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Speaker 1: Than this Black Lives Matter era.

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Speaker 2: I had to humble myself and say I cannot be

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Speaker 2: in every space because some spaces should be for people

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Speaker 2: under thirty five, some spaces should be for queer folks,

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Speaker 2: some spaces should be for African Americans.

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Speaker 1: And what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: That means not only do you humble yourself, that also

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Speaker 2: means at this point that there's other ways we can support.

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Speaker 3: From futuro media, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria Ino Jossa.

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Speaker 3: The killing of George Floyd became a national headline soon

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Speaker 3: after footage of the incident spread on social media. Graphic

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Speaker 3: videos showed Floyd, a forty six year old black man

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Speaker 3: and father, dying as a police officer knelt on his

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Speaker 3: neck for eight minutes and forty six seconds. After protests

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Speaker 3: erupted around the world. Derek chopviin the officer kneeling on

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Speaker 3: his neck, was taken into custody and charged with second

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Speaker 3: degree murder, and then later the three other officers present

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Speaker 3: were charged with aiding and abetting murder. It feels like

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Speaker 3: the killing of George Floyd has awakened many not just

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Speaker 3: to long standing issues in policing, but also to the

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Speaker 3: structural inequities that got us here, and that's driven a

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Speaker 3: lot of protesters and activists to look for solutions for

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Speaker 3: our future. Black Lives Matter is officially calling for divesting

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Speaker 3: money from the police and investing instead in community health.

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Speaker 3: The NAACP has also released a list of action items,

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Speaker 3: including implementing citizen review boards in cities across the country

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Speaker 3: and making officers disciplinary histories available to the public. Other

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Speaker 3: groups are calling for various degrees of police reform or abolition,

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Speaker 3: and the City of Minneapolis has actually committed to disbanding

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Speaker 3: its police force in favor of community led public safety.

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Speaker 3: But still there are many conversations to be had about

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Speaker 3: how we move forward. For LATINX people, that's meant confronting

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Speaker 3: issues of race and anti blackness within our own communities,

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Speaker 3: and many are grappling with how to hold these conversations

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Speaker 3: with their loved ones. We're also thinking about how to

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Speaker 3: be useful allies at this time as a new generation

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Speaker 3: of LATINX activists step up and speak out. Today on

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Speaker 3: our show, the first of several conversations we'll be having

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Speaker 3: about this complex moment. We'll talk with organizer and afro

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Speaker 3: Porto Rica scholar Rosa Clemente.

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Speaker 2: There are not thousands of people in the streets, there

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Speaker 2: are millions. We're all in this issue of this elite

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Speaker 2: one percent looting from us, and we have to say

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Speaker 2: we did this, and now we keep going and even

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Speaker 2: do better.

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Speaker 3: Rosa recently founded the Black LATINX Organizing Project. It's a

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Speaker 3: nonprofit dedicated to combating anti blackness in the Latino community.

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Speaker 3: She's also established a Puerto Rican media collective called pr

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Speaker 3: on the Map, and she ran for vice president on

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Speaker 3: the Green Party ticket in two thousand and eight. I

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Speaker 3: sat down with Rosa to talk about the systemic failures

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Speaker 3: that have led to these current protests. We also spoke

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Speaker 3: about how Latinos are interrogating what roles we need to

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Speaker 3: play during this pivotal moment. Rosa Clemente, welcome to let

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Speaker 3: you know, USA.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you always for having me, Maria. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: So I got to start with that question. I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is a historic time, but it certainly is also

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Speaker 3: a very painful time. So I just want to check

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Speaker 3: in on you. How are you doing, how are you feeling,

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Speaker 3: how are you managing?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm good, you know, And part of it

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Speaker 2: is I've been trained as an organizer, and for a

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Speaker 2: very long time, I've been involved in so many police

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Speaker 2: brutality movements and cases, you know, so I'm actually heart

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Speaker 2: and I'm so proud of all these young people on

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Speaker 2: the streets. Emil Karkabrow, someone that everybody should know as

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Speaker 2: one of the greatest philosophers in the twentieth century, said

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Speaker 2: claim no easy victories, you know, meaning claim a victory

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Speaker 2: right now. The victory right now is that people would

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Speaker 2: have expected in the middle of a global pandemic that

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Speaker 2: no one would have come out. And it's important, especially

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Speaker 2: as seasoned organizers, that we show young people and immediately say,

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Speaker 2: once you make a point to resist, you're on the

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Speaker 2: path to winning.

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Speaker 1: What that looks like may be very different for everybody.

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Speaker 2: I really encourage younger people especially to always look at

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Speaker 2: our history not just from a point of oppression, but

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Speaker 2: from a point of resistance. And we have to see

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Speaker 2: ourselves before oppression, like we have to look at our

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Speaker 2: history before.

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Speaker 1: The four hundred years that we've been experiencing.

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Speaker 3: If you step back at this particular moment that we're living,

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Speaker 3: for you, as an organizer and a historian, was this

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Speaker 3: inevitable this kind of utter confrontation that gets more and

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Speaker 3: more intense given the history of this country and what's

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Speaker 3: been happening now over the last four years. Do you

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Speaker 3: think that this was inevitable?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Of course.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, the American Project begins with enslavement and

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Speaker 2: exploitation of undocumented people and the taking of land of

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Speaker 2: Native people. So the American project's been a failure from

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Speaker 2: the beginning, and we've seen deaths before. But because we're

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Speaker 2: in this global pandemic, people are impacted by every systematic rupture,

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Speaker 2: including lack of health care and capitalism.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, what did they think was going

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Speaker 1: to happen?

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Speaker 2: You cannot keep killing our people in this manner.

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Speaker 3: So, Rosa, let's talk a little bit about checking anti

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Speaker 3: blackness in our Latino community. And it's been an issue

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Speaker 3: for a long time because of the legacy of colonialism

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Speaker 3: in Latin America. But you know, there's been criticism, strong

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Speaker 3: criticism of Spanish language television news outlets for how they

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Speaker 3: covered these protests. So you're saying, this is really a

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Speaker 3: moment to confront these biases. What does that actually look

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Speaker 3: like to you?

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Speaker 2: Well, again, the history is instructive, but you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: forty eight, so at my age, at this moment in

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Speaker 2: my life, if you're family and you're still like rocking

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Speaker 2: with all that anti blackness, I just you're not part

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Speaker 2: of my circle and it wants to be honest with you.

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Speaker 2: You know, there comes a time where you got to

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Speaker 2: put up boundaries, and I think that's really hard when

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Speaker 2: you're younger, right, And I don't tell people that's what

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Speaker 2: they have to do, but I definitely tell people that's

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Speaker 2: what I've done. I do believe that always there are

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Speaker 2: organizing opportunities in our families. But again, if you don't

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Speaker 2: have those boundaries, you will end up emotionally scarred. You know.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't born into a movement household. I was born

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Speaker 2: in the Bronx while the Bronx was burning. I had

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Speaker 2: to go to college to even understand why we as

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Speaker 2: perto Hicans were American citizens. So there was not a

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Speaker 2: lot of political talk ever in my household. But what

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Speaker 2: I did begin to do, the more I became politicized.

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Speaker 2: As one of my professors and mentors, doctor Vivi and

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Speaker 2: Verdell Gordon, would always say to me, you know, if

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Speaker 2: you can't talk to your family at the dinner table.

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Speaker 2: How are you going to organize? And early in my

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Speaker 2: college years that's what I began to do. So I

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Speaker 2: would come home, I'd be like, mom, dad, why didn't

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Speaker 2: you tell tell me about this?

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Speaker 1: Daddy? You look black? Why does your birth certificate say

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Speaker 1: you're white?

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Speaker 2: And then I began to have more conversations, not only

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Speaker 2: with my younger cousins, especially those that are still in

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Speaker 2: the bronx. You know, I would send them books. Now

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Speaker 2: that we have social media, that's what I do. My

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Speaker 2: cousins will hit me up. I'm like, well, you need

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Speaker 2: to read this. How do I deal with this anti

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Speaker 2: blackness from THITHI? You need to do this? What do

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Speaker 2: I do at work? You need to do this. I

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Speaker 2: have now even younger cousins that want to be on

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Speaker 2: the streets and I'm like, okay, you can go on

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Speaker 2: the streets, but do you have a crew, Where's your protocol?

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Speaker 1: What happens when your phone dies?

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Speaker 2: You know? And then lastly, for myself, I continue to

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Speaker 2: interrogate myself. I do a check in with myself once

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Speaker 2: a month. Now I have a checklist, like where are

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Speaker 2: you failing? Do you understand your privilege? Where are you stagnant.

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Speaker 2: Where are you being too cavalier?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: So those are the things that I do within my

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Speaker 2: blood family. And actually so my brother, who is also

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Speaker 2: very very light skinning, favors my mom for years. He's

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Speaker 2: heard me for thirty years. He called me three days ago.

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Speaker 2: He called my sister actually hysterically crying, and he goes,

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Speaker 2: why didn't I know this?

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Speaker 1: Why didn't I listen to you? I have white skin privilege.

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Speaker 2: What that shows is that usually what ends up happening

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Speaker 2: is that it takes something to wake up your consciousness.

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Speaker 2: And even though I've been talking to my brother all

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Speaker 2: his life about this, this moment awakened him and now

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Speaker 2: at thirty eight, he's like, this has to stop, This

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Speaker 2: has to end.

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Speaker 3: Coming up on Latino USA, my conversation with Afro Puerto

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Speaker 3: Rican activist Rosa Clemente continues stay with us, not stay boy. Yes, hey,

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Speaker 3: we're back. Like Rosa, many activists are looking to the

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Speaker 3: past in order to inform the present. Tamika Mallory, one

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Speaker 3: of the leading organizers of the Women's March, recently said

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Speaker 3: that the looting and rioting that happened is actually learned

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Speaker 3: behavior from American history.

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Speaker 1: Don't talk to us about looting.

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Speaker 2: Y'ah are the lootings America has unloaded black people. America

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Speaker 2: looted the Native.

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Speaker 1: Americans when they first came here.

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Speaker 2: So loading is what you do.

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Speaker 1: We learned it from you.

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Speaker 2: We learned violence from you.

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Speaker 3: In her two thousand and one article who Is Black,

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Speaker 3: Rosa Clemente explained how some of that cycle of violence

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Speaker 3: is mirrored in Latin American and LATINX history. Because of this,

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Speaker 3: she says, Latinos social justice efforts have often learned from

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Speaker 3: and grown with Black movements. For example, in the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 3: radical LATINX activist groups like the Young Lords and the

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Speaker 3: Brown Berets would hit the streets alongside the Black Panther Party.

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Speaker 3: The Young Lords started as a group of Puerto Rican

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Speaker 3: activists in Chicago and grew in New York. They were

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Speaker 3: inspired by the Black Panthers' actions and made similar efforts

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Speaker 3: in Latino communities. The Brown Berets started in la and

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Speaker 3: spread across the country, even modeled their revolutionary look berets

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Speaker 3: and military style of clothing after the Black Panthers.

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Speaker 2: There was the Black and Brown power movement that said

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Speaker 2: we will put our lives on the line for black liberation.

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Speaker 2: We have a history of always being part of each

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Speaker 2: other's struggles.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean we have.

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Speaker 2: To not interrogate anti blackness, that doesn't mean we don't

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Speaker 2: have to check some people in our family. But we're

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Speaker 2: in these streets too, and I think it fits a

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Speaker 2: very mainstream white supremacist narrative to try to continue to

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Speaker 2: divide who we are as a global black people, but

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Speaker 2: also as a global indigenous people.

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Speaker 3: Everyone has been kind of watching in real time how

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Speaker 3: this movement, these protests, this uprising of pain and anger

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Speaker 3: has been covered by mainstream media. So I'm wondering, as

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Speaker 3: journalists of color and of conscience, what is our role

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Speaker 3: and responsibility in this moment in terms of how we

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Speaker 3: frame this. As journalists of color, we have this historical

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Speaker 3: perspective that is part of how we report on what's

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Speaker 3: happening right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, two things that I don't believe there's objectivity

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Speaker 2: and journalism that would be the first thing. Second, I

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Speaker 2: would say we should be completely unapologetic about saying where

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Speaker 2: are the Latinos, Latina LATINX folks not only in mainstream media,

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Speaker 2: but a lot in this white so called left progressive media.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jared Ball. He is a comrade of mine.

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Speaker 2: We went to Cornell together and have been comrades for

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Speaker 2: a long time. He's scholar and his theory is that

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Speaker 2: journalism should be emacipatory, that if your journalism is not

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Speaker 2: about freedom, then it's not journalism.

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Speaker 3: I'm wondering whether or not this is yet again another

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Speaker 3: moment for the wider LATINX community and people who are

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Speaker 3: not LATINX to understand about Afro Latinos.

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Speaker 1: I love seeing a younger generation.

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Speaker 2: I love seeing like the visibility of some Afro latin

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Speaker 2: especially women. My critique right now around all of that

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Speaker 2: is that still unless we confront anti blackness, and all

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Speaker 2: we're talking about around Afro LATINX identity is hair and

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Speaker 2: food and language, well you know, then you can be

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Speaker 2: Afro LATINX and participate in anti blackness. We're not dealing

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Speaker 2: with the colonized mentality. We're not dealing with the fact

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Speaker 2: that as a greater LATINX community, we are told that

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Speaker 2: a race to LATINID is a race to whiteness, is

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Speaker 2: a race too being better than everybody else. But I

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Speaker 2: would say in my generation and younger ones, I am

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Speaker 2: proud to say I'm one of those few people that

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Speaker 2: have been talking about and really being about who I

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Speaker 2: racially am, often to the detriment of me even being

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Speaker 2: exiled in a lot of mainstream Latins circles. There have

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Speaker 2: been movements on the ground ever since we were captured

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Speaker 2: and enslaved and exploited. How do we use the past

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Speaker 2: to articulate the present condition, but to also be aware

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Speaker 2: that organizing a self is a skill that you have

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Speaker 2: to learn, and usually you only learn it through organizations.

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Speaker 2: I love the dream Defenders me hinting the Marsha P.

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Speaker 2: Johnson Institute. You know what an amazing time to finally

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Speaker 2: see black and around queer trans folks being like, no,

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Speaker 2: you're not leaving us out. We will not be a race,

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Speaker 2: we will not separate our identity, and we will lead

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Speaker 2: this movement. We have theory out there that is now

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Speaker 2: called black queer feminist theory. When did I think I

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Speaker 2: would ever see that as a guiding principle?

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Speaker 1: And it's here?

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Speaker 3: What's keeping you going? I mean, we were asking the

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Speaker 3: question not too long ago about how to cope with

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Speaker 3: being in quarantine. We're dealing with being in quarantine and

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Speaker 3: watching a mass movement. It can feel very overwhelming. How

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Speaker 3: are you coping and finding places to nourish yourself in

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Speaker 3: this moment.

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Speaker 2: Trying to be more disciplined, realizing that sometimes you have

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Speaker 2: to be still, that reading and writing is just as

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Speaker 2: important right now as being in the streets. You know,

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Speaker 2: second people, our people, Yo, this.

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Speaker 1: Has to stop.

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Speaker 2: Like this doesn't stop now, it's never gonna stop. We've

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Speaker 2: seen what the police doing, who they kill, you know,

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Speaker 2: and at the end it's definitely like all the children

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Speaker 2: in our collective lives. So you know, to see my

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Speaker 2: daughter at fifteen making an Instagram video.

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Speaker 1: Where she could list the names of all these people

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Speaker 1: killed was heartbreaking.

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Speaker 2: And then on the flip side was like, wow, me

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Speaker 2: and Justice my husband are pretty good parents.

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Speaker 1: But the movement is a great parent.

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Speaker 2: You know. And look at it as a fifteen year

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Speaker 2: old saying this has to end and our generation's gonna

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Speaker 2: stop this.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, don't apologize, I'm sorry, no battle. So Rosa Clemente,

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Speaker 3: thank you so much for all of your work and

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Speaker 3: for spending some time educating and sharing your thoughts with us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you anytime, and thank you to your crewe, and

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Speaker 2: thank you for you And you know, I'd rather be

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Speaker 2: in the streets with you, because I know you cannot

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Speaker 2: out box anybody.

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Speaker 3: There are so many conversations to be had at this

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Speaker 3: moment and to keep on having, and we're committed to

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Speaker 3: doing that here at Latino USA and Futuro Media, and

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Speaker 3: Rosa recommends some reading that might be helpful in this time.

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Speaker 3: She suggests texts such as One Drop Shifting the Lens

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Speaker 3: on Race by doctor Yaba Blake, which challenges the concept

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Speaker 3: of blackness as one identity. Some of Rosa's other favorites

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Speaker 3: include do Platanose Go with Colored Greens, a novel by

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Speaker 3: David Lamb, Willie Almo's New Yorkan poetry collection When a

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Speaker 3: Nicol Costs a Dime, and doctor Martin Morino Vega's personal

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Speaker 3: memoir When the Spirits Danced Mumbo So Happy Reading. This

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Speaker 3: episode was produced by Alejandra Sarrasad and edited by Sophia Parisaka.

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Speaker 3: The Latino USA team includes jel Masiez, Luis Trees, Antonio Sejuidrono,

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Speaker 3: and Alissa Scarce, with help from Raul Perees. Our engineers

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Speaker 3: are Stephanie Lebau and Julia Caruso. Additional engineering this week

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Speaker 3: by Lia Shaw, our director of Programming and Operations is

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Speaker 3: Nataria Fidejatz. Our digital editor is Amandel Can. Our New

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Speaker 3: York Women's Foundation Nignight fellow is Juja Rocha. Our theme

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Speaker 3: music was composed by zanyer Reinos. If you like the

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Speaker 3: music you heard on this episode, stop by Latinousa dot

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Speaker 3: org and check out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your

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Speaker 3: host and executive producer Marie Jrosa. Join us again on

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Speaker 3: our next episode, and in the meantime, look for us

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Speaker 3: on all of your social media. I'll see you there.

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Speaker 3: Stay safe, Joe.

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Speaker 4: Funding for Latino USA is coverage of a culture of

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Speaker 4: health is made possible in part by a grant from

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Speaker 4: the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Latino USA is made possible

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Speaker 4: in part by the Annie Casey Foundation creates a brighter

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Speaker 4: future for the nation's children by strengthening families, building greater

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Speaker 4: economic opportunity, and transforming communities. And Carnegie Corporation promoting the

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Speaker 4: advancement and diffusion of knowledge and understanding.

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Speaker 2: Your curl and it's probably like girls stopping.

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Speaker 1: We gotta edit this