WEBVTT - Accountability & Engagement. Lanhee Chen Talks to Armstrong & Getty 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.480 Let's welcome to the Armstrong and Getty Show. Long Hea Chen. 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:05.520 He's a candidate for California State Controller for one thing, 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:08.000 but we've been having him on for years. David and 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:11.000 Diane Stephy fellow in American Public Policy Studies at the 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:15.200 Hoover Institution, the director of Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford University, 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:17.400 which is pretty impressive. Along he welcomed to the Armstrong 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:19.720 and Getty Show once again. It's good to be back 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:21.759 with you, guys. Thanks. Not about the details of the 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:24.720 Hunter Biden thing, but don't you don't you think the um, 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.800 if there ever was a bloom on the rose, the 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.479 bloom is off the rows of the whole Joe Biden 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.559 brings us back to normalcy. Grown ups are in charge. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:39.879 No more craziness. That's gone, right, Yeah, I mean I 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.120 think there's two reasons why it's gone, guys. Number one 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.440 is because of Biden's own, uh, you know, kind of 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.760 his own behavior in office. Just in terms of what 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.040 we're seeing from him as somebody who, um, you know, 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.720 sometimes it looks like it's unclear whether he understands exactly 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.720 what the nature of the challenges and whether it's because 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.279 he just doesn't pay much attention or because you know, 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.440 for whatever reason it might be, it does feel a 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.280 little bit like sometimes he doesn't grasp the gravity of 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.959 the situation on. Give you an example when he off 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.960 handedly says that Vladimir Putin's got to go. Uh, you know, 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.160 it means something when an American president says that. It's 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.400 not just a throwaway comment, and so you have to wonder, 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.160 you know, Joe, what's part of I think what made 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:24.200 Joe Biden appealing at some point in his career was 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:26.559 that he kind of just said what came to mind. 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.440 But that's not really something that in this situation, I think, 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:32.679 you know, serves him all that well. But the second 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:34.480 reason why the bloom is off the Rose guys, is 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.080 because of just the policy decisions that he's made and 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.960 the various things that he has said about you know 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.840 what it is that uh, you know, we have to 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.440 do with respect to all sorts of different issues, right, 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:51.680 massive economic stimulus that's resulting in big time inflation. Uh, 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.440 you know, various things we're seeing in domestic policy that 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.240 really are far left of center. When it comes to 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.920 what we expected, you know, we expected a moderate We 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.040 got a far left progressive, and so I think for 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.000 those reasons, people are kind of saying, Hi, this wasn't 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.120 exactly what we expected. Yeah, yeah, absolutely true. And I 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.720 wanted to get into policy since that's your wheelhouse. Uh, 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.960 is there anything that would launch Well? I did see 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.720 us up pull the other day that had immigration as 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:22.680 the third biggest priority of American voters. It was inflation economy, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:24.720 which are so close to the same for one and two, 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.959 and then the border. It gets so little coverage in 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:28.799 the news. It's hard for me to know how much 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.320 people care. I suppose you see these numbers from time 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.359 to time. Is the border on people's minds because we're 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.639 we're hearing from all kinds of different fronts that it's 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:40.960 the worst it's been in decades? Yeah, I think, Jack, 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.079 there's a There's two different things there too as well. 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.200 Number one is how much the media covers it or 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.560 doesn't cover it. I think if the media wanted to 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:50.560 cover it, they could have a story about what's happening 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.520 on the border of the lack of of kind of 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.880 efforts to to secure our southern border. You would probably 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.600 see that, you know, pretty often. The other thing I 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.160 think is that immigration is kind of a um as 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.000 an issue. Interestingly enough, it tends to correlate with the 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.280 state of the economy. So when the state of the 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.240 economy is perceived to be unsteady for whatever reason, immigration 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.000 tends to rise an issue as well, because people directly 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.000 relate uh you know, let's say, for example, competition for 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.600 labor supply with the state of the economy, and if 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:26.000 the economy is relatively weak or let's just say precariously, 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.040 there's the labor market is pretty strong right now. Anyone 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.720 who largely wants a job can probably find one. But 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.800 the problem is when you've got inflation running at levels 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.360 it's running at, people have a little bit of uncertainty 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.440 about the economy and about where it's headed. Some people 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.440 think we're actually headed for recession, and if that's the case, 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.320 then immigration becomes a more salient issue. So Jack, I 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.480 think what you're seeing is people express that concern about 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:53.040 immigration in part because of some unsteadiness we're seeing in 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.880 the economic numbers. And as you said, one and two, 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.120 issues one and two are the economy and inflation, So 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:00.920 we know where people's heads are at. The Republicans will 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.760 take back the House, and that's not that surprising historically 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.920 in recent cycles, that's just the way it works, um 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.040 And there are extra reasons that's going to be true 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.280 this time around. But as far as the presidency, and 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:13.680 I'm operating on the assumption Joe Biden is not going 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.040 to be the anominee in one way or another, is 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:20.200 there a chance for some sort of political reset of 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:25.640 some sort where we get because Biden wasn't elected for 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:29.000 any normal reason. He was elected because not Trump and 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.120 then Hillary and and and Trump were the two most 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:34.760 own popular candidates in our nation's history. So is there 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.240 a chance for some sort of I don't know, normal 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:42.360 like presidential election. I don't know, you know. I part 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.520 of me wants to wish we could get back to that, 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.440 you know, where where we actually had debates over things 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.880 like tax policy or what would happen in terms of 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.360 our policy around the world. I wonder if that um 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:59.200 trains left the station on the nature of our politics. Wow, 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.160 that's a guy like you, A serious guy like you, 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.760 and and an optimistic guy. I haven't talked to you 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.240 for several years now to say that, I find that 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.920 pretty striking. So well, it's it's a function I think 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.400 of who ends up running right and uh and and 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.600 who ends up being sort of involved in the contest. 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.479 I think if it's you know that there's a certain 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:23.560 category of politician whom if they ran for president, and 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.479 both sides kind of had nominees of that ilk, you 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.279 could see things going back. But the problem is, I 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.320 think as you think about, you know, who the leading 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.080 contenders might be on either side, I have great doubt 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.120 that you would see that, you know, sort of retro 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.520 kind of campaign. I think in some ways we're moving 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.800 into a new era. And by the way, it's not 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.080 just because of the candidates, it's because of how people 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.800 consume media now, right, And if you think about social media, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.159 social media has accelerated the way and the nature of 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.240 every news cycle, and it's so much easier for stories 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.440 to to catch on like wildfire than it was in 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.640 the day and age when you had some major television 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.760 networks and you had some big newspapers and that was 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.839 about it. So it's not just because of the candidates 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:07.599 that things have changed. It's also just because of the 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.839 nature of the consumption of media and how stories kind 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.880 of do or don't take off. Do you mean that 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:17.040 train has less left the station? For now or like permanently, 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.280 because I mean if I don't know, I don't know. 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.119 I mean, I I wish I could say it's for now, 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.880 but some of these trends are are not going away 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.440 anytime soon, right, I mean, do we see ourselves moving 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.680 away from a social media world? I don't know, do 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.080 we see ourselves? You know, candidates increasingly need to say 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.880 and do things that are, you know, sort of attention 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.279 grabbing in this era where people have very very short 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.279 attention spans, and so that adds to the likelihood that 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.200 you're gonna get candidates encouraged to run for these high 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:50.000 offices who are, you know, kind of more sensationalistic. I mean, 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.480 I you know, in my own campaign, I I really 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.000 try not to go there, you know. I try to 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.800 be reasonable and talk about the reasons why we need 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:00.280 better accountability for state spending in California and at the 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.400 sexiest issues. But for my kind of an office in 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.479 this kind of a campaign, I can do that. But 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.480 I know the pressures that are on friends and colleagues 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.240 who are running for other kinds of offices, and you know, 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.160 all the pressure, in my view is in the wrong 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.240 directions in terms of the kind of issue that they 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.520 need to engage in a win. I guarantee you would 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.120 raise more money today. You would raise more money a 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.720 day than you've raised in any day if you said, 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.000 you know who's a war criminal Joe Biden is a 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.760 war criminal. That would be retweeted I don't know how 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:28.720 many thousand times, and you'd raise the most money of 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:33.360 your career. Yeah. Unfortunately, my my tweet about the disability 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.200 insurance scandal did not quite ah make the make the 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.840 top ten list today. So no, you're you're absolutely right. 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:42.000 I think that there is a definite desire and an 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:46.040 intention sometimes that politicians feel in need to just say 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.000 wacky stuff because it's it does get a lot of attention, 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.480 you know. And that's not that's not the kind of 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:53.240 politics that I grew up in, but it is the 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:57.280 nature of our politics today and it is what drives um, 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.160 you know, uh sort of engagement and and the end 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.920 of the day, that's what politicians want. They want engagement. Yeah. Well, 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.600 I've been a listener reading a lot of Sarah Isger 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.440 of The Dispatch has been writing about this a lot, 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.120 that the changes in Yeah, and she she's been great 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.120 on this. The campaign finance reform that we thought would 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.960 make politics better have made it worse. And uh, having 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.840 having more small donations from people who just want to 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.119 see you say something crazy on Twitter or a cable 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.520 news show has not taken us the right direction. No, 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.200 I agree. I agree. It's too bad. It's really too bad. 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.520 Any chance that changes, any chance we go back to 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:34.480 some people are calling for the return of the smoke 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:36.920 filled rooms. You don't let the parties decide candidates and 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.920 that sort of thing. Well that you know that that 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.480 wasn't so great either, right, because it wasn't the kind 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.839 of process that we would hope, you know. I think 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.800 in America we would pride ourselves on transparency, on processes 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.000 where you understand kind of who comes out of it 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.599 and and and public voices can be heard and considered. 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.080 I do think if we had stronger political party and 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:01.880 that may sound strange because but the kinds of parties, 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.480 you know, the party at labels identifications are strong, But 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.600 the institutions of the political parties aren't strong anymore. No, no, no, 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.160 it's whoever whoever gets the nomination, all of a sudden 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.280 you adopt their policies. That's not the way it's supposed 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.480 to work. And it used to be that the party 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.360 stood for things and and candidates kind of you know, 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.200 would either adhere to that or not. But nowadays you 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.920 don't have that strength of association of the party anymore. 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.280 If you had a stronger political party mechanism, stronger Democratic 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.360 and Republican parties that might have more control, for example, 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:34.200 over presidential primary processes, you wouldn't have these long drawn 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:38.000 out primary fights that you know. Unfortunately many times end 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.280 up devolving into who can be the most liberal, who 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.679 can be the most most conservative, And I don't think 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.040 that generates presidential candidates at the end of the day 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.080 who are going to govern from from the middle out. 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.120 And I think ultimately that's probably what we need as 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.120 a country to get back to the kind of normalcy 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.280 you're talking about. Lanhe Chen knows what he's talking about 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.679 for all kinds of different reasons, including being involved at 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.439 the highest levels of major campaigns, and he's a candidate 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.840 for California State Controller. You were endorsed by the Chronicle, 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.120 Is that right? I wasn't endorsed by the Chronicle. I 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:12.080 had there was a column we read from. Yeah, it 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.240 was an opinion writer He basically said, hey, listen, one 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.480 position where you need where you need a watchdog. You know, 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:20.800 in government in California is a controller, and that's why 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.120 you probably want to think about electing a Republican. So 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.360 as I like to say, Jack, we need a we 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.400 need a watchdog in this office, not a lap dog. 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.160 There you go. That's pretty often, too often we've had that. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.920 That's pretty awesome when somebody in the chronicle San Francisco 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.320 Chronicle says, this is a Republican you need long each 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.960 and hey, thanks for your time today, appreciate it. That's 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.440 the most interesting thing I've heard today. A serious guy 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.120 like that, who doesn't say crazy stuff, just you know, 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.320 for fun. That train has left the station of us 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:56.800 having serious discussions. Wow, Armstrong one podcast, Jack. This is 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.520 roughly the equivalent of carrying around two honored in twenty 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.200 four slices of Bacon in your Body. Well wait, wait 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.200 a minute, regular, what bacon ways of majurement that we 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:12.120 all use? The Armstrong and Getting podcast. Here it on 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.880 the I Heart app wherever you listen to podcasts.