WEBVTT - Bachelor Bubble 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:05.399 Wind Down with Jana Kramer and I'mheart Radio Podcast. 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:12.600 Okay, so super excited about this week's episode. We have 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.040 Zach Clark coming on the show. He was the winner 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:20.119 of Tasha's season of The Recent Bachelorette, so we're super 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.720 excited to talk all about his road to recovery from 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:26.120 his addictions and just. 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:30.640 His road to being the victor on the Bachelorette. The Victor, 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:31.960 the Victor. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.800 The Victor. I also super excited because we have Pittsburgh 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:39.360 Pam joining us today. Hey, Pittsburgh baby. So Pammy is 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:44.239 a Pamelin. Sorryam Pammy. Pamelin is an amazing friend. We 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:48.040 actually met in Los Angeles and then I told her, 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.400 you know, we were moving to Nashville. And then when 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:55.040 she was debating moving, I was like, come move in 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.600 our sub So now we're neighbors and it's. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.760 Just our daughters are bestie. Yeah, that's great. 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:06.520 Yeah, the daughters are besties. She's just extraordinary of everything 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.119 and crafts. Honestly, like I said this the other day 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.720 when I was with the kids, how do you Because 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:15.960 I'm just not a crafty mom, and sometimes I feel 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.920 really bad about that, Like I feel I feel guilty. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:20.840 We all have our strengths, my dear. 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.600 Well, and yeah, your strengths kind of go across the 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:25.119 board here. 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.080 Yeah, because your strengths are like, I mean, you like 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:29.760 the stuff that you do in the neighborhood with the kids, 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.280 and even when Jolie comes over, it's like, oh man, 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.080 you made that over at you know, at Pamlin's house, 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:36.840 and like the kids come here and they're like, we 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:43.600 watched Aladdin. So I'm like, out, how do you I mean, 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.360 do you just love doing arts and crafts or was 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:47.600 it something that your mom did with you? 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:49.800 Yeah, I mean it was something like I like grew 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.680 up doing like my mom is definitely you know, like that, 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.000 and so I think, yeah, you're just like taught and 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:57.800 it's just kind of like all you know. So then 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.840 I had these like two little girls and and you know, 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.000 started doing it and now I like created these monsters 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:08.680 where it's like if we're not making something super fun 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.920 or doing something creative, They're like, why aren't we doing 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.320 you know, crafts today? And I'm like, oh my gosh, 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.559 what have I done? But it's definitely fun. Sometimes I 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:20.800 do need a break. 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.200 So you set the standard so high so early that 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:24.600 there's no way back. 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.720 Yeah, all my like friends are like, man, you really 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.880 messed up, like you just you know you did it wrong. 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.440 I mean set them low. 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:34.440 You guys are the ones where you know, we have 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:36.280 a lot of neighborhood kids that are around the same age. 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.280 And when you know, your oldest comes to the bus 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.280 stop and the other kids, I'll come to the bus 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.240 stop like look her up and down, say I say 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:46.320 all the Yeah, first of all, your daughter's dressed better 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:47.520 than the adults, and the. 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:49.760 Pamelin goes, oh, I made that from like the curtains 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.000 right last night. 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:53.960 And then like say, all the kids have like a 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.760 science project. Everyone else would have like rubber bands and 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.679 like some sticks or something, and Pamelin would have to 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.520 get like a trailer to haul like her daughters up 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.320 the street because it's so big and perfect. And oh, 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:07.160 you guys are this is the way. 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:08.079 It is too kind. 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.480 And you have a book coming out. I do tell 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.560 us about the kid's book coming up. Thanks, Usually it's 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.600 a it's a kid's book, but also you go you explain. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.320 It, Okay. So the book is called Gratitude the Great 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.640 and it is a children's picture book, but it's all 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:28.480 about gratitude and kind of you know, ways to incorporate 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.760 daily gratitude rituals, you know, into your lives. And we 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.080 all know that, like children aren't just going to come 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.360 up with these things. It's the parents that have to 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:42.280 initiate it. And really you know, instill that message like 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.120 into children early, and it's just so much more than 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.960 saying like thank you. That's not like the gratitude that 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:51.080 I'm talking about. I'm talking about like gratitude from your 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:56.680 soul and like knowing, like you know, feeling actual gratitude, 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.360 like you know, somebody did something so nice for you. 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.360 Like let's feel it because it's a feeling, and then 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.200 let's act on it by you know, writing a note 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.200 or making sure we you know, say special things to people. 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.160 But there's all these different rituals that like we do 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.520 as a family that I also like incorporate into this 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:18.120 like very special story. And you know, again it is 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.359 a kid's book, but it's like so good. Like I 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.240 said before, you know, the best virtues in the world 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.600 are not taught, they're caught. So it's like we as 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.920 parents have to live these lives you know of gratitude 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:37.200 and all these other amazing virtues out there and then 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:41.839 our kids will just follow. And you know, for me, 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.760 gratitude I call it like the greatest natural superpower in 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:50.559 the world. It is does not discriminate, It is free 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.400 to the entire universe, and it can change your life, 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.599 like if you start your foundation as a child living 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.320 in gratitude it, I mean there's science behind it. You know, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.760 it will forever like change the trajectory of your life. 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.560 And so I'm so passionate about it. It's changed my life. 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.440 So I wrote a children's book about it and it's 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:11.080 coming out May. 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.799 Fourth, So they should follow you on your Instagram. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:18.839 Yes, House of Bachery and also Gratitude the Great. I 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:20.760 now have an Instagram handle for that. 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:21.560 Yay. 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.679 How do you are How do you with with your daughters? 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.800 Because I feel like, you know, it'll be simple or 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.599 easier to teach her or show them how to be 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.800 grateful or or express gratitude when someone does something nice 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.400 for you right and do something in return out of gratitude. 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:38.200 How do you do it where it's more of a 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.240 because you know, as adults, if you do some work, 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.200 you're able to have this moments of gratitude where Jane 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:44.599 and I will share them. They'll just kind of come 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:46.760 right Okay, It's almost like a daydream and say, man, 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.640 I'm just so grateful for where my life is high 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:53.080 on this life right like in that moment. So have 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.000 you addressed that with your girls? And how do you 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.200 kind of you know, help push them along to understand 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.120 that concept of yes. 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.719 Right, because like when you know little kids, it's a 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.520 it's a lot of the tangible like present things, right. 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.039 And so one thing we do we call it pillow chat, 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.760 and it's at night and this is like in the book, 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:17.560 but we have this heart crystal and we think that 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:19.600 like you know, crystals like you know, send out all 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.280 this great like energy. And so we each hold the 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.640 crystal and we talk about like something that we were 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:29.840 like grateful for that happened today, or you know, a 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.360 feeling that we were grateful for today. So it's not 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.359 about like I got a you know, I got a 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.080 new lol doll, right, It's nothing like that. And so 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.359 you know, I always go first to kind of like 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.240 set the tone, and it's you know, nothing that's tangible. 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.360 It's like, you know, I'm so grateful for picking those 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.040 flout beautiful flowers with you on our special mommy and 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.560 daughter walk today, and then they kind of then go 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:55.680 with that same theme. It's like that kid in class 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:57.880 who like, you know, what's your favorite thing? The one 0:06:57.920 --> 0:06:59.960 first kid says, then all the kids say the same thing. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.320 So it's kind of like set in the tone. So 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:07.320 we do that every night. And then what I noticed 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.880 we've been doing it for years, and what I noticed 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:16.760 is then they're able to kind of acknowledge those special 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.520 moments and feelings. Then like throughout the day, like I 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:22.920 mean so many times, you know, me and Harlowe will 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:27.120 be driving and she's like, Mommy, these trees are so beautiful, 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.560 Like I'm so grateful to see them. That's you know 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:32.880 that Then it just like I was saying that, it 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.080 just kind of snowballs and it just becomes your normal life. 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:38.760 And then you know, and then when you get older 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.120 and tough things start to happen, you know, and you're 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.400 like salty at the world, you know, because something bad happened. 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.840 You can then hopefully like pull in those tools to 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.880 find the beauty and things that you know money can't 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:53.480 buy or. 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:54.240 That's so awesome. 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:55.840 Yeah, I love that. And Mike and I have kind 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:00.120 of similar to that, like we've been saying every morning, 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:01.920 like I'm grateful for you, and it kind of just 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.920 sets the tone of the day so that we're not 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.160 high on like negative energy or you know, it's just 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.120 like we're acknowledging each other taking a. 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.440 Second to yeah, we just wanted to start the day. 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.880 We just found ourselves like contesting each other early in 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:19.600 the day at times like why it's like why can't 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.440 we just start with like almost like a clean state, right, 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.640 so even if the night before wasn't great or the 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:28.560 day before wasn't great, refreshing that morning being like, look, 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.000 I'm grateful for you because at the end of the day, 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:31.920 I am, I appreciate you whatever it is. 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.600 And also like you know, just like the energy of 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.800 that coming out of your mouth and sending that message 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:40.960 to the universe, you know, is going to get like 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.560 bounced back to you. And so it's kind of like 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:48.960 if you're ever thinking something that's nice, say it, say 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:49.880 it to anybody. 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:50.320 You know. 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.319 I mean, you're so good at that. I feel like Janna, 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.560 You're always like, you know, you guys are so such 0:08:55.720 --> 0:09:00.240 nice win the world. But it really, I think, you know, 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.400 makes a difference, And so I just wanted to do 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.160 this book to try to like just keep you know, 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.839 encouraging parents, like this is our job, you know, and 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.240 we need a reminder all the time. 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.640 You're right, Well, I love you, Pittsburgh Pam, thanks for 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.079 coming on. You're also got a big, big Bachelorette Bachelor fan. Yes, 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.520 so excited to get Zach Clark on. Let's take a 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:25.800 break and then we'll get him on. 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:41.360 All right, so we have mister Bachelorette winner himself, Zach 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.040 Clark with us on the show to say, today, Zach, 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:45.000 how you doing, man. 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:47.520 I'm good, Mike, thanks for having me on. 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.720 I was really excited about you. First of all, I 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:53.640 was a huge fan of you on the show. I've 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.480 I got to be honest and Pittsburgh Pam knows this. 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:01.640 I I never really watched an entire season. I usually 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.440 watch like the beginning and then I'll maybe watch the end. 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:10.400 But Tasha was by far the best Bachelorette ever. I mean, 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:14.560 she was just really confident. She was you know, just 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:19.280 so true. And I loved watching you because I was like, okay, 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.400 thank you, like someone that has depth and that has 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.880 a journey and has been through and you know, but 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.840 you come in with such confidence, and I remember telling 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:30.800 my husband, I was like, this is my favorite dude 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.560 right here. I hope he wins Like he's awesome. I 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:36.679 just love your whole journey. And then obviously we talk 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.080 a lot about addiction on the show, so I'm just 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.720 excited to get in on all of it right now. 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:47.880 But so, yeah, I'm really excited. I guess one of 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.120 the things that I was kind of curious was because 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.680 you seemed so confident describing your journey with Taysha, did 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:56.480 you because it didn't come off like you were nervous 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.000 at all. I mean, are you just kind of like, 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.920 this is my life and this is what I've been 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.959 through in the addictions, and or were you nervous telling 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.040 her that, thinking, oh man, she might send me home. 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.640 I mean, I mean my attitude around that was just 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:12.560 like any other date I've been on, right, Like, if 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:14.199 she's not going to love me for who I am, 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:16.360 then it's better that we we end this thing now, 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:18.720 then get into it and come to find out that 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.080 there's going to be an issue there. So for me, like, 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.360 I'm really proud of who I am and it's a 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.520 huge part of me. My recovery obviously, and it allows 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.800 me to live the badass next level of life that 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.000 I get to live. So yeah, I was just going 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.480 to lay it all out there and she obviously. That 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:36.560 was one of the things that I was most attracted 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.640 to in her, is that not only with me, but 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:41.360 with all the guys there, she was able to take 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.439 on a lot of you know, pold space for us, 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.040 and I think you saw there were some guys there 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.800 who've been through some stuff. So I definitely noticed that 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:50.880 early on with her. 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.200 Was that when you when you talked about the addiction 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.560 in your past and everything, you know, whether on screen 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.000 or off, did she show a lot of understanding Because 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.960 there's some people that don't really understand the concept unless 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.839 they're directly affected by addiction or they just have never 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.920 experienced any kind of it. So was she understanding of 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.200 the whole concept of what it means and all that? 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.360 She was definitely open minded to it. You know, it's funny, Mike, 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:18.240 I think my experience in life has told me usually 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.840 you tell someone you're a drug addict or an alcoholic 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:22.840 or whatever it is, and it goes one of two ways. 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.320 It's like, you know, they know that there's a family 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.600 member or someone that they've been associated with in their 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.160 lives that have struggled with it, and so they have, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.240 you know, some knowledge or education around the topic, or 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.120 they know nothing about it and they want to throw 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.760 you in this bucket of like this dude is weird 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.320 or sick or whatever it is. And it's funny. She 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.000 was kind of in the middle, like she didn't have 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:48.600 any direct I think, experience with it, but she definitely 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:50.440 had an open mind and she asked her all the 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.000 right questions and some of the things you hear earlier. 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:59.120 I'm like, can I drink and then kiss you? I'm like, yeah, yeah, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:12:59.640 that's yeah. 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:01.400 That she was conscious of even that. 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.439 Yeah, yeah, she's a sweetheart. 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.400 How was it when you did the hometown dates because 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.760 I don't remember. I don't Maybe you guys did talk 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.240 about it, but I don't remember being aired. Was that 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.960 something that you talked about with her dad. 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:19.160 Or so I'm trying to think how that played. First 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.520 of all the hometowns, you know, I caught a lot 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.800 of because I did mine in New York City quote unquote, 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.000 and I'm from Philly, so Philly was not happy. 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:31.800 I read that not messing with Philly. 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:33.640 It's all right, it's a long life. I'll make it 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.719 up to him. No, I think her dad. Yes, I 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.400 got into what I do for work with her old man, 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.640 and I think that spoke to my just general experience 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.680 in life. It's kind of like, Okay, I run these 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.920 programs and do interventions and help people get sober. Okay, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:51.840 how did you get involved in that? Then that always 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.319 leads into I don't really have much to hide behind 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.760 because it's not like I'm sober and I work in finance. 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.640 I'm sober and I work in the feet. It's like 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:02.120 it kind of hits you right in the face. So 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.600 we got into it, and you know, he was super 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.599 open minded to it all, which I appreciated. 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.520 Was you know, in release recovery, which is which is 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.160 the you know what you founded with your buddy justin. 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:17.719 Is it twelve step based or is there a lot 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:18.760 of other elements to it. 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.160 Look, we're big believers in twelve step. You know, we've 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:27.880 seen we've seen the twelve steps obviously change a lot 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.160 of lives. And it's crazy to think that like, you know, 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.440 the stockbroker and this doctor back in the nineteen thirties, 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.680 like got together and wrote the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:42.480 and that's still like getting a ton of people sober today. 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:47.760 But I will say that, you know, in our programs 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.960 there are guys and girls that come in that are 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.320 super resistant to twelve Step and it's our job to 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.280 kind of, you know, just be shurpas and tell them that, 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.920 like that's okay, you know, and there's other programs, there's 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.440 other ways to get connected. But it's not just because 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.920 you're not into twelve step recovery does not mean you 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.760 have an excuse to not get connected to other human beings. 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:08.200 You know, like we're not going to let that be 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.400 a front. And we're very clear on that that that 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.320 you know, from from from the outset. 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:16.960 Have you have you had people come through that have 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:18.880 suffered from sex and love addiction? 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.120 Yeah, of course, man, Like we always we always talk 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.280 about right like seven it's kind of like seven trash 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:27.240 cans five with I mean a lot of times when 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.400 when we see people get sober, that's when a sex 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.280 edition flares up or eat sorder flares up. And you know, 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:38.600 I never personally had the sex thing. I know a 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.840 lot of people who have, and it's real, Mike, I 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.040 read a little bit about you. Man, congrats on some 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.360 of the stuff you're doing. It's inspiring for sure, and 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:49.640 for a man to come out and be open with 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:51.680 that stuff, it's cool. You know, Like I need guys 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.320 like you in my corner, So no question right. 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:54.640 Back at you. 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.000 I'm curious though about because I always like feel for 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.400 Mike because if someone says, yeah, I'm an alcoholic or 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.400 I'm you know, I'm in I was a drug addict, 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.040 they're like, oh man, I'm so sorry. But when Mike 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.080 says he's a sex addict, people are like, oh, like, 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:11.080 it's it's. 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.440 Like this there's still a stigma around it. 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.120 Yeah, where it's they either don't believe it or they 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.040 think it's an excuse or I mean, how are I guess, 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.800 like with your recovery and addiction program you're doing, it's like, 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:28.640 how how are you helping not like normalize this addiction, 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.920 but also to make the person not feel so shameful 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:33.760 and with any of their addictions. 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:36.280 Yeah. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:38.480 Yeah, it's a big deal for me, and I think 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.880 it's one of the things that as my career my 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.000 life continues to evolve, that word stigma. I don't even 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:45.680 know how I feel about it right, Like, sometimes I 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.680 feel like when I use that word, it stigmatizes it 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:52.320 more almost, you know, because of just like the sound, 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.440 I don't know, something weird with that word. It's like 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.160 I feel like we're actually doing ourselves at disservice. I mean, 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.160 I think for me, that just comes back to sharing 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.360 my experience with people, like really being able to sit 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.560 them down and you know, aside from getting engagitation having 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:09.840 this beautiful love story unfold, like, one of the beautiful 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.080 things that's come of the show is just this ability 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.320 to say to people who are in early recovery, like, look, 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.240 literally anything is possible if you just fasten your seatbelt 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.080 and do some of these things and have a willingness 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:24.040 to be honest and share with people. And I think 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:25.679 it's one of the biggest hurdles that we face in 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.639 early recovery. It's just that guilt, that shame. How do 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:30.359 I date? How do I go out and have a drink? 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.639 You know, certainly with the sex addiction thing, and guys 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.600 that I know who have struggled with that, yeah, there's 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.119 a lot of guilt and shame around that, and then 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.560 for their partner, you know, sticking it out with them 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:43.920 and all that that comes with it and having kid. 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:48.159 You know, it's messy and it's gnarly, but there's hope 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:48.639 for sure. 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.639 With you being in recovery for the past even so 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:52.760 ever since what twenty. 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.320 Eleven, Yeah, August twenty eleven. 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.840 So for the last you know, going on ten years 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.600 and this being your your career too, do you find 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.080 it difficult to not, like, say, put yourself on the 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.120 show for instance, where you have all these guys who 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.040 are drinking, are doing these things where you like try 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.159 not to be judgmental, be like, man, that guy probably 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.040 needs to come to my program, or like how do 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.920 you kind of compartmentalize or separate that so you don't 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.280 have this like judgmental mindset in certain moments like that. 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.520 Yeah, I've had to really learn to, you know, keep 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.159 to myself on some of that stuff and just be 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:31.240 be there when people need me, you know. And I 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.640 think some of my best work has been done by 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.000 me saying nothing at all and just having people watch 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.280 the way that I live. And I've had more people 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:40.720 come back to me and say, it wasn't what you 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.760 what you said, It's more of what I saw, you know, 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.800 that was attractive to the way you were living your life. Typically, 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.600 when I call someone out on their sir have an opinion, 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.680 it doesn't go well, you know, it just doesn't because 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:54.720 they're not ready to hear it. 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:56.800 No, aleks don't like to be called out. Come on. 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.680 I can see that some of the greatest virtues are 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.440 you know, caught, not taught. It's like, you know, by 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.560 showing is probably better than calling out, for sure. I 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:08.919 love that. 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:14.800 I'm curious, like you know, because Tasha isn't doesn't know 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.720 this world as much. Obviously you're helping her. Is there 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.040 resources that you know, do you do you think she 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.000 should go to or have you encouraged her to go 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:24.600 to like an alan On or any of those places 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.800 so that she can understand or learn more about, you know, 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.840 just behaviors and things like that. 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.240 Yeah, No, it's uh, it's it's super cool. I mean, like, yes, 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.440 obviously there's great resources out there with with with anan 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:44.080 on and on and just family support groups and a 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:48.000 lot of treatment programs, have you know, uh, parents support 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.000 groups and that type of thing, or partner support groups. 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:54.720