Speaker 1: A quick note for our listeners. This episode contains some
Speaker 1: adult themes and language which may not be suitable for children.
Speaker 1: Comedy is noble. You're just trying to make somebody laugh,
Speaker 1: which is making them breathe deeper, and you want to
Speaker 1: surprise them with these thoughts. That's what comedy is is
Speaker 1: just take a surprise. It's like a let me show
Speaker 1: you a way that a mind can work that's not
Speaker 1: going to be yours. And that's really what comedy is
Speaker 1: at base level, and part of that is being offended.
Speaker 1: My name is Jeffers Z Carrien and you're listening to
Speaker 1: four Courses with Jeffers Zi Carrion from I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and four Courses, I'll be taking you along for the
Speaker 1: ride while I talk with the top talent of our time.
Speaker 1: In each conversation, I focus on four different areas from
Speaker 1: my guest life and career, and during those four courses,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna dig deep and uncover new insights and inspirations
Speaker 1: that we can all use to fuel ourselves to push forward.
Speaker 1: My guest is the talented actor, musician, fashion designer, and author.
Speaker 1: She has yearlong fermentation projects bubbling in her basement and
Speaker 1: she's on rolling Stone Magazines list of the fifty best
Speaker 1: stand up comics of all time, and rightfully so, please
Speaker 1: enjoy my surprising conversation with a hilarious, lovely and thoughtful
Speaker 1: Margaret Show. Hi, Hi, Margaret, Welcome for our first course.
Speaker 1: Margaret described some formative stories from her childhood so vividly
Speaker 1: that you can probably smell them through your headphones. Do
Speaker 1: you grab a lot of material from like very early
Speaker 1: in your life or is it just all relevant? Is
Speaker 1: it just all relevant as as you as you make
Speaker 1: it up as the day goes by. How do you
Speaker 1: stay relevant? It's really important to just stay teachable and
Speaker 1: keep learning and keep watching. In society, so amazing at
Speaker 1: how we can communicate with each other now. I mean,
Speaker 1: I remember an era before the internet, so we used
Speaker 1: to actually look at the newspaper for things to do,
Speaker 1: write it down, and if you met a friend, you
Speaker 1: had to go. You couldn't just text them five minutes
Speaker 1: before it was going to begin. It was really a
Speaker 1: different era. So I appreciate all the advances, but they
Speaker 1: also helped me to do my work because then I
Speaker 1: can kind of record everything that I need to do,
Speaker 1: just be more aware. I could take photographs we used
Speaker 1: to have to take the pictures to a drug store.
Speaker 1: Remember that? Do you remember that? I mean I tell
Speaker 1: my daughters, I have three kids young, and I tell
Speaker 1: my daughters, you know, I talked about facting and like
Speaker 1: developing photos and they look at me like, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think they've ever seen a rotary phone. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's kind of fascinating, But you know what, I just
Speaker 1: I'm a child of the sixties and seventies, like kind
Speaker 1: of you are, and we got shipped done. I mean,
Speaker 1: so things happened. Really, I don't I don't feel deprived.
Speaker 1: I feel like like I didn't jam in twenty megabytes
Speaker 1: of information in a day. I maybe got two, but
Speaker 1: I question whether I actually got two more coherent megabytes
Speaker 1: and I had like a story I could tell versus
Speaker 1: like a non story versus snapshot. I feel like, I
Speaker 1: do you feel like there's just a series of snapshots
Speaker 1: and you have to like put it aside, you know,
Speaker 1: because I try to remind it to my youth, and
Speaker 1: it's so hard because I'm trying to live difference. Yes,
Speaker 1: how do you do that? I think part of me
Speaker 1: is sort of I'm a little bit disappointed because I
Speaker 1: don't really remember what my era looked like, so I
Speaker 1: rely on other people's photographs because I didn't take photographs.
Speaker 1: I just wasn't present enough to do that. I mean,
Speaker 1: they exist, but it's not as if I was taking them,
Speaker 1: like now that everybody's recording themselves all the time. So
Speaker 1: it's interesting how I just have my memories to go by.
Speaker 1: Did your parents say photos? Yes, my dad had a cannon.
Speaker 1: He loved it and he would actually develop them himself,
Speaker 1: which is pretty crazy too. So we had like one
Speaker 1: of the in the house and the basement in the
Speaker 1: basement with all of the kimchi jars and go to
Speaker 1: jung Jars and then all the towns so they would
Speaker 1: make all the chongs, and then my grandparents would go
Speaker 1: to the park and forage for mountain herbs and things
Speaker 1: that they would like recognize from being in Korea and
Speaker 1: bring it home. They're protected plants too, we're not supposed
Speaker 1: to take a broun the park. They were just either.
Speaker 1: I know who did the cookie in your house? It
Speaker 1: was my grandparents, UM and my mother and the entire
Speaker 1: extended family. Because everybody was doing a lot of fermenting,
Speaker 1: so you would have a big sort of seasonal kimchi
Speaker 1: thing or whatever vegetables in season, you would go and
Speaker 1: grab a whole bunch of a table and start like
Speaker 1: cleaning Fantastic League bowls, or like you would process shrimp
Speaker 1: or or process breakdown squid, breaking down fish. So that
Speaker 1: was like a very big family thing. And kimchi was
Speaker 1: a very big, big family thing. I mean, now kimchi
Speaker 1: is like mayonnaise now. I mean, it wasn't like I
Speaker 1: just sort of basically was introduced to it maybe fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago. But today, I mean, you know, in the
Speaker 1: menu is kim chi omlet. It's kimchi and kimchi cock
Speaker 1: Till the other day it didn't really work. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna say, it's kind of weird. Yeah that that that
Speaker 1: funk is much better I think in savory food. But
Speaker 1: it was interesting, and I have a a such an affinity.
Speaker 1: I think Korean food is so sophisticated, it's so overlooked,
Speaker 1: and it's It's one of the things I sort of
Speaker 1: like trying on the Food Network to like, we need
Speaker 1: to go here, we need to go here. I keep
Speaker 1: bringing it up and sometimes I get feedback is like, well,
Speaker 1: we want to go there, but We don't think Connie
Speaker 1: and Ohio will get it. I'm like, who cares. It's
Speaker 1: just delicious, simple food, right, people getting around. I think
Speaker 1: they would get it. Yeah, it's really just it's really
Speaker 1: just switching fermentation from dairy to vegetables and like root
Speaker 1: vegetables and cabbage, and I mean you can kimchi fruit
Speaker 1: as well. I think if you made a martini would
Speaker 1: be like a dirty martini. That's what I went. I
Speaker 1: think that makes more sense something with gin or something
Speaker 1: that can handle it. I don't think it really goes well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a weird one. Although we used to actually dip
Speaker 1: a really spicy kimchi in old school seven up as
Speaker 1: part of an sort of a punch on appartif it
Speaker 1: would be a really spicy kimchi that you almost couldn't handle,
Speaker 1: and so we would wash off the first layer of
Speaker 1: the spice in seven up and it made a kind
Speaker 1: of I mean you didn't I mean, I guess you
Speaker 1: could drink the seven up, but what it made it
Speaker 1: It made it mellow the heat and gave it a
Speaker 1: layer of like very kind of corn syrup or something.
Speaker 1: So it's very sweet, but it was it was interesting. Wow,
Speaker 1: so you really have an amazing you love going there
Speaker 1: with food. You I mean, it's like having a base
Speaker 1: on the kimchi. What was that like? Was there the
Speaker 1: smell like come up to from the basement. It was
Speaker 1: so it was like we were storing dead bodies. It was.
Speaker 1: It was very stinky, and you know it was it
Speaker 1: would cause a lot of embarrassed sman when you would
Speaker 1: have like your white friends over. It was just like
Speaker 1: even other Asian people were like, this is way too
Speaker 1: Asian for That's just like we were the most Asian
Speaker 1: people I knew because my grandparents also made medicine. So
Speaker 1: they would get like an old slow cooker and there
Speaker 1: would be like rocks and roots and I don't even
Speaker 1: know shells stuff like that with no liquid and it
Speaker 1: would just heat up for days and then on a
Speaker 1: low setting and then they would just take it out
Speaker 1: and like put it in envelopes and it would be
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like what they're making math, But
Speaker 1: it was like for like tonics for like I don't know,
Speaker 1: any sort of like che I guess if you go
Speaker 1: to like a Chinese or blist, that's what you would get.
Speaker 1: But they were doing it themselves a mom or dad
Speaker 1: cooked the most. My mom cooked the most, but my
Speaker 1: dad are very specific things that he'd want to eat.
Speaker 1: And the biggest thing of the year was instead Francis Go.
Speaker 1: Where I grew up, we had the Dungeness crap Hub.
Speaker 1: So they would go to Fisherman's Wharf and they would
Speaker 1: buy like thirteen dengeness crabs and they would steam them
Speaker 1: on the wharf. So you you would bring home these huge,
Speaker 1: huge crabs and then that are already steamed, that were
Speaker 1: still warm inside the paper package. And then the Buddhan bread,
Speaker 1: which is a sour bread, and have that with kimchi
Speaker 1: and seven up. I love this seven up. I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of ways, which which beverage, which spirit I would use.
Speaker 1: I think I might use like a white rum or
Speaker 1: something like that would make a delicious sort of yeah,
Speaker 1: something that would be good on the rocks with maybe
Speaker 1: a squeeze a line, wouldn't that be cool? Yeah, that
Speaker 1: would be really great with a yeah, with a little
Speaker 1: bit of lime. Then you have a sort of a fusion.
Speaker 1: It's a very Caribbean Korean kind of thing, would be good. Wow. Well,
Speaker 1: we're just making a menu here. I think we should
Speaker 1: like open a restaurant. I'm working on the Johns. The Johns.
Speaker 1: I have dreams that I'm going to actually make the
Speaker 1: ten jung, which is the soybeans. It's like me so,
Speaker 1: but it's a lot funkier and it takes a year,
Speaker 1: and you have to do it with an electric blanket
Speaker 1: and you just boil down like you make a paste
Speaker 1: out of the soybeans, and then you dry them out
Speaker 1: and make bricks the junks. It's too much of a
Speaker 1: process because you have to hang the bricks and air
Speaker 1: dry them and then the fermentation start. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just but it's a year long process. Sometimes there's other
Speaker 1: recipes to take like three years. You need a basement
Speaker 1: and those are the yeah yeah, or a pantry outside
Speaker 1: or a pantry outside. That's like fascinating. I mean, I
Speaker 1: really think that people. I have a lot of people
Speaker 1: in my generation still have parents that cooked and made
Speaker 1: your own things um Arminian and we very much did that.
Speaker 1: We made our own yogurt, our own dried beef, and
Speaker 1: all the stuff that was in the basement also like
Speaker 1: dried you know that stuff in that bag that rolled
Speaker 1: that roll up fruit. We make that on old tarks.
Speaker 1: So good I mean it's just so del shifts. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I go to an Armenian baker here and I get
Speaker 1: the stacks of like dried plums and dried peaches and
Speaker 1: dried just everything pairs. Oh, it's just divine, unbelievable, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: So your parents sound like they had a really incredible
Speaker 1: effect on you. Are you still close? Yes? And but
Speaker 1: they get really frustrated because they are on both on
Speaker 1: low sodium diet. So it's like, very well, that's because
Speaker 1: math for years, I doubt they have been making all
Speaker 1: that meth. So they're I mean, and they're big foodies.
Speaker 1: So it's a very tough thing because the main ingredient,
Speaker 1: I mean, it really is all about salt, you know,
Speaker 1: and and so they really they have to go very bland.
Speaker 1: I mean, they could do a little bit of spice,
Speaker 1: but it's not much without the salt. It's very sad. Oh, gosh,
Speaker 1: I feel bad. I mean, I'll be gosh. Your dad
Speaker 1: he sounds like such a cool guy. I mean he
Speaker 1: went from running an orphanage, I believe in Korea to
Speaker 1: running a boost Oh that my grandfather ran an orphanage,
Speaker 1: and then my father was actually his biological son. So
Speaker 1: that's a very strange identity to be the biological son
Speaker 1: of the guy that reads the orphanage. And so he
Speaker 1: had to do a lot of the labor because he
Speaker 1: was a little bit older. And they're so backwoods. My
Speaker 1: dad and his brother were in trouble, so they had
Speaker 1: to dig the outhouse like overnight because they got like punished.
Speaker 1: So that was their punishment, was dig this outhouse so
Speaker 1: they could be ready. And then they found the body
Speaker 1: of a deserted soldier, so they propped it up inside
Speaker 1: of the outhouse to scare their sister, their adopted sister.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're weakeed at Bernie's. That's the kind of
Speaker 1: like old country comedy that my family's based on, so ridiculous.
Speaker 1: It's very weaked at Bernie's. So did you, I mean,
Speaker 1: I know you're and was a minister. I mean, when
Speaker 1: you're a minister, you're still a minister, right. You don't
Speaker 1: like resign, do you. I mean he's still well, my
Speaker 1: grandfather he wasn't. My grandfather was a minister, and then
Speaker 1: my dad was a he still doesn't some time to time,
Speaker 1: but he was a church pianist, so he plays piano yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's he's like accompanist. He doesn't write music. He's
Speaker 1: not a composer, but he lately likes to play piano.
Speaker 1: Do you sing? Do you sing to him? Because I
Speaker 1: know you're a musician as well. Yes, yes, we have
Speaker 1: done some music together, some spiritual music. I think that
Speaker 1: that's like they're My parents love choir, choral singing. They
Speaker 1: love like Baptist kind of revivalist singing, all the older
Speaker 1: soul music they love. So it's very much part of
Speaker 1: our family to have these big singing parties. It's wonderful.
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine coming to your house. You you got
Speaker 1: the kimchi, welcome, you break out the cocktail, and then
Speaker 1: you have a choir and a sing along. It's so fun.
Speaker 1: One time White Book came over in the seventies because
Speaker 1: they were singing and the food smelled so good. And
Speaker 1: these two beautiful like teenage like hippie like kids. Why
Speaker 1: these white kids with like bell bottoms and flowers in
Speaker 1: their hair walked in and it was all these Korean
Speaker 1: people around the piano, eating and dancing and laughing, and
Speaker 1: these they they're like, we love this. What's happening just
Speaker 1: sounded like so much fun. They're like, oh, this mad
Speaker 1: fun that sounds like, But that's like, that's not really
Speaker 1: growing up at the church. It sounds like it's more
Speaker 1: like a gospel experience versus like growing up in the church.
Speaker 1: So did you go to church every Sunday or did
Speaker 1: you How did that work for you? I did until
Speaker 1: I was probably about fourteen, and then I started doing
Speaker 1: stand up comedy and then I was tired and in
Speaker 1: the morning I was on Sunday, and then I taught
Speaker 1: Sunday school through my early teens. That worked there. So
Speaker 1: I gained like a little bit of sort of area
Speaker 1: within the church because it was mostly just childcare, but
Speaker 1: you know, because my family was part of it, it
Speaker 1: was that that was it. But then I was like
Speaker 1: so tired because I wouldn't get home until like five
Speaker 1: in the morning after doing stand up comedy. So it's
Speaker 1: like I'm not going to church forget. So when you
Speaker 1: think about all those experiences, there's so much like love
Speaker 1: and and like clarity. I mean, having someone cooked for you,
Speaker 1: having something make your own food, having someone sing, having
Speaker 1: someone produced photographs. It's like instant clarity. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: a clarified life. Very you're seeing very grounded because of
Speaker 1: that experience. Am I wrong? Yeah? I think that's right.
Speaker 1: I think it's good. I mean it gives me permission
Speaker 1: to try out different things and do whatever and feel
Speaker 1: like I can enjoy it. If I don't like it,
Speaker 1: I can give it up. There's no there never any
Speaker 1: sort of sense of like boundaries and creativity. Also, my
Speaker 1: family's just they had a gay bookstore and they were
Speaker 1: super churchy and Korean, so that in itself is also
Speaker 1: very strange. And on our refrigerator, we had my father's
Speaker 1: favorite employee, he's still our friend, named Forbes, who was
Speaker 1: covered in head to toe with tattoos, and honest, tattoo
Speaker 1: is like it's one of those body suits of Japanese monks,
Speaker 1: Buddhist monks masturbating, and it was his naked picture of
Speaker 1: the tattoo is on our was on our refrigerator growing
Speaker 1: up because it's like this, this is My parents are
Speaker 1: just like, this is so interesting. This is our friend.
Speaker 1: His body is completely tattooed. I mean, this is in
Speaker 1: so when you realize what was going on, well, my
Speaker 1: mother had to explain to me what gay people were
Speaker 1: before they bought They bought the bookstore in just bought it.
Speaker 1: They bought well, they knew that it was a gay bookstore.
Speaker 1: They just bought it because they wanted a bookstore. But
Speaker 1: they were like, well, it's a gay book here, that's fine.
Speaker 1: And then they just implanted themselves within the gay community there.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. But the all the all the kids, they're working,
Speaker 1: we're getting tattooed. They were following Harvey Milk. They were
Speaker 1: getting lots of piercings, and they were all in love
Speaker 1: with my father's He's very handsome, so they were painting
Speaker 1: oil paintings of him and he would put them up.
Speaker 1: They're all still up around his house. I think I
Speaker 1: have one somewhere. It's beautiful, but it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: really beautiful because he loved My father loves male attention,
Speaker 1: male attention. He he loves any kind of attention that
Speaker 1: specifically denotes his beauty because he feels like it's underrated.
Speaker 1: He's very handsome man, but he feels like people don't
Speaker 1: talk about it from gay men. It's beautiful. I mean,
Speaker 1: I I appreciate the attention anywhere I can get it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand where he's coming from. Me too,
Speaker 1: sounds so accepting. Am I reading they're wrong? Is he
Speaker 1: seems very accepting. They're very accepting, and I think that
Speaker 1: keeps them young. You know, they're eighty, they're both eight before.
Speaker 1: They just got the second vaccine last Wednesday. That's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Parts really good. They're really get the kimche Gone break up,
Speaker 1: the choir. They can do anything, which is great. You know,
Speaker 1: they're both spiritual. But it also sounds like they really
Speaker 1: work so ground in the real world, which is lovely.
Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know that. Yeah, foundation of
Speaker 1: like reality. They're like they're taught these values and like, no,
Speaker 1: you gotta do this, you can't do that, you can't
Speaker 1: just they just they were kind to everyone, and that
Speaker 1: was their value base. I think so well. I think
Speaker 1: it was because they came to America in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: four and had to deal with so much racism and
Speaker 1: a lot of difficulties. You know, it was a difficult
Speaker 1: time to come here. I mean all the Beatles were
Speaker 1: one people. They were they had fun, but I think
Speaker 1: everybody else had a hard time coming from different countries,
Speaker 1: and so it was they were super young, they were
Speaker 1: super like traumatized by a lot of the biases, the
Speaker 1: cultural discrimination they experienced that I think it made them
Speaker 1: very open to other people, the other whatever that is.
Speaker 1: They were very accepting. For our second course, Margaret filled
Speaker 1: me in on some of the finer details of Korean
Speaker 1: culture and philosophy. Where where are they from? Where's their
Speaker 1: their their talent that they grow from. We are from Pussan,
Speaker 1: which is kind of like Poussan is like it's the
Speaker 1: Jersey Shore of South Korea. I mean it's really that is,
Speaker 1: it's more working class. But their wealth is a very
Speaker 1: neuveau reach. So they show it whenever they when they
Speaker 1: when they get it, they show it as as soon
Speaker 1: as they can. So there's something about it. This the
Speaker 1: style is it's like similar to Essex in London. It's
Speaker 1: it's bridge and tunnel. Have you visit? Have you go
Speaker 1: back at all? What do you do when you're there?
Speaker 1: Whenever I go back, I go to the market. I
Speaker 1: eat a lot of duck booky, which is the rice
Speaker 1: cakes in the hot spicy red sauce and with egg
Speaker 1: and fishcake. And I like to go and I like
Speaker 1: to just eat everything in the marketplace. I mean that's
Speaker 1: all I do. Is like if I go to vacation
Speaker 1: or if I work there I do comedy in Korea,
Speaker 1: I'll go and I'll just eat, which I think is
Speaker 1: so it's so special and it's so different, even if
Speaker 1: I'm just going, like I'll go to Jedju Island just
Speaker 1: to eat the tangerines, which are a big winter treat.
Speaker 1: Tangerines they're from how they're holabong, which is like these
Speaker 1: perfect delicious, like almost like mandarin oranges. They are really
Speaker 1: specific to the island, but they're so so very good.
Speaker 1: Jedju Island is like a volcanic island. Do they have
Speaker 1: and they peel very easily. They peel very easily. They're
Speaker 1: just really sweet and really juicy, but they're also very
Speaker 1: They're kind of rare. They only happen a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks a year, so how often do you visit? I
Speaker 1: was going once every two years until I was supposed
Speaker 1: to go last year, so I think I probably won't
Speaker 1: go this year either. I mean, it's it's so hard
Speaker 1: to know. So I I would love to go. As
Speaker 1: I get more fluent in the language, I'm getting better
Speaker 1: and better, so hopefully in time I'll be able to
Speaker 1: do an entire show there. Usually when I go. I
Speaker 1: have a translator, so now I'll go and I'll just
Speaker 1: do it in Korean, which hopefully I can do. I
Speaker 1: just have to work on it. That translate. It does
Speaker 1: it does? It does because they know so much about
Speaker 1: American culture, and K pop is so big, it's global,
Speaker 1: so everybody knows these certain things, and and K dramas
Speaker 1: are so big, so everybody knows about that. And you know,
Speaker 1: when you go over there and you're an older, established artist,
Speaker 1: you're immediately given a lot of welcome and hello and
Speaker 1: like very excited. I'm a lot like the Dolly Parton
Speaker 1: of Korea. Everybody gets really excited. I'm thinking of Dolly
Speaker 1: Parton and bodies being found in the backyard and Wicked
Speaker 1: at Bernie's right now. It's very different, lots of different
Speaker 1: things happening. So you're really welcome. People like I love you,
Speaker 1: they love the shift out of you. Yes, And it's
Speaker 1: really fun to go, and I just I also just
Speaker 1: love to be there. I love all of the culture,
Speaker 1: like I love all of the TV and the movies,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a very special place. That's great.
Speaker 1: I mean I wish I had a place to go
Speaker 1: back to it that I was born and that wasn't
Speaker 1: you know. I wish I could go back to Armenia
Speaker 1: and do that, but I can't. You spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time fighting off like the negative stereotypes of culture
Speaker 1: and the Korean culture, but it seems like on the
Speaker 1: flip side, what is like the sort of the beautiful
Speaker 1: positive stuff about the Korean culture that like really no
Speaker 1: one knows you know, your father knows, your mother knows you,
Speaker 1: your grandparents knew. One of those specific things that you
Speaker 1: would you would love to to share and people would
Speaker 1: love to know. There's like a kind of unnamable sadness
Speaker 1: that it's called han Portuguese. It's called han in Portuguese,
Speaker 1: it's called slade, which is like a melancholy. There's no
Speaker 1: real English translation, but it's a kind of melancholy of
Speaker 1: past love that a beautiful pain. That is what Korean
Speaker 1: miss is all about. Han and Jong Jong is a
Speaker 1: nameless love that is so deep. So that's like familial
Speaker 1: love or friendship love, sometimes romantic love, but it's more
Speaker 1: about a love that is really just all encompassing and
Speaker 1: very very much sort of rooted. So there's Han and
Speaker 1: Jong are the two big sort of elements of Korean
Speaker 1: nous that are really beautiful of their present in all
Speaker 1: of our art and music and television and movies and
Speaker 1: everything about Korean nous can be boiled down to han
Speaker 1: and chong. Wow, just two things. Mhmm, it's pain and love. Okay,
Speaker 1: well that's kind of you know, it's kind of popular
Speaker 1: here too, our guests. But do you think there is
Speaker 1: something about you mentioned before? Very I was very disturbed
Speaker 1: by it. Like, there was a huge suicide in Korea.
Speaker 1: Why you think, so suicide? Then you have plastic surgery?
Speaker 1: What does that mean? It's this weird perfectionism that there's
Speaker 1: a standard that there's only like three big schools. So
Speaker 1: if you don't get into those schools, like your life
Speaker 1: is like ruins, you know. And then there's this those competition.
Speaker 1: There's this idea of lack in society. There's only so
Speaker 1: many places, that so many there's no feeling of abundance
Speaker 1: that everybody can be served in something. So you know,
Speaker 1: there's that mentality really doesn't doesn't help us, and then
Speaker 1: there's a there's no real support for mental health. There's
Speaker 1: no real support for anybody who feels different or the outsider.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of bullying in schools, which is really
Speaker 1: very normalized, and so there's a lot of problems that
Speaker 1: exist because of our inability to accept certain aspects of humanity.
Speaker 1: But I think that overall, the culture of it, of
Speaker 1: this beauty and pain and sadness and deep love, is
Speaker 1: really remarkable. It's a tragic it's sort of tragic and
Speaker 1: gorgeous at the same time. For the third course, we
Speaker 1: had to talk comedy. I was surprised to learn that
Speaker 1: her first mentor was someone at the very top of
Speaker 1: her profession. You know, I was gonna say, what would
Speaker 1: you get your first break? It's not the thing as
Speaker 1: a first break. It's sort of like a first little
Speaker 1: crevice that you you found. What is that sort of
Speaker 1: thing where you felt and you said yourself, I have
Speaker 1: all this incredible experience, and I find I find that
Speaker 1: I'm actually very funny. I think I'm funny. What crevice
Speaker 1: that you open to sort of make that happen for yourself?
Speaker 1: It was Jerry Seinfeld. It was him that is incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeahs very supportive. Yeah, he loves comedy and he's really
Speaker 1: a fan of the art form, Like it's he's not
Speaker 1: jaded about any of it at all, and it's really
Speaker 1: incredible that he just enjoys enjoys it so much, and
Speaker 1: he has great taste, he's great sort of I for talent,
Speaker 1: and he's very constructive too with his ideas. And so
Speaker 1: when I performed, he saw me and he was very
Speaker 1: much like, you know, I'm not sure what you decided
Speaker 1: to do with your life. You're very young, but if
Speaker 1: you wanted to be a comedian and actually did this,
Speaker 1: you will have a very a very interesting career and
Speaker 1: a really good time. And I believed it, you know,
Speaker 1: I thought that's really the best vote of confidence anybody
Speaker 1: could give you. I mean, I've heard a podcast when
Speaker 1: I'm so impressed. I didn't realize how much work he
Speaker 1: puts into his It's days and days of segmenting and
Speaker 1: how to wait for that right, It's just it's very deliberate.
Speaker 1: It's not like off the cuffs stuff. He said, I
Speaker 1: really go off the cofference, very scripted, which I it
Speaker 1: doesn't feel it, which I guess is what real talent
Speaker 1: is when you don't we don't feel it? Right? Are
Speaker 1: you scripted like that? You do? Are you just like
Speaker 1: get out there and read the audience you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I gotta change up here. Well, both, I think there's
Speaker 1: different things, but you do have to be craftsman. You know,
Speaker 1: there is a structure that you follow, and there are
Speaker 1: things that we know about shows and about people and
Speaker 1: what the expectations are and what you have to deliver.
Speaker 1: But then there's this sort of like manic place where
Speaker 1: you can do different kinds of things, which I really like.
Speaker 1: But I feel like what I love about Jerry Seinfeld
Speaker 1: is his precision. You know, he's really he's he's an
Speaker 1: incredible artist, because he really is. It's in those details,
Speaker 1: in those finer details. It's it's really brilliant. And you know,
Speaker 1: I'm lucky enough to know him and consider him a friend,
Speaker 1: and you know, I've known him all this time. It's
Speaker 1: it's really great. Someone reminds me of him a lot.
Speaker 1: Is one of my favorites. It's sort of my time.
Speaker 1: I'm just maging myself with George Carlin. Him this sense
Speaker 1: of storytelling that was just it was physical, you know,
Speaker 1: his he had this physicality that was I don't know,
Speaker 1: he couldn't explain it right, and he was so he
Speaker 1: was great, and he was so obvious. He was way
Speaker 1: ahead of his time. More the people that are like
Speaker 1: really like make you laugh in a way that isn't
Speaker 1: just because of their funny they make you laugh in
Speaker 1: a different way. Well, the ultimate is Joan Rivers. She
Speaker 1: was really incredible for for what she was able to
Speaker 1: accomplish as a person, and you know what she did,
Speaker 1: and she was a great friend and a mentor, and
Speaker 1: also somebody that was just so incredibly encouraging but just raunchy,
Speaker 1: like I'm raunchy. I would go see her, I would
Speaker 1: be embarrassed, I'm abressed, I'm embarrassed. Here's a problem. So
Speaker 1: it was very intense to see somebody that was just
Speaker 1: so willing to just do whatever. And then you know,
Speaker 1: the same thing as done Ripples again, the same kind
Speaker 1: of spirit. It's really magnificent. You know, these guys are
Speaker 1: just so they're so special on modern days. I love Ticknataro,
Speaker 1: I love Wanda Psykes is my face and a good friend,
Speaker 1: great comedian, you know, I love Bill Burr, and I
Speaker 1: love Dave Chappelle, and you know, there's so many great
Speaker 1: comedians and even if we're in lockdown, we still get
Speaker 1: to hear from them, which is really a wonderful gift.
Speaker 1: It is day. Chapela is a special dude, I'll tell you.
Speaker 1: But I also like the Sebastian monschool call. Yeah. His
Speaker 1: physical I love the physicality of that, and I can
Speaker 1: it's like that you don't even embarrassed, Like it's aim.
Speaker 1: He almost doesn't. He doesn't have to say anything. It's
Speaker 1: just his it's his face and shoulders. And I tell people,
Speaker 1: he doesn't tell one joke. He just explains life. When
Speaker 1: he wakes up, he'll explained going a coffee shop, and
Speaker 1: it's funny. But it's just his manner. Ah, I mean
Speaker 1: the body. What's happening now with the world of comedy
Speaker 1: where the we're like so afraid of insulting people and
Speaker 1: telling a joke and we have to apologize before we breathe?
Speaker 1: How is this? How is this going to end up?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, how do when you go on a stage,
Speaker 1: even go on a stage in six months and you're
Speaker 1: gonna go maybe college or an audience, how are you
Speaker 1: gonna offend people correctly? How do you do that? Well?
Speaker 1: You have to. You have to just do it in
Speaker 1: a way that is like lighthearted and in the spirit
Speaker 1: of like comedy is noble you're just trying to make
Speaker 1: somebody laugh, which is making them breathe deeper, and you
Speaker 1: want to surprise them with these thoughts. That's what comedy
Speaker 1: is is just like a surprise. It's like a let
Speaker 1: me show you a way that a mind can work
Speaker 1: that's not going to be yours. And that's really what
Speaker 1: comedy is at the base level. And part of that
Speaker 1: is being offended. So I think it's really acceptance of
Speaker 1: the nature of what comedy is and breaking it down
Speaker 1: to those philosophical forms, but also knowing that it's just
Speaker 1: going to make us better at the art form. You know,
Speaker 1: the more restrictions that you put in place in terms
Speaker 1: of the creative mind, the more it blooms because you
Speaker 1: just you have to fill up that space. So I
Speaker 1: think it's it's ultimately going to be good for comedy.
Speaker 1: I hope it's in an interesting time now. You you
Speaker 1: said once that people are like open to your ideas
Speaker 1: if you give it to them with like a laugh
Speaker 1: and some humility, so they'll take a shot. Yes, I
Speaker 1: think that is that's true. Do you see that? I mean,
Speaker 1: have you ever gotten do you get like foot or
Speaker 1: like hiss at? Now? I mean I've watched some people
Speaker 1: who I've listened to some podcast where people are afraid
Speaker 1: to even go to a college campus anymore and do
Speaker 1: their routine. I mean, Chris Rock, they will never do
Speaker 1: it again. Yes, I think that he can. I think
Speaker 1: we all can. I think it's really something that you
Speaker 1: have to understand, is that I feel like there was
Speaker 1: always this descent, but we didn't have a place to
Speaker 1: show it. Now that social media is now, people just
Speaker 1: have a platform to express their dissatisfaction, whatever that might be.
Speaker 1: And that's valid, you know. I think it's fine, Like
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid to say whatever it is because I
Speaker 1: know the intention is always going to be good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think, so what do you say to a
Speaker 1: young entertainer or someone who is like a comedian or
Speaker 1: an actor or someone who's just starting out? How do
Speaker 1: you how do you what would you do to encourage it,
Speaker 1: especially as a as a young comic, because there are
Speaker 1: so many great young comers. What would you say to them?
Speaker 1: You're now that Jerry Steinfeld, You're not giving advice. Well
Speaker 1: you you're you're giving advice and a very very spectacular
Speaker 1: like platform that's very different, it's very political, it's motivating
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. So how do you what
Speaker 1: do you say to them so they can still be
Speaker 1: bring that joy but be themselves well, both to be joyful,
Speaker 1: to be themselves. To know that we're in the kind
Speaker 1: of a minefield when it comes to people getting offunded
Speaker 1: and people being afraid to talk about certain things, but
Speaker 1: to not be afraid of the the joy that you
Speaker 1: get out of performing, and to always go for that,
Speaker 1: and to always serve your own master, whatever that thought is,
Speaker 1: whatever the joke and the joke is really in control.
Speaker 1: So you have to sort of serve the joke as
Speaker 1: a joke is going to be brought forth. And and
Speaker 1: and I think it's really you know, it's all about
Speaker 1: trial and error. It's never done in a day. There's
Speaker 1: no such things as an overnight sensation. There really isn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, we think that there are, and maybe society
Speaker 1: would sort of make us think that there are, but
Speaker 1: there really aren't. You know, everybody that wants to do
Speaker 1: that spends years trying to figure it out. So try
Speaker 1: to figure out what you are and who you are
Speaker 1: and what you want. So like if you're you wake
Speaker 1: up in the morning like I just I want to
Speaker 1: work on this. I really feeling this. I really want
Speaker 1: to get to this place comically and emotionally. Where is
Speaker 1: that next step for you? Doesn't have to be like
Speaker 1: a step that makes you money, but where do you
Speaker 1: want to get to that that comically and emotionally you
Speaker 1: feel good about. I think it's really just about figuring
Speaker 1: out what this era is, you know, kind of like
Speaker 1: where are we going to be after COVID as a
Speaker 1: society and what is that going to look like both
Speaker 1: inside and out? You know, what is our like day
Speaker 1: to day gonna look like, and then also what's our
Speaker 1: moment to express all that we've learned. I think that
Speaker 1: we as a society have actually changed a lot, even
Speaker 1: in a quarantine, which is impressive, and we can continue
Speaker 1: to grow. So I think I just want to be better.
Speaker 1: It's always want to be a better artist, and also
Speaker 1: just kind of move into a place of like feeling
Speaker 1: very comfortable with age, you know, I mean my fifties now,
Speaker 1: which feels great. So I think it's really something to
Speaker 1: be celebrated when you I mean, obviously there's gonna be
Speaker 1: a time when COVID is like away from myself, like
Speaker 1: you know, tragedy plus time equals comedy. So when can
Speaker 1: we start doing the COVID? I think the COVID jokes
Speaker 1: are already coming because because everybody suffered, and it's not
Speaker 1: like it's one group of people, it's like the entire globe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody suffered and everybody. Are you diving into that? Do
Speaker 1: you have some serious material ready for that? I think so?
Speaker 1: I think, like what, I think it's going to happen,
Speaker 1: though it'll be a lot like after the pandemic there
Speaker 1: was such a huge cultural revival with flapper dresses and
Speaker 1: bobbed hair and prohibition and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So I think that, you know, everybody's calling it the
Speaker 1: horroring twenties. Twenties, they're gonna be everybody's hooking up and
Speaker 1: it's gonna get crazy, which I think is funny and
Speaker 1: really fun. So we'll see how that goes. What is
Speaker 1: the best advice you've got that you actually listened to
Speaker 1: without any I I get defensive and I'm like certain
Speaker 1: someone tells me, tells me something it's good for me.
Speaker 1: I'm like, gets away from me. What what sunk into you?
Speaker 1: What like got to you that you really here? Over
Speaker 1: and over all, the time. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: heard it over and over, but Joan Joan Rivers would
Speaker 1: say over and over that like in comedy, the older
Speaker 1: you get, the more they'll want you. And I think
Speaker 1: that's a good it's a good thing to know for
Speaker 1: women in comedy, it's a rate and I find that
Speaker 1: to be true. So I'm grateful for her for telling me,
Speaker 1: because a lot of times people think actresses after a
Speaker 1: certain age, you know, you don't see them anymore, But
Speaker 1: that's not true for comedians. They you've seen them forever.
Speaker 1: For our fourth and final course, I had to ask
Speaker 1: Margaret about her life in Los Angeles, the food that
Speaker 1: she loves there and the ambitious recipes that she's preparing
Speaker 1: at home. How do you sort of be productive in
Speaker 1: a day? So when you wake up in the morning,
Speaker 1: what's the first thing your mind goes to and and productively,
Speaker 1: So it's like sort of self care, like when you
Speaker 1: say okay, Usually it's like writing things down, Like I
Speaker 1: have a bunch of notebooks everywhere. It's just like sort
Speaker 1: of writing things down and trying to figure out what's
Speaker 1: going to happen. I have like a lot of like
Speaker 1: usually before I go to bed, I'll write those sort
Speaker 1: of a list of things that I need to do
Speaker 1: the next day, and then I'll sleep, sort of sleep
Speaker 1: on it. So the creative projects that I need to
Speaker 1: sort of take care of or think about, and then
Speaker 1: it kind of got Yeah, it's a list that sort
Speaker 1: of guides me into the next project, whatever that is.
Speaker 1: You know, it depends on what's happening. But then and then,
Speaker 1: and then there's just like sort of detail where helf.
Speaker 1: A lot of business now is about self promotion too,
Speaker 1: so how can we figure out what that looks like
Speaker 1: in this pandemic? And people are doing it online and
Speaker 1: figuring it out, so that's good. But so there's different
Speaker 1: things like that. Marketing things and creative things. They go
Speaker 1: hand in hand. Do you like meditate or you know,
Speaker 1: would anything physical? I mean, you seem like you're such
Speaker 1: a you seem so like alive, like constantly. How do
Speaker 1: you how do you fuel that? I mean, you're like
Speaker 1: I do. I have a very active chihuahua, two very
Speaker 1: young cats who are very need a lot of play
Speaker 1: and attention. They all eat raw It's a lot of
Speaker 1: work I make. I make their raw food, which is
Speaker 1: like a lot, but that's fun. I. I do a
Speaker 1: lot of different kinds, Like I exercise with them. You know,
Speaker 1: my cats aren't able to walk that Alshi yet but
Speaker 1: they're too little. But they she loves to just go.
Speaker 1: So we go on long hikes and walks on in
Speaker 1: the woods and which is really nice. It makes me
Speaker 1: feel like a country gentlewoman when I'm walking in my
Speaker 1: boots and big jackets. So that's I do, like long
Speaker 1: physical sort of like hikes and stuff. So you're you're
Speaker 1: basically you self stopped by like breathing and walking and
Speaker 1: just it's mostly because you have to get to because
Speaker 1: I have depression, so I have to take a lot
Speaker 1: of exercise. I can't I don't want to take any
Speaker 1: kind of medication, not that there's anything wrong with it,
Speaker 1: but I just feel like nothing has ever worked for
Speaker 1: me except for extra consistent exercise, which is the worst
Speaker 1: thing and the best thing. So it's kind of you
Speaker 1: can't win. But well, what's what exercise you do other
Speaker 1: than do other than walking? You No, I just walked?
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, nothing like that. Nothing that hardcore.
Speaker 1: Nothing that hardcore. How is it in l A there
Speaker 1: they open things up. It's a little oh well, it's
Speaker 1: a little bit. You know, it depends on where it is.
Speaker 1: There's some places that are very just doing take out.
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's struggling here, which is really I try
Speaker 1: to support the takeout as much as I can. And
Speaker 1: there's some I think outdoor dining options. It's just really rough,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I think that it's something that
Speaker 1: makes me really appreciate restaurants much more than I ever did.
Speaker 1: I really missed the restaurant experience. I just can't get
Speaker 1: my pants hot enough to get a good seer. I'm
Speaker 1: scared to do the Alton Brown thing and put the
Speaker 1: cast out in the oven. I should just put it
Speaker 1: in the oven. It's going to be okay if you
Speaker 1: put in the trust me if they it's a two
Speaker 1: thous year old technique technology. It's a piece of metal,
Speaker 1: so nothing's gonna happen to it. Just you gotta use
Speaker 1: a mit because it does get very hot. Yes, it's
Speaker 1: very it's no, and it's very scary though, just to
Speaker 1: get it that ripping hot. And then I also do
Speaker 1: a lot of Korean cooking here, and I'm afraid to
Speaker 1: get the granite bowls and the stone bowls as hot
Speaker 1: as they need to be. You know, the ceramics, I
Speaker 1: just I can't really do it on the stovetop. I
Speaker 1: get nervous. My oven mits only go to five hundreds.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure you can handle the reread clothes, but
Speaker 1: I can't. I don't. The tearro gott of bread clothes
Speaker 1: is fine, but the Korean granite, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: get real nervous. So that's why I want to go
Speaker 1: to restaurants. Do you cook every day every day? I
Speaker 1: have like the Korean thing where I do like the
Speaker 1: cook I have a pot of rice is always plugged in. Okay,
Speaker 1: So if you have do you have like a specific diet?
Speaker 1: Are you like like vegan or you or Keto? Where
Speaker 1: do you? Where are you trending? Do you trend anywhere? No?
Speaker 1: I I love it all, you know, I do go
Speaker 1: through I went through a serious like Thai food thing
Speaker 1: this year. So I was going to the tie markets
Speaker 1: and I bought a big mortar and pestle. I have
Speaker 1: two mortar and pestles. One of them is so big
Speaker 1: I have to sit on the ground with a skirt
Speaker 1: on and put it between my legs and pounded. That's
Speaker 1: how determined I am to get this dish right. I
Speaker 1: pound everything. I tell people that there's no way to
Speaker 1: make a pestel or spice maketure. You must grind your
Speaker 1: herbs and spices. There's no complee because of the oil oils.
Speaker 1: If you put it in a blend of the oils
Speaker 1: go away. And it's just it's not the same. It's
Speaker 1: not the same at all if you make especially so
Speaker 1: you cook every day. You love your animals, and you
Speaker 1: cook for your animals. Your animals are raw. They raw.
Speaker 1: Do you cook for your parents? Are they close enough
Speaker 1: to They can't eat that? Well, they're in San Diego,
Speaker 1: so they're not very far. They can't eat anything salty.
Speaker 1: And I always put too much fish sauce in everything.
Speaker 1: So I love the fish sauce. They can't have that.
Speaker 1: I love a fish sauce. I love like a smoked
Speaker 1: soy sauce of smoked show you. I love you know,
Speaker 1: like a hejikie black vinegar. Like I like to turn
Speaker 1: it up with these odd sort of condiments. From when
Speaker 1: you were in San Francisco, when did you move out
Speaker 1: of there? And like what was the transition? I mean,
Speaker 1: you have the culture of San Francisco which you know
Speaker 1: back then was very vibrant. I mean that was crazy, right,
Speaker 1: I mean that was the seventies and eighties in San
Speaker 1: Francisco were like very special and it was like very special.
Speaker 1: It was rock and roll basically. So when did you
Speaker 1: how how did that affect you? And when did you
Speaker 1: sort of leave it? And you know you never leave it,
Speaker 1: but when did you decide to say, you know, I've
Speaker 1: had I want to see something else. Well, I moved
Speaker 1: initially from San Francisco to Los Angeles and it was
Speaker 1: different because l as So it was a difficult time there.
Speaker 1: L was so kind of rough and oh yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: here for that, the l A Riots. And it was
Speaker 1: also very segregated. So you had the Latino sections, you
Speaker 1: had the Korean sections, you had the Black sections, you
Speaker 1: had Beverly Hills, you had all of these different and
Speaker 1: then the our median section, which is Glendale. It's definitely
Speaker 1: like food wise, you're really spoiled for choice. The food
Speaker 1: is like great, and the Mexican food, I think there
Speaker 1: is a lot of Mexican food and Safraatists, but it's
Speaker 1: very savatistco style with the giant Mission Street burritos and
Speaker 1: that's its own thing. But here it's all about tacos,
Speaker 1: which are so great. So you feel very you seem
Speaker 1: that you're very comfortable where you are and in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: and you feel very comfortable in your skin. Yes, you
Speaker 1: feel l A is really sort of changed for the
Speaker 1: better because it seems like it's very different. Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love Los Angeles. I love I love
Speaker 1: being here. It's very diverse. People think it's all movie
Speaker 1: stars and beaches, but there's so much to Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: It's really incredible place to live. I'll always live here,
Speaker 1: and I'm just really happy in my life. You know,
Speaker 1: it's so I think it shows. But as an artist,
Speaker 1: like I'm in a good place of like creating because
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of other aspects of my
Speaker 1: existing except for my house, my animals, my career. You know,
Speaker 1: there's just a lot of time that I have for myself,
Speaker 1: which is really good. What are your favorite restaurants there
Speaker 1: in l A. I mean, I'm I love it there.
Speaker 1: I love the Italian place, Felix, Oh, God, have I
Speaker 1: think I have? I love I love all of the
Speaker 1: different like I love Moza great. Oh, I just love
Speaker 1: I have to go to Felix. Yeah, but I love
Speaker 1: Moza is like probably my favorite. And then I have
Speaker 1: I made Nancy Silverton's sour dough starter with the Greats,
Speaker 1: so that's her bread everything. It's just beautiful. I missed
Speaker 1: that restaurant the most. I think she's such a genius.
Speaker 1: She is a genius. I love her to death. Just
Speaker 1: I just love watching her. I sit at that Mozzarella bar.
Speaker 1: You know, she has an explosion in her mind and
Speaker 1: she goes to that she understands what's gonna go together.
Speaker 1: It's like this magic, a little act right in front
Speaker 1: of her, and she makes medicine for you. And her
Speaker 1: food is like medicine is so delicious. And that's the
Speaker 1: way you think of so delicious, And that's that's how
Speaker 1: I think of almost comedy. I think it's almost like this.
Speaker 1: You sit down and you're gonna get a dose of
Speaker 1: something that's gonna make you feel good. So what better
Speaker 1: way to feel good? I think of of comedy as
Speaker 1: as as medicine. And I just love talking to you.
Speaker 1: I could talk to you forever. I'm so excited I
Speaker 1: met you. Weet. My my wife is sheers are the
Speaker 1: name Margaret so I think it's a beautiful name, and
Speaker 1: you're such a beautiful person. Well, I'm gonna let you go.
Speaker 1: It's almost it's probably I don't know if you've had
Speaker 1: lunch yet, but I hope you have a delicious lunch
Speaker 1: and a delicious day. And thank you so much, really appreciated.
Speaker 1: I hope we get to talk again, have a wonderful
Speaker 1: a wonderful week. Thank you you too, Thank you, Terres.
Speaker 1: Thanks very much for listening to Four Courses with Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Zacarian a production of I Heart Radio and Corner Table Entertainment.
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis. Four Courses is created
Speaker 1: by Jeffrey Zacarion, Margaret Zacarion, Jared Keller, and Tara Halper.
Speaker 1: Four Courses is produced by Jonathan Haws Dressler, with editing
Speaker 1: and mixing from Joe Tistall. Our research is conducted by
Speaker 1: Jescelyn Shields. Four Courses is engineered by Molly Swanson. Our
Speaker 1: talent booking is by Pamela Bauer at Dogtown Talent. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows.