 1:01:31.680 as say, trans people who have been homeless, trans people 1:01:31.720 --> 1:01:35.080 who have had to deprive themselves of medical care because 1:01:35.080 --> 1:01:37.120 they couldn't afford it, trans people who have had to 1:01:37.120 --> 1:01:42.080 go without food because not enough money. And it's almost 1:01:42.120 --> 1:01:44.720 like a lot of people who didn't have to go 1:01:44.760 --> 1:01:48.680 through this stuff like intellectualize it more. They see it 1:01:48.680 --> 1:01:53.720 as like these abstract numbers and they know it's bad, 1:01:54.320 --> 1:01:58.439 but they don't have that like individual connection. Like even 1:01:58.600 --> 1:02:01.120 many of the nonprofit folks, a lot of their friends, 1:02:01.280 --> 1:02:04.240 even their social circles are all going to be on average, 1:02:04.280 --> 1:02:06.200 you know, I can't say for every single person. Obviously, 1:02:06.280 --> 1:02:09.840 like on average more wealthy, more stable, they have family 1:02:09.880 --> 1:02:13.480 to back them, up. They have plenty of options, and 1:02:14.480 --> 1:02:18.120 I don't know, rambling a bit, but there's just a disconnect, 1:02:18.360 --> 1:02:21.880 you know, whenever reaching out to folk who won the 1:02:21.880 --> 1:02:23.120 birth lottery a little bit. 1:02:23.400 --> 1:02:23.800 Yeah. 1:02:24.240 --> 1:02:28.560 One of the most the most expensive article that we 1:02:28.680 --> 1:02:34.640 did Mady cast News earlier last month was about Maryland 1:02:34.760 --> 1:02:39.920 prisons and how they're basically torture chambers for trans women, 1:02:40.280 --> 1:02:43.560 as most prisons are, but it seems like they're especially 1:02:43.640 --> 1:02:47.160 bad in Maryland, you know, despite it being supposedly a 1:02:47.200 --> 1:02:50.320 safe trans to date, you know, seventy percent Democrats. And 1:02:50.360 --> 1:02:54.640 that was a kind of example of just like how unprofitable, 1:02:54.680 --> 1:02:58.040 how possible to not just unprofitable, because when you think unprofitable, 1:02:58.080 --> 1:02:59.240 it's like, oh, you're not making money. 1:02:59.280 --> 1:02:59.840 It's not about that. 1:02:59.880 --> 1:03:02.400 It's like if you're losing like eighty percent of the 1:03:02.440 --> 1:03:06.320 money you put into these articles because it takes so 1:03:06.440 --> 1:03:09.680 many Like I'm a very strong believer of paying people, 1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:12.120 you know, a living wage. So I was paying the 1:03:12.200 --> 1:03:14.880 journalists like well over twenty five dollars an hour for 1:03:15.000 --> 1:03:18.680 you know, dozens of hours of work, and that adds 1:03:18.760 --> 1:03:21.920 up really fast. And then court fee like pacer fees, 1:03:22.640 --> 1:03:25.040 all these other costs are adding up and it ends 1:03:25.080 --> 1:03:28.080 up being like around the thousand dollars for the single article, 1:03:28.400 --> 1:03:30.720 and it's a really important article that you know, raise 1:03:30.720 --> 1:03:33.680 a lot of awareness. Everyone in Maryland in the trans circle, 1:03:33.720 --> 1:03:36.040 they're talking about it. But at the same time, it's 1:03:36.040 --> 1:03:38.200 basically a charity product, right, This is why I'm trying 1:03:38.240 --> 1:03:41.000 to become a nonprofit because there's simply no other way 1:03:41.160 --> 1:03:44.160 to be able to fund this stuff. There's no capitalist 1:03:44.400 --> 1:03:47.240 model for reporting on trans women in prison. It's not 1:03:47.360 --> 1:03:50.440 a it's not something that people are you know, like 1:03:50.520 --> 1:03:52.360 I definitely get there's a lot of people who support 1:03:52.440 --> 1:03:54.640 us out of the goodness of their hearts, and that's 1:03:54.640 --> 1:03:56.680 really nice, but even that is not enough because of 1:03:56.960 --> 1:03:58.640 that's just how it is. There's just not enough people 1:03:58.680 --> 1:04:01.840 who care about these issues, especially the more intersectional it is. 1:04:02.400 --> 1:04:04.960 You know, even a lot of people in the queer 1:04:04.960 --> 1:04:08.480 community aren't as worried necessarily about people in prison. They're 1:04:08.520 --> 1:04:11.280 more aggorry about people not in prisons. And you know, 1:04:11.320 --> 1:04:14.000 of course everyone matters, but I think it's really important 1:04:14.000 --> 1:04:17.280 to focus on those most intersectional issues because when you 1:04:17.320 --> 1:04:20.440 really think about it, like prisons are basically you know, 1:04:21.520 --> 1:04:23.680 where they do everything they want to do to transform 1:04:23.840 --> 1:04:25.760 and aren't in prison. That's where they get to do 1:04:25.800 --> 1:04:28.040 all of it, and no one's looking on, no one's 1:04:28.080 --> 1:04:31.080 watching them, no one's holding them accountable. But yeah, I 1:04:31.160 --> 1:04:34.320 think it's basically a complete failing of capitalism. Like it's 1:04:34.560 --> 1:04:37.800 there's definitely be some outlets that, you know, maybe they 1:04:37.840 --> 1:04:39.960 could be doing better, but at the same time, a 1:04:40.000 --> 1:04:43.120 lot of the time it's basically, you know, be really shitty. 1:04:43.120 --> 1:04:44.560 The people are closed down. 1:04:44.400 --> 1:04:46.280 And neither of those are great options. 1:04:46.280 --> 1:04:48.480 And personally I would close down, but I can't tell 1:04:48.480 --> 1:04:50.560 other people what to do. And I think really it's 1:04:50.600 --> 1:04:53.720 a systemic issue that society doesn't care about us, that 1:04:53.760 --> 1:04:56.080 the sists, people who really should be funding these things 1:04:56.080 --> 1:04:59.080 and trying to solve these issues, just pretend like we 1:04:59.160 --> 1:05:01.280 don't exist, and you know, go go out of their 1:05:01.320 --> 1:05:04.320 way to even erase our presence even when we do, 1:05:04.640 --> 1:05:06.480 you know, create national needs. 1:05:16.720 --> 1:05:19.120 You know, I think part of part of the difficulty 1:05:19.320 --> 1:05:21.320 of it, right, and this specifically the way the transit 1:05:21.360 --> 1:05:24.560 she's functioned about. Class and journalism are a microcosm. It's 1:05:24.600 --> 1:05:26.600 like the most intense version of the stuff that's happening 1:05:26.600 --> 1:05:29.400 to the entire journalism industry, right or like, you know, 1:05:29.440 --> 1:05:31.200 part of what we're seeing is like is just that 1:05:31.320 --> 1:05:34.560 it's been the destruction of local news, right and and 1:05:34.680 --> 1:05:38.560 the product of this is that the only people who 1:05:38.600 --> 1:05:42.200 can be journalists are like a bunch of fucking rich 1:05:42.280 --> 1:05:45.840 dipshits and you know, like, yeah, you've all fucking read 1:05:46.120 --> 1:05:49.360 like New York Times columnists. Is like the platforming a 1:05:49.440 --> 1:05:52.640 genocide denier today, right, like that, and that's that's sort 1:05:52.680 --> 1:05:56.120 of the product of this. And it means that like 1:05:56.320 --> 1:05:59.520 unless like literally like people like you, the fucking listener, 1:05:59.560 --> 1:06:01.360 and I guess doesn't apply to you if you're you know, 1:06:01.480 --> 1:06:04.280 like statistically a good number of you are like you 1:06:04.360 --> 1:06:08.720 are also transgender and you make like fucking nine dollars 1:06:08.760 --> 1:06:13.400 an hour like running a forklift or something like. This 1:06:13.440 --> 1:06:15.320 is not this is not on you, Like I know 1:06:15.480 --> 1:06:16.680 much of you are gonna be like, holy shit, I 1:06:16.680 --> 1:06:19.120 actually give funy these people. It's like, okay, but like 1:06:19.400 --> 1:06:22.040 this stuff is only possible if people are actually fucking 1:06:22.080 --> 1:06:25.840 willing to support it, like until we can like fundamentally 1:06:25.920 --> 1:06:28.320 change the way that the entire political and economic system 1:06:28.680 --> 1:06:32.280 works in this country and in this world. And until then, 1:06:32.360 --> 1:06:35.360 it's like, yeah, like it's this is a fucking problem 1:06:35.440 --> 1:06:37.680 for like us here too, cause you know, like again, 1:06:37.720 --> 1:06:40.440 like I got fucking lucky, Like I am extremely dissimilar, 1:06:40.600 --> 1:06:42.480 Like I am the transferman, like one of the transfomens 1:06:42.480 --> 1:06:44.880 who you will hear from the most, and I have 1:06:45.000 --> 1:06:47.160 like a stable job. I haven't been homeless and I 1:06:47.200 --> 1:06:49.520 haven't done sex work, and this makes me completely unlike 1:06:49.800 --> 1:06:54.240 a huge portion of trans people, especially transforms, right, and yeah, 1:06:54.280 --> 1:06:55.640 it's like, yeah, I fucking colors is the way I 1:06:55.680 --> 1:06:58.800 do this shit in ways that like I don't see 1:06:58.880 --> 1:07:01.160 because like I haven't had to like do this shit, 1:07:01.240 --> 1:07:03.960 and this is a real fucking problem. The only way 1:07:04.000 --> 1:07:06.959 that it can not be like this is if people 1:07:07.000 --> 1:07:11.680 are actually willing to support the people who understand these 1:07:11.680 --> 1:07:15.320 things because they've fucking gone through it. And so your 1:07:15.360 --> 1:07:18.920 options are, like all of our stuff gets reported on 1:07:19.000 --> 1:07:22.080 by Jesse Sentall and we all fucking die, or we 1:07:22.120 --> 1:07:25.760 find trans journalism and we fight them and we all 1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:27.040 live in a fucking better world. 1:07:27.400 --> 1:07:31.240 My backup option if trans journalism doesn't work. You mentioned 1:07:31.280 --> 1:07:34.160 sex work is quite literally to write furry smut and 1:07:34.240 --> 1:07:35.120 hope that pays. 1:07:38.360 --> 1:07:41.320 The last year, The Ashville Blade marked our tenth anniversary 1:07:41.760 --> 1:07:44.200 so I think I think that is worth mentioning too, 1:07:44.400 --> 1:07:48.360 Like I think sometimes things and they truly are precarious, 1:07:48.400 --> 1:07:51.120 they truly are difficult in some ways, they're only getting 1:07:51.120 --> 1:07:53.919 more precarious and more difficult. But at the same time, 1:07:54.000 --> 1:07:57.880 despite our journalists being arrested, despite being kind of like 1:07:58.560 --> 1:08:01.880 targeted and ignored by a lot of liberals and even 1:08:01.920 --> 1:08:05.720 some leftists in town, we're still here. We're still doing journalism. 1:08:06.000 --> 1:08:08.800 We just put out a really powerful investigation about you know, 1:08:09.000 --> 1:08:11.280 more mouth yet more mouthfeasance in the police department. 1:08:11.800 --> 1:08:13.840 So so yeah, like it. 1:08:13.720 --> 1:08:14.400 Can be done. 1:08:14.440 --> 1:08:17.120 It's not impossible, and as tight as things are, there 1:08:17.200 --> 1:08:19.599 is also a lot of resilience and we do get 1:08:19.640 --> 1:08:21.960 a lot of very genuine support. I do think that's 1:08:21.960 --> 1:08:25.479 worth emphasizing too. So like there is strengthened, there is 1:08:25.560 --> 1:08:27.680 some hope here. Yeah, and you know, and again it's 1:08:27.720 --> 1:08:31.479 like it's it's not impossible. It just requires it requires 1:08:31.520 --> 1:08:34.240 a bunch of fucking work from the trans people who 1:08:34.280 --> 1:08:38.479 are doing it. And then also it requires you know, 1:08:38.600 --> 1:08:41.280 putting on my fucking MPR pledge to my voice. It 1:08:41.320 --> 1:08:45.639 requires viewers like you to you know, it requires people 1:08:45.720 --> 1:08:48.360 to care enough about it to support it and make 1:08:48.400 --> 1:08:51.160 it exist. And yeah, I think that's a that's a 1:08:51.240 --> 1:08:53.479 kind of good note to start sort of wrapping up. 1:08:53.640 --> 1:08:55.800 Do you have anything else that you want to make 1:08:55.800 --> 1:09:00.320 sure you get in? Yeah, before we move too plugs. 1:08:59.560 --> 1:09:03.479 I guess so yeah for me as I'm also kind 1:09:03.479 --> 1:09:05.760 of in that spectrum of like being a little bit 1:09:05.800 --> 1:09:09.080 more privileged as far as trans women go financially. And 1:09:09.400 --> 1:09:12.720 my message to other people who make especially since if 1:09:12.720 --> 1:09:15.679 you're a SIS person you make over one hundred thousand dollars, 1:09:15.720 --> 1:09:19.400 you're comfortable and you're feeling bad listening to this, you know, 1:09:19.520 --> 1:09:22.479 go give a trans person money, Go give my relazine money, 1:09:22.520 --> 1:09:25.120 Go give David Forbes money, Like we have to. We 1:09:25.200 --> 1:09:28.439 really need everyone to start pitching in, especially people who 1:09:28.439 --> 1:09:31.280 aren't trans, and we really need like it's it's literally 1:09:31.360 --> 1:09:33.960 life saving the money. Like, and I think one thing 1:09:34.040 --> 1:09:38.000 to consider is, you know, one thousand dollars to someone 1:09:38.000 --> 1:09:40.680 who makes a lot of money is completely different from 1:09:40.680 --> 1:09:43.679 one thousand dollars to someone who is like a month 1:09:43.680 --> 1:09:45.360 away from being homeless. 1:09:45.160 --> 1:09:47.320 And twenty dollars functions like that. 1:09:47.360 --> 1:09:51.280 Like, yeah, twenty dollars even like no, I know so 1:09:51.320 --> 1:09:54.240 many people like one thousand dollars, like they'll go, they'll 1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:57.679 spend a thousand dollars in a couple of weeks on restaurants. Right, 1:09:58.160 --> 1:10:01.200 And then there's people there's trans of a thousand dollars, 1:10:01.240 --> 1:10:02.920 it's like changed their life forever. 1:10:03.560 --> 1:10:10.280 The look on mirror's face, Like those people spend and 1:10:10.360 --> 1:10:12.400 I don't even do twenty thousand dollars a year on. 1:10:12.360 --> 1:10:16.720 Sushi, Holy shit, having worked in the service industry, Yeah. 1:10:16.280 --> 1:10:18.280 I feel bad when I spend like twenty bucks on 1:10:18.320 --> 1:10:19.840 Popeyes once a week. 1:10:19.880 --> 1:10:21.919 Like, yeah, exactly. 1:10:22.880 --> 1:10:25.320 So if you spend twenty thousand dollars a year on sushi, 1:10:25.400 --> 1:10:28.599 please spend nineteen thousand dollars a year this year and said, 1:10:28.640 --> 1:10:31.240 and give one thousand dollars to transperson. 1:10:31.600 --> 1:10:34.360 That's my advice for you. Double the income of a 1:10:34.400 --> 1:10:37.760 transperson today. This is also, like, you know, part of 1:10:37.760 --> 1:10:39.400 what I'm talking about with like the Great Depression, Like 1:10:39.800 --> 1:10:44.240 we don't live in the same economy that everyone else does, 1:10:44.280 --> 1:10:47.120 Like it is literally a different fucking world. And the 1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:50.880 more fucked you are, like down the fucking scale of 1:10:50.960 --> 1:10:53.760 like of like trans poverty, the more it's like you 1:10:53.920 --> 1:10:58.960 literally like the reality that like the people live in 1:10:59.120 --> 1:11:02.880 is just completely alien to you, it's like, what the. 1:11:02.760 --> 1:11:05.400 Fun want that kind of money? 1:11:08.000 --> 1:11:09.519 You're a David Diah Do you have anything else you 1:11:09.560 --> 1:11:10.439 want to say before. 1:11:10.200 --> 1:11:10.640 You like that? 1:11:11.280 --> 1:11:17.800 Please support trend journalists, please, Dear God. Please, everyone I 1:11:17.840 --> 1:11:21.519 know who is primarily a journalist for work is broke. 1:11:22.240 --> 1:11:24.120 We need the money, please, Dear God. 1:11:26.360 --> 1:11:31.599 Yeah I would, Yeah, I'd add to that. But another 1:11:31.640 --> 1:11:34.920 thing is, look, you should support trans jernals because trans 1:11:35.000 --> 1:11:37.600 people deserve to you know, to be supported and to 1:11:37.720 --> 1:11:41.240 be able to make a living. Also, frankly, we're really 1:11:41.240 --> 1:11:43.439 good at this, like generally as a whole, like we 1:11:43.520 --> 1:11:46.400 have a lot more perspective I think on how this 1:11:46.479 --> 1:11:50.760 healthscape social structure actually does and doesn't work, and a 1:11:50.760 --> 1:11:54.639 lot more determination to actually tell the truth in general. 1:11:55.280 --> 1:11:59.639 And so you know, dollars to the actual blade for example, 1:12:00.360 --> 1:12:05.360 or to or tamra ortomaticasts like they go to journalism. Yeah, yeah, 1:12:05.400 --> 1:12:08.960 you know, they're not going to like some baroque hierarchy 1:12:09.240 --> 1:12:13.640 of you know, of gentry administrators or something or CEOs like. 1:12:14.240 --> 1:12:18.599 It goes to journalism. It goes to actual interesting reporting 1:12:18.680 --> 1:12:21.479 and views and things that need to be said. So 1:12:22.360 --> 1:12:25.080 if people are even just looking if it's some journalism. 1:12:25.120 --> 1:12:27.080 It is something they care about or think needs to 1:12:27.080 --> 1:12:29.599 be stronger. This is the way to do it. 1:12:30.160 --> 1:12:32.479 Yeah, And like, like this is also a directly political 1:12:32.560 --> 1:12:34.320 thing because like the word that you'll do, like I 1:12:34.360 --> 1:12:37.120 have literally watched it change the sort of political landscape 1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:39.280 like that. That's just that's just like a thing that happens, 1:12:40.080 --> 1:12:41.559 you know, Like, and I think we're all we're all 1:12:41.640 --> 1:12:44.000 very cynical about sort of the power of like the 1:12:44.080 --> 1:12:46.200 truth to do anything, because it requires people to act 1:12:46.240 --> 1:12:49.639 on it. But you know, if you don't know anything 1:12:49.720 --> 1:12:52.720 is happening, it is not possible to act on something. Yeah, So, 1:12:52.880 --> 1:12:56.200 like you know, you are simultaneously you were supporting, like 1:12:56.280 --> 1:12:59.880 you're supporting trans people in like the most vicarious position 1:13:00.040 --> 1:13:04.000 you've been in in fucking ages. You are like supporting 1:13:04.080 --> 1:13:07.160 your supporting journalism and you are not even poking a stick. 1:13:07.200 --> 1:13:10.000 You are helping build a lance to like stab into 1:13:10.000 --> 1:13:12.679 the side of the people who are like destroying this world. 1:13:13.760 --> 1:13:17.760 And yeah, I think that's fucking important. So if if 1:13:17.760 --> 1:13:19.479 people want to support you, where do they go? Where 1:13:19.520 --> 1:13:19.880 do they go? 1:13:19.960 --> 1:13:20.600 Go? Go go go. 1:13:22.479 --> 1:13:25.080 Yeah, So if you want to support me, go to 1:13:25.280 --> 1:13:29.160 the free radical dot org. That that that is my newsletter. 1:13:29.840 --> 1:13:34.160 There's stuff to subscribe and and and give money. You 1:13:34.160 --> 1:13:36.040 can do a free subscription, you know, if you especially 1:13:36.120 --> 1:13:39.160 for Grope, please do a free subscription, like we don't. 1:13:39.200 --> 1:13:41.320 I don't need your twenty dollars. I'll give you my 1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:47.000 twenty dollars please. And also I have a cofi if 1:13:47.000 --> 1:13:49.880 you know need to like a one time saying, it's 1:13:49.960 --> 1:13:52.840 mirror Lousine. I'm the only one only mirrors and Losine 1:13:52.880 --> 1:13:57.600 on there. And if you subscribe, you're supporting some of 1:13:58.200 --> 1:14:03.000 the only trans anarchy national news coverage. Basically, and every 1:14:03.040 --> 1:14:04.760 single article I write, I try to find a way 1:14:04.800 --> 1:14:08.400 to shoot order anarchist theory and what fucking I'm sucking. 1:14:08.479 --> 1:14:10.439 Like my first article, I was like, hey, go check 1:14:10.479 --> 1:14:14.559 out crime Thing, the one who I published yesterday. I 1:14:14.600 --> 1:14:18.200 just I went on a whole like page long tangent 1:14:18.280 --> 1:14:20.880 where I'm like, okay, cool, So this is what more 1:14:20.920 --> 1:14:24.519 liberal people are saying. But here's go read Lorenzo komboa 1:14:24.640 --> 1:14:29.120 urban Go read coruery and anarchism, Go read this ship and 1:14:29.520 --> 1:14:32.479 yeah that's I just want to shoehorn anarchist theory and 1:14:32.720 --> 1:14:35.839 get more people will be anarchists. Yeah. 1:14:35.960 --> 1:14:39.400 Yeah, So if you ever want to support Maddie cast News. 1:14:40.160 --> 1:14:42.519 To be clear, I don't take any income from the website, 1:14:42.600 --> 1:14:45.240 actually having plant plans to put lots of money into it, 1:14:45.640 --> 1:14:49.040 but all of your money will be going towards supporting 1:14:49.080 --> 1:14:52.200 other trans journalists. So that's one way to you know, 1:14:52.280 --> 1:14:54.840 contribute to the cause. So or even if you just 1:14:54.880 --> 1:14:57.600 give me your email, I appreciate that too. But my 1:14:57.680 --> 1:15:00.640 website is maddiecast dot com and that's only one d 1:15:00.760 --> 1:15:05.599 so madycast dot com and round blueblis Guy too. It's 1:15:05.640 --> 1:15:08.640 the same website named and yeah, thank you. 1:15:09.240 --> 1:15:12.960 People can find our co ops work at Ashvillblade dot 1:15:13.000 --> 1:15:16.280 com and there's a giant link to our Patreon there. 1:15:17.360 --> 1:15:19.120 For fifteen bucks a month, you can get a lovely 1:15:19.160 --> 1:15:21.519 gentry Tears mug, which we're particularly proud of. 1:15:21.640 --> 1:15:24.679 It's so cool it rules. 1:15:26.080 --> 1:15:27.400 Thank you for the adorsement. 1:15:27.600 --> 1:15:30.639 And at the end of each article we have addition 1:15:30.720 --> 1:15:33.080 to our Patreon a link if folks just want to 1:15:33.120 --> 1:15:35.640 send us some one time support, we'll certainly put that 1:15:35.680 --> 1:15:38.920 to use as well, and if they would like to 1:15:38.960 --> 1:15:42.080 see some my personal writings about trans survival as well 1:15:42.120 --> 1:15:46.479 as some anarchists looks at various periods of history Patreon 1:15:46.560 --> 1:15:50.040 dot com slash David Forbes, if that is, if that 1:15:50.120 --> 1:15:51.000 is more of their cup of tea. 1:15:51.000 --> 1:15:53.280 Statistically, in our audience, I know there are a bunch 1:15:53.320 --> 1:15:56.439 of you whose special interest either is or could be 1:15:56.640 --> 1:15:59.080 medieval peasant uprisings. You are not going to find better 1:15:59.080 --> 1:16:03.920 writing on medieval and uprisings anywhere else. Yes, there is 1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:05.880 a limit to the extent to which you can actually 1:16:05.960 --> 1:16:08.960 talk about the structural problems that are happening, and you 1:16:09.000 --> 1:16:11.840 can't fucking talk about how to solve them. And this 1:16:11.880 --> 1:16:14.000 is also partially why I have a coxsault journalistic. I 1:16:14.080 --> 1:16:16.920 kind of jokingly refuse to call myself a journalist because, 1:16:17.000 --> 1:16:20.800 like I fucking I refuse to be associated with like 1:16:20.920 --> 1:16:24.679 all of those goddamn Atlantic motherfuckers who in institutional jobs 1:16:24.720 --> 1:16:27.479 to endanger trans people like you know. 1:16:27.479 --> 1:16:28.839 But also ground fascists. 1:16:28.840 --> 1:16:31.040 Though that's true, that's true, yeah, you know, because it's 1:16:31.040 --> 1:16:33.240 like we're the ones actually fucking doing this shit. But 1:16:33.280 --> 1:16:36.439 also yeah, like this is you know, to do my one, 1:16:36.520 --> 1:16:39.320 to do my one Karl Marx quote. It's like, you know, 1:16:39.520 --> 1:16:42.800 like philosophy has hitherto only sought to describe the world. 1:16:42.880 --> 1:16:46.479 The point is to change it. And that's a thing 1:16:46.600 --> 1:16:49.200 that we could that like, we like have the power 1:16:49.240 --> 1:16:52.040 to collectively do together. And that's something that like the 1:16:52.040 --> 1:16:54.920 New York Times does not want you to know that 1:16:55.000 --> 1:16:56.160 you can change things. 1:16:57.000 --> 1:17:01.479 Now. Yeah, they to borrow a term that David has 1:17:01.520 --> 1:17:05.599 recently gotten into my vocabulary. A bunch the gentry really 1:17:05.800 --> 1:17:08.439 fucking do not like the idea of solutions. Their idea 1:17:08.439 --> 1:17:11.040 of a solution is go vote for Pete Boudage Egg, 1:17:11.479 --> 1:17:13.400 go sign the acl YUS petition. 1:17:14.040 --> 1:17:17.960 Yeah, I want to read this, this fucking post that 1:17:18.000 --> 1:17:20.799 I saw forbout Kendra Rights about the New York Times, 1:17:21.040 --> 1:17:23.479 I think a lot about the top New York Times editor, 1:17:23.479 --> 1:17:25.519 who I told the historians were warning were in a 1:17:25.560 --> 1:17:28.120 similar period to the ramp up to the Holocaust and 1:17:28.160 --> 1:17:30.360 maybe we could look back and see what NYT had 1:17:30.400 --> 1:17:33.880 done wrong. Did not repeat his mistakes. He shrugged. New 1:17:33.920 --> 1:17:35.680 York Times didn't really cover the Holocaust. 1:17:36.040 --> 1:17:36.960 Oh my god. 1:17:37.320 --> 1:17:41.519 What So don't support these people, support the people who 1:17:41.600 --> 1:17:44.400 actually do this shit, you know, Like I go, I'm 1:17:44.400 --> 1:17:46.680 gonna I'm gonna make a kind of comparison. But it 1:17:46.720 --> 1:17:49.360 was like, at the time this shit was happening, there 1:17:49.479 --> 1:17:51.400 was a bunch of very good coverage of the Holocaust 1:17:51.479 --> 1:17:53.240 of what was happening, but it was because it was 1:17:53.240 --> 1:17:55.719 all happening from fucking like because it was like largely 1:17:55.800 --> 1:17:58.799 Jewish radicals who were doing it. All that shit fucking 1:17:59.080 --> 1:18:02.200 got ignored and shit that could have been fucking prevented wasn't. 1:18:03.160 --> 1:18:06.400 And we don't have to live in a world where 1:18:06.400 --> 1:18:09.360 that shit fucking happens, and we can make it not 1:18:09.560 --> 1:18:12.000 be like that. But like the structural, the structural like 1:18:12.200 --> 1:18:14.320 structural dature of the media is one of the ways 1:18:14.320 --> 1:18:17.680 that this fucking happens. And we don't have to let 1:18:17.760 --> 1:18:18.920 the New York Times do this again. 1:18:19.320 --> 1:18:21.439 No, And that's a good reminder there is another way 1:18:21.479 --> 1:18:22.240 with journalism. 1:18:22.360 --> 1:18:22.519 You know. 1:18:22.560 --> 1:18:25.960 Ido Well's was able to detail the extent and horror 1:18:26.040 --> 1:18:30.599 of American segregation and lynching and also called for people 1:18:30.720 --> 1:18:31.840 to shoot the clan. 1:18:32.120 --> 1:18:33.200 Yeah, this is the. 1:18:33.439 --> 1:18:35.479 You know, the modern idea that you have to be 1:18:35.560 --> 1:18:39.320 detached andeverably attached from pretty gentry perspective. You know, there's 1:18:39.360 --> 1:18:41.679 a world elsewhere, there's other ways to do things. 1:19:02.080 --> 1:19:04.719 Welcome to another episode, if it can happen here, I 1:19:04.760 --> 1:19:07.720 am your guest co host Bridget Pod, host of There 1:19:07.760 --> 1:19:10.040 are no girls on the Internet. I'm joined by the 1:19:10.080 --> 1:19:14.800 lovely Molly, host of award winning podcast on Pool Zone, 1:19:15.120 --> 1:19:16.040 Weird Little Guys. 1:19:16.520 --> 1:19:18.840 Molly, how you doing great? Glad to be here in 1:19:18.880 --> 1:19:20.000 bridget Okay. 1:19:20.040 --> 1:19:22.479 So I wish we were here to talk about all 1:19:22.520 --> 1:19:25.640 the exciting stuff going on in your life. But I 1:19:25.680 --> 1:19:27.880 wanted to bring this topic to the it could happen 1:19:27.880 --> 1:19:30.559 here audience because I live in the district. I know 1:19:30.600 --> 1:19:32.559 you're a Virginia Gail, so you might know a little 1:19:32.600 --> 1:19:34.479 bit more about how it works in the district than 1:19:34.520 --> 1:19:37.200 your average person. But I don't know that people really 1:19:37.320 --> 1:19:41.120 understand what is happening to residents of the District of 1:19:41.160 --> 1:19:44.040 Columbia like myself. So I live in DC. I've lived 1:19:44.040 --> 1:19:45.960 here for most of my life. I have a lot 1:19:46.000 --> 1:19:48.320 of like hometown pride. This is not just where I 1:19:48.400 --> 1:19:50.800 happen to live. It's like my city, my home. 1:19:50.880 --> 1:19:51.559 Do you know what I mean? 1:19:51.760 --> 1:19:55.240 And you don't have representation, It's true, right, It's something 1:19:55.280 --> 1:19:56.600 that infuriates me. 1:19:56.760 --> 1:19:59.160 And so you know, the first thing to know about 1:19:59.200 --> 1:20:01.040 DC is that it's it's not a state, so that 1:20:01.080 --> 1:20:04.920 means that what happens federally has a huge impact on 1:20:05.000 --> 1:20:07.639 the day to day minutia of the life of people 1:20:07.680 --> 1:20:08.799 like me who live in the district. 1:20:09.240 --> 1:20:11.599 If you don't live in the district, when it comes 1:20:11.600 --> 1:20:12.440 to decisions. 1:20:12.120 --> 1:20:15.560 About how your like local tax dollars are spent, that 1:20:16.400 --> 1:20:19.280 usually lies with like your state and local leaders. That's 1:20:19.360 --> 1:20:21.439 not really the case for me and the other like 1:20:21.520 --> 1:20:24.840 over half a million residents of the district. All of 1:20:24.840 --> 1:20:26.479 this has made worse but the fact that we are 1:20:26.600 --> 1:20:29.840 essentially disenfranchised just like you said, right, all of this 1:20:29.920 --> 1:20:32.400 stuff is playing out in our home, like all of 1:20:32.400 --> 1:20:35.000 these big national conversations are happening in our own backyard, 1:20:35.360 --> 1:20:39.080 and we arguably have less electoral power and agency because 1:20:39.120 --> 1:20:42.280 we aren't a state. Fun fact, DC residents only got 1:20:42.280 --> 1:20:44.200 the right to vote in nineteen. 1:20:43.800 --> 1:20:45.840 Sixty one in presidential elections. 1:20:46.240 --> 1:20:49.200 What I know, Like I didn't know that we have. 1:20:49.240 --> 1:20:51.360 Not been voting in presidential elections for very long when 1:20:51.360 --> 1:20:53.960 you think about it, in the fullness of time. So 1:20:54.000 --> 1:20:57.400 when people are like, oh, you know, call your congress person, 1:20:57.560 --> 1:21:00.760 call your lesson official to oppose x y Z, we 1:21:00.800 --> 1:21:03.760 really have like nobody to call our congressional representative. 1:21:03.760 --> 1:21:04.320 Eleanor Holmes. 1:21:04.400 --> 1:21:07.080 Norton cannot vote on bills that are being considered by 1:21:07.080 --> 1:21:09.719 the full House, and so we really just like don't 1:21:09.720 --> 1:21:12.120 have us say whenever those big campaigns are going on, 1:21:12.160 --> 1:21:14.040 I'm like, oh, it must be nice to have even 1:21:14.040 --> 1:21:16.120 if that person ignores you, it must be nice to 1:21:16.120 --> 1:21:17.280 have someone you can call. 1:21:17.520 --> 1:21:18.040 Wouldn't know. 1:21:18.720 --> 1:21:20.800 It almost seems disrespectful to be like, oh, yeah, you 1:21:20.800 --> 1:21:24.440 guys have a representative. But it doesn't do anything exactly. 1:21:25.240 --> 1:21:26.080 It's just vibes. 1:21:26.560 --> 1:21:27.559 It's just vibes. 1:21:28.400 --> 1:21:31.400 So all of this matters for Trump's return to my 1:21:31.479 --> 1:21:35.040 hometown because as President, Trump has a lot more authority 1:21:35.080 --> 1:21:37.879 to dictate how things are run locally for DC residents 1:21:37.920 --> 1:21:40.559 like myself. You know, we all know that the Trump 1:21:40.560 --> 1:21:43.479 administration is hell bent on making all of our lives worse. 1:21:43.760 --> 1:21:46.400 But imagine if Trump was also in charge of how 1:21:46.439 --> 1:21:49.880 your local police force in your city policed your city. 1:21:49.960 --> 1:21:52.160 Like that would be horrible, right, That. 1:21:52.200 --> 1:21:55.080 Sounds like a nightmare, And that is that threat is 1:21:55.160 --> 1:21:57.800 like literally the reality that we are faced with here 1:21:57.800 --> 1:22:02.479 in DC. So there's been some pretty big changes this 1:22:02.520 --> 1:22:05.560 time around in the Trump administration. During his first administration, 1:22:06.040 --> 1:22:08.800 I feel like Trump largely ignored DC like he would 1:22:08.800 --> 1:22:10.800 pick a fight every now and then, but he didn't 1:22:10.800 --> 1:22:13.719 really seem the meddle and how DC was run like locally, 1:22:14.280 --> 1:22:16.120 That does not mean that he was not like out 1:22:16.160 --> 1:22:19.240 in the district doing terrible things, which he very much was. 1:22:19.840 --> 1:22:23.439 You might recall in twenty twenty, during the racial Justice 1:22:23.479 --> 1:22:26.639 uprisings in the wake of George Floyd's death, Trump cleared 1:22:26.680 --> 1:22:29.360 protesters using chemical agents so that he could go out 1:22:29.400 --> 1:22:30.920 in front of Saint John's Church and. 1:22:30.840 --> 1:22:33.360 Like post upside down Bible Bible. 1:22:33.479 --> 1:22:35.760 Remember that distressing. 1:22:36.840 --> 1:22:37.680 It was distressing. 1:22:37.760 --> 1:22:40.560 I was there that day, and I'll say, like it 1:22:41.000 --> 1:22:45.200 was like genuinely very excessive. I'm not going to get 1:22:45.200 --> 1:22:47.439 into the nitty gritty of it, but in the aftermath 1:22:47.479 --> 1:22:50.080 of that event, internal reports made it clear that like 1:22:50.120 --> 1:22:53.080 it wasn't exactly clear what happened and underw what authority, 1:22:53.120 --> 1:22:56.600 Like was it DC's local police force, Metropolitan PD, was 1:22:56.640 --> 1:22:57.880 it federal Park Police? 1:22:57.960 --> 1:22:58.040 Like? 1:22:58.520 --> 1:23:03.120 It really underscored the of DC locally versus the federal government. 1:23:03.320 --> 1:23:05.759 And it doesn't help that there's half a dozen different 1:23:05.760 --> 1:23:08.519 police forces operating on any given block of d C. 1:23:08.760 --> 1:23:12.439 Oh my god, girl, Like you genuinely never know when 1:23:12.479 --> 1:23:15.400 you see flashing blue and red lights, you genuinely. 1:23:15.439 --> 1:23:18.759 It's like this could be federal, Like this could be federal. 1:23:18.840 --> 1:23:21.479 You never know if I just committed a federal traffic 1:23:21.520 --> 1:23:22.760 violation exactly. 1:23:23.479 --> 1:23:26.519 And so the New York Times actually described that event 1:23:26.840 --> 1:23:29.800 as quote a burst of violence unlike any scene in 1:23:29.840 --> 1:23:32.920 the shadow of the White House in generations, and possibly 1:23:33.160 --> 1:23:35.400 one of the defining moments of the Trump residency. And 1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:38.639 so I remember that as like a moment that played 1:23:38.680 --> 1:23:41.920 out nationally, but also it felt very local and like 1:23:42.120 --> 1:23:46.600 I think it underscored how we really felt the impacts 1:23:46.600 --> 1:23:50.599 of how militarized the city could locally get during Trump's 1:23:50.600 --> 1:23:53.519 first administration. So that was like something that really sticks 1:23:53.520 --> 1:23:53.880 out to me. 1:23:54.560 --> 1:23:57.920 I mean, I I rarely visit DC because I'm afraid 1:23:57.920 --> 1:24:00.840 of traffic, Like just the act of driving through northern 1:24:00.960 --> 1:24:03.280 Virginia too yet to d C is too frightening for me, 1:24:03.360 --> 1:24:05.639 So I try not to go. But I think people 1:24:05.680 --> 1:24:08.000 who don't live in the area don't think of DC 1:24:08.120 --> 1:24:09.880 as a place where people live. They don't think of 1:24:09.920 --> 1:24:13.040 it as anyone's home. Right, It's like Congress lives there, 1:24:13.240 --> 1:24:16.240 the laws live there, but like a lot of people 1:24:16.360 --> 1:24:18.240 live there, people who have nothing to do with the 1:24:18.320 --> 1:24:20.320 federal government, mostly a lot of black people. 1:24:20.360 --> 1:24:21.559 Honestly, I mean. 1:24:21.560 --> 1:24:23.920 DC used to be called chocolate City for a reason. 1:24:24.000 --> 1:24:26.479 These things were more like like a latte city. But 1:24:26.800 --> 1:24:31.280 exactly I can confirm that people don't think of the 1:24:31.840 --> 1:24:34.559 you know, over half a million DC residents who have 1:24:34.640 --> 1:24:37.040 nothing to do with the federal government sometimes who nothing 1:24:37.080 --> 1:24:39.719 with politics, who just like live here and is our home, 1:24:39.800 --> 1:24:42.160 Like I was born in DC, like this is I 1:24:42.200 --> 1:24:44.920 didn't just you know, move here to work in politics, 1:24:44.960 --> 1:24:47.320 like my family can be traced back to our roots 1:24:47.320 --> 1:24:50.320 in the district through generations. And so I have to 1:24:50.400 --> 1:24:53.920 be in my bonnet about this because I feel very unseen, 1:24:54.360 --> 1:24:56.080 and I think the way that the Trump administration is 1:24:56.120 --> 1:25:00.920 playing out, I feel like the reporting really can sometimes 1:25:01.080 --> 1:25:03.800 overlook the way that this is playing out in the 1:25:03.920 --> 1:25:07.799 lie the life of your average you know, DC resident 1:25:07.880 --> 1:25:09.840 who might have nothing to do with politics or you know, 1:25:09.880 --> 1:25:11.080 the federal government. 1:25:10.920 --> 1:25:13.600 Like seventh grader's trying to get to middle school. Exactly 1:25:13.680 --> 1:25:14.479 that exactly that. 1:25:15.520 --> 1:25:19.200 So during Trump's first administration, after the incident at Saint 1:25:19.240 --> 1:25:23.360 John's Church, our mayor, DC's mayor, Muriel Bowser. 1:25:23.240 --> 1:25:26.360 She's still the mayor. She's still the mayor. She's the mayor. 1:25:26.400 --> 1:25:27.920 She's a young girl, old and strong. 1:25:29.600 --> 1:25:33.160 She erected what became known as Black Lives Matter Plaza, 1:25:33.479 --> 1:25:36.599 where she wrote black Lives Matter in like big yellow 1:25:36.680 --> 1:25:37.960 letters outside of the White House. 1:25:38.000 --> 1:25:41.639 You remember this. I've had some unpleasant experiences in that zone. 1:25:41.720 --> 1:25:43.960 Yes, yes, you and me both. 1:25:44.160 --> 1:25:45.800 This could be a separate conversation. 1:25:46.439 --> 1:25:48.600 And so I will say when she did that, it 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:51.000 was largely like a symbolic move, and a lot of 1:25:51.080 --> 1:25:53.679 DC activists thought the mayor was kind of co opting 1:25:53.720 --> 1:25:56.800 or racial justice ethos that she didn't really embody and practiced. 1:25:57.080 --> 1:25:59.559 But I do think that that really is at. 1:25:59.400 --> 1:26:02.920 The tone for the mayor's relationship with Trump during his 1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:05.479 first term. Like she was defiant. She was someone who 1:26:05.479 --> 1:26:08.559 was going to stand up to him publicly. And something 1:26:08.600 --> 1:26:12.120 to know about DC's Mayor Muriel Bauser is that Jakinda 1:26:12.240 --> 1:26:15.880 has two modes. Defiant, like the version of herself that 1:26:15.960 --> 1:26:18.599 painted Black Lives Matter outside of the Trump White House, 1:26:19.000 --> 1:26:22.000 and then sort of diplomatic, right like somebody who like 1:26:22.080 --> 1:26:24.640 wants to find common ground, which I think is the 1:26:24.840 --> 1:26:27.000 is the version of her that we're seeing this time 1:26:27.080 --> 1:26:29.960 around that is very different than how she was the 1:26:30.040 --> 1:26:32.880 last time around, like she started trump second term sort 1:26:32.880 --> 1:26:35.680 of counting the goals they have in common, and like 1:26:35.760 --> 1:26:38.160 she met with him even before he was in office. 1:26:38.240 --> 1:26:41.519 And so I have a lot of critiques about DC's marriage, 1:26:41.680 --> 1:26:43.360 like anybody would have their political leader. 1:26:43.600 --> 1:26:44.400 But I do think it is. 1:26:44.400 --> 1:26:48.640 Important that folks understand that she is navigating something that 1:26:48.720 --> 1:26:51.880 literally no other elected official in the United States has 1:26:51.920 --> 1:26:55.040 to because of DC's lack of statehood. Like we our 1:26:55.120 --> 1:26:58.120 city is uniquely threatened by Trump, and she knows this, 1:26:58.240 --> 1:27:00.880 and Trump knows this, and so he really has to 1:27:01.040 --> 1:27:04.840 like walk a tight rope, greased and shit if you will. 1:27:05.560 --> 1:27:09.719 She's like navigating this public relationship with an unstable, lying 1:27:09.880 --> 1:27:12.240 fascist and has to do so in a way that's 1:27:12.280 --> 1:27:14.320 going to end up with like what's best for the city. 1:27:14.400 --> 1:27:16.920 So you could say whatever you want about Mayor Bouser. 1:27:16.600 --> 1:27:20.360 Like I certainly do, but this is a complicated thing 1:27:20.439 --> 1:27:25.160 to navigate. I do not advocate for anybody complying in 1:27:25.240 --> 1:27:29.439 advance with a fascist, but in this situation, I do 1:27:29.479 --> 1:27:31.840 think it's fair to ask life, well, would being defiant 1:27:31.920 --> 1:27:35.120 toward Trump make things worse for DC residents like myself? 1:27:35.160 --> 1:27:37.280 But it results in martial law in the city. 1:27:37.120 --> 1:27:40.320 Exactly exactly, So like, I don't like it, but I 1:27:40.520 --> 1:27:42.599 get it. I guess if there was like a mantra 1:27:42.960 --> 1:27:45.000 for my feelings on this, it's like, I don't like 1:27:45.080 --> 1:27:46.799 it at all, but I get it. 1:27:46.800 --> 1:27:50.280 It's a no win situation. It is a no win situation. 1:27:51.000 --> 1:27:54.160 And you know, Trump spent even when he was on 1:27:54.200 --> 1:27:57.479 the campaign trail before he was president, he talked this 1:27:57.520 --> 1:27:59.679 time around about how he was planning to take over 1:27:59.800 --> 1:28:02.639 this and because DC is not a state, like any 1:28:02.680 --> 1:28:06.000 president does have the authority to interfere with how DC 1:28:06.160 --> 1:28:08.599 is run. Like any president can take over the police 1:28:08.600 --> 1:28:11.040 department and the powers of the mayor and the DC 1:28:11.080 --> 1:28:15.240 City Council. Any president has the power to federalize DC's 1:28:15.280 --> 1:28:18.800 like local police force, metropolitan police, deputize the national Guard, 1:28:18.920 --> 1:28:22.200 and give law enforcement powers in DC, and activate the 1:28:22.240 --> 1:28:25.400 military and federal law enforcement agencies such as the park 1:28:25.439 --> 1:28:26.479 Police in DC. 1:28:26.720 --> 1:28:28.240 So oh, I didn't need so. 1:28:28.360 --> 1:28:30.920 Like the governor of any state has control of their 1:28:31.000 --> 1:28:33.839 national guard, but DC has its own national guard, right, correct, 1:28:34.040 --> 1:28:36.040 and they don't have a governor, so those are the 1:28:36.080 --> 1:28:37.120 president's national guard. 1:28:37.200 --> 1:28:41.040 Correct. That's not great, So it's not great. It's not great. 1:28:41.120 --> 1:28:44.840 And you know the prospect of just just like let 1:28:44.880 --> 1:28:47.719 that sink in the prospect of Trump having its own 1:28:47.800 --> 1:28:51.400 military and police force in the district. Like I cannot 1:28:51.439 --> 1:28:54.080 tell you how much this terrifies me. Like I cannot 1:28:54.120 --> 1:28:56.400 stress to listeners how much of a shit hitting the 1:28:56.439 --> 1:28:58.519 fan moment this would be for the city. To give 1:28:58.520 --> 1:29:00.559 you a sense, like I have a go bag, and 1:29:00.640 --> 1:29:02.840 I like, get the fuck out plan for that scenario 1:29:02.880 --> 1:29:03.400 playing out. 1:29:03.479 --> 1:29:04.760 Virginia's so close. 1:29:04.720 --> 1:29:07.559 I no, I mean yeah, honestly, anybody in the DMV, 1:29:07.640 --> 1:29:10.040 if you're in Maryland, Virginia, you should all be thinking 1:29:10.080 --> 1:29:23.680 about this. So Trump has continued to like pressure the 1:29:23.720 --> 1:29:26.800 mayor and threatening to like take over if she will 1:29:26.840 --> 1:29:29.599 not do the things that he says, things like clean 1:29:29.680 --> 1:29:30.280 up the city. 1:29:30.600 --> 1:29:32.360 Trump notified Mayor Bowser that she. 1:29:32.320 --> 1:29:35.160 Has to clean up all the unsightly homeless encampments in 1:29:35.200 --> 1:29:37.280 the district, especially around federal buildings. 1:29:37.640 --> 1:29:39.240 If she is not capable of doing. 1:29:39.000 --> 1:29:40.800 So, we will be forced to do it for her, 1:29:40.920 --> 1:29:41.320 he said. 1:29:41.720 --> 1:29:44.120 And so far, her strategy has really been one of 1:29:44.160 --> 1:29:49.280 like quiet appeasement, so that Black Lives Matter plaza that 1:29:49.360 --> 1:29:52.559 she erected in defiance during his first term that came. 1:29:52.400 --> 1:29:55.800 Down, did it really they'd painted over it? I think 1:29:55.840 --> 1:29:57.280 they they dismantled it. 1:29:57.920 --> 1:30:00.080 I think that they were like, Oh, we're going to 1:30:00.439 --> 1:30:03.960 like take it up so that it can go someplace else, 1:30:04.240 --> 1:30:07.559 but we're removing it from this part of the city, if. 1:30:07.479 --> 1:30:08.080 That make sense. 1:30:08.560 --> 1:30:10.760 That's I mean, that's a symbolic moment, right, just like 1:30:10.760 --> 1:30:13.040 pouring the asphalt over the words black Lives Matter. 1:30:13.520 --> 1:30:16.600 Yeah, And I do really think it it underscores this 1:30:16.760 --> 1:30:18.200 moment that we're in right now. 1:30:18.240 --> 1:30:20.599 Where it does, I mean, I'm curious for your thoughts. 1:30:20.680 --> 1:30:23.280 It does sort of feel like a pendulum swing in 1:30:23.320 --> 1:30:28.440 some ways where all of these like largely symbolic gestures 1:30:28.720 --> 1:30:33.840 are now like being bulldozed over, oftentimes like voluntarily, like 1:30:33.920 --> 1:30:36.120 without even really being pressured into doing so. 1:30:36.760 --> 1:30:36.840 Right. 1:30:36.880 --> 1:30:39.200 I guess it's hard, right because like painting Black Lives 1:30:39.200 --> 1:30:42.200 Matter on the sidewalk did nothing for black people, right, 1:30:42.280 --> 1:30:44.799 Like did that help you to that materially improve your life? 1:30:45.000 --> 1:30:46.280 No, it was purely symbolic. 1:30:46.720 --> 1:30:50.080 But negating that symbolic gesture I think does a lot 1:30:50.120 --> 1:30:52.400 more harm than never having had it, right, because that 1:30:52.439 --> 1:30:56.760 is a that is an imposition of will over over 1:30:56.880 --> 1:31:00.320 what was again a symbol that did nothing in accomplis nothing. 1:31:00.360 --> 1:31:03.640 It didn't actually help anyone or change any situation. But 1:31:03.920 --> 1:31:06.599 taking the time out of your day to bulldoze that 1:31:06.640 --> 1:31:08.400 symbol sends a strong message. 1:31:08.640 --> 1:31:12.080 I feel the exact same way, and Republican Representative Andrew 1:31:12.160 --> 1:31:14.720 Clyde actually wants it to go further. He introduced a 1:31:14.720 --> 1:31:18.000 bill that would have amended the US Code to withhold 1:31:18.080 --> 1:31:21.679 certain funds from DC unless Black Lives Matter was taken 1:31:21.680 --> 1:31:25.679 off the street and that area was renamed quote Liberty Plaza, 1:31:25.800 --> 1:31:28.360 and for the district to remove all Black Lives Matter 1:31:28.760 --> 1:31:31.920 Plaza references from city websites and official documents. So they 1:31:32.040 --> 1:31:34.320 want to like memory, hold it and be like it 1:31:34.360 --> 1:31:35.080 never happened. 1:31:35.680 --> 1:31:38.200 That's such cripeyby bullshit too for the like these free 1:31:38.200 --> 1:31:40.639 speech warriors right like, oh the facts don't care about 1:31:40.640 --> 1:31:42.360 your feelings. Free speech is the most important thing, like 1:31:42.400 --> 1:31:44.840 the marketplace of ideas, Like I guess you can't compete 1:31:44.840 --> 1:31:45.479 in the marketplace of. 1:31:45.479 --> 1:31:47.160 Ideas, buckoh exactly. 1:31:47.439 --> 1:31:50.360 Clyde said, quote it's time for our nation to leave 1:31:50.400 --> 1:31:53.679 this failed agenda behind, starting with the removal BLM plaza 1:31:53.760 --> 1:31:56.280 from America's capital. Trump is what one hundred percent right. 1:31:56.320 --> 1:31:58.840 We must clean up DC for the American people. I 1:31:58.920 --> 1:32:01.160 believe that removing ba m Plaza must be part of 1:32:01.160 --> 1:32:04.759 this critical effort. After all, BLM is a radical defund 1:32:04.760 --> 1:32:07.320 the police organization, but we are not a defund the 1:32:07.320 --> 1:32:08.040 police nation. 1:32:09.000 --> 1:32:09.720 So I know this. 1:32:09.840 --> 1:32:12.200 You know, clean up the city rhetoric is sort of 1:32:12.240 --> 1:32:15.480 fascist in and of itself, right, that that's scary rhet regardless, 1:32:15.800 --> 1:32:18.040 but pairing it with like back to back in the 1:32:18.040 --> 1:32:19.639 same breath, like we have to clean up the city, 1:32:19.680 --> 1:32:21.960 we have to get rid of BLM plaza. Like are 1:32:21.960 --> 1:32:24.880 you saying being reminded that black people have civil liberties 1:32:25.240 --> 1:32:27.840 is dirty to you? That that's what's making the city 1:32:27.880 --> 1:32:29.080 dirty is the black people. 1:32:29.320 --> 1:32:31.559 I would argue that's exactly what he's saying. But DC 1:32:31.800 --> 1:32:34.200 is like getting upset about black people. It's like going 1:32:34.240 --> 1:32:36.280 to the beach and getting upset with than when they're sand. 1:32:36.360 --> 1:32:36.519 Right. 1:32:36.520 --> 1:32:39.560 It's like, we could have a whole conversation about DC's demographics, 1:32:39.560 --> 1:32:41.760 but like a, we are a black city, like that 1:32:41.880 --> 1:32:44.080 is what makes DC what it is. It's like why 1:32:44.160 --> 1:32:46.800 I continue to live here? Right, It's like, I think 1:32:46.840 --> 1:32:49.160 that's exactly what he's saying. Is we don't want our 1:32:49.240 --> 1:32:52.840 nation's capital to be one that honors the you know, 1:32:53.080 --> 1:32:56.040 agency of black people, black bodies and black lives. 1:32:56.080 --> 1:32:57.839 Right, Like, I think that's like what he said. 1:32:57.720 --> 1:32:59.479 Then move the White House to South Boston. I guess 1:32:59.600 --> 1:32:59.960 I don't know what. 1:33:02.640 --> 1:33:05.880 So, you know, the mayor pretty quickly relented and bielm 1:33:05.960 --> 1:33:09.479 plazas no more. She basically said, like, you know, we've 1:33:09.479 --> 1:33:13.040 got bigger fish to fry, like focusing on DC's autonomy 1:33:13.080 --> 1:33:15.439 and budget, and to be honest, like a lot of 1:33:15.479 --> 1:33:17.800 residents agreed with her that like it probably was not 1:33:17.840 --> 1:33:18.439 worth the fight. 1:33:18.520 --> 1:33:20.240 That's kind of that's kind of the theme. 1:33:20.000 --> 1:33:23.880 Here, is that all of these little things that individually 1:33:23.920 --> 1:33:27.479 are probably not worth the fight, but then collectively you're like, well, 1:33:27.520 --> 1:33:27.960 who is. 1:33:27.920 --> 1:33:29.080 Sort of in charge of this city? 1:33:29.120 --> 1:33:31.320 You know when if none of these little things are 1:33:31.360 --> 1:33:32.719 worth the fight, are you fighting? 1:33:33.280 --> 1:33:36.000 That's a great question. Are you fighting? If nothing is 1:33:36.040 --> 1:33:37.439 worth the fight? Are you fighting? 1:33:38.000 --> 1:33:39.599 And I feel like that's kind of I don't know, 1:33:40.120 --> 1:33:43.360 on a larger scale, sort of the National Democratic Party's 1:33:43.640 --> 1:33:45.240 line has always been we got to keep a power dry, 1:33:45.240 --> 1:33:46.200 we got to keep her powder. 1:33:46.040 --> 1:33:47.840 Dry, keep it drive for fucking what, dog? 1:33:47.960 --> 1:33:48.120 Right? 1:33:48.840 --> 1:33:50.880 You're gonna end the war, you know, with a pile 1:33:50.920 --> 1:33:52.360 of bodies and a bunch of dry powder. 1:33:53.160 --> 1:33:53.720 Exactly. 1:33:55.080 --> 1:33:57.519 So the next demand that Trump made of Bowser was 1:33:57.840 --> 1:34:00.320 the need to clear homeless encampments near the White House, 1:34:00.320 --> 1:34:02.120 saying that if Bowser didn't do it, he would be 1:34:02.120 --> 1:34:04.640 forced to do it for her. So, within hours of 1:34:04.680 --> 1:34:08.360 Trump's call to Bowser, DC City Creuz arrived at these 1:34:08.439 --> 1:34:10.360 encampments to tell residents they had to be out the 1:34:10.360 --> 1:34:14.040 next day. It's not great, like, to be clear, it 1:34:14.120 --> 1:34:17.080 is not like our mayor does not clear encampments in DC. 1:34:17.280 --> 1:34:19.280 In fact, her administration said they had been planning to 1:34:19.320 --> 1:34:21.880 clear the encampment in question, but just doing so in 1:34:21.880 --> 1:34:23.920 like a more planned, rolled out way. So it's not 1:34:23.960 --> 1:34:27.400 like she's like someone who is not, you know, down 1:34:27.479 --> 1:34:30.680 with clearing encampments. The Washington Post spoke to some of 1:34:30.680 --> 1:34:33.400 the people who were residents of those encampments when they 1:34:33.439 --> 1:34:36.040 were cleared. Shelley Buyer's is someone they spoke to who 1:34:36.080 --> 1:34:38.439 has been chronically homeless in DC for three years. She 1:34:38.520 --> 1:34:40.320 was living at an encampment that was cleared in twenty 1:34:40.360 --> 1:34:42.280 twenty three before winding up at the one that Trump 1:34:42.320 --> 1:34:44.840 wanted cleared, and she said they were basically given no 1:34:45.120 --> 1:34:47.600 notice that they needed to vacate. She said, now we 1:34:47.680 --> 1:34:49.760 have only less than twenty four hours to get out, 1:34:50.000 --> 1:34:51.559 as she threw her clothing out of her tent. 1:34:51.800 --> 1:34:52.479 I liked it here. 1:34:52.520 --> 1:34:54.479 They keep shoving us off from place to place, making 1:34:54.479 --> 1:34:55.680 it so we don't have anywhere to go. 1:34:56.160 --> 1:34:57.479 The Post also spoke to the. 1:34:57.439 --> 1:34:59.880 President of Miriam's Kitchen, which is a big nonprofit here 1:35:00.120 --> 1:35:03.200 DC that provides services for the homeless, and he said 1:35:03.200 --> 1:35:05.599 that it wasn't even clear, like he wasn't even sure 1:35:05.600 --> 1:35:09.479 if the city followed proper protocols with this hasty encampment 1:35:09.520 --> 1:35:13.040 clearing at Trump's direction. Encampment residents are meant to be 1:35:13.080 --> 1:35:15.880 given two weeks notice, but people who were cleared so 1:35:15.880 --> 1:35:19.320 that they only learned about that action within twenty four hours. 1:35:19.320 --> 1:35:21.960 And so I think that's part of the issue here. 1:35:22.560 --> 1:35:26.440 DC, like any city, has issues like crime and homelessness, 1:35:26.439 --> 1:35:30.360 but like hitting people housed takes time. Like just wanting 1:35:30.400 --> 1:35:32.800 to quickly move people who might have anywhere else to 1:35:32.880 --> 1:35:36.200 go because they look, as Trump said, unseemly or unsightly 1:35:36.680 --> 1:35:38.840 is not solving the problem. What you're actually doing is 1:35:38.880 --> 1:35:42.360 just traumatizing people who are already vulnerable and then forcing 1:35:42.360 --> 1:35:44.480 them to go elsewhere, exactly like that woman. 1:35:44.240 --> 1:35:47.720 Told the Post, even in the best case scenario, even 1:35:47.760 --> 1:35:50.479 the most organized clearing of an encampment is I mean, 1:35:50.520 --> 1:35:53.519 it's violent, and it's inhumane, and it doesn't really serve 1:35:53.560 --> 1:35:56.000 a greater purpose other than I don't know, so that 1:35:56.040 --> 1:35:58.479 people don't have to think about homelessness on their way 1:35:58.479 --> 1:36:00.519 to work. But there is a way to do it 1:36:00.560 --> 1:36:05.160 that is, at least theoretically could result in something that 1:36:05.240 --> 1:36:07.880 is not monstrous, you know what I mean. Like I said, 1:36:07.920 --> 1:36:10.040 there's no good way to clear it encampment unless you're 1:36:10.080 --> 1:36:12.679 giving everyone an apartment. But right like, you're giving people 1:36:12.680 --> 1:36:15.720 two weeks notice, Lets social services get involved, lets them go, 1:36:15.880 --> 1:36:18.320 you know, tent to tent for those two weeks, talking 1:36:18.320 --> 1:36:21.200 to people about where they could go, giving them options, 1:36:21.200 --> 1:36:24.080 connecting them with services if that's what they choose. But 1:36:24.160 --> 1:36:27.000 if you're just rolling up overnight and throwing people' shit away, 1:36:27.040 --> 1:36:28.559 you're not You're not solving a problem. 1:36:28.560 --> 1:36:29.720 You're not even trying to solve a problem. You're not 1:36:29.760 --> 1:36:31.599 even pretending that you're trying to solve a problem. 1:36:32.080 --> 1:36:35.479 But I think that's exactly how Trump thinks about this issue. 1:36:35.479 --> 1:36:38.680 It's just like looks bad and unseemly to him. So 1:36:38.760 --> 1:36:40.200 I don't care where they go. I don't care how 1:36:40.200 --> 1:36:42.679 you do it. Just I don't want to be looking. 1:36:42.479 --> 1:36:44.759 At them, right, because for him, it's not about getting 1:36:44.760 --> 1:36:47.280 these people connected to services so that they might eventually 1:36:47.360 --> 1:36:49.479 find stable housing. It's about I don't want to fucking 1:36:49.479 --> 1:36:52.519 see these people because they're gross exactly. 1:36:52.040 --> 1:36:55.000 And like he is encroaching on how our city is run, right, 1:36:55.040 --> 1:36:57.360 and so like, if that is the ethos that you have, 1:36:57.520 --> 1:36:59.080 I don't want to see these gross people. I don't 1:36:59.080 --> 1:37:01.439 care where they go. This is not an ethos that 1:37:01.439 --> 1:37:04.600 that responsibly is able to run a city like that 1:37:05.080 --> 1:37:06.160 is really disruptive. 1:37:06.400 --> 1:37:09.880 Yeah, it's absolutely disruptive because they'll go somewhere else. They'll 1:37:09.920 --> 1:37:12.519 go somewhere else, and now their lives have been uprooted, 1:37:12.680 --> 1:37:14.720 they don't have maybe the documents got thrown away, and 1:37:14.720 --> 1:37:16.720 it's going to be even harder for them to find stability. 1:37:16.760 --> 1:37:19.800 Like you have not addressed the problem. 1:37:19.160 --> 1:37:22.639 Exactly, and I think that's what that's like the name 1:37:22.680 --> 1:37:25.040 of the game, with the way that Trump has already 1:37:25.080 --> 1:37:28.120 been you know, meddling in the way that DC runs 1:37:28.120 --> 1:37:32.360 its local affairs. This next example, I got to say, 1:37:32.360 --> 1:37:35.760 it really gets to me. So DC's Attorney General Ryan 1:37:35.800 --> 1:37:39.280 Schwab recently dropped a lawsuit against the Proud Boys and 1:37:39.280 --> 1:37:43.240 the Oathkeepers for their behavior during January six so. The 1:37:43.360 --> 1:37:46.080 suit was initially filed by the former DC Attorney General, 1:37:46.200 --> 1:37:46.559 carl A. 1:37:46.680 --> 1:37:47.120 Racine. 1:37:47.600 --> 1:37:50.120 It initially marks the first effort by a government agency 1:37:50.160 --> 1:37:53.519 to hold the individuals and organizations civilly liable for violence 1:37:53.560 --> 1:37:56.639 at the Capitol on January sixth, but a federal judge 1:37:56.640 --> 1:37:59.679 in DC granted the district's request to dismiss that case. 1:38:00.439 --> 1:38:02.880 The suit was fashioned after a modern version of the 1:38:02.920 --> 1:38:05.280 eighteen seventy one law known as the klu Klux klan 1:38:05.320 --> 1:38:07.799 At that was enacted after the Civil War to safeguard 1:38:07.840 --> 1:38:11.080 government officials carrying out their duties to protect civil rights. 1:38:11.400 --> 1:38:14.639 This is actually a similar challenge that prevailed against groups 1:38:14.640 --> 1:38:17.559 involved in the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, which Molly, 1:38:17.600 --> 1:38:18.960 I know you might know a thing or two about. 1:38:19.080 --> 1:38:22.599 Let's just see, very familiar with Clan Act lawsuits. 1:38:22.560 --> 1:38:24.559 And they are effective. They're effective. 1:38:24.560 --> 1:38:26.479 It's one of the only things that we still have 1:38:26.560 --> 1:38:29.120 from reconstruction that hasn't been taken away from us. Is 1:38:29.160 --> 1:38:31.720 this civil remedy for civil rights violations? 1:38:32.240 --> 1:38:34.000 And it works, it. 1:38:34.000 --> 1:38:36.760 Works, but like you have to carry it out, and 1:38:37.200 --> 1:38:39.759 basically the city decided that it wasn't worth it given 1:38:39.800 --> 1:38:42.760 all of the threats to DC's autonomy by the Trump administration. 1:38:43.240 --> 1:38:43.960 So it's extortion. 1:38:44.200 --> 1:38:46.280 I mean, yeah, like that's exactly what it feels like. 1:38:46.320 --> 1:38:47.719 I mean, this is extortion. 1:38:48.360 --> 1:38:51.360 They're being prevented, They're being prevented from seeking a viable 1:38:51.400 --> 1:38:55.520 civil remedy through the courts out of fear of retaliation. 1:38:55.880 --> 1:38:56.960 That seems very bad. 1:38:57.160 --> 1:39:00.240 It's like, I mean, I'm glad that you use the 1:39:00.240 --> 1:39:03.640 word extortion, because it really does feel like if you've 1:39:03.680 --> 1:39:05.880 seen one of my favorite movies, Goodfellas, it feels like 1:39:05.920 --> 1:39:10.000 what Henry Hill the mobster calls real grease ball shit, right, like, ooh, 1:39:10.360 --> 1:39:12.360 great city you have here. It would be a shame 1:39:12.439 --> 1:39:14.960 if something were to uh happen to it. 1:39:15.080 --> 1:39:20.160 Like extortion, right, God, But usually, I mean sometimes you 1:39:20.200 --> 1:39:22.240 get something out of a protection racket. DC's not even 1:39:22.280 --> 1:39:23.360 fucking getting anything out of it. 1:39:23.600 --> 1:39:26.680 I guess you could argue that they are like not 1:39:27.160 --> 1:39:30.160 raising the iyre further of the Trump administration and that 1:39:30.280 --> 1:39:32.720 like that might lead to DC having more autonomy and 1:39:32.800 --> 1:39:36.280 like DC, you know, like Trump officials not meddling in 1:39:36.360 --> 1:39:37.400 DC's affairs. 1:39:37.760 --> 1:39:39.759 I mean, I don't know if any of these people 1:39:39.760 --> 1:39:45.120 have read a book, but appeasing of fascist has historically 1:39:45.160 --> 1:39:46.960 not resulted in you getting what you want. 1:39:47.160 --> 1:39:50.719 No, And I gotta be honest, girl, this one's fucking stung. 1:39:50.880 --> 1:39:54.599 Like it sucks hearing people like the Proud Boys leader 1:39:54.680 --> 1:39:59.040 Enrique Terrio basically brag about having this case dropped. The 1:39:59.080 --> 1:40:02.400 Oathkeeper's founder, Stuart Rhoades, his attorney, said, we are very 1:40:02.400 --> 1:40:04.400 pleased to see the District of Columbia has come to 1:40:04.439 --> 1:40:06.960 the same conclusion that the American public and President Trump 1:40:07.000 --> 1:40:09.479 have the narrative that January sixth was some sort of 1:40:09.560 --> 1:40:12.320 armed insurrection to overthrow the government plus falls from the 1:40:12.400 --> 1:40:17.040 very beginning. Enriquetario posted after the district requested to dismiss 1:40:17.080 --> 1:40:20.400 this lawsuit, saying another exoneration. If God is with us, 1:40:20.439 --> 1:40:23.040 who can be against us? Like it just chaps my 1:40:23.080 --> 1:40:24.200 ass to hear this shit. 1:40:24.360 --> 1:40:26.559 Like God didn't do this, baby, God didn't do this. 1:40:28.080 --> 1:40:32.840 You also have DC's Metro Police investigating the vandalization of 1:40:32.920 --> 1:40:38.040 tesla's as a hate crime. This again, like it really 1:40:38.080 --> 1:40:41.120 makes me wonder, Like, as far as I know, Trump 1:40:41.240 --> 1:40:44.120 is not in charge of our Metropolitan Police Department, but 1:40:44.160 --> 1:40:45.240 stuff like this makes me wonder. 1:40:45.280 --> 1:40:46.679 We're like, is he a kind. 1:40:46.479 --> 1:40:47.040 Of in charge? 1:40:47.080 --> 1:40:48.840 I mean, pressure's clearly being exact. 1:40:49.240 --> 1:40:52.679 Basically, somebody wrote quote political hate speech on a Tesla. 1:40:53.320 --> 1:40:55.559 The statement from the Metropolitan Police Departments that they were 1:40:55.560 --> 1:41:00.240 investigating these offenses as being motivated by hate or bias clear. 1:41:00.439 --> 1:41:03.080 Mayor Bowser was like, I didn't tell them to do this, 1:41:03.160 --> 1:41:04.559 Like she was like, I have nothing to do with 1:41:04.680 --> 1:41:07.280 the police department's decision making on this, Like that's them. 1:41:07.600 --> 1:41:11.920 I hate crime typically implicates a protected class like race, gender, religion, 1:41:12.080 --> 1:41:14.600 national origin. What is the protected class of being a 1:41:14.600 --> 1:41:17.479 Tesla owner? It's like it's being a big loser of 1:41:17.520 --> 1:41:19.960 protected class unclear. 1:41:20.000 --> 1:41:22.880 And they wouldn't even say, like what was the nature 1:41:22.920 --> 1:41:25.120 of what was written on this car that made it 1:41:25.360 --> 1:41:28.160 a potential hate crime? Like we don't even know, which is. 1:41:28.120 --> 1:41:31.640 So funny because these guys never believed in hate crimes before, unless. 1:41:31.320 --> 1:41:34.000 It's against like Elon Musk and people who like him. 1:41:34.280 --> 1:41:35.280 Something that's the best I. 1:41:35.200 --> 1:41:39.240 Can figure, but I've heard full throadd arguments against the 1:41:39.280 --> 1:41:41.679 existence of the category of hate crime, and now suddenly 1:41:41.680 --> 1:41:44.280 they're very important. Yeah, now they're very important. 1:41:43.920 --> 1:41:45.920 And I do you think I mean, like, when I 1:41:45.960 --> 1:41:48.839 heard about this, it really made me think about how 1:41:49.400 --> 1:41:53.000 different categories of crime and legislation around it is like 1:41:53.160 --> 1:41:55.680 very well intended and well meaning, and like I understand 1:41:55.960 --> 1:41:58.880 who hate crime legislation is meant to protect, but then 1:41:59.000 --> 1:42:01.120 you also have the ways it can be sort of 1:42:01.160 --> 1:42:05.320 like perverted to protect a protective class that is not 1:42:05.360 --> 1:42:06.920 a protected class, right, Like it. 1:42:06.960 --> 1:42:09.240 I mean, it's the same as the language around terrorism, 1:42:09.320 --> 1:42:11.800 right that, Like, terrorism wasn't something that we were talking 1:42:11.840 --> 1:42:13.960 about or charging. It's not even very well defined in 1:42:14.000 --> 1:42:16.439 the law, to be honest, But it's something that became 1:42:16.520 --> 1:42:19.320 part of the conversation when America became very afraid of Muslims, 1:42:19.360 --> 1:42:21.960 became very afraid of Middle Eastern people, Right, So terrorism 1:42:22.040 --> 1:42:24.840 had that implication for a very long time, and then 1:42:24.840 --> 1:42:26.760 there was this brief window in the last couple of 1:42:26.840 --> 1:42:29.880 years where they were using it against domestic white extremists. 1:42:30.200 --> 1:42:32.439 And now they're not doing that anymore, and they're just 1:42:32.479 --> 1:42:34.960 going to charge you with terrorism. For looking sideways at 1:42:34.960 --> 1:42:36.000 a Tesla exactly. 1:42:36.560 --> 1:42:39.120 Here's how my co host and friend Michael Schaeffer, who 1:42:39.280 --> 1:42:41.880 writes the Capital City's column for Political put it. He says, 1:42:42.479 --> 1:42:45.080 now the White House is beating the drums about Tesla vandalism, 1:42:45.120 --> 1:42:48.120 creating another incentive for locals to play ball. The FBI 1:42:48.200 --> 1:42:52.360 director called Tesla vandalism domestic terrorism. The President suggested sending 1:42:52.400 --> 1:42:55.800 vandals to jail and El Salvador if likening the run 1:42:55.840 --> 1:42:58.680 of the mill political graffiti to criminal bigotry, it's what 1:42:58.720 --> 1:43:01.160 it takes to keep the feds from have locking city Hall. 1:43:01.360 --> 1:43:03.160 The logic goes, maybe it's worth it. 1:43:03.360 --> 1:43:04.680 No, it's not. I would say it's not. 1:43:05.040 --> 1:43:07.560 No, it's not Maybe they want to do through you 1:43:07.720 --> 1:43:11.000 extraordinary rendition to vandals, but maybe it's worth No. 1:43:11.040 --> 1:43:12.800 It's not worth it, babe, it's not worth it. 1:43:12.960 --> 1:43:14.800 You're not gonna you're not holding back the tide of 1:43:14.800 --> 1:43:16.920 fascism if you allow fascism to happen. 1:43:17.960 --> 1:43:21.920 Unlike local governments in Cleveland or Boston, DC is really 1:43:22.000 --> 1:43:25.040 stuck between a rock and a hard place. And I mean, like, 1:43:25.439 --> 1:43:32.040 I understand why city officials are taking this like appeasement angle, 1:43:32.360 --> 1:43:35.559 but like I guess, as you said, like, I don't 1:43:35.560 --> 1:43:37.040 know how you can make the argument that it's like 1:43:37.200 --> 1:43:40.400 worth it, Like, what are we getting if every single 1:43:40.479 --> 1:43:43.320 day it's going to be a new threat to DC's autonomy, 1:43:43.320 --> 1:43:45.680 a new threat to DC, a new EO from the 1:43:45.720 --> 1:43:46.560 Trump administration? 1:43:46.680 --> 1:43:49.800 What are we really getting by playing ball in this way? Right? 1:43:49.840 --> 1:43:51.560 And if you're saying you're saving your energy for the 1:43:51.600 --> 1:43:53.400 big fight, it's like, well, what do you think the 1:43:53.400 --> 1:43:55.080 big fight is going to be If it's not the 1:43:55.240 --> 1:43:58.160 slow erosion of the safety and civil liberties of everyone 1:43:58.160 --> 1:44:03.000 who lives here. Exactly what is the big fight? 1:44:10.800 --> 1:44:14.120 Well, some might say the big fight is DC's tense 1:44:14.240 --> 1:44:17.240 budget showdown, which is ongoing. It's a little in the 1:44:17.240 --> 1:44:19.040 weed ze, So like, I'm not going to get too 1:44:19.080 --> 1:44:20.599 too into it, but I'll try to give the quick 1:44:20.640 --> 1:44:23.080 and dirty version of what's going on. The district is 1:44:23.120 --> 1:44:26.000 overseen by Congress thanks to provision in the Constitution, So 1:44:26.160 --> 1:44:29.040 this means that DC is occasionally treated like a federal 1:44:29.080 --> 1:44:31.280 agency rather than like a city or a local government 1:44:31.560 --> 1:44:34.839 under various laws. This used to mean that DC's budget 1:44:34.880 --> 1:44:37.240 was regularly delayed. Because of this, The city had to 1:44:37.240 --> 1:44:40.760 wait for Congress to approve DC's local budget alongside other 1:44:40.840 --> 1:44:44.360 federal agencies, which Congress is like almost never does on time. 1:44:44.600 --> 1:44:46.960 So pretty much everybody agreed like this was a problem. 1:44:47.240 --> 1:44:49.200 So in the early two thousands they changed it so 1:44:49.240 --> 1:44:52.200 that as Congress was behind schedule, DC could just keep 1:44:52.240 --> 1:44:55.959 spending at its current budget levels without disruption until Congress 1:44:56.000 --> 1:44:58.760 is able to formally approve a new budget. But in 1:44:58.920 --> 1:45:02.200 March that alt change because the language was omitted from 1:45:02.240 --> 1:45:04.760 a new funding bill that Congress passed in March that 1:45:04.800 --> 1:45:08.920 would basically force DC to omit one billion dollars from 1:45:08.960 --> 1:45:12.040 its budget. This to be clear, like, if DC were 1:45:12.080 --> 1:45:14.960 to omit one billion dollars from the budget, we basically 1:45:15.000 --> 1:45:16.680 could not function as a city. The things that you 1:45:16.720 --> 1:45:19.680 need to run a city, schools, garbage collection, all of 1:45:19.720 --> 1:45:21.400 that would be cut to the point of like not 1:45:21.520 --> 1:45:23.800 being viable. I'm not even sure what that would mean 1:45:24.280 --> 1:45:26.879 for the city to make that deep of a cut. 1:45:27.080 --> 1:45:32.320 And the worst part is nobody really knows why Congress 1:45:32.360 --> 1:45:34.600 did this. Like, in my capacity as co host for 1:45:34.680 --> 1:45:37.760 a local DC podcast, City CASTC, I've spoken to a 1:45:37.800 --> 1:45:40.800 lot of people in DC government and reporters, and the 1:45:40.840 --> 1:45:43.240 best I can come up with is that Congress just 1:45:43.240 --> 1:45:46.080 really does not understand what they have done. A reporter 1:45:46.160 --> 1:45:48.040 that I spoke to you said that there seemed to 1:45:48.080 --> 1:45:51.519 be confusion with lawmakers that we were talking about DC's 1:45:51.640 --> 1:45:54.760 local tax money and not federal money. And so this 1:45:54.920 --> 1:45:59.240 was happening in March, during the height of like doge efficiency. 1:45:59.280 --> 1:46:01.479 I'm putting a fish see in like heavy scare quotes. 1:46:01.800 --> 1:46:03.920 It was at the height of that, and so the 1:46:03.960 --> 1:46:07.679 best I could think was that lawmakers thought, like, oh, 1:46:07.760 --> 1:46:10.080 this will we will be able to like say that, 1:46:10.400 --> 1:46:13.200 you know, making DC cut a billion dollars from the 1:46:13.200 --> 1:46:17.400 budget will be a big show of federal tax dollar savings. 1:46:17.479 --> 1:46:19.599 But we're not talking about federal money. We're talking about 1:46:19.640 --> 1:46:22.559 local tax money, not federal money. Doesn't save anybody any 1:46:22.600 --> 1:46:25.840 federal money. And so I think that from what I've heard, 1:46:26.280 --> 1:46:28.760 it sounds like people like Mike Johnson just maybe like 1:46:28.880 --> 1:46:31.599 did not really have a good understanding of that. It 1:46:31.680 --> 1:46:33.799 is a little bit complicated, but like if you're a lawmaker, 1:46:33.840 --> 1:46:35.559 like come on, dude, but. 1:46:35.520 --> 1:46:38.479 Again, because you have no representative who is really involved 1:46:38.479 --> 1:46:41.160 in this process, Like there's nobody in that room going 1:46:41.160 --> 1:46:43.360 to bat for DC. There's nobody in that room whose 1:46:43.400 --> 1:46:47.599 constituency is DC, who understands what it means to run 1:46:47.720 --> 1:46:48.920 DC exactly. 1:46:49.360 --> 1:46:52.000 And what's funny is that, like for all the talk 1:46:52.040 --> 1:46:54.519 about like how how like we're not a defund the 1:46:54.520 --> 1:46:57.599 police nation, this bill would kind of defund DC police. 1:46:57.600 --> 1:46:58.160 It would have to. 1:46:58.200 --> 1:46:59.439 Mean who defund everything? 1:46:59.600 --> 1:47:01.679 Like it would' I mean like sixty seven million dollars 1:47:01.720 --> 1:47:04.080 caught from the DC police budget, along with cutting funding 1:47:04.120 --> 1:47:06.759 for DC public schools and the Department of Human Services, 1:47:06.760 --> 1:47:09.240 which serves the city's forest residents. Right, So, like it 1:47:09.240 --> 1:47:10.800 would defund everything. 1:47:10.560 --> 1:47:11.599 Including the police. 1:47:11.600 --> 1:47:13.599 So it's like funny to be like, we're not down 1:47:13.600 --> 1:47:15.599 with defund the police, but we are down with this 1:47:15.680 --> 1:47:17.600 bill that kind of does it. 1:47:17.760 --> 1:47:19.640 We're like, who do you think is gonna fill the potholes? 1:47:20.040 --> 1:47:22.040 Who's gonna mow the grass? Like nothing will get done, 1:47:22.040 --> 1:47:22.960 the city will fall apart. 1:47:23.000 --> 1:47:25.560 Well, so our mayor has really been doing her diplomacy 1:47:25.600 --> 1:47:28.599 thing and appealing to exactly that, right, Like Trump has 1:47:28.640 --> 1:47:30.880 been really clear about all these goals he has for 1:47:30.920 --> 1:47:33.920 the district, like beautifying DC and cracking down on crime 1:47:33.960 --> 1:47:36.360 and homelessness. There is no way to do that if 1:47:36.360 --> 1:47:38.720 you are slashing the budgets of these departments that are 1:47:38.800 --> 1:47:41.080 meant to work on those things by tens of millions 1:47:41.120 --> 1:47:41.639 of dollars. 1:47:41.880 --> 1:47:43.240 Who's gonna prune the cherry trees? 1:47:43.520 --> 1:47:43.880 Donald? 1:47:43.920 --> 1:47:44.920 I mean it Tho's gonna prove. 1:47:44.920 --> 1:47:47.639 Almost as if Trump doesn't really care about doing any 1:47:47.680 --> 1:47:49.599 of this stuff. He's just like talking big and doesn't 1:47:49.600 --> 1:47:51.320 give a shit about how it actually plays out. 1:47:51.479 --> 1:47:53.439 He doesn't know how anything works. 1:47:54.000 --> 1:47:57.120 Yeah, I mean that's really the bottom line for me 1:47:57.280 --> 1:48:02.160 is that when you have Trump loudly talking about the 1:48:02.160 --> 1:48:03.920 ways that he is meddling in the way that DC 1:48:04.120 --> 1:48:08.680 is run, He's not someone who is good at efficiently governing. 1:48:08.760 --> 1:48:11.040 And so like, you know, say what you little about DC? 1:48:11.320 --> 1:48:14.000 We had a function we have a functioning local government, 1:48:14.000 --> 1:48:17.680 a functioning city. Putting somebody like Trump in charge of 1:48:17.720 --> 1:48:20.880 how things get done, what happens to encampments, what happens 1:48:20.880 --> 1:48:23.599 to education, what happens to crime? Like, like, that's just 1:48:23.720 --> 1:48:25.639 a terrible, terrible move for the city. 1:48:26.160 --> 1:48:28.000 I mean it's like, you know, at a shitty retail job, 1:48:28.040 --> 1:48:30.040 you get a new assistant store manager and they try 1:48:30.040 --> 1:48:31.680 to change the way the schedule gets made just so 1:48:31.720 --> 1:48:33.360 they can look like they're doing something, so they can 1:48:33.400 --> 1:48:35.360 feel like they're in charge, and it's like, yeah, dog, 1:48:35.400 --> 1:48:37.640 that's just not how things work at this store, Like 1:48:37.720 --> 1:48:39.880 it won't function if the keyholder doesn't open. 1:48:40.360 --> 1:48:43.360 I wish I could tell Trump that, Like I'm taken 1:48:43.439 --> 1:48:45.400 back to my days of working retail at the mall 1:48:45.560 --> 1:48:48.559 or where you could just be like, actually, Greg, that's 1:48:48.560 --> 1:48:50.280 not how it works here at this Claire's. 1:48:51.920 --> 1:48:54.759 I used to work at Claires. It just won't work 1:48:54.840 --> 1:48:55.160 like that. 1:48:56.640 --> 1:48:58.680 Like, I know you're very important and you're in charge here, 1:48:58.720 --> 1:49:00.000 but it's just like it won't work. 1:49:00.160 --> 1:49:01.120 It won't work. 1:49:02.080 --> 1:49:05.200 So yeah, I mean, as of today, there has not 1:49:05.320 --> 1:49:08.920 been a vote on DC's budget. Trump actually signaled that 1:49:08.920 --> 1:49:11.280 he is on board for a fix that would prevent 1:49:11.439 --> 1:49:13.360 this billion dollar cut, and he urged the Senate to 1:49:13.439 --> 1:49:15.519 vote for it. He posted, the House should take up 1:49:15.520 --> 1:49:18.200 the DC funding fix that the Senate passed and get 1:49:18.200 --> 1:49:21.519 it done immediately, all caps. But everybody's on recess and 1:49:21.560 --> 1:49:24.040 so in the meantime, like it's not clear what's going 1:49:24.080 --> 1:49:26.360 to happen, And the city did announce that they're looking 1:49:26.400 --> 1:49:29.679 at making cuts and furlowing staff because it's not clear 1:49:29.840 --> 1:49:30.639 what's going to happen. 1:49:31.040 --> 1:49:33.000 So, you know, so it's not It's not that the 1:49:33.040 --> 1:49:35.080 city doesn't have them. It's not like the city's broke. 1:49:35.160 --> 1:49:37.120 Like the city has the money, they're just not allowed 1:49:37.120 --> 1:49:37.680 to budget it. 1:49:37.800 --> 1:49:41.519 Yes, exactly that and for no reason. Problems. It's a 1:49:41.560 --> 1:49:43.160 fake but it's a fake problem. 1:49:43.439 --> 1:49:46.599 But again, I don't know that people like Mike Johnson 1:49:46.720 --> 1:49:49.519 understand that there are people who live here who you know, 1:49:50.000 --> 1:49:51.640 just want to have their trash taken out, just want 1:49:51.680 --> 1:49:53.080 to be able to educate their kids, just want to 1:49:53.080 --> 1:49:55.200 be able to like live our lives in the city. 1:49:55.240 --> 1:49:57.320 And I think I've said this on it could happen 1:49:57.320 --> 1:49:57.799 here before. 1:49:57.840 --> 1:50:00.680 But I have to feel like it's punitive, right like 1:50:01.160 --> 1:50:05.120 DC nobody didn't vote for Trump, Like DC didn't vote 1:50:05.120 --> 1:50:09.320 for Trump, like you know, Nicky Hayley won DC's Republican primary, 1:50:09.360 --> 1:50:11.120 not even Trump, right, so, like we have made it 1:50:11.200 --> 1:50:12.599 very clear that we don't like him and we don't 1:50:12.600 --> 1:50:14.920 want him here. And I guess I just have to 1:50:14.960 --> 1:50:17.719 say the only thing that makes sense as to why 1:50:18.200 --> 1:50:20.280 Congress would do this it's punitive, is to be like 1:50:20.640 --> 1:50:24.400 fuck DC and the progressive, hippie, dippy educated people who 1:50:24.400 --> 1:50:26.400 live there, Like it just feels like like a punitive 1:50:26.439 --> 1:50:27.879 attack on the district. 1:50:28.400 --> 1:50:31.360 But again just like shooting themselves in the dick, because 1:50:31.400 --> 1:50:34.000 like if the city falls apart, like you still work here, 1:50:34.160 --> 1:50:35.800 you still have to drive on the streets here. 1:50:36.760 --> 1:50:40.519 Well, I mean, if Trump gets his way and DC 1:50:40.760 --> 1:50:43.360 just becomes like a instead of a city, like a 1:50:43.400 --> 1:50:47.600 military compound that is controlled by like his goons. 1:50:48.280 --> 1:50:50.280 Like it's sort of a like a Trump Vatican City 1:50:50.280 --> 1:50:52.799 where he's the king of this little tiny country. 1:50:52.880 --> 1:50:56.559 That is my ultimate, biggest fear about what is on 1:50:56.600 --> 1:50:59.120 the horizon for DC. That is like the ultimate ultimate 1:50:59.280 --> 1:51:02.400 like negative fear that I have. 1:51:02.920 --> 1:51:05.920 And I guess bottom line is like this is. 1:51:05.840 --> 1:51:09.880 Why DC needs statehoods, Like we are facing such unique 1:51:09.920 --> 1:51:12.519 threats from the Trump administration that no other place in 1:51:12.560 --> 1:51:15.599 the United States faces. You know, there are a million 1:51:15.680 --> 1:51:17.840 reasons for DC to become a state, but this just 1:51:17.920 --> 1:51:20.280 I think that the way that Trump is acting. 1:51:20.000 --> 1:51:23.440 Toward our city, toward our mayor toward our council. 1:51:23.720 --> 1:51:26.280 With regards to our budget, like it all just makes 1:51:26.320 --> 1:51:28.920 so much sense that our residents should not be at 1:51:28.920 --> 1:51:30.880 the behest of somebody like Trump. 1:51:30.840 --> 1:51:33.040 To have our city run the way that we want 1:51:33.040 --> 1:51:35.360 it to be run. And yeah, it just doesn't make sense. 1:51:35.400 --> 1:51:36.000 It doesn't make sense. 1:51:36.000 --> 1:51:38.200 It doesn't the city should be able to make its 1:51:38.240 --> 1:51:40.760 own budget. There's no reason for it to function like this. 1:51:41.120 --> 1:51:44.400 There is no reason for it. So from your lips 1:51:44.439 --> 1:51:45.360 to God's ears. 1:51:47.520 --> 1:51:49.960 Yeah, So, like, I guess what should people look for, 1:51:50.040 --> 1:51:52.120 Like what's the next step in this process? 1:51:52.240 --> 1:51:54.040 Like when's the next vote on this? 1:51:54.600 --> 1:51:58.000 So when lawmakers are back in session, we should have 1:51:58.040 --> 1:52:00.519 some sense of what's going on with DC's budget. The 1:52:00.520 --> 1:52:03.080 thing I would end with is like, give a shit 1:52:03.120 --> 1:52:06.920 about DC, Like, don't be somebody who perpetuates the idea 1:52:06.960 --> 1:52:10.080 that the only thing happening in DC is like national politics, 1:52:10.080 --> 1:52:13.760 and like where national conversations are happening, Because you know, 1:52:13.960 --> 1:52:16.559 there are six hundred thousand people who live here and 1:52:17.080 --> 1:52:21.080 we want to be able to control our city and control. 1:52:20.680 --> 1:52:22.240 Our tax money. 1:52:22.280 --> 1:52:24.320 Like I pay taxes just like anybody else, and it's 1:52:24.560 --> 1:52:27.240 ridiculous that I get less of a say than everybody else. 1:52:27.439 --> 1:52:29.280 So if you don't live in DC and you hear 1:52:29.320 --> 1:52:31.920 about Congress or the Senate voting on stuff that impacts 1:52:31.960 --> 1:52:34.320 DC residents, like you might hear about them voting on 1:52:34.360 --> 1:52:37.720 the DC budget fixed bill, you can call your representatives 1:52:37.720 --> 1:52:40.240 and advocate on our behalf and kind of be our 1:52:40.320 --> 1:52:43.280 voice because we don't really get one. Hopefully this all 1:52:43.280 --> 1:52:44.960 gives you a sense of what's at stake for us, 1:52:45.000 --> 1:52:46.880 So please give a shit about DC. 1:52:47.080 --> 1:52:49.639 Give a shit about DC, and hopefully you guys still 1:52:49.680 --> 1:52:51.040 have garbage services. 1:52:51.800 --> 1:52:56.880 We'll see Molly, thank you for running through all of 1:52:56.880 --> 1:52:57.320 this with me. 1:52:57.360 --> 1:53:00.320 You're such a good co host. Yeah, this was fun. Yeah, 1:53:00.360 --> 1:53:02.280 I listened to Bridges' podcast. There are no girls on 1:53:02.280 --> 1:53:05.280 the Internet listen to Weird Little Guys, a Webby. 1:53:05.120 --> 1:53:06.520 Award winning podcast. 1:53:06.600 --> 1:53:10.439 Yes, so deserved. Are you like keeping your wedding secret? 1:53:10.560 --> 1:53:11.599 Is that something I can talk about? 1:53:11.840 --> 1:53:13.920 Well, I did tell the listeners just because there's gonna 1:53:13.920 --> 1:53:16.920 be some reruns coming out. I'm getting married soon, so 1:53:16.960 --> 1:53:18.559 I will be out of town for a little bit. 1:53:18.920 --> 1:53:20.559 But yeah, so I got a lot going on. I 1:53:20.560 --> 1:53:22.479 got my Weird Little Guys, I got my weird little wedding. 1:53:22.800 --> 1:53:25.599 Well, congratulations. I was telling you off. 1:53:25.479 --> 1:53:28.400 Mike that, like, I love it when women who do 1:53:28.520 --> 1:53:32.080 work in the like extremism right wing space have happy, 1:53:32.200 --> 1:53:35.240 thriving personal lives, so it brings me a lot of joy. 1:53:35.479 --> 1:53:39.720 Deeply congratulations, thank you. Yeah, I am experiencing a lot 1:53:39.720 --> 1:53:42.320 of joy. You deserve it. Thank you. 1:54:04.280 --> 1:54:07.839 Welcome back to It could Happen Here? A podcast normally 1:54:07.960 --> 1:54:11.320 about it happening here, being you know, the real world 1:54:11.320 --> 1:54:14.599 where you live, but for the next two weeks after this, 1:54:14.760 --> 1:54:16.719 and for the week before us, and for this week, 1:54:16.800 --> 1:54:20.479 we're talking about it happening in a galaxy far far away. 1:54:21.000 --> 1:54:23.599 That's right. This is the second in our four part 1:54:23.720 --> 1:54:29.160 series reviewing and discussing and Or Season two, which, due 1:54:29.160 --> 1:54:31.800 to a series of incredibly unlikely events, has become the 1:54:31.800 --> 1:54:34.840 most radical media to reach a wide audience in the 1:54:34.920 --> 1:54:37.480 United States and quite some time. I am here with 1:54:37.600 --> 1:54:40.560 Mio Wong and Garrison Davis. How are we all doing today. 1:54:40.400 --> 1:54:44.080 Hanging in there, hanging in there as we always are. 1:54:46.000 --> 1:54:49.520 Yeah. I just watched episodes seven through nine last night, 1:54:49.560 --> 1:54:51.480 which is really helping with the hanging in there. 1:54:51.680 --> 1:54:53.000 I have not seen that shit yet. 1:54:53.040 --> 1:54:54.600 So yeah, that's for next week, though we have to 1:54:54.600 --> 1:54:55.240 say that for next week. 1:54:55.320 --> 1:54:57.120 Yeah, well, we're not talking about them now, but we 1:54:57.200 --> 1:54:59.360 watched them this week and I'm happy. 1:55:00.080 --> 1:55:03.240 Did watch them, and oh boy, but we still have 1:55:03.280 --> 1:55:05.520 a lot to talk about for episodes four to six. 1:55:06.160 --> 1:55:08.200 It does kind of set up what we see later on, 1:55:08.320 --> 1:55:10.120 but I think there's a lot of interesting stuff there 1:55:10.120 --> 1:55:13.120 with like building an underground resistance, a lot of spies 1:55:13.160 --> 1:55:16.760 an espionage mixed in with like the personal cost of 1:55:17.280 --> 1:55:20.520 rebellion and how it affects like your personal life, your relationships. 1:55:20.680 --> 1:55:23.080 So there is a lot to discuss here. But oh boy, 1:55:23.280 --> 1:55:24.520 I am excited for next week. 1:55:24.640 --> 1:55:27.720 Yes, I am very excited for next week. I'm very 1:55:27.720 --> 1:55:30.880 excited for this week, which we should talk about so 1:55:31.000 --> 1:55:35.080 kind of there's a few themes running through these three episodes. 1:55:35.280 --> 1:55:38.200 One of them is, yeah, the cost in terms of 1:55:38.240 --> 1:55:43.040 your personal life on being part of a rebellion, And yeah, 1:55:43.760 --> 1:55:46.960 I'm interested kind of what are some of the I mean, 1:55:47.080 --> 1:55:49.840 there's one real standout moment in these episodes that I 1:55:49.920 --> 1:55:51.320 know we're all going to want to talk about, which 1:55:51.360 --> 1:55:54.960 is a speech given by Saul Gerrera saw Yeah, played 1:55:55.000 --> 1:55:58.240 by Forrest Whitaker, just just amazingly. 1:55:58.480 --> 1:56:01.000 Yeah, the nitrous speech. Yeah, we'll get to it. 1:56:01.080 --> 1:56:01.680 We'll get to that. 1:56:01.800 --> 1:56:04.200 But yeah, we should start with the first of these episodes. 1:56:05.080 --> 1:56:08.360 Yeah, episode four. Ever been to Gorman? I guess once again, 1:56:08.480 --> 1:56:11.400 if you do not want to be giving Disney Plus 1:56:11.440 --> 1:56:16.200 your money, you can be like Hondo Anaka and acquire 1:56:16.320 --> 1:56:17.160 the show that way. 1:56:17.480 --> 1:56:20.480 Remember the torrent combinations, Remember the variations, gotta keep them 1:56:20.480 --> 1:56:20.960 all in your. 1:56:20.840 --> 1:56:25.480 Head, Yes, yes, all nine or eight variations. Let's do 1:56:25.600 --> 1:56:28.120 a quick recap of this episode, then we'll talk about 1:56:28.160 --> 1:56:30.440 some of these aspects. So one year later from the 1:56:30.480 --> 1:56:33.200 previous episodes, Cassian and Bix are on the planet Coroissant, 1:56:33.280 --> 1:56:36.320 staying at a safe house in between running missions for Luthen. 1:56:36.760 --> 1:56:40.640 Bix is severely struggling with PTSD, while Cassian is stressed 1:56:40.640 --> 1:56:45.000 about having to avoid surveillance while hiding in the capital city. 1:56:44.680 --> 1:56:47.680 And Bix is also we find out abusing space santas. 1:56:48.600 --> 1:56:50.920 Yeah, later on we can we can see that she's 1:56:50.960 --> 1:56:53.640 she's using using space drugs to help her cope with 1:56:53.640 --> 1:56:56.680 the massive amounts of trauma that she's been forced to 1:56:56.880 --> 1:57:00.360 deal with the past few years. Now, our favorite weasel, 1:57:00.480 --> 1:57:03.480 Cyril Karn, has been transferred to the planet Gormant, where 1:57:03.480 --> 1:57:06.560 he's running the local Bureau of Standards in the capital 1:57:06.640 --> 1:57:10.920 city of Palmo. He refutes Imperial propaganda about Gorman while 1:57:10.960 --> 1:57:14.040 on a FaceTime call with his Fox News addicted. 1:57:13.760 --> 1:57:17.400 More talking about like, yeah, the Imperial the Imperial News 1:57:17.400 --> 1:57:20.880 says the Gormans are super arrogant, just real assholes. 1:57:22.280 --> 1:57:26.440 You gotta stop watching Imperial news Man. But this may 1:57:26.560 --> 1:57:29.920 be a ploy from Cyril, because Cyril knows he's being 1:57:30.000 --> 1:57:33.240 monitored and surveilled by members of the Gorman Front, a 1:57:33.240 --> 1:57:37.400 small underground resistance group, while working as a double agent 1:57:37.480 --> 1:57:40.840 for his ISB girlfriend Dedra. Sirtle gets invited to a 1:57:40.840 --> 1:57:42.880 town hall meeting where he's introduced to the leader of 1:57:42.880 --> 1:57:46.080 the Gorman Front, a local businessman and city councilor, and 1:57:46.120 --> 1:57:48.560 then Cyril is recruited into the resistance. 1:57:48.920 --> 1:57:51.400 Yeah. I want to say a little about the Gorman 1:57:51.440 --> 1:57:54.720 Front because they're very clearly French resistance in World War Two. 1:57:54.840 --> 1:57:58.400 Coded they developed a whole like language for them to speak, 1:57:58.440 --> 1:57:59.400 which is basically like. 1:57:59.480 --> 1:58:02.040 French French phonics, but different words but. 1:58:02.040 --> 1:58:04.000 Different words, and so it sounds a little bit like 1:58:04.040 --> 1:58:06.920 French and German, like got mashed together. People who speak 1:58:06.960 --> 1:58:08.960 both have told me, I don't know, I'm not a 1:58:09.440 --> 1:58:12.400 not a language guy, but it sounds distinctive and they're 1:58:12.520 --> 1:58:15.360 very clearly like Again, their whole the whole industry of 1:58:15.400 --> 1:58:17.800 this planet is high quality textiles that come from like 1:58:17.880 --> 1:58:21.880 spider silk, but also clearly the the the guy who's 1:58:21.960 --> 1:58:24.840 leading the resistance. His business is kind of meant to 1:58:24.960 --> 1:58:28.240 evoke sort of like a classic like French vineyard. Like, 1:58:28.360 --> 1:58:30.920 so he's like he's not a poor man, right, Like. 1:58:30.880 --> 1:58:34.400 No, he's like he's like wealthy, he's like well off. Yes, yes, 1:58:34.560 --> 1:58:36.760 I mean that's a big part about like Gorman is 1:58:36.800 --> 1:58:38.600 this is like a you know, middle upper class like 1:58:38.720 --> 1:58:39.560 status planet. 1:58:39.640 --> 1:58:40.040 Yeah. 1:58:40.080 --> 1:58:41.760 This is like a big part of like Luthen's interest 1:58:41.760 --> 1:58:43.640 in the planet is if he can bring a planet 1:58:43.640 --> 1:58:46.040 with that status into the rebellion, that could have a 1:58:46.040 --> 1:58:47.880 whole bunch of advantages. And that's kind of why he's 1:58:47.920 --> 1:58:50.280 at least like looking into them as an option and 1:58:50.320 --> 1:58:53.440 eventually kind of setting them up for like an accelerationist 1:58:53.480 --> 1:58:53.800 to push. 1:58:53.920 --> 1:58:56.240 Yeah, because I actually think it's a slightly different even 1:58:56.280 --> 1:58:57.960 than that. But we'll talk about that and up when 1:58:57.960 --> 1:58:59.360 we get to episode nine. Yeah. 1:58:59.400 --> 1:59:02.120 Sure, there's an Iceby board meeting where they discuss a 1:59:02.160 --> 1:59:05.040 batch of new raids and arrests on rebel activity and 1:59:05.080 --> 1:59:07.480 how to deal with this influx of arrests that's making 1:59:07.480 --> 1:59:11.440 it hard to process and obtain useful information. Luthn's Iceby 1:59:11.480 --> 1:59:15.280 spy informs them of the Empire's increased interest in Gorman 1:59:15.760 --> 1:59:18.320 and that the Ice be is running covert operations on 1:59:18.360 --> 1:59:23.320 the planet. Meanwhile, Senator Manmathma unsuccessfully lobbies against the Emperor's 1:59:23.360 --> 1:59:28.160 resentencing directive, and at Saguerera's hideout, Willem teaches Saws partisans 1:59:28.160 --> 1:59:30.680 how to safety deploy a fuel pipeline of. 1:59:30.680 --> 1:59:33.880 Verter Yeah, and specifically, Saw puts him with one of 1:59:33.880 --> 1:59:35.960 his guys who's kind of coded as being like a 1:59:36.040 --> 1:59:38.800 close to Saul, Like this is somebody that he really trusts, 1:59:39.400 --> 1:59:42.560 and it's kind of implied fairly soon that like Saw 1:59:42.640 --> 1:59:46.240 doesn't want this guy going back to Luthen with information, right. 1:59:46.280 --> 1:59:47.240 He wants to keep Willow. 1:59:47.320 --> 1:59:50.640 Yeah, he's just like kidnapping this guy. It's like, well, 1:59:50.680 --> 1:59:53.200 he wants to kill him at first. That's the statement 1:59:53.280 --> 1:59:56.160 he makes to his guy, is like, once you have 1:59:56.280 --> 1:59:59.280 these variations down, we're going to ice him. 1:59:59.480 --> 2:00:01.520 Saw does a they trusts Luthen very much anymore. 2:00:01.600 --> 2:00:02.800 He never did well luth. 2:00:02.680 --> 2:00:05.520 And slowly losing a lot of the trust that he's 2:00:05.520 --> 2:00:06.880 built up throughout the galaxy. 2:00:07.040 --> 2:00:09.360 Yeah. But like one of the things that's interesting here 2:00:09.400 --> 2:00:11.840 is that like we kind of see Saws paranoia where 2:00:11.880 --> 2:00:13.920 there's a bunch of variations you need to know to 2:00:13.920 --> 2:00:16.320 get fuel out of any number of different things, and 2:00:16.360 --> 2:00:18.840 the guys like I have to memorize too many if 2:00:18.880 --> 2:00:22.120 you just let us know which one we're trying to 2:00:22.160 --> 2:00:24.600 go after, but that would make it clear which fuel 2:00:24.600 --> 2:00:26.920 station they're going after, So Saw doesn't want to say 2:00:26.960 --> 2:00:27.880 shit initially. 2:00:28.400 --> 2:00:31.520 So this episode we're introduced to the planet Gorman. Like 2:00:31.680 --> 2:00:36.200 in person, it's basically like northern Italy mixed with French culture. Yeah, 2:00:36.240 --> 2:00:38.680 the massive set they built is just gorgeous, a huge, 2:00:39.240 --> 2:00:41.720 huge town square for the capital city of Palmo. 2:00:41.880 --> 2:00:45.040 The amount of money they spent on this show. The 2:00:45.080 --> 2:00:46.920 protesters I think is really interesting. 2:00:46.640 --> 2:00:48.680 Because it's like protesters at like the monument of the 2:00:48.720 --> 2:00:49.560 Tarkan massacre. 2:00:49.880 --> 2:00:52.800 Yeah. Yeah, they're kind of fascinating because like the way 2:00:52.840 --> 2:00:55.880 that their banners are designed really really remind me of 2:00:56.440 --> 2:00:59.200 like pictures you see from like nineteen seventeen. It's like 2:00:59.600 --> 2:01:01.960 very very similar to that. And also they have a 2:01:01.960 --> 2:01:04.280 thing that's a very common protest thing where it's like 2:01:04.320 --> 2:01:06.120 there's as you know, there's protests going on, so there's 2:01:06.120 --> 2:01:08.800 like just like ten guys in the square all the time. Yes, 2:01:08.960 --> 2:01:10.160 kind of like chantons. 2:01:10.680 --> 2:01:11.960 Yeah, always making noise. 2:01:12.120 --> 2:01:14.760 They're kind of keeping a vigil because basically what happened. 2:01:15.640 --> 2:01:18.160 And this is another interesting Tony Gurroy is kind of 2:01:18.160 --> 2:01:22.320 famously not a Star Wars fan like prior to working 2:01:22.320 --> 2:01:23.760 on this, and so there was a lot of like 2:01:23.960 --> 2:01:26.720 anxiety from big Star Wars nerds that like, oh, this 2:01:26.760 --> 2:01:29.080 isn't going to feel like Star Wars, but it clearly 2:01:29.120 --> 2:01:31.880 has a lot of folks who understand, not just like 2:01:32.040 --> 2:01:34.720 the stuff that's come out, you know, since Disney started 2:01:34.720 --> 2:01:37.640 in the different books and comics, but like the legend 2:01:37.680 --> 2:01:41.280 stuff because in Legends, like a major spark of the 2:01:41.760 --> 2:01:44.920 whole rebellion was the Gorman massacre, which is in tarkan Lands, 2:01:45.200 --> 2:01:47.520 and Tarkan's the old guy in the Death Star in 2:01:47.600 --> 2:01:49.840 a New Hope, right, Like, he's the guy who's Darth 2:01:49.920 --> 2:01:53.200 Vader's boss in the first movie, and he lands a 2:01:53.280 --> 2:01:55.360 craft on a crowd at Gorman, And that's supposed to 2:01:55.520 --> 2:01:57.520 have been one of the major sparks, And they've retconned 2:01:57.520 --> 2:02:00.560 it a little, but to the point where that's still happened, 2:02:00.560 --> 2:02:03.240 but it's clearly the setup for a larger massacre that 2:02:03.280 --> 2:02:04.960 this season is building towards. 2:02:05.280 --> 2:02:09.960 Yeah, man, Spacebox News very good. We see the Ministry 2:02:10.000 --> 2:02:13.200 of Enlightenment efforts to weaponize public opinion and how much 2:02:13.200 --> 2:02:17.120 it's working on someone on someone like Cyril's mother, who 2:02:17.320 --> 2:02:20.160 who then becomes convinced that like the propaganda that she's 2:02:20.200 --> 2:02:22.280 being fed is the stuff that she like already believed 2:02:22.320 --> 2:02:25.680 absolutely right, is stuff that she she's like red conned 2:02:25.680 --> 2:02:27.920 into her own memory of being like no, like I've 2:02:28.240 --> 2:02:31.360 I've always never trusted the Gore. Yeah. Meanwhile, she's like 2:02:31.400 --> 2:02:33.720 sitting in front of her like TV like twenty four 2:02:33.720 --> 2:02:37.520 to seven, watching this like the garbage get beamed into 2:02:37.520 --> 2:02:37.960 her brain. 2:02:38.200 --> 2:02:40.640 And I'm wondering, did y'all wonder for a second if 2:02:40.680 --> 2:02:44.400 Cyril was legitimately getting pilled by totally the GORMANSI yeah, 2:02:44.400 --> 2:02:47.040 because it's good. Right, there's like that moment like, well, fuck, 2:02:47.120 --> 2:02:48.880 is he is our boy like starting to have a 2:02:48.880 --> 2:02:52.120 break already, and then he realized like no, that's. 2:02:52.040 --> 2:02:54.120 That's what we're getting. Like that's kind of what's being 2:02:54.160 --> 2:02:57.640 set up, is like how like will will this experience 2:02:58.280 --> 2:03:00.560 for Cyril like change him as a person? And like, 2:03:00.600 --> 2:03:02.680 I think, yeah, the audience is meant to not fully 2:03:02.760 --> 2:03:06.760 know and I think I think it's it's definitely like possible. 2:03:07.400 --> 2:03:09.160 But but Cyril might be more of a hard ass 2:03:09.200 --> 2:03:11.760 than what some people give him credit for. Yeah, because 2:03:11.800 --> 2:03:14.280 he is. He's very excited to get invited to this meeting. 2:03:14.720 --> 2:03:17.160 He purchases a spider from one of like the Gorman 2:03:17.240 --> 2:03:20.240 Front like recruiters that has information on how to how 2:03:20.280 --> 2:03:22.480 to go to this like public town hall, where he 2:03:22.520 --> 2:03:25.360 talks about, hey, you know, if maybe maybe we can 2:03:25.400 --> 2:03:29.160 start working together, maybe we can start feeding information. One point, hilariously, 2:03:29.200 --> 2:03:31.480 he gets he gets accused of being an Imperial spy 2:03:31.640 --> 2:03:35.240 in like a joking manner yeah, and denies it, and 2:03:35.240 --> 2:03:37.800 then he gets on the phone with his IP girlfriends 2:03:37.800 --> 2:03:39.400 like I'm in also, this is this. 2:03:39.440 --> 2:03:40.600 Is this is one of the first times we see 2:03:40.640 --> 2:03:43.840 is the Gorman Front people. These people have no idea 2:03:43.880 --> 2:03:46.520 what the fuck they're doing. They are amateurs. They are 2:03:46.680 --> 2:03:51.000 like yeah, like their operational security is unbelievably dog shit. 2:03:51.160 --> 2:03:53.720 They like wiretapped one guy and were like, hey, let 2:03:53.800 --> 2:03:56.640 me introduce you to the leader of our organization. We 2:03:56.760 --> 2:03:59.040 have met you one time. We have listened to one 2:03:59.160 --> 2:04:02.960 phone call. You're in now. I just I think they 2:04:03.040 --> 2:04:06.920 probably listened to more than they've definitely been watching him 2:04:06.960 --> 2:04:10.120 for a while him much. They just were kind of like, hey, 2:04:10.240 --> 2:04:11.840 you're going to like meet their leader now at the 2:04:11.880 --> 2:04:14.640 first meeting you've shown up to he met like the 2:04:14.680 --> 2:04:16.879 public facing aspect, I guess. 2:04:16.920 --> 2:04:20.440 Yeah, you can see the Gorman like they have some 2:04:20.680 --> 2:04:24.200 degree of sophistication and that they're tapping like him, and 2:04:24.320 --> 2:04:26.760 they've been listening probably for quite a while. And they 2:04:26.840 --> 2:04:29.760 sweep their shit every day for bugs, so you understand that, 2:04:29.880 --> 2:04:31.920 like they have an idea of what they need to 2:04:32.000 --> 2:04:33.520 be doing. But when it comes to all of the 2:04:33.680 --> 2:04:37.080 in person stuff, that's where they're incompetent right where they 2:04:37.280 --> 2:04:41.160 they don't have the actual operational experience to know when 2:04:41.280 --> 2:04:44.960 someone feels off right, Like that's the stuff that they're missing, 2:04:45.520 --> 2:04:47.720 Like man to man on the ground is where the 2:04:47.800 --> 2:04:49.760 problems come in. Like you can tell they're thinking this 2:04:49.840 --> 2:04:53.400 stuff through, but they just don't know what they're doing enough. 2:04:53.680 --> 2:04:54.920 This is this is the thing you I mean, this 2:04:54.960 --> 2:04:56.640 is the thing you genuine wine you run into, like 2:04:56.760 --> 2:04:58.440 in the field a lot where there's people who like 2:04:59.280 --> 2:05:01.680 have read a lot of soft bought operational security but 2:05:01.800 --> 2:05:04.200 haven't done anything and so they don't under and there's 2:05:04.200 --> 2:05:05.640 there's varying levels of this, right, but you get this 2:05:05.680 --> 2:05:08.960 to do people where it's like they don't know what 2:05:09.120 --> 2:05:12.080 the important things are. So they do some of the 2:05:12.160 --> 2:05:15.400 stuff right that they've read, but they don't understand how 2:05:15.440 --> 2:05:19.160 to put all of it together to like do something securely. 2:05:19.320 --> 2:05:21.200 And so you'll get these things where like some of 2:05:21.240 --> 2:05:23.840 their stuff is like unbelievably secure to a point where 2:05:23.840 --> 2:05:27.000 it's useless, and then some of it is like very open. Yeah, 2:05:27.440 --> 2:05:30.200 they're just like hey have I don't know. Yeah, they'll 2:05:30.240 --> 2:05:32.920 just bring people into stuff that instantly compromises everything that 2:05:32.960 --> 2:05:34.880 they're doing because they haven't like thought it through. 2:05:35.360 --> 2:05:37.720 Yeah, I mean, and this is something that that Cassian 2:05:37.760 --> 2:05:40.040 talks about in the next episode, which we will get 2:05:40.080 --> 2:05:42.360 yeah shortly. Yeah, I mean, so much of these episodes 2:05:42.440 --> 2:05:46.160 is built around like paranoia and like surveillance. Like Cassie's 2:05:46.160 --> 2:05:48.400 talking about not wanting to go like on a walk 2:05:48.440 --> 2:05:50.760 in the park because the Empire just put up cameras. 2:05:51.160 --> 2:05:53.640 He's nervous about like where they go grocery shopping. Like 2:05:53.720 --> 2:05:56.800 he's trying to like do everything right, but it's like 2:05:56.920 --> 2:05:59.520 hurting his relationship with Bicks, and it's just making their 2:05:59.560 --> 2:06:02.960 life like very very challenging encorre assant as they're like 2:06:03.360 --> 2:06:06.400 stationed there in between missions. Like meanwhile, like Luthan's just 2:06:06.440 --> 2:06:08.879 trying to gain as much information on Gorman as possible. 2:06:09.400 --> 2:06:11.880 He has a line that I like, a smear campaign 2:06:11.960 --> 2:06:14.080 is an opening move, not an endgame. I need the 2:06:14.240 --> 2:06:17.600 end game. Yeah, talking about like the limits of you know, 2:06:17.760 --> 2:06:22.080 the Empire's Fox News style propaganda is only is only 2:06:22.240 --> 2:06:26.560 like a starting position, like this is obviously leading somewhere, 2:06:26.560 --> 2:06:28.200 and I need to know where that is. And he's 2:06:28.280 --> 2:06:30.400 gonna obtain that information slowly over the course of the 2:06:30.440 --> 2:06:33.000 next few episodes. And then I think the other thing 2:06:33.000 --> 2:06:34.400 I want to talk about before we go on break 2:06:34.720 --> 2:06:40.880 is Mon Mathma's lobbying against like the prison sentencing guidelines. 2:06:41.640 --> 2:06:45.680 She says, quote sector boundaries, civil liberties, personal freedom, respect 2:06:45.720 --> 2:06:48.080 for local traditions. You've been voting with me on these 2:06:48.160 --> 2:06:52.160 issues for years. And the Gorman senator replies, this is security. Mon, 2:06:52.240 --> 2:06:56.640 You're confusing criminality and politics here. Mon says, really, are 2:06:56.680 --> 2:06:59.640 we finding criminals or are we making them? Yeah, this 2:06:59.680 --> 2:07:02.640 is where you see senators parenting like fake crime stats 2:07:02.720 --> 2:07:04.880 about how there's been like you know, this increased wage 2:07:04.960 --> 2:07:06.040 surgery front. 2:07:06.240 --> 2:07:07.040 But that's not true. 2:07:07.240 --> 2:07:10.560 Yeah, because just because just because they're arresting more peoples, 2:07:10.600 --> 2:07:12.400 that makes there be more crime. And like you see 2:07:12.440 --> 2:07:15.640 this in season one where Cassidean's arrested at the Beach 2:07:15.680 --> 2:07:17.680 planet for like no reason and then sentenced to the 2:07:17.760 --> 2:07:20.640 Forever prison. Yeah, like, yeah, they are arresting more people. 2:07:20.800 --> 2:07:23.400 So if you just look at those stats by itself 2:07:23.440 --> 2:07:26.600 without any context on like how how other policing is working, 2:07:26.800 --> 2:07:28.280 then yeah, I can look a certain way. And this 2:07:28.360 --> 2:07:30.680 is what Mon's trying to push back on. And and 2:07:30.840 --> 2:07:33.560 the other senators are just too like bought into the 2:07:33.600 --> 2:07:36.800 empire or too scared, like the Gorman senator believes that 2:07:37.040 --> 2:07:40.000 voting against the emperor at this point would further endanger 2:07:40.080 --> 2:07:42.440 his planet. Yeah, even though this type of thing is 2:07:42.480 --> 2:07:44.240 actually going to end up biting him in the ass 2:07:44.280 --> 2:07:45.080 in the next few years. 2:07:45.200 --> 2:07:49.120 Yes, And yeah, he is like very much desperate to like, no, please, 2:07:49.200 --> 2:07:51.320 we can we can calm this down if we just 2:07:51.400 --> 2:07:52.920 don't piss the empire off enough. 2:07:53.240 --> 2:07:53.280 No. 2:07:54.400 --> 2:07:56.200 The the thing I think is actually it's interesting about 2:07:56.200 --> 2:07:58.680 the crime statistic stuff is that this is actually a 2:07:58.760 --> 2:08:01.920 more sophisticated operation than what happened in real life. We're 2:08:01.960 --> 2:08:03.960 in real life. All the actual crime statistics were like 2:08:04.040 --> 2:08:06.040 crime is falling, but everyone just kept saying there was 2:08:06.080 --> 2:08:09.160 more crime. Totally, yeah, totally, this is like arresting more 2:08:09.200 --> 2:08:11.600 people to jack the crime rates. That he's a more 2:08:11.640 --> 2:08:15.000 sophisticated thing than what we actually dealt with, which was 2:08:15.200 --> 2:08:16.240 the media just love. 2:08:16.240 --> 2:08:20.120 Our own version of this are not outer space version 2:08:20.240 --> 2:08:23.480 of like propaganda news. Media can just say something and 2:08:23.560 --> 2:08:25.400 you don't even need this stats to back it up. Yeah, 2:08:25.520 --> 2:08:26.920 let's go and break and we'll come back to talk 2:08:26.960 --> 2:08:43.480 about episode five. I have friends everywhere, ah, and we're back. 2:08:44.880 --> 2:08:45.040 Yeah. 2:08:45.120 --> 2:08:47.480 So yeah, let's start with the summary of this episode. 2:08:48.080 --> 2:08:51.440 All right, Luthen wants a first person assessment of the 2:08:51.520 --> 2:08:54.520 Gorman front, but he's like too high profile to go himself, 2:08:54.600 --> 2:08:58.720 so he sends Cassie and undercover as fashion designer Vary 2:08:58.800 --> 2:09:02.760 in Sky. The ISB stages a performative raid of Cyril 2:09:02.840 --> 2:09:06.320 Karan's office to gain more cred with local rebels as 2:09:06.400 --> 2:09:09.120 Cyril begins to feed them select information. 2:09:08.960 --> 2:09:10.880 And he does such a good job of seeming pissed 2:09:10.920 --> 2:09:11.120 at it. 2:09:11.520 --> 2:09:14.640 Oh yeah, he loves he loves pretending to be pissed 2:09:14.640 --> 2:09:16.680 at the ISB. He has so much fun kicking his 2:09:16.800 --> 2:09:17.760 little trash can. 2:09:17.680 --> 2:09:18.440 Across the room. 2:09:20.120 --> 2:09:24.400 This is outrageous. Yeah, very good stuff. And I do like, like, yeah, 2:09:24.440 --> 2:09:27.680 like the weaponization of like state repression as a tactic 2:09:27.800 --> 2:09:31.520 to actually increase state repression, like long term doing this 2:09:31.680 --> 2:09:34.400 like performative show so that Cyril like builds trust and 2:09:34.480 --> 2:09:38.680 like solidarity with the other rebels. Very good. Luthen visits 2:09:38.840 --> 2:09:40.960 Bicks at the safe house and grows concern for her 2:09:41.000 --> 2:09:44.120 well being as she uses space drugs to cope with trauma. 2:09:44.320 --> 2:09:44.520 Yeah. 2:09:44.640 --> 2:09:47.240 Cyril arrives back on Courissant to report to ice by Command, 2:09:47.960 --> 2:09:51.120 has a one hour meeting with his girlfriend where they 2:09:51.160 --> 2:09:51.880 turn off the lights. 2:09:52.000 --> 2:09:55.720 Yeah, after arguing because she's had him followed. 2:09:58.320 --> 2:09:59.880 Yeah, he's a little bit pissed that she's having a 2:10:00.120 --> 2:10:02.280 followed and then she orders into trount the lights and 2:10:02.320 --> 2:10:04.240 then they do something for an hour in their apartment. 2:10:05.440 --> 2:10:08.640 God only knows. I don't want to know. I don't 2:10:08.640 --> 2:10:11.000 want to know what they're enough to this fascist weirdness. 2:10:12.200 --> 2:10:15.320 But at V Command they plan how to like carefully 2:10:15.440 --> 2:10:18.000 push the Gorman Front into taking action against the Empire. 2:10:18.520 --> 2:10:22.360 Cassian makes contact on Gorman and is unimpressed with their 2:10:22.440 --> 2:10:27.040 operational security, and Warren's against trusting an imperial source as 2:10:27.120 --> 2:10:29.320 the ISB could be feeding false intel. 2:10:29.520 --> 2:10:32.000 Some of the best moments in the episode so far, 2:10:32.240 --> 2:10:35.800 because it's it's they don't know shit about Cassian, so 2:10:35.920 --> 2:10:38.520 they don't know who they're talking to, and when he's like, 2:10:38.640 --> 2:10:41.560 you guys shouldn't do fuck right now because you don't 2:10:41.640 --> 2:10:43.920 know shit about fuck, they're like, well, you're not a 2:10:44.000 --> 2:10:45.760 real revolutionary. 2:10:45.560 --> 2:10:48.600 You don't get it, and like, honestly, I understand what 2:10:49.320 --> 2:10:51.520 what's being expressed there too, and like, well, we'll get 2:10:51.520 --> 2:10:54.480 ahead in a sec Like the Gorman Front is adamant 2:10:54.600 --> 2:10:56.720 that their source is vetted and reliable, even though they 2:10:56.760 --> 2:10:57.720 haven't really been vetted. 2:10:58.080 --> 2:11:01.120 The plan is is that the resistance seeks. 2:11:00.880 --> 2:11:04.080 To expose the construction of an imperial military based on Palmo, 2:11:04.400 --> 2:11:07.280 something that the Empire denies, though it seems most of 2:11:07.320 --> 2:11:10.720 the citizens actually already take this to be true and 2:11:10.960 --> 2:11:14.400 or questions the necessity of this plan and relations sour 2:11:14.520 --> 2:11:18.080 with the group. Back on Corriscant, Clea learns through radio 2:11:18.200 --> 2:11:21.680 chatter that one of Luthan's listening devices may be discovered 2:11:21.840 --> 2:11:26.120 during an artifact reappraisal, Saw Hills, an imperial spy, and 2:11:26.200 --> 2:11:30.720 his crew forcibly recruits Willem, and while on mission installing 2:11:30.800 --> 2:11:34.680 a fuel diverter, Saw convinces Willem to huff the fuel fumes. 2:11:34.840 --> 2:11:37.000 Yeah, we'll talk about that in a second. 2:11:37.360 --> 2:11:39.800 I want to talk a little bit about like Cassian 2:11:39.880 --> 2:11:42.880 on Gorman. Yes, and there's there's a lot of interesting 2:11:42.920 --> 2:11:46.360 stuff there, and like specifically when the Gorman Front leader 2:11:46.440 --> 2:11:49.040 like calls Cassian out for like not being a real revolutionary, 2:11:49.200 --> 2:11:51.760 which I think is kind of true. Like Cassia at 2:11:51.800 --> 2:11:54.520 this point is a thief and a soldier. He thinks 2:11:54.560 --> 2:11:58.280 about things purely from that like operationally like like tactical 2:11:58.320 --> 2:12:01.160 point of view. He doesn't have like a large like politics. 2:12:01.200 --> 2:12:03.720 He's like focused on right, like like Luthan is more 2:12:03.760 --> 2:12:07.240 of like a revolutionary, a very like manipulative one, but 2:12:07.400 --> 2:12:09.680 like he is focused on like this like larger political game. 2:12:10.120 --> 2:12:12.080 And this is something that at this point Cassian's not 2:12:12.240 --> 2:12:14.560 fully like interested in. He's more interested on like on 2:12:14.640 --> 2:12:16.600 the ground like tactical preparedness. 2:12:16.760 --> 2:12:19.680 He is interested in what he can do and get 2:12:19.760 --> 2:12:24.800 away with right exactly as opposed to Luthen is interested 2:12:24.960 --> 2:12:27.320 in what does more damage to the Empire. Now, what's 2:12:27.360 --> 2:12:30.120 interesting to me is that the Gorman Front are actually 2:12:30.360 --> 2:12:33.360 in the middle. They think totally that they are willing 2:12:33.480 --> 2:12:36.680 to do whatever, but they don't understand what that is. 2:12:36.800 --> 2:12:39.680 And part of what you are seeing here is the 2:12:39.760 --> 2:12:43.040 Gorman Front are adamant, we are ready for war. We're 2:12:43.120 --> 2:12:46.440 already in a war. Yeah, and they're not technically wrong 2:12:46.520 --> 2:12:49.200 about that because the Empire is planning to wipe them out. 2:12:49.400 --> 2:12:49.560 Right. 2:12:49.680 --> 2:12:52.600 We know the Empire does not plan for there to 2:12:52.680 --> 2:12:55.000 be a Gorman in the future. So the stakes are 2:12:55.520 --> 2:12:58.440 where they're saying they are. But even though they're saying that, 2:12:59.040 --> 2:13:02.080 most of them don't truly believe or understand it. And 2:13:02.280 --> 2:13:05.040 Cassian understands what war is, and what he is telling 2:13:05.080 --> 2:13:06.720 them is that you are and he's at right about this. 2:13:07.120 --> 2:13:10.080 You are not ready for what you think you're ready 2:13:10.160 --> 2:13:13.440 for totally because what you're going to do is die 2:13:13.880 --> 2:13:14.320 all of you. 2:13:15.120 --> 2:13:17.240 That's what makes all their interactions so interesting, because there 2:13:17.280 --> 2:13:21.040 is that unspoken tension which slowly gets like aired because 2:13:21.080 --> 2:13:23.560 like they're really assessing different things, Like what Cassie's assessing 2:13:23.680 --> 2:13:26.160 is different from what Lusen wants assessed, and that's different 2:13:26.200 --> 2:13:28.400 from what the Gorman Front actually want to do. Like 2:13:28.440 --> 2:13:31.480 they're okay with a degree of casualties like being had 2:13:31.880 --> 2:13:34.480 because they just want to like have control over their 2:13:34.520 --> 2:13:36.800 planet again and put up any resistance even if it 2:13:36.920 --> 2:13:38.400 ends up like leading to hardship. 2:13:38.720 --> 2:13:40.200 But I think the other angle of that too, though, 2:13:40.280 --> 2:13:43.480 is it like they don't know what they're doing right, No, 2:13:43.760 --> 2:13:47.080 Like they like their plan, their plan is not genuinely 2:13:47.200 --> 2:13:50.760 really bad, right. Like the plan is that they want 2:13:50.800 --> 2:13:53.760 to like steal an imperial weapons shipment and then reveal 2:13:53.840 --> 2:13:56.160 that the Empire shipping weapons in. But if you do 2:13:56.280 --> 2:13:58.280 that then you've just like and Andrew points it out, 2:13:58.360 --> 2:14:00.320 like okay, so if you do this, then you reveal 2:14:00.440 --> 2:14:03.840 that you did you hijacked the shipment, So they're just 2:14:03.920 --> 2:14:05.880 going to like raid you all. 2:14:05.920 --> 2:14:08.600 And they're okay with you. Yeah, And they're like okay 2:14:08.680 --> 2:14:10.080 with that visibility at this point. 2:14:10.360 --> 2:14:13.240 And there's this this very standard. It's also this very 2:14:13.360 --> 2:14:15.880 common and this is part of what Casside recognizes, this 2:14:16.000 --> 2:14:19.080 common myopic thing that you get with people who again 2:14:19.840 --> 2:14:23.080 think they want a war that they don't truly understand 2:14:23.360 --> 2:14:26.240 the meaning of, where they're like, we need we need 2:14:26.400 --> 2:14:28.520 weapons and when they think of weapons. They think of 2:14:28.640 --> 2:14:30.680 guns that they can hold, and so that's what they're 2:14:30.720 --> 2:14:32.960 focused on getting, and that's what they think will let 2:14:33.040 --> 2:14:37.400 them fight the Empire. When Casside understands there's no fighting 2:14:37.480 --> 2:14:39.880 the Empire with what you can possibly get from a 2:14:40.000 --> 2:14:43.320 raid like this. All there is is suicide. And then 2:14:43.440 --> 2:14:45.760 there's the other level of what Luthan understands. 2:14:45.400 --> 2:14:48.200 Is so the fuck what sometimes that needs to happen. 2:14:48.320 --> 2:14:51.320 What matters is that these people die in public and 2:14:51.440 --> 2:14:54.800 it pisses people off. Yeah, right, And that's there's this 2:14:55.000 --> 2:14:58.480 there's this escalation of like the Gormans think having guns 2:14:58.680 --> 2:14:59.880 means you can fight back. 2:15:00.200 --> 2:15:02.520 Like guns guns means that they'll be safer, right. 2:15:02.720 --> 2:15:06.560 And they're wrong. Cassie and thinks staying alive for a 2:15:06.640 --> 2:15:09.000 future moment means that you can fight back, and he 2:15:09.240 --> 2:15:13.320 is wrong. Luthan understands that the only ammunition that really 2:15:13.400 --> 2:15:16.120 counts in this war is human life, and that sucks, 2:15:17.360 --> 2:15:21.080 and that sucks. That's why he's lost his mind and soul. 2:15:21.360 --> 2:15:23.160 Yes, and that's why people are starting to really like 2:15:23.360 --> 2:15:25.680 dislike working with him. Yes, because he's even though he 2:15:25.800 --> 2:15:28.920 might not be like completely wrong here, Yeah, I like 2:15:29.120 --> 2:15:31.640 so much of this episode is built around finding bugs. Yeah, 2:15:31.760 --> 2:15:34.440 the ISB looks for bugs in Cyro's office, the iceba's 2:15:34.480 --> 2:15:37.200 planting bugs in Zero's office. Bugs are hidden in the 2:15:37.320 --> 2:15:41.240 artifacts that Luthen's telling to high society. Everyone's listening, everyone's 2:15:41.240 --> 2:15:43.400 always everyone's trying to collect more intel, and. 2:15:43.480 --> 2:15:47.280 There's this this this issue the Empire and Luthen's organization 2:15:47.360 --> 2:15:49.400 of having with like we're getting too much, you know. 2:15:49.480 --> 2:15:52.840 The Empire's like we're releasting too many people like Yah 2:15:53.080 --> 2:15:55.160 number one. It's like cutting into our ability to get 2:15:55.200 --> 2:15:58.320 into these organizations. And it also is just like we're drowning. 2:15:58.440 --> 2:16:01.840 And Luthen says the same thing. I'm always spacing on 2:16:01.920 --> 2:16:05.200 her name, but she's wonderful to his his his college lady, 2:16:05.520 --> 2:16:07.360 Like we're drowning, we have too much shit. 2:16:08.400 --> 2:16:11.600 Yeah. Something I love is when when Cyril's talking with 2:16:11.680 --> 2:16:13.960 the Gorman Front about the ISB rate of his office, 2:16:14.360 --> 2:16:17.360 the Gorman Front remarks, quote, we think the ISB is 2:16:17.400 --> 2:16:20.720 running a shadow government without the Emperor's. 2:16:20.640 --> 2:16:24.240 Yes, yes, and it's a real you hear this when 2:16:24.280 --> 2:16:27.440 you read about histories of like Tsarist Russia, like even 2:16:27.480 --> 2:16:29.160 a lot of people who take part in the nineteen 2:16:29.160 --> 2:16:31.640 seventeen revolution right right up till it started. Their attitude 2:16:31.720 --> 2:16:33.600 was like, oh, if the Czar knew what his advisors 2:16:33.640 --> 2:16:35.480 were doing in his name, he'd exactly it'd be on 2:16:35.560 --> 2:16:37.720 our side. And the same thing happened in the Third Reich. 2:16:38.040 --> 2:16:40.920 If only Hitler knew was a common phrase. We're like, well, Hitler, 2:16:41.280 --> 2:16:43.560 who doesn't know the Gestapo's doing all these awful things? 2:16:43.640 --> 2:16:46.840 Of course, Yeah, And it's it's so sad because like 2:16:46.920 --> 2:16:50.200 this is this is their like local like resistance group 2:16:50.240 --> 2:16:52.560 who still has that level of delusion because they come 2:16:52.600 --> 2:16:54.280 from like high society, right, they come from this like 2:16:54.360 --> 2:16:57.480 diplomatic background where they can like solve solved through through 2:16:57.560 --> 2:17:00.320 like free trade. And they're like like, sure, surely, surely 2:17:00.320 --> 2:17:02.320 the Emperor doesn't actually know what's going on here. It 2:17:02.440 --> 2:17:04.480 must it must be like the CIA, it must be 2:17:04.520 --> 2:17:06.760 the FBI. It's like the I s B is running 2:17:06.920 --> 2:17:09.080 a shadow government. They're the ones that are actually like 2:17:09.200 --> 2:17:12.080 ruining things. Yes, and you're like, no, your enemy is 2:17:12.160 --> 2:17:15.080 the entire empire. Yes, your enemy is the ISB, but 2:17:15.160 --> 2:17:18.480 it's also Cyril karn and it's also Emperor Palpatine. 2:17:18.600 --> 2:17:20.879 Yes, And I love that's part of What I love 2:17:20.920 --> 2:17:24.280 about that that laddered interaction between them and Cassian and 2:17:24.360 --> 2:17:28.680 Cassian and Luthan is they're not really revolutionaries either. They 2:17:29.120 --> 2:17:32.280 they are protesters right totally. They still think that the 2:17:32.400 --> 2:17:36.080 overall Empire, once it realizes how bad things are, will 2:17:36.120 --> 2:17:39.440 be on their side, and Cassian thinks they can wait. Yeah, 2:17:39.480 --> 2:17:41.600 it's it's Luthan who's like, no, no, no, there's one 2:17:41.640 --> 2:17:44.480 way out, right, you know, back going back to season one, 2:17:44.560 --> 2:17:45.480 there's one way out. 2:17:47.040 --> 2:17:49.800 Before we talk about the Sagerera stuff at the end, 2:17:50.120 --> 2:17:52.640 I do want to point out how wonderful it was 2:17:52.720 --> 2:17:56.200 to see Cyril Karn in the ISB control room where 2:17:56.240 --> 2:17:59.160 he remarks that this is the greatest day of his life. 2:17:59.280 --> 2:18:00.920 Oh god, just. 2:18:02.840 --> 2:18:04.840 It's like Libby finally getting to spy. 2:18:05.120 --> 2:18:07.600 And part of Guys even makes that great, that great 2:18:07.680 --> 2:18:10.760 comment where he's directly talking about the Gorman Front and 2:18:10.840 --> 2:18:12.840 he's like, yeah, there's a lot of people who think 2:18:12.920 --> 2:18:15.720 they understand shit better than they do because they're new 2:18:15.760 --> 2:18:19.359 to it. But he's also he's clearly talking to Cyril 2:18:19.640 --> 2:18:22.600 like you don't know what you're doing, but I'll use you. 2:18:22.879 --> 2:18:23.199 Fine. 2:18:23.640 --> 2:18:27.960 It's so good. Cyril gains cred amongst the Gorman front 2:18:28.040 --> 2:18:30.240 when they find out that his background is that he 2:18:30.320 --> 2:18:32.680 lost his job because the ISB found out how badly 2:18:32.760 --> 2:18:36.240 he fucked up Ferriks like they're like, ah, I see, 2:18:36.480 --> 2:18:39.360 Cyril must have good reason to hate the Empire because 2:18:39.400 --> 2:18:39.600 of that. 2:18:40.080 --> 2:18:42.480 You're like, no, he's like the fuckers. 2:18:42.600 --> 2:18:46.480 He's desperately trying to like become some like ISB secret agent. 2:18:46.600 --> 2:18:46.800 Yeah. 2:18:47.200 --> 2:18:50.680 Like he just wants approval from like the Daddy state, 2:18:50.879 --> 2:18:51.760 like and from. 2:18:51.600 --> 2:18:54.959 His girlfriend right and has taken over for his mom 2:18:55.200 --> 2:18:58.320 in being like the primary source the person he's trying 2:18:58.360 --> 2:18:58.920 to impress. 2:18:59.560 --> 2:19:01.760 The last we're talking about in this episode is this 2:19:01.920 --> 2:19:05.120 episode displays like two different types of drug use. Yes, 2:19:05.200 --> 2:19:08.200 we have we have Bix, who's trying to get over 2:19:08.440 --> 2:19:10.560 the immense amount of fucked up stuff that's happened to 2:19:10.600 --> 2:19:13.280 her by taking space XENX if you will. 2:19:13.640 --> 2:19:16.720 She's barred out every night holding a gun, watching TV 2:19:17.000 --> 2:19:19.480 and Y and it's like who amongst us? 2:19:21.760 --> 2:19:24.200 It is disrupting her personal life. It's also disrupting her 2:19:24.280 --> 2:19:25.879 like operational capacity. 2:19:26.240 --> 2:19:28.520 She has been sent out in the recent past and 2:19:28.600 --> 2:19:31.240 she can't be sent back out again. And the specific 2:19:31.320 --> 2:19:34.440 we don't even see the mission that most recently fucked 2:19:34.440 --> 2:19:36.720 her up, but we're through her nightmares were lid to 2:19:36.800 --> 2:19:39.920 In first, she and Cassie and captured an Imperial pilot 2:19:40.240 --> 2:19:43.160 and Cassian killed the guy because he'd seen her face, 2:19:43.680 --> 2:19:46.440 and she's, in addition to having been tortured in season one, 2:19:46.480 --> 2:19:48.360 fucked up because like we didn't need to kill him, 2:19:48.400 --> 2:19:53.560 and Cassiean's like, yeah we did, Like he saw your face. 2:19:53.879 --> 2:19:54.200 That's it. 2:19:55.080 --> 2:19:57.600 The weight of Resistance is really getting to Bix. Yeah, 2:19:57.760 --> 2:19:59.560 and like like Luthen comes over to like check on 2:19:59.640 --> 2:20:01.320 her and so like see if she's able to like 2:20:01.440 --> 2:20:03.640 work and see if she can like appraise some like 2:20:03.680 --> 2:20:06.800 weapons or something, and he realizes like she is not 2:20:07.000 --> 2:20:10.000 like well enough to work at this point, Yeah, and 2:20:10.360 --> 2:20:13.520 becomes like getting worried for her and like like try 2:20:13.560 --> 2:20:15.080 to like plead with her, like you have to. You 2:20:15.160 --> 2:20:17.160 have to make sure that you like stay healthy. I 2:20:17.160 --> 2:20:19.560 don't know, it's it's it's definitely it's it's definitely hard 2:20:19.600 --> 2:20:21.840 to watch. I think this is definitely like this moment. 2:20:22.720 --> 2:20:24.640 It's like I don't look. Bix has always had a 2:20:24.720 --> 2:20:26.600 lot of agency taken away from her, Like we see 2:20:26.640 --> 2:20:28.360 this like in season one and we see this kind 2:20:28.400 --> 2:20:30.920 of now and I definitely would like to would like 2:20:30.959 --> 2:20:32.760 to see her get put back in like the driver's 2:20:32.760 --> 2:20:35.000 seat of her own life at a certain point. But 2:20:35.240 --> 2:20:37.920 like like like living through like PTSD and living through 2:20:38.280 --> 2:20:40.240 like these types of like you know, political movements does 2:20:40.560 --> 2:20:43.120 does like destroy people and like this does happen well, and. 2:20:43.400 --> 2:20:47.400 Just what torture does, right, Like, Yeah, torture breaks people, 2:20:47.560 --> 2:20:48.920 that's its purpose, you know. 2:20:49.560 --> 2:20:52.959 So we have Space n X and then we have Sagerera. Yeah, 2:20:53.080 --> 2:20:53.840 we fucking do. 2:20:54.240 --> 2:20:56.199 So let's I want to talk a little bit about 2:20:56.240 --> 2:20:58.440 his background, some stuff that's not in the show, and 2:20:58.520 --> 2:21:00.440 the show you see him when we when he is 2:21:00.480 --> 2:21:03.400 already basically the hardest son of a bitch in the rebellion, right, 2:21:04.320 --> 2:21:06.400 he is the only leader of a rebel faction that 2:21:06.520 --> 2:21:09.120 Luthen treats as an equal. Right where like Luthan is 2:21:09.200 --> 2:21:11.480 meeting with him, we see Luthan meeting with him directly. 2:21:11.879 --> 2:21:14.640 Luthen is not willing to sacrifice he and his men 2:21:14.959 --> 2:21:18.119 and like in order to maintain the cover of a spy. 2:21:18.040 --> 2:21:20.119 Which he is serious mien. 2:21:20.400 --> 2:21:23.280 Yeah, they are serious there, and every time we see 2:21:23.320 --> 2:21:25.320 them there's more of them and they have more ships 2:21:25.320 --> 2:21:27.320 they're the first ones. They're the first rebels to use 2:21:27.320 --> 2:21:30.959 ex qust ones to X wings, yeah and saws background 2:21:31.040 --> 2:21:32.760 and you have. This is way a bunch of the 2:21:32.840 --> 2:21:36.680 expanded stuff. But he's he started out as essentially a 2:21:36.760 --> 2:21:39.920 local rebel on this planet during the Clone Wars that 2:21:40.200 --> 2:21:44.119 was not aligned between either major faction, but basically the Jedi, 2:21:44.320 --> 2:21:47.920 taking the role of Space Cia, armed him and his 2:21:48.120 --> 2:21:51.560 sister to lead like a rebel group against the other 2:21:51.800 --> 2:21:53.960 power they were fighting in the Clone Wars occupation, like 2:21:54.000 --> 2:21:58.000 separatist forces. He was meant to be Mujahideen coded right initially, right, 2:21:58.120 --> 2:22:00.560 So he's like a space musja Hideen who's armed by 2:22:00.600 --> 2:22:03.400 the Space Cia, who are the Jedi. And then when 2:22:03.640 --> 2:22:07.640 the Republic ends, he immediately starts fighting the Empire. And 2:22:08.120 --> 2:22:10.680 one of the kind of like moments that form saw 2:22:10.800 --> 2:22:13.880 is his sister dies in the process of this failed 2:22:13.879 --> 2:22:17.360 attempt to gain independence for their homeworld, this place called Hoduran. 2:22:17.560 --> 2:22:17.680 Right. 2:22:18.160 --> 2:22:20.360 You don't need to know any of that to perfectly 2:22:20.480 --> 2:22:23.520 get and enjoy his character in these shows, but the 2:22:23.640 --> 2:22:26.160 moment that we're talked about to talk about means more 2:22:26.240 --> 2:22:29.240 if you understand his backstory with his sister, right. 2:22:29.360 --> 2:22:31.560 Yeah, and he's been doing this ever since he was 2:22:31.640 --> 2:22:32.000 like a kid. 2:22:32.360 --> 2:22:34.760 Yes, and yet this has been his whole life, right, 2:22:35.000 --> 2:22:37.119 I think he's supposed to be like forty six when 2:22:37.160 --> 2:22:40.760 he dies in Rogue one had forty six. If you 2:22:40.959 --> 2:22:43.760 look at him, you know, he looks clearly older, but 2:22:43.840 --> 2:22:47.080 also he looks like, well, yeah, he's been fighting his 2:22:47.360 --> 2:22:50.920 entire life. That age is a teacher and he has this. 2:22:51.200 --> 2:22:53.279 So the first thing that he does is he executes 2:22:53.320 --> 2:22:55.440 this guy who was set up as his friend. When 2:22:55.440 --> 2:22:57.760 it becomes clear that that guy was a spy and 2:22:57.879 --> 2:22:59.959 it's insinuated, he thinks it's a spy for the Empire. 2:23:00.360 --> 2:23:02.040 That guy might have been a spy for Lutheran or 2:23:02.080 --> 2:23:04.200 someone else. We don't actually know. We know he was 2:23:04.280 --> 2:23:05.560 sending info to someone. 2:23:05.840 --> 2:23:08.680 He was transmitting, Yeah, saw things that they were going 2:23:08.720 --> 2:23:11.440 to set up like an ambush at their next mission. Yeah, 2:23:11.600 --> 2:23:13.879 And instead they evacuate their base. 2:23:13.840 --> 2:23:17.360 And Saw blasts him and basically says, hey, to the kid, 2:23:17.560 --> 2:23:19.480 your mind now, and we're going to go steal this 2:23:19.560 --> 2:23:22.240 fucking fuel. So the next time we see them, they 2:23:22.560 --> 2:23:26.200 they've busted onto this Imperial fuel lot and they're fueling 2:23:26.280 --> 2:23:29.199 up their ships and while the kid is like working 2:23:29.240 --> 2:23:31.240 out to set this thing up to allow them to 2:23:31.360 --> 2:23:37.160 take the ribo, which is the rionium riydonium rhydo sorry, 2:23:37.200 --> 2:23:39.720 the starship fuel. While the kid is like doing this 2:23:39.920 --> 2:23:42.240 job that we've been told if you don't do it perfectly, 2:23:42.360 --> 2:23:45.800 it kills you and everyone around you. Saw is monologuing 2:23:45.879 --> 2:23:48.080 and he's talking about his childhood where he was like 2:23:48.240 --> 2:23:51.640 I was a child slave, you know, forced to labor 2:23:51.879 --> 2:23:54.760 in these rhido mines, right, and one day there was 2:23:54.840 --> 2:23:57.480 a gas leak and all everyone ran and you know 2:23:57.600 --> 2:23:59.320 this stuff. It was so bad out there. The old 2:23:59.360 --> 2:24:01.960 people would and you'd come back the next day and 2:24:02.080 --> 2:24:03.880 the jungle was so thick they'd been eaten down to 2:24:03.959 --> 2:24:06.000 bones and want everybody has to flee because of this leak. 2:24:06.240 --> 2:24:09.360 But I don't run away because, like I'm huffing this gas, 2:24:09.440 --> 2:24:11.800 I get high and I like realize for the first time, 2:24:11.879 --> 2:24:12.440 I'm alive. 2:24:12.680 --> 2:24:12.880 You know. 2:24:13.320 --> 2:24:16.240 He has this like this moment, and then when the 2:24:16.320 --> 2:24:19.080 kid figures out how to get the fuel hooked up, 2:24:19.600 --> 2:24:22.880 Saw immediately leans in and starts huffing what is effectively 2:24:23.000 --> 2:24:25.760 gasoline and going and the kid's like, what the fuck. 2:24:25.840 --> 2:24:28.080 The kid who's wearing gas mask, who's like wearing gas 2:24:29.200 --> 2:24:31.400 is like, what are you doing? And he's like, she's 2:24:31.480 --> 2:24:34.440 my sister, right, Oh, she's my sister and she loves me. 2:24:35.240 --> 2:24:37.960 I want to read it here. I sure have this 2:24:38.080 --> 2:24:40.800 back of the monologu quote. Yeah you feel how badly 2:24:41.000 --> 2:24:44.039 she wants to explode. Yeah, remember this moment. You think 2:24:44.080 --> 2:24:47.680 I'm crazy? Yes, I am. Revolution is not for the samee. 2:24:48.280 --> 2:24:51.320 Look at us, unloved, hunted, cannon fodder. Will all be 2:24:51.440 --> 2:24:54.480 dead before the Republic is back. And yet here we are. 2:24:54.920 --> 2:24:55.280 Where are you? 2:24:55.440 --> 2:24:55.600 Boy? 2:24:55.680 --> 2:24:56.080 You're here. 2:24:56.280 --> 2:24:58.680 You're not with Luthin, you're here. You're right here, and 2:24:58.720 --> 2:25:02.080 you're ready to fight. We're the rido kid, We're the fuel. 2:25:02.160 --> 2:25:04.400 We're the thing that explodes when there's too much friction 2:25:04.520 --> 2:25:07.400 in the air. Let it in, boy, that's freedom calling 2:25:07.560 --> 2:25:10.119 Let it in, Let it run, let it run wild. 2:25:10.320 --> 2:25:14.080 And he is just for one thing. The kid is 2:25:14.200 --> 2:25:17.520 choking on the on the fumes, is nearly dying from 2:25:17.560 --> 2:25:21.480 the gas fumes that clearly saw as barely affected by anymore. Right, 2:25:22.280 --> 2:25:24.240 it's again this thing I love that they do in 2:25:24.400 --> 2:25:27.320 terms of they're calling back to the older lore when 2:25:27.360 --> 2:25:29.560 he calls this his sister. Yeah, but you don't need 2:25:29.640 --> 2:25:32.440 to know that his sister died to get this moment. 2:25:32.600 --> 2:25:34.959 It just makes it adds an extra layer of meaning 2:25:35.000 --> 2:25:37.080 if you're a nerd for the lore, which I appreciate 2:25:37.160 --> 2:25:40.080 a lot. And it also sets up in Rogue one 2:25:40.120 --> 2:25:42.640 when we see Saw near death, he's huff he's on 2:25:43.080 --> 2:25:45.400 he's on oxygen. He's well, I think he's on O 2:25:45.560 --> 2:25:48.160 two because he's destroyed his lung stuffing. 2:25:48.440 --> 2:25:51.800 He's houghing this now, this is this is what he's huffing. 2:25:51.879 --> 2:25:54.000 That has been like like like retcond. 2:25:54.280 --> 2:25:55.440 Confirmed it wasn't oxygen. 2:25:55.520 --> 2:26:00.840 Okay, yes, bo the writer Ye called Tony Gilroy and said, hey, 2:26:00.920 --> 2:26:02.520 what if we have him huff and fumes? 2:26:02.920 --> 2:26:03.840 And they went for it. 2:26:04.400 --> 2:26:05.960 Well yeah, but I but I think that was to 2:26:06.040 --> 2:26:08.880 try to explain because because Tony said he didn't know 2:26:09.080 --> 2:26:11.520 why Saul was on oxygen when YE put it in 2:26:11.680 --> 2:26:14.080 Rogue one, and so they came to explain it. But 2:26:14.120 --> 2:26:15.720 I think he's on oxygen because I. 2:26:15.760 --> 2:26:18.720 Think it's been retconto to being that he's just huffing. 2:26:18.800 --> 2:26:20.320 Risy, I don't know. 2:26:20.600 --> 2:26:23.080 I saw it in an article. You yeah, so either way, 2:26:23.160 --> 2:26:25.440 we'll see, we'll see. I could be wrong. I was 2:26:25.520 --> 2:26:28.400 wrong last beekause of one thing, I miscredited the quote 2:26:28.640 --> 2:26:32.120 about about the Empire's grip tightening and systems falling through 2:26:32.760 --> 2:26:36.600 because the Theory Twinks British actor has a has an 2:26:36.640 --> 2:26:39.160 accent very similar to the one Carry Fisher poorly tries 2:26:39.200 --> 2:26:42.280 to imitate in a New Hope where she says that line, 2:26:42.400 --> 2:26:44.960 so sorry, George, Sorry George, that was your line. 2:26:45.200 --> 2:26:45.680 Good line. 2:26:45.840 --> 2:26:47.960 The Theory Twink just has some very similar ones. So 2:26:48.240 --> 2:26:49.000 I got confused. 2:26:49.600 --> 2:26:53.520 Accountability Wow, mean to Carry Fisher Garrison. 2:26:53.720 --> 2:26:55.920 Everyone knows her accents bad in that movie. We all 2:26:56.000 --> 2:26:56.200 know it. 2:26:58.440 --> 2:27:01.119 I fucking love this speech by Oh. 2:27:01.120 --> 2:27:03.160 Yeah, this is the most Robert thing I've ever seen it. 2:27:03.480 --> 2:27:06.400 Yeah, it's perfect, It's perfect. Everything about it makes me 2:27:06.520 --> 2:27:09.360 so happy. Bo Willman continues to be like maybe the 2:27:09.440 --> 2:27:13.360 best monologuest writing for TV right now. It's just such 2:27:13.400 --> 2:27:17.680 a raw scene and it explains both like why Saw 2:27:17.879 --> 2:27:21.240 is still around, because he's the most paranoid, crazy son 2:27:21.320 --> 2:27:24.320 of a bitch there is, and because he unlike everyone 2:27:24.400 --> 2:27:27.680 else and unlike the Gorman's, unlike even Cassie, and he's 2:27:27.760 --> 2:27:30.480 the only guy who understands what Luthan understands, which is 2:27:30.560 --> 2:27:33.200 that likely. We're not here to see the other side 2:27:33.240 --> 2:27:36.000 of this. Now, we're here to catch on fire, you know, 2:27:36.520 --> 2:27:37.480 like that's the. 2:27:37.600 --> 2:27:40.840 Whole thing, and hopefully that fire will grow. Yeah, and yeah, 2:27:41.200 --> 2:27:43.040 if that means we get burned up in the process, 2:27:43.200 --> 2:27:45.600 that is, that's how it be. Yeah, if the fire 2:27:45.640 --> 2:27:48.240 will burn very brightly, yes, all right, let's go and 2:27:48.320 --> 2:27:50.440 break and then come back to discus the final episode 2:27:50.480 --> 2:27:51.000 in this arc. 2:28:01.040 --> 2:28:01.880 Okay, we are back. 2:28:02.040 --> 2:28:05.080 And Or Season two, episode six, What a festive evening. 2:28:05.800 --> 2:28:09.640 Luthen sends mon Mathma's cousin Val to re establish relations 2:28:09.720 --> 2:28:14.080 with the Gorman front after Cassian's icy reception. Cassian and 2:28:14.160 --> 2:28:17.480 Bicks reunite on Corroussant, but then Cassian shows up at 2:28:17.600 --> 2:28:20.920 Luthen's shock confront him about checking in on Bicks at 2:28:20.959 --> 2:28:23.120 the safe house while and Or was on mission. In 2:28:23.240 --> 2:28:27.759 a possibly like OPSEC irresponsible, huge OPSEC. 2:28:27.400 --> 2:28:30.320 Fuck up, huge oxexo CACI and Andor's face is known. 2:28:31.040 --> 2:28:34.360 Yeah, not good. This is like the Cassian's emotions getting 2:28:34.360 --> 2:28:36.640 the better of him here. Senator mon Mathma and her 2:28:36.720 --> 2:28:40.240 husband parent attend a party of the Empire's elite, where 2:28:40.320 --> 2:28:43.640 she debates Krenik on Imperial cruelty and the mindset of 2:28:43.720 --> 2:28:47.640 a rebel underdog. Meanwhile, Claya uses their undercover ice B 2:28:47.760 --> 2:28:50.320 agent to help remove a listening device hidden in the 2:28:50.440 --> 2:28:54.680 Price collection of artifacts. Vell reunites with Sinta as they 2:28:54.800 --> 2:28:58.000 helped to lead the Gorman Front's first attack, stealing imperial 2:28:58.040 --> 2:29:01.280 weapons on a cargo transport. At first, things go according 2:29:01.280 --> 2:29:03.720 to plan. Cyril watches from a distance and reports to 2:29:03.760 --> 2:29:04.400 icebyhead quarter. 2:29:04.680 --> 2:29:07.360 We should note ahead of this that during the meeting 2:29:07.440 --> 2:29:09.760 where they had about this, one point that they had 2:29:09.840 --> 2:29:12.520 made is none of you have guns. None of you 2:29:12.720 --> 2:29:15.480 carry guns on this Me and her are the only 2:29:15.600 --> 2:29:18.320 people with blasters. You don't need them, you're not competent 2:29:18.400 --> 2:29:18.959 to use them. 2:29:19.680 --> 2:29:19.880 Yeah. 2:29:20.760 --> 2:29:24.200 So, near the end of this operation, a civilian confronts 2:29:24.240 --> 2:29:26.760 the rebels but what they're doing and in the struggle, 2:29:26.920 --> 2:29:29.320 Sinta is accidentally shot and killed by one of the 2:29:29.400 --> 2:29:31.840 members of the Gorman Front, a guy named Sam with 2:29:31.959 --> 2:29:36.200 two ms. I love Star Wars. This episode ends with 2:29:36.360 --> 2:29:38.640 Bix and Cassian going on a mission to kill the 2:29:38.720 --> 2:29:42.920 Imperial interrogation expert doctor Gorst, which they succeed and then 2:29:43.000 --> 2:29:46.240 walk away heroically from the explosion, similar to. 2:29:46.400 --> 2:29:48.840 Kill him by torturing him the way he tortured her. 2:29:49.080 --> 2:29:52.440 Yeah, and then they love the building and they play 2:29:52.480 --> 2:29:55.280 the music cue from the very first arc, Yeah, the 2:29:55.400 --> 2:29:59.000 very first season where Cassian is walking away with that 2:29:59.120 --> 2:30:02.560 fast drum beat. So this episode has so much about 2:30:02.680 --> 2:30:05.640 like like relationships complicating political activity. 2:30:05.800 --> 2:30:05.920 Right. 2:30:06.000 --> 2:30:08.720 We have we have and orn bicks. We have the lesbians. 2:30:09.120 --> 2:30:12.879 Valin Senta be killed by lesbian. They did kill your lesbian? 2:30:13.120 --> 2:30:16.920 H we'll talk about that, yeah, we'll second. They also 2:30:17.040 --> 2:30:19.560 have they also have Cyril and Dedra. We have like 2:30:19.720 --> 2:30:22.080 like a lot of a lot of like how relationships 2:30:22.120 --> 2:30:25.959 and politics like function, how where there's friction, when things 2:30:26.000 --> 2:30:28.600 can go well, with things can go bad. Let's talk 2:30:28.640 --> 2:30:32.960 I guess a little bit of about this party where 2:30:33.240 --> 2:30:38.640 where where uh Luthen talks with Cretic very very briefly 2:30:39.360 --> 2:30:42.040 and at the end, I mean this is this is 2:30:42.040 --> 2:30:44.520 a very effective scene where they like build tension with 2:30:44.640 --> 2:30:47.440 Clay trying to remove this bug while critics like in 2:30:47.560 --> 2:30:50.200 the room seeing seeing these other artifacts and it's like 2:30:50.280 --> 2:30:53.800 debating Mond. But when when Luthen and Claya leave, they 2:30:53.959 --> 2:30:56.760 jokingly remark, oh, good man, we should have killed critic 2:30:56.840 --> 2:30:59.360 when we were up there and they laugh and you're like, yeah, 2:30:59.560 --> 2:31:00.720 you know, you guys should. 2:31:00.480 --> 2:31:00.840 Have that's. 2:31:02.480 --> 2:31:04.119 You really should have killed critic. 2:31:04.920 --> 2:31:07.600 You really should have killed critic. It would have bummed 2:31:07.640 --> 2:31:09.120 things up. But then the Death Star may not have 2:31:09.200 --> 2:31:11.840 been completed. Yeah, and this whole thing would have gone differently, 2:31:12.240 --> 2:31:14.800 although you know, you know, in a way, the deskto 2:31:14.840 --> 2:31:18.000 operation does lead to the fall of the Empire in 2:31:18.120 --> 2:31:19.680 like the paradox that a way. 2:31:19.600 --> 2:31:24.080 To be fair, they should they don't know exists some business. 2:31:25.240 --> 2:31:27.880 But he's like he's like a super high up guy. Yes, 2:31:28.160 --> 2:31:29.440 and man, yeah, that is tough. 2:31:29.560 --> 2:31:30.560 That's that's a tough scene. 2:31:30.680 --> 2:31:33.480 It's a's also what's interesting is that it's a tough 2:31:33.560 --> 2:31:36.360 scene in light of the rest of the lore. It's 2:31:36.400 --> 2:31:39.000 a really nice because they've been fighting, bickering for this 2:31:39.160 --> 2:31:41.800 whole cycle of episodes and like you're, yeah, things are 2:31:41.840 --> 2:31:43.440 breaking down, and this is a moment where like they 2:31:43.520 --> 2:31:46.720 get back on the same page and you're like, eases. 2:31:46.560 --> 2:31:48.080 Yeah, well because part of it, because like part of 2:31:48.120 --> 2:31:50.200 what's going on here is like losing is losing it, right, 2:31:50.240 --> 2:31:51.680 and this is the thing because like he's he's struggling 2:31:52.760 --> 2:31:56.000 and like, yeah, everyone's fucking seen this, Like yeah, your 2:31:56.000 --> 2:31:58.160 friend is struggling fifteen products at once. They're losing their 2:31:58.200 --> 2:32:01.720 goddamn minds and then like the girl in your group 2:32:01.800 --> 2:32:03.520 was on top of it, has to just slap them 2:32:03.520 --> 2:32:04.680 and be like locked the fuck in. 2:32:05.160 --> 2:32:07.160 Yeah, No, Klay is a scary monster. 2:32:07.440 --> 2:32:08.560 She is on it. Yeah. 2:32:08.800 --> 2:32:12.240 Well, it's made really clear in these cycles. She is 2:32:12.360 --> 2:32:13.400 not his subordinate. 2:32:13.560 --> 2:32:14.400 Oh no, they are. 2:32:14.560 --> 2:32:18.320 They are handling very different parts of the operation, but 2:32:18.440 --> 2:32:20.240 she is not working under him. 2:32:20.800 --> 2:32:22.280 No, and she is like the one who like is 2:32:22.560 --> 2:32:24.400 the reason any of the shit works. Absolutely, And it's 2:32:24.440 --> 2:32:26.160 like that's the thing you see very often. 2:32:26.280 --> 2:32:28.880 There's a line in the season one where things are 2:32:28.920 --> 2:32:31.080 looking bad for them and he specifically asks her is 2:32:31.120 --> 2:32:33.720 your go bag ready? And he doesn't check his own, 2:32:33.959 --> 2:32:36.760 so he I think he understands if one of us 2:32:36.840 --> 2:32:38.240 has to get out, it should be you. 2:32:38.560 --> 2:32:42.000 She has to survive. Yeah, totally. Yeah, And I think 2:32:42.040 --> 2:32:43.640 that is that is where things are going to are 2:32:43.680 --> 2:32:44.280 going to be moving. 2:32:44.520 --> 2:32:44.720 Yeah. 2:32:44.760 --> 2:32:44.960 Yeah. 2:32:44.959 --> 2:32:48.120 I mean when when Cassiean's coming back from Gorman, like 2:32:48.240 --> 2:32:50.840 Luthen picks him up and they start like arguing over 2:32:51.040 --> 2:32:53.160 like is the Gorman front like a real thing to 2:32:53.280 --> 2:32:55.840 like spend effort and like time on, like they're kind 2:32:55.879 --> 2:32:57.760 of all like like green, they don't really have good 2:32:57.800 --> 2:32:59.840 op sex. They're not they're just not like ready yet. Yeah, 2:33:00.000 --> 2:33:02.760 and and and Luthen pushes back and says to Cassie 2:33:02.800 --> 2:33:05.400 and like you're thinking small, you're thinking like a thief. 2:33:05.520 --> 2:33:08.879 And Cassian robuts like, no, I'm thinking like a soldier. 2:33:09.360 --> 2:33:13.360 And you have to think like a leader. You have 2:33:13.480 --> 2:33:15.320 to actually and like from Luten's point of view, a 2:33:15.400 --> 2:33:17.920 leader is like a very like manipulative rule and like 2:33:18.080 --> 2:33:20.000 like you you have to start using these guys as 2:33:20.080 --> 2:33:23.080 pawns for this like larger game, because the empire is 2:33:23.080 --> 2:33:25.080 bigger than just Gorman. The Empire is bigger than us. 2:33:25.720 --> 2:33:28.520 We have to think bigger. You can't just you can't 2:33:28.640 --> 2:33:31.160 just think like a you know, a small illegalist who 2:33:31.240 --> 2:33:34.320 is gonna steal your food and not pay for parking 2:33:34.840 --> 2:33:37.720 and and just like get by while still doing crying. 2:33:37.760 --> 2:33:40.240 But like you know, try that like outsmart the empires 2:33:40.280 --> 2:33:42.200 like no, like we we are we are we are 2:33:42.240 --> 2:33:42.640 beyond that. 2:33:42.959 --> 2:33:44.680 We ain't robbing banks anymore. 2:33:45.200 --> 2:33:49.200 Yeah, exactly right, like we are beyond the illegalist like 2:33:49.280 --> 2:33:51.800 point of view, we have to start thinking like much 2:33:51.920 --> 2:33:55.000 more much more like strategically and with like the bigger 2:33:55.080 --> 2:33:57.039 picture in mind, because like we are we are slowly 2:33:57.040 --> 2:33:59.200 getting closer to the Battle of Yavn. Here, Yeah, and 2:34:00.200 --> 2:34:03.640 their little argument they're really really interesting. And then their 2:34:03.680 --> 2:34:07.640 secondary meet up where where Cassian's mad about Luthen checking 2:34:07.680 --> 2:34:10.480 in on bicks and I think, like I can understand 2:34:10.480 --> 2:34:12.080 both their point of view here is this. I think 2:34:12.120 --> 2:34:14.440 this is still a big fuck up from Cassian, but 2:34:14.560 --> 2:34:17.160 it's like it makes sense, but like, yeah, the relationship 2:34:17.200 --> 2:34:18.720 is getting like the better of him on like a 2:34:18.800 --> 2:34:22.360 strategic standpoint, like at this at this plot point, and 2:34:22.680 --> 2:34:24.920 Luthen still trusts them though, like Luthen still gives them 2:34:24.920 --> 2:34:27.800 the assignment to kill doctor Gores, So like Luthen still 2:34:28.240 --> 2:34:29.920 is able to work with these people, and he's still 2:34:29.959 --> 2:34:32.840 actually like oddly enough like prioritizes empathy and like he 2:34:32.879 --> 2:34:35.320 says like like like empathy, like you can you cannot 2:34:35.400 --> 2:34:38.400 have a you cannot have a revolution without empathy. That's 2:34:38.440 --> 2:34:40.680 what this is built on. And and and even though 2:34:40.720 --> 2:34:43.320 he's a bit of a hard ass sometimes he still 2:34:43.360 --> 2:34:46.080 does like trust them, yeah, yeah, but he's he also 2:34:46.200 --> 2:34:49.280 is deliberately fucking with him, Like yeah, totally he's very 2:34:49.360 --> 2:34:51.680 minific like he like he's like he's being unbelievagnit of 2:34:51.800 --> 2:34:52.960 like like like one of the things there is like 2:34:53.000 --> 2:34:56.680 he deliberately gives Bis, tells Bis about this assignment that 2:34:56.720 --> 2:34:58.760 he was going to give her and then doesn't specifically 2:34:58.879 --> 2:35:00.520 to see if she would tell about it. 2:35:00.560 --> 2:35:02.800 And that's how Andrew would react to that, which is like, 2:35:03.360 --> 2:35:07.200 don't do that. That's unhinged, Like that's like not and 2:35:07.280 --> 2:35:08.760 this is like also part of like, you know the 2:35:08.840 --> 2:35:11.000 thing you have to like balance here, right is like 2:35:11.600 --> 2:35:14.000 you know, you have to be able to balance like 2:35:14.680 --> 2:35:16.840 getting people to do things that need to be done 2:35:17.120 --> 2:35:21.240 with like not being a fucking asshole and alienating everyone. 2:35:21.360 --> 2:35:24.600 And this is like a and especially when you yourself, 2:35:24.760 --> 2:35:27.240 because like Luthor is also falling apart, and he's not 2:35:27.360 --> 2:35:28.040 going to change. 2:35:28.240 --> 2:35:29.640 He's not he's never gonna change. 2:35:29.840 --> 2:35:30.520 No, he's not changing. 2:35:30.560 --> 2:35:32.400 But he's like he's like the thing though that's not 2:35:32.600 --> 2:35:36.480 his job, right, His job was to make the later 2:35:36.640 --> 2:35:40.640 stages of this where people act differently inevitable totally, and 2:35:40.760 --> 2:35:44.920 he understands that you need something that horrifies people to 2:35:45.080 --> 2:35:47.600 do that, right, Like, and that's that's all he's trying 2:35:47.640 --> 2:35:48.160 to set. 2:35:48.040 --> 2:35:51.400 Up Luthid is absolutely like a moral very manipulative. 2:35:51.760 --> 2:35:51.959 I am. 2:35:52.080 --> 2:35:55.880 I am still I'm still teaming even though he like 2:35:56.000 --> 2:35:57.920 sucks as a dude, Like I would hate to work 2:35:57.959 --> 2:35:58.240 with him. 2:35:58.480 --> 2:36:00.520 Well it's like, but like I a god have the 2:36:00.640 --> 2:36:03.560 team Luthen and the yet Yeah, well I would just 2:36:03.600 --> 2:36:05.800 say like like if the thing is like, if you 2:36:05.920 --> 2:36:09.360 try to act like this in like an actual organizing space, 2:36:10.080 --> 2:36:15.199 this isn't gonna work. You're just gonna putter. He's not organizing, 2:36:15.440 --> 2:36:17.520 He's not doing that, right, That's that's what I'm saying, though, 2:36:17.520 --> 2:36:20.840 you're right, right, like like this this works because of 2:36:20.920 --> 2:36:23.160 the exact specific thing that he's doing, which is he 2:36:23.280 --> 2:36:25.080 is the guy who is coordinating a bunch of networks. 2:36:25.240 --> 2:36:27.120 The thing is, in order for networks to hold together 2:36:27.200 --> 2:36:29.560 and work, people have to have relationships with each other, 2:36:29.879 --> 2:36:32.280 and if you behave like this in that situation, it 2:36:32.320 --> 2:36:35.119 will funck out everything. And this is like the conflict 2:36:35.160 --> 2:36:38.279 that's happening, like even inside of his own limited network 2:36:38.480 --> 2:36:41.680 is that like he's he is like fucking with everyone 2:36:41.879 --> 2:36:43.520 And we'll get to that with the lesbian you. 2:36:43.560 --> 2:36:46.040 See you see how you see the different levels at 2:36:46.080 --> 2:36:49.040 which networks work here, like the Gorman Front works because 2:36:49.040 --> 2:36:52.240 they're all friends and neighbors who care about each other, right, 2:36:52.879 --> 2:36:56.480 And that's why they are like real tactles albody, and 2:36:56.520 --> 2:36:58.840 they're able to stick together even though they're not they 2:36:58.920 --> 2:37:03.680 don't have perfect competence. We see Saws group where someone 2:37:03.720 --> 2:37:05.800 made the comment that like, well, he's basically a fascist 2:37:06.040 --> 2:37:08.520 and because of like the hold he has on his group, 2:37:08.840 --> 2:37:10.560 which is not what I saw at all. I saw 2:37:10.600 --> 2:37:13.600 as soon as he shoots the spy, he has but 2:37:13.680 --> 2:37:15.360 he's not a fashion. He has to prove to the 2:37:15.440 --> 2:37:17.760 rest of his group that guy was a spy and 2:37:17.879 --> 2:37:19.920 needed to die. And once he does, they're like, all right, 2:37:20.040 --> 2:37:23.080 well back to the job, right, I mean yeah, But 2:37:23.400 --> 2:37:25.160 and he gets he has to get fucked you know, 2:37:25.200 --> 2:37:28.600 he gets fucked up as part of like the just 2:37:28.680 --> 2:37:31.640 the necessity of it's it's literally the only thing he 2:37:31.760 --> 2:37:35.640 has in between acts of terrifying violence. But that's how 2:37:35.720 --> 2:37:38.360 that group bands together. And then we see, you know, 2:37:38.480 --> 2:37:42.800 these smaller cells of experts, right who they have their 2:37:42.840 --> 2:37:45.560 connections with each other and they have their little moments 2:37:45.600 --> 2:37:48.440 of vengeance, and that's what keeps them going and the 2:37:48.600 --> 2:37:51.760 only thing that keeps Luthen going is the pure logic 2:37:52.080 --> 2:37:54.520 of the calculus of what he's put together. That's all 2:37:54.600 --> 2:37:55.080 he's got. 2:37:55.600 --> 2:37:59.600 Yeah, information collecting boyfriend, always collecting information. Yeah, all right, 2:37:59.640 --> 2:38:03.520 let's talk about the space lesbians who are running the 2:38:04.320 --> 2:38:08.680 French Resistance. So I liked I liked a lot of 2:38:08.720 --> 2:38:10.720 what they did with them in this episode. I liked 2:38:11.240 --> 2:38:13.840 how they were like reuniting. I liked the way they 2:38:13.879 --> 2:38:16.920 talked about the on again, off again style of their 2:38:16.959 --> 2:38:20.480 relationship based on like having to live in this rebellion 2:38:20.760 --> 2:38:23.120 like life, Like they can't always see each other, they're 2:38:23.120 --> 2:38:25.840 always being moved around by Luthern. But they both specifically 2:38:25.840 --> 2:38:28.440 took this assignment like hoping and like and I think 2:38:28.480 --> 2:38:29.879 like knowing that it would mean that they could see 2:38:29.920 --> 2:38:33.680 each other. So I liked the development that we had 2:38:33.800 --> 2:38:35.840 with them as people who like you, are like in 2:38:35.920 --> 2:38:38.320 the same spaces, but do not have the luxury of 2:38:38.360 --> 2:38:41.320 actually having like a life together at this point in time. 2:38:41.959 --> 2:38:45.080 They advised the little resistance group, they're they're much more 2:38:45.160 --> 2:38:49.720 friendly than than than Cassie and is oh, well they 2:38:50.080 --> 2:38:51.080 do come in or like. 2:38:51.080 --> 2:38:53.680 All right, you motherfuckers like you people are amateur? Yes, 2:38:54.680 --> 2:38:56.600 oh yeah, yeah, no, fucking guns. 2:38:56.840 --> 2:39:00.200 Yeah, it's like no, Like, I guess they have more 2:39:00.200 --> 2:39:03.280 of a willingness to put up with the amateurs than 2:39:03.320 --> 2:39:05.960 Cassie does. And I think, I think is kind of 2:39:06.200 --> 2:39:08.840 what's going on there. And you know, they're they're hoping 2:39:08.879 --> 2:39:10.480 that after this mission's over, maybe they'll be able to 2:39:10.520 --> 2:39:14.920 spend more time together. And then Cinta does get killed. 2:39:14.959 --> 2:39:17.240 And I've seen a lot of criticism of this. I've 2:39:17.320 --> 2:39:20.359 seen people invoking like a like a like a barrier 2:39:20.480 --> 2:39:23.720 gaze type crope, and I don't think that's my personal 2:39:23.800 --> 2:39:26.200 outlook on what's going on here. I think a lot 2:39:26.280 --> 2:39:28.920 of people die throughout this show. We had Brasso die 2:39:29.640 --> 2:39:31.520 and this sort of thing like just happened. 2:39:31.520 --> 2:39:34.440 It happens. That's that's the point is Yes, she's really good, 2:39:34.640 --> 2:39:36.959 she's really good, she's incredibly. 2:39:36.760 --> 2:39:40.280 And it feels so like purposeless and like welcome to war. 2:39:40.400 --> 2:39:42.120 I think that is part of the problem, part of 2:39:42.160 --> 2:39:45.200 the point. And like the upset like a reaction that 2:39:45.280 --> 2:39:47.680 you have I think is like that's that's showing I 2:39:47.720 --> 2:39:50.760 think the strength of the strength of this, Like it 2:39:51.200 --> 2:39:53.840 sucks to see a lesbian get killed, but I think 2:39:53.879 --> 2:39:56.520 we're seeing so many relationships like fall apart. We're seeing 2:39:56.520 --> 2:39:57.400 a lot of people get killed. 2:39:57.520 --> 2:40:00.760 Brasso didn't die for any better reason. This is just 2:40:00.840 --> 2:40:01.800 how war works. 2:40:01.840 --> 2:40:04.520 No, I mean I think I think the reason and 2:40:04.640 --> 2:40:05.880 this isn't It has been an interesting part of this. 2:40:05.959 --> 2:40:07.640 I talked a bit about this last episode was like 2:40:07.760 --> 2:40:10.200 this is the most like this is by far the 2:40:10.280 --> 2:40:12.400 most like gay Star Wars River had right, and it's 2:40:12.400 --> 2:40:14.160 the most Like I'm trying to think of the number 2:40:14.200 --> 2:40:16.199 of other shows the only time they didn't lean away 2:40:16.240 --> 2:40:19.800 from it or insinuate it. Yeah, no, like, well they 2:40:19.840 --> 2:40:22.800 just kissing this episode. It's like I'm legitimately like I'm 2:40:22.840 --> 2:40:24.280 like racking my brain. I'm trying to think, like the 2:40:24.400 --> 2:40:26.680 number of like major TV shows I have ever seen 2:40:26.720 --> 2:40:29.039 in my life run non white lesbian gets to kiss someone. 2:40:30.280 --> 2:40:31.800 It's like not that high. And I think that's why 2:40:31.879 --> 2:40:33.840 people because like, yeah, like this is this is this 2:40:33.959 --> 2:40:36.480 is an this is the best representation of my culture, 2:40:36.800 --> 2:40:39.480 which is like the leftist lesbian. Yeah, they're gonna see 2:40:39.480 --> 2:40:41.640 each other I've ever seen And then it's like yeah, 2:40:41.640 --> 2:40:42.280 and she fucking dies. 2:40:42.280 --> 2:40:45.600 It's it hurts, Like I think like we were able 2:40:45.640 --> 2:40:47.960 to watch these characters develop over the course of like 2:40:48.040 --> 2:40:51.160 a few arcs, right, Like we saw these in the 2:40:51.240 --> 2:40:53.879 Aldanni heist where they were like basically the only two 2:40:53.920 --> 2:40:56.480 people to survive besides casting and like everyone else on 2:40:56.560 --> 2:40:59.680 that ont heist died, right, Yeah, so the lesbians made 2:40:59.680 --> 2:41:02.240 it out of that. They they struggled to maintain their 2:41:02.240 --> 2:41:05.000 relationship in the interim as as things happened. They had 2:41:05.080 --> 2:41:08.280 this emotional reunion here. I think, you know, you could 2:41:08.360 --> 2:41:10.320 you could make an argument maybe you'd be better to 2:41:10.640 --> 2:41:13.440 kill Vow, But we've we've had more development with Vow 2:41:13.560 --> 2:41:17.880 because of being related to mon So, Like, yeah, it is, 2:41:18.160 --> 2:41:21.279 it is, it is. It is tough with like the disposability, 2:41:21.360 --> 2:41:22.880 but that is that is that that is a part 2:41:22.920 --> 2:41:25.240 of us fighting in an environment like this. 2:41:25.600 --> 2:41:29.640 Yeah, it's not that they're disposable, it's that combat is random, 2:41:30.200 --> 2:41:33.760 like and fuck ups are random, like this this exact thing. 2:41:34.000 --> 2:41:36.760 Somebody screws up and shoots when they're not supposed to 2:41:37.000 --> 2:41:40.960 and the bullet doesn't stop. Happens all the goddamn time, 2:41:41.640 --> 2:41:44.160 and like it's part of what fucks people up. If 2:41:44.200 --> 2:41:47.000 you talk to people about there who have war experiences, 2:41:47.040 --> 2:41:48.960 one of the things that will fuck someone up the 2:41:49.080 --> 2:41:52.000 most is watching someone they know and care about get 2:41:52.080 --> 2:41:54.960 turned into pink mist And it's usually a situation where 2:41:55.000 --> 2:41:58.080 somebody hits or steps on or whatever an ied or 2:41:58.160 --> 2:42:00.480 takes a rocket at a bad time, and there's this 2:42:00.640 --> 2:42:03.280 person that you knew and you care about and they're 2:42:03.680 --> 2:42:07.200 three dimensional to you and you probably plan to keep 2:42:07.360 --> 2:42:10.160 knowing them after that, and then they're just fucking missed, 2:42:10.520 --> 2:42:14.560 and it just it shatters people's minds, and that's what happens, 2:42:15.240 --> 2:42:15.920 like and. 2:42:16.160 --> 2:42:19.640 Like yeah, vow's little like speech to to Sam afterwards, 2:42:19.720 --> 2:42:21.200 being like like you are you now have to live 2:42:21.240 --> 2:42:23.840 your entire life knowing that you took this person away, 2:42:24.120 --> 2:42:25.600 and like every action you take for the rest of 2:42:25.600 --> 2:42:26.880 your life is going to be like it's gonna be 2:42:26.959 --> 2:42:29.200 all in all an attempt to like make up for this, 2:42:29.400 --> 2:42:32.040 Like every every every imperial you kill will just be 2:42:32.800 --> 2:42:35.160 one for Cinta, Yeah, because like the Cinta was like 2:42:35.160 --> 2:42:37.160 a professional. This is like the life that she led, 2:42:37.200 --> 2:42:39.080 Like you will never be able to understand how important 2:42:39.120 --> 2:42:40.640 she was. You'll never be able to understand like how 2:42:40.720 --> 2:42:42.840 good she was at this. And you're like a fucking 2:42:42.920 --> 2:42:45.000 like French kid, Yeah, like you don't know what you're 2:42:45.000 --> 2:42:46.680 doing and now you have to spend your entire life 2:42:46.720 --> 2:42:48.720 making up for it. And it was a very hard speech. 2:42:49.000 --> 2:42:50.640 But I think Val did a really good job with 2:42:50.800 --> 2:42:53.400 that and like understanding like the political necessity of like 2:42:53.440 --> 2:42:56.040 you can't let this be like in vain either, like 2:42:56.120 --> 2:42:58.119 you have to like you have to be using him, 2:42:58.360 --> 2:43:01.320 making making his life like worthwhile. Yeah, yeah, and I 2:43:01.400 --> 2:43:03.640 mean yeah, it's it was rough. I mean I would 2:43:03.640 --> 2:43:05.800 love I would love more more like gay characters living 2:43:05.840 --> 2:43:08.080 happy lives in Star Wars, but we rarely see anyone 2:43:08.160 --> 2:43:09.360 living a happy life in Star Wars. 2:43:09.440 --> 2:43:10.800 This is not about happy lives. 2:43:11.040 --> 2:43:13.080 I also, that's not what we're seeing love. 2:43:13.280 --> 2:43:15.039 The thing that doesn't get a huge amount of attention 2:43:15.120 --> 2:43:16.880 in these episodes but is interesting to me is the 2:43:17.000 --> 2:43:20.080 guy that he was he pulled that Matt or whatever 2:43:20.200 --> 2:43:24.400 his name was, Sam Samama, the guy that Samon Man 2:43:24.720 --> 2:43:28.280 told his gun to try to stop, is just this 2:43:28.520 --> 2:43:31.080 random Gorman dude who's like, hey, no, I'm not gonna 2:43:31.160 --> 2:43:33.160 like leave, this is like my city, What are you 2:43:33.240 --> 2:43:33.680 doing here? 2:43:33.920 --> 2:43:34.320 What's going on? 2:43:34.360 --> 2:43:36.680 As soon as he realized that he carries her body 2:43:36.879 --> 2:43:39.640 like he goes with them, you know, and we it's 2:43:39.720 --> 2:43:41.480 kind of unclear is he likes some sort of spot 2:43:41.600 --> 2:43:43.200 or is he literally a Gorman who it the whole 2:43:43.280 --> 2:43:45.720 time was looking for a way to get involved, and 2:43:45.800 --> 2:43:47.720 once he realized what was happening, he's like, yeah, these 2:43:47.720 --> 2:43:48.800 are my people I'm with this. 2:43:49.680 --> 2:43:51.280 Was that the guy from the meeting or was it 2:43:51.320 --> 2:43:53.600 a different the one from the He wasn't. 2:43:53.959 --> 2:43:57.760 He wasn't the Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, so I guess 2:43:57.800 --> 2:44:00.320 he just wasn't in the inner circle. But like he 2:44:00.440 --> 2:44:01.320 hops on, you. 2:44:01.400 --> 2:44:03.920 Know, yeah, but no, I do understand like the racial 2:44:03.959 --> 2:44:06.560 disposability and like the barrier gaze like aspect that could 2:44:06.560 --> 2:44:09.600 be read into this. It's a tough thing to to 2:44:10.000 --> 2:44:12.640 thread here. And I think if if you view this 2:44:12.760 --> 2:44:15.360 in context of all of the people that we have 2:44:15.480 --> 2:44:20.360 seen like get killed, like the entire Aldnnie Crewe, like 2:44:20.520 --> 2:44:23.640 Brass so basically you know, the droid from season one 2:44:23.680 --> 2:44:26.640 gets like abandoned on that planet, I think, like it 2:44:27.040 --> 2:44:29.480 does it does make sense. I think in that larger context, 2:44:29.959 --> 2:44:32.600 I think there's a way that not everyone like has 2:44:32.680 --> 2:44:36.520 to die to lead to rogue one like besides Cassian, No, 2:44:36.680 --> 2:44:39.920 not everyone, but but someone like since and like frankly, 2:44:40.040 --> 2:44:43.360 like someone like Sinta the type of militant she is 2:44:43.920 --> 2:44:45.680 they do have a short life span, like that is 2:44:45.760 --> 2:44:48.000 that is part of the specific thing Sinta is doing. 2:44:48.800 --> 2:44:51.120 Is like you burn fast and you burn bright, and 2:44:51.240 --> 2:44:53.400 sometimes you will die in a way that's like really 2:44:53.440 --> 2:44:57.040 purposeless and that fucking sucks. And that happens in war, 2:44:57.160 --> 2:44:59.800 that happens in like activist spaces, like that happens. That 2:45:00.000 --> 2:45:03.520 happens in the United States with people here and often 2:45:03.600 --> 2:45:07.080 they are like non white gay people. Yeah, like that's 2:45:07.120 --> 2:45:11.119 what happened in Atlanta. So like these these things happen. 2:45:11.280 --> 2:45:14.920 The number of people who committed suicide too after twenty twenty, 2:45:15.120 --> 2:45:17.440 you know, like, yeah. 2:45:17.600 --> 2:45:19.080 Do we have anything else you want to want to 2:45:19.120 --> 2:45:19.480 say me? 2:45:19.720 --> 2:45:20.240 Do do you have anything? 2:45:20.280 --> 2:45:23.400 When I close that on as the president, non white 2:45:23.480 --> 2:45:26.000 lesbian on the podcast. 2:45:25.760 --> 2:45:32.400 They killed by lesbian. So it's sad there aren't. What 2:45:33.360 --> 2:45:35.160 is the next time I'm getting a non white lesbian 2:45:35.240 --> 2:45:36.800 in Star Wars is gonna work? Like I Am going 2:45:36.840 --> 2:45:39.640 to be right, like raising a black flag over Shensend. 2:45:39.680 --> 2:45:41.160 But the next time we get another one. 2:45:41.040 --> 2:45:44.040 Of these characters of the series, you know, we had 2:45:44.480 --> 2:45:48.040 we we had a non white lesbian uh in Acolyte 2:45:48.120 --> 2:45:51.680 who also taught it. Yeah, yeah, I do not see 2:45:51.720 --> 2:45:54.480 people talking about the barrier gay stuff with the Acolyte as. 2:45:54.400 --> 2:45:57.840 Well, nobody because because it wasn't bad. 2:45:57.879 --> 2:45:59.800 But I think it's also worth I think it's also 2:45:59.840 --> 2:46:01.880 where remembering like like this is this is a show 2:46:01.959 --> 2:46:04.760 starring like a non white leading role, like like a 2:46:04.840 --> 2:46:08.039 Cassian is not white. So I think that the racial 2:46:08.120 --> 2:46:10.880 politics are a little bit, a little bit more more complex. 2:46:10.920 --> 2:46:12.400 I think some people are discussing. 2:46:12.480 --> 2:46:17.440 But yeah, all right, well these episodes have been amazing. 2:46:17.760 --> 2:46:23.480 Everybody get into inhalance, uh and steal fuel from the military. 2:46:24.120 --> 2:46:25.759 That's the message of vandor. 2:46:26.920 --> 2:46:27.600 Run wild. 2:46:30.920 --> 2:46:31.400 Don't do that. 2:46:31.520 --> 2:46:33.519 That's a joke legally, Okay. 2:46:57.800 --> 2:47:01.040 This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder our weekly 2:47:01.120 --> 2:47:04.039 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, 2:47:04.080 --> 2:47:06.280 and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis today, 2:47:06.440 --> 2:47:10.280 joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, and Robert Evans. This episode, 2:47:10.320 --> 2:47:13.760 we're covering the week of April thirtieth to May seventh. 2:47:14.320 --> 2:47:17.840 Yes, when you think of ED, you think about rigid 2:47:18.360 --> 2:47:23.480 cylindrical things now flying at high speed towards miss That's 2:47:23.480 --> 2:47:25.760 a bad way to introduce the facts. There's now a 2:47:25.879 --> 2:47:29.440 war going on between India and Pakistan. Chris, I don't 2:47:29.440 --> 2:47:31.120 know what else are we supposed to do? How are 2:47:31.160 --> 2:47:34.480 we supposed to go into this? Pakistan and India are 2:47:34.600 --> 2:47:35.120 are shooting. 2:47:35.879 --> 2:47:38.680 Yeah's okay, okay, I'm going to attempt to do a 2:47:38.879 --> 2:47:41.960 very very very very brief Please God like, do not 2:47:42.160 --> 2:47:45.720 let this be the extent of your knowledge about this conflict. 2:47:45.879 --> 2:47:51.320 But yeah, okay, here is one paragraph about this. So 2:47:51.879 --> 2:47:57.720 when India gains and Pakistan eventually gained independence from the 2:47:57.879 --> 2:48:01.720 UK and the British Empire, there was the partition. This 2:48:01.879 --> 2:48:05.480 is a process in which millions died and India and 2:48:05.480 --> 2:48:07.960 Pakistan were split into two states. 2:48:08.200 --> 2:48:11.760 Millions die as a result of the disruption to infrastructure 2:48:11.800 --> 2:48:13.439 and as a result of mascular. 2:48:13.160 --> 2:48:17.040 Yeah, and again people fleeing like back and forth between 2:48:17.080 --> 2:48:21.360 the two places. There's been a studio territory for fucking ever. 2:48:22.040 --> 2:48:24.199 One of the most contentious parts of this has always 2:48:24.280 --> 2:48:28.160 been Kashmir. Large walk There's a whole complicated thing here. 2:48:28.240 --> 2:48:32.120 But so Kashmir was sort of split in two. There's 2:48:32.160 --> 2:48:35.959 an almost entirely Muslim like territory that ends up under 2:48:36.000 --> 2:48:39.400 the control of India and India has waged a brutal 2:48:39.440 --> 2:48:42.880 military occupation of Kashmir since they got it. Basically, it 2:48:43.080 --> 2:48:46.360 ramps up and down in terms of like how bad 2:48:46.560 --> 2:48:50.560 it is, but it's never good. Yeah, And this has 2:48:50.600 --> 2:48:53.840 been a constant source ofttension between India and Pakistan, where 2:48:54.200 --> 2:48:57.000 you know, Pakistan has played its card of like we 2:48:57.160 --> 2:49:01.360 are like the defenders of Muslims in in India. And 2:49:02.080 --> 2:49:04.200 there's been a series of wars also, but this this 2:49:04.360 --> 2:49:05.560 is one of the few times where you can say 2:49:05.560 --> 2:49:07.680 there were gedocides on both sides and it's true because 2:49:08.200 --> 2:49:10.520 like one of the wars that they fought was because 2:49:10.720 --> 2:49:14.360 of the jedicide that Pakistan did in what became Bangladesh. 2:49:14.520 --> 2:49:16.920 So like, there are no heroes in this story. There 2:49:17.000 --> 2:49:19.200 is only I mean, I guess, like you know, there 2:49:19.240 --> 2:49:21.720 are people resisting repression from both states. 2:49:21.720 --> 2:49:24.000 There are good people, but neither of the states have 2:49:24.160 --> 2:49:24.800 clean ams. 2:49:24.879 --> 2:49:28.160 Yeah, but the states suck shit, right, Like you know, 2:49:28.240 --> 2:49:32.000 let let's be clear about that Kashmir is one of 2:49:32.120 --> 2:49:34.440 the most militarized places in the world. It got much 2:49:34.560 --> 2:49:37.480 much worse after twenty nineteen, when India withdrew the autonomous 2:49:37.520 --> 2:49:40.560 status that kashmiir had had. This sparked a bunch of protests. 2:49:40.560 --> 2:49:44.800 They're horribly repressed. There's been staggering numbers of people have 2:49:44.920 --> 2:49:47.520 died over the past like thirty years. There look a 2:49:47.560 --> 2:49:49.879 lot of like Hesbra's accesis, the outside world has been 2:49:49.920 --> 2:49:54.160 cut off. It's difficult to get people like in to it. 2:49:54.680 --> 2:49:57.320 And obviously, you know, the thing about occupations is that 2:49:57.360 --> 2:49:59.480 there's been a very very long running series of sort 2:49:59.520 --> 2:50:04.120 of insertion sees and militant groups in Kashmir of various kinds. 2:50:04.879 --> 2:50:09.000 Pakistan has funded some of these groups as a way 2:50:09.040 --> 2:50:12.320 to sort of like poke a stick at India, and 2:50:12.480 --> 2:50:17.880 in late April a group killed twenty odd twenty six 2:50:17.959 --> 2:50:21.520 I think, yeah, twenty six, I think yeah, I think 2:50:21.520 --> 2:50:25.880 that's the final number, like Hindu tourists in Kashmir. It's 2:50:25.920 --> 2:50:29.680 worth noting that there's no actual evidence that Pakistan is 2:50:29.840 --> 2:50:31.320 behind this, but. 2:50:32.000 --> 2:50:33.680 No, but that's India's claim. 2:50:34.000 --> 2:50:35.840 Yeah, that's India's claim. And this is causings to get 2:50:35.879 --> 2:50:38.080 really really bad in Kashmir itself, which is the part 2:50:38.120 --> 2:50:39.800 of this I think has gotten lost in a lot 2:50:39.800 --> 2:50:41.800 of the discussions here, which is like like if you 2:50:41.920 --> 2:50:45.400 if you read statements from from like I mean, like, A, 2:50:45.520 --> 2:50:47.880 there's just been like an incredible intensification of oppression and 2:50:47.959 --> 2:50:51.600 b if you read statements from Indian officials, they are 2:50:51.640 --> 2:50:54.119 they're just straight up talking about quote like Indian style 2:50:54.240 --> 2:50:57.760 final solutions for Kashmir. It's completely unhinged. The Indian state 2:50:57.959 --> 2:51:01.120 has gone into this. I mean, like, you know, it's Mody, right. 2:51:01.200 --> 2:51:04.080 Mody is running probably the world's most effective fascist government 2:51:05.080 --> 2:51:06.840 and his thing is always like a huge part of 2:51:06.879 --> 2:51:09.959 it has always been specifically about like wanting to repress Muslims, 2:51:10.400 --> 2:51:14.440 and this, you know, has has kicked the homophobia into 2:51:15.040 --> 2:51:18.640 an absolute fever pitch. And the product of this is 2:51:18.680 --> 2:51:20.879 that they have started doing strikes inside of Pakistan. I'm 2:51:20.879 --> 2:51:22.440 going to pass it over to Robert talk about like 2:51:22.720 --> 2:51:25.880 what does have looked like in what this conflict has been. Yeah. 2:51:26.520 --> 2:51:29.080 So, and it's important to know that during this terrorist attack, 2:51:29.160 --> 2:51:31.000 one of the big things that is alleged is that 2:51:31.400 --> 2:51:33.880 husbands were executed in front of their wives. Yeah, that 2:51:34.080 --> 2:51:37.280 is going to be relevant for the name of the 2:51:37.400 --> 2:51:40.760 operation that India is in the process of carrying out 2:51:40.840 --> 2:51:43.680 right now. Prior to in the immediate wake of that attack, 2:51:44.200 --> 2:51:48.240 everyone knew some shit was going to go down on 2:51:48.360 --> 2:51:51.040 the border. India was going to do something, in part 2:51:51.080 --> 2:51:55.360 because India said they were going to do something. Right JD. Vance, 2:51:55.680 --> 2:51:58.480 the Peacemaker, as we call him, I don't believe anyone 2:51:58.520 --> 2:52:00.560 else has ever been called that, and they history of 2:52:01.040 --> 2:52:03.320 government or popular media. So yeah, that seems like a 2:52:03.360 --> 2:52:06.000 good nickname for him. Went to India like a day 2:52:06.080 --> 2:52:08.360 or two before this all happened to calm things down. 2:52:08.720 --> 2:52:11.160 This is often making a visit to the Pope or 2:52:11.320 --> 2:52:11.800 to tell. 2:52:11.800 --> 2:52:14.600 Mody do whatever. Like, we don't know actually what he said. 2:52:14.720 --> 2:52:16.240 Some people are like Vance must have given him the 2:52:16.240 --> 2:52:18.680 go ahead. I think it's just as likely Vance was like, hey, 2:52:18.720 --> 2:52:20.600 we don't really want a war right now? Can he 2:52:20.640 --> 2:52:23.320 calm shit down? And Mody didn't listen, or that Vance 2:52:23.480 --> 2:52:25.960 just didn't even have anything meaningful to say. We actually 2:52:25.959 --> 2:52:30.040 don't know at the moment. But last night India started 2:52:30.080 --> 2:52:34.320 carrying out what they are calling operations Sindoor si Indo 2:52:34.640 --> 2:52:39.040 R is how it is generally anglicized. The name of 2:52:39.160 --> 2:52:42.440 the operation comes from. Again. I mentioned a little earlier 2:52:42.480 --> 2:52:45.400 that during that terrorist attack in Kashmir, Hindu men were 2:52:45.480 --> 2:52:48.560 killed in front of their wives, Sindoor is a word 2:52:48.760 --> 2:52:52.120 that refers to this kind of colored dye that I 2:52:52.200 --> 2:52:54.680 believe it's like a bridal thing that like women put in. 2:52:55.040 --> 2:52:57.879 I think it's in their hair. But it's a reference 2:52:57.959 --> 2:52:59.879 to something that is part of like a traditional Hindu 2:53:00.360 --> 2:53:02.840 wedding and something that the bride does. And so it 2:53:02.959 --> 2:53:05.560 was specifically named this in order to make it very clear, 2:53:05.920 --> 2:53:08.879 this is vengeance for that attack. Right, Like that's why 2:53:08.959 --> 2:53:10.680 it was named what it was. Okay, does that all 2:53:10.720 --> 2:53:13.800 make sense? Yeah, sorry, I've got here. Sindor is the 2:53:13.840 --> 2:53:16.160 Hindi word for vermilion, which is the red pignant Hindu 2:53:16.240 --> 2:53:19.120 women applied to their forehead, right, So like that, and 2:53:19.280 --> 2:53:21.520 so it's a reference also to the fact that these 2:53:21.600 --> 2:53:23.720 terrorists are said to have like shot their victims in 2:53:23.760 --> 2:53:24.240 the forehead. 2:53:24.360 --> 2:53:24.480 Right. 2:53:24.560 --> 2:53:29.120 So there's a lot going on there basically. Yeah, but 2:53:29.360 --> 2:53:33.160 that's what's relevant. So when it comes to this what's happening, 2:53:33.280 --> 2:53:36.280 first off, perfectly reasonable to call what's happening war. India 2:53:36.320 --> 2:53:38.720 has launched cross border strikes. They appear to have launched 2:53:38.760 --> 2:53:43.119 both cruise missiles and air strikes using modern jets. 2:53:43.440 --> 2:53:43.560 Right. 2:53:44.000 --> 2:53:48.320 Pakistan has responded with modern military air defenses. What we 2:53:48.440 --> 2:53:51.200 can safely say right now is that this is the 2:53:51.480 --> 2:53:56.800 first full twenty first century here on peer military action. 2:53:57.000 --> 2:53:58.920 And I know, as came up in the meeting, people 2:53:58.920 --> 2:54:02.680 are gonna say, well, Ukraine, not entirely Ukraine and Russia. 2:54:03.240 --> 2:54:05.640 There is a degree to which that is true, because 2:54:05.760 --> 2:54:08.520 Ukraine is armed by states that are peer or more 2:54:08.560 --> 2:54:11.520 than peer to Russia in terms of military technology. But 2:54:11.760 --> 2:54:14.320 Ukraine does not have an industrial base that is in 2:54:14.360 --> 2:54:17.400 any way comparable to Russia's. They're not capable of manufacturing 2:54:17.480 --> 2:54:20.120 the weaponry that they need to compete with Russia on 2:54:20.160 --> 2:54:23.120 the battlefield on their own. That's why international aid has 2:54:23.160 --> 2:54:27.800 been so critical. Pakistan and India are both effectively peers 2:54:28.280 --> 2:54:30.959 in that they both do purchase weaponry a lot from 2:54:31.000 --> 2:54:33.960 other countries, but they also have domestic arms industries, and 2:54:34.040 --> 2:54:37.000 they have potent domestic militaries that are armed to a 2:54:37.160 --> 2:54:41.920 comparable standard. Right, And so there's a few things happening here. 2:54:42.000 --> 2:54:44.320 I do not want to lose count of the fact 2:54:44.360 --> 2:54:48.240 that people are dying. Obviously, civilians died in that attack 2:54:48.320 --> 2:54:51.280 in Kashmir. At the moment, it looks like the death 2:54:51.360 --> 2:54:54.120 toll from the initial Indian strikes is somewhere around forty. 2:54:54.200 --> 2:54:57.080 Pakistan is claiming the vast majority of those are civilians. 2:54:57.440 --> 2:55:00.920 India is claiming that they only hit infant structure associated 2:55:00.959 --> 2:55:03.680 with the terrorist group that they believe carried out the 2:55:03.760 --> 2:55:07.280 attacks in Kashmir that they claim is being supported by Pakistan. 2:55:07.879 --> 2:55:11.840 There is substantial evidence the majority of the dead are civilians. 2:55:12.040 --> 2:55:14.680 People have claimed that large chunks of their families were 2:55:14.720 --> 2:55:17.160 wiped out in these strikes. I don't see any reason 2:55:17.200 --> 2:55:20.039 to doubt that, knowing how air strikes work. A good 2:55:20.160 --> 2:55:22.160 number of the dead, though, have also occurred as a 2:55:22.200 --> 2:55:26.080 result of cross border artillery fire, and it's unclear to 2:55:26.160 --> 2:55:28.760 me if India and Pakistan have had a full on 2:55:28.959 --> 2:55:31.680 artillery duel across the border, or if this is Pakistan's 2:55:31.760 --> 2:55:34.760 artillery firing back in response to the air strikes. That 2:55:34.840 --> 2:55:37.480 part is unclear. There are also videos where you can 2:55:37.600 --> 2:55:40.280 hear small arms fire, so machine guns and the like, 2:55:40.959 --> 2:55:43.920 and reports that that is coming from Pakistan's side too. 2:55:44.280 --> 2:55:47.000 It's possible there is a cross border direct arm engagement. 2:55:47.360 --> 2:55:49.360 It's possible no one died as a result of the 2:55:49.400 --> 2:55:52.880 small arms fire. Given the distances that this is occurring 2:55:52.879 --> 2:55:54.480 at right that the only nets have been due to 2:55:54.520 --> 2:55:57.880 field artillery and due to missile strikes. Right, that seems 2:55:58.040 --> 2:56:00.480 likely at this point. It's possible to death is much 2:56:00.560 --> 2:56:03.480 higher than forty. But that's somewhere around there is what's 2:56:03.520 --> 2:56:07.920 been confirmed right now. Now we have talked about the deaths. Obviously, 2:56:08.080 --> 2:56:10.800 the biggest concern is the loss in human life. Here, 2:56:11.280 --> 2:56:14.000 I am going to talk about what this means on 2:56:14.120 --> 2:56:16.920 a military level, because that is relevant both how this 2:56:17.080 --> 2:56:20.320 conflict is going to proceed and how future conflicts are 2:56:20.360 --> 2:56:22.480 going to proceed, because we have not seen a peer 2:56:22.560 --> 2:56:25.160 on peer fight like this before in this century. 2:56:25.400 --> 2:56:25.520 Right. 2:56:26.160 --> 2:56:29.360 So, one of the more important things as to how 2:56:29.400 --> 2:56:31.640 this has preceded is that a number of the jets 2:56:31.680 --> 2:56:34.040 that India launched across the border are what are called 2:56:34.120 --> 2:56:37.680 refalls our afal e. This is a French fighter jet. 2:56:38.120 --> 2:56:41.360 It is broadly considered to be equivalent to an F 2:56:41.440 --> 2:56:45.560 eighteen super Hornet. Now, I say that if you go 2:56:45.760 --> 2:56:48.680 online and you listen to people who are nerds about 2:56:48.760 --> 2:56:51.760 fighter jets, they will pull a knife on you for 2:56:51.879 --> 2:56:55.360 claiming that, right, there are major differences between the two airframes. 2:56:56.520 --> 2:56:58.840 One of them is that the Refall is a larger plane, 2:56:58.920 --> 2:57:01.280 which means it's theoretically capable of got theoretically it is 2:57:01.360 --> 2:57:04.880 capable of a significantly higher payload. However, there's a couple 2:57:04.920 --> 2:57:06.840 of problems that come with that. One is that the 2:57:06.959 --> 2:57:09.520 super Hornet not only is it a smaller craft, but 2:57:09.600 --> 2:57:12.000 it is built for carrier duty, which means it's wings 2:57:12.000 --> 2:57:14.040 fold yeata. You can fit more of them on a carrier. 2:57:14.280 --> 2:57:16.360 They take off and land more easily from a carrier, 2:57:16.640 --> 2:57:18.680 or a fall can take off and land from a carrier, 2:57:18.760 --> 2:57:20.400 but it has to have a different load out right. 2:57:20.840 --> 2:57:24.600 The other issue, a super Hornet can stay supersonic with 2:57:24.760 --> 2:57:28.000 its full payload for longer periods of time. That means 2:57:28.040 --> 2:57:30.440 that it can be breaking the sound barrier consistently, not 2:57:30.560 --> 2:57:32.600 just using its after burner for like a quick burst 2:57:32.640 --> 2:57:35.680 of speed. That matters because the faster you're going, the 2:57:35.800 --> 2:57:38.680 harder you are to shoot down. The primary eritor ground 2:57:38.720 --> 2:57:41.720 package it has is what's called a hammer, and that's 2:57:41.720 --> 2:57:44.560 an acronym hammer. I don't know what it stands for 2:57:44.680 --> 2:57:46.600 off the top of my head, but they are between 2:57:46.680 --> 2:57:48.800 two hundred and fifty and one thousand pounds each. 2:57:49.000 --> 2:57:49.120 Right. 2:57:49.200 --> 2:57:51.280 These are their air to ground munitions that they are 2:57:51.320 --> 2:57:54.280 equipped with. Standard it's possible India has a separate load 2:57:54.320 --> 2:57:56.760 out for them. I don't actually know. This is their 2:57:56.800 --> 2:58:00.879 standard armament now. They can only have their full complement 2:58:01.480 --> 2:58:04.800 if they're not going supersonic, so they cannot go supersonic 2:58:04.879 --> 2:58:07.039 for a comparable period of time to a super Hornet 2:58:07.080 --> 2:58:10.520 if they have a full compliment. From a military technology standpoint, 2:58:10.640 --> 2:58:13.080 the biggest news from the initial stage of the strike 2:58:13.680 --> 2:58:17.119 is that at least one of these refalls has been destroyed. 2:58:17.440 --> 2:58:21.480 There's decent evidence that potentially another two. If India lost 2:58:21.600 --> 2:58:24.720 three of these jets, they have thirty six. That is 2:58:24.800 --> 2:58:29.000 a meaningful degradation of their entire air force capability to 2:58:29.080 --> 2:58:32.400 strike right Losing these jets and they cannot be replaced 2:58:32.440 --> 2:58:35.480 on any kind of timeframe that is comparable to how 2:58:35.560 --> 2:58:39.600 quickly they're being shot down. Pakistan is claiming significantly more 2:58:39.680 --> 2:58:42.560 that they Pakistan's claim is that they've downed three Rafalls, 2:58:42.840 --> 2:58:45.960 one MiG twenty nine, one SU thirty MKI and at 2:58:46.040 --> 2:58:50.120 least one Israeli made Herondrone. People generally say Pakistan is 2:58:50.120 --> 2:58:54.600 probably exaggerating. However, French authorities have confirmed at least one Refall, 2:58:54.720 --> 2:58:57.320 and there's two more than possibilities that are being looked into. 2:58:57.840 --> 2:59:00.200 It's possible three planes were downed, but only one are 2:59:00.200 --> 2:59:02.680 a fall. We don't really know yet, right, but even 2:59:02.760 --> 2:59:05.400 one is a meaningful loss, and the fact that it 2:59:05.560 --> 2:59:08.280 was downed says a couple of things. One thing is 2:59:08.360 --> 2:59:11.400 that there's a decent chance. What I suspect we might hear, 2:59:11.879 --> 2:59:14.560 especially if three of these went down, is that India 2:59:14.600 --> 2:59:17.520 sent these things off with a full strike package, so 2:59:17.600 --> 2:59:19.880 they were not able to go as fast as they 2:59:19.920 --> 2:59:23.039 normally can, and thus we're not able to evade Pakistan's 2:59:23.080 --> 2:59:26.520 anti air defenses. Right, That may be what happened. The 2:59:26.600 --> 2:59:29.680 other thing that we're seeing here is that Pakistan is equipped. 2:59:29.720 --> 2:59:32.520 They buy the best part and Pakistan has a lot 2:59:32.560 --> 2:59:34.560 of S three hundreds and S four hundreds, I believe, 2:59:34.600 --> 2:59:36.720 which are like what we've seen in Ukraine. Those have 2:59:36.800 --> 2:59:39.560 had a very mixed operational history in terms of their 2:59:39.600 --> 2:59:43.280 capability to take out modern aircraft. Pakistan also has a 2:59:43.320 --> 2:59:46.640 lot of PL fifteen radar guided anti air missiles. These 2:59:46.680 --> 2:59:49.480 are Chinese anti aircraft missiles. They have never been used 2:59:49.520 --> 2:59:52.360 in combat before. If you're a nerd for like modern 2:59:52.440 --> 2:59:55.120 military technology, one of the things people have been talking 2:59:55.120 --> 2:59:56.840 about in that field for a long time is like 2:59:56.879 --> 3:00:00.040 how are these going to function? And we just I 3:00:00.040 --> 3:00:02.720 know that they've been used because wreckage from them has 3:00:02.800 --> 3:00:05.960 been found and photographed and people who are experts in 3:00:06.040 --> 3:00:09.800 these missiles online have confirmed this is from this weapons package. 3:00:10.320 --> 3:00:13.320 It is very likely that the Rafaal that was down 3:00:13.520 --> 3:00:15.360 was downed by this missile, and if more than one 3:00:15.440 --> 3:00:17.280 was down, that they were all downed by these missiles. 3:00:17.640 --> 3:00:20.720 So that tells us a lot about the comparable capabilities 3:00:21.000 --> 3:00:23.960 of both this modern Western fighter that the French are 3:00:24.000 --> 3:00:27.480 selling and of this Chinese anti aircraft missile. Right, And 3:00:27.600 --> 3:00:30.160 so that's really relevant if we're looking at both how 3:00:30.280 --> 3:00:32.360 this conflict is going to proceed, because I don't want 3:00:32.360 --> 3:00:34.200 to be coming at from this bloodless like, oh, I'm 3:00:34.240 --> 3:00:37.320 just interested in the military strategy part. This is relevant 3:00:37.360 --> 3:00:40.160 because if India has lost three of these advanced fighters 3:00:40.640 --> 3:00:43.840 that they cannot replace on any kind of comparable timeframe 3:00:44.000 --> 3:00:47.840 in the first few hours of strikes, that suggests one 3:00:47.920 --> 3:00:51.560 of two potential future outcomes. Number One, the tempo of 3:00:51.760 --> 3:00:54.920 use of advanced aircraft and this war is going to 3:00:55.120 --> 3:00:58.120 change considerably as it drags into the next stages, right, 3:00:58.200 --> 3:01:01.480 because they simply can't maintain that tempo, that can't continue 3:01:01.480 --> 3:01:04.039 to take those sort of risks, and that either means 3:01:04.879 --> 3:01:08.520 moving on to a lot more ground engagements between infantry, 3:01:08.600 --> 3:01:11.360 between tanks, between artillery, like direct face to face shit 3:01:11.879 --> 3:01:14.600 or a potential for escalating things to the next level 3:01:14.640 --> 3:01:16.760 And the only next level higher than where we're at 3:01:17.160 --> 3:01:20.640 is nuclear, right. I don't think that is the likeliest outcome. 3:01:20.800 --> 3:01:23.640 I do not think a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and 3:01:23.760 --> 3:01:27.760 India is the likeliest thing at this point. However, the 3:01:27.920 --> 3:01:30.320 rate at which India is a tritting air assets means 3:01:30.360 --> 3:01:32.080 that they're going to have to make a choice in 3:01:32.160 --> 3:01:35.280 the not too distant future. Right, Although it's also worth 3:01:35.360 --> 3:01:38.840 noting we don't know entirely the degree to which Pakistan's 3:01:38.879 --> 3:01:41.360 anti air defenses have been attreated by this. Right, there's 3:01:41.360 --> 3:01:43.720 a lot of open there's a lot of unknown unknowns 3:01:43.800 --> 3:01:44.800 and known unknowns here. 3:01:45.000 --> 3:01:45.120 Right. 3:01:45.240 --> 3:01:48.160 As our good friend Rumsfeld would say, I will say 3:01:48.200 --> 3:01:50.800 the other issue here, if there is a nuclear exchange, 3:01:51.360 --> 3:01:54.279 it's going to be the greatest humanitarian catastrophe of the century. 3:01:54.720 --> 3:01:57.160 That doesn't mean it's going to be a nuclear war 3:01:57.440 --> 3:01:59.920 across the entire world. And that shouldn't be your first concern. 3:02:00.120 --> 3:02:02.120 Your first concern should be that that would still mean 3:02:02.200 --> 3:02:05.640 millions of deaths in India and Pakistan, potentially at least 3:02:05.760 --> 3:02:06.520 hundreds of thousands. 3:02:06.760 --> 3:02:06.880 Right. 3:02:07.320 --> 3:02:09.800 The concern is not they start so everyone else does, 3:02:09.879 --> 3:02:13.200 it's they start and thus the worst humanitarian disaster since 3:02:13.280 --> 3:02:14.360 World War Two occurs. 3:02:14.959 --> 3:02:15.160 Yeah. 3:02:15.200 --> 3:02:17.840 I mean some of the most densely populated cities on 3:02:18.000 --> 3:02:20.640 Earth are in this region. Like a strike in any 3:02:20.680 --> 3:02:22.160 major city that would be devastating. 3:02:22.400 --> 3:02:24.440 Yeah, a strike in Islamabad would be the worst thing 3:02:24.520 --> 3:02:27.680 that's happened, possibly since the Holocaust in terms of like 3:02:27.840 --> 3:02:30.240 human death told due to human actions. 3:02:30.720 --> 3:02:32.480 Yeah, it's pretty bad. 3:02:33.000 --> 3:02:33.200 I know. 3:02:33.400 --> 3:02:36.720 India claimed that they were launching a quote non escalatory 3:02:36.800 --> 3:02:38.560 strike in it so much as that means shit. 3:02:38.840 --> 3:02:39.000 Yes. 3:02:39.360 --> 3:02:42.000 They also claimed that they PL fifteen didn't have its 3:02:42.040 --> 3:02:44.560 intercept ahead, which I guess the French intelligence refuted. 3:02:44.720 --> 3:02:47.080 Yeah, and this is all There's a lot that's unknown 3:02:47.280 --> 3:02:49.480 about kind of how these weapons have performed. Still, but 3:02:49.600 --> 3:02:52.120 these are from a in terms of both how this 3:02:52.240 --> 3:02:55.160 conflict is going to proceed and how future conflicts will proceed. 3:02:55.480 --> 3:02:57.160 These are things you should be looking at because these 3:02:57.200 --> 3:02:59.760 weapons platforms, these are this is important in terms of 3:03:00.080 --> 3:03:01.600 what war is going to continue to look like. 3:03:02.440 --> 3:03:04.360 I think it's also worth noting a couple of things. 3:03:04.680 --> 3:03:08.640 One is that this is by far the largest like 3:03:09.360 --> 3:03:11.560 clash that these countries have had in a long time. 3:03:11.640 --> 3:03:14.440 But also like there have been like periodic like cross 3:03:14.480 --> 3:03:17.360 border skirmishes around cashume for a while now, right like 3:03:17.400 --> 3:03:20.119 there was a pretty big flare up in twenty twenty 3:03:20.240 --> 3:03:22.680 that kind of less than twenty twenty one, And so 3:03:22.800 --> 3:03:25.760 there is a chance that this doesn't turn into a 3:03:25.800 --> 3:03:28.120 full scale war and that you get something more like 3:03:28.840 --> 3:03:33.640 what happened sort of recently with Israel and Ran where 3:03:33.680 --> 3:03:36.680 they like bomb each other a few times and then 3:03:36.680 --> 3:03:38.560 everyone sort of packs up their bags and goes home 3:03:38.640 --> 3:03:41.840 and continues to like poke each other with milton groups 3:03:42.080 --> 3:03:46.000 instead of it being like tanks. And I think that 3:03:46.200 --> 3:03:50.160 is like orders of magnitude more likely than like nukes flying. 3:03:50.920 --> 3:03:53.840 Just it's sort of like, yeah, like the chance at 3:03:53.879 --> 3:03:55.920 which these people start shooting dukes to each other is 3:03:56.040 --> 3:03:58.440 not very high. Like yes, just like in the history 3:03:58.480 --> 3:04:00.920 of nuclear weapons too, you have to underst that, like 3:04:01.000 --> 3:04:03.040 some of the most unhinged people who have ever lived, 3:04:03.120 --> 3:04:06.200 like Curtis le may like the US and the Soviets 3:04:06.280 --> 3:04:09.160 never did it like Mao Mao and the Soviets never 3:04:09.240 --> 3:04:12.760 did it. Like apartheid South Africa had nuclear weapons and 3:04:12.840 --> 3:04:15.000 never used them. Some of the worst people who have 3:04:15.040 --> 3:04:17.360 ever lived have had access to nukes, have never fired them. 3:04:17.680 --> 3:04:20.320 The odds that you're gonna die in nuclear fire are 3:04:20.760 --> 3:04:23.560 very very very very very low. It's not good. No, 3:04:23.720 --> 3:04:26.520 everything that's happening here is very bad. But like you 3:04:26.840 --> 3:04:30.360 do not need to be like living in existential terror 3:04:30.520 --> 3:04:33.360 of like fire ring from the sky. That's not like 3:04:33.440 --> 3:04:35.040 a reasonable reaction to this, and I've been seeing a 3:04:35.040 --> 3:04:35.320 lot of that. 3:04:35.520 --> 3:04:40.000 So no, it's far from the likeliest outcome, and your 3:04:40.040 --> 3:04:43.400 primary concern should be to people who are living there 3:04:43.480 --> 3:04:43.879 right now. 3:04:44.280 --> 3:04:45.680 Yeah, yeah, right. 3:04:45.920 --> 3:04:48.360 You know, it's worth noting that the nineteen ninety nine, 3:04:48.440 --> 3:04:51.920 the Cargo War, that was not an insignificant death toll, right, 3:04:52.160 --> 3:04:56.320 Like you're talking probably like certainly more than a thousand, 3:04:56.440 --> 3:04:58.760 I think a thousand to a couple of thousand people, 3:04:59.640 --> 3:05:03.280 So that would not be that's not certainly not out 3:05:03.400 --> 3:05:06.240 of the question without it escalating in that way. I 3:05:06.280 --> 3:05:09.200 think the primary concern that you always have, and why 3:05:09.240 --> 3:05:11.760 I bring up weapons systems. Is that countries think in 3:05:11.920 --> 3:05:13.640 terms of stuff like this a lot. This is a 3:05:13.680 --> 3:05:15.280 big part of why we get World War one, Right. 3:05:15.360 --> 3:05:17.520 You have these nations that are arming, and they're always 3:05:17.560 --> 3:05:20.039 concerned with how do my weapons compare to my neighbors 3:05:20.640 --> 3:05:22.520 if we go to war. Now, I feel pretty good 3:05:22.560 --> 3:05:25.119 about where I'm at, and if I wait another two years, 3:05:25.200 --> 3:05:27.960 maybe they'll be in a better position. And thinking like 3:05:28.080 --> 3:05:30.960 that is part of the planning that's going on in 3:05:31.000 --> 3:05:33.320 these states, and the planning about when do we escalate 3:05:33.360 --> 3:05:36.000 and how do we escalate? Right, do we move to 3:05:36.040 --> 3:05:38.600 a point where we've got masses of infantry shooting at 3:05:38.600 --> 3:05:41.840 each other, Well, maybe if we can't risk the continued 3:05:41.840 --> 3:05:44.600 attrition of our advanced air assets, we do that, or 3:05:44.640 --> 3:05:47.080 maybe we make another decision. That's why it's relevant to 3:05:47.160 --> 3:05:48.800 know about this stuff, not because you want to nerd 3:05:48.879 --> 3:05:50.840 out over who's got the coolest missile and who's got 3:05:50.920 --> 3:05:53.400 the coolest planes, but because that is very much how 3:05:53.480 --> 3:05:57.000 states think. Right Anyway, before we got to add this 3:05:57.080 --> 3:05:59.640 back to the executive dysfunction, because that is what this 3:05:59.720 --> 3:06:03.160 is a yeah, not the current Wars podcast. In the 3:06:03.240 --> 3:06:06.560 immediate wake of all of this, President Trump was asked about, Hey, 3:06:07.800 --> 3:06:10.640 how about these two nuclear armed states going to war? 3:06:10.920 --> 3:06:13.560 What do you think about that? And he gave a, 3:06:14.080 --> 3:06:18.280 you know, just a traditionally eloquent, you know, Donald Trump response, 3:06:18.600 --> 3:06:20.840 It's a shame we just heard about it. I guess 3:06:20.959 --> 3:06:23.200 people knew something was going to happen based on a 3:06:23.240 --> 3:06:25.560 little bit of the past. They've been fighting for a 3:06:25.640 --> 3:06:32.920 long time. I just hope it ends quickly. Me too, buddy, correct, 3:06:33.720 --> 3:06:39.640 I guess I guess they've been fighting for a long time. Okay, anyway, 3:06:40.360 --> 3:06:41.240 let's go to ads. 3:06:53.360 --> 3:06:56.280 All right, we are back. I'm gonna talk now about 3:06:56.360 --> 3:07:03.480 some other horrifying geopolitical news. Hey, this is Garrison from Friday, 3:07:03.640 --> 3:07:06.640 May ninth. I have a correction to make on the 3:07:06.720 --> 3:07:09.360 original copy of this episode. I made an error in 3:07:09.520 --> 3:07:12.880 saying Greta Thunberg was aboard a humanitarian aid ship off 3:07:12.959 --> 3:07:16.520 the coast of Italy that was airstriked by Israel. The 3:07:16.640 --> 3:07:20.119 ship was indeed attacked, but she was not on that ship. 3:07:20.240 --> 3:07:22.480 I watched a video of her discussing the attack and 3:07:22.560 --> 3:07:25.279 it sounded first person, and then we recorded shortly thereafter. 3:07:25.760 --> 3:07:27.840 But now it's clear she was not on the ship 3:07:28.160 --> 3:07:32.240 but instead planned to board later that day on the 3:07:32.360 --> 3:07:35.000 way to Gaza as a part of the humanitarian aid 3:07:35.160 --> 3:07:39.720 organization the Freedom Flotilla Coalition. More than a dozen other 3:07:39.840 --> 3:07:42.160 aid workers were aboard the vessel when it was hit, 3:07:42.800 --> 3:07:46.600 and this relates to the larger humanitarian aid crisis in Gaza. 3:07:47.120 --> 3:07:50.160 Now back to the episode. The past two months, Israel 3:07:50.200 --> 3:07:54.000 has forcibly cut off all food, water, machines, supplies, and 3:07:54.360 --> 3:07:58.520 other humanitarian aid to Gaza, starving the Palestinian people as 3:07:58.560 --> 3:08:01.680 not now who continues to reject see fire deals. Reports 3:08:01.720 --> 3:08:03.440 from the UN say that Gaza will run out of 3:08:03.480 --> 3:08:04.400 food in days. 3:08:05.040 --> 3:08:07.680 Yep, I mean it looks like a starvation genocide. I 3:08:07.680 --> 3:08:10.000 don't know how else to phrase this. There's really nothing else. 3:08:10.640 --> 3:08:13.440 This isn't the time to mince words. Like every piece 3:08:13.480 --> 3:08:16.560 of evidence suggests this is a starvation genocide being carried out. 3:08:16.600 --> 3:08:19.480 But they're trying to starve this population to death or 3:08:19.600 --> 3:08:22.760 until they all leave, which is the same. Genocide does 3:08:22.840 --> 3:08:25.160 not necessarily mean you kill everyone. It is the forced 3:08:25.240 --> 3:08:27.600 killing and or displacement of a population. 3:08:28.000 --> 3:08:28.200 Yeah. 3:08:28.640 --> 3:08:31.840 Israel says that the Palestinians still have food for a 3:08:31.879 --> 3:08:35.160 few months, but the Yuan and other eight organizations say 3:08:35.240 --> 3:08:39.440 that is not true now. Last Sunday night, Israel's Security 3:08:39.520 --> 3:08:43.879 Cabinet approved a plan to reoccupy and hold the Gaza 3:08:43.959 --> 3:08:46.800 Strip if a new Seaspire deal isn't reached by May fifteenth, 3:08:47.440 --> 3:08:51.600 while Yahoo and Israel officials continue to undermine negotiations for 3:08:51.760 --> 3:08:57.240 a permanent ceasefire. This plan is called Gideon's Chariots. 3:08:57.200 --> 3:08:58.560 Jesus fucking Christ. 3:08:58.959 --> 3:09:01.000 The plan is for the idea to invade with four 3:09:01.040 --> 3:09:06.400 to five armored infantry divisions, mobilizing uproots of seventy thousand reservists, 3:09:06.879 --> 3:09:11.360 which would gradually occupy and secure basically the entire Gaza Strip. 3:09:11.720 --> 3:09:16.400 According to Israel's Finance Minister, this IDF occupation would be permanent, 3:09:16.800 --> 3:09:20.320 not even pulling back with the release of any remaining hostages, 3:09:20.560 --> 3:09:23.320 though other Israeli officials disagree on this and say this 3:09:23.400 --> 3:09:27.000 would be a temporary occupation. Pretty hard to take their 3:09:27.080 --> 3:09:31.920 word on that all remaining buildings would be destroyed, flattening 3:09:31.959 --> 3:09:34.200 the entirety of the strip, just like Rafa and the 3:09:34.320 --> 3:09:38.480 northern side. Amir Aviv, the founder of the Israel Defense 3:09:38.600 --> 3:09:41.440 and Security Forum think tank and a former deputy commander 3:09:41.520 --> 3:09:44.800 of the Israeli forces, say, quote, this is the only 3:09:44.920 --> 3:09:49.240 way to eradicate Hamas militarily and governmentally is to take 3:09:49.360 --> 3:09:53.560 over Gaza and to conquer the area and destroy them unquote. 3:09:54.360 --> 3:09:58.640 There's some added complications with like legally like occupying Gaza 3:09:58.840 --> 3:10:02.879 under the Geneva Convention, a formal occupation would require Israel 3:10:02.959 --> 3:10:06.080 to have the capacity to operate as an official government 3:10:06.160 --> 3:10:10.280 authority in this region. Now there's no indication that Israel 3:10:10.280 --> 3:10:12.880 will follow the Genema Convention as they haven't. 3:10:13.040 --> 3:10:15.160 Yeah, it's Israel. They never have given a shit. 3:10:15.520 --> 3:10:17.400 Yeah, I don't see why we'd expect that. 3:10:18.160 --> 3:10:21.720 But if they do occupy, they would be more like 3:10:21.920 --> 3:10:25.119 liable for the well being of the Palestinians that would 3:10:25.160 --> 3:10:28.040 be inside the territory, and the IDEF doesn't have a 3:10:28.040 --> 3:10:31.480 plan for this. They are planning to forcedly relocate around 3:10:31.560 --> 3:10:36.199 two million Palestinians to a single quote unquote humanitarian area 3:10:36.959 --> 3:10:40.480 which is positioned in the rubble of Ratha, where secure 3:10:40.560 --> 3:10:44.760 quote unquote compounds are being constructed to distribute food and 3:10:44.760 --> 3:10:48.440 supplies to Palestinians who are screened and approved as not 3:10:48.680 --> 3:10:53.600 being members of Hamas. This area will be managed by 3:10:53.720 --> 3:10:57.920 private US companies and a quote unquote new international foundation 3:10:58.640 --> 3:11:02.720 which works with Israel and the United States. Established aid 3:11:02.840 --> 3:11:05.040 organizations in the un announced that they would not be 3:11:05.080 --> 3:11:08.480 participating in running these quote unquote compounds, calling this a 3:11:08.560 --> 3:11:11.680 tactic to give the Israeli military even more power over 3:11:11.800 --> 3:11:15.200 how aid is distributed, saying in a statement, quote it 3:11:15.320 --> 3:11:20.600 contravenes fundamental humanitarian principles and appears designed to reinforce control 3:11:20.680 --> 3:11:23.560 over life sustaining items as a pressure tactic as a 3:11:23.600 --> 3:11:27.000 part of a military strategy. It is dangerous driving civilians 3:11:27.040 --> 3:11:31.120 into militarized zones to collect rations threatening lives, including those 3:11:31.160 --> 3:11:35.360 of humanitarian workers, while further entrenching forced displacement. 3:11:35.640 --> 3:11:38.520 On quotep Yeah, an. 3:11:38.520 --> 3:11:41.160 Israeli official said the only alternative to being moved to 3:11:41.280 --> 3:11:44.960 this quote unquote humanitarian area would be to leave Gaza 3:11:45.040 --> 3:11:49.320 quote unquote voluntarily to other countries, citing Trump's plan to 3:11:49.400 --> 3:11:55.240 resettle displaced Palestinians. Robert James, Mia, do you wanna comment 3:11:55.320 --> 3:11:55.560 on this? 3:11:56.600 --> 3:11:59.520 It's not much to say, is that, Like it's they're 3:11:59.640 --> 3:12:01.960 just saying the thing that they've been going for for 3:12:02.000 --> 3:12:04.120 a while now, which is the removal of ale panistin 3:12:04.200 --> 3:12:06.720 Gut people from the Goddess trip, either in body bags 3:12:06.840 --> 3:12:08.119 or to live somewhere else. 3:12:08.160 --> 3:12:10.359 I guess it's just straight up a genocide, Like they're 3:12:10.400 --> 3:12:11.480 describing a genocide. 3:12:11.680 --> 3:12:14.760 Yeah, there's no doubting it. Like I don't even know, Like, 3:12:15.120 --> 3:12:16.320 is what is there to say? 3:12:17.200 --> 3:12:17.360 Right? 3:12:18.280 --> 3:12:21.640 Like at this point, I almost think other than obviously 3:12:21.760 --> 3:12:24.480 documenting what's happening is important, the only important thing to 3:12:24.600 --> 3:12:26.600 try to talk of it is like how can this 3:12:26.800 --> 3:12:31.240 be stopped? And or how can a degree of like 3:12:31.440 --> 3:12:35.360 what does justice look like at some point down the line? 3:12:35.560 --> 3:12:39.400 What should be done? You know, Like these are questions 3:12:39.480 --> 3:12:42.560 to ask, but like to just like I don't know 3:12:42.600 --> 3:12:44.800 what to keep saying other than like, yep, they're trying 3:12:44.879 --> 3:12:46.320 to wipe out Gaza like. 3:12:47.440 --> 3:12:50.600 Well, and specifically the use of these like quote unquote compounds, 3:12:51.080 --> 3:12:54.879 You're like rounding up and keeping people inside one secure. 3:12:54.480 --> 3:12:56.360 Area, concentrating them in camps. 3:12:56.760 --> 3:12:58.880 Like come on, guys, you're just setting up camps for 3:12:58.959 --> 3:13:01.440 Palestinians on the south side of the Strip and like 3:13:01.520 --> 3:13:04.360 that's all that this is as they reoccupy and hold 3:13:04.400 --> 3:13:09.560 the entirety to quote unquote eliminate Hamas. So this Monday, 3:13:09.600 --> 3:13:11.960 Trump's going to start a three day visit to Saudi Arabia, 3:13:12.120 --> 3:13:15.120 Cutter and the United Arab Emirates. This is while the 3:13:15.240 --> 3:13:18.400 US government has taken a backfoot on Gaza negotiations while 3:13:18.640 --> 3:13:21.360 still backing up net Yahoo and any actions taken by 3:13:21.360 --> 3:13:25.959 the Israeli military. Yeah, so we will know more about 3:13:26.360 --> 3:13:29.920 what Israel is actually going to do immediately in the 3:13:30.000 --> 3:13:32.920 region in like a week's time, though. It looks like 3:13:32.959 --> 3:13:34.960 they are going to be going forward with this May 3:13:35.040 --> 3:13:36.680 fifteenth reoccupation plan. 3:13:37.440 --> 3:13:37.680 Cool. 3:13:38.280 --> 3:13:43.480 Well, yeah, so more good news from me. Immigration update. 3:13:43.879 --> 3:13:46.880 The New York Times today on the this is Wednesday, 3:13:46.920 --> 3:13:51.080 the seventh is reporting that the Trump administration is as 3:13:51.120 --> 3:13:53.840 soon as today. I checked this before recording. The plan 3:13:53.920 --> 3:13:59.040 hadn't taken off planning to ship people to migrants to Libya. 3:14:00.040 --> 3:14:03.160 Nationalities of people being renditioned there are not clear, but 3:14:03.280 --> 3:14:05.840 my guess would be that these are third party nationals 3:14:05.920 --> 3:14:08.880 that the US can't deport to their home countries like 3:14:09.000 --> 3:14:12.280 they previously deported these people to Panama and to Elsabadov. 3:14:12.760 --> 3:14:16.600 If you're not familiar with migrant detention in Libya, conditions 3:14:16.760 --> 3:14:22.320 are horrific, like among the worst things that can happen 3:14:22.440 --> 3:14:25.560 to people. The situation in Libya is currently the country 3:14:25.640 --> 3:14:29.200 is divided between the Tripoli government, which is recognized by 3:14:29.200 --> 3:14:31.640 the UN and which the US has formal government government 3:14:31.680 --> 3:14:36.160 relationships with, and Hafta's government based in Benghazi, which the 3:14:36.280 --> 3:14:42.480 Trump regime has associated with. Before. We have covered conditions 3:14:42.560 --> 3:14:45.280 in Libyan migrant detention camps before, which I'll check in 3:14:45.320 --> 3:14:49.200 the show notes. And we also talked about the dangers 3:14:49.200 --> 3:14:51.280 faced by people leaving Libya towards the EU in a 3:14:51.320 --> 3:14:55.280 different episode which I also list but to recap. Reports 3:14:55.360 --> 3:15:02.200 document starvation, rape, murder, slavery, and organ harves occurring in Libya. 3:15:02.760 --> 3:15:05.520 Mass graves, including one last year that was found with 3:15:05.600 --> 3:15:09.560 sixty five bodies in it, are not uncommon. To quote 3:15:09.600 --> 3:15:12.960 from David Yambio. David Yambio is someone who was He 3:15:13.240 --> 3:15:15.600 was sold and then forced to fight in a militia 3:15:15.680 --> 3:15:19.080 in Libya, and I think I believe he escaped and 3:15:19.200 --> 3:15:21.520 he is now in I think he's in Italy, but 3:15:21.600 --> 3:15:24.480 he's ready to be outspoken on this stuff. The slave 3:15:24.560 --> 3:15:27.160 trade is alive and thriving in Libya. It thrives in 3:15:27.240 --> 3:15:30.200 the silence of nations, in the shadows of complicit systems, 3:15:30.560 --> 3:15:34.000 and then the unchecked racism that dehumanizes black lives in 3:15:34.800 --> 3:15:40.000 other Immigration News. The government's attempt to delay Rumsa Oztek's 3:15:40.040 --> 3:15:44.120 return to Vermont was rejected by the second Circuit, so 3:15:44.280 --> 3:15:46.760 that means that she will have to be returned to 3:15:47.520 --> 3:15:50.080 She was arrested in Massachusetts, if you remember, for writing 3:15:50.120 --> 3:15:50.560 an op. 3:15:50.520 --> 3:15:51.680 Ed at tux University. 3:15:51.800 --> 3:15:52.000 Yeah. 3:15:52.320 --> 3:15:55.520 Yeah, moved across state borders to Vermont and from their 3:15:55.600 --> 3:15:59.720 Central Louisiana. So the habeas case was transferred to Vermont 3:15:59.840 --> 3:16:03.920 and has a rule that the government cannotter laboring her 3:16:04.000 --> 3:16:09.320 back there anymore. Another flight containing eighty one migrants left 3:16:09.480 --> 3:16:13.320 Panama yesterday at the United States expense. This is a 3:16:13.360 --> 3:16:16.560 continuation of a plan that the Biaen administration installed in 3:16:16.680 --> 3:16:20.000 summer last year, and the Trump administration has continued whereby 3:16:20.040 --> 3:16:25.440 the US funds deportations from Panama. Meanwhile, Tokyo Weekender in 3:16:25.560 --> 3:16:28.880 Japan is reporting that the United States is asking people 3:16:29.040 --> 3:16:33.280 to show five years of social media history in order 3:16:33.320 --> 3:16:36.640 to obtain a student visa, just to like put that 3:16:36.720 --> 3:16:39.080 in perspective for people. So you have to eventher those 3:16:39.080 --> 3:16:42.280 accounts are deleted or no longer used. You have to 3:16:42.360 --> 3:16:45.560 declare them all on your form. If you're applying for 3:16:45.600 --> 3:16:47.720 a student visa and you're at the younger end of 3:16:47.800 --> 3:16:50.920 a traditional aged undergraduate. You could have to list every 3:16:50.959 --> 3:16:54.200 social media account you've had since you were twelve on 3:16:54.560 --> 3:16:57.920 this form. And the US has required disclosure for a while, 3:16:58.000 --> 3:16:59.840 but like, it hasn't been a practical thing. I have 3:17:00.240 --> 3:17:03.400 really ever heard from any one of anybody's visa being 3:17:03.480 --> 3:17:07.000 denied or asylum being denied based on social media posting. 3:17:07.800 --> 3:17:10.320 But this is now something that that they are asking 3:17:10.400 --> 3:17:14.120 people to disclose well and requiring, not like requiring it, 3:17:14.320 --> 3:17:16.080 not asking it is it is. It is going to 3:17:16.120 --> 3:17:19.119 be like an enforced requirement in a way that before 3:17:19.320 --> 3:17:22.800 it really hasn't been. It's the term that the law 3:17:22.879 --> 3:17:25.480 firm used in this piece is like in the past, 3:17:25.560 --> 3:17:28.640 this has been mostly quote unquote negligible. Yeah, and now 3:17:28.720 --> 3:17:32.280 this is something that the Department of State is really 3:17:32.400 --> 3:17:37.720 being adamant about, yeah, which will massively delay the time 3:17:37.800 --> 3:17:40.560 to process visa applications on top of everything else. 3:17:40.800 --> 3:17:43.720 People in Japan have compared this to two policies similar 3:17:43.800 --> 3:17:46.080 to that of China's Cultural Revolution. 3:17:47.400 --> 3:17:47.600 Yeah. 3:17:48.160 --> 3:17:50.800 I mean I've been to other countries to be clear, 3:17:50.879 --> 3:17:52.840 where they open up your social media and look at 3:17:52.879 --> 3:17:54.640 it when when you're entering. But this is not a 3:17:54.680 --> 3:17:58.560 thing that anyone has ever associated with the United States. Finally, 3:17:58.800 --> 3:18:02.040 I guess the Freedom of Press Foundation got some documentary 3:18:02.040 --> 3:18:05.080 reliefs under a federal Freedom of Information Act. The outline 3:18:05.120 --> 3:18:08.600 that the intelligence community did not believe that the Madua 3:18:08.680 --> 3:18:11.440 regime was controlling tender Agua, which was one of the 3:18:11.480 --> 3:18:15.840 claims that Trump administration has made in its invocation of 3:18:15.959 --> 3:18:19.480 the Alien Enemies Act. Right, So it's just kind of 3:18:19.879 --> 3:18:21.920 I think most people who pay any attention to the 3:18:21.959 --> 3:18:25.560 situation weren't really buying that, but it's showing that this 3:18:25.720 --> 3:18:30.160 was documented by the US intelligence community as well. So, yeah, 3:18:30.200 --> 3:18:34.480 any anything to add that the Libya stuff is bleak, 3:18:34.760 --> 3:18:37.640 Like it hasn't got much coverage in the US. We 3:18:37.800 --> 3:18:40.680 have covered it before, but the European Union is already 3:18:40.760 --> 3:18:43.280 complicit in the terrible treatment of migrants in Libya, and 3:18:43.520 --> 3:18:45.920 oh yeah, and for ages it has happened, for ages 3:18:46.000 --> 3:18:48.400 like the so called Libyan Coast Guard of bringing people 3:18:48.440 --> 3:18:51.400 back to Libya and like literally selling them from shelters 3:18:51.480 --> 3:18:55.680 to human traffickers. I mean, we've more or less kind 3:18:55.680 --> 3:18:59.520 of lined up behind some of the worst places on Earth, 3:18:59.840 --> 3:19:03.440 like in terms of migrant detention. Right with SECOT and this. 3:19:03.879 --> 3:19:07.600 Yeah, more and more families are figuring out that like 3:19:07.640 --> 3:19:10.280 their family members have been sent to SCOT, like people 3:19:10.320 --> 3:19:12.440 who have not been named an official documentation. They've been 3:19:12.440 --> 3:19:15.520 able to like search through these propaganda videos and identify 3:19:15.680 --> 3:19:19.680 more people. So they're launching court cases to have them returned, 3:19:20.680 --> 3:19:24.040 people who very clearly have had no gang affiliation. Not 3:19:24.160 --> 3:19:26.280 that that should even matter when you're sending people to 3:19:26.360 --> 3:19:27.199 the forever prison. 3:19:28.040 --> 3:19:28.240 Yeah. 3:19:28.879 --> 3:19:31.000 I saw one guy we had a Donald Duck tattoo, 3:19:31.080 --> 3:19:34.760 and that was I guess the decisive claim there. Right, 3:19:34.800 --> 3:19:38.320 there's a form that ICE agents fill out and there's 3:19:38.320 --> 3:19:39.879 a number of points they after a mass. I believe 3:19:39.879 --> 3:19:41.520 it's three points, and one of the things that can 3:19:41.560 --> 3:19:43.960 allow you to a mass three points. It's like, I 3:19:44.040 --> 3:19:47.600 think two points come from a tattoo which they decide 3:19:47.640 --> 3:19:49.320 to be gang affiliated and. 3:19:49.360 --> 3:19:52.360 No, and again, like they seem to just be saying 3:19:52.440 --> 3:19:57.119 tattoos period, right, Like anything is trindagua, right, yeah. 3:19:57.080 --> 3:19:59.440 Right, people who have like soccer tattoos, people who have 3:20:00.040 --> 3:20:02.080 of my mom and dad tattoos, It doesn't matter. 3:20:02.240 --> 3:20:04.600 There's an autism awareness tattoo. 3:20:04.800 --> 3:20:08.040 Yeah, so some guy had an autism awareness Yeah, that 3:20:08.160 --> 3:20:13.279 one like haunts me because I have met young neurodivergent 3:20:13.320 --> 3:20:15.120 people and their families who are bringing them to the 3:20:15.280 --> 3:20:17.920 US to get what they thought was a better standard 3:20:17.959 --> 3:20:20.680 of care, right to allow their children to progress and 3:20:21.720 --> 3:20:25.880 have a beautiful life. Yeah, man, that one, like, like, 3:20:25.959 --> 3:20:28.600 I honestly really struggled with that. I have spent lots 3:20:28.640 --> 3:20:31.400 and lots and lots of time with Venezuelan migrants and 3:20:31.560 --> 3:20:35.680 like they're my friends. And that particular one, like people 3:20:35.720 --> 3:20:41.039 whose children have any need for medical care right are 3:20:41.080 --> 3:20:43.920 overrepresented the migrant population because they just can't access it 3:20:44.000 --> 3:20:47.520 there and so they upend their whole lives and carry 3:20:47.560 --> 3:20:49.640 their children across the continent to give them a chance 3:20:49.920 --> 3:20:52.040 had a better life And like that, that one is 3:20:52.120 --> 3:20:55.640 particularly hard for me to Winness, I did just want 3:20:55.680 --> 3:20:59.240 to mention on the topic of asylum. I've heard from 3:20:59.320 --> 3:21:02.920 so many migrants stuck in Mexico who are having a 3:21:03.120 --> 3:21:08.760 god awful time to include you know, robbery, kidnapping, sexual violence, 3:21:10.000 --> 3:21:12.680 all of the things that we know can happen to 3:21:12.760 --> 3:21:15.480 migrants on the migrant trail because they have no pathway 3:21:15.520 --> 3:21:17.480 to get to the US. They're now just stuck there 3:21:17.640 --> 3:21:22.000 right Mexico continues to take migrants and move them back 3:21:22.120 --> 3:21:24.800 south if it catches them near the United States border, 3:21:25.240 --> 3:21:27.760 even if some of them move up as far as 3:21:27.840 --> 3:21:30.520 Mexico City, right because they have access to services there, 3:21:30.640 --> 3:21:35.440 and then again sent back south to places where migrants 3:21:35.480 --> 3:21:38.520 have routinely been murdered. So I know, we're focusing a 3:21:38.560 --> 3:21:41.240 lot on migrants being kicked out of the US deported. 3:21:41.400 --> 3:21:45.160 Renditioned conditions for migrants who aspired to come to the 3:21:45.280 --> 3:21:47.880 United States who took great risks to be Americans and 3:21:47.959 --> 3:21:50.160 are stuck in Mexico are also dire. 3:21:51.200 --> 3:21:53.600 All right, Let's go and break and then come back 3:21:53.720 --> 3:21:55.520 for a few more updates before we close out. 3:21:56.040 --> 3:22:10.720 Yeah, we're back. And wait a second, is that is 3:22:10.800 --> 3:22:12.520 that the tariff song? 3:22:14.040 --> 3:22:27.560 Locking jas Rocking Jaspar Sorry, Locking, Locking jas Rocking Jazz Bob? 3:22:28.920 --> 3:22:30.280 All right, guys, I actually don't know. Do we have 3:22:30.320 --> 3:22:31.560 anything to say about tariffs this week? 3:22:31.600 --> 3:22:31.760 Yeah? 3:22:31.760 --> 3:22:33.760 We actually actually do us some on tariffs, So okay. 3:22:33.600 --> 3:22:35.879 All right, very good. I'm just we gotta get all 3:22:35.920 --> 3:22:37.640 of our use out of that song, because again, we 3:22:37.760 --> 3:22:40.360 really do. We really had to suspend the whole team's 3:22:40.400 --> 3:22:43.520 healthcare to pay for it. It was monstrously expensive. 3:22:44.040 --> 3:22:45.480 The full cut of that. 3:22:45.680 --> 3:22:49.120 Song is seventeen and a half hours. We actually brought 3:22:49.280 --> 3:22:52.240 in the remaining members of Fleetwood Mac as well as 3:22:52.280 --> 3:22:53.400 several Rolling Stones. 3:22:53.560 --> 3:22:53.720 It was. 3:22:53.879 --> 3:22:55.400 It just just disastrous. 3:22:57.440 --> 3:23:00.560 So far attempts to resurrect Joe Strama failed that we 3:23:00.800 --> 3:23:01.720 spent million. 3:23:01.800 --> 3:23:05.320 We only used the clip with our friend the Narcissist Cookbook. 3:23:05.360 --> 3:23:08.720 But yeah, there there is a twenty six minute drum 3:23:08.879 --> 3:23:11.879 solo with the guy from Rush Gedty Lee. He's still alive, right, 3:23:12.040 --> 3:23:14.760 was it, Getty Lee? Yeah, yeah, he's still alive. The 3:23:14.879 --> 3:23:16.200 joke works. The joke works. 3:23:16.480 --> 3:23:17.680 Not cheap, not cheap. 3:23:18.520 --> 3:23:18.680 Yeah. 3:23:18.760 --> 3:23:21.600 Yeah, it's much like the dire Wolf thing. We've put 3:23:21.680 --> 3:23:23.680 Joe's drummer's DNA into another court. 3:23:23.760 --> 3:23:25.600 Yeah, man, and does he worried? 3:23:25.600 --> 3:23:27.240 We've released him into the wild and we're going to 3:23:27.280 --> 3:23:28.000 see how he developed. 3:23:28.040 --> 3:23:30.199 So far, he just has a lot of blood clots. 3:23:30.280 --> 3:23:31.640 But we have we're homefielder on. 3:23:31.680 --> 3:23:33.200 The case though. He's training him up. 3:23:33.280 --> 3:23:35.840 Well, we'll get him. We'll get him on here, all right. 3:23:36.360 --> 3:23:38.039 Yeah yeah, parraffs good bad? 3:23:38.160 --> 3:23:38.720 What do you think? 3:23:40.520 --> 3:23:43.400 Okay, So all right, let's let let's let's let's actually 3:23:43.400 --> 3:23:44.920 do this shit. So is it One of the things 3:23:44.959 --> 3:23:46.840 that we've been talking about along on this show is 3:23:46.920 --> 3:23:50.199 the Deminimus exemption, which was this exemption that formerly allowed 3:23:50.240 --> 3:23:54.080 you was particularly used in trade with China, where you could, 3:23:54.879 --> 3:23:57.400 like if you were setting a package that was under 3:23:57.440 --> 3:23:59.040 like seven hundred dollars, you didn't have to like it 3:23:59.080 --> 3:24:00.840 didn't have to like go through in the way that 3:24:00.879 --> 3:24:03.039 you would normally would have to do it. That shit's gone. 3:24:03.160 --> 3:24:06.640 That ended on Friday of last week. This has already 3:24:06.680 --> 3:24:09.640 skyrocketed the cost of doing imports of shit from China 3:24:09.720 --> 3:24:12.040 because huge amounts of stuff being shipped from China was 3:24:12.920 --> 3:24:15.440 you know, like reliant on shipping it in packages that 3:24:15.520 --> 3:24:19.440 were exactly six hundred and ninety nine dollars, and you know, 3:24:19.560 --> 3:24:22.560 this has like like Temu's entire business model has changed 3:24:22.640 --> 3:24:24.760 basically over night, where like they're no longer shipping stuff 3:24:24.760 --> 3:24:28.599 in from China, They're only selling stuff from like American distributors. 3:24:29.440 --> 3:24:32.800 This is going to have catastrophic effects on so many 3:24:32.840 --> 3:24:35.000 supply chains you've never even thought of in the weeks 3:24:35.040 --> 3:24:37.040 to come, because again, there are so many different like 3:24:37.920 --> 3:24:42.080 tiny screws and shit, like just like really really small 3:24:42.160 --> 3:24:43.720 items that you used to be able to get from 3:24:43.800 --> 3:24:47.120 China for like fucking five dollars for like one hundred 3:24:47.120 --> 3:24:51.960 of them that now have like unbelievable tariff rates on 3:24:52.000 --> 3:24:53.959 them and have to go through a really, really convoluted 3:24:53.959 --> 3:24:57.000 customs process. There have already been sort of massive supply 3:24:57.080 --> 3:24:59.160 chain disruptions in a large number of industries. It's going 3:24:59.200 --> 3:25:02.320 to continue to get where Sophie was talking about metal 3:25:02.320 --> 3:25:04.840 imports hitting the construction industry, because there's you know, there's 3:25:04.879 --> 3:25:06.640 terraffs on a bunch of different kinds of metal, as 3:25:06.680 --> 3:25:08.400 we've covered on the show, aluminum. 3:25:08.520 --> 3:25:10.360 God knows what's gonna happen to diet coke. 3:25:11.000 --> 3:25:13.080 We'll put it in lead like God intended. 3:25:13.240 --> 3:25:16.520 Maybe that'll finally change Trump's outlook is when his diet 3:25:16.640 --> 3:25:17.320 coat stop. 3:25:19.200 --> 3:25:19.360 Yeah. 3:25:19.440 --> 3:25:21.720 Yeah, Trump and Musk both become inoperable. 3:25:21.800 --> 3:25:24.720 But you know, Garrison, we will know when that's hit 3:25:24.800 --> 3:25:27.640 when the missiles are in the air, like oh shitty 3:25:27.760 --> 3:25:28.320 ran out. 3:25:29.120 --> 3:25:32.600 Federal occupation of the Coca Cola headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. 3:25:32.840 --> 3:25:37.000 Yeah, so you know, and this is also like this, 3:25:37.240 --> 3:25:40.840 this is going to have a profound impact on Chinese economy. Again, 3:25:40.879 --> 3:25:43.280 we're still in sort of the waiting room until sort 3:25:43.280 --> 3:25:45.640 of Midsummer when all of the rest of the tariffs 3:25:45.640 --> 3:25:47.080 that were supposed to go into effect go back into 3:25:47.080 --> 3:25:48.879 effect and literally everything collapses. 3:25:49.440 --> 3:25:52.120 You're probably three to five weeks out from really starting 3:25:52.160 --> 3:25:54.240 to see it hit hard in like the stuff you 3:25:54.360 --> 3:25:56.400 buy on a day to day basis. Right, People who 3:25:56.440 --> 3:25:59.280 are doing stuff like remodeling houses or building houses are 3:25:59.280 --> 3:25:59.959 starting to notice. 3:26:00.120 --> 3:26:00.280 Now. 3:26:00.800 --> 3:26:04.480 Yeah, I think people car prepare businesses and one of 3:26:04.520 --> 3:26:06.600 people have to order parts. That is starting to hit. 3:26:07.200 --> 3:26:09.879 But your grocery store, that's really going to be most 3:26:09.959 --> 3:26:12.520 noticeable somewhere between three and five weeks from now. Maybe yeah, 3:26:12.560 --> 3:26:14.640 maybe sooner, probably not much longer. 3:26:15.080 --> 3:26:16.840 Well, and and other things are about to get sniffy 3:26:16.879 --> 3:26:18.800 and the worse. So this has been talked about for 3:26:18.840 --> 3:26:20.640 a long time. The buzz right now is that they're 3:26:20.640 --> 3:26:23.040 happening soon. I don't know exactly what that means, but 3:26:24.120 --> 3:26:25.840 there has been for a long long time. Trump has 3:26:25.879 --> 3:26:30.240 been talking about doing tariffs on pharma, so congratulations, get 3:26:30.280 --> 3:26:33.000 excited for all of your medication costing a lot more money. 3:26:33.840 --> 3:26:36.600 He also put into place of one hundred percent terrafund 3:26:37.080 --> 3:26:37.959 foreign movies. 3:26:38.240 --> 3:26:41.480 Well, we'll see, yes, yeah, But then he walked that back, 3:26:41.520 --> 3:26:44.600 he had a conversation with John Voight and announced, Yeah, 3:26:44.640 --> 3:26:48.520 they're getting to that hundred percent tariff on all movies. 3:26:49.200 --> 3:26:51.920 Yeah, not made in the US. No one knows what 3:26:52.040 --> 3:26:53.600 that means. How can you do that? 3:26:53.879 --> 3:26:56.240 What taraffun a movie? What are we talking about? 3:26:56.720 --> 3:26:59.400 It's literally it's literally just like like he's doing tariffs 3:26:59.400 --> 3:27:00.560 in the way that like the is that but the 3:27:00.640 --> 3:27:02.400 guy for the Wolf of Wall Street is like what 3:27:02.560 --> 3:27:04.360 guy walks out of the room and goes short. Everything 3:27:04.440 --> 3:27:06.800 is ever touched like it's like that thing. Yeah, like 3:27:06.879 --> 3:27:10.360 he's gonna be terriffing like fucking ocean currents in two months. 3:27:10.879 --> 3:27:13.920 The responses to it have been have been so funny 3:27:13.920 --> 3:27:17.000 because Gavin Newsome, arch dipshit of the Democratic Party, was 3:27:17.040 --> 3:27:20.080 immediately like, we love the idea of working with our 3:27:20.160 --> 3:27:23.120 president to keep the film jobs in California. 3:27:23.320 --> 3:27:23.480 You know. 3:27:24.080 --> 3:27:27.000 Meanwhile, Trump immediately was like, well, maybe we won't do that. 3:27:27.240 --> 3:27:30.480 I think because they're still at the very head of 3:27:30.560 --> 3:27:34.680 the studio system. Some scary old mob type dudes, right, 3:27:34.800 --> 3:27:37.240 and I think a few of them also Tom Cruise 3:27:37.360 --> 3:27:41.080 is terraf Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise like sat down, listen, Donald, 3:27:44.200 --> 3:27:46.840 you know, no one's heard from David Mskovich's wife in 3:27:46.920 --> 3:27:48.760 a long ass time, and they don't have to hear 3:27:48.840 --> 3:27:51.040 from you either, Like you don't want to fuck with me? 3:27:52.080 --> 3:27:56.600 Yeah, Trump believes he actually is the mission impossible guy. 3:27:56.600 --> 3:28:00.200 And you could given some you could give he he 3:28:00.320 --> 3:28:04.880 convinced him. Yeah, someone convinced him. To Nero's is, like, 3:28:04.959 --> 3:28:08.720 didn't he reopen Alcatraz? Off to the Alcatraz film? Add 3:28:08.840 --> 3:28:09.039 on the. 3:28:10.959 --> 3:28:13.240 Yes, but it was the it was the Clint Eastwood one, 3:28:13.320 --> 3:28:16.880 and not the much better Alcatraz film The Rock starring 3:28:17.160 --> 3:28:22.000 Sean Connery and Nicholas Cage a banger ages perfectly watch it. 3:28:22.160 --> 3:28:25.039 Everyone watch it tonight. Fu reading any more news? 3:28:25.879 --> 3:28:28.640 Okay, there's more news though unfortunately Yeah, well okay, there 3:28:28.680 --> 3:28:30.440 there's one funny thing, and there's a like the actual 3:28:30.480 --> 3:28:31.960 news here is part of what's going on here is 3:28:32.000 --> 3:28:34.840 just everything is just chaos. And this is something that like, 3:28:35.040 --> 3:28:36.640 I mean, I've had this conversation with a bunch of 3:28:36.640 --> 3:28:38.720 people who work in shipping of the last couple of weeks. 3:28:38.840 --> 3:28:41.840 Is that like it's just chaos, right, Like everything is 3:28:41.959 --> 3:28:44.039 changing all the fucking time, and this means every time 3:28:44.080 --> 3:28:45.680 one of these things changes, a bunch of like the 3:28:45.720 --> 3:28:48.480 import codes and like stuff just changes on the level 3:28:48.640 --> 3:28:52.560 of like the customs people, and like just like like 3:28:52.720 --> 3:28:55.120 literally the process of importing this stuff changes, and it's 3:28:55.240 --> 3:28:58.240 just a complete fucking disaster. People are getting laid off 3:28:58.360 --> 3:29:00.920 constantly too, so like every single part of the government 3:29:00.920 --> 3:29:02.720 that's supposed to be doing this suddenly has less people. 3:29:03.360 --> 3:29:05.680 It's an absolute rolling detachment for you will continue to 3:29:05.720 --> 3:29:08.520 get worse. There's also good evidents that like they know 3:29:08.680 --> 3:29:10.440 that it's gonna get worse. I'm gonna read this quote 3:29:10.480 --> 3:29:13.640 from USA today, Well, this is from Trump. I don't 3:29:13.680 --> 3:29:16.040 think a beautiful baby that's eleven years old needs to 3:29:16.080 --> 3:29:19.560 have thirty dollars, Trump told Meet the Press House Kirsten Welker. 3:29:19.760 --> 3:29:21.520 I think they can have three or four dolls because 3:29:21.520 --> 3:29:23.800 what we're doing with China is just unbelievable. We have 3:29:23.879 --> 3:29:26.280 a trade deficit of hundreds of billions of dollars for China. 3:29:26.920 --> 3:29:28.879 I'm just saying they don't need to have thirty dollars. 3:29:28.920 --> 3:29:30.560 They can have belief. They don't need to have one 3:29:30.640 --> 3:29:34.000 hundred and fifty pencils. They can have five five pencils. 3:29:34.040 --> 3:29:38.200 Everyone five pencils and three dollars. This Christmas. Imagine if 3:29:38.240 --> 3:29:40.040 Joe Biden annow, it's like, all right, we're gonna have 3:29:40.080 --> 3:29:41.520 to cut down on Christmas gifts this year. 3:29:41.600 --> 3:29:42.200 We can't do it. 3:29:43.800 --> 3:29:46.720 The Fox News would be like freaking the fuck out. 3:29:46.879 --> 3:29:50.720 We're like, Joe Biden's taking away your kid's Christmas and 3:29:50.959 --> 3:29:53.480 the pencils and yeah, who cares? 3:29:54.400 --> 3:29:56.160 Yeah, But I mean, like like the actual song thing 3:29:56.200 --> 3:29:58.200 here is like yeah, no, like these people understand that 3:29:58.280 --> 3:29:59.880 you're going to suffer. They don't give a shit. 3:30:00.240 --> 3:30:04.760 I want you to suffer their political project. Yeah, so 3:30:05.120 --> 3:30:08.680 you know, yeah, owning the Libs anyway? Is that all 3:30:08.720 --> 3:30:09.600 for tariff Talkbia? 3:30:10.280 --> 3:30:12.960 Yeah, that's all we got on. That's how we got 3:30:12.959 --> 3:30:13.520 on the tariffs. 3:30:13.959 --> 3:30:16.720 I am excited for for Trump to meet Ethan Hunt 3:30:16.840 --> 3:30:19.440 on his last mission, So there's still hope. 3:30:19.680 --> 3:30:20.000 All right. 3:30:20.360 --> 3:30:22.360 I have a few more updates before we close out here. 3:30:23.000 --> 3:30:27.120 One on the federal judge back and forth of last week. 3:30:27.240 --> 3:30:30.560 US District judge blocked the Trump Admin's efforts via executive 3:30:30.640 --> 3:30:33.680 order to require what they deem as proof of citizenship 3:30:33.760 --> 3:30:36.320 to register to vote. The judge stated that this case 3:30:36.400 --> 3:30:39.560 was about separation of powers and undue presidential interference in 3:30:39.640 --> 3:30:43.640 how states in Congress run and regulate elections, writing quote, 3:30:43.800 --> 3:30:47.400 our Constitution entrusts Congress and the States, not the President, 3:30:47.520 --> 3:30:50.760 with the authority to regulate federal elections. No statutory delegation 3:30:50.920 --> 3:30:53.280 of authority to the executive branch permits the president to 3:30:53.280 --> 3:30:57.920 short circuit Congress's deliberative process by executive order. Yeah, so 3:30:58.080 --> 3:31:01.000 we'll see how that develops. Foreign now, I'll also be 3:31:01.080 --> 3:31:03.640 doing an uphit on the Save Act as it makes 3:31:03.640 --> 3:31:06.520 its way through Congress as well, for those interested another 3:31:06.720 --> 3:31:08.080 kind of voting suppression bill. 3:31:08.360 --> 3:31:09.279 It's getting a push. 3:31:09.160 --> 3:31:14.000 Through this Tuesday, the Supreme Court upheld the trans military ban, 3:31:14.120 --> 3:31:17.600 at least for now. It'll still process through appeals, but 3:31:17.680 --> 3:31:20.240 the Trump administration is now allowed to enforce the ban, 3:31:20.400 --> 3:31:23.440 which they previously couldn't because a lower court put the 3:31:23.680 --> 3:31:24.879 enforcement on hold. 3:31:25.640 --> 3:31:25.840 Yeah. 3:31:25.879 --> 3:31:28.480 So, I think the actual scariest part about that is 3:31:28.520 --> 3:31:30.920 if you read the if you read the language of 3:31:31.160 --> 3:31:33.200 what the court was talking about, they've been describing it 3:31:33.280 --> 3:31:36.160 as like someone who thinks that like they are a 3:31:36.200 --> 3:31:38.440 woman when they're actually a man. Like isn't someone who 3:31:38.440 --> 3:31:40.880 can perform at like the standards of like honor and 3:31:41.000 --> 3:31:43.280 whatever that like a soldier needs and This is I 3:31:43.320 --> 3:31:45.560 think a ramp up to the really really dangerous thing 3:31:45.600 --> 3:31:47.400 that is coming, which is their attempt to just straight 3:31:47.480 --> 3:31:49.040 up brand being trans as fraud. 3:31:49.480 --> 3:31:52.080 I mean, this is this is the Trump Admin's argument, correct, 3:31:52.200 --> 3:31:53.199 this is what they were writing. 3:31:53.520 --> 3:31:55.440 Yeah, yeah, this is the statement. 3:31:55.520 --> 3:31:58.720 I guess that the DoD is claiming that expressing a 3:31:58.800 --> 3:32:02.320 quote false gender idea entity divergent from an individual sex 3:32:02.440 --> 3:32:06.200 can't satisfy the rigorous standards necessarily for military service. And 3:32:06.320 --> 3:32:09.760 they specifically talk about a soldier's commitment to an honorable, truthful, 3:32:09.840 --> 3:32:14.080 and disciplined lifestyle, even in one's personal life, and they 3:32:14.200 --> 3:32:19.680 then go ahead to claim that being trans inherently contradicts that. 3:32:20.280 --> 3:32:23.640 That's the Trump admins argument, which is going to be 3:32:23.959 --> 3:32:27.240 like used to undermine transmitter rights in the future, possibly 3:32:27.280 --> 3:32:28.200 threatening Title nine. 3:32:28.440 --> 3:32:28.640 Yeah. 3:32:29.560 --> 3:32:30.920 Yeah, it's very concerning. 3:32:31.680 --> 3:32:34.960 So the fact that they were able to, like at 3:32:35.040 --> 3:32:37.000 least at this point when this case in the Streame 3:32:37.040 --> 3:32:38.520 Court extremely worrying. 3:32:39.400 --> 3:32:39.600 Yeah. 3:32:40.680 --> 3:32:43.360 I will just say that if this impacts you someone 3:32:43.440 --> 3:32:46.600 you care about, so when you know you can reach 3:32:46.680 --> 3:32:49.320 out to us. Obviously there's a very little we can 3:32:49.360 --> 3:32:52.600 do about it, but we are here to listen to 3:32:52.800 --> 3:32:56.080 report the News and you can do that at cool Zone, 3:32:56.320 --> 3:33:01.760 tips at proton dot me tonly an encrypted email and 3:33:01.879 --> 3:33:04.280 to end if it comes from an encrypted email address 3:33:04.360 --> 3:33:06.400 to a encrypted email address. 3:33:06.800 --> 3:33:09.400 We are reading all of those. We may not respond 3:33:09.440 --> 3:33:11.039 to all of them, but we are taking note of them, 3:33:11.640 --> 3:33:15.280 and we'll report on stuff in the future. The last 3:33:15.320 --> 3:33:18.680 thing I do want to add is like a raid 3:33:18.800 --> 3:33:23.760 that happened last week in California. Homeland Security Investigations ICE 3:33:23.879 --> 3:33:26.560 and Secret Service right to the house in southern California 3:33:26.800 --> 3:33:30.000 looking for a man who months ago posted flyers around 3:33:30.040 --> 3:33:34.360 Los Angeles last January warning about ICE agents in the 3:33:34.480 --> 3:33:38.560 area with names, photos, and phone numbers reading in Spanish 3:33:38.680 --> 3:33:43.600 quote careful with these faces. The FEDS served a criminal 3:33:43.680 --> 3:33:46.640 search warrant on the home of this guy's parents, even 3:33:46.640 --> 3:33:50.000 though he moved to New York last March. At least 3:33:50.120 --> 3:33:53.640 fifteen armored vehicles pulled up to this upscale neighborhood with 3:33:53.800 --> 3:33:58.800 full militarized federal swat. They seized routers and hard drives. 3:33:59.080 --> 3:33:59.959 Yeah, that's good. 3:34:00.879 --> 3:34:02.560 Acting ICE director Todd Loins was on the scene for 3:34:02.640 --> 3:34:04.840 this operation. He told Fox News that he took it 3:34:04.959 --> 3:34:07.879 personally that someone would put a target on his agents 3:34:07.879 --> 3:34:09.760 in an effort to interfere with them and put them 3:34:09.800 --> 3:34:13.960 at risk, saying the person will be held accountable. What 3:34:14.040 --> 3:34:17.359 they're using here is probably likely US Code one nineteen 3:34:17.560 --> 3:34:22.599 Protection of Individuals performing certain duties. Whoever knowingly makes restricted 3:34:22.680 --> 3:34:26.000 personal information about a covered person or a member of 3:34:26.080 --> 3:34:28.760 the immediate family of that covered person publicly available with 3:34:28.800 --> 3:34:31.200 the intent to threaten and intimidate or incite the commission 3:34:31.280 --> 3:34:33.920 of a crime of violence against that covered person or 3:34:34.080 --> 3:34:37.840 a member of the immediate family. So this is likely 3:34:37.920 --> 3:34:41.440 what they're using, arguing that posting a photo on a 3:34:41.480 --> 3:34:45.600 flyer with the person's name and phone number is enough 3:34:45.680 --> 3:34:48.600 to threaten, intimidate, or facilitate the commission of a crime. 3:34:49.360 --> 3:34:51.400 Yeah, what constitutes covered persons? 3:34:51.440 --> 3:34:53.720 And it is that's a good question, James. 3:34:54.640 --> 3:34:56.320 That's a screenshot, right, so you can't click that. 3:34:56.600 --> 3:34:59.840 That is a screenshot and probably a question for a lawyer. 3:35:00.520 --> 3:35:03.039 But they are they are arguing that that the ICE 3:35:03.080 --> 3:35:05.279 agents like fall under this purview. 3:35:05.680 --> 3:35:10.199 Yes, the term covered person means a an individual designated 3:35:10.200 --> 3:35:13.560 to Session one fourteen B, a grand dura, petty jura witness, 3:35:13.680 --> 3:35:17.120 or rather officer of the court, an informal witness in 3:35:17.160 --> 3:35:21.040 a federal criminal investigation or prosecution, state or local officer 3:35:21.240 --> 3:35:24.879 or employee whose restricted personal information is made publicly available 3:35:24.920 --> 3:35:27.360 because of the participation in or assistant provided to a 3:35:27.440 --> 3:35:30.120 federal criminal investigation. So it's part C. 3:35:30.560 --> 3:35:33.520 Yeah, so that's that's what they're going to argue. The 3:35:33.560 --> 3:35:36.200 people's addresses weren't posted here, it was just their names 3:35:36.240 --> 3:35:39.600 and photos. But ICE and HSI are being very protective 3:35:40.120 --> 3:35:43.360 of the faces of the agents doing immigration raids and 3:35:43.400 --> 3:35:47.360 student crackdowns right now. They're they're really nervous about about 3:35:47.640 --> 3:35:51.080 agents possibly being targeted, so any attempt to identify these 3:35:51.200 --> 3:35:53.959 is being treated as like a threat. A Homeland Security 3:35:54.000 --> 3:35:58.040 spokesperson told Fox News quote, these pathetic activists are putting 3:35:58.120 --> 3:36:00.320 targets on the backs of our law enforcement as they 3:36:00.360 --> 3:36:04.160 shield Ms thirteen, Trendilagua and other vicious gangs at traffic, 3:36:04.200 --> 3:36:06.760 women and children, kidnapped for ransom, and poison Americans with 3:36:06.879 --> 3:36:10.600 lethal drugs. These individuals will be held accountable for obstructing 3:36:10.680 --> 3:36:13.960 the law and justice. This shouldn't be controversial. 3:36:15.680 --> 3:36:15.880 Yeah. 3:36:17.600 --> 3:36:23.000 So five people died after a panga carrying migrants capsized 3:36:23.040 --> 3:36:25.520 off Del Mar, which is in North County San Diego. 3:36:26.280 --> 3:36:29.840 The search is on going. I believe another five are 3:36:29.879 --> 3:36:32.480 still missing. One of those is a ten year old 3:36:32.920 --> 3:36:37.280 girl from India, and Christie Nohan has said she wants 3:36:37.320 --> 3:36:42.200 the DOJ to pursue death penalty charges against the smugglers 3:36:42.200 --> 3:36:45.520 who brought these people over. These boats have been a 3:36:45.640 --> 3:36:48.840 thing for a while, but this is not the first 3:36:48.879 --> 3:36:52.280 of these tragedies. And it's obviously like we shouldn't lose 3:36:52.760 --> 3:36:56.080 focus of the fact that someone's little child died, which 3:36:56.160 --> 3:36:56.720 is horrific. 3:36:57.160 --> 3:37:01.680 Yeah, yeah, tough news week as usual. 3:37:01.959 --> 3:37:03.640 I guess tough news week. 3:37:04.520 --> 3:37:06.400 The only way to feel better is by fighting. 3:37:07.560 --> 3:37:09.640 But we did report the news. 3:37:10.000 --> 3:37:18.119 We did, We reported the news. Hey, we'll be back 3:37:18.200 --> 3:37:21.320 Monday with more episodes every week from now until the 3:37:21.400 --> 3:37:22.440 heat death of the Universe. 3:37:23.200 --> 3:37:25.680 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:37:25.879 --> 3:37:28.920 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:37:29.000 --> 3:37:32.560 coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:37:32.680 --> 3:37:36.200 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 3:37:36.280 --> 3:37:38.560 now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly 3:37:38.640 --> 3:37:40.880 in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.