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Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. To lose someone whom

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Speaker 1: you love is one of the toughest things that a

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Speaker 1: human being will ever endure. I know that for a

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Speaker 1: fact because I've had loved ones that have passed on,

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Speaker 1: and I've also been present when I have had to

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Speaker 1: tell people that their loved ones have passed on. But

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Speaker 1: you know, some say that next to a death of

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Speaker 1: a loved one, that a divorce is one of the

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Speaker 1: most brutal things a human being can go through. You

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Speaker 1: tie a lot of emotion up in it because you

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Speaker 1: see perhaps a failure, you see an end to things

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Speaker 1: that you thought had great possibilities, and there it just

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Speaker 1: crumbles right before you. And of course the really sad

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Speaker 1: part is not necessarily going your own way from the

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Speaker 1: person that you thought you were going to spend the

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Speaker 1: rest of your life with. But if you have children,

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Speaker 1: they're left in the wake many times to be battered

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Speaker 1: up against the metaphorical rocks of life. Today, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about one such child. And this case is

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Speaker 1: special to me because it's a case that I covered

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Speaker 1: early on in my media and it impacted me, I

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Speaker 1: think probably like no other. Today we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the murder of Dylan red Wine. I'm Joseph Scott

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Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Body Packers, Dave. You know when

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Speaker 1: you're when you're a little boy, and you and I

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Speaker 1: used to be little boys. We spend our time playing

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Speaker 1: and having adventures, getting together with our friends, tossing the

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Speaker 1: ball around, some of the coolest times that you can experience.

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Speaker 1: But I know that for myself, I'm I am a

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Speaker 1: child of divorce. And you, yeah, and you pay a

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Speaker 1: price for it, don't you. I mean, it's not just

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Speaker 1: mom and dad that might pay a price, you know,

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Speaker 1: us kids that have been through it pay a price

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Speaker 1: as well. And sometimes those those things go unseen for

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Speaker 1: years and years, and they sometimes manifest themselves later on

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Speaker 1: in life.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting how most children that grow up in a

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Speaker 2: nuclear home where divorce is not president. You just have mom,

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Speaker 2: dad and the kids, and all the children have different

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Speaker 2: stories to tell about their own upbringing based on the

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Speaker 2: when they were born, whether they're first born, middle last.

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Speaker 3: And it's the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Happens when if you're a child of divorce, except now

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Speaker 2: you extend it out because whereas in a family that

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Speaker 2: is just mom, dad and the kids, they argue about

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Speaker 2: the attention they got, or mom loved you more, Dad

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Speaker 2: loved liked you more, of that whole thing. Well, now

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Speaker 2: it's expanded because now you've got mom and dad, plus

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Speaker 2: oftentimes they're extended spouses and other half brothers and half sisters.

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Speaker 3: That it becomes a big fray.

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Speaker 2: And some kids have a way of maneuvering through it

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Speaker 2: better than others.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, i'd agree you. And it's like a race

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Speaker 1: you're you're jocking for. I never know what validation actually means.

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Speaker 1: People use that term all the time. I never really

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Speaker 1: know what it is.

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Speaker 3: Oh, butocke Yeah, approval, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've always thought

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Speaker 3: of that. We all want to approval.

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Speaker 2: We want it from our we want it from our

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Speaker 2: mom and dad first and foremost. And the fact, you

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Speaker 2: know what I wondered, Joan in this particular case, because

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Speaker 2: I've covered it too, when when it first began as

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Speaker 2: a missing person, what happened to this thirteen year old kid,

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Speaker 2: A thirteen year old boy, Dylan red Wine goes to

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Speaker 2: visit his dad. Now his mom and dad were divorced,

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Speaker 2: and Dylan did not want to go. That was made

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Speaker 2: pretty public fairly early in this whole case, but it

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Speaker 2: was Thanksgiving. He had to go there to be with

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Speaker 2: his dad for Thanksgiving. It was court ordered, so Dylan

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Speaker 2: red Wine went. He arrives at the airport in Colorado.

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Speaker 2: Dad picks him up. We have CCTV coverage. That's how

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Speaker 2: intense this case got. We saw him at Walmart, We

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Speaker 2: saw them at McDonald's. You don't see them being overly

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Speaker 2: warm with one another. There was a little distance while

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Speaker 2: they were walking, but you couldn't really see a whole lot.

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Speaker 2: But the bottom line always being the bottom line. Dylan

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Speaker 2: red Wine did reach out to a friend and was

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Speaker 2: going to meet him the next morning. Now he's at

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Speaker 2: dad's house. And one thing to point out, Mark RedWine,

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Speaker 2: the father. His home had burned about six months earlier,

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Speaker 2: and it had recently been remodeled, and this was the

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Speaker 2: first time that Dylan had really been there since it

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Speaker 2: had been remodeled. And that means something, by the way,

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Speaker 2: as we go further into this case, forensically speaking, So

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Speaker 2: Dylan red Wine is at this house. It wasn't unfamiliar territory.

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Speaker 2: He did have friends there and he called a friend.

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Speaker 2: He reached out to a friend in the evening and

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Speaker 2: they made plans for the next morning at six thirty am.

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Speaker 2: They were going to get to get now something thirteen

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Speaker 2: year old boys. Do you know when you're thirteen and

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Speaker 2: you've got the woods open area, you can get out

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Speaker 2: there and just I know I did it, but oh

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Speaker 2: that's an age, you know what as a man now,

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Speaker 2: I want to make sure. I wanted to make sure

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Speaker 2: my boys got it, and I want to make sure

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Speaker 2: my grandson gets it that there is something beautiful like

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Speaker 2: going out in the woods at thirteen and challenging yourself

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Speaker 2: to you know, what can you do.

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Speaker 1: I'm in a tree trying trying to get back without

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Speaker 1: an open wound, bleeding.

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Speaker 3: Right, get in trouble. But you you're usually you have

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Speaker 3: a knife though, just in case.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you have a knife. You're gonna you know,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna chop wood or yeah, uh, you know, do

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Speaker 1: some whittling, or you're going to play army.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Just an adventure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It is a grand adventure. And you

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Speaker 1: you look at that and you think and and for

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Speaker 1: kids of divorce, that's uh, that's the ultimate Uh, that's

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Speaker 1: the ultimate fantasy world, isn't it. Because you can get

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Speaker 1: out there and you can.

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Speaker 3: I never put that together, Joe, and you.

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Speaker 1: Can, Yeah, you can escape. You can escape from the

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Speaker 1: tension that's in the house. And interesting just kind of

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Speaker 1: a little here. I used to be. I used to

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Speaker 1: watch the show Inside the Actors Studio where the guy

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Speaker 1: would interview that James Lipton. He's passed on now, but

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Speaker 1: he would interview these actors and there was one thing

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Speaker 1: that he would always start off with in these interviews,

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Speaker 1: and he would say, we're going to come to a

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Speaker 1: common theme now that that is a thread that runs

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Speaker 1: through all of our guests. Here. You are a child

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Speaker 1: of divorce, and I would think about that and I thought, wow,

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Speaker 1: you know, where does some of this you know, because

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Speaker 1: I don't really know that many actors. I've got some

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Speaker 1: friends that are but not close friends, but you know,

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Speaker 1: you think about where do they get all this raw

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Speaker 1: emotion from and all these things? And I know as

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Speaker 1: a divorce kid, there is a lot of raw emotion.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff that you have to work out,

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Speaker 1: work through in your mind. And I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: some are you know, are drawn toward the toward the

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Speaker 1: theater because just for a moment, you can escape whatever

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Speaker 1: your perception of your reality is at that moment and

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Speaker 1: at Thanksgiving, imagine Dylan having to be away from the

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Speaker 1: safety of his home with his mother, where he wanted

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Speaker 1: to be, where he wanted to be.

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Speaker 2: And it's joe interesting to point out not only did

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Speaker 2: he not want to be with his dad, the last

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Speaker 2: few times they had been together had been very tension filled,

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Speaker 2: to the point where Dylan no longer felt comfortable around

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Speaker 2: his dad. Plus, Dylan and Corey Corey is Dylan's brother,

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Speaker 2: they had found pictures on a computer of their dad. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this divorce was already ugly, Okay, just throwing it out.

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Speaker 2: It was already ugly, and apparently Dylan and Corey both

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Speaker 2: had seen some legal documents that painted a very direct

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Speaker 2: picture of what was being claimed by their dad by

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Speaker 2: their mom. But it was the pictures they saw on

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Speaker 2: this computer that actually made them realize, this is not

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Speaker 2: a guy we want to be around. And Dylan did

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Speaker 2: not want to be there, and he had this in

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Speaker 2: the back of his head. And by the way, Mark

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Speaker 2: knew it.

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Speaker 3: He knew it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the father had a complete and total awareness. And

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Speaker 1: I just so you know, you know, I made reference

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Speaker 1: to how and I don't want to make this about me,

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Speaker 1: but just to kind of give you the background when

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Speaker 1: I was asked to cover this case, and I was actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, I cover cases on Court TV. I cover

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Speaker 1: cases on a Long Crime network, and I have friends

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Speaker 1: at both places whom I care for deeply, and I'll

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Speaker 1: be friends with many of them for life. They asked me,

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Speaker 1: Long Crime asked me to cover this case, and they

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Speaker 1: send you this kind of this big packet, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're going through it and when you begin to

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Speaker 1: look at the notes of what you're going to cover,

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Speaker 1: and I begin to read through the scene, and I'm thinking, okay,

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Speaker 1: missing young boy remains have been found in you know,

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Speaker 1: two separate locations. They're skeletonized, he's missing for a time.

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Speaker 1: Oh and then there's these pictures and I'm thinking, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: well what are the pictures? And then I had to

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Speaker 1: do a double take when I began to read about them,

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Speaker 1: because you know, these pictures. When you're thinking about forensic psychology,

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Speaker 1: there are certain roles that people think about from a

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Speaker 1: sexual standpoint. People have I don't want to call them

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Speaker 1: call them predispositions. That's not necessarily what they do, but

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Speaker 1: they are what are referred to as paraphilias, and there

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Speaker 1: is a particular paraphilia that is out there that's actually

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Speaker 1: called corporophilia, and it is a fascination. I hate to

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Speaker 1: say this on my own show, but it's a fascination

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Speaker 1: with feces, and particular human feces. And if you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: you're a divorced kid, you're scared, You've got tension between

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Speaker 1: your parents, and you travel along with your brother Corey,

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Speaker 1: to your father's house months prior to your disappearance, and

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Speaker 1: you're digging through your dad's computer, as you had mentioned,

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Speaker 1: and you come across a file and you look at

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Speaker 1: that file. You're in the bathroom with your brother. The

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Speaker 1: door is locked, and you click on it and there

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Speaker 1: are images of your father dressed in women's lingerie with

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Speaker 1: makeup on and human feces spread all over his face,

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Speaker 1: eating from a diaper. Dave, have you ever heard of

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Speaker 1: someone saying I almost died of embarrassment? You ever heard

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Speaker 1: that phrase before?

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Speaker 3: I've used it before. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I actually you're talking about theater and actors a minute

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Speaker 2: ago and I was thinking, okay, now your name in

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Speaker 2: my life?

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Speaker 3: Did you get my bio as? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And it was during one of those times where I

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Speaker 2: thought I was going to be so embarrassed I was

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Speaker 2: going to die.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it does happen. And look there we commit

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Speaker 1: any number of faux pause in life, you know, things

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Speaker 1: we say things we shouldn't do, or we exit the

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Speaker 1: bathroom and toilet paper is hanging out of the backside

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Speaker 1: of our pants, are stuck to our shoe, or we've

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Speaker 1: got spinach in our teeth, or you know, or in

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Speaker 1: my case, when I saw a friend of mine I

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Speaker 1: hadn't seen in years and years, this lady that I

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Speaker 1: was dear friends with when I was a child, and

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Speaker 1: she she I saw her and she said, oh, I'm pregnant.

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Speaker 1: I said, I know, and she said I just found

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Speaker 1: out yesterday. And so the meaning is is that she

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Speaker 1: had physically changed greatly and I hadn't seen her in years.

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Speaker 3: So oh she was that. Okay, I got she had.

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Speaker 1: Increased in size, and I felt, you know, I turned

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Speaker 1: fifty shades of red. And it was very embarrassed for

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Speaker 1: having said that, And you know, I followed it up

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Speaker 1: with telling her that I love uh, that I thought

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Speaker 1: that she looked lovely, and of course I'm I'm tripping

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Speaker 1: over my tongue. The entire time. But when you get

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Speaker 1: when you get to the degree that Dylan's father was at,

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Speaker 1: particularly with these this paraphilia that he engaged in, and

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Speaker 1: you document it photographically, you save it, You save these

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Speaker 1: images so that I guess that you can live out

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Speaker 1: this kind of fantastical life when it's not going on,

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Speaker 1: and then suddenly your children find out about it. I

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Speaker 1: would think that that would be, I don't know, an

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Speaker 1: impetus for a rage field event.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps there was an interesting twist on this that the

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Speaker 2: boys Corey and Mark our Dylan. Rather Corey and Dylan

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Speaker 2: are the boys. They kept it to themselves at first.

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Speaker 2: They didn't immediately challenge Dad. They didn't immediately go to

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Speaker 2: him and say what are you doing?

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Speaker 3: Who are you in it? They held it. They didn't

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Speaker 3: know what to do. I mean their kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how's a kid going to know what to say?

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Speaker 2: So imagine here's Dylan. And by the way, Dylan and

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Speaker 2: his father were together on a trip to Boston to

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Speaker 2: play baseball. It was a little league thing that Dylan

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Speaker 2: was a part of. And it was on this trip

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Speaker 2: when Mark, Dylan and Corey both had been talking about

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Speaker 2: confronting their father about these pictures, and Dylan apparently had

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Speaker 2: decided he was going to use this trip to Boston

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Speaker 2: to confront him. He texted, Corey, send me the pictures.

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Speaker 2: Corey didn't send him the pictures. I don't know whether

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Speaker 2: he decided I'm not going to let Dylan do it.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it. Corey didn't send the pictures Dylan.

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Speaker 2: He sent these pictures to their dad on this trip

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Speaker 2: and he wrote some pretty they were from an insulting standpoint,

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Speaker 2: they were pretty awesome. I don't realize I don't remember

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Speaker 2: how old Corey is. Dylan was thirteen, but Corey wrote

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Speaker 2: you are what you eat to his dad with these

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Speaker 2: pictures that he showed him. So now on this trip

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Speaker 2: to Boston, Mark RedWine realizes that both of his sons,

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Speaker 2: or at least Corey, knows about the pictures because Corey

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Speaker 2: sent them to him. All I could think of is

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Speaker 2: that at some point in time you mentioned that it's

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Speaker 2: an actual issue. It's a I didn't realize that, Joe.

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Speaker 2: I thought, you know, there's all kinds of perversions and

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Speaker 2: things that people get into, but apparently, you know, he

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Speaker 2: was in the closet with this. Didn't want anybody to

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Speaker 2: know about it, and you've got pictures of him wearing

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Speaker 2: a red bra makeup and a diaper filled with Indian food,

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Speaker 2: you know, eaten by a child burst. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 2: just it boggles my mind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's actually horrible. I've seen not just the

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Speaker 1: crime scene photos, but I've seen these seen these images

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Speaker 1: that are you know that that are essentially the little

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Speaker 1: spark that created the flame for everything. And here's an

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Speaker 1: interesting bit of forensic data that arose because there's a

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Speaker 1: whole line of texting messages that went through that kind

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Speaker 1: of ran up the spine of this whole case. When Corey,

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Speaker 1: the older brother, sent that text to his father, Interestingly enough,

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Speaker 1: Mark wrote back and responded to Corey and yeah, and

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Speaker 1: he said, uh, you know, and this is after, uh,

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Speaker 1: after Corey had told him that he's a coward, that

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Speaker 1: he was nothing more than a sperm donor. And then

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Speaker 1: Mark actually texts back to Corey the father and says, uh,

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Speaker 1: telling him not to hurt his brother. Now he's telling

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Speaker 1: the older brother not to hurt the younger brother. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I guess he's he's he's saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: don't show him or you know, don't show him these photos,

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Speaker 1: thinking that Corey's only won't see him. But you know,

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Speaker 1: going to what you had said earlier, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: kind of disconnecting these these follow up visits that he

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Speaker 1: was having. Dylan had already seen him, right, This child

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Speaker 1: already had these images, you know, in his mind.

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Speaker 2: And that's why I ask you, Joe, because you've covered

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Speaker 2: this more. I thought I had covered it a lot

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Speaker 2: until I looked at what you've done with this case.

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Speaker 2: And I hate it for you because I've had nightmares

294
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Speaker 2: about this one. But when I saw this, and again,

295
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,959
Speaker 2: my brother and I were he's two years older than

296
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Speaker 2: I am, when my parents were going through a divorce.

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Speaker 2: And then it's not just the divorce, it's the things

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Speaker 2: that happened after the divorce. And that's what we're dealing

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Speaker 2: with here, is the aftermath. Even though mom and dad

300
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Speaker 2: didn't seem to do a good job of keeping the

301
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Speaker 2: boys uninvolved in the divorce, they were very involved. They

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Speaker 2: knew everything that was going on. They're old enough to know,

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Speaker 2: I guess. But when I believe, based on what I

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Speaker 2: have seen, that Mark red Wine actually believed, Yes, Corey

305
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Speaker 2: has these, don't share them with your little brother. Don't

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Speaker 2: hurt him. Let's keep this between you and me and

307
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Speaker 2: we'll deal with it. He was trying to save face.

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Speaker 2: I thought all the while, he doesn't know that Dylan

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Speaker 2: has seen these pictures and actually wants to confront him

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Speaker 2: about them.

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Speaker 3: But they had.

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Speaker 2: Already been having a bad time together, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: So was do you think that their relationship was so

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Speaker 2: off kilter that Mark RedWine the father didn't realize that

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Speaker 2: Dylan red Wine not only saw the pictures but had

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Speaker 2: formulated his own opinion and that was what was causing

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Speaker 2: the friction in the relationship. Was he so deluded as

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Speaker 2: to think I can turn Dylan to be back on

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Speaker 2: my side in this divorce and you know, we'll just

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Speaker 2: fight it that way.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 1: I think that at this point in Tom, you know,

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Speaker 1: probably Mark RedWine realized that he had crossed the rubicon

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Speaker 1: with this, and I think that more than likely he's

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Speaker 1: trying to understand and figure out what he should do next.

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Speaker 1: I think that along with this comes this this level

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Speaker 1: of humiliation and concurrently anger, and he's going to strike out.

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Speaker 1: Remember that, you know he had been texting you had

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Speaker 1: mentioned the Boston going to Boston for baseball. That was

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Speaker 1: back on August the fifth, twenty twelve. It's November the eighteenth.

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Speaker 1: Remember you talked about Thanksgiving. It's November the eighteenth. He's

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Speaker 1: had to make a trip to his dad. This is

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Speaker 1: Dylan by himself, and he arrives at his dad. The

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Speaker 1: last time he's known to be alive is November the eighteenth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twelve. So you've got all of this time August

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Speaker 1: to November for all of the stuff to bubble up,

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Speaker 1: and who knows what's going on from a communication standpoint

338
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Speaker 1: during that period of time. Is communication becoming less frequent?

339
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Speaker 1: Do you have you know, angry messages flying back and forth,

340
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Speaker 1: what's being set on the phone for one another? And

341
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Speaker 1: so all of this plays into trying to determine where

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Speaker 1: Dylan is at this point in time. You know, once

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Speaker 1: he goes missing on November the eighteenth, and he's under

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Speaker 1: the care of his father, you know, the dad, Mark RedWine,

345
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Speaker 1: says he had left to go out and run errands,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, you know, when he got home he

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Speaker 1: said that, well, you know, Dylan wasn't there. He wasn't

348
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Speaker 1: he wasn't there, couldn't find him anywhere. And so that's

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Speaker 1: that's troubling. There was some activity on Dylan's phone. I

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Speaker 1: think probably the last phone activity was about nine pm

351
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Speaker 1: on November the eighteenth, and you know, who knows who

352
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Speaker 1: was actually using the phone at that point in time

353
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Speaker 1: to communicate with his friend. You know, Dylan was supposed

354
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Speaker 1: to go meet up with his buddy, and of course

355
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Speaker 1: that that never happened.

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Speaker 2: I would like to point out Cory RedWine is actually

357
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Speaker 2: several years older than Dylan. Cory red Wine actually was

358
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Speaker 2: twenty years old, give or take when when this was

359
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Speaker 2: going on.

360
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Speaker 1: Yeah, he reached that age of emancipation where he if

361
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Speaker 1: he doesn't want to go to dad's house, he mightn't

362
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Speaker 1: have to go.

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Speaker 2: Well, I looked at it because I was wondering why,

364
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Speaker 2: you know, why is it? Because that that had always

365
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 2: troubled me, And I was like, wait a minute. He

366
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 2: was considerably older, and that's a that's a big That's

367
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Speaker 2: also why he was so confrontational with his dad. And

368
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 2: it also makes sense as to why Mark would address

369
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Speaker 2: him almost as as a peer, as an adult, saying,

370
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Speaker 2: don't hurt your little brother, but you know, seeing him

371
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Speaker 2: as much younger, not realizing that Dylan's the one that

372
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Speaker 2: found the photos to start with, and told Corey about them.

373
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Speaker 2: But now you've got the conference, the discussion where he's

374
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Speaker 2: we've got the text messages from Dylan to his friend

375
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Speaker 2: the evening before the next morning, Mark claims he goes

376
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Speaker 2: out to run errands and when he got home, Dylan

377
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: was gone. That's the scenario that he played out and

378
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 2: stayed with. This is where the world of forensics foggles

379
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,880
Speaker 2: my mind, Joe, It really does, because I had no idea.

380
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Speaker 2: I had no idea of what you guys are capable

381
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Speaker 2: of figuring out, not just the next day, the next week,

382
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Speaker 2: the next month.

383
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Speaker 3: But months and months. I mean, what.

384
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Speaker 2: Can still be found out, what's left behind. There is

385
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Speaker 2: no perfect crime.

386
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: No, no, there's not. There is no perfect crime. You

387
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: can't do anything in a vacuum. And I, you know,

388
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Speaker 1: I always reflect back. I know of references before you

389
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: know where the in the Book of Genesis where you know,

390
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: you know, God calls out the cane and says, you know,

391
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: tells Caine, you know, your brother's blood cries out to

392
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: me from the ground. And in this particular case, you've

393
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 1: got Dylan's blood is actually found within the home and

394
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: it's not Later reports forensically indicate that it is it

395
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: is apparently not to the level or volume that would

396
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: necessarily be an event that is consistent with incompatibility with life.

397
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: You know, where you've just got a tremendous amount of

398
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: blood that's there that maybe there was an attempt to

399
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: clean up, but they found They found some on a

400
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: coffee table, they found some on on on on a sofa,

401
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 1: there was actually some beneath the carpet. And interestingly enough,

402
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 1: it was a dog that found the blood, you know,

403
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: with in the home, and dogs are so fascinating. You know,

404
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: you talk about us as forensic investigators, but you know

405
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: when you have an animal at your disposal that has

406
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: this incredible all factory I call it an all factory spectrum.

407
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: I know that people that are working optimology will probably

408
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: laugh about that, but that's what I refer to it

409
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: as it's a spectrum of smell that they have that

410
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: we we as humans can't even begin to touch. And

411
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: they are especially trained and on a side that folks

412
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: might not know. When I worked worked with a medical examiner,

413
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: we would have a lady that would come by periodically

414
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: and she would go back into our decomp area and

415
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: she had rags that she would soak up decomp fluid

416
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: out of the trays where the body sat and seal

417
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: them and then take take those rags out into the

418
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: woods and smear the trees with decomp fluid to train

419
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: her dogs with so that they would know what decomposing

420
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: human remnant smelt like. And so these dogs are trained.

421
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: You've got two separate groups of them. You've got them

422
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: that will track the living. Okay, you think bloodhounds and

423
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: those sorts of things, and then you have couldaver dogs.

424
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: And so what's considered to be a cadaver dog, Well, postmortem,

425
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: there has to be some level of decay that's there,

426
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: because it's on a different all factory spectrum, if you will.

427
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: And they hit on these things. They can even pick

428
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: up on the smell. Blood actually has has a foul

429
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: odor in and of itself even as it decomposes, and

430
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: so they'll hit along that spectrum and they'll be able

431
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: to track. But just within the house alone, they found

432
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: Dylan's Dylan's blood. And here's the thing we're talking about.

433
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: This is not like this would have been necessarily old

434
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: old blood, because what did you say in the beginning day,

435
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: this man's house had burned, it had been renovated, so

436
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: this sample that would have been in there would have

437
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 1: been something that probably would have been placed down in

438
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: that area or would have been introduced into that environment

439
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: post renovation, post fire. So that narrows it down. Because

440
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: the fire, if I remember, took place like back in

441
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: March of twenty twelve, and Dylan goes missing November the twelfth,

442
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: and you're left, You're left wondering, well, why would you

443
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: have multiple spots of this child's blood in this home

444
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: that you know he does it. He's not domiciled there,

445
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: he doesn't live there all the time, so you know

446
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: you can explain it. I mean, I've had a spontaneous

447
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: bloody nose over the course of my life. Heck, I've

448
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: I've busted my head on different things, and you know,

449
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: had an open bleeding wound. Yet that does happen, and certainly,

450
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: you know, being a qualified former little boy, I know

451
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: that I have spouted blood any number of ways. But

452
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: you know it from an investigative standpoint, how do you

453
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: get past that? This is one of those moments in

454
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: time where you have to ask bigger questions. And one

455
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: of the things that we do know this little boy

456
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: was nowhere in that house. But something tells me the

457
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: dogs are going to play a key role in discovering

458
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: diligre Lane Dave. I think if I ever do a podcast,

459
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: maybe as an adjunct to two Body Bags, where we

460
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 1: just do a little separate one, I think I might

461
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: use the title corpus DELECTI. I've always liked that term.

462
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: It comes from the Latin and it means the body

463
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: of the crime, but many times it is it is

464
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: in fact the body. And there's been a lot of

465
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: people that have said, you can't prosecute a homicide without

466
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: a body. And I think that for investigators in the

467
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: Dylan RedWine case, they were wondering if I think that

468
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: they suspected something was up, but they knew that they

469
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: had to find this child's body if they were ever

470
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: going to move forward with a case, and certainly moving

471
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: forward with out a body is a problem.

472
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: So Dylan goes missing November nineteenth, twenty twelve. They don't

473
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: find him. There was weather situations to deal with with

474
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 2: regard to being able to put out a search for him.

475
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 2: It wasn't until the following year in twenty thirteen when

476
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: and it was the femur, but it was both femurs, right, yes, yeah,

477
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: Now what are the odds of finding that, you know,

478
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 2: something so specific legbones? Yeah, without finding everything, it just

479
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 2: seems odd.

480
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of does to me too.

481
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 3: But that's what they found in twenty thirteen.

482
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was actually in June. So this is going

483
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: to be after everything is thought. Remember we're in a

484
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: higher elevation in Colorado. It's to say that that Colorado

485
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: winners of brutal is certainly an understatement. It's terrifying that weather,

486
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, during those periods of time, right, and you

487
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: know when Dylan went missing, they were right on the

488
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: cusp of that moment in time. I think that they

489
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: had already had some snowfall when Dylan had missed, had

490
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: gone missing back in twelve. But moving forward, you know,

491
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: you have to get out beyond that period the thaw

492
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: before you're going to find anything. And what did occur

493
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: is that I think it was roughly ten miles away

494
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: from Mark Redwine's home that the left and the right

495
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 1: femurs are actually found.

496
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 2: So if you and never found on a road, Joey, Yeah,

497
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: that was odd. They found it eight miles from his

498
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: house eight miles from his house. They find the bones,

499
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: but they're on a road. Why would they find bones

500
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 2: on a road in June.

501
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so that to me, many times, if temperature drops, okay,

502
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: you'll have the body that will go into it won't

503
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: stop decomposing, but it will slow the decompositional process down

504
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: a bit, particularly if temperatures at a high elevation really

505
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: start to dip. And so they could have been deposited

506
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: off of the road some distance, say on an ATV trail,

507
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: And we do know that Mark or red Wine had

508
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: an ATV and they're deposited there and then once an animal,

509
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: once an animal begins to smell these these decomposing remains.

510
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: Remember they're actually found in June. There's nothing to say

511
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: that an animal would not have come by grabbed this

512
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: lower portion of the body. And it's not just the

513
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: lower portion the body. When they found the left and

514
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: the right femurs, they actually found the right clavical So

515
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: if you will touch, if you will, if you're listening

516
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: to my voice right now, it's your collarbone, and it's

517
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: your right collarbone. That's what they found of Dylan's. And

518
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: in addition to that, they found the tibia, which is

519
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: one of the lower leg bones.

520
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 3: There's two.

521
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: You have the tibia and the fibula that are in

522
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: the lower leg. Well, they found the right tibia, so

523
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: you've got two, and it's an odd combination in it, Dave,

524
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: You've got the left and the right femur, which are

525
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: the large robust bones in the legs. You've got the

526
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: right clavical which is the collarbone, and then you've got

527
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: this right tibia. So you know, as forensic forensic scientists,

528
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that you're thinking about

529
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: once this has been identified as human remains, you can't

530
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: necessarily say that it belongs to a specific person at

531
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: that point in time. But when you begin to examine

532
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: these and you're thinking, well, why do I only have

533
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: these items? Well, am I looking at a case where

534
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: we've got an animal that has torn a body apart?

535
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: Or do I have a case where another animal, a

536
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: human has torn a body apart and deposited the parts

537
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: in various areas, And so, you know, you begin to

538
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: think about this. If it's a human, then one of

539
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: the things that you're going to look for on the

540
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: surface of the bones are going to be tool marks

541
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: because that's how that's what we do. We've got opposable thumbs,

542
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: and we work with tools, and so if you're going

543
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: to take a part of human body, you're going to

544
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: need the tools to do that. And it's very I

545
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: don't know of any possible way that you could dismember

546
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: a human remain without utilizing some kind of metal tool

547
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: in order to do that. So these bones would have

548
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: to be carefully examined to you know, kind of either

549
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: rule that in or rule it out. Now.

550
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: One thing they did is after they found the bones

551
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: in June of twenty thirteen, it took a couple of weeks,

552
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: but in August, about eight weeks after they find those bones,

553
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: they're able to search the house and the truck. That's

554
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: when they find they bring in the cadaver dogs. A

555
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: human cadaver dog is brought into Mark Redwine's home and

556
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: that's where the dogs were hitting on saying that there

557
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: had been the corpse of a deceased person had been present.

558
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: That's the actual the way they wrote it out. It

559
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: had been present in that home, also in the uh

560
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: the bed of his truck. And this was after they'd

561
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: found those bones. But they didn't find all of them,

562
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: and one comment Mark RedWine made to a friend of

563
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: his that really came back to haunt him before they

564
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: found anything. Mark RedWine made the comment, I guess they

565
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: were talking about, how do you charge anybody, you know,

566
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: if he was killed, if he you know, just I'm

567
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: trying to picture a conversation you would have with somebody

568
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: that would include the term blunt force trauma from a

569
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 2: dad talking about his son when he doesn't know what

570
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: has happened to his son. Why, for the life of me,

571
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: I can can't figure out Joe. That's just not a

572
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 2: term I would want to use about a loved one,

573
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: much less would even think about using.

574
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: But he did.

575
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: Mark RedWine talked about blunt force trauma and well, they

576
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: need to find his head. Talking about police in order

577
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 2: to determine that his son had been murdered by blunt

578
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: force trauma, Well, they'd need to find his head.

579
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. How is it that you're you're comfortable enough to

580
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: make that comment and it's so very specific, you know,

581
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: you can reformulate that to talk about well, you know, gee,

582
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: I hope they find my son's body and maybe there'll

583
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: be information can tained on it that'll let us know

584
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: what happened. Okay, that's that's kind of the sympathetic view.

585
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: But then you begin to look at this from the

586
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: perspective of, well, you're being very specific here, very specific,

587
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: because blunt force is something that we normally talk about

588
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: in the realm of forensics and specifically forensic pathology, and

589
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: it's it's so, it's so, it has such a fine

590
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: point on it, and not just fine point when you're

591
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: talking about method that is used, but also Dave, when

592
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 1: you begin to think about anatomical location, because he states,

593
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: you know that you'd have to find the skull and

594
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm sure, much to his chagrin, Dalan

595
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: skull was actually found, well, what turned out to be

596
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: Dylan skull. Hikers actually found the skull on November the third,

597
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, fifteen, and it took them all

598
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: the way to May the twenty fifth of twenty sixteen

599
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 1: to get the skull positively identified. At that point in time, why.

600
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: Would it take so long? But I do want to

601
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 2: add something to this too, Joe, Yeah, all right, they

602
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 2: made a note where his the first the partial remains

603
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: were found. In June twenty thirteen, they go and discover

604
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: the cadaver dogs hitting in the house and in the

605
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 2: truck bed, and then the hikers. Almost three years nearly,

606
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: I mean November third, twenty fifteen, is just about three

607
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: years after he goes missing. They find his skull and

608
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 2: it's now further away. It's two miles, it's about ten

609
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: miles from the house.

610
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 3: And the one thing.

611
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 2: That Mark RedWine had said out loud is he believed

612
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: wild animals had attacked and had drug him. And one

613
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 2: of the experts of wildlife expert actually determined that quote

614
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: no animal known to be in the area would transport

615
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 2: a body up the mountain from mister Redwine's residence to

616
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: the first recovery site, or would transport the skull an

617
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: additional one point five miles through the terrain where the

618
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: skull was found. Yes, there's mony indictment.

619
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're not going to do that. And I

620
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: concur with with the with the expert in this case

621
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: and in my experience with where you have what are

622
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: referred to as a surface deposition of human remains, which

623
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: means these are non these are non buried remains. These

624
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: are these are remains that are left on top of

625
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 1: the ground. Now I'm not saying that at some point

626
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: in time the remains could not have been buried and

627
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: then kind of dug up.

628
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 3: But the surface deposition.

629
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, surface deposition. And essentially what that means is that

630
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: if you think about Okay, I'll give you a good example,

631
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: think about Brian Laundry. Okay, they found him in the swamps. Well,

632
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: when Brian Laundry's remains were found out in the swamp,

633
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: his body was not buried. That's a surface deposition of

634
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: the body. In total. Now with with these remains, it's

635
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: over such a massive area. And David, it's not like

636
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: it's not like, you know, here in the in the

637
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: Deep South, we're gonna walk down a dirt road together

638
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: carrying something in our hand and throw out one item

639
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: here and throw it another. You're talking about undulating, uneven

640
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: terrain that rises and falls at pitches. We can't even fathom,

641
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: particularly those of us that live that are flat landers,

642
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: that live in these in these areas around here, the

643
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: terrain varies so much most animals when they scavenge. And

644
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: this is one other thing before I forget it, I

645
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: wanted to mention when Dylan died or was turned up missing,

646
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: it was shortly after that that I think that Mark

647
00:38:55,080 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: RedWine had had, you know, put forth this idea that

648
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: perhaps a bear had gotten it. But the experts, and

649
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: this gives you an idea of the temperatures at this time.

650
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: The experts said that by the time that Dylan had

651
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: gone missing in November twelve, the bears would have gone

652
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: into hibernation by that time, so they're not out and about.

653
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: And you compare this to the Morphew case. What did

654
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: Barry Morphew say about his wife? Well, Mountain Lion.

655
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 3: Got mountainline guy.

656
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's only three. They're very territorial, and the

657
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: three in the area, and that one was nowhere near

658
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 2: where he was.

659
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

660
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting how people blame animals for these sorts

661
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: of things. And with most surface depositions of skeletal remains,

662
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: where you have bodies, let's just put it this way,

663
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: Where you have bodies that are you have bodies that

664
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: are intact, okay, that means that nothing has been done

665
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: with them. As they decay on the ground, animals will

666
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: come and they'll generally start in areas that they can

667
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: get access to. So if you've got a closed body,

668
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: they're going to go for the face. They're going to

669
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,720
Speaker 1: go for the fingers, all right, and they start to pull,

670
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: and as the body begins to deteriorate, things are more

671
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: easily pulled apart till they begin to tear at the clothing. Now,

672
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: some of Dylan's clothing was found. There were remnant of

673
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: clothing out there, including I think shoes as well. But

674
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: here here's the thing. You're not going to have them

675
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: spreading remains over this vast, uneven terrain, and I think

676
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: the skull what was okay, So the lower remains this

677
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: this deposition of the femurs eight miles away, along with

678
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: the clavicle and the tibia. That's eight miles away. You've

679
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: got to go another mile and a half up, you know,

680
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: increasing in elevation where you're gonna find his head. It

681
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: just it, you know, as they say down here in

682
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 1: the South, that dog don't hunt, and so it's just

683
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: it's just one of those things that it just it

684
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: defies all logic. Animals are not going to drag if

685
00:40:55,960 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: they're in a particular area kind of scavenging. They're gonna

686
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: grab whatever they can grab. They're going to take it back.

687
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: And the smaller animals, you know, you can forget about

688
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,959
Speaker 1: that because if you're talking about coyotes, these are not huge,

689
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: robust animals where they're gonna walk miles and miles and

690
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: it's not like the savannahs of Africa or a lion

691
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: or something. They're not gonna walk miles and miles and

692
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 1: miles with something that they're gonna they're gonna eat. They're

693
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: going to go very short distances, sit down, and they're

694
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: going to begin to ingest their food.

695
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: So if that is what happened, this makes no sense.

696
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: But what does make sense is you've got body parts,

697
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 2: you've got his remains found at eight miles away than

698
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 2: a mile and a half up the mountain, you find

699
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 2: his skull. But what did they find on the skull, Joe,

700
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: Because we remember Mark RedWine made the comment, well, they

701
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 2: can't do anything without finding, you know, without the head

702
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 2: because and he mentioned that's where the blunt force trauma

703
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 2: came in. By the way, still an unexplainable comment that

704
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 2: he made, and it has been brought up at court.

705
00:41:58,040 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 3: It was brought up in each stage.

706
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: Of along this way, because who would say that other

707
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 2: than somebody guilty of doing such a thing. But what

708
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 2: did that skull tell investigators.

709
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: Well other you know, well baseline they were finally able

710
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: to get Dylan's remains identified off.

711
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 2: Of Oh yeah, okay, back to that you said, Okay,

712
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: they found the skull in November, but it was May

713
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 2: of the next year before they could even identify it.

714
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the images that I've seen of the skull

715
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: seems like that it would make dental id very very

716
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: difficult on him. And by the time you're Dylan's age

717
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: in life, you will have had some type of dentistry performed.

718
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: And many people might not know this. I'm sure that

719
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: DNA came came into play in Dylan's case, But did

720
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: you know that there are certain cases where we're trying

721
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: to identify bodies if we don't have teeth. Well, actually,

722
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: forensic codentologists who look at the dental X rays, well,

723
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: we've I've been involved in cases where we use the

724
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: sinuses to identify people. So you can do a comparison

725
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: between sinuses of anti mortem X rays with post mortem

726
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: X rays of the skull. So if you've got you know,

727
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: you've got sinuses throughout your head. They're not just anterior,

728
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: you have some posterior as well. There are these little

729
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: chambers in your body, and they have certain patterns when

730
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: you look at them on radiographs X rays. You can

731
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: actually compare antimortem with post mortem images and you can

732
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: get X rays. You can use that as a starting

733
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: point to get the identification done, and then a forensic

734
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: anthropologist will take the skull and they'll begin to do

735
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: measurements in a very broad sense. So when you're a

736
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: thirteen year old, your skull has not fully matured at

737
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: that point to the same size that it's going to

738
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: be when you're a full grown adult. So there are

739
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: certain measurements that forensic anthropologists will make in order to

740
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: determine does this individual fit it within this demographic that

741
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: we're looking for. We're talking about thirteen year old white male.

742
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: Does this skull that we have even begin to marginally

743
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: fit into that? And so you begin to narrow down

744
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: from there. But further examination by the forensic anthropologies found

745
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: found four items that are of significance. First off, they

746
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: found evidence of these kind of what we refer to

747
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: as curvelinear fractures on the skull. And when I say curvelinear,

748
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: it's a fancy way of saying that You've got these

749
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: fractures that are kind of in a line, but they

750
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: also slightly curve, and that gives you an idea that

751
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: and they're separate, they're not communicating, which means that they

752
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: do not touch one another. Those are two specific areas

753
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: of blunt force trauma that Dylan would have sustained, and

754
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: these were located in the back of the head. The

755
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: skull fractures do not appear to be depressed skull fractures

756
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 1: where the plug of bone has been knocked down in there,

757
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: but it's enough potentially of a concussive four that it

758
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 1: could kill him. And here's the other thing that will

759
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: send a chill up your spine about this. Remember how

760
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: we were going on about how these remains were separated, Well, Dave,

761
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: one of the things that the forensic anthropologists found on

762
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: Dylan's skull were two tiny linear tool marks that are

763
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: consistent with a knife blade. So what does that tell us?

764
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: Why would this child have knife blade marks on the

765
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: external table of his skull. Now, one of the defense

766
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: experts at Mark Redwine's trial actually put forth the idea, well,

767
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: that's probably from an animal. The teeth marks of an

768
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: animal look completely different than a milled edge of a blade.

769
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: And these things are very uniformed. You can tell that

770
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 1: this was generated by a tool. So the big question

771
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: you have to ask after Mark RedWine, let's put to

772
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: shame as a result of what his boys had discovered.

773
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: After he thinks about it for some time about what

774
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: he's going to do, did he allow that colonel to

775
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,479
Speaker 1: be planted within his brain that drove him into such

776
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: a fit of rage that he would get his son

777
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: by himself on a Thanksgiving holiday, get him in that

778
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: house alone, beat him to death and destroy his mobile remains.

779
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this his body backs