Speaker 1: From Vice and I heart this is authentic. I'm Dexon
Speaker 1: Thomas and this is the first of two bonus episodes
Speaker 1: FIP hop. So today we're gonna do something a little
Speaker 1: bit different. We're gonna do kind of a two version
Speaker 1: of the round Table discussion, meaning that we can't actually
Speaker 1: physically be around the round table, but we're gonna have
Speaker 1: digitally me Tableau and Kyle, who is our composer and
Speaker 1: sound engineer, and so yeah, I wanted to get us
Speaker 1: together just to talk about the thing that's really at
Speaker 1: the center of the series, which is music. So tab Lou,
Speaker 1: we got you beaming in from your home in South Korea.
Speaker 1: Tell was good to talk to you again, Hey guys. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and we got, of course Kyle Murdock here, So Tableau,
Speaker 1: I got to introduce you to Kyle Um. He's a
Speaker 1: man behind the curtain. He's the sound designer, the sound
Speaker 1: engineer for Vice Audio, and he actually fully composed all
Speaker 1: the music for the entire series, including the theme song.
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about that in a little
Speaker 1: bit Um. But also Kyle is also a DJ and
Speaker 1: a producer in his own right, and back in the
Speaker 1: day he was signed to Rockets records with your group Pantasy,
Speaker 1: Is that right, Rockets? Right? Yeah? Yeah, oh damn yeah,
Speaker 1: I've heard your stuff. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, really anything
Speaker 1: from Rockets I've I've heard, okay. Yeah, this is what okay,
Speaker 1: And this is why I wanted to introduce you to
Speaker 1: Right because you know, one of the big things that
Speaker 1: brought us together is this really you know, deep and
Speaker 1: I think important story. But the thing that really, you know,
Speaker 1: taboo you and I brought us together fundamentally in the
Speaker 1: background is music. Right. It's hip hop when we would
Speaker 1: not have been having any of this conversation, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't for that. And you know, even in the last
Speaker 1: you know, a few months since we talked, Tableau, I
Speaker 1: know a bunch has changed since we last met. You
Speaker 1: released a whole album, which when we were talking it
Speaker 1: was I think it was the track list was written
Speaker 1: in in dry race marker on the door. You were
Speaker 1: still trying to figure out the order. So that's out now,
Speaker 1: and um and Kyle, you know, we we put together
Speaker 1: the series and really put on all this work to
Speaker 1: make it kind of sound cohesive. So one thing that
Speaker 1: I think a lot about with with music right is
Speaker 1: it's something we've lost with streaming, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: streaming is great, but being able to go to somebody's
Speaker 1: house and look at their CD collection or you know,
Speaker 1: the iTunes collection just say okay, I get it. I
Speaker 1: have a pretty good idea of who who this person is,
Speaker 1: where their background is so tableau. If you were to
Speaker 1: narrow it down just two or three, what would be
Speaker 1: the records that made you you? You know what, what
Speaker 1: turned young Dan Lee into tableau? I think Nirvana's never
Speaker 1: Mind mm hmm uh and also Teller Quality, most de
Speaker 1: Black Star album okay uh. And I hate to leave
Speaker 1: Illmatic out of it, but I think I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to go with Snoop Dogg. Really yeah, his first album,
Speaker 1: Doggy Style. Why that is? That is pretty eclectic? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Dog Style? Like I could have guessed by listening to
Speaker 1: your first record, I wouldn't have guessed Nirvana. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have guessed never Mind. Really, I was really into um, Nirvana,
Speaker 1: Smashing Pumpkins. I've always loved hip hop and rock, and
Speaker 1: it's sort of represents who I became when I was
Speaker 1: listening to the to the albums that I just mentioned,
Speaker 1: I think that's sort of where I I was becoming
Speaker 1: who I was supposed to be. I felt very at
Speaker 1: home with those records. Kyle, what about you. Let's see
Speaker 1: a trap called quest my big huge tropical question. Um,
Speaker 1: And I can't pick really between the low End Theory
Speaker 1: and Midnight Marauders, so I'm just gonna say they'll take
Speaker 1: up two of those three slots. Low end theory. Low
Speaker 1: end theory, I mean low end theory. I got some fine.
Speaker 1: I have fond memories of both, but yeah, I I
Speaker 1: can lean towards lowand theory. That was the first cassette
Speaker 1: tape I bought UM back in, which is crazy I'm
Speaker 1: dating myself, but anyway, and I guess from my third
Speaker 1: it would be De las So delas So is Dead.
Speaker 1: Like I really love skits, which is probably why I
Speaker 1: got into like sound design and creating scenes with sound
Speaker 1: um and principle Like that album to me was like
Speaker 1: the first time I had really heard anyone like use
Speaker 1: you know, besides songs like have a thematic kind of
Speaker 1: through line through an album, and I thought it was
Speaker 1: really cool. And again that was I think so something
Speaker 1: about that year. I was only eleven, but you were
Speaker 1: listening to all this stuff too, right, that will Yeah,
Speaker 1: try to call quest was actually a name that popped
Speaker 1: up when you asked for three records. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of savage you're asking for asking someone to
Speaker 1: choose a top three, like even a top five. You know,
Speaker 1: I hate having to ever choose, you know, the top
Speaker 1: five thing? Yeah, top three is just cruel. What are
Speaker 1: your what are your top three albums? Then? For for
Speaker 1: this question, Uh, I three is hard? Um obviously I
Speaker 1: would say me is probably Wu Tang Forever, Dick over
Speaker 1: thirty six Chambers. See I I I would taboo. You
Speaker 1: and I have sort of a similar situation and that
Speaker 1: our parents didn't really want us listen to this stuff,
Speaker 1: and so I found Um, I don't know if you
Speaker 1: know this, but Walmart back in the day would carry
Speaker 1: sort of sanitized versions of all the big records. So
Speaker 1: if your parents wouldn't let you have the explicit lyrics
Speaker 1: go on, you could just go to the Walmart. They
Speaker 1: had Wu Tang Forever at Walmart and you could buy
Speaker 1: it and everything was edited out. But it was cooler
Speaker 1: because it had kung Fu sound effects over the over
Speaker 1: the curses, so it actually sounded cool. It wasn't just
Speaker 1: it wasn't bleeps, it was burning. It was yo. I
Speaker 1: highly recommend it to anybody. So if you basically did it,
Speaker 1: oh no, you can tell you. You can tell. They
Speaker 1: didn't give it to the A and R. They didn't
Speaker 1: give it to the sensor. They said, Rizza, we need
Speaker 1: you to make this and he said, okay, yeah, I
Speaker 1: got a bunch of Kung Fu samples. I'll do it.
Speaker 1: I would say that. And this compilation this uh, it
Speaker 1: was MTV Amp two, but it was just a bunch
Speaker 1: of electronic music, which is nobody around me listened to.
Speaker 1: And I was just the only person. I'm listening to
Speaker 1: drumm and bass and techno. I don't know what any
Speaker 1: of this stuff is because nobody in my hometown knew
Speaker 1: what this was. But it just, you know, that's what
Speaker 1: actually got me into DJ and you know, doing college
Speaker 1: radio stuff. Probably those and two very strange picks. Yeah
Speaker 1: clean clean version of Utan Forever and MTV app Yeah
Speaker 1: man too, because that's what that's what there was. That's
Speaker 1: what they had at the store. Drum roll for the
Speaker 1: third one, what's your third pick? Why? Cleft John's the Carnival.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's my favorite record, But I am saying, yes,
Speaker 1: the skits, the skits are phenomenal and just the through
Speaker 1: line between everything he takes you just places you didn't
Speaker 1: think you were gonna go the set? Are you talking
Speaker 1: about the song? Pocket? You talking about? That was like
Speaker 1: from another But if I was to take it to
Speaker 1: things that I thought really hit me musically, it would
Speaker 1: probably be Eric about duds debut a fourth Yo. You
Speaker 1: you you went. You kind of fudged it to man,
Speaker 1: Come on, You're allowed to do that. I'm the host,
Speaker 1: bro okay, whatever, Okay, But but speaking speaking about that, okay,
Speaker 1: I think we have all these but part of that,
Speaker 1: I want to take this back a little bit. One
Speaker 1: of the things that that we worked a lot on
Speaker 1: is uh is the theme song. And so you know,
Speaker 1: I know, I know you're you're usually in the other seat,
Speaker 1: but maybe I'll ask you to sort of be the
Speaker 1: music journalists here tableau. Um, the theme song? How do
Speaker 1: you feel about theme song? For this one? I loved it,
Speaker 1: And I also loved the rest of the audio production.
Speaker 1: I mean it, I only heard the first two episodes
Speaker 1: as we're doing this right now, and um, the audio
Speaker 1: production was like miles above what I imagined it could
Speaker 1: be because we just had conversations, but it became like
Speaker 1: it became something because of the audio production and the music.
Speaker 1: Everything was so so good. So Kyle like, seriously, thank you,
Speaker 1: you did an amazing job. Yeah, it was awesome, man,
Speaker 1: just working on it, just helping to tell your story,
Speaker 1: you know, um, plus as a music producer, you know,
Speaker 1: at the flex a little bit and just let people
Speaker 1: know it's funny because tell what you may me not
Speaker 1: realize this, but I listened to your early records and
Speaker 1: I was putting that plus the stuff you were saying,
Speaker 1: because I was kind of in the back of my mind,
Speaker 1: I knew, Okay, we're gonna have to have a theme song.
Speaker 1: Do we do this? So we were actually kind of
Speaker 1: trying to reverse engineer young dan Lee Young tableau into
Speaker 1: what sounds like something he would have dug And so
Speaker 1: Kyle and I went back and forth on this. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just all right, man. You know that there's gotta
Speaker 1: be some horns in there that sounds like Pete Rock
Speaker 1: and we we we were arguing over the bpm. He
Speaker 1: added a hundred. I was just yo, slow, you gotta
Speaker 1: slow down the nine four and he's all right, man,
Speaker 1: we'll try it. And it was a lot. It was
Speaker 1: a lot, So I'm gonna feel like it. That's a
Speaker 1: very That's an interesting way to like produce a bat
Speaker 1: you know, reverse engineering it so that it reflects someone's life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And like I've been making music about my story for
Speaker 1: like two decades and I don't think I've ever done that.
Speaker 1: It was a fun challenge to say the least. Shout
Speaker 1: out to one of our producers, Stuff Big, because she
Speaker 1: sent a Spotify playlist of like all your influences or
Speaker 1: you know, like from from obviously Atomatic to um Bob Dylan,
Speaker 1: and it was like, yo, what Yeah, it just has
Speaker 1: to sound like the Atomatic and Bob Dylan. Yeah, right, right,
Speaker 1: right right. I think when you do music and both
Speaker 1: of you all can can speak this so just as
Speaker 1: a creative like it should be a challenge, Like there's
Speaker 1: no challenger. It makes the you know, the end result
Speaker 1: like not as satisfying. You know, if if you think
Speaker 1: about even just how it started, right and you know,
Speaker 1: just I think when all the peoples are coming up,
Speaker 1: we all grew up, you know, three separate places, and
Speaker 1: we have these different influences, but there's something about just
Speaker 1: how hip hop culture works, where if you're gonna do
Speaker 1: it right, you have to have the background, you have
Speaker 1: to have kind of this knowledge of it. I mean
Speaker 1: even if you go way back to the first parties
Speaker 1: and you know in New York, Yeah, it was this
Speaker 1: new genre. But what were they playing. They were playing
Speaker 1: their parents records, and so you had to know about
Speaker 1: just all you have to know all of this different
Speaker 1: music and I mean, tallow, that's something you could hear,
Speaker 1: especially in your first few records. Yeah, like soul samples
Speaker 1: weren't really a thing yet in Korea at the time.
Speaker 1: Um and Uh. We we wanted to make sure that
Speaker 1: the album reflected the things that we were listening to, um,
Speaker 1: you know growing up that the music that we liked.
Speaker 1: We wanted the first album to reflect the influences all
Speaker 1: of those rappers and hip hop musicians that influenced us.
Speaker 1: I didn't want it to just sound like illmatic. I
Speaker 1: wanted it to sound like what Nas must have been
Speaker 1: listening to when he was a kid. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: it had to be like a crash course for um,
Speaker 1: everybody in Korea that you know, it was just finding
Speaker 1: rap a novelty at the time. Um, we had to
Speaker 1: explain like the whole sampling thing and how it's not plagiarism,
Speaker 1: and there there's still debates about like sampling, like how
Speaker 1: how can you take someone else's music and just put
Speaker 1: some drums on it? And we're like a lot more
Speaker 1: is happening than that. Yeah, and uh but but yeah,
Speaker 1: like it's not like everyone's still it's not like everyone
Speaker 1: already gets it immediately, but um, but it's it's a
Speaker 1: lot better than before. Since you've if we've talked, you've
Speaker 1: dropped an entire album and there's a whole bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1: There's a big catalog we can go through. So I've
Speaker 1: spent a bunch of time in your music. But also
Speaker 1: know the Kyle has um, you know, what the hell
Speaker 1: did you just do it? Like this? Kyle? You got
Speaker 1: a favorite? You got a favorite track? You gotta favorite
Speaker 1: every high song. I think the album that has kind
Speaker 1: of you know, resonated with me the most map of
Speaker 1: the human soul. I think it's really resonated just and
Speaker 1: I can hear it like because it's it's interesting. Like
Speaker 1: when I started listening to it, I had to go
Speaker 1: and I was like, when when was this release? Because
Speaker 1: now it makes sense that you're saying that you all
Speaker 1: were somewhat playing cash up. We're not you, per se,
Speaker 1: but the people in Korea listening because that style with
Speaker 1: chopping up in the boom bap like almost like the
Speaker 1: DJ Premier style with the cuts and stuff. We in
Speaker 1: the US have been spoiled. We've been doing that since
Speaker 1: like the you know, ill matic and p rocking Seale
Speaker 1: smooth Gangstar like, so it's interesting to hear it's almost
Speaker 1: like it was a few years later. But it's also
Speaker 1: you gotta key perspective trying to keep it pool not
Speaker 1: int Safina walk. So Hannibal this actlutely. I was working
Speaker 1: with the producer. I told him, I want to do
Speaker 1: something that sounds like de La Soul. So you're you're
Speaker 1: totally right, Like, uh, we were trying to like capture
Speaker 1: things that we felt for the for the decade building
Speaker 1: up to when we released their first album. Because by
Speaker 1: the time we released their first album, people had moved
Speaker 1: on to like Swiss beats, beats um a lot of
Speaker 1: meaty uh and you know the whole like chopping up
Speaker 1: and using vinyl samples was sort of uh, not in
Speaker 1: fashion at the time already. So in Korea, what was strange?
Speaker 1: They just jumped from very amateurish beats too, like what
Speaker 1: was trending, like Swiss beats um and also like you know,
Speaker 1: the whole like Destiny's Child kind of beats, like very
Speaker 1: highly produced and yeah yeah, and they had just skipped
Speaker 1: over like the entire nineties with the with the cassio keyboards,
Speaker 1: like I used to hate Swiss beats with the that
Speaker 1: was his thing, like he would hit a key and
Speaker 1: it would make a scratch. Let go, jigga, jigga. I
Speaker 1: was like, dude, where that was great? And now it's amazing.
Speaker 1: Now it's like now, yeah, man, people don't make beats
Speaker 1: like Swiss beats and no more right, you know, you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: I want to take this sort of a different direction
Speaker 1: because mine, my personal favorite actually track is wish you
Speaker 1: were Hm. That's it for me, man. For the last
Speaker 1: few years, it's been so I've been to stay home
Speaker 1: there my daughter to sell the pain and whisper stay
Speaker 1: home and people's take. I have a lot of thoughts
Speaker 1: about that, but I would love to hear yours. Where
Speaker 1: where were you when you were making that? What what
Speaker 1: prompted that? Yeah, like we didn't have this when that
Speaker 1: album was done. Basically it was felt like the album
Speaker 1: needed a proper last track, and you know, you know,
Speaker 1: as producers, you know like, um, some beats and some
Speaker 1: songs take like months to finish, yeah, and then there
Speaker 1: are songs that like literally take ten fifteen minutes and
Speaker 1: you feel like you have it. Yeah. I just went
Speaker 1: into booth and I was like, I'm just gonna do
Speaker 1: like one two lines at a time, and I'll try
Speaker 1: to come up with the lyrics. And that's why it
Speaker 1: sort of just sounds like half narration, not even really
Speaker 1: a full rap. So what was it you were tapping into?
Speaker 1: Because I'm the good about what you're saying, right, yeah? Um.
Speaker 1: So at this time, uh, there was like this whole
Speaker 1: thing going on like online, like in in hip hop
Speaker 1: forums and even in our fan chats about like how
Speaker 1: EPICCAI is. You know, they're all you know, two of
Speaker 1: them are dads. Yeah, but you know like their dad's
Speaker 1: you know, they're old. Some of our fans were just
Speaker 1: shipping on us and someone called me like a stay
Speaker 1: home dad and um, and I'm like, well, aren't we
Speaker 1: all like stay home at this time? And that's where
Speaker 1: like the whole uh exchange with my daughter thing happens
Speaker 1: because I told her, I was like, you know, people
Speaker 1: are calling me like a dad, which I am, but
Speaker 1: you know, when you call a rapper a dad, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that they mean it and a good way.
Speaker 1: And She's like, I like it that you're you're a
Speaker 1: stay at home dad. I mean, for me, this is
Speaker 1: why I like it. Honestly for me, man, that track
Speaker 1: is the best disk track of the last past few
Speaker 1: years that I've heard it, hands down, Yes, bro it
Speaker 1: that it's cold because I think in some ways it's
Speaker 1: very you know, it's it's very thoughtful, right, But the
Speaker 1: in in the back of it, I also here you
Speaker 1: where are your priorities? You know what I mean. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm being a great dad. How is that not something
Speaker 1: you think is a good idea? We're all very used to.
Speaker 1: And I love this stuff, right, I love listening to
Speaker 1: rappers rap about you know, the cars and the money
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. But yo, I'm chilling with my daughter. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think even with uh, the the stuff
Speaker 1: that I went through, UM, which you know was at
Speaker 1: the center of authentic UM. I think one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why I was able to withstand it a bit.
Speaker 1: It's because people usually attack what they think is important
Speaker 1: to you, and in hip hop, they will attack your ego. Um,
Speaker 1: they'll say something like, you know, you know, you're poor,
Speaker 1: like your your record sales aren't doing good, you're washed up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, it's all status stuff. Yeah. But the
Speaker 1: thing is, uh, none of that ever really mattered to me.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that like I'm above it, but it's
Speaker 1: just I'm a different person and those things aren't at
Speaker 1: the top of my priority list. Yeah. And that's kind
Speaker 1: of what I was here, you know with even with
Speaker 1: the title wish you were It's like, Yo, I'm I've evolved, man,
Speaker 1: get on my level. I cook really good round from
Speaker 1: my daughter. Dude, I am if we get together when
Speaker 1: I'm in the States, I'm making Roman for you guys.
Speaker 1: I am literally top like, not even top five, I'm
Speaker 1: like top one or two Lamar or j Cole of Raman. Okay,
Speaker 1: I want to keep going with this, but we gotta
Speaker 1: take a quick break. We'll be right back. So we're back.
Speaker 1: And and one thing I wanted to touch on a
Speaker 1: little bit is, you know, aside from the music that
Speaker 1: there's a sound design, right, which sometimes may not be
Speaker 1: so obvious, but but it's really part of what what
Speaker 1: helps you go to a place, what helps you feel
Speaker 1: like you're somewhere. So I want to throw this to you, Kyle, Um,
Speaker 1: was there was there anything that you found challenging about
Speaker 1: bringing this ory sort of alive because you know, me,
Speaker 1: me and Tally we just sort of chopped it up
Speaker 1: for hours, right, you had to make people feel like
Speaker 1: they were there in the room with us. At another
Speaker 1: prior job, they used to cause audio animators and I
Speaker 1: like that because it's like the idea of taking things
Speaker 1: that you normally would see or image and using sound
Speaker 1: to bring them to life. So, Um, I think about
Speaker 1: two things stand out to me. Um. One of them
Speaker 1: was Hung Day scene. That that scene in particular because
Speaker 1: it reminded me of being in college. Yeah yeah, yeah, Kyle.
Speaker 1: I mean love what you're saying here because a lot
Speaker 1: of this, you know, the way, the thing that made
Speaker 1: it work was being able to hear us there. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna play this right now. Hung Day is the
Speaker 1: name for a neighborhood that's around hung University, and in
Speaker 1: the early two thousand's it was the hip hangout for
Speaker 1: young people who were into art and music all right,
Speaker 1: one to one to check one two one two. During
Speaker 1: the daytime hung they looked like any other college area,
Speaker 1: small cafes, boutique shops, that kind of thing. But at night,
Speaker 1: the local pubs, bars and clubs transformed the neighborhood. The
Speaker 1: central gathering points was this neighborhood, and also specifically there
Speaker 1: was most of the nightlife targeted young college kids, so
Speaker 1: the drinks were cheap, the music was loud, and a
Speaker 1: lot of the clubs were literally underground. It's amazing, um
Speaker 1: because I actually lived it right and um, as I
Speaker 1: was listening through, like hearing it right now, like with
Speaker 1: my eyes closed. Um, it really does feel like I'm
Speaker 1: back there, you know it just with the uh, with
Speaker 1: the music, but also the way the noise is overlaid
Speaker 1: on it. Um, it really does take you back. And
Speaker 1: and I love that that phrase audio animator. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: start using the I'm putting that on my LinkedIn like
Speaker 1: because that's so accurate. Um. Yeah, I really believe where
Speaker 1: in an age now where audio is is so much
Speaker 1: more powerful than people know. How did you how do
Speaker 1: you take us there? Just listening. And also I think
Speaker 1: story beats, like making sure there's this room for like
Speaker 1: literally the beats I'm putting into actually like breathe and
Speaker 1: like hit four minutes, like to break up the narration.
Speaker 1: Good writing. So shout out to our producer Stuff k
Speaker 1: who wrote that episode. I've been working as an audio
Speaker 1: animator since I left college in two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: and obviously it takes iteration. It took some hours, and
Speaker 1: like if people saw the amount of time I was spending,
Speaker 1: particularly just doing one que and one scene, they'd be like,
Speaker 1: that's crazy, But I'm like, no, that's art. Tabloo kind
Speaker 1: of has the I think I've seen this before, the
Speaker 1: sort of the I'm taking notes. Look, okay, I see this.
Speaker 1: Hell's done. I'm thinking to myself, I need a beat
Speaker 1: from Kyle. Yo. That can be a rain next time
Speaker 1: we do something, I need to beat from Kyle because like, dude,
Speaker 1: it's just it was really good. Thanks man, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: I saw I saw you nod in your head as
Speaker 1: it was going Yeah, when you're closing your eyes and
Speaker 1: dot in your head. I felt that I need a
Speaker 1: Kyle beat. Yeah, that are you kidding me? That's like
Speaker 1: the greatest compliment. That's the biggest thing. I was asking
Speaker 1: all the time, all the producers. I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: I'm glad y'all like it, but I I would like
Speaker 1: it like this is his story, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Like he has to be proud of it too. So anyway,
Speaker 1: that's thank you, that's awesome, and please let's collaborate for sure.
Speaker 1: Yo yo yo. I think I think we we accomplished
Speaker 1: something today. There's something Melson there speaking of Hungay, right,
Speaker 1: there's the restaurant across the way the we went to.
Speaker 1: You remember that one? Yeah, yet that you're going there?
Speaker 1: So talking to j Win, it was wow because I
Speaker 1: think the woman, probably the you know, was running the place.
Speaker 1: It's the same person was running it. So I went
Speaker 1: in and it's it's a tiny little place you're talking about,
Speaker 1: the place with the the the grandma. Yes, okay, I
Speaker 1: was there yesterday, no joke, no joke. She was really
Speaker 1: mad at me for not showing up for a while.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, she got really mad. But um, you know,
Speaker 1: she she's like it's like it's like it's like a mother,
Speaker 1: you know. And she tried to make us like just
Speaker 1: leave without paying. So h one of us had to
Speaker 1: distract her and then we we used the machine and
Speaker 1: we we charged ourselves. Basically, what's interesting is the only
Speaker 1: aartists that she uh remembers and still knows that that
Speaker 1: was always there um is us and g Dragon and
Speaker 1: Twang from Big Bang. So if you go there, you
Speaker 1: must have seen the pictures. There aren't many pictures. It's
Speaker 1: just Epiccai and she Dragon and Tang And I'm like
Speaker 1: something was in the food because it's maybe the last
Speaker 1: thing left of uh of at Piccai in Home Day
Speaker 1: at that time. Yeah, everything else is gone. So there's
Speaker 1: kind of speaking of that that early arrow, right, Um,
Speaker 1: I know one of the things that we got into
Speaker 1: in the episode, on some of the episodes a little
Speaker 1: bit was just the ability to explore sort of different styles, right.
Speaker 1: And then how in the early days, you know, hip
Speaker 1: hoppy could be kind of kind of insular, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean a very sort of No, it's got to
Speaker 1: sound sound like this tablet wood, you know. How looking back,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about that that time when you
Speaker 1: know you were getting some static from the hardcore hip
Speaker 1: hop heads about about your sound, you know, especially for
Speaker 1: your third album. I mean, I didn't disagree with them.
Speaker 1: You know, I was fully aware of what I was
Speaker 1: doing and the uh backlash or whatever I would get.
Speaker 1: I think it's just the way I was raised. Um
Speaker 1: My parents, as you know now, were extremely strict. So
Speaker 1: the more they try to make me not do something,
Speaker 1: the more I would, you know, the harder I would
Speaker 1: work to do it. And I think that was the
Speaker 1: same case with with doing music in Korea. Like when
Speaker 1: I came in into hip hop, like I really had
Speaker 1: this fantasy expectation of you know, the hip hop scene
Speaker 1: must be different. You know, there's the industry, but there's
Speaker 1: the hip hop scene. And the hip hop scene in
Speaker 1: Korea wasn't big at the time, so I felt like
Speaker 1: it it should be very, very tight, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just it's like a it's like a whole underground
Speaker 1: vibe and we're all in this together. We're experimenting and
Speaker 1: all this stuff. But it was just as close minded
Speaker 1: as the industry. Like immediately, um, you know, they didn't
Speaker 1: want us to sound a certain way, and I did
Speaker 1: hip hop because I wanted to like go against the grain.
Speaker 1: But yeah, if I have to abide by these rules, uh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hate doing this, and the only way I
Speaker 1: can love it is going in the exact opposite direction
Speaker 1: and pushing it so far that they eventually have to
Speaker 1: accept it, which is actually what happened. Um, after we
Speaker 1: did that for years and got basically shipped on by
Speaker 1: the hip hop heads, they all started doing like E
Speaker 1: D M and like you know, one PM, they all
Speaker 1: started doing like vocal features MHM and and now and
Speaker 1: now we're back to like just beats and wraps and stuff.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's hilarious how things change. Yeah, man, I mean, Kyle,
Speaker 1: you were you were on rockies at this point. What
Speaker 1: I mean, so you were in the middle of that conversation.
Speaker 1: What was that like for you? Because artist wise, you know,
Speaker 1: you're you're pretty contemporary to each other. Yeah. I signed
Speaker 1: a rock Gison end of two thousand and five, so
Speaker 1: I think it was right after Swan songs. And even
Speaker 1: aside from rockets, it's a funny story that kind of
Speaker 1: overlaps with epic High because back when I was an
Speaker 1: audio animator, I worked for a company then called x
Speaker 1: M Radio satellite radio, but now it's serious x and Radio,
Speaker 1: And that was my day job as an audio animator engineer.
Speaker 1: But in the on the side, I hosted a We
Speaker 1: called it progressive hip hop because we didn't want to
Speaker 1: say backpacker, independent, underground. We just went to brand the
Speaker 1: different and we were trying to play stuff that was
Speaker 1: just out the box, like you know, um And ironically
Speaker 1: we were getting Service records from different places across the
Speaker 1: world and we got epic Highs album. And it's funny because, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think in a lot of ways, what you all
Speaker 1: were doing with uh Fly was actually no one was
Speaker 1: doing that in two thousand and five. Like the music
Speaker 1: we were playing on the Service at the time was
Speaker 1: probably was not sounded like that. So in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways, you all were kind of ahead of the
Speaker 1: trend that eventually I feel like it was adopted more
Speaker 1: here where you would hear stuff again that's a little
Speaker 1: bit more up tempo, a little bit more dance here
Speaker 1: with with vocal features, because a lot of stuff we
Speaker 1: played was more boom bab, you know, even in two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, And the stuff that I was doing
Speaker 1: on Rockets was kind of like was was probably more
Speaker 1: akin to what you were doing on Fly. With my
Speaker 1: group Pannasya, it was like the opposite thing. Like the
Speaker 1: label folded in two thousand nine, and um, we we
Speaker 1: went back to being independent and I got more into
Speaker 1: radio and you know, so it's like not a dream
Speaker 1: defer because I'm very happy that about that time, but
Speaker 1: it's like, it's just cool to see that across the world.
Speaker 1: And so this was happening to a group that was
Speaker 1: similar and y'all, y'all did it. So yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 1: It's a cool story, that's an interesting overlap. It's it's
Speaker 1: so weird. Yeah, yeah, I definitely remember getting the album.
Speaker 1: It's so weird because yeah, like I said, y'all two
Speaker 1: actually knew each other. You you two knew each other's work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you didn't even know that. Yeah, and then here
Speaker 1: it is, we're we're all working on the same project together.
Speaker 1: And and of course, like the way we went against
Speaker 1: the grain is kind of different from what other people
Speaker 1: in the States or something like it might be used
Speaker 1: to with like progressive. Um, but I've a I've always
Speaker 1: been been a fan of that. Like trick called Quest
Speaker 1: I loved for that precise reason. Gala Soul, Black Alicious,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, Hieroglyphics, all of these artists were
Speaker 1: even far side was you know, like perfect name because
Speaker 1: it was really far out ye. And I've always been
Speaker 1: a fan of that, and I just did it in
Speaker 1: my in the way that was possible for me in
Speaker 1: Korea at the time. So there's there's one thing taboo
Speaker 1: that that you said to me during the course of
Speaker 1: our interview, right, And you were talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: suffering as an artist, right, and I it was something
Speaker 1: like that. A lot of people say that, you know
Speaker 1: that there's sort of this idea that we have of
Speaker 1: the tortured artist, right, and it's suffering births great art.
Speaker 1: And you said something that really hit me. Would you said,
Speaker 1: it's it's not worth it? Yeah, Like, honestly, I liked
Speaker 1: it until I became it mm hmmm. Uh. I had
Speaker 1: and idealized, you know, view of that as well. Growing up,
Speaker 1: I always identified with artists who had suffered a lot
Speaker 1: until I became that artist and I realized, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's I'm human, and so so were all these artists
Speaker 1: that I was looking up to. They shouldn't have had
Speaker 1: to go through all of that to to give me
Speaker 1: inspiration or give me a song, or give me a
Speaker 1: film or a book. How do you communicate that to
Speaker 1: a fan that Yo, this whole tortured artist narrative, this story,
Speaker 1: this storyline is actually destructive. Yeah, because the love that
Speaker 1: fans show an artist, I appreciate it fully, one, I
Speaker 1: fully appreciate it. But we can't say that it's permanent. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think just communicating that, or even even communicating they're
Speaker 1: even having that conversation. It seems so so difficult because
Speaker 1: I mean, as as you said in and well before
Speaker 1: this thing dropped, right you newest record, um is that
Speaker 1: you continue to have a lot to say. Obviously m
Speaker 1: hm you you and the rest of Epic High you
Speaker 1: are not out of stuff to say, which I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we can get into it. You're album just dropped. Yes,
Speaker 1: how are you feeling When we were talking you were
Speaker 1: in the middle of it. Yeah, I'm I'm very happy. Um.
Speaker 1: People say that it speaks to them and they really
Speaker 1: love the album. Um, maybe this has to be like
Speaker 1: an end piece because I don't know, like I didn't
Speaker 1: know people would love it this much. Okay, okay, hold on,
Speaker 1: you're for for clarification because we're going to get a
Speaker 1: lot of messages about this. If we do not clarify this,
Speaker 1: you're not talking about stop making records. Are you I'm
Speaker 1: not talking about like retiring or quitting uh Epicai, I
Speaker 1: don't think that's even possible. We're more like a family now, right, Um.
Speaker 1: But album wise, I don't know. I feel pretty content
Speaker 1: with if this has to become the last album, like
Speaker 1: if I don't know if it will. But I mean,
Speaker 1: if any of us three suddenly like has financial troubles
Speaker 1: and calls and it's like, it's like, get in the
Speaker 1: studio and record for me because I am fucked, dude,
Speaker 1: people are coming after me. I need I need to pay.
Speaker 1: I need to pay help within the week or I'm gone. Um,
Speaker 1: if that happens immediately, I'm I'm I'm in the studio
Speaker 1: recording an album, right, you know to save two cuts? Right?
Speaker 1: He said two cuts specifically? Yes. Ah. But if not
Speaker 1: and and this this, like it just turns out to
Speaker 1: be the last album, I would be happy with it too. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's big man. I kind of want to like do
Speaker 1: other things as well. And I feel like, um, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I've always felt weird rapping ever since I
Speaker 1: was forty, ever since I hit forty, And people always say, hey,
Speaker 1: but there's jay Z yeah, jay Z has billions? What
Speaker 1: does that change? I'm like they always say, but but
Speaker 1: you know jay Z because they can't come up with
Speaker 1: another name. Okay, okay, so what's next? If somebody you
Speaker 1: can't wrap, you gotta stop, you gotta do something else.
Speaker 1: I'm and and just to clarify for fans, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying I'm quitting. I will. You know, music is a
Speaker 1: part of my life. It's it's just it's it would
Speaker 1: be akin to me not living. Yeah, as long as
Speaker 1: I'm alive, you'll get you'll get music from me. But um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like this is my last
Speaker 1: chance to just again try something new. I I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is, but I am interested in in
Speaker 1: the whole world. Um, I'm interested in everything concerning the future.
Speaker 1: And even if I even if I you know, I
Speaker 1: have to start back at the bottom. I would love
Speaker 1: to try new things as well. Would be a journalist,
Speaker 1: maybe an audio animator. Hey, I'm I'm not saying I
Speaker 1: don't want to be a journalist. But that's all right. Hey, listen,
Speaker 1: it's not for everybody, man, It's not for this. You know,
Speaker 1: there's reason I'm not a rapper. Aside from the fact
Speaker 1: that I can't wrap. Um, it's like a rough gig.
Speaker 1: That's also a big part of it. But other than that,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's that important anymore. Okay, all right,
Speaker 1: before we get into the disk track uh portion of
Speaker 1: the podcast. UM, I think we probably got a rapid here. Yo.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much both of y'all for taking the
Speaker 1: time and just you know, sharing your music journeys. Um
Speaker 1: tableau as always absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Like, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's been a while since I've had
Speaker 1: this kind of conversation. It took me back, UM, and
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm, you know, back in college, like
Speaker 1: listening to music, and you know, I might go out
Speaker 1: and re buy some of these CDs. Like, I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed this conversation. Kyle. I'm gonna hit you up for
Speaker 1: a beat whenever I do something like in the States,
Speaker 1: ok and Dexter, You're you're gonna wrap on it because oh,
Speaker 1: if you if you want to see your sales plummet,
Speaker 1: I can do that for you, my man, I'll do
Speaker 1: the intro. Tell you what, tell you what? All right,
Speaker 1: this is these official the official collab Kyle, You're making
Speaker 1: the beats, tell who you're rapping, I will do some
Speaker 1: sort of intro and it will call it a day perfect.
Speaker 1: But yo, for everyone else, we have one more bonus
Speaker 1: episode coming out next week, and that wasn't going to
Speaker 1: be another deep dive into one of the main themes
Speaker 1: of this series. You do not want to miss that.
Speaker 1: Authentic is a production of Vice Audio and I Heart Media,
Speaker 1: Produced and reported by Stephanie Karayuki, Minji Ko, Kate Osborne,
Speaker 1: and myself with Janet Lee, Stephanie Brown, and Sam Egan.
Speaker 1: Sound design and original music composition by Kyle Murdoch with
Speaker 1: the Dish the support from Natasha Jacobs. Our supervising producer
Speaker 1: is Janet Lee, editing from Lacy Roberts, fact checking by
Speaker 1: Minji Kop and Nicole Pasuka. Our executive producer and VP
Speaker 1: of Vice Audio is Kate Osborne. From I Heart Podcast Network,
Speaker 1: executive producers Nikki Tore and Lindsay Hoffman. I'm Dexa Thomas Jr.
Speaker 1: Follow this feed to not miss an episode when they drop, Rate,
Speaker 1: review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and be
Speaker 1: sure to check us out on Twitter at Vice. See
Speaker 1: you all next time.