1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Let's welcome to the Armstrong and Getty Show. Long Hea Chen. 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: He's a candidate for California State Controller for one thing, 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: but we've been having him on for years. David and 4 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Diane Stephy fellow in American Public Policy Studies at the 5 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: Hoover Institution, the director of Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford University, 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: which is pretty impressive. Along he welcomed to the Armstrong 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: and Getty Show once again. It's good to be back 8 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: with you, guys. Thanks. Not about the details of the 9 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden thing, but don't you don't you think the um, 10 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: if there ever was a bloom on the rose, the 11 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: bloom is off the rows of the whole Joe Biden 12 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: brings us back to normalcy. Grown ups are in charge. 13 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: No more craziness. That's gone, right, Yeah, I mean I 14 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: think there's two reasons why it's gone, guys. Number one 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: is because of Biden's own, uh, you know, kind of 16 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: his own behavior in office. Just in terms of what 17 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: we're seeing from him as somebody who, um, you know, 18 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: sometimes it looks like it's unclear whether he understands exactly 19 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: what the nature of the challenges and whether it's because 20 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 1: he just doesn't pay much attention or because you know, 21 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: for whatever reason it might be, it does feel a 22 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: little bit like sometimes he doesn't grasp the gravity of 23 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: the situation on. Give you an example when he off 24 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: handedly says that Vladimir Putin's got to go. Uh, you know, 25 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: it means something when an American president says that. It's 26 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: not just a throwaway comment, and so you have to wonder, 27 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: you know, Joe, what's part of I think what made 28 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: Joe Biden appealing at some point in his career was 29 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 1: that he kind of just said what came to mind. 30 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: But that's not really something that in this situation, I think, 31 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: you know, serves him all that well. But the second 32 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: reason why the bloom is off the Rose guys, is 33 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: because of just the policy decisions that he's made and 34 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 1: the various things that he has said about you know 35 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: what it is that uh, you know, we have to 36 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: do with respect to all sorts of different issues, right, 37 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: massive economic stimulus that's resulting in big time inflation. Uh, 38 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: you know, various things we're seeing in domestic policy that 39 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: really are far left of center. When it comes to 40 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: what we expected, you know, we expected a moderate We 41 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: got a far left progressive, and so I think for 42 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: those reasons, people are kind of saying, Hi, this wasn't 43 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: exactly what we expected. Yeah, yeah, absolutely true. And I 44 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: wanted to get into policy since that's your wheelhouse. Uh, 45 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: is there anything that would launch Well? I did see 46 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: us up pull the other day that had immigration as 47 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: the third biggest priority of American voters. It was inflation economy, 48 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: which are so close to the same for one and two, 49 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 1: and then the border. It gets so little coverage in 50 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: the news. It's hard for me to know how much 51 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: people care. I suppose you see these numbers from time 52 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: to time. Is the border on people's minds because we're 53 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: we're hearing from all kinds of different fronts that it's 54 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: the worst it's been in decades? Yeah, I think, Jack, 55 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: there's a There's two different things there too as well. 56 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: Number one is how much the media covers it or 57 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: doesn't cover it. I think if the media wanted to 58 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: cover it, they could have a story about what's happening 59 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: on the border of the lack of of kind of 60 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: efforts to to secure our southern border. You would probably 61 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: see that, you know, pretty often. The other thing I 62 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: think is that immigration is kind of a um as 63 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: an issue. Interestingly enough, it tends to correlate with the 64 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: state of the economy. So when the state of the 65 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: economy is perceived to be unsteady for whatever reason, immigration 66 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: tends to rise an issue as well, because people directly 67 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: relate uh you know, let's say, for example, competition for 68 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: labor supply with the state of the economy, and if 69 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: the economy is relatively weak or let's just say precariously, 70 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: there's the labor market is pretty strong right now. Anyone 71 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: who largely wants a job can probably find one. But 72 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: the problem is when you've got inflation running at levels 73 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: it's running at, people have a little bit of uncertainty 74 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: about the economy and about where it's headed. Some people 75 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: think we're actually headed for recession, and if that's the case, 76 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: then immigration becomes a more salient issue. So Jack, I 77 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: think what you're seeing is people express that concern about 78 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: immigration in part because of some unsteadiness we're seeing in 79 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: the economic numbers. And as you said, one and two, 80 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: issues one and two are the economy and inflation, So 81 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: we know where people's heads are at. The Republicans will 82 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: take back the House, and that's not that surprising historically 83 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: in recent cycles, that's just the way it works, um 84 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: And there are extra reasons that's going to be true 85 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: this time around. But as far as the presidency, and 86 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: I'm operating on the assumption Joe Biden is not going 87 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: to be the anominee in one way or another, is 88 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: there a chance for some sort of political reset of 89 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: some sort where we get because Biden wasn't elected for 90 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: any normal reason. He was elected because not Trump and 91 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: then Hillary and and and Trump were the two most 92 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: own popular candidates in our nation's history. So is there 93 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: a chance for some sort of I don't know, normal 94 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: like presidential election. I don't know, you know. I part 95 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: of me wants to wish we could get back to that, 96 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, where where we actually had debates over things 97 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: like tax policy or what would happen in terms of 98 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: our policy around the world. I wonder if that um 99 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: trains left the station on the nature of our politics. Wow, 100 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: that's a guy like you, A serious guy like you, 101 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: and and an optimistic guy. I haven't talked to you 102 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: for several years now to say that, I find that 103 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: pretty striking. So well, it's it's a function I think 104 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: of who ends up running right and uh and and 105 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: who ends up being sort of involved in the contest. 106 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: I think if it's you know that there's a certain 107 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: category of politician whom if they ran for president, and 108 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: both sides kind of had nominees of that ilk, you 109 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: could see things going back. But the problem is, I 110 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: think as you think about, you know, who the leading 111 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: contenders might be on either side, I have great doubt 112 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: that you would see that, you know, sort of retro 113 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: kind of campaign. I think in some ways we're moving 114 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: into a new era. And by the way, it's not 115 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: just because of the candidates, it's because of how people 116 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: consume media now, right, And if you think about social media, 117 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: social media has accelerated the way and the nature of 118 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: every news cycle, and it's so much easier for stories 119 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: to to catch on like wildfire than it was in 120 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: the day and age when you had some major television 121 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: networks and you had some big newspapers and that was 122 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: about it. So it's not just because of the candidates 123 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: that things have changed. It's also just because of the 124 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: nature of the consumption of media and how stories kind 125 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: of do or don't take off. Do you mean that 126 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: train has less left the station? For now or like permanently, 127 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: because I mean if I don't know, I don't know. 128 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,119 Speaker 1: I mean, I I wish I could say it's for now, 129 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: but some of these trends are are not going away 130 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: anytime soon, right, I mean, do we see ourselves moving 131 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: away from a social media world? I don't know, do 132 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: we see ourselves? You know, candidates increasingly need to say 133 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: and do things that are, you know, sort of attention 134 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: grabbing in this era where people have very very short 135 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: attention spans, and so that adds to the likelihood that 136 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna get candidates encouraged to run for these high 137 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: offices who are, you know, kind of more sensationalistic. I mean, 138 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: I you know, in my own campaign, I I really 139 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: try not to go there, you know. I try to 140 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: be reasonable and talk about the reasons why we need 141 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: better accountability for state spending in California and at the 142 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: sexiest issues. But for my kind of an office in 143 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: this kind of a campaign, I can do that. But 144 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: I know the pressures that are on friends and colleagues 145 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: who are running for other kinds of offices, and you know, 146 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: all the pressure, in my view is in the wrong 147 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: directions in terms of the kind of issue that they 148 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: need to engage in a win. I guarantee you would 149 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: raise more money today. You would raise more money a 150 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: day than you've raised in any day if you said, 151 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: you know who's a war criminal Joe Biden is a 152 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: war criminal. That would be retweeted I don't know how 153 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: many thousand times, and you'd raise the most money of 154 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: your career. Yeah. Unfortunately, my my tweet about the disability 155 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: insurance scandal did not quite ah make the make the 156 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: top ten list today. So no, you're you're absolutely right. 157 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: I think that there is a definite desire and an 158 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: intention sometimes that politicians feel in need to just say 159 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: wacky stuff because it's it does get a lot of attention, 160 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: you know. And that's not that's not the kind of 161 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: politics that I grew up in, but it is the 162 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: nature of our politics today and it is what drives um, 163 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: you know, uh sort of engagement and and the end 164 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: of the day, that's what politicians want. They want engagement. Yeah. Well, 165 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: I've been a listener reading a lot of Sarah Isger 166 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: of The Dispatch has been writing about this a lot, 167 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: that the changes in Yeah, and she she's been great 168 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: on this. The campaign finance reform that we thought would 169 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: make politics better have made it worse. And uh, having 170 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: having more small donations from people who just want to 171 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,119 Speaker 1: see you say something crazy on Twitter or a cable 172 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: news show has not taken us the right direction. No, 173 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. It's too bad. It's really too bad. 174 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: Any chance that changes, any chance we go back to 175 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: some people are calling for the return of the smoke 176 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: filled rooms. You don't let the parties decide candidates and 177 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Well that you know that that 178 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: wasn't so great either, right, because it wasn't the kind 179 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 1: of process that we would hope, you know. I think 180 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: in America we would pride ourselves on transparency, on processes 181 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: where you understand kind of who comes out of it 182 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,599 Speaker 1: and and and public voices can be heard and considered. 183 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: I do think if we had stronger political party and 184 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: that may sound strange because but the kinds of parties, 185 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: you know, the party at labels identifications are strong, But 186 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: the institutions of the political parties aren't strong anymore. No, no, no, 187 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: it's whoever whoever gets the nomination, all of a sudden 188 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: you adopt their policies. That's not the way it's supposed 189 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: to work. And it used to be that the party 190 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: stood for things and and candidates kind of you know, 191 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: would either adhere to that or not. But nowadays you 192 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: don't have that strength of association of the party anymore. 193 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: If you had a stronger political party mechanism, stronger Democratic 194 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: and Republican parties that might have more control, for example, 195 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: over presidential primary processes, you wouldn't have these long drawn 196 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: out primary fights that you know. Unfortunately many times end 197 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: up devolving into who can be the most liberal, who 198 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: can be the most most conservative, And I don't think 199 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: that generates presidential candidates at the end of the day 200 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: who are going to govern from from the middle out. 201 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: And I think ultimately that's probably what we need as 202 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: a country to get back to the kind of normalcy 203 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: you're talking about. Lanhe Chen knows what he's talking about 204 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: for all kinds of different reasons, including being involved at 205 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: the highest levels of major campaigns, and he's a candidate 206 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: for California State Controller. You were endorsed by the Chronicle, 207 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: Is that right? I wasn't endorsed by the Chronicle. I 208 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: had there was a column we read from. Yeah, it 209 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: was an opinion writer He basically said, hey, listen, one 210 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: position where you need where you need a watchdog. You know, 211 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: in government in California is a controller, and that's why 212 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: you probably want to think about electing a Republican. So 213 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: as I like to say, Jack, we need a we 214 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: need a watchdog in this office, not a lap dog. 215 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: There you go. That's pretty often, too often we've had that. 216 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: That's pretty awesome when somebody in the chronicle San Francisco 217 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: Chronicle says, this is a Republican you need long each 218 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: and hey, thanks for your time today, appreciate it. That's 219 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: the most interesting thing I've heard today. A serious guy 220 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: like that, who doesn't say crazy stuff, just you know, 221 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: for fun. That train has left the station of us 222 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: having serious discussions. Wow, Armstrong one podcast, Jack. This is 223 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: roughly the equivalent of carrying around two honored in twenty 224 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: four slices of Bacon in your Body. Well wait, wait 225 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: a minute, regular, what bacon ways of majurement that we 226 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: all use? The Armstrong and Getting podcast. Here it on 227 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: the I Heart app wherever you listen to podcasts.