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Speaker 1: All media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 1: Good morning podcast fans, and welcome to it could happen here.

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Speaker 1: It's me James today and I'm joined by my friend

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Speaker 1: and colleague Garrison Davis Hige.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 1: Hey, So what I want to talk about today is

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Speaker 1: a little piece I wrote. I wrote it on my Patreon,

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Speaker 1: but I want to kind of discuss it here, read

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Speaker 1: it to you and talk about it about what we

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Speaker 1: talk about when we talk about immigration. So if he

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Speaker 1: recently sent me an Associated Press piece on the Daddy

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Speaker 1: and Gap, and the piece was reflecting on the lost

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Speaker 1: of economic opportunity for the MBRA people who had previously sold,

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Speaker 1: as you heard in my series right products services accommodation

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Speaker 1: to migrants coming through a Garyan gap. But if you

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Speaker 1: read that whole piece you'd never know they were Ember

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Speaker 1: because the word Embur doesn't occur once in the piece, right,

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Speaker 1: you'd never know that the Ember people existed. They never

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Speaker 1: appear in the story. Instead. The ap which is currently

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Speaker 1: going toe to toe with the Trump administration on whether

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Speaker 1: it should call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of

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Speaker 1: America or not, and was ejected from the White House

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Speaker 1: Press Pool at one point for refusing to call it

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Speaker 1: the Gulf of America, used the phrase comarca Indigenous Lands

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Speaker 1: in its reporting, which I don't know where this came from.

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Speaker 1: It has kind of a strange capitalization. If you were

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Speaker 1: just reading the piece, you might think that that was

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Speaker 1: the name of the comarca, like that it was a

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Speaker 1: proper noun, but it's not. The commark is like I

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Speaker 1: guess you could. You could reughquate that to an American state.

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Speaker 1: It's like an administrative division of Panama. The name of

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Speaker 1: the comarca is Embera Unan, but that doesn't appear anywhere

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Speaker 1: in the appiece, and you could to be clear, Like

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Speaker 1: I understand that some reporters don't speak Spanish. I understand

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Speaker 1: that some reporters, like you know that they are not

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Speaker 1: like particularly expertly given region. Neither am I that was

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Speaker 1: my first time in Panama, But like this is something

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Speaker 1: you could find out on Google Maps, right.

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Speaker 3: It's not unique to the AP.

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Speaker 1: It happens all the time, right, and I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about that today because it happens at the US

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Speaker 1: is southern border too. One of the reasons that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to go to the Dallian was because I felt

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Speaker 1: like the Emberda story was not being told when people

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Speaker 1: talked about the Darian Gap. When they're mentioned at all,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of in passing or not as people who

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Speaker 1: have agency, right, And even I think these stories about

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Speaker 1: like the lack of income that they have off to

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Speaker 1: migrants leaving kind of strip them in a of agency

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Speaker 1: in the way that they're told. When people talk about

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Speaker 1: the Darien Gap in media, they kind of use this

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Speaker 1: heart of darkness construction. Obviously it's justed Comrade novel, but

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Speaker 1: like this idea that like it's where the wild things are,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like it strikes me as very almost orientalist.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, orientalist is what I was going to say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like it completely discounts that there are

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Speaker 1: thousands of people who live there who've raised their families there,

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Speaker 1: Their children play fucking basketball there, right. They spend their

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Speaker 1: whole life there, and they bury their elders there, and

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Speaker 1: they have done for thousands of years.

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Speaker 3: For them, it's their home, right.

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Speaker 1: And I understand that the jungle could be scary, and

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Speaker 1: I think anyone who's listened to my series will will

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Speaker 1: understand that, Like the jungle was scary for me sometimes,

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Speaker 1: and it could be a very harsh environment. But if

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Speaker 1: you're someone who belongs there, if you're comfortable there, it

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Speaker 1: can also be home, and it could be beautiful and

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Speaker 1: it could be bountiful. And I think the same thing

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Speaker 1: is true of the mountains and deserts and rivers that

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Speaker 1: make up the USA southern border. As it can kill people,

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Speaker 1: I'm well aware of that, But for the people who

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Speaker 1: call it home, the desert is somewhere that contains their

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Speaker 1: memories and their sacred spaces, their childhood recollections, and the

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Speaker 1: remains of their ancestors.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: And the emission of indigenous perspective is something that we

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Speaker 1: saw again when CHRISTI Genom decided to waive a number

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Speaker 1: of laws in order to facilitate faster construction of the

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Speaker 1: border wall.

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Speaker 3: So I want to pud that.

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Speaker 1: Again the AP coverage there the AP and again they're

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Speaker 1: far from unique in this, right, Lots of other outlets

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Speaker 1: did this too. They seem to have only engage with

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Speaker 1: the DHS press release as opposed to the actual proclamation

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Speaker 1: by knowing, which you can find in the federal register. Right,

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Speaker 1: So the press release only focused on the environmental laws

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Speaker 1: she was waving, DHS said, and I quote to cut

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Speaker 1: through bureaucratic delays. DHS is waving environmental laws, including the

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Speaker 1: National Environmental Policy Act, that could store vital products for

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Speaker 1: months or even years. This waver a clears the path

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Speaker 1: that are rapid deployment of physical barriers where they're needed most,

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Speaker 1: reinforcing our commitment to national security and the rule of law.

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Speaker 1: The rule of law thing kind of made me laugh

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Speaker 1: as they were like, here we are waving like a

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Speaker 1: dozen or so laws. But I'm not a big rule

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Speaker 1: of law person, so I guess, like that's fine. It

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Speaker 1: seems that almost every outlet though, like that's what they

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Speaker 1: read and that's what they ran with, like that they're

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Speaker 1: waving these environmental laws, and I think that can sometimes

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Speaker 1: be this like we still see this all the time

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Speaker 1: in the legacy press, like when they talk about environmental laws,

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Speaker 1: it's this idea that it's like some kind of like

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Speaker 1: people who want to protect the flowers and the plants,

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Speaker 1: and like that it's not that serious, you know, and

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Speaker 1: that like these environmental laws are something that's not that

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Speaker 1: are nice but not necessary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And like some of.

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Speaker 1: These environmental laws, like specifically the ones that regulate water,

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Speaker 1: will determine the future of places like California, like and

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Speaker 1: oviously places south of the border, right the water doesn't

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Speaker 1: know where the border is. And like in the previous

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Speaker 1: Trump administration, they wave some environmental laws, including ones about floodwater,

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Speaker 1: which that combined with the expedited way which they built

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Speaker 1: the border wall, I guess, led to them not putting

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Speaker 1: floodgates in part of the wall, which then led to

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Speaker 1: the wall damming up with like dead trees and dead

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Speaker 1: cacti right when it rained heavily, and then the wall

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Speaker 1: becoming a barrier to water, and then the wall getting

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Speaker 1: broken or washed away, right because it didn't have like

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Speaker 1: sluice gates so they could open to let the water out.

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Speaker 1: The AP went to someone called Earth Justice for comment,

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Speaker 1: and to their credit, that person said quote waving environmental,

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Speaker 1: cultural preservation and good governance laws that protect clean air,

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Speaker 1: clean water. Say if God precious cultural resources and preserve

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Speaker 1: vibrant ecosystems of biodiversity will only cause further harm to

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Speaker 1: our border communities and ecosystems. That person is the only

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Speaker 1: person who mentioned the cultural damage it's been done here,

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Speaker 1: unless a reader themselves that the Federal Register isn't linked

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Speaker 1: in any of these pieces, right, it really is. I

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Speaker 1: try and link to it when we talk about something

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Speaker 1: in executive disorder. But unless you've found that yourself, you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't know that. Along with waving these environmental laws, and

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Speaker 1: like I've said, those are important, they also wave something

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Speaker 1: called the Native American Grave Protection and Repatriation Act, according

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Speaker 1: to the Department of the Interior. I was kind of

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Speaker 1: surprised this was still up on their website. Actually, I

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Speaker 1: thought this might have been purred, so like a lot

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Speaker 1: of maybe it.

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Speaker 4: Just maybe it's just like screwed it by Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like well, I mean no, apparently no one fucking

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Speaker 1: talks about it, so yeah, maybe they got away with it,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like it's always funny going on government websites

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Speaker 1: now being like oh it's gone, like finding dead links

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Speaker 1: to so much even in stories I've written in like

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty that those links are dead now. NAGRA requires

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Speaker 1: any federally funded entity to return human remains, sunery possessions,

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Speaker 1: objects of cultural patrimony, and sacred objects to the deceased

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Speaker 1: persons and their descendants by and I'm quoting for website

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Speaker 1: now consulting with lineal descendants, Indian tribes and Native Hawaiian organizations,

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Speaker 1: or Native American human remains and other cultural items, Protecting

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Speaker 1: and planning for Native American human remains and other cultural

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Speaker 1: items that may be removed from federal or tribal lands,

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Speaker 1: Identifying and reporting all Native American human remains and other

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Speaker 1: cultural items in inventories and summaries of holdings or collections,

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Speaker 1: and giving prior notice to repatriating or transferring human remains

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Speaker 1: and other cultural items.

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Speaker 3: So the waiver allows.

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Speaker 1: Them not to do these things right crucially, in the

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Speaker 1: context of border wall construction, what allows them to do

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Speaker 1: is not to conduct an archaeological survey before they dig

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Speaker 1: the border wall. And again, like, I don't know why

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Speaker 1: this isn't something the legacy media isn't concerned about. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't in twenty twenty either right when they started doing this,

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Speaker 1: they were blasting areas where something called miden soil was found.

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Speaker 1: Mid and soil is soil or that contains evidence of

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Speaker 1: cremated human remains. Right. I wrote a piece in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty for Sierra about this. And normally before these digs

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Speaker 1: there would be an archaeological survey done by a tribal

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Speaker 1: representative would be there to take part in that. Right,

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Speaker 1: that would take time and it would delay construction. Instead,

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Speaker 1: right now, the construction will continue without considering a damage

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Speaker 1: done to the cultural patrimony and ancestral remains of the

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Speaker 1: Kumii people here in San Diego, whose homeland spanned both

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Speaker 1: sides at the border, and who were here long before

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Speaker 1: the US or Mexico was talking of. I can't think

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Speaker 1: of a good fucking ad pivot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there really is no good at pivot for.

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Speaker 1: Stuff like this.

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Speaker 3: No, there's not.

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Speaker 1: We're just going to do adverts now and we are back.

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Speaker 1: The Cumi not the only indigenous people who homelands have

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Speaker 1: been significantly permanently damaged by the construction of border barriers.

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Speaker 1: Right further east, in the homelands of the Tornada people,

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Speaker 1: where I've spent a lot of time. Wall construction has

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Speaker 1: destroyed Sacred Cuaro's. Soguaro's. That's the big cactus, like when

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Speaker 1: you think of a cactus, right, like the cactus Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah with the two arms. You could put a

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Speaker 1: little hat on that cactus if you wanted to, maybe

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Speaker 1: give it like a little six shooter and it would

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Speaker 1: look like it was a cowboy. Yeah, it's the it's

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Speaker 1: literally the cactus. It's in all the Western films that

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Speaker 1: were filmed out at Old Tucson there. Yeah, we used

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Speaker 1: to ride our bikes from the passcalt Yaki Reds to

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Speaker 1: the place where they filmed all those Western films. That

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Speaker 1: that was our loop. A very very weird experience that place.

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Speaker 1: It's like a one day I will write my fucking

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Speaker 1: five part documentary about the myth of the Old West.

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Speaker 1: But you can find it. You can find it there

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Speaker 1: in Tucson. The Soguaro's people aren't aware of orded the

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Speaker 1: highest respect as ancestors by Otam people, and they play

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Speaker 1: an important role in ceremonial and culinary traditions that have

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Speaker 1: been kept alive despite centuries of genocide and assimilationist policies

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Speaker 1: from state and local government. Under the Biden administration, the

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Speaker 1: Government Accountability Office wrote a report about damage done by

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Speaker 1: border wall construction. Again for now, this is on the

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Speaker 1: internet and I will link it in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how long that will remain on the internet.

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Speaker 1: It's a pdf, so it's going to be out and

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Speaker 1: about that. It can't be taken down, but maybe it

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Speaker 1: won't be on government websites. They highlighted the case of

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Speaker 1: Monument Hill, which was damaged by explosives in the previous

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Speaker 1: Trump administration, despite being a sacred place for Odham and

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Speaker 1: the site of ceremonies conducted by the Here said Odham,

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Speaker 1: who are their ancestors. Quito Bakito Springs, which is a

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Speaker 1: sacred site and oasis in the Sonoran Desert and it's

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Speaker 1: a really special place, was irreparably damaged in the last

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Speaker 1: Trump administration, including the destruction of a burial site that

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Speaker 1: the Tripe had sought to protect. In some cases, the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration made this worse. One of those was that

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Speaker 1: on entering office, Biden said they were going to build

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Speaker 1: not one more foot of border war in twenty twenty one. Right,

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Speaker 1: he was full of shit. They built lots more border wall,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't put a pause on some of the contracts, right.

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Speaker 1: It sort of they finished some of them and they

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, we can't go back on this federal funding.

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Speaker 1: Who's has not been an issue for Donald Trump for years.

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Speaker 1: Later they were in Congress approved it, so we have

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Speaker 1: to pay it, which was great. But the bits that

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Speaker 1: they were able to cut included a program that had

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Speaker 1: people taking care of so that they attempted to transplant

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Speaker 1: the Saguaros. They didn't just cut down because they were sacred,

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Speaker 1: right and they're very old. They wanted to take them

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Speaker 1: somewhere else, and this was part of sort of the

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Speaker 1: agreement that they came to. Unfortunately, the Biden administration cut

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Speaker 1: the funding for the people who were taking care of

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Speaker 1: them in their new location, so nearly all of them died.

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Speaker 1: They were being watered and stuff to get them settled

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Speaker 1: into their new route structure, and because of by administration

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Speaker 1: cutback funding, it stopped them from being watered, and so

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Speaker 1: many of them died in areas where barriers were built,

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Speaker 1: but drainage culverts were not finished. The colverts were never

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Speaker 1: install so that was the flooding I was talking about.

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Speaker 6: Earlier.

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Speaker 1: Right, sometimes they just went ahead and built war that

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Speaker 1: when they build the wall, it comes in about fifty

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Speaker 1: foot sections, and they truck those out there and like

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Speaker 1: just deput them on the ground flat and pull them

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Speaker 1: up right, and they dig a foundation. They mix the

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Speaker 1: sand made concrete and put the war sections up. But

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Speaker 1: then they I guess it's my understanding that in the

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Speaker 1: end of the last Trump administration, Trump made a claim

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Speaker 1: in a debate about the number of miles of wall

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Speaker 1: that had been built, and that claim was largely inaccurate,

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Speaker 1: but they sort of started trying to expost facto justify

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Speaker 1: it by claiming repairs were miles of war right, And

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Speaker 1: in the final months of the Trump administration, maybe like from

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Speaker 1: late summer to January, it was certainly to November, they

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Speaker 1: would really speed running wall construction. And part of that

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Speaker 1: was putting sections up where there should have been culverts

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Speaker 1: and just putting regular wall sections there and then attempting

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Speaker 1: to come back later and do the culverts, which because

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Speaker 1: of the funding pause.

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Speaker 3: It didn't do.

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Speaker 1: So then we've seen a huge change in how the

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Speaker 1: desert drains, right, because it backs up at the or

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Speaker 1: the detritus or the dead branches and stuff get caught

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Speaker 1: in the wall, and then the water gets sort of

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Speaker 1: pushed along the wall until it finds a weak point

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Speaker 1: to undermine it, I'll push it over. Very little of

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Speaker 1: this gets reported at all. Right, Occasionally there are media

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Speaker 1: moments when everyone wants to report on the borders damage

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Speaker 1: to Indigenous communities. We had one in twenty twenty when

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Speaker 1: they started destroying segualas at the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument.

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Speaker 1: But these appear to be when they just pop up

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Speaker 1: like this, it seems like it's without context or precedent, right,

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Speaker 1: And when outlets ignore Indigenous people for ninety percent of

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Speaker 1: their border reporting, it doesn't give the context it's necessary

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Speaker 1: to explain these incidents, which are outrageous in decades of

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Speaker 1: policy which has been outrageous. If our listeners are not

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Speaker 1: aware that the border is on Native land, all of it,

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Speaker 1: just like all of America, right, it can seem confusing

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Speaker 1: for them, right when they see something like Organ Pipe

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Speaker 1: Cactus National Monument and they think, well, that's not on

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Speaker 1: a reservation, because a lot of outlets don't give that context.

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Speaker 1: Right that obviously, reservations not contain all spaces that are

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Speaker 1: sacred to Indigenous people, and like a reservation is a

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Speaker 1: legal not a cultural construct, it can seem alien to them.

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Speaker 1: And lots of these spaces that are being military that

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Speaker 1: will be militarized under it's Roosevelt Reservation declaration that the

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Speaker 1: reservations are not militarized under that, but spaces that are

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Speaker 1: sacred to people still will be. But because are reporting

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Speaker 1: so often lacks that context, people don't understand it. The

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Speaker 1: admission of tribal lands was again like missing in lots

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Speaker 1: of pieces on the Roosevelt Reservation right Washington Post Arctic

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Speaker 1: on the Rust Reservation, the one that broke the story.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't contain the word tribal lands at all, right,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mention the fact that these areas are not

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Speaker 1: part of the militarization proclamation. The problem here isn't just

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Speaker 1: the ongoing a rage or Indigenous people. It's a failure

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Speaker 1: in basic journalistic practice. In my mind, right, we can't

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Speaker 1: properly understand borders unless we acknowledge the people they impact.

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Speaker 1: There's no way I could have experienced dairying Gap in

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Speaker 1: the way that I did if it wasn't for the

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Speaker 1: Mbire people who literally let me live in their homes.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: Without the same generosity that they showed to me, the

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Speaker 1: people crossing would die in much greater numbers. And it's

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Speaker 1: precisely because migrants to arrive in indigenous villages and not

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Speaker 1: in like a government Panama, that a system exists where

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Speaker 1: they're ferried up river on those pit agworks that are

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Speaker 1: reports it on, right, And it's precisely because they enter

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Speaker 1: government custody at Las blancas a place at the ap

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Speaker 1: court of Riverport, by the way, which I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: one of the more miserable places that one can end up.

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Speaker 1: It's terrible, and calling it a riverport fundamentally under cells

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Speaker 1: how appalling, and it's what happens to people. People are

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Speaker 1: stalled there for months, right, And that is because they

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Speaker 1: are entering the system of bureaucracy, the system of the state,

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Speaker 1: the system of fees and identification papers and all these things.

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Speaker 1: More importantly, I think we can't understand the relatively new

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Speaker 1: and invasive nature of borders, especially borders with physical barriers,

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Speaker 1: without acknowledging the much much longer history of indigenous people

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Speaker 1: moving freely through these areas. Like I said, it's much people,

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Speaker 1: it's water and wildlife in all cases, the damage down

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Speaker 1: will be unforeseen and likely irreparable. But if we only

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Speaker 1: treat the border of the rhetorical thing like something to

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Speaker 1: discuss in congress, not a physical place, then we miss

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Speaker 1: what's really happening, and we miss the people it really impacts.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to pick solely on that app it's

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Speaker 1: a tendency in the whole US right where the overwhelming

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Speaker 1: media narrative eraises the existence of indigenous people unless it's

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Speaker 1: some kind of novelty or trope through which they can

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Speaker 1: be deployed. The Darrect example was a particularly stark one

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Speaker 1: to me because I spend theatle amount of time there,

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Speaker 1: and I obviously have a great deal of affection for

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Speaker 1: the people who looked after me. But as more and

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Speaker 1: more laws are waived, both in terms of border wall

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Speaker 1: construction and human rights, more damage will be done. It's

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Speaker 1: already the case that people who speak indigenous languages tend

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Speaker 1: to have much worse outcomes in the US immigration system right.

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Speaker 1: I've seen this first hand, Like it could be very

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Speaker 1: difficult when someone arrives and they speak, you know, an

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Speaker 1: indigenous language from Mexico, from Peru, from these places where

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Speaker 1: like the people speak these digits languages their first language,

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Speaker 1: and it's hard for them to very hard for them

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Speaker 1: to get legal representation, right even US citizens.

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Speaker 4: Like that incident from just a few weeks ago with

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Speaker 4: that nineteen year old who was born in the state

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Speaker 4: of Georgia but primarily spoken indigenous language was like put

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Speaker 4: into ice attention overnight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like, which I think kind of these two narratives

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Speaker 1: sort of play into each other, right, Like, because indigenous

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Speaker 1: people don't exist so much in so much coverage, it

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Speaker 1: can be much easier for the state to make them disappear,

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Speaker 1: right like that guy.

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Speaker 4: Well yeah, and literally being arrested in charge with like

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Speaker 4: like entry as an unauthorized alien.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like absolutely, And it's happened to indigenous people who

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Speaker 1: are like indigenous to the United States, right like yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it will continue to I think I've heard some

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Speaker 1: stuff about happening on a Navajorez relatively recently. Obviously, I

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Speaker 1: should say if that has happened to you or someone

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Speaker 1: you know, you can reach out to us. Call Zone

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Speaker 1: tips at proton dot me. And like, I know that

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Speaker 1: there are lots of big border reporters, that big outlets

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Speaker 1: who fucking hate me, And I really don't care. I

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Speaker 1: just want to, Like, any one person coming into this

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Speaker 1: country who needs a bottle of water is more important

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Speaker 1: to me than all of their collective opinions, right, Like

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Speaker 1: my job is not to make them happy. My job

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Speaker 1: is to tell the stories of the people who come

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Speaker 1: into this country and often stuffer greatly to do so.

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Speaker 1: I care more about them than like my ability to

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Speaker 1: be objective, which you know, I don't think we should

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Speaker 1: be objective in these situations, and like I want to

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Speaker 1: kind of end on this idea of objectivity, because objectivity

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm glad that the Washington Post is

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Speaker 1: writing a story about a Venezuelan teacher who got deported today.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that they're giving these people human faces now.

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Speaker 1: But it's fucking hard to look at the reporters who

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Speaker 1: wouldn't drive half an hour down a dirt road to

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Speaker 1: come and see people in concentration camps when Biden was president,

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Speaker 1: because I don't know, they were worried about getting their

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Speaker 1: rental car dirty, or they don't speak Spanish, or the

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Speaker 1: desert's cold at night. Like I don't know why people

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Speaker 1: didn't come. I suspect it's because their commitment to writing

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Speaker 1: about migrants is more a commitment to doing it when

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Speaker 1: it makes money than it is to doing it because

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Speaker 1: it's the right thing to do. And like, when we

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Speaker 1: write these stories now about deportations being terrible, they seem

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Speaker 1: to pop up without context, right, and the context of

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Speaker 1: how these people came into this country and the amount

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Speaker 1: that they were forced to suffer by choice by the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration in twenty twenty three, it's completely absent from

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Speaker 1: these stories, right, Like, the reason folks, some folks that

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Speaker 1: are choosing to leave is because what they've seen of

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Speaker 1: the US government a week in an outdoor attention camp

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Speaker 1: where the government didn't even bring them food or water, right,

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Speaker 1: and then their passage through this system which doesn't give

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Speaker 1: them a pathway to permanent residency, which doesn't give them

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Speaker 1: a pathway to citizen, and then they see these deportations. Like,

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Speaker 1: from the migrant perspective, this is just a sort of

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Speaker 1: steady escalation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: what's happening now is the same as what happened before.

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Speaker 1: It's worse, it's considerably worse, and it's abhorrent. But like

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that we shouldn't tell the truth about

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Speaker 1: what happened before either. And it doesn't mean that we

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Speaker 1: should ignore the physical border as well as the sort

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Speaker 1: of rhetorical and internal and technical border, right, all these

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Speaker 1: things that we're seeing now, And like the way that

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Speaker 1: borders have worked in this country is that it's like

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Speaker 1: a ratchet that only moves to the right, and the

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Speaker 1: Republicans move it to the right, and the Democrats never

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Speaker 1: move it back, and until we hold them accountable for this,

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Speaker 1: it will continue to get worse. Like, the Democrats completely

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Speaker 1: ceded the narrative on migration under the Biden administration, and

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Speaker 1: that's part of why they lost right. Rather than like

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Speaker 1: making an argument that these people have a right to

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Speaker 1: come here, that many of them are a massive benefit

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Speaker 1: to our society, and it doesn't matter whether they are

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Speaker 1: or not, they still deserve to be treated with dignity

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Speaker 1: and respect, and even if you're a big la law

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Speaker 1: in order person, like according to international and United States law.

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Speaker 1: They didn't do that. It didn't treat them according to

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Speaker 1: international life to States law, nor did they make an

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00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: argument that it's morally right to do so. And that's

435
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: one of the reasons they lost right.

436
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 3: This is why.

437
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: I really think that we need to be conscious in

438
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,239
Speaker 1: our media consumption and be conscious as journalists of like

439
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: why we do this, because I'm finding it really hard

440
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: to see this outpouring of care from people who I

441
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: know didn't care when they were shivering little babies in

442
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: the desert, from people who could have said something, could

443
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,959
Speaker 1: have done something right, like this could have stopped earlier

444
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: if there were big, major legacy media op ed. You know,

445
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: the pictures of shivering babies were like on the nine

446
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 1: o'clock news, right coming into people's houses every night. This

447
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't have lasted for as long as it did. People

448
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: wouldn't stuff that, people wouldn't have died. But because I

449
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: guess Joe Biden was in ourviice, it didn't matter. And

450
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: I'm glad that people care now, don't get me wrong,

451
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: but like I want especially listeners to think about holding

452
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: those people accountable to caring when it's not profitable, caring

453
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: when it's not convenient, and our listeners have to be fair. Right,

454
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: We raised almost fifty thousand dollars for migrants in the desert,

455
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: and that was fantastic, But yeah, I still think we

456
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: do immigration reporting wrong. I still think for most outlet.

457
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: That's because they treat migrants as a rhetorical device, not

458
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: as people in the same way that they are, and

459
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: that upsets me and I wanted to write about it,

460
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: so I have. I guess that's all I've got. It's

461
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: not the best ending. If you are somebody who wants

462
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: to get in touch, right, like I said, especially with

463
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: regard to immigration activities, on reservations or indigenous people, you

464
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: can reach us at cool Zone tips at proton dot me.

465
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: If there's other stuff that you want to share with us,

466
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: you can do it there too. It is end to

467
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 1: end encryptid only if you send from another proton email address.

468
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: And that's all I got.

469
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 3: Welcome Jack, it happened here a podcast about transgender I

470
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 3: am your host, Na Wong. Now we have spent a

471
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 3: lot of time on this show covering a bunch of

472
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 3: really bad stuff and also maybe some cool stuff. We've

473
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: had some cool trans things on this show too. We're

474
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 3: gonna have some more in like the coming weeks. But

475
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 3: it is a bleak time to be trans really anywhere

476
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 3: in the world. The United States is also pretty fucking

477
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 3: bad right now. But in the words of Lengths and Hees,

478
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 3: between the darkness and the dawn, the rises a red star.

479
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 3: And one of the things that that has happened as

480
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 3: this sort of like you know, sort of the crisis

481
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 3: of transphobia and the crisis of the genocide and the

482
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 3: sort of multiple genocides the government's doing, and as sort

483
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 3: of transphobia as like an institutional state discourse has like solidified.

484
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: Is that.

485
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, multiple generations of trans journalists have really

486
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: kind of like risen to the forefront. And yeah, we've

487
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 3: we've been We've been seeing a bunch of extremely cool

488
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 3: reporting and a bunch of very very good work from

489
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 3: a bunch of like more radical trans journalists. And that's

490
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 3: a thing that kind of like there's been so few

491
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 3: of us for so long and suddenly there's several and

492
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: it ripped and I'm really happy about it. And with

493
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 3: me to talk about sort of, you know, what transjournalism

494
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 3: is like in this moment, how it functions and you know,

495
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 3: and how how how it can be sustained going forward

496
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 3: and why it's sort of important is David Forbes, who

497
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,959
Speaker 3: is the editor of the Asheville Blade and also an

498
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 3: independent journalist. Mira Lasine, who is a freelance journalist who

499
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 3: recently launched the outlet Free Radical and medi Cast again,

500
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: who's an independent journalist and the creator of medi cast News.

501
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 3: All of you welcome to the show. Thank you, hap

502
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 3: Byby on.

503
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 1: You're having me.

504
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm ecstatic to have all of you on to

505
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: get to talk about this because I don't know, I

506
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: guess the place that I want to start is, like

507
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 3: I I remember this kind of like period in like

508
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, twenty twenty twenty four where it was like,

509
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 3: I mean, it still is really bleak for trans journalism

510
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: in a lot of ways, but like, you know, I'm

511
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 3: just in transmedia in general. Like I was just watching

512
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: like the space that had been opened a little bit

513
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 3: in like the twenty tens for there to be trans

514
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 3: people in media, just like closing, you know, And like

515
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 3: I've been watching like pretty immediately around me, like I've

516
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 3: been watching the number of like transforms, especially like non

517
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,239
Speaker 3: white transferms just like disappearing from media. And it was,

518
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 3: you know, it was it was like watching the stars

519
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: disappear from this guy and the thing for the stars

520
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: disappearing from the skies. You know, there's you don't notice

521
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: it's unless you're looking at them, in which case the

522
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: light has fucking gone forever and it was this really

523
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 3: really bleak thing. But also, you know, as it's happening,

524
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: and as we've been sort of like resisting this, I've

525
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 3: been getting to watch like the stars go back on

526
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 3: in the sky and like watching new like people emerge,

527
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 3: and watching people who've been doing cool work for a

528
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 3: really long time sort of like come out into the

529
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 3: open and like get more sort of national recognition. And Yeah,

530
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, I guess, so I guess that's the

531
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 3: sort of place I wanted to start, is just talking

532
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 3: a little bit about like what it's like to be

533
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 3: fucking doing journalism right now.

534
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 7: Because Jesus Christ, I'll go ahead and start. I've been

535
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 7: a journalist for over twenty years. And for those who

536
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 7: might be wondering, since you refer to transfems, I am

537
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 7: a transwoman. I U she the pronounce I also like

538
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,959
Speaker 7: the name David so. But I have seen it kind

539
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 7: of wax and lane. I've seen it go up and down,

540
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 7: and to some degree, what we're facing now it is

541
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 7: a much worse and escalating version, but it is also

542
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 7: some of what I've seen trans journalists face period. I

543
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 7: came out in publicly in twenty sixteen. I started my

544
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 7: transition in twenty fifteen, and immediately my freelance career basically

545
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 7: died overnight. And it wasn't like I was writing for

546
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 7: you know, right wing outlets or something. And you know, honestly,

547
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 7: the fact is, and this is I think unusual among

548
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 7: trans journalism because a lot of it admirably focuses on national,

549
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 7: international level stuff because what we face is so vast.

550
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 7: But if it had not been for the local support,

551
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 7: because the Blade, a lot of the Blades subscribers are

552
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 7: local that we certainly welcome people to subscribe from wherever

553
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 7: they are, you know, I would be homeless, and there's

554
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 7: a good chance I wouldn't be talking to you all

555
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 7: right now. But at the same time, in this kind

556
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 7: of what I kind of call the quiet purge, which

557
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 7: I think has been escalating in recent years that you

558
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 7: talked about about, you know, just we've got trans journalists

559
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 7: who used to write for national magazines living out of

560
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 7: their cars. Now that is the reality we face our publications,

561
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 7: all working class trans people. And you know, we've had

562
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 7: journalists arrested twice, yeah, oh my for doing their jobs.

563
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 7: Two of our journalists were were taken to trial in

564
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 7: twenty twenty three on a minor trustpassing charge, which is

565
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 7: almost unheard of in the US as bad as US

566
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 7: often is.

567
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 3: As you mention, also, this was like trespassing for fucking

568
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 3: reporting on the cops doing a helpless and camp and

569
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 3: sleep like on Christmas. Yeah yeah, oh Christmas. Yeah yeah,

570
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 3: Like I just like unhinged police state shit, like yeah.

571
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: Yeah.

572
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 8: Even in LA they'll like sometimes they'll act like accidentally

573
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 8: a arrest journalist, but then they'll be like, Okay, we'll

574
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 8: let you go because they're a journalists. They don't actually

575
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 8: take you to trial.

576
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 7: This is one of those kind of welcome to Ashville moments,

577
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 7: because I think people buy the marketing sometimes and think

578
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 7: we're this super progressive city and actually it's an incredibly

579
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 7: repressive like tourism Fife and that's this is kind of

580
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 7: really still point though, Like the city got city council

581
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 7: here is six Democrats and one kind of like Bernie

582
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 7: Sanders type independent though even more tepid, and the DA

583
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 7: is a Democrat. And still you know, they were hell

584
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 7: bent to persecute trans journalists. Yeah, one of our journals

585
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 7: until the Bliss was openly mistreated and misgendered based on

586
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,479
Speaker 7: her genitor during that So to some degree what's happening

587
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 7: now is certainly a worsening, but it is also an

588
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 7: extension what's been going on for a very long time.

589
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 7: So okay, like it is getting worse, I don't know

590
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 7: we're going to be in a two, three, even one year,

591
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 7: but also like this is not a new fight.

592
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can speak to it a little bit too.

593
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,239
Speaker 8: And I've been a journalist for I guess a lot

594
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 8: last six months because it's a long story, but I

595
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 8: kind of got into it more out of fear for myself.

596
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 8: Sometimes people think I'm selfless, and maybe I am a

597
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 8: little bit, but a lot of it is really selfish

598
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 8: and just feeling like I have to do stuff to

599
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 8: protect myself and my friends basically. But even in that

600
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 8: short period of time, I have faced a lot of

601
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 8: bad stuff from honestly predominantly the left and liberals and

602
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 8: sometimes even other queer people being a trans woman of color,

603
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 8: and that wasn't really initially what I was afraid of,

604
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 8: you know. I was afraid of like I'm going to

605
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 8: get death threats and Nazis up in like fandox being

606
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 8: actually none of that's happened. I can't really explain why

607
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 8: other than that I just don't use Twitter, and I

608
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 8: guess so they don't know why exists. But I have

609
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 8: like one of the first national news story that I broke,

610
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 8: or one of them, I guess. It was about like

611
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 8: Medai being like super racist, and I like kind of

612
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 8: figured that out. I like proved that it was racist

613
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 8: basically just like use my brain to make it tell

614
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 8: on itself and explain it's prompt and all that, and

615
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 8: it became the huge international news story, but it was

616
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 8: like immediately co opted by a Washington Post journalist who

617
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 8: retreated me and then recreated the conversation and posted it again.

618
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,959
Speaker 8: And then I had to go on like this weeks

619
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 8: long like kind of campaign to try to just get

620
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 8: basic credit for that. And eventually she did credit me

621
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 8: in the column to give her credit, but that was

622
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 8: not something that was forgiven, and a lot of others

623
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 8: that I said the thing to you also didn't credit me.

624
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 8: And that's just been a recurring trend that, uh, yeah,

625
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 8: like I'm kind of invisible even though I make a

626
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 8: lot of important news.

627
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 3: So that kind of sucks. So yeah, there's something happens

628
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: fucking constantly. I'm like, my, my, like, welcome to the

629
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: this this is before I was out too. And it's

630
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 3: also like, you know, part part of what's going on

631
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 3: here is like one of the things you learned really

632
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 3: quickly in media is the extent to which so much

633
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 3: national media is just like what they do is steal

634
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: stories from like people like who are you know, from

635
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 3: sort of like like more regional media or people that

636
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: think they can get away with taking stuff from like if.

637
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 3: And this goes all the way up the chain, right

638
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 3: like if if. If you want to know what's gonna

639
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 3: be on Rachel Maddow show, look at look at what's

640
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 3: happening on behind the bastards whenever they cover someone on

641
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: the right, And within about three weeks you will get

642
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 3: a Rachel Mattour episode that is five minutes a thing.

643
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 3: But like you know, but like you know, it's obviously

644
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: like it'significantly worse with like trans people, because like, yeah,

645
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 3: they can just fucking stell stories to mess Like I remember, god, my,

646
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 3: like my fucking like the first like journalism well that's

647
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 3: not true, but the first journalism stuff that I did

648
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 3: with like thoson people was like we would dream in

649
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,919
Speaker 3: like the Atlanta spash shooting. We tracked down there there's

650
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 3: like that there was a Facebook post that people were

651
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 3: circulating reportedly from the shooter that was like basically blaming

652
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 3: like anti China media stuff for it. And we tracked

653
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 3: down that this person did not have a Facebook and

654
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 3: that all of this was fake, but that person that

655
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 3: post had been circling into the national news and we

656
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 3: were like, well, yeah, this is like fake, right, and

657
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 3: then like every single news, like every single like CNN,

658
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 3: fucking Fox News, like every single major dwe outlet just

659
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: like took all of our work and like repackaged it

660
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 3: and then never fucking mentioned that it was like Gary

661
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: and I who did this, because you know, why would

662
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 3: you credit the transgender anarchists when you could simply repackage

663
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 3: the story yourself. And this is a problem that's like

664
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 3: goes all the way up to like this is part

665
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 3: of the reason we're here right now, right Like we're

666
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 3: complaining about this on sort of like professional level because

667
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 3: like it's annoying, but also like the reason we're fucking

668
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 3: here right now is because the person who got to

669
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 3: write about trans stuff was fucking Jettison gall who is

670
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 3: a sis man whose only qualification it was the thing

671
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 3: he previously wrote about was men who fuck other men

672
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 3: who don't consider themselves gay. And because he was the

673
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 3: person who got to write all of the like trans

674
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 3: cooveraging with though, he's just like some fucking cis dipshit right,

675
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 3: Like he's now the guy who's like been being cited

676
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 3: in fucking legal cases for ages and ages for why

677
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 3: you should restrict trans healthcare, oh.

678
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 4: The Atlantic and its consequences on society disaster yas.

679
00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I meriad you want to talk a bit about

680
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 3: your exp with it.

681
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 6: Honestly, what you just described has been happening to me

682
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 6: this week. So I've been in the industry for about

683
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 6: three to four years now, consistently inconsistently for a little

684
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 6: bit longer, And initially it was way easier for me

685
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 6: to get eggs, Like within the first few months of

686
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 6: me seriously starting, I got accepted pitches into Discover magazine

687
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 6: and places like that, and then like within like six

688
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 6: months after that, it became a nightmare to get pitches accepted. Yeah,

689
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 6: it just so happened. I became more out as trans

690
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 6: off the time frame definitely not a coincidence at all.

691
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 6: But more recently, this week I launched my independent newsletter,

692
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 6: The Free Radical. Go subscribe it, goes subscribe it. It's

693
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 6: legitimately great.

694
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 3: You will get reporting there that you won't fucking get well, okay,

695
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 3: you will get recording there that you won't get from

696
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 3: anyone else until about three weeks later, when all the

697
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 3: national out let's pick it up, and it will be

698
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 3: better and you will have it first to the person

699
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 3: who actually reported it.

700
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 6: In every artguard retons so far, I've taken a second

701
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 6: to basically be like, Okay, here's some anarchist shit you

702
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 6: should read. Y'all. Audience is mostly like libs, and I'm

703
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 6: just like here, here, read this please. But my first

704
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 6: story I broke this week was about a trans woman

705
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 6: who was legally held in Guantanamo Bay, and that story

706
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 6: got picked up by big remedia outlets pretty quick. But

707
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 6: in the first like twelve hours, the news uplet then

708
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 6: did a very good story that basically just cited me

709
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 6: every chance they got. Come to find out, this is

710
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 6: because a trans woman wrote that she's awesome. I just

711
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 6: followed her to the other day. Oh but then bazillion

712
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 6: dus out like started picking up on this.

713
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was a Brazilian trans woman who got like

714
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 3: sent to Guantanamo.

715
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 6: Yeah. And the first one to do this was the

716
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 6: newspaper Forgive me if I am mispronounced in this full

717
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 6: holdais self polo. I believe it's called I might be

718
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 6: mispronouncing that. I apologize if I am. But they are

719
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 6: one of the biggest newspapers in Brazil and definitely one

720
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 6: of the oldest. And that story was all right, you know,

721
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 6: they credited me, you're breaking the story. Yeah, I was

722
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 6: talking to the person who wrote that. She's sweet and

723
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 6: even did original recording. It's awesome. And then right after that,

724
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 6: like dozens of other outlets came. Then none of them

725
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 6: credited me, and they posted like social media stuff about

726
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 6: the story. Not a single one of those credited me,

727
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 6: and they're getting like thousands of lights and comments and shares,

728
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 6: and most egregious I think is I've seen a few

729
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 6: of them credit the journalist with fulha as breaking the story,

730
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 6: and I've seen one sake them as breaking the story.

731
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 3: Oh my god, who's art?

732
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 6: Go mind you literally in a subheading says I broke

733
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 6: the story.

734
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I didn't check in on it today yet,

735
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 9: but last night I was like up late just looking

736
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 9: at all the news outlets that was boosting, and it's like,

737
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 9: and why the stories getting coverage.

738
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 6: Don't get me wrong, it's an important one. It's just like, yeah, no,

739
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 6: it's great. Yeah, almost none of them are seeing where

740
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 6: they got the story from. It's just like, oh, wow,

741
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 6: there's this bigger outlet covery. I'm gonna credit the bigger outlift.

742
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 3: So did to explain why we're also sort of concerned

743
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 3: about like the way this attribution stuff works, right, this

744
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: is an incredibly material problem for us, right, And like

745
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 3: I am very lucky in that, like in terms of transjertionalism,

746
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 3: I have like a stable job. But the thing is,

747
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 3: right unless unless you fucking got really lucky and you

748
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 3: got hired like as assis person, and then you have

749
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 3: a bunch of very very supportive like coworkers, and like

750
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 3: your bosses are supportive. You are like trying to cobble

751
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 3: together like every scent that you can possibly pull out

752
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 3: of a fucking couch cushion, because like you know, I've

753
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 3: said this other show before, right, Like, if you're a

754
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 3: transperson in the US, even when even before all the

755
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 3: turf tariffs hit right like you you were living in

756
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 3: the night in like nineteen thirty six, great depression levels

757
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 3: of unemployment, and you know, and so and so that

758
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 3: means that, like it actually matters a lot when when

759
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 3: other outlets do your stories and don't attribute it to you,

760
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 3: because like, you have to find a way to fucking

761
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 3: make money, and like, almost all trans journalists are like

762
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 3: the most hideously broke people you've ever heard of in

763
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 3: your entire fucking life. Like, and this is also you know,

764
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 3: and this is this is also part of the way

765
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 3: that like class plays out in the transmitting you see,

766
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 3: is like, you know, the people with the biggest platforms

767
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 3: tend to be trans people who were already doing okay,

768
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 3: because those are the only people who can afford to

769
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 3: fucking do this. And like that's why most of you

770
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 3: have heard of me, and most of you probably have

771
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 3: not heard of David and Miira, even though David and

772
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 3: Mirra do like quite frankly more important journalism than I do,

773
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 3: and like and in terms of especially in terms of

774
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 3: like like and like break a lot way more fucking

775
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 3: stories than I do. Because it's not kind of like

776
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: not exactly like my thing, right, But that's because I was, like,

777
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: you know, like I was already sort of like in

778
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 3: a place that was financially secure, and everyone else is

779
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 3: so unbelievably fucking broke all the time. And it matters

780
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: when fucking stories get stolen, because the only way that

781
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 3: if if you're a trans journalist and you're you know,

782
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,479
Speaker 3: you're working at your own outlet, because an outlet won't

783
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 3: fucking hire you because that's just the way that the

784
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 3: fucking media is structured. The only way for you to

785
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 3: get paid is by like people seeing your stories. And

786
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 3: that's part of why there's like just not that many

787
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: trans journalists because like the level of discrimination on top

788
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 3: of the kind of like erasure of independent journalist that

789
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 3: already happens, makes it just like financially impossible to fucking

790
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 3: do it.

791
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's it's not just uh liberal media, or it's

792
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 8: not just like the cist liberal meat too. Sometimes, Like

793
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 8: I had a similar thing with when I broke the

794
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 8: story of rain and some other sexual abuse nonprofits removing

795
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 8: all of the trans people from their websites. That became

796
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 8: a national news story, and the Washington Post kicked it

797
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 8: up also, and I think part of that was because

798
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 8: I complained so much about the previous time where they

799
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 8: almost didn't cite me, that maybe they were a little

800
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 8: bit more cautious about me, is my theory. But anyway,

801
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 8: after that initial news story that cited me, same thing

802
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 8: happened where it's like everyone's like, oh, well, we can

803
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 8: just cite the Washington Post now, and so this person

804
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 8: no one knows. And the first website to do that

805
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 8: was like a queer news outlet, and then I just

806
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 8: kept watching as like I think it was like three

807
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 8: or four different queer or like feminist women focused news

808
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,879
Speaker 8: outlets did the same thing of not citing me, And

809
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 8: there was even like a really long piece from this

810
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 8: other like, oht that was it felt like it was

811
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 8: going out of its way not to cite me because

812
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 8: it was talking about this entire issue about nonprofits censoring people,

813
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 8: and that was an entire conversation that was started specifically

814
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 8: because of the news article I wrote, but it specifically

815
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 8: did not cite me, even though they mentioned how one

816
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 8: of the organizations that I reported on had reversed course,

817
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 8: which is something that they emailed me and said it

818
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 8: was because of me. So that's how that's how deep

819
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 8: this goes, they will like go out of their way

820
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 8: to like carve you out of a story that exists

821
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 8: because of you, even if they are extensively you know,

822
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 8: not just a liberal like a New York Times outlet,

823
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,439
Speaker 8: but like a left wing like progressive facing outlet that's

824
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 8: trying to like market itself like that. They they just

825
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 8: want to exclude trans women from their own stories. Even

826
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 8: it's kind of crazy.

827
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, the extent of it is actually telling of the

828
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 7: local level too. Here the blade Diddle number of reporting

829
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 7: and we also featured some like really well thought out

830
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 7: and pretty sharp opinion columns, which is one thing we

831
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 7: kind of specializing because they're really good for like raising

832
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 7: issues in the local level about how awful the tourism

833
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 7: Development Authority is, which is this hotel or cartail that

834
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 7: takes every dime of all the local hotel tax, every

835
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 7: bit of it, and then uses it to market the

836
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 7: place to more rich people and push crackdowns on pretty

837
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 7: much everyone else.

838
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 3: So we pushed this.

839
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 7: It became a widespread public demand, A lot of organizing

840
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 7: happened around it, and there was zip Zilch zero mentioned

841
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 7: that like spurred by investigations and editorials in the Asheville Blade.

842
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 7: Even one of the people who wrote that editorial, who

843
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 7: was a local resident activist who dealt with some tourism stuff,

844
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 7: was literally being quoted the fact she'd written a piece

845
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 7: for the Blade and that you know, was just not mentioned,

846
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 7: and it actually became kind of a running kind of

847
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 7: grim joke because we're all working class Trains people, and

848
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 7: you know, half of us are transferm is just the

849
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 7: Asheville Blade does not exist. And some of that was

850
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 7: for liberals, but honestly, Ashville has a massive trains massaging problem.

851
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 7: Which think we were the first meet outs to do

852
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 7: like a quick guide to trans misogyny in which we

853
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 7: did kind of like a slide show about it in

854
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 7: our Patreon and stuff, because it was that extensive. But

855
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 7: even the left to Nashville has some real problems with

856
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 7: trans misogyny. So and it's applied everything out just from

857
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 7: trans issues, but even to bread and butter kind of

858
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 7: local stuff, which we also do a lot of reporting on.

859
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 7: You know, it's we can't admit that trans leftists and

860
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 7: anarchists are shaping the discussion in any way, shape or form.

861
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 4: MHM.

862
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 3: It's funny because like like even us like even like

863
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 3: the podcast it could happen here, which is like a

864
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 3: pretty big national thing, like there's no one else talks

865
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 3: about us. It's fucking amazing. You could just like see

866
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 3: you could like literally watch like every other podcast that's

867
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 3: like a tenth of our size there's like media coverage

868
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 3: of and there's nothing and they will never admit that

869
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 3: we fucking did anything. It's awesome. It's so cool, And

870
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 3: I think like a conversions of facturacy too, because like

871
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 3: you know, on the one hand, like in terms of

872
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 3: sort of the way that hypervisibility works, right, hypervisibility for

873
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 3: transferms only works negatively, like there's only the kind of

874
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 3: like you get fucked by it. But then also on

875
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 3: top of it, you get the reverse version of it,

876
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: where it's like, yeah, you know your labor was stolen

877
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 3: all and this is you know, this is true both

878
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 3: in movements. This is true of the way the sort

879
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 3: of capitalist media functions. And then on top of that

880
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: we have the kind of like trifecta of like we

881
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 3: will never mention that you exist, which is trans independent

882
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 3: and radical at the same time, and like this is

883
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 3: the thing happens like every fucking transferm like journalist, like

884
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 3: friend of the show Maya Arsen crime w has had

885
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 3: this happen to it like a billion fucking times. I

886
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 3: want to talk a bit more about kind of just

887
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 3: like the financials of how this plays out and how

888
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 3: independent media is sort of being so ported in this era,

889
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 3: because you know, like it's also really true that like Eve,

890
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 3: even the like nominally trans outlets, like a lot of

891
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 3: it functions a labor exploitation. And yeah, let's let's talk

892
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 3: a bit about that.

893
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 6: I have a lot of strong cakes, seen some shit.

894
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 6: Oh boy, I have so many opinions, So I mentioned

895
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 6: I kind of more formally got to start three to

896
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 6: four years ago. My first article was published in like

897
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,919
Speaker 6: twenty eighteen, and it was just like a local thing

898
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 6: when I was living in Scranton, Pennsylvania area where bathing happens,

899
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 6: but I found something to report on. The reason I

900
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 6: got started that would have been like early twenty twenty two.

901
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 6: Reason I got started then because I was homeless and

902
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 6: I needed a way to make money, and where I

903
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 6: was living at the time it was a complete job

904
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 6: desert there. I didn't have a car and there was

905
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 6: nothing in walking distance to me. The only things that

906
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 6: were like minimum wage food service jobs that over half

907
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 6: an hour walk and my lon disabled. My body is

908
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 6: in pain if I stand up too long. So those

909
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 6: jobs did not last long because I physically couldn't. And

910
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 6: so I tried to find something that I could do remotely,

911
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 6: more consistently, and I went all in into freelance writing

912
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 6: and journal.

913
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 5: With the.

914
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 3: Real really the money making career.

915
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I'm totally I'm just in this for the money,

916
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 6: you know.

917
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 1: I made such.

918
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 6: Amazing profits that year, which is why I ended up

919
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 6: homeless again, and by the end of the year I

920
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 6: was living in a hotel.

921
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 3: God yeah.

922
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 6: And a lot of the writing I was doing at

923
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 6: that time was very generalist and I hadn't really found

924
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 6: much of my niche yet. But as I began to

925
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 6: zero it more on trains, issues over time and just

926
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 6: politics and stuff like that. Because as an aside, I

927
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 6: also tried to break into gaming journalism because I unfortunately

928
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 6: am a gamer regredibly many such cases, many such cases,

929
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 6: and that industry is just dead. It was dying at

930
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 6: that point and now it's just like, if you want

931
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 6: to get a job as a gaming journalist, you're not

932
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 6: gonna I tried. We need more people to do it,

933
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 6: but it does not pay. So I ended up going

934
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 6: into politics journalism, which pays like marginally better, and by

935
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 6: marginally better, let me talk about some of my rates.

936
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 3: Oh god, yeah.

937
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 6: One outlet I've written for pretty consistently goal for a while.

938
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 6: To start, it paid me about one hundred bucks an

939
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 6: article flat rate. And this includes for highly research and

940
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 6: death recording articles.

941
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 2: My god, yeah, this.

942
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 3: Is again like shit that's going to be stolen by

943
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 3: a national outlet in two days, like and by you.

944
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 6: A lot of these stories took weeks to make and

945
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 6: fell for a hundred bucks, And so I eventually got

946
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 6: quote upcradated to that outl it to doing seventy five

947
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 6: a piece, but four pieces in a month, and so

948
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 6: that was great. You know that two hundred dollars a

949
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 6: month for each individually reported piece. That really paid the bills.

950
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 6: And eventually it changed into one fifty a piece for

951
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 6: indef reporting pieces that often took over a month's worth

952
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 6: of work to get going. And I had to meet

953
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 6: my deadliner as they would get really angry at me

954
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 6: and they would be really dickish. And that was one

955
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 6: of my better experiences, certainly, not the best I've had.

956
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 6: Plenty of people who were wonderful, who I've riten for

957
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 6: and I've had great times with. But the through line

958
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 6: of all of it, even the places that pay that

959
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 6: are they're for one off stories. They're for things that

960
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 6: do not giveing key a source of and come long term.

961
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 6: Even the places that have paid me the best for

962
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 6: individual storyes, it's not enough, not the least of which

963
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 6: because you know, the cost of living is borable right now,

964
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 6: terrorists are going to show up and oh God, or

965
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 6: what the fuck is happening, But also because none of

966
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 6: it's consistent. The closest to consistent I had was overworking

967
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 6: myself by writing like upwards of like ten articles a week,

968
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 6: sometimes upwards of like five to seven in one day

969
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 6: and all of them being reported and in that And

970
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 6: it's not sustainable doing that, No, no, but that's just common.

971
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 6: That is just normal.

972
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's and it's like the sort

973
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 3: of bleak thing about it is your your options are

974
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 3: you have money already, you won the fucking lottery basically,

975
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 3: and like you got a stable position, you work at

976
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 3: a rate that is like genuinely hideous, or you have

977
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 3: a side job, and sometimes it's a lot of these

978
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 3: things combined. Yeah, yeah, I think there's a tendency to

979
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 3: talk about discrimination as something that's sort of like abstract

980
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 3: or something that's even just kind of like point of

981
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 3: hiring stuff, which is all true and like, you know,

982
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 3: it is like yeah, like part of the problem with

983
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 3: this is that it's impossible to get like fucking staff

984
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 3: positions and like and like I could say this is

985
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 3: like so I mean I got hired like as a

986
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 3: SIS person, right, and like and like they would have

987
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 3: hired me if I was trans, But like that's also

988
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 3: just true for a lot of people, which is that

989
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 3: like that's like the way that you can do it.

990
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 3: So like there is the like front toward discrimination. But

991
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 3: then also the second aspect of it is that like

992
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 3: the way that all of this stuff plays out structurally

993
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 3: in the economy is that you get reduced to sort

994
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: of contract labor unless you try to go go it

995
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 3: by yourself. And because of the incredible just my material

996
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 3: financial oppression of trans people, this is another big part

997
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 3: of the reason why there's just so few, you know,

998
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 3: and like there's there's becoming more right and I'm incredibly

999
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 3: like you know, like I'm fucking talking with three trans

1000
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 3: journalists this rules. And also the reason is all more

1001
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 3: of us, which is important because like sis, people trying

1002
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,879
Speaker 3: to cover our stori is a fucking disaster, Like that's

1003
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 3: how we got here. But like part of the reason

1004
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 3: why there's not more is just that, like it's so

1005
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 3: difficult to survive doing this and yeah, you know, and

1006
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 3: that's also I'm gonna gona tur this into a minor plug,

1007
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 3: which is like, go subscribe to the Ashful Blade, go

1008
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: subscribe to Free Radical, goes subscribe to mane cast News,

1009
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 3: because like literally the difference between like people being able

1010
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 3: to have an apartment and pay their rent or like

1011
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 3: living in a car is like the amount of support

1012
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 3: that you get from this stuff.

1013
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 7: That's absolutely true. Yeah, and I should note the you know,

1014
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 7: the Blade's a co op. We've been one for for

1015
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 7: half a decade now, and part of the reason for

1016
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 7: that was we've seen how unfairly like income was treated

1017
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 7: just in the press in general. And also I'm an

1018
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 7: anner kissed and while I love being an editor, I

1019
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 7: don't want to be a boss. I want to like

1020
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 7: work with other people, and it's made us a lot

1021
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 7: more effective. I would say we wouldn't exist if we

1022
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 7: hadn't become a co op, but also when we do

1023
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 7: hit a difficult financial spot and we operate in a

1024
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 7: shoestring budget, especially post to Lene as sadly a lot

1025
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 7: of folks have been driven out of Ashville by the

1026
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,479
Speaker 7: refusal of various governments to do anything about rental aid,

1027
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 7: by the resumption of like very quick resumption of fvictions,

1028
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 7: and a lot of other horrible stuff Like it's a struggle.

1029
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 7: We all are working class folks, we all work of

1030
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 7: their jobs and face transis, the discrimination, trans misology, and transphobia.

1031
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 7: So it's it's difficult. And even with being a co op,

1032
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 7: we do the best we can, and we do, unlike

1033
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 7: other places, pay freelancers fair rate. But sometimes it's legitimately

1034
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 7: difficult to divide up our tiny budget, and at some

1035
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 7: points we say, look, we can't cover this right now,

1036
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 7: or we have to say okay, yeah, in some cases

1037
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 7: I've done it before, certainly I'm covering this, but I

1038
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 7: am going to literally have to split up payment forward

1039
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:05,919
Speaker 7: over multile months because we just don't have the money

1040
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 7: in there. But I feel it does need, it does

1041
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 7: need to get out there. And even if those decisions

1042
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 7: are made more fairly, it is still a real problem

1043
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 7: that we are dividing up a fairly small pool of resources.

1044
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 7: We do a lot with that, but it is real limitation.

1045
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

1046
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:21,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1047
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 8: I'm kind of in a similar boat in terms of

1048
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 8: my publication, Maddie cast News. So I've in one of

1049
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,399
Speaker 8: the categories you mentioned. Actually I'm in two of them,

1050
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 8: where I find what I'm doing not from my work

1051
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 8: but from.

1052
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 3: My first job, my main job. I guess which I got.

1053
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 8: I guess pretending to be assis or maybe you know,

1054
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 8: non binary, be them or whatever and then kind of

1055
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 8: jump scare them. But anyway, that job pays pretty well thankfully,

1056
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 8: you know, software engineering one of the one of the

1057
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 8: lottery professions for trans women. You get your healthcare, you

1058
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 8: get your money. But I've been trying to go beyond

1059
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 8: just me and try to help other people as well.

1060
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 8: So recently we just applied for fiscal sponsorship with five

1061
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 8: to one C three, which hopefully hopefully let us become

1062
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 8: a charity tax deductible and all that. And I've also

1063
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 8: been putting a bit of my own money. And I've

1064
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 8: also been you know, pretty much begging all my readers

1065
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 8: to give us money because one of the biggest goals

1066
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 8: of my publication has It kind of started off more

1067
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 8: about like, you know, reporting on the news, of course,

1068
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 8: but now it's reporting on the news and also you know,

1069
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 8: making sure the people who report on the news aren't homeless.

1070
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 8: Actually maybe that's a bad thing. Everyone I know in

1071
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 8: my life knows people like all these journalists who report

1072
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 8: on this news, but a lot of them probably don't

1073
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 8: even know how much like they suck as they struggled

1074
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 8: just like getting through their daily lives. So I'm really

1075
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 8: trying to hopefully create some structure for us to have

1076
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 8: at least one nonprofit that will fund trans journalists at

1077
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 8: like a living wage of at least, you know, twenty

1078
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 8: five dollars an hour, which I honest I don't think

1079
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 8: it's a lot, especially like in a place like LA,

1080
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 8: but twenty five dollars an hour is probably more than

1081
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,280
Speaker 8: you can get almost anywhere as a trans journalist.

1082
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 3: Also, I've heard a lot of jokes.

1083
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 8: About, you know, we're passing around the same trade dollars

1084
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 8: in the trans community, and it's a little bit more

1085
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 8: of that. But I'm also hoping to see if I

1086
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 8: can try to fundraise from other people and try to,

1087
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 8: you know, raise awareness for this issue because I don't

1088
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 8: have a lot of time myself to be read in

1089
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 8: articles these days, because I do have a full ten job.

1090
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 8: But yeah, hoping to kind of make a dent on

1091
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 8: this issue and raise awareness. And it's really a win

1092
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 8: ran for all trans people that you know, if we're

1093
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 8: paying people who need this money to survive, but they're

1094
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 8: also creating really important news coverage that literally is like

1095
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 8: life changing for hundreds of thousands, millions of people at

1096
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 8: many times. And that's how I see it's an exceptionally

1097
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 8: important issue that is completely unaddressed.

1098
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 3: This is also part of the issue with the way

1099
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 3: that like trans issue who are reported on by the

1100
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 3: media is that they're they're largely you know, and it's

1101
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 3: not things like healthcare aren't important, right, but like just

1102
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 3: the raw class dynamic of all of this just does

1103
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 3: not get talked about, right. The homelessness rates that I

1104
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 3: don't I don't, actually fuck I should have the homelessness

1105
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 3: race off top of my head. Things like three or

1106
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 3: four times at the very least more likely across the

1107
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 3: entire transpopulation to be homeless than people. And like you

1108
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 3: can just fucking see that if you know trans people.

1109
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, fucking everyone's spent a bunch of time

1110
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 3: being homeless, and like, you know, that's just the conditions

1111
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 3: of this. And you know, this is the thing that like,

1112
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 3: as you the listener, like it is possible for this.

1113
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to fucking be like this, Like it doesn't.

1114
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 3: You have the power in your hands, like to keep

1115
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 3: people off the street and like with a roof above

1116
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 3: their head. And you can do this by clicking the

1117
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 3: links in the.

1118
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 7: Description from our co O. Thank you for repeatedly mentioning

1119
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 7: that aspect. I think also, this does, this classynemic does

1120
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 7: shape the type of trans coverage you see two quite

1121
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 7: a bit. We did, sir, importing one time on the

1122
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 7: city of Ashville spending over a million dollars to the

1123
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 7: Salvation Army, which is basically a queer and transphobic cult.

1124
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 7: But that piece is reported very differently from if it

1125
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 7: been reported by say a trans journalist who'd been very

1126
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 7: well off their entire lives. You know, because a lot

1127
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 7: of us people in our co op have either been

1128
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 7: close to or been homeless before, and so we were

1129
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 7: able to bring in the experience of knowing that if

1130
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 7: you are a trans homeless person, the Salvation Army isn't

1131
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 7: letting you in or is one of the worst possible

1132
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 7: shelters you can end up in. And that piece was

1133
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 7: written and read very differently because we were drawing from

1134
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 7: that from that on the ground experience.

1135
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, on that note, I've I've written so many stories

1136
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 6: that have been about the poverty rates of trans people

1137
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 6: and what we've all gone through. I used to be

1138
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 6: a daily contributor for LGBTQ Nation. They were one of

1139
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 6: the outlooks that I was trying to crank out as

1140
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 6: many articles as I could for and the editors lovely people.

1141
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 6: There no issues with them, Lovely folks. Yeah, they just

1142
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 6: they don't. They didn't have enough money to begin with

1143
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 6: to pay me enough, so you're gonna do. I remember

1144
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 6: working on a story or something like the summer of

1145
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 6: last year for them where I was I was writing

1146
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 6: about some new report that came out talking about just

1147
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 6: like poverty rates, job discrimination rates of trans people. And

1148
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 6: one thing I've noticed is, like David mentioned, there is

1149
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 6: a huge disconnect between even if you have like wealthier

1150
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 6: trans people write about an issue versus those who are

1151
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 6: in poverty. Like a lot of the sources I had

1152
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 6: for specific article. I don't remember that headline because I

1153
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 6: wrote like five hundred or goalster q Nation last year.

1154
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 6: But a lot of the sources I used for that article,

1155
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 6: and like other ones like it, are like big nonprofits.

1156
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 6: And you know, obviously your mileage may very depending on

1157
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 6: whur's nonprofit. But most of the folk who like were

1158
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 6: writing these reports or who were doing the press releases

1159
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 6: and stuff like that, you could just kind of tell

1160
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 6: that they maybe did not have quite the same experiences

1161
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 6: as say, trans people who have been homeless, trans people

1162
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 6: who have had to deprive themselves of medical care because

1163
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 6: they couldn't afford it, trans people who have had to

1164
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 6: go without food because not enough money. And it's almost

1165
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 6: like a lot of people who didn't have to go

1166
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 6: through this stuff like intellectualize it more. They see it

1167
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 6: as like these abstract numbers and they know it's bad,

1168
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:58,439
Speaker 6: but they don't have that like individual connection. Like even

1169
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 6: many of the nonprofit folks, a lot of their friends,

1170
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 6: even their social circles are all going to be on average,

1171
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 6: you know, I can't say for every single person. Obviously,

1172
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 6: like on average more wealthy, more stable, they have family

1173
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 6: to back them, up. They have plenty of options, and

1174
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 6: I don't know, rambling a bit, but there's just a disconnect,

1175
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 6: you know, whenever reaching out to folk who won the

1176
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 6: birth lottery a little bit.

1177
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1178
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 8: One of the most the most expensive article that we

1179
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 8: did Mady cast News earlier last month was about Maryland

1180
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 8: prisons and how they're basically torture chambers for trans women,

1181
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 8: as most prisons are, but it seems like they're especially

1182
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 8: bad in Maryland, you know, despite it being supposedly a

1183
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 8: safe trans to date, you know, seventy percent Democrats. And

1184
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 8: that was a kind of example of just like how unprofitable,

1185
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 8: how possible to not just unprofitable, because when you think unprofitable,

1186
01:02:58,080 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 8: it's like, oh, you're not making money.

1187
01:02:59,280 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 3: It's not about that.

1188
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 8: It's like if you're losing like eighty percent of the

1189
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 8: money you put into these articles because it takes so

1190
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 8: many Like I'm a very strong believer of paying people,

1191
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 8: you know, a living wage. So I was paying the

1192
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 8: journalists like well over twenty five dollars an hour for

1193
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 8: you know, dozens of hours of work, and that adds

1194
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 8: up really fast. And then court fee like pacer fees,

1195
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 8: all these other costs are adding up and it ends

1196
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 8: up being like around the thousand dollars for the single article,

1197
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 8: and it's a really important article that you know, raise

1198
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 8: a lot of awareness. Everyone in Maryland in the trans circle,

1199
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 8: they're talking about it. But at the same time, it's

1200
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 8: basically a charity product, right, This is why I'm trying

1201
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 8: to become a nonprofit because there's simply no other way

1202
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 8: to be able to fund this stuff. There's no capitalist

1203
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 8: model for reporting on trans women in prison. It's not

1204
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 8: a it's not something that people are you know, like

1205
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 8: I definitely get there's a lot of people who support

1206
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 8: us out of the goodness of their hearts, and that's

1207
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 8: really nice, but even that is not enough because of

1208
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 8: that's just how it is. There's just not enough people

1209
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 8: who care about these issues, especially the more intersectional it is.

1210
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 8: You know, even a lot of people in the queer

1211
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 8: community aren't as worried necessarily about people in prison. They're

1212
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 8: more aggorry about people not in prisons. And you know,

1213
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 8: of course everyone matters, but I think it's really important

1214
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 8: to focus on those most intersectional issues because when you

1215
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 8: really think about it, like prisons are basically you know,

1216
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 8: where they do everything they want to do to transform

1217
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 8: and aren't in prison. That's where they get to do

1218
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 8: all of it, and no one's looking on, no one's

1219
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 8: watching them, no one's holding them accountable. But yeah, I

1220
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 8: think it's basically a complete failing of capitalism. Like it's

1221
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 8: there's definitely be some outlets that, you know, maybe they

1222
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 8: could be doing better, but at the same time, a

1223
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 8: lot of the time it's basically, you know, be really shitty.

1224
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 4: The people are closed down.

1225
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 3: And neither of those are great options.

1226
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 8: And personally I would close down, but I can't tell

1227
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 8: other people what to do. And I think really it's

1228
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 8: a systemic issue that society doesn't care about us, that

1229
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 8: the sists, people who really should be funding these things

1230
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 8: and trying to solve these issues, just pretend like we

1231
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 8: don't exist, and you know, go go out of their

1232
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 8: way to even erase our presence even when we do,

1233
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 8: you know, create national needs.

1234
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 3: You know, I think part of part of the difficulty

1235
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 3: of it, right, and this specifically the way the transit

1236
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 3: she's functioned about. Class and journalism are a microcosm. It's

1237
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 3: like the most intense version of the stuff that's happening

1238
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 3: to the entire journalism industry, right or like, you know,

1239
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 3: part of what we're seeing is like is just that

1240
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 3: it's been the destruction of local news, right and and

1241
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 3: the product of this is that the only people who

1242
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 3: can be journalists are like a bunch of fucking rich

1243
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 3: dipshits and you know, like, yeah, you've all fucking read

1244
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 3: like New York Times columnists. Is like the platforming a

1245
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 3: genocide denier today, right, like that, and that's that's sort

1246
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 3: of the product of this. And it means that like

1247
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 3: unless like literally like people like you, the fucking listener,

1248
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 3: and I guess doesn't apply to you if you're you know,

1249
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 3: like statistically a good number of you are like you

1250
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 3: are also transgender and you make like fucking nine dollars

1251
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 3: an hour like running a forklift or something like. This

1252
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 3: is not this is not on you, Like I know

1253
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 3: much of you are gonna be like, holy shit, I

1254
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 3: actually give funy these people. It's like, okay, but like

1255
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 3: this stuff is only possible if people are actually fucking

1256
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 3: willing to support it, like until we can like fundamentally

1257
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 3: change the way that the entire political and economic system

1258
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 3: works in this country and in this world. And until then,

1259
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, like it's this is a fucking problem

1260
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 3: for like us here too, cause you know, like again,

1261
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 3: like I got fucking lucky, Like I am extremely dissimilar,

1262
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 3: Like I am the transferman, like one of the transfomens

1263
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 3: who you will hear from the most, and I have

1264
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 3: like a stable job. I haven't been homeless and I

1265
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 3: haven't done sex work, and this makes me completely unlike

1266
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 3: a huge portion of trans people, especially transforms, right, and yeah,

1267
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, I fucking colors is the way I

1268
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 3: do this shit in ways that like I don't see

1269
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 3: because like I haven't had to like do this shit,

1270
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 3: and this is a real fucking problem. The only way

1271
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,959
Speaker 3: that it can not be like this is if people

1272
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 3: are actually willing to support the people who understand these

1273
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 3: things because they've fucking gone through it. And so your

1274
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 3: options are, like all of our stuff gets reported on

1275
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 3: by Jesse Sentall and we all fucking die, or we

1276
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 3: find trans journalism and we fight them and we all

1277
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 3: live in a fucking better world.

1278
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 6: My backup option if trans journalism doesn't work. You mentioned

1279
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 6: sex work is quite literally to write furry smut and

1280
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 6: hope that pays.

1281
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 7: The last year, The Ashville Blade marked our tenth anniversary

1282
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 7: so I think I think that is worth mentioning too,

1283
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 7: Like I think sometimes things and they truly are precarious,

1284
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 7: they truly are difficult in some ways, they're only getting

1285
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:53,919
Speaker 7: more precarious and more difficult. But at the same time,

1286
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 7: despite our journalists being arrested, despite being kind of like

1287
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 7: targeted and ignored by a lot of liberals and even

1288
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 7: some leftists in town, we're still here. We're still doing journalism.

1289
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 7: We just put out a really powerful investigation about you know,

1290
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 7: more mouth yet more mouthfeasance in the police department.

1291
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 4: So so yeah, like it.

1292
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 6: Can be done.

1293
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 7: It's not impossible, and as tight as things are, there

1294
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:19,599
Speaker 7: is also a lot of resilience and we do get

1295
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 7: a lot of very genuine support. I do think that's

1296
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 7: worth emphasizing too. So like there is strengthened, there is

1297
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:27,680
Speaker 7: some hope here. Yeah, and you know, and again it's

1298
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 7: like it's it's not impossible. It just requires it requires

1299
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 7: a bunch of fucking work from the trans people who

1300
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 7: are doing it. And then also it requires you know,

1301
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 7: putting on my fucking MPR pledge to my voice. It

1302
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 7: requires viewers like you to you know, it requires people

1303
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 7: to care enough about it to support it and make

1304
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 7: it exist. And yeah, I think that's a that's a

1305
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 7: kind of good note to start sort of wrapping up.

1306
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 7: Do you have anything else that you want to make

1307
01:08:55,800 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 7: sure you get in? Yeah, before we move too plugs.

1308
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 8: I guess so yeah for me as I'm also kind

1309
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 8: of in that spectrum of like being a little bit

1310
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 8: more privileged as far as trans women go financially. And

1311
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 8: my message to other people who make especially since if

1312
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 8: you're a SIS person you make over one hundred thousand dollars,

1313
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 8: you're comfortable and you're feeling bad listening to this, you know,

1314
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 8: go give a trans person money, Go give my relazine money,

1315
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 8: Go give David Forbes money, Like we have to. We

1316
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 8: really need everyone to start pitching in, especially people who

1317
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 8: aren't trans, and we really need like it's it's literally

1318
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 8: life saving the money. Like, and I think one thing

1319
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 8: to consider is, you know, one thousand dollars to someone

1320
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:40,680
Speaker 8: who makes a lot of money is completely different from

1321
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,679
Speaker 8: one thousand dollars to someone who is like a month

1322
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 8: away from being homeless.

1323
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 3: And twenty dollars functions like that.

1324
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 8: Like, yeah, twenty dollars even like no, I know so

1325
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 8: many people like one thousand dollars, like they'll go, they'll

1326
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:57,679
Speaker 8: spend a thousand dollars in a couple of weeks on restaurants. Right,

1327
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 8: And then there's people there's trans of a thousand dollars,

1328
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 8: it's like changed their life forever.

1329
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 3: The look on mirror's face, Like those people spend and

1330
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 3: I don't even do twenty thousand dollars a year on.

1331
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 7: Sushi, Holy shit, having worked in the service industry, Yeah.

1332
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 6: I feel bad when I spend like twenty bucks on

1333
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 6: Popeyes once a week.

1334
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:21,919
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, exactly.

1335
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 8: So if you spend twenty thousand dollars a year on sushi,

1336
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 8: please spend nineteen thousand dollars a year this year and said,

1337
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 8: and give one thousand dollars to transperson.

1338
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 3: That's my advice for you. Double the income of a

1339
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 3: transperson today. This is also, like, you know, part of

1340
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about with like the Great Depression, Like

1341
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 3: we don't live in the same economy that everyone else does,

1342
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 3: Like it is literally a different fucking world. And the

1343
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 3: more fucked you are, like down the fucking scale of

1344
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 3: like of like trans poverty, the more it's like you

1345
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 3: literally like the reality that like the people live in

1346
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 3: is just completely alien to you, it's like, what the.

1347
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 6: Fun want that kind of money?

1348
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 3: You're a David Diah Do you have anything else you

1349
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 3: want to say before.

1350
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:10,640
Speaker 1: You like that?

1351
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 6: Please support trend journalists, please, Dear God. Please, everyone I

1352
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 6: know who is primarily a journalist for work is broke.

1353
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 6: We need the money, please, Dear God.

1354
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 7: Yeah I would, Yeah, I'd add to that. But another

1355
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 7: thing is, look, you should support trans jernals because trans

1356
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,600
Speaker 7: people deserve to you know, to be supported and to

1357
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:41,240
Speaker 7: be able to make a living. Also, frankly, we're really

1358
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,439
Speaker 7: good at this, like generally as a whole, like we

1359
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 7: have a lot more perspective I think on how this

1360
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 7: healthscape social structure actually does and doesn't work, and a

1361
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 7: lot more determination to actually tell the truth in general.

1362
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:59,639
Speaker 7: And so you know, dollars to the actual blade for example,

1363
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 7: or to or tamra ortomaticasts like they go to journalism. Yeah, yeah,

1364
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 7: you know, they're not going to like some baroque hierarchy

1365
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 7: of you know, of gentry administrators or something or CEOs like.

1366
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 7: It goes to journalism. It goes to actual interesting reporting

1367
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 7: and views and things that need to be said. So

1368
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 7: if people are even just looking if it's some journalism.

1369
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 7: It is something they care about or think needs to

1370
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 7: be stronger. This is the way to do it.

1371
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like, like this is also a directly political

1372
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 3: thing because like the word that you'll do, like I

1373
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 3: have literally watched it change the sort of political landscape

1374
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 3: like that. That's just that's just like a thing that happens,

1375
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 3: you know, Like, and I think we're all we're all

1376
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 3: very cynical about sort of the power of like the

1377
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 3: truth to do anything, because it requires people to act

1378
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:49,639
Speaker 3: on it. But you know, if you don't know anything

1379
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 3: is happening, it is not possible to act on something. Yeah, So,

1380
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 3: like you know, you are simultaneously you were supporting, like

1381
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 3: you're supporting trans people in like the most vicarious position

1382
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 3: you've been in in fucking ages. You are like supporting

1383
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 3: your supporting journalism and you are not even poking a stick.

1384
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 3: You are helping build a lance to like stab into

1385
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,679
Speaker 3: the side of the people who are like destroying this world.

1386
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think that's fucking important. So if if

1387
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 3: people want to support you, where do they go? Where

1388
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 3: do they go?

1389
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:20,600
Speaker 5: Go? Go go go.

1390
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, So if you want to support me, go to

1391
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 6: the free radical dot org. That that that is my newsletter.

1392
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 6: There's stuff to subscribe and and and give money. You

1393
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 6: can do a free subscription, you know, if you especially

1394
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:39,160
Speaker 6: for Grope, please do a free subscription, like we don't.

1395
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 6: I don't need your twenty dollars. I'll give you my

1396
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 6: twenty dollars please. And also I have a cofi if

1397
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 6: you know need to like a one time saying, it's

1398
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 6: mirror Lousine. I'm the only one only mirrors and Losine

1399
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:57,600
Speaker 6: on there. And if you subscribe, you're supporting some of

1400
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 6: the only trans anarchy national news coverage. Basically, and every

1401
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 6: single article I write, I try to find a way

1402
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 6: to shoot order anarchist theory and what fucking I'm sucking.

1403
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 6: Like my first article, I was like, hey, go check

1404
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:14,559
Speaker 6: out crime Thing, the one who I published yesterday. I

1405
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:18,200
Speaker 6: just I went on a whole like page long tangent

1406
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 6: where I'm like, okay, cool, So this is what more

1407
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 6: liberal people are saying. But here's go read Lorenzo komboa

1408
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 6: urban Go read coruery and anarchism, Go read this ship and

1409
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 6: yeah that's I just want to shoehorn anarchist theory and

1410
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,839
Speaker 6: get more people will be anarchists. Yeah.

1411
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, So if you ever want to support Maddie cast News.

1412
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 8: To be clear, I don't take any income from the website,

1413
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 8: actually having plant plans to put lots of money into it,

1414
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 8: but all of your money will be going towards supporting

1415
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 8: other trans journalists. So that's one way to you know,

1416
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 8: contribute to the cause. So or even if you just

1417
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,600
Speaker 8: give me your email, I appreciate that too. But my

1418
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:00,640
Speaker 8: website is maddiecast dot com and that's only one d

1419
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:05,599
Speaker 8: so madycast dot com and round blueblis Guy too. It's

1420
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:08,640
Speaker 8: the same website named and yeah, thank you.

1421
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 7: People can find our co ops work at Ashvillblade dot

1422
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 7: com and there's a giant link to our Patreon there.

1423
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 7: For fifteen bucks a month, you can get a lovely

1424
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:21,519
Speaker 7: gentry Tears mug, which we're particularly proud of.

1425
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:24,679
Speaker 3: It's so cool it rules.

1426
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 6: Thank you for the adorsement.

1427
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:30,639
Speaker 7: And at the end of each article we have addition

1428
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 7: to our Patreon a link if folks just want to

1429
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:35,640
Speaker 7: send us some one time support, we'll certainly put that

1430
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,920
Speaker 7: to use as well, and if they would like to

1431
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 7: see some my personal writings about trans survival as well

1432
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:46,479
Speaker 7: as some anarchists looks at various periods of history Patreon

1433
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 7: dot com slash David Forbes, if that is, if that

1434
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:51,000
Speaker 7: is more of their cup of tea.

1435
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 3: Statistically, in our audience, I know there are a bunch

1436
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 3: of you whose special interest either is or could be

1437
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 3: medieval peasant uprisings. You are not going to find better

1438
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 3: writing on medieval and uprisings anywhere else. Yes, there is

1439
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 3: a limit to the extent to which you can actually

1440
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 3: talk about the structural problems that are happening, and you

1441
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 3: can't fucking talk about how to solve them. And this

1442
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 3: is also partially why I have a coxsault journalistic. I

1443
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 3: kind of jokingly refuse to call myself a journalist because,

1444
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:20,800
Speaker 3: like I fucking I refuse to be associated with like

1445
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:24,679
Speaker 3: all of those goddamn Atlantic motherfuckers who in institutional jobs

1446
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 3: to endanger trans people like you know.

1447
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:28,839
Speaker 6: But also ground fascists.

1448
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 3: Though that's true, that's true, yeah, you know, because it's

1449
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 3: like we're the ones actually fucking doing this shit. But

1450
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 3: also yeah, like this is you know, to do my one,

1451
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 3: to do my one Karl Marx quote. It's like, you know,

1452
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 3: like philosophy has hitherto only sought to describe the world.

1453
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 3: The point is to change it. And that's a thing

1454
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 3: that we could that like, we like have the power

1455
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 3: to collectively do together. And that's something that like the

1456
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 3: New York Times does not want you to know that

1457
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 3: you can change things.

1458
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 6: Now. Yeah, they to borrow a term that David has

1459
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:05,599
Speaker 6: recently gotten into my vocabulary. A bunch the gentry really

1460
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 6: fucking do not like the idea of solutions. Their idea

1461
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 6: of a solution is go vote for Pete Boudage Egg,

1462
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 6: go sign the acl YUS petition.

1463
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to read this, this fucking post that

1464
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:20,799
Speaker 3: I saw forbout Kendra Rights about the New York Times,

1465
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,479
Speaker 3: I think a lot about the top New York Times editor,

1466
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 3: who I told the historians were warning were in a

1467
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 3: similar period to the ramp up to the Holocaust and

1468
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 3: maybe we could look back and see what NYT had

1469
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 3: done wrong. Did not repeat his mistakes. He shrugged. New

1470
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:35,680
Speaker 3: York Times didn't really cover the Holocaust.

1471
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1472
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 3: What So don't support these people, support the people who

1473
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 3: actually do this shit, you know, Like I go, I'm

1474
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:46,680
Speaker 3: gonna I'm gonna make a kind of comparison. But it

1475
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 3: was like, at the time this shit was happening, there

1476
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 3: was a bunch of very good coverage of the Holocaust

1477
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 3: of what was happening, but it was because it was

1478
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:55,719
Speaker 3: all happening from fucking like because it was like largely

1479
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:58,799
Speaker 3: Jewish radicals who were doing it. All that shit fucking

1480
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 3: got ignored and shit that could have been fucking prevented wasn't.

1481
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 3: And we don't have to live in a world where

1482
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 3: that shit fucking happens, and we can make it not

1483
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:12,000
Speaker 3: be like that. But like the structural, the structural like

1484
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 3: structural dature of the media is one of the ways

1485
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:17,680
Speaker 3: that this fucking happens. And we don't have to let

1486
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 3: the New York Times do this again.

1487
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 7: No, And that's a good reminder there is another way

1488
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:22,240
Speaker 7: with journalism.

1489
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 6: You know.

1490
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 7: Ido Well's was able to detail the extent and horror

1491
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:30,599
Speaker 7: of American segregation and lynching and also called for people

1492
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:31,840
Speaker 7: to shoot the clan.

1493
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the.

1494
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 7: You know, the modern idea that you have to be

1495
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:39,320
Speaker 7: detached andeverably attached from pretty gentry perspective. You know, there's

1496
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:41,679
Speaker 7: a world elsewhere, there's other ways to do things.

1497
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:04,719
Speaker 10: Welcome to another episode, if it can happen here, I

1498
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 10: am your guest co host Bridget Pod, host of There

1499
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 10: are no girls on the Internet. I'm joined by the

1500
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:14,800
Speaker 10: lovely Molly, host of award winning podcast on Pool Zone,

1501
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 10: Weird Little Guys.

1502
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:18,840
Speaker 5: Molly, how you doing great? Glad to be here in

1503
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:20,000
Speaker 5: bridget Okay.

1504
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:22,479
Speaker 10: So I wish we were here to talk about all

1505
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:25,640
Speaker 10: the exciting stuff going on in your life. But I

1506
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:27,880
Speaker 10: wanted to bring this topic to the it could happen

1507
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,559
Speaker 10: here audience because I live in the district. I know

1508
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:32,559
Speaker 10: you're a Virginia Gail, so you might know a little

1509
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:34,479
Speaker 10: bit more about how it works in the district than

1510
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:37,200
Speaker 10: your average person. But I don't know that people really

1511
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:41,120
Speaker 10: understand what is happening to residents of the District of

1512
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 10: Columbia like myself. So I live in DC. I've lived

1513
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 10: here for most of my life. I have a lot

1514
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 10: of like hometown pride. This is not just where I

1515
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 10: happen to live. It's like my city, my home.

1516
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:51,559
Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean?

1517
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 11: And you don't have representation, It's true, right, It's something

1518
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:56,600
Speaker 11: that infuriates me.

1519
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,160
Speaker 10: And so you know, the first thing to know about

1520
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 10: DC is that it's it's not a state, so that

1521
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 10: means that what happens federally has a huge impact on

1522
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:07,639
Speaker 10: the day to day minutia of the life of people

1523
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:08,799
Speaker 10: like me who live in the district.

1524
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 5: If you don't live in the district, when it comes

1525
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:12,440
Speaker 5: to decisions.

1526
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:15,560
Speaker 10: About how your like local tax dollars are spent, that

1527
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:19,280
Speaker 10: usually lies with like your state and local leaders. That's

1528
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 10: not really the case for me and the other like

1529
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:24,840
Speaker 10: over half a million residents of the district. All of

1530
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 10: this has made worse but the fact that we are

1531
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:29,840
Speaker 10: essentially disenfranchised just like you said, right, all of this

1532
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:32,400
Speaker 10: stuff is playing out in our home, like all of

1533
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 10: these big national conversations are happening in our own backyard,

1534
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 10: and we arguably have less electoral power and agency because

1535
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 10: we aren't a state. Fun fact, DC residents only got

1536
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 10: the right to vote in nineteen.

1537
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:45,840
Speaker 5: Sixty one in presidential elections.

1538
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 3: What I know, Like I didn't know that we have.

1539
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 10: Not been voting in presidential elections for very long when

1540
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:53,960
Speaker 10: you think about it, in the fullness of time. So

1541
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 10: when people are like, oh, you know, call your congress person,

1542
01:20:57,560 --> 01:21:00,760
Speaker 10: call your lesson official to oppose x y Z, we

1543
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 10: really have like nobody to call our congressional representative.

1544
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 3: Eleanor Holmes.

1545
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 10: Norton cannot vote on bills that are being considered by

1546
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:09,719
Speaker 10: the full House, and so we really just like don't

1547
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,120
Speaker 10: have us say whenever those big campaigns are going on,

1548
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 10: I'm like, oh, it must be nice to have even

1549
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 10: if that person ignores you, it must be nice to

1550
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 10: have someone you can call.

1551
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 3: Wouldn't know.

1552
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:20,800
Speaker 11: It almost seems disrespectful to be like, oh, yeah, you

1553
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:24,440
Speaker 11: guys have a representative. But it doesn't do anything exactly.

1554
01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 11: It's just vibes.

1555
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 5: It's just vibes.

1556
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:31,400
Speaker 10: So all of this matters for Trump's return to my

1557
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:35,040
Speaker 10: hometown because as President, Trump has a lot more authority

1558
01:21:35,080 --> 01:21:37,879
Speaker 10: to dictate how things are run locally for DC residents

1559
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:40,559
Speaker 10: like myself. You know, we all know that the Trump

1560
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 10: administration is hell bent on making all of our lives worse.

1561
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 10: But imagine if Trump was also in charge of how

1562
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:49,880
Speaker 10: your local police force in your city policed your city.

1563
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 5: Like that would be horrible, right, That.

1564
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,080
Speaker 10: Sounds like a nightmare, And that is that threat is

1565
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 10: like literally the reality that we are faced with here

1566
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 10: in DC. So there's been some pretty big changes this

1567
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:05,560
Speaker 10: time around in the Trump administration. During his first administration,

1568
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,800
Speaker 10: I feel like Trump largely ignored DC like he would

1569
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 10: pick a fight every now and then, but he didn't

1570
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:13,719
Speaker 10: really seem the meddle and how DC was run like locally,

1571
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,120
Speaker 10: That does not mean that he was not like out

1572
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 10: in the district doing terrible things, which he very much was.

1573
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 10: You might recall in twenty twenty, during the racial Justice

1574
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:26,639
Speaker 10: uprisings in the wake of George Floyd's death, Trump cleared

1575
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:29,360
Speaker 10: protesters using chemical agents so that he could go out

1576
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:30,920
Speaker 10: in front of Saint John's Church and.

1577
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 5: Like post upside down Bible Bible.

1578
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 3: Remember that distressing.

1579
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:37,680
Speaker 5: It was distressing.

1580
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,560
Speaker 10: I was there that day, and I'll say, like it

1581
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 10: was like genuinely very excessive. I'm not going to get

1582
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 10: into the nitty gritty of it, but in the aftermath

1583
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:50,080
Speaker 10: of that event, internal reports made it clear that like

1584
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 10: it wasn't exactly clear what happened and underw what authority,

1585
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:56,600
Speaker 10: Like was it DC's local police force, Metropolitan PD, was

1586
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 10: it federal Park Police?

1587
01:22:57,960 --> 01:22:58,040
Speaker 6: Like?

1588
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:03,120
Speaker 10: It really underscored the of DC locally versus the federal government.

1589
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:05,759
Speaker 11: And it doesn't help that there's half a dozen different

1590
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:08,519
Speaker 11: police forces operating on any given block of d C.

1591
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 10: Oh my god, girl, Like you genuinely never know when

1592
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 10: you see flashing blue and red lights, you genuinely.

1593
01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:18,759
Speaker 5: It's like this could be federal, Like this could be federal.

1594
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 11: You never know if I just committed a federal traffic

1595
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 11: violation exactly.

1596
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,519
Speaker 10: And so the New York Times actually described that event

1597
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,800
Speaker 10: as quote a burst of violence unlike any scene in

1598
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 10: the shadow of the White House in generations, and possibly

1599
01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:35,400
Speaker 10: one of the defining moments of the Trump residency. And

1600
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:38,639
Speaker 10: so I remember that as like a moment that played

1601
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 10: out nationally, but also it felt very local and like

1602
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:46,600
Speaker 10: I think it underscored how we really felt the impacts

1603
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:50,599
Speaker 10: of how militarized the city could locally get during Trump's

1604
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:53,519
Speaker 10: first administration. So that was like something that really sticks

1605
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:53,880
Speaker 10: out to me.

1606
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:57,920
Speaker 11: I mean, I I rarely visit DC because I'm afraid

1607
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:00,840
Speaker 11: of traffic, Like just the act of driving through northern

1608
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 11: Virginia too yet to d C is too frightening for me,

1609
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:05,639
Speaker 11: So I try not to go. But I think people

1610
01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 11: who don't live in the area don't think of DC

1611
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:09,880
Speaker 11: as a place where people live. They don't think of

1612
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:13,040
Speaker 11: it as anyone's home. Right, It's like Congress lives there,

1613
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 11: the laws live there, but like a lot of people

1614
01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:18,240
Speaker 11: live there, people who have nothing to do with the

1615
01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 11: federal government, mostly a lot of black people.

1616
01:24:20,360 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 3: Honestly, I mean.

1617
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 10: DC used to be called chocolate City for a reason.

1618
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 10: These things were more like like a latte city. But

1619
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:31,280
Speaker 10: exactly I can confirm that people don't think of the

1620
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,559
Speaker 10: you know, over half a million DC residents who have

1621
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:37,040
Speaker 10: nothing to do with the federal government sometimes who nothing

1622
01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:39,719
Speaker 10: with politics, who just like live here and is our home,

1623
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 10: Like I was born in DC, like this is I

1624
01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 10: didn't just you know, move here to work in politics,

1625
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 10: like my family can be traced back to our roots

1626
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 10: in the district through generations. And so I have to

1627
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 10: be in my bonnet about this because I feel very unseen,

1628
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 10: and I think the way that the Trump administration is

1629
01:24:56,120 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 10: playing out, I feel like the reporting really can sometimes

1630
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 10: overlook the way that this is playing out in the

1631
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:07,799
Speaker 10: lie the life of your average you know, DC resident

1632
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 10: who might have nothing to do with politics or you know,

1633
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 10: the federal government.

1634
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:13,600
Speaker 5: Like seventh grader's trying to get to middle school. Exactly

1635
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 5: that exactly that.

1636
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 10: So during Trump's first administration, after the incident at Saint

1637
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 10: John's Church, our mayor, DC's mayor, Muriel Bowser.

1638
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:26,360
Speaker 5: She's still the mayor. She's still the mayor. She's the mayor.

1639
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 5: She's a young girl, old and strong.

1640
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:33,160
Speaker 10: She erected what became known as Black Lives Matter Plaza,

1641
01:25:33,479 --> 01:25:36,599
Speaker 10: where she wrote black Lives Matter in like big yellow

1642
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:37,960
Speaker 10: letters outside of the White House.

1643
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:41,639
Speaker 5: You remember this. I've had some unpleasant experiences in that zone.

1644
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you and me both.

1645
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:45,800
Speaker 5: This could be a separate conversation.

1646
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:48,600
Speaker 10: And so I will say when she did that, it

1647
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 10: was largely like a symbolic move, and a lot of

1648
01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:53,679
Speaker 10: DC activists thought the mayor was kind of co opting

1649
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:56,800
Speaker 10: or racial justice ethos that she didn't really embody and practiced.

1650
01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:59,559
Speaker 5: But I do think that that really is at.

1651
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:02,920
Speaker 10: The tone for the mayor's relationship with Trump during his

1652
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 10: first term. Like she was defiant. She was someone who

1653
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:08,559
Speaker 10: was going to stand up to him publicly. And something

1654
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 10: to know about DC's Mayor Muriel Bauser is that Jakinda

1655
01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 10: has two modes. Defiant, like the version of herself that

1656
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:18,599
Speaker 10: painted Black Lives Matter outside of the Trump White House,

1657
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 10: and then sort of diplomatic, right like somebody who like

1658
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:24,640
Speaker 10: wants to find common ground, which I think is the

1659
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:27,000
Speaker 10: is the version of her that we're seeing this time

1660
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 10: around that is very different than how she was the

1661
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:32,880
Speaker 10: last time around, like she started trump second term sort

1662
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:35,680
Speaker 10: of counting the goals they have in common, and like

1663
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 10: she met with him even before he was in office.

1664
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:41,519
Speaker 10: And so I have a lot of critiques about DC's marriage,

1665
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 10: like anybody would have their political leader.

1666
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 5: But I do think it is.

1667
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:48,640
Speaker 10: Important that folks understand that she is navigating something that

1668
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:51,880
Speaker 10: literally no other elected official in the United States has

1669
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:55,040
Speaker 10: to because of DC's lack of statehood. Like we our

1670
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:58,120
Speaker 10: city is uniquely threatened by Trump, and she knows this,

1671
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 10: and Trump knows this, and so he really has to

1672
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 10: like walk a tight rope, greased and shit if you will.

1673
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:09,719
Speaker 10: She's like navigating this public relationship with an unstable, lying

1674
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 10: fascist and has to do so in a way that's

1675
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 10: going to end up with like what's best for the city.

1676
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:16,920
Speaker 5: So you could say whatever you want about Mayor Bouser.

1677
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:20,360
Speaker 10: Like I certainly do, but this is a complicated thing

1678
01:27:20,439 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 10: to navigate. I do not advocate for anybody complying in

1679
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 10: advance with a fascist, but in this situation, I do

1680
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:31,840
Speaker 10: think it's fair to ask life, well, would being defiant

1681
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:35,120
Speaker 10: toward Trump make things worse for DC residents like myself?

1682
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:37,280
Speaker 11: But it results in martial law in the city.

1683
01:27:37,120 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 10: Exactly exactly, So like, I don't like it, but I

1684
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:42,599
Speaker 10: get it. I guess if there was like a mantra

1685
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 10: for my feelings on this, it's like, I don't like

1686
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:46,799
Speaker 10: it at all, but I get it.

1687
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:50,280
Speaker 5: It's a no win situation. It is a no win situation.

1688
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 10: And you know, Trump spent even when he was on

1689
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:57,479
Speaker 10: the campaign trail before he was president, he talked this

1690
01:27:57,520 --> 01:27:59,679
Speaker 10: time around about how he was planning to take over

1691
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:02,639
Speaker 10: this and because DC is not a state, like any

1692
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:06,000
Speaker 10: president does have the authority to interfere with how DC

1693
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:08,599
Speaker 10: is run. Like any president can take over the police

1694
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:11,040
Speaker 10: department and the powers of the mayor and the DC

1695
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 10: City Council. Any president has the power to federalize DC's

1696
01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:18,800
Speaker 10: like local police force, metropolitan police, deputize the national Guard,

1697
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 10: and give law enforcement powers in DC, and activate the

1698
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 10: military and federal law enforcement agencies such as the park

1699
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 10: Police in DC.

1700
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 5: So oh, I didn't need so.

1701
01:28:28,360 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 11: Like the governor of any state has control of their

1702
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:33,839
Speaker 11: national guard, but DC has its own national guard, right, correct,

1703
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:36,040
Speaker 11: and they don't have a governor, so those are the

1704
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:37,120
Speaker 11: president's national guard.

1705
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:41,040
Speaker 5: Correct. That's not great, So it's not great. It's not great.

1706
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 10: And you know the prospect of just just like let

1707
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,719
Speaker 10: that sink in the prospect of Trump having its own

1708
01:28:47,800 --> 01:28:51,400
Speaker 10: military and police force in the district. Like I cannot

1709
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:54,080
Speaker 10: tell you how much this terrifies me. Like I cannot

1710
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 10: stress to listeners how much of a shit hitting the

1711
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:58,519
Speaker 10: fan moment this would be for the city. To give

1712
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:00,559
Speaker 10: you a sense, like I have a go bag, and

1713
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:02,840
Speaker 10: I like, get the fuck out plan for that scenario

1714
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:03,400
Speaker 10: playing out.

1715
01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:04,760
Speaker 3: Virginia's so close.

1716
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,559
Speaker 10: I no, I mean yeah, honestly, anybody in the DMV,

1717
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 10: if you're in Maryland, Virginia, you should all be thinking

1718
01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:23,680
Speaker 10: about this. So Trump has continued to like pressure the

1719
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:26,800
Speaker 10: mayor and threatening to like take over if she will

1720
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:29,599
Speaker 10: not do the things that he says, things like clean

1721
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:30,280
Speaker 10: up the city.

1722
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:32,360
Speaker 5: Trump notified Mayor Bowser that she.

1723
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:35,160
Speaker 10: Has to clean up all the unsightly homeless encampments in

1724
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 10: the district, especially around federal buildings.

1725
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:39,240
Speaker 3: If she is not capable of doing.

1726
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:40,800
Speaker 5: So, we will be forced to do it for her,

1727
01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 5: he said.

1728
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:44,120
Speaker 10: And so far, her strategy has really been one of

1729
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:49,280
Speaker 10: like quiet appeasement, so that Black Lives Matter plaza that

1730
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:52,559
Speaker 10: she erected in defiance during his first term that came.

1731
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 5: Down, did it really they'd painted over it? I think

1732
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 5: they they dismantled it.

1733
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:00,080
Speaker 10: I think that they were like, Oh, we're going to

1734
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:03,960
Speaker 10: like take it up so that it can go someplace else,

1735
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:07,559
Speaker 10: but we're removing it from this part of the city, if.

1736
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 5: That make sense.

1737
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:10,760
Speaker 11: That's I mean, that's a symbolic moment, right, just like

1738
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:13,040
Speaker 11: pouring the asphalt over the words black Lives Matter.

1739
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:16,600
Speaker 10: Yeah, And I do really think it it underscores this

1740
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 10: moment that we're in right now.

1741
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 5: Where it does, I mean, I'm curious for your thoughts.

1742
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 10: It does sort of feel like a pendulum swing in

1743
01:30:23,320 --> 01:30:28,440
Speaker 10: some ways where all of these like largely symbolic gestures

1744
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:33,840
Speaker 10: are now like being bulldozed over, oftentimes like voluntarily, like

1745
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:36,120
Speaker 10: without even really being pressured into doing so.

1746
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:36,840
Speaker 6: Right.

1747
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:39,200
Speaker 11: I guess it's hard, right because like painting Black Lives

1748
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:42,200
Speaker 11: Matter on the sidewalk did nothing for black people, right,

1749
01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:44,799
Speaker 11: Like did that help you to that materially improve your life?

1750
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:46,280
Speaker 5: No, it was purely symbolic.

1751
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:50,080
Speaker 11: But negating that symbolic gesture I think does a lot

1752
01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 11: more harm than never having had it, right, because that

1753
01:30:52,439 --> 01:30:56,760
Speaker 11: is a that is an imposition of will over over

1754
01:30:56,880 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 11: what was again a symbol that did nothing in accomplis nothing.

1755
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:03,640
Speaker 11: It didn't actually help anyone or change any situation. But

1756
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:06,599
Speaker 11: taking the time out of your day to bulldoze that

1757
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:08,400
Speaker 11: symbol sends a strong message.

1758
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 10: I feel the exact same way, and Republican Representative Andrew

1759
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:14,720
Speaker 10: Clyde actually wants it to go further. He introduced a

1760
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 10: bill that would have amended the US Code to withhold

1761
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:21,679
Speaker 10: certain funds from DC unless Black Lives Matter was taken

1762
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:25,679
Speaker 10: off the street and that area was renamed quote Liberty Plaza,

1763
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 10: and for the district to remove all Black Lives Matter

1764
01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:31,920
Speaker 10: Plaza references from city websites and official documents. So they

1765
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:34,320
Speaker 10: want to like memory, hold it and be like it

1766
01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:35,080
Speaker 10: never happened.

1767
01:31:35,680 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 11: That's such cripeyby bullshit too for the like these free

1768
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:40,639
Speaker 11: speech warriors right like, oh the facts don't care about

1769
01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:42,360
Speaker 11: your feelings. Free speech is the most important thing, like

1770
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 11: the marketplace of ideas, Like I guess you can't compete

1771
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:45,479
Speaker 11: in the marketplace of.

1772
01:31:45,479 --> 01:31:47,160
Speaker 5: Ideas, buckoh exactly.

1773
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:50,360
Speaker 10: Clyde said, quote it's time for our nation to leave

1774
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:53,679
Speaker 10: this failed agenda behind, starting with the removal BLM plaza

1775
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 10: from America's capital. Trump is what one hundred percent right.

1776
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:58,840
Speaker 10: We must clean up DC for the American people. I

1777
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:01,160
Speaker 10: believe that removing ba m Plaza must be part of

1778
01:32:01,160 --> 01:32:04,759
Speaker 10: this critical effort. After all, BLM is a radical defund

1779
01:32:04,760 --> 01:32:07,320
Speaker 10: the police organization, but we are not a defund the

1780
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 10: police nation.

1781
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:09,720
Speaker 3: So I know this.

1782
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:12,200
Speaker 11: You know, clean up the city rhetoric is sort of

1783
01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:15,480
Speaker 11: fascist in and of itself, right, that that's scary rhet regardless,

1784
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:18,040
Speaker 11: but pairing it with like back to back in the

1785
01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:19,639
Speaker 11: same breath, like we have to clean up the city,

1786
01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 11: we have to get rid of BLM plaza. Like are

1787
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:24,880
Speaker 11: you saying being reminded that black people have civil liberties

1788
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 11: is dirty to you? That that's what's making the city

1789
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:29,080
Speaker 11: dirty is the black people.

1790
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:31,559
Speaker 10: I would argue that's exactly what he's saying. But DC

1791
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:34,200
Speaker 10: is like getting upset about black people. It's like going

1792
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:36,280
Speaker 10: to the beach and getting upset with than when they're sand.

1793
01:32:36,360 --> 01:32:36,519
Speaker 3: Right.

1794
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:39,560
Speaker 10: It's like, we could have a whole conversation about DC's demographics,

1795
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:41,760
Speaker 10: but like a, we are a black city, like that

1796
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:44,080
Speaker 10: is what makes DC what it is. It's like why

1797
01:32:44,160 --> 01:32:46,800
Speaker 10: I continue to live here? Right, It's like, I think

1798
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:49,160
Speaker 10: that's exactly what he's saying. Is we don't want our

1799
01:32:49,240 --> 01:32:52,840
Speaker 10: nation's capital to be one that honors the you know,

1800
01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:56,040
Speaker 10: agency of black people, black bodies and black lives.

1801
01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:57,839
Speaker 3: Right, Like, I think that's like what he said.

1802
01:32:57,720 --> 01:32:59,479
Speaker 5: Then move the White House to South Boston. I guess

1803
01:32:59,600 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 5: I don't know what.

1804
01:33:02,640 --> 01:33:05,880
Speaker 10: So, you know, the mayor pretty quickly relented and bielm

1805
01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 10: plazas no more. She basically said, like, you know, we've

1806
01:33:09,479 --> 01:33:13,040
Speaker 10: got bigger fish to fry, like focusing on DC's autonomy

1807
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:15,439
Speaker 10: and budget, and to be honest, like a lot of

1808
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:17,800
Speaker 10: residents agreed with her that like it probably was not

1809
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:18,439
Speaker 10: worth the fight.

1810
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 5: That's kind of that's kind of the theme.

1811
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:23,880
Speaker 10: Here, is that all of these little things that individually

1812
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:27,479
Speaker 10: are probably not worth the fight, but then collectively you're like, well,

1813
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:27,960
Speaker 10: who is.

1814
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:29,080
Speaker 5: Sort of in charge of this city?

1815
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:31,320
Speaker 11: You know when if none of these little things are

1816
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:32,719
Speaker 11: worth the fight, are you fighting?

1817
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 10: That's a great question. Are you fighting? If nothing is

1818
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:37,439
Speaker 10: worth the fight? Are you fighting?

1819
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:39,599
Speaker 11: And I feel like that's kind of I don't know,

1820
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:43,360
Speaker 11: on a larger scale, sort of the National Democratic Party's

1821
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:45,240
Speaker 11: line has always been we got to keep a power dry,

1822
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:46,200
Speaker 11: we got to keep her powder.

1823
01:33:46,040 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 3: Dry, keep it drive for fucking what, dog?

1824
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:48,120
Speaker 5: Right?

1825
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:50,880
Speaker 11: You're gonna end the war, you know, with a pile

1826
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:52,360
Speaker 11: of bodies and a bunch of dry powder.

1827
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:53,720
Speaker 5: Exactly.

1828
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:57,519
Speaker 10: So the next demand that Trump made of Bowser was

1829
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 10: the need to clear homeless encampments near the White House,

1830
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:02,120
Speaker 10: saying that if Bowser didn't do it, he would be

1831
01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:04,640
Speaker 10: forced to do it for her. So, within hours of

1832
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:08,360
Speaker 10: Trump's call to Bowser, DC City Creuz arrived at these

1833
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:10,360
Speaker 10: encampments to tell residents they had to be out the

1834
01:34:10,360 --> 01:34:14,040
Speaker 10: next day. It's not great, like, to be clear, it

1835
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:17,080
Speaker 10: is not like our mayor does not clear encampments in DC.

1836
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:19,280
Speaker 10: In fact, her administration said they had been planning to

1837
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:21,880
Speaker 10: clear the encampment in question, but just doing so in

1838
01:34:21,880 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 10: like a more planned, rolled out way. So it's not

1839
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:27,400
Speaker 10: like she's like someone who is not, you know, down

1840
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:30,680
Speaker 10: with clearing encampments. The Washington Post spoke to some of

1841
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:33,400
Speaker 10: the people who were residents of those encampments when they

1842
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:36,040
Speaker 10: were cleared. Shelley Buyer's is someone they spoke to who

1843
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:38,439
Speaker 10: has been chronically homeless in DC for three years. She

1844
01:34:38,520 --> 01:34:40,320
Speaker 10: was living at an encampment that was cleared in twenty

1845
01:34:40,360 --> 01:34:42,280
Speaker 10: twenty three before winding up at the one that Trump

1846
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 10: wanted cleared, and she said they were basically given no

1847
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:47,600
Speaker 10: notice that they needed to vacate. She said, now we

1848
01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:49,760
Speaker 10: have only less than twenty four hours to get out,

1849
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:51,559
Speaker 10: as she threw her clothing out of her tent.

1850
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:52,479
Speaker 5: I liked it here.

1851
01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:54,479
Speaker 10: They keep shoving us off from place to place, making

1852
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:55,680
Speaker 10: it so we don't have anywhere to go.

1853
01:34:56,160 --> 01:34:57,479
Speaker 5: The Post also spoke to the.

1854
01:34:57,439 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 10: President of Miriam's Kitchen, which is a big nonprofit here

1855
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:03,200
Speaker 10: DC that provides services for the homeless, and he said

1856
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:05,599
Speaker 10: that it wasn't even clear, like he wasn't even sure

1857
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:09,479
Speaker 10: if the city followed proper protocols with this hasty encampment

1858
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:13,040
Speaker 10: clearing at Trump's direction. Encampment residents are meant to be

1859
01:35:13,080 --> 01:35:15,880
Speaker 10: given two weeks notice, but people who were cleared so

1860
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:19,320
Speaker 10: that they only learned about that action within twenty four hours.

1861
01:35:19,320 --> 01:35:21,960
Speaker 5: And so I think that's part of the issue here.

1862
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:26,440
Speaker 10: DC, like any city, has issues like crime and homelessness,

1863
01:35:26,439 --> 01:35:30,360
Speaker 10: but like hitting people housed takes time. Like just wanting

1864
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:32,800
Speaker 10: to quickly move people who might have anywhere else to

1865
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:36,200
Speaker 10: go because they look, as Trump said, unseemly or unsightly

1866
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:38,840
Speaker 10: is not solving the problem. What you're actually doing is

1867
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 10: just traumatizing people who are already vulnerable and then forcing

1868
01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:44,480
Speaker 10: them to go elsewhere, exactly like that woman.

1869
01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:47,720
Speaker 11: Told the Post, even in the best case scenario, even

1870
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:50,479
Speaker 11: the most organized clearing of an encampment is I mean,

1871
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:53,519
Speaker 11: it's violent, and it's inhumane, and it doesn't really serve

1872
01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 11: a greater purpose other than I don't know, so that

1873
01:35:56,040 --> 01:35:58,479
Speaker 11: people don't have to think about homelessness on their way

1874
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 11: to work. But there is a way to do it

1875
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:05,160
Speaker 11: that is, at least theoretically could result in something that

1876
01:36:05,240 --> 01:36:07,880
Speaker 11: is not monstrous, you know what I mean. Like I said,

1877
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:10,040
Speaker 11: there's no good way to clear it encampment unless you're

1878
01:36:10,080 --> 01:36:12,679
Speaker 11: giving everyone an apartment. But right like, you're giving people

1879
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:15,720
Speaker 11: two weeks notice, Lets social services get involved, lets them go,

1880
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:18,320
Speaker 11: you know, tent to tent for those two weeks, talking

1881
01:36:18,320 --> 01:36:21,200
Speaker 11: to people about where they could go, giving them options,

1882
01:36:21,200 --> 01:36:24,080
Speaker 11: connecting them with services if that's what they choose. But

1883
01:36:24,160 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 11: if you're just rolling up overnight and throwing people' shit away,

1884
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:28,559
Speaker 11: you're not You're not solving a problem.

1885
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:29,720
Speaker 5: You're not even trying to solve a problem. You're not

1886
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:31,599
Speaker 5: even pretending that you're trying to solve a problem.

1887
01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:35,479
Speaker 10: But I think that's exactly how Trump thinks about this issue.

1888
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:38,680
Speaker 10: It's just like looks bad and unseemly to him. So

1889
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:40,200
Speaker 10: I don't care where they go. I don't care how

1890
01:36:40,200 --> 01:36:42,679
Speaker 10: you do it. Just I don't want to be looking.

1891
01:36:42,479 --> 01:36:44,759
Speaker 11: At them, right, because for him, it's not about getting

1892
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:47,280
Speaker 11: these people connected to services so that they might eventually

1893
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:49,479
Speaker 11: find stable housing. It's about I don't want to fucking

1894
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:52,519
Speaker 11: see these people because they're gross exactly.

1895
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 10: And like he is encroaching on how our city is run, right,

1896
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:57,360
Speaker 10: and so like, if that is the ethos that you have,

1897
01:36:57,520 --> 01:36:59,080
Speaker 10: I don't want to see these gross people. I don't

1898
01:36:59,080 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 10: care where they go. This is not an ethos that

1899
01:37:01,439 --> 01:37:04,600
Speaker 10: that responsibly is able to run a city like that

1900
01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:06,160
Speaker 10: is really disruptive.

1901
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:09,880
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's absolutely disruptive because they'll go somewhere else. They'll

1902
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:12,519
Speaker 11: go somewhere else, and now their lives have been uprooted,

1903
01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:14,720
Speaker 11: they don't have maybe the documents got thrown away, and

1904
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:16,720
Speaker 11: it's going to be even harder for them to find stability.

1905
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:19,800
Speaker 5: Like you have not addressed the problem.

1906
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:22,639
Speaker 10: Exactly, and I think that's what that's like the name

1907
01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:25,040
Speaker 10: of the game, with the way that Trump has already

1908
01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:28,120
Speaker 10: been you know, meddling in the way that DC runs

1909
01:37:28,120 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 10: its local affairs. This next example, I got to say,

1910
01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:35,760
Speaker 10: it really gets to me. So DC's Attorney General Ryan

1911
01:37:35,800 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 10: Schwab recently dropped a lawsuit against the Proud Boys and

1912
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:43,240
Speaker 10: the Oathkeepers for their behavior during January six so. The

1913
01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:46,080
Speaker 10: suit was initially filed by the former DC Attorney General,

1914
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:46,559
Speaker 10: carl A.

1915
01:37:46,680 --> 01:37:47,120
Speaker 5: Racine.

1916
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:50,120
Speaker 10: It initially marks the first effort by a government agency

1917
01:37:50,160 --> 01:37:53,519
Speaker 10: to hold the individuals and organizations civilly liable for violence

1918
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:56,639
Speaker 10: at the Capitol on January sixth, but a federal judge

1919
01:37:56,640 --> 01:37:59,679
Speaker 10: in DC granted the district's request to dismiss that case.

1920
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 10: The suit was fashioned after a modern version of the

1921
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:05,280
Speaker 10: eighteen seventy one law known as the klu Klux klan

1922
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:07,799
Speaker 10: At that was enacted after the Civil War to safeguard

1923
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:11,080
Speaker 10: government officials carrying out their duties to protect civil rights.

1924
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:14,639
Speaker 10: This is actually a similar challenge that prevailed against groups

1925
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:17,559
Speaker 10: involved in the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, which Molly,

1926
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:18,960
Speaker 10: I know you might know a thing or two about.

1927
01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:22,599
Speaker 11: Let's just see, very familiar with Clan Act lawsuits.

1928
01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:24,559
Speaker 5: And they are effective. They're effective.

1929
01:38:24,560 --> 01:38:26,479
Speaker 11: It's one of the only things that we still have

1930
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:29,120
Speaker 11: from reconstruction that hasn't been taken away from us. Is

1931
01:38:29,160 --> 01:38:31,720
Speaker 11: this civil remedy for civil rights violations?

1932
01:38:32,240 --> 01:38:34,000
Speaker 5: And it works, it.

1933
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:36,760
Speaker 10: Works, but like you have to carry it out, and

1934
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:39,759
Speaker 10: basically the city decided that it wasn't worth it given

1935
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:42,760
Speaker 10: all of the threats to DC's autonomy by the Trump administration.

1936
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:43,960
Speaker 3: So it's extortion.

1937
01:38:44,200 --> 01:38:46,280
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, like that's exactly what it feels like.

1938
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:47,719
Speaker 5: I mean, this is extortion.

1939
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:51,360
Speaker 11: They're being prevented, They're being prevented from seeking a viable

1940
01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:55,520
Speaker 11: civil remedy through the courts out of fear of retaliation.

1941
01:38:55,880 --> 01:38:56,960
Speaker 5: That seems very bad.

1942
01:38:57,160 --> 01:39:00,240
Speaker 10: It's like, I mean, I'm glad that you use the

1943
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:03,640
Speaker 10: word extortion, because it really does feel like if you've

1944
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 10: seen one of my favorite movies, Goodfellas, it feels like

1945
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:10,000
Speaker 10: what Henry Hill the mobster calls real grease ball shit, right, like, ooh,

1946
01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 10: great city you have here. It would be a shame

1947
01:39:12,439 --> 01:39:14,960
Speaker 10: if something were to uh happen to it.

1948
01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:20,160
Speaker 11: Like extortion, right, God, But usually, I mean sometimes you

1949
01:39:20,200 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 11: get something out of a protection racket. DC's not even

1950
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 11: fucking getting anything out of it.

1951
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:26,680
Speaker 10: I guess you could argue that they are like not

1952
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:30,160
Speaker 10: raising the iyre further of the Trump administration and that

1953
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:32,720
Speaker 10: like that might lead to DC having more autonomy and

1954
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:36,280
Speaker 10: like DC, you know, like Trump officials not meddling in

1955
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:37,400
Speaker 10: DC's affairs.

1956
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:39,759
Speaker 11: I mean, I don't know if any of these people

1957
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:45,120
Speaker 11: have read a book, but appeasing of fascist has historically

1958
01:39:45,160 --> 01:39:46,960
Speaker 11: not resulted in you getting what you want.

1959
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:50,719
Speaker 10: No, And I gotta be honest, girl, this one's fucking stung.

1960
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:54,599
Speaker 10: Like it sucks hearing people like the Proud Boys leader

1961
01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:59,040
Speaker 10: Enrique Terrio basically brag about having this case dropped. The

1962
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:02,400
Speaker 10: Oathkeeper's founder, Stuart Rhoades, his attorney, said, we are very

1963
01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:04,400
Speaker 10: pleased to see the District of Columbia has come to

1964
01:40:04,439 --> 01:40:06,960
Speaker 10: the same conclusion that the American public and President Trump

1965
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:09,479
Speaker 10: have the narrative that January sixth was some sort of

1966
01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:12,320
Speaker 10: armed insurrection to overthrow the government plus falls from the

1967
01:40:12,400 --> 01:40:17,040
Speaker 10: very beginning. Enriquetario posted after the district requested to dismiss

1968
01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:20,400
Speaker 10: this lawsuit, saying another exoneration. If God is with us,

1969
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:23,040
Speaker 10: who can be against us? Like it just chaps my

1970
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 10: ass to hear this shit.

1971
01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:26,559
Speaker 5: Like God didn't do this, baby, God didn't do this.

1972
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:32,840
Speaker 10: You also have DC's Metro Police investigating the vandalization of

1973
01:40:32,920 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 10: tesla's as a hate crime. This again, like it really

1974
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:41,120
Speaker 10: makes me wonder, Like, as far as I know, Trump

1975
01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:44,120
Speaker 10: is not in charge of our Metropolitan Police Department, but

1976
01:40:44,160 --> 01:40:45,240
Speaker 10: stuff like this makes me wonder.

1977
01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:46,679
Speaker 3: We're like, is he a kind.

1978
01:40:46,479 --> 01:40:47,040
Speaker 2: Of in charge?

1979
01:40:47,080 --> 01:40:48,840
Speaker 11: I mean, pressure's clearly being exact.

1980
01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:52,679
Speaker 10: Basically, somebody wrote quote political hate speech on a Tesla.

1981
01:40:53,320 --> 01:40:55,559
Speaker 10: The statement from the Metropolitan Police Departments that they were

1982
01:40:55,560 --> 01:41:00,240
Speaker 10: investigating these offenses as being motivated by hate or bias clear.

1983
01:41:00,439 --> 01:41:03,080
Speaker 10: Mayor Bowser was like, I didn't tell them to do this,

1984
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:04,559
Speaker 10: Like she was like, I have nothing to do with

1985
01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:07,280
Speaker 10: the police department's decision making on this, Like that's them.

1986
01:41:07,600 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 11: I hate crime typically implicates a protected class like race, gender, religion,

1987
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:14,600
Speaker 11: national origin. What is the protected class of being a

1988
01:41:14,600 --> 01:41:17,479
Speaker 11: Tesla owner? It's like it's being a big loser of

1989
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:19,960
Speaker 11: protected class unclear.

1990
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:22,880
Speaker 10: And they wouldn't even say, like what was the nature

1991
01:41:22,920 --> 01:41:25,120
Speaker 10: of what was written on this car that made it

1992
01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:28,160
Speaker 10: a potential hate crime? Like we don't even know, which is.

1993
01:41:28,120 --> 01:41:31,640
Speaker 11: So funny because these guys never believed in hate crimes before, unless.

1994
01:41:31,320 --> 01:41:34,000
Speaker 10: It's against like Elon Musk and people who like him.

1995
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:35,280
Speaker 5: Something that's the best I.

1996
01:41:35,200 --> 01:41:39,240
Speaker 11: Can figure, but I've heard full throadd arguments against the

1997
01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:41,679
Speaker 11: existence of the category of hate crime, and now suddenly

1998
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:44,280
Speaker 11: they're very important. Yeah, now they're very important.

1999
01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:45,920
Speaker 10: And I do you think I mean, like, when I

2000
01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:48,839
Speaker 10: heard about this, it really made me think about how

2001
01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:53,000
Speaker 10: different categories of crime and legislation around it is like

2002
01:41:53,160 --> 01:41:55,680
Speaker 10: very well intended and well meaning, and like I understand

2003
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:58,880
Speaker 10: who hate crime legislation is meant to protect, but then

2004
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:01,120
Speaker 10: you also have the ways it can be sort of

2005
01:42:01,160 --> 01:42:05,320
Speaker 10: like perverted to protect a protective class that is not

2006
01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:06,920
Speaker 10: a protected class, right, Like it.

2007
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:09,240
Speaker 11: I mean, it's the same as the language around terrorism,

2008
01:42:09,320 --> 01:42:11,800
Speaker 11: right that, Like, terrorism wasn't something that we were talking

2009
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:13,960
Speaker 11: about or charging. It's not even very well defined in

2010
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 11: the law, to be honest, But it's something that became

2011
01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:19,320
Speaker 11: part of the conversation when America became very afraid of Muslims,

2012
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:21,960
Speaker 11: became very afraid of Middle Eastern people, Right, So terrorism

2013
01:42:22,040 --> 01:42:24,840
Speaker 11: had that implication for a very long time, and then

2014
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:26,760
Speaker 11: there was this brief window in the last couple of

2015
01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:29,880
Speaker 11: years where they were using it against domestic white extremists.

2016
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:32,439
Speaker 11: And now they're not doing that anymore, and they're just

2017
01:42:32,479 --> 01:42:34,960
Speaker 11: going to charge you with terrorism. For looking sideways at

2018
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:36,000
Speaker 11: a Tesla exactly.

2019
01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:39,120
Speaker 10: Here's how my co host and friend Michael Schaeffer, who

2020
01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:41,880
Speaker 10: writes the Capital City's column for Political put it. He says,

2021
01:42:42,479 --> 01:42:45,080
Speaker 10: now the White House is beating the drums about Tesla vandalism,

2022
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:48,120
Speaker 10: creating another incentive for locals to play ball. The FBI

2023
01:42:48,200 --> 01:42:52,360
Speaker 10: director called Tesla vandalism domestic terrorism. The President suggested sending

2024
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:55,800
Speaker 10: vandals to jail and El Salvador if likening the run

2025
01:42:55,840 --> 01:42:58,680
Speaker 10: of the mill political graffiti to criminal bigotry, it's what

2026
01:42:58,720 --> 01:43:01,160
Speaker 10: it takes to keep the feds from have locking city Hall.

2027
01:43:01,360 --> 01:43:03,160
Speaker 10: The logic goes, maybe it's worth it.

2028
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:04,680
Speaker 5: No, it's not. I would say it's not.

2029
01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:07,560
Speaker 11: No, it's not Maybe they want to do through you

2030
01:43:07,720 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 11: extraordinary rendition to vandals, but maybe it's worth No.

2031
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:12,800
Speaker 5: It's not worth it, babe, it's not worth it.

2032
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:14,800
Speaker 11: You're not gonna you're not holding back the tide of

2033
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:16,920
Speaker 11: fascism if you allow fascism to happen.

2034
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:21,920
Speaker 10: Unlike local governments in Cleveland or Boston, DC is really

2035
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:25,040
Speaker 10: stuck between a rock and a hard place. And I mean, like,

2036
01:43:25,439 --> 01:43:32,040
Speaker 10: I understand why city officials are taking this like appeasement angle,

2037
01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:35,559
Speaker 10: but like I guess, as you said, like, I don't

2038
01:43:35,560 --> 01:43:37,040
Speaker 10: know how you can make the argument that it's like

2039
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:40,400
Speaker 10: worth it, Like, what are we getting if every single

2040
01:43:40,479 --> 01:43:43,320
Speaker 10: day it's going to be a new threat to DC's autonomy,

2041
01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:45,680
Speaker 10: a new threat to DC, a new EO from the

2042
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:46,560
Speaker 10: Trump administration?

2043
01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:49,800
Speaker 5: What are we really getting by playing ball in this way? Right?

2044
01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:51,560
Speaker 11: And if you're saying you're saving your energy for the

2045
01:43:51,600 --> 01:43:53,400
Speaker 11: big fight, it's like, well, what do you think the

2046
01:43:53,400 --> 01:43:55,080
Speaker 11: big fight is going to be If it's not the

2047
01:43:55,240 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 11: slow erosion of the safety and civil liberties of everyone

2048
01:43:58,160 --> 01:44:03,000
Speaker 11: who lives here. Exactly what is the big fight?

2049
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:14,120
Speaker 10: Well, some might say the big fight is DC's tense

2050
01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:17,240
Speaker 10: budget showdown, which is ongoing. It's a little in the

2051
01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 10: weed ze, So like, I'm not going to get too

2052
01:44:19,080 --> 01:44:20,599
Speaker 10: too into it, but I'll try to give the quick

2053
01:44:20,640 --> 01:44:23,080
Speaker 10: and dirty version of what's going on. The district is

2054
01:44:23,120 --> 01:44:26,000
Speaker 10: overseen by Congress thanks to provision in the Constitution, So

2055
01:44:26,160 --> 01:44:29,040
Speaker 10: this means that DC is occasionally treated like a federal

2056
01:44:29,080 --> 01:44:31,280
Speaker 10: agency rather than like a city or a local government

2057
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:34,839
Speaker 10: under various laws. This used to mean that DC's budget

2058
01:44:34,880 --> 01:44:37,240
Speaker 10: was regularly delayed. Because of this, The city had to

2059
01:44:37,240 --> 01:44:40,760
Speaker 10: wait for Congress to approve DC's local budget alongside other

2060
01:44:40,840 --> 01:44:44,360
Speaker 10: federal agencies, which Congress is like almost never does on time.

2061
01:44:44,600 --> 01:44:46,960
Speaker 10: So pretty much everybody agreed like this was a problem.

2062
01:44:47,240 --> 01:44:49,200
Speaker 10: So in the early two thousands they changed it so

2063
01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:52,200
Speaker 10: that as Congress was behind schedule, DC could just keep

2064
01:44:52,240 --> 01:44:55,959
Speaker 10: spending at its current budget levels without disruption until Congress

2065
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:58,760
Speaker 10: is able to formally approve a new budget. But in

2066
01:44:58,920 --> 01:45:02,200
Speaker 10: March that alt change because the language was omitted from

2067
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:04,760
Speaker 10: a new funding bill that Congress passed in March that

2068
01:45:04,800 --> 01:45:08,920
Speaker 10: would basically force DC to omit one billion dollars from

2069
01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:12,040
Speaker 10: its budget. This to be clear, like, if DC were

2070
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:14,960
Speaker 10: to omit one billion dollars from the budget, we basically

2071
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:16,680
Speaker 10: could not function as a city. The things that you

2072
01:45:16,720 --> 01:45:19,680
Speaker 10: need to run a city, schools, garbage collection, all of

2073
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:21,400
Speaker 10: that would be cut to the point of like not

2074
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:23,800
Speaker 10: being viable. I'm not even sure what that would mean

2075
01:45:24,280 --> 01:45:26,879
Speaker 10: for the city to make that deep of a cut.

2076
01:45:27,080 --> 01:45:32,320
Speaker 10: And the worst part is nobody really knows why Congress

2077
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:34,600
Speaker 10: did this. Like, in my capacity as co host for

2078
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:37,760
Speaker 10: a local DC podcast, City CASTC, I've spoken to a

2079
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:40,800
Speaker 10: lot of people in DC government and reporters, and the

2080
01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:43,240
Speaker 10: best I can come up with is that Congress just

2081
01:45:43,240 --> 01:45:46,080
Speaker 10: really does not understand what they have done. A reporter

2082
01:45:46,160 --> 01:45:48,040
Speaker 10: that I spoke to you said that there seemed to

2083
01:45:48,080 --> 01:45:51,519
Speaker 10: be confusion with lawmakers that we were talking about DC's

2084
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:54,760
Speaker 10: local tax money and not federal money. And so this

2085
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:59,240
Speaker 10: was happening in March, during the height of like doge efficiency.

2086
01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:01,479
Speaker 10: I'm putting a fish see in like heavy scare quotes.

2087
01:46:01,800 --> 01:46:03,920
Speaker 10: It was at the height of that, and so the

2088
01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:07,679
Speaker 10: best I could think was that lawmakers thought, like, oh,

2089
01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:10,080
Speaker 10: this will we will be able to like say that,

2090
01:46:10,400 --> 01:46:13,200
Speaker 10: you know, making DC cut a billion dollars from the

2091
01:46:13,200 --> 01:46:17,400
Speaker 10: budget will be a big show of federal tax dollar savings.

2092
01:46:17,479 --> 01:46:19,599
Speaker 10: But we're not talking about federal money. We're talking about

2093
01:46:19,640 --> 01:46:22,559
Speaker 10: local tax money, not federal money. Doesn't save anybody any

2094
01:46:22,600 --> 01:46:25,840
Speaker 10: federal money. And so I think that from what I've heard,

2095
01:46:26,280 --> 01:46:28,760
Speaker 10: it sounds like people like Mike Johnson just maybe like

2096
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:31,599
Speaker 10: did not really have a good understanding of that. It

2097
01:46:31,680 --> 01:46:33,799
Speaker 10: is a little bit complicated, but like if you're a lawmaker,

2098
01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:35,559
Speaker 10: like come on, dude, but.

2099
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:38,479
Speaker 11: Again, because you have no representative who is really involved

2100
01:46:38,479 --> 01:46:41,160
Speaker 11: in this process, Like there's nobody in that room going

2101
01:46:41,160 --> 01:46:43,360
Speaker 11: to bat for DC. There's nobody in that room whose

2102
01:46:43,400 --> 01:46:47,599
Speaker 11: constituency is DC, who understands what it means to run

2103
01:46:47,720 --> 01:46:48,920
Speaker 11: DC exactly.

2104
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:52,000
Speaker 10: And what's funny is that, like for all the talk

2105
01:46:52,040 --> 01:46:54,519
Speaker 10: about like how how like we're not a defund the

2106
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:57,599
Speaker 10: police nation, this bill would kind of defund DC police.

2107
01:46:57,600 --> 01:46:58,160
Speaker 5: It would have to.

2108
01:46:58,200 --> 01:46:59,439
Speaker 3: Mean who defund everything?

2109
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:01,679
Speaker 10: Like it would' I mean like sixty seven million dollars

2110
01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:04,080
Speaker 10: caught from the DC police budget, along with cutting funding

2111
01:47:04,120 --> 01:47:06,759
Speaker 10: for DC public schools and the Department of Human Services,

2112
01:47:06,760 --> 01:47:09,240
Speaker 10: which serves the city's forest residents. Right, So, like it

2113
01:47:09,240 --> 01:47:10,800
Speaker 10: would defund everything.

2114
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:11,599
Speaker 5: Including the police.

2115
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:13,599
Speaker 10: So it's like funny to be like, we're not down

2116
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:15,599
Speaker 10: with defund the police, but we are down with this

2117
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:17,600
Speaker 10: bill that kind of does it.

2118
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:19,640
Speaker 11: We're like, who do you think is gonna fill the potholes?

2119
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:22,040
Speaker 11: Who's gonna mow the grass? Like nothing will get done,

2120
01:47:22,040 --> 01:47:22,960
Speaker 11: the city will fall apart.

2121
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:25,560
Speaker 10: Well, so our mayor has really been doing her diplomacy

2122
01:47:25,600 --> 01:47:28,599
Speaker 10: thing and appealing to exactly that, right, Like Trump has

2123
01:47:28,640 --> 01:47:30,880
Speaker 10: been really clear about all these goals he has for

2124
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:33,920
Speaker 10: the district, like beautifying DC and cracking down on crime

2125
01:47:33,960 --> 01:47:36,360
Speaker 10: and homelessness. There is no way to do that if

2126
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:38,720
Speaker 10: you are slashing the budgets of these departments that are

2127
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:41,080
Speaker 10: meant to work on those things by tens of millions

2128
01:47:41,120 --> 01:47:41,639
Speaker 10: of dollars.

2129
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:43,240
Speaker 5: Who's gonna prune the cherry trees?

2130
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 4: Donald?

2131
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:44,920
Speaker 3: I mean it Tho's gonna prove.

2132
01:47:44,920 --> 01:47:47,639
Speaker 10: Almost as if Trump doesn't really care about doing any

2133
01:47:47,680 --> 01:47:49,599
Speaker 10: of this stuff. He's just like talking big and doesn't

2134
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:51,320
Speaker 10: give a shit about how it actually plays out.

2135
01:47:51,479 --> 01:47:53,439
Speaker 5: He doesn't know how anything works.

2136
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:57,120
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean that's really the bottom line for me

2137
01:47:57,280 --> 01:48:02,160
Speaker 10: is that when you have Trump loudly talking about the

2138
01:48:02,160 --> 01:48:03,920
Speaker 10: ways that he is meddling in the way that DC

2139
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:08,680
Speaker 10: is run, He's not someone who is good at efficiently governing.

2140
01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:11,040
Speaker 10: And so like, you know, say what you little about DC?

2141
01:48:11,320 --> 01:48:14,000
Speaker 10: We had a function we have a functioning local government,

2142
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:17,680
Speaker 10: a functioning city. Putting somebody like Trump in charge of

2143
01:48:17,720 --> 01:48:20,880
Speaker 10: how things get done, what happens to encampments, what happens

2144
01:48:20,880 --> 01:48:23,599
Speaker 10: to education, what happens to crime? Like, like, that's just

2145
01:48:23,720 --> 01:48:25,639
Speaker 10: a terrible, terrible move for the city.

2146
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:28,000
Speaker 11: I mean it's like, you know, at a shitty retail job,

2147
01:48:28,040 --> 01:48:30,040
Speaker 11: you get a new assistant store manager and they try

2148
01:48:30,040 --> 01:48:31,680
Speaker 11: to change the way the schedule gets made just so

2149
01:48:31,720 --> 01:48:33,360
Speaker 11: they can look like they're doing something, so they can

2150
01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:35,360
Speaker 11: feel like they're in charge, and it's like, yeah, dog,

2151
01:48:35,400 --> 01:48:37,640
Speaker 11: that's just not how things work at this store, Like

2152
01:48:37,720 --> 01:48:39,880
Speaker 11: it won't function if the keyholder doesn't open.

2153
01:48:40,360 --> 01:48:43,360
Speaker 10: I wish I could tell Trump that, Like I'm taken

2154
01:48:43,439 --> 01:48:45,400
Speaker 10: back to my days of working retail at the mall

2155
01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:48,559
Speaker 10: or where you could just be like, actually, Greg, that's

2156
01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:50,280
Speaker 10: not how it works here at this Claire's.

2157
01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:54,759
Speaker 5: I used to work at Claires. It just won't work

2158
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:55,160
Speaker 5: like that.

2159
01:48:56,640 --> 01:48:58,680
Speaker 11: Like, I know you're very important and you're in charge here,

2160
01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:00,000
Speaker 11: but it's just like it won't work.

2161
01:49:00,160 --> 01:49:01,120
Speaker 5: It won't work.

2162
01:49:02,080 --> 01:49:05,200
Speaker 10: So yeah, I mean, as of today, there has not

2163
01:49:05,320 --> 01:49:08,920
Speaker 10: been a vote on DC's budget. Trump actually signaled that

2164
01:49:08,920 --> 01:49:11,280
Speaker 10: he is on board for a fix that would prevent

2165
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:13,360
Speaker 10: this billion dollar cut, and he urged the Senate to

2166
01:49:13,439 --> 01:49:15,519
Speaker 10: vote for it. He posted, the House should take up

2167
01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:18,200
Speaker 10: the DC funding fix that the Senate passed and get

2168
01:49:18,200 --> 01:49:21,519
Speaker 10: it done immediately, all caps. But everybody's on recess and

2169
01:49:21,560 --> 01:49:24,040
Speaker 10: so in the meantime, like it's not clear what's going

2170
01:49:24,080 --> 01:49:26,360
Speaker 10: to happen, And the city did announce that they're looking

2171
01:49:26,400 --> 01:49:29,679
Speaker 10: at making cuts and furlowing staff because it's not clear

2172
01:49:29,840 --> 01:49:30,639
Speaker 10: what's going to happen.

2173
01:49:31,040 --> 01:49:33,000
Speaker 11: So, you know, so it's not It's not that the

2174
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:35,080
Speaker 11: city doesn't have them. It's not like the city's broke.

2175
01:49:35,160 --> 01:49:37,120
Speaker 11: Like the city has the money, they're just not allowed

2176
01:49:37,120 --> 01:49:37,680
Speaker 11: to budget it.

2177
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:41,519
Speaker 5: Yes, exactly that and for no reason. Problems. It's a

2178
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:43,160
Speaker 5: fake but it's a fake problem.

2179
01:49:43,439 --> 01:49:46,599
Speaker 10: But again, I don't know that people like Mike Johnson

2180
01:49:46,720 --> 01:49:49,519
Speaker 10: understand that there are people who live here who you know,

2181
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:51,640
Speaker 10: just want to have their trash taken out, just want

2182
01:49:51,680 --> 01:49:53,080
Speaker 10: to be able to educate their kids, just want to

2183
01:49:53,080 --> 01:49:55,200
Speaker 10: be able to like live our lives in the city.

2184
01:49:55,240 --> 01:49:57,320
Speaker 5: And I think I've said this on it could happen

2185
01:49:57,320 --> 01:49:57,799
Speaker 5: here before.

2186
01:49:57,840 --> 01:50:00,680
Speaker 10: But I have to feel like it's punitive, right like

2187
01:50:01,160 --> 01:50:05,120
Speaker 10: DC nobody didn't vote for Trump, Like DC didn't vote

2188
01:50:05,120 --> 01:50:09,320
Speaker 10: for Trump, like you know, Nicky Hayley won DC's Republican primary,

2189
01:50:09,360 --> 01:50:11,120
Speaker 10: not even Trump, right, so, like we have made it

2190
01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:12,599
Speaker 10: very clear that we don't like him and we don't

2191
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:14,920
Speaker 10: want him here. And I guess I just have to

2192
01:50:14,960 --> 01:50:17,719
Speaker 10: say the only thing that makes sense as to why

2193
01:50:18,200 --> 01:50:20,280
Speaker 10: Congress would do this it's punitive, is to be like

2194
01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:24,400
Speaker 10: fuck DC and the progressive, hippie, dippy educated people who

2195
01:50:24,400 --> 01:50:26,400
Speaker 10: live there, Like it just feels like like a punitive

2196
01:50:26,439 --> 01:50:27,879
Speaker 10: attack on the district.

2197
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:31,360
Speaker 11: But again just like shooting themselves in the dick, because

2198
01:50:31,400 --> 01:50:34,000
Speaker 11: like if the city falls apart, like you still work here,

2199
01:50:34,160 --> 01:50:35,800
Speaker 11: you still have to drive on the streets here.

2200
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:40,519
Speaker 10: Well, I mean, if Trump gets his way and DC

2201
01:50:40,760 --> 01:50:43,360
Speaker 10: just becomes like a instead of a city, like a

2202
01:50:43,400 --> 01:50:47,600
Speaker 10: military compound that is controlled by like his goons.

2203
01:50:48,280 --> 01:50:50,280
Speaker 11: Like it's sort of a like a Trump Vatican City

2204
01:50:50,280 --> 01:50:52,799
Speaker 11: where he's the king of this little tiny country.

2205
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:56,559
Speaker 10: That is my ultimate, biggest fear about what is on

2206
01:50:56,600 --> 01:50:59,120
Speaker 10: the horizon for DC. That is like the ultimate ultimate

2207
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:02,400
Speaker 10: like negative fear that I have.

2208
01:51:02,920 --> 01:51:05,920
Speaker 5: And I guess bottom line is like this is.

2209
01:51:05,840 --> 01:51:09,880
Speaker 10: Why DC needs statehoods, Like we are facing such unique

2210
01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:12,519
Speaker 10: threats from the Trump administration that no other place in

2211
01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:15,599
Speaker 10: the United States faces. You know, there are a million

2212
01:51:15,680 --> 01:51:17,840
Speaker 10: reasons for DC to become a state, but this just

2213
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:20,280
Speaker 10: I think that the way that Trump is acting.

2214
01:51:20,000 --> 01:51:23,440
Speaker 5: Toward our city, toward our mayor toward our council.

2215
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:26,280
Speaker 10: With regards to our budget, like it all just makes

2216
01:51:26,320 --> 01:51:28,920
Speaker 10: so much sense that our residents should not be at

2217
01:51:28,920 --> 01:51:30,880
Speaker 10: the behest of somebody like Trump.

2218
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:33,040
Speaker 5: To have our city run the way that we want

2219
01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:35,360
Speaker 5: it to be run. And yeah, it just doesn't make sense.

2220
01:51:35,400 --> 01:51:36,000
Speaker 5: It doesn't make sense.

2221
01:51:36,000 --> 01:51:38,200
Speaker 11: It doesn't the city should be able to make its

2222
01:51:38,240 --> 01:51:40,760
Speaker 11: own budget. There's no reason for it to function like this.

2223
01:51:41,120 --> 01:51:44,400
Speaker 10: There is no reason for it. So from your lips

2224
01:51:44,439 --> 01:51:45,360
Speaker 10: to God's ears.

2225
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:49,960
Speaker 11: Yeah, So, like, I guess what should people look for,

2226
01:51:50,040 --> 01:51:52,120
Speaker 11: Like what's the next step in this process?

2227
01:51:52,240 --> 01:51:54,040
Speaker 5: Like when's the next vote on this?

2228
01:51:54,600 --> 01:51:58,000
Speaker 10: So when lawmakers are back in session, we should have

2229
01:51:58,040 --> 01:52:00,519
Speaker 10: some sense of what's going on with DC's budget. The

2230
01:52:00,520 --> 01:52:03,080
Speaker 10: thing I would end with is like, give a shit

2231
01:52:03,120 --> 01:52:06,920
Speaker 10: about DC, Like, don't be somebody who perpetuates the idea

2232
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:10,080
Speaker 10: that the only thing happening in DC is like national politics,

2233
01:52:10,080 --> 01:52:13,760
Speaker 10: and like where national conversations are happening, Because you know,

2234
01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:16,559
Speaker 10: there are six hundred thousand people who live here and

2235
01:52:17,080 --> 01:52:21,080
Speaker 10: we want to be able to control our city and control.

2236
01:52:20,680 --> 01:52:22,240
Speaker 5: Our tax money.

2237
01:52:22,280 --> 01:52:24,320
Speaker 10: Like I pay taxes just like anybody else, and it's

2238
01:52:24,560 --> 01:52:27,240
Speaker 10: ridiculous that I get less of a say than everybody else.

2239
01:52:27,439 --> 01:52:29,280
Speaker 10: So if you don't live in DC and you hear

2240
01:52:29,320 --> 01:52:31,920
Speaker 10: about Congress or the Senate voting on stuff that impacts

2241
01:52:31,960 --> 01:52:34,320
Speaker 10: DC residents, like you might hear about them voting on

2242
01:52:34,360 --> 01:52:37,720
Speaker 10: the DC budget fixed bill, you can call your representatives

2243
01:52:37,720 --> 01:52:40,240
Speaker 10: and advocate on our behalf and kind of be our

2244
01:52:40,320 --> 01:52:43,280
Speaker 10: voice because we don't really get one. Hopefully this all

2245
01:52:43,280 --> 01:52:44,960
Speaker 10: gives you a sense of what's at stake for us,

2246
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:46,880
Speaker 10: So please give a shit about DC.

2247
01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:49,639
Speaker 11: Give a shit about DC, and hopefully you guys still

2248
01:52:49,680 --> 01:52:51,040
Speaker 11: have garbage services.

2249
01:52:51,800 --> 01:52:56,880
Speaker 10: We'll see Molly, thank you for running through all of

2250
01:52:56,880 --> 01:52:57,320
Speaker 10: this with me.

2251
01:52:57,360 --> 01:53:00,320
Speaker 5: You're such a good co host. Yeah, this was fun. Yeah,

2252
01:53:00,360 --> 01:53:02,280
Speaker 5: I listened to Bridges' podcast. There are no girls on

2253
01:53:02,280 --> 01:53:05,280
Speaker 5: the Internet listen to Weird Little Guys, a Webby.

2254
01:53:05,120 --> 01:53:06,520
Speaker 11: Award winning podcast.

2255
01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:10,439
Speaker 10: Yes, so deserved. Are you like keeping your wedding secret?

2256
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:11,599
Speaker 10: Is that something I can talk about?

2257
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:13,920
Speaker 11: Well, I did tell the listeners just because there's gonna

2258
01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:16,920
Speaker 11: be some reruns coming out. I'm getting married soon, so

2259
01:53:16,960 --> 01:53:18,559
Speaker 11: I will be out of town for a little bit.

2260
01:53:18,920 --> 01:53:20,559
Speaker 11: But yeah, so I got a lot going on. I

2261
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:22,479
Speaker 11: got my Weird Little Guys, I got my weird little wedding.

2262
01:53:22,800 --> 01:53:25,599
Speaker 5: Well, congratulations. I was telling you off.

2263
01:53:25,479 --> 01:53:28,400
Speaker 10: Mike that, like, I love it when women who do

2264
01:53:28,520 --> 01:53:32,080
Speaker 10: work in the like extremism right wing space have happy,

2265
01:53:32,200 --> 01:53:35,240
Speaker 10: thriving personal lives, so it brings me a lot of joy.

2266
01:53:35,479 --> 01:53:39,720
Speaker 5: Deeply congratulations, thank you. Yeah, I am experiencing a lot

2267
01:53:39,720 --> 01:53:42,320
Speaker 5: of joy. You deserve it. Thank you.

2268
01:54:04,280 --> 01:54:07,839
Speaker 2: Welcome back to It could Happen Here? A podcast normally

2269
01:54:07,960 --> 01:54:11,320
Speaker 2: about it happening here, being you know, the real world

2270
01:54:11,320 --> 01:54:14,599
Speaker 2: where you live, but for the next two weeks after this,

2271
01:54:14,760 --> 01:54:16,719
Speaker 2: and for the week before us, and for this week,

2272
01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:20,479
Speaker 2: we're talking about it happening in a galaxy far far away.

2273
01:54:21,000 --> 01:54:23,599
Speaker 2: That's right. This is the second in our four part

2274
01:54:23,720 --> 01:54:29,160
Speaker 2: series reviewing and discussing and Or Season two, which, due

2275
01:54:29,160 --> 01:54:31,800
Speaker 2: to a series of incredibly unlikely events, has become the

2276
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:34,840
Speaker 2: most radical media to reach a wide audience in the

2277
01:54:34,920 --> 01:54:37,480
Speaker 2: United States and quite some time. I am here with

2278
01:54:37,600 --> 01:54:40,560
Speaker 2: Mio Wong and Garrison Davis. How are we all doing today.

2279
01:54:40,400 --> 01:54:44,080
Speaker 3: Hanging in there, hanging in there as we always are.

2280
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:49,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just watched episodes seven through nine last night,

2281
01:54:49,560 --> 01:54:51,480
Speaker 2: which is really helping with the hanging in there.

2282
01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:53,000
Speaker 3: I have not seen that shit yet.

2283
01:54:53,040 --> 01:54:54,600
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's for next week, though we have to

2284
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:55,240
Speaker 4: say that for next week.

2285
01:54:55,320 --> 01:54:57,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we're not talking about them now, but we

2286
01:54:57,200 --> 01:54:59,360
Speaker 2: watched them this week and I'm happy.

2287
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:03,240
Speaker 4: Did watch them, and oh boy, but we still have

2288
01:55:03,280 --> 01:55:05,520
Speaker 4: a lot to talk about for episodes four to six.

2289
01:55:06,160 --> 01:55:08,200
Speaker 4: It does kind of set up what we see later on,

2290
01:55:08,320 --> 01:55:10,120
Speaker 4: but I think there's a lot of interesting stuff there

2291
01:55:10,120 --> 01:55:13,120
Speaker 4: with like building an underground resistance, a lot of spies

2292
01:55:13,160 --> 01:55:16,760
Speaker 4: an espionage mixed in with like the personal cost of

2293
01:55:17,280 --> 01:55:20,520
Speaker 4: rebellion and how it affects like your personal life, your relationships.

2294
01:55:20,680 --> 01:55:23,080
Speaker 4: So there is a lot to discuss here. But oh boy,

2295
01:55:23,280 --> 01:55:24,520
Speaker 4: I am excited for next week.

2296
01:55:24,640 --> 01:55:27,720
Speaker 2: Yes, I am very excited for next week. I'm very

2297
01:55:27,720 --> 01:55:30,880
Speaker 2: excited for this week, which we should talk about so

2298
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:35,080
Speaker 2: kind of there's a few themes running through these three episodes.

2299
01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:38,200
Speaker 2: One of them is, yeah, the cost in terms of

2300
01:55:38,240 --> 01:55:43,040
Speaker 2: your personal life on being part of a rebellion, And yeah,

2301
01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:46,960
Speaker 2: I'm interested kind of what are some of the I mean,

2302
01:55:47,080 --> 01:55:49,840
Speaker 2: there's one real standout moment in these episodes that I

2303
01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:51,320
Speaker 2: know we're all going to want to talk about, which

2304
01:55:51,360 --> 01:55:54,960
Speaker 2: is a speech given by Saul Gerrera saw Yeah, played

2305
01:55:55,000 --> 01:55:58,240
Speaker 2: by Forrest Whitaker, just just amazingly.

2306
01:55:58,480 --> 01:56:01,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, the nitrous speech. Yeah, we'll get to it.

2307
01:56:01,080 --> 01:56:01,680
Speaker 3: We'll get to that.

2308
01:56:01,800 --> 01:56:04,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, we should start with the first of these episodes.

2309
01:56:05,080 --> 01:56:08,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, episode four. Ever been to Gorman? I guess once again,

2310
01:56:08,480 --> 01:56:11,400
Speaker 4: if you do not want to be giving Disney Plus

2311
01:56:11,440 --> 01:56:16,200
Speaker 4: your money, you can be like Hondo Anaka and acquire

2312
01:56:16,320 --> 01:56:17,160
Speaker 4: the show that way.

2313
01:56:17,480 --> 01:56:20,480
Speaker 3: Remember the torrent combinations, Remember the variations, gotta keep them

2314
01:56:20,480 --> 01:56:20,960
Speaker 3: all in your.

2315
01:56:20,840 --> 01:56:25,480
Speaker 4: Head, Yes, yes, all nine or eight variations. Let's do

2316
01:56:25,600 --> 01:56:28,120
Speaker 4: a quick recap of this episode, then we'll talk about

2317
01:56:28,160 --> 01:56:30,440
Speaker 4: some of these aspects. So one year later from the

2318
01:56:30,480 --> 01:56:33,200
Speaker 4: previous episodes, Cassian and Bix are on the planet Coroissant,

2319
01:56:33,280 --> 01:56:36,320
Speaker 4: staying at a safe house in between running missions for Luthen.

2320
01:56:36,760 --> 01:56:40,640
Speaker 4: Bix is severely struggling with PTSD, while Cassian is stressed

2321
01:56:40,640 --> 01:56:45,000
Speaker 4: about having to avoid surveillance while hiding in the capital city.

2322
01:56:44,680 --> 01:56:47,680
Speaker 2: And Bix is also we find out abusing space santas.

2323
01:56:48,600 --> 01:56:50,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, later on we can we can see that she's

2324
01:56:50,960 --> 01:56:53,640
Speaker 4: she's using using space drugs to help her cope with

2325
01:56:53,640 --> 01:56:56,680
Speaker 4: the massive amounts of trauma that she's been forced to

2326
01:56:56,880 --> 01:57:00,360
Speaker 4: deal with the past few years. Now, our favorite weasel,

2327
01:57:00,480 --> 01:57:03,480
Speaker 4: Cyril Karn, has been transferred to the planet Gormant, where

2328
01:57:03,480 --> 01:57:06,560
Speaker 4: he's running the local Bureau of Standards in the capital

2329
01:57:06,640 --> 01:57:10,920
Speaker 4: city of Palmo. He refutes Imperial propaganda about Gorman while

2330
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:14,040
Speaker 4: on a FaceTime call with his Fox News addicted.

2331
01:57:13,760 --> 01:57:17,400
Speaker 2: More talking about like, yeah, the Imperial the Imperial News

2332
01:57:17,400 --> 01:57:20,880
Speaker 2: says the Gormans are super arrogant, just real assholes.

2333
01:57:22,280 --> 01:57:26,440
Speaker 4: You gotta stop watching Imperial news Man. But this may

2334
01:57:26,560 --> 01:57:29,920
Speaker 4: be a ploy from Cyril, because Cyril knows he's being

2335
01:57:30,000 --> 01:57:33,240
Speaker 4: monitored and surveilled by members of the Gorman Front, a

2336
01:57:33,240 --> 01:57:37,400
Speaker 4: small underground resistance group, while working as a double agent

2337
01:57:37,480 --> 01:57:40,840
Speaker 4: for his ISB girlfriend Dedra. Sirtle gets invited to a

2338
01:57:40,840 --> 01:57:42,880
Speaker 4: town hall meeting where he's introduced to the leader of

2339
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:46,080
Speaker 4: the Gorman Front, a local businessman and city councilor, and

2340
01:57:46,120 --> 01:57:48,560
Speaker 4: then Cyril is recruited into the resistance.

2341
01:57:48,920 --> 01:57:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to say a little about the Gorman

2342
01:57:51,440 --> 01:57:54,720
Speaker 2: Front because they're very clearly French resistance in World War Two.

2343
01:57:54,840 --> 01:57:58,400
Speaker 2: Coded they developed a whole like language for them to speak,

2344
01:57:58,440 --> 01:57:59,400
Speaker 2: which is basically like.

2345
01:57:59,480 --> 01:58:02,040
Speaker 4: French French phonics, but different words but.

2346
01:58:02,040 --> 01:58:04,000
Speaker 2: Different words, and so it sounds a little bit like

2347
01:58:04,040 --> 01:58:06,920
Speaker 2: French and German, like got mashed together. People who speak

2348
01:58:06,960 --> 01:58:08,960
Speaker 2: both have told me, I don't know, I'm not a

2349
01:58:09,440 --> 01:58:12,400
Speaker 2: not a language guy, but it sounds distinctive and they're

2350
01:58:12,520 --> 01:58:15,360
Speaker 2: very clearly like Again, their whole the whole industry of

2351
01:58:15,400 --> 01:58:17,800
Speaker 2: this planet is high quality textiles that come from like

2352
01:58:17,880 --> 01:58:21,880
Speaker 2: spider silk, but also clearly the the the guy who's

2353
01:58:21,960 --> 01:58:24,840
Speaker 2: leading the resistance. His business is kind of meant to

2354
01:58:24,960 --> 01:58:28,240
Speaker 2: evoke sort of like a classic like French vineyard. Like,

2355
01:58:28,360 --> 01:58:30,920
Speaker 2: so he's like he's not a poor man, right, Like.

2356
01:58:30,880 --> 01:58:34,400
Speaker 4: No, he's like he's like wealthy, he's like well off. Yes, yes,

2357
01:58:34,560 --> 01:58:36,760
Speaker 4: I mean that's a big part about like Gorman is

2358
01:58:36,800 --> 01:58:38,600
Speaker 4: this is like a you know, middle upper class like

2359
01:58:38,720 --> 01:58:39,560
Speaker 4: status planet.

2360
01:58:39,640 --> 01:58:40,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2361
01:58:40,080 --> 01:58:41,760
Speaker 4: This is like a big part of like Luthen's interest

2362
01:58:41,760 --> 01:58:43,640
Speaker 4: in the planet is if he can bring a planet

2363
01:58:43,640 --> 01:58:46,040
Speaker 4: with that status into the rebellion, that could have a

2364
01:58:46,040 --> 01:58:47,880
Speaker 4: whole bunch of advantages. And that's kind of why he's

2365
01:58:47,920 --> 01:58:50,280
Speaker 4: at least like looking into them as an option and

2366
01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:53,440
Speaker 4: eventually kind of setting them up for like an accelerationist

2367
01:58:53,480 --> 01:58:53,800
Speaker 4: to push.

2368
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:56,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I actually think it's a slightly different even

2369
01:58:56,280 --> 01:58:57,960
Speaker 2: than that. But we'll talk about that and up when

2370
01:58:57,960 --> 01:58:59,360
Speaker 2: we get to episode nine. Yeah.

2371
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:02,120
Speaker 4: Sure, there's an Iceby board meeting where they discuss a

2372
01:59:02,160 --> 01:59:05,040
Speaker 4: batch of new raids and arrests on rebel activity and

2373
01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:07,480
Speaker 4: how to deal with this influx of arrests that's making

2374
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:11,440
Speaker 4: it hard to process and obtain useful information. Luthn's Iceby

2375
01:59:11,480 --> 01:59:15,280
Speaker 4: spy informs them of the Empire's increased interest in Gorman

2376
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:18,320
Speaker 4: and that the Ice be is running covert operations on

2377
01:59:18,360 --> 01:59:23,320
Speaker 4: the planet. Meanwhile, Senator Manmathma unsuccessfully lobbies against the Emperor's

2378
01:59:23,360 --> 01:59:28,160
Speaker 4: resentencing directive, and at Saguerera's hideout, Willem teaches Saws partisans

2379
01:59:28,160 --> 01:59:30,680
Speaker 4: how to safety deploy a fuel pipeline of.

2380
01:59:30,680 --> 01:59:33,880
Speaker 2: Verter Yeah, and specifically, Saw puts him with one of

2381
01:59:33,880 --> 01:59:35,960
Speaker 2: his guys who's kind of coded as being like a

2382
01:59:36,040 --> 01:59:38,800
Speaker 2: close to Saul, Like this is somebody that he really trusts,

2383
01:59:39,400 --> 01:59:42,560
Speaker 2: and it's kind of implied fairly soon that like Saw

2384
01:59:42,640 --> 01:59:46,240
Speaker 2: doesn't want this guy going back to Luthen with information, right.

2385
01:59:46,280 --> 01:59:47,240
Speaker 4: He wants to keep Willow.

2386
01:59:47,320 --> 01:59:50,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just like kidnapping this guy. It's like, well,

2387
01:59:50,680 --> 01:59:53,200
Speaker 2: he wants to kill him at first. That's the statement

2388
01:59:53,280 --> 01:59:56,160
Speaker 2: he makes to his guy, is like, once you have

2389
01:59:56,280 --> 01:59:59,280
Speaker 2: these variations down, we're going to ice him.

2390
01:59:59,480 --> 02:00:01,520
Speaker 4: Saw does a they trusts Luthen very much anymore.

2391
02:00:01,600 --> 02:00:02,800
Speaker 3: He never did well luth.

2392
02:00:02,680 --> 02:00:05,520
Speaker 4: And slowly losing a lot of the trust that he's

2393
02:00:05,520 --> 02:00:06,880
Speaker 4: built up throughout the galaxy.

2394
02:00:07,040 --> 02:00:09,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. But like one of the things that's interesting here

2395
02:00:09,400 --> 02:00:11,840
Speaker 2: is that like we kind of see Saws paranoia where

2396
02:00:11,880 --> 02:00:13,920
Speaker 2: there's a bunch of variations you need to know to

2397
02:00:13,920 --> 02:00:16,320
Speaker 2: get fuel out of any number of different things, and

2398
02:00:16,360 --> 02:00:18,840
Speaker 2: the guys like I have to memorize too many if

2399
02:00:18,880 --> 02:00:22,120
Speaker 2: you just let us know which one we're trying to

2400
02:00:22,160 --> 02:00:24,600
Speaker 2: go after, but that would make it clear which fuel

2401
02:00:24,600 --> 02:00:26,920
Speaker 2: station they're going after, So Saw doesn't want to say

2402
02:00:26,960 --> 02:00:27,880
Speaker 2: shit initially.

2403
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:31,520
Speaker 4: So this episode we're introduced to the planet Gorman. Like

2404
02:00:31,680 --> 02:00:36,200
Speaker 4: in person, it's basically like northern Italy mixed with French culture. Yeah,

2405
02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:38,680
Speaker 4: the massive set they built is just gorgeous, a huge,

2406
02:00:39,240 --> 02:00:41,720
Speaker 4: huge town square for the capital city of Palmo.

2407
02:00:41,880 --> 02:00:45,040
Speaker 3: The amount of money they spent on this show. The

2408
02:00:45,080 --> 02:00:46,920
Speaker 3: protesters I think is really interesting.

2409
02:00:46,640 --> 02:00:48,680
Speaker 4: Because it's like protesters at like the monument of the

2410
02:00:48,720 --> 02:00:49,560
Speaker 4: Tarkan massacre.

2411
02:00:49,880 --> 02:00:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they're kind of fascinating because like the way

2412
02:00:52,840 --> 02:00:55,880
Speaker 3: that their banners are designed really really remind me of

2413
02:00:56,440 --> 02:00:59,200
Speaker 3: like pictures you see from like nineteen seventeen. It's like

2414
02:00:59,600 --> 02:01:01,960
Speaker 3: very very similar to that. And also they have a

2415
02:01:01,960 --> 02:01:04,280
Speaker 3: thing that's a very common protest thing where it's like

2416
02:01:04,320 --> 02:01:06,120
Speaker 3: there's as you know, there's protests going on, so there's

2417
02:01:06,120 --> 02:01:08,800
Speaker 3: like just like ten guys in the square all the time. Yes,

2418
02:01:08,960 --> 02:01:10,160
Speaker 3: kind of like chantons.

2419
02:01:10,680 --> 02:01:11,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, always making noise.

2420
02:01:12,120 --> 02:01:14,760
Speaker 2: They're kind of keeping a vigil because basically what happened.

2421
02:01:15,640 --> 02:01:18,160
Speaker 2: And this is another interesting Tony Gurroy is kind of

2422
02:01:18,160 --> 02:01:22,320
Speaker 2: famously not a Star Wars fan like prior to working

2423
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:23,760
Speaker 2: on this, and so there was a lot of like

2424
02:01:23,960 --> 02:01:26,720
Speaker 2: anxiety from big Star Wars nerds that like, oh, this

2425
02:01:26,760 --> 02:01:29,080
Speaker 2: isn't going to feel like Star Wars, but it clearly

2426
02:01:29,120 --> 02:01:31,880
Speaker 2: has a lot of folks who understand, not just like

2427
02:01:32,040 --> 02:01:34,720
Speaker 2: the stuff that's come out, you know, since Disney started

2428
02:01:34,720 --> 02:01:37,640
Speaker 2: in the different books and comics, but like the legend

2429
02:01:37,680 --> 02:01:41,280
Speaker 2: stuff because in Legends, like a major spark of the

2430
02:01:41,760 --> 02:01:44,920
Speaker 2: whole rebellion was the Gorman massacre, which is in tarkan Lands,

2431
02:01:45,200 --> 02:01:47,520
Speaker 2: and Tarkan's the old guy in the Death Star in

2432
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:49,840
Speaker 2: a New Hope, right, Like, he's the guy who's Darth

2433
02:01:49,920 --> 02:01:53,200
Speaker 2: Vader's boss in the first movie, and he lands a

2434
02:01:53,280 --> 02:01:55,360
Speaker 2: craft on a crowd at Gorman, And that's supposed to

2435
02:01:55,520 --> 02:01:57,520
Speaker 2: have been one of the major sparks, And they've retconned

2436
02:01:57,520 --> 02:02:00,560
Speaker 2: it a little, but to the point where that's still happened,

2437
02:02:00,560 --> 02:02:03,240
Speaker 2: but it's clearly the setup for a larger massacre that

2438
02:02:03,280 --> 02:02:04,960
Speaker 2: this season is building towards.

2439
02:02:05,280 --> 02:02:09,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, Spacebox News very good. We see the Ministry

2440
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:13,200
Speaker 4: of Enlightenment efforts to weaponize public opinion and how much

2441
02:02:13,200 --> 02:02:17,120
Speaker 4: it's working on someone on someone like Cyril's mother, who

2442
02:02:17,320 --> 02:02:20,160
Speaker 4: who then becomes convinced that like the propaganda that she's

2443
02:02:20,200 --> 02:02:22,280
Speaker 4: being fed is the stuff that she like already believed

2444
02:02:22,320 --> 02:02:25,680
Speaker 4: absolutely right, is stuff that she she's like red conned

2445
02:02:25,680 --> 02:02:27,920
Speaker 4: into her own memory of being like no, like I've

2446
02:02:28,240 --> 02:02:31,360
Speaker 4: I've always never trusted the Gore. Yeah. Meanwhile, she's like

2447
02:02:31,400 --> 02:02:33,720
Speaker 4: sitting in front of her like TV like twenty four

2448
02:02:33,720 --> 02:02:37,520
Speaker 4: to seven, watching this like the garbage get beamed into

2449
02:02:37,520 --> 02:02:37,960
Speaker 4: her brain.

2450
02:02:38,200 --> 02:02:40,640
Speaker 2: And I'm wondering, did y'all wonder for a second if

2451
02:02:40,680 --> 02:02:44,400
Speaker 2: Cyril was legitimately getting pilled by totally the GORMANSI yeah,

2452
02:02:44,400 --> 02:02:47,040
Speaker 2: because it's good. Right, there's like that moment like, well, fuck,

2453
02:02:47,120 --> 02:02:48,880
Speaker 2: is he is our boy like starting to have a

2454
02:02:48,880 --> 02:02:52,120
Speaker 2: break already, and then he realized like no, that's.

2455
02:02:52,040 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 4: That's what we're getting. Like that's kind of what's being

2456
02:02:54,160 --> 02:02:57,640
Speaker 4: set up, is like how like will will this experience

2457
02:02:58,280 --> 02:03:00,560
Speaker 4: for Cyril like change him as a person? And like,

2458
02:03:00,600 --> 02:03:02,680
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, the audience is meant to not fully

2459
02:03:02,760 --> 02:03:06,760
Speaker 4: know and I think I think it's it's definitely like possible.

2460
02:03:07,400 --> 02:03:09,160
Speaker 4: But but Cyril might be more of a hard ass

2461
02:03:09,200 --> 02:03:11,760
Speaker 4: than what some people give him credit for. Yeah, because

2462
02:03:11,800 --> 02:03:14,280
Speaker 4: he is. He's very excited to get invited to this meeting.

2463
02:03:14,720 --> 02:03:17,160
Speaker 4: He purchases a spider from one of like the Gorman

2464
02:03:17,240 --> 02:03:20,240
Speaker 4: Front like recruiters that has information on how to how

2465
02:03:20,280 --> 02:03:22,480
Speaker 4: to go to this like public town hall, where he

2466
02:03:22,520 --> 02:03:25,360
Speaker 4: talks about, hey, you know, if maybe maybe we can

2467
02:03:25,400 --> 02:03:29,160
Speaker 4: start working together, maybe we can start feeding information. One point, hilariously,

2468
02:03:29,200 --> 02:03:31,480
Speaker 4: he gets he gets accused of being an Imperial spy

2469
02:03:31,640 --> 02:03:35,240
Speaker 4: in like a joking manner yeah, and denies it, and

2470
02:03:35,240 --> 02:03:37,800
Speaker 4: then he gets on the phone with his IP girlfriends

2471
02:03:37,800 --> 02:03:39,400
Speaker 4: like I'm in also, this is this.

2472
02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:40,600
Speaker 3: Is this is one of the first times we see

2473
02:03:40,640 --> 02:03:43,840
Speaker 3: is the Gorman Front people. These people have no idea

2474
02:03:43,880 --> 02:03:46,520
Speaker 3: what the fuck they're doing. They are amateurs. They are

2475
02:03:46,680 --> 02:03:51,000
Speaker 3: like yeah, like their operational security is unbelievably dog shit.

2476
02:03:51,160 --> 02:03:53,720
Speaker 3: They like wiretapped one guy and were like, hey, let

2477
02:03:53,800 --> 02:03:56,640
Speaker 3: me introduce you to the leader of our organization. We

2478
02:03:56,760 --> 02:03:59,040
Speaker 3: have met you one time. We have listened to one

2479
02:03:59,160 --> 02:04:02,960
Speaker 3: phone call. You're in now. I just I think they

2480
02:04:03,040 --> 02:04:06,920
Speaker 3: probably listened to more than they've definitely been watching him

2481
02:04:06,960 --> 02:04:10,120
Speaker 3: for a while him much. They just were kind of like, hey,

2482
02:04:10,240 --> 02:04:11,840
Speaker 3: you're going to like meet their leader now at the

2483
02:04:11,880 --> 02:04:14,640
Speaker 3: first meeting you've shown up to he met like the

2484
02:04:14,680 --> 02:04:16,879
Speaker 3: public facing aspect, I guess.

2485
02:04:16,920 --> 02:04:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can see the Gorman like they have some

2486
02:04:20,680 --> 02:04:24,200
Speaker 2: degree of sophistication and that they're tapping like him, and

2487
02:04:24,320 --> 02:04:26,760
Speaker 2: they've been listening probably for quite a while. And they

2488
02:04:26,840 --> 02:04:29,760
Speaker 2: sweep their shit every day for bugs, so you understand that,

2489
02:04:29,880 --> 02:04:31,920
Speaker 2: like they have an idea of what they need to

2490
02:04:32,000 --> 02:04:33,520
Speaker 2: be doing. But when it comes to all of the

2491
02:04:33,680 --> 02:04:37,080
Speaker 2: in person stuff, that's where they're incompetent right where they

2492
02:04:37,280 --> 02:04:41,160
Speaker 2: they don't have the actual operational experience to know when

2493
02:04:41,280 --> 02:04:44,960
Speaker 2: someone feels off right, Like that's the stuff that they're missing,

2494
02:04:45,520 --> 02:04:47,720
Speaker 2: Like man to man on the ground is where the

2495
02:04:47,800 --> 02:04:49,760
Speaker 2: problems come in. Like you can tell they're thinking this

2496
02:04:49,840 --> 02:04:53,400
Speaker 2: stuff through, but they just don't know what they're doing enough.

2497
02:04:53,680 --> 02:04:54,920
Speaker 3: This is this is the thing you I mean, this

2498
02:04:54,960 --> 02:04:56,640
Speaker 3: is the thing you genuine wine you run into, like

2499
02:04:56,760 --> 02:04:58,440
Speaker 3: in the field a lot where there's people who like

2500
02:04:59,280 --> 02:05:01,680
Speaker 3: have read a lot of soft bought operational security but

2501
02:05:01,800 --> 02:05:04,200
Speaker 3: haven't done anything and so they don't under and there's

2502
02:05:04,200 --> 02:05:05,640
Speaker 3: there's varying levels of this, right, but you get this

2503
02:05:05,680 --> 02:05:08,960
Speaker 3: to do people where it's like they don't know what

2504
02:05:09,120 --> 02:05:12,080
Speaker 3: the important things are. So they do some of the

2505
02:05:12,160 --> 02:05:15,400
Speaker 3: stuff right that they've read, but they don't understand how

2506
02:05:15,440 --> 02:05:19,160
Speaker 3: to put all of it together to like do something securely.

2507
02:05:19,320 --> 02:05:21,200
Speaker 3: And so you'll get these things where like some of

2508
02:05:21,240 --> 02:05:23,840
Speaker 3: their stuff is like unbelievably secure to a point where

2509
02:05:23,840 --> 02:05:27,000
Speaker 3: it's useless, and then some of it is like very open. Yeah,

2510
02:05:27,440 --> 02:05:30,200
Speaker 3: they're just like hey have I don't know. Yeah, they'll

2511
02:05:30,240 --> 02:05:32,920
Speaker 3: just bring people into stuff that instantly compromises everything that

2512
02:05:32,960 --> 02:05:34,880
Speaker 3: they're doing because they haven't like thought it through.

2513
02:05:35,360 --> 02:05:37,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and this is something that that Cassian

2514
02:05:37,760 --> 02:05:40,040
Speaker 4: talks about in the next episode, which we will get

2515
02:05:40,080 --> 02:05:42,360
Speaker 4: yeah shortly. Yeah, I mean, so much of these episodes

2516
02:05:42,440 --> 02:05:46,160
Speaker 4: is built around like paranoia and like surveillance. Like Cassie's

2517
02:05:46,160 --> 02:05:48,400
Speaker 4: talking about not wanting to go like on a walk

2518
02:05:48,440 --> 02:05:50,760
Speaker 4: in the park because the Empire just put up cameras.

2519
02:05:51,160 --> 02:05:53,640
Speaker 4: He's nervous about like where they go grocery shopping. Like

2520
02:05:53,720 --> 02:05:56,800
Speaker 4: he's trying to like do everything right, but it's like

2521
02:05:56,920 --> 02:05:59,520
Speaker 4: hurting his relationship with Bicks, and it's just making their

2522
02:05:59,560 --> 02:06:02,960
Speaker 4: life like very very challenging encorre assant as they're like

2523
02:06:03,360 --> 02:06:06,400
Speaker 4: stationed there in between missions. Like meanwhile, like Luthan's just

2524
02:06:06,440 --> 02:06:08,879
Speaker 4: trying to gain as much information on Gorman as possible.

2525
02:06:09,400 --> 02:06:11,880
Speaker 4: He has a line that I like, a smear campaign

2526
02:06:11,960 --> 02:06:14,080
Speaker 4: is an opening move, not an endgame. I need the

2527
02:06:14,240 --> 02:06:17,600
Speaker 4: end game. Yeah, talking about like the limits of you know,

2528
02:06:17,760 --> 02:06:22,080
Speaker 4: the Empire's Fox News style propaganda is only is only

2529
02:06:22,240 --> 02:06:26,560
Speaker 4: like a starting position, like this is obviously leading somewhere,

2530
02:06:26,560 --> 02:06:28,200
Speaker 4: and I need to know where that is. And he's

2531
02:06:28,280 --> 02:06:30,400
Speaker 4: gonna obtain that information slowly over the course of the

2532
02:06:30,440 --> 02:06:33,000
Speaker 4: next few episodes. And then I think the other thing

2533
02:06:33,000 --> 02:06:34,400
Speaker 4: I want to talk about before we go on break

2534
02:06:34,720 --> 02:06:40,880
Speaker 4: is Mon Mathma's lobbying against like the prison sentencing guidelines.

2535
02:06:41,640 --> 02:06:45,680
Speaker 4: She says, quote sector boundaries, civil liberties, personal freedom, respect

2536
02:06:45,720 --> 02:06:48,080
Speaker 4: for local traditions. You've been voting with me on these

2537
02:06:48,160 --> 02:06:52,160
Speaker 4: issues for years. And the Gorman senator replies, this is security. Mon,

2538
02:06:52,240 --> 02:06:56,640
Speaker 4: You're confusing criminality and politics here. Mon says, really, are

2539
02:06:56,680 --> 02:06:59,640
Speaker 4: we finding criminals or are we making them? Yeah, this

2540
02:06:59,680 --> 02:07:02,640
Speaker 4: is where you see senators parenting like fake crime stats

2541
02:07:02,720 --> 02:07:04,880
Speaker 4: about how there's been like you know, this increased wage

2542
02:07:04,960 --> 02:07:06,040
Speaker 4: surgery front.

2543
02:07:06,240 --> 02:07:07,040
Speaker 3: But that's not true.

2544
02:07:07,240 --> 02:07:10,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, because just because just because they're arresting more peoples,

2545
02:07:10,600 --> 02:07:12,400
Speaker 4: that makes there be more crime. And like you see

2546
02:07:12,440 --> 02:07:15,640
Speaker 4: this in season one where Cassidean's arrested at the Beach

2547
02:07:15,680 --> 02:07:17,680
Speaker 4: planet for like no reason and then sentenced to the

2548
02:07:17,760 --> 02:07:20,640
Speaker 4: Forever prison. Yeah, like, yeah, they are arresting more people.

2549
02:07:20,800 --> 02:07:23,400
Speaker 4: So if you just look at those stats by itself

2550
02:07:23,440 --> 02:07:26,600
Speaker 4: without any context on like how how other policing is working,

2551
02:07:26,800 --> 02:07:28,280
Speaker 4: then yeah, I can look a certain way. And this

2552
02:07:28,360 --> 02:07:30,680
Speaker 4: is what Mon's trying to push back on. And and

2553
02:07:30,840 --> 02:07:33,560
Speaker 4: the other senators are just too like bought into the

2554
02:07:33,600 --> 02:07:36,800
Speaker 4: empire or too scared, like the Gorman senator believes that

2555
02:07:37,040 --> 02:07:40,000
Speaker 4: voting against the emperor at this point would further endanger

2556
02:07:40,080 --> 02:07:42,440
Speaker 4: his planet. Yeah, even though this type of thing is

2557
02:07:42,480 --> 02:07:44,240
Speaker 4: actually going to end up biting him in the ass

2558
02:07:44,280 --> 02:07:45,080
Speaker 4: in the next few years.

2559
02:07:45,200 --> 02:07:49,120
Speaker 2: Yes, And yeah, he is like very much desperate to like, no, please,

2560
02:07:49,200 --> 02:07:51,320
Speaker 2: we can we can calm this down if we just

2561
02:07:51,400 --> 02:07:52,920
Speaker 2: don't piss the empire off enough.

2562
02:07:53,240 --> 02:07:53,280
Speaker 6: No.

2563
02:07:54,400 --> 02:07:56,200
Speaker 3: The the thing I think is actually it's interesting about

2564
02:07:56,200 --> 02:07:58,680
Speaker 3: the crime statistic stuff is that this is actually a

2565
02:07:58,760 --> 02:08:01,920
Speaker 3: more sophisticated operation than what happened in real life. We're

2566
02:08:01,960 --> 02:08:03,960
Speaker 3: in real life. All the actual crime statistics were like

2567
02:08:04,040 --> 02:08:06,040
Speaker 3: crime is falling, but everyone just kept saying there was

2568
02:08:06,080 --> 02:08:09,160
Speaker 3: more crime. Totally, yeah, totally, this is like arresting more

2569
02:08:09,200 --> 02:08:11,600
Speaker 3: people to jack the crime rates. That he's a more

2570
02:08:11,640 --> 02:08:15,000
Speaker 3: sophisticated thing than what we actually dealt with, which was

2571
02:08:15,200 --> 02:08:16,240
Speaker 3: the media just love.

2572
02:08:16,240 --> 02:08:20,120
Speaker 4: Our own version of this are not outer space version

2573
02:08:20,240 --> 02:08:23,480
Speaker 4: of like propaganda news. Media can just say something and

2574
02:08:23,560 --> 02:08:25,400
Speaker 4: you don't even need this stats to back it up. Yeah,

2575
02:08:25,520 --> 02:08:26,920
Speaker 4: let's go and break and we'll come back to talk

2576
02:08:26,960 --> 02:08:43,480
Speaker 4: about episode five. I have friends everywhere, ah, and we're back.

2577
02:08:44,880 --> 02:08:45,040
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2578
02:08:45,120 --> 02:08:47,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, let's start with the summary of this episode.

2579
02:08:48,080 --> 02:08:51,440
Speaker 4: All right, Luthen wants a first person assessment of the

2580
02:08:51,520 --> 02:08:54,520
Speaker 4: Gorman front, but he's like too high profile to go himself,

2581
02:08:54,600 --> 02:08:58,720
Speaker 4: so he sends Cassie and undercover as fashion designer Vary

2582
02:08:58,800 --> 02:09:02,760
Speaker 4: in Sky. The ISB stages a performative raid of Cyril

2583
02:09:02,840 --> 02:09:06,320
Speaker 4: Karan's office to gain more cred with local rebels as

2584
02:09:06,400 --> 02:09:09,120
Speaker 4: Cyril begins to feed them select information.

2585
02:09:08,960 --> 02:09:10,880
Speaker 2: And he does such a good job of seeming pissed

2586
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:11,120
Speaker 2: at it.

2587
02:09:11,520 --> 02:09:14,640
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he loves he loves pretending to be pissed

2588
02:09:14,640 --> 02:09:16,680
Speaker 4: at the ISB. He has so much fun kicking his

2589
02:09:16,800 --> 02:09:17,760
Speaker 4: little trash can.

2590
02:09:17,680 --> 02:09:18,440
Speaker 2: Across the room.

2591
02:09:20,120 --> 02:09:24,400
Speaker 4: This is outrageous. Yeah, very good stuff. And I do like, like, yeah,

2592
02:09:24,440 --> 02:09:27,680
Speaker 4: like the weaponization of like state repression as a tactic

2593
02:09:27,800 --> 02:09:31,520
Speaker 4: to actually increase state repression, like long term doing this

2594
02:09:31,680 --> 02:09:34,400
Speaker 4: like performative show so that Cyril like builds trust and

2595
02:09:34,480 --> 02:09:38,680
Speaker 4: like solidarity with the other rebels. Very good. Luthen visits

2596
02:09:38,840 --> 02:09:40,960
Speaker 4: Bicks at the safe house and grows concern for her

2597
02:09:41,000 --> 02:09:44,120
Speaker 4: well being as she uses space drugs to cope with trauma.

2598
02:09:44,320 --> 02:09:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2599
02:09:44,640 --> 02:09:47,240
Speaker 4: Cyril arrives back on Courissant to report to ice by Command,

2600
02:09:47,960 --> 02:09:51,120
Speaker 4: has a one hour meeting with his girlfriend where they

2601
02:09:51,160 --> 02:09:51,880
Speaker 4: turn off the lights.

2602
02:09:52,000 --> 02:09:55,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, after arguing because she's had him followed.

2603
02:09:58,320 --> 02:09:59,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's a little bit pissed that she's having a

2604
02:10:00,120 --> 02:10:02,280
Speaker 4: followed and then she orders into trount the lights and

2605
02:10:02,320 --> 02:10:04,240
Speaker 4: then they do something for an hour in their apartment.

2606
02:10:05,440 --> 02:10:08,640
Speaker 3: God only knows. I don't want to know. I don't

2607
02:10:08,640 --> 02:10:11,000
Speaker 3: want to know what they're enough to this fascist weirdness.

2608
02:10:12,200 --> 02:10:15,320
Speaker 4: But at V Command they plan how to like carefully

2609
02:10:15,440 --> 02:10:18,000
Speaker 4: push the Gorman Front into taking action against the Empire.

2610
02:10:18,520 --> 02:10:22,360
Speaker 4: Cassian makes contact on Gorman and is unimpressed with their

2611
02:10:22,440 --> 02:10:27,040
Speaker 4: operational security, and Warren's against trusting an imperial source as

2612
02:10:27,120 --> 02:10:29,320
Speaker 4: the ISB could be feeding false intel.

2613
02:10:29,520 --> 02:10:32,000
Speaker 2: Some of the best moments in the episode so far,

2614
02:10:32,240 --> 02:10:35,800
Speaker 2: because it's it's they don't know shit about Cassian, so

2615
02:10:35,920 --> 02:10:38,520
Speaker 2: they don't know who they're talking to, and when he's like,

2616
02:10:38,640 --> 02:10:41,560
Speaker 2: you guys shouldn't do fuck right now because you don't

2617
02:10:41,640 --> 02:10:43,920
Speaker 2: know shit about fuck, they're like, well, you're not a

2618
02:10:44,000 --> 02:10:45,760
Speaker 2: real revolutionary.

2619
02:10:45,560 --> 02:10:48,600
Speaker 4: You don't get it, and like, honestly, I understand what

2620
02:10:49,320 --> 02:10:51,520
Speaker 4: what's being expressed there too, and like, well, we'll get

2621
02:10:51,520 --> 02:10:54,480
Speaker 4: ahead in a sec Like the Gorman Front is adamant

2622
02:10:54,600 --> 02:10:56,720
Speaker 4: that their source is vetted and reliable, even though they

2623
02:10:56,760 --> 02:10:57,720
Speaker 4: haven't really been vetted.

2624
02:10:58,080 --> 02:11:01,120
Speaker 3: The plan is is that the resistance seeks.

2625
02:11:00,880 --> 02:11:04,080
Speaker 4: To expose the construction of an imperial military based on Palmo,

2626
02:11:04,400 --> 02:11:07,280
Speaker 4: something that the Empire denies, though it seems most of

2627
02:11:07,320 --> 02:11:10,720
Speaker 4: the citizens actually already take this to be true and

2628
02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:14,400
Speaker 4: or questions the necessity of this plan and relations sour

2629
02:11:14,520 --> 02:11:18,080
Speaker 4: with the group. Back on Corriscant, Clea learns through radio

2630
02:11:18,200 --> 02:11:21,680
Speaker 4: chatter that one of Luthan's listening devices may be discovered

2631
02:11:21,840 --> 02:11:26,120
Speaker 4: during an artifact reappraisal, Saw Hills, an imperial spy, and

2632
02:11:26,200 --> 02:11:30,720
Speaker 4: his crew forcibly recruits Willem, and while on mission installing

2633
02:11:30,800 --> 02:11:34,680
Speaker 4: a fuel diverter, Saw convinces Willem to huff the fuel fumes.

2634
02:11:34,840 --> 02:11:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll talk about that in a second.

2635
02:11:37,360 --> 02:11:39,800
Speaker 4: I want to talk a little bit about like Cassian

2636
02:11:39,880 --> 02:11:42,880
Speaker 4: on Gorman. Yes, and there's there's a lot of interesting

2637
02:11:42,920 --> 02:11:46,360
Speaker 4: stuff there, and like specifically when the Gorman Front leader

2638
02:11:46,440 --> 02:11:49,040
Speaker 4: like calls Cassian out for like not being a real revolutionary,

2639
02:11:49,200 --> 02:11:51,760
Speaker 4: which I think is kind of true. Like Cassia at

2640
02:11:51,800 --> 02:11:54,520
Speaker 4: this point is a thief and a soldier. He thinks

2641
02:11:54,560 --> 02:11:58,280
Speaker 4: about things purely from that like operationally like like tactical

2642
02:11:58,320 --> 02:12:01,160
Speaker 4: point of view. He doesn't have like a large like politics.

2643
02:12:01,200 --> 02:12:03,720
Speaker 4: He's like focused on right, like like Luthan is more

2644
02:12:03,760 --> 02:12:07,240
Speaker 4: of like a revolutionary, a very like manipulative one, but

2645
02:12:07,400 --> 02:12:09,680
Speaker 4: like he is focused on like this like larger political game.

2646
02:12:10,120 --> 02:12:12,080
Speaker 4: And this is something that at this point Cassian's not

2647
02:12:12,240 --> 02:12:14,560
Speaker 4: fully like interested in. He's more interested on like on

2648
02:12:14,640 --> 02:12:16,600
Speaker 4: the ground like tactical preparedness.

2649
02:12:16,760 --> 02:12:19,680
Speaker 2: He is interested in what he can do and get

2650
02:12:19,760 --> 02:12:24,800
Speaker 2: away with right exactly as opposed to Luthen is interested

2651
02:12:24,960 --> 02:12:27,320
Speaker 2: in what does more damage to the Empire. Now, what's

2652
02:12:27,360 --> 02:12:30,120
Speaker 2: interesting to me is that the Gorman Front are actually

2653
02:12:30,360 --> 02:12:33,360
Speaker 2: in the middle. They think totally that they are willing

2654
02:12:33,480 --> 02:12:36,680
Speaker 2: to do whatever, but they don't understand what that is.

2655
02:12:36,800 --> 02:12:39,680
Speaker 2: And part of what you are seeing here is the

2656
02:12:39,760 --> 02:12:43,040
Speaker 2: Gorman Front are adamant, we are ready for war. We're

2657
02:12:43,120 --> 02:12:46,440
Speaker 2: already in a war. Yeah, and they're not technically wrong

2658
02:12:46,520 --> 02:12:49,200
Speaker 2: about that because the Empire is planning to wipe them out.

2659
02:12:49,400 --> 02:12:49,560
Speaker 12: Right.

2660
02:12:49,680 --> 02:12:52,600
Speaker 2: We know the Empire does not plan for there to

2661
02:12:52,680 --> 02:12:55,000
Speaker 2: be a Gorman in the future. So the stakes are

2662
02:12:55,520 --> 02:12:58,440
Speaker 2: where they're saying they are. But even though they're saying that,

2663
02:12:59,040 --> 02:13:02,080
Speaker 2: most of them don't truly believe or understand it. And

2664
02:13:02,280 --> 02:13:05,040
Speaker 2: Cassian understands what war is, and what he is telling

2665
02:13:05,080 --> 02:13:06,720
Speaker 2: them is that you are and he's at right about this.

2666
02:13:07,120 --> 02:13:10,080
Speaker 2: You are not ready for what you think you're ready

2667
02:13:10,160 --> 02:13:13,440
Speaker 2: for totally because what you're going to do is die

2668
02:13:13,880 --> 02:13:14,320
Speaker 2: all of you.

2669
02:13:15,120 --> 02:13:17,240
Speaker 4: That's what makes all their interactions so interesting, because there

2670
02:13:17,280 --> 02:13:21,040
Speaker 4: is that unspoken tension which slowly gets like aired because

2671
02:13:21,080 --> 02:13:23,560
Speaker 4: like they're really assessing different things, Like what Cassie's assessing

2672
02:13:23,680 --> 02:13:26,160
Speaker 4: is different from what Lusen wants assessed, and that's different

2673
02:13:26,200 --> 02:13:28,400
Speaker 4: from what the Gorman Front actually want to do. Like

2674
02:13:28,440 --> 02:13:31,480
Speaker 4: they're okay with a degree of casualties like being had

2675
02:13:31,880 --> 02:13:34,480
Speaker 4: because they just want to like have control over their

2676
02:13:34,520 --> 02:13:36,800
Speaker 4: planet again and put up any resistance even if it

2677
02:13:36,920 --> 02:13:38,400
Speaker 4: ends up like leading to hardship.

2678
02:13:38,720 --> 02:13:40,200
Speaker 3: But I think the other angle of that too, though,

2679
02:13:40,280 --> 02:13:43,480
Speaker 3: is it like they don't know what they're doing right, No,

2680
02:13:43,760 --> 02:13:47,080
Speaker 3: Like they like their plan, their plan is not genuinely

2681
02:13:47,200 --> 02:13:50,760
Speaker 3: really bad, right. Like the plan is that they want

2682
02:13:50,800 --> 02:13:53,760
Speaker 3: to like steal an imperial weapons shipment and then reveal

2683
02:13:53,840 --> 02:13:56,160
Speaker 3: that the Empire shipping weapons in. But if you do

2684
02:13:56,280 --> 02:13:58,280
Speaker 3: that then you've just like and Andrew points it out,

2685
02:13:58,360 --> 02:14:00,320
Speaker 3: like okay, so if you do this, then you reveal

2686
02:14:00,440 --> 02:14:03,840
Speaker 3: that you did you hijacked the shipment, So they're just

2687
02:14:03,920 --> 02:14:05,880
Speaker 3: going to like raid you all.

2688
02:14:05,920 --> 02:14:08,600
Speaker 4: And they're okay with you. Yeah, And they're like okay

2689
02:14:08,680 --> 02:14:10,080
Speaker 4: with that visibility at this point.

2690
02:14:10,360 --> 02:14:13,240
Speaker 2: And there's this this very standard. It's also this very

2691
02:14:13,360 --> 02:14:15,880
Speaker 2: common and this is part of what Casside recognizes, this

2692
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:19,080
Speaker 2: common myopic thing that you get with people who again

2693
02:14:19,840 --> 02:14:23,080
Speaker 2: think they want a war that they don't truly understand

2694
02:14:23,360 --> 02:14:26,240
Speaker 2: the meaning of, where they're like, we need we need

2695
02:14:26,400 --> 02:14:28,520
Speaker 2: weapons and when they think of weapons. They think of

2696
02:14:28,640 --> 02:14:30,680
Speaker 2: guns that they can hold, and so that's what they're

2697
02:14:30,720 --> 02:14:32,960
Speaker 2: focused on getting, and that's what they think will let

2698
02:14:33,040 --> 02:14:37,400
Speaker 2: them fight the Empire. When Casside understands there's no fighting

2699
02:14:37,480 --> 02:14:39,880
Speaker 2: the Empire with what you can possibly get from a

2700
02:14:40,000 --> 02:14:43,320
Speaker 2: raid like this. All there is is suicide. And then

2701
02:14:43,440 --> 02:14:45,760
Speaker 2: there's the other level of what Luthan understands.

2702
02:14:45,400 --> 02:14:48,200
Speaker 4: Is so the fuck what sometimes that needs to happen.

2703
02:14:48,320 --> 02:14:51,320
Speaker 2: What matters is that these people die in public and

2704
02:14:51,440 --> 02:14:54,800
Speaker 2: it pisses people off. Yeah, right, And that's there's this

2705
02:14:55,000 --> 02:14:58,480
Speaker 2: there's this escalation of like the Gormans think having guns

2706
02:14:58,680 --> 02:14:59,880
Speaker 2: means you can fight back.

2707
02:15:00,200 --> 02:15:02,520
Speaker 4: Like guns guns means that they'll be safer, right.

2708
02:15:02,720 --> 02:15:06,560
Speaker 2: And they're wrong. Cassie and thinks staying alive for a

2709
02:15:06,640 --> 02:15:09,000
Speaker 2: future moment means that you can fight back, and he

2710
02:15:09,240 --> 02:15:13,320
Speaker 2: is wrong. Luthan understands that the only ammunition that really

2711
02:15:13,400 --> 02:15:16,120
Speaker 2: counts in this war is human life, and that sucks,

2712
02:15:17,360 --> 02:15:21,080
Speaker 2: and that sucks. That's why he's lost his mind and soul.

2713
02:15:21,360 --> 02:15:23,160
Speaker 4: Yes, and that's why people are starting to really like

2714
02:15:23,360 --> 02:15:25,680
Speaker 4: dislike working with him. Yes, because he's even though he

2715
02:15:25,800 --> 02:15:28,920
Speaker 4: might not be like completely wrong here, Yeah, I like

2716
02:15:29,120 --> 02:15:31,640
Speaker 4: so much of this episode is built around finding bugs. Yeah,

2717
02:15:31,760 --> 02:15:34,440
Speaker 4: the ISB looks for bugs in Cyro's office, the iceba's

2718
02:15:34,480 --> 02:15:37,200
Speaker 4: planting bugs in Zero's office. Bugs are hidden in the

2719
02:15:37,320 --> 02:15:41,240
Speaker 4: artifacts that Luthen's telling to high society. Everyone's listening, everyone's

2720
02:15:41,240 --> 02:15:43,400
Speaker 4: always everyone's trying to collect more intel, and.

2721
02:15:43,480 --> 02:15:47,280
Speaker 2: There's this this this issue the Empire and Luthen's organization

2722
02:15:47,360 --> 02:15:49,400
Speaker 2: of having with like we're getting too much, you know.

2723
02:15:49,480 --> 02:15:52,840
Speaker 2: The Empire's like we're releasting too many people like Yah

2724
02:15:53,080 --> 02:15:55,160
Speaker 2: number one. It's like cutting into our ability to get

2725
02:15:55,200 --> 02:15:58,320
Speaker 2: into these organizations. And it also is just like we're drowning.

2726
02:15:58,440 --> 02:16:01,840
Speaker 2: And Luthen says the same thing. I'm always spacing on

2727
02:16:01,920 --> 02:16:05,200
Speaker 2: her name, but she's wonderful to his his his college lady,

2728
02:16:05,520 --> 02:16:07,360
Speaker 2: Like we're drowning, we have too much shit.

2729
02:16:08,400 --> 02:16:11,600
Speaker 4: Yeah. Something I love is when when Cyril's talking with

2730
02:16:11,680 --> 02:16:13,960
Speaker 4: the Gorman Front about the ISB rate of his office,

2731
02:16:14,360 --> 02:16:17,360
Speaker 4: the Gorman Front remarks, quote, we think the ISB is

2732
02:16:17,400 --> 02:16:20,720
Speaker 4: running a shadow government without the Emperor's.

2733
02:16:20,640 --> 02:16:24,240
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and it's a real you hear this when

2734
02:16:24,280 --> 02:16:27,440
Speaker 2: you read about histories of like Tsarist Russia, like even

2735
02:16:27,480 --> 02:16:29,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people who take part in the nineteen

2736
02:16:29,160 --> 02:16:31,640
Speaker 2: seventeen revolution right right up till it started. Their attitude

2737
02:16:31,720 --> 02:16:33,600
Speaker 2: was like, oh, if the Czar knew what his advisors

2738
02:16:33,640 --> 02:16:35,480
Speaker 2: were doing in his name, he'd exactly it'd be on

2739
02:16:35,560 --> 02:16:37,720
Speaker 2: our side. And the same thing happened in the Third Reich.

2740
02:16:38,040 --> 02:16:40,920
Speaker 2: If only Hitler knew was a common phrase. We're like, well, Hitler,

2741
02:16:41,280 --> 02:16:43,560
Speaker 2: who doesn't know the Gestapo's doing all these awful things?

2742
02:16:43,640 --> 02:16:46,840
Speaker 4: Of course, Yeah, And it's it's so sad because like

2743
02:16:46,920 --> 02:16:50,200
Speaker 4: this is this is their like local like resistance group

2744
02:16:50,240 --> 02:16:52,560
Speaker 4: who still has that level of delusion because they come

2745
02:16:52,600 --> 02:16:54,280
Speaker 4: from like high society, right, they come from this like

2746
02:16:54,360 --> 02:16:57,480
Speaker 4: diplomatic background where they can like solve solved through through

2747
02:16:57,560 --> 02:17:00,320
Speaker 4: like free trade. And they're like like, sure, surely, surely

2748
02:17:00,320 --> 02:17:02,320
Speaker 4: the Emperor doesn't actually know what's going on here. It

2749
02:17:02,440 --> 02:17:04,480
Speaker 4: must it must be like the CIA, it must be

2750
02:17:04,520 --> 02:17:06,760
Speaker 4: the FBI. It's like the I s B is running

2751
02:17:06,920 --> 02:17:09,080
Speaker 4: a shadow government. They're the ones that are actually like

2752
02:17:09,200 --> 02:17:12,080
Speaker 4: ruining things. Yes, and you're like, no, your enemy is

2753
02:17:12,160 --> 02:17:15,080
Speaker 4: the entire empire. Yes, your enemy is the ISB, but

2754
02:17:15,160 --> 02:17:18,480
Speaker 4: it's also Cyril karn and it's also Emperor Palpatine.

2755
02:17:18,600 --> 02:17:20,879
Speaker 2: Yes, And I love that's part of What I love

2756
02:17:20,920 --> 02:17:24,280
Speaker 2: about that that laddered interaction between them and Cassian and

2757
02:17:24,360 --> 02:17:28,680
Speaker 2: Cassian and Luthan is they're not really revolutionaries either. They

2758
02:17:29,120 --> 02:17:32,280
Speaker 2: they are protesters right totally. They still think that the

2759
02:17:32,400 --> 02:17:36,080
Speaker 2: overall Empire, once it realizes how bad things are, will

2760
02:17:36,120 --> 02:17:39,440
Speaker 2: be on their side, and Cassian thinks they can wait. Yeah,

2761
02:17:39,480 --> 02:17:41,600
Speaker 2: it's it's Luthan who's like, no, no, no, there's one

2762
02:17:41,640 --> 02:17:44,480
Speaker 2: way out, right, you know, back going back to season one,

2763
02:17:44,560 --> 02:17:45,480
Speaker 2: there's one way out.

2764
02:17:47,040 --> 02:17:49,800
Speaker 4: Before we talk about the Sagerera stuff at the end,

2765
02:17:50,120 --> 02:17:52,640
Speaker 4: I do want to point out how wonderful it was

2766
02:17:52,720 --> 02:17:56,200
Speaker 4: to see Cyril Karn in the ISB control room where

2767
02:17:56,240 --> 02:17:59,160
Speaker 4: he remarks that this is the greatest day of his life.

2768
02:17:59,280 --> 02:18:00,920
Speaker 2: Oh god, just.

2769
02:18:02,840 --> 02:18:04,840
Speaker 3: It's like Libby finally getting to spy.

2770
02:18:05,120 --> 02:18:07,600
Speaker 2: And part of Guys even makes that great, that great

2771
02:18:07,680 --> 02:18:10,760
Speaker 2: comment where he's directly talking about the Gorman Front and

2772
02:18:10,840 --> 02:18:12,840
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, there's a lot of people who think

2773
02:18:12,920 --> 02:18:15,720
Speaker 2: they understand shit better than they do because they're new

2774
02:18:15,760 --> 02:18:19,359
Speaker 2: to it. But he's also he's clearly talking to Cyril

2775
02:18:19,640 --> 02:18:22,600
Speaker 2: like you don't know what you're doing, but I'll use you.

2776
02:18:22,879 --> 02:18:23,199
Speaker 3: Fine.

2777
02:18:23,640 --> 02:18:27,960
Speaker 4: It's so good. Cyril gains cred amongst the Gorman front

2778
02:18:28,040 --> 02:18:30,240
Speaker 4: when they find out that his background is that he

2779
02:18:30,320 --> 02:18:32,680
Speaker 4: lost his job because the ISB found out how badly

2780
02:18:32,760 --> 02:18:36,240
Speaker 4: he fucked up Ferriks like they're like, ah, I see,

2781
02:18:36,480 --> 02:18:39,360
Speaker 4: Cyril must have good reason to hate the Empire because

2782
02:18:39,400 --> 02:18:39,600
Speaker 4: of that.

2783
02:18:40,080 --> 02:18:42,480
Speaker 3: You're like, no, he's like the fuckers.

2784
02:18:42,600 --> 02:18:46,480
Speaker 4: He's desperately trying to like become some like ISB secret agent.

2785
02:18:46,600 --> 02:18:46,800
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2786
02:18:47,200 --> 02:18:50,680
Speaker 4: Like he just wants approval from like the Daddy state,

2787
02:18:50,879 --> 02:18:51,760
Speaker 4: like and from.

2788
02:18:51,600 --> 02:18:54,959
Speaker 2: His girlfriend right and has taken over for his mom

2789
02:18:55,200 --> 02:18:58,320
Speaker 2: in being like the primary source the person he's trying

2790
02:18:58,360 --> 02:18:58,920
Speaker 2: to impress.

2791
02:18:59,560 --> 02:19:01,760
Speaker 4: The last we're talking about in this episode is this

2792
02:19:01,920 --> 02:19:05,120
Speaker 4: episode displays like two different types of drug use. Yes,

2793
02:19:05,200 --> 02:19:08,200
Speaker 4: we have we have Bix, who's trying to get over

2794
02:19:08,440 --> 02:19:10,560
Speaker 4: the immense amount of fucked up stuff that's happened to

2795
02:19:10,600 --> 02:19:13,280
Speaker 4: her by taking space XENX if you will.

2796
02:19:13,640 --> 02:19:16,720
Speaker 2: She's barred out every night holding a gun, watching TV

2797
02:19:17,000 --> 02:19:19,480
Speaker 2: and Y and it's like who amongst us?

2798
02:19:21,760 --> 02:19:24,200
Speaker 4: It is disrupting her personal life. It's also disrupting her

2799
02:19:24,280 --> 02:19:25,879
Speaker 4: like operational capacity.

2800
02:19:26,240 --> 02:19:28,520
Speaker 2: She has been sent out in the recent past and

2801
02:19:28,600 --> 02:19:31,240
Speaker 2: she can't be sent back out again. And the specific

2802
02:19:31,320 --> 02:19:34,440
Speaker 2: we don't even see the mission that most recently fucked

2803
02:19:34,440 --> 02:19:36,720
Speaker 2: her up, but we're through her nightmares were lid to

2804
02:19:36,800 --> 02:19:39,920
Speaker 2: In first, she and Cassie and captured an Imperial pilot

2805
02:19:40,240 --> 02:19:43,160
Speaker 2: and Cassian killed the guy because he'd seen her face,

2806
02:19:43,680 --> 02:19:46,440
Speaker 2: and she's, in addition to having been tortured in season one,

2807
02:19:46,480 --> 02:19:48,360
Speaker 2: fucked up because like we didn't need to kill him,

2808
02:19:48,400 --> 02:19:53,560
Speaker 2: and Cassiean's like, yeah we did, Like he saw your face.

2809
02:19:53,879 --> 02:19:54,200
Speaker 3: That's it.

2810
02:19:55,080 --> 02:19:57,600
Speaker 4: The weight of Resistance is really getting to Bix. Yeah,

2811
02:19:57,760 --> 02:19:59,560
Speaker 4: and like like Luthen comes over to like check on

2812
02:19:59,640 --> 02:20:01,320
Speaker 4: her and so like see if she's able to like

2813
02:20:01,440 --> 02:20:03,640
Speaker 4: work and see if she can like appraise some like

2814
02:20:03,680 --> 02:20:06,800
Speaker 4: weapons or something, and he realizes like she is not

2815
02:20:07,000 --> 02:20:10,000
Speaker 4: like well enough to work at this point, Yeah, and

2816
02:20:10,360 --> 02:20:13,520
Speaker 4: becomes like getting worried for her and like like try

2817
02:20:13,560 --> 02:20:15,080
Speaker 4: to like plead with her, like you have to. You

2818
02:20:15,160 --> 02:20:17,160
Speaker 4: have to make sure that you like stay healthy. I

2819
02:20:17,160 --> 02:20:19,560
Speaker 4: don't know, it's it's it's definitely it's it's definitely hard

2820
02:20:19,600 --> 02:20:21,840
Speaker 4: to watch. I think this is definitely like this moment.

2821
02:20:22,720 --> 02:20:24,640
Speaker 4: It's like I don't look. Bix has always had a

2822
02:20:24,720 --> 02:20:26,600
Speaker 4: lot of agency taken away from her, Like we see

2823
02:20:26,640 --> 02:20:28,360
Speaker 4: this like in season one and we see this kind

2824
02:20:28,400 --> 02:20:30,920
Speaker 4: of now and I definitely would like to would like

2825
02:20:30,959 --> 02:20:32,760
Speaker 4: to see her get put back in like the driver's

2826
02:20:32,760 --> 02:20:35,000
Speaker 4: seat of her own life at a certain point. But

2827
02:20:35,240 --> 02:20:37,920
Speaker 4: like like like living through like PTSD and living through

2828
02:20:38,280 --> 02:20:40,240
Speaker 4: like these types of like you know, political movements does

2829
02:20:40,560 --> 02:20:43,120
Speaker 4: does like destroy people and like this does happen well, and.

2830
02:20:43,400 --> 02:20:47,400
Speaker 2: Just what torture does, right, Like, Yeah, torture breaks people,

2831
02:20:47,560 --> 02:20:48,920
Speaker 2: that's its purpose, you know.

2832
02:20:49,560 --> 02:20:52,959
Speaker 3: So we have Space n X and then we have Sagerera. Yeah,

2833
02:20:53,080 --> 02:20:53,840
Speaker 3: we fucking do.

2834
02:20:54,240 --> 02:20:56,199
Speaker 2: So let's I want to talk a little bit about

2835
02:20:56,240 --> 02:20:58,440
Speaker 2: his background, some stuff that's not in the show, and

2836
02:20:58,520 --> 02:21:00,440
Speaker 2: the show you see him when we when he is

2837
02:21:00,480 --> 02:21:03,400
Speaker 2: already basically the hardest son of a bitch in the rebellion, right,

2838
02:21:04,320 --> 02:21:06,400
Speaker 2: he is the only leader of a rebel faction that

2839
02:21:06,520 --> 02:21:09,120
Speaker 2: Luthen treats as an equal. Right where like Luthan is

2840
02:21:09,200 --> 02:21:11,480
Speaker 2: meeting with him, we see Luthan meeting with him directly.

2841
02:21:11,879 --> 02:21:14,640
Speaker 2: Luthen is not willing to sacrifice he and his men

2842
02:21:14,959 --> 02:21:18,119
Speaker 2: and like in order to maintain the cover of a spy.

2843
02:21:18,040 --> 02:21:20,119
Speaker 4: Which he is serious mien.

2844
02:21:20,400 --> 02:21:23,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are serious there, and every time we see

2845
02:21:23,320 --> 02:21:25,320
Speaker 2: them there's more of them and they have more ships

2846
02:21:25,320 --> 02:21:27,320
Speaker 2: they're the first ones. They're the first rebels to use

2847
02:21:27,320 --> 02:21:30,959
Speaker 2: ex qust ones to X wings, yeah and saws background

2848
02:21:31,040 --> 02:21:32,760
Speaker 2: and you have. This is way a bunch of the

2849
02:21:32,840 --> 02:21:36,680
Speaker 2: expanded stuff. But he's he started out as essentially a

2850
02:21:36,760 --> 02:21:39,920
Speaker 2: local rebel on this planet during the Clone Wars that

2851
02:21:40,200 --> 02:21:44,119
Speaker 2: was not aligned between either major faction, but basically the Jedi,

2852
02:21:44,320 --> 02:21:47,920
Speaker 2: taking the role of Space Cia, armed him and his

2853
02:21:48,120 --> 02:21:51,560
Speaker 2: sister to lead like a rebel group against the other

2854
02:21:51,800 --> 02:21:53,960
Speaker 2: power they were fighting in the Clone Wars occupation, like

2855
02:21:54,000 --> 02:21:58,000
Speaker 2: separatist forces. He was meant to be Mujahideen coded right initially, right,

2856
02:21:58,120 --> 02:22:00,560
Speaker 2: So he's like a space musja Hideen who's armed by

2857
02:22:00,600 --> 02:22:03,400
Speaker 2: the Space Cia, who are the Jedi. And then when

2858
02:22:03,640 --> 02:22:07,640
Speaker 2: the Republic ends, he immediately starts fighting the Empire. And

2859
02:22:08,120 --> 02:22:10,680
Speaker 2: one of the kind of like moments that form saw

2860
02:22:10,800 --> 02:22:13,880
Speaker 2: is his sister dies in the process of this failed

2861
02:22:13,879 --> 02:22:17,360
Speaker 2: attempt to gain independence for their homeworld, this place called Hoduran.

2862
02:22:17,560 --> 02:22:17,680
Speaker 6: Right.

2863
02:22:18,160 --> 02:22:20,360
Speaker 2: You don't need to know any of that to perfectly

2864
02:22:20,480 --> 02:22:23,520
Speaker 2: get and enjoy his character in these shows, but the

2865
02:22:23,640 --> 02:22:26,160
Speaker 2: moment that we're talked about to talk about means more

2866
02:22:26,240 --> 02:22:29,240
Speaker 2: if you understand his backstory with his sister, right.

2867
02:22:29,360 --> 02:22:31,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's been doing this ever since he was

2868
02:22:31,640 --> 02:22:32,000
Speaker 4: like a kid.

2869
02:22:32,360 --> 02:22:34,760
Speaker 2: Yes, and yet this has been his whole life, right,

2870
02:22:35,000 --> 02:22:37,119
Speaker 2: I think he's supposed to be like forty six when

2871
02:22:37,160 --> 02:22:40,760
Speaker 2: he dies in Rogue one had forty six. If you

2872
02:22:40,959 --> 02:22:43,760
Speaker 2: look at him, you know, he looks clearly older, but

2873
02:22:43,840 --> 02:22:47,080
Speaker 2: also he looks like, well, yeah, he's been fighting his

2874
02:22:47,360 --> 02:22:50,920
Speaker 2: entire life. That age is a teacher and he has this.

2875
02:22:51,200 --> 02:22:53,279
Speaker 2: So the first thing that he does is he executes

2876
02:22:53,320 --> 02:22:55,440
Speaker 2: this guy who was set up as his friend. When

2877
02:22:55,440 --> 02:22:57,760
Speaker 2: it becomes clear that that guy was a spy and

2878
02:22:57,879 --> 02:22:59,959
Speaker 2: it's insinuated, he thinks it's a spy for the Empire.

2879
02:23:00,360 --> 02:23:02,040
Speaker 2: That guy might have been a spy for Lutheran or

2880
02:23:02,080 --> 02:23:04,200
Speaker 2: someone else. We don't actually know. We know he was

2881
02:23:04,280 --> 02:23:05,560
Speaker 2: sending info to someone.

2882
02:23:05,840 --> 02:23:08,680
Speaker 4: He was transmitting, Yeah, saw things that they were going

2883
02:23:08,720 --> 02:23:11,440
Speaker 4: to set up like an ambush at their next mission. Yeah,

2884
02:23:11,600 --> 02:23:13,879
Speaker 4: And instead they evacuate their base.

2885
02:23:13,840 --> 02:23:17,360
Speaker 2: And Saw blasts him and basically says, hey, to the kid,

2886
02:23:17,560 --> 02:23:19,480
Speaker 2: your mind now, and we're going to go steal this

2887
02:23:19,560 --> 02:23:22,240
Speaker 2: fucking fuel. So the next time we see them, they

2888
02:23:22,560 --> 02:23:26,200
Speaker 2: they've busted onto this Imperial fuel lot and they're fueling

2889
02:23:26,280 --> 02:23:29,199
Speaker 2: up their ships and while the kid is like working

2890
02:23:29,240 --> 02:23:31,240
Speaker 2: out to set this thing up to allow them to

2891
02:23:31,360 --> 02:23:37,160
Speaker 2: take the ribo, which is the rionium riydonium rhydo sorry,

2892
02:23:37,200 --> 02:23:39,720
Speaker 2: the starship fuel. While the kid is like doing this

2893
02:23:39,920 --> 02:23:42,240
Speaker 2: job that we've been told if you don't do it perfectly,

2894
02:23:42,360 --> 02:23:45,800
Speaker 2: it kills you and everyone around you. Saw is monologuing

2895
02:23:45,879 --> 02:23:48,080
Speaker 2: and he's talking about his childhood where he was like

2896
02:23:48,240 --> 02:23:51,640
Speaker 2: I was a child slave, you know, forced to labor

2897
02:23:51,879 --> 02:23:54,760
Speaker 2: in these rhido mines, right, and one day there was

2898
02:23:54,840 --> 02:23:57,480
Speaker 2: a gas leak and all everyone ran and you know

2899
02:23:57,600 --> 02:23:59,320
Speaker 2: this stuff. It was so bad out there. The old

2900
02:23:59,360 --> 02:24:01,960
Speaker 2: people would and you'd come back the next day and

2901
02:24:02,080 --> 02:24:03,880
Speaker 2: the jungle was so thick they'd been eaten down to

2902
02:24:03,959 --> 02:24:06,000
Speaker 2: bones and want everybody has to flee because of this leak.

2903
02:24:06,240 --> 02:24:09,360
Speaker 2: But I don't run away because, like I'm huffing this gas,

2904
02:24:09,440 --> 02:24:11,800
Speaker 2: I get high and I like realize for the first time,

2905
02:24:11,879 --> 02:24:12,440
Speaker 2: I'm alive.

2906
02:24:12,680 --> 02:24:12,880
Speaker 4: You know.

2907
02:24:13,320 --> 02:24:16,240
Speaker 2: He has this like this moment, and then when the

2908
02:24:16,320 --> 02:24:19,080
Speaker 2: kid figures out how to get the fuel hooked up,

2909
02:24:19,600 --> 02:24:22,880
Speaker 2: Saw immediately leans in and starts huffing what is effectively

2910
02:24:23,000 --> 02:24:25,760
Speaker 2: gasoline and going and the kid's like, what the fuck.

2911
02:24:25,840 --> 02:24:28,080
Speaker 2: The kid who's wearing gas mask, who's like wearing gas

2912
02:24:29,200 --> 02:24:31,400
Speaker 2: is like, what are you doing? And he's like, she's

2913
02:24:31,480 --> 02:24:34,440
Speaker 2: my sister, right, Oh, she's my sister and she loves me.

2914
02:24:35,240 --> 02:24:37,960
Speaker 4: I want to read it here. I sure have this

2915
02:24:38,080 --> 02:24:40,800
Speaker 4: back of the monologu quote. Yeah you feel how badly

2916
02:24:41,000 --> 02:24:44,039
Speaker 4: she wants to explode. Yeah, remember this moment. You think

2917
02:24:44,080 --> 02:24:47,680
Speaker 4: I'm crazy? Yes, I am. Revolution is not for the samee.

2918
02:24:48,280 --> 02:24:51,320
Speaker 4: Look at us, unloved, hunted, cannon fodder. Will all be

2919
02:24:51,440 --> 02:24:54,480
Speaker 4: dead before the Republic is back. And yet here we are.

2920
02:24:54,920 --> 02:24:55,280
Speaker 3: Where are you?

2921
02:24:55,440 --> 02:24:55,600
Speaker 4: Boy?

2922
02:24:55,680 --> 02:24:56,080
Speaker 3: You're here.

2923
02:24:56,280 --> 02:24:58,680
Speaker 4: You're not with Luthin, you're here. You're right here, and

2924
02:24:58,720 --> 02:25:02,080
Speaker 4: you're ready to fight. We're the rido kid, We're the fuel.

2925
02:25:02,160 --> 02:25:04,400
Speaker 4: We're the thing that explodes when there's too much friction

2926
02:25:04,520 --> 02:25:07,400
Speaker 4: in the air. Let it in, boy, that's freedom calling

2927
02:25:07,560 --> 02:25:10,119
Speaker 4: Let it in, Let it run, let it run wild.

2928
02:25:10,320 --> 02:25:14,080
Speaker 2: And he is just for one thing. The kid is

2929
02:25:14,200 --> 02:25:17,520
Speaker 2: choking on the on the fumes, is nearly dying from

2930
02:25:17,560 --> 02:25:21,480
Speaker 2: the gas fumes that clearly saw as barely affected by anymore. Right,

2931
02:25:22,280 --> 02:25:24,240
Speaker 2: it's again this thing I love that they do in

2932
02:25:24,400 --> 02:25:27,320
Speaker 2: terms of they're calling back to the older lore when

2933
02:25:27,360 --> 02:25:29,560
Speaker 2: he calls this his sister. Yeah, but you don't need

2934
02:25:29,640 --> 02:25:32,440
Speaker 2: to know that his sister died to get this moment.

2935
02:25:32,600 --> 02:25:34,959
Speaker 2: It just makes it adds an extra layer of meaning

2936
02:25:35,000 --> 02:25:37,080
Speaker 2: if you're a nerd for the lore, which I appreciate

2937
02:25:37,160 --> 02:25:40,080
Speaker 2: a lot. And it also sets up in Rogue one

2938
02:25:40,120 --> 02:25:42,640
Speaker 2: when we see Saw near death, he's huff he's on

2939
02:25:43,080 --> 02:25:45,400
Speaker 2: he's on oxygen. He's well, I think he's on O

2940
02:25:45,560 --> 02:25:48,160
Speaker 2: two because he's destroyed his lung stuffing.

2941
02:25:48,440 --> 02:25:51,800
Speaker 4: He's houghing this now, this is this is what he's huffing.

2942
02:25:51,879 --> 02:25:54,000
Speaker 4: That has been like like like retcond.

2943
02:25:54,280 --> 02:25:55,440
Speaker 3: Confirmed it wasn't oxygen.

2944
02:25:55,520 --> 02:26:00,840
Speaker 4: Okay, yes, bo the writer Ye called Tony Gilroy and said, hey,

2945
02:26:00,920 --> 02:26:02,520
Speaker 4: what if we have him huff and fumes?

2946
02:26:02,920 --> 02:26:03,840
Speaker 3: And they went for it.

2947
02:26:04,400 --> 02:26:05,960
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but I but I think that was to

2948
02:26:06,040 --> 02:26:08,880
Speaker 2: try to explain because because Tony said he didn't know

2949
02:26:09,080 --> 02:26:11,520
Speaker 2: why Saul was on oxygen when YE put it in

2950
02:26:11,680 --> 02:26:14,080
Speaker 2: Rogue one, and so they came to explain it. But

2951
02:26:14,120 --> 02:26:15,720
Speaker 2: I think he's on oxygen because I.

2952
02:26:15,760 --> 02:26:18,720
Speaker 4: Think it's been retconto to being that he's just huffing.

2953
02:26:18,800 --> 02:26:20,320
Speaker 3: Risy, I don't know.

2954
02:26:20,600 --> 02:26:23,080
Speaker 4: I saw it in an article. You yeah, so either way,

2955
02:26:23,160 --> 02:26:25,440
Speaker 4: we'll see, we'll see. I could be wrong. I was

2956
02:26:25,520 --> 02:26:28,400
Speaker 4: wrong last beekause of one thing, I miscredited the quote

2957
02:26:28,640 --> 02:26:32,120
Speaker 4: about about the Empire's grip tightening and systems falling through

2958
02:26:32,760 --> 02:26:36,600
Speaker 4: because the Theory Twinks British actor has a has an

2959
02:26:36,640 --> 02:26:39,160
Speaker 4: accent very similar to the one Carry Fisher poorly tries

2960
02:26:39,200 --> 02:26:42,280
Speaker 4: to imitate in a New Hope where she says that line,

2961
02:26:42,400 --> 02:26:44,960
Speaker 4: so sorry, George, Sorry George, that was your line.

2962
02:26:45,200 --> 02:26:45,680
Speaker 3: Good line.

2963
02:26:45,840 --> 02:26:47,960
Speaker 4: The Theory Twink just has some very similar ones. So

2964
02:26:48,240 --> 02:26:49,000
Speaker 4: I got confused.

2965
02:26:49,600 --> 02:26:53,520
Speaker 2: Accountability Wow, mean to Carry Fisher Garrison.

2966
02:26:53,720 --> 02:26:55,920
Speaker 3: Everyone knows her accents bad in that movie. We all

2967
02:26:56,000 --> 02:26:56,200
Speaker 3: know it.

2968
02:26:58,440 --> 02:27:01,119
Speaker 2: I fucking love this speech by Oh.

2969
02:27:01,120 --> 02:27:03,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is the most Robert thing I've ever seen it.

2970
02:27:03,480 --> 02:27:06,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's perfect, It's perfect. Everything about it makes me

2971
02:27:06,520 --> 02:27:09,360
Speaker 2: so happy. Bo Willman continues to be like maybe the

2972
02:27:09,440 --> 02:27:13,360
Speaker 2: best monologuest writing for TV right now. It's just such

2973
02:27:13,400 --> 02:27:17,680
Speaker 2: a raw scene and it explains both like why Saw

2974
02:27:17,879 --> 02:27:21,240
Speaker 2: is still around, because he's the most paranoid, crazy son

2975
02:27:21,320 --> 02:27:24,320
Speaker 2: of a bitch there is, and because he unlike everyone

2976
02:27:24,400 --> 02:27:27,680
Speaker 2: else and unlike the Gorman's, unlike even Cassie, and he's

2977
02:27:27,760 --> 02:27:30,480
Speaker 2: the only guy who understands what Luthan understands, which is

2978
02:27:30,560 --> 02:27:33,200
Speaker 2: that likely. We're not here to see the other side

2979
02:27:33,240 --> 02:27:36,000
Speaker 2: of this. Now, we're here to catch on fire, you know,

2980
02:27:36,520 --> 02:27:37,480
Speaker 2: like that's the.

2981
02:27:37,600 --> 02:27:40,840
Speaker 4: Whole thing, and hopefully that fire will grow. Yeah, and yeah,

2982
02:27:41,200 --> 02:27:43,040
Speaker 4: if that means we get burned up in the process,

2983
02:27:43,200 --> 02:27:45,600
Speaker 4: that is, that's how it be. Yeah, if the fire

2984
02:27:45,640 --> 02:27:48,240
Speaker 4: will burn very brightly, yes, all right, let's go and

2985
02:27:48,320 --> 02:27:50,440
Speaker 4: break and then come back to discus the final episode

2986
02:27:50,480 --> 02:27:51,000
Speaker 4: in this arc.

2987
02:28:01,040 --> 02:28:01,880
Speaker 3: Okay, we are back.

2988
02:28:02,040 --> 02:28:05,080
Speaker 4: And Or Season two, episode six, What a festive evening.

2989
02:28:05,800 --> 02:28:09,640
Speaker 4: Luthen sends mon Mathma's cousin Val to re establish relations

2990
02:28:09,720 --> 02:28:14,080
Speaker 4: with the Gorman front after Cassian's icy reception. Cassian and

2991
02:28:14,160 --> 02:28:17,480
Speaker 4: Bicks reunite on Corroussant, but then Cassian shows up at

2992
02:28:17,600 --> 02:28:20,920
Speaker 4: Luthen's shock confront him about checking in on Bicks at

2993
02:28:20,959 --> 02:28:23,120
Speaker 4: the safe house while and Or was on mission. In

2994
02:28:23,240 --> 02:28:27,759
Speaker 4: a possibly like OPSEC irresponsible, huge OPSEC.

2995
02:28:27,400 --> 02:28:30,320
Speaker 2: Fuck up, huge oxexo CACI and Andor's face is known.

2996
02:28:31,040 --> 02:28:34,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, not good. This is like the Cassian's emotions getting

2997
02:28:34,360 --> 02:28:36,640
Speaker 4: the better of him here. Senator mon Mathma and her

2998
02:28:36,720 --> 02:28:40,240
Speaker 4: husband parent attend a party of the Empire's elite, where

2999
02:28:40,320 --> 02:28:43,640
Speaker 4: she debates Krenik on Imperial cruelty and the mindset of

3000
02:28:43,720 --> 02:28:47,640
Speaker 4: a rebel underdog. Meanwhile, Claya uses their undercover ice B

3001
02:28:47,760 --> 02:28:50,320
Speaker 4: agent to help remove a listening device hidden in the

3002
02:28:50,440 --> 02:28:54,680
Speaker 4: Price collection of artifacts. Vell reunites with Sinta as they

3003
02:28:54,800 --> 02:28:58,000
Speaker 4: helped to lead the Gorman Front's first attack, stealing imperial

3004
02:28:58,040 --> 02:29:01,280
Speaker 4: weapons on a cargo transport. At first, things go according

3005
02:29:01,280 --> 02:29:03,720
Speaker 4: to plan. Cyril watches from a distance and reports to

3006
02:29:03,760 --> 02:29:04,400
Speaker 4: icebyhead quarter.

3007
02:29:04,680 --> 02:29:07,360
Speaker 2: We should note ahead of this that during the meeting

3008
02:29:07,440 --> 02:29:09,760
Speaker 2: where they had about this, one point that they had

3009
02:29:09,840 --> 02:29:12,520
Speaker 2: made is none of you have guns. None of you

3010
02:29:12,720 --> 02:29:15,480
Speaker 2: carry guns on this Me and her are the only

3011
02:29:15,600 --> 02:29:18,320
Speaker 2: people with blasters. You don't need them, you're not competent

3012
02:29:18,400 --> 02:29:18,959
Speaker 2: to use them.

3013
02:29:19,680 --> 02:29:19,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3014
02:29:20,760 --> 02:29:24,200
Speaker 4: So, near the end of this operation, a civilian confronts

3015
02:29:24,240 --> 02:29:26,760
Speaker 4: the rebels but what they're doing and in the struggle,

3016
02:29:26,920 --> 02:29:29,320
Speaker 4: Sinta is accidentally shot and killed by one of the

3017
02:29:29,400 --> 02:29:31,840
Speaker 4: members of the Gorman Front, a guy named Sam with

3018
02:29:31,959 --> 02:29:36,200
Speaker 4: two ms. I love Star Wars. This episode ends with

3019
02:29:36,360 --> 02:29:38,640
Speaker 4: Bix and Cassian going on a mission to kill the

3020
02:29:38,720 --> 02:29:42,920
Speaker 4: Imperial interrogation expert doctor Gorst, which they succeed and then

3021
02:29:43,000 --> 02:29:46,240
Speaker 4: walk away heroically from the explosion, similar to.

3022
02:29:46,400 --> 02:29:48,840
Speaker 2: Kill him by torturing him the way he tortured her.

3023
02:29:49,080 --> 02:29:52,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then they love the building and they play

3024
02:29:52,480 --> 02:29:55,280
Speaker 4: the music cue from the very first arc, Yeah, the

3025
02:29:55,400 --> 02:29:59,000
Speaker 4: very first season where Cassian is walking away with that

3026
02:29:59,120 --> 02:30:02,560
Speaker 4: fast drum beat. So this episode has so much about

3027
02:30:02,680 --> 02:30:05,640
Speaker 4: like like relationships complicating political activity.

3028
02:30:05,800 --> 02:30:05,920
Speaker 6: Right.

3029
02:30:06,000 --> 02:30:08,720
Speaker 4: We have we have and orn bicks. We have the lesbians.

3030
02:30:09,120 --> 02:30:12,879
Speaker 4: Valin Senta be killed by lesbian. They did kill your lesbian?

3031
02:30:13,120 --> 02:30:16,920
Speaker 4: H we'll talk about that, yeah, we'll second. They also

3032
02:30:17,040 --> 02:30:19,560
Speaker 4: have they also have Cyril and Dedra. We have like

3033
02:30:19,720 --> 02:30:22,080
Speaker 4: like a lot of a lot of like how relationships

3034
02:30:22,120 --> 02:30:25,959
Speaker 4: and politics like function, how where there's friction, when things

3035
02:30:26,000 --> 02:30:28,600
Speaker 4: can go well, with things can go bad. Let's talk

3036
02:30:28,640 --> 02:30:32,960
Speaker 4: I guess a little bit of about this party where

3037
02:30:33,240 --> 02:30:38,640
Speaker 4: where where uh Luthen talks with Cretic very very briefly

3038
02:30:39,360 --> 02:30:42,040
Speaker 4: and at the end, I mean this is this is

3039
02:30:42,040 --> 02:30:44,520
Speaker 4: a very effective scene where they like build tension with

3040
02:30:44,640 --> 02:30:47,440
Speaker 4: Clay trying to remove this bug while critics like in

3041
02:30:47,560 --> 02:30:50,200
Speaker 4: the room seeing seeing these other artifacts and it's like

3042
02:30:50,280 --> 02:30:53,800
Speaker 4: debating Mond. But when when Luthen and Claya leave, they

3043
02:30:53,959 --> 02:30:56,760
Speaker 4: jokingly remark, oh, good man, we should have killed critic

3044
02:30:56,840 --> 02:30:59,360
Speaker 4: when we were up there and they laugh and you're like, yeah,

3045
02:30:59,560 --> 02:31:00,720
Speaker 4: you know, you guys should.

3046
02:31:00,480 --> 02:31:00,840
Speaker 5: Have that's.

3047
02:31:02,480 --> 02:31:04,119
Speaker 3: You really should have killed critic.

3048
02:31:04,920 --> 02:31:07,600
Speaker 4: You really should have killed critic. It would have bummed

3049
02:31:07,640 --> 02:31:09,120
Speaker 4: things up. But then the Death Star may not have

3050
02:31:09,200 --> 02:31:11,840
Speaker 4: been completed. Yeah, and this whole thing would have gone differently,

3051
02:31:12,240 --> 02:31:14,800
Speaker 4: although you know, you know, in a way, the deskto

3052
02:31:14,840 --> 02:31:18,000
Speaker 4: operation does lead to the fall of the Empire in

3053
02:31:18,120 --> 02:31:19,680
Speaker 4: like the paradox that a way.

3054
02:31:19,600 --> 02:31:24,080
Speaker 3: To be fair, they should they don't know exists some business.

3055
02:31:25,240 --> 02:31:27,880
Speaker 4: But he's like he's like a super high up guy. Yes,

3056
02:31:28,160 --> 02:31:29,440
Speaker 4: and man, yeah, that is tough.

3057
02:31:29,560 --> 02:31:30,560
Speaker 3: That's that's a tough scene.

3058
02:31:30,680 --> 02:31:33,480
Speaker 2: It's a's also what's interesting is that it's a tough

3059
02:31:33,560 --> 02:31:36,360
Speaker 2: scene in light of the rest of the lore. It's

3060
02:31:36,400 --> 02:31:39,000
Speaker 2: a really nice because they've been fighting, bickering for this

3061
02:31:39,160 --> 02:31:41,800
Speaker 2: whole cycle of episodes and like you're, yeah, things are

3062
02:31:41,840 --> 02:31:43,440
Speaker 2: breaking down, and this is a moment where like they

3063
02:31:43,520 --> 02:31:46,720
Speaker 2: get back on the same page and you're like, eases.

3064
02:31:46,560 --> 02:31:48,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, well because part of it, because like part of

3065
02:31:48,120 --> 02:31:50,200
Speaker 3: what's going on here is like losing is losing it, right,

3066
02:31:50,240 --> 02:31:51,680
Speaker 3: and this is the thing because like he's he's struggling

3067
02:31:52,760 --> 02:31:56,000
Speaker 3: and like, yeah, everyone's fucking seen this, Like yeah, your

3068
02:31:56,000 --> 02:31:58,160
Speaker 3: friend is struggling fifteen products at once. They're losing their

3069
02:31:58,200 --> 02:32:01,720
Speaker 3: goddamn minds and then like the girl in your group

3070
02:32:01,800 --> 02:32:03,520
Speaker 3: was on top of it, has to just slap them

3071
02:32:03,520 --> 02:32:04,680
Speaker 3: and be like locked the fuck in.

3072
02:32:05,160 --> 02:32:07,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, Klay is a scary monster.

3073
02:32:07,440 --> 02:32:08,560
Speaker 3: She is on it. Yeah.

3074
02:32:08,800 --> 02:32:12,240
Speaker 2: Well, it's made really clear in these cycles. She is

3075
02:32:12,360 --> 02:32:13,400
Speaker 2: not his subordinate.

3076
02:32:13,560 --> 02:32:14,400
Speaker 4: Oh no, they are.

3077
02:32:14,560 --> 02:32:18,320
Speaker 2: They are handling very different parts of the operation, but

3078
02:32:18,440 --> 02:32:20,240
Speaker 2: she is not working under him.

3079
02:32:20,800 --> 02:32:22,280
Speaker 3: No, and she is like the one who like is

3080
02:32:22,560 --> 02:32:24,400
Speaker 3: the reason any of the shit works. Absolutely, And it's

3081
02:32:24,440 --> 02:32:26,160
Speaker 3: like that's the thing you see very often.

3082
02:32:26,280 --> 02:32:28,880
Speaker 2: There's a line in the season one where things are

3083
02:32:28,920 --> 02:32:31,080
Speaker 2: looking bad for them and he specifically asks her is

3084
02:32:31,120 --> 02:32:33,720
Speaker 2: your go bag ready? And he doesn't check his own,

3085
02:32:33,959 --> 02:32:36,760
Speaker 2: so he I think he understands if one of us

3086
02:32:36,840 --> 02:32:38,240
Speaker 2: has to get out, it should be you.

3087
02:32:38,560 --> 02:32:42,000
Speaker 4: She has to survive. Yeah, totally. Yeah, And I think

3088
02:32:42,040 --> 02:32:43,640
Speaker 4: that is that is where things are going to are

3089
02:32:43,680 --> 02:32:44,280
Speaker 4: going to be moving.

3090
02:32:44,520 --> 02:32:44,720
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3091
02:32:44,760 --> 02:32:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3092
02:32:44,959 --> 02:32:48,120
Speaker 4: I mean when when Cassiean's coming back from Gorman, like

3093
02:32:48,240 --> 02:32:50,840
Speaker 4: Luthen picks him up and they start like arguing over

3094
02:32:51,040 --> 02:32:53,160
Speaker 4: like is the Gorman front like a real thing to

3095
02:32:53,280 --> 02:32:55,840
Speaker 4: like spend effort and like time on, like they're kind

3096
02:32:55,879 --> 02:32:57,760
Speaker 4: of all like like green, they don't really have good

3097
02:32:57,800 --> 02:32:59,840
Speaker 4: op sex. They're not they're just not like ready yet. Yeah,

3098
02:33:00,000 --> 02:33:02,760
Speaker 4: and and and Luthen pushes back and says to Cassie

3099
02:33:02,800 --> 02:33:05,400
Speaker 4: and like you're thinking small, you're thinking like a thief.

3100
02:33:05,520 --> 02:33:08,879
Speaker 4: And Cassian robuts like, no, I'm thinking like a soldier.

3101
02:33:09,360 --> 02:33:13,360
Speaker 4: And you have to think like a leader. You have

3102
02:33:13,480 --> 02:33:15,320
Speaker 4: to actually and like from Luten's point of view, a

3103
02:33:15,400 --> 02:33:17,920
Speaker 4: leader is like a very like manipulative rule and like

3104
02:33:18,080 --> 02:33:20,000
Speaker 4: like you you have to start using these guys as

3105
02:33:20,080 --> 02:33:23,080
Speaker 4: pawns for this like larger game, because the empire is

3106
02:33:23,080 --> 02:33:25,080
Speaker 4: bigger than just Gorman. The Empire is bigger than us.

3107
02:33:25,720 --> 02:33:28,520
Speaker 4: We have to think bigger. You can't just you can't

3108
02:33:28,640 --> 02:33:31,160
Speaker 4: just think like a you know, a small illegalist who

3109
02:33:31,240 --> 02:33:34,320
Speaker 4: is gonna steal your food and not pay for parking

3110
02:33:34,840 --> 02:33:37,720
Speaker 4: and and just like get by while still doing crying.

3111
02:33:37,760 --> 02:33:40,240
Speaker 4: But like you know, try that like outsmart the empires

3112
02:33:40,280 --> 02:33:42,200
Speaker 4: like no, like we we are we are we are

3113
02:33:42,240 --> 02:33:42,640
Speaker 4: beyond that.

3114
02:33:42,959 --> 02:33:44,680
Speaker 2: We ain't robbing banks anymore.

3115
02:33:45,200 --> 02:33:49,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly right, like we are beyond the illegalist like

3116
02:33:49,280 --> 02:33:51,800
Speaker 4: point of view, we have to start thinking like much

3117
02:33:51,920 --> 02:33:55,000
Speaker 4: more much more like strategically and with like the bigger

3118
02:33:55,080 --> 02:33:57,039
Speaker 4: picture in mind, because like we are we are slowly

3119
02:33:57,040 --> 02:33:59,200
Speaker 4: getting closer to the Battle of Yavn. Here, Yeah, and

3120
02:34:00,200 --> 02:34:03,640
Speaker 4: their little argument they're really really interesting. And then their

3121
02:34:03,680 --> 02:34:07,640
Speaker 4: secondary meet up where where Cassian's mad about Luthen checking

3122
02:34:07,680 --> 02:34:10,480
Speaker 4: in on bicks and I think, like I can understand

3123
02:34:10,480 --> 02:34:12,080
Speaker 4: both their point of view here is this. I think

3124
02:34:12,120 --> 02:34:14,440
Speaker 4: this is still a big fuck up from Cassian, but

3125
02:34:14,560 --> 02:34:17,160
Speaker 4: it's like it makes sense, but like, yeah, the relationship

3126
02:34:17,200 --> 02:34:18,720
Speaker 4: is getting like the better of him on like a

3127
02:34:18,800 --> 02:34:22,360
Speaker 4: strategic standpoint, like at this at this plot point, and

3128
02:34:22,680 --> 02:34:24,920
Speaker 4: Luthen still trusts them though, like Luthen still gives them

3129
02:34:24,920 --> 02:34:27,800
Speaker 4: the assignment to kill doctor Gores, So like Luthen still

3130
02:34:28,240 --> 02:34:29,920
Speaker 4: is able to work with these people, and he's still

3131
02:34:29,959 --> 02:34:32,840
Speaker 4: actually like oddly enough like prioritizes empathy and like he

3132
02:34:32,879 --> 02:34:35,320
Speaker 4: says like like like empathy, like you can you cannot

3133
02:34:35,400 --> 02:34:38,400
Speaker 4: have a you cannot have a revolution without empathy. That's

3134
02:34:38,440 --> 02:34:40,680
Speaker 4: what this is built on. And and and even though

3135
02:34:40,720 --> 02:34:43,320
Speaker 4: he's a bit of a hard ass sometimes he still

3136
02:34:43,360 --> 02:34:46,080
Speaker 4: does like trust them, yeah, yeah, but he's he also

3137
02:34:46,200 --> 02:34:49,280
Speaker 4: is deliberately fucking with him, Like yeah, totally he's very

3138
02:34:49,360 --> 02:34:51,680
Speaker 4: minific like he like he's like he's being unbelievagnit of

3139
02:34:51,800 --> 02:34:52,960
Speaker 4: like like like one of the things there is like

3140
02:34:53,000 --> 02:34:56,680
Speaker 4: he deliberately gives Bis, tells Bis about this assignment that

3141
02:34:56,720 --> 02:34:58,760
Speaker 4: he was going to give her and then doesn't specifically

3142
02:34:58,879 --> 02:35:00,520
Speaker 4: to see if she would tell about it.

3143
02:35:00,560 --> 02:35:02,800
Speaker 3: And that's how Andrew would react to that, which is like,

3144
02:35:03,360 --> 02:35:07,200
Speaker 3: don't do that. That's unhinged, Like that's like not and

3145
02:35:07,280 --> 02:35:08,760
Speaker 3: this is like also part of like, you know the

3146
02:35:08,840 --> 02:35:11,000
Speaker 3: thing you have to like balance here, right is like

3147
02:35:11,600 --> 02:35:14,000
Speaker 3: you know, you have to be able to balance like

3148
02:35:14,680 --> 02:35:16,840
Speaker 3: getting people to do things that need to be done

3149
02:35:17,120 --> 02:35:21,240
Speaker 3: with like not being a fucking asshole and alienating everyone.

3150
02:35:21,360 --> 02:35:24,600
Speaker 3: And this is like a and especially when you yourself,

3151
02:35:24,760 --> 02:35:27,240
Speaker 3: because like Luthor is also falling apart, and he's not

3152
02:35:27,360 --> 02:35:28,040
Speaker 3: going to change.

3153
02:35:28,240 --> 02:35:29,640
Speaker 4: He's not he's never gonna change.

3154
02:35:29,840 --> 02:35:30,520
Speaker 3: No, he's not changing.

3155
02:35:30,560 --> 02:35:32,400
Speaker 2: But he's like he's like the thing though that's not

3156
02:35:32,600 --> 02:35:36,480
Speaker 2: his job, right, His job was to make the later

3157
02:35:36,640 --> 02:35:40,640
Speaker 2: stages of this where people act differently inevitable totally, and

3158
02:35:40,760 --> 02:35:44,920
Speaker 2: he understands that you need something that horrifies people to

3159
02:35:45,080 --> 02:35:47,600
Speaker 2: do that, right, Like, and that's that's all he's trying

3160
02:35:47,640 --> 02:35:48,160
Speaker 2: to set.

3161
02:35:48,040 --> 02:35:51,400
Speaker 4: Up Luthid is absolutely like a moral very manipulative.

3162
02:35:51,760 --> 02:35:51,959
Speaker 6: I am.

3163
02:35:52,080 --> 02:35:55,880
Speaker 4: I am still I'm still teaming even though he like

3164
02:35:56,000 --> 02:35:57,920
Speaker 4: sucks as a dude, Like I would hate to work

3165
02:35:57,959 --> 02:35:58,240
Speaker 4: with him.

3166
02:35:58,480 --> 02:36:00,520
Speaker 3: Well it's like, but like I a god have the

3167
02:36:00,640 --> 02:36:03,560
Speaker 3: team Luthen and the yet Yeah, well I would just

3168
02:36:03,600 --> 02:36:05,800
Speaker 3: say like like if the thing is like, if you

3169
02:36:05,920 --> 02:36:09,360
Speaker 3: try to act like this in like an actual organizing space,

3170
02:36:10,080 --> 02:36:15,199
Speaker 3: this isn't gonna work. You're just gonna putter. He's not organizing,

3171
02:36:15,440 --> 02:36:17,520
Speaker 3: He's not doing that, right, That's that's what I'm saying, though,

3172
02:36:17,520 --> 02:36:20,840
Speaker 3: you're right, right, like like this this works because of

3173
02:36:20,920 --> 02:36:23,160
Speaker 3: the exact specific thing that he's doing, which is he

3174
02:36:23,280 --> 02:36:25,080
Speaker 3: is the guy who is coordinating a bunch of networks.

3175
02:36:25,240 --> 02:36:27,120
Speaker 3: The thing is, in order for networks to hold together

3176
02:36:27,200 --> 02:36:29,560
Speaker 3: and work, people have to have relationships with each other,

3177
02:36:29,879 --> 02:36:32,280
Speaker 3: and if you behave like this in that situation, it

3178
02:36:32,320 --> 02:36:35,119
Speaker 3: will funck out everything. And this is like the conflict

3179
02:36:35,160 --> 02:36:38,279
Speaker 3: that's happening, like even inside of his own limited network

3180
02:36:38,480 --> 02:36:41,680
Speaker 3: is that like he's he is like fucking with everyone

3181
02:36:41,879 --> 02:36:43,520
Speaker 3: And we'll get to that with the lesbian you.

3182
02:36:43,560 --> 02:36:46,040
Speaker 2: See you see how you see the different levels at

3183
02:36:46,080 --> 02:36:49,040
Speaker 2: which networks work here, like the Gorman Front works because

3184
02:36:49,040 --> 02:36:52,240
Speaker 2: they're all friends and neighbors who care about each other, right,

3185
02:36:52,879 --> 02:36:56,480
Speaker 2: And that's why they are like real tactles albody, and

3186
02:36:56,520 --> 02:36:58,840
Speaker 2: they're able to stick together even though they're not they

3187
02:36:58,920 --> 02:37:03,680
Speaker 2: don't have perfect competence. We see Saws group where someone

3188
02:37:03,720 --> 02:37:05,800
Speaker 2: made the comment that like, well, he's basically a fascist

3189
02:37:06,040 --> 02:37:08,520
Speaker 2: and because of like the hold he has on his group,

3190
02:37:08,840 --> 02:37:10,560
Speaker 2: which is not what I saw at all. I saw

3191
02:37:10,600 --> 02:37:13,600
Speaker 2: as soon as he shoots the spy, he has but

3192
02:37:13,680 --> 02:37:15,360
Speaker 2: he's not a fashion. He has to prove to the

3193
02:37:15,440 --> 02:37:17,760
Speaker 2: rest of his group that guy was a spy and

3194
02:37:17,879 --> 02:37:19,920
Speaker 2: needed to die. And once he does, they're like, all right,

3195
02:37:20,040 --> 02:37:23,080
Speaker 2: well back to the job, right, I mean yeah, But

3196
02:37:23,400 --> 02:37:25,160
Speaker 2: and he gets he has to get fucked you know,

3197
02:37:25,200 --> 02:37:28,600
Speaker 2: he gets fucked up as part of like the just

3198
02:37:28,680 --> 02:37:31,640
Speaker 2: the necessity of it's it's literally the only thing he

3199
02:37:31,760 --> 02:37:35,640
Speaker 2: has in between acts of terrifying violence. But that's how

3200
02:37:35,720 --> 02:37:38,360
Speaker 2: that group bands together. And then we see, you know,

3201
02:37:38,480 --> 02:37:42,800
Speaker 2: these smaller cells of experts, right who they have their

3202
02:37:42,840 --> 02:37:45,560
Speaker 2: connections with each other and they have their little moments

3203
02:37:45,600 --> 02:37:48,440
Speaker 2: of vengeance, and that's what keeps them going and the

3204
02:37:48,600 --> 02:37:51,760
Speaker 2: only thing that keeps Luthen going is the pure logic

3205
02:37:52,080 --> 02:37:54,520
Speaker 2: of the calculus of what he's put together. That's all

3206
02:37:54,600 --> 02:37:55,080
Speaker 2: he's got.

3207
02:37:55,600 --> 02:37:59,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, information collecting boyfriend, always collecting information. Yeah, all right,

3208
02:37:59,640 --> 02:38:03,520
Speaker 4: let's talk about the space lesbians who are running the

3209
02:38:04,320 --> 02:38:08,680
Speaker 4: French Resistance. So I liked I liked a lot of

3210
02:38:08,720 --> 02:38:10,720
Speaker 4: what they did with them in this episode. I liked

3211
02:38:11,240 --> 02:38:13,840
Speaker 4: how they were like reuniting. I liked the way they

3212
02:38:13,879 --> 02:38:16,920
Speaker 4: talked about the on again, off again style of their

3213
02:38:16,959 --> 02:38:20,480
Speaker 4: relationship based on like having to live in this rebellion

3214
02:38:20,760 --> 02:38:23,120
Speaker 4: like life, Like they can't always see each other, they're

3215
02:38:23,120 --> 02:38:25,840
Speaker 4: always being moved around by Luthern. But they both specifically

3216
02:38:25,840 --> 02:38:28,440
Speaker 4: took this assignment like hoping and like and I think

3217
02:38:28,480 --> 02:38:29,879
Speaker 4: like knowing that it would mean that they could see

3218
02:38:29,920 --> 02:38:33,680
Speaker 4: each other. So I liked the development that we had

3219
02:38:33,800 --> 02:38:35,840
Speaker 4: with them as people who like you, are like in

3220
02:38:35,920 --> 02:38:38,320
Speaker 4: the same spaces, but do not have the luxury of

3221
02:38:38,360 --> 02:38:41,320
Speaker 4: actually having like a life together at this point in time.

3222
02:38:41,959 --> 02:38:45,080
Speaker 4: They advised the little resistance group, they're they're much more

3223
02:38:45,160 --> 02:38:49,720
Speaker 4: friendly than than than Cassie and is oh, well they

3224
02:38:50,080 --> 02:38:51,080
Speaker 4: do come in or like.

3225
02:38:51,080 --> 02:38:53,680
Speaker 3: All right, you motherfuckers like you people are amateur? Yes,

3226
02:38:54,680 --> 02:38:56,600
Speaker 3: oh yeah, yeah, no, fucking guns.

3227
02:38:56,840 --> 02:39:00,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like no, Like, I guess they have more

3228
02:39:00,200 --> 02:39:03,280
Speaker 4: of a willingness to put up with the amateurs than

3229
02:39:03,320 --> 02:39:05,960
Speaker 4: Cassie does. And I think, I think is kind of

3230
02:39:06,200 --> 02:39:08,840
Speaker 4: what's going on there. And you know, they're they're hoping

3231
02:39:08,879 --> 02:39:10,480
Speaker 4: that after this mission's over, maybe they'll be able to

3232
02:39:10,520 --> 02:39:14,920
Speaker 4: spend more time together. And then Cinta does get killed.

3233
02:39:14,959 --> 02:39:17,240
Speaker 4: And I've seen a lot of criticism of this. I've

3234
02:39:17,320 --> 02:39:20,359
Speaker 4: seen people invoking like a like a like a barrier

3235
02:39:20,480 --> 02:39:23,720
Speaker 4: gaze type crope, and I don't think that's my personal

3236
02:39:23,800 --> 02:39:26,200
Speaker 4: outlook on what's going on here. I think a lot

3237
02:39:26,280 --> 02:39:28,920
Speaker 4: of people die throughout this show. We had Brasso die

3238
02:39:29,640 --> 02:39:31,520
Speaker 4: and this sort of thing like just happened.

3239
02:39:31,520 --> 02:39:34,440
Speaker 2: It happens. That's that's the point is Yes, she's really good,

3240
02:39:34,640 --> 02:39:36,959
Speaker 2: she's really good, she's incredibly.

3241
02:39:36,760 --> 02:39:40,280
Speaker 4: And it feels so like purposeless and like welcome to war.

3242
02:39:40,400 --> 02:39:42,120
Speaker 4: I think that is part of the problem, part of

3243
02:39:42,160 --> 02:39:45,200
Speaker 4: the point. And like the upset like a reaction that

3244
02:39:45,280 --> 02:39:47,680
Speaker 4: you have I think is like that's that's showing I

3245
02:39:47,720 --> 02:39:50,760
Speaker 4: think the strength of the strength of this, Like it

3246
02:39:51,200 --> 02:39:53,840
Speaker 4: sucks to see a lesbian get killed, but I think

3247
02:39:53,879 --> 02:39:56,520
Speaker 4: we're seeing so many relationships like fall apart. We're seeing

3248
02:39:56,520 --> 02:39:57,400
Speaker 4: a lot of people get killed.

3249
02:39:57,520 --> 02:40:00,760
Speaker 2: Brasso didn't die for any better reason. This is just

3250
02:40:00,840 --> 02:40:01,800
Speaker 2: how war works.

3251
02:40:01,840 --> 02:40:04,520
Speaker 3: No, I mean I think I think the reason and

3252
02:40:04,640 --> 02:40:05,880
Speaker 3: this isn't It has been an interesting part of this.

3253
02:40:05,959 --> 02:40:07,640
Speaker 3: I talked a bit about this last episode was like

3254
02:40:07,760 --> 02:40:10,200
Speaker 3: this is the most like this is by far the

3255
02:40:10,280 --> 02:40:12,400
Speaker 3: most like gay Star Wars River had right, and it's

3256
02:40:12,400 --> 02:40:14,160
Speaker 3: the most Like I'm trying to think of the number

3257
02:40:14,200 --> 02:40:16,199
Speaker 3: of other shows the only time they didn't lean away

3258
02:40:16,240 --> 02:40:19,800
Speaker 3: from it or insinuate it. Yeah, no, like, well they

3259
02:40:19,840 --> 02:40:22,800
Speaker 3: just kissing this episode. It's like I'm legitimately like I'm

3260
02:40:22,840 --> 02:40:24,280
Speaker 3: like racking my brain. I'm trying to think, like the

3261
02:40:24,400 --> 02:40:26,680
Speaker 3: number of like major TV shows I have ever seen

3262
02:40:26,720 --> 02:40:29,039
Speaker 3: in my life run non white lesbian gets to kiss someone.

3263
02:40:30,280 --> 02:40:31,800
Speaker 3: It's like not that high. And I think that's why

3264
02:40:31,879 --> 02:40:33,840
Speaker 3: people because like, yeah, like this is this is this

3265
02:40:33,959 --> 02:40:36,480
Speaker 3: is an this is the best representation of my culture,

3266
02:40:36,800 --> 02:40:39,480
Speaker 3: which is like the leftist lesbian. Yeah, they're gonna see

3267
02:40:39,480 --> 02:40:41,640
Speaker 3: each other I've ever seen And then it's like yeah,

3268
02:40:41,640 --> 02:40:42,280
Speaker 3: and she fucking dies.

3269
02:40:42,280 --> 02:40:45,600
Speaker 4: It's it hurts, Like I think like we were able

3270
02:40:45,640 --> 02:40:47,960
Speaker 4: to watch these characters develop over the course of like

3271
02:40:48,040 --> 02:40:51,160
Speaker 4: a few arcs, right, Like we saw these in the

3272
02:40:51,240 --> 02:40:53,879
Speaker 4: Aldanni heist where they were like basically the only two

3273
02:40:53,920 --> 02:40:56,480
Speaker 4: people to survive besides casting and like everyone else on

3274
02:40:56,560 --> 02:40:59,680
Speaker 4: that ont heist died, right, Yeah, so the lesbians made

3275
02:40:59,680 --> 02:41:02,240
Speaker 4: it out of that. They they struggled to maintain their

3276
02:41:02,240 --> 02:41:05,000
Speaker 4: relationship in the interim as as things happened. They had

3277
02:41:05,080 --> 02:41:08,280
Speaker 4: this emotional reunion here. I think, you know, you could

3278
02:41:08,360 --> 02:41:10,320
Speaker 4: you could make an argument maybe you'd be better to

3279
02:41:10,640 --> 02:41:13,440
Speaker 4: kill Vow, But we've we've had more development with Vow

3280
02:41:13,560 --> 02:41:17,880
Speaker 4: because of being related to mon So, Like, yeah, it is,

3281
02:41:18,160 --> 02:41:21,279
Speaker 4: it is, it is. It is tough with like the disposability,

3282
02:41:21,360 --> 02:41:22,880
Speaker 4: but that is that is that that is a part

3283
02:41:22,920 --> 02:41:25,240
Speaker 4: of us fighting in an environment like this.

3284
02:41:25,600 --> 02:41:29,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not that they're disposable, it's that combat is random,

3285
02:41:30,200 --> 02:41:33,760
Speaker 2: like and fuck ups are random, like this this exact thing.

3286
02:41:34,000 --> 02:41:36,760
Speaker 2: Somebody screws up and shoots when they're not supposed to

3287
02:41:37,000 --> 02:41:40,960
Speaker 2: and the bullet doesn't stop. Happens all the goddamn time,

3288
02:41:41,640 --> 02:41:44,160
Speaker 2: and like it's part of what fucks people up. If

3289
02:41:44,200 --> 02:41:47,000
Speaker 2: you talk to people about there who have war experiences,

3290
02:41:47,040 --> 02:41:48,960
Speaker 2: one of the things that will fuck someone up the

3291
02:41:49,080 --> 02:41:52,000
Speaker 2: most is watching someone they know and care about get

3292
02:41:52,080 --> 02:41:54,960
Speaker 2: turned into pink mist And it's usually a situation where

3293
02:41:55,000 --> 02:41:58,080
Speaker 2: somebody hits or steps on or whatever an ied or

3294
02:41:58,160 --> 02:42:00,480
Speaker 2: takes a rocket at a bad time, and there's this

3295
02:42:00,640 --> 02:42:03,280
Speaker 2: person that you knew and you care about and they're

3296
02:42:03,680 --> 02:42:07,200
Speaker 2: three dimensional to you and you probably plan to keep

3297
02:42:07,360 --> 02:42:10,160
Speaker 2: knowing them after that, and then they're just fucking missed,

3298
02:42:10,520 --> 02:42:14,560
Speaker 2: and it just it shatters people's minds, and that's what happens,

3299
02:42:15,240 --> 02:42:15,920
Speaker 2: like and.

3300
02:42:16,160 --> 02:42:19,640
Speaker 4: Like yeah, vow's little like speech to to Sam afterwards,

3301
02:42:19,720 --> 02:42:21,200
Speaker 4: being like like you are you now have to live

3302
02:42:21,240 --> 02:42:23,840
Speaker 4: your entire life knowing that you took this person away,

3303
02:42:24,120 --> 02:42:25,600
Speaker 4: and like every action you take for the rest of

3304
02:42:25,600 --> 02:42:26,880
Speaker 4: your life is going to be like it's gonna be

3305
02:42:26,959 --> 02:42:29,200
Speaker 4: all in all an attempt to like make up for this,

3306
02:42:29,400 --> 02:42:32,040
Speaker 4: Like every every every imperial you kill will just be

3307
02:42:32,800 --> 02:42:35,160
Speaker 4: one for Cinta, Yeah, because like the Cinta was like

3308
02:42:35,160 --> 02:42:37,160
Speaker 4: a professional. This is like the life that she led,

3309
02:42:37,200 --> 02:42:39,080
Speaker 4: Like you will never be able to understand how important

3310
02:42:39,120 --> 02:42:40,640
Speaker 4: she was. You'll never be able to understand like how

3311
02:42:40,720 --> 02:42:42,840
Speaker 4: good she was at this. And you're like a fucking

3312
02:42:42,920 --> 02:42:45,000
Speaker 4: like French kid, Yeah, like you don't know what you're

3313
02:42:45,000 --> 02:42:46,680
Speaker 4: doing and now you have to spend your entire life

3314
02:42:46,720 --> 02:42:48,720
Speaker 4: making up for it. And it was a very hard speech.

3315
02:42:49,000 --> 02:42:50,640
Speaker 4: But I think Val did a really good job with

3316
02:42:50,800 --> 02:42:53,400
Speaker 4: that and like understanding like the political necessity of like

3317
02:42:53,440 --> 02:42:56,040
Speaker 4: you can't let this be like in vain either, like

3318
02:42:56,120 --> 02:42:58,119
Speaker 4: you have to like you have to be using him,

3319
02:42:58,360 --> 02:43:01,320
Speaker 4: making making his life like worthwhile. Yeah, yeah, and I

3320
02:43:01,400 --> 02:43:03,640
Speaker 4: mean yeah, it's it was rough. I mean I would

3321
02:43:03,640 --> 02:43:05,800
Speaker 4: love I would love more more like gay characters living

3322
02:43:05,840 --> 02:43:08,080
Speaker 4: happy lives in Star Wars, but we rarely see anyone

3323
02:43:08,160 --> 02:43:09,360
Speaker 4: living a happy life in Star Wars.

3324
02:43:09,440 --> 02:43:10,800
Speaker 2: This is not about happy lives.

3325
02:43:11,040 --> 02:43:13,080
Speaker 4: I also, that's not what we're seeing love.

3326
02:43:13,280 --> 02:43:15,039
Speaker 2: The thing that doesn't get a huge amount of attention

3327
02:43:15,120 --> 02:43:16,880
Speaker 2: in these episodes but is interesting to me is the

3328
02:43:17,000 --> 02:43:20,080
Speaker 2: guy that he was he pulled that Matt or whatever

3329
02:43:20,200 --> 02:43:24,400
Speaker 2: his name was, Sam Samama, the guy that Samon Man

3330
02:43:24,720 --> 02:43:28,280
Speaker 2: told his gun to try to stop, is just this

3331
02:43:28,520 --> 02:43:31,080
Speaker 2: random Gorman dude who's like, hey, no, I'm not gonna

3332
02:43:31,160 --> 02:43:33,160
Speaker 2: like leave, this is like my city, What are you

3333
02:43:33,240 --> 02:43:33,680
Speaker 2: doing here?

3334
02:43:33,920 --> 02:43:34,320
Speaker 4: What's going on?

3335
02:43:34,360 --> 02:43:36,680
Speaker 2: As soon as he realized that he carries her body

3336
02:43:36,879 --> 02:43:39,640
Speaker 2: like he goes with them, you know, and we it's

3337
02:43:39,720 --> 02:43:41,480
Speaker 2: kind of unclear is he likes some sort of spot

3338
02:43:41,600 --> 02:43:43,200
Speaker 2: or is he literally a Gorman who it the whole

3339
02:43:43,280 --> 02:43:45,720
Speaker 2: time was looking for a way to get involved, and

3340
02:43:45,800 --> 02:43:47,720
Speaker 2: once he realized what was happening, he's like, yeah, these

3341
02:43:47,720 --> 02:43:48,800
Speaker 2: are my people I'm with this.

3342
02:43:49,680 --> 02:43:51,280
Speaker 3: Was that the guy from the meeting or was it

3343
02:43:51,320 --> 02:43:53,600
Speaker 3: a different the one from the He wasn't.

3344
02:43:53,959 --> 02:43:57,760
Speaker 2: He wasn't the Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, so I guess

3345
02:43:57,800 --> 02:44:00,320
Speaker 2: he just wasn't in the inner circle. But like he

3346
02:44:00,440 --> 02:44:01,320
Speaker 2: hops on, you.

3347
02:44:01,400 --> 02:44:03,920
Speaker 4: Know, yeah, but no, I do understand like the racial

3348
02:44:03,959 --> 02:44:06,560
Speaker 4: disposability and like the barrier gaze like aspect that could

3349
02:44:06,560 --> 02:44:09,600
Speaker 4: be read into this. It's a tough thing to to

3350
02:44:10,000 --> 02:44:12,640
Speaker 4: thread here. And I think if if you view this

3351
02:44:12,760 --> 02:44:15,360
Speaker 4: in context of all of the people that we have

3352
02:44:15,480 --> 02:44:20,360
Speaker 4: seen like get killed, like the entire Aldnnie Crewe, like

3353
02:44:20,520 --> 02:44:23,640
Speaker 4: Brass so basically you know, the droid from season one

3354
02:44:23,680 --> 02:44:26,640
Speaker 4: gets like abandoned on that planet, I think, like it

3355
02:44:27,040 --> 02:44:29,480
Speaker 4: does it does make sense. I think in that larger context,

3356
02:44:29,959 --> 02:44:32,600
Speaker 4: I think there's a way that not everyone like has

3357
02:44:32,680 --> 02:44:36,520
Speaker 4: to die to lead to rogue one like besides Cassian, No,

3358
02:44:36,680 --> 02:44:39,920
Speaker 4: not everyone, but but someone like since and like frankly,

3359
02:44:40,040 --> 02:44:43,360
Speaker 4: like someone like Sinta the type of militant she is

3360
02:44:43,920 --> 02:44:45,680
Speaker 4: they do have a short life span, like that is

3361
02:44:45,760 --> 02:44:48,000
Speaker 4: that is part of the specific thing Sinta is doing.

3362
02:44:48,800 --> 02:44:51,120
Speaker 4: Is like you burn fast and you burn bright, and

3363
02:44:51,240 --> 02:44:53,400
Speaker 4: sometimes you will die in a way that's like really

3364
02:44:53,440 --> 02:44:57,040
Speaker 4: purposeless and that fucking sucks. And that happens in war,

3365
02:44:57,160 --> 02:44:59,800
Speaker 4: that happens in like activist spaces, like that happens. That

3366
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:03,520
Speaker 4: happens in the United States with people here and often

3367
02:45:03,600 --> 02:45:07,080
Speaker 4: they are like non white gay people. Yeah, like that's

3368
02:45:07,120 --> 02:45:11,119
Speaker 4: what happened in Atlanta. So like these these things happen.

3369
02:45:11,280 --> 02:45:14,920
Speaker 2: The number of people who committed suicide too after twenty twenty,

3370
02:45:15,120 --> 02:45:17,440
Speaker 2: you know, like, yeah.

3371
02:45:17,600 --> 02:45:19,080
Speaker 4: Do we have anything else you want to want to

3372
02:45:19,120 --> 02:45:19,480
Speaker 4: say me?

3373
02:45:19,720 --> 02:45:20,240
Speaker 3: Do do you have anything?

3374
02:45:20,280 --> 02:45:23,400
Speaker 4: When I close that on as the president, non white

3375
02:45:23,480 --> 02:45:26,000
Speaker 4: lesbian on the podcast.

3376
02:45:25,760 --> 02:45:32,400
Speaker 3: They killed by lesbian. So it's sad there aren't. What

3377
02:45:33,360 --> 02:45:35,160
Speaker 3: is the next time I'm getting a non white lesbian

3378
02:45:35,240 --> 02:45:36,800
Speaker 3: in Star Wars is gonna work? Like I Am going

3379
02:45:36,840 --> 02:45:39,640
Speaker 3: to be right, like raising a black flag over Shensend.

3380
02:45:39,680 --> 02:45:41,160
Speaker 3: But the next time we get another one.

3381
02:45:41,040 --> 02:45:44,040
Speaker 4: Of these characters of the series, you know, we had

3382
02:45:44,480 --> 02:45:48,040
Speaker 4: we we had a non white lesbian uh in Acolyte

3383
02:45:48,120 --> 02:45:51,680
Speaker 4: who also taught it. Yeah, yeah, I do not see

3384
02:45:51,720 --> 02:45:54,480
Speaker 4: people talking about the barrier gay stuff with the Acolyte as.

3385
02:45:54,400 --> 02:45:57,840
Speaker 3: Well, nobody because because it wasn't bad.

3386
02:45:57,879 --> 02:45:59,800
Speaker 4: But I think it's also worth I think it's also

3387
02:45:59,840 --> 02:46:01,880
Speaker 4: where remembering like like this is this is a show

3388
02:46:01,959 --> 02:46:04,760
Speaker 4: starring like a non white leading role, like like a

3389
02:46:04,840 --> 02:46:08,039
Speaker 4: Cassian is not white. So I think that the racial

3390
02:46:08,120 --> 02:46:10,880
Speaker 4: politics are a little bit, a little bit more more complex.

3391
02:46:10,920 --> 02:46:12,400
Speaker 4: I think some people are discussing.

3392
02:46:12,480 --> 02:46:17,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, all right, well these episodes have been amazing.

3393
02:46:17,760 --> 02:46:23,480
Speaker 2: Everybody get into inhalance, uh and steal fuel from the military.

3394
02:46:24,120 --> 02:46:25,759
Speaker 2: That's the message of vandor.

3395
02:46:26,920 --> 02:46:27,600
Speaker 4: Run wild.

3396
02:46:30,920 --> 02:46:31,400
Speaker 5: Don't do that.

3397
02:46:31,520 --> 02:46:33,519
Speaker 2: That's a joke legally, Okay.

3398
02:46:57,800 --> 02:47:01,040
Speaker 4: This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder our weekly

3399
02:47:01,120 --> 02:47:04,039
Speaker 4: newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world,

3400
02:47:04,080 --> 02:47:06,280
Speaker 4: and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis today,

3401
02:47:06,440 --> 02:47:10,280
Speaker 4: joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, and Robert Evans. This episode,

3402
02:47:10,320 --> 02:47:13,760
Speaker 4: we're covering the week of April thirtieth to May seventh.

3403
02:47:14,320 --> 02:47:17,840
Speaker 2: Yes, when you think of ED, you think about rigid

3404
02:47:18,360 --> 02:47:23,480
Speaker 2: cylindrical things now flying at high speed towards miss That's

3405
02:47:23,480 --> 02:47:25,760
Speaker 2: a bad way to introduce the facts. There's now a

3406
02:47:25,879 --> 02:47:29,440
Speaker 2: war going on between India and Pakistan. Chris, I don't

3407
02:47:29,440 --> 02:47:31,120
Speaker 2: know what else are we supposed to do? How are

3408
02:47:31,160 --> 02:47:34,480
Speaker 2: we supposed to go into this? Pakistan and India are

3409
02:47:34,600 --> 02:47:35,120
Speaker 2: are shooting.

3410
02:47:35,879 --> 02:47:38,680
Speaker 3: Yeah's okay, okay, I'm going to attempt to do a

3411
02:47:38,879 --> 02:47:41,960
Speaker 3: very very very very brief Please God like, do not

3412
02:47:42,160 --> 02:47:45,720
Speaker 3: let this be the extent of your knowledge about this conflict.

3413
02:47:45,879 --> 02:47:51,320
Speaker 3: But yeah, okay, here is one paragraph about this. So

3414
02:47:51,879 --> 02:47:57,720
Speaker 3: when India gains and Pakistan eventually gained independence from the

3415
02:47:57,879 --> 02:48:01,720
Speaker 3: UK and the British Empire, there was the partition. This

3416
02:48:01,879 --> 02:48:05,480
Speaker 3: is a process in which millions died and India and

3417
02:48:05,480 --> 02:48:07,960
Speaker 3: Pakistan were split into two states.

3418
02:48:08,200 --> 02:48:11,760
Speaker 2: Millions die as a result of the disruption to infrastructure

3419
02:48:11,800 --> 02:48:13,439
Speaker 2: and as a result of mascular.

3420
02:48:13,160 --> 02:48:17,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again people fleeing like back and forth between

3421
02:48:17,080 --> 02:48:21,360
Speaker 3: the two places. There's been a studio territory for fucking ever.

3422
02:48:22,040 --> 02:48:24,199
Speaker 3: One of the most contentious parts of this has always

3423
02:48:24,280 --> 02:48:28,160
Speaker 3: been Kashmir. Large walk There's a whole complicated thing here.

3424
02:48:28,240 --> 02:48:32,120
Speaker 3: But so Kashmir was sort of split in two. There's

3425
02:48:32,160 --> 02:48:35,959
Speaker 3: an almost entirely Muslim like territory that ends up under

3426
02:48:36,000 --> 02:48:39,400
Speaker 3: the control of India and India has waged a brutal

3427
02:48:39,440 --> 02:48:42,880
Speaker 3: military occupation of Kashmir since they got it. Basically, it

3428
02:48:43,080 --> 02:48:46,360
Speaker 3: ramps up and down in terms of like how bad

3429
02:48:46,560 --> 02:48:50,560
Speaker 3: it is, but it's never good. Yeah, And this has

3430
02:48:50,600 --> 02:48:53,840
Speaker 3: been a constant source ofttension between India and Pakistan, where

3431
02:48:54,200 --> 02:48:57,000
Speaker 3: you know, Pakistan has played its card of like we

3432
02:48:57,160 --> 02:49:01,360
Speaker 3: are like the defenders of Muslims in in India. And

3433
02:49:02,080 --> 02:49:04,200
Speaker 3: there's been a series of wars also, but this this

3434
02:49:04,360 --> 02:49:05,560
Speaker 3: is one of the few times where you can say

3435
02:49:05,560 --> 02:49:07,680
Speaker 3: there were gedocides on both sides and it's true because

3436
02:49:08,200 --> 02:49:10,520
Speaker 3: like one of the wars that they fought was because

3437
02:49:10,720 --> 02:49:14,360
Speaker 3: of the jedicide that Pakistan did in what became Bangladesh.

3438
02:49:14,520 --> 02:49:16,920
Speaker 3: So like, there are no heroes in this story. There

3439
02:49:17,000 --> 02:49:19,200
Speaker 3: is only I mean, I guess, like you know, there

3440
02:49:19,240 --> 02:49:21,720
Speaker 3: are people resisting repression from both states.

3441
02:49:21,720 --> 02:49:24,000
Speaker 2: There are good people, but neither of the states have

3442
02:49:24,160 --> 02:49:24,800
Speaker 2: clean ams.

3443
02:49:24,879 --> 02:49:28,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the states suck shit, right, Like you know,

3444
02:49:28,240 --> 02:49:32,000
Speaker 3: let let's be clear about that Kashmir is one of

3445
02:49:32,120 --> 02:49:34,440
Speaker 3: the most militarized places in the world. It got much

3446
02:49:34,560 --> 02:49:37,480
Speaker 3: much worse after twenty nineteen, when India withdrew the autonomous

3447
02:49:37,520 --> 02:49:40,560
Speaker 3: status that kashmiir had had. This sparked a bunch of protests.

3448
02:49:40,560 --> 02:49:44,800
Speaker 3: They're horribly repressed. There's been staggering numbers of people have

3449
02:49:44,920 --> 02:49:47,520
Speaker 3: died over the past like thirty years. There look a

3450
02:49:47,560 --> 02:49:49,879
Speaker 3: lot of like Hesbra's accesis, the outside world has been

3451
02:49:49,920 --> 02:49:54,160
Speaker 3: cut off. It's difficult to get people like in to it.

3452
02:49:54,680 --> 02:49:57,320
Speaker 3: And obviously, you know, the thing about occupations is that

3453
02:49:57,360 --> 02:49:59,480
Speaker 3: there's been a very very long running series of sort

3454
02:49:59,520 --> 02:50:04,120
Speaker 3: of insertion sees and militant groups in Kashmir of various kinds.

3455
02:50:04,879 --> 02:50:09,000
Speaker 3: Pakistan has funded some of these groups as a way

3456
02:50:09,040 --> 02:50:12,320
Speaker 3: to sort of like poke a stick at India, and

3457
02:50:12,480 --> 02:50:17,880
Speaker 3: in late April a group killed twenty odd twenty six

3458
02:50:17,959 --> 02:50:21,520
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, twenty six, I think yeah, I think

3459
02:50:21,520 --> 02:50:25,880
Speaker 3: that's the final number, like Hindu tourists in Kashmir. It's

3460
02:50:25,920 --> 02:50:29,680
Speaker 3: worth noting that there's no actual evidence that Pakistan is

3461
02:50:29,840 --> 02:50:31,320
Speaker 3: behind this, but.

3462
02:50:32,000 --> 02:50:33,680
Speaker 2: No, but that's India's claim.

3463
02:50:34,000 --> 02:50:35,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's India's claim. And this is causings to get

3464
02:50:35,879 --> 02:50:38,080
Speaker 3: really really bad in Kashmir itself, which is the part

3465
02:50:38,120 --> 02:50:39,800
Speaker 3: of this I think has gotten lost in a lot

3466
02:50:39,800 --> 02:50:41,800
Speaker 3: of the discussions here, which is like like if you

3467
02:50:41,920 --> 02:50:45,400
Speaker 3: if you read statements from from like I mean, like, A,

3468
02:50:45,520 --> 02:50:47,880
Speaker 3: there's just been like an incredible intensification of oppression and

3469
02:50:47,959 --> 02:50:51,600
Speaker 3: b if you read statements from Indian officials, they are

3470
02:50:51,640 --> 02:50:54,119
Speaker 3: they're just straight up talking about quote like Indian style

3471
02:50:54,240 --> 02:50:57,760
Speaker 3: final solutions for Kashmir. It's completely unhinged. The Indian state

3472
02:50:57,959 --> 02:51:01,120
Speaker 3: has gone into this. I mean, like, you know, it's Mody, right.

3473
02:51:01,200 --> 02:51:04,080
Speaker 3: Mody is running probably the world's most effective fascist government

3474
02:51:05,080 --> 02:51:06,840
Speaker 3: and his thing is always like a huge part of

3475
02:51:06,879 --> 02:51:09,959
Speaker 3: it has always been specifically about like wanting to repress Muslims,

3476
02:51:10,400 --> 02:51:14,440
Speaker 3: and this, you know, has has kicked the homophobia into

3477
02:51:15,040 --> 02:51:18,640
Speaker 3: an absolute fever pitch. And the product of this is

3478
02:51:18,680 --> 02:51:20,879
Speaker 3: that they have started doing strikes inside of Pakistan. I'm

3479
02:51:20,879 --> 02:51:22,440
Speaker 3: going to pass it over to Robert talk about like

3480
02:51:22,720 --> 02:51:25,880
Speaker 3: what does have looked like in what this conflict has been. Yeah.

3481
02:51:26,520 --> 02:51:29,080
Speaker 2: So, and it's important to know that during this terrorist attack,

3482
02:51:29,160 --> 02:51:31,000
Speaker 2: one of the big things that is alleged is that

3483
02:51:31,400 --> 02:51:33,880
Speaker 2: husbands were executed in front of their wives. Yeah, that

3484
02:51:34,080 --> 02:51:37,280
Speaker 2: is going to be relevant for the name of the

3485
02:51:37,400 --> 02:51:40,760
Speaker 2: operation that India is in the process of carrying out

3486
02:51:40,840 --> 02:51:43,680
Speaker 2: right now. Prior to in the immediate wake of that attack,

3487
02:51:44,200 --> 02:51:48,240
Speaker 2: everyone knew some shit was going to go down on

3488
02:51:48,360 --> 02:51:51,040
Speaker 2: the border. India was going to do something, in part

3489
02:51:51,080 --> 02:51:55,360
Speaker 2: because India said they were going to do something. Right JD. Vance,

3490
02:51:55,680 --> 02:51:58,480
Speaker 2: the Peacemaker, as we call him, I don't believe anyone

3491
02:51:58,520 --> 02:52:00,560
Speaker 2: else has ever been called that, and they history of

3492
02:52:01,040 --> 02:52:03,320
Speaker 2: government or popular media. So yeah, that seems like a

3493
02:52:03,360 --> 02:52:06,000
Speaker 2: good nickname for him. Went to India like a day

3494
02:52:06,080 --> 02:52:08,360
Speaker 2: or two before this all happened to calm things down.

3495
02:52:08,720 --> 02:52:11,160
Speaker 3: This is often making a visit to the Pope or

3496
02:52:11,320 --> 02:52:11,800
Speaker 3: to tell.

3497
02:52:11,800 --> 02:52:14,600
Speaker 2: Mody do whatever. Like, we don't know actually what he said.

3498
02:52:14,720 --> 02:52:16,240
Speaker 2: Some people are like Vance must have given him the

3499
02:52:16,240 --> 02:52:18,680
Speaker 2: go ahead. I think it's just as likely Vance was like, hey,

3500
02:52:18,720 --> 02:52:20,600
Speaker 2: we don't really want a war right now? Can he

3501
02:52:20,640 --> 02:52:23,320
Speaker 2: calm shit down? And Mody didn't listen, or that Vance

3502
02:52:23,480 --> 02:52:25,960
Speaker 2: just didn't even have anything meaningful to say. We actually

3503
02:52:25,959 --> 02:52:30,040
Speaker 2: don't know at the moment. But last night India started

3504
02:52:30,080 --> 02:52:34,320
Speaker 2: carrying out what they are calling operations Sindoor si Indo

3505
02:52:34,640 --> 02:52:39,040
Speaker 2: R is how it is generally anglicized. The name of

3506
02:52:39,160 --> 02:52:42,440
Speaker 2: the operation comes from. Again. I mentioned a little earlier

3507
02:52:42,480 --> 02:52:45,400
Speaker 2: that during that terrorist attack in Kashmir, Hindu men were

3508
02:52:45,480 --> 02:52:48,560
Speaker 2: killed in front of their wives, Sindoor is a word

3509
02:52:48,760 --> 02:52:52,120
Speaker 2: that refers to this kind of colored dye that I

3510
02:52:52,200 --> 02:52:54,680
Speaker 2: believe it's like a bridal thing that like women put in.

3511
02:52:55,040 --> 02:52:57,879
Speaker 2: I think it's in their hair. But it's a reference

3512
02:52:57,959 --> 02:52:59,879
Speaker 2: to something that is part of like a traditional Hindu

3513
02:53:00,360 --> 02:53:02,840
Speaker 2: wedding and something that the bride does. And so it

3514
02:53:02,959 --> 02:53:05,560
Speaker 2: was specifically named this in order to make it very clear,

3515
02:53:05,920 --> 02:53:08,879
Speaker 2: this is vengeance for that attack. Right, Like that's why

3516
02:53:08,959 --> 02:53:10,680
Speaker 2: it was named what it was. Okay, does that all

3517
02:53:10,720 --> 02:53:13,800
Speaker 2: make sense? Yeah, sorry, I've got here. Sindor is the

3518
02:53:13,840 --> 02:53:16,160
Speaker 2: Hindi word for vermilion, which is the red pignant Hindu

3519
02:53:16,240 --> 02:53:19,120
Speaker 2: women applied to their forehead, right, So like that, and

3520
02:53:19,280 --> 02:53:21,520
Speaker 2: so it's a reference also to the fact that these

3521
02:53:21,600 --> 02:53:23,720
Speaker 2: terrorists are said to have like shot their victims in

3522
02:53:23,760 --> 02:53:24,240
Speaker 2: the forehead.

3523
02:53:24,360 --> 02:53:24,480
Speaker 1: Right.

3524
02:53:24,560 --> 02:53:29,120
Speaker 2: So there's a lot going on there basically. Yeah, but

3525
02:53:29,360 --> 02:53:33,160
Speaker 2: that's what's relevant. So when it comes to this what's happening,

3526
02:53:33,280 --> 02:53:36,280
Speaker 2: first off, perfectly reasonable to call what's happening war. India

3527
02:53:36,320 --> 02:53:38,720
Speaker 2: has launched cross border strikes. They appear to have launched

3528
02:53:38,760 --> 02:53:43,119
Speaker 2: both cruise missiles and air strikes using modern jets.

3529
02:53:43,440 --> 02:53:43,560
Speaker 10: Right.

3530
02:53:44,000 --> 02:53:48,320
Speaker 2: Pakistan has responded with modern military air defenses. What we

3531
02:53:48,440 --> 02:53:51,200
Speaker 2: can safely say right now is that this is the

3532
02:53:51,480 --> 02:53:56,800
Speaker 2: first full twenty first century here on peer military action.

3533
02:53:57,000 --> 02:53:58,920
Speaker 2: And I know, as came up in the meeting, people

3534
02:53:58,920 --> 02:54:02,680
Speaker 2: are gonna say, well, Ukraine, not entirely Ukraine and Russia.

3535
02:54:03,240 --> 02:54:05,640
Speaker 2: There is a degree to which that is true, because

3536
02:54:05,760 --> 02:54:08,520
Speaker 2: Ukraine is armed by states that are peer or more

3537
02:54:08,560 --> 02:54:11,520
Speaker 2: than peer to Russia in terms of military technology. But

3538
02:54:11,760 --> 02:54:14,320
Speaker 2: Ukraine does not have an industrial base that is in

3539
02:54:14,360 --> 02:54:17,400
Speaker 2: any way comparable to Russia's. They're not capable of manufacturing

3540
02:54:17,480 --> 02:54:20,120
Speaker 2: the weaponry that they need to compete with Russia on

3541
02:54:20,160 --> 02:54:23,120
Speaker 2: the battlefield on their own. That's why international aid has

3542
02:54:23,160 --> 02:54:27,800
Speaker 2: been so critical. Pakistan and India are both effectively peers

3543
02:54:28,280 --> 02:54:30,959
Speaker 2: in that they both do purchase weaponry a lot from

3544
02:54:31,000 --> 02:54:33,960
Speaker 2: other countries, but they also have domestic arms industries, and

3545
02:54:34,040 --> 02:54:37,000
Speaker 2: they have potent domestic militaries that are armed to a

3546
02:54:37,160 --> 02:54:41,920
Speaker 2: comparable standard. Right, And so there's a few things happening here.

3547
02:54:42,000 --> 02:54:44,320
Speaker 2: I do not want to lose count of the fact

3548
02:54:44,360 --> 02:54:48,240
Speaker 2: that people are dying. Obviously, civilians died in that attack

3549
02:54:48,320 --> 02:54:51,280
Speaker 2: in Kashmir. At the moment, it looks like the death

3550
02:54:51,360 --> 02:54:54,120
Speaker 2: toll from the initial Indian strikes is somewhere around forty.

3551
02:54:54,200 --> 02:54:57,080
Speaker 2: Pakistan is claiming the vast majority of those are civilians.

3552
02:54:57,440 --> 02:55:00,920
Speaker 2: India is claiming that they only hit infant structure associated

3553
02:55:00,959 --> 02:55:03,680
Speaker 2: with the terrorist group that they believe carried out the

3554
02:55:03,760 --> 02:55:07,280
Speaker 2: attacks in Kashmir that they claim is being supported by Pakistan.

3555
02:55:07,879 --> 02:55:11,840
Speaker 2: There is substantial evidence the majority of the dead are civilians.

3556
02:55:12,040 --> 02:55:14,680
Speaker 2: People have claimed that large chunks of their families were

3557
02:55:14,720 --> 02:55:17,160
Speaker 2: wiped out in these strikes. I don't see any reason

3558
02:55:17,200 --> 02:55:20,039
Speaker 2: to doubt that, knowing how air strikes work. A good

3559
02:55:20,160 --> 02:55:22,160
Speaker 2: number of the dead, though, have also occurred as a

3560
02:55:22,200 --> 02:55:26,080
Speaker 2: result of cross border artillery fire, and it's unclear to

3561
02:55:26,160 --> 02:55:28,760
Speaker 2: me if India and Pakistan have had a full on

3562
02:55:28,959 --> 02:55:31,680
Speaker 2: artillery duel across the border, or if this is Pakistan's

3563
02:55:31,760 --> 02:55:34,760
Speaker 2: artillery firing back in response to the air strikes. That

3564
02:55:34,840 --> 02:55:37,480
Speaker 2: part is unclear. There are also videos where you can

3565
02:55:37,600 --> 02:55:40,280
Speaker 2: hear small arms fire, so machine guns and the like,

3566
02:55:40,959 --> 02:55:43,920
Speaker 2: and reports that that is coming from Pakistan's side too.

3567
02:55:44,280 --> 02:55:47,000
Speaker 2: It's possible there is a cross border direct arm engagement.

3568
02:55:47,360 --> 02:55:49,360
Speaker 2: It's possible no one died as a result of the

3569
02:55:49,400 --> 02:55:52,880
Speaker 2: small arms fire. Given the distances that this is occurring

3570
02:55:52,879 --> 02:55:54,480
Speaker 2: at right that the only nets have been due to

3571
02:55:54,520 --> 02:55:57,880
Speaker 2: field artillery and due to missile strikes. Right, that seems

3572
02:55:58,040 --> 02:56:00,480
Speaker 2: likely at this point. It's possible to death is much

3573
02:56:00,560 --> 02:56:03,480
Speaker 2: higher than forty. But that's somewhere around there is what's

3574
02:56:03,520 --> 02:56:07,920
Speaker 2: been confirmed right now. Now we have talked about the deaths. Obviously,

3575
02:56:08,080 --> 02:56:10,800
Speaker 2: the biggest concern is the loss in human life. Here,

3576
02:56:11,280 --> 02:56:14,000
Speaker 2: I am going to talk about what this means on

3577
02:56:14,120 --> 02:56:16,920
Speaker 2: a military level, because that is relevant both how this

3578
02:56:17,080 --> 02:56:20,320
Speaker 2: conflict is going to proceed and how future conflicts are

3579
02:56:20,360 --> 02:56:22,480
Speaker 2: going to proceed, because we have not seen a peer

3580
02:56:22,560 --> 02:56:25,160
Speaker 2: on peer fight like this before in this century.

3581
02:56:25,400 --> 02:56:25,520
Speaker 5: Right.

3582
02:56:26,160 --> 02:56:29,360
Speaker 2: So, one of the more important things as to how

3583
02:56:29,400 --> 02:56:31,640
Speaker 2: this has preceded is that a number of the jets

3584
02:56:31,680 --> 02:56:34,040
Speaker 2: that India launched across the border are what are called

3585
02:56:34,120 --> 02:56:37,680
Speaker 2: refalls our afal e. This is a French fighter jet.

3586
02:56:38,120 --> 02:56:41,360
Speaker 2: It is broadly considered to be equivalent to an F

3587
02:56:41,440 --> 02:56:45,560
Speaker 2: eighteen super Hornet. Now, I say that if you go

3588
02:56:45,760 --> 02:56:48,680
Speaker 2: online and you listen to people who are nerds about

3589
02:56:48,760 --> 02:56:51,760
Speaker 2: fighter jets, they will pull a knife on you for

3590
02:56:51,879 --> 02:56:55,360
Speaker 2: claiming that, right, there are major differences between the two airframes.

3591
02:56:56,520 --> 02:56:58,840
Speaker 2: One of them is that the Refall is a larger plane,

3592
02:56:58,920 --> 02:57:01,280
Speaker 2: which means it's theoretically capable of got theoretically it is

3593
02:57:01,360 --> 02:57:04,880
Speaker 2: capable of a significantly higher payload. However, there's a couple

3594
02:57:04,920 --> 02:57:06,840
Speaker 2: of problems that come with that. One is that the

3595
02:57:06,959 --> 02:57:09,520
Speaker 2: super Hornet not only is it a smaller craft, but

3596
02:57:09,600 --> 02:57:12,000
Speaker 2: it is built for carrier duty, which means it's wings

3597
02:57:12,000 --> 02:57:14,040
Speaker 2: fold yeata. You can fit more of them on a carrier.

3598
02:57:14,280 --> 02:57:16,360
Speaker 2: They take off and land more easily from a carrier,

3599
02:57:16,640 --> 02:57:18,680
Speaker 2: or a fall can take off and land from a carrier,

3600
02:57:18,760 --> 02:57:20,400
Speaker 2: but it has to have a different load out right.

3601
02:57:20,840 --> 02:57:24,600
Speaker 2: The other issue, a super Hornet can stay supersonic with

3602
02:57:24,760 --> 02:57:28,000
Speaker 2: its full payload for longer periods of time. That means

3603
02:57:28,040 --> 02:57:30,440
Speaker 2: that it can be breaking the sound barrier consistently, not

3604
02:57:30,560 --> 02:57:32,600
Speaker 2: just using its after burner for like a quick burst

3605
02:57:32,640 --> 02:57:35,680
Speaker 2: of speed. That matters because the faster you're going, the

3606
02:57:35,800 --> 02:57:38,680
Speaker 2: harder you are to shoot down. The primary eritor ground

3607
02:57:38,720 --> 02:57:41,720
Speaker 2: package it has is what's called a hammer, and that's

3608
02:57:41,720 --> 02:57:44,560
Speaker 2: an acronym hammer. I don't know what it stands for

3609
02:57:44,680 --> 02:57:46,600
Speaker 2: off the top of my head, but they are between

3610
02:57:46,680 --> 02:57:48,800
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty and one thousand pounds each.

3611
02:57:49,000 --> 02:57:49,120
Speaker 3: Right.

3612
02:57:49,200 --> 02:57:51,280
Speaker 2: These are their air to ground munitions that they are

3613
02:57:51,320 --> 02:57:54,280
Speaker 2: equipped with. Standard it's possible India has a separate load

3614
02:57:54,320 --> 02:57:56,760
Speaker 2: out for them. I don't actually know. This is their

3615
02:57:56,800 --> 02:58:00,879
Speaker 2: standard armament now. They can only have their full complement

3616
02:58:01,480 --> 02:58:04,800
Speaker 2: if they're not going supersonic, so they cannot go supersonic

3617
02:58:04,879 --> 02:58:07,039
Speaker 2: for a comparable period of time to a super Hornet

3618
02:58:07,080 --> 02:58:10,520
Speaker 2: if they have a full compliment. From a military technology standpoint,

3619
02:58:10,640 --> 02:58:13,080
Speaker 2: the biggest news from the initial stage of the strike

3620
02:58:13,680 --> 02:58:17,119
Speaker 2: is that at least one of these refalls has been destroyed.

3621
02:58:17,440 --> 02:58:21,480
Speaker 2: There's decent evidence that potentially another two. If India lost

3622
02:58:21,600 --> 02:58:24,720
Speaker 2: three of these jets, they have thirty six. That is

3623
02:58:24,800 --> 02:58:29,000
Speaker 2: a meaningful degradation of their entire air force capability to

3624
02:58:29,080 --> 02:58:32,400
Speaker 2: strike right Losing these jets and they cannot be replaced

3625
02:58:32,440 --> 02:58:35,480
Speaker 2: on any kind of timeframe that is comparable to how

3626
02:58:35,560 --> 02:58:39,600
Speaker 2: quickly they're being shot down. Pakistan is claiming significantly more

3627
02:58:39,680 --> 02:58:42,560
Speaker 2: that they Pakistan's claim is that they've downed three Rafalls,

3628
02:58:42,840 --> 02:58:45,960
Speaker 2: one MiG twenty nine, one SU thirty MKI and at

3629
02:58:46,040 --> 02:58:50,120
Speaker 2: least one Israeli made Herondrone. People generally say Pakistan is

3630
02:58:50,120 --> 02:58:54,600
Speaker 2: probably exaggerating. However, French authorities have confirmed at least one Refall,

3631
02:58:54,720 --> 02:58:57,320
Speaker 2: and there's two more than possibilities that are being looked into.

3632
02:58:57,840 --> 02:59:00,200
Speaker 2: It's possible three planes were downed, but only one are

3633
02:59:00,200 --> 02:59:02,680
Speaker 2: a fall. We don't really know yet, right, but even

3634
02:59:02,760 --> 02:59:05,400
Speaker 2: one is a meaningful loss, and the fact that it

3635
02:59:05,560 --> 02:59:08,280
Speaker 2: was downed says a couple of things. One thing is

3636
02:59:08,360 --> 02:59:11,400
Speaker 2: that there's a decent chance. What I suspect we might hear,

3637
02:59:11,879 --> 02:59:14,560
Speaker 2: especially if three of these went down, is that India

3638
02:59:14,600 --> 02:59:17,520
Speaker 2: sent these things off with a full strike package, so

3639
02:59:17,600 --> 02:59:19,880
Speaker 2: they were not able to go as fast as they

3640
02:59:19,920 --> 02:59:23,039
Speaker 2: normally can, and thus we're not able to evade Pakistan's

3641
02:59:23,080 --> 02:59:26,520
Speaker 2: anti air defenses. Right, That may be what happened. The

3642
02:59:26,600 --> 02:59:29,680
Speaker 2: other thing that we're seeing here is that Pakistan is equipped.

3643
02:59:29,720 --> 02:59:32,520
Speaker 2: They buy the best part and Pakistan has a lot

3644
02:59:32,560 --> 02:59:34,560
Speaker 2: of S three hundreds and S four hundreds, I believe,

3645
02:59:34,600 --> 02:59:36,720
Speaker 2: which are like what we've seen in Ukraine. Those have

3646
02:59:36,800 --> 02:59:39,560
Speaker 2: had a very mixed operational history in terms of their

3647
02:59:39,600 --> 02:59:43,280
Speaker 2: capability to take out modern aircraft. Pakistan also has a

3648
02:59:43,320 --> 02:59:46,640
Speaker 2: lot of PL fifteen radar guided anti air missiles. These

3649
02:59:46,680 --> 02:59:49,480
Speaker 2: are Chinese anti aircraft missiles. They have never been used

3650
02:59:49,520 --> 02:59:52,360
Speaker 2: in combat before. If you're a nerd for like modern

3651
02:59:52,440 --> 02:59:55,120
Speaker 2: military technology, one of the things people have been talking

3652
02:59:55,120 --> 02:59:56,840
Speaker 2: about in that field for a long time is like

3653
02:59:56,879 --> 03:00:00,040
Speaker 2: how are these going to function? And we just I

3654
03:00:00,040 --> 03:00:02,720
Speaker 2: know that they've been used because wreckage from them has

3655
03:00:02,800 --> 03:00:05,960
Speaker 2: been found and photographed and people who are experts in

3656
03:00:06,040 --> 03:00:09,800
Speaker 2: these missiles online have confirmed this is from this weapons package.

3657
03:00:10,320 --> 03:00:13,320
Speaker 2: It is very likely that the Rafaal that was down

3658
03:00:13,520 --> 03:00:15,360
Speaker 2: was downed by this missile, and if more than one

3659
03:00:15,440 --> 03:00:17,280
Speaker 2: was down, that they were all downed by these missiles.

3660
03:00:17,640 --> 03:00:20,720
Speaker 2: So that tells us a lot about the comparable capabilities

3661
03:00:21,000 --> 03:00:23,960
Speaker 2: of both this modern Western fighter that the French are

3662
03:00:24,000 --> 03:00:27,480
Speaker 2: selling and of this Chinese anti aircraft missile. Right, And

3663
03:00:27,600 --> 03:00:30,160
Speaker 2: so that's really relevant if we're looking at both how

3664
03:00:30,280 --> 03:00:32,360
Speaker 2: this conflict is going to proceed, because I don't want

3665
03:00:32,360 --> 03:00:34,200
Speaker 2: to be coming at from this bloodless like, oh, I'm

3666
03:00:34,240 --> 03:00:37,320
Speaker 2: just interested in the military strategy part. This is relevant

3667
03:00:37,360 --> 03:00:40,160
Speaker 2: because if India has lost three of these advanced fighters

3668
03:00:40,640 --> 03:00:43,840
Speaker 2: that they cannot replace on any kind of comparable timeframe

3669
03:00:44,000 --> 03:00:47,840
Speaker 2: in the first few hours of strikes, that suggests one

3670
03:00:47,920 --> 03:00:51,560
Speaker 2: of two potential future outcomes. Number One, the tempo of

3671
03:00:51,760 --> 03:00:54,920
Speaker 2: use of advanced aircraft and this war is going to

3672
03:00:55,120 --> 03:00:58,120
Speaker 2: change considerably as it drags into the next stages, right,

3673
03:00:58,200 --> 03:01:01,480
Speaker 2: because they simply can't maintain that tempo, that can't continue

3674
03:01:01,480 --> 03:01:04,039
Speaker 2: to take those sort of risks, and that either means

3675
03:01:04,879 --> 03:01:08,520
Speaker 2: moving on to a lot more ground engagements between infantry,

3676
03:01:08,600 --> 03:01:11,360
Speaker 2: between tanks, between artillery, like direct face to face shit

3677
03:01:11,879 --> 03:01:14,600
Speaker 2: or a potential for escalating things to the next level

3678
03:01:14,640 --> 03:01:16,760
Speaker 2: And the only next level higher than where we're at

3679
03:01:17,160 --> 03:01:20,640
Speaker 2: is nuclear, right. I don't think that is the likeliest outcome.

3680
03:01:20,800 --> 03:01:23,640
Speaker 2: I do not think a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and

3681
03:01:23,760 --> 03:01:27,760
Speaker 2: India is the likeliest thing at this point. However, the

3682
03:01:27,920 --> 03:01:30,320
Speaker 2: rate at which India is a tritting air assets means

3683
03:01:30,360 --> 03:01:32,080
Speaker 2: that they're going to have to make a choice in

3684
03:01:32,160 --> 03:01:35,280
Speaker 2: the not too distant future. Right, Although it's also worth

3685
03:01:35,360 --> 03:01:38,840
Speaker 2: noting we don't know entirely the degree to which Pakistan's

3686
03:01:38,879 --> 03:01:41,360
Speaker 2: anti air defenses have been attreated by this. Right, there's

3687
03:01:41,360 --> 03:01:43,720
Speaker 2: a lot of open there's a lot of unknown unknowns

3688
03:01:43,800 --> 03:01:44,800
Speaker 2: and known unknowns here.

3689
03:01:45,000 --> 03:01:45,120
Speaker 12: Right.

3690
03:01:45,240 --> 03:01:48,160
Speaker 2: As our good friend Rumsfeld would say, I will say

3691
03:01:48,200 --> 03:01:50,800
Speaker 2: the other issue here, if there is a nuclear exchange,

3692
03:01:51,360 --> 03:01:54,279
Speaker 2: it's going to be the greatest humanitarian catastrophe of the century.

3693
03:01:54,720 --> 03:01:57,160
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean it's going to be a nuclear war

3694
03:01:57,440 --> 03:01:59,920
Speaker 2: across the entire world. And that shouldn't be your first concern.

3695
03:02:00,120 --> 03:02:02,120
Speaker 2: Your first concern should be that that would still mean

3696
03:02:02,200 --> 03:02:05,640
Speaker 2: millions of deaths in India and Pakistan, potentially at least

3697
03:02:05,760 --> 03:02:06,520
Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands.

3698
03:02:06,760 --> 03:02:06,880
Speaker 1: Right.

3699
03:02:07,320 --> 03:02:09,800
Speaker 2: The concern is not they start so everyone else does,

3700
03:02:09,879 --> 03:02:13,200
Speaker 2: it's they start and thus the worst humanitarian disaster since

3701
03:02:13,280 --> 03:02:14,360
Speaker 2: World War Two occurs.

3702
03:02:14,959 --> 03:02:15,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3703
03:02:15,200 --> 03:02:17,840
Speaker 1: I mean some of the most densely populated cities on

3704
03:02:18,000 --> 03:02:20,640
Speaker 1: Earth are in this region. Like a strike in any

3705
03:02:20,680 --> 03:02:22,160
Speaker 1: major city that would be devastating.

3706
03:02:22,400 --> 03:02:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, a strike in Islamabad would be the worst thing

3707
03:02:24,520 --> 03:02:27,680
Speaker 2: that's happened, possibly since the Holocaust in terms of like

3708
03:02:27,840 --> 03:02:30,240
Speaker 2: human death told due to human actions.

3709
03:02:30,720 --> 03:02:32,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty bad.

3710
03:02:33,000 --> 03:02:33,200
Speaker 5: I know.

3711
03:02:33,400 --> 03:02:36,720
Speaker 1: India claimed that they were launching a quote non escalatory

3712
03:02:36,800 --> 03:02:38,560
Speaker 1: strike in it so much as that means shit.

3713
03:02:38,840 --> 03:02:39,000
Speaker 3: Yes.

3714
03:02:39,360 --> 03:02:42,000
Speaker 1: They also claimed that they PL fifteen didn't have its

3715
03:02:42,040 --> 03:02:44,560
Speaker 1: intercept ahead, which I guess the French intelligence refuted.

3716
03:02:44,720 --> 03:02:47,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is all There's a lot that's unknown

3717
03:02:47,280 --> 03:02:49,480
Speaker 2: about kind of how these weapons have performed. Still, but

3718
03:02:49,600 --> 03:02:52,120
Speaker 2: these are from a in terms of both how this

3719
03:02:52,240 --> 03:02:55,160
Speaker 2: conflict is going to proceed and how future conflicts will proceed.

3720
03:02:55,480 --> 03:02:57,160
Speaker 2: These are things you should be looking at because these

3721
03:02:57,200 --> 03:02:59,760
Speaker 2: weapons platforms, these are this is important in terms of

3722
03:03:00,080 --> 03:03:01,600
Speaker 2: what war is going to continue to look like.

3723
03:03:02,440 --> 03:03:04,360
Speaker 3: I think it's also worth noting a couple of things.

3724
03:03:04,680 --> 03:03:08,640
Speaker 3: One is that this is by far the largest like

3725
03:03:09,360 --> 03:03:11,560
Speaker 3: clash that these countries have had in a long time.

3726
03:03:11,640 --> 03:03:14,440
Speaker 3: But also like there have been like periodic like cross

3727
03:03:14,480 --> 03:03:17,360
Speaker 3: border skirmishes around cashume for a while now, right like

3728
03:03:17,400 --> 03:03:20,119
Speaker 3: there was a pretty big flare up in twenty twenty

3729
03:03:20,240 --> 03:03:22,680
Speaker 3: that kind of less than twenty twenty one, And so

3730
03:03:22,800 --> 03:03:25,760
Speaker 3: there is a chance that this doesn't turn into a

3731
03:03:25,800 --> 03:03:28,120
Speaker 3: full scale war and that you get something more like

3732
03:03:28,840 --> 03:03:33,640
Speaker 3: what happened sort of recently with Israel and Ran where

3733
03:03:33,680 --> 03:03:36,680
Speaker 3: they like bomb each other a few times and then

3734
03:03:36,680 --> 03:03:38,560
Speaker 3: everyone sort of packs up their bags and goes home

3735
03:03:38,640 --> 03:03:41,840
Speaker 3: and continues to like poke each other with milton groups

3736
03:03:42,080 --> 03:03:46,000
Speaker 3: instead of it being like tanks. And I think that

3737
03:03:46,200 --> 03:03:50,160
Speaker 3: is like orders of magnitude more likely than like nukes flying.

3738
03:03:50,920 --> 03:03:53,840
Speaker 3: Just it's sort of like, yeah, like the chance at

3739
03:03:53,879 --> 03:03:55,920
Speaker 3: which these people start shooting dukes to each other is

3740
03:03:56,040 --> 03:03:58,440
Speaker 3: not very high. Like yes, just like in the history

3741
03:03:58,480 --> 03:04:00,920
Speaker 3: of nuclear weapons too, you have to underst that, like

3742
03:04:01,000 --> 03:04:03,040
Speaker 3: some of the most unhinged people who have ever lived,

3743
03:04:03,120 --> 03:04:06,200
Speaker 3: like Curtis le may like the US and the Soviets

3744
03:04:06,280 --> 03:04:09,160
Speaker 3: never did it like Mao Mao and the Soviets never

3745
03:04:09,240 --> 03:04:12,760
Speaker 3: did it. Like apartheid South Africa had nuclear weapons and

3746
03:04:12,840 --> 03:04:15,000
Speaker 3: never used them. Some of the worst people who have

3747
03:04:15,040 --> 03:04:17,360
Speaker 3: ever lived have had access to nukes, have never fired them.

3748
03:04:17,680 --> 03:04:20,320
Speaker 3: The odds that you're gonna die in nuclear fire are

3749
03:04:20,760 --> 03:04:23,560
Speaker 3: very very very very very low. It's not good. No,

3750
03:04:23,720 --> 03:04:26,520
Speaker 3: everything that's happening here is very bad. But like you

3751
03:04:26,840 --> 03:04:30,360
Speaker 3: do not need to be like living in existential terror

3752
03:04:30,520 --> 03:04:33,360
Speaker 3: of like fire ring from the sky. That's not like

3753
03:04:33,440 --> 03:04:35,040
Speaker 3: a reasonable reaction to this, and I've been seeing a

3754
03:04:35,040 --> 03:04:35,320
Speaker 3: lot of that.

3755
03:04:35,520 --> 03:04:40,000
Speaker 2: So no, it's far from the likeliest outcome, and your

3756
03:04:40,040 --> 03:04:43,400
Speaker 2: primary concern should be to people who are living there

3757
03:04:43,480 --> 03:04:43,879
Speaker 2: right now.

3758
03:04:44,280 --> 03:04:45,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, right.

3759
03:04:45,920 --> 03:04:48,360
Speaker 2: You know, it's worth noting that the nineteen ninety nine,

3760
03:04:48,440 --> 03:04:51,920
Speaker 2: the Cargo War, that was not an insignificant death toll, right,

3761
03:04:52,160 --> 03:04:56,320
Speaker 2: Like you're talking probably like certainly more than a thousand,

3762
03:04:56,440 --> 03:04:58,760
Speaker 2: I think a thousand to a couple of thousand people,

3763
03:04:59,640 --> 03:05:03,280
Speaker 2: So that would not be that's not certainly not out

3764
03:05:03,400 --> 03:05:06,240
Speaker 2: of the question without it escalating in that way. I

3765
03:05:06,280 --> 03:05:09,200
Speaker 2: think the primary concern that you always have, and why

3766
03:05:09,240 --> 03:05:11,760
Speaker 2: I bring up weapons systems. Is that countries think in

3767
03:05:11,920 --> 03:05:13,640
Speaker 2: terms of stuff like this a lot. This is a

3768
03:05:13,680 --> 03:05:15,280
Speaker 2: big part of why we get World War one, Right.

3769
03:05:15,360 --> 03:05:17,520
Speaker 2: You have these nations that are arming, and they're always

3770
03:05:17,560 --> 03:05:20,039
Speaker 2: concerned with how do my weapons compare to my neighbors

3771
03:05:20,640 --> 03:05:22,520
Speaker 2: if we go to war. Now, I feel pretty good

3772
03:05:22,560 --> 03:05:25,119
Speaker 2: about where I'm at, and if I wait another two years,

3773
03:05:25,200 --> 03:05:27,960
Speaker 2: maybe they'll be in a better position. And thinking like

3774
03:05:28,080 --> 03:05:30,960
Speaker 2: that is part of the planning that's going on in

3775
03:05:31,000 --> 03:05:33,320
Speaker 2: these states, and the planning about when do we escalate

3776
03:05:33,360 --> 03:05:36,000
Speaker 2: and how do we escalate? Right, do we move to

3777
03:05:36,040 --> 03:05:38,600
Speaker 2: a point where we've got masses of infantry shooting at

3778
03:05:38,600 --> 03:05:41,840
Speaker 2: each other, Well, maybe if we can't risk the continued

3779
03:05:41,840 --> 03:05:44,600
Speaker 2: attrition of our advanced air assets, we do that, or

3780
03:05:44,640 --> 03:05:47,080
Speaker 2: maybe we make another decision. That's why it's relevant to

3781
03:05:47,160 --> 03:05:48,800
Speaker 2: know about this stuff, not because you want to nerd

3782
03:05:48,879 --> 03:05:50,840
Speaker 2: out over who's got the coolest missile and who's got

3783
03:05:50,920 --> 03:05:53,400
Speaker 2: the coolest planes, but because that is very much how

3784
03:05:53,480 --> 03:05:57,000
Speaker 2: states think. Right Anyway, before we got to add this

3785
03:05:57,080 --> 03:05:59,640
Speaker 2: back to the executive dysfunction, because that is what this

3786
03:05:59,720 --> 03:06:03,160
Speaker 2: is a yeah, not the current Wars podcast. In the

3787
03:06:03,240 --> 03:06:06,560
Speaker 2: immediate wake of all of this, President Trump was asked about, Hey,

3788
03:06:07,800 --> 03:06:10,640
Speaker 2: how about these two nuclear armed states going to war?

3789
03:06:10,920 --> 03:06:13,560
Speaker 2: What do you think about that? And he gave a,

3790
03:06:14,080 --> 03:06:18,280
Speaker 2: you know, just a traditionally eloquent, you know, Donald Trump response,

3791
03:06:18,600 --> 03:06:20,840
Speaker 2: It's a shame we just heard about it. I guess

3792
03:06:20,959 --> 03:06:23,200
Speaker 2: people knew something was going to happen based on a

3793
03:06:23,240 --> 03:06:25,560
Speaker 2: little bit of the past. They've been fighting for a

3794
03:06:25,640 --> 03:06:32,920
Speaker 2: long time. I just hope it ends quickly. Me too, buddy, correct,

3795
03:06:33,720 --> 03:06:39,640
Speaker 2: I guess I guess they've been fighting for a long time. Okay, anyway,

3796
03:06:40,360 --> 03:06:41,240
Speaker 2: let's go to ads.

3797
03:06:53,360 --> 03:06:56,280
Speaker 4: All right, we are back. I'm gonna talk now about

3798
03:06:56,360 --> 03:07:03,480
Speaker 4: some other horrifying geopolitical news. Hey, this is Garrison from Friday,

3799
03:07:03,640 --> 03:07:06,640
Speaker 4: May ninth. I have a correction to make on the

3800
03:07:06,720 --> 03:07:09,360
Speaker 4: original copy of this episode. I made an error in

3801
03:07:09,520 --> 03:07:12,880
Speaker 4: saying Greta Thunberg was aboard a humanitarian aid ship off

3802
03:07:12,959 --> 03:07:16,520
Speaker 4: the coast of Italy that was airstriked by Israel. The

3803
03:07:16,640 --> 03:07:20,119
Speaker 4: ship was indeed attacked, but she was not on that ship.

3804
03:07:20,240 --> 03:07:22,480
Speaker 4: I watched a video of her discussing the attack and

3805
03:07:22,560 --> 03:07:25,279
Speaker 4: it sounded first person, and then we recorded shortly thereafter.

3806
03:07:25,760 --> 03:07:27,840
Speaker 4: But now it's clear she was not on the ship

3807
03:07:28,160 --> 03:07:32,240
Speaker 4: but instead planned to board later that day on the

3808
03:07:32,360 --> 03:07:35,000
Speaker 4: way to Gaza as a part of the humanitarian aid

3809
03:07:35,160 --> 03:07:39,720
Speaker 4: organization the Freedom Flotilla Coalition. More than a dozen other

3810
03:07:39,840 --> 03:07:42,160
Speaker 4: aid workers were aboard the vessel when it was hit,

3811
03:07:42,800 --> 03:07:46,600
Speaker 4: and this relates to the larger humanitarian aid crisis in Gaza.

3812
03:07:47,120 --> 03:07:50,160
Speaker 4: Now back to the episode. The past two months, Israel

3813
03:07:50,200 --> 03:07:54,000
Speaker 4: has forcibly cut off all food, water, machines, supplies, and

3814
03:07:54,360 --> 03:07:58,520
Speaker 4: other humanitarian aid to Gaza, starving the Palestinian people as

3815
03:07:58,560 --> 03:08:01,680
Speaker 4: not now who continues to reject see fire deals. Reports

3816
03:08:01,720 --> 03:08:03,440
Speaker 4: from the UN say that Gaza will run out of

3817
03:08:03,480 --> 03:08:04,400
Speaker 4: food in days.

3818
03:08:05,040 --> 03:08:07,680
Speaker 2: Yep, I mean it looks like a starvation genocide. I

3819
03:08:07,680 --> 03:08:10,000
Speaker 2: don't know how else to phrase this. There's really nothing else.

3820
03:08:10,640 --> 03:08:13,440
Speaker 2: This isn't the time to mince words. Like every piece

3821
03:08:13,480 --> 03:08:16,560
Speaker 2: of evidence suggests this is a starvation genocide being carried out.

3822
03:08:16,600 --> 03:08:19,480
Speaker 2: But they're trying to starve this population to death or

3823
03:08:19,600 --> 03:08:22,760
Speaker 2: until they all leave, which is the same. Genocide does

3824
03:08:22,840 --> 03:08:25,160
Speaker 2: not necessarily mean you kill everyone. It is the forced

3825
03:08:25,240 --> 03:08:27,600
Speaker 2: killing and or displacement of a population.

3826
03:08:28,000 --> 03:08:28,200
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3827
03:08:28,640 --> 03:08:31,840
Speaker 4: Israel says that the Palestinians still have food for a

3828
03:08:31,879 --> 03:08:35,160
Speaker 4: few months, but the Yuan and other eight organizations say

3829
03:08:35,240 --> 03:08:39,440
Speaker 4: that is not true now. Last Sunday night, Israel's Security

3830
03:08:39,520 --> 03:08:43,879
Speaker 4: Cabinet approved a plan to reoccupy and hold the Gaza

3831
03:08:43,959 --> 03:08:46,800
Speaker 4: Strip if a new Seaspire deal isn't reached by May fifteenth,

3832
03:08:47,440 --> 03:08:51,600
Speaker 4: while Yahoo and Israel officials continue to undermine negotiations for

3833
03:08:51,760 --> 03:08:57,240
Speaker 4: a permanent ceasefire. This plan is called Gideon's Chariots.

3834
03:08:57,200 --> 03:08:58,560
Speaker 2: Jesus fucking Christ.

3835
03:08:58,959 --> 03:09:01,000
Speaker 4: The plan is for the idea to invade with four

3836
03:09:01,040 --> 03:09:06,400
Speaker 4: to five armored infantry divisions, mobilizing uproots of seventy thousand reservists,

3837
03:09:06,879 --> 03:09:11,360
Speaker 4: which would gradually occupy and secure basically the entire Gaza Strip.

3838
03:09:11,720 --> 03:09:16,400
Speaker 4: According to Israel's Finance Minister, this IDF occupation would be permanent,

3839
03:09:16,800 --> 03:09:20,320
Speaker 4: not even pulling back with the release of any remaining hostages,

3840
03:09:20,560 --> 03:09:23,320
Speaker 4: though other Israeli officials disagree on this and say this

3841
03:09:23,400 --> 03:09:27,000
Speaker 4: would be a temporary occupation. Pretty hard to take their

3842
03:09:27,080 --> 03:09:31,920
Speaker 4: word on that all remaining buildings would be destroyed, flattening

3843
03:09:31,959 --> 03:09:34,200
Speaker 4: the entirety of the strip, just like Rafa and the

3844
03:09:34,320 --> 03:09:38,480
Speaker 4: northern side. Amir Aviv, the founder of the Israel Defense

3845
03:09:38,600 --> 03:09:41,440
Speaker 4: and Security Forum think tank and a former deputy commander

3846
03:09:41,520 --> 03:09:44,800
Speaker 4: of the Israeli forces, say, quote, this is the only

3847
03:09:44,920 --> 03:09:49,240
Speaker 4: way to eradicate Hamas militarily and governmentally is to take

3848
03:09:49,360 --> 03:09:53,560
Speaker 4: over Gaza and to conquer the area and destroy them unquote.

3849
03:09:54,360 --> 03:09:58,640
Speaker 4: There's some added complications with like legally like occupying Gaza

3850
03:09:58,840 --> 03:10:02,879
Speaker 4: under the Geneva Convention, a formal occupation would require Israel

3851
03:10:02,959 --> 03:10:06,080
Speaker 4: to have the capacity to operate as an official government

3852
03:10:06,160 --> 03:10:10,280
Speaker 4: authority in this region. Now there's no indication that Israel

3853
03:10:10,280 --> 03:10:12,880
Speaker 4: will follow the Genema Convention as they haven't.

3854
03:10:13,040 --> 03:10:15,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's Israel. They never have given a shit.

3855
03:10:15,520 --> 03:10:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't see why we'd expect that.

3856
03:10:18,160 --> 03:10:21,720
Speaker 4: But if they do occupy, they would be more like

3857
03:10:21,920 --> 03:10:25,119
Speaker 4: liable for the well being of the Palestinians that would

3858
03:10:25,160 --> 03:10:28,040
Speaker 4: be inside the territory, and the IDEF doesn't have a

3859
03:10:28,040 --> 03:10:31,480
Speaker 4: plan for this. They are planning to forcedly relocate around

3860
03:10:31,560 --> 03:10:36,199
Speaker 4: two million Palestinians to a single quote unquote humanitarian area

3861
03:10:36,959 --> 03:10:40,480
Speaker 4: which is positioned in the rubble of Ratha, where secure

3862
03:10:40,560 --> 03:10:44,760
Speaker 4: quote unquote compounds are being constructed to distribute food and

3863
03:10:44,760 --> 03:10:48,440
Speaker 4: supplies to Palestinians who are screened and approved as not

3864
03:10:48,680 --> 03:10:53,600
Speaker 4: being members of Hamas. This area will be managed by

3865
03:10:53,720 --> 03:10:57,920
Speaker 4: private US companies and a quote unquote new international foundation

3866
03:10:58,640 --> 03:11:02,720
Speaker 4: which works with Israel and the United States. Established aid

3867
03:11:02,840 --> 03:11:05,040
Speaker 4: organizations in the un announced that they would not be

3868
03:11:05,080 --> 03:11:08,480
Speaker 4: participating in running these quote unquote compounds, calling this a

3869
03:11:08,560 --> 03:11:11,680
Speaker 4: tactic to give the Israeli military even more power over

3870
03:11:11,800 --> 03:11:15,200
Speaker 4: how aid is distributed, saying in a statement, quote it

3871
03:11:15,320 --> 03:11:20,600
Speaker 4: contravenes fundamental humanitarian principles and appears designed to reinforce control

3872
03:11:20,680 --> 03:11:23,560
Speaker 4: over life sustaining items as a pressure tactic as a

3873
03:11:23,600 --> 03:11:27,000
Speaker 4: part of a military strategy. It is dangerous driving civilians

3874
03:11:27,040 --> 03:11:31,120
Speaker 4: into militarized zones to collect rations threatening lives, including those

3875
03:11:31,160 --> 03:11:35,360
Speaker 4: of humanitarian workers, while further entrenching forced displacement.

3876
03:11:35,640 --> 03:11:38,520
Speaker 1: On quotep Yeah, an.

3877
03:11:38,520 --> 03:11:41,160
Speaker 4: Israeli official said the only alternative to being moved to

3878
03:11:41,280 --> 03:11:44,960
Speaker 4: this quote unquote humanitarian area would be to leave Gaza

3879
03:11:45,040 --> 03:11:49,320
Speaker 4: quote unquote voluntarily to other countries, citing Trump's plan to

3880
03:11:49,400 --> 03:11:55,240
Speaker 4: resettle displaced Palestinians. Robert James, Mia, do you wanna comment

3881
03:11:55,320 --> 03:11:55,560
Speaker 4: on this?

3882
03:11:56,600 --> 03:11:59,520
Speaker 1: It's not much to say, is that, Like it's they're

3883
03:11:59,640 --> 03:12:01,960
Speaker 1: just saying the thing that they've been going for for

3884
03:12:02,000 --> 03:12:04,120
Speaker 1: a while now, which is the removal of ale panistin

3885
03:12:04,200 --> 03:12:06,720
Speaker 1: Gut people from the Goddess trip, either in body bags

3886
03:12:06,840 --> 03:12:08,119
Speaker 1: or to live somewhere else.

3887
03:12:08,160 --> 03:12:10,359
Speaker 3: I guess it's just straight up a genocide, Like they're

3888
03:12:10,400 --> 03:12:11,480
Speaker 3: describing a genocide.

3889
03:12:11,680 --> 03:12:14,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no doubting it. Like I don't even know, Like,

3890
03:12:15,120 --> 03:12:16,320
Speaker 2: is what is there to say?

3891
03:12:17,200 --> 03:12:17,360
Speaker 1: Right?

3892
03:12:18,280 --> 03:12:21,640
Speaker 2: Like at this point, I almost think other than obviously

3893
03:12:21,760 --> 03:12:24,480
Speaker 2: documenting what's happening is important, the only important thing to

3894
03:12:24,600 --> 03:12:26,600
Speaker 2: try to talk of it is like how can this

3895
03:12:26,800 --> 03:12:31,240
Speaker 2: be stopped? And or how can a degree of like

3896
03:12:31,440 --> 03:12:35,360
Speaker 2: what does justice look like at some point down the line?

3897
03:12:35,560 --> 03:12:39,400
Speaker 2: What should be done? You know, Like these are questions

3898
03:12:39,480 --> 03:12:42,560
Speaker 2: to ask, but like to just like I don't know

3899
03:12:42,600 --> 03:12:44,800
Speaker 2: what to keep saying other than like, yep, they're trying

3900
03:12:44,879 --> 03:12:46,320
Speaker 2: to wipe out Gaza like.

3901
03:12:47,440 --> 03:12:50,600
Speaker 4: Well, and specifically the use of these like quote unquote compounds,

3902
03:12:51,080 --> 03:12:54,879
Speaker 4: You're like rounding up and keeping people inside one secure.

3903
03:12:54,480 --> 03:12:56,360
Speaker 3: Area, concentrating them in camps.

3904
03:12:56,760 --> 03:12:58,880
Speaker 4: Like come on, guys, you're just setting up camps for

3905
03:12:58,959 --> 03:13:01,440
Speaker 4: Palestinians on the south side of the Strip and like

3906
03:13:01,520 --> 03:13:04,360
Speaker 4: that's all that this is as they reoccupy and hold

3907
03:13:04,400 --> 03:13:09,560
Speaker 4: the entirety to quote unquote eliminate Hamas. So this Monday,

3908
03:13:09,600 --> 03:13:11,960
Speaker 4: Trump's going to start a three day visit to Saudi Arabia,

3909
03:13:12,120 --> 03:13:15,120
Speaker 4: Cutter and the United Arab Emirates. This is while the

3910
03:13:15,240 --> 03:13:18,400
Speaker 4: US government has taken a backfoot on Gaza negotiations while

3911
03:13:18,640 --> 03:13:21,360
Speaker 4: still backing up net Yahoo and any actions taken by

3912
03:13:21,360 --> 03:13:25,959
Speaker 4: the Israeli military. Yeah, so we will know more about

3913
03:13:26,360 --> 03:13:29,920
Speaker 4: what Israel is actually going to do immediately in the

3914
03:13:30,000 --> 03:13:32,920
Speaker 4: region in like a week's time, though. It looks like

3915
03:13:32,959 --> 03:13:34,960
Speaker 4: they are going to be going forward with this May

3916
03:13:35,040 --> 03:13:36,680
Speaker 4: fifteenth reoccupation plan.

3917
03:13:37,440 --> 03:13:37,680
Speaker 6: Cool.

3918
03:13:38,280 --> 03:13:43,480
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, so more good news from me. Immigration update.

3919
03:13:43,879 --> 03:13:46,880
Speaker 1: The New York Times today on the this is Wednesday,

3920
03:13:46,920 --> 03:13:51,080
Speaker 1: the seventh is reporting that the Trump administration is as

3921
03:13:51,120 --> 03:13:53,840
Speaker 1: soon as today. I checked this before recording. The plan

3922
03:13:53,920 --> 03:13:59,040
Speaker 1: hadn't taken off planning to ship people to migrants to Libya.

3923
03:14:00,040 --> 03:14:03,160
Speaker 1: Nationalities of people being renditioned there are not clear, but

3924
03:14:03,280 --> 03:14:05,840
Speaker 1: my guess would be that these are third party nationals

3925
03:14:05,920 --> 03:14:08,880
Speaker 1: that the US can't deport to their home countries like

3926
03:14:09,000 --> 03:14:12,280
Speaker 1: they previously deported these people to Panama and to Elsabadov.

3927
03:14:12,760 --> 03:14:16,600
Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with migrant detention in Libya, conditions

3928
03:14:16,760 --> 03:14:22,320
Speaker 1: are horrific, like among the worst things that can happen

3929
03:14:22,440 --> 03:14:25,560
Speaker 1: to people. The situation in Libya is currently the country

3930
03:14:25,640 --> 03:14:29,200
Speaker 1: is divided between the Tripoli government, which is recognized by

3931
03:14:29,200 --> 03:14:31,640
Speaker 1: the UN and which the US has formal government government

3932
03:14:31,680 --> 03:14:36,160
Speaker 1: relationships with, and Hafta's government based in Benghazi, which the

3933
03:14:36,280 --> 03:14:42,480
Speaker 1: Trump regime has associated with. Before. We have covered conditions

3934
03:14:42,560 --> 03:14:45,280
Speaker 1: in Libyan migrant detention camps before, which I'll check in

3935
03:14:45,320 --> 03:14:49,200
Speaker 1: the show notes. And we also talked about the dangers

3936
03:14:49,200 --> 03:14:51,280
Speaker 1: faced by people leaving Libya towards the EU in a

3937
03:14:51,320 --> 03:14:55,280
Speaker 1: different episode which I also list but to recap. Reports

3938
03:14:55,360 --> 03:15:02,200
Speaker 1: document starvation, rape, murder, slavery, and organ harves occurring in Libya.

3939
03:15:02,760 --> 03:15:05,520
Speaker 1: Mass graves, including one last year that was found with

3940
03:15:05,600 --> 03:15:09,560
Speaker 1: sixty five bodies in it, are not uncommon. To quote

3941
03:15:09,600 --> 03:15:12,960
Speaker 1: from David Yambio. David Yambio is someone who was He

3942
03:15:13,240 --> 03:15:15,600
Speaker 1: was sold and then forced to fight in a militia

3943
03:15:15,680 --> 03:15:19,080
Speaker 1: in Libya, and I think I believe he escaped and

3944
03:15:19,200 --> 03:15:21,520
Speaker 1: he is now in I think he's in Italy, but

3945
03:15:21,600 --> 03:15:24,480
Speaker 1: he's ready to be outspoken on this stuff. The slave

3946
03:15:24,560 --> 03:15:27,160
Speaker 1: trade is alive and thriving in Libya. It thrives in

3947
03:15:27,240 --> 03:15:30,200
Speaker 1: the silence of nations, in the shadows of complicit systems,

3948
03:15:30,560 --> 03:15:34,000
Speaker 1: and then the unchecked racism that dehumanizes black lives in

3949
03:15:34,800 --> 03:15:40,000
Speaker 1: other Immigration News. The government's attempt to delay Rumsa Oztek's

3950
03:15:40,040 --> 03:15:44,120
Speaker 1: return to Vermont was rejected by the second Circuit, so

3951
03:15:44,280 --> 03:15:46,760
Speaker 1: that means that she will have to be returned to

3952
03:15:47,520 --> 03:15:50,080
Speaker 1: She was arrested in Massachusetts, if you remember, for writing

3953
03:15:50,120 --> 03:15:50,560
Speaker 1: an op.

3954
03:15:50,520 --> 03:15:51,680
Speaker 4: Ed at tux University.

3955
03:15:51,800 --> 03:15:52,000
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3956
03:15:52,320 --> 03:15:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, moved across state borders to Vermont and from their

3957
03:15:55,600 --> 03:15:59,720
Speaker 1: Central Louisiana. So the habeas case was transferred to Vermont

3958
03:15:59,840 --> 03:16:03,920
Speaker 1: and has a rule that the government cannotter laboring her

3959
03:16:04,000 --> 03:16:09,320
Speaker 1: back there anymore. Another flight containing eighty one migrants left

3960
03:16:09,480 --> 03:16:13,320
Speaker 1: Panama yesterday at the United States expense. This is a

3961
03:16:13,360 --> 03:16:16,560
Speaker 1: continuation of a plan that the Biaen administration installed in

3962
03:16:16,680 --> 03:16:20,000
Speaker 1: summer last year, and the Trump administration has continued whereby

3963
03:16:20,040 --> 03:16:25,440
Speaker 1: the US funds deportations from Panama. Meanwhile, Tokyo Weekender in

3964
03:16:25,560 --> 03:16:28,880
Speaker 1: Japan is reporting that the United States is asking people

3965
03:16:29,040 --> 03:16:33,280
Speaker 1: to show five years of social media history in order

3966
03:16:33,320 --> 03:16:36,640
Speaker 1: to obtain a student visa, just to like put that

3967
03:16:36,720 --> 03:16:39,080
Speaker 1: in perspective for people. So you have to eventher those

3968
03:16:39,080 --> 03:16:42,280
Speaker 1: accounts are deleted or no longer used. You have to

3969
03:16:42,360 --> 03:16:45,560
Speaker 1: declare them all on your form. If you're applying for

3970
03:16:45,600 --> 03:16:47,720
Speaker 1: a student visa and you're at the younger end of

3971
03:16:47,800 --> 03:16:50,920
Speaker 1: a traditional aged undergraduate. You could have to list every

3972
03:16:50,959 --> 03:16:54,200
Speaker 1: social media account you've had since you were twelve on

3973
03:16:54,560 --> 03:16:57,920
Speaker 1: this form. And the US has required disclosure for a while,

3974
03:16:58,000 --> 03:16:59,840
Speaker 1: but like, it hasn't been a practical thing. I have

3975
03:17:00,240 --> 03:17:03,400
Speaker 1: really ever heard from any one of anybody's visa being

3976
03:17:03,480 --> 03:17:07,000
Speaker 1: denied or asylum being denied based on social media posting.

3977
03:17:07,800 --> 03:17:10,320
Speaker 1: But this is now something that that they are asking

3978
03:17:10,400 --> 03:17:14,120
Speaker 1: people to disclose well and requiring, not like requiring it,

3979
03:17:14,320 --> 03:17:16,080
Speaker 1: not asking it is it is. It is going to

3980
03:17:16,120 --> 03:17:19,119
Speaker 1: be like an enforced requirement in a way that before

3981
03:17:19,320 --> 03:17:22,800
Speaker 1: it really hasn't been. It's the term that the law

3982
03:17:22,879 --> 03:17:25,480
Speaker 1: firm used in this piece is like in the past,

3983
03:17:25,560 --> 03:17:28,640
Speaker 1: this has been mostly quote unquote negligible. Yeah, and now

3984
03:17:28,720 --> 03:17:32,280
Speaker 1: this is something that the Department of State is really

3985
03:17:32,400 --> 03:17:37,720
Speaker 1: being adamant about, yeah, which will massively delay the time

3986
03:17:37,800 --> 03:17:40,560
Speaker 1: to process visa applications on top of everything else.

3987
03:17:40,800 --> 03:17:43,720
Speaker 4: People in Japan have compared this to two policies similar

3988
03:17:43,800 --> 03:17:46,080
Speaker 4: to that of China's Cultural Revolution.

3989
03:17:47,400 --> 03:17:47,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3990
03:17:48,160 --> 03:17:50,800
Speaker 1: I mean I've been to other countries to be clear,

3991
03:17:50,879 --> 03:17:52,840
Speaker 1: where they open up your social media and look at

3992
03:17:52,879 --> 03:17:54,640
Speaker 1: it when when you're entering. But this is not a

3993
03:17:54,680 --> 03:17:58,560
Speaker 1: thing that anyone has ever associated with the United States. Finally,

3994
03:17:58,800 --> 03:18:02,040
Speaker 1: I guess the Freedom of Press Foundation got some documentary

3995
03:18:02,040 --> 03:18:05,080
Speaker 1: reliefs under a federal Freedom of Information Act. The outline

3996
03:18:05,120 --> 03:18:08,600
Speaker 1: that the intelligence community did not believe that the Madua

3997
03:18:08,680 --> 03:18:11,440
Speaker 1: regime was controlling tender Agua, which was one of the

3998
03:18:11,480 --> 03:18:15,840
Speaker 1: claims that Trump administration has made in its invocation of

3999
03:18:15,959 --> 03:18:19,480
Speaker 1: the Alien Enemies Act. Right, So it's just kind of

4000
03:18:19,879 --> 03:18:21,920
Speaker 1: I think most people who pay any attention to the

4001
03:18:21,959 --> 03:18:25,560
Speaker 1: situation weren't really buying that, but it's showing that this

4002
03:18:25,720 --> 03:18:30,160
Speaker 1: was documented by the US intelligence community as well. So, yeah,

4003
03:18:30,200 --> 03:18:34,480
Speaker 1: any anything to add that the Libya stuff is bleak,

4004
03:18:34,760 --> 03:18:37,640
Speaker 1: Like it hasn't got much coverage in the US. We

4005
03:18:37,800 --> 03:18:40,680
Speaker 1: have covered it before, but the European Union is already

4006
03:18:40,760 --> 03:18:43,280
Speaker 1: complicit in the terrible treatment of migrants in Libya, and

4007
03:18:43,520 --> 03:18:45,920
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and for ages it has happened, for ages

4008
03:18:46,000 --> 03:18:48,400
Speaker 1: like the so called Libyan Coast Guard of bringing people

4009
03:18:48,440 --> 03:18:51,400
Speaker 1: back to Libya and like literally selling them from shelters

4010
03:18:51,480 --> 03:18:55,680
Speaker 1: to human traffickers. I mean, we've more or less kind

4011
03:18:55,680 --> 03:18:59,520
Speaker 1: of lined up behind some of the worst places on Earth,

4012
03:18:59,840 --> 03:19:03,440
Speaker 1: like in terms of migrant detention. Right with SECOT and this.

4013
03:19:03,879 --> 03:19:07,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, more and more families are figuring out that like

4014
03:19:07,640 --> 03:19:10,280
Speaker 4: their family members have been sent to SCOT, like people

4015
03:19:10,320 --> 03:19:12,440
Speaker 4: who have not been named an official documentation. They've been

4016
03:19:12,440 --> 03:19:15,520
Speaker 4: able to like search through these propaganda videos and identify

4017
03:19:15,680 --> 03:19:19,680
Speaker 4: more people. So they're launching court cases to have them returned,

4018
03:19:20,680 --> 03:19:24,040
Speaker 4: people who very clearly have had no gang affiliation. Not

4019
03:19:24,160 --> 03:19:26,280
Speaker 4: that that should even matter when you're sending people to

4020
03:19:26,360 --> 03:19:27,199
Speaker 4: the forever prison.

4021
03:19:28,040 --> 03:19:28,240
Speaker 6: Yeah.

4022
03:19:28,879 --> 03:19:31,000
Speaker 1: I saw one guy we had a Donald Duck tattoo,

4023
03:19:31,080 --> 03:19:34,760
Speaker 1: and that was I guess the decisive claim there. Right,

4024
03:19:34,800 --> 03:19:38,320
Speaker 1: there's a form that ICE agents fill out and there's

4025
03:19:38,320 --> 03:19:39,879
Speaker 1: a number of points they after a mass. I believe

4026
03:19:39,879 --> 03:19:41,520
Speaker 1: it's three points, and one of the things that can

4027
03:19:41,560 --> 03:19:43,960
Speaker 1: allow you to a mass three points. It's like, I

4028
03:19:44,040 --> 03:19:47,600
Speaker 1: think two points come from a tattoo which they decide

4029
03:19:47,640 --> 03:19:49,320
Speaker 1: to be gang affiliated and.

4030
03:19:49,360 --> 03:19:52,360
Speaker 2: No, and again, like they seem to just be saying

4031
03:19:52,440 --> 03:19:57,119
Speaker 2: tattoos period, right, Like anything is trindagua, right, yeah.

4032
03:19:57,080 --> 03:19:59,440
Speaker 4: Right, people who have like soccer tattoos, people who have

4033
03:20:00,040 --> 03:20:02,080
Speaker 4: of my mom and dad tattoos, It doesn't matter.

4034
03:20:02,240 --> 03:20:04,600
Speaker 2: There's an autism awareness tattoo.

4035
03:20:04,800 --> 03:20:08,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so some guy had an autism awareness Yeah, that

4036
03:20:08,160 --> 03:20:13,279
Speaker 1: one like haunts me because I have met young neurodivergent

4037
03:20:13,320 --> 03:20:15,120
Speaker 1: people and their families who are bringing them to the

4038
03:20:15,280 --> 03:20:17,920
Speaker 1: US to get what they thought was a better standard

4039
03:20:17,959 --> 03:20:20,680
Speaker 1: of care, right to allow their children to progress and

4040
03:20:21,720 --> 03:20:25,880
Speaker 1: have a beautiful life. Yeah, man, that one, like, like,

4041
03:20:25,959 --> 03:20:28,600
Speaker 1: I honestly really struggled with that. I have spent lots

4042
03:20:28,640 --> 03:20:31,400
Speaker 1: and lots and lots of time with Venezuelan migrants and

4043
03:20:31,560 --> 03:20:35,680
Speaker 1: like they're my friends. And that particular one, like people

4044
03:20:35,720 --> 03:20:41,039
Speaker 1: whose children have any need for medical care right are

4045
03:20:41,080 --> 03:20:43,920
Speaker 1: overrepresented the migrant population because they just can't access it

4046
03:20:44,000 --> 03:20:47,520
Speaker 1: there and so they upend their whole lives and carry

4047
03:20:47,560 --> 03:20:49,640
Speaker 1: their children across the continent to give them a chance

4048
03:20:49,920 --> 03:20:52,040
Speaker 1: had a better life And like that, that one is

4049
03:20:52,120 --> 03:20:55,640
Speaker 1: particularly hard for me to Winness, I did just want

4050
03:20:55,680 --> 03:20:59,240
Speaker 1: to mention on the topic of asylum. I've heard from

4051
03:20:59,320 --> 03:21:02,920
Speaker 1: so many migrants stuck in Mexico who are having a

4052
03:21:03,120 --> 03:21:08,760
Speaker 1: god awful time to include you know, robbery, kidnapping, sexual violence,

4053
03:21:10,000 --> 03:21:12,680
Speaker 1: all of the things that we know can happen to

4054
03:21:12,760 --> 03:21:15,480
Speaker 1: migrants on the migrant trail because they have no pathway

4055
03:21:15,520 --> 03:21:17,480
Speaker 1: to get to the US. They're now just stuck there

4056
03:21:17,640 --> 03:21:22,000
Speaker 1: right Mexico continues to take migrants and move them back

4057
03:21:22,120 --> 03:21:24,800
Speaker 1: south if it catches them near the United States border,

4058
03:21:25,240 --> 03:21:27,760
Speaker 1: even if some of them move up as far as

4059
03:21:27,840 --> 03:21:30,520
Speaker 1: Mexico City, right because they have access to services there,

4060
03:21:30,640 --> 03:21:35,440
Speaker 1: and then again sent back south to places where migrants

4061
03:21:35,480 --> 03:21:38,520
Speaker 1: have routinely been murdered. So I know, we're focusing a

4062
03:21:38,560 --> 03:21:41,240
Speaker 1: lot on migrants being kicked out of the US deported.

4063
03:21:41,400 --> 03:21:45,160
Speaker 1: Renditioned conditions for migrants who aspired to come to the

4064
03:21:45,280 --> 03:21:47,880
Speaker 1: United States who took great risks to be Americans and

4065
03:21:47,959 --> 03:21:50,160
Speaker 1: are stuck in Mexico are also dire.

4066
03:21:51,200 --> 03:21:53,600
Speaker 4: All right, Let's go and break and then come back

4067
03:21:53,720 --> 03:21:55,520
Speaker 4: for a few more updates before we close out.

4068
03:21:56,040 --> 03:22:10,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're back. And wait a second, is that is

4069
03:22:10,800 --> 03:22:12,520
Speaker 2: that the tariff song?

4070
03:22:14,040 --> 03:22:27,560
Speaker 12: Locking jas Rocking Jaspar Sorry, Locking, Locking jas Rocking Jazz Bob?

4071
03:22:28,920 --> 03:22:30,280
Speaker 2: All right, guys, I actually don't know. Do we have

4072
03:22:30,320 --> 03:22:31,560
Speaker 2: anything to say about tariffs this week?

4073
03:22:31,600 --> 03:22:31,760
Speaker 5: Yeah?

4074
03:22:31,760 --> 03:22:33,760
Speaker 3: We actually actually do us some on tariffs, So okay.

4075
03:22:33,600 --> 03:22:35,879
Speaker 2: All right, very good. I'm just we gotta get all

4076
03:22:35,920 --> 03:22:37,640
Speaker 2: of our use out of that song, because again, we

4077
03:22:37,760 --> 03:22:40,360
Speaker 2: really do. We really had to suspend the whole team's

4078
03:22:40,400 --> 03:22:43,520
Speaker 2: healthcare to pay for it. It was monstrously expensive.

4079
03:22:44,040 --> 03:22:45,480
Speaker 3: The full cut of that.

4080
03:22:45,680 --> 03:22:49,120
Speaker 2: Song is seventeen and a half hours. We actually brought

4081
03:22:49,280 --> 03:22:52,240
Speaker 2: in the remaining members of Fleetwood Mac as well as

4082
03:22:52,280 --> 03:22:53,400
Speaker 2: several Rolling Stones.

4083
03:22:53,560 --> 03:22:53,720
Speaker 9: It was.

4084
03:22:53,879 --> 03:22:55,400
Speaker 2: It just just disastrous.

4085
03:22:57,440 --> 03:23:00,560
Speaker 1: So far attempts to resurrect Joe Strama failed that we

4086
03:23:00,800 --> 03:23:01,720
Speaker 1: spent million.

4087
03:23:01,800 --> 03:23:05,320
Speaker 2: We only used the clip with our friend the Narcissist Cookbook.

4088
03:23:05,360 --> 03:23:08,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, there there is a twenty six minute drum

4089
03:23:08,879 --> 03:23:11,879
Speaker 2: solo with the guy from Rush Gedty Lee. He's still alive, right,

4090
03:23:12,040 --> 03:23:14,760
Speaker 2: was it, Getty Lee? Yeah, yeah, he's still alive. The

4091
03:23:14,879 --> 03:23:16,200
Speaker 2: joke works. The joke works.

4092
03:23:16,480 --> 03:23:17,680
Speaker 4: Not cheap, not cheap.

4093
03:23:18,520 --> 03:23:18,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

4094
03:23:18,760 --> 03:23:21,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's much like the dire Wolf thing. We've put

4095
03:23:21,680 --> 03:23:23,680
Speaker 1: Joe's drummer's DNA into another court.

4096
03:23:23,760 --> 03:23:25,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, and does he worried?

4097
03:23:25,600 --> 03:23:27,240
Speaker 1: We've released him into the wild and we're going to

4098
03:23:27,280 --> 03:23:28,000
Speaker 1: see how he developed.

4099
03:23:28,040 --> 03:23:30,199
Speaker 2: So far, he just has a lot of blood clots.

4100
03:23:30,280 --> 03:23:31,640
Speaker 3: But we have we're homefielder on.

4101
03:23:31,680 --> 03:23:33,200
Speaker 4: The case though. He's training him up.

4102
03:23:33,280 --> 03:23:35,840
Speaker 3: Well, we'll get him. We'll get him on here, all right.

4103
03:23:36,360 --> 03:23:38,039
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, parraffs good bad?

4104
03:23:38,160 --> 03:23:38,720
Speaker 1: What do you think?

4105
03:23:40,520 --> 03:23:43,400
Speaker 3: Okay, So all right, let's let let's let's let's actually

4106
03:23:43,400 --> 03:23:44,920
Speaker 3: do this shit. So is it One of the things

4107
03:23:44,959 --> 03:23:46,840
Speaker 3: that we've been talking about along on this show is

4108
03:23:46,920 --> 03:23:50,199
Speaker 3: the Deminimus exemption, which was this exemption that formerly allowed

4109
03:23:50,240 --> 03:23:54,080
Speaker 3: you was particularly used in trade with China, where you could,

4110
03:23:54,879 --> 03:23:57,400
Speaker 3: like if you were setting a package that was under

4111
03:23:57,440 --> 03:23:59,040
Speaker 3: like seven hundred dollars, you didn't have to like it

4112
03:23:59,080 --> 03:24:00,840
Speaker 3: didn't have to like go through in the way that

4113
03:24:00,879 --> 03:24:03,039
Speaker 3: you would normally would have to do it. That shit's gone.

4114
03:24:03,160 --> 03:24:06,640
Speaker 3: That ended on Friday of last week. This has already

4115
03:24:06,680 --> 03:24:09,640
Speaker 3: skyrocketed the cost of doing imports of shit from China

4116
03:24:09,720 --> 03:24:12,040
Speaker 3: because huge amounts of stuff being shipped from China was

4117
03:24:12,920 --> 03:24:15,440
Speaker 3: you know, like reliant on shipping it in packages that

4118
03:24:15,520 --> 03:24:19,440
Speaker 3: were exactly six hundred and ninety nine dollars, and you know,

4119
03:24:19,560 --> 03:24:22,560
Speaker 3: this has like like Temu's entire business model has changed

4120
03:24:22,640 --> 03:24:24,760
Speaker 3: basically over night, where like they're no longer shipping stuff

4121
03:24:24,760 --> 03:24:28,599
Speaker 3: in from China, They're only selling stuff from like American distributors.

4122
03:24:29,440 --> 03:24:32,800
Speaker 3: This is going to have catastrophic effects on so many

4123
03:24:32,840 --> 03:24:35,000
Speaker 3: supply chains you've never even thought of in the weeks

4124
03:24:35,040 --> 03:24:37,040
Speaker 3: to come, because again, there are so many different like

4125
03:24:37,920 --> 03:24:42,080
Speaker 3: tiny screws and shit, like just like really really small

4126
03:24:42,160 --> 03:24:43,720
Speaker 3: items that you used to be able to get from

4127
03:24:43,800 --> 03:24:47,120
Speaker 3: China for like fucking five dollars for like one hundred

4128
03:24:47,120 --> 03:24:51,960
Speaker 3: of them that now have like unbelievable tariff rates on

4129
03:24:52,000 --> 03:24:53,959
Speaker 3: them and have to go through a really, really convoluted

4130
03:24:53,959 --> 03:24:57,000
Speaker 3: customs process. There have already been sort of massive supply

4131
03:24:57,080 --> 03:24:59,160
Speaker 3: chain disruptions in a large number of industries. It's going

4132
03:24:59,200 --> 03:25:02,320
Speaker 3: to continue to get where Sophie was talking about metal

4133
03:25:02,320 --> 03:25:04,840
Speaker 3: imports hitting the construction industry, because there's you know, there's

4134
03:25:04,879 --> 03:25:06,640
Speaker 3: terraffs on a bunch of different kinds of metal, as

4135
03:25:06,680 --> 03:25:08,400
Speaker 3: we've covered on the show, aluminum.

4136
03:25:08,520 --> 03:25:10,360
Speaker 2: God knows what's gonna happen to diet coke.

4137
03:25:11,000 --> 03:25:13,080
Speaker 3: We'll put it in lead like God intended.

4138
03:25:13,240 --> 03:25:16,520
Speaker 4: Maybe that'll finally change Trump's outlook is when his diet

4139
03:25:16,640 --> 03:25:17,320
Speaker 4: coat stop.

4140
03:25:19,200 --> 03:25:19,360
Speaker 6: Yeah.

4141
03:25:19,440 --> 03:25:21,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Trump and Musk both become inoperable.

4142
03:25:21,800 --> 03:25:24,720
Speaker 2: But you know, Garrison, we will know when that's hit

4143
03:25:24,800 --> 03:25:27,640
Speaker 2: when the missiles are in the air, like oh shitty

4144
03:25:27,760 --> 03:25:28,320
Speaker 2: ran out.

4145
03:25:29,120 --> 03:25:32,600
Speaker 4: Federal occupation of the Coca Cola headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia.

4146
03:25:32,840 --> 03:25:37,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, and this is also like this,

4147
03:25:37,240 --> 03:25:40,840
Speaker 3: this is going to have a profound impact on Chinese economy. Again,

4148
03:25:40,879 --> 03:25:43,280
Speaker 3: we're still in sort of the waiting room until sort

4149
03:25:43,280 --> 03:25:45,640
Speaker 3: of Midsummer when all of the rest of the tariffs

4150
03:25:45,640 --> 03:25:47,080
Speaker 3: that were supposed to go into effect go back into

4151
03:25:47,080 --> 03:25:48,879
Speaker 3: effect and literally everything collapses.

4152
03:25:49,440 --> 03:25:52,120
Speaker 2: You're probably three to five weeks out from really starting

4153
03:25:52,160 --> 03:25:54,240
Speaker 2: to see it hit hard in like the stuff you

4154
03:25:54,360 --> 03:25:56,400
Speaker 2: buy on a day to day basis. Right, People who

4155
03:25:56,440 --> 03:25:59,280
Speaker 2: are doing stuff like remodeling houses or building houses are

4156
03:25:59,280 --> 03:25:59,959
Speaker 2: starting to notice.

4157
03:26:00,120 --> 03:26:00,280
Speaker 6: Now.

4158
03:26:00,800 --> 03:26:04,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think people car prepare businesses and one of

4159
03:26:04,520 --> 03:26:06,600
Speaker 2: people have to order parts. That is starting to hit.

4160
03:26:07,200 --> 03:26:09,879
Speaker 2: But your grocery store, that's really going to be most

4161
03:26:09,959 --> 03:26:12,520
Speaker 2: noticeable somewhere between three and five weeks from now. Maybe yeah,

4162
03:26:12,560 --> 03:26:14,640
Speaker 2: maybe sooner, probably not much longer.

4163
03:26:15,080 --> 03:26:16,840
Speaker 3: Well, and and other things are about to get sniffy

4164
03:26:16,879 --> 03:26:18,800
Speaker 3: and the worse. So this has been talked about for

4165
03:26:18,840 --> 03:26:20,640
Speaker 3: a long time. The buzz right now is that they're

4166
03:26:20,640 --> 03:26:23,040
Speaker 3: happening soon. I don't know exactly what that means, but

4167
03:26:24,120 --> 03:26:25,840
Speaker 3: there has been for a long long time. Trump has

4168
03:26:25,879 --> 03:26:30,240
Speaker 3: been talking about doing tariffs on pharma, so congratulations, get

4169
03:26:30,280 --> 03:26:33,000
Speaker 3: excited for all of your medication costing a lot more money.

4170
03:26:33,840 --> 03:26:36,600
Speaker 3: He also put into place of one hundred percent terrafund

4171
03:26:37,080 --> 03:26:37,959
Speaker 3: foreign movies.

4172
03:26:38,240 --> 03:26:41,480
Speaker 2: Well, we'll see, yes, yeah, But then he walked that back,

4173
03:26:41,520 --> 03:26:44,600
Speaker 2: he had a conversation with John Voight and announced, Yeah,

4174
03:26:44,640 --> 03:26:48,520
Speaker 2: they're getting to that hundred percent tariff on all movies.

4175
03:26:49,200 --> 03:26:51,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, not made in the US. No one knows what

4176
03:26:52,040 --> 03:26:53,600
Speaker 3: that means. How can you do that?

4177
03:26:53,879 --> 03:26:56,240
Speaker 2: What taraffun a movie? What are we talking about?

4178
03:26:56,720 --> 03:26:59,400
Speaker 3: It's literally it's literally just like like he's doing tariffs

4179
03:26:59,400 --> 03:27:00,560
Speaker 3: in the way that like the is that but the

4180
03:27:00,640 --> 03:27:02,400
Speaker 3: guy for the Wolf of Wall Street is like what

4181
03:27:02,560 --> 03:27:04,360
Speaker 3: guy walks out of the room and goes short. Everything

4182
03:27:04,440 --> 03:27:06,800
Speaker 3: is ever touched like it's like that thing. Yeah, like

4183
03:27:06,879 --> 03:27:10,360
Speaker 3: he's gonna be terriffing like fucking ocean currents in two months.

4184
03:27:10,879 --> 03:27:13,920
Speaker 2: The responses to it have been have been so funny

4185
03:27:13,920 --> 03:27:17,000
Speaker 2: because Gavin Newsome, arch dipshit of the Democratic Party, was

4186
03:27:17,040 --> 03:27:20,080
Speaker 2: immediately like, we love the idea of working with our

4187
03:27:20,160 --> 03:27:23,120
Speaker 2: president to keep the film jobs in California.

4188
03:27:23,320 --> 03:27:23,480
Speaker 10: You know.

4189
03:27:24,080 --> 03:27:27,000
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Trump immediately was like, well, maybe we won't do that.

4190
03:27:27,240 --> 03:27:30,480
Speaker 2: I think because they're still at the very head of

4191
03:27:30,560 --> 03:27:34,680
Speaker 2: the studio system. Some scary old mob type dudes, right,

4192
03:27:34,800 --> 03:27:37,240
Speaker 2: and I think a few of them also Tom Cruise

4193
03:27:37,360 --> 03:27:41,080
Speaker 2: is terraf Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise like sat down, listen, Donald,

4194
03:27:44,200 --> 03:27:46,840
Speaker 2: you know, no one's heard from David Mskovich's wife in

4195
03:27:46,920 --> 03:27:48,760
Speaker 2: a long ass time, and they don't have to hear

4196
03:27:48,840 --> 03:27:51,040
Speaker 2: from you either, Like you don't want to fuck with me?

4197
03:27:52,080 --> 03:27:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, Trump believes he actually is the mission impossible guy.

4198
03:27:56,600 --> 03:28:00,200
Speaker 3: And you could given some you could give he he

4199
03:28:00,320 --> 03:28:04,880
Speaker 3: convinced him. Yeah, someone convinced him. To Nero's is, like,

4200
03:28:04,959 --> 03:28:08,720
Speaker 3: didn't he reopen Alcatraz? Off to the Alcatraz film? Add

4201
03:28:08,840 --> 03:28:09,039
Speaker 3: on the.

4202
03:28:10,959 --> 03:28:13,240
Speaker 2: Yes, but it was the it was the Clint Eastwood one,

4203
03:28:13,320 --> 03:28:16,880
Speaker 2: and not the much better Alcatraz film The Rock starring

4204
03:28:17,160 --> 03:28:22,000
Speaker 2: Sean Connery and Nicholas Cage a banger ages perfectly watch it.

4205
03:28:22,160 --> 03:28:25,039
Speaker 2: Everyone watch it tonight. Fu reading any more news?

4206
03:28:25,879 --> 03:28:28,640
Speaker 3: Okay, there's more news though unfortunately Yeah, well okay, there

4207
03:28:28,680 --> 03:28:30,440
Speaker 3: there's one funny thing, and there's a like the actual

4208
03:28:30,480 --> 03:28:31,960
Speaker 3: news here is part of what's going on here is

4209
03:28:32,000 --> 03:28:34,840
Speaker 3: just everything is just chaos. And this is something that like,

4210
03:28:35,040 --> 03:28:36,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I've had this conversation with a bunch of

4211
03:28:36,640 --> 03:28:38,720
Speaker 3: people who work in shipping of the last couple of weeks.

4212
03:28:38,840 --> 03:28:41,840
Speaker 3: Is that like it's just chaos, right, Like everything is

4213
03:28:41,959 --> 03:28:44,039
Speaker 3: changing all the fucking time, and this means every time

4214
03:28:44,080 --> 03:28:45,680
Speaker 3: one of these things changes, a bunch of like the

4215
03:28:45,720 --> 03:28:48,480
Speaker 3: import codes and like stuff just changes on the level

4216
03:28:48,640 --> 03:28:52,560
Speaker 3: of like the customs people, and like just like like

4217
03:28:52,720 --> 03:28:55,120
Speaker 3: literally the process of importing this stuff changes, and it's

4218
03:28:55,240 --> 03:28:58,240
Speaker 3: just a complete fucking disaster. People are getting laid off

4219
03:28:58,360 --> 03:29:00,920
Speaker 3: constantly too, so like every single part of the government

4220
03:29:00,920 --> 03:29:02,720
Speaker 3: that's supposed to be doing this suddenly has less people.

4221
03:29:03,360 --> 03:29:05,680
Speaker 3: It's an absolute rolling detachment for you will continue to

4222
03:29:05,720 --> 03:29:08,520
Speaker 3: get worse. There's also good evidents that like they know

4223
03:29:08,680 --> 03:29:10,440
Speaker 3: that it's gonna get worse. I'm gonna read this quote

4224
03:29:10,480 --> 03:29:13,640
Speaker 3: from USA today, Well, this is from Trump. I don't

4225
03:29:13,680 --> 03:29:16,040
Speaker 3: think a beautiful baby that's eleven years old needs to

4226
03:29:16,080 --> 03:29:19,560
Speaker 3: have thirty dollars, Trump told Meet the Press House Kirsten Welker.

4227
03:29:19,760 --> 03:29:21,520
Speaker 3: I think they can have three or four dolls because

4228
03:29:21,520 --> 03:29:23,800
Speaker 3: what we're doing with China is just unbelievable. We have

4229
03:29:23,879 --> 03:29:26,280
Speaker 3: a trade deficit of hundreds of billions of dollars for China.

4230
03:29:26,920 --> 03:29:28,879
Speaker 3: I'm just saying they don't need to have thirty dollars.

4231
03:29:28,920 --> 03:29:30,560
Speaker 3: They can have belief. They don't need to have one

4232
03:29:30,640 --> 03:29:34,000
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty pencils. They can have five five pencils.

4233
03:29:34,040 --> 03:29:38,200
Speaker 4: Everyone five pencils and three dollars. This Christmas. Imagine if

4234
03:29:38,240 --> 03:29:40,040
Speaker 4: Joe Biden annow, it's like, all right, we're gonna have

4235
03:29:40,080 --> 03:29:41,520
Speaker 4: to cut down on Christmas gifts this year.

4236
03:29:41,600 --> 03:29:42,200
Speaker 3: We can't do it.

4237
03:29:43,800 --> 03:29:46,720
Speaker 4: The Fox News would be like freaking the fuck out.

4238
03:29:46,879 --> 03:29:50,720
Speaker 4: We're like, Joe Biden's taking away your kid's Christmas and

4239
03:29:50,959 --> 03:29:53,480
Speaker 4: the pencils and yeah, who cares?

4240
03:29:54,400 --> 03:29:56,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, But I mean, like like the actual song thing

4241
03:29:56,200 --> 03:29:58,200
Speaker 3: here is like yeah, no, like these people understand that

4242
03:29:58,280 --> 03:29:59,880
Speaker 3: you're going to suffer. They don't give a shit.

4243
03:30:00,240 --> 03:30:04,760
Speaker 4: I want you to suffer their political project. Yeah, so

4244
03:30:05,120 --> 03:30:08,680
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, owning the Libs anyway? Is that all

4245
03:30:08,720 --> 03:30:09,600
Speaker 4: for tariff Talkbia?

4246
03:30:10,280 --> 03:30:12,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all we got on. That's how we got

4247
03:30:12,959 --> 03:30:13,520
Speaker 3: on the tariffs.

4248
03:30:13,959 --> 03:30:16,720
Speaker 4: I am excited for for Trump to meet Ethan Hunt

4249
03:30:16,840 --> 03:30:19,440
Speaker 4: on his last mission, So there's still hope.

4250
03:30:19,680 --> 03:30:20,000
Speaker 2: All right.

4251
03:30:20,360 --> 03:30:22,360
Speaker 4: I have a few more updates before we close out here.

4252
03:30:23,000 --> 03:30:27,120
Speaker 4: One on the federal judge back and forth of last week.

4253
03:30:27,240 --> 03:30:30,560
Speaker 4: US District judge blocked the Trump Admin's efforts via executive

4254
03:30:30,640 --> 03:30:33,680
Speaker 4: order to require what they deem as proof of citizenship

4255
03:30:33,760 --> 03:30:36,320
Speaker 4: to register to vote. The judge stated that this case

4256
03:30:36,400 --> 03:30:39,560
Speaker 4: was about separation of powers and undue presidential interference in

4257
03:30:39,640 --> 03:30:43,640
Speaker 4: how states in Congress run and regulate elections, writing quote,

4258
03:30:43,800 --> 03:30:47,400
Speaker 4: our Constitution entrusts Congress and the States, not the President,

4259
03:30:47,520 --> 03:30:50,760
Speaker 4: with the authority to regulate federal elections. No statutory delegation

4260
03:30:50,920 --> 03:30:53,280
Speaker 4: of authority to the executive branch permits the president to

4261
03:30:53,280 --> 03:30:57,920
Speaker 4: short circuit Congress's deliberative process by executive order. Yeah, so

4262
03:30:58,080 --> 03:31:01,000
Speaker 4: we'll see how that develops. Foreign now, I'll also be

4263
03:31:01,080 --> 03:31:03,640
Speaker 4: doing an uphit on the Save Act as it makes

4264
03:31:03,640 --> 03:31:06,520
Speaker 4: its way through Congress as well, for those interested another

4265
03:31:06,720 --> 03:31:08,080
Speaker 4: kind of voting suppression bill.

4266
03:31:08,360 --> 03:31:09,279
Speaker 1: It's getting a push.

4267
03:31:09,160 --> 03:31:14,000
Speaker 4: Through this Tuesday, the Supreme Court upheld the trans military ban,

4268
03:31:14,120 --> 03:31:17,600
Speaker 4: at least for now. It'll still process through appeals, but

4269
03:31:17,680 --> 03:31:20,240
Speaker 4: the Trump administration is now allowed to enforce the ban,

4270
03:31:20,400 --> 03:31:23,440
Speaker 4: which they previously couldn't because a lower court put the

4271
03:31:23,680 --> 03:31:24,879
Speaker 4: enforcement on hold.

4272
03:31:25,640 --> 03:31:25,840
Speaker 6: Yeah.

4273
03:31:25,879 --> 03:31:28,480
Speaker 3: So, I think the actual scariest part about that is

4274
03:31:28,520 --> 03:31:30,920
Speaker 3: if you read the if you read the language of

4275
03:31:31,160 --> 03:31:33,200
Speaker 3: what the court was talking about, they've been describing it

4276
03:31:33,280 --> 03:31:36,160
Speaker 3: as like someone who thinks that like they are a

4277
03:31:36,200 --> 03:31:38,440
Speaker 3: woman when they're actually a man. Like isn't someone who

4278
03:31:38,440 --> 03:31:40,880
Speaker 3: can perform at like the standards of like honor and

4279
03:31:41,000 --> 03:31:43,280
Speaker 3: whatever that like a soldier needs and This is I

4280
03:31:43,320 --> 03:31:45,560
Speaker 3: think a ramp up to the really really dangerous thing

4281
03:31:45,600 --> 03:31:47,400
Speaker 3: that is coming, which is their attempt to just straight

4282
03:31:47,480 --> 03:31:49,040
Speaker 3: up brand being trans as fraud.

4283
03:31:49,480 --> 03:31:52,080
Speaker 4: I mean, this is this is the Trump Admin's argument, correct,

4284
03:31:52,200 --> 03:31:53,199
Speaker 4: this is what they were writing.

4285
03:31:53,520 --> 03:31:55,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this is the statement.

4286
03:31:55,520 --> 03:31:58,720
Speaker 1: I guess that the DoD is claiming that expressing a

4287
03:31:58,800 --> 03:32:02,320
Speaker 1: quote false gender idea entity divergent from an individual sex

4288
03:32:02,440 --> 03:32:06,200
Speaker 1: can't satisfy the rigorous standards necessarily for military service. And

4289
03:32:06,320 --> 03:32:09,760
Speaker 1: they specifically talk about a soldier's commitment to an honorable, truthful,

4290
03:32:09,840 --> 03:32:14,080
Speaker 1: and disciplined lifestyle, even in one's personal life, and they

4291
03:32:14,200 --> 03:32:19,680
Speaker 1: then go ahead to claim that being trans inherently contradicts that.

4292
03:32:20,280 --> 03:32:23,640
Speaker 4: That's the Trump admins argument, which is going to be

4293
03:32:23,959 --> 03:32:27,240
Speaker 4: like used to undermine transmitter rights in the future, possibly

4294
03:32:27,280 --> 03:32:28,200
Speaker 4: threatening Title nine.

4295
03:32:28,440 --> 03:32:28,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

4296
03:32:29,560 --> 03:32:30,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very concerning.

4297
03:32:31,680 --> 03:32:34,960
Speaker 4: So the fact that they were able to, like at

4298
03:32:35,040 --> 03:32:37,000
Speaker 4: least at this point when this case in the Streame

4299
03:32:37,040 --> 03:32:38,520
Speaker 4: Court extremely worrying.

4300
03:32:39,400 --> 03:32:39,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

4301
03:32:40,680 --> 03:32:43,360
Speaker 1: I will just say that if this impacts you someone

4302
03:32:43,440 --> 03:32:46,600
Speaker 1: you care about, so when you know you can reach

4303
03:32:46,680 --> 03:32:49,320
Speaker 1: out to us. Obviously there's a very little we can

4304
03:32:49,360 --> 03:32:52,600
Speaker 1: do about it, but we are here to listen to

4305
03:32:52,800 --> 03:32:56,080
Speaker 1: report the News and you can do that at cool Zone,

4306
03:32:56,320 --> 03:33:01,760
Speaker 1: tips at proton dot me tonly an encrypted email and

4307
03:33:01,879 --> 03:33:04,280
Speaker 1: to end if it comes from an encrypted email address

4308
03:33:04,360 --> 03:33:06,400
Speaker 1: to a encrypted email address.

4309
03:33:06,800 --> 03:33:09,400
Speaker 4: We are reading all of those. We may not respond

4310
03:33:09,440 --> 03:33:11,039
Speaker 4: to all of them, but we are taking note of them,

4311
03:33:11,640 --> 03:33:15,280
Speaker 4: and we'll report on stuff in the future. The last

4312
03:33:15,320 --> 03:33:18,680
Speaker 4: thing I do want to add is like a raid

4313
03:33:18,800 --> 03:33:23,760
Speaker 4: that happened last week in California. Homeland Security Investigations ICE

4314
03:33:23,879 --> 03:33:26,560
Speaker 4: and Secret Service right to the house in southern California

4315
03:33:26,800 --> 03:33:30,000
Speaker 4: looking for a man who months ago posted flyers around

4316
03:33:30,040 --> 03:33:34,360
Speaker 4: Los Angeles last January warning about ICE agents in the

4317
03:33:34,480 --> 03:33:38,560
Speaker 4: area with names, photos, and phone numbers reading in Spanish

4318
03:33:38,680 --> 03:33:43,600
Speaker 4: quote careful with these faces. The FEDS served a criminal

4319
03:33:43,680 --> 03:33:46,640
Speaker 4: search warrant on the home of this guy's parents, even

4320
03:33:46,640 --> 03:33:50,000
Speaker 4: though he moved to New York last March. At least

4321
03:33:50,120 --> 03:33:53,640
Speaker 4: fifteen armored vehicles pulled up to this upscale neighborhood with

4322
03:33:53,800 --> 03:33:58,800
Speaker 4: full militarized federal swat. They seized routers and hard drives.

4323
03:33:59,080 --> 03:33:59,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good.

4324
03:34:00,879 --> 03:34:02,560
Speaker 4: Acting ICE director Todd Loins was on the scene for

4325
03:34:02,640 --> 03:34:04,840
Speaker 4: this operation. He told Fox News that he took it

4326
03:34:04,959 --> 03:34:07,879
Speaker 4: personally that someone would put a target on his agents

4327
03:34:07,879 --> 03:34:09,760
Speaker 4: in an effort to interfere with them and put them

4328
03:34:09,800 --> 03:34:13,960
Speaker 4: at risk, saying the person will be held accountable. What

4329
03:34:14,040 --> 03:34:17,359
Speaker 4: they're using here is probably likely US Code one nineteen

4330
03:34:17,560 --> 03:34:22,599
Speaker 4: Protection of Individuals performing certain duties. Whoever knowingly makes restricted

4331
03:34:22,680 --> 03:34:26,000
Speaker 4: personal information about a covered person or a member of

4332
03:34:26,080 --> 03:34:28,760
Speaker 4: the immediate family of that covered person publicly available with

4333
03:34:28,800 --> 03:34:31,200
Speaker 4: the intent to threaten and intimidate or incite the commission

4334
03:34:31,280 --> 03:34:33,920
Speaker 4: of a crime of violence against that covered person or

4335
03:34:34,080 --> 03:34:37,840
Speaker 4: a member of the immediate family. So this is likely

4336
03:34:37,920 --> 03:34:41,440
Speaker 4: what they're using, arguing that posting a photo on a

4337
03:34:41,480 --> 03:34:45,600
Speaker 4: flyer with the person's name and phone number is enough

4338
03:34:45,680 --> 03:34:48,600
Speaker 4: to threaten, intimidate, or facilitate the commission of a crime.

4339
03:34:49,360 --> 03:34:51,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, what constitutes covered persons?

4340
03:34:51,440 --> 03:34:53,720
Speaker 4: And it is that's a good question, James.

4341
03:34:54,640 --> 03:34:56,320
Speaker 3: That's a screenshot, right, so you can't click that.

4342
03:34:56,600 --> 03:34:59,840
Speaker 4: That is a screenshot and probably a question for a lawyer.

4343
03:35:00,520 --> 03:35:03,039
Speaker 4: But they are they are arguing that that the ICE

4344
03:35:03,080 --> 03:35:05,279
Speaker 4: agents like fall under this purview.

4345
03:35:05,680 --> 03:35:10,199
Speaker 1: Yes, the term covered person means a an individual designated

4346
03:35:10,200 --> 03:35:13,560
Speaker 1: to Session one fourteen B, a grand dura, petty jura witness,

4347
03:35:13,680 --> 03:35:17,120
Speaker 1: or rather officer of the court, an informal witness in

4348
03:35:17,160 --> 03:35:21,040
Speaker 1: a federal criminal investigation or prosecution, state or local officer

4349
03:35:21,240 --> 03:35:24,879
Speaker 1: or employee whose restricted personal information is made publicly available

4350
03:35:24,920 --> 03:35:27,360
Speaker 1: because of the participation in or assistant provided to a

4351
03:35:27,440 --> 03:35:30,120
Speaker 1: federal criminal investigation. So it's part C.

4352
03:35:30,560 --> 03:35:33,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's that's what they're going to argue. The

4353
03:35:33,560 --> 03:35:36,200
Speaker 4: people's addresses weren't posted here, it was just their names

4354
03:35:36,240 --> 03:35:39,600
Speaker 4: and photos. But ICE and HSI are being very protective

4355
03:35:40,120 --> 03:35:43,360
Speaker 4: of the faces of the agents doing immigration raids and

4356
03:35:43,400 --> 03:35:47,360
Speaker 4: student crackdowns right now. They're they're really nervous about about

4357
03:35:47,640 --> 03:35:51,080
Speaker 4: agents possibly being targeted, so any attempt to identify these

4358
03:35:51,200 --> 03:35:53,959
Speaker 4: is being treated as like a threat. A Homeland Security

4359
03:35:54,000 --> 03:35:58,040
Speaker 4: spokesperson told Fox News quote, these pathetic activists are putting

4360
03:35:58,120 --> 03:36:00,320
Speaker 4: targets on the backs of our law enforcement as they

4361
03:36:00,360 --> 03:36:04,160
Speaker 4: shield Ms thirteen, Trendilagua and other vicious gangs at traffic,

4362
03:36:04,200 --> 03:36:06,760
Speaker 4: women and children, kidnapped for ransom, and poison Americans with

4363
03:36:06,879 --> 03:36:10,600
Speaker 4: lethal drugs. These individuals will be held accountable for obstructing

4364
03:36:10,680 --> 03:36:13,960
Speaker 4: the law and justice. This shouldn't be controversial.

4365
03:36:15,680 --> 03:36:15,880
Speaker 6: Yeah.

4366
03:36:17,600 --> 03:36:23,000
Speaker 1: So five people died after a panga carrying migrants capsized

4367
03:36:23,040 --> 03:36:25,520
Speaker 1: off Del Mar, which is in North County San Diego.

4368
03:36:26,280 --> 03:36:29,840
Speaker 1: The search is on going. I believe another five are

4369
03:36:29,879 --> 03:36:32,480
Speaker 1: still missing. One of those is a ten year old

4370
03:36:32,920 --> 03:36:37,280
Speaker 1: girl from India, and Christie Nohan has said she wants

4371
03:36:37,320 --> 03:36:42,200
Speaker 1: the DOJ to pursue death penalty charges against the smugglers

4372
03:36:42,200 --> 03:36:45,520
Speaker 1: who brought these people over. These boats have been a

4373
03:36:45,640 --> 03:36:48,840
Speaker 1: thing for a while, but this is not the first

4374
03:36:48,879 --> 03:36:52,280
Speaker 1: of these tragedies. And it's obviously like we shouldn't lose

4375
03:36:52,760 --> 03:36:56,080
Speaker 1: focus of the fact that someone's little child died, which

4376
03:36:56,160 --> 03:36:56,720
Speaker 1: is horrific.

4377
03:36:57,160 --> 03:37:01,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, tough news week as usual.

4378
03:37:01,959 --> 03:37:03,640
Speaker 2: I guess tough news week.

4379
03:37:04,520 --> 03:37:06,400
Speaker 3: The only way to feel better is by fighting.

4380
03:37:07,560 --> 03:37:09,640
Speaker 4: But we did report the news.

4381
03:37:10,000 --> 03:37:18,119
Speaker 2: We did, We reported the news. Hey, we'll be back

4382
03:37:18,200 --> 03:37:21,320
Speaker 2: Monday with more episodes every week from now until the

4383
03:37:21,400 --> 03:37:22,440
Speaker 2: heat death of the Universe.

4384
03:37:23,200 --> 03:37:25,680
Speaker 13: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

4385
03:37:25,879 --> 03:37:28,920
Speaker 13: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

4386
03:37:29,000 --> 03:37:32,560
Speaker 13: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

4387
03:37:32,680 --> 03:37:36,200
Speaker 13: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

4388
03:37:36,280 --> 03:37:38,560
Speaker 13: now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly

4389
03:37:38,640 --> 03:37:40,880
Speaker 13: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.