Speaker 1: What's up, guys. Just a reminder that we're now less
Speaker 1: than one week away from our next Mariner's Live event
Speaker 1: and we cannot wait to see you there. It's on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: July the twenty eighth at six pm over with our
Speaker 1: friends at the Emerald Queen Casino. So for those of
Speaker 1: you in the South Sound area, for those of you
Speaker 1: in the Seattle area that just want to make the
Speaker 1: trip over, we cannot wait to see you there because
Speaker 1: we're gonna be doing a Mariner's Trivia Night and we're
Speaker 1: going to watch the Mariners Dodgers game with you guys.
Speaker 2: At the conclusion of the trivia night. So we're gonna have.
Speaker 1: A bunch of fun prizes to give away, questions for
Speaker 1: you to answer, will be interacting with you guys throughout
Speaker 1: the night.
Speaker 2: It is a blast.
Speaker 1: The last one was a blast, and we cannot wait
Speaker 1: for this one too, So market on your calendars if
Speaker 1: you haven't done so already six pm this upcoming Tuesday,
Speaker 1: July the twenty eighth at the Emerald Queen Casino for
Speaker 1: a Mariner's Trivia Night and Mariner's Watch party.
Speaker 2: We can't wait to see you there.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 3: Episode number four thirty two of the Marine Layer Podcast.
Speaker 3: We welcome on our friend Joe Doyle from the Overslot
Speaker 3: to talk about the Mariner's twenty twenty six draft. We'll
Speaker 3: also react the Mariners splitting the first two games against
Speaker 3: the Cincinnati Reds, and your guys.
Speaker 1: Reminder, just do us a couple things before we start
Speaker 1: this podcast. Go download these episodes, make sure you leave
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Speaker 1: day at Marine Layer Pod.
Speaker 3: Let's get it rolling and welcome you to this episode
Speaker 3: of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball
Speaker 3: podcast network, recording here on Tuesday evening, July twenty first,
Speaker 3: and Lyle, we've really gotten everything in this Red series
Speaker 3: is so far.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And because we've gotten everything, I would analyze the first
Speaker 1: two games with eh. I mean, Monday was great. Monday
Speaker 1: showed a lot of life, and then Tuesday was a
Speaker 1: lot of the same things we just talk about over
Speaker 1: and over. So pick whichever side of the coin you want.
Speaker 1: If you're somebody that wants to focus more on Monday
Speaker 1: and looking at Cow's swing and Cow's Grand Slam as
Speaker 1: a potential spark plug, sure it is possible if you'd
Speaker 1: rather look at Tuesday and say, oh, look at all
Speaker 1: the same mistakes come into life.
Speaker 2: Also totally fair to look at that.
Speaker 3: What don't we talk about some positive first? I will
Speaker 3: say I liked I've liked Cow's approach of the plate
Speaker 3: the first two games. The swing was huge. I did
Speaker 3: think he'd put the Mariners in a pretty good spot
Speaker 3: in a very similar situation here on Tuesday, where it
Speaker 3: ended up drawing a walk, but the Mariners, just shockingly,
Speaker 3: as they are terrible with runners in scoring position, couldn't
Speaker 3: drive him in after the Reds walked the bases loaded,
Speaker 3: I think in the seventh inning tonight, trying to give
Speaker 3: the Maritors an opportunity to win, given how terrible the
Speaker 3: Reds bullpen were, but they unfortunately couldn't get that done.
Speaker 3: That swing he had on Monday, though, that was pretty
Speaker 3: good and the Reds I don't know what the Reds
Speaker 3: were doing on Monday night lyle it was. It kind
Speaker 3: of made sense, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the reasoning Francota put out there Terry
Speaker 1: Francona was they wanted to avoid having Canzone hit against
Speaker 1: the lefty, and Canzone in a small sample really has
Speaker 1: hit lefties. But even for as much as Cal struggled
Speaker 1: this year, I don't really know if I'd walked the
Speaker 1: bases loaded for Cal Raleigh and then throw him that pitch, Well,
Speaker 1: the pitch in the execution is where you run into
Speaker 1: all the problems, because I mean Caleb Ferguson essentially asked
Speaker 1: Cal to hit that to the next county with the
Speaker 1: pitch that he left up that.
Speaker 3: Looked like Seattle Mariners.
Speaker 1: Caleb Ferguson, Yeah who, By the way, then just continued
Speaker 1: to put himself in the news as he's essentially calling
Speaker 1: an umpire later in the inning a fat fuck to
Speaker 1: get out of the way.
Speaker 2: Like, I mean, everything night for Caleb, I mean everything that.
Speaker 1: Drove people nuts about Caleb Ferguson and his short stint
Speaker 1: as a Mariner seemed to really come to life in
Speaker 1: that outing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll dub that pitch from Caleb Ferguson the worst
Speaker 3: pitch of the twenty twenty six MLB season. You have
Speaker 3: a guy in Cal Rawley who's just really struggled. He
Speaker 3: has struggled at pitches up in the zone, he struggled
Speaker 3: at pitches down in the zone. He's chasing and expanding
Speaker 3: more than he ever has in his career. And Caleb
Speaker 3: Ferguson throws him a seventy eight mile an hour meatball
Speaker 3: right down the middle with the bases loaded.
Speaker 2: M hmm, yeah, I kind.
Speaker 3: Of thrown that pitch anywhere else and he threw it there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, not great, not great at all.
Speaker 3: I really hope that's the pitch that turns around Cal
Speaker 3: Raley season this year. Like Caleb Ferguson's like, all right,
Speaker 3: I'm sick and tired of watching Cal struggle. I might
Speaker 3: as well just take one for the team here and
Speaker 3: help him out a little bit and get him back
Speaker 3: on track. Now, we didn't get two straight days of
Speaker 3: Cal home runs, unfortunately. Have we even gotten two straight
Speaker 3: days of Cal home runs yet this year?
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 3: I mean he hasn't had a one time no, I mean.
Speaker 2: He hasn't hit enough of them he's had.
Speaker 3: I mean, that was what his we's sitting at ten
Speaker 3: right now. I'm gonna pull up his game logs. Let's see.
Speaker 1: No, I'm pretty sure he has not had back to
Speaker 1: back days with a home run.
Speaker 3: Well, I was hoping Caleb Ferguson was gonna bless us
Speaker 3: and have have Cal Raley hit home runs back to
Speaker 3: back days. Well, actually, dog, no, he's hit three home
Speaker 3: home runs in three straight games this year.
Speaker 2: Once was that when he was starting to find his
Speaker 2: rhythm before he got hurt again.
Speaker 3: We did it in all three games in or sorry
Speaker 3: at home against the A's, and that was it at
Speaker 3: that point in time, late April.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds about the point where he would look
Speaker 1: like he was starting to figure something out, but then
Speaker 1: he got hurt shortly after that.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, it's been three months since that point exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wait, oh late April.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was the April twenty first, twenty second, twenty third, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. Look, Cal walked twice on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: so there are some at bats that are looking a
Speaker 1: lot better, as timing seems to be a little bit
Speaker 1: more on he's working counts. He also had in a
Speaker 1: bat or two on Tuesday that didn't look as great.
Speaker 1: But I let's hope that look at let's hope that
Speaker 1: looking at the positive here, this can spark Cal a
Speaker 1: little bit, because I mean, we're just gonna continue to
Speaker 1: say it.
Speaker 2: And it's true.
Speaker 1: Cal doesn't get going like they're not going to the playoffs.
Speaker 1: It's that simple.
Speaker 3: It doesn't really matter what you do with the deadline
Speaker 3: as well, because no one you're gonna trade for at
Speaker 3: this deadline that's actually available to trade makes the kind
Speaker 3: of impact that Cal Rawley does.
Speaker 2: No, it's that simple.
Speaker 3: I know people were getting really frustrated with Jerry Depoto
Speaker 3: when he sat down with Adam Jude and said that.
Speaker 3: And you can I roll a little bit at the
Speaker 3: sentiment where it's like the best players we can acquire
Speaker 3: are currently on our team. But Jerry's right, that's it
Speaker 3: Like Hot Julio and Col are significantly better than Taylor Ward,
Speaker 3: and that's Taylor Ward's a best case scenario for what
Speaker 3: you acquire.
Speaker 2: Two things are true in general.
Speaker 1: This is not just a Mariner's thing, although Jerry has
Speaker 1: said it his fair share of times and his tenure here,
Speaker 1: but it's true for all gms across Major League Baseball.
Speaker 1: When you spin to your fan base the words of
Speaker 1: we view getting player X back from injury as a
Speaker 1: trade deadline acquisition. I mean, it just makes my blood
Speaker 1: absolutely boil because it's a cop it's a cop out answer.
Speaker 2: It is it's here's an excuse for why we didn't add.
Speaker 1: All that being said, you were right, and Jerry is
Speaker 1: right in this scenario that because of the current state
Speaker 1: of the trademark market and the guys that will and
Speaker 1: will not be available, he is right that there's nobody
Speaker 1: that's going to make the impact that getting Call and
Speaker 1: Julio going would make. There's no nailers on this market.
Speaker 1: There's no genos on this market. The solution is going
Speaker 1: to come internally or it's not gonna come at all.
Speaker 1: You can have players like you can still add and
Speaker 1: they should still add players that will help this roster.
Speaker 2: But the only true changes, the only true, truly like,
Speaker 2: the only true.
Speaker 1: Difference makers post deadline that this team will have is
Speaker 1: Callan Julio getting hot. If those guys don't truly both
Speaker 1: of them don't truly get hot, yeah, you're probably not
Speaker 1: making the playoffs.
Speaker 3: Let's walk through that decision for a minute here. That
Speaker 3: led to cal Rowly hitting that Grand Slam because it
Speaker 3: is a study into whether or not you look at
Speaker 3: the numbers or you're looking at handiness. So if you're
Speaker 3: only looking at handiness, the Reds brought a lefty in
Speaker 3: to intentionally walk a lefty and pinch to a switch
Speaker 3: hitter who's hitting righty. If you look at the numbers,
Speaker 3: you would notice that Dom can Zone in about thirty
Speaker 3: five played appearances against lefties this season. I think it's
Speaker 3: thirty five, maybe it's more than that, has a nine
Speaker 3: to ten OPS against lefties this year, which is really good.
Speaker 3: On the other side, Cal Rawley when facing lefties this
Speaker 3: year has an OPS of four sixty So like it
Speaker 3: doesn't look right with the eye test. Technically, the Reds
Speaker 3: made the right decision by the numbers, but that is
Speaker 3: a scenario where you can lean away from the numbers
Speaker 3: when it doesn't really feel right. Dude, dilay that out right.
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, and I'm sure people listening
Speaker 1: get what you're saying. But yeah, Cal's got a four
Speaker 1: to sixty two OPS against left handed pitching this year.
Speaker 2: It's been a struggle for him.
Speaker 1: And I would say this because Terry Francona I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys all saw or if you saw tech,
Speaker 1: but he did say on Tuesday, look, I'd do it again.
Speaker 1: And there will be people that don't agree with him
Speaker 1: on that, and I get it, because again, loading the
Speaker 1: bases in general for cal Raley seems like an odd
Speaker 1: move when can Zone does not have a long history
Speaker 1: of success against lefties, though he's now showing a short.
Speaker 2: History of success.
Speaker 1: But all that being said by Francona saying I do
Speaker 1: it again, that means that he is a manager, and
Speaker 1: a manager that's clearly had a lot of success in
Speaker 1: his big league career, which he has where he says,
Speaker 1: this is my process and it's not gonna work every time,
Speaker 1: but I'm sticking to it.
Speaker 2: He is conviction in his process.
Speaker 1: It didn't work in that scenario, but he clearly had
Speaker 1: a process and a conviction. There's a certain manager across
Speaker 1: the dugout who doesn't seem to have a lot of
Speaker 1: conviction in his decisions, and we can get to that
Speaker 1: in a couple minutes. But I do give Tito credit
Speaker 1: for that. While it certainly made some people scratch their
Speaker 1: heads for every good reason and that one did not work,
Speaker 1: he has a conviction behind his decisions. He explains it,
Speaker 1: and he sticks to it.
Speaker 3: Someone was joking to us today at the ballpark that
Speaker 3: that is the kind of decision an AI bot would
Speaker 3: make in a baseball game. So, because there was the
Speaker 3: story this week about MLB cracking down on teams using
Speaker 3: AI in the dugout to help themselves, and someone came
Speaker 3: up to us today and we were talking about that
Speaker 3: decision and was kind of joking like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: because you obviously don't have total control over it. It's
Speaker 3: something completely different from your own brain thinking and making
Speaker 3: this decision. It's like, yeah, it doesn't really make much
Speaker 3: sense if you look at it like on the eyeballs
Speaker 3: and you kind of have to dive into the numbers
Speaker 3: to see, you how did it come to this decision?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And again there was there was a process behind the decision.
Speaker 1: So I think I think both sides have an argument
Speaker 1: to this one. To be honest, it is totally fine
Speaker 1: and totally warranted. If you're gonna scratch your head and say,
Speaker 1: why in the world would they set that up for
Speaker 1: cal Raley, But there's also some numbers that back that up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, so let's talk about some of the
Speaker 3: other in this Red series before we get to a
Speaker 3: fantastic conversation with Joe Doyle where we talk about Ace Rees,
Speaker 3: Jake Brown and many others. Acees at the ballpark today
Speaker 3: at Timobi Park here on Tuesday along with Lyle. Who's
Speaker 3: he with?
Speaker 1: Oh, he was with Scottie. He was with Scott Boris.
Speaker 1: Second summer in a row. He's made the trip out
Speaker 1: to Tamobile Park.
Speaker 3: I'll say he's got a recurring flight booked for his
Speaker 3: clients when they signed in Seattle.
Speaker 1: Well, he doesn't make many other trips out And I'm
Speaker 1: sure Scott Boris travels to other parks.
Speaker 2: During the year, but he doesn't get to say outtle
Speaker 2: that much.
Speaker 3: Low and I knew Kate Anderson last year was a
Speaker 3: Scott Boris guy. Wow, we had no idea.
Speaker 1: I thought we did now, not till we walked into
Speaker 1: that room for the presser and we saw.
Speaker 2: His name tag and we're like, oh, I thought we did.
Speaker 1: We walked into the room, we were fired up and
Speaker 1: elated about the Kate Anderson pick. Still we look up
Speaker 1: at the at the front of the room, we see
Speaker 1: a Scott Boris name tag. Then we look at each
Speaker 1: other and say, oh, well, when his service clocks starts,
Speaker 1: let's enjoy the six years and then he's gone.
Speaker 3: So you can imagine Laala and I's surprise today when
Speaker 3: we walked into the ballpark and we see this guy
Speaker 3: in a green suit jacket walking around, standing on the
Speaker 3: warning track and talking. He's like, oh, he's back.
Speaker 2: He's back.
Speaker 3: So anyways, we talked about Ace Reese and many others
Speaker 3: in the Maritor's draft class with Joe Doyle. I mean,
Speaker 3: we'll get to it in a little bit.
Speaker 2: We will get to it in a little bit.
Speaker 1: And also a little transparency again, people are interested in
Speaker 1: the peek behind the curtains. We actually met Scott Boris
Speaker 1: for the first time today, Like we actually went and
Speaker 1: said what's up briefly, I mean, if you'll want more
Speaker 1: further transparency, we've kind of we've kind of put some
Speaker 1: feelers out there about if you'd ever want to get
Speaker 1: on the Bullpen Banner channel with us and do some
Speaker 1: baseball trivia. And I will say not a total no.
Speaker 3: It's not a no. Yeah that's important. It's not a no.
Speaker 1: Like like like put potential potential progress being made. It's
Speaker 1: not gonna it's not gonna happen tomorrow, but there's been
Speaker 1: some progress made.
Speaker 2: I like, listen, you can feel how you want.
Speaker 1: About him, But I think that would be a pretty
Speaker 1: interesting person to do baseball trivia with.
Speaker 3: Definitely knows his baseball, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and likes and likes to talk, which makes him
Speaker 1: a perfect person for the channel.
Speaker 3: He did a lot of talking today, well, and I
Speaker 3: were standing and observing he was doing a lot of talking.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: If I mean, if we had caught him earlier in
Speaker 1: the day, maybe there would have been more than a conversation.
Speaker 1: But we caught him right at the end as he's
Speaker 1: starting to wrap up for a minute or two. Hell,
Speaker 1: if we had actually gotten into a full fledged conversation.
Speaker 1: We joke that be like, hey man, I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to the twenty thirty.
Speaker 2: Four Winter meetings.
Speaker 1: When you have your press conference as Ace Reese hits
Speaker 1: free agency and you say, listen, the only more valuable
Speaker 1: hand in a deck than a king is an ace.
Speaker 1: As Ace Reese has hit sets a hit free agency
Speaker 1: and make money.
Speaker 3: Did all these teams, all these teams want to want
Speaker 3: a king for their castle. But the only thing better
Speaker 3: than a king, it's an ace.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that quote will be said in the next eight
Speaker 1: to ten years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, let's get to Let's get to these other
Speaker 3: things before we get to Joe. The starting pitching decisions
Speaker 3: in this Red Series were a little puzzling, to say
Speaker 3: the least. So George Kirby is rolling along on Monday,
Speaker 3: gets to eighty pitches through six innings. Dan Wilson decides
Speaker 3: to take George Kirby out at eighty pitches and then
Speaker 3: they go to Nick Davila with a one nothing lead
Speaker 3: for the Mariners in that moment. Of course, the Mariners
Speaker 3: end up hang on and winning. Davila gets himself out
Speaker 3: of some trouble in the seventh inning, but it was
Speaker 3: kind of puzzling, to say the least, to see George
Speaker 3: Kirby get yanked that early. Then the Mariners go to
Speaker 3: Luis Castillo tonight and they let Louis pitch to one
Speaker 3: hundred pitches into the seventh inning and the Mariners okay,
Speaker 3: and then the okay. So then the order after that
Speaker 3: was then Farrer and then Rutgery have that right.
Speaker 1: Which I mean, first off, look at this face. Does
Speaker 1: this face look like somebody.
Speaker 3: I was looking at my camera and not my screen.
Speaker 3: I didn't I didn't see that the scowl on Miles
Speaker 3: face as I'm talking through Dan Wilson decisions.
Speaker 1: Does this look like a face of somebody that was
Speaker 1: pleased or impressed with the full pen decisions over the
Speaker 1: last couple days.
Speaker 2: No, I'm gonna go with no.
Speaker 3: I would say we were both equally confused on both days.
Speaker 3: The Kirby one had me a little bit more confused,
Speaker 3: given that they're talking about they need to get these
Speaker 3: guys more rest, which is fine, So they go to
Speaker 3: a six man rotation. George Kirby, I believe, if I
Speaker 3: have it right, pitched once in the last one other
Speaker 3: time in the last three weeks, but they pulled him
Speaker 3: at eighty pitches after six innings.
Speaker 1: So let's start with the Kirby decision, and I'll preface
Speaker 1: it with this. Ultimately, it doesn't matter for that game specifically,
Speaker 1: because the offense ended up just coming alive late and
Speaker 1: they won by a lot and cal Raley hit the
Speaker 1: Grand Slam, and that's great. We're gonna get to the
Speaker 1: overall theme of this team a little bit later, which is,
Speaker 1: I mean, i'll preview it here now for a second,
Speaker 1: which is, you can do whatever you want against the
Speaker 1: Giants and the Reds. You win both of these series, awesome,
Speaker 1: you're winning games and telling it to your win total.
Speaker 1: But what you do against last place teams isn't gonna
Speaker 1: be what defines your season. You've got some really important
Speaker 1: games coming up that you're gonna have to play a
Speaker 1: lot better than this and have a much sound, much
Speaker 1: more sound decision making process than this.
Speaker 2: And it boils down to this again.
Speaker 1: Between Monday, despite winning, and between Tuesday, which we'll get
Speaker 1: to in a minute, the overall process is still a
Speaker 1: massive problem and is making my head explode. It doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense, and parlayed with there are still no
Speaker 1: answers given to any of it, not actual answers.
Speaker 2: George Kirkby on.
Speaker 1: Monday, to your point, is pulled at eighty pitches after
Speaker 1: having one start in three weeks, and paired with the
Speaker 1: fact that having Spire and Bizardo down on Monday, having
Speaker 1: thrown back to back days, you have got to cover innings, man,
Speaker 1: You've got to cover innings throughout those nine innings, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden he's yanked at eighty pitches with
Speaker 1: two leverage relievers down, and then you have to go
Speaker 1: to the guys at the back of your bullpen in
Speaker 1: the seventh and eighth and ninth inning in a situation
Speaker 1: that at the start of that whole thing, the game
Speaker 1: was close. Credit in the world to the offense because
Speaker 1: they put it out of hand. But to start that
Speaker 1: whole process, you're deciding that a starter at eighty pitches
Speaker 1: is just done so you can go to the back
Speaker 1: of your bullpen with leverage arms down. How does that
Speaker 1: make any sense? And it doesn't make any sense. And
Speaker 1: when you're running a six man rotation, which they are
Speaker 1: still deciding to do, by the way, because they won't
Speaker 1: make a definitive decision about anybody in this rota because
Speaker 1: clearly it seems like they want to trade somebody. Then
Speaker 1: while you're running the six man rotation, you have got
Speaker 1: to get length out of your starters.
Speaker 2: And your starter in Kirby, was at eighty pitches. Why
Speaker 2: is he being yanked?
Speaker 3: I don't know. That doesn't make There's two options. Either
Speaker 3: the team was trying to rest him, which I guess
Speaker 3: I would just disagree with given that it's late July.
Speaker 3: They just had the All Star break and we're not
Speaker 3: even in Like the dog days, yet the dog days
Speaker 3: are late August, right when the season is really grinding on.
Speaker 3: In your game one hundred and twenty, one hundred and thirty,
Speaker 3: one hundred and forty and you see the finish line
Speaker 3: but you're not quite there yet, and knowing that you
Speaker 3: already get an extra day more of rest in this
Speaker 3: rotation than you would get in any other rotation, that
Speaker 3: strategy doesn't really make sense, Like you don't get to
Speaker 3: I don't think you get to run a six man
Speaker 3: rotation and try and pull your pitchers out of games
Speaker 3: early because those two combinations don't work. You do need
Speaker 3: to get some extra outs when your starters when you can,
Speaker 3: because that's how your pitching staff is set up. Or
Speaker 3: on the other side, if like Kirby needs rest for
Speaker 3: some reason, then like I don't know what else to say,
Speaker 3: like how how can you need rest at eighty pitches?
Speaker 1: So it's like it's one of those two when you
Speaker 1: haven't thrown in many games in the last three weeks,
Speaker 1: and it could be a rous thing. But I would
Speaker 1: also counter that and say, are you not throwing bullpens
Speaker 1: during the All Star break? Or you're not getting your
Speaker 1: work in? Are you're not getting your throwing in. Bryce
Speaker 1: Miller posted on his Instagram story over the All Star
Speaker 1: break of him throwing his bullpen over at the ballpark, like,
Speaker 1: are you not still getting your ramp up?
Speaker 3: I'm sure he is.
Speaker 1: Sure he is, Yeah right, I'm sure he is too.
Speaker 1: I'm just putting the questions out there. I'm sure Kirby
Speaker 1: is putting in the work and getting his work in
Speaker 1: and getting his bullpens in. But if that's what's happening,
Speaker 1: why in the world he need to be yanked at
Speaker 1: eighty pitches? And yes we are. We are really harping
Speaker 1: on a situation in a game that they ultimately won
Speaker 1: by a lot. But this is why we keep talking
Speaker 1: about this, because you're gonna have games that are much
Speaker 1: more important and much more high leverage than a Monday
Speaker 1: game against the Reds. When you play the Rangers, and
Speaker 1: you play the Dodgers, and you play the Rays, and
Speaker 1: you play all these teams coming up on your schedule
Speaker 1: down the stretch. Your process has to be way better
Speaker 1: than this. It's not good enough. It's still not good enough.
Speaker 1: And we've been saying it for two years. It's not
Speaker 1: good enough.
Speaker 3: It's and then it and then.
Speaker 2: You parlay it to Tuesday.
Speaker 3: Well wait, well let's let's let's let's finish. Let's finish
Speaker 3: up Monday here really quick, because this is how the
Speaker 3: situation lays out, and a game that the Mariners won,
Speaker 3: knowing your bullpen is down, your options are pitching George
Speaker 3: Kirby from eighty to one hundred pitches in the seventh
Speaker 3: inning with a bullpen with two maybe three leverage arms
Speaker 3: down because Munnos had also pitched in two games in
Speaker 3: a row at that point, or having Nick Davula pitch
Speaker 3: with a one run lead. Those are your two options.
Speaker 3: I feel like to me, it's a pretty clear option.
Speaker 3: We're not always the highest guys on George Kirby, but
Speaker 3: that one's pretty clear to me.
Speaker 2: Pretty easy, yes, George Kirby.
Speaker 1: And if there's something wrong, either something's gonna come out
Speaker 1: in the next few days or as usual, there will
Speaker 1: be no explanation given by Dan Wilson for why he
Speaker 1: did what he did right.
Speaker 3: Correct, Okay, so that's Monday, now Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Then Tuesday.
Speaker 1: You're in a similar situation where Luis Casillo also hasn't
Speaker 1: made his first start out of the All Star Break,
Speaker 1: but magically he's working into the seventh inning and is
Speaker 1: throwing like one hundred pitches.
Speaker 2: What's the difference?
Speaker 1: That would be my question, which again I'm sure Dan
Speaker 1: won't answer, But why can Kirby only go eighty making
Speaker 1: his first start out of the All Star break, but
Speaker 1: Luis can go one hundred making his first start out
Speaker 1: of the All Star Break?
Speaker 3: So great question. But also you and I know that's
Speaker 3: not really the storyline here. The story no, but how
Speaker 3: they approached after Louise.
Speaker 1: Well, sure, and we're about to get to that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: Kirby and Luis tie into this here because even before
Speaker 1: all the ridiculous bullpen decisions that went down on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: there is a comparing contrast here that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: With your two starters over the last two days. Why
Speaker 1: can one go eighty pitches and the other can? I
Speaker 1: mean they made roughly the same amount of starts this year.
Speaker 1: Luis Castillo as a whole through one hundred and one
Speaker 1: pitches on Tuesday, like with a.
Speaker 3: More arrested bullpen, by the way, in a closer game
Speaker 3: than what they were experiencing on Monday.
Speaker 1: So again, we are talking about all this because a
Speaker 1: few wins against the Giants and Reds ultimately is not
Speaker 1: the end all be all.
Speaker 2: I hope it sparks something.
Speaker 1: I hope Cole young swing against the Giants or Cal's
Speaker 1: swing against the Reds does spark a real wind streak.
Speaker 1: But like your process, just like this can't continue. I
Speaker 1: don't know how many times we have to. We've got
Speaker 1: to say this can't continue. But it has to be
Speaker 1: better than this. And it's not.
Speaker 3: To wrap up Tuesday on what the the issue was
Speaker 3: the process with a rested bullpen, because all non leverage
Speaker 3: guys pitched on Monday. The Mariners had were trailing by
Speaker 3: one single run in the ninth inning. Ultimately, the offense
Speaker 3: didn't score enough runs to put them ahead, but the
Speaker 3: Mariners had a more rested bullpen. They went to a
Speaker 3: leverage arm in Jose Ferrera right after Luis Castill came
Speaker 3: out well, the Mariners were down two runs. But then
Speaker 3: when after the Mariners get a run back on Julio
Speaker 3: Rodriguez coming in off the bench. By the way, it's
Speaker 3: just the weirdest thing ever hitting a home run to
Speaker 3: make it a one run game. The Mariners end up
Speaker 3: with Michael Rucker pitching the ninth inning in a one
Speaker 3: run game with a arrested bullpen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so just to add some context to that, start
Speaker 1: to go to leverage, arms down two and when you
Speaker 1: go to Ferrer in the eighth, you're saying to yourself, Okay,
Speaker 1: the Mariners know the Reds have a weak bullpen. They
Speaker 1: think they can get to them. They got Chase Burns
Speaker 1: out of the game. They have confidence they can claw
Speaker 1: their way back into this. And Frer did his job
Speaker 1: Fred and give up a run. He kept the game
Speaker 1: at a two run Reds lead. Then Julio comes in
Speaker 1: and ties it and makes it a one run game,
Speaker 1: and you think to yourself, Okay, they're trying to go
Speaker 1: for this one. They're not punting this game. They're going
Speaker 1: for it. Because they went to Ferrer, Spire and Bizardo
Speaker 1: both didn't pitch on Monday. You have options now going
Speaker 1: into the ninth inning to try and capitalize on this.
Speaker 1: Until magically you've gone from Jose Ferrera to Michael Rucker
Speaker 1: who comes in in the ninth inning and gives up
Speaker 1: a home run. What like, how how in the world
Speaker 1: do you go from Ferrer to cut the lead to
Speaker 1: one to Michael Rucker After Bizarto Inspire did not pitch
Speaker 1: what like, seriously, what what is happening?
Speaker 3: Is just time for Michael Rutger to pitch?
Speaker 2: Good lord?
Speaker 3: I mean, by the way, the Mariners don't need to
Speaker 3: save their bullpen arms for a long like fifteen game
Speaker 3: in a row stretch. They have Thursday off, well, They'll
Speaker 3: play on Wednesday Tomorrow afternoon and then have Thursday off well.
Speaker 1: And that's what makes no sense because the Dan quote
Speaker 1: after the game asking about this was as follows. Here,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pull it up just to make sure i
Speaker 1: get the right quote word for word, because it was
Speaker 1: tweeted out after the game. Here's his reasoning for doing
Speaker 1: what he did with the whole Rucker in the ninth
Speaker 1: inning situation. He said, we've got a quick turnaround again tomorrow,
Speaker 1: so you've got away all your options there. And Rucker
Speaker 1: did throw the ball extremely well last night. You have
Speaker 1: an off day on Thursday. What is a quick turnaround
Speaker 1: the next day matter? If you have leverage bullpen arms
Speaker 1: rested from the night before, are you trying to win
Speaker 1: that game or not? Because by going to Ferrera in
Speaker 1: the eighth inning, you are signaling that you are, and
Speaker 1: then magically you go to Rucker in the ninth.
Speaker 3: Unless Michael Rucker got some promotion to a leverage roll,
Speaker 3: which I don't see. He's got an ERA over five.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's nothing there that would suggest he's a
Speaker 3: lever darm at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And by the way, when he threw on Monday. In
Speaker 1: Monday's game, he threw the ninth inning, they were up eight,
Speaker 1: nothing like, like, what do I care if Michael Rucker
Speaker 1: threw the ball well and it ate nothing game to
Speaker 1: then let him pitch in a one run game on
Speaker 1: back to back days in the ninth when you have
Speaker 1: an off day on Thursday.
Speaker 2: Seriously, I mean, like, these these things that happen.
Speaker 3: Are just mind boggling.
Speaker 1: They truly are, and it makes you think you're the
Speaker 1: crazy one when you watch these things unfold, when in reality,
Speaker 1: it's like like like we have been baseball fans our
Speaker 1: whole life. We have watched the game, and we we
Speaker 1: got like we invest our time and effort to learning
Speaker 1: the game and knowing the game as well as we
Speaker 1: possibly can as fans. And I'm sorry, but like there
Speaker 1: is I'm sorry. I will not divvy away from this.
Speaker 1: I will not like I will not sit here and
Speaker 1: say wait, no, I'm the crazy one, like, we're wrong.
Speaker 2: No, Like you see Michael Rucker.
Speaker 1: Coming the game in a one run game after using
Speaker 1: for rare and you sit there and have your jaw
Speaker 1: on the floor. You're not crazy for thinking that. You're
Speaker 1: totally valid for thinking what the hell is going on?
Speaker 1: And then there's no explanation given. Oh there's there's we
Speaker 1: have a quick turnaround. We have a day game the
Speaker 1: next day. So like, so what, like you you just
Speaker 1: rested Bizardo and Spire for a day. Why aren't they
Speaker 1: good to throw on back to back days with an
Speaker 1: off day on Thursday.
Speaker 4: Now it's a great question, Lyle. I mean wish I
Speaker 4: had the answer for you. I mean, it just it
Speaker 4: just drives me nuts. I like, I don't get it.
Speaker 4: And then there's never explanations get.
Speaker 3: Then no, no, no, there's not.
Speaker 1: Let me say it again. The process has to be
Speaker 1: better than this or or it's just not going to
Speaker 1: matter simply to like similar to cal and Julio having
Speaker 1: to hit their stride if they want to make the playoffs.
Speaker 1: If this is how games are managed the rest of
Speaker 1: the year, I mean, you're in huge trouble. And we've
Speaker 1: talked about this for two years now, this can't keep happening.
Speaker 3: And another thing that happened this week is that I
Speaker 3: think we got more inside the mind of like difference
Speaker 3: versus fan and player when it comes to when it
Speaker 3: comes to this situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's a really really interesting conversation.
Speaker 3: So Logan Gilbert went on KJR with Softy, and Softy
Speaker 3: asked him, I believe the word softy use in his
Speaker 3: question or what would he say to people who want
Speaker 3: Dan Wilson replaced. Here's Logan's answer. I always try to
Speaker 3: be pretty nice. If I ever heard people say that
Speaker 3: I get pretty fired up, that's ridiculous that people would
Speaker 3: say that. Dan is one of the best people I've
Speaker 3: ever met. I think he's amazing at his job and
Speaker 3: what he does and the way he gets us going.
Speaker 3: I think every single one of us would go to
Speaker 3: bat for him. I love playing under him, and I
Speaker 3: hope he stays here forever.
Speaker 2: Okay, look, this is the Logan Gilbert podcast. We love Logan.
Speaker 1: Logan's been on, He's been one of our favorite guys
Speaker 1: to watch. He's been one of our favorite guys to
Speaker 1: talk to ever since he got into the Org, ever
Speaker 1: since we started to get to know him a little bit.
Speaker 1: But there is a different perspective here between players and fans,
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I look, first off, Softy really gave him
Speaker 1: a tough question there, Like, that's a tough thing to
Speaker 1: put a player on the spot for to ask him
Speaker 1: something like that.
Speaker 3: And by the way, someone is tenured as Softy though
Speaker 3: he can like he can ask what he wants.
Speaker 1: He can ask what he wants. It's his show. I'm
Speaker 1: not telling him how to run his show. It's just
Speaker 1: a tough thing to put a player on the spot
Speaker 1: to answer. And by the way, what's a player going
Speaker 1: to say for anybody that's like wow, I mean like,
Speaker 1: I mean he went to that for him. One, I
Speaker 1: mean Logan did do that, and we'll dive into that
Speaker 1: more in a minute. But two, what's any player going
Speaker 1: to say, yeah, like let him go No, of course not.
Speaker 1: That would spread like wildfire in half a second if
Speaker 1: that happened.
Speaker 3: It'd be a be terrible pr Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Logan obviously stands up for him, and he did
Speaker 1: really go in depth in the answer. It wasn't a
Speaker 1: pr trained answer. Like Logan clearly likes him, okay, Like,
Speaker 1: like that's fine, Logan can do that. But I think
Speaker 1: there's a reason that players don't make decisions too.
Speaker 2: No, no, because.
Speaker 3: What well, I mean, Doug, there's an example on this
Speaker 3: team why players don't make decisions.
Speaker 1: Are we just gonna leave it at that or are
Speaker 1: you gonna explain yourself or are we gonna let the
Speaker 1: people just make the connections.
Speaker 3: I think the people can make the connection. But you
Speaker 3: get that, well, there's like there's different there's different jobs
Speaker 3: here for everybody, Like right, Logan, Logan Gilbert's job is
Speaker 3: not to analyze how Dan Wilson manages the team from
Speaker 3: a strategic perspective, which is how Low and I look
Speaker 3: at it, because well, Logan might have a better sense
Speaker 3: on the clubhouse, and we only get bits and pieces
Speaker 3: from how that clubhouse is based on what's public. And
Speaker 3: by the way, the stuff that is public.
Speaker 2: Doesn't really seem that great.
Speaker 3: But anyways, the thing we can analyze is what actually
Speaker 3: happens in the games, right, That's the perspective we come from,
Speaker 3: and ultimately, like what matters is is how fans feel.
Speaker 3: That's a big part of it, right.
Speaker 1: And right now, Logan, while the twenty six guys in
Speaker 1: that clubhouse, if it's truly all twenty six might still
Speaker 1: get really fired up to play for him. There's a
Speaker 1: hell of a lot of people out there that are
Speaker 1: feeling a lot differently.
Speaker 2: Than you right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and for reasons, for reasons that I think fans
Speaker 1: have total validation for feeling.
Speaker 3: And the fans would say, okay, like, great, you guys
Speaker 3: are fired up and you're happy under this. But then
Speaker 3: I'm sitting here watching sloppy, uninspiring baseball. So does that
Speaker 3: mean that's a good thing that you guys are fired up?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: Probably not in that case.
Speaker 1: So let's say it again. Do I believe that Logan
Speaker 1: really likes Stan Wilson.
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Do I believe that Logan Gilbert really gets motivated to
Speaker 1: go to battle for his manager?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Again, I'm sure Logan really likes him. What Logan probably
Speaker 1: isn't sitting around and taking all the time in the
Speaker 1: world to analyze is why in the world you're going
Speaker 1: to Ferrara in the eighth and then Michael Rucker when
Speaker 1: the game is still close. Logan Gilbert is probably not
Speaker 1: sitting there analyzing why in the world in Cleveland a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago you just ran out of leverage arms
Speaker 1: and have to go to Michael Rucker in the eighth
Speaker 1: inning that cost you a game a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 1: He's probably not analyzing why Munno's wasn't in the game
Speaker 1: in Game seven of the Alcs after putting in Bizarto
Speaker 1: for the fifth time in the series, when he had
Speaker 1: just seen that part of the lineup the game before
Speaker 1: in game six. These are the things that the players
Speaker 1: are not analyzing. What people see that are not connected
Speaker 1: emotionally to their manager are decisions that look like a
Speaker 1: totally unsound process way too often feels like a lack
Speaker 1: of preparation at times, feels like a preparation that does
Speaker 1: not involve thinking ahead enough, and it's one move ahead
Speaker 1: rather than three moves ahead, which you have to do
Speaker 1: as a manager. And it doesn't involve the public perception
Speaker 1: that the manager puts on of his team to the public.
Speaker 1: The perception of the team that Dan might put on
Speaker 1: to the twenty six guys in the clubhouse might be great,
Speaker 1: and it might be exactly what they need. It doesn't
Speaker 1: change the fact that when fans and when the public
Speaker 1: is trying to figure out why decisions are getting made,
Speaker 1: and there are answers being given that are not well
Speaker 1: delivered and are a lot of ums and you knows
Speaker 1: and sounds like a lot of uncertainty. Well, that's what
Speaker 1: leads a lot of fans to all the twenty six
Speaker 1: players on the roster. That's what leads a lot of
Speaker 1: people outside of your clubhouse to sit there and say,
Speaker 1: what's the deal man. While you guys might feel differently,
Speaker 1: there's a different perception outside of that clubhouse that is
Speaker 1: also a valid one.
Speaker 3: And the thing about players is you could ask them
Speaker 3: about this, but these guys are so focused on doing
Speaker 3: their job well because they have to perform at the
Speaker 3: highest level and prepare to perform at the highest level
Speaker 3: all the time, that they don't have time to think
Speaker 3: about the big picture, Like they have lives outside of
Speaker 3: baseball and they have a job to do better than
Speaker 3: anyone on plane at Earth. So they literally can't sit
Speaker 3: there and think about those kind of things. That's just
Speaker 3: not their job. So that's not what they're going to.
Speaker 1: Focus on, right But there's a lot of other people
Speaker 1: out there who do have the time to focus on
Speaker 1: that stuff that are noticing it. And again, it's not
Speaker 1: out of left field. It's not some shooting from the
Speaker 1: hip type of crazy take. There's numbers behind this, there's
Speaker 1: process behind this, and there's no there's no conceptual argument
Speaker 1: for how Michael Rutger is in the game in the
Speaker 1: ninth inning after using a leverage arm when you have
Speaker 1: cut the lead closer to where it was the inning before.
Speaker 2: I mean, again, I'm glad.
Speaker 1: The players feel inspired to play for their manager, Sol
Speaker 1: Gilbert at least says publicly, But that doesn't mean that's
Speaker 1: the full picture, because it's just not. And like when
Speaker 1: you have to talk about these decisions this many times,
Speaker 1: it's a story and a manager should never ever be
Speaker 1: this big of a story, and it continues to be.
Speaker 3: Let's wrap this up on this thought. I'm glad the
Speaker 3: Mariners have shown like a tiny bit of life against
Speaker 3: the Giants and against the Reds Or they've hit some
Speaker 3: big home runs and they've really fired up the crowd,
Speaker 3: and they even have me believing even the slimmest percent more,
Speaker 3: none of this matters if they go out on the
Speaker 3: road against the Rangers and Dodgers and lay another goose egg.
Speaker 3: They go into Texas and they split or they lose
Speaker 3: three or four, and then I could predict pretty much
Speaker 3: what's gonna happen in LA against a supremely talented Dodger
Speaker 3: team and they get run out of the building, then
Speaker 3: we're just right back to square one, if not further back.
Speaker 1: Wile, oh, we'd be further back than square one if
Speaker 1: you lose three of four to the Rangers and then
Speaker 1: lose the Dodger series or you know, get swept. We're
Speaker 1: approaching territory of hashtag cooked because now you're sitting well
Speaker 1: under five hundred, approaching the trade deadline that's days away,
Speaker 1: with a market that's already not very good, and a
Speaker 1: team that maybe on the brink of asking the.
Speaker 2: Question of do you buy for these guys?
Speaker 1: These next few games are really, really important, and I
Speaker 1: hope that those swings from cole Jong and cal Raley
Speaker 1: do truly end up being the difference makers that turn
Speaker 1: things up on the upswing for good. But what you
Speaker 1: do against the Reds and Giants simply isn't a big
Speaker 1: enough story. Mariners win on Wednesday against the Reds, great,
Speaker 1: it's another win. It's not a big picture story at all.
Speaker 1: Beating Brady Singer on Wednesday is not a big picture story.
Speaker 1: You have got to go win that series against the Rangers,
Speaker 1: and you have to look like a team with some
Speaker 1: lighte against the Dodgers. If you go play the Dodgers,
Speaker 1: you win one of three, but you're competitive in the
Speaker 1: other games. You can get up about it. You lose
Speaker 1: three or four in Texas, and if you get swept
Speaker 1: by the Dodgers or lose that Dodgers series really uninspiringly man.
Speaker 1: I mean, as we sit at the end of July,
Speaker 1: at that point it is a position that it is
Speaker 1: not going to be a fun conversation to have.
Speaker 3: And you could buy anyways, but any hope of a
Speaker 3: World Series, at least in our eyes, is probably gone.
Speaker 3: It's most of the way gone now. But when you
Speaker 3: have like clear games circled on your calendar, facing a
Speaker 3: team that's ahead of you in the division heading into
Speaker 3: the final two months of the season, and the two
Speaker 3: time defending World Series champions with as much talent as
Speaker 3: you do have on your roster, Logan Gilbert says, they're
Speaker 3: fired up to play for Dan Wilson all the time,
Speaker 3: and Dan says his identity for his team in the
Speaker 3: second half is showing up and being ready to play.
Speaker 3: Now's the time to do it in these series because
Speaker 3: at some point the big series do after matter. You
Speaker 3: have to show up and you have to perform. And
Speaker 3: that's what we're gonna be looking for over the next week,
Speaker 3: because we're gonna be looking very closely.
Speaker 1: They better be ready to play starting on Friday. Those
Speaker 1: seven games that you're about to play, you better be
Speaker 1: ready to play because if you roll over and it
Speaker 1: looks like the Miami trip or it looks like the
Speaker 1: Florida Trip in general, yeah.
Speaker 2: We could be talking about a team that's just cooked.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 3: We got a fantastic conversation with Joe Doyle about the
Speaker 3: Mariners draft class that we'll get to here in just
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Speaker 3: marine Layer. So we got to see Aceries in person
Speaker 3: today at the ballpark. As of recording on Tuesday, Joe
Speaker 3: has gotten to see him quite a bit more over
Speaker 3: the course of his college career and has a really
Speaker 3: fun breakdown on him and some of the other fun
Speaker 3: guys in this Mariner's Draft class.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fun conversation and we love to have
Speaker 1: Joe on at this time of the year because he
Speaker 1: breaks down the draft as well as just about anybody,
Speaker 1: and he does a great job with this class. We
Speaker 1: talk about the overall themes of the draft, the overall
Speaker 1: themes of the Mariners class. We get into the specifics
Speaker 1: of some of the players and you're gonna learn a
Speaker 1: lot about these guys and Joe's gonna really do a
Speaker 1: nice breakdown of a bunch of the guys in this
Speaker 1: draft class for you to have your good knowledge on
Speaker 1: guys that could really be a big pieces in the
Speaker 1: farm system moving forward. So it was a great conversation.
Speaker 1: It's always fun to have them on with that. We
Speaker 1: won't keep you guys any longer. Let's get you to
Speaker 1: the interview with Joe Doyle.
Speaker 3: All right, we've got our friend and recurring guest, Joe
Speaker 3: Doyle on with us, the founder of the Overslot. Joe,
Speaker 3: thanks for taking some time to join us. You were
Speaker 3: running around Philadelphia during the MOB Draft this past week,
Speaker 3: just like we were. How was it?
Speaker 5: Philadelphia was cool? Honestly, Philadelphia surprised me. I really liked
Speaker 5: it as a city. There was a lot of energy
Speaker 5: in Philadelphia, both outside of the park and you know,
Speaker 5: for the miles extending outside of it. I thought the
Speaker 5: draft was sick. The ballroom was really cool. The Futures game,
Speaker 5: the sandlot thing during the All Star Game was one
Speaker 5: of the coolest things. I wasn't there for the All
Speaker 5: Star Game itself, but that was one of the coolest
Speaker 5: things that I've seen them do on an All Star
Speaker 5: game in a long time. I thought Philadelphia served, you know,
Speaker 5: served court really well. They put together a cool event,
Speaker 5: and it was a good city for the All Star weekend.
Speaker 3: It was nice having everything close together. We've had this conversation,
Speaker 3: I think years in a row now about the setups
Speaker 3: at all these different locations, and I'm really glad that
Speaker 3: Philly had things where they work. So I honestly thought
Speaker 3: it worked really well. Okay, so I think I've asked
Speaker 3: you this question a couple of years in a row
Speaker 3: when it comes to the Mariner's draft. Is we'll try
Speaker 3: and dive in on the first few picks and then
Speaker 3: ask you about some other specific guys maybe later on,
Speaker 3: or some trends that the Mariners have in this draft class.
Speaker 3: But I'm want to start with this. What is the
Speaker 3: theme of this Mariner's draft that they just pulled off.
Speaker 5: That's a tough question. The theme, I don't know, you know.
Speaker 5: It feels to me like Seattle was trying to figure
Speaker 5: out the new landscape of nil and college baseball. You
Speaker 5: don't see Seattle go college bat hunting in what four
Speaker 5: through ten very often. I think that was extremely rare.
Speaker 5: I think the team was dealing with budgetary constraints that
Speaker 5: they're not used to dealing with as it pertains to
Speaker 5: college arms that are getting money and il deals at
Speaker 5: big schools. I don't know if there was a theme,
Speaker 5: to be honest, I think there was some unique traits
Speaker 5: with the pitchers after round eleven. But yeah, you know,
Speaker 5: I don't know. This was just a unique year because
Speaker 5: this is the least amount of money that Seattle has
Speaker 5: had to play with in the draft since you know,
Speaker 5: you and I and Lyle, the three of us have
Speaker 5: been podcasting, So in some ways it was uncharted waters.
Speaker 1: So dive in, dive into that for us a little
Speaker 1: bit more. Why did they have less money this year
Speaker 1: than in years past?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well they you know, they're they're given a competitive
Speaker 5: balance b pick every other year. They're given a competitive
Speaker 5: balance a pick every other year besides those years, and
Speaker 5: this year they elected to trade that competitive balance be
Speaker 5: pick in the Brendan Donovan deal. That cuts off, you know,
Speaker 5: a million bucks from what you can spend in the draft.
Speaker 5: You know, they're picking twenty fourth this year. That's the
Speaker 5: lowest that they've picked in I don't know how many years,
Speaker 5: a very very long time. So that gives you less
Speaker 5: money to work with, and just in general, this was
Speaker 5: a year in the draft that didn't have very many
Speaker 5: up the middle high school talents, shortstops, second basement center
Speaker 5: fielders that fit the MO and the philosophy of the
Speaker 5: type of players that Seattle likes to target in the draft.
Speaker 5: So I think all of those contributing factors made this
Speaker 5: draft feel a lot different than most of the drafts
Speaker 5: that we can remember, going back to, you know, twenty
Speaker 5: twenty three, twenty twenty two, and so I expect that
Speaker 5: this is going to be a one year kind of
Speaker 5: blipping the radar and that they get back to being
Speaker 5: a little bit more aggressive with up the middle upside
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 3: Talk about some of those negotiations that the Mariners are
Speaker 3: battling with against schools with a lot of nil money,
Speaker 3: Like where does that really come to play? And could
Speaker 3: you give like an example of player X getting this
Speaker 3: amount from the Mariners, but then the school is going
Speaker 3: to come back and offer him this much.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think the perfect example is whyat Queen,
Speaker 5: you know, he's a fourth year senior at Oregon State,
Speaker 5: eleventh rounder pick number three hundred and forty in the draft.
Speaker 5: He was not a starting pitcher for the Beavers this year,
Speaker 5: and that player, ordinarily every other year had would have
Speaker 5: no leverage. That player would be offered one hundred and
Speaker 5: fifty thousand dollars and they would be happy to take it.
Speaker 5: They would get an organization spot, they would get a
Speaker 5: path into professional baseball. But the way that it works
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty six is Wyatt Queen still has one
Speaker 5: year of eligibility left. Seattle has to pay I don't
Speaker 5: know what the final number ended up being two hundred
Speaker 5: and seventy two hundred and seventy five K to get
Speaker 5: him one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars overage just
Speaker 5: to sign a college senior that was pitching out of
Speaker 5: the bullpen in a non power for conference Corvallis. That's
Speaker 5: just a perfect example of the type of you know,
Speaker 5: maneuvering that is now necessary because you can either give
Speaker 5: Wyat Queen two hundred and seventy five K, or Wyat
Speaker 5: Queen can probably get eighty to one hundred K from
Speaker 5: some school in twenty twenty seven, go back, you know,
Speaker 5: be draft eligible again in twenty twenty seven, perhaps get
Speaker 5: a shot to start in twenty twenty seven and make
Speaker 5: more money. So you're gonna see that with all of
Speaker 5: the guys that they had to overpay. Ryan Win was
Speaker 5: a part time player for much of the season at
Speaker 5: the University of Georgia, doesn't necessarily have a carrying tool,
Speaker 5: can play all over the field, has some swing and
Speaker 5: missing his game. They have to overpay that player in
Speaker 5: the seventh round in order to get them because he
Speaker 5: could have gone back to Georgia and gotten a mint.
Speaker 5: So it's just it's a difficult, you know, terrain to maneuver,
Speaker 5: especially when you have limited funds. And I think that's
Speaker 5: why you didn't see Seattle spend a ton of money
Speaker 5: on one player. They just kind of went overslot a
Speaker 5: little bit with five different players to make it work.
Speaker 1: Before we start to get into the specifics of some
Speaker 1: of the players and we stay on the more topic
Speaker 1: of the overall themes for a.
Speaker 2: Minute, let me ask you this.
Speaker 1: Do you think it was a strategy of the Mariners
Speaker 1: to essentially go with a no high school player's draft
Speaker 1: for the most part, or do you think that was
Speaker 1: just how the board shook out this year.
Speaker 5: I think it's both. I know that's a little bit
Speaker 5: of a hedge, but I do think it's both. I
Speaker 5: don't think there was a high school player available to
Speaker 5: them at sixty five that financially made sense. Like I'm
Speaker 5: sure they would have loved Dominic Santarelli for you know,
Speaker 5: two million dollars at pick sixty five, but you know
Speaker 5: that he wasn't going to accept two million dollars. And
Speaker 5: it also, when you do that, punts your fourth, your fifth,
Speaker 5: your sixth round pick. And this is an organization that
Speaker 5: has done well in the depth side of the draft.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 5: I know that they punted their draft in twenty twenty
Speaker 5: four to acquire Ryan Sloan, and they could have done
Speaker 5: that this year. But they also had a lot more
Speaker 5: money to play with when it was Ryan Sloan. So
Speaker 5: I think the answer is just yes, I don't think
Speaker 5: the talent was there, and I don't think they had
Speaker 5: the money to be able to pull off something like that.
Speaker 3: Let's start with their first pick, when they picked Ace
Speaker 3: Reese in the first round. Why did they like him
Speaker 3: so much?
Speaker 5: You know, Ace rees never came up in conversations that
Speaker 5: I had with the team, that I had with folks
Speaker 5: in the front office. I don't know if it was
Speaker 5: a combination of I don't know if it was that
Speaker 5: they liked him and didn't expect him to be there,
Speaker 5: or if it was every other player that they had
Speaker 5: circled with that number twenty four pick just went ahead
Speaker 5: of them. I know the team really liked Logan Hughes.
Speaker 5: I know the team really liked Kaid Townsend and Cameron Fluky,
Speaker 5: and I think the team liked Taylor Rabe a good amount.
Speaker 5: But the Royals were right behind them and they were
Speaker 5: willing to pony up a full slot deal at pick
Speaker 5: what thirty, So I just you know, I think Seattle
Speaker 5: was delta hand where they couldn't counter other team's offers
Speaker 5: to players. And also most of the players that they
Speaker 5: wanted went right before the number twenty four picks, So
Speaker 5: you know, I don't think Ace Reese is ordinarily the
Speaker 5: type of player that Seattle would go for. But that
Speaker 5: being said, I do think there's a lot to like
Speaker 5: about Ace rees and I think there's a reason that
Speaker 5: Seattle picked him.
Speaker 3: They've never I think under Jerry to Poto picked like
Speaker 3: a power forward, like a like power focused corner infielder
Speaker 3: with a pick that high, I honestly can't even think
Speaker 3: of them doing it with any of their first handful
Speaker 3: of picks and a draft. Do I have that right?
Speaker 5: I can't think of the last player with this amount
Speaker 5: of swing and miss and this amount of chase that
Speaker 5: Seattle has taken in the top two rounds of any
Speaker 5: draft in the last eight or nine drafts. Even if
Speaker 5: you go to the second round, most of the players
Speaker 5: that they had taken that have some of those similar characteristics.
Speaker 5: Maybe they do swing and miss a bunch, but they're like,
Speaker 5: you know, fabulous runners that this this guy, Ace Rees
Speaker 5: isn't a great athlete. He's not a great quote unquote
Speaker 5: hit tool guy. This is a guy that hits the
Speaker 5: ball very, very hard when he hits it. Now, I've
Speaker 5: said this on other podcasts. I think the raw power
Speaker 5: of Aceries is being overblown a bit. I think it's
Speaker 5: more above average encroaching on plus if he gets a
Speaker 5: little bit stronger. I just think this guy knows how
Speaker 5: to find the fat part of the bat and lift
Speaker 5: and pull the ball better than just about anybody in
Speaker 5: the country. And so because of that, I've I've likened
Speaker 5: him to like a thirty three year old version of
Speaker 5: Kyle Seger, but a thirty three year old version of
Speaker 5: Kyle Seger is not what the Seattle Mariners have targeted
Speaker 5: early in drafts, going back to the very beginning of
Speaker 5: the Jerry Depoto era.
Speaker 1: If Luke Rayley a decent example, not in terms of
Speaker 1: outfielder versus infielder, but just in terms of a potential
Speaker 1: platoon left handed hitting bat with some power and swinging
Speaker 1: this well.
Speaker 5: So I mean maybe offensively you could compare it to
Speaker 5: that Luke Rayley is. He's a sneaky above average runner,
Speaker 5: like he can really get down the line. It's it's
Speaker 5: ugly in the field, like he's not a good instinctual athlete,
Speaker 5: but from a just a swing and miss batted ball
Speaker 5: outcomes perspective at the plate. Yeah, Now that being said,
Speaker 5: if Luke Rayley had the ability to play third base
Speaker 5: at an average level, I think we'd all feel a
Speaker 5: little bit differently about what Luke Rayley is and how
Speaker 5: valuable Luke Raley is. But because he's a you know,
Speaker 5: a below average corner outfielder, you know, he always leaves
Speaker 5: something to be desired. So I really do think, like
Speaker 5: the very end of Kyle Seeger's career, where he wasn't
Speaker 5: a you know, decorated gold glove third baseman, and or
Speaker 5: or maybe you just look at au heeneos Waraz and
Speaker 5: you say Ace Reese is a left handed version of
Speaker 5: auhneios Warrez. Like, I think there's a universe where that
Speaker 5: comp works as well.
Speaker 3: Does Ace Rees not like fill a hole that the
Speaker 3: Murders have in their farm system though, because they just
Speaker 3: don't have a lot of like designated corner infielders in
Speaker 3: the high A to double A range, which I feel
Speaker 3: like by this time next year is going to be
Speaker 3: exactly what Ace Rees is.
Speaker 5: I think if if Ace Reese is a third baseman
Speaker 5: and Seattle is going to take their time, they're going
Speaker 5: to be very diligent with making sure that he is
Speaker 5: getting all the development he needs at third base, I
Speaker 5: think he does fill a hole. I don't. I don't
Speaker 5: see a future third baseman in the Mariners farm system.
Speaker 5: Nor do I see a third baseman, you know, playing
Speaker 5: for the Mariners right now. Maybe it's Brendan Donovan in
Speaker 5: twenty twenty seven, but we saw how that looked like
Speaker 5: that does need some work.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 5: Look, I don't think Seattle has a whole lot of
Speaker 5: power in their in their farm system, at least on
Speaker 5: the infield anymore either. So I think this certainly maakes
Speaker 5: questions as to whether Felning Celestin is going to be
Speaker 5: dangled as trade bait. That's the guy right now that
Speaker 5: I'm looking at going. I don't know where you're going
Speaker 5: to find a spot for Felnin Celestin, especially since he's
Speaker 5: showing that he can really hit. So the risk with
Speaker 5: ace Rees is the redundancy if he does become a
Speaker 5: first baseman, if he does become a corner outfielder, well,
Speaker 5: then he's fighting with Naylor and Canzone and Raley and
Speaker 5: perhaps Lazar Romntes for the same role in the organization
Speaker 5: at the highest level. So they the Seattle Mariners, really
Speaker 5: need ace Rees to be a third baseman.
Speaker 1: Not to get two side tracked here, but just since
Speaker 1: you brought him up and you're talking about third baseman
Speaker 1: or potential third basement in the system, could Felny not
Speaker 1: play third?
Speaker 2: Does he not have the tool set for it?
Speaker 5: I think he does. We've just never really seen it, right,
Speaker 5: I think Felnan I've gone up and watched him a
Speaker 5: few times this year. I just think that the game
Speaker 5: gets moving too fast on him. His feet get out
Speaker 5: from under him. His arm accuracy is kind of all
Speaker 5: over the place sometimes. I actually still think he's a
Speaker 5: good enough, good enough athlete to play the shortstop position.
Speaker 5: He is just taking a long time to kind of
Speaker 5: get the fundamentals down, to get the footwork down, to
Speaker 5: make sure that you're in a throwing position once you've
Speaker 5: collected yourself every time. So you know, there's certainly questions
Speaker 5: on whether or not he can play shortstop. I think
Speaker 5: he could probably play second base if they gave him
Speaker 5: the opportunity to, but third base. I mean, he's a
Speaker 5: good enough athlete. He's got a good first step, he's
Speaker 5: got the arm strength. It's just a matter of can
Speaker 5: he put the ball on the first baseman. Slowed the
Speaker 5: game down a little bit, and admittedly that's taking longer
Speaker 5: than I was expecting for him.
Speaker 1: I guess I just asked because your middle endfield's pretty
Speaker 1: crowded for the next decade. I mean, your shortstop's got
Speaker 1: an eight year deal, and Cole Young's been a three
Speaker 1: win second baseman, So just logistically about potential open positions
Speaker 1: when Felning eventually is ready. That's why I look at
Speaker 1: third base and said, oh, maybe.
Speaker 5: I'll say this too, like I think the Feling Celestin
Speaker 5: power conversation is perhaps a little bloated in the public space,
Speaker 5: like the exit velocities are fringy to average. I know,
Speaker 5: he's got what eight, nine, ten home runs this year,
Speaker 5: like he's hitting the ball out of Funko field. But Lyle,
Speaker 5: you could hit the ball out of Funko field. I
Speaker 5: don't know if TJ and I could, But Lyle, you could.
Speaker 3: Hit the ball out of funk field.
Speaker 5: Like Lyle, you might. You might be able to hit
Speaker 5: I five. TJ and I aren't doing it, and TJ
Speaker 5: and I or we're on the same we're on the
Speaker 5: same levels as Felnian Celestion. So I think I'll put
Speaker 5: it this way. When Celestin arrives to Arkansas this year,
Speaker 5: let's say he plays two and a half more months
Speaker 5: at Arkansas, two more months at Arkansas, I would be
Speaker 5: surprised if he hits more than five or six homers
Speaker 5: in Arkansas over the next two months. Happy to be surprised.
Speaker 5: But he's not a power guy. He's more of a
Speaker 5: bat to ball merchant.
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Speaker 1: Last ace Ree's question for you, and then we can
Speaker 1: talk about a couple other guys. But you alluded to
Speaker 1: it a minute ago when you were talking about them,
Speaker 1: But do you feel like they had to pivot off
Speaker 1: their original plan of their pick a little bit? Because,
Speaker 1: like you, it did feel like they liked some of
Speaker 1: those college arms that they liked Fluky and they liked Townsend,
Speaker 1: and then those two went the two picks right before
Speaker 1: they were set to select. Do you think it was
Speaker 1: a bit of a pivot, especially because you were saying
Speaker 1: you hadn't heard his name come up much.
Speaker 5: I think it was a pivot. You know, one thing
Speaker 5: that we at least I can't remember hearing Scott Hunter
Speaker 5: say this. I haven't heard the front office say, you know,
Speaker 5: we didn't expect this caliber of player to land in
Speaker 5: our lap at twenty four, like they've kind of said,
Speaker 5: you know, some of the pr speak and in terms
Speaker 5: of that. But I don't know if you guys remember this,
Speaker 5: but like when when Kyle Lewis fell into their lap
Speaker 5: at pick thirteen or whenever that was ten ten, I
Speaker 5: think it was eleven, Yeah, right in that range when
Speaker 5: he went when he fell into their lap, it was
Speaker 5: one of those just like, yeah, we deviated from what
Speaker 5: we were going to do because we could not believe
Speaker 5: he was there. Same with like George Kirby. We don't
Speaker 5: know why other teams weren't on this, Like people were
Speaker 5: all like the scouting staff, the front office, they were
Speaker 5: effusive about like how did this happen? Like we're just
Speaker 5: so stunned this player was able to get to us.
Speaker 5: I haven't heard that same level of charisma and energy
Speaker 5: surrounding a series. It's not to say that they don't
Speaker 5: like him. I want to make sure that that's clear
Speaker 5: They certainly like him, but I don't think the team
Speaker 5: had planned for ace Rees being Option one A. They
Speaker 5: probably thought he was going to go before them, but
Speaker 5: that doesn't mean that they were also a fan of
Speaker 5: his game. I just think he was what was there
Speaker 5: for them at twenty four. And you know, you can
Speaker 5: say this about ace Rees when you're picking at pick
Speaker 5: twenty four, you still need to get a guy that
Speaker 5: has carrying tools, a guy that has a path to
Speaker 5: the big leagues with a specific way he plays the game.
Speaker 5: Ace Rees has game power that plays in Major League Baseball,
Speaker 5: and so for that you have to applaud what they
Speaker 5: were able to acquire.
Speaker 3: Let's move on to their second pick in LSU outfielder
Speaker 3: Jake Brown. If ace Reese doesn't have quite as much
Speaker 3: ceiling as the Mariors would usually target in the first round,
Speaker 3: it does seem like there's a little bit more projectability
Speaker 3: for Jake Brown. What should Mariners fans look for from him?
Speaker 5: Yeah, like Jake Brown was a two way player. He
Speaker 5: was a left handed pitcher for LSU in twenty twenty
Speaker 5: four and twenty twenty five, gave up took to being
Speaker 5: a hitter full time in twenty twenty six was off
Speaker 5: to a very very good start in the year, cooled
Speaker 5: off a little bit in April, and then he broke
Speaker 5: his hammet bone, ending his season. Tons of tools. He's
Speaker 5: a right fielder by nature, but he's a seventy grade
Speaker 5: straight line runner. He can really burn down the base paths.
Speaker 5: There's some stiffness in his mobility. I might be getting
Speaker 5: to the into the weeds here, but there's some stiffness
Speaker 5: in the way that he moves that kind of holds
Speaker 5: back his athleticism and it holds back his ability to
Speaker 5: really showcase what a good athlete he is. So I
Speaker 5: think what Seattle is going to end up doing in
Speaker 5: you know, high performance camp and over the winter and
Speaker 5: going into twenty twenty seven, they're going to work to
Speaker 5: unlock some of that athleticism and make it show up
Speaker 5: in the field. They're gonna work with him on his
Speaker 5: swing and his lower half. His lower half is all
Speaker 5: over the place. It loses he SAPs out some of
Speaker 5: his row power with the way that he moves in
Speaker 5: the dish or at the dish. So I think, you know,
Speaker 5: in the same way, in the same conversations we were
Speaker 5: having about Johnny Farmelo, in twenty twenty three, where oh
Speaker 5: it's a different swing every time, and oh he's a
Speaker 5: swing tinker and he's you know, big, but he's really fast.
Speaker 5: Like I think that's the Jake Brown conversation. He's probably
Speaker 5: going to look like a different version of himself at
Speaker 5: opening day twenty twenty seven than what you're seeing on
Speaker 5: highlight clips in twenty twenty six. I'm excited about Jake Brown.
Speaker 5: He's a really good dude. I've talked to him, I've
Speaker 5: gotten to know him a little bit. Tons of tools,
Speaker 5: a gifted hitter that just hasn't had the runway to
Speaker 5: put it all together in one season so far.
Speaker 1: Is he the type of dude who you could really
Speaker 1: just see explode as you give him two years in
Speaker 1: the system where you could look back and say, the
Speaker 1: Mariners really really developed this guy. They took the raw
Speaker 1: tools developed them. And to your point about Farmelo, we've
Speaker 1: seen like when he's at his best, that's a really
Speaker 1: really fun player to dream on. Is it a similar
Speaker 1: kind of situation with Brown?
Speaker 5: Yeah, And Jake Brown is a better naturally gifted, pure
Speaker 5: hitter than Johnny Farmelo ever, was like, Jake Brown isn't
Speaker 5: going to strike out a whole bunch. He's going to
Speaker 5: take his walks, He's going to be more selective. There's
Speaker 5: holes in his swing, without question. But I also don't
Speaker 5: think he's had the runway to really develop himself as
Speaker 5: a hitter. So, you know, do I think he's going
Speaker 5: to explode and become this like top fifty prospect in
Speaker 5: the sport. I don't know if he's quite to that level,
Speaker 5: but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Jake Brown
Speaker 5: ended up as a top one hundred prospect in the
Speaker 5: sport and just comes up as one of the more,
Speaker 5: you know, steady strong like Jake Frayley. Honestly just a
Speaker 5: very steady, good hitter, can play all three outfield positions,
Speaker 5: can really burn has some things that you wish were
Speaker 5: a little bit more, you know, refined in his game,
Speaker 5: but just a good big leaguer. And ironically, I think
Speaker 5: Jake Freiley was an LSU outfielder too.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, yeah, yes he was. What about Nathan Taylor
Speaker 3: out of Cincinnati in the third round there seems to
Speaker 3: be speaking of projectability. I mean, he's got the extension,
Speaker 3: he's got a really good slider that he showcased in college,
Speaker 3: the Maritors say they want to use his fast a
Speaker 3: lot more. What's the profile of Nathan Taylor.
Speaker 5: I think they're going to tinker with the fastball. I
Speaker 5: think they're gonna try and get better fastball shapes out
Speaker 5: of him. Right now, it's just kind of an in between,
Speaker 5: you know, ride and tail fastball that doesn't do either
Speaker 5: shape too dramatic, So it's kind of a flat fastball,
Speaker 5: is what I'm trying to say. But I think the
Speaker 5: issue with Nathan Taylor is they're going to get him
Speaker 5: moving better. He's a great extender, he's a good athlete,
Speaker 5: ninety two to ninety four up to ninety six and
Speaker 5: a half. I would expect they're going to try and
Speaker 5: do the whole George Kirby thing where you get him
Speaker 5: into gas camp, you work with him for a winner,
Speaker 5: maybe you work with him for two winners, and then
Speaker 5: we look opening day twenty twenty eight, he's, you know,
Speaker 5: right on the precipice of you know, maybe pitching for
Speaker 5: the Rainiers, and all of a sudden he's ninety four
Speaker 5: to ninety six, touching ninety eight here and there, and
Speaker 5: he's just a very very solid number four starter. That
Speaker 5: is carried by that slider. The slider is obviously the
Speaker 5: thing that is going to have Seattle pretty excited. So
Speaker 5: definitive starting pitching prospect, tons of strikes, four pitches, excellent mover,
Speaker 5: just needs a bit of tinkering and added velocity with
Speaker 5: the fastball to become a better version of himself.
Speaker 2: Is there a sleeper in this draft that you really like?
Speaker 1: Or when I say sleeper, somebody that the Mariners took
Speaker 1: in the later rounds that really popped to you. I
Speaker 1: think I've used this example with you the last couple
Speaker 1: of years because I think the first time I asked
Speaker 1: you this question, you hit the nail right on the
Speaker 1: head because it was twenty twenty three's draft and you said,
Speaker 1: the two sleepers I really like are Brody Hopkins and
Speaker 1: Logan Evans, And you totally hit the nail on the
Speaker 1: head with those. So is there guys in this draft
Speaker 1: that maybe aren't to the caliber of those two, but
Speaker 1: guys that the Mariners took later on? And you say,
Speaker 1: circle that guy's name in a couple of years.
Speaker 5: So for me, I think it's probably Drew Whalen. You know,
Speaker 5: Drew Whalen was before he got hurt in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 5: he was up to ninety six, had a sinking fastball
Speaker 5: with good spin rates. He could really shape the cutter,
Speaker 5: could really shape the curveball, and the splitter can move
Speaker 5: the ball east and west and can really do some
Speaker 5: things from kind of an unorthodox low slot, kind of
Speaker 5: that low three quarter slot. I would expect that he
Speaker 5: is probably not going to see affiliated ball until like
Speaker 5: May of twenty twenty seven. Like we probably don't see
Speaker 5: him right out of the gate in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 5: But Drew Whalen is a guy that has my attention.
Speaker 5: And then the other one is probably whyat Queen the
Speaker 5: eleventh rounder at Oregon State, I'm just interested to hear
Speaker 5: whether or not they try a reliever to starter conversion.
Speaker 5: I've watched him pitch three and a third at times.
Speaker 5: I've watched him rack up fifty plus pitches at times.
Speaker 5: It's a really really gross slider and the fastball is
Speaker 5: just like ninety to ninety two most days. But you know,
Speaker 5: a guy like that, could, you know, can seattle think
Speaker 5: their teeth into him and perhaps turn him into a starter,
Speaker 5: even if it's a number five, even if it's trade bait.
Speaker 5: Drew Whalen and wyat Queen would be my answers.
Speaker 3: What about these three SEC guys they picked from rounds
Speaker 3: five to seven like they win as looking at their draft,
Speaker 3: I mean, they did go pretty heavy into the SEC.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering if there's any specific thing they're seeing in
Speaker 3: these three guys that are like, all right, this is
Speaker 3: working out for us. We can add this to our system.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so relatively certain that the Hayden Yost pick is
Speaker 5: more of a you know, regional scout, area scout type pick,
Speaker 5: like has a little bit of size, can run, it's
Speaker 5: a nice left handed swing, like it looks great on film.
Speaker 5: The results have never really been there for Hayden Yost.
Speaker 5: His brother was a first rounder in twenty twenty five
Speaker 5: for the Tigers. I think he's a potential center fielder
Speaker 5: in Seattle, probably ends up in left field. I didn't
Speaker 5: really understand the Ryan Winn pick. If I'm being completely transparent,
Speaker 5: and I've said this elsewhere for me, probably not the
Speaker 5: type of value that I would have invested in in
Speaker 5: the seventh round overslot. But like I've said, this is
Speaker 5: the reason that they don't pay me for this sort
Speaker 5: of thing, Right, And then Henry Ford is just I
Speaker 5: think he's Ryan Heally. Like, you know, you try to
Speaker 5: put Ryan Healey at third base, It's just okay, you
Speaker 5: can put him there in a pinch, you know, Ryan
Speaker 5: Healey ended up at first base. It's big raw power
Speaker 5: to the pull side. It's a heavy barrel, can really
Speaker 5: get into a baseball. But there's a good amount of
Speaker 5: swing and miss. There's a good amount of swinging and
Speaker 5: missing at sliders outside of the zone, but kind of
Speaker 5: a three true outcome type of a slugger that for me,
Speaker 5: I think ends up at first base, although you could
Speaker 5: probably hide him in left field or right field as
Speaker 5: a fourth outfielder if you need to.
Speaker 2: So do you like the class overall?
Speaker 5: I am lukewarm on the class. I think because Seattle
Speaker 5: didn't have the comp B pick, because they picked twenty fourth,
Speaker 5: because they didn't have a ton of money. Obviously, your
Speaker 5: expectations relative to drafts of the last five or six
Speaker 5: years need to be brought down a little bit. And
Speaker 5: because of the new nil era where guys are making
Speaker 5: a lot more money, and you know, a post tenh
Speaker 5: round or Day three draft pick is no longer just
Speaker 5: a a one hundred and fifty thousand dollars sign like
Speaker 5: you've got to overpay him to get him. I thought
Speaker 5: that some of the players that they picked were outside
Speaker 5: of their ordinary philosophy, and they were outside of what
Speaker 5: they do well developmentally. But I also thought it was
Speaker 5: a they still grabbed some players that fit the traits
Speaker 5: on the mound. I just I wish Seattle would have
Speaker 5: gone for more pitchers in rounds four through ten. To
Speaker 5: be totally honest with you, So I liked their draft.
Speaker 5: I didn't love their draft. We'll see how it looks
Speaker 5: in a few years, but all things considered, I gave
Speaker 5: it a B minus.
Speaker 3: Last thing for me, Joe, if you're gonna make a prediction,
Speaker 3: who's gonna be the fastest riser in this class, who's
Speaker 3: it gonna be?
Speaker 5: I mean, I think if if Wyatt Queen is a reliever,
Speaker 5: I think Wya Queen is gonna be the first to
Speaker 5: the big leagues. I think he could see Seattle as
Speaker 5: early as late twenty twenty seven, early twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 5: The slider is that good, especially if he can find
Speaker 5: any Velt. The reason I don't think the top of
Speaker 5: this draft is going to move very quickly is Ace
Speaker 5: Reese needs time, I mean tons of seasoning at third base.
Speaker 5: Jake Brown needs time, he needs biomechanical fixes, he needs
Speaker 5: you know. These are I'll put the word project on
Speaker 5: these guys. These are two projects that Seattle's going to
Speaker 5: really try and get the most out of. You know,
Speaker 5: maybe Nathan Taylor finds velocity immediately this winter. If that's
Speaker 5: the case, he would move quickly. So I think, you know,
Speaker 5: I think Wyat Queen is the most likely to move quickly.
Speaker 5: I think Trevor lucas their fourth rounder because of his versatility,
Speaker 5: because of his pitch selection skills, his bat to ball skills,
Speaker 5: the you know, semi interesting power numbers under the hood.
Speaker 5: I think he could move relatively quickly as well, but
Speaker 5: not in a full time, permanent starter role, more in
Speaker 5: a like Abraham Toro type of he can play all
Speaker 5: the different spots of the infield. He can play perhaps
Speaker 5: left field. I think that's the guy that you should
Speaker 5: look at and go, there's a chance we see this guy,
Speaker 5: you know, in Tacoma by the end of twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 3: So glad we got to name drop Abe Toro as
Speaker 3: we wrap this one up.
Speaker 5: I do it for you guys, ye, I do get
Speaker 5: you guys. I real, I was on a little notepad.
Speaker 5: I go make sure to mention Abraham Torres Sile's favorite player.
Speaker 2: No, no, you got to you gotta flip.
Speaker 3: It's my favorite player.
Speaker 5: TJ's favorite player, Lyle, who's your favorite player? I've got
Speaker 5: more notepads?
Speaker 1: Oh man, yeah, I mean TJ. That's his least favorite
Speaker 1: Mariner of all time?
Speaker 2: H what who's mine? Toughi's up there.
Speaker 1: That was a tough, tough watch and he was an
Speaker 1: ASU guy, so it's in some way that hurts to say.
Speaker 1: But man, those handful of games that he played in
Speaker 1: Seattle back in seventeen, it was.
Speaker 2: Like, what are we doing?
Speaker 5: Was was your that's your nightmare?
Speaker 2: Huh?
Speaker 5: I think there's got to be someone that has you
Speaker 5: more scorn than Toughy Gossowitch. He bet he played like
Speaker 5: twenty games.
Speaker 1: It was twenty of the worst games you'd ever watch.
Speaker 1: But there's anybody more recent? I feel like, I mean,
Speaker 1: help me out to you, Dare there are guys that
Speaker 1: I'm not thinking of.
Speaker 5: Or anything like that?
Speaker 1: Oh well yeah, if you want to go back that far,
Speaker 1: for sure, Sean Figgins it's probably him.
Speaker 3: But yeah, recent examples. See Usually Lyle's more optimistic about
Speaker 3: players than I hate on them, So that's usually that dynamic.
Speaker 5: There's a tough, tough day to be toughy ghosts witch man.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like Dylan Moore. Lyle for the longest
Speaker 3: time was the world's biggest Dylan Moore fan, and I
Speaker 3: was just like, eh.
Speaker 2: I like this game for a long time.
Speaker 5: Now like his game too. You gotta you gotta evaluate
Speaker 5: Dylan Moore in terms of what he should be for
Speaker 5: a team.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: If you're evaluating him as a five hundred and fifty
Speaker 5: play appearance starter, that's a Mariners problem and probably a problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean listen when he was ops ing one against
Speaker 1: lefties for a three month stretch last year, Like that's
Speaker 1: when he lost me. It's like, all right, this is over.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this has been great. We always appreciate you
Speaker 3: taking some time to join us and look forward to
Speaker 3: having you back on again as our most reoccurring guest
Speaker 3: and your first guest and in our first case. Yes,
Speaker 3: it's all right.
Speaker 5: Catch you boys.
Speaker 2: Always fun to sit down with.
Speaker 3: Joe.
Speaker 1: Hopefully after that conversation, you guys have some more knowledge
Speaker 1: on Ace Reese on Jake Brown on Nathan Taylor and
Speaker 1: the overall themes of the Mariner's Draft class, because there's
Speaker 1: a lot there.
Speaker 2: It's an interesting class.
Speaker 1: It's different than most of the classes, but Joe tells
Speaker 1: you why and why it was different and what to
Speaker 1: expect out of these guys, and it'll be really interesting
Speaker 1: to see how.
Speaker 2: These guys progress moving forward.
Speaker 1: With that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of
Speaker 1: the Marine Layer Podcast.
Speaker 2: You guys know the drill.
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Speaker 2: That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys
Speaker 2: for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.