1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: From Vice and I heart this is authentic. I'm Dexon 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: Thomas and this is the first of two bonus episodes 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: FIP hop. So today we're gonna do something a little 4 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: bit different. We're gonna do kind of a two version 5 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: of the round Table discussion, meaning that we can't actually 6 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: physically be around the round table, but we're gonna have 7 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: digitally me Tableau and Kyle, who is our composer and 8 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: sound engineer, and so yeah, I wanted to get us 9 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: together just to talk about the thing that's really at 10 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: the center of the series, which is music. So tab Lou, 11 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: we got you beaming in from your home in South Korea. 12 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: Tell was good to talk to you again, Hey guys. Yeah, yeah, 13 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: and we got, of course Kyle Murdock here, So Tableau, 14 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: I got to introduce you to Kyle Um. He's a 15 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: man behind the curtain. He's the sound designer, the sound 16 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: engineer for Vice Audio, and he actually fully composed all 17 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: the music for the entire series, including the theme song. 18 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 1: So I want to talk about that in a little 19 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: bit Um. But also Kyle is also a DJ and 20 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: a producer in his own right, and back in the 21 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: day he was signed to Rockets records with your group Pantasy, 22 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: Is that right, Rockets? Right? Yeah? Yeah, oh damn yeah, 23 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: I've heard your stuff. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, really anything 24 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: from Rockets I've I've heard, okay. Yeah, this is what okay, 25 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: And this is why I wanted to introduce you to 26 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: Right because you know, one of the big things that 27 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: brought us together is this really you know, deep and 28 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: I think important story. But the thing that really, you know, 29 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: taboo you and I brought us together fundamentally in the 30 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: background is music. Right. It's hip hop when we would 31 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: not have been having any of this conversation, but it 32 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: wasn't for that. And you know, even in the last 33 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, a few months since we talked, Tableau, I 34 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: know a bunch has changed since we last met. You 35 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: released a whole album, which when we were talking it 36 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: was I think it was the track list was written 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: in in dry race marker on the door. You were 38 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: still trying to figure out the order. So that's out now, 39 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: and um and Kyle, you know, we we put together 40 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: the series and really put on all this work to 41 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: make it kind of sound cohesive. So one thing that 42 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: I think a lot about with with music right is 43 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: it's something we've lost with streaming, which is, you know, 44 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: streaming is great, but being able to go to somebody's 45 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: house and look at their CD collection or you know, 46 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: the iTunes collection just say okay, I get it. I 47 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: have a pretty good idea of who who this person is, 48 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: where their background is so tableau. If you were to 49 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: narrow it down just two or three, what would be 50 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: the records that made you you? You know what, what 51 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: turned young Dan Lee into tableau? I think Nirvana's never 52 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: Mind mm hmm uh and also Teller Quality, most de 53 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: Black Star album okay uh. And I hate to leave 54 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: Illmatic out of it, but I think I'm gonna have 55 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: to go with Snoop Dogg. Really yeah, his first album, 56 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: Doggy Style. Why that is? That is pretty eclectic? Yeah? 57 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: Dog Style? Like I could have guessed by listening to 58 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: your first record, I wouldn't have guessed Nirvana. I wouldn't 59 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: have guessed never Mind. Really, I was really into um, Nirvana, 60 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: Smashing Pumpkins. I've always loved hip hop and rock, and 61 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: it's sort of represents who I became when I was 62 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: listening to the to the albums that I just mentioned, 63 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: I think that's sort of where I I was becoming 64 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: who I was supposed to be. I felt very at 65 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: home with those records. Kyle, what about you. Let's see 66 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: a trap called quest my big huge tropical question. Um, 67 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: And I can't pick really between the low End Theory 68 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: and Midnight Marauders, so I'm just gonna say they'll take 69 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: up two of those three slots. Low end theory. Low 70 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: end theory, I mean low end theory. I got some fine. 71 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: I have fond memories of both, but yeah, I I 72 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: can lean towards lowand theory. That was the first cassette 73 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: tape I bought UM back in, which is crazy I'm 74 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: dating myself, but anyway, and I guess from my third 75 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: it would be De las So delas So is Dead. 76 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: Like I really love skits, which is probably why I 77 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: got into like sound design and creating scenes with sound 78 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: um and principle Like that album to me was like 79 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: the first time I had really heard anyone like use 80 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: you know, besides songs like have a thematic kind of 81 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: through line through an album, and I thought it was 82 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: really cool. And again that was I think so something 83 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: about that year. I was only eleven, but you were 84 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: listening to all this stuff too, right, that will Yeah, 85 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: try to call quest was actually a name that popped 86 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: up when you asked for three records. But you know, 87 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: it's kind of savage you're asking for asking someone to 88 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: choose a top three, like even a top five. You know, 89 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: I hate having to ever choose, you know, the top 90 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: five thing? Yeah, top three is just cruel. What are 91 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: your what are your top three albums? Then? For for 92 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: this question, Uh, I three is hard? Um obviously I 93 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: would say me is probably Wu Tang Forever, Dick over 94 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: thirty six Chambers. See I I I would taboo. You 95 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: and I have sort of a similar situation and that 96 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: our parents didn't really want us listen to this stuff, 97 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: and so I found Um, I don't know if you 98 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: know this, but Walmart back in the day would carry 99 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: sort of sanitized versions of all the big records. So 100 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: if your parents wouldn't let you have the explicit lyrics 101 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: go on, you could just go to the Walmart. They 102 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: had Wu Tang Forever at Walmart and you could buy 103 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: it and everything was edited out. But it was cooler 104 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: because it had kung Fu sound effects over the over 105 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: the curses, so it actually sounded cool. It wasn't just 106 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: it wasn't bleeps, it was burning. It was yo. I 107 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: highly recommend it to anybody. So if you basically did it, 108 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: oh no, you can tell you. You can tell. They 109 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: didn't give it to the A and R. They didn't 110 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: give it to the sensor. They said, Rizza, we need 111 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: you to make this and he said, okay, yeah, I 112 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: got a bunch of Kung Fu samples. I'll do it. 113 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: I would say that. And this compilation this uh, it 114 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: was MTV Amp two, but it was just a bunch 115 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: of electronic music, which is nobody around me listened to. 116 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: And I was just the only person. I'm listening to 117 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: drumm and bass and techno. I don't know what any 118 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: of this stuff is because nobody in my hometown knew 119 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: what this was. But it just, you know, that's what 120 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: actually got me into DJ and you know, doing college 121 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: radio stuff. Probably those and two very strange picks. Yeah 122 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: clean clean version of Utan Forever and MTV app Yeah 123 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: man too, because that's what that's what there was. That's 124 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: what they had at the store. Drum roll for the 125 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: third one, what's your third pick? Why? Cleft John's the Carnival. 126 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's my favorite record, But I am saying, yes, 127 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: the skits, the skits are phenomenal and just the through 128 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: line between everything he takes you just places you didn't 129 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,239 Speaker 1: think you were gonna go the set? Are you talking 130 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: about the song? Pocket? You talking about? That was like 131 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: from another But if I was to take it to 132 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: things that I thought really hit me musically, it would 133 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: probably be Eric about duds debut a fourth Yo. You 134 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: you you went. You kind of fudged it to man, 135 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: Come on, You're allowed to do that. I'm the host, 136 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: bro okay, whatever, Okay, But but speaking speaking about that, okay, 137 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: I think we have all these but part of that, 138 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: I want to take this back a little bit. One 139 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: of the things that that we worked a lot on 140 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: is uh is the theme song. And so you know, 141 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: I know, I know you're you're usually in the other seat, 142 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: but maybe I'll ask you to sort of be the 143 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 1: music journalists here tableau. Um, the theme song? How do 144 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: you feel about theme song? For this one? I loved it, 145 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: And I also loved the rest of the audio production. 146 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: I mean it, I only heard the first two episodes 147 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: as we're doing this right now, and um, the audio 148 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: production was like miles above what I imagined it could 149 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: be because we just had conversations, but it became like 150 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: it became something because of the audio production and the music. 151 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: Everything was so so good. So Kyle like, seriously, thank you, 152 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: you did an amazing job. Yeah, it was awesome, man, 153 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: just working on it, just helping to tell your story, 154 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, um, plus as a music producer, you know, 155 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: at the flex a little bit and just let people 156 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: know it's funny because tell what you may me not 157 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: realize this, but I listened to your early records and 158 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: I was putting that plus the stuff you were saying, 159 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: because I was kind of in the back of my mind, 160 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: I knew, Okay, we're gonna have to have a theme song. 161 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: Do we do this? So we were actually kind of 162 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: trying to reverse engineer young dan Lee Young tableau into 163 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: what sounds like something he would have dug And so 164 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: Kyle and I went back and forth on this. You know, 165 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: it's just all right, man. You know that there's gotta 166 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: be some horns in there that sounds like Pete Rock 167 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: and we we we were arguing over the bpm. He 168 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: added a hundred. I was just yo, slow, you gotta 169 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: slow down the nine four and he's all right, man, 170 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: we'll try it. And it was a lot. It was 171 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: a lot, So I'm gonna feel like it. That's a 172 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: very That's an interesting way to like produce a bat 173 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: you know, reverse engineering it so that it reflects someone's life. Yeah, 174 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: And like I've been making music about my story for 175 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: like two decades and I don't think I've ever done that. 176 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: It was a fun challenge to say the least. Shout 177 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: out to one of our producers, Stuff Big, because she 178 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: sent a Spotify playlist of like all your influences or 179 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: you know, like from from obviously Atomatic to um Bob Dylan, 180 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: and it was like, yo, what Yeah, it just has 181 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: to sound like the Atomatic and Bob Dylan. Yeah, right, right, 182 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: right right. I think when you do music and both 183 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: of you all can can speak this so just as 184 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: a creative like it should be a challenge, Like there's 185 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: no challenger. It makes the you know, the end result 186 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: like not as satisfying. You know, if if you think 187 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: about even just how it started, right and you know, 188 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: just I think when all the peoples are coming up, 189 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: we all grew up, you know, three separate places, and 190 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: we have these different influences, but there's something about just 191 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: how hip hop culture works, where if you're gonna do 192 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: it right, you have to have the background, you have 193 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: to have kind of this knowledge of it. I mean 194 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: even if you go way back to the first parties 195 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: and you know in New York, Yeah, it was this 196 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: new genre. But what were they playing. They were playing 197 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: their parents records, and so you had to know about 198 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: just all you have to know all of this different 199 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: music and I mean, tallow, that's something you could hear, 200 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:19,359 Speaker 1: especially in your first few records. Yeah, like soul samples 201 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: weren't really a thing yet in Korea at the time. 202 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: Um and Uh. We we wanted to make sure that 203 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: the album reflected the things that we were listening to, um, 204 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: you know growing up that the music that we liked. 205 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: We wanted the first album to reflect the influences all 206 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: of those rappers and hip hop musicians that influenced us. 207 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: I didn't want it to just sound like illmatic. I 208 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: wanted it to sound like what Nas must have been 209 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: listening to when he was a kid. Yeah, and so 210 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: it had to be like a crash course for um, 211 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: everybody in Korea that you know, it was just finding 212 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: rap a novelty at the time. Um, we had to 213 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: explain like the whole sampling thing and how it's not plagiarism, 214 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: and there there's still debates about like sampling, like how 215 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: how can you take someone else's music and just put 216 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: some drums on it? And we're like a lot more 217 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: is happening than that. Yeah, and uh but but yeah, 218 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: like it's not like everyone's still it's not like everyone 219 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: already gets it immediately, but um, but it's it's a 220 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: lot better than before. Since you've if we've talked, you've 221 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: dropped an entire album and there's a whole bunch of stuff. 222 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: There's a big catalog we can go through. So I've 223 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: spent a bunch of time in your music. But also 224 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: know the Kyle has um, you know, what the hell 225 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: did you just do it? Like this? Kyle? You got 226 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: a favorite? You got a favorite track? You gotta favorite 227 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: every high song. I think the album that has kind 228 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: of you know, resonated with me the most map of 229 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: the human soul. I think it's really resonated just and 230 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: I can hear it like because it's it's interesting. Like 231 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: when I started listening to it, I had to go 232 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: and I was like, when when was this release? Because 233 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: now it makes sense that you're saying that you all 234 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: were somewhat playing cash up. We're not you, per se, 235 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: but the people in Korea listening because that style with 236 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: chopping up in the boom bap like almost like the 237 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: DJ Premier style with the cuts and stuff. We in 238 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: the US have been spoiled. We've been doing that since 239 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: like the you know, ill matic and p rocking Seale 240 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: smooth Gangstar like, so it's interesting to hear it's almost 241 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: like it was a few years later. But it's also 242 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: you gotta key perspective trying to keep it pool not 243 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: int Safina walk. So Hannibal this actlutely. I was working 244 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: with the producer. I told him, I want to do 245 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: something that sounds like de La Soul. So you're you're 246 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: totally right, Like, uh, we were trying to like capture 247 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: things that we felt for the for the decade building 248 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: up to when we released their first album. Because by 249 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: the time we released their first album, people had moved 250 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: on to like Swiss beats, beats um a lot of 251 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: meaty uh and you know the whole like chopping up 252 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: and using vinyl samples was sort of uh, not in 253 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: fashion at the time already. So in Korea, what was strange? 254 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: They just jumped from very amateurish beats too, like what 255 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: was trending, like Swiss beats um and also like you know, 256 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: the whole like Destiny's Child kind of beats, like very 257 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: highly produced and yeah yeah, and they had just skipped 258 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: over like the entire nineties with the with the cassio keyboards, 259 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: like I used to hate Swiss beats with the that 260 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: was his thing, like he would hit a key and 261 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: it would make a scratch. Let go, jigga, jigga. I 262 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: was like, dude, where that was great? And now it's amazing. 263 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: Now it's like now, yeah, man, people don't make beats 264 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: like Swiss beats and no more right, you know, you know, Okay, 265 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: I want to take this sort of a different direction 266 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: because mine, my personal favorite actually track is wish you 267 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: were Hm. That's it for me, man. For the last 268 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: few years, it's been so I've been to stay home 269 00:16:55,000 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: there my daughter to sell the pain and whisper stay 270 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: home and people's take. I have a lot of thoughts 271 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: about that, but I would love to hear yours. Where 272 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: where were you when you were making that? What what 273 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: prompted that? Yeah, like we didn't have this when that 274 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: album was done. Basically it was felt like the album 275 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: needed a proper last track, and you know, you know, 276 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: as producers, you know like, um, some beats and some 277 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: songs take like months to finish, yeah, and then there 278 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: are songs that like literally take ten fifteen minutes and 279 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: you feel like you have it. Yeah. I just went 280 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: into booth and I was like, I'm just gonna do 281 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: like one two lines at a time, and I'll try 282 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: to come up with the lyrics. And that's why it 283 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: sort of just sounds like half narration, not even really 284 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: a full rap. So what was it you were tapping into? 285 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: Because I'm the good about what you're saying, right, yeah? Um. 286 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: So at this time, uh, there was like this whole 287 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: thing going on like online, like in in hip hop 288 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: forums and even in our fan chats about like how 289 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: EPICCAI is. You know, they're all you know, two of 290 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: them are dads. Yeah, but you know like their dad's 291 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: you know, they're old. Some of our fans were just 292 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: shipping on us and someone called me like a stay 293 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: home dad and um, and I'm like, well, aren't we 294 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: all like stay home at this time? And that's where 295 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: like the whole uh exchange with my daughter thing happens 296 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: because I told her, I was like, you know, people 297 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: are calling me like a dad, which I am, but 298 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: you know, when you call a rapper a dad, I'm 299 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that they mean it and a good way. 300 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: And She's like, I like it that you're you're a 301 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: stay at home dad. I mean, for me, this is 302 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: why I like it. Honestly for me, man, that track 303 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: is the best disk track of the last past few 304 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: years that I've heard it, hands down, Yes, bro it 305 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: that it's cold because I think in some ways it's 306 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: very you know, it's it's very thoughtful, right, But the 307 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: in in the back of it, I also here you 308 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: where are your priorities? You know what I mean. I'm 309 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: I'm being a great dad. How is that not something 310 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: you think is a good idea? We're all very used to. 311 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: And I love this stuff, right, I love listening to 312 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: rappers rap about you know, the cars and the money 313 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: and all this stuff. But yo, I'm chilling with my daughter. Yeah. 314 00:19:53,800 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: I mean, I think even with uh, the the stuff 315 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: that I went through, UM, which you know was at 316 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: the center of authentic UM. I think one of the 317 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: reasons why I was able to withstand it a bit. 318 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: It's because people usually attack what they think is important 319 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: to you, and in hip hop, they will attack your ego. Um, 320 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: they'll say something like, you know, you know, you're poor, 321 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: like your your record sales aren't doing good, you're washed up. Yeah, 322 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, it's all status stuff. Yeah. But the 323 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: thing is, uh, none of that ever really mattered to me. 324 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that like I'm above it, but it's 325 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: just I'm a different person and those things aren't at 326 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: the top of my priority list. Yeah. And that's kind 327 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: of what I was here, you know with even with 328 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: the title wish you were It's like, Yo, I'm I've evolved, man, 329 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: get on my level. I cook really good round from 330 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: my daughter. Dude, I am if we get together when 331 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: I'm in the States, I'm making Roman for you guys. 332 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: I am literally top like, not even top five, I'm 333 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: like top one or two Lamar or j Cole of Raman. Okay, 334 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: I want to keep going with this, but we gotta 335 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: take a quick break. We'll be right back. So we're back. 336 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: And and one thing I wanted to touch on a 337 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: little bit is, you know, aside from the music that 338 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: there's a sound design, right, which sometimes may not be 339 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: so obvious, but but it's really part of what what 340 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: helps you go to a place, what helps you feel 341 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: like you're somewhere. So I want to throw this to you, Kyle, Um, 342 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 1: was there was there anything that you found challenging about 343 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: bringing this ory sort of alive because you know, me, 344 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: me and Tally we just sort of chopped it up 345 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: for hours, right, you had to make people feel like 346 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: they were there in the room with us. At another 347 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 1: prior job, they used to cause audio animators and I 348 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: like that because it's like the idea of taking things 349 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: that you normally would see or image and using sound 350 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: to bring them to life. So, Um, I think about 351 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: two things stand out to me. Um. One of them 352 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: was Hung Day scene. That that scene in particular because 353 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: it reminded me of being in college. Yeah yeah, yeah, Kyle. 354 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 1: I mean love what you're saying here because a lot 355 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: of this, you know, the way, the thing that made 356 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: it work was being able to hear us there. So 357 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: I'm gonna play this right now. Hung Day is the 358 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: name for a neighborhood that's around hung University, and in 359 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: the early two thousand's it was the hip hangout for 360 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: young people who were into art and music all right, 361 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: one to one to check one two one two. During 362 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: the daytime hung they looked like any other college area, 363 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: small cafes, boutique shops, that kind of thing. But at night, 364 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: the local pubs, bars and clubs transformed the neighborhood. The 365 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: central gathering points was this neighborhood, and also specifically there 366 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: was most of the nightlife targeted young college kids, so 367 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: the drinks were cheap, the music was loud, and a 368 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: lot of the clubs were literally underground. It's amazing, um 369 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: because I actually lived it right and um, as I 370 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: was listening through, like hearing it right now, like with 371 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 1: my eyes closed. Um, it really does feel like I'm 372 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: back there, you know it just with the uh, with 373 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: the music, but also the way the noise is overlaid 374 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: on it. Um, it really does take you back. And 375 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: and I love that that phrase audio animator. I'm gonna 376 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: start using the I'm putting that on my LinkedIn like 377 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: because that's so accurate. Um. Yeah, I really believe where 378 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: in an age now where audio is is so much 379 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: more powerful than people know. How did you how do 380 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: you take us there? Just listening. And also I think 381 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: story beats, like making sure there's this room for like 382 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: literally the beats I'm putting into actually like breathe and 383 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: like hit four minutes, like to break up the narration. 384 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: Good writing. So shout out to our producer Stuff k 385 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 1: who wrote that episode. I've been working as an audio 386 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: animator since I left college in two thousand and one, 387 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: and obviously it takes iteration. It took some hours, and 388 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,719 Speaker 1: like if people saw the amount of time I was spending, 389 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: particularly just doing one que and one scene, they'd be like, 390 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: that's crazy, But I'm like, no, that's art. Tabloo kind 391 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: of has the I think I've seen this before, the 392 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: sort of the I'm taking notes. Look, okay, I see this. 393 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: Hell's done. I'm thinking to myself, I need a beat 394 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: from Kyle. Yo. That can be a rain next time 395 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: we do something, I need to beat from Kyle because like, dude, 396 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 1: it's just it was really good. Thanks man, that's awesome. 397 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: I saw I saw you nod in your head as 398 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: it was going Yeah, when you're closing your eyes and 399 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: dot in your head. I felt that I need a 400 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: Kyle beat. Yeah, that are you kidding me? That's like 401 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: the greatest compliment. That's the biggest thing. I was asking 402 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: all the time, all the producers. I was like, yo, 403 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: I'm glad y'all like it, but I I would like 404 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: it like this is his story, you know what I'm saying. 405 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: Like he has to be proud of it too. So anyway, 406 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: that's thank you, that's awesome, and please let's collaborate for sure. 407 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: Yo yo yo. I think I think we we accomplished 408 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: something today. There's something Melson there speaking of Hungay, right, 409 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: there's the restaurant across the way the we went to. 410 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: You remember that one? Yeah, yet that you're going there? 411 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: So talking to j Win, it was wow because I 412 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: think the woman, probably the you know, was running the place. 413 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: It's the same person was running it. So I went 414 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: in and it's it's a tiny little place you're talking about, 415 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: the place with the the the grandma. Yes, okay, I 416 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: was there yesterday, no joke, no joke. She was really 417 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: mad at me for not showing up for a while. 418 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: Really yeah, she got really mad. But um, you know, 419 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: she she's like it's like it's like it's like a mother, 420 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: you know. And she tried to make us like just 421 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: leave without paying. So h one of us had to 422 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: distract her and then we we used the machine and 423 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: we we charged ourselves. Basically, what's interesting is the only 424 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: aartists that she uh remembers and still knows that that 425 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: was always there um is us and g Dragon and 426 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: Twang from Big Bang. So if you go there, you 427 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: must have seen the pictures. There aren't many pictures. It's 428 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: just Epiccai and she Dragon and Tang And I'm like 429 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: something was in the food because it's maybe the last 430 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: thing left of uh of at Piccai in Home Day 431 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: at that time. Yeah, everything else is gone. So there's 432 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: kind of speaking of that that early arrow, right, Um, 433 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: I know one of the things that we got into 434 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: in the episode, on some of the episodes a little 435 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: bit was just the ability to explore sort of different styles, right. 436 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: And then how in the early days, you know, hip 437 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: hoppy could be kind of kind of insular, you know, 438 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: I mean a very sort of No, it's got to 439 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: sound sound like this tablet wood, you know. How looking back, 440 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: how do you feel about that that time when you 441 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,479 Speaker 1: know you were getting some static from the hardcore hip 442 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: hop heads about about your sound, you know, especially for 443 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: your third album. I mean, I didn't disagree with them. 444 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: You know, I was fully aware of what I was 445 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: doing and the uh backlash or whatever I would get. 446 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: I think it's just the way I was raised. Um 447 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: My parents, as you know now, were extremely strict. So 448 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: the more they try to make me not do something, 449 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: the more I would, you know, the harder I would 450 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: work to do it. And I think that was the 451 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: same case with with doing music in Korea. Like when 452 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: I came in into hip hop, like I really had 453 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: this fantasy expectation of you know, the hip hop scene 454 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: must be different. You know, there's the industry, but there's 455 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: the hip hop scene. And the hip hop scene in 456 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: Korea wasn't big at the time, so I felt like 457 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: it it should be very, very tight, and um, you know, 458 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: it's just it's like a it's like a whole underground 459 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: vibe and we're all in this together. We're experimenting and 460 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: all this stuff. But it was just as close minded 461 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: as the industry. Like immediately, um, you know, they didn't 462 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: want us to sound a certain way, and I did 463 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: hip hop because I wanted to like go against the grain. 464 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, if I have to abide by these rules, uh, 465 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna hate doing this, and the only way I 466 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: can love it is going in the exact opposite direction 467 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: and pushing it so far that they eventually have to 468 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: accept it, which is actually what happened. Um, after we 469 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: did that for years and got basically shipped on by 470 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: the hip hop heads, they all started doing like E 471 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: D M and like you know, one PM, they all 472 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: started doing like vocal features MHM and and now and 473 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: now we're back to like just beats and wraps and stuff. 474 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's hilarious how things change. Yeah, man, I mean, Kyle, 475 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: you were you were on rockies at this point. What 476 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: I mean, so you were in the middle of that conversation. 477 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: What was that like for you? Because artist wise, you know, 478 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: you're you're pretty contemporary to each other. Yeah. I signed 479 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: a rock Gison end of two thousand and five, so 480 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: I think it was right after Swan songs. And even 481 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: aside from rockets, it's a funny story that kind of 482 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: overlaps with epic High because back when I was an 483 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: audio animator, I worked for a company then called x 484 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: M Radio satellite radio, but now it's serious x and Radio, 485 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: And that was my day job as an audio animator engineer. 486 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: But in the on the side, I hosted a We 487 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: called it progressive hip hop because we didn't want to 488 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: say backpacker, independent, underground. We just went to brand the 489 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: different and we were trying to play stuff that was 490 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: just out the box, like you know, um And ironically 491 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: we were getting Service records from different places across the 492 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: world and we got epic Highs album. And it's funny because, yeah, 493 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: I think in a lot of ways, what you all 494 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: were doing with uh Fly was actually no one was 495 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: doing that in two thousand and five. Like the music 496 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: we were playing on the Service at the time was 497 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: probably was not sounded like that. So in a lot 498 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: of ways, you all were kind of ahead of the 499 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: trend that eventually I feel like it was adopted more 500 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: here where you would hear stuff again that's a little 501 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: bit more up tempo, a little bit more dance here 502 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: with with vocal features, because a lot of stuff we 503 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: played was more boom bab, you know, even in two 504 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: thousand and five, And the stuff that I was doing 505 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: on Rockets was kind of like was was probably more 506 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: akin to what you were doing on Fly. With my 507 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: group Pannasya, it was like the opposite thing. Like the 508 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: label folded in two thousand nine, and um, we we 509 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: went back to being independent and I got more into 510 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: radio and you know, so it's like not a dream 511 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: defer because I'm very happy that about that time, but 512 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: it's like, it's just cool to see that across the world. 513 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: And so this was happening to a group that was 514 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: similar and y'all, y'all did it. So yeah, it's really cool. 515 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: It's a cool story, that's an interesting overlap. It's it's 516 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: so weird. Yeah, yeah, I definitely remember getting the album. 517 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: It's so weird because yeah, like I said, y'all two 518 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: actually knew each other. You you two knew each other's work. Yeah, 519 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: and you didn't even know that. Yeah, and then here 520 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: it is, we're we're all working on the same project together. 521 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: And and of course, like the way we went against 522 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: the grain is kind of different from what other people 523 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: in the States or something like it might be used 524 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: to with like progressive. Um, but I've a I've always 525 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: been been a fan of that. Like trick called Quest 526 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: I loved for that precise reason. Gala Soul, Black Alicious, 527 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, Hieroglyphics, all of these artists were 528 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: even far side was you know, like perfect name because 529 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: it was really far out ye. And I've always been 530 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: a fan of that, and I just did it in 531 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: my in the way that was possible for me in 532 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: Korea at the time. So there's there's one thing taboo 533 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: that that you said to me during the course of 534 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: our interview, right, And you were talking about, you know, 535 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: suffering as an artist, right, and I it was something 536 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: like that. A lot of people say that, you know 537 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: that there's sort of this idea that we have of 538 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: the tortured artist, right, and it's suffering births great art. 539 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: And you said something that really hit me. Would you said, 540 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: it's it's not worth it? Yeah, Like, honestly, I liked 541 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: it until I became it mm hmmm. Uh. I had 542 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: and idealized, you know, view of that as well. Growing up, 543 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: I always identified with artists who had suffered a lot 544 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: until I became that artist and I realized, oh my god, 545 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: it's I'm human, and so so were all these artists 546 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: that I was looking up to. They shouldn't have had 547 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: to go through all of that to to give me 548 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: inspiration or give me a song, or give me a 549 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: film or a book. How do you communicate that to 550 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 1: a fan that Yo, this whole tortured artist narrative, this story, 551 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: this storyline is actually destructive. Yeah, because the love that 552 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: fans show an artist, I appreciate it fully, one, I 553 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: fully appreciate it. But we can't say that it's permanent. Yeah. Yeah, 554 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: I think just communicating that, or even even communicating they're 555 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: even having that conversation. It seems so so difficult because 556 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: I mean, as as you said in and well before 557 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: this thing dropped, right you newest record, um is that 558 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: you continue to have a lot to say. Obviously m 559 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: hm you you and the rest of Epic High you 560 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: are not out of stuff to say, which I mean, 561 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: you know, we can get into it. You're album just dropped. Yes, 562 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: how are you feeling When we were talking you were 563 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: in the middle of it. Yeah, I'm I'm very happy. Um. 564 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,439 Speaker 1: People say that it speaks to them and they really 565 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: love the album. Um, maybe this has to be like 566 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: an end piece because I don't know, like I didn't 567 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: know people would love it this much. Okay, okay, hold on, 568 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: you're for for clarification because we're going to get a 569 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: lot of messages about this. If we do not clarify this, 570 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: you're not talking about stop making records. Are you I'm 571 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: not talking about like retiring or quitting uh Epicai, I 572 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: don't think that's even possible. We're more like a family now, right, Um. 573 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 1: But album wise, I don't know. I feel pretty content 574 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 1: with if this has to become the last album, like 575 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: if I don't know if it will. But I mean, 576 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: if any of us three suddenly like has financial troubles 577 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: and calls and it's like, it's like, get in the 578 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 1: studio and record for me because I am fucked, dude, 579 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: people are coming after me. I need I need to pay. 580 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: I need to pay help within the week or I'm gone. Um, 581 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: if that happens immediately, I'm I'm I'm in the studio 582 00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: recording an album, right, you know to save two cuts? Right? 583 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: He said two cuts specifically? Yes. Ah. But if not 584 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: and and this this, like it just turns out to 585 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: be the last album, I would be happy with it too. Wow, 586 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: that's big man. I kind of want to like do 587 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: other things as well. And I feel like, um, I 588 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: don't know, I've always felt weird rapping ever since I 589 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: was forty, ever since I hit forty, And people always say, hey, 590 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: but there's jay Z yeah, jay Z has billions? What 591 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: does that change? I'm like they always say, but but 592 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: you know jay Z because they can't come up with 593 00:38:53,360 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 1: another name. Okay, okay, so what's next? If somebody you 594 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: can't wrap, you gotta stop, you gotta do something else. 595 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: I'm and and just to clarify for fans, I'm not 596 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 1: saying I'm quitting. I will. You know, music is a 597 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,879 Speaker 1: part of my life. It's it's just it's it would 598 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: be akin to me not living. Yeah, as long as 599 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: I'm alive, you'll get you'll get music from me. But um, 600 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like this is my last 601 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:32,879 Speaker 1: chance to just again try something new. I I don't 602 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: know what it is, but I am interested in in 603 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: the whole world. Um, I'm interested in everything concerning the future. 604 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: And even if I even if I you know, I 605 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: have to start back at the bottom. I would love 606 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: to try new things as well. Would be a journalist, 607 00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 1: maybe an audio animator. Hey, I'm I'm not saying I 608 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: don't want to be a journalist. But that's all right. Hey, listen, 609 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: it's not for everybody, man, It's not for this. You know, 610 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: there's reason I'm not a rapper. Aside from the fact 611 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: that I can't wrap. Um, it's like a rough gig. 612 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: That's also a big part of it. But other than that, 613 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: I don't think it's that important anymore. Okay, all right, 614 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 1: before we get into the disk track uh portion of 615 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: the podcast. UM, I think we probably got a rapid here. Yo. 616 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: Thank you so much both of y'all for taking the 617 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: time and just you know, sharing your music journeys. Um 618 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: tableau as always absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Like, UM, 619 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's been a while since I've had 620 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,800 Speaker 1: this kind of conversation. It took me back, UM, and 621 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm, you know, back in college, like 622 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: listening to music, and you know, I might go out 623 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: and re buy some of these CDs. Like, I really 624 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: enjoyed this conversation. Kyle. I'm gonna hit you up for 625 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,280 Speaker 1: a beat whenever I do something like in the States, 626 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,799 Speaker 1: ok and Dexter, You're you're gonna wrap on it because oh, 627 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: if you if you want to see your sales plummet, 628 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: I can do that for you, my man, I'll do 629 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 1: the intro. Tell you what, tell you what? All right, 630 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: this is these official the official collab Kyle, You're making 631 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: the beats, tell who you're rapping, I will do some 632 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,760 Speaker 1: sort of intro and it will call it a day perfect. 633 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,240 Speaker 1: But yo, for everyone else, we have one more bonus 634 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: episode coming out next week, and that wasn't going to 635 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,879 Speaker 1: be another deep dive into one of the main themes 636 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: of this series. You do not want to miss that. 637 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,720 Speaker 1: Authentic is a production of Vice Audio and I Heart Media, 638 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 1: Produced and reported by Stephanie Karayuki, Minji Ko, Kate Osborne, 639 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,280 Speaker 1: and myself with Janet Lee, Stephanie Brown, and Sam Egan. 640 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: Sound design and original music composition by Kyle Murdoch with 641 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: the Dish the support from Natasha Jacobs. Our supervising producer 642 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: is Janet Lee, editing from Lacy Roberts, fact checking by 643 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,359 Speaker 1: Minji Kop and Nicole Pasuka. Our executive producer and VP 644 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,280 Speaker 1: of Vice Audio is Kate Osborne. From I Heart Podcast Network, 645 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: executive producers Nikki Tore and Lindsay Hoffman. I'm Dexa Thomas Jr. 646 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,319 Speaker 1: Follow this feed to not miss an episode when they drop, Rate, 647 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and be 648 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: sure to check us out on Twitter at Vice. See 649 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: you all next time.