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Speaker 1: welcome to Hoop tonight. You're at the volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody,
Speaker 1: Hope all you guys are having a great week. We
Speaker 1: had no games last night because of the presidential election
Speaker 1: here in the US. Will not be discus that in
Speaker 1: any capacity, but I do have the guys from Nerd, SSH,
Speaker 1: Logan and Carson coming to join us for five big
Speaker 1: questions surrounding the NBA. We're going to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about our top tier of contenders, whether or not
Speaker 1: we should be making any tweaks to that after the
Speaker 1: first few weeks of the season, we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about the two biggest surprises in the league, the Golden
Speaker 1: State Warriors and the Cleveland Cavaliers. I'm gonna I want
Speaker 1: to spend some time on the Phoenix Suns. They're a
Speaker 1: team that we haven't hit in the last few days,
Speaker 1: and they're off to an equally impressive start against a
Speaker 1: very tough schedule thanks to some late game shot making
Speaker 1: from Kevin Durant. We're talk a little bit of MAVs, talk,
Speaker 1: a little Lakers, and then the two biggest disappointments in
Speaker 1: the NBA in my opinion this season, the Milwaukee Bucks
Speaker 1: and the Denver Nuggets. So we're gonna be bouncing all
Speaker 1: around the NBA. It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and get started. Let's start with the
Speaker 1: top tier of contenders. So, Carson and Logan, I started
Speaker 1: the season with four teams in my top tier. I
Speaker 1: had Boston for obvious reasons, defending champ incredibly dominant last year,
Speaker 1: even though they didn't really face much in the way
Speaker 1: of adversity along the way. I think that they would
Speaker 1: have done well had they faced adversity given the talent
Speaker 1: and the level of basketball that they were playing, and
Speaker 1: I think that they were just a shoe in right
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City at Hartenstein at Caruso. To kind of get
Speaker 1: into that point where they're nearly as talented as Boston,
Speaker 1: you've got to include them. Denver for me, was Jokich's
Speaker 1: the biggest matchup problem in the NBA. And then I
Speaker 1: thought people were a little low on them after everything
Speaker 1: that went down last year, basically them coming this close
Speaker 1: to making it to the Western Conference Finals despite a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff going against them. And then the New
Speaker 1: York Knicks after trading Frog and Andobi at the tail
Speaker 1: end of last year, getting Michael Bridges and Karl Anthony
Speaker 1: Towns and they're super talented starting five. But Boston and
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City have run away with things here early. I
Speaker 1: think they're what thirteen and one or something like that
Speaker 1: to start the year. But the Knicks and the Nuggets.
Speaker 1: The Knicks aren't three and three, the Nuggets at four
Speaker 1: and three, so both slow out the gate. Is it
Speaker 1: clear that there's a kind of a rift forming between
Speaker 1: those groups? I like, should we consider changing our top
Speaker 1: tier contender list to just Boston and Oklahoma City. Let's
Speaker 1: start with you, Carson, what do you think?
Speaker 3: I do think so, and that's honestly where I've been at.
Speaker 3: I had okay See winning the title preseason. I was
Speaker 3: extremely extremely high on their offseason and their natural improvement
Speaker 3: this year, just having such a young, rapidly ascending cores.
Speaker 3: So I've basically viewed them in Boston as the two juggernauts,
Speaker 3: and I would have agreed with you that these were
Speaker 3: my top four teams preseason, but I think I would
Speaker 3: have already had a division in terms of tier between
Speaker 3: Boston and Okase. And then I viewed Denver as a
Speaker 3: team that was.
Speaker 4: Really, really good.
Speaker 3: I also thought people were underestimating that had the potential
Speaker 3: to play spoiler versus a team like oka See because
Speaker 3: of the overwhelming Yokic factor as much as anything else.
Speaker 3: But I think if there is some pretty clear separation there,
Speaker 3: and the thing with oka See that is just so
Speaker 3: ridiculous is what they're doing defensively. I thought they would
Speaker 3: have the best defense in basketball. I think they do
Speaker 3: have the best defense in basketball, and potentially one of
Speaker 3: the best that we've seen in a long time. They
Speaker 3: have a defensive rating under ninety four after seven games,
Speaker 3: they're forcing almost twenty one turnovers per game. Like these
Speaker 3: are just comical numbers, and even through seven games, like
Speaker 3: the sample size is small, but that's still a relatively
Speaker 3: long period to hold up these sort of ridiculous, disgusting numbers.
Speaker 3: It's just one of the most disruptive defenses that we've
Speaker 3: seen in a long time. They have an all world
Speaker 3: rim protector in Chet. They have the best perimeter defense
Speaker 3: in basketball around him. There's just ridiculous length and athleticism
Speaker 3: and activity and collective IQ all around him.
Speaker 4: And nothing is easy versus this team.
Speaker 3: You see it versus Jokic right when they don't have
Speaker 3: Hertenstein out there, so they have to double basically every touch,
Speaker 3: they make, every catch hard, every rotation. They are smothering
Speaker 3: every nugget around Yokic. When he is able to get
Speaker 3: the ball to an open player, that player's only open
Speaker 3: for a split second. What we've seen them do to
Speaker 3: great ball handlers like Trey Young right, forcing him into
Speaker 3: ten turnovers, It's just absurd the amount of chaos that
Speaker 3: they cause. And I legitimately think they have four all
Speaker 3: defense caliber players. Chet is a no brainer Caruso lou Dort.
Speaker 3: I think Cason Wallace is playing at that level. I
Speaker 3: think that he is an absolute hound defensively, and maybe
Speaker 3: the craziest stat about their defense to start this year,
Speaker 3: they have a ninety one defensive rating with Chet on
Speaker 3: the floor, which is like incomprehensible, right, they also have
Speaker 3: a sub ninety eight defensive rating with him off the floor,
Speaker 3: and that's without Hartenstein, who's heard, and that's without Jay Will.
Speaker 3: So they're doing those with five guard lineups, with lineups
Speaker 3: that don't have a big on the floor, they are
Speaker 3: just so ferocious thing for so many turnovers that teams
Speaker 3: can't score on them, and those looks either. So that's
Speaker 3: really what is so remarkable to me about Okay, see,
Speaker 3: it is the defensive end of the floor, but it's
Speaker 3: also just that versatility and it's that depth in terms
Speaker 3: of the lethal defensive lineups they can play and the
Speaker 3: legal offense lineups they can play, going two bigs with
Speaker 3: Hartenstein out there, going small with Chet at the five,
Speaker 3: and Chet has taken a leap on offense, and that's
Speaker 3: another reason that I'm super high on this team. The
Speaker 3: production the last three games hasn't really been there. He's
Speaker 3: been in some foul trouble. He hasn't played too many minutes,
Speaker 3: but he clearly looks more confident as a driver. He
Speaker 3: just looks more aggressive out there offensively, and I think
Speaker 3: that he is probably like a top twenty player in
Speaker 3: basketball right now with what he's doing on the defensive end.
Speaker 3: And that's the other thing. I think this Okase offense
Speaker 3: is just going to continue to look better. They're nineteenth
Speaker 3: in offensive rating right now and there's still number one
Speaker 3: in net rating. I think that they have the talent
Speaker 3: to be a top five offense with all the athleticism
Speaker 3: and with all the playmaking and driving and shot creation
Speaker 3: they have on the floor. And I do think that
Speaker 3: with Hertenstein out there, they are more built for the
Speaker 3: physical battle of the playoffs, which was the big question
Speaker 3: last year. You have experience, but you also just have
Speaker 3: the slightness of that team struggling on the glass, right
Speaker 3: can they deal with some of these monsters in the
Speaker 3: post a Nikole Yoelkic like Minnesota last year, which was
Speaker 3: just huge with their two bigs. I do think if
Speaker 3: they're better equipped to do that, and all the young
Speaker 3: guys are getting better, and when you look at Denver
Speaker 3: when you look at New York, Like, even if you
Speaker 3: don't think the sky is falling for those teams, which
Speaker 3: I don't, they are just way more flawed.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: The questions that we have fundamentally about New York on
Speaker 3: the defensive end, the questions that we have about Denver's death,
Speaker 3: new York's death as well, those to me just far
Speaker 3: surpassed any question that I have about OKC, which I
Speaker 3: guess would just be like their three point volume, and
Speaker 3: maybe they're spacing when you are playing Hartenstein out there
Speaker 3: alongside Schet, But I just think they're too great defensively,
Speaker 3: and I still think they're too offensively skilled for that
Speaker 3: to really matter against anybody other than Boston.
Speaker 5: I agree with both of you guys.
Speaker 6: I think Boston and Oklahoma City have separated themselves from
Speaker 6: the pack. And to add some context to some of
Speaker 6: those numbers that Carson was talking about.
Speaker 5: Oklahoma City is seven and zero.
Speaker 6: They've held five of their seven opponents to ninety five
Speaker 6: or fewer points. Right now as it stands, again, we're
Speaker 6: only through seven games of the NBA season, So do
Speaker 6: with these numbers what you will. They have the number
Speaker 6: two defensive rating in NBA history. You have to go
Speaker 6: back to the nineteen seventies to see a team with
Speaker 6: a lower mark. They're number one in defensive rating since
Speaker 6: two thousand. The next two teams that you look at
Speaker 6: are the two thousand and four Pistons in the two
Speaker 6: thousand and four Spurs.
Speaker 5: It's just a.
Speaker 6: Completely different brand of basketball. Oklahoma City's also number one
Speaker 6: in stocks per game. Ever by an NBA team that
Speaker 6: steals in blocks per game. They're number one and steals
Speaker 6: per game of any team in NBA history. And the
Speaker 6: remarkable thing to me, guys, is that this team hasn't
Speaker 6: broken a sweat yet. It really hasn't seemed like the
Speaker 6: thunder have been pushed or had to over exert themselves.
Speaker 6: So I do it starts with this defense, and obviously,
Speaker 6: when we look back to what held them back in
Speaker 6: the playoffs last year, Chet's gonna have to pull his
Speaker 6: weight offensively. He was under sixteen points a night on
Speaker 6: twenty six percent from deep. Jalen Williams has to pull
Speaker 6: his weight offensively as well. In the Mavericks series, he
Speaker 6: was seventeen a night on forty two percent from the field.
Speaker 5: And the surrounding guys have to shoot well.
Speaker 6: Cason Wallace was it just thirty two percent, Aaron Wiggins
Speaker 6: was at thirty percent. But I think those guys earned
Speaker 6: much needed playoff experience. Isaiah Hardenstein, as you mentioned, Carson
Speaker 6: hasn't even played yet. Like, if you were telling me
Speaker 6: they were gonna be putting up these numbers through seven games,
Speaker 6: I would have thought he would have had to have
Speaker 6: been on the floor. And so I just find myself
Speaker 6: asking crazy questions about this team.
Speaker 5: I don't know if you guys feel like this.
Speaker 6: I've puted some questions to Carson in our text as
Speaker 6: the season has started, but like I find myself asking
Speaker 6: questions like can this team win seventy games? Can SGA
Speaker 6: win MVP and Check win Defensive Player of the Year?
Speaker 6: Like could this be maybe not this season, but eventually
Speaker 6: one of the greatest teams ever. I'm getting a little
Speaker 6: hyperbotlic here, but I do this team is I'm stupidly
Speaker 6: high on Oklahoma City, and I do think they're in
Speaker 6: a tier by themselves with Boston.
Speaker 1: So I think some of the big picture conversations surrounding
Speaker 1: like seventy games and some of the stuff of surrounding
Speaker 1: their metrics, I think a little premature, just because they've played.
Speaker 2: A really light schedule out the gates.
Speaker 1: Now, for the record, I think Okaye's awesome and I
Speaker 1: think they're gonna do well against better teams. But the West, guys,
Speaker 1: the West and East, it's still two very different ballgames here. Like,
Speaker 1: there are ten teams that are above five hundred so far,
Speaker 1: eight of them.
Speaker 2: Are in the West.
Speaker 1: The West is sixty and forty eight, and head to
Speaker 1: head matchups with the Eastern Conference to start the season,
Speaker 1: that's about three percent and win percentage ahead of where
Speaker 1: it was even last year when the West was seventy
Speaker 1: games over five hundred against the East. So like, there's
Speaker 1: just so many good teams night in and night out
Speaker 1: out West that like Oklahoma City will drop games. I
Speaker 1: think they're gonna run away with the one seed. I
Speaker 1: think there's I think that I mean, to get to
Speaker 1: the actual origin of the question, I am changing my
Speaker 1: top tier of contenders, and I usually don't do this
Speaker 1: sort of thing in less than ten games. But there's
Speaker 1: obviously a lot that goes into it. These are two
Speaker 1: very complex basketball teams, and the teams that I'm dropping
Speaker 1: Denver and New York, I do think will play better
Speaker 1: in the long run. New York is a new team,
Speaker 1: They're figuring some stuff out. Denver just literally everyone's either
Speaker 1: banged up or not playing well, like other than Jokic,
Speaker 1: So that just that will just make a team look
Speaker 1: lesser than they are. So like, I do think those
Speaker 1: teams will play better in the long run. But to me,
Speaker 1: Boston and Denver are very Excuse me, Boston and Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City are very clearly on a separate tier from the rest.
Speaker 2: Of the league.
Speaker 1: They are the top tier of contenders that I look
Speaker 1: at right now. And the main singular piece that I
Speaker 1: want to focus on is as in this is every
Speaker 1: every year in the NBA, I feel like I learn
Speaker 1: more about the game of basketball. It's one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things about the game. I feel like it's constantly
Speaker 1: changing and shifting, and like even within that there's like
Speaker 1: any one team that kind of finds a market inefficiency
Speaker 1: can jump through and win kind of like Denver did
Speaker 1: two years ago. Or it's like we don't shoot any threason,
Speaker 1: we don't necessarily have a good defensive anchor at center,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna win the title, which was like super rare, right,
Speaker 1: Like there's the game is always.
Speaker 2: Shifting and changing.
Speaker 1: And one of the main things that really stood out
Speaker 1: to me over the course of the start of the
Speaker 1: season is that the game of basketball shifted so much
Speaker 1: towards pacing and spacing and shooting, driving, kicking. Hell damn,
Speaker 1: near twenty percent, damn near one fifth of these games
Speaker 1: is being played in transition at this point, Like literally
Speaker 1: a significant chunk of the game is up and down,
Speaker 1: flying up and down the court. So your ability to
Speaker 1: have speed on the floor, to cover ground in transition,
Speaker 1: to cover ground in rotation, to pressure the ball and
Speaker 1: contain the ball, flatten out drives to win long rebound
Speaker 1: contests and fifty to fifty balls. That sort of thing
Speaker 1: to me as rising to the surface as one of
Speaker 1: the most important traits of a basketball team. And in
Speaker 1: addition to all of the things that Boston does extremely well,
Speaker 1: and in addition to all the things that Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: does ext extremely well, they're both just fast as shit,
Speaker 1: and they're both deep with players that can cover ground
Speaker 1: in transition, in rotation, that can get into the ball
Speaker 1: with pressure and make teams uncomfortable and fight them off
Speaker 1: of spots. And like, when I look down the rest
Speaker 1: of the league, I think there are teams that can
Speaker 1: match that speed. Golden State is a team we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about that I think can match that speed
Speaker 1: on the perimeter. But those two teams are the only
Speaker 1: two teams that have that kind of all encompassing trait
Speaker 1: that I think is so important while having the amount
Speaker 1: of firepower necessary to win for playoff rounds. Now, neither
Speaker 1: team is off to a perfect start. Boston's defense and
Speaker 1: even their transition defense hasn't been great to start the year,
Speaker 1: although they've been playing in a lot of blowouts. Oklahoma City,
Speaker 1: you know, Shaye and Jaylen Williams are really working hard
Speaker 1: to increase their pull up three point shot volume and
Speaker 1: they're experimenting with some stuff. I love the breakdown you
Speaker 1: gave on chet. I agree, he's been one of the
Speaker 1: twenty best players I've watched to start the season. Again,
Speaker 1: we'll see it's a small sample size. He's got to
Speaker 1: maintain it. But he's just he's just hooping.
Speaker 2: His ass off. There's no other way. There's no other
Speaker 2: way to put it.
Speaker 1: But to me, like Boston and Oklahoma City, they just
Speaker 1: they're separating themselves and like, I'm going to have a
Speaker 1: really hard time at this point finding any reason to
Speaker 1: pick against either of them in their conferences, and I
Speaker 1: think we could be headed to a very, very exciting
Speaker 1: NBA Finals. All right, let's move on to our surprises.
Speaker 1: So the two biggest surprises in the NBA this year
Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors and the Cleveland Cavaliers. Now very
Speaker 1: different in the sense that the Cavs were already considered
Speaker 1: like kind of a middle of the pack Eastern Conference
Speaker 1: playoff team that is overachieving to the top of the conference.
Speaker 1: Golden State, I think, was a team that most people
Speaker 1: around the league were pretty low on for good reason
Speaker 1: coming out of last year. They were They were well
Speaker 1: below five hundred against teams that were five hundred or
Speaker 1: better last season. A couple of big pivotal must win
Speaker 1: games at the end of the year against media yocre teams,
Speaker 1: they lost both of them. Steph didn't look like a
Speaker 1: top ten player anymore. There was just there was some
Speaker 1: weird politics stuff going on, like it just looked like
Speaker 1: a team that maybe wasn't even worth investing it in
Speaker 1: terms of making a deal and just moving coming into
Speaker 1: the bench, getting Clay out of there, having everybody buy
Speaker 1: into Rolls.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden. They have this thirteen man rotation.
Speaker 1: I think they nailed every single signing from the summer,
Speaker 1: and even with Steph barely contributing to this point in
Speaker 1: the season, they're kicking everybody's butt. I'll be it against
Speaker 1: a light schedule. So between the Warriors and the Cavs,
Speaker 1: and we'll start with you, Logan, which of those two
Speaker 1: teams do you think has more potential to actually compete
Speaker 1: for a championship this year?
Speaker 6: I think it's the Cavaliers, and I gotta go, Nick Kolla,
Speaker 6: listen here. I got to put my hand up the
Speaker 6: people that you were describing previous season about both of
Speaker 6: these teams.
Speaker 5: I'm in both.
Speaker 6: I did not expect the Warriors to be close to
Speaker 6: five hundred this year. I thought they were going to
Speaker 6: hover around there, but I didn't think they were going
Speaker 6: to overachieve, especially with Steph Curry out. Like this team
Speaker 6: has been really resilient. They've battled every night, and I
Speaker 6: think this entire team really compliments one another. I do
Speaker 6: think they have a glaring flaw that could come back
Speaker 6: to bite them. I'll get into that in a minute,
Speaker 6: but I do think it's Cleveland. And it starts with
Speaker 6: Evan Mobley's leap. Carson just did a video yesterday on
Speaker 6: Evan Mobley, which you guys can find on the nerd
Speaker 6: Sash YouTube channel if you an interested, full breakdown on
Speaker 6: the development he's had this year. But he's already one
Speaker 6: of the best defenders on the planet. The Cavs are
Speaker 6: nine point four points per one hundre possessions better with Mobley.
Speaker 6: It's a difference between a defensive rating of one oh
Speaker 6: four point seven and one fourteen point one.
Speaker 5: Mobley's been doing this.
Speaker 6: Carson called him the best defensive prospect he had ever
Speaker 6: evaluated at the time of the draft. He's always been
Speaker 6: really transformative on that end, and you could see that
Speaker 6: he was going to be really impactful there. But it's
Speaker 6: really about the offensive leap first. Mobley's been a problem
Speaker 6: in transition. He's an eighty first percentile transition scorer, and
Speaker 6: he can do.
Speaker 5: It in both ways.
Speaker 6: Either if he's trailing the ball hand and just running
Speaker 6: the floor when you feeds your big man right, he's
Speaker 6: a problem there getting up and down with Garland and Mitchell,
Speaker 6: but he's also handling in transition, which is crazy. There
Speaker 6: was a play in the Milwaukee game where he gets
Speaker 6: a block at the rim, gets the ball at about
Speaker 6: the three quarters line of the court, takes four dribbles,
Speaker 6: and is at the rim.
Speaker 5: Dunking it like it's just insane. Stuff like that. He
Speaker 5: can do that.
Speaker 6: But he's initiating from the perimeter. He's taking and shooting
Speaker 6: more confidently than ever. He's taking two threes a game.
Speaker 6: I know that's not a lot, but it's an improvement
Speaker 6: for Mobile, and again he's taking them confidently. You're watching
Speaker 6: Mobley take floaters, post hooks. He's being more aggressive and
Speaker 6: more willing as a roleman like. And I want to
Speaker 6: be clear about something. The touch and the footwork are
Speaker 6: very much still a work in progress. You can see
Speaker 6: that game to game with Mobley, but he's getting and
Speaker 6: manufacturing high quality looks. It's such a high level he
Speaker 6: just makes it look easy. It's not really about him
Speaker 6: getting to the looks.
Speaker 5: It's about Mobley making them. And so if he can cross.
Speaker 6: Over that barrier, I think there's even another leap that
Speaker 6: Mobley could tap into. Where you're looking at this guy
Speaker 6: potentially is maybe a you know, I think a twenty
Speaker 6: two or twenty three point per game score, and that's
Speaker 6: really deadly, But it's really about how he unlocks the
Speaker 6: rest of this team around him, because for the longest time,
Speaker 6: for years now, Carson and I have been talking about
Speaker 6: the dynamic and the fit with having two offensive oriented
Speaker 6: guards and Garland and Mitchell, and then two very limited
Speaker 6: offensive players and Mobley and Allen. If Mobley can make
Speaker 6: this a legitimate leap, him and Allen can coexist and
Speaker 6: compliment one another, and they can have a great defense
Speaker 6: alongside them. Garland also has returned to forhim he was
Speaker 6: dealing with a broken jaw last year. He looks like
Speaker 6: he's come back in a big way. The last game
Speaker 6: against the Bucks thirty nine points, seven to three pointers.
Speaker 6: It's I underestimated them, guys, Like I think the Cavs
Speaker 6: are my number two team out East. I thought the
Speaker 6: Knicks were clearly going to be the number two team,
Speaker 6: and it's close between them. I want to be clear
Speaker 6: about that, but I don't think the Knicks can do
Speaker 6: what the Cavs do defensively night tonight, and I like
Speaker 6: their depth more this year too.
Speaker 5: I was sleeping. I apologize Dean Wade. Dean Wade is
Speaker 5: kind of a ball guys.
Speaker 6: Kris Lavert Off the bench can serve you a cool
Speaker 6: twenty whenever he needs to. Akro is a good supporting
Speaker 6: piece off the bench. I love me some Ti Jerome.
Speaker 6: I have always loved Ti Jerome. I love what he
Speaker 6: gives this bench. He's not the most impactful guy, but
Speaker 6: he can make some good passes and hold up defensively.
Speaker 6: I just trust their defense and their depth more than
Speaker 6: the Knicks and the reason I favor.
Speaker 5: Them over the Warriors.
Speaker 6: I'm impressed by their depth and all the pieces that
Speaker 6: they have. I just feel like the Warriors are a
Speaker 6: little small and that can come back to get them.
Speaker 6: Looney and TJ De or their tallest guys in the
Speaker 6: rotation at six foot nine, I just feel like against
Speaker 6: bigger teams out West that could get them. Like you
Speaker 6: guys said, they play fast, and I think that's how
Speaker 6: Golden State needs to play to win games. And this
Speaker 6: has been an impressive stretch without Steph. But I feel
Speaker 6: like the more jumbo sized out teams in the West
Speaker 6: could just big body them in some playoff series, and
Speaker 6: that's why I'm hesitant to consider the Warriors a real contender.
Speaker 3: I've been very impressed by both these teams, but I'm
Speaker 3: with you, Logan, I think that Cleveland is the more
Speaker 3: legit contender, and you touched on a lot of the
Speaker 3: reasons that I feel that way.
Speaker 4: The mobile leap is a big deal.
Speaker 3: And I understand if you haven't watched the Caves a
Speaker 3: ton and you're looking at the box score and you're saying, Okay,
Speaker 3: what he's averaging seventeen and a half points per game
Speaker 3: compared to fifteen points per game, Like, what's the big
Speaker 3: whoop there? He's being utilized in a totally different way
Speaker 3: in this offense. Logan mentioned how empowered he's been as
Speaker 3: a grab and go guy pushing. In transition, he is
Speaker 3: now running pick and roll, running inverted pick and roll
Speaker 3: and has been effective there. He's driving twice as much
Speaker 3: per game. So there's just a different level of comfort
Speaker 3: and confidence we're seeing from him as a ball handler,
Speaker 3: as a driver, as a creator in this offense that
Speaker 3: I was always optimistic he developed as a prospect. I
Speaker 3: love Devin Mobley as a prospect. He was my favorite guy,
Speaker 3: not just in that class but in the past handful
Speaker 3: of drafts. But he just hadn't developed at the rate
Speaker 3: that I was hoping. Offensively through three years and now
Speaker 3: we're seeing it. And he's not an offensive star, but
Speaker 3: he's a really good offensive player. And the significance of
Speaker 3: that does go past the box score when you just
Speaker 3: have another legitimate threat on the floor when you are
Speaker 3: playing these two big looks, and now you have a
Speaker 3: guy who actually can beat you from the three point line.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Mobley's not going to jack up four or five threes
Speaker 3: a game, but he's been willingly taking a couple of
Speaker 3: night and he's been making them at a solid clip.
Speaker 3: And he's also been much more willing to attack closeouts, right,
Speaker 3: So you have to at least respect him out of
Speaker 3: the three point line, and then he can put the
Speaker 3: ball on the floor and do some damage. That's always
Speaker 3: been the biggest question with the Cavs. It's just can
Speaker 3: they put together a legitimately good offense. I do not
Speaker 3: think that Evan Mobley single handedly solves that, but I
Speaker 3: do think that he helps a good bit. And I think
Speaker 3: when you pair that with the fact that they are
Speaker 3: now starting the best shooting wing that they've had, certainly
Speaker 3: the best combination of both shooting and defense in Dean Wade,
Speaker 3: that makes this offense better. The difference between him and
Speaker 3: and Isaac Okoro, who was twenty six percent from deep
Speaker 3: on low volume in the playoffs is big.
Speaker 4: And then when you add that Garland.
Speaker 3: I think when comes back, I think Strus is also
Speaker 3: a good combination of shooting in defense, but I would
Speaker 3: probably go with Dean. I think that Dean is the
Speaker 3: better defensive player. I think that his switch ability is
Speaker 3: so valuable. But I think either way that's not a
Speaker 3: bad option. And I think that your depth is better
Speaker 3: with those guys out there healthy. I just particularly have
Speaker 3: an issue with Okoro starting as he did a lot
Speaker 3: last year because of his offensive limitations, but I would
Speaker 3: keep starting Dean Wade.
Speaker 4: I think he's really good.
Speaker 3: But so then you add that in, you add the
Speaker 3: mobile leap, you add that Garland is playing better offensively.
Speaker 3: And I always loved Garland, but I was super discouraged
Speaker 3: by last year's playoff run and just how passive he was,
Speaker 3: how much he was struggling. He looks much more confident
Speaker 3: after an offseason getting his body right. So like, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of pieces coming together for Cleveland here. They're
Speaker 3: second in offensive rating right now, and I do not
Speaker 3: expect that to hold up. And in a contending context,
Speaker 3: that is still my concern is what is their real
Speaker 3: ceiling offensively? And also their wing play isn't great, right,
Speaker 3: shout out Dean Wade, shout out Max Struce. They have
Speaker 3: solid wings, but compared to some of the other teams
Speaker 3: who were looking at you know, they still aren't stacked
Speaker 3: at the position group. But they look way better than
Speaker 3: last year. And I think that they clearly have the
Speaker 3: defensive ceiling. I think that now they have a bigger
Speaker 3: offensive punch to throw. I mean, their backward offensively is phenomenal,
Speaker 3: and we know what Donovan Mitchell can do in these
Speaker 3: playoff environments where he can play like a top fifteen
Speaker 3: sort of player, But now the burden isn't quite the
Speaker 3: same on him to have to put up twenty five
Speaker 3: shots a night because there is more skill around him offensively.
Speaker 3: So Logan, you're talking about comparing them to the Knicks,
Speaker 3: I'm going to hold out before I make any declarations
Speaker 3: on that in terms of the postseason, but I think
Speaker 3: the Cavs are, like you're prototypical great regular season team
Speaker 3: with what they do defensively, and I do expect them
Speaker 3: to get that two seed. I just think fundamentally they're
Speaker 3: more talented than the Warriors. But I do love the
Speaker 3: Warriors depth. I love their depth. It's ridiculous, right. I
Speaker 3: was at the first Pelicans game without Steph, and Lindy
Speaker 3: Waters just emerges in that game as like a legitimate
Speaker 3: NBA rotation player. They just have these dudes popping up
Speaker 3: out of nowhere. And Melton was a good at Kyle
Speaker 3: Anderson was a good ad. Buddy phenomenal ad. And that's
Speaker 3: the last aspect that I really like about this Warriors
Speaker 3: team is the three point shooting. I mean, they got
Speaker 3: a lot of dudes who can really shoot out there
Speaker 3: with Buddy. With Lindy Waters playing more, Podds is going
Speaker 3: to shoot much better than he has early in the year.
Speaker 3: And I'm just a believer in pods and I'm with you,
Speaker 3: coming to going to the bench is a big deal.
Speaker 3: So I'm not underestimating the Warriors at this point. I
Speaker 3: underestimated them before the year. I thought they were a
Speaker 3: play in team. I think this team can win fifty
Speaker 3: games right now. And the crazy stat last year was
Speaker 3: with Steph on the floor, they were still an eighty
Speaker 3: second percentile offense, and the skill around him is clearly
Speaker 3: better this year and Draymond is one of those great
Speaker 3: defensive anchors and the team is totally bought in on
Speaker 3: that end. The Warriors are really good, but I do
Speaker 3: still worry about some of the size stuff against big teams.
Speaker 3: I do still worry about the lack of a real
Speaker 3: second shot creator, even though I think Buddy is playing
Speaker 3: out of his mind offensively right now. That's the thing
Speaker 3: that we've seen bite the Warriors a lot on the
Speaker 3: offensive end in recent years, and that does still concern
Speaker 3: me a little bit. And the shooting has been really good,
Speaker 3: but sometimes when you go with those Draymond TJD lineups,
Speaker 3: you just want a little more offensive skill on the floor.
Speaker 4: I think I just have more red flags about.
Speaker 3: The Warriors still, but they've been a joy to watch,
Speaker 3: and anytime that you put a good team around Steph Curry,
Speaker 3: that makes me happy to see because I was very,
Speaker 3: very discouraged about where they were at after last.
Speaker 4: Year, and I think that they've really been impressive.
Speaker 1: So I think I actually disagree with both of you
Speaker 1: guys on this one, and the main reason why is
Speaker 1: I'm looking through everything to the context of Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: and Boston. So like, if we agree that Boston and
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City are kind of head and shoulders above everybody else,
Speaker 1: and that they essentially represent the hurdles that anybody has
Speaker 1: to overcome in order to get out of their conference
Speaker 1: or to win the title. Then I'm looking through things
Speaker 1: through the context of beating those specific teams. Now that
Speaker 1: it gets complicated because you probably have to deal with
Speaker 1: different matchups on your way there, and neither Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: or Boston are particularly large on the front line in
Speaker 1: ways that could give Golden State issues or things along
Speaker 1: those lines. Right, So, like it's complicated, But the reason
Speaker 1: why I would say that I trust Golden State a
Speaker 1: little bit more is I specifically am interested in the
Speaker 1: way that their defense can match up with both Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City's offense and Boston's offense. Like, I'm super excited to
Speaker 1: watch tonight's game between Golden State and Boston. For the record,
Speaker 1: I think Boston will win. I think steps coming back
Speaker 1: from an injury, I don't think that he I think
Speaker 1: he's still even on a little bit of a minute's restriction.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they have the firepower.
Speaker 1: Boston is also extremely emotionally motivated to win that game
Speaker 1: after their kind of perceived slight surrounding the Team USA
Speaker 1: situation this summer, So like they're I'm not necessarily saying
Speaker 1: they're gonna win, but I am really curious just to
Speaker 1: see how they guard. I think Steve's gonna go in
Speaker 1: there and switch damn near everything and try to contain
Speaker 1: the ball and try to not overhelp and to try
Speaker 1: to force these guys to play one on one most
Speaker 1: of the night.
Speaker 2: And I'm just.
Speaker 1: Really curious to see how that looks. Because again, like
Speaker 1: when I look at when I look at Cleveland and
Speaker 1: I imagine them running into and I imagine them running
Speaker 1: into a team like Boston in a playoff series. It's
Speaker 1: they have such a unique gift, just like they did
Speaker 1: with Dallas in the finals last year. They are uniquely
Speaker 1: equipped to consistently expose your weak point on defense because
Speaker 1: of their depth of offensive initiation. They have so many
Speaker 1: different ways that they can initiate offense. And so like
Speaker 1: I do worry about Garland guarding in space, I do
Speaker 1: worry about teams picking on you know, if they think, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: Dean Waite really solid defender, but you know, maybe we
Speaker 1: can get dribble penetration on him if we go this way.
Speaker 1: Or that way. Donovan Mitchell is a guy too that
Speaker 1: like competes. He's physical, can apply a little bit of
Speaker 1: ball pressure, but historically not necessarily the best defensive player
Speaker 1: in the world when things are flying around, even though
Speaker 1: I think he had a really good defensive season last year.
Speaker 1: The point being there, there's just more entry points for
Speaker 1: Boston to get Cleveland into rotation, and then it becomes
Speaker 1: a simple question of like, do I think that Cleveland
Speaker 1: could ever hope to keep up with Boston offensively and
Speaker 1: the answers no. And when it comes to Golden State,
Speaker 1: like I just envisioned them as a team against both
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City and Boston as team, as a team that
Speaker 1: can play at at least four good defensive players at
Speaker 1: all times. Steph Curry is you know, he has been
Speaker 1: attacked a lot over the course of his career, and
Speaker 1: it's become something that teams do a ton. I'd like
Speaker 1: last summer, I went back and watched the Lakers series.
Speaker 1: They were going at Steph literally every single time down
Speaker 1: the floor. It's a big part of how teams look
Speaker 1: to attack the Golden State Warriors, But at the same
Speaker 1: time they can anchor him with four really good defensive
Speaker 1: players that are switchable, that can cover a ton of ground,
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, and so I look at them
Speaker 1: as a team that I think just matches up better
Speaker 1: defensively with those two teams. Now to be clear, in
Speaker 1: order for Golden State to make any sort of real noise,
Speaker 1: I think one Steph has to return to at least
Speaker 1: close to what he was when he was in his prime,
Speaker 1: which he has not shown since the middle of last season.
Speaker 1: And then two, I think that they do need to
Speaker 1: hit on a consolidation trade, something that shrinks their rotation
Speaker 1: from having thirteen playable guys to maybe ten or eleven,
Speaker 1: but you have an upgrade at backup center, or you
Speaker 1: have a foward that can really score the ball. And
Speaker 1: by the way, this is the year for that. Between
Speaker 1: Brandon Ingram being a guy that could be available, between
Speaker 1: Jeremy Grant being a guy that could be available, between
Speaker 1: Zach Lavine being a guy that could be available, like,
Speaker 1: there are just a lot of guys that could be
Speaker 1: available this year at the three to four spot as
Speaker 1: someone who's like reliably capable of scoring twenty plus points
Speaker 1: a game efficiently. And so I think, like on a
Speaker 1: real basic level, I just don't think Cleveland is capable
Speaker 1: of beating Boston, Like I think there's like almost no
Speaker 1: pathway to victory there, whereas with Golden State, I can
Speaker 1: kind of see like switching, containing, forcing turnovers, stagnating them. Oh,
Speaker 1: they hit on a couple of deals too, so they've
Speaker 1: got a little bit more firepower. And Steph Curry just
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, mentally dominates the series the way
Speaker 1: that he did in twenty twenty two. But again, to
Speaker 1: be clear, I would not pick either of those teams
Speaker 1: against Boston or Oklahoma City. I think they're on a
Speaker 1: separate tier. But if I had to pick between the
Speaker 1: two of them, I think Golden State kind of has
Speaker 1: a unique build that could challenge those two teams. Moving
Speaker 1: on to our biggest disappointment. So the two biggest disappointments
Speaker 1: to start the NBA season have been the Bucks and
Speaker 1: the Nuggets. The Nuggets are four and three, but they've
Speaker 1: lost to every good team they've played, and they barely
Speaker 1: scraped together three wins against two against Toronto and one
Speaker 1: against Brooklyn, so they've looked really bad to.
Speaker 2: Start the year.
Speaker 1: And then obviously the Bucks have been a complete and
Speaker 1: total dumpster fire and there's a good chance here that
Speaker 1: because they play the Jazz next, but then they play
Speaker 1: the Nicks and the Celtics, there's a decent chance here.
Speaker 1: We're looking at a two and eight Bucks team here
Speaker 1: in about a week and so it's been really ugly.
Speaker 1: Which of those two teams, Carson, do you think is
Speaker 1: more likely to figure things out and end up winning
Speaker 1: multiple playoff series?
Speaker 4: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: Denver, And I get people lumping these two teams together
Speaker 3: as like, whoa super disappointing concerning Oh, they have both
Speaker 3: been disappointing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they've both struggled, But I.
Speaker 3: Think that what's going on in Milwaukee is more concerning,
Speaker 3: unequivocally and more permanent to me. I just think that
Speaker 3: their defense is irreparably broken, and that was the case
Speaker 3: last year, and I think that that remains the case
Speaker 3: this year. I'm not worried about the offense with Milwaukee.
Speaker 3: Their offense was great last year. You swap out Malik
Speaker 3: Beasley for Gary Trent Junior, right, you still got elite
Speaker 3: spot up shooting there. You have Damon Jannis and you
Speaker 3: get Chris Middleton on the floor, super skilled offensive group.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure they can be a top twenty defense, though,
Speaker 3: and that is bad and you have zero hope of contending.
Speaker 4: If that is the case.
Speaker 3: They are just embarrassingly unathletic around Jannis, and they're embarrassingly
Speaker 3: unfocused around Jannis. The point of attack defense is a
Speaker 3: complete disaster. We knew that was a case. I thought
Speaker 3: we might see marginal improvement, getting Gary Trent Junior in
Speaker 3: there and getting Delawn Wright some bench minutes, but hasn't
Speaker 3: looked better at all. And I just think these defensive
Speaker 3: problems are endemic to them now. Nothing has gotten better
Speaker 3: from last year for Milwaukee. This is who they are.
Speaker 3: And I thought we might see some slight improvement on
Speaker 3: that end. And then I was optimistic about a bit
Speaker 3: of a Dame bounce back. And I think that we're
Speaker 3: seeing a bit of a Dame bounce back. That just
Speaker 3: doesn't matter. You can have this overwhelming duo if you
Speaker 3: are this bad in this unserious on the defensive end,
Speaker 3: and this poorly coached, by the way, I'm not worried
Speaker 3: about the offense, but there are still these stretches just
Speaker 3: in terms of the offensive direction where they feel aimless
Speaker 3: and they feel a bit disjointed. I'm just out on Milwaukee.
Speaker 3: I thought that they would be a little bit better
Speaker 3: than last year. They were still my fourth team in
Speaker 3: the East. But now you hold them up against a Cleveland,
Speaker 3: I take Cleveland, you hold them up against maybe a
Speaker 3: healthy Orlando. Like I don't want to undersell that things
Speaker 3: will get better. Of course, they are missing one of
Speaker 3: their best players, and they do have Damon Giannis, but
Speaker 3: this is a permanent, major problem that they have that
Speaker 3: I don't think is getting better. On the flip side
Speaker 3: with Denver, yes, there are some things that aren't going
Speaker 3: to get better, the biggest one being the bench unless
Speaker 3: they make a move, unless they're able to add a
Speaker 3: bench shooter. But clearly that unit has stro buggled mightily.
Speaker 3: The backup center situation is disastrous. There's a clear lack
Speaker 3: of shooting in the second unit. And Russ, who's now
Speaker 3: been starting the last couple games with Jamal Murray hurt.
Speaker 3: But he was brutal early in the year, and he's
Speaker 3: had a couple nice games, but he's still shooting twenty
Speaker 3: nine percent on the year right and there's been some
Speaker 3: catastrophic decision making from him. I do think that he's
Speaker 3: going to play better, though, I think that he's a
Speaker 3: clear upgrade from Reggie Jackson last year, just with what
Speaker 3: he brings athletically, what he can do defensively, what he
Speaker 3: can do pushing the tempo and transition and playmaking. The
Speaker 3: bench will remain bad, but as I have said countless
Speaker 3: times this year now, Denver's bench was bad last year.
Speaker 3: Denver's bench has been consistently bad in the Jokic era,
Speaker 3: with the exception of the title team right because they
Speaker 3: had Bruce Brown and Christian Brown was able to step
Speaker 3: a bit bit in that run. It still wasn't a
Speaker 3: very good bench though, like that's always been a struggle
Speaker 3: for them.
Speaker 4: The strength of this team.
Speaker 3: Has always been will always be having the best player
Speaker 3: on the planet and having an elite starting five. And
Speaker 3: although I think that KCP is better than Christian Brown,
Speaker 3: and I think he brings one specifically important thing for
Speaker 3: this offense, which is one of the lowest volume three
Speaker 3: point shooting teams in basketball, which was that he could
Speaker 3: reliably step into five threes a game and make forty
Speaker 3: percent of them. Christian Brown shooting the ball efficiently this year,
Speaker 3: but he's attempting under three threes a night and just
Speaker 3: effectively for spacing. It's not the same impact. We know
Speaker 3: that he's getting more confident, but he is still more
Speaker 3: hesitant to take those shots. But I think Christian Brown
Speaker 3: is a dog. I mean, I think he's a really
Speaker 3: good basketball player. It's just that one aspect, the shooting
Speaker 3: that is a question mark. But athletically defensively in transition,
Speaker 3: as a cutter, as a rebounder for his size, like,
Speaker 3: the dude just makes impact plays.
Speaker 4: So then you look at.
Speaker 3: Some of the other causes of their early season struggles
Speaker 3: and it's like they've been pretty unserious on the defensive end, right,
Speaker 3: they haven't been engaged there. Do I think that that
Speaker 3: is permanently the case for Denver.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 3: We saw the level they defended at in the title run.
Speaker 3: We saw them together a top ten defense last year.
Speaker 3: I don't think KCP to Christian Brown is a significant
Speaker 3: downgrade on the defensive end. They've just been unfocused and
Speaker 3: they've been lazy on the defensive end. I think that
Speaker 3: that is going to get better. Jamal Murray horrible so
Speaker 3: far this year, and now he's hurt. I understand that
Speaker 3: he's been struggling for a good chunk of a calendar
Speaker 3: year now and that the playoffs were horrible and the
Speaker 3: Olympics were horrible. I still think he's going to bounce back,
Speaker 3: and for the playoffs in the Olympics, I do think
Speaker 3: the calf injury was a significant factor there. I think
Speaker 3: we're going to get a better version of Jamal Murray
Speaker 3: as this year goes on. So it's like last game
Speaker 3: they have to play without Aaron Gordon, right he gets
Speaker 3: hurt just a few minutes into it. MPJ was really
Speaker 3: struggling early in the year. He's now playing a good
Speaker 3: bit better. But I believe in that starting five. I
Speaker 3: love their offensive formula. I think that the Jamal Jokic
Speaker 3: two man game is still the best in basketball. I
Speaker 3: think Aaron Gordon is a phenomenal fitness offense in the
Speaker 3: dunker spot. MPJ is an elite spot up shooter. Christian
Speaker 3: Brown is good enough offensively to still make this an
Speaker 3: elite offense.
Speaker 4: And just don't underestimate Nikole Yolkic. Man is kind of
Speaker 4: all I can say.
Speaker 3: He's giving you thirty thirteen and ten out there on
Speaker 3: sixty five percent true shooting. His three ball has come back,
Speaker 3: which is big because that was a question throughout the
Speaker 3: home stretch of last year, and I still think that
Speaker 3: that is just an unrivaled weapon that no team has
Speaker 3: an answer for. So, as we talked about earlier, ok
Speaker 3: See has separated from Denver. Nobody else has, though, And
Speaker 3: I've seen a lot of ringing the alarm bells and
Speaker 3: panicking with Denver and saying this team is going to
Speaker 3: be scrapping to make it into the playoffs, which I
Speaker 3: understand because every game has been so ugly. But I
Speaker 3: think this team is going to look significantly better. I
Speaker 3: still think it's a great starting five. And look around, like,
Speaker 3: has Minnesota really impressed you? Has Dallas really impressed you?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: These other teams you would have thought were in the mix,
Speaker 3: have they ascended past Denver?
Speaker 4: Not?
Speaker 3: In my eyes, I'm gonna bet on the formula with
Speaker 3: that starting five. I'm gonna bet on the formula with
Speaker 3: Nikola Jokic, and I think that they have a good
Speaker 3: bit more room for improvements to look better than Milwaukee does.
Speaker 6: Shocker, the pro Yoky gives a pro Jokic drop again,
Speaker 6: I'm so surprised. I think the Nuggets are flawed as well,
Speaker 6: and I think the game that really hammered it home
Speaker 6: to me was the Nets game. We talked about this
Speaker 6: a little bit on our show, Carson, But watching Cam
Speaker 6: Thomas and Dennis Schroeder just attack Jamal Murray and crunch
Speaker 6: time like That's my biggest area of concern with the
Speaker 6: Nuggets is just you can only put Christian Brown on
Speaker 6: one guy, and I really worry about them containing dribble
Speaker 6: penetration and just holding up defensively, but not to not.
Speaker 5: To pile on.
Speaker 6: But Nikola Jokicic did carry a team to the second
Speaker 6: round in twenty twenty one, flanked by Fakundo Compazo and
Speaker 6: Austin Rivers. So if there is a guy that I'm
Speaker 6: gonna bank on, you know, going further with his supporting
Speaker 6: cast underperforming, it would be Nicola Jokic. And I do
Speaker 6: think the Bucks are a dumpster fire. I found this
Speaker 6: stat on Twitter. The Bucks have started one in six
Speaker 6: of teams that have started one in six in a seat,
Speaker 6: and that's one hundred and fifty NBA team since nineteen seventy.
Speaker 6: Just twelve of them made the playoffs, five of them
Speaker 6: had a losing record, and none of those teams won
Speaker 6: more than forty seven games. So the Bucks are fighting
Speaker 6: and uphill battle against a.
Speaker 5: Pretty significant historical precedent.
Speaker 6: And you look at these last two losses against Cleveland Man,
Speaker 6: back to back losses, you lose by three combined points.
Speaker 5: It feels like.
Speaker 6: Almost like a turning point for the Bucks in this season,
Speaker 6: right if they come out on the other side of
Speaker 6: those games. Those are decided by a few possessions three
Speaker 6: total points. One shot goes the other way on both sides,
Speaker 6: and the Bucks could have won both of those games.
Speaker 6: They're just demoralizing that. You know, you've just got to
Speaker 6: feel so beat down after those games. Damian Lillard, give
Speaker 6: you thirty six and forty one in both of those
Speaker 6: games and you come up short. Carson, I can't remember
Speaker 6: how you phrased it, but I also wrote down this
Speaker 6: team is impressively unathletic, like it's kind of funny and Jason,
Speaker 6: you talked about earlier in the show, how the game
Speaker 6: is shifted to these speedy teams, these athletic teams that
Speaker 6: play fast, they play upbeat games that keep you in games.
Speaker 6: The Bucks almost feel like a dinosaur in that way.
Speaker 6: In four years, their style of playing basketball in the
Speaker 6: way he is almost gone extinct, Like they just can't
Speaker 6: win like this. Brook Lopez is completely immobile. He's a
Speaker 6: shell of himself. You got AJ Green defending Darius Garland
Speaker 6: in crunch time. Ironically, AJ Green might be their best
Speaker 6: perimeter defender.
Speaker 5: Guys, that's a problem.
Speaker 6: Like you talk about the late game, like miscommunications, Dude,
Speaker 6: there's one bucket in that game where I can't remember.
Speaker 6: Somebody sets a screen on AJ Green. Damian Lillard does
Speaker 6: not even shift over to switch, and they give Darius
Speaker 6: Garland a free lane to the hoop for a free layup.
Speaker 6: It's like there's defensive personnel limitations obviously, but this is
Speaker 6: a team that's poorly coached, that is just not equipped
Speaker 6: to win games right now. The depth is horrible, And
Speaker 6: I understand that Chris Middleton is out right. I think
Speaker 6: that's what I guess bucks fan would push back with, Oh, well,
Speaker 6: Chris Middleton isn't out there. Chris Middleton can come back
Speaker 6: and help you win some games, but he doesn't fix
Speaker 6: all of the problems that are here in Milwaukee. Yeah,
Speaker 6: I'm out on Milwaukee. I've been on out on Milwaukee
Speaker 6: since they hired Doc Rivers. He's twenty and thirty as
Speaker 6: a head coach. Adrian Griffin was thirty and thirteen don't
Speaker 6: get me wrong. Man, if Adrian Griffin was out here,
Speaker 6: I don't think that makes any bit of a difference.
Speaker 6: But they're poorly coached. This is a bad roster. And yeah,
Speaker 6: as you're talking about with the stylistical change in basketball now, Jason,
Speaker 6: this shift to a different methodology of winning games, I
Speaker 6: think the Bucks are extinct.
Speaker 5: They just feel like a relic of a bygone era.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would blame the coaching staff for a good
Speaker 1: portion of Milwaukee's issues right now. The defensive personnel stuff
Speaker 1: is real. But I've seen bad defenses, or I should say,
Speaker 1: I should clarify, I've seen teams that have bad defensive
Speaker 1: personnel put together coherent defenses through attention to detail and accountability.
Speaker 1: And that's the main thing you talked about. The driving
Speaker 1: lay at that Darius Garland had on that screening action.
Speaker 1: You could put together a low light reel that is
Speaker 1: over an hour long to this point of the season
Speaker 1: on like just comical defensive breakdowns from the Milwaukee Bucks,
Speaker 1: even including good players. I think Brook Lopez is having
Speaker 1: a bad defensive season. I think Giannis is having a
Speaker 1: bad defensive season. Delon Wright is a professional defender. The
Speaker 1: dude's got like a low light reel of him making
Speaker 1: mistakes and losing guys off the dribble. Like there, Gary
Speaker 1: Trent Junior was legitimately a better even with his limitations
Speaker 1: and he's not a good perimeter defender, but he was
Speaker 1: better than Malik Beasley, and he hasn't been good to
Speaker 1: start this year, and so I think, like I think
Speaker 1: the coaching staff plays a significant role in it. I
Speaker 1: think for the purposes of the question, which team do
Speaker 1: I think is more likely to figure it out and
Speaker 1: win multiple playoff series? I think I'd probably lean towards Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: just simply because the East is so bad and so
Speaker 1: like there's a better chance of them like catching a
Speaker 1: pretty flawed team in the first round and maybe beating
Speaker 1: them and then who knows what happens in round two, Whereas,
Speaker 1: like Denver, to me, right now, I think they could
Speaker 1: be in a tough spot in the standings because of
Speaker 1: the way the West works, with Aaron Gordon being out
Speaker 1: for a while now, with Jamal Murray being hurt, with
Speaker 1: their issues on the bench, I think they're going to
Speaker 1: have a really hard time winning games over the next
Speaker 1: month or so. And if they're if they go into
Speaker 1: they go into December, a few games below five hundred,
Speaker 1: it could be really really difficult for them to get
Speaker 1: out of that play in picture, and that's where it
Speaker 1: starts to look like, Okay, are they going to end
Speaker 1: up facing Oklahoma City or one of these higher powered
Speaker 1: Western Conference teams in the first round or that could
Speaker 1: be an issue, whereas like Milwaukee could end up catching
Speaker 1: somebody that's a little more beatable in the first round.
Speaker 1: And so to be clear, I think Denver's a better
Speaker 1: basketball team than Milwaukee.
Speaker 2: I think I like, I've.
Speaker 1: Never been as high on Giannis as everyone else is,
Speaker 1: but even with Yannis, like, I think that we're reaching
Speaker 1: a point in his career where he's not as incredibly
Speaker 1: impactful on the defensive end as he used to be,
Speaker 1: and I still on the offensive end, I just think
Speaker 1: that he's not at the same level as some of
Speaker 1: these top guys in terms of really picking defenses apart
Speaker 1: in the half court. Again, Giannis is still top five player.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say that he doesn't bring that impact,
Speaker 1: But like, I just think Denver's better. I think Yoki
Speaker 1: is better. I think that their starting lineup is better.
Speaker 1: I think they're more well coached. I would take Mike
Speaker 1: Malone over Doc Rivers any day of the week. So like,
Speaker 1: but just for the purposes of the question, I'm really
Speaker 1: worried that Denver is going to be on the road
Speaker 1: in the first round against a really good team and
Speaker 1: that they could be looking at a first round exit here.
Speaker 1: But then again, you could also talk me into the
Speaker 1: Bucks missing the playoffs entirely with how ugly things are going.
Speaker 3: Point is a good one with Denver though, because this
Speaker 3: is one of the teams it's least equipped in all
Speaker 3: of basketball to handle injuries to two of their starters, right, Like,
Speaker 3: that's the entire formula, and if you're without both those
Speaker 3: dudes for multiple weeks, that's a problem. Like, we saw
Speaker 3: some good stuff from the young guys in their last game.
Speaker 3: Julian Strauther was impressive. Peyton Watson was good. He was
Speaker 3: actually able to make a three, which is everything for him.
Speaker 3: If he pick three, big three, wide open, but big three,
Speaker 3: like high pressure. If he could do that, he'd be
Speaker 3: a hell of a role player. It's just unfortunately I
Speaker 3: don't think that he can with any sort of consistency.
Speaker 3: And it's tough because, like I feel like the Nuggets
Speaker 3: were starting to figure out some stuff with the bench
Speaker 3: stagger right, playing mpjmore with the second unit, and even
Speaker 3: playing Yolkic with like sort of a mixed group.
Speaker 4: But like when.
Speaker 3: Aaron Gordon and Jamal Murray are both that out, you
Speaker 3: just need a Yolkic superhero performance every night, which I
Speaker 3: do think is possible. But that is true in terms
Speaker 3: of the seating, Like I think a lot of people
Speaker 3: overreacted in panic to the early stretch of the year
Speaker 3: because like Jokic just gets you to win fifty games, right,
Speaker 3: That's what he did in twenty twenty one. That's the
Speaker 3: pace they were on in twenty twenty two when he
Speaker 3: was on the floor. But the depth is not something
Speaker 3: you want to be tested like this in Denver.
Speaker 1: And the depth of the conference is greater than at
Speaker 1: this point. Like I mean, like Houston's just a pain
Speaker 1: in the butt. I don't think Houston's went in a
Speaker 1: playoff series, but they're pain in the butt, Like San
Speaker 1: Antonio is scrappy just because of Victor Women. Yama is
Speaker 1: starting to get it figured out and he's just such
Speaker 1: a good defensive player, Like everyone is just scrappy. The
Speaker 1: Clippers are not an easy game. Like the Clippers. It's
Speaker 1: like they're gonna defend like crazy and James Harden's going
Speaker 1: to keep them close and who knows what will happen
Speaker 1: at the end, right Like they've been in They've been
Speaker 1: in almost every game this year, so like, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's just tricky. But again, like that for the
Speaker 1: purposes of the question, though, like the Eastern Conference just
Speaker 1: has so many cupcake opponents. I wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 1: if a Milwaukee gained some momentum and themselves selves in
Speaker 1: like a four or five six seed and finds themselves
Speaker 1: with an achievable first round matchup. All right, let's move
Speaker 1: on to our next question, and we'll start with you,
Speaker 1: Carson on this one. Are sitting with Logan on this one?
Speaker 1: Who is more likely to make a deep playoff run
Speaker 1: this year? The Dallas Mavericks or the Los Angeles Lakers.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna take the Mavericks.
Speaker 6: I like the Lakers a good bit more than I
Speaker 6: did last year, and it starts with the coaching, Like
Speaker 6: I just like JJ Reddicks so much more than Darvin
Speaker 6: Ham like just the they're the little stuff in their offense.
Speaker 6: Man like the deliberate offensive actions that the Lakers are
Speaker 6: running late into games. I can't remember which one it
Speaker 6: was the other day, but they dumped the ball to
Speaker 6: Lebron on the left wing in like a post up
Speaker 6: sort of situation, and Anthony Davis sets a pin down
Speaker 6: screen for Austin Reeves to run off of for an
Speaker 6: easy cut to the bucket and basket. And it's like,
Speaker 6: oh my gosh, who knew that using three players in
Speaker 6: a play could create a you know, could manufacture an
Speaker 6: easy look?
Speaker 5: What an idea?
Speaker 6: There's so many more deliberate and like nuance. There's so
Speaker 6: much more like deliberate actions to the offense and nuance
Speaker 6: to it that I like more. I love Dalton Connect.
Speaker 6: That dude is a freaking bucket, Like real.
Speaker 5: Quick, isn't a side? But before I get deeper into this,
Speaker 5: do you guys.
Speaker 6: Think Dalton Connect with like enough minutes, could he be
Speaker 6: like a twenty point per game score?
Speaker 3: Is that ludicrous to say enough minutes for the Washington Wizards?
Speaker 4: Maybe?
Speaker 5: All right?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, you know how you seed him?
Speaker 1: I think I think Dalton could average twenty in the NBA.
Speaker 1: I think he's I think he's a professional scorer. I
Speaker 1: think that he's a long way from being like good
Speaker 1: enough to do that on a good team.
Speaker 6: Though true, I think I agree with that, but that
Speaker 6: guy is just wired to get buckets man like he's
Speaker 6: He's such a good addition to this team.
Speaker 5: But my issue.
Speaker 6: Isn't really with the offense here in LA I think
Speaker 6: the offense is going to be good. Anthony Davis has
Speaker 6: been having a phenomenal year this year, but it's more
Speaker 6: to do with the herculean task than Anthony Davis has
Speaker 6: of being a one man defense here. I think that
Speaker 6: having d Loan Reeves is your point of attack guards
Speaker 6: defensively is a problem.
Speaker 5: I don't think Hotchi murrays.
Speaker 2: Boys absolutely fried to start the year.
Speaker 6: It's it's really rough, and so asking him to overcome
Speaker 6: that is a big ask. And you know Dallas is
Speaker 6: in a similar boat, like when you have Kyrie and
Speaker 6: Luca and Clay right, but it's not as bad. But
Speaker 6: when you have forty eight minutes of quality, you know,
Speaker 6: center play from Gaffer and Lively, they can make up
Speaker 6: for a defense. When you have a PJ. Washington, when
Speaker 6: you have a Naji Marshall. Right, So it's close between
Speaker 6: these two teams. The thing that puts the Mavericks over
Speaker 6: the top, to me is two things, and that's one.
Speaker 6: It's Luka Doncic. I mean, he's the best player on
Speaker 6: either of these two teams. I just trust him to
Speaker 6: go superhuman when his team needs him. The guy's just
Speaker 6: a gamer in the big moments. I trust him more
Speaker 6: than anybody on these two teams. Again, Okay, actually with Lebron,
Speaker 6: I don't know if I can still say. I know
Speaker 6: Lebron can crank it up when they needs to, but
Speaker 6: lucas special. And then it is the introduction to Klay Thompson,
Speaker 6: like the fact that he brings this offense up another
Speaker 6: level than it even was last year. Right, LUKEA and
Speaker 6: Kyrie could go crazy and take turns passing the baton
Speaker 6: between one another in the playoffs last year. But Clay
Speaker 6: just gives them a more steadying presence, a guy that
Speaker 6: can knock down shots at a high level that is
Speaker 6: going to get force fed really easy looks, and he
Speaker 6: just knows how to move within the flow of the offense.
Speaker 5: He's such a big addition to them.
Speaker 6: So it is close between these two teams, But to me,
Speaker 6: it's the defensive gap I just trust Dallas's defense a
Speaker 6: little more. I think LA just has two glaring liabilities
Speaker 6: in their defense, and then it is the introduction to
Speaker 6: Klay Thompson. So it's really close between these two teams,
Speaker 6: but I think I would take Dallas.
Speaker 4: I also think it's close.
Speaker 3: I would also take Dallas, though both these teams have
Speaker 3: a lot of offensive firepower. I'm with you Logan on
Speaker 3: the Lakers offense under JJ Redick. I think it's awesome.
Speaker 3: I think the level that Anthony Davis is playing at
Speaker 3: offensively is outstanding, and I do think that their offensive
Speaker 3: supporting cast is and always has been good.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: The fact that Delo and Ruy shit themselves in the
Speaker 3: playoffs last year is not characteristic of the level of
Speaker 3: offensive players they are. I get that Delo has done
Speaker 3: it in back to back postseasons now, but like he
Speaker 3: was also a really really good regular season offensive player
Speaker 3: last year. He's frustrating what he is skilled and he's
Speaker 3: better than what.
Speaker 2: He was years ago.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3: Rue is just a really good, complimentary offensive piece. It
Speaker 3: was crazy to me how awful he was against Denver
Speaker 3: last year. And both these teams have two bona fide
Speaker 3: stars in LA's case Superstars, Right, I get that Lebron
Speaker 3: isn't playing at that level right now, but come seasons, yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that he's going to get there. Right, It's
Speaker 3: Lebron James. We've seen what he's done in basically every
Speaker 3: high stake situation in every playoff series. We know that
Speaker 3: he can get to that level. So there's definitely some
Speaker 3: similarities in terms of the strengths. I just think I
Speaker 3: trust Dallas's defense and depth a bit more. I think
Speaker 3: both these teams have their issues at the point of attack.
Speaker 3: I think it is significantly worse with LA. I mean, Logan,
Speaker 3: you mentioned what you have with Reeves and Dilo right
Speaker 3: being your primary point of attack defenders, but Ruey is
Speaker 3: rough defensively, and the entire Lakers transition defense is just.
Speaker 4: Such a disaster.
Speaker 3: The entire defense around Anthony Davis is just really really rough,
Speaker 3: And like it's not surprising that they're bad in transition
Speaker 3: because they have been for years, but like it's brutal nonetheless,
Speaker 3: and all those limitations around AD aren't going anywhere unless
Speaker 3: they make a move. And I know that everybody says,
Speaker 3: well Vando, Vando comes back, He's still like unplayable offensively,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I just don't think that that's like
Speaker 3: the ace in the hole that some people think it is.
Speaker 3: And so, although I do have some concerns about Dallas's
Speaker 3: point of attack defense, they do have an Aie Marshall
Speaker 3: who you can deploy for twenty five minutes to night,
Speaker 3: who's a really good all around role player and a
Speaker 3: really good perimeter defender. And they do have PJ and
Speaker 3: Gafford slash lively for forty eight minutes in the front court.
Speaker 3: So you do have to be a better defensive front court.
Speaker 3: As much as I love Ad and Lebron will do
Speaker 3: his job as a low man in the playoffs, Like,
Speaker 3: I still think what you're getting from Dallas is definitely
Speaker 3: more consistent defensively. You have Maxi Kleebo, who you can
Speaker 3: put out there in your front court. Defensively, they just
Speaker 3: have more dudes there. And I have been underwhelmed with
Speaker 3: the Lakers bench. I looked at it on paper before
Speaker 3: the year and I was okay with it. I love
Speaker 3: Dalton connect I thought that he was the most polished
Speaker 3: scorer in this draft, and I think you've immediately seen
Speaker 3: that value from him. But I was more optimistic about
Speaker 3: Max Christi in terms of what he could bring as
Speaker 3: a two way player. He's really struggled offensively. Gabe Vincent
Speaker 3: has really struggled offensively. I think he'll get better, Right,
Speaker 3: we know what he is. He's a solid bench point guard.
Speaker 3: Jackson Hayes has actually probably a little better than I expected,
Speaker 3: but I just don't think that he's that good at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, So I've been underwhelmed with
Speaker 3: the bench.
Speaker 4: I do think it's possible that you just.
Speaker 3: Get a dominant AD series and Lebron steps it up
Speaker 3: and the shooting is on fire in La can go
Speaker 3: on a run. But I think Dallas's formula is a
Speaker 3: bit more dependable because they're more serious defensively, and now
Speaker 3: that offense with Clay is significantly more serious to me
Speaker 3: than it was last year. Right, They've really rode their
Speaker 3: defense on that run to the Finals in a lot
Speaker 3: of ways, and the spot up shooting was so so questionable.
Speaker 3: Clay alone is such a massive upgrade from what you
Speaker 3: were getting on the wings for Dallas last year. I
Speaker 3: don't think that they were your typical finals caliber team
Speaker 3: last year. So, like I do think it's important to
Speaker 3: put that in perspective, because if I think they're a
Speaker 3: little better than last year, that doesn't mean that I
Speaker 3: think that they're like emerging as a jugger not now.
Speaker 3: I just think they're really good, and I do prefer
Speaker 3: them to LA a bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're in lockstep on this one. I think the
Speaker 1: Mavericks are definitely more likely to make a deep playoff run.
Speaker 1: There's you can talk yourself in or out of both
Speaker 1: of these teams. They both have the exact same weakness
Speaker 1: in my opinion, which is their slow on the perimeter.
Speaker 1: I think losing Derek Jones Junior and losing Josh Green
Speaker 1: were substantial losses in terms of like the speed, the
Speaker 1: ability to cover ground. Naji Marshall is a good point
Speaker 1: of attack defender. He's a decent athlete, but he's not
Speaker 1: like a fly around crazy athlete like I think Josh
Speaker 1: Green was a better athlete than him. So like the
Speaker 1: like in PACER's game, perfect example, the Pacers just ran
Speaker 1: circles around him in that game in transition and in
Speaker 1: the half court to get to whatever they want. I
Speaker 1: think you can talk yourself in a massive upside with
Speaker 1: both teams like that, Like Dallas just all you really
Speaker 1: have to do is follow the formula from last year,
Speaker 1: and you know, kind of talked about all of the
Speaker 1: offensive upside that comes from incorporating Klay Thompson. They have
Speaker 1: added some more five out concept this year, although they're
Speaker 1: not using them as much as I'd like to. There's
Speaker 1: been a little bit of like they do this a
Speaker 1: lot when Luca's on the bench, where they'll basically start
Speaker 1: running that cross action where basically they'll have Lively catch
Speaker 1: at the top of the key and they'll have the
Speaker 1: two guards screen for each other and then cut off
Speaker 1: of it, and then they'll if they don't get anything
Speaker 1: out of it, they'll flow into dhos out of that,
Speaker 1: which is a five out concept that I've seen some
Speaker 1: good stuff, but they just don't lean on it as much.
Speaker 1: They've kind of just fallen back into more or less
Speaker 1: what they've done last year, which is spamming high ball
Speaker 1: screen actions, whether it's stack or double drag or things
Speaker 1: along those lines. But like the main reason why I
Speaker 1: would lean Dallas over the Lakers is one I think
Speaker 1: Luca's better than everybody on the Lakers. For the record,
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis has played better than Luca at this point,
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis has played better than everybody in the league
Speaker 1: to this point, really except for Jokic maybe, and like
Speaker 1: he's just he's hooping, but like already starting to show
Speaker 1: some signs of him getting banged up a little bit.
Speaker 1: And the thing with Ad is, like I still think
Speaker 1: kind of like what we saw in the Cavs game
Speaker 1: is things kind.
Speaker 2: Of ramp up physically.
Speaker 1: He does have a tendency to be a little bit
Speaker 1: more inconsistent on the offensive end of the floor. So
Speaker 1: like I'm not as high on him as I am
Speaker 1: on Luca, and then Dallas is just deeper. They have
Speaker 1: more good basketball players. You could argue about the starting
Speaker 1: lineup here or there. The Lakers do have a very
Speaker 1: good starting lineup, but like the ability to have two
Speaker 1: legitimate fives that can anchor significant portions of the game.
Speaker 1: I mean, they really have a third five two with
Speaker 1: Kliba if they want to go smaller. If you call
Speaker 1: Kaliba your backup for PJ. Washington and Maxic Kleba, is
Speaker 1: a better four man rotation than like Ruy and Van Doo,
Speaker 1: for instance, if you're looking past the Stars, although obviously
Speaker 1: Lebron James is a factor there the Klay Thompson piece, Like,
Speaker 1: there's no doubt that he's not the athlete that Derek
Speaker 1: Jones was in his ability to cover ground and transition
Speaker 1: in rotation is not the same, but he's just so
Speaker 1: much better offensively that you could talk me into a
Speaker 1: give and take there where it's more or less the same. So, like,
Speaker 1: do I think Dallas is as good as Maverick? Fans
Speaker 1: think that the MAVs are like a top tier contender?
Speaker 1: Do I agree with that? No, I'm with you, Carson.
Speaker 1: I think they were a team that broke through the
Speaker 1: conference last year, but I didn't view them as a
Speaker 1: team that was on the same tier as Boston. I
Speaker 1: picked Boston in that series, and I picked Boston to
Speaker 1: blow them out, and they did. But that said, like
Speaker 1: when I look past the top tier and I look
Speaker 1: at the rest of the Western Conference, to me, there's
Speaker 1: not a team like Denver's. Denver is a weird one,
Speaker 1: like we talked about earlier with their weird start, but
Speaker 1: going into the season, beneath Denver and Oklahoma City, to me,
Speaker 1: Dallas was clearly better than Phoenix, clearly better than the Lakers,
Speaker 1: clearly better than Minnesota, Clearly better than the teams that
Speaker 1: are in that kind of middle tier in the conference.
Speaker 1: I think it's it'll remain to be seen whether or
Speaker 1: not they kind of hit an even higher offensive ceiling
Speaker 1: in the large sample. I'm hoping that in time they
Speaker 1: continue to explore some of the ball and player movement
Speaker 1: stuff that they did in the early part of the season.
Speaker 1: But I certainly think that they're more likely to make
Speaker 1: a deep playoff run than the Lakers. On the Lakers' front,
Speaker 1: this is all I'll say. Like, if you would have
Speaker 1: told me coming into the season, oh, they're four and three,
Speaker 1: with their tough schedule that they played to start, I
Speaker 1: would have been thrilled. Would have been like, that's amazing. Obviously,
Speaker 1: it's manifested different than I would have expected. I would
Speaker 1: have expected them to drop one of those first three games,
Speaker 1: and I would have expected them to beat the Pistons, right,
Speaker 1: But like, they're four and three, they're sitting in a
Speaker 1: good spot. But I'm actually coming out of it lower
Speaker 1: on them than I was to start the season. And
Speaker 1: the main reason why is just my overarching philosophy on
Speaker 1: the game that has shifted a little bit in the
Speaker 1: early part of the season. In terms of my prioritization
Speaker 1: of perimeter speed and the fact that I just think
Speaker 1: the Lakers are really slow. They desperately needed Max Christy
Speaker 1: to pop. He's been bad. He's just he does not
Speaker 1: understand and accept who he is as a basketball player.
Speaker 1: What he is is a basketball player, is a guy
Speaker 1: who should take catch and shoot threes in maybe one
Speaker 1: dribble decisions, meaning whether it's a slash to the bucket
Speaker 1: or a quick driving kick, but he thinks he should
Speaker 1: run action. He put it to the ball in the
Speaker 1: floor multiple times and over penetrates and tries to dunk
Speaker 1: on everybody. And he just, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 1: he's an incredibly immature offensive basketball player. And so I
Speaker 1: don't think, like I'm not a big Cam Reddish fan,
Speaker 1: but with how bad Max has looked, I almost think
Speaker 1: you have to play Cam over him. They needed Vando
Speaker 1: to get healthy. I'm higher on Vanda offensively than you are, Carson,
Speaker 1: just because the last time we saw him with the Lakers,
Speaker 1: they weren't running this offense. They were sticking him in
Speaker 1: the corner. That's obviously going to be a very poor
Speaker 1: way to use him. But if they use him as
Speaker 1: a screener and as a roller and as a cutter
Speaker 1: like they did before he got hurt last year. I
Speaker 1: actually think he's less of a negative on the offensive
Speaker 1: end of the floor and he brings the desperately needed
Speaker 1: perimeter athleticism that they need. But he's been hurt and
Speaker 1: he's not been able to stay on the floor for
Speaker 1: any extended stretch for a very long time. So, like,
Speaker 1: as I look at the Lakers roster and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Gabe is somewhat fast, but he's really small, and the
Speaker 1: dude literally cannot put the ball in the basket. It's
Speaker 1: the craziest thing, Like he just cannot score. Then Max,
Speaker 1: who is an incredibly immature offensive player, and vanderhu can't
Speaker 1: stay healthy. Those are your fast guys. That's the speed
Speaker 1: on this roster. So like that, that's where I really
Speaker 1: start to get concerned about them in the big picture.
Speaker 1: The one thing with the Lakers is they have multiple
Speaker 1: expiring deals. Delo's deal is expiring now, the Jalen hood
Speaker 1: Chafino deal is expiring, so they have an opportunity to
Speaker 1: potentially make a deal, and they can. They have draft
Speaker 1: compensation that they can use, but they need to like
Speaker 1: absolutely nail whatever deadline deals that they make, and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of talk about them looking for a backup center.
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have an upgrade
Speaker 1: of Jackson Hayes, but he's so far down on their
Speaker 1: list of problems right now with their issues on the perimeter.
Speaker 1: I also think that they'll play better at this last
Speaker 1: thing I'll say. I also think they'll play like. The
Speaker 1: Lakers are four and three against a really tough schedule
Speaker 1: to start, and a lot of their guys aren't playing well.
Speaker 1: Austin's been really good in some games, but he's been
Speaker 1: really bad in some games. I thought it's I thought
Speaker 1: the Pistons game was the worst defensive game of his career.
Speaker 1: Ruyat Tamura has been really good some games, really bad
Speaker 1: some games. Lebron James for the most part, has been
Speaker 1: down to start the year. Nobody on the bench is
Speaker 1: playing well except for maybe Dalton, and even then it's
Speaker 1: I think it's been some mixed results. So like, they
Speaker 1: have a lot of guys not really playing well right now.
Speaker 1: So like, I do think that the Lakers will get better.
Speaker 1: I think that they're going to be a good regular
Speaker 1: season team, Like I think that I think through fifteen
Speaker 1: games they'll be ten and five, maybe even maybe even
Speaker 1: eleven and four. We'll see. Like I think they're going
Speaker 1: to be fine. It's just in terms of their big
Speaker 1: picture goals and what they.
Speaker 2: Want to achieve.
Speaker 1: I think this roster is deeply faught and I have
Speaker 1: some concerns for them. We're over an hour, so I
Speaker 1: want to get move into this last topic. I really
Speaker 1: wanted to spend some time on the Phoenix Suns today,
Speaker 1: so let's get into this. A little bit different Phoenix
Speaker 1: Suns team than we saw last year. Their sixteenth in offense,
Speaker 1: sixth in defense, eighth and net rating couple of big differences.
Speaker 1: Last year they were fourteenth, and assists percentage only sixty
Speaker 1: four percent of their baskets were assisted. This year they're
Speaker 1: up to fifth. Sixty nine percent of their baskets have
Speaker 1: been assisted to start this year, a lot more driving kick,
Speaker 1: their three point volume is way up. They're contending better physically.
Speaker 1: Last year they were twentieth in defensive rebounding this year
Speaker 1: their sixth. Cleaning the glass has a stat they used
Speaker 1: to track transition defense called points added per one hundred possessions.
Speaker 1: Is basically a combination of frequency and efficiency with transition.
Speaker 1: Last year they were eighteenth. This year their fifth, So
Speaker 1: they're contending better in the physical parts of the game.
Speaker 1: Big part of that is Ryan Dunn. Have you guys
Speaker 1: seen We'll start with you, Carson, have you seen anything
Speaker 1: with the Phoenix Suns that leads you to believe they're
Speaker 1: a different team that will be more successful this year
Speaker 1: than they were last year.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I do think that they're better than last year.
Speaker 3: And the biggest reason for that, in my eyes, is
Speaker 3: that they've found a couple of two way role players.
Speaker 4: That was the he.
Speaker 3: Struggle all of last season, Right, it was all, right,
Speaker 3: are we playing these guards who can actually shoot the
Speaker 3: ball but really struggle to defend? Or is it like, well,
Speaker 3: we got to put josh Okogie out there because we
Speaker 3: know athletically he can hang, but like they didn't have
Speaker 3: dudes who were capable on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 3: And I think now they've got some wings who can
Speaker 3: really defend out there playing more minutes, who have also
Speaker 3: been capable offensively. Ryan done, to me was the key
Speaker 3: to this season for the Suns. This is what I
Speaker 3: said in the preseason. They have to play him and
Speaker 3: he has to be good, and he has to hold
Speaker 3: up an offensive level close to what we saw in preseason.
Speaker 3: I guess maybe I shouldn't even say that, because he
Speaker 3: was shooting like over forty percent from deep on crazy volume.
Speaker 3: But he has to play at a level that solidifies
Speaker 3: that he has taken an offensive leap from the player
Speaker 3: we saw at Virginia, who was the worst offensive player
Speaker 3: drafted in the first round, probably right, and a complete
Speaker 3: non shooter who had no touch even from the free
Speaker 3: throw line.
Speaker 4: But what we saw in preseas and I thought, yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that something close to this is reasonable to
Speaker 3: expect from him, and I think that he's delivered on
Speaker 3: that last couple of games. He hasn't made a shot,
Speaker 3: but like we've seen him have some really good offensive performances,
Speaker 3: and he was the best defensive prospect in this class.
Speaker 3: I mean, what he does athletically on the perimeter is outstanding.
Speaker 3: We've seen him throw at some premier perimeter players if
Speaker 3: it's Lebron, if it's Harden, if it's Luca, and really
Speaker 3: hold his own in those matchups. He's also the best
Speaker 3: shot blocking wing in this class, and he's just exactly
Speaker 3: what Phoenix needs.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: They need athletes, they need defenders, and when those dudes
Speaker 3: can play offensively, like he's attempting nine and a half
Speaker 3: threes per thirty six minutes and he's making thirty six
Speaker 3: percent of them, that's a huge win for them. That's
Speaker 3: the exact sort of role player they're looking for. And
Speaker 3: Roiz O'Neil has been better this year. He's filling his
Speaker 3: role at a higher level. Obviously, they made the move
Speaker 3: for him mid season last year and he had a
Speaker 3: really bad season versus Minnesota. But he's shooting the ball
Speaker 3: really well and he's defending well right now.
Speaker 4: So I think that.
Speaker 3: They've addressed their Vegas to need in terms of role players.
Speaker 3: And when you get O'Neill out there, or you get
Speaker 3: done out there instead of a Tias Jones or a
Speaker 3: Bradley Beal and you're playing them alongside Katie and Book,
Speaker 3: you've seen really good results. I think that they're starting
Speaker 3: five as it's configured is not a good cohesive lineup.
Speaker 3: I think that they have some redundancies and some very
Speaker 3: obvious limitations there, but it's not like they're strictly playing
Speaker 3: They're starting five twenty five minutes a night, right this
Speaker 3: is in Denver, so they're getting some better role player contributions.
Speaker 3: Their offense I think is pretty similar to last year.
Speaker 3: I do think it's slightly better, right. I do think
Speaker 3: there's a bit of a stabilizing element with Tias Jones.
Speaker 3: You mentioned the assist percentage. I do think the ball
Speaker 3: movement has been a bit better. I like the three
Speaker 3: point volume going up. I do still think they have
Speaker 3: some of the same limitations. They are still dead last
Speaker 3: in the league in restricted area makes and compared to
Speaker 3: the great offenses, they just don't have that sort of
Speaker 3: overwhelming advantage creator.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: They can get in the drive and kick game, and
Speaker 3: they have a lot of offensive skill out there, but
Speaker 3: that rim pressure aspect, just having a guy who every
Speaker 3: time down the floor gets you a great shot is
Speaker 3: something they do not have. They do rely a lot
Speaker 3: still on Kadie and Book being incredible shot makers and
Speaker 3: Beale being a really good shot maker, and they can
Speaker 3: be a good offense like that. They've been average offensively
Speaker 3: so far this year, but they can be a good
Speaker 3: offense like that, and I expect them to be. It's
Speaker 3: just really hard to be a great offense like that.
Speaker 3: And hopefully they keep the three point volume up, because
Speaker 3: that was another component of this last year is they
Speaker 3: weren't getting shots at the rim, and they weren't getting
Speaker 3: a high percentage of shots from beyond the arc, and
Speaker 3: then you're just living in the mid range and that's
Speaker 3: just a numbers problem. That's a math problem for you,
Speaker 3: no matter how good your shot making from Katie and
Speaker 3: Book is. But what's been encouraging is how great they've
Speaker 3: been in the clutch compared to just the complete disaster
Speaker 3: they were last year, right turnover machine. In clutch situations,
Speaker 3: they've been awesome. That's where they've been winning all their games.
Speaker 3: They're five and in clutch games this year, and that's
Speaker 3: against a lot.
Speaker 4: Of good teams.
Speaker 3: Some of that is just KD heroics, but that's encouraging.
Speaker 3: I do think that they're better than last year, and
Speaker 3: to me, their ceiling is about how much they can
Speaker 3: continue to get these athletes and these defenders on the floor,
Speaker 3: because I think that that's where we need to see
Speaker 3: improvement from them compared to last year is really on
Speaker 3: the defensive end and in terms of physicality and toughness.
Speaker 3: I mean, they just got smacked in the mouth, they
Speaker 3: got bullied by Minnesota. The offense struggled and we saw
Speaker 3: again the lack of rim pressure right, the lack of
Speaker 3: high end athleticism advantage creation against a super athletic defense.
Speaker 3: It was bringing a ton of pressure and they were
Speaker 3: able to kind of suffocate even these really skilled ball handlers.
Speaker 3: But the defense is where I really hope to see
Speaker 3: improvement from Phoenix, and I think that.
Speaker 4: We have seen some.
Speaker 3: Like I said, I don't like the actual starting five.
Speaker 3: I think that lineup struggles to defend. I think they
Speaker 3: struggled to rebound. I think it's silly that they promised
Speaker 3: Tias Jones a starting spot, and if they were going
Speaker 3: to do that, I think that they probably should have
Speaker 3: sent Beal to the bench, just so again you are
Speaker 3: able to get a better athlete and defender on the floor.
Speaker 3: And I do think that having Nurk and plumb Lee
Speaker 3: eating up all your center minutes does limit their defensive ceiling.
Speaker 3: They've improved, but it is tough when you have that
Speaker 3: sort of limitations at the most important defensive position, and
Speaker 3: alongside O'Neill or Dunn or whoever you're playing big minutes
Speaker 3: or starting like, you are still going to have a
Speaker 3: small guard in Tyas Jones or Bradley Beal booking Katie
Speaker 3: are solid defensively, but we don't consistently see them buy
Speaker 3: all the way in on that end. Like, I think
Speaker 3: they have the potentially be a good offense. I think
Speaker 3: they have the potential to be an above average defense.
Speaker 3: And I also think that this West is a bit
Speaker 3: more vulnerable. Like the depth is crazy, but Minnesota's not
Speaker 3: as good as last year, Denver's not as good as
Speaker 3: last year. Dallas, to me, is clearly beatable. Like I
Speaker 3: think that this Phoenix team can win a series in
Speaker 3: this West, they might be able to go further than that.
Speaker 3: They might be able to win two series. I'm not
Speaker 3: really seeing a gap between some of the teams and
Speaker 3: them where I did expect to see a gap, and
Speaker 3: early in the year, when a lot of teams out
Speaker 3: West have just underwhelmed, Phoenix has been the one team
Speaker 3: that's soaring. I mean, I think there's obviously a massive
Speaker 3: gap between Oka seeing them, but I do think they're better.
Speaker 3: I was low on how much they could really improve
Speaker 3: this offseason, just with some of their fundamental core limitations
Speaker 3: and lack of roster flexibility. And I don't think that
Speaker 3: They've moved mountains in terms of how I viewed them,
Speaker 3: But it's definitely been encouraging and I am higher on
Speaker 3: them now than I was preseason.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's the measuring stick for this year, right,
Speaker 6: it's all about Cam the Suns. When a playoff series
Speaker 6: they got demolished by Minnesota. I have been encouraged, and
Speaker 6: it does start defensively. I think we've seen more buy
Speaker 6: in with coach Budd and you know, Nurk and Plumbly
Speaker 6: have their you know, physical limitations is like centers, but
Speaker 6: I think they've played hard. Like I'll give Nrks some props, Like,
Speaker 6: I've liked how Nurks try playing out there.
Speaker 5: He's like moving in the pick and roll.
Speaker 6: He's trying to contest shots, right Like, obviously there's limitations
Speaker 6: athletically with what he can do, but I've been impressed there.
Speaker 6: They're really good at turning defense into offense when they
Speaker 6: can get stops. This was the number one transition team
Speaker 6: in basketball last year, their number five again this year.
Speaker 6: They have been better in the fourth quarter. They had
Speaker 6: a huge comeback win against Philadelphia.
Speaker 5: I blinked.
Speaker 6: I couldn't believe the Suns had come back and won
Speaker 6: that game. KD had fifteen points in the fourth. They
Speaker 6: had that twenty one point comeback versus the Clippers. So
Speaker 6: I do think you're seeing a feist year, a hungry team,
Speaker 6: a team that is again I hate always saying this,
Speaker 6: but they are playing harder. I think you are seeing
Speaker 6: that with Phoenix. They aren't melting down in the fourth.
Speaker 6: I think I'm higher on this offense a little bit
Speaker 6: more than you though, Carson. It is because of that
Speaker 6: high volume of threes. This team was twenty fifth and
Speaker 6: three pointers attempted last year.
Speaker 5: They were eleventh.
Speaker 6: This year. They were twentieth and three pointers made last
Speaker 6: year their seventh. Right now, all of last year, the
Speaker 6: Sun said twenty three games where they made fifteen or
Speaker 6: more threes. That's just twenty eight percent of their games.
Speaker 6: This season already, they've had four games where they've made
Speaker 6: fifteen or more threes. That's fifty seven percent of their games.
Speaker 6: It's four of seven thus far, and so they're on
Speaker 6: pace to do it in forty seven games this year.
Speaker 5: If they can keep up that.
Speaker 6: Kind of three point volume and playing hard defensively, it
Speaker 6: does make a meaningful difference in how this swings games.
Speaker 6: I agree with your fundamental flaw for this team, Carson.
Speaker 6: There's nobody that gets down hill and exerts a ton
Speaker 6: of pressure on the rim. But I think they can
Speaker 6: still be a really good offense with this kind of
Speaker 6: star power in this three point shooting flanking them.
Speaker 5: They made nine.
Speaker 6: Threes against Portland in the third quarter and that just
Speaker 6: completely shut them. I get it, it's Portland, but they
Speaker 6: completely shut them down. That was something that last year's
Speaker 6: team wouldn't have done at all. And they've had individual
Speaker 6: games that they've survived their stars not playing well, and
Speaker 6: I think that bodes well for the playoffs as well.
Speaker 6: Against Philadelphia, book goes three of eighteen. They mount that
Speaker 6: twenty one point comeback against the Slippers without Bradley Beal
Speaker 6: on the floor at all. So they've got star power,
Speaker 6: they've got improved three point shooting and depth. They've got
Speaker 6: improved defense with better coaching. Yeah, I think this team
Speaker 6: can win a playoff series. I don't know if i'd
Speaker 6: take them to the Western Conference finals. That's a little much,
Speaker 6: but I do think this team can win a playoff series.
Speaker 6: I've been really impressed by the Suns. I was really
Speaker 6: low on them, like you coming into the year, But
Speaker 6: I do feel a little differently about them now.
Speaker 1: I think it's been really funny to see some of
Speaker 1: the narrative stuff coming out of the way this team
Speaker 1: is covered, Like there's a lot of attributing tyas Jones
Speaker 1: with the success of the team here rely going, which
Speaker 1: is like, doesn't make any sense to me. Statistically, They've
Speaker 1: been way better when he's been off the floor. Coming
Speaker 1: out of that series with Minnesota, the obsession with the
Speaker 1: idea of like them needing a point guard, to me
Speaker 1: was silly because it's like, Okay, you're losing because you're
Speaker 1: getting manhandled, not because you're uh because you don't have
Speaker 1: a point guard, And like, yeah, do Beal and Booker
Speaker 1: and kd need to handle ball pressure better and get
Speaker 1: the ball at the floor and get into their stuff. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: no doubt, like that's on them, But like being like
Speaker 1: looking at that situation and being like, Okay, option one,
Speaker 1: we just do a better job not pissing down our
Speaker 1: leg when someone picks us up full court, and we
Speaker 1: devote our resources towards bigger athletes that help us win
Speaker 1: these really physical games. Or option two, let's have tie
Speaker 1: us do it, you know, like it's it's it's confusing
Speaker 1: to me because, like you know, just look at their data, Like,
Speaker 1: the guys that have been leading to their the most
Speaker 1: success on the floor have been Royce O'Neill, Ryan Dunn,
Speaker 1: the guys that are big, physical defenders that can knock
Speaker 1: down a wide open catch and shoot three. And like, look,
Speaker 1: do I love this team build? No, because, like I
Speaker 1: think it's really hard to win without a center in
Speaker 1: the NBA, just because like size and physicality and the
Speaker 1: ability to defensive rebound is important. And the Sons have
Speaker 1: been negative in their centerless groups so far this season.
Speaker 1: But like right now, if I was like picking a
Speaker 1: lineup to go down with, if I was the Suns,
Speaker 1: It'd be Bo Booker KD. And it'd be Ryan Dunn,
Speaker 1: and it'd be Royce O'Neil. Those are the guys that
Speaker 1: I would want to go down with. Those are the
Speaker 1: guys that give them the best chance to compete physically.
Speaker 1: I think that's the encouraging part. Getting a full season
Speaker 1: of Royce O'Neill adding Ryan Dune to this group, I
Speaker 1: think that's what causes them to have a better defensive
Speaker 1: rebounding track record than they do this year, to have
Speaker 1: a better transition defense than they did last year, to
Speaker 1: be a better defense overall than they were last year.
Speaker 1: And like Ryan Dunn is like not just a good
Speaker 1: defensive player, Like he's one of those guys where like
Speaker 1: I get nervous when people run action on his side
Speaker 1: of the floor that he's just going to blow it up.
Speaker 1: Like the dude is an absolute monster. I loved the
Speaker 1: quote from KD about there was a quote from KD that,
Speaker 1: like one of the things he loves about Ryan Dunn is.
Speaker 2: That he fouls a lot.
Speaker 1: And it's actually been really funny to me because like
Speaker 1: this is something I thought with my young players all
Speaker 1: the time, the ones that I coach, Like when I'm
Speaker 1: playing one on one with him, when I decide to
Speaker 1: step in for fun and play king of the court,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, why are you scared to guard me? Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I get it, I'm your coach. I get it on
Speaker 1: bigger and stronger than you, but like, compete here, show me.
Speaker 2: What you got.
Speaker 1: And there have been a handful of guys that have
Speaker 1: come through the program where it's like they don't care
Speaker 1: that I'm older and bigger and stronger and more experienced,
Speaker 1: like they tried, they foul me, they get physical, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, this is awesome. You're competing, you're showing fight,
Speaker 1: and like it's like I had a comment after the
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook clip that I showed of him guarding RJ.
Speaker 2: Barrett.
Speaker 1: Someone was like, he committed three fouls on that possession.
Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe, but you know what the best defenders do.
Speaker 1: They foul and they get away with it. That's like
Speaker 1: what they do. That's part of basketball. You need to
Speaker 1: get the suns needed to get meaner and more physical,
Speaker 1: and I feel like they're meaner and more physical this year,
Speaker 1: and I think that that's something that makes them better.
Speaker 1: I think when push comes to shove on the offensive
Speaker 1: end of the floor, it's on KD, Devin Booker, and
Speaker 1: Bradley Beal to navigate ball pressure, to get the defense
Speaker 1: into rotation, to make the right reads, to trust each
Speaker 1: other to drive. And I think I think that that
Speaker 1: is if we're looking for something that coach Budenholzer has
Speaker 1: really affected. You know, Frank Vogel is as good of
Speaker 1: a defensive coach as he is, and I think he's
Speaker 1: an underrated defensive coach. Frank Vogel has always had been
Speaker 1: way behind the times on the offensive end of the floor,
Speaker 1: and I think that that structure and that prioritization of
Speaker 1: those driving kick possessions has been really good for them.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, Carson and your outlook on the league. Like,
Speaker 1: to me, Oklahoma City is on a clear tier above
Speaker 1: the rest. But you could talk me into any of
Speaker 1: those other teams winning multiple playoffs series. So that could
Speaker 1: be Oklahoma City versus Phoenix, That could be Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: versus Dallas. It could be Oklahoma City versus Minnesota, Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City versus Denver, Oklahoma City versus the Lakers, Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: versus Golden State, any of those teams. To me, I
Speaker 1: could see meeting in the conference finals, just because there's.
Speaker 2: Just a whole.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because we were talking earlier about the
Speaker 1: difference between the two conferences and how there's only two
Speaker 1: teams over five hundred out east right now, But it's
Speaker 1: like it's a whole lot of mediocre off the top.
Speaker 2: It's a whole.
Speaker 1: There's like two elite teams and then there's like eighteen
Speaker 1: the teams, you know what I mean, And like there
Speaker 1: are a couple of them that are playing better at
Speaker 1: the start of the season, right, Like Phoenix is playing better,
Speaker 1: Cleveland's playing better, Golden State's playing better. But like when
Speaker 1: push comes to shove and we get to April and
Speaker 1: it's time for a seven game series, there's not really
Speaker 1: a whole lot of separation taking place among that group
Speaker 1: in my opinion. And so to me, it's like what
Speaker 1: it comes down to is who can among that group,
Speaker 1: who can from day one start a training camp address
Speaker 1: the things they need to address and build those habits
Speaker 1: and all of that attention to details so that they
Speaker 1: can be a sharper team when they get to the
Speaker 1: end of the line. And to me, Phoenix is one
Speaker 1: of those teams that's taking the right approach here in
Speaker 1: the early part of the season. All right, guys, it's
Speaker 1: all we have for today. Carson, why don't you tell
Speaker 1: us about what you guys are working on over at
Speaker 1: NERD sesh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we have a ton of stuff.
Speaker 3: So, as Logan mentioned, I just did a video on
Speaker 3: Evan Mobley yesterday. We do have a video out on
Speaker 3: Chedd Holmgren from last week covering some these early season breakouts.
Speaker 3: So that's fun. We really go in depth with film
Speaker 3: on those, but we also have all of our full
Speaker 3: length shows three times a week. We're talking basketball, so
Speaker 3: much fun to have it back. We're also talking football,
Speaker 3: so if you are looking for a fix there, then
Speaker 3: you can head on over to the nerd Sash YouTube channel.
Speaker 3: All that good stuff is there, and that's basically it.
Speaker 3: Thank you Jason for.
Speaker 4: Having us on.
Speaker 3: As always, this was a great time and I'm just
Speaker 3: so happy to have basketball back. Man, it brings me
Speaker 3: so much joy. And this has been a really fun
Speaker 3: season so far.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I'm super excited too. I appreciate you guys
Speaker 1: taking the time to come on. I'm hoping that we
Speaker 1: finally get a good NBA Finals this year. That's the
Speaker 1: give me a good conference finals and a good NBA
Speaker 1: for well, I'm for.
Speaker 3: If oksee Boston doesn't deliver, then dude, what's the point.
Speaker 4: What's it all for?
Speaker 5: All Right?
Speaker 1: Guys, as always, you sincerely appreciate you for supporting the show.
Speaker 1: Make sure you head over to nerd SATs. They're making
Speaker 1: incredible content over there. You will get smarter and you'll
Speaker 1: just enjoy those two guys in the hard work that
Speaker 1: they do. We will be back. I'm recording. So I'm
Speaker 1: recording a mailbag after this that's going to air later
Speaker 1: this week. But we are going to be back tomorrow
Speaker 1: morning to cover a jam packed Wednesday Night slate. The
Speaker 1: Celtics Warriors game tonight should be super interesting. There's like
Speaker 1: a half dozen really good games. We're probably gonna do
Speaker 1: something similar to what we did Tuesday, like bouncing around
Speaker 1: the whole league and doing a bunch of films, So
Speaker 1: be ready for that tomorrow, and then we'll have that
Speaker 1: mailbag on Friday, and then we'll be out of here for
Speaker 1: the week. All right, guys, that's all we have. We
Speaker 1: will see you tomorrow.
Speaker 6: The volume