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Speaker 1: Wind Down with Jana Kramer and I'mheart Radio Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so super excited about this week's episode. We have

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Speaker 2: Zach Clark coming on the show. He was the winner

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Speaker 2: of Tasha's season of The Recent Bachelorette, so we're super

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Speaker 2: excited to talk all about his road to recovery from

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Speaker 2: his addictions and just.

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Speaker 3: His road to being the victor on the Bachelorette. The Victor,

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Speaker 3: the Victor.

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Speaker 2: The Victor. I also super excited because we have Pittsburgh

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Speaker 2: Pam joining us today. Hey, Pittsburgh baby. So Pammy is

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Speaker 2: a Pamelin. Sorryam Pammy. Pamelin is an amazing friend. We

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Speaker 2: actually met in Los Angeles and then I told her,

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Speaker 2: you know, we were moving to Nashville. And then when

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Speaker 2: she was debating moving, I was like, come move in

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Speaker 2: our sub So now we're neighbors and it's.

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Speaker 3: Just our daughters are bestie. Yeah, that's great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the daughters are besties. She's just extraordinary of everything

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Speaker 2: and crafts. Honestly, like I said this the other day

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Speaker 2: when I was with the kids, how do you Because

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Speaker 2: I'm just not a crafty mom, and sometimes I feel

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Speaker 2: really bad about that, Like I feel I feel guilty.

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Speaker 1: We all have our strengths, my dear.

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Speaker 3: Well, and yeah, your strengths kind of go across the

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Speaker 3: board here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because your strengths are like, I mean, you like

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Speaker 2: the stuff that you do in the neighborhood with the kids,

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Speaker 2: and even when Jolie comes over, it's like, oh man,

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Speaker 2: you made that over at you know, at Pamlin's house,

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Speaker 2: and like the kids come here and they're like, we

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Speaker 2: watched Aladdin. So I'm like, out, how do you I mean,

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Speaker 2: do you just love doing arts and crafts or was

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Speaker 2: it something that your mom did with you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was something like I like grew

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Speaker 1: up doing like my mom is definitely you know, like that,

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Speaker 1: and so I think, yeah, you're just like taught and

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Speaker 1: it's just kind of like all you know. So then

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Speaker 1: I had these like two little girls and and you know,

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Speaker 1: started doing it and now I like created these monsters

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Speaker 1: where it's like if we're not making something super fun

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Speaker 1: or doing something creative, They're like, why aren't we doing

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Speaker 1: you know, crafts today? And I'm like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: what have I done? But it's definitely fun. Sometimes I

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Speaker 1: do need a break.

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Speaker 3: So you set the standard so high so early that

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Speaker 3: there's no way back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all my like friends are like, man, you really

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Speaker 1: messed up, like you just you know you did it wrong.

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Speaker 2: I mean set them low.

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Speaker 3: You guys are the ones where you know, we have

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Speaker 3: a lot of neighborhood kids that are around the same age.

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Speaker 3: And when you know, your oldest comes to the bus

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Speaker 3: stop and the other kids, I'll come to the bus

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Speaker 3: stop like look her up and down, say I say

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Speaker 3: all the Yeah, first of all, your daughter's dressed better

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Speaker 3: than the adults, and the.

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Speaker 2: Pamelin goes, oh, I made that from like the curtains

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Speaker 2: right last night.

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Speaker 3: And then like say, all the kids have like a

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Speaker 3: science project. Everyone else would have like rubber bands and

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Speaker 3: like some sticks or something, and Pamelin would have to

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Speaker 3: get like a trailer to haul like her daughters up

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Speaker 3: the street because it's so big and perfect. And oh,

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Speaker 3: you guys are this is the way.

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Speaker 1: It is too kind.

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Speaker 2: And you have a book coming out. I do tell

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Speaker 2: us about the kid's book coming up. Thanks, Usually it's

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Speaker 2: a it's a kid's book, but also you go you explain.

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Speaker 1: It, Okay. So the book is called Gratitude the Great

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Speaker 1: and it is a children's picture book, but it's all

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Speaker 1: about gratitude and kind of you know, ways to incorporate

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Speaker 1: daily gratitude rituals, you know, into your lives. And we

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Speaker 1: all know that, like children aren't just going to come

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Speaker 1: up with these things. It's the parents that have to

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Speaker 1: initiate it. And really you know, instill that message like

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Speaker 1: into children early, and it's just so much more than

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Speaker 1: saying like thank you. That's not like the gratitude that

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I'm talking about like gratitude from your

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Speaker 1: soul and like knowing, like you know, feeling actual gratitude,

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Speaker 1: like you know, somebody did something so nice for you.

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Speaker 1: Like let's feel it because it's a feeling, and then

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Speaker 1: let's act on it by you know, writing a note

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Speaker 1: or making sure we you know, say special things to people.

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Speaker 1: But there's all these different rituals that like we do

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Speaker 1: as a family that I also like incorporate into this

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Speaker 1: like very special story. And you know, again it is

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Speaker 1: a kid's book, but it's like so good. Like I

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Speaker 1: said before, you know, the best virtues in the world

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Speaker 1: are not taught, they're caught. So it's like we as

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Speaker 1: parents have to live these lives you know of gratitude

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Speaker 1: and all these other amazing virtues out there and then

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Speaker 1: our kids will just follow. And you know, for me,

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Speaker 1: gratitude I call it like the greatest natural superpower in

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Speaker 1: the world. It is does not discriminate, It is free

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Speaker 1: to the entire universe, and it can change your life,

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Speaker 1: like if you start your foundation as a child living

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Speaker 1: in gratitude it, I mean there's science behind it. You know,

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Speaker 1: it will forever like change the trajectory of your life.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm so passionate about it. It's changed my life.

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Speaker 1: So I wrote a children's book about it and it's

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Speaker 1: coming out May.

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Speaker 2: Fourth, So they should follow you on your Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Yes, House of Bachery and also Gratitude the Great. I

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Speaker 1: now have an Instagram handle for that.

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Speaker 4: Yay.

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Speaker 3: How do you are How do you with with your daughters?

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Speaker 3: Because I feel like, you know, it'll be simple or

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Speaker 3: easier to teach her or show them how to be

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Speaker 3: grateful or or express gratitude when someone does something nice

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Speaker 3: for you right and do something in return out of gratitude.

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Speaker 3: How do you do it where it's more of a

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Speaker 3: because you know, as adults, if you do some work,

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Speaker 3: you're able to have this moments of gratitude where Jane

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Speaker 3: and I will share them. They'll just kind of come

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Speaker 3: right Okay, It's almost like a daydream and say, man,

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Speaker 3: I'm just so grateful for where my life is high

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Speaker 3: on this life right like in that moment. So have

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Speaker 3: you addressed that with your girls? And how do you

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Speaker 3: kind of you know, help push them along to understand

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Speaker 3: that concept of yes.

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Speaker 1: Right, because like when you know little kids, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of the tangible like present things, right.

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Speaker 1: And so one thing we do we call it pillow chat,

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Speaker 1: and it's at night and this is like in the book,

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Speaker 1: but we have this heart crystal and we think that

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Speaker 1: like you know, crystals like you know, send out all

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Speaker 1: this great like energy. And so we each hold the

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Speaker 1: crystal and we talk about like something that we were

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Speaker 1: like grateful for that happened today, or you know, a

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Speaker 1: feeling that we were grateful for today. So it's not

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Speaker 1: about like I got a you know, I got a

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Speaker 1: new lol doll, right, It's nothing like that. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, I always go first to kind of like

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Speaker 1: set the tone, and it's you know, nothing that's tangible.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I'm so grateful for picking those

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Speaker 1: flout beautiful flowers with you on our special mommy and

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Speaker 1: daughter walk today, and then they kind of then go

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Speaker 1: with that same theme. It's like that kid in class

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Speaker 1: who like, you know, what's your favorite thing? The one

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Speaker 1: first kid says, then all the kids say the same thing.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of like set in the tone. So

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Speaker 1: we do that every night. And then what I noticed

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Speaker 1: we've been doing it for years, and what I noticed

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Speaker 1: is then they're able to kind of acknowledge those special

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Speaker 1: moments and feelings. Then like throughout the day, like I

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Speaker 1: mean so many times, you know, me and Harlowe will

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Speaker 1: be driving and she's like, Mommy, these trees are so beautiful,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm so grateful to see them. That's you know

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Speaker 1: that Then it just like I was saying that, it

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Speaker 1: just kind of snowballs and it just becomes your normal life.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, and then when you get older

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Speaker 1: and tough things start to happen, you know, and you're

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Speaker 1: like salty at the world, you know, because something bad happened.

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Speaker 1: You can then hopefully like pull in those tools to

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Speaker 1: find the beauty and things that you know money can't

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Speaker 1: buy or.

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Speaker 3: That's so awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. And Mike and I have kind

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Speaker 2: of similar to that, like we've been saying every morning,

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Speaker 2: like I'm grateful for you, and it kind of just

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Speaker 2: sets the tone of the day so that we're not

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Speaker 2: high on like negative energy or you know, it's just

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Speaker 2: like we're acknowledging each other taking a.

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Speaker 3: Second to yeah, we just wanted to start the day.

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Speaker 3: We just found ourselves like contesting each other early in

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Speaker 3: the day at times like why it's like why can't

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Speaker 3: we just start with like almost like a clean state, right,

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Speaker 3: so even if the night before wasn't great or the

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Speaker 3: day before wasn't great, refreshing that morning being like, look,

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Speaker 3: I'm grateful for you because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: I am, I appreciate you whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: And also like you know, just like the energy of

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Speaker 1: that coming out of your mouth and sending that message

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Speaker 1: to the universe, you know, is going to get like

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Speaker 1: bounced back to you. And so it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: if you're ever thinking something that's nice, say it, say

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Speaker 1: it to anybody.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're so good at that. I feel like Janna,

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Speaker 1: You're always like, you know, you guys are so such

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Speaker 1: nice win the world. But it really, I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: makes a difference, And so I just wanted to do

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Speaker 1: this book to try to like just keep you know,

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Speaker 1: encouraging parents, like this is our job, you know, and

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Speaker 1: we need a reminder all the time.

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Speaker 2: You're right, Well, I love you, Pittsburgh Pam, thanks for

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Speaker 2: coming on. You're also got a big, big Bachelorette Bachelor fan. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so excited to get Zach Clark on. Let's take a

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Speaker 2: break and then we'll get him on.

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Speaker 3: All right, so we have mister Bachelorette winner himself, Zach

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Speaker 3: Clark with us on the show to say, today, Zach,

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Speaker 3: how you doing, man.

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Speaker 4: I'm good, Mike, thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 2: I was really excited about you. First of all, I

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Speaker 2: was a huge fan of you on the show. I've

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Speaker 2: I got to be honest and Pittsburgh Pam knows this.

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Speaker 2: I I never really watched an entire season. I usually

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Speaker 2: watch like the beginning and then I'll maybe watch the end.

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Speaker 2: But Tasha was by far the best Bachelorette ever. I mean,

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Speaker 2: she was just really confident. She was you know, just

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Speaker 2: so true. And I loved watching you because I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: thank you, like someone that has depth and that has

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Speaker 2: a journey and has been through and you know, but

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Speaker 2: you come in with such confidence, and I remember telling

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Speaker 2: my husband, I was like, this is my favorite dude

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Speaker 2: right here. I hope he wins Like he's awesome. I

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Speaker 2: just love your whole journey. And then obviously we talk

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Speaker 2: a lot about addiction on the show, so I'm just

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Speaker 2: excited to get in on all of it right now.

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Speaker 2: But so, yeah, I'm really excited. I guess one of

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Speaker 2: the things that I was kind of curious was because

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Speaker 2: you seemed so confident describing your journey with Taysha, did

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Speaker 2: you because it didn't come off like you were nervous

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Speaker 2: at all. I mean, are you just kind of like,

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Speaker 2: this is my life and this is what I've been

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Speaker 2: through in the addictions, and or were you nervous telling

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Speaker 2: her that, thinking, oh man, she might send me home.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I mean my attitude around that was just

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Speaker 4: like any other date I've been on, right, Like, if

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Speaker 4: she's not going to love me for who I am,

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Speaker 4: then it's better that we we end this thing now,

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Speaker 4: then get into it and come to find out that

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Speaker 4: there's going to be an issue there. So for me, like,

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Speaker 4: I'm really proud of who I am and it's a

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Speaker 4: huge part of me. My recovery obviously, and it allows

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Speaker 4: me to live the badass next level of life that

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Speaker 4: I get to live. So yeah, I was just going

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Speaker 4: to lay it all out there and she obviously. That

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Speaker 4: was one of the things that I was most attracted

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Speaker 4: to in her, is that not only with me, but

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Speaker 4: with all the guys there, she was able to take

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Speaker 4: on a lot of you know, pold space for us,

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Speaker 4: and I think you saw there were some guys there

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Speaker 4: who've been through some stuff. So I definitely noticed that

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Speaker 4: early on with her.

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Speaker 3: Was that when you when you talked about the addiction

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Speaker 3: in your past and everything, you know, whether on screen

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Speaker 3: or off, did she show a lot of understanding Because

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Speaker 3: there's some people that don't really understand the concept unless

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Speaker 3: they're directly affected by addiction or they just have never

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Speaker 3: experienced any kind of it. So was she understanding of

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Speaker 3: the whole concept of what it means and all that?

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Speaker 4: She was definitely open minded to it. You know, it's funny, Mike,

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Speaker 4: I think my experience in life has told me usually

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Speaker 4: you tell someone you're a drug addict or an alcoholic

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Speaker 4: or whatever it is, and it goes one of two ways.

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Speaker 4: It's like, you know, they know that there's a family

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Speaker 4: member or someone that they've been associated with in their

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Speaker 4: lives that have struggled with it, and so they have,

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Speaker 4: you know, some knowledge or education around the topic, or

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Speaker 4: they know nothing about it and they want to throw

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Speaker 4: you in this bucket of like this dude is weird

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Speaker 4: or sick or whatever it is. And it's funny. She

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Speaker 4: was kind of in the middle, like she didn't have

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Speaker 4: any direct I think, experience with it, but she definitely

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Speaker 4: had an open mind and she asked her all the

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Speaker 4: right questions and some of the things you hear earlier.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, can I drink and then kiss you? I'm like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's yeah.

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Speaker 3: That she was conscious of even that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, she's a sweetheart.

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Speaker 2: How was it when you did the hometown dates because

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Speaker 2: I don't remember. I don't Maybe you guys did talk

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Speaker 2: about it, but I don't remember being aired. Was that

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Speaker 2: something that you talked about with her dad.

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Speaker 4: Or so I'm trying to think how that played. First

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Speaker 4: of all the hometowns, you know, I caught a lot

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Speaker 4: of because I did mine in New York City quote unquote,

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Speaker 4: and I'm from Philly, so Philly was not happy.

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Speaker 1: I read that not messing with Philly.

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Speaker 4: It's all right, it's a long life. I'll make it

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Speaker 4: up to him. No, I think her dad. Yes, I

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Speaker 4: got into what I do for work with her old man,

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Speaker 4: and I think that spoke to my just general experience

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Speaker 4: in life. It's kind of like, Okay, I run these

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Speaker 4: programs and do interventions and help people get sober. Okay,

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Speaker 4: how did you get involved in that? Then that always

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Speaker 4: leads into I don't really have much to hide behind

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Speaker 4: because it's not like I'm sober and I work in finance.

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Speaker 4: I'm sober and I work in the feet. It's like

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Speaker 4: it kind of hits you right in the face. So

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Speaker 4: we got into it, and you know, he was super

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Speaker 4: open minded to it all, which I appreciated.

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Speaker 3: Was you know, in release recovery, which is which is

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Speaker 3: the you know what you founded with your buddy justin.

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Speaker 3: Is it twelve step based or is there a lot

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Speaker 3: of other elements to it.

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Speaker 4: Look, we're big believers in twelve step. You know, we've

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Speaker 4: seen we've seen the twelve steps obviously change a lot

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Speaker 4: of lives. And it's crazy to think that like, you know,

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Speaker 4: the stockbroker and this doctor back in the nineteen thirties,

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Speaker 4: like got together and wrote the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous,

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Speaker 4: and that's still like getting a ton of people sober today.

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Speaker 4: But I will say that, you know, in our programs

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Speaker 4: there are guys and girls that come in that are

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Speaker 4: super resistant to twelve Step and it's our job to

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Speaker 4: kind of, you know, just be shurpas and tell them that,

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Speaker 4: like that's okay, you know, and there's other programs, there's

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Speaker 4: other ways to get connected. But it's not just because

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Speaker 4: you're not into twelve step recovery does not mean you

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Speaker 4: have an excuse to not get connected to other human beings.

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Speaker 4: You know, like we're not going to let that be

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Speaker 4: a front. And we're very clear on that that that

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Speaker 4: you know, from from from the outset.

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Speaker 3: Have you have you had people come through that have

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Speaker 3: suffered from sex and love addiction?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, man, Like we always we always talk

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Speaker 4: about right like seven it's kind of like seven trash

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Speaker 4: cans five with I mean a lot of times when

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Speaker 4: when we see people get sober, that's when a sex

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Speaker 4: edition flares up or eat sorder flares up. And you know,

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Speaker 4: I never personally had the sex thing. I know a

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Speaker 4: lot of people who have, and it's real, Mike, I

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Speaker 4: read a little bit about you. Man, congrats on some

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Speaker 4: of the stuff you're doing. It's inspiring for sure, and

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Speaker 4: for a man to come out and be open with

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Speaker 4: that stuff, it's cool. You know, Like I need guys

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Speaker 4: like you in my corner, So no question right.

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Speaker 3: Back at you.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious though about because I always like feel for

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Speaker 2: Mike because if someone says, yeah, I'm an alcoholic or

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Speaker 2: I'm you know, I'm in I was a drug addict,

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Speaker 2: they're like, oh man, I'm so sorry. But when Mike

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Speaker 2: says he's a sex addict, people are like, oh, like,

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Speaker 2: it's it's.

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Speaker 3: Like this there's still a stigma around it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, where it's they either don't believe it or they

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Speaker 2: think it's an excuse or I mean, how are I guess,

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Speaker 2: like with your recovery and addiction program you're doing, it's like,

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Speaker 2: how how are you helping not like normalize this addiction,

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Speaker 2: but also to make the person not feel so shameful

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Speaker 2: and with any of their addictions.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a big deal for me, and I think

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Speaker 4: it's one of the things that as my career my

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Speaker 4: life continues to evolve, that word stigma. I don't even

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Speaker 4: know how I feel about it right, Like, sometimes I

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Speaker 4: feel like when I use that word, it stigmatizes it

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Speaker 4: more almost, you know, because of just like the sound,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, something weird with that word. It's like

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Speaker 4: I feel like we're actually doing ourselves at disservice. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think for me, that just comes back to sharing

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Speaker 4: my experience with people, like really being able to sit

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Speaker 4: them down and you know, aside from getting engagitation having

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Speaker 4: this beautiful love story unfold, like, one of the beautiful

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Speaker 4: things that's come of the show is just this ability

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Speaker 4: to say to people who are in early recovery, like, look,

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Speaker 4: literally anything is possible if you just fasten your seatbelt

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Speaker 4: and do some of these things and have a willingness

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Speaker 4: to be honest and share with people. And I think

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Speaker 4: it's one of the biggest hurdles that we face in

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Speaker 4: early recovery. It's just that guilt, that shame. How do

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Speaker 4: I date? How do I go out and have a drink?

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Speaker 4: You know, certainly with the sex addiction thing, and guys

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Speaker 4: that I know who have struggled with that, yeah, there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of guilt and shame around that, and then

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Speaker 4: for their partner, you know, sticking it out with them

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Speaker 4: and all that that comes with it and having kid.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's messy and it's gnarly, but there's hope

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Speaker 4: for sure.

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Speaker 3: With you being in recovery for the past even so

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Speaker 3: ever since what twenty.

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Speaker 4: Eleven, Yeah, August twenty eleven.

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Speaker 3: So for the last you know, going on ten years

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Speaker 3: and this being your your career too, do you find

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Speaker 3: it difficult to not, like, say, put yourself on the

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Speaker 3: show for instance, where you have all these guys who

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Speaker 3: are drinking, are doing these things where you like try

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Speaker 3: not to be judgmental, be like, man, that guy probably

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Speaker 3: needs to come to my program, or like how do

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Speaker 3: you kind of compartmentalize or separate that so you don't

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Speaker 3: have this like judgmental mindset in certain moments like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've had to really learn to, you know, keep

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Speaker 4: to myself on some of that stuff and just be

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Speaker 4: be there when people need me, you know. And I

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Speaker 4: think some of my best work has been done by

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Speaker 4: me saying nothing at all and just having people watch

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Speaker 4: the way that I live. And I've had more people

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Speaker 4: come back to me and say, it wasn't what you

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Speaker 4: what you said, It's more of what I saw, you know,

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Speaker 4: that was attractive to the way you were living your life. Typically,

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Speaker 4: when I call someone out on their sir have an opinion,

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Speaker 4: it doesn't go well, you know, it just doesn't because

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Speaker 4: they're not ready to hear it.

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Speaker 3: No, aleks don't like to be called out. Come on.

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Speaker 1: I can see that some of the greatest virtues are

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Speaker 1: you know, caught, not taught. It's like, you know, by

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Speaker 1: showing is probably better than calling out, for sure. I

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Speaker 1: love that.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious, like you know, because Tasha isn't doesn't know

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Speaker 2: this world as much. Obviously you're helping her. Is there

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Speaker 2: resources that you know, do you do you think she

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Speaker 2: should go to or have you encouraged her to go

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Speaker 2: to like an alan On or any of those places

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Speaker 2: so that she can understand or learn more about, you know,

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Speaker 2: just behaviors and things like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, it's uh, it's it's super cool. I mean, like, yes,

397
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,440
Speaker 4: obviously there's great resources out there with with with anan

398
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 4: on and on and just family support groups and a

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Speaker 4: lot of treatment programs, have you know, uh, parents support

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Speaker 4: groups and that type of thing, or partner support groups.

401
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Speaker 4: So those things are all things that we've started to discuss,

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00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,160
Speaker 4: and I think we'll get into a little bit more

403
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Speaker 4: obviously exposing herself to to my personal recovery and what

404
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 4: that looks like. And then you know, as she gets

405
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 4: to know some of my friends, you know, like going

406
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Speaker 4: on a trip with a couple of my buddies who

407
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 4: are sober and like their wives, their partners are not

408
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 4: like being able to connect with them on that level,

409
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,200
Speaker 4: to show that like one, you know, we have a

410
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 4: load of fun stille and we're not like my blankets.

411
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Speaker 4: And two that she's not alone right, like that there's

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Speaker 4: other people out there, Like we always joke every wedding

413
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Speaker 4: I go to, I'm the last man standing. All the

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Speaker 4: other people are blacked out.

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Speaker 2: I love that. What's the hardest part of sobriety for you? Like,

416
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Speaker 2: what's the biggest challenge with staying sober?

417
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Speaker 4: I get that question a lot, and I mean it

418
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Speaker 4: might sound untrue, but the hardest part of sobriety was

419
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 4: living the way I used to live. You know, like this,

420
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Speaker 4: this this thing is not hard to do on a

421
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 4: daily basis, Like the obsession to drinking drug for me

422
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 4: has has has like lifted you know, I don't I

423
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Speaker 4: don't think about that stuff. I guess if I had

424
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 4: to say one thing, like I feel a lot, you know,

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00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 4: I feel a lot. It's just like I feel other

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Speaker 4: people that feel my and uh, you know, like I'm

427
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 4: a I'm a I'm a guy that lives my life.

428
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Speaker 4: Like I always feel like I'm missing out on something,

429
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Speaker 4: like I'm a hard charger. But even if I had

430
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 4: like some crazy ass day, like I'll think about like

431
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 4: the one shot I missed, you know, and that's just

432
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Speaker 4: me wanting to be perfect and having a little compassion

433
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Speaker 4: for myself.

434
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 1: So and were you like that at all before the addictions?

435
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 1: Like did you have cause you seem like you have

436
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: this like amazing zest for life and just like you know,

437
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 1: full of joy and this light were you were there

438
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 1: pieces of you like that before and then you kind

439
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: of just found them again? Or what's that about?

440
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 4: Hell? Yeah, I mean I had a lot of fun

441
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 4: with me. Like in high school, I was like, you know,

442
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 4: my superlative was life of the party.

443
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: You know, and like I figured, yeah.

444
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 4: You know, and so it was fun for a while.

445
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 4: It was fun for a long time. And I still

446
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 4: to this day at people in my life that I'll say, dude,

447
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 4: like you didn't have an issue. I was like, bro,

448
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 4: you were not out on the street with me doing

449
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 4: what I was doing, Like I definitely let's just stop

450
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 4: it right there. So yeah, I think there's but there's

451
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 4: also I think the other things, like when I did

452
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 4: get sober and I did start to, you know, live

453
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 4: a different way, it was hard for some of those

454
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 4: people in my life, Like there were pieces of me

455
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 4: that definitely died, you know, and like in some areas

456
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 4: I was a little bit more serious and a little

457
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 4: bit more reserved, and some of my closest friends and

458
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 4: family had to say, like, are you okay? Are you good?

459
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 4: Everything right? I'm like, yeah, I'm cool, Like I'm just

460
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 4: not faced, you know.

461
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 3: Like so uh, Zach, when was because I feel like,

462
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 3: you know, we can relate in a way in a

463
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 3: lot of ways. But also, you know, obviously there's a

464
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 3: lot of spotlight on you right now and with the

465
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 3: addiction and with your past and and your journey. You know,

466
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 3: I've I've had issues with the spotlight on me as

467
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 3: well around my addictions and everything. And I'm trying to

468
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 3: be a pillar of support for other men out there

469
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 3: who struggle with addiction, let alone sex addiction. And but

470
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 3: I find myself because you know, I've been in the

471
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 3: program four years year sobriety, but I find myself still

472
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 3: doubting my own you know, not my own recovery strengthen things,

473
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 3: but just doubting myself where it's like, why would someone

474
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 3: want to like hear from me, Like why would someone

475
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 3: want to you know, learn from me? Because I make

476
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,959
Speaker 3: up when you have ten years, it's a lot easier.

477
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 3: So I guess my question is, at what point during

478
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 3: your recovery did you start to see like really let

479
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 3: go of that shame and feel confident in helping more

480
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 3: people see, you know, be recovered.

481
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 4: I think the old saying is like at five years

482
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 4: you get your marbles back, so not to but definitely

483
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 4: that first year, like my brain just needed to heal,

484
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 4: Like I just needed to like take a time out.

485
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 4: And then I think after that, like I really started

486
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 4: to find my footing with some of my language. And

487
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 4: you know, I'm a people pleaser by nature, so you know,

488
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 4: I learned how to say no, you know, and that

489
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 4: was huge for me. And I really just leaned into

490
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 4: the fact that like, yeah, you know, there's a lot

491
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 4: of smart ass people out there with Ivy League degrees

492
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 4: and whatever else. It is but like, my greatest experience

493
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 4: or my greatest asset is my experience and just leaning

494
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 4: into that and like you know if you don't, I mean,

495
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 4: you know how it is, Mike, Like, I had to

496
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 4: learn how to be honest. I had to learn how

497
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 4: to like truly be honest and not care what the

498
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 4: other person said and then actually like say things that

499
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 4: I used to be in so much fear about and

500
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 4: have the person across the table act like, oh, that's cool.

501
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 4: I'm like, wait, you're not gonna like I'm not in trouble.

502
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 4: I didn't do something wrong here.

503
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,719
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, story of my life right there.

504
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: I mean that right there what you just said, because

505
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 2: that's you. You were always afraid that you were going

506
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: to get in trouble. It's like, no, just be honest.

507
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 2: You know, for anyone that's listening that is having a

508
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 2: hard time, what are what are some of the first

509
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: steps to to you know, to just be more honest,

510
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: and where can they find help? Like what are some

511
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: great resources and talk about you know, what you're doing

512
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 2: at release recovery.

513
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 4: I appreciate that question. I mean, you know, the hardest

514
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 4: thing is asking for help for me, Like that's like

515
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 4: that's that's the biggest thing. And there's nothing more heartbreaking

516
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 4: than like when we get a call and we go

517
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 4: in and we start to consult with the family and

518
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 4: you know, we're going to plan this family meeting where

519
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 4: we're gonna i mean, I hate the word intervention, but

520
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 4: essentially intervene, you know, and seeing that person on day zero,

521
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 4: you know, and the family being a mess and all

522
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 4: that stuff, you know, and still having that person like

523
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 4: the identified patient, if you will say no is heartbreaking

524
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 4: it but it's what keeps me coming back because I've

525
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 4: seen that person, like I've been to that guy's wedding,

526
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 4: you know, and that's like, that's the true gift in

527
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 4: all this, right, and it takes time and patience because

528
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 4: recovery is not an overnight matter. But yeah, asking for help,

529
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, here at Release Recovery, like we've

530
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 4: built we've built a family in a community that's just

531
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 4: the doors are always open and the phone is always opened.

532
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 4: So certainly, you know, Release Recovery dot com. You can

533
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 4: check us out if you call our main line, like

534
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 4: we're gonna get you pointed in the right direction. Absolutely.

535
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 4: We started a non for profit early last year and

536
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 4: Release Recovery Foundation, where we're scholarshiping people who can't afford

537
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 4: it to to go get some help. I've you know,

538
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 4: for many years, worked in this world where it's a

539
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 4: lot of private pay people who can quite frankly afford

540
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 4: our services, and I just we just saw huge need

541
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 4: in the market to help those that couldn't afford it.

542
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 4: So I got my shirt on. Today we're going to

543
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 4: be launching our twenty twenty one fundraiser, and all the

544
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 4: proceeds from this guy is going to go towards women

545
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 4: and people of color getting getting treatment because those are

546
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 4: two communities that are really underserved in our world and

547
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 4: borderline disrespected, you know. Like I was in treatment with

548
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 4: a bunch of white males and the team that treated

549
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 4: me was all, you know, white, you know, or whatever

550
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 4: it was. And so we're passionate about about the work.

551
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,959
Speaker 4: And then and then obviously, like you know, there's Google it.

552
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 4: You know, there's plenty of phone numbers out there to call,

553
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 4: and there's twelve step communities and smart recovery and refuge

554
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 4: recovery and a lot of things that you can do

555
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 4: that are that are free. So asking for help, once

556
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 4: you do that sky's the limit.

557
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: So is release recovery? Is it impatient or outpatient? Are both?

558
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 4: I think the best way to We're a full service

559
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 4: recovery companies. We have a seventeen bed program for men

560
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 4: north of New York City before five minutes in Westchester County,

561
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 4: and then we have two programs in the city, one

562
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 4: for men and one for women, so forty beds and

563
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 4: that's uh. It's all transitional living. So people that are

564
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 4: coming out of treatment okay and struggling with drug addiction

565
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 4: or some mental illness stuff, we help get them back

566
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 4: up on their feet. They stay with us about three

567
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 4: six months and then you know some of the other

568
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 4: work we do with case management and some of the

569
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 4: intervention consultation stuff I was talking about. So we do

570
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 4: a lot. We've seen it all sinarly going on, you know.

571
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: And you did you went to impatient rehab.

572
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did four and a half months at a

573
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 4: place out in Pennsylvania, Okay.

574
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 3: You know, I've It's always been a topic for me

575
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: that I'm always interested in because I commend and respect

576
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 3: guys that have gotten sober without doing impatient treatment. I

577
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 3: just know for me personally, I never would have been

578
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 3: able to if it didn't spend the sixty days I

579
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: did impatient. But you know, is that something for you?

580
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 3: I mean not to say you doubt people that don't

581
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: do so something like that, but is it something where

582
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 3: you're just like if you're talking to somebody off the

583
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 3: street and you're like, hey, you got to get into something.

584
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: It's not just going to meetings. It's not just doing that.

585
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: There's God, you have to kick for me again, I

586
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: have to kick start that. You got to find out

587
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 3: where all this comes from. In my personal opinion, but

588
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: I just want to know your take on it.

589
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 4: Being in the business, yeah, I mean, I'm a product

590
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 4: of treatment right like that. I'm never going to tell

591
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 4: any like, if you can go to treatment, go you know,

592
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 4: who doesn't want to take a month, two months, three

593
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 4: months to really work on themselves? And I went twice.

594
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 4: The first time I went for a month, I was

595
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 4: married at the time. And the best thing to come

596
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 4: out of that was my wife learned what a boundary was,

597
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 4: and the next time I got high, she kicked my

598
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 4: ass out, you know. And for the next eight months

599
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 4: I was ripping and running and whatever happened happened. And

600
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 4: then I you know, I ended up backing treatment for

601
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 4: four and a half months, and that was what I

602
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 4: needed to do, and I'm very grateful for that experience.

603
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 4: So if you can do to treatment and do.

604
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: Treatment, I gotta well, first of all, I mean, I

605
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: love everything this conversation. I was just thinking when you

606
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,479
Speaker 2: said your ex wife, because I'm one of the reasons

607
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: why I didn't leave Mike was I was like, I

608
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: don't want someone else to get the version that like

609
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: I deserve, that I worked for that I have, Like

610
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: that I thought I was going to get like I'm

611
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: not going to get duped, you know what I mean,

612
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: Like I'm not going to go through this pain and

613
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: then have somebody else get you like nuhuh, like and

614
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: you haven't made it easy the last five years, you no,

615
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, so it's like I can only imagine,

616
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: you know. I'm sure she's so happy for you, you know,

617
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: But as as the other side, I'd have been like,

618
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: damn it, like now you're amazing, so happy and you.

619
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 4: Know, she's cool. She saved my life. I hope she

620
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 4: knows that, you know. And like I always say, like, Mike,

621
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,479
Speaker 4: nice job. But the true heroes and all this are

622
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 4: the family members, like the people that stand by us, because.

623
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 3: Like there's no question you can.

624
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 4: Talk, we can talk offline, but it's you know, we

625
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 4: it's yeah, you guys are the heroes and and that's

626
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 4: you know, I was saying yesterday, I was talking to

627
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 4: a friend and like we get to go away. Mike

628
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 4: was just saying, like treatment, like and the focus for

629
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 4: us for however long we're there is just on us.

630
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 4: And you guys are still out in the real world

631
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 4: with kids and know other family members, jobs, and you

632
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 4: don't have in terms of education and resources and tools.

633
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 4: So we're the lucky ones.

634
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, dang, I agree with that. That's sweet, Like I

635
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: really needed that validation after all those years you're doing

636
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: a good Pittsburgh PAM, which you got, Zach.

637
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: Do you think that, like, you know, because of your

638
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: recovery that it really kind of prepared you almost like

639
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: for the show because I noticed that you were just

640
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: always so like chill with the process and it didn't

641
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: seem to be like any of it affected you. When

642
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: I there's a lot of guys that come in and

643
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: just too much stuff gets in their head and then

644
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: they end up like sabotaging themselves. And their whole experience.

645
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: But I just like did not notice any of that

646
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: with you.

647
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 4: No. I mean I think my life prepared me for

648
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 4: that moment honestly, and not just the recovery piece. But

649
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 4: I come from a really good family. And you know,

650
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 4: I was joking because it's like, you know, rehab right

651
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 4: like this season and I don't know anything about the

652
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: bat Like this whole thing was all new to me.

653
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 4: But apparently there's a lot of travel and other stuff

654
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 4: in other seasons, but we were in this bubble, which

655
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 4: for me was like treatment again. Kick your phone. I'm like, sweet,

656
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 4: I'm back in rehab, like failure, cute girl, and talk

657
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 4: about your feelings in this camera like I can do that.

658
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: You were made for it. I know that. Like gratitude

659
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: and like Tasha has talked about you, just being such

660
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: like a thankful man has been like really important and

661
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: you know one of the reasons that like she fell

662
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: in love with you. Do you do any like specific

663
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: type of like gratitude practices or is it just something

664
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: that you just like you know, exude from your body

665
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: like on a daily basis or is it more of

666
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: like a ritual of something that you do?

667
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, I appreciate. I mean, look, I try to

668
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 4: live in gratitude obviously, that's that's like one of the

669
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 4: my core beliefs. We have to be grateful. And I

670
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 4: just I mean, I have my daily routine that on

671
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 4: my good days, like I'm up early in the morning,

672
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 4: I'm meditating, I'm getting centered, I'm doing the things that

673
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 4: I need to do in order to you know, walk

674
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 4: out into the world and be a be a human.

675
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 4: And for me, like you know, whether you're believing like God,

676
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 4: for me is like an actors a verb. It's an

677
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 4: auction word, you know, like you I'm able to show

678
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 4: that in my daily life. And certainly I've done gratitude list,

679
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 4: and I believe in the power of like pen to

680
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 4: paper and writing and that kind of thing. So yeah,

681
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 4: I don't know, that's all I got there.

682
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 2: I have a question about because I know, like living

683
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: with an addict in Mike always says he's like, I

684
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: can't I can't say I'll never do this again. And

685
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 2: he's like, that's right, is that's kind of like you

686
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: said like in program, like you can't say you'll like

687
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: you're gonna live like you'll never do to like you

688
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 2: want you how do you say it?

689
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 3: So I don't know, it's there's just no Unfortunately, being

690
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 3: an addict, you lose the privilege of using the word

691
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 3: never or claiming that you'll never do something again.

692
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 2: So because of that, you know, sometimes I have that

693
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: fear because there have been a few relapses and you know,

694
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: and he kind of knows like where I'm at, Like

695
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 2: there's only so much personally that I think the other person, Yeah,

696
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: it's gone through, it can go through where it's just

697
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 2: like I got I have nothing left right Like there's

698
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: so I'm curious, like have you had those conversations with

699
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: Taysha about you know, like is she fearful of a relapse?

700
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 2: Because that's that's my biggest fear is like, Okay, we've

701
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 2: putting all this work and I'm like I'm fearful for

702
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: them if there's a next one because I can't. I

703
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 2: can't do it anymore. I can't handle it anymore. So

704
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 2: it's like I have everything out there, our life, our work,

705
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: everything we do together, and it's like and it's like, well,

706
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: I pray to he shows up, but it's it's hard.

707
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: So it's like I don't has that been something that

708
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: you know, y'all have talked about with the fears that

709
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: potentially come up around that, or you just I mean

710
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: because you are ten, you know, ten years strong in it,

711
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: that you don't have really that fear or she doesn't, No, I.

712
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,399
Speaker 4: Mean that's it's a real thing. I mean, I've heard

713
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 4: about guys with twenty five years going back out right

714
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 4: like and for whatever reason, and life comes at you

715
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,479
Speaker 4: fast like I don't. That's part of I think having

716
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 4: a partner in life, you're going to go through trials

717
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 4: and tribulations together. I mean I have explained to her,

718
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 4: and no offense to her or to you or anyone

719
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 4: else who dates someone like myself, like is that our

720
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 4: RecA Like for me, I'll speak to myself like, my

721
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 4: recovery must come first, right and it has to no

722
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 4: matter what, and everything else kind of stems off of that.

723
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 4: And when I'm living that way, I got a pretty

724
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 4: good shot to stay in this thing. But we've had

725
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 4: conversations about that and what that looks like, and you know,

726
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 4: I think she understands that if something was to happen

727
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 4: down the line, like we would have to really have

728
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 4: a conversation and see what that looks like and there's

729
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 4: different degrees to a relapse, like did I go out

730
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 4: on a tough day and get hammered because I was

731
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 4: feeling sorry for myself or that I you know, end

732
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 4: up you know with a needle in my own you know,

733
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 4: like and everything in between.

734
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: So setting that's yeah, that's kind of like, you know,

735
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: we have certain the boundaries in the circles and circle

736
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 2: of recovery.

737
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, and what I've told Jane, I was like,

738
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 3: at least for me, you'll see the writing on the

739
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 3: wall before it gets to that point, before it gets

740
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 3: to that, you know, blow up inner circle, step outside

741
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 3: the marriage again, Like there's it's going to be a

742
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 3: transitional thing for me. It's not yet, no, you hope not.

743
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 3: But just the way I am with my emotions now

744
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 3: and you being able to read me like a book

745
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 3: and asking me what's wrong or are you okay? Before

746
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 3: I even have of the intelligence to express it, like

747
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 3: you read me like a book. There's one question. I

748
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 3: remember the question I was gonna ask earlier, Zach before

749
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: we let you go, And it was about family and

750
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: you're talking about you know, you have a great family

751
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: and all that stuff, and you're commending that it is

752
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 3: the your significant others. It is the people around you.

753
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 3: Those are the real heroes. And you know, guys like

754
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 3: our people like us in our lives that have been

755
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 3: able to find recovery. I know that my parents went

756
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 3: through and maybe you still at times go through periods

757
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 3: of guilt and shame where they they almost want to

758
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 3: blame themselves. And I've said this numerous times on this

759
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: show and in other interviews, where I'm like, what I

760
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 3: explained to my parents is like you could take sales

761
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 3: a twin and we had the same life experience, It

762
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 3: went through the same things, the same memories or whatever.

763
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 3: He or she could turn out completely different than I did.

764
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 3: He or she could have when in a different direction,

765
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 3: could have handled feelings a different way, regardless of you know,

766
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: us being raised the exact same way. So have your

767
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 3: parents Did your parents ever express that to you, like,

768
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 3: did they feel responsible in a way and how did

769
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 3: you kind of you know, mend that.

770
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 4: There's a couple of things. Through my work, I've I've

771
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 4: really become grateful for my family because I think in

772
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 4: the grand scheme of things and looking at all the

773
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 4: families I've worked with, my family's actually pretty healthy. You know,

774
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 4: and like, there's a lot of families out there that

775
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 4: that struggle. And one of the things I try to

776
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 4: tell not just my family, but the families that we

777
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 4: work with, is this whole it sucks, Like this whole

778
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 4: recovery thing sucks and treatment things sucks because there's just

779
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 4: no playbook. Like you got someone with cancer, you got

780
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 4: someone with diabetes, you got someone like here you go,

781
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 4: this is what you got to do. And you do

782
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 4: these things and you support them and you love them

783
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 4: and you bake them cakes and hopefully they you know,

784
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 4: get well. But with this thing, it's like, you know,

785
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 4: parents can can do everything right and still you know,

786
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 4: being going to their kids funeral, and that's just the

787
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 4: reality of of this world we live in. So for me,

788
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 4: it's just important to let my parents know that I

789
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 4: love them and that I'm grateful for them. One of

790
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 4: my favorite parts of the entire season, if you will,

791
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 4: which I don't even like to think of it like

792
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 4: that because it was real life for me, was the

793
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 4: opportunity to sit there and just tell my mother, you know,

794
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 4: like what she has meant to me because she will

795
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 4: be there when when she is going wrong, but she'll

796
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 4: never take credit when things are going right, you know,

797
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 4: and like so trying to let her know how much

798
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 4: she's meant to me in my journey. But yeah, parents

799
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 4: always feel guilty and it's it's one of the hardest

800
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 4: things to live through because at the end of the day, Mike, like,

801
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 4: I know you're not a bad guy. I know I'm

802
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 4: not a bad guy, but like, we do things that

803
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 4: make us look like bad people.

804
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 3: So oh yeah, anything else.

805
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 2: You're just such a good dude. Thank you for sharing

806
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: your story and your journey, and I just, yeah, I

807
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: appreciate you. And you know, I look at you and

808
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 2: Mike and I think you guys are you guys are

809
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 2: so incredibly strong and brave to be sharing your story

810
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 2: and putting it out there and just know how many

811
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 2: people you're helping.

812
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 4: So you guys, at we live in Nashville.

813
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: Where do you live?

814
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm in New York in the city. But the

815
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 4: things open up, I hope to cross paths, you know, will.

816
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: That would be awesome, Yeah, that would be great. Where

817
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: can our listeners find you, Zach?

818
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 4: I think my Instagram handle is z A C. W. Clark. Yeah,

819
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 4: and uh, release recoveries, release like let go release recovery

820
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 4: dot com and then our nonprofits Release Recovery Foundation dot

821
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 4: org call the mainline, hit us up. My email is

822
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 4: Zach at Release Recovery dot com. I respond to emails

823
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 4: like if it's an email purpose not if you're just

824
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 4: saying hi and you saw me on the show.

825
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 2: Do you know how many emails you're going to get? Now?

826
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 4: All right, it's all good, it's all good. We're handling them.

827
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 4: Your Instagram is z W Clark. Oh, there you go,

828
00:40:58,440 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 4: maybe my maybe my Twitter.

829
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 3: You are so funny, and that's how I know you're

830
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 3: my kind of guy right there, because.

831
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: Mike doesn't have social media, so I only make him

832
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: do social media once a week on mine, Mike mondays

833
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 2: and then I'm like, give me a day off. So yeah,

834
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 2: but thank you so much, z. I appreciate it and

835
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 2: hope to see you in either New York or Nashville.

836
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 2: Al Right, guys, Oh he was so sweet, gosh, like

837
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 2: just I mean, I knew he was going to be

838
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: like that.

839
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: You know, he's just like to say that. That's how

840
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 1: you know somebody is so cool is when they're like

841
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: the same person no matter what, you know.

842
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's just like who he He's so confident, Yes.

843
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 3: Very confident, very comfortable and you and it just naturally

844
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 3: uses out of him. You just you can experience it

845
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 3: even through a computer screen.

846
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 2: I feel like you guys would be really good friends.

847
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: We'd be bro my.

848
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: God and unentation would totally.

849
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: Oh love each other. And then like, because you know

850
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Cam, you know, like you can come over to

851
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: so much fun. Let's take a break and then let's

852
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 2: go to some emails, Mark, what do you got for us?

853
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 3: Okay, this is.

854
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 5: A heavy one. This is from anonymous. I emailed a

855
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 5: couple of years ago and told you about discovering my

856
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 5: husband's sex addiction. Ever since then, we went to counseling

857
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 5: and he even connected with Mike. At the beginning, things

858
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 5: had been better. But about a year ago he stopped

859
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 5: counseling and we've had some rocky times, but it seemed

860
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 5: to still be on the path to trust being regained.

861
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 5: Fast forward to recently. We bought our first home. Now

862
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 5: we have a two and a half year old and

863
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 5: I'm eight months pregnant. Two days ago, I received the

864
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 5: message I had been hoping to never see. He was

865
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 5: a woman telling me with proof of screenshots that she's

866
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 5: been seeing my husband for a few months and apologizing

867
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 5: for not knowing he was married. I'm at a complete loss.

868
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 5: You're with our second child in three weeks. I don't

869
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 5: have a beautiful home that I don't know how to

870
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 5: care for or live in on my own. What the

871
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 5: hell do I do? I stopped setting expectations long ago

872
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 5: and knew this was a possibility, but I am still

873
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 5: in shock. I know it wasn't done to intentionally hurt me,

874
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 5: but obviously I'm heartbroken. Looking for any advice you have

875
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 5: to offer. I'm pretty certain I can't stay in this

876
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 5: marriage as he didn't follow through with the things.

877
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 4: I had asked.

878
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: My heart breaks for you because it is the worst

879
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 2: when you feel betrayed again and to see that come

880
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 2: up and I can't even imagine being pregnant almost do

881
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: like I like that just broke my heart. Do you

882
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 2: remember talking to him, and I know you've talked to

883
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 2: a few dudes.

884
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would have to look back.

885
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 2: I mean it sounds like he maybe didn't do the

886
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 2: like kind of like what you and Zach talked about,

887
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: like he made he didn't do the treatment, you know,

888
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 2: because like you kind of said, counseling. Sometimes you need

889
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: the bigger, the bigger push to.

890
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 3: To you got to it's like you have to get

891
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 3: out of reality to start experiencing reality, almost like you

892
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 3: have to you have to get out of the world

893
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 3: and just going to this place of just constant spiritual

894
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 3: and introspection to figure out this stuff.

895
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 2: Can I play Devil's Advocate though, just for a second, Yeah,

896
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: because if I was her, I would say, well, I mean,

897
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 2: you went to treatment. You almost had someone show up

898
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: at the hotel room a year almost a year and

899
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 2: a half, two years later, so then clearly treatment didn't work.

900
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: Well that does that make you sue I'm trying to like,

901
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: so it's.

902
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 3: Like, what, yeah, well, you're making it black and white,

903
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 3: which I understand, but it unfortunately it's not. It's not.

904
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 3: There's not you know, just like Zach was saying on

905
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: the thing, it's like, there's not a playbook for this.

906
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 3: Like it's not like, all right, if you go to

907
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 3: impatient treatment, then you're good, you know what I mean.

908
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: It's it's something you live with for the rest of

909
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 3: your life. It's a disease you live with for the

910
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 3: rest of your life. So you know, but that's part

911
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 3: of the thing too. That was my biggest knock on

912
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 3: the treatment I went to was they don't. All you

913
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 3: do is talk about yourself and figure out your own

914
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 3: and then you step out into the world and you

915
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 3: get and you get your teeth kicked in by reality.

916
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 2: Wait, can we just talk about that for just one

917
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: second before we get back to this email, because I'll

918
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 2: never forget the phone call that you made to me

919
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: when you got out of rehab and I quote, Hey,

920
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 2: where are you at? I need my computer? And I

921
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 2: was like what, I'm sorry, excuse me, and you go,

922
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 2: I need my computer. It's mine, Jane. I have a

923
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 2: right to have my stuff. And I'm like, well, not

924
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: the pretty much, and you you're like no, and you go.

925
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 2: I was like, well, we need to download things, and

926
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: you're like, I have, And then you started to go

927
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 2: like I have my rights I have.

928
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, you.

929
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: Don't know, because I'm like, I'm like broken over here.

930
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 3: Because they teach you about boundaries, but again they don't.

931
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: They only talk about they talk about your own self

932
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 3: care and not the people that you've destroyed. And so

933
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 3: I come out like, listen here, lady, I got boundaries.

934
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: I've got boundaries, and Jane's like, go your boundaries. It's

935
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: like no, no, no, no, I get a few em.

936
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 3: So those, yeah, there's that, there's that learning curve to

937
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 3: to come back into reality after you're in the safety

938
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 3: pink cloud bubble of you know, impatient rehab.

939
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 2: But okay, but back to this girl though, right, I mean,

940
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 2: obviously she wanted to work on the Obviously she was

941
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 2: willing to stay in the beginning. And I totally understand

942
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 2: when you said, I don't know if I could stay

943
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: in this marriage now. And that's the same thing that

944
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 2: I kind of felt when you know, when we you know,

945
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: when that relapse happened and I found out I was

946
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 2: pregnant with Jace. Like, I totally get that feeling. Having

947
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 2: said that, if you're not out now, I don't feel

948
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 2: like you're gonna get out because you still are holding

949
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: hope that maybe he can change, which is why I

950
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 2: kind of always stayed too, because you're like holding hope.

951
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 2: But you have to You're gonna need to if you

952
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 2: want to stay, because you love him. Obviously you have

953
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 2: another baby on the way with him, You're gonna have

954
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 2: to set real clear boundaries. If you haven't already. Does

955
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: that make sense? Like she's gonna have to be like, look,

956
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: you you go to treatment. Kind of like what I

957
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 2: said to you, I was like, go figure your stuff out,

958
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 2: and you need to go check into treatment. Which is

959
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 2: so hard for a mom that's about to have a

960
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 2: baby and already toddler at home. But I mean maybe

961
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: that's that's their last ditch hope to maybe save their marriage.

962
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 2: I don't know, Pam, what do you think?

963
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I mean I've you know, dealt with

964
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: this as a child, and you know you're my mom

965
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: treated no just you know, like the whole boundaries and

966
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: like addiction and things and so yeah, like my mom

967
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: finally after so many times was like you know, she

968
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: she had two little kids, you know, the same thing,

969
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: like what it had no you know house, and but

970
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: she she there was too many boundaries broken constantly, and

971
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: she did leave.

972
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 2: There's a there's a point when you're just like you know,

973
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 2: you're done, you know, like you get simphere like I'm done.

974
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 2: And my friends and always said like you'll just know

975
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,439
Speaker 2: it's and it'll be just be like you're done. Having

976
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 2: said that, something has to happen here where she sees

977
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 2: some kind of something that he's i think, willing to

978
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 2: do to fight for the marriage because clearly he's an

979
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 2: active addiction.

980
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 3: And it's got to be significant. K.

981
00:48:57,960 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I mean, like treatment, And if.

982
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 3: It's not because of the life situation they're in with

983
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 3: a baby on the way and she doesn't want to

984
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 3: add even more stress or pain. I mean, that's her

985
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 3: decision to make up. But whatever boundary she puts in place,

986
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 3: as long as it's not harmful or belittling or disrespectful

987
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 3: to him like what like, yeah, like you can't do

988
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 3: anything at all except for good to work and come

989
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 3: like you know what I mean, Like you still have

990
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 3: to have some understanding of whatever. But I'm not saying

991
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 3: go out to the bars. I'm not saying do anything

992
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 3: social like that. But if he wants to go and

993
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 3: just have a beard a buddy's house or something and

994
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:44,959
Speaker 3: life through six, he needs to be on the phone,

995
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 3: COVID and ie.

996
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 2: No more social media.

997
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, no social media. Wipe out anything that can be

998
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 3: an outlet for that. So he is he is put

999
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 3: in this lane and it as a guy, especially who's

1000
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 3: someone in active addiction and doing stuff, he's going to

1001
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 3: be defiant towards it. Probably he's gonna have issues. He's

1002
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 3: gonna feel like I feel like a child. Well, you're

1003
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 3: acting like a child, you know what I mean. That's

1004
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 3: that I had to deal with and overcome for a

1005
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 3: long time.

1006
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry, Beb. I'm sorry.

1007
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 3: I yeah, We're just it sucks. And so it's your

1008
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 3: call to your decision on what you want, and we

1009
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 3: know it's not easy, and so we're just kind of

1010
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 3: talking through options that you have. And what you know,

1011
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 3: what Jana's therapists told her is like, was it no

1012
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 3: major life decisions in the first six to twelve months,

1013
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 3: No major life decisions. So she that's the thing I

1014
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 3: think she needs to realize, let the storm settle. She

1015
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,919
Speaker 3: doesn't have to make the decision right now.

1016
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good advice.

1017
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 3: Nothing's going to change if you make the decision right now.

1018
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 2: Just but yeah, but if you are going to considering,

1019
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 2: just like he has to go buy those boundaries of

1020
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 2: getting off social media life three sixty on the phones

1021
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 2: coven and I is on the computers. And that's not

1022
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 2: to baby them or be their parent. That's just protection

1023
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: and for safety for both of you. But we'll be

1024
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: thinking of you, and please email us and let us

1025
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 2: know how we can help you more.

1026
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 3: And if you like me to talk to him again.

1027
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 2: Then have him reach out again.

1028
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:23,919
Speaker 3: Have him reach out or email or what's her iHeart email.

1029
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 4: Wind down at iHeartRadio dot com.

1030
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 3: So, yeah, if your husband wants to email us there,

1031
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 3: iHeart team will get that to me and we'll go

1032
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 3: from there.

1033
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 2: Do we have any other ones?

1034
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 3: Mark we do?

1035
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 4: Melissa?

1036
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 2: Is it a total downer?

1037
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 5: The bottom line is she has a nineteen month old

1038
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 5: son with her husband. She wants baby number two, but

1039
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 5: husband is dead set on not having another. She says

1040
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 5: they can't imagine my son being only child and being

1041
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 5: alone in holiday events and it's daycare or played it

1042
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 5: for socialisation. I bring it up every few months, but

1043
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 5: it always ends up with me sobbing and him telling

1044
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 5: me no, he's embarrassed by the person he was when

1045
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 5: my son was a newborn and our marriage almost didn't survive.

1046
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 5: He's afraid he will become that awful person again and

1047
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 5: our marriage won't survive the second time. I can't accept

1048
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 5: that he's accepting the behavior and not willing to work

1049
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 5: on it and try for the sake of my needs

1050
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 5: of being a mother?

1051
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 4: How do I navigate this.

1052
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 3: Rough week?

1053
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 4: In the emails?

1054
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a little bit more to this one.

1055
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: I mean, he's saying he wasn't a good person when

1056
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: they had the newborn and he doesn't want to be

1057
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: that person again. But to me, that's kind of like

1058
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: a you know, an excuse to something else. I think

1059
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: there's a little bit more deeper than that.

1060
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one hundred percent work he needs to do,

1061
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 3: he needs the man, but.

1062
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: But you know, if it's not something he wants though,

1063
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 2: I mean I think.

1064
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's different, But that's different than saying he doesn't

1065
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 3: want to be the person he was when their first

1066
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 3: song was a newborn.

1067
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: Sure, then work on yourself.

1068
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: Saying he doesn't want another kid, he's like turning it

1069
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 1: now into all about him.

1070
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 3: Right, which is not fair, and saying that this newborn

1071
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 3: had that much effect on him negatively, which sucks to hear. Gosh, Yeah,

1072
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 3: like that's not encouraging. So how do you navigate it?

1073
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 2: If you're under thirty two? Divorce him? You still got

1074
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:34,720
Speaker 2: time to find someone enough.

1075
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: You're over, you got you got therapy, Yeah, do some

1076
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: therapy and then therapy there just hold him a.

1077
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:45,919
Speaker 2: Little tighter when you guys have sex. Bridgerton is asked, Yeah,

1078
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 2: I would.

1079
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 3: I would try to get a third party involved here,

1080
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 3: because nothing you say, Melissa will be able to will

1081
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 3: enlighten him. Unfortunately, from the sounds of it, he's stuck

1082
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 3: in his around this, so he needs a third party

1083
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:03,959
Speaker 3: to talk this out.

1084
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 2: We agree, and we also are going to choose the

1085
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 2: Bridgerton Act.

1086
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 3: Bridgerton Act.

1087
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 2: Great show, guys, Pittsburgh, Pam, thanks for joining us.

1088
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: Always happy to be with you.

1089
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: All right, guys, see you next week.