WEBVTT - #210 Jason Flom with Richard Glossip 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:04.880 Richard Glossop was the manager of a CD motel in 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:07.560 Oklahoma City called the Best Budget in where he was 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:10.799 responsible for large sums of cash belonging to its owner, 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.240 Barry Van Trees, cash that he could have stolen at 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:18.319 any time without violence. A traveling roofer and methadic named 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.279 Justin Snead began staying at the motel in exchange for 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.479 maintenance work, while enjoying easy access to the drugs and 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.080 prostitutes one might find at a CD motel. In the 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:32.120 early morning of January seventh, nineteen ninety seven, Stead and 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.880 a girlfriend lured Barry van Trees into Room one O 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.360 two to rob him of the cash he was known 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:41.440 to carry. Barry resisted and was bludgeoned and stabbed to death. 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:46.000 His car was moved to a nearby lot. Later that morning, 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.680 Snead off handedly told Richard that he had killed Barry, 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.320 but after seeing that Barry's car was not at its 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:56.040 usual spot, Richard dismissed what he thought was Sneed's usual 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.600 drug adult ramblings. When the body was discovered, Richard told 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.720 police about what Snead had said, causing them to focus 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:07.400 on him, even though Snead eventually confessed police steered him 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.640 to implicate Richard as the mastermind of a murder for 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:15.160 higher scheme. For his testimony, Snead escaped to death penalty 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.959 in exchange for life without parole, swapping Richard into his place. 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:22.679 The word of a meth head and a legit motive 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.000 to steal cash was all. 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:24.440 It took. 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:28.920 Twenty four years, two trials, three stays of execution, a 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.520 lethal injection drug scandal, and two Supreme Court cases later, 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:37.360 Richard remains on death row in Oklahoma. This is wrongful 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:55.040 Conviction with Jason Flapp. Welcome back to wrongful conviction with 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.280 Jason flamm That's me And if I sound a little 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.440 down today, it's because this case that you're going to 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.080 hear about is one of the most troubling cases I've 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.760 ever heard of in my now twenty ninth year of 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:13.480 doing this type of work. With us today we have 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:19.519 one of the respected, even revered criminal and civil defense attorneys, 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.560 a man named Don Knight. Welcome to ronfel conviction. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:23.480 Thank you, Jason. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.240 I appreciate that, and of course with us today, calling 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:32.280 in from the Oklahoma State Penitentiary where he is now 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:36.680 in his twenty third year on death row, and that is, 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.000 of course Richard Glossip. 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:43.639 Hello, this is a collect call from for Sure, an 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:48.360 incarcerated individual at Oklahoma State Penitentiary. This call is not private. 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.280 This call will be recorded and may be monitored. 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.119 To consent to this recorded call, press one to disconnect. 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.000 Thank you for using securists. 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:58.920 You may start the conversation now. 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.280 Richard. I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances, but I'm 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:03.960 happier here. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.000 Oh that's cool, man, that's cool. Twenty four years of 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.639 this and it's bed a long battle and it just continues. 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:12.480 But the good thing is I'm still here. 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.200 Richard, if you don't mind take us back to your childhood. 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.720 You said, sort of an unusual childhood and moved from 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.520 Illinois to Oklahoma. But also you were one of a 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:23.760 lot of children, right, You had a lot of brothers 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:24.359 and sisters. 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.639 Yeah. And I actually grew up in Geilsburg, Illinois. There 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.680 was sixteen of us. It was eight boys and eight girls. 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.040 You know, I grew up around a lot of addiction 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:34.840 and stuff like that, and you know, I just didn't 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.480 think I was going to get anywhere if I stayed 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:38.320 there any longer. And I left home when I was 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:40.600 fourteen and just made it on my own. 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.800 You know, it's actually kind of a miracle that you survived. 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.520 I mean, we could do a whole podcast about that alone, 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.720 but your story hadn't even begun yet. So okay, you 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.720 were strange from your family for many years, working and 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.320 getting by. But how'd you end up in Oklahoma where 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:00.800 you got a job at the best budget in working 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:01.720 for Barry Van Trees. 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:06.440 My mom and dad retired and they decided to move 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:09.360 out here to Oklahoma to be closer to my mom's family. 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.560 And in nineteen ninety three, my dad's health was selling 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:14.520 and my mom asked me if I would come out 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.720 here and spend some time with my dad. And that's 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.000 how I ended up with the best budget in. 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.520 Barry Van Trees didn't just run the best budget in 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.960 Oklahoma City, he also ran best budget in in Tulsa. 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:32.159 These were really low rent motels. They were a cash business. 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.640 There was a lot of drug activity and prostitution. Barry 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.480 Van Trees would come by every couple of weeks to 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:40.960 the Oklahoma City best budget in where he would pick 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:44.279 up the cash from Rich. Rich would have sometimes up 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:48.039 to thirty thousand dollars in receipts depending on how long 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.719 it took for Van Trees to come by the motel. 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:55.760 So Rich was constantly handling large amounts of money, and 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.240 there was never any question about whether Rich was stealing money. 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:00.880 He was not stealing anything at all. 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.240 Right, And if he wanted to steal the money, he 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.760 could have done so almost any time without violence, and 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.240 he could have skipped town. But he never did, and 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.039 certainly he didn't do so by involving a meth head 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.240 named Justin Snead. Now Justin had come through town with 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.240 a roof and crew out of Texas, and while he 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:17.960 was staying at the best budget in and he worked 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:19.960 out a deal for a free room in exchange for 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.120 maintenance and other work around the motel. 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.400 Right, yes, I said, hey, I need you to go 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.240 take care of this, or I need to take these 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.359 people from files or whatever the case may be. He 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.279 always did it. But as time went by, it was 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:33.640 getting harder to find him, and I was going to 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:35.760 let him go a couple of times, but you know, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.320 very like the fact that he was working Beru, but 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.280 Verry didn't want me to let him go. But yeah, 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.440 towards all this happening in the end, It was like 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.159 I hardly ever found him to do what he was 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:46.840 supposed to do. 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.120 Did you catch any signs that he was using meth? 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.720 Well, they were up all the time, So I did 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.200 have a couple of family members that did it, and 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.280 so learning from how they acted, you know, I could 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.840 tell that, yeah, definitely they want something. Justin was a 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.200 very odd guy. He would say things that would throw 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.000 you off. He would say things that would just make 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:10.840 you sketch your head and go, man, this guy is 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:11.760 just like really weird. 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.200 So were there any signs that he might have been 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:15.799 robbing people to support his habit? 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.640 Yeah? You know. I had one of the a guy 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.919 named John Biebers, king to me and that he was 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.480 missing a big jar of coins. When he said he 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:27.080 thought Justin did it, I didn't believe him. But hindsight 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:27.839 is twenty. 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.520 Twenty, right, Yeah, it sure is. And at the time, 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.000 you and your girlfriend Deanna Wood were spending a lot 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:35.240 of time together and most of it at the motel. 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.479 Yeah. I lived on the property. I lived behind the 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.359 front desk in an apartment, so I'm always on the 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.479 property other than DNA, and I'd being able to go 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.360 out and do something on our own why the desk 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:46.159 Cirk was there. 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.520 Now, this brings us all the way up to January seventh, 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.320 thineteen ninety seven. At six am, Justin Snead woke Rich 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.040 up and told him about a broken window and then 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:58.240 kind of off handily says, oh, and by the way, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:02.160 I killed Barry. Snead was known for saying weird stuff 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.039 like that, and so when Richard looked at Barry's usual 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.960 parking spot and didn't see Barry's car, he wrote it 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.280 off as Sneed just being Snead. Now, later on, Barry 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.320 Van Teresa's car was spotted in the Credit Union parking lot, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.960 about fifty yards away from the best budget in but 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.760 there was no sign of Barry. So this kicked off 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.680 a search, and rich was out shopping with his girlfriend 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.239 Deiana and was called back to work around three pm. 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.360 So at this point rich is wondering do I tell 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:32.200 the police about what Sneed said? But he Indiana decided 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:34.440 against it because they didn't even know if Barry was 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:38.080 dead or not. And finally at ten pm, Barry's body 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.080 was discovered in Room one oh two. He had been 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.760 beaten with a baseball bat as well as having been 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:46.560 stabbed with a blunt object. 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.680 What happened here was that Barry Van Trees stopped in 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.840 in the evening of January sixth, took care of payroll 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.240 and took care of everybody at the Best Budget in 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:01.880 Oklahoma City before leaving and driving Tulsa to take care 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:06.320 of the payroll and the situation in Tulsa. He didn't 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:10.200 get to Tulsa till around midnight or so and didn't 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.280 stay there very long. Told the people in Tulsa when 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.320 he left to tell his wife that he would be 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.160 home in five and a half hours. Home was Lawton, Oklahoma. 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.160 It doesn't take five and a half hours to get 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.080 to Lawton, so obviously when he said that he had 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.320 plans to stop, he stopped back at the Best Budget 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:32.000 in in Oklahoma City where he went to room one 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:36.400 oh two. And that's where Justin Snead was waiting for him, 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.400 or at least his girlfriend was waiting for him. Because 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.920 we have found out that there was another person involved 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.520 in this case. It wasn't Rich Glossop, but it was 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:52.280 Justin Snead's girlfriend. The information that we have found is 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:56.480 that it was simply a robbery attempt. These two meth 0:08:56.720 --> 0:09:01.320 fueled young people thought they could simply take the keys 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.400 from Barry Van Trees and get the money out of 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.560 his car without Van Trees knowing or objecting. I don't 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.000 know what their plan was. We talked to one witness 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.880 and she had a great statement. She said, when you've 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.520 been on mess for twenty days in a row, the 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:23.040 idea fairy appears. That looks like what happened here. These 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.160 two people knew Barry Van Trees had a lot of money, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.920 and so we think that he was lured into room 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.640 one oh two by this girl. He knew he was 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:35.280 coming back to that place, and once there, confronted by 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.959 Justin Snead. From the information we have that we have 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:43.520 found from new witnesses, Sneid admitted that he was intending 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:46.760 simply to take Van Trees's money and not kill him. 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.080 But Van Trees fought back and at the end of 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.480 that fight, Barry Van Trees was beaten to death. It 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:55.720 wasn't just beaten to death, but there was also some 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:59.720 stab wounds on his body from a very blunt object. 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.800 Blunt object appears to be a pocket knife that the 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:07.400 police found in the motel room that had its tip 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:12.560 broken off. So for this murder. Justin Snead and his 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:18.200 girlfriend had two weapons, a baseball bat and a broken knife. 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.360 It would be really low on anyone's choices of how 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.840 to go right, sure. 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.240 But also I think low on somebody's idea of how 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.280 to kill somebody. I mean, if you're really planning to 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:30.800 murder someone, you don't go with a dull knife in 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.640 a baseball bat. You know. It sounds like a bad 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:39.640 plan from mess fueled young people. And the aftermath was 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.960 a continuation of that bad plan. The vehicle where the 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:49.160 money was was moved not more than fifty yards. It's 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.079 not as if it was moved away so that it 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.360 could be hidden. It was within plain view of the 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.080 best budget in in a credit union, right next to 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.760 the best budget in. It was found there the next 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:03.960 more by the security guard off duty sheriff's deputy working 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.960 at the Wayoki credit union found this vehicle sort of 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.520 with one tire up on the curb, parked in a 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.520 place that it shouldn't be parked, and that's what started 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.839 the investigation on the seventh into Barryvan Teresa's death. 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.480 So you might notice that Rich hasn't been mentioned yet 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.120 in the story of this crime and that's because no one, 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:29.120 not even the prosecution, ever claimed that he was even 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:33.200 in the room when it happened. Rich was sleeping in 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:37.720 the apartment behind the front desk with his girlfriend. That's undisputed. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.520 So why are we even having this conversation and how 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.480 is rich on death row? Well, the lead investigators in 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.200 this case, Bimo and Cook, who did little to no investigation, 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:52.720 basically didn't talk to anyone at the motel and instead 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:57.160 focused on Richard early on for a few very ill 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:58.240 conceived reasons. 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.520 They focused on Rich and I think I think the 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.880 first reason is Rich's last name is Glossop. Rich's family 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.760 was a known family with a criminal history in Oklahoma, 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.920 So I think that's one thing. That the second thing 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.800 when they found Van Trees's body at ten o'clock and 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:18.080 they said, you know, Rich, why don't you come in 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:20.400 and sit and talk with us? And was at that 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:25.720 point that Rich told them about that statement that Sneed made. 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.040 That was the point I think when the police said, oh, well, 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.400 he's hiding something. And I think that, in combination with 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.600 Rich's last name, I think that's what made the police 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.960 begin to think Rich Glossop had something to do with 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:38.520 this case. 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:45.800 They decide to focus on this one statement that he omitted, right, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.880 which is, I don't know that I would have done 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:50.559 anything differently myself. 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:52.920 It's clearly his right to do so. I mean, he 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:54.880 doesn't have to talk to the police. Nobody has to 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:55.840 talk to the police. 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.360 After this initial interview, on the seventh, Rich sells some 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.880 personal Lineay was to raise money for a lawyer and 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.880 talk to an attorney named David Mackenzie, who told him 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.800 quite rightly to not speak with the police. But Rich 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.199 did what a lot of innocent people do, right. He 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.880 believed that just telling the truth will set you free. 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.160 So he talked to Bemo and Cook. 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.880 Anyway, in the parking lot of Mackenzie's office, the police 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:26.880 were waiting for Rich. Rather than tell them I can't 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.679 talk to you because this lawyer just told me this 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.360 is what I'm supposed to say, Rich says, okay, I'll 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.480 talk to you. And Demo and Cook to have a 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.960 real bad history of how they do their interrogations, and 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.120 when they set themselves upon Rich, they were going to 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.520 do what they could do to try to get Rich 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.480 to say things that they could say were inconsistent, and 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.240 then they would start driving that home to try to 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.640 get him to confess to this crime. 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.199 But he never does confess to the crime. However, they 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.840 start trying to tell him that he said things in 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.600 his initial interview on the seventh that he did not. 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.960 They tried to catch him in lies with lies of 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:12.640 their own, and it's clear that they have their sights 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.520 set on him. Meanwhile, Snead took off on the afternoon 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.680 of the seventh, before Barry's body was even found. He 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:21.800 went off working with the roof and crew that he 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:25.800 came into town with from Texas, trying to make himself scarce. Basically, yeah, he. 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.000 Left New motel sometime after three o'clock, just took the 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.040 skateboard and took off again. It was It's something that 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.840 the prosecutor in both trials tried to paint that he 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.160 was totally dependent on Glossop for everything because he had 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.400 no way of making any money, which was just wrong. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:44.560 I mean, first off, he was stealing the place blind, 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.160 he was breaking into motel rooms, he was breaking into cars, 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.440 he was doing everything he could do to get money 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.880 for his drug habit. But when he left the motel 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:58.640 that day, he skateboarded over to were the people who 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:03.000 he used to work for doing roofing were and he 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.240 joined the roofing crew again. So he had the opportunity 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.000 at any point in time to go make more money 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.640 doing his roofing work than he ever made it the 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.320 best budget in and he did that on that day. 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.960 They didn't catch Sneid until the fourteenth of January. It 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.120 was the owner of the roofing company who seeing the 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.160 news accounts of what had happened and seeing Sneed's picture 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.040 on the news, that said to Sneid, I think you 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.040 need to turn yourself in. So he's the one that 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.200 called the police, and that's when they interrogated Sneed. 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.360 Right, And in Sneed's interrogation it's clear that Rich is 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.240 their main target. So they start working Snead over to 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.160 both admit to the crime and implicate Rich in some way. 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.120 Yeah, this was not a situation where they were saying, okay, 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.640 justin we've caught you, why don't you tell us what happened. Instead, 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.520 they go through this long prelude telling him what happened, 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.360 telling him what they know, telling him that they know 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.640 that somebody else was involved, and they don't want him 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:58.720 to hang alone. And in Sneed's first is like, I 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:00.920 don't even know what to say to tell you, as 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.080 if he didn't have anything to do with it, And 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.040 then they brought Rich's name into it. We think Rich 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.320 had something to do with it. You know, he's under arrest. 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.720 So Snead never said anything about Glossop at all. That 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.960 came from the police, and then they began to work 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:21.680 with Snead from there untill they finally got this sort 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.720 of crazy idea about Rich wanting to steal the money, 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.640 kill Van Trees and split the money with Sneid and 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:31.320 somehow or another they would run the motels. Some crazy 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.520 story that came out, which I think you would probably 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:36.040 expect from somebody who's high on. 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.680 Math, right, and who's being fed information by police who 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.080 are exactly not interested in the truth here. 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.560 So right, because if they had been interested into the truth, 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:48.000 they simply would have said, why don't you tell us 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.240 what happened? Tell us everything that you know. 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.600 And so Snead confesses to the murder. But what's clear 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.520 from his interrogation is that he was steered to drag 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:58.720 Rich into it as the mastermind of a murder for 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:03.440 higher plot, and then Snead uses this made up scenario 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.240 to save himself, making a deal for a life without 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.000 parole instead of the death penalty. 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.760 We have a witness who says he talked to Snead 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.639 that year while he was in jail with Steed, and 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.119 as Snead said, I had two main goals. One I 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.640 didn't want the death penalty and two I didn't want 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.359 my girlfriend to get caught. Snead got bold of what 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.840 he wanted at Rich's expense. 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:43.760 This episode is underwritten by Paul Weiss Rifkin, Porton and Garrison, 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:47.440 a leading international law firm. Paul Weiss has long had 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:51.720 an unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.280 to the most vulnerable members of our society and in 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:58.119 support of the public interest, including extensive work in the 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:05.720 criminal justice area. 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.320 Detective Demo in the docuseries that was done changed what 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.159 he testified at two trials and and it was a 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:17.400 murder for hire. He gives the statement in our docuseries 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.360 where he says, Oh, I think it was a robbery 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:23.560 went bad. That's the original story that Justin gave him, 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.440 that it was a robbery went bad, and they knew 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.800 that that's what it was, but they needed it to 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.399 be more. In my opinion, you know, prosecutors and stuff 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:32.760 need these notches in their belt so bad so they 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.720 could further their career. And it doesn't matter who they 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.199 get that notch from, as long as they get it. 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:43.480 My first judge, Judge Johnson, even looked at the prosecutor 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.920 and said, I don't understand where this is the murder case. 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.320 And she convinced the judge will give me some time. 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.440 And that's the only reason the judge even allowed it 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.080 to go forward, because he was convinced by a prosecutor 0:18:57.720 --> 0:18:59.000 to let her build a case. 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.440 Okay, so don there is a villain in this story, 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.120 of course. I'm talking about then district attorney Bob Macy, 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:12.120 who was nicknamed the Angel of Death, and he seemed 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:19.000 to get off on winning death penalty cases, innocent, guilty, whatever. 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.199 He played dress up like a cowboy, although he was 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:27.920 not a cowboy. Can you tell us about this awful character. 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:32.440 Bob Macy's just one of a handful of prosecuting attorneys 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:36.840 in the country that really drives the death penalty in 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:41.280 this country, they're only a handful of places where most 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.120 of the death penalty verdicts come from or at least 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.040 that has been the way in the past. New Orleans, 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.800 there was certainly one in Oklahoma City. And these prosecutors 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.760 they derive their power, i think, and their political base 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.679 from seeking and getting the death penalty. They look at 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:01.680 that as being tough on crime, and Macy certainly forged 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:05.280 his legacy with all of that in mind. I think 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:10.200 the thing that happens in these places is it can't 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.760 just be one person that does this, but it becomes 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.679 a culture. He was in power in Oklahoma City for 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.199 a long time. A lot of his prosecutors went on 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.439 to become judges. So now you've got not just the 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.160 prosecuting attorney's office, but they're on the bench as well. 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.200 So they've got judges, prosecutors, forensic people, you've got police, 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:34.920 and you've got jurors who are just ready to go 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:39.800 on these death penalty cases. And they begin to sort 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:44.560 of cow the defense bar into either going along and 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:49.359 getting their clients some kind of plea or they lose 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.280 at trial, and these death verdicts result. It becomes a 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:57.000 cultural situation where you have no one fighting anymore for 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.800 the defendant and to sort of get on the train 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:02.520 or get run over by the trained mentality takes over. 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.879 So Rich is charged with capital murder, which the fact 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:09.840 that he's being tried for his life for not having 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.040 killed anyone is insane in and of itself. But that's 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.960 a totally another story. And so a trial sneed testified 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.680 that Rich was the mastermind behind this murder for higher plot, 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.399 thereby receiving the direct benefit of not being sent to 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.040 death row himself. I feel like this should have been 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:28.520 easy to beat. 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.520 So Rich had a terrible lawyer, guy named Wayne Farnarat. 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.199 In the first trial, he never I don't even know 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.560 if he ever tried a case before. He was completely 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.600 incompetent and put on no witnesses, didn't know how to 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.439 cross examine anybody. Basically, the case went exactly as the 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:50.359 prosecutors wanted it to go, and Rich was sentenced to death. 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:53.240 Vaornerot had no idea how to do a penalty phase 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.520 in a death case. He didn't do any investigation. I mean, 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:58.800 Rich was a guy without a criminal history at all. 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:00.840 I mean, if you're talking about the death penalty in 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.879 the United States, you're supposedly talking about the worst of 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.080 the worst. Well, Rich had never committed a crime before. 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:09.879 How could he possibly be the worst of the worst? 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:11.120 Is this crime bad? 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:11.400 Yes? 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.159 Is it the worst crime ever? No, it's not the 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:18.040 worst crime ever. So he doesn't fit that category at all. 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:20.920 And yet, because of the way things were in Oklahoma 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.600 at the time, they were able to get a conviction 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:25.760 and a death sentence. 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:29.159 Right, So was Rich convicted solely on the basis of 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.040 the testimony of a murderous meth head or was there 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:34.879 some sort of other evidence offered a trial? 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:38.800 I would answer the question in both ways. Yes, no question. 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:42.960 It was really all about what Snead said, and he 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:47.560 said very many different things at different times. He initially 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:52.120 told the police that Glossop told him to kill Van 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:55.960 Trees and rob him of somewhere around five thousand dollars 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.760 and they would split it. But by the time the 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:03.200 first trial rolled around, Snead added things like Rich told 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:06.439 me to go buy some muriatic acid because we were 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:09.320 going to melt the body and I wasn't able to 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:12.720 do that. So Sneid had a variety of stories that 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.399 ultimately came out that just simply shows that he was 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.280 not telling the truth. He was never consistent with anything 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:22.000 that he said, and the prosecutor had to sort of 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:24.760 cobble together what the Court of Appeals would later call 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:28.680 corroborating evidence that was really really weak from a standpoint 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:33.000 of corroborating evidence. They had put together a spreadsheet and 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:38.119 an allegation that Rich was stealing money, that somehow or another, 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:41.480 the Van Trees family knew he was stealing money and 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.160 that they were about to fire him, and Rich knew 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:47.639 he was about to be fired, and so that formed 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:51.000 the motive for Rich to do this killing. There is 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.200 no real evidence of that. We took a look at 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:55.879 that spreadsheet, which by the way, no one did until 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.280 we got involved in this case. We have two forensic 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:01.919 accountants who looked at it and they said, the idea 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:04.760 that Rich was stealing money based upon the information that 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:06.680 we see is crazy. 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:10.119 So after his first conviction, Rich took his case to 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.880 the Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals, who called the evidence 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:16.000 against him extremely weak. 0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:19.040 And the Oklahoma Court or Criminal Appeals looked at the 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:22.040 job that Wayne Farnerott did and said this can't be okay, 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:26.040 and they in a unanimous verdict, which never happened. Ondirect 0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:30.119 Appeal threw it back and said he gets a new trial. 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:34.040 Right. So the second trial rolls around and Oklahoma is 0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:36.119 not done with their dirty tricks. And you know what 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:39.440 I'm talking about the way that they managed to remove 0:24:39.760 --> 0:24:44.679 an attorney who was prepared to probably win this case 0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:46.480 and right this wrong. 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:50.320 Yeah, this lawyer was the appellate lawyer for Rich a 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:53.560 guy named Lynn Birch, did a great job getting the 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.359 case tossed out on appeal, decided to keep it, and 0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:00.760 was working the case leading up to this second trial 0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:04.280 when he made an error, and that is going to 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:08.560 see Justin Snead. The night before the trial began. They 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:10.800 think Lynn Birch was looking to see if there was 0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:14.160 some way that Snead would simply come clean and tell 0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:16.399 the truth. The air that Lynn Burch made was not 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:19.840 taking an investigator with him, not taking a third party. 0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:22.240 Because when he showed up in court the next morning, 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:25.600 the prosecutor said, Judge, we've got a problem. Lynn Birch 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:30.320 was threatening our witness and was harassing Justin Snead. Rather 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:32.920 than fight that, which I think Burch should have done, 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:35.439 he should have said, I didn't do anything like that. 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:37.639 I never said anything wrong. Let me tell you what 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:39.920 I told him. Put me on the witness stand, put 0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:42.560 sneed on the witness stand, let's have it out. Birch 0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:45.960 simply said, you know, okay, you know, I probably screwed 0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:49.159 up in there, and he left the case the morning 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:53.800 of trial, which caused a six month extension. But with 0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:56.159 Birch gone, it left it in the hands of two 0:25:56.240 --> 0:25:58.359 lawyers who were not prepared for the trial, and he 0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:01.399 did very little. The lead up to the next trial. 0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:05.680 They did no investigation, they put on no witnesses, Their 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:09.000 cross examinations were horrible. They allowed the prosecution to run 0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:13.320 wild with leading questions. Basically, the kids were greased and 0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:17.399 the prosecution just got their case through like they wanted. 0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:20.159 In the second trial, it was really strange because the 0:26:20.200 --> 0:26:22.680 prosecutor came into the courtroom, she looked at the jury 0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:25.440 and she goes, I have no evidence against Richard Glad 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:29.959 just justin sneath. So now it becomes who you're going 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:35.040 to believe. Every witness had new testimony who when they 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:37.520 were asked, oh, you didn't remember it the day it happened, 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:40.120 but you remember it seven years later, and they would 0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:42.920 sit there and say, the prosecutor helped us remember. 0:26:44.240 --> 0:26:47.440 As a result, the results were predictable, which is that 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:51.119 in August two thousand and four, another Oklahoma jury found 0:26:51.200 --> 0:26:55.199 Richard guilty and Richard gets sentenced to death again. 0:26:55.680 --> 0:26:58.800 It's strange how you go through your whole life doing 0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:01.760 what's right, think that you know, if you tell the 0:27:01.800 --> 0:27:05.159 truth and then everything's going to be okay. And then 0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:08.280 you're standing there when somebody says, you know, we find 0:27:08.320 --> 0:27:10.439 you guilty of murder and you had nothing to do 0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:12.720 with this time, and your just your mouth just balls 0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:15.200 open and this feeling comes over you, like, how can 0:27:15.280 --> 0:27:18.320 this possibly be happening to me? This doesn't make sense. 0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:21.639 It's one of the strangest feelings that's really hard to 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:25.040 put into word, but it's just like every part of 0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:30.440 you just goes numb. It's like you're just in shock 0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:33.840 and you don't know, you don't even have a response 0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:35.960 to it. You just stand there and you just like 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:37.720 you just can't even believe it. It's one of the 0:27:37.800 --> 0:27:57.760 most overwhelming things I've ever had to face, you know. 0:27:57.760 --> 0:28:00.720 When I walked in, they they take you to the 0:28:00.760 --> 0:28:02.159 main gate up there and they put you in this 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:04.680 little shack. Why they wait to get people to take 0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:07.800 you down to Agena where you're supposed to go. And 0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:09.560 I got to be honest with you, when they open 0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:15.280 that door, like your hole just like disappears almost immediately 0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:20.040 because it's so gloomy and so cold. In all honesty, 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:23.200 it felt like death. It just felt like you were 0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:24.439 surrounded by death. 0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:27.439 Rich I want you to know that there are a 0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:29.520 lot of good people who are out of here pulling 0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:33.239 for you more than you even know. And so you 0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:37.920 ended up exhausting all of your appeals with substandard representation 0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:41.640 who never did any of the necessary investigation into your case. 0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:44.880 So predictably you had more of the same results, which 0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:48.760 brings us to your clemency proceedings back in twenty fourteen. 0:28:48.920 --> 0:28:51.840 Which turned out to be just as big of a 0:28:51.880 --> 0:28:55.000 fiasco as my trials did. I was turned down for clemency, 0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:58.320 and the reason being is not only was there a 0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:02.040 prosecutor from my case on the board, Bob Macy's son 0:29:02.280 --> 0:29:05.640 was as well, and when we brought to their attentions 0:29:05.760 --> 0:29:08.560 after him, I was denied clemacy. The clemency boy claimed 0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:12.160 that they had no idea that she had been a 0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:13.200 prosecutor on my case. 0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:17.080 Did she not remember she knew me really well? And 0:29:17.280 --> 0:29:19.680 Bob Macy's son is there as well. 0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:22.480 Yeah, Masy someone still has something to do with the 0:29:22.480 --> 0:29:23.320 billboard today. 0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:25.760 I'm rarely at a loss for words, but that is 0:29:26.120 --> 0:29:27.640 just ridiculous. 0:29:28.000 --> 0:29:30.440 I know, why don't we have anybody that had anything 0:29:30.440 --> 0:29:33.240 to do with Bob may or his office on a 0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:35.960 parole board that deals with that's row inmates. 0:29:37.360 --> 0:29:40.320 So your clemency was denied, but you didn't take that 0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:41.040 sitting down. 0:29:41.320 --> 0:29:46.680 In October twenty fourteen, I started this campaign. I was 0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:50.080 writing letters, hundreds of letters to everybody. I wrote letters 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:52.280 to John McCain, who answered me, by the way, who 0:29:52.320 --> 0:29:55.000 I became friends with, and he introduced my case to 0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:57.840 people here in Oklahoma like Tom Kobern and others who 0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:00.080 sit up for me back then. 0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:03.760 So, while Richard was fighting for his life, other significant 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:06.600 events were in foot concerning the way in which the 0:30:06.640 --> 0:30:10.280 state planned to kill him and others. Lethal injection. Lethal 0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:13.280 injection as a method of state sanctioned murder, consists of 0:30:13.320 --> 0:30:16.440 three drugs. A sedative, which depresses the nervous system and 0:30:16.480 --> 0:30:20.920 renders the person unconscious, next, a paralytic, which provides skeletal 0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:25.560 and muscular relaxation as well as depresses respiration, and finally, 0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:30.040 a potassium solution which causes cardiac arrest. The most common 0:30:30.160 --> 0:30:34.920 lethal injection drug combination is for the sedative sodium theopental 0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:39.560 or pentobarbitol, then pancuronium bromide as the paralytic, and finally 0:30:39.640 --> 0:30:44.240 potassium chloride, which causes the heart attack. In twenty eleven, 0:30:44.400 --> 0:30:48.800 some American pharma companies halted production of sodium theopental, and 0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:52.800 the European Union enacted a torture regulation that banned the 0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:55.640 export of drugs for the use of lethal injections, starting 0:30:55.640 --> 0:31:01.920 with sodium theopental and later pentobarbitol. By twenty fourteen, states 0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:05.280 were experiencing a shortage of the necessary drugs, which affected 0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:08.160 their ability to carry out death sentences according to protocol. 0:31:08.480 --> 0:31:13.080 Oklahoma began looking for alternatives like medazzelam in place of 0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:18.360 sodium theopental. Following this change, the forty three minute long 0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:23.400 botched execution of Clayton Lockett on April twenty nine, twenty fourteen. 0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:27.920 Another death throw inmate, Charles Warner, awaited the same fate 0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:30.880 that night, just steps away from the death chamber, but 0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:34.720 as a result of the horror of Lockett's execution, warners 0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:39.520 was delayed. After an investigation, Oklahoma blamed an inability to 0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:42.600 find Lockett's veins as the cause of the botched execution 0:31:42.880 --> 0:31:46.320 and decided to continue with the same drug protocol involving 0:31:46.480 --> 0:31:51.360 medazzelam as a sedative, prompting Richard, Charles Warner, and nineteen 0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:55.280 others to sue Oklahoma, and eventually they took the case 0:31:55.520 --> 0:31:57.640 all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States. 0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:01.880 While this was being litigated, Richard's clemency was denied and 0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:05.000 his campaign from death row was just beginning. He got 0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:08.160 in touch with renowned death penalty abolition as Sister Helen 0:32:08.200 --> 0:32:12.680 Prejon with his first execution date an warners looming in 0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:14.400 January twenty fifteen. 0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:19.680 So in late twenty fourteen, he calls Sister Helen, or 0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:22.480 he sends her a letter and says, hey, sister Helen, 0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:24.640 you know, will you be with me when they kill me? 0:32:25.200 --> 0:32:27.600 And she looks into the case a little bit and 0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:29.920 then she calls me and I got together with another 0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:32.960 lawyer named Mark Olive who does a lot of state 0:32:33.000 --> 0:32:36.280 habeas work. And by now we're out of options. I mean, 0:32:36.320 --> 0:32:40.200 there's no court appearances left, clemency has been done. Basically, 0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:43.120 we're out of options. At this point in time, rich 0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:45.880 comes up for an execution date. 0:32:46.320 --> 0:32:50.360 So Oklahoma sets the date for January twenty ninth, twenty fifteen. 0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:52.080 And a lot of people don't know this, but in 0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:57.600 Oklahoma and other states, a period of real psychological torture 0:32:57.720 --> 0:32:59.680 begins prior to execution. 0:33:00.120 --> 0:33:02.760 Now, I was taken upstairs. They take you up thirty 0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:05.200 five days prior to your execution. You have to sit 0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:08.040 in this room that is so brightly lit for twenty 0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:10.920 four hours a day. Lights never go off so bright 0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:15.560 that I can see a tiny ant walking across a 0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:19.400 dark and gray floor. That's how bright that room is. 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:22.200 You're on camera twenty four to seven, and you have 0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:25.160 a guard sitting outside your door. Twenty four seven. You 0:33:25.240 --> 0:33:28.560 can't cover your head, you can't do any of that. 0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:33.120 This is what people have to endure in Oklahoma before 0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:33.880 they're executed. 0:33:34.640 --> 0:33:36.480 While he and one are away to death. The suit 0:33:36.560 --> 0:33:40.160 continued in litigation, and on January thirteenth, twenty fifteen, the 0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:43.160 group of condemned prisoner's petition the US Supreme Court for 0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:46.680 a writ of certierrari and stays of their executions as 0:33:46.720 --> 0:33:50.000 evidenced by other botched executions in Ohio and Arizona. The 0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:53.840 petitioners argued that the medazolam would not numb the pain 0:33:53.920 --> 0:33:56.800 that would be caused by the other two drugs, so 0:33:56.920 --> 0:34:01.640 on January fifteenth, the lead petitioner, Charles Warner, was denied 0:34:01.720 --> 0:34:05.200 a stay and executed later that day over the descent 0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:08.560 of four justices, leaving Richard as the next in line. 0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:10.840 Sister Helen and a bunch of people were there visiting me. 0:34:11.160 --> 0:34:12.960 It was the day before I was supposed to be executed. 0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:15.919 It was funny because Sister Helen came like I seen 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:18.040 her head like moving up and down in the crowd, 0:34:18.080 --> 0:34:20.480 and she gave me the phone and it was the Vatican. 0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:22.600 And I got talked to the Vatican that day. And 0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:25.880 as soon as I got done, the guards ran everybody 0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:27.719 out of there to say, you got an attorney call. 0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:30.200 So they set me down and gave me the phone, 0:34:30.239 --> 0:34:32.719 and my attorney said, the Supreme Court just gave you 0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:36.480 a stay and you are now going to Supreme Court 0:34:36.680 --> 0:34:37.800 against lethal ingestion. 0:34:38.640 --> 0:34:42.360 Sister Helen was able to mobilize a lot of people 0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:48.040 and put some petitions together, and the Supreme Court, while 0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:51.200 they didn't grant a stay for Charles Warner, based on 0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:55.520 basically the same information on the lethal injection drug granted 0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:57.799 rich a stay, and so he got to stay about 0:34:57.800 --> 0:35:00.640 twenty four hours in advance of his first execut date 0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:03.480 to have his case gloss OFP. B. Gross go before 0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:04.759 the United States Supreme. 0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:06.839 Court, And so there was a whole place on all 0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:09.760 executions in Oklahoma until the ruling was made. On June 0:35:09.760 --> 0:35:12.480 twenty ninth, twenty fifteen, in the last day of the 0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:16.280 Supreme Court's term. They ruled five to four against Richard 0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:19.800 and the condemned prisoners, allowing me dazolam as the sedative, 0:35:19.800 --> 0:35:24.280 and Richard's execution date was set for September fifteenth, twenty fifteen, 0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:29.480 so thirty five days prior the death ritual began again. 0:35:30.000 --> 0:35:33.880 They actually move you to a cell that's about four 0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:37.440 cells away from the actual death chamber, and you're in 0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:39.880 that cell for a few days, and then they bring 0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:43.440 you to the third cell, one closer to the death chamber, 0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:45.160 and they leave you there for a few days, and 0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:47.440 then they bring you to the second cell, one more 0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:50.120 step closer to the death chamber, and then they move 0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:53.040 you to the cell next to the death chamber. And 0:35:53.360 --> 0:35:55.799 if that's not torture in and of itself, by the 0:35:55.840 --> 0:35:58.239 time you get to that final thing. You can see 0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:00.880 the people coming and going from the death chamber. You 0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:02.960 know what's happening, you know what they're preparing, you know 0:36:03.000 --> 0:36:06.080 what they're going to do. And Rich was subject to 0:36:06.160 --> 0:36:10.640 that for a long period of time. Because we ended 0:36:10.680 --> 0:36:13.520 up with a stay of execution on September fifteenth. He 0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:15.839 had already been subjected to that, he'd already been brought 0:36:15.880 --> 0:36:18.920 to that final place. It was two hours in advance 0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:22.080 of the execution that hit that the second execution was stopped, 0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:24.319 and then we had a two weeks stay so that 0:36:24.440 --> 0:36:27.080 Rich was moved once again, just back to where he 0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:30.200 had been and to start that whole process over again. 0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:34.680 So Rich was subjected to this incredible emotional torture in 0:36:34.760 --> 0:36:38.200 advance of the third execution date, which was set for 0:36:38.320 --> 0:36:40.320 September thirtieth of twenty fifteen. 0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:46.080 I was in a lit room for fifty four straight days, 0:36:46.600 --> 0:36:51.600 no darkness whatsoever. It's crazy what they put you through. 0:36:52.320 --> 0:36:55.719 They do mock executions in front of you. And I'm 0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:59.759 not trying to compare Oklahoma to Isis, but it's no 0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:02.440 different than what ISUS does to people. When they pull 0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:05.080 somebody out, they put a sword to their neck, they 0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:06.680 act like they're going to chop their head off, and 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:09.320 then they stop and they say, oh, we're going to 0:37:09.360 --> 0:37:12.520 wait for another day, put them back in himself, you know. 0:37:12.600 --> 0:37:14.279 And then they put the guy back in and bring 0:37:14.360 --> 0:37:17.160 him out the next day and keep doing this. I mean, 0:37:17.200 --> 0:37:20.640 where do we draw the line at torture, because this 0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:24.400 is torture. My first date, I got to stay the 0:37:24.480 --> 0:37:28.279 day before my execution. The second time I got to 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:32.279 stay hours before my execution. The third time I got 0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:35.120 to stay after my execution was supposed to have taken place. 0:37:36.320 --> 0:37:38.399 And these days came with a lot of work. Don 0:37:38.520 --> 0:37:41.360 so for the second one. On September fifteenth, few filed 0:37:41.360 --> 0:37:45.400 motions presenting new evidence, including a July ninety seven psychevaluation 0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:49.400 showing Sneed was aware of the charges against him and 0:37:49.440 --> 0:37:52.359 that he made no mention of Richard, as well as 0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:55.279 the numerous people Sneed confessed to along the way that 0:37:55.360 --> 0:37:58.920 he had acted alone and saved his own hide by 0:37:58.960 --> 0:38:02.680 implicating Richard. But despite all of that, on September twenty eighth, 0:38:02.760 --> 0:38:05.319 the Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals voted three to two 0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:09.000 to proceed with the execution, and the Supreme Court also 0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:12.359 deny to stay. Then the governor granted a stay on 0:38:12.440 --> 0:38:17.600 the thirtieth, citing that Oklahoma, contrary to lethal injection drug protocol, 0:38:17.640 --> 0:38:23.640 had received potassium acetate, a freaking food preservative, instead of 0:38:23.800 --> 0:38:28.520 potassium chloride for the cardiac arrest inducing portion of the cocktail. 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:31.040 So then Richard got a thirty seven day stay to 0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:32.840 November sixth, twenty fifteen. 0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:36.120 And it was interesting when that happened because sister Hillam 0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:38.480 was outside the prison and she was saying, it's a 0:38:38.560 --> 0:38:41.239 Richard Glossip preservative, because the drug they were going to 0:38:41.360 --> 0:38:44.680 use was actually used as a preservative, you know. But 0:38:44.719 --> 0:38:47.839 I think the scariest thing about that time was when 0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:52.040 the governor at the time told the first second in 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:58.759 command who was there, google it. When we'd gotten to 0:38:58.840 --> 0:39:01.600 a point in a societiety where we google how to 0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:04.880 execute people? Or is it okay to use certain drugs 0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:09.960 to execute people? That should just end the destiny by itself. 0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:14.000 It makes no sense to me at all that we 0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:19.480 entrust so many deeply flawed humans with the machinery of death, 0:39:19.560 --> 0:39:25.240 But nevertheless, here we are. So on October first, twenty fifteen, 0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:28.520 Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Prewitt asked the Court of Criminal 0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:32.200 Appeals to issue an indefinite stay of all executions, citing 0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:36.640 the acquisition of the wrong drugs. Then, on October eighth, 0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:39.399 it was revealed that Charles Warner had been killed using 0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:47.000 potassium acetate, the food preservative, contrary to protocol. Dag Prewit 0:39:47.520 --> 0:39:51.919 then ordered a multi county grand jury investigation, and this 0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:57.200 put a hold on executions in Oklahoma. And with this moratorium, 0:39:57.719 --> 0:40:02.359 the famous documentarian Joe Burlin, who made Paradise Lost about 0:40:02.360 --> 0:40:05.600 the West Memphis three, got involved to help uncover more 0:40:05.640 --> 0:40:10.440 evidence and make the incredibly powerful docuseries Killing Richard Glossip 0:40:10.520 --> 0:40:11.640 that we've been referencing. 0:40:13.480 --> 0:40:16.680 I'm Joe Burlinger, and I guess they've been talking about 0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:20.239 my docuseries Killing Richard Glossop. I mean, this case, to 0:40:20.280 --> 0:40:22.600 me is the very definition of why there should be 0:40:22.719 --> 0:40:26.800 no death penalty. It just demonstrates how easily innocent people 0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:29.800 can be put to death. This was a spontaneous act 0:40:30.040 --> 0:40:34.080 of an opportunistic robbery that went awry, and all the 0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:38.160 evidence suggests that, and no evidence points to Richard Glossop, 0:40:38.200 --> 0:40:41.160 even the fact that when they found money on each 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:44.319 of them, the fact that there was blood on the 0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:47.440 two thousand dollars that Sneed had in his pocket, and 0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:50.239 Richard's money had no blood on it. Here you have 0:40:50.360 --> 0:40:54.239 a murder for higher plot. And yet he himself, Justin 0:40:54.320 --> 0:40:58.279 Sneed says in his original statement, and he said it 0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:00.960 again to me when I interviewed him, that he never 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:04.319 really intended to kill Barry van Trees. He just was 0:41:04.360 --> 0:41:07.360 hoping to kind of immobilize him. Well, then, how is 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.319 it a murder for higher plot? I mean, that very 0:41:10.360 --> 0:41:16.800 basic fact makes it impossible to believe his story. 0:41:17.080 --> 0:41:20.919 So the one thing that Sneed has been consistent about 0:41:21.160 --> 0:41:23.720 is that he never meant to kill Barry van Trees. 0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:29.600 So through his own repeated admissions, he denies Rich's involvement. 0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:33.160 Rich was supposed to have ordered him, remember, according to 0:41:33.200 --> 0:41:35.880 the state, to rob and kill Barry. But if he 0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:39.960 never intended to kill Barry, then he could not have 0:41:39.960 --> 0:41:44.760 been operating under Rich's authority. Therefore there was no murder 0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:49.760 for higher plot. Richard could never have been involved. I mean, which, 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:53.359 justin Snead, are we supposed to believe the Sneed who 0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:55.520 says Richard told me to do it, so I had 0:41:55.560 --> 0:41:58.759 to do it, or the Sneed who never intended to 0:41:58.840 --> 0:42:02.520 kill Barry van tries despite the alleged quote unquote orders 0:42:02.560 --> 0:42:07.359 of Richard Classip. He can't be both not that any 0:42:07.400 --> 0:42:11.600 of this matters to our legal processes, as actual innocence 0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:15.240 does not entitle one to relief according to the United 0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:19.640 States Supreme Court. So don where do we stand now? 0:42:20.400 --> 0:42:23.279 So we've got several new witnesses, people that nobody has 0:42:23.280 --> 0:42:26.160 ever heard. We know the story now, we heard it 0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:30.000 from Sneed's mouth through at least two or three witnesses. 0:42:30.239 --> 0:42:32.520 We know what happened in this case, and we know 0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:35.560 that rich didn't have anything to do with this murder 0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:39.239 at all. And so we are ready to go to 0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:42.640 the Pardon and Parole Board with this new information. We 0:42:42.680 --> 0:42:45.439 would go to court, but we've already been to court 0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:49.800 in twenty fifteen. We lost there. There are procedural bars 0:42:50.080 --> 0:42:53.440 that are in place to keep us from even getting 0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:58.480 a chance to fairly litigate this innocence again. So right 0:42:58.520 --> 0:43:02.000 now the state of Oklahoma is set to once again 0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:06.040 begin the process of killing people. There is an end 0:43:06.080 --> 0:43:10.399 to the current lawsuit that's going on with Rich's name 0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:12.320 on it. Again, it's the success of a gloss of 0:43:12.400 --> 0:43:16.040 be gross and once the court makes a ruling on 0:43:16.239 --> 0:43:19.279 the protocol that they know how to kill somebody with 0:43:19.320 --> 0:43:21.920 whatever drug they use. They're going to go ahead and 0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:24.400 begin to set dates once again, and we don't know 0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:24.880 if rich. 0:43:24.719 --> 0:43:25.240 Will be first. 0:43:25.280 --> 0:43:27.439 He doesn't have to be first, but he was last up. 0:43:28.320 --> 0:43:30.799 It's entirely possible that he will be the first one 0:43:31.320 --> 0:43:35.360 set for execution, and that could take place sometime in 0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:36.120 the late summer. 0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:39.840 The worst case scenario, they could set a date on 0:43:39.920 --> 0:43:40.560 July first. 0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:46.040 I don't even know what to say anymore. His fate 0:43:46.480 --> 0:43:51.000 has essentially been determined, barring action from the parle Board 0:43:51.040 --> 0:43:54.480 and the executive branch, but his legal fate has been 0:43:54.560 --> 0:43:57.720 sealed because of technical considerations. 0:43:58.280 --> 0:44:01.960 In twenty fifteen, we have two judges who, based upon 0:44:02.000 --> 0:44:04.480 the evidence we had then, which is a shadow of 0:44:04.520 --> 0:44:07.520 the evidence that we have now at that point in time, 0:44:07.600 --> 0:44:09.840 two judges said we want to give this guy hearing 0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:12.760 on his innocence claim, but three judges said we won't, 0:44:13.080 --> 0:44:17.200 simply because of finality of judgment. That was their whole point. 0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:20.799 That's the court's point is we can't let this go 0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:23.760 on forever. We're going to stop it. Like you said, 0:44:24.239 --> 0:44:30.000 innocence doesn't matter. That's the legal posture that we face today. 0:44:30.640 --> 0:44:34.160 Right That awful decision was Herrera versus Collins in nineteen 0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:37.680 ninety three, where the Supreme Court said what I just said, 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:40.440 evidence of innocence is not enough to stop the wheels 0:44:40.480 --> 0:44:42.960 of justice from turning and in this case, turning right 0:44:43.000 --> 0:44:45.719 into a state sponsored murder of an innocent man named 0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:46.440 Richard Glossen. 0:44:46.960 --> 0:44:50.800 I'm asking everybody to go to say Richard glossa dot com, 0:44:51.000 --> 0:44:53.640 to sign the petitions that we have, but to also 0:44:53.680 --> 0:44:56.319 participate in everything that we're doing to try to bring 0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:59.040 justice reforms so that we can prevent this from happening 0:44:59.160 --> 0:45:02.600 to other people. This isn't always about one person, and 0:45:02.640 --> 0:45:04.520 that's what I've always tried to make clear to people. 0:45:04.960 --> 0:45:07.799 This is about many innocent people who are facing what 0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:09.600 I'm facing, and I don't want them to face it. 0:45:09.640 --> 0:45:11.279 I don't want them to go through what I went through. 0:45:12.080 --> 0:45:15.279 We got to stand up as a society. We have 0:45:15.320 --> 0:45:16.960 to stand up as a people. We have to stand 0:45:17.040 --> 0:45:19.360 up and say, hey, we're not going to tolerate this anymore. 0:45:20.360 --> 0:45:22.720 We got to change this. We got to permit innocent 0:45:22.800 --> 0:45:26.840 be executed, and we got to open people's eyes to 0:45:26.960 --> 0:45:29.880 why this is such a barbaric practice and why it 0:45:29.880 --> 0:45:31.200 should no longer take place. 0:45:31.960 --> 0:45:35.279 Go to save Richard glossip dot com. We'll also have 0:45:35.360 --> 0:45:38.840 links in the bio for action steps that you can take, 0:45:39.640 --> 0:45:42.799 and you know, with that, I want to turn it 0:45:42.840 --> 0:45:46.839 over to YouTube. Guys, thank you for being here with 0:45:46.920 --> 0:45:51.520 us today and spreading the word about this awful injustice. 0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:55.400 And well, now we turn to what we call closing arguments. 0:45:55.440 --> 0:45:57.880 This is a section of the show where I turned 0:45:57.880 --> 0:46:01.800 my microphone off, back in my chair, leave my headphones on, 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:05.719 close my eyes, and just listen to whatever you have 0:46:05.920 --> 0:46:08.440 to say that we may have left out, or anything 0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:10.640 you want to share with our audience. So, Richard, we're 0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:14.400 going to save you for last and let Don go first. 0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:17.640 And again, Richard, I just want you to know we're 0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:20.759 all out here thinking about you. So many people are 0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:24.400 praying for you, and we hope to see you free 0:46:24.760 --> 0:46:27.359 before too long. Over to you, Don. 0:46:28.920 --> 0:46:31.440 Well, thank you, Jason. I really appreciate you taking the 0:46:31.480 --> 0:46:34.680 time to shine a light on this terrible case and 0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:38.120 this terrible injustice that we are hoping to stop with 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:43.160 a hearing later this year, Richard glossiped a simple guy 0:46:43.520 --> 0:46:46.600 who was in love with a young woman Richard loved 0:46:46.640 --> 0:46:49.600 his job at the best budget in loved Barry Van Trees. 0:46:49.719 --> 0:46:52.120 They had a great relationship. Rich never took any money 0:46:52.160 --> 0:46:55.680 from Barry Van Trees and very respected Rich. And a 0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:58.880 terrible murder took place that rich did not have anything 0:46:58.920 --> 0:47:03.120 at all to do with, and the wheels of justice 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:06.719 began to turn in Oklahoma City the way that they 0:47:06.760 --> 0:47:09.879 did back in those days with Bob Macy, and those 0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:13.680 wheels just simply ran over Richard Glossop. He was a 0:47:13.800 --> 0:47:19.200 victim of very very poor lawyering, of over aggressive police work, 0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:23.680 of over aggressive prosecutors who only cared about one thing, 0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:26.640 and that was getting a conviction and getting a death sentence, 0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:30.040 because that was the culture of Oklahoma City at the time. 0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:34.800 There was a series of three letters to the current 0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:39.440 District Attorney, David Prater. We have requested a lot of 0:47:39.719 --> 0:47:43.960 substantive information that we believe would prove that rich Glossop 0:47:44.000 --> 0:47:47.360 had nothing to do with this, and we have received 0:47:47.719 --> 0:47:50.960 no answers. We continue to wait for David Prater. So 0:47:51.040 --> 0:47:54.080 at this point in time, we're preparing for a clemency 0:47:54.080 --> 0:47:56.239 hearing that we know will take place later this year, 0:47:57.160 --> 0:47:59.800 and we are hoping that people will go to save Richard. 0:48:01.200 --> 0:48:03.920 You can find a petition there to the governor and 0:48:03.960 --> 0:48:06.879 the Partner and Parole Board, letting those people know that 0:48:06.960 --> 0:48:10.160 this is wrong, what's happening, and that the only way 0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:13.040 to write it is to grant rich clemency and allow 0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:14.520 us to get back into court again. 0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:17.880 What were to you, rich You know when I walked in, 0:48:18.160 --> 0:48:21.080 I took that first step on agent it, on death row. 0:48:21.480 --> 0:48:25.520 I said that I have two choices. I can make 0:48:25.560 --> 0:48:27.759 peace with death or I can let it destroy me. 0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:30.600 And so I made peace with death right then and there, 0:48:31.239 --> 0:48:32.880 and I just said, I'm not going to let it 0:48:32.920 --> 0:48:35.279 destroy me. I'm going to be the same person I 0:48:35.440 --> 0:48:38.400 was and I am to this day. I sing in 0:48:38.400 --> 0:48:42.040 my cell out loud, I laughed, I dance around, and 0:48:42.200 --> 0:48:44.400 guards are always freaking out because I'm the way that 0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:45.880 I am. And I told them, I said, you know, 0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:48.279 I was a happy guy my whole life, and I'm 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:51.000 not going to let this change who I am because 0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:55.080 we only have one life to live and it's a gift. 0:48:55.280 --> 0:48:57.520 And I'm going to celebrate life no matter where the 0:48:57.520 --> 0:49:00.080 hell I'm at, even in this hole, I'm going to 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:03.359 celebrate life. I've heard so many stories about people who 0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:06.520 lost it down on Atue and I've seen it for myself. 0:49:06.680 --> 0:49:08.520 I've witnessed it myself, and there are a lot of 0:49:08.520 --> 0:49:12.400 people with serious mental health issues because you're isolated for 0:49:12.520 --> 0:49:16.560 years and years and years, and it's yeah, it's hard. 0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:22.120 And thankfully, you know, I had my art. I've written songs. 0:49:22.120 --> 0:49:24.560 I've written so many poems. I've written a book which 0:49:24.600 --> 0:49:26.600 I can't wait to get get out there to people, 0:49:26.640 --> 0:49:28.359 because it's a book of hope. It's a book of 0:49:28.640 --> 0:49:31.279 showing people that you do have more strengthen you know, 0:49:31.320 --> 0:49:34.239 and you can take your courage and you can move 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:36.480 forward and you can have hope at the end. And 0:49:36.560 --> 0:49:40.080 I described the three execution attempt. I describe everything because 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:42.480 I want people to know no matter how bad things get, 0:49:43.840 --> 0:49:46.640 there is always something good that will come from the 0:49:46.680 --> 0:49:50.640 worst situations you face in life. You just got to 0:49:50.680 --> 0:49:53.120 fight for it and you've got to make sure it happens. 0:49:53.760 --> 0:49:56.439 So it's we're in a fight. We're in a big 0:49:56.480 --> 0:49:59.920 fight with legislators and people in the state of Oklahoma 0:50:00.120 --> 0:50:02.200 who we're standing up saying we need to prevent this 0:50:02.440 --> 0:50:05.319 and hopefully we can succeed because I do have a 0:50:05.360 --> 0:50:07.759 lot more like lifts, and I do have a lot 0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:12.200 more battle to raise against the destbility. Look at like 0:50:12.320 --> 0:50:15.080 what's happening here in Oklahoma, one of the biggest Republican 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:18.719 states in the country, and you have Republicans now staying 0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:21.520 and up saying we're not going to tolerate this anymore. 0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:24.320 We're not going to kill innocent people. I'm proud of 0:50:25.280 --> 0:50:29.400 Legislator mcdoogle and Legislator Humphrey, and you know, even the 0:50:29.440 --> 0:50:32.440 local businessman Justin Jesson. I'm really proud of these people 0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:36.400 because they're diehard conservative and yet they're standing us for 0:50:36.440 --> 0:50:38.840 innocence because it's not a left thing, and it's not 0:50:38.920 --> 0:50:42.200 a right thing. It's an innocent thing. And we've got 0:50:42.239 --> 0:50:46.960 to stop using politics in justice reform. We all want 0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:49.320 the right things. If we don't, then then you shouldn't 0:50:49.320 --> 0:50:51.960 be an office. We all want fair, we all want justice. 0:50:51.960 --> 0:50:54.520 And that's why I've always said that take the blindfold 0:50:54.560 --> 0:50:56.960 off of Lady Justice, because that's one of the days 0:50:57.000 --> 0:51:00.839 that's always weirded me out over the years, as you're saying, well, 0:51:00.880 --> 0:51:02.759 she's fine, sold fold us so she can be fair. 0:51:02.760 --> 0:51:04.359 How can you be fair if you can't see what's 0:51:04.360 --> 0:51:08.879 going on, So take the mindfold awesome letter, see what's 0:51:08.920 --> 0:51:10.880 going on, and she'll see alfair of justice really is 0:51:11.000 --> 0:51:11.880 in that country. 0:51:18.719 --> 0:51:21.560 Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 0:51:22.120 --> 0:51:25.120 Please support your local innocence projects and go to the 0:51:25.160 --> 0:51:27.120 link in our bio to see how you can help. 0:51:27.600 --> 0:51:30.640 I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff 0:51:30.680 --> 0:51:34.520 Clyburn and Kevin Wardis. The music on the show, as always, 0:51:34.600 --> 0:51:37.840 is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. 0:51:38.040 --> 0:51:38.600 Be sure to. 0:51:38.520 --> 0:51:42.279 Follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook 0:51:42.320 --> 0:51:46.279 at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is 0:51:46.280 --> 0:51:49.200 a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with 0:51:49.280 --> 0:52:06.000 Signal Company Number one.