WEBVTT - Virtual Reaity Robots Will Be Operating On You: Vicarious CEO 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:04.040 Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:06.920 my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:11.520 you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.600 with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.439 on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.520 at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Right now, I want 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:27.640 to go to uh Charlestown, Massachusetts and talk to Adam Sacks. 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.640 He's the CEO and co founder of Vicarious, which is 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:36.800 a robotic surgery startup backed by Bill Gates and looking 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:39.960 at us spack um, Adam, I gotta say, as a 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:42.879 lifelong motorcyclist, I'm a big fan of surgery. Is this 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.640 the kind of thing that I would need after, you know, 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.360 running into a pickup truck? Hey, guys, thanks so much 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.840 for having me out. Um so, uh well, let's hope 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.960 that never happened. But we're you know, we're targeting pretty 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:02.880 broad applications across abdominal surgery. Uh so you know, yeah, absolutely, 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.319 I think there are multiple procedures that are emergent procedures. 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.080 I'm imagining a robot like from short circuit standing over 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:13.840 an operating table, and I'm sure that's not what it's like, 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:15.679 what do you what do you do? And you also 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.360 make it possible for doctors to use kind of a 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:23.679 virtual reality look at the inner abdominal space. Yeah, exactly. 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.600 So you know what we essentially do it vicarious surgical 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:31.680 is we're creating a tiny little robot that goes inside 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:36.160 of your abdominal cavity and allows the surgeon to connect 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.680 to the robot using hand controllers in a VR headset 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.680 that they wear. It essentially becomes, you know, their avatar 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:47.160 inside the body. They're they're they're beamed inside of their patients. Uh, 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.520 and it allows for a you know, a much much better, 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.120 much more immersive approach for the surgeon, gives them a 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.080 lot better spatial awareness, a lot better ability to operate 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.640 once they're inside. This is as compared to you know, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.520 the two main alternatives that exist today, which you're either 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:08.800 either open surgery sort of the classic way of performing surgery, 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:12.200 where a surgeon will make one large incision and open 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:16.120 the patient up that that incision is associated with complication 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.919 rates that by the way, it's still the dominant way 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.200 of operating today, or robotic well and Adam, that's the 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.280 way patients are used to getting surgery right, having a 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.680 doctor physically be there in the room performing the surgery themselves. 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:31.680 What do you think do you think there's a barrier 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.440 in people being willing to have a robot do this 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.920 kind of thing instead. Well, I say this is you know, 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.200 one of the handful of areas where sometimes it actually 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.880 is best to be the second entrant to the market. Uh. There, 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.760 you know that there's an incumbent here in robotic surgery 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:54.480 that has developed a system. They perform about three percent 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.600 of the applicable procedures, which gives us a tremendous amount 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.239 of white space while still being about a million procedures 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.120 per year. I mean, surgery is an incredibly large market. 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.480 They're performed all over, all over the country and all 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.480 over the world. So there's already been you know, uh 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:15.919 comfort over the last twenty years grown in in robotic surgery, 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.240 while at the same time, the incumbents have not addressed 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:23.480 h the real needs of surgains and patients. So you're 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.520 going to combine with the spack the transaction combines the company, 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.760 the transaction values of the company. I should say at 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:34.000 a one point one billion dollars. It's um going to 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:36.480 provide you with about four or twenty five million in cash. 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:38.040 What are you gonna do with the with the money? 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:43.080 Is this all going to R and D and then deployment? Yeah, 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.880 So the point where we're at now is uh, you know, 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.240 much more development than research, kind of finishing up the 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.800 final development all we've we've been at this full time 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:57.040 for seven years, and we've reinvented the way surgical robotics 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.800 work actually from you know, from truly the ground up, 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:04.360 the actuator level of so uh, less than half of 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.640 the money total that the proceeds in this transaction will 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:11.520 be used for development, really refining the features and then 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.600 getting through the regulatory halfway so that we can get 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:20.000 our systems to hospitals, the surgeons into patients. UM. Half 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.080 of the money, more than half of the money actually 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.120 will be used to drive the commercial effort and the 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:28.279 growth and revenue that you've seen our in our projection. 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:30.600 Do you work do you work with Bill Gates on this? 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.880 What's it like working with Bill Gates? I? Uh, you know, 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.640 we we've had the pleasure of meeting him a handful 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.080 of times and actually pitching this to him in person. 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.320 But you know, I wouldn't say we worked you know, 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.640 cater tate with him at all. We we give him 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.119 updates on what we're doing. Adam quickly, I just quickly 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:50.760 want to ask, we only have about a minute left, 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.679 but why a speck Did you look at taking another 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.000 route to the public markets? Did you look at doing 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.960 an I p O. Yeah, the answer is of course. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.560 But you know, I think facts give unique advantage in 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.200 that they have, you know, the cash and trust combined 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.160 with the SPAC sponsor who brings you know, UH, their 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.640 own set of expertise and experiences, especially in our case 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.599 having you know that the former CEO of the Shaw 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.240 Asia being the stack promote and all the public market 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.280 experience that comes with that, and their ability to do 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.400 deep diligence, send surgeons out to try our system to 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.680 do cadaver lab and then to stand behind all of 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:33.599 their diligence with both their capital and their experience. So 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.440 it's it's uh. I think that there's a real place 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.480 for spacts UH in the world, and we're incredibly excited 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.920 to be partnering with d A. And there's a big 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:45.359 pipe component we should point out. Usually a vote of 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:47.960 confidence there from the pros. Adam, thanks so much for 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.920 joining us. Adam Sacks, CEO and co founder of Vicarious 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:56.680 Taker will be r B O T. Don't want to 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:00.520 bring in strip classis. He is the principal director of 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:05.080 research at the John Burns real estate consulting firm out 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:10.400 in Irvine, California. And um, Rick, I am desperately seeking 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.760 a home in Westchester, New York. Uh as soon as 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.760 I can convince my wife we're moving back state side. 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.719 And um, I've noticed that the prices are a lot 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.360 higher than they were when I left five years ago. 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:27.800 Are we in a housing bubble? Yeah? So good luck 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:32.839 with that search, good luck to really anybody across the country. UM. 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:34.400 You know, we put out a paper on this a 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.120 couple of weeks ago called Investormania two point oh. And 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:38.880 you know, I think it's important take a step back 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.720 and just really just hit on the head. I mean, 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.159 housing fundamentals are the strongest in decades, and we expect 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.360 to boom over the next few years. But our view 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:51.159 is that we are in the early stages of a bubble, 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.080 no imminent risk of a collapse, and honestly, the next 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:56.720 two years are probably gonna be the best years for 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.839 housing in in a decade. So the word bubble is 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:05.479 a loosely defined term. How do you define bubble and 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.560 what factors are you considering in leading you to this 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.920 conclusion that we could be building towards one? Yeah, I 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.200 I think the one the one element that we don't 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.400 have that is usually check off the box where the 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.120 bubble is crazy wacky mortgage lending. So we don't have 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.280 a knock on both thank goodness. We don't have the 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.640 ninja loans, no income, no job, no assets, um. And 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.600 that's that's the reason why in the paper Investor Media 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:34.240 two point oh one point oh was really the retail 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:39.040 buyer investor getting five plus mortgages, no equity, no documentation. 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.320 That is not happening as far as we're we're seeing. 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.520 It's much more. And this is the two point oh 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:49.080 much more of an institutionally backed umbrella of investor groups. 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.960 And so in the paper we identified two hundred plus 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.760 and it's pretty eye opening because most of these groups, 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.600 actually the lion's share, did not exist in the last upturn. 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.480 So I can walk you through the categories. It's flippers, 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.400 it's I buyers. I think like the open door off 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.600 the paths of the world, single family rental landlords which 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:12.640 are now institutionally backed um backed by capital really across 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.920 the world, pension insurance company's sovereign wealth funds, vacation second 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.040 home buyers, foreign investors. And then the last one I 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.400 think is when you when you ask that question, bubble um. 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.760 This last category, so the theme of democratization of rental 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:32.120 investing and all of these alternative fractional ownership crowdfunding groups 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.360 that are advertising themselves kind of like the Robin hoods 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.480 of real estate. That's the thing that worries me, I 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:42.640 would say the most, Well, dude, for me, this is 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.520 the worst of both worlds, because you're telling me the 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.600 bank is gonna be the bank is going to really 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:52.880 scrutinize my financials without giving me a mortgage. But prices 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.920 are going up like bubble style, so you know, the 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.560 million dollar house I want is going to cost too 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.719 sick and I'm never going to get a mortgage. Um. 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.640 I mean, do I get with one of these? Uh? 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:08.720 Do I have to end up renting from one of 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.040 these groups? There are big institutions that are going out 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.480 and buying loads of houses and then renting them out 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.839 to people. So I have not yet seen a group 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.080 renting out two million dollar plus homes at scale. So 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:21.560 you tell me if you find that, I would love 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.599 to hear that. Um. But but I mean, honestly, I 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.000 mean we you know, we saw the monster housing housing 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:32.000 numbers this morning, and a big percentage of those homes 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.480 and I'm talking single family, they're going to go right 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.120 into the rental pool. And I mean this is just 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.080 if you, if you follow with the big public builders 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.920 are saying publicly, I mean they're selling right into those groups. 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.120 The big public single family rental operators are buying ten 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:50.120 to of their homes straight from home builders. Um. So yeah, 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.920 I do think that the rental market is going to 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:55.920 capture a lot of this. Well, Rick, I'm glad you 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.439 brought that up. Obviously, the data you're referring to is 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.480 housing starts jumped to night teen point four percent, to 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.200 the highest since two thousand six. That's what the data 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.080 revealed this morning. I'm wondering how long you think that 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.679 strong construction activity can really continue, though, especially as we 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.240 look at pricing pressures and material costs, supply chain issues, 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:19.000 all these inflationary conversations are having Yeah, yeah, no. Homebuilders 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.880 are trying their darndest to add some supply to the market, 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.240 and it just it takes a long time. I mean, 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.040 you don't buy land and slow homes on it the 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.920 next day. But I can tell you we're extremely bullish 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.480 the next couple of years. And we've got housing starts 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:34.720 and now I'm stack in single family bulle family here. 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:37.160 We've got housing starts going up to roughly two million 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.120 four so we we do expect that we're going to 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:45.200 get back to the oh five six type of construction levels. 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.080 And I think it also comes back to my earlier 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:51.200 comments on how yes, investors are accelerating this recovery, but 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.880 the backdrop from just the fundamental standpoint is really the 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:57.880 strongest we've seen in many, many, many years. So there's 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.480 there's a lot of runway here, Rick, where you seeing, 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:06.440 um the biggest price inflation. So if you're asking on 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:08.800 markets across the country in terms of home prices, I 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.640 would say so nationally, our index and this is March 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:17.280 data is up about fire and this is the resale market. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.040 I mean, if you look at a market like Boise, 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.240 which is all the buzz right now, home presses are 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.680 up three percent year of rear. And that's so if 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.439 you've lived and breathed in in Boise your whole life, 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:28.880 you look around, you're like, this does not make any sense. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.480 But if you're coming out of California or maybe Matt 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.520 you and New York, Boise it's pretty affordable compared to Westchester. 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:39.959 Maybe my boss will let me relocate to Boise. That 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.160 would actually rule. I would love. I mean, I've never 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.280 been to Boise, but I assume it's amazing having watched 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.480 a lot of Westerns. I think it features heavily in 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:53.040 Legends of the Fall, the Brad Pitt Anthony Hopkins film. UM. 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.640 John thanks so much for joining us. Rick Pelacios there, 0:11:55.720 --> 0:12:00.400 director of research at John Burns Real Estate. Uh uh 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:06.000 Rick Pelasio's John Burns Real Estate UM Consulting. Really fascinating story. 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.040 If depressing for someone in the housing market, it's great 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:13.959 for those of you looking to sell a house. We 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:16.600 just get over now to Lauren Sour she's an associate 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:21.160 professor of Emergency Medicine at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:26.840 To talk about UM, the vaccine drive and what's working 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.360 what's not, Lauren, I want to start off with a 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.560 question my producer samaraw Lnga has often asked, but we 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.160 don't really know. UM, I don't really know the answer, 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.600 and we haven't really gotten a solid one. After you 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:45.079 get vaccinated? Can you still transmit the disease? Can vaccinated 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:49.480 people still pass it on? It's a great question. I mean, 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.199 I think the reason you haven't gotten satisfying answer is 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.679 because the work is still being done to understand that. 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.440 I know both Fightser and Maderna have studies ongoing where 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.080 they're looking at transmission, and so we do know that 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.439 it protects you against severe disease, protects you against hospitalization. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.960 And the question you have to, you know, dig into 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.720 a little deeper, using specimens from the UM studies and 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.920 ongoing following of participants and their familial cohorts, is to 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:18.920 look at this. And that's the work that's happening right now. 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.520 We think the preliminary data shows that it is transmission blocking, 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.000 at least from I believe it's the Fiser and Maderna 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:28.400 vaccines that we have preliminary data from UM. But it's 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.959 sort of a wait and see situation where we hope 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.200 to continue to see good data that shows us that 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.760 it is, well, wait for how long, Lauren? I was 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.520 looking at the CDC guidelines about you know what fully 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:42.120 vaccinated people can and cannot do, and it says until 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.959 more is known to keep socially distancing, etcetera, etcetera. Until 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.240 more is known. Really is the operative line there? How 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.600 long until more is known? Yeah? I think so. We 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.520 already have the preliminary study. I believe it was out 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.920 of Israel that shows that the Fiser vaccine might block 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.160 transmission UM, which is promising for the rest of the 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.600 release for both of the m R and A vaccines UM. 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.320 So I think the until more is known is actually 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.720 right around the corner. We continue to learn more and 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:16.160 more every day about these vaccines UM, and the transmission 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.680 piece is really important, but it's it's also important to 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.400 remember that transmission blocking only happens when you get the vaccine, 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.680 so UM that all of that work is also happening 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.160 to encourage people to get vaccine UM as we continue 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.280 to learn about this piece is really really important. So 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.760 UM making sure that people are reporting if they have 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.480 breakthrough cases, going to their doctor, getting tested regularly, all 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.360 that gives us more and more information about whether or 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.280 not we're seeing transmission happening. So, Lauren, I want to 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.960 talk about one vaccine in particular, obviously in the news 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.800 this week is Johnson and Johnson's. Are you surprised that 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.000 there hasn't been a conclusion out of the CDC and 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.560 the advisory panel yet and that one might not come 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:01.200 until late next week at the earliest. I think we 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.200 were hoping to see UM out of that meeting that 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.400 just happened UM the day before yesterday. I believe it 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:11.200 was UM a decision. We understand that, you know, this 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.080 is sort of science happening in real time, and so 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.440 where many more people are exposed to the process, but 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.520 it can happen that they want more information. I would 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.360 love to see an outcome out of that next meeting 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.040 for a determination. I think the sooner we can get 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.520 back to giving J and J vaccine, even if it 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:35.720 is to a slightly different population. The Better Visor's CEO says, 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.920 we'll probably need boosters, maybe even a third dose. I 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.960 just talked this morning to the Cure Vac CEO out 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.320 of Tubing in Germany. He said, it's it's likely as well. 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.000 Are we going to be in a situation where we 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:51.920 continue to get boosters from these vaccines. Yeah, I think 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.160 that there's a good chance that we will need boosters 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.760 for these vaccines. That that it perhaps it will look 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.640 something along the lines of how we get our vaccine 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.720 where the the vaccine strains are are evaluated during the 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.640 course of the year and then updated and boosters are given. 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:09.760 I mean, I think in an ideal world, you could 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:13.560 even if we see that this booster schedule is similar 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.320 to something like flu, where you could put those vaccines 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.080 together and have one, you know, vaccine that covers both 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.520 flu and covid or um flu covid in RSC, you know, 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.360 all the all the all of the the sort of 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.960 seasonal diseases that we might potentially be exposed to that 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.280 we do have vaccine for. It'll take some work. Um 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.360 and you know MODERNA and Fiser are already updating their 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.240 vaccine that I think MODERNA already has an update based 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.520 on UM the B one I believe it's the B 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.400 one one seven variant UM. So the work is happening 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:50.040 to update the vaccines now, right, and then boosters will 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.760 be given. So, Laura, that's the booster. But when it 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:56.160 comes to just the initial inoculation as many as one 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.600 in three vaccines in the US are going unused in 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:03.120 some states, some in the South in particular. That's basically 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.080 as signed demand is slowing down. What do you chalk 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:10.280 that up to? Is that just hesitancy? I think it's 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.960 a mix of hesitancy and access. So the key with 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:17.040 fixing hesitancy is once you convince someone that the vaccine 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:18.800 is safe and effective and that they should get it, 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.560 and they make that decision, you have to make it 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:22.800 available for them, UM and they have to be able 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:24.800 to get it. So making sure that you have vaccine 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.720 site set up in places that populations that are a 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.320 little harder to reach can access, or people who maybe 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.120 don't have transportation or can't take off work for half 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.040 a day to wait in line at a mass vaccination site, 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:38.480 making it easy to get the way we do with 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.560 the flu vaccine UM. And so the hesitation piece is 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.520 really going to have to focus on messaging why this 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.680 vaccine is safe, right, reading why it's effective and important, 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:52.000 but also finding out what what is the barrier for them, 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.280 what would do they have concerns about, and trying to 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.119 answer those concerns. All right, Lauren, thanks very much. Laurence 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:03.639 hour there from John Johns Hopkins Universe. It as we 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:07.359 have learned, uh, certainly during this pandemic. Anyone can get 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:12.879 famous on social media, whether it's TikTok, YouTube or Instagram, 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.760 but it's a lot easier to make a living there 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.480 if you're white. Bloomberg's were needed Young In collaboration with Bloomberg, 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.840 Quicktake explores how marketers are under paying black influencers while 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:27.920 pushing Black lives matter in this program. In this Bloomberg 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:33.240 Radio special report, when I first started on TikTok, it 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.600 was already a big talk about how much the biggest 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.720 influencer on the app was making at the time. Comparing 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.120 that to what I was getting offered, I could tell. 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:45.680 Twenty two year old Sydney McCrae is an influencer and choreographer. 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.359 She's known widely for creating a viral dance to Magan 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:57.840 the Stallion six positive club banger Captain Hook. McCray noticed 0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:59.879 a pay gap in the industry yes soon as she 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.960 first started making beauty tutorials on YouTube about a year ago, 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.920 and after the viral post where she explained her dance 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.440 step by step, the popular videos attracted more than four 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:14.760 hundred thousand likes within weeks of posting. Many of TikTok's 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:19.199 top stars performed their versions of McRae's choreography, also helping 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.879 the song soar in popularity. Then in April, Megan V. 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:28.439 Stallion herself joined in and McCray started gaining followers by 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:32.400 the thousands. Now she has one point one million TikTok 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.680 followers and she's verified. But she and other black digital 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.480 content creator said none of that talent or impact mattered 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:44.600 in the multibillion dollar global market for brand endorsement on 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.080 social media. As a content creator, seeing all of the 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.680 things that we can do for an artist or a company, 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.679 in receiving such little pay for our artistic creations, it 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.400 was a slap in the face. Really, boy, that's why 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:02.040 your hairline going tobaccio net. Then there's influencer in sketch 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.680 comic Kinney Knox, who started posting videos on the now 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.680 defunct six second video app Vine. The twenty two year 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.359 old followers swelled to one point six million, and he 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.480 became one of the top creators on the app. Yet 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:20.159 he did not get any offers for brand deals. But 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.120 he noticed his non black peers who didn't have as 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:26.679 many followers or activity as him did get work with 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.199 the big brands. It was weird because it was like 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.800 I'm going viral with every video, but no company is 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.040 even looking my way. When it comes to twenty five 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:40.160 year old Landon Moss, this influencer and actor once had 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:43.240 a huge brand deal with a couple of other influencers 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.840 on the same contracts. I come to find out that 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.359 they had made like devil of what I was making, 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.879 and one of them had way less followers. In me, 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.120 it was just weird to me that he had made 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.480 more money than me with less followers. And then to 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.439 think about like what I was originally offered, Like what 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.640 did they offer him? He some up the influencer pay 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.879 gap Like this. Racism isn't exclusive to a certain field, 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:07.679 and so even when you have new fields like the 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.960 influencer industry, it's gonna make its way in there too, 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:15.800 mccraine mos said Knox tell Bloomberg Quick Take. White influencers 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.400 have reposted their work or stolen their ideas which then 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:23.639 went viral on those accounts, but they the original creators, 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:27.960 got no credit. People take advantage of like black creatives 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.199 like this trend and it's all fun, and then so 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:32.879 on profits off something that a black career started, and 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.639 then they get praise and fame, and you know, and 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:37.760 when that's just the piece of us and it doesn't 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:41.000 stop there. These influencers say they have to be extra 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.159 careful about what they say, where, how they look, what 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.880 causes they support, so they won't offend any of the brands. Meanwhile, 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:52.000 they say they're white peers get away with more explicit 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:55.680 posts with merely a slap on the wrist from big brands. 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:58.679 One of the reasons why it's been such a difficult 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.399 experience for many black creators is because traditionally, in Hollywood, 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.639 racial biases have tended to flow from the top. Executives 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:09.760 hire white directors and producers, who in turn work with 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:14.359 white casting agents who cast white actors. Whenever black talent 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:18.120 is considered, it's often for roles or projects that specifically 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:22.760 require it. Social media companies have often promoted diversity initiatives, 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:31.920 but in practice they're not much different. Inter Summer, when 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:35.119 the police killing of George Floyd forced America into a 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:39.120 racial reckoning and sparked an international Black Lives Matter movement, 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.040 brands gained a strong desire to work with black influencers, 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.280 and black talent managers started getting more calls for their 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:51.840