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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear a pong and a

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Speaker 1: ping for our super producer, mister Max Williams.

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Speaker 2: Max the Ping of Pong, the King of Kong Williams Max.

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Speaker 1: If you are a pizza, you would be a supreme pizza.

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Speaker 1: And I mean that, oh my God, with my heart.

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Speaker 2: Yes, thank you guys. What constitutes a supreme pizza? Is

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Speaker 2: it just all the toppings or is there an agreed

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Speaker 2: upon you know, because not all pizza places have the

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Speaker 2: same topping options, So a supreme it kind of seems

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Speaker 2: like a little bit of an innocuous category.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of in the eye of the beholder,

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Speaker 1: because it's sometimes it's the entirety of the restaurants pantheon

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Speaker 1: of toppings, and then other times it's you know, the olive,

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Speaker 1: the onion, the pepper. But they'll they'll save the specialty

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Speaker 1: meats I find mm hmmm, yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: Little note here, I have not read this yet, but

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Speaker 3: according to pizzaplanet dot com, which is under their news section,

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Speaker 3: they have a fascinating history of Supreme Pizza, So that.

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Speaker 2: Just episode Well, wasn't Pizza Planet the pizza place in

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Speaker 2: the toy Story cinematic universe? That right?

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Speaker 1: You might be right, it was totally Oh, we've got

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Speaker 1: to introduce ourselves. Also, I'm big bullet. This is what

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Speaker 1: are is the one and only Noel Brown, who's also

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Speaker 1: our research associate for this episode, which has little to

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with pizza, but maybe we'll get there.

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Speaker 2: Tangentially, you did drop a bit of hands with your

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Speaker 2: categorization of Max's pizza type being supreme. Is that a

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Speaker 2: there should be like a test for what is your

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Speaker 2: pizza type? Like a Myers Briggs situation, And I agree

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Speaker 2: with you, Max would be supreme. We are talking about

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Speaker 2: ping pong today, the history of ping pong, and with

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Speaker 2: the release of the Timo te Chalamet film Marty Supreme

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Speaker 2: and all that media hoopla surrounding you. Did you see

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Speaker 2: all this, guys? It's pretty amazing. I was kind of

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Speaker 2: blown away by the on the ground, the sort of

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Speaker 2: bootstrap marketing that old Timmy was doing in the style

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Speaker 2: of Supreme, the brand like Marty Supreme jackets and I

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Speaker 2: think hoodies and custom little ping Pong balls, and dude

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Speaker 2: actually stood on top of the Vegas Sphere, which is

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Speaker 2: already in the perfect shape for this. They made it

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Speaker 2: look like a Marty Supreme ping pong ball, and there

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Speaker 2: was a blimp. I know you love a blimp, then

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Speaker 2: I love a blimp mill. So this is probably more

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Speaker 2: so than in recent memory least, making the sport of

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Speaker 2: table tennis a little bit more in the zeitgeist. And

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen it yet full disclosure. I actually had

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Speaker 2: tickets to go see it and then something came up.

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Speaker 2: But I'm very much looking forward to and people seem

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Speaker 2: to be enjoying it. It tells the story of Marty Mauser,

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Speaker 2: an ambitious young shoe salesman in New York of the

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Speaker 2: nineteen fifties with dreams of becoming an international star in

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Speaker 2: the rising world of table tennis. And we'll get to

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Speaker 2: a little bit later a bit about who Marty Mauser

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Speaker 2: is based on in real life. But the inspiration for

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Speaker 2: a particularly famous vintage video game that we talked about

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Speaker 2: recently would also have come from today's topic table tennis.

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Speaker 2: Of course, talking about pong.

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Speaker 1: Ah Yes, yeah, one of the first legendary video games

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Speaker 1: in all of history, and one of the initial questions

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Speaker 1: I had when we first started talking about this is

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Speaker 1: the the difference between nomenclature and names. So table tennis

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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm out of school here. Table tennis

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Speaker 1: is the official name for this recreation, but ping pong

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Speaker 1: is the same thing, just a different, less official name.

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Speaker 2: I guess it could be considered like a colloquialism. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's fun to say. Obviously it is, of course automati paic, yes,

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Speaker 2: would be the word for it, describing with words the

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Speaker 2: sound that the ball makes as it pings and pongs

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Speaker 2: across the table. These are automatipaic terms, if I'm not mistaken,

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Speaker 2: ben that date back to the Far East in the

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Speaker 2: late eighteen hundreds, imitative of the sound of the paddle

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Speaker 2: or bat striking, the ball being the ping, and then

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Speaker 2: the pong being the sound of the ball bouncing off

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Speaker 2: the table.

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Speaker 1: Oh right on, Okay, yeah, that makes sense in my

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Speaker 1: head here. And also I think we're all on the

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Speaker 1: same page that Sure table tennis will say it if

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Speaker 1: we're in an official meeting, but if it's just us

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Speaker 1: hanging out together, ping pong is clearly the more fun,

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Speaker 1: cooler name, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would seem that some of the official governing

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Speaker 2: bodies of the sports you may be in an effort

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Speaker 2: to be taken seriously. Maybe there's a history or a

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Speaker 2: little feeling of maybe being looked down the nose from,

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Speaker 2: you know, by the sports community. Ping pong might be

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Speaker 2: considered a little diminutive, But when are you going to

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Speaker 2: pass up a chance to say fun words like ping

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Speaker 2: and pong. So we're gonna say that a bunch, I

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Speaker 2: think any chance we get today. So why don't you

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Speaker 2: all at home, grab your commemorative Marty Supreme paddles or

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Speaker 2: bats if you got them, and let's serve up the

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Speaker 2: fascinating and ridiculous history of the sport of table tennis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is fascinating. That's the perfect word for it,

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Speaker 1: as you found. The origins of what we call modern

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Speaker 1: ping pong or tablets can be traced back right to

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Speaker 1: England in the eighteen hundreds, and like a lot of

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Speaker 1: things in that time, this started out as a leisure

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Speaker 1: activity for the upper crust.

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Speaker 2: I repeat, they had their own automoutopaic name for it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if they quite nailed the sound though, No, No,

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Speaker 2: we all probably will enjoy saying this one a little bit,

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Speaker 2: as we have a fondness for overemphasizing our h's in

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Speaker 2: British parlance with whaff if you will or if you

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Speaker 2: will yes with waff perhaps waft maybe would be a

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Speaker 2: little more brit That was what they do it as

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Speaker 2: and it was played using super rudimentary equipment, initially things

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Speaker 2: like these lightweight well they would initially be quarks, champagne

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Speaker 2: corks or wine corks, but then they evolved eventually into

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Speaker 2: these little celluloid balls. They had these crude paddles or

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Speaker 2: bats that are often themselves made out of cork and parchment,

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Speaker 2: sort of fashion together from stuff that was hanging around,

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Speaker 2: and this was taken the influence for this very diy sport,

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Speaker 2: indoor sport was taken from the outdoor sport of lawn tennis.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so it's a natural evolution and now we

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Speaker 1: can play it inside and we're not held hostage by

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Speaker 1: the weather, right, So that all makes sense. We also

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Speaker 1: know that if we fast forward to eighteen ninety, there's

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Speaker 1: an Englishman named David Foster who comes up with this

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Speaker 1: with this concept and he says, you've got tennis, you've

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Speaker 1: got a table. Why don't we combine the two.

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Speaker 2: It's true, Ben, and it just shows how they were

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Speaker 2: really just thinking about this as an extension of lawn tennis,

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Speaker 2: because lawn tennis is really just kind of tennis, if

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Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken right, like it was using a nicely

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Speaker 2: manicured lawn, which also would have required some upper crustness

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Speaker 2: to even have access to such a thing and be

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Speaker 2: able to, you know, maintain it in that kind of way.

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Speaker 2: But David Foster puts out this book that kind of

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Speaker 2: collected a bunch of different sort of fun indoor kind

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Speaker 2: of family games, and we found an image from the

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Speaker 2: company corn Corny Cornerlio I think is what they're called.

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Speaker 2: They are a legacy table tennis company with skin in

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Speaker 2: the game literally, and there's a lot of good historical

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Speaker 2: info on their site. They have this vintage advert Ford

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Speaker 2: Foster's patented parlor table games this book and a page

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Speaker 2: showing to very hoity toity British noble types pinging and

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Speaker 2: pong and a ball on this kind of what looks

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Speaker 2: like just a dressed up dinner table. You see there's

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Speaker 2: like wooden legs peering out from underneath. It seems to

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Speaker 2: just be covered up in a green cloth with the

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Speaker 2: sides batting on the side exactly around the edges to

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Speaker 2: keep it, you know, sort of from popping off. Of course,

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Speaker 2: we know that modern table tennis doesn't have any such thing,

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Speaker 2: but then it has a little net going across the

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Speaker 2: side and some of the same lines of demarcation that

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Speaker 2: separate the left on the right side of your part

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Speaker 2: of the court. But they are just referring to it

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Speaker 2: here as law tennis, which is a little confusing. So

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Speaker 2: the earliest surviving action game of tennis on a table,

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Speaker 2: as ITTF refers to it as on their website. They

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Speaker 2: are the official governing body the International Table Tennis Federation.

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Speaker 2: We love a Federation is made by David Foster, patented

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Speaker 2: in England in eighteen ninety number one to one zero

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Speaker 2: three seven Parlor Table Games. Is this book I mentioned

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Speaker 2: that includes table versions of lawn tennis. That's exactly what

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Speaker 2: it is. They're doing spins on popular court type games

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Speaker 2: like cricket and football, and they're making it or he's

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Speaker 2: making it, condensing it into a game you can play

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Speaker 2: indoors with less space. So the lawn tennis game featured

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Speaker 2: strung rackets more like a badminton racket, a thirty millimeter

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Speaker 2: cloth covered rubber ball, a wooden fence set up around

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Speaker 2: the perimeter of the table, and some side nets even

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Speaker 2: in addition to of course these the nets down the middle.

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Speaker 1: And you know what, I just realized, and everybody tuning in,

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Speaker 1: I just realized why the name David Foster was sticking

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Speaker 1: in my head. It's because I used to be a

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Speaker 1: huge squirrel nut Zippers fan. You remember they have that song.

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Speaker 4: Met the ghost of Stephen Foster at the Hotel Paradise.

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Speaker 4: This is what I told him as I gazed into

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Speaker 4: his eyes. Dude, I have been down a scroll Nut

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Speaker 4: Zippers nostalgia rabbit hole. Recently, there's a count I follow

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Speaker 4: on Instagram that just like posts old like one hundred

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Speaker 4: and twenty minute videos from the very important MTV show

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Speaker 4: that showed lots of weird like indie videos of the

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Speaker 4: moment and their song, The scrore nuts Zippers, who are

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Speaker 4: from I believe Asheville, North Carolina, near not too too

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Speaker 4: far from us.

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Speaker 2: Hell, was a huge hit at the time. I was

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Speaker 2: like in the afterloa mm hmm, great band, really fun.

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Speaker 2: They were one of the more interesting and tolerable of

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Speaker 2: that era of like swing dance revival type, not.

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Speaker 1: The cherry popping daddies or whatever.

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Speaker 2: You got your suit riders, you got your big bad

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Speaker 2: voodoo skull I like them big bad food. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: it's big bad voodoo daddy Addy. Then there were also

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Speaker 2: the Voodoo glows Skulls, and then of course the Mighty

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Speaker 2: Mighty Bostones, but they were more they weren't really swing.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about the stray Cats, the Seltzer Orchestra, Brian

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Speaker 2: Setzer or extracts. Yeah. Yeah, it was a golden top

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Speaker 2: for that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: So so we will, we will figure out.

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Speaker 2: Uh, it's the same David Fosters.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be amazing?

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 2: Why is the Why is the ghost of the guy

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Speaker 2: that had been like made the parlor table games haunting

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Speaker 2: the singer of the scroll Zippers, who obviously is playing

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Speaker 2: a vintage character, sort of in the style of the Decembris.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly, you have to. I hear that they're

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Speaker 1: a good hang but maybe oh you know what, never mind,

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Speaker 1: cut everything, We'll keep this in, but cut everything. We said, folks,

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Speaker 1: it's the ghost of Stephen Foster.

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Speaker 2: Stephen Foster being a music the composer, right, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Stephen Foster. And then of course you've got You've got

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Speaker 2: David Foster Wallace. Yes, it's like the most pretentious writers

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Speaker 2: ever walked the face of the earth.

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Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken, I love his work. I have

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Speaker 1: to regretfully say, don't love his fans.

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Speaker 2: But isn't he like he's the guy with the he

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Speaker 2: did sadly pass away? But Infinite Jest is often lampooned

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Speaker 2: as being holy cow. David Foster Wallace has a book

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Speaker 2: about tennis called String Theory, which is a very clever

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Speaker 2: name for a book about tennis.

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Speaker 1: And tennis is a huge deal in Infinite Jest as well.

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Speaker 1: It's it's like.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a connection that can't it can't be os.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: The world is so weird, but so shout out to

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Speaker 1: all the Fosters we just mentioned. Another thing you've found

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Speaker 1: here is that Foster's Foster didn't just say here's the

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Speaker 1: setup for tennis on a table. He said, here are

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Speaker 1: the rules for the game as well. And one thing

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Speaker 1: I liked is that the rules are pretty straightforward and

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Speaker 1: they're not super duper complicated like some of those really

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Speaker 1: difficult board games we've tried to play in the past.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, there's a couple that I still haven't even

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Speaker 2: summoned the will to try again. That I do love

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Speaker 2: Munchkin Pandemic and what's the one I really like?

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Speaker 1: The one I love hers?

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Speaker 2: Oh, wingspan, wingspan. Thank you once you get the hang

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Speaker 2: of it. Those are a good hang and a joy

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Speaker 2: to play. But you're right, Ben. The rules of table

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Speaker 2: ten is very similar to the rules of tennis. Tennis,

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Speaker 2: it's played to eleven points. You have to win by

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Speaker 2: two serves, alternate every two points, except in the event

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Speaker 2: of a tie ten to ten tie, because that would

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Speaker 2: be match points. If I'm not mistaken, then you alternate

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Speaker 2: per point at that point. So a legal serve involves

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Speaker 2: tossing the ball at least six inches straight up from

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Speaker 2: an open palm and hitting it behind the table so

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Speaker 2: it bounces on your side once, then on the opponents side,

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Speaker 2: and players then have to return the ball after one bounce.

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Speaker 2: Can't touch the net or the table with their free hand,

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Speaker 2: and volleying hitting the ball before it bounces is strictly verboten.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I whatever I see rule lists like this,

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Speaker 1: especially given the cultural period we're talking about. I keep

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Speaker 1: imagining them figuring out the rules because of one bad

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Speaker 1: actor who keeps cheating, Like there's one gal who keeps

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Speaker 1: grabbing the net, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or like doing the old Spiker Rooney. You can't

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Speaker 2: spike it right now.

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Speaker 1: You spike it, well, it has to bounce once. It

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Speaker 1: has to bounce once, and then you can absolutely. I'm

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Speaker 1: just picture I'm just picturing somebody at a gentleman's club

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Speaker 1: going to say something.

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Speaker 4: Like, Nigel, you irascible Cad Again, bothol.

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Speaker 2: Of you keeps exactly so. In eighteen ninety seven you

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Speaker 2: see the first national championships that are organized in Hungary.

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Speaker 2: Actually following a trip to the US in nineteen oh one,

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Speaker 2: we got a guy named James Gibb who brings back

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Speaker 2: with him the very first example of that celluloid ball

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Speaker 2: that I mentioned earlier, that you can picture as being

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Speaker 2: the you know, still to this day most popular type

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Speaker 2: of table tennis ball, very much lighter than the rubber

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Speaker 2: balls that we talked about. Therefore, uh huh, much more zippy,

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Speaker 2: you know, and bouncy. Yeah, you could do.

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Speaker 1: More cool tricks. And then we know that this this

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Speaker 1: caught on it's convenient, right, if you have the space

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Speaker 1: and you have the means. It's easy to learn because

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Speaker 1: a lot of people already know tennis and it also,

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Speaker 1: i'll say it, it doesn't demand as much physical fitness

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Speaker 1: as some other forms of recreation.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's funny been thinking about this Parlor Games book.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to see what some other like miniaturized games

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Speaker 2: look like, because I can't really think of any other

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Speaker 2: examples of ones that really stuck around, Like Who's ball

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Speaker 2: is not anything like actual soccer. It's its own thing.

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Speaker 2: But can you think of another game that would uh,

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Speaker 2: that would what's the word translate? In the same way?

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Speaker 2: What a mini version of cricket look like? I don't

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Speaker 2: think it works.

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Speaker 1: I'm in love with the idea of tiny croquet just

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Speaker 1: because it's an inefficient it's.

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Speaker 2: The same as regular croquet. Everything is miniature. Yeah, you

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Speaker 2: have you look ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: You have to have your thumb and forefinger holding holding

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Speaker 1: the club. Yeah, yeah, durable. That's a great question. We

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Speaker 1: should get a hold of the Parlor Games book because

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Speaker 1: I would be cool to see. I bet you like

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Speaker 1: twenty bend bucks. There is there. We're going to see

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Speaker 1: a lot of things that were uh not near a

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Speaker 1: popular and they were probably just super weird.

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Speaker 2: But some things lost to history, like yeah, like lawn darts,

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Speaker 2: you know, lost the history for good reason. I believe

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Speaker 2: they skewered a child or two in their day.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, just like you and I and Max

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Speaker 1: lived through the uh slipping slide era when people started

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Speaker 1: breaking their backs on that thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or like slicing themselves open on like I particularly

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Speaker 2: pointy rock that somebody missed that was underneath the damn thing.

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Speaker 2: We have talked. You know, it's funny. I think I

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Speaker 2: maybe mentioned this in previous discussions we've had around these

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Speaker 2: like games. Uh, there was a class like it was

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Speaker 2: like a pe substitute class I took in college called

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Speaker 2: backyard games. What that's cool? They know, backyard games?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what was your favorite?

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Speaker 2: Fact? It was largely badminton. I just remember playing a

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Speaker 2: lot and I enjoyed it. That was a fun game.

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Speaker 2: But then there were some other real goofy ones that

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Speaker 2: we had to do as well that I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: spacing on what they were, but definitely didn't have any

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Speaker 2: table tennis setups there. We start to see, you know,

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Speaker 2: after this introduction of the Celluloid Ball by James Gibb.

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Speaker 2: Interest starting to kind of rise in the game, and

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Speaker 2: there's enough that we see an association being created in

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Speaker 2: England called the Ping Pong Association. They're still using the

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Speaker 2: colloquialism at the time, but not for long. That was

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Speaker 2: in nineteen oh one, five hundred players and enthusiasts were

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Speaker 2: registered to the organization, and just a year later, in

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Speaker 2: nineteen oh two, you see a British fellow enthusiast fan

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Speaker 2: of the game E. C. Gould introducing the first bats

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Speaker 2: or paddles that were very similar to what we see today,

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Speaker 2: rubber rubberized material glued to wooden circular little mini paddles

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Speaker 2: with little they called they're calling them pimples here on

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Speaker 2: Cornelieu dot com, which a little buss me out. This

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Speaker 2: is what it is. It's a grippy it's that grippy

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Speaker 2: material and it makes sense that it would be it

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Speaker 2: would help with traction, you know, on the ball.

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Speaker 1: Yeah on you ec for saying, okay, lads, the the

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Speaker 1: rubber balls didn't work out, But let's not get rid

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Speaker 1: of rubber entirely because it's a it's a great surface,

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Speaker 1: right because now you get a little more.

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Speaker 2: Grip wonder material time too. Still, we're probably loving, you know,

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Speaker 2: any any use of rubber, and we're going to get

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Speaker 2: into some issues that come as a result of this

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Speaker 2: rubber and changing it out or you know, having little

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Speaker 2: lacks that could maybe make your paddle a little more

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Speaker 2: bouncy than the other guys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because of course, even if it's a non professional sport,

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Speaker 1: there are going to be people who try to sneak

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Speaker 1: in some edgy moves.

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Speaker 2: Like Nigel and Bartholomew like that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, uh so, okay, we we were going back to

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Speaker 1: our question ping pong versus table tennis? What's in a name?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 1: We know, as you found that the Ping Pong Association

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Speaker 1: of eventually had its day in the sun and then

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Speaker 1: kind of fell a little bit in popularity.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much brief, brief candle, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was, but then it became a popular again in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties and that's where they started adopting the

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Speaker 1: name table tennis. So maybe in addition to wanting to

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Speaker 1: be taken a bit more seriously, which I can see,

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Speaker 1: maybe they were also going for a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a rebrand, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I think that's right. They wanted to. I thought ping

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Speaker 2: pong sounded a little too like childish or something, or like,

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Speaker 2: you know, it sounded like a kid's game, and they wanted,

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Speaker 2: you know, they wanted it to be taken seriously. So

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Speaker 2: the original association in the ping pong one had broken

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Speaker 2: up in nineteen oh five. The game did continue, but

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Speaker 2: that just wasn't you know, a governing body, so to speak,

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Speaker 2: mainly outside of London. And then in the twenties you

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Speaker 2: started to see it enter other countries, you know, outside

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Speaker 2: of England, so you started to see the public exhibition

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Speaker 2: type tournaments. Some of the most popular ones took place

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Speaker 2: at Queen's Hall in London. And then in nineteen oh

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Speaker 2: two you started to see the formation of a world

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Speaker 2: championship type event. There we're gonna see a that happened

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Speaker 2: kind of again as a larger governing body sort of

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Speaker 2: swoops in and becomes the sort of you know, taste maker,

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Speaker 2: gatekeeper of the sport. But you are starting to see

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Speaker 2: formations of smaller, more regional and you know, country wide

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Speaker 2: federations or governing organizations, one of which was the British

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Speaker 2: Table Tennis Federation. So of course England in London, and

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Speaker 2: then in some of the suburbs and outside of England,

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Speaker 2: and then you know outside in other parts of Europe.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely the hub of the sport originally, so in

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Speaker 2: nineteen oh seven you start to see the first European Championships,

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Speaker 2: and then in the twenties is when things really get gone.

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Speaker 2: That's when you see the Table Tennis Association, the ITF's

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Speaker 2: who I've mentioned early on in the episode.

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Speaker 1: The Table Tennis Association, not to be confused with the

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Speaker 1: International Table Tennis Federation, which comes about in nineteen twenty six.

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Speaker 1: And this leads us to of course the World Championship

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Speaker 1: picture Eurovision, but a century ago with table tennis instead

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Speaker 1: of pop socks.

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Speaker 2: So these folks are coming because they love the Eurovisions.

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Speaker 2: I really want to man, I don't know much about it.

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Speaker 2: I have some really dear friends in Berlin and they

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Speaker 2: said it's basically like the way we watch like the

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Speaker 2: Super Bowl over absolutely massive to do. I watched it

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Speaker 2: during COVID and uh, yeah, I get it. It's awesome.

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Speaker 2: They have parties over there. It's a spectacle. It's it's

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Speaker 2: something we should do an episode on. So we've got

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Speaker 2: supreme pizza as an episode, and we've got Eurovision. Oh gosh, man,

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Speaker 2: I definitely have to do a Eurovision. That's a great idea, Ben,

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Speaker 2: We've got to do it.

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Speaker 1: So we know that these we know that these championships,

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Speaker 1: the World Championships were a big deal, and other countries

403
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Speaker 1: started to despite the fact that there was already an

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Speaker 1: International Table Tennis Federation, other countries started their own similar

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Speaker 1: nation specific organizations, like, of course the French. Kidding, French,

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Speaker 1: we love you, but they you started your own table

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Speaker 1: Tennis Federation where there already was one Internet.

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Speaker 2: Which makes sense, I guess, because it would be an

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Speaker 2: organization that could maybe help organize regional competitions things that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and helping, you know, just raise the profile within that

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Speaker 2: particular country. Though I'm sure the ITTF, especially nowadays, kind

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Speaker 2: of has a lot of that on luck. I'd be

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Speaker 2: curious to see what some of the other more country

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Speaker 2: specific federations are remaining to this day. The French get

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Speaker 2: in on it eventually in a tournament that takes place

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Speaker 2: in Budapest, Budapest in eighteen twenty nine, and then you

417
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Speaker 2: start to see rising stars like Marty Supreme or like

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Speaker 2: the dude that he's based on a guy by the

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Speaker 2: name of Richard Bergmann, who is an Austro Briton and

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Speaker 2: Franco Polish player a la Soi Alasi Erlik. And then

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Speaker 2: we've got a Romanian fellow by the name of Anglica Rosano.

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Speaker 2: And these were some of the rising stars of the

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Speaker 2: sport at the time. And this is in the era

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Speaker 2: that is depicted in the movie Marty Supreme when we're

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Speaker 2: starting to see this real table tennis fever kind of

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Speaker 2: sweeping the nation.

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Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah, we also know that there were technological advances

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Speaker 1: and setbacks, so not everything was a perfect score for

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Speaker 1: ping pong. As you pointed out earlier, Noel, in the

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Speaker 1: beginning days, when this was a very ad hoc kind

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Speaker 1: of recreation activity for the upper crust, they were using

432
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: found items for paddles, like cigar boxes, and when they

433
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: got pong, actual fat paddles, shout out to Low and

434
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 1: vocal bomb those paddles. Yeah, those paddles didn't have the

435
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 1: materials you're going to see today, No fancy sponges, no rubber. Instead,

436
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: they had this grit kind of fine sandpaper and it

437
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: gave you a very small amount of friction with the ball,

438
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: so you couldn't put any spin on it. You can

439
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: put the English on it. That meant that the ping

440
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: pong players of the time weren't as reliant on speed

441
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: and power. They were more strategic with their moves, and

442
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: the ball was moving slower, and the games took longer.

443
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: They took longer, it was not nearly as exciting to watch.

444
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: You're not seeing as many of this those aces and

445
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 2: spikes as you might see in modern versions of the game.

446
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 2: So a lot of technical innovations came along, changes and

447
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 2: regulations allowing some of the innovations that had a major

448
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 2: impact on the speed and excitement of the sport. You know,

449
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 2: a lot of high profile tournaments had their outcomes affected

450
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,719
Speaker 2: by some of this new stuff and it wasn't considered

451
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: cheating or anything because there was that was allowed. You know,

452
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: in particular, you'd have specific changes to the rubber and

453
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: the blade that were recognized by formerly by the governing body,

454
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 2: the International Table Tennis Federation in nineteen twenty six, which

455
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: is of course still the governing body to this day.

456
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: Modern table tennis rackets have what's called and this is

457
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: coming from a really cool blog, Tom vatch dot com,

458
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: talking about the history of table tennis technology and different

459
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: types of glue we're going to get to in just

460
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: a second. So the blade is the wooden part. The

461
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: rubber is the you know, bouncy material that is attached

462
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 2: to it. Volcanized rubber bonded to an inner layer of

463
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: banded sponge or foam, so it has less dense exactly

464
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: less dense, and it has to be of course attached

465
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 2: to the blade, and doing that required certain types of glue.

466
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: And it was in the nineteen seventies that some European

467
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 2: table tennis players realized that they could kind of try

468
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 2: different types of adhesives that would change the playing characteristics

469
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 2: of the rubber layer. Unfortunately, the ones that were the

470
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: most effective were real fume. Oh right, Okay, this is

471
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: you know, like sniff and glue. You know, yeah, it's

472
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: not good for you.

473
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: This is where we're talking about stuff like trichloroethylene and

474
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: one one trichloro ethane.

475
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: Right. I think that's right, Ben, those are the ones

476
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 2: in question. You were actually allowed to you know, re

477
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: it here your rubber surface, though typically prior to this

478
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 2: situation we're describing here, it would really only be done

479
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: when the old surface had worn out, but there wasn't

480
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 2: any rule against doing it, you know, more frequently. And

481
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 2: at this point, the type of glues that people were

482
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: using were the kind you might see to repair a

483
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: bicycle tire or like you know, plug a leak automotive tire.

484
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: They were one part vulcanizing fluids is what they're referred

485
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 2: to as. And players were finding that what was then

486
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: referred to as speed glue could produce shots with increased

487
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: speed and spin that english you were talking about, ben

488
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: compared to just putting the rubber on with some of

489
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: the traditional rubber cements that were used.

490
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, and this is interesting. And I like the

491
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: reference to tires for cars because it reminds me of

492
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: the way changing tires works in some professional racing, you know,

493
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: like F one or NASCAR. The idea is that you

494
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: can pit crew. Yeah, you can pick crew stuff essentially,

495
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: and you can change out these tires that will affect

496
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: your performance, just like changing out the glue can affect

497
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: the performance of your paddle, but you're sacrificing longevity. So

498
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: speed glue. Speed glue has a big disadvantage, which is

499
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: this high performance gift or this edge that it gives

500
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: you only lasts for a few hours instead of three

501
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: to six months, and the rubber has a shorter playing lifetime,

502
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: so you could do this. And as you said, no,

503
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: it's perfectly legal to reglue the rubber onto your paddle

504
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: between matches.

505
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,479
Speaker 2: However many times you want. At this point, there are

506
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 2: no rules against that. But you've got to have your

507
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: kit with you. You've got to be able to maguiver stuff.

508
00:29:58,840 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: This is fun.

509
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, with your glue bottle, your brushes, your scissors, your

510
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: rolling pins so you can flatten the rubber evenly, and

511
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: then hair dryers even yeah, later hair dryers, which is

512
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: cool because I don't know about a lot of other

513
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: sports that require you to bring hair dryers.

514
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 2: Well, these are all very It's interesting and it almost

515
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: goes back to the diy roots of the sport because

516
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: a lot of this field very do it yourself kind

517
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: of craft project, you know. But as we mentioned, while

518
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: this glue might yield some short term increases in speed

519
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: and bounce, it also contains some pretty gnarly toxic fumes

520
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: that if you surround yourself with it for too long,

521
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: it can cause some real problems. There's an evidence of

522
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: a Japanese player, and this is all pretty recent, by

523
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: the way, collapsing while gluing his paddle during a tournament

524
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven, And as of September one

525
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: of two thousand and eight, the ITTF has banned glues

526
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: containing quote unquote volatile compounds and now allows only water glues.

527
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: And there's like glue sniffing contraption that like test for

528
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: the wrong kind of illegal glues before matches, almost the

529
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: way that you know athletes in the Olympics and other

530
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: high profile competitions are tested for things like blood doping

531
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: and use of steroids. However, I believe that this was

532
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: so controversial and there was concern that it would slow

533
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: down the speed of play that the ITTF kind of

534
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: held back on this decision for a little while. And

535
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: I think now it is in place, But there was

536
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: a while where it was an outcry and I think

537
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: they sort of held back on implementing this. But now

538
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: I think, you know, this is back in two thousand

539
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: and eight, I do believe that it is now illegal

540
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: to use these speed glues.

541
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and at that point it's it's a health concern,

542
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. This is however, this is

543
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: a great time to mention our earlier idea that we

544
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: pitched to Dan Harmon and anything goes Olympics. We don't

545
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: know how the paper work would uh pay.

546
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 2: It out, but you know, didn't we There was a thing.

547
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: Remember there was a story about some.

548
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: Tech Olympic guy.

549
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was it. It was about like steroids allowed

550
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: all all kinds of but we had the growth hormone

551
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: blood doping out. We definitely did, no.

552
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: Question, but that's where that's where this would go. And

553
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: everybody can agree. You know that the health of the athletes,

554
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: the help of the health of the support staff is crucial.

555
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: You know, so play the game to the best of

556
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: your ability, but part of that is also playing the

557
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: game with your health in mind for sure.

558
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: And just to double back again, like none of this

559
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: was like corking your bat in baseball, which is illegal.

560
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: You know, that is like considered cheating or deflate gate.

561
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: Remember deflate Gate in American football. It was this idea

562
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 2: of choosing slightly slightly deflated footballs. This was all above

563
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: board and it wasn't like anybody was doing it in

564
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: secretor in the dark of night. You know, like everyone

565
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: knew that this was being done, and it was allowed

566
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: until it wasn't. Another reason that I think it wasn't

567
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: allowed despite the toxic fumes thing. The ITTF seemed very

568
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: concerned about making the game easier to follow for spectators,

569
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: and apparently those balls were pinging and ponging so fast,

570
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: so that's speed glue that it was hard for the

571
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: eyeball to follow that tiny little thing.

572
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, we're talking.

573
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: What are they doing? Some guys wa with it and

574
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: waffing their arms around. I can't even see them all.

575
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is crazy. Okay, So a world class ping

576
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: pong players, as you mentioned in Tom Vish's website, a

577
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: world class ping pong player can make shots with speeds

578
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: of up to one hundred miles per hour with a

579
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: ball spinning nine thousand revolutions per minute. So, like like

580
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: Nola was saving folks, you can easily imagine how it's

581
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: tough to keep track of everything because these are pretty

582
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: small balls.

583
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 2: And one concern of a body like the ITTF is

584
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: making the game as accessible and as popular as possible,

585
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: So they are thinking about the big picture of like

586
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,959
Speaker 2: what makes this the most engaging too, you know, viewers.

587
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 1: And it turns out that they were onto something because

588
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: as we see I think we'll mention Forrest Gump a

589
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: little bit later too. As we see in the nineteen fifties,

590
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: table tennis really takes off in the Asiatic sphere, just

591
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: like Hungary in days of yore. Japanese teams were a

592
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: huge deal at the World Championships between what nineteen fifty

593
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: four to nineteen fifty nine.

594
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: For sure, and then you start to see the Chinese

595
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 2: teams or it's not really a team sport, is it's

596
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 2: an individual sport. You know, the Chinese entries into the

597
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 2: chat starting to really dominate, that is around nineteen sixty one,

598
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: and then in ninety sixty three and nineteen sixty five

599
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: we see triple world champion titles won by Juan Zeidong.

600
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: And then during this period you start to see ping

601
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: pong almost as a method of soft diplomacy, which I

602
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: know is your wheelhouse.

603
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: Ben. Oh yeah, I man. We're excited about this because

604
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 1: it'll play into the idea of soft diplomacy, plays into

605
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: another episode we're going to have coming up about Thailand.

606
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: But you nailed it. That's exactly what I was thinking

607
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: about that sequence in the film Forrest Gump. Wherefore absolutely

608
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: gets really at the ping pong and then ends up

609
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: playing the Chinese delegation. This is this is fascinating because

610
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: we also see an evolution of strategy. It's nineteen seventy

611
00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: seven and the World Championships are in Birmingham, and this

612
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: is where we see the first official use of something

613
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: called the Chinese service, which is a particular type of serve.

614
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 2: Yep and Asia then, of course, really becomes cemented, rubber

615
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: cemented or spell mood into the annals of a ping

616
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 2: pong slash table tennis history, and I think even to

617
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 2: this day they are quite good.

618
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I have not played ping pong over

619
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: in an Asian country, but I know it's still a

620
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: huge deal and the people who are good at it

621
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: are very very good at it. I don't know how

622
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: are you at table tennis.

623
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 2: I haven't played in a very long time. Dear pal

624
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 2: and friend of the show, Frank just got one a

625
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: table tennis set up and has invited me over to play,

626
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: and I'm sure it would love to have you as well,

627
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 2: and so maybe we should do a little ping pong

628
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: adventure sometime.

629
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: That would be so much fun. I always, I always

630
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: mess up in the first few minutes, because I keep

631
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: forgetting you have to have a light touch.

632
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 2: I know our buddy Chandlers, who we work with on

633
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: podcasts and have known for many, many years. I've seen

634
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 2: on his Instagram stories lately that he's been pinging a

635
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: lot of pongs.

636
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 3: Also, do not try to play putt putt against Chandler.

637
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: That guy is insane. He's so good at pussy.

638
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: He's great, plays regular tennis. He's a serious he's a

639
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: serious athlete.

640
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 3: We've had a company outing where we played putt putt

641
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 3: not that long ago, and man, he smoked everybody. I

642
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 3: was playing with the guy who was really good, and

643
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: then look to this scorn. It was nothing competed to Chandler's.

644
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is in Chad, I love you, man,

645
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: I say this with great affection. You are always going

646
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: to be also way more competitive than I am.

647
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: Just he's got fire in the blood.

648
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: That's why I love playing games with Chandler, because we're

649
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: so different in that regard, and he's usually going to

650
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: be better at the game that I'm endlessly congratulated because

651
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: I think it's cool.

652
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 2: It's good to be good at stuff, no question about it.

653
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: Speaking of being good at stuff. We've already really seen

654
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 2: the transition of table tennis from like a you know,

655
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: a quaint little parlor game to a serious competitive sport.

656
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: This is no question about this, But we have not

657
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 2: yet entered the world of the Olympics. It doesn't happened

658
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: until almost the nineties.

659
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? It's lately crazy to eighties. So this

660
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: has ping pong has become such a global phenomenon that

661
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: it's actually a form of diplomacy right for decades at

662
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: this point, and in nineteen eighty eight, like with player

663
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: exchanges and normalizing relations between hostile countries, so that thank you, Ben.

664
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: It's weird, right, So South Korea, Soul, they have the

665
00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: Olympics nineteen eighty eight and table tennis officially become an

666
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: Olympic sport, and you know, no surprise to a lot

667
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 1: of the people following ping pong, the winners are both

668
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: from Asia. The female Chinese player Chen Jing takes the

669
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: gold medal in her category and the male Korean national

670
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: Yu nam q takes gold medal in his category.

671
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: And it's interesting that we don't really even see like

672
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: pro tours, we've got the sport in the Olympics. But

673
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: there's nothing resembling like the PGA. You know that we

674
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 2: have surrounding you know, golf of course, but we have

675
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 2: that happening in nineteen ninety six, so well, almost a

676
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: decade after that first Olympic inclusion. And yeah, to what

677
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 2: we were saying earlier, it has largely remained dominated by

678
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: Asian players since the beginning of the professional world of

679
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 2: ping pong, and that includes the triple world champion and

680
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: world number one player for many years, Wang Liquin. Oh

681
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 2: and to answer my own question that I posed earlier,

682
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: I believe Ben you could probably confirm this tennis. Table

683
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 2: tennis is the most practiced sport in all of Asia.

684
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's still a huge, huge deal.

685
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: You know, I put it up there with football or

686
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: excuse me, soccer in Latin America. You know, people love

687
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: it and we know that now the International Table Tennis

688
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 1: Federation includes more than two hundred nations. It's the size

689
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: of a nation itself in terms of membership and population.

690
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: Thirty three million people are part of the itt F.

691
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: Remember the earliest ones we mentioned, I think it was

692
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 2: something like fifty or five hundred sorry players. Yeah, that

693
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 2: we're involved and even then at the time that seemed

694
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: like a lot because it was much more niche. But

695
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: it is. It's huge, bigger than bigger than Rock and roll.

696
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 2: Maybe not, it'll give rock and Roll a run for

697
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 2: its money. But ben you teased Forrest Gump. I think

698
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: a lot of our first you know, views into ping

699
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 2: pong as a serious sport and as a method of

700
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: soft diplomacy was from the nineteen ninety four film Forrest Gump,

701
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,959
Speaker 2: where the title character played by Tom Hanks, after being

702
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 2: discharged from the military because I believe the bullet flew

703
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: up and bit him in the butt.

704
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you get a billion dollars wound a ticket home,

705
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: that's right. So a bullet that takes about a service

706
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: and puts him in the hospital for a little bit.

707
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: But does it ruin his life?

708
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: No, And I think it's in the hospital that he

709
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 2: just gradually starts to enjoy playing table tennis, because that's,

710
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 2: you know, again, while it is a serious sport at

711
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: this time, or it's beginning to be, it's also still

712
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: a fun parlor game, you know. And he, of course

713
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: is also an elite American football player, a shrimp boat captain,

714
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 2: and a professional table tennis player. And one thing I'll

715
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 2: always remember about that scene where they're recreating footage of

716
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: him playing table tennis is that the balls were moving

717
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: so fast that they were animated in the ball. And

718
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: that was like, at the time, a really big deal

719
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: in you know, special effects.

720
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, especially because it was so subtle. You know,

721
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: it looked believable. It was quite impressive, you know. And

722
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: we also, okay, we also see a wonderful easter egg

723
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: that I wasn't aware of. I actually had to go

724
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: back and watch this sequence after you pointed this out

725
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: in your research. The director, Robert Zemeckis does something really clever,

726
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: and it's a special gift for actual ping pong fans.

727
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: It's all about the grip. Remember we mentioned the Chinese

728
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: service when Forrest is picking up the ping pong paddle.

729
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: Originally he uses the traditional grip what we call the

730
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,439
Speaker 1: shake hand grip, kind of like how you would hold

731
00:42:58,880 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: a hand mirror.

732
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: Right, Can I just say, why do they call it

733
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: the shake hand grip and not the handshake grip? That

734
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 2: just makes that boils my blood? Yeah, that shaa, it

735
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 2: really does, man, that's cool. Yeah, it is. It is

736
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: the grip that would be typically used by players today.

737
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: He continues to use this grip until he travels to China,

738
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 2: where he sees players using a grip that was much

739
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: more popular over there, called the penholed grip, which is

740
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 2: an alternate style of holding the paddle that had been

741
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 2: popularized over there and was you know, favored by Chinese players,

742
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: especially in the heights of its rise there in the

743
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: mid twentieth century. He uses this grip later in the film.

744
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and this he's using this gript specifically towards

745
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: the end of the film when he plays the game

746
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: with spoiler his son Forrest. She sees dead people, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

747
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: that's the spoiler for sixth sense. The whole time, that's

748
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: Bruce Willis. He's just playing a different character.

749
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: It's true. No, we're talking about a little baby. Haley

750
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 2: Joel Osmon big big winner and cleaned up at the

751
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 2: Oscars Best Picture, Best Director for Zamecha's Best Adapted Screenplay,

752
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: Best Editing, Best Visual Effects. There were a couple other

753
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: really good, low key, brilliant effects where it's like showing

754
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: gump in you know, imposed into historical events really really

755
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: thoughtfully and creatively and convincingly. Rather yeah, and with.

756
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: Some alarming historical accuracy, because Lyndon Johnson was known to

757
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: be fascinated by scars. That's why that's why when he's

758
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 1: talking to Forrest Gump in that scene.

759
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 2: I'd like to say that something yeah, and he moons him.

760
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: We also would be remiss if we didn't mention that

761
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: there was a Forrest Gump is based on a novel,

762
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: and there was supposed to be a sequel because of

763
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: the man success of the film adaptation.

764
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 2: There was a sequel to the novel, but they didn't

765
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 2: make it into a movie.

766
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: Because the guy who actually wrote the story, unfortunately he

767
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: got hollywooded out of his share of the profits, so

768
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: he didn't really make a dime out of it. That's

769
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 1: why there's not a Forrest Gump sequel. It's a tangent,

770
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: but it's important for us to mention it.

771
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 2: I did also read something interesting too about how like

772
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: they ran out of money on production of Forrest Gump,

773
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 2: and there were some sequences that they weren't going to

774
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 2: be able to shoot. But Tom Hanks, like I think

775
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: he exchanged a big part of his salary for like

776
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 2: points on the back end, which obviously ended up working

777
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 2: on in his favor, but he like donated his salary

778
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: to help pay for some of these sequences that they

779
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 2: like didn't have the money to do.

780
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: Tom Hanks seems like a stand up guy man, and

781
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: true she.

782
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: Just canceled out as don't know why, I don't know

783
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: what to do. It's not gonna happen.

784
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: We'll have good life to pause the show for like

785
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: a week to mourn. But what one cool Tom Hanks

786
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: fact is he is We mentioned this on another show somewhere,

787
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: but he is super duper into old school typewriters, so

788
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 1: much so the word on the street is if you

789
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: write him a letter on your typewriter, he will take

790
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: out one of his typewriters and type a letter back

791
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: to you. So ti him up.

792
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, on another one of our discussions recently, it must

793
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: have been on stuff they don't want you to know.

794
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 2: Check us out on Netflix, by the.

795
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: Way, Oh nice segue. Yeah, we are as of this week,

796
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: live and direct with two new episodes per week on Netflix.

797
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: So if you're thinking, ah, I'd love to give the

798
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: guys a rating or a review, or oh I'd love

799
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: to hear more strange things from these Jibroni's, then Hi,

800
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: the to Netflix and click the remind me button and

801
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: then click the little thumbs up button. That'll be a

802
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: massive help to us. And we couldn't thank you more, folks.

803
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: And no, I can't thank you more for this awesome

804
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: research which really makes you want to want to play

805
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: Ping pong. Not at the Chandler's level, but.

806
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: Just no, I'm sure that guy's brutal at a restaurant somewhere.

807
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 2: We're gonna wrap it up to just dovetail back to

808
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 2: how we started the episodes talking about Marty Supreme. So

809
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 2: I'm very much excited to see You know, it's still

810
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 2: in cinemas. Do check it out if you want to

811
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: get out to the movies. I am going to try

812
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 2: to catch it before it leaves, but I also think

813
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 2: it'd probably be cool to watch at home. There is

814
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 2: a dude that The Marty Supreme character portrayed by Timmy

815
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 2: Challamey is based on a guy named Marty Resman, who

816
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 2: is an award winning table tennis player. Born in New

817
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 2: York City in the Lower East Side to Russian Jewish

818
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: immigrant parents in nineteen thirty. He got really into table

819
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 2: tennis as a kid, and in an interview with Forbes

820
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 2: magazine in two thousand and five, said that he learned

821
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 2: how to play at a local community center after having

822
00:47:54,680 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 2: some significance nervous issues. Let's just say I mean term

823
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 2: nervous breakdown. I find to be a little bit hyperbolic,

824
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 2: but it does seem that as a young man or

825
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: young like a nine year old, he was dealing with

826
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 2: some anxiety and some difficulties there and this helped him

827
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: kind of focus a bit. Yeah, And he used it

828
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 2: initially as an escape for quickly.

829
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: In recovery just so wound, Yeah, just.

830
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 2: So, and then used it as a as a means

831
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 2: to a career and became real competitive at thirteen.

832
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: And he was known for an aggressive, flashy playing style.

833
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: He had his own signature super moved the atomic blast,

834
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: which was.

835
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 2: Going to be a massive spike right right.

836
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: One hundred and fifteen miles per hour. This guy, and

837
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: he was also similar to Michael Jordan. He was no

838
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: stranger to the world of gambling and the whims of fate.

839
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: He would place bets on himself.

840
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: Hey, you know what they say, bet on yourself, you know, right.

841
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: Right, And we know that when he was fifteen years old,

842
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: still a very very young person, a child, his reputation

843
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: for a hustling people as a ping pong shark came

844
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: back to haunt him. He bet five hundred bucks on

845
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: himself at a national tournament in Detroit, but he accidentally

846
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: handed the money not to a bookie but to the

847
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: head of the United States Table Tennis Association.

848
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 2: And I say we leave it there as not to

849
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 2: spoil any events of the movie Marty Supreme, But yeah,

850
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 2: do check it out. It sounds like a romp that's

851
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 2: gonna have involved table tennis Tyler the creators in it.

852
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: Oh cool. I just I'm very excited to see it.

853
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 2: But this has been a super fun episode, a lot

854
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 2: more involved than I would have expected, almost two partner material,

855
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 2: but not quiet wouldn't have been a good place to

856
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 2: break it. So we give you. We gift you with

857
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 2: this beefy episode of ridiculous history.

858
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: And thanks as always to our super producer mister Max Williams.

859
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 1: Thanks to aj Bahamas Jacobs and you know what I'm

860
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: going to say it I don't always do it, but

861
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 1: an actual thank you to Jonathan Strickland aka the quister

862
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: who wrote the Human Ping Pong Ball Human ping Pong Ball,

863
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: who wrote us a very nice message about getting on Netflix.

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Speaker 1: So thank you, Jy.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joey. I love the guy.

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00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: He's all right, three out of five.

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Speaker 2: He's a good dude. Yeah, and thanks to you, Ben,

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Speaker 2: this is a lot of fun. Thanks super producer Max

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Speaker 2: of course, Alex Williams who composed this theme, Chris Frasciotis

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Speaker 2: and Eaves, Jeff Coates, Aaron Spirit.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for the awesome research here, Noel, and thanks to

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Speaker 1: the rude dudes of Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us,

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Speaker 1: you'll love them.

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Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.

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Speaker 4: Books.

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Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.