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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Right now, I want

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Speaker 1: to go to uh Charlestown, Massachusetts and talk to Adam Sacks.

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Speaker 1: He's the CEO and co founder of Vicarious, which is

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Speaker 1: a robotic surgery startup backed by Bill Gates and looking

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Speaker 1: at us spack um, Adam, I gotta say, as a

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Speaker 1: lifelong motorcyclist, I'm a big fan of surgery. Is this

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing that I would need after, you know,

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Speaker 1: running into a pickup truck? Hey, guys, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for having me out. Um so, uh well, let's hope

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Speaker 1: that never happened. But we're you know, we're targeting pretty

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Speaker 1: broad applications across abdominal surgery. Uh so you know, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I think there are multiple procedures that are emergent procedures.

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Speaker 1: I'm imagining a robot like from short circuit standing over

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Speaker 1: an operating table, and I'm sure that's not what it's like,

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Speaker 1: what do you what do you do? And you also

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Speaker 1: make it possible for doctors to use kind of a

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Speaker 1: virtual reality look at the inner abdominal space. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So you know what we essentially do it vicarious surgical

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Speaker 1: is we're creating a tiny little robot that goes inside

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Speaker 1: of your abdominal cavity and allows the surgeon to connect

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Speaker 1: to the robot using hand controllers in a VR headset

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Speaker 1: that they wear. It essentially becomes, you know, their avatar

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Speaker 1: inside the body. They're they're they're beamed inside of their patients. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and it allows for a you know, a much much better,

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Speaker 1: much more immersive approach for the surgeon, gives them a

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Speaker 1: lot better spatial awareness, a lot better ability to operate

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Speaker 1: once they're inside. This is as compared to you know,

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Speaker 1: the two main alternatives that exist today, which you're either

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Speaker 1: either open surgery sort of the classic way of performing surgery,

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Speaker 1: where a surgeon will make one large incision and open

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Speaker 1: the patient up that that incision is associated with complication

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Speaker 1: rates that by the way, it's still the dominant way

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Speaker 1: of operating today, or robotic well and Adam, that's the

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Speaker 1: way patients are used to getting surgery right, having a

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Speaker 1: doctor physically be there in the room performing the surgery themselves.

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Speaker 1: What do you think do you think there's a barrier

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Speaker 1: in people being willing to have a robot do this

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Speaker 1: kind of thing instead. Well, I say this is you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the handful of areas where sometimes it actually

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Speaker 1: is best to be the second entrant to the market. Uh. There,

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Speaker 1: you know that there's an incumbent here in robotic surgery

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Speaker 1: that has developed a system. They perform about three percent

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Speaker 1: of the applicable procedures, which gives us a tremendous amount

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Speaker 1: of white space while still being about a million procedures

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Speaker 1: per year. I mean, surgery is an incredibly large market.

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Speaker 1: They're performed all over, all over the country and all

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Speaker 1: over the world. So there's already been you know, uh

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Speaker 1: comfort over the last twenty years grown in in robotic surgery,

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Speaker 1: while at the same time, the incumbents have not addressed

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Speaker 1: h the real needs of surgains and patients. So you're

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Speaker 1: going to combine with the spack the transaction combines the company,

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Speaker 1: the transaction values of the company. I should say at

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Speaker 1: a one point one billion dollars. It's um going to

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Speaker 1: provide you with about four or twenty five million in cash.

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Speaker 1: What are you gonna do with the with the money?

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Speaker 1: Is this all going to R and D and then deployment? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So the point where we're at now is uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: much more development than research, kind of finishing up the

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Speaker 1: final development all we've we've been at this full time

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Speaker 1: for seven years, and we've reinvented the way surgical robotics

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Speaker 1: work actually from you know, from truly the ground up,

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Speaker 1: the actuator level of so uh, less than half of

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Speaker 1: the money total that the proceeds in this transaction will

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Speaker 1: be used for development, really refining the features and then

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Speaker 1: getting through the regulatory halfway so that we can get

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Speaker 1: our systems to hospitals, the surgeons into patients. UM. Half

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Speaker 1: of the money, more than half of the money actually

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Speaker 1: will be used to drive the commercial effort and the

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Speaker 1: growth and revenue that you've seen our in our projection.

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Speaker 1: Do you work do you work with Bill Gates on this?

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Speaker 1: What's it like working with Bill Gates? I? Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: we we've had the pleasure of meeting him a handful

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Speaker 1: of times and actually pitching this to him in person.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I wouldn't say we worked you know,

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Speaker 1: cater tate with him at all. We we give him

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Speaker 1: updates on what we're doing. Adam quickly, I just quickly

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Speaker 1: want to ask, we only have about a minute left,

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Speaker 1: but why a speck Did you look at taking another

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Speaker 1: route to the public markets? Did you look at doing

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Speaker 1: an I p O. Yeah, the answer is of course.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I think facts give unique advantage in

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Speaker 1: that they have, you know, the cash and trust combined

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Speaker 1: with the SPAC sponsor who brings you know, UH, their

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Speaker 1: own set of expertise and experiences, especially in our case

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Speaker 1: having you know that the former CEO of the Shaw

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Speaker 1: Asia being the stack promote and all the public market

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Speaker 1: experience that comes with that, and their ability to do

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Speaker 1: deep diligence, send surgeons out to try our system to

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Speaker 1: do cadaver lab and then to stand behind all of

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Speaker 1: their diligence with both their capital and their experience. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's uh. I think that there's a real place

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Speaker 1: for spacts UH in the world, and we're incredibly excited

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Speaker 1: to be partnering with d A. And there's a big

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Speaker 1: pipe component we should point out. Usually a vote of

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Speaker 1: confidence there from the pros. Adam, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. Adam Sacks, CEO and co founder of Vicarious

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Speaker 1: Taker will be r B O T. Don't want to

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Speaker 1: bring in strip classis. He is the principal director of

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Speaker 1: research at the John Burns real estate consulting firm out

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Speaker 1: in Irvine, California. And um, Rick, I am desperately seeking

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Speaker 1: a home in Westchester, New York. Uh as soon as

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Speaker 1: I can convince my wife we're moving back state side.

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Speaker 1: And um, I've noticed that the prices are a lot

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Speaker 1: higher than they were when I left five years ago.

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Speaker 1: Are we in a housing bubble? Yeah? So good luck

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Speaker 1: with that search, good luck to really anybody across the country. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, we put out a paper on this a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago called Investormania two point oh. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it's important take a step back

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Speaker 1: and just really just hit on the head. I mean,

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Speaker 1: housing fundamentals are the strongest in decades, and we expect

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Speaker 1: to boom over the next few years. But our view

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Speaker 1: is that we are in the early stages of a bubble,

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Speaker 1: no imminent risk of a collapse, and honestly, the next

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Speaker 1: two years are probably gonna be the best years for

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Speaker 1: housing in in a decade. So the word bubble is

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Speaker 1: a loosely defined term. How do you define bubble and

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Speaker 1: what factors are you considering in leading you to this

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Speaker 1: conclusion that we could be building towards one? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: I think the one the one element that we don't

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Speaker 1: have that is usually check off the box where the

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Speaker 1: bubble is crazy wacky mortgage lending. So we don't have

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Speaker 1: a knock on both thank goodness. We don't have the

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Speaker 1: ninja loans, no income, no job, no assets, um. And

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Speaker 1: that's that's the reason why in the paper Investor Media

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Speaker 1: two point oh one point oh was really the retail

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Speaker 1: buyer investor getting five plus mortgages, no equity, no documentation.

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Speaker 1: That is not happening as far as we're we're seeing.

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Speaker 1: It's much more. And this is the two point oh

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Speaker 1: much more of an institutionally backed umbrella of investor groups.

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Speaker 1: And so in the paper we identified two hundred plus

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Speaker 1: and it's pretty eye opening because most of these groups,

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Speaker 1: actually the lion's share, did not exist in the last upturn.

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Speaker 1: So I can walk you through the categories. It's flippers,

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Speaker 1: it's I buyers. I think like the open door off

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Speaker 1: the paths of the world, single family rental landlords which

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Speaker 1: are now institutionally backed um backed by capital really across

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Speaker 1: the world, pension insurance company's sovereign wealth funds, vacation second

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Speaker 1: home buyers, foreign investors. And then the last one I

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Speaker 1: think is when you when you ask that question, bubble um.

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Speaker 1: This last category, so the theme of democratization of rental

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Speaker 1: investing and all of these alternative fractional ownership crowdfunding groups

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Speaker 1: that are advertising themselves kind of like the Robin hoods

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Speaker 1: of real estate. That's the thing that worries me, I

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Speaker 1: would say the most, Well, dude, for me, this is

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Speaker 1: the worst of both worlds, because you're telling me the

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Speaker 1: bank is gonna be the bank is going to really

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Speaker 1: scrutinize my financials without giving me a mortgage. But prices

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Speaker 1: are going up like bubble style, so you know, the

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Speaker 1: million dollar house I want is going to cost too

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Speaker 1: sick and I'm never going to get a mortgage. Um.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do I get with one of these? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Do I have to end up renting from one of

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Speaker 1: these groups? There are big institutions that are going out

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Speaker 1: and buying loads of houses and then renting them out

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Speaker 1: to people. So I have not yet seen a group

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Speaker 1: renting out two million dollar plus homes at scale. So

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Speaker 1: you tell me if you find that, I would love

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Speaker 1: to hear that. Um. But but I mean, honestly, I

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Speaker 1: mean we you know, we saw the monster housing housing

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Speaker 1: numbers this morning, and a big percentage of those homes

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Speaker 1: and I'm talking single family, they're going to go right

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Speaker 1: into the rental pool. And I mean this is just

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Speaker 1: if you, if you follow with the big public builders

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Speaker 1: are saying publicly, I mean they're selling right into those groups.

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Speaker 1: The big public single family rental operators are buying ten

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Speaker 1: to of their homes straight from home builders. Um. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do think that the rental market is going to

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Speaker 1: capture a lot of this. Well, Rick, I'm glad you

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Speaker 1: brought that up. Obviously, the data you're referring to is

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Speaker 1: housing starts jumped to night teen point four percent, to

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Speaker 1: the highest since two thousand six. That's what the data

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Speaker 1: revealed this morning. I'm wondering how long you think that

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Speaker 1: strong construction activity can really continue, though, especially as we

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Speaker 1: look at pricing pressures and material costs, supply chain issues,

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Speaker 1: all these inflationary conversations are having Yeah, yeah, no. Homebuilders

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Speaker 1: are trying their darndest to add some supply to the market,

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Speaker 1: and it just it takes a long time. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you don't buy land and slow homes on it the

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Speaker 1: next day. But I can tell you we're extremely bullish

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Speaker 1: the next couple of years. And we've got housing starts

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Speaker 1: and now I'm stack in single family bulle family here.

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Speaker 1: We've got housing starts going up to roughly two million

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Speaker 1: four so we we do expect that we're going to

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Speaker 1: get back to the oh five six type of construction levels.

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Speaker 1: And I think it also comes back to my earlier

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Speaker 1: comments on how yes, investors are accelerating this recovery, but

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Speaker 1: the backdrop from just the fundamental standpoint is really the

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Speaker 1: strongest we've seen in many, many, many years. So there's

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of runway here, Rick, where you seeing,

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Speaker 1: um the biggest price inflation. So if you're asking on

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Speaker 1: markets across the country in terms of home prices, I

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Speaker 1: would say so nationally, our index and this is March

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Speaker 1: data is up about fire and this is the resale market.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at a market like Boise,

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Speaker 1: which is all the buzz right now, home presses are

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Speaker 1: up three percent year of rear. And that's so if

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Speaker 1: you've lived and breathed in in Boise your whole life,

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Speaker 1: you look around, you're like, this does not make any sense.

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Speaker 1: But if you're coming out of California or maybe Matt

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Speaker 1: you and New York, Boise it's pretty affordable compared to Westchester.

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Speaker 1: Maybe my boss will let me relocate to Boise. That

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Speaker 1: would actually rule. I would love. I mean, I've never

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Speaker 1: been to Boise, but I assume it's amazing having watched

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Speaker 1: a lot of Westerns. I think it features heavily in

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Speaker 1: Legends of the Fall, the Brad Pitt Anthony Hopkins film. UM.

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Speaker 1: John thanks so much for joining us. Rick Pelacios there,

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Speaker 1: director of research at John Burns Real Estate. Uh uh

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Speaker 1: Rick Pelasio's John Burns Real Estate UM Consulting. Really fascinating story.

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Speaker 1: If depressing for someone in the housing market, it's great

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Speaker 1: for those of you looking to sell a house. We

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Speaker 1: just get over now to Lauren Sour she's an associate

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Speaker 1: professor of Emergency Medicine at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.

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Speaker 1: To talk about UM, the vaccine drive and what's working

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Speaker 1: what's not, Lauren, I want to start off with a

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Speaker 1: question my producer samaraw Lnga has often asked, but we

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Speaker 1: don't really know. UM, I don't really know the answer,

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Speaker 1: and we haven't really gotten a solid one. After you

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Speaker 1: get vaccinated? Can you still transmit the disease? Can vaccinated

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Speaker 1: people still pass it on? It's a great question. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think the reason you haven't gotten satisfying answer is

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Speaker 1: because the work is still being done to understand that.

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Speaker 1: I know both Fightser and Maderna have studies ongoing where

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Speaker 1: they're looking at transmission, and so we do know that

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Speaker 1: it protects you against severe disease, protects you against hospitalization.

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Speaker 1: And the question you have to, you know, dig into

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Speaker 1: a little deeper, using specimens from the UM studies and

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Speaker 1: ongoing following of participants and their familial cohorts, is to

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Speaker 1: look at this. And that's the work that's happening right now.

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Speaker 1: We think the preliminary data shows that it is transmission blocking,

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Speaker 1: at least from I believe it's the Fiser and Maderna

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Speaker 1: vaccines that we have preliminary data from UM. But it's

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Speaker 1: sort of a wait and see situation where we hope

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Speaker 1: to continue to see good data that shows us that

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Speaker 1: it is, well, wait for how long, Lauren? I was

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Speaker 1: looking at the CDC guidelines about you know what fully

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Speaker 1: vaccinated people can and cannot do, and it says until

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Speaker 1: more is known to keep socially distancing, etcetera, etcetera. Until

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Speaker 1: more is known. Really is the operative line there? How

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Speaker 1: long until more is known? Yeah? I think so. We

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Speaker 1: already have the preliminary study. I believe it was out

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Speaker 1: of Israel that shows that the Fiser vaccine might block

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Speaker 1: transmission UM, which is promising for the rest of the

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Speaker 1: release for both of the m R and A vaccines UM.

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Speaker 1: So I think the until more is known is actually

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Speaker 1: right around the corner. We continue to learn more and

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Speaker 1: more every day about these vaccines UM, and the transmission

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Speaker 1: piece is really important, but it's it's also important to

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Speaker 1: remember that transmission blocking only happens when you get the vaccine,

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Speaker 1: so UM that all of that work is also happening

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Speaker 1: to encourage people to get vaccine UM as we continue

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Speaker 1: to learn about this piece is really really important. So

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Speaker 1: UM making sure that people are reporting if they have

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Speaker 1: breakthrough cases, going to their doctor, getting tested regularly, all

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Speaker 1: that gives us more and more information about whether or

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Speaker 1: not we're seeing transmission happening. So, Lauren, I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about one vaccine in particular, obviously in the news

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Speaker 1: this week is Johnson and Johnson's. Are you surprised that

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Speaker 1: there hasn't been a conclusion out of the CDC and

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Speaker 1: the advisory panel yet and that one might not come

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Speaker 1: until late next week at the earliest. I think we

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Speaker 1: were hoping to see UM out of that meeting that

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Speaker 1: just happened UM the day before yesterday. I believe it

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Speaker 1: was UM a decision. We understand that, you know, this

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Speaker 1: is sort of science happening in real time, and so

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Speaker 1: where many more people are exposed to the process, but

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Speaker 1: it can happen that they want more information. I would

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Speaker 1: love to see an outcome out of that next meeting

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Speaker 1: for a determination. I think the sooner we can get

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Speaker 1: back to giving J and J vaccine, even if it

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Speaker 1: is to a slightly different population. The Better Visor's CEO says,

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Speaker 1: we'll probably need boosters, maybe even a third dose. I

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Speaker 1: just talked this morning to the Cure Vac CEO out

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Speaker 1: of Tubing in Germany. He said, it's it's likely as well.

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Speaker 1: Are we going to be in a situation where we

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Speaker 1: continue to get boosters from these vaccines. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that there's a good chance that we will need boosters

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Speaker 1: for these vaccines. That that it perhaps it will look

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Speaker 1: something along the lines of how we get our vaccine

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Speaker 1: where the the vaccine strains are are evaluated during the

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Speaker 1: course of the year and then updated and boosters are given.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think in an ideal world, you could

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Speaker 1: even if we see that this booster schedule is similar

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Speaker 1: to something like flu, where you could put those vaccines

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Speaker 1: together and have one, you know, vaccine that covers both

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Speaker 1: flu and covid or um flu covid in RSC, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the all the all of the the sort of

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Speaker 1: seasonal diseases that we might potentially be exposed to that

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Speaker 1: we do have vaccine for. It'll take some work. Um

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Speaker 1: and you know MODERNA and Fiser are already updating their

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Speaker 1: vaccine that I think MODERNA already has an update based

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Speaker 1: on UM the B one I believe it's the B

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Speaker 1: one one seven variant UM. So the work is happening

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Speaker 1: to update the vaccines now, right, and then boosters will

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Speaker 1: be given. So, Laura, that's the booster. But when it

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Speaker 1: comes to just the initial inoculation as many as one

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Speaker 1: in three vaccines in the US are going unused in

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Speaker 1: some states, some in the South in particular. That's basically

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Speaker 1: as signed demand is slowing down. What do you chalk

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Speaker 1: that up to? Is that just hesitancy? I think it's

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Speaker 1: a mix of hesitancy and access. So the key with

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Speaker 1: fixing hesitancy is once you convince someone that the vaccine

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Speaker 1: is safe and effective and that they should get it,

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Speaker 1: and they make that decision, you have to make it

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Speaker 1: available for them, UM and they have to be able

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Speaker 1: to get it. So making sure that you have vaccine

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Speaker 1: site set up in places that populations that are a

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Speaker 1: little harder to reach can access, or people who maybe

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Speaker 1: don't have transportation or can't take off work for half

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Speaker 1: a day to wait in line at a mass vaccination site,

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Speaker 1: making it easy to get the way we do with

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Speaker 1: the flu vaccine UM. And so the hesitation piece is

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Speaker 1: really going to have to focus on messaging why this

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Speaker 1: vaccine is safe, right, reading why it's effective and important,

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Speaker 1: but also finding out what what is the barrier for them,

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Speaker 1: what would do they have concerns about, and trying to

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Speaker 1: answer those concerns. All right, Lauren, thanks very much. Laurence

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Speaker 1: hour there from John Johns Hopkins Universe. It as we

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Speaker 1: have learned, uh, certainly during this pandemic. Anyone can get

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Speaker 1: famous on social media, whether it's TikTok, YouTube or Instagram,

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Speaker 1: but it's a lot easier to make a living there

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Speaker 1: if you're white. Bloomberg's were needed Young In collaboration with Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: Quicktake explores how marketers are under paying black influencers while

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Speaker 1: pushing Black lives matter in this program. In this Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Radio special report, when I first started on TikTok, it

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Speaker 1: was already a big talk about how much the biggest

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Speaker 1: influencer on the app was making at the time. Comparing

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Speaker 1: that to what I was getting offered, I could tell.

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Speaker 1: Twenty two year old Sydney McCrae is an influencer and choreographer.

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Speaker 1: She's known widely for creating a viral dance to Magan

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Speaker 1: the Stallion six positive club banger Captain Hook. McCray noticed

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Speaker 1: a pay gap in the industry yes soon as she

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Speaker 1: first started making beauty tutorials on YouTube about a year ago,

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Speaker 1: and after the viral post where she explained her dance

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Speaker 1: step by step, the popular videos attracted more than four

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand likes within weeks of posting. Many of TikTok's

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Speaker 1: top stars performed their versions of McRae's choreography, also helping

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Speaker 1: the song soar in popularity. Then in April, Megan V.

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Speaker 1: Stallion herself joined in and McCray started gaining followers by

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Speaker 1: the thousands. Now she has one point one million TikTok

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Speaker 1: followers and she's verified. But she and other black digital

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Speaker 1: content creator said none of that talent or impact mattered

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Speaker 1: in the multibillion dollar global market for brand endorsement on

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Speaker 1: social media. As a content creator, seeing all of the

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Speaker 1: things that we can do for an artist or a company,

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Speaker 1: in receiving such little pay for our artistic creations, it

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Speaker 1: was a slap in the face. Really, boy, that's why

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Speaker 1: your hairline going tobaccio net. Then there's influencer in sketch

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Speaker 1: comic Kinney Knox, who started posting videos on the now

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Speaker 1: defunct six second video app Vine. The twenty two year

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Speaker 1: old followers swelled to one point six million, and he

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Speaker 1: became one of the top creators on the app. Yet

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Speaker 1: he did not get any offers for brand deals. But

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Speaker 1: he noticed his non black peers who didn't have as

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Speaker 1: many followers or activity as him did get work with

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Speaker 1: the big brands. It was weird because it was like

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Speaker 1: I'm going viral with every video, but no company is

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Speaker 1: even looking my way. When it comes to twenty five

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Speaker 1: year old Landon Moss, this influencer and actor once had

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Speaker 1: a huge brand deal with a couple of other influencers

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Speaker 1: on the same contracts. I come to find out that

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Speaker 1: they had made like devil of what I was making,

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Speaker 1: and one of them had way less followers. In me,

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Speaker 1: it was just weird to me that he had made

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Speaker 1: more money than me with less followers. And then to

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Speaker 1: think about like what I was originally offered, Like what

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Speaker 1: did they offer him? He some up the influencer pay

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Speaker 1: gap Like this. Racism isn't exclusive to a certain field,

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Speaker 1: and so even when you have new fields like the

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Speaker 1: influencer industry, it's gonna make its way in there too,

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Speaker 1: mccraine mos said Knox tell Bloomberg Quick Take. White influencers

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Speaker 1: have reposted their work or stolen their ideas which then

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Speaker 1: went viral on those accounts, but they the original creators,

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Speaker 1: got no credit. People take advantage of like black creatives

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Speaker 1: like this trend and it's all fun, and then so

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Speaker 1: on profits off something that a black career started, and

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Speaker 1: then they get praise and fame, and you know, and

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Speaker 1: when that's just the piece of us and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: stop there. These influencers say they have to be extra

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Speaker 1: careful about what they say, where, how they look, what

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Speaker 1: causes they support, so they won't offend any of the brands. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: they say they're white peers get away with more explicit

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Speaker 1: posts with merely a slap on the wrist from big brands.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons why it's been such a difficult

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Speaker 1: experience for many black creators is because traditionally, in Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: racial biases have tended to flow from the top. Executives

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Speaker 1: hire white directors and producers, who in turn work with

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Speaker 1: white casting agents who cast white actors. Whenever black talent

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Speaker 1: is considered, it's often for roles or projects that specifically

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Speaker 1: require it. Social media companies have often promoted diversity initiatives,

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Speaker 1: but in practice they're not much different. Inter Summer, when

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Speaker 1: the police killing of George Floyd forced America into a

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Speaker 1: racial reckoning and sparked an international Black Lives Matter movement,

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Speaker 1: brands gained a strong desire to work with black influencers,

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Speaker 1: and black talent managers started getting more calls for their

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Speaker 1: black creators. Knox interpreted those moves this way. Appreciate the

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Speaker 1: brands working with the black creators and starting to go

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Speaker 1: in that direction, but it wasn't a trend that they

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Speaker 1: wanted to work when more black creators because they felt guilty.

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Speaker 1: Knox Masson McRae are hoping for a more equitable influencer

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Speaker 1: industry going forward. What I hope to see change in

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Speaker 1: the industry is the black creatives get the credit that

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Speaker 1: we deserve, genuine appreciation for Black creators, not just when

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Speaker 1: it's convenient, and even playing field when it comes to

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Speaker 1: creators of all colors, specifically black creators, giving them that

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Speaker 1: same energy that they're giving the white creators, and they're

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Speaker 1: hoping hashtag higher Black Creatives is not just a trend

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Speaker 1: or relegated to the diversity section, but baked into the

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Speaker 1: culture of brands in New York. I'm rent a Young.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio are many thanks to Ronda Young along with

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Take for that special report and Matt and

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Speaker 1: I are so lucky Rnita is joining us now in

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Speaker 1: studio or joining me now in studio, I should say

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Speaker 1: here in New York, Rnita, it was a great report.

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Speaker 1: You're here in spirit, Matt. Where is the sense for

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Speaker 1: the reporting you did of where the impetus needs to

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Speaker 1: come from for this to really change in a sticky way?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think that the sense is it needs

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Speaker 1: to not only come from a real place, but that

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Speaker 1: that's really what people mean when they say intentionality. It

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Speaker 1: needs to be an intentional elevation of these black talent

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Speaker 1: and other talent of color to the same level that

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Speaker 1: their white counterparts see, experience feel. So what about the

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Speaker 1: the income they generate for um, for the platforms. Have

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Speaker 1: you seen that black influeners influencers generate the same amount

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Speaker 1: of income for a YouTube, for example, than their white counterparts. Well,

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Speaker 1: in the article that Sarah Fryer wrote for Bloomberg Business Week,

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Speaker 1: it was in our diversity issue, UM, you can see

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Speaker 1: that one of the influencers said he made get this

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Speaker 1: one tenth what his white counterparts made, and he had

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Speaker 1: more followers and more engagement, more content as well. Is

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Speaker 1: there pressure from users on the platform for this to change?

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Speaker 1: We've seen that, you know, with investments, investors are making

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Speaker 1: companies pushed towards e s G. Do TikTok users have

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Speaker 1: that same power? You know, that's pretty interesting question there.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine that there is a conversation going on

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Speaker 1: about that, but I do not know. Uh, definitely, but

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Speaker 1: you'd expect something like that to happen, especially as the

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Speaker 1: work that you and Sarah Fryer have done gets more play.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much for that report, Rndy Young. Thanks for

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00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and

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00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform

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00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt

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00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,959
Speaker 1: Miller three. Put on false Sweeney I'm on Twitter at

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00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: pt Sweeney before the podcast. You can always catch us

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Speaker 1: worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.