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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and it's just the two of us, and we

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Speaker 2: are doing an episode on boycotts today because boy boycott's

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Speaker 2: really sticking your crawl. Did a lot of them. They

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Speaker 2: seem to be overused in this era, and I wanted

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Speaker 2: to see how the whole thing worked, just from watching

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Speaker 2: them happen over and over again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know Webster's defines a boycott as a

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Speaker 1: collective active refusal. Yeah, so does Steve, who help us

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Speaker 1: with this. But you know what we're talking about, right,

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Speaker 1: that's when people get together these days. Usually it's a

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Speaker 1: call on social media or something, and they say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to buy this thing from your store,

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Speaker 1: or we're not gonna buy anything from your store, or

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna buy anything from your company, or we're

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Speaker 1: not going to buy anything from your state or country

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Speaker 1: because we want to hit your bottom line, hitch in

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Speaker 1: the wallet.

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Speaker 2: As they say, to get you to change.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to get you to change, or I think,

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Speaker 1: in some people's cases these days, just to be mean

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Speaker 1: because I hate what you stand for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I want to say I'm not poop pooing

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Speaker 2: the entire concept of boycotts. What what I was taking

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Speaker 2: issue with is just how fast and loose they come,

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Speaker 2: over and over that if you really followed every boycott

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Speaker 2: like you had starve to death, there'd be nowhere you

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Speaker 2: could buy food any longer, let alone anything else.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and can I quickly say also that these

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Speaker 1: sort of so many calls for these boycotts and social media,

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Speaker 1: they're also I feel like a lot of times like

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Speaker 1: just not thought out and that like you're boycotting this

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Speaker 1: one thing, but the same company owns this other thing

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Speaker 1: that you like, and they just seem to be kind

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Speaker 1: of the dumb version of boycotts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're very knee jerk, they're not very organized, and

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Speaker 2: they're just emotionally driven. All boycotts have some level of

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Speaker 2: emotion and to them driving them, But there's also supposed

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Speaker 2: to be a lot more to them if you're gonna

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Speaker 2: make it successful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're gonna cover all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: But also one more thing, Chuck, I am also not

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Speaker 2: poopooing anybody caring about something that's great. I will always

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Speaker 2: promote somebody caring about something that's important to you, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of people show that they care by joining

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Speaker 2: in on boycotts or maybe even starting boycotts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean you're known as the guy who cares.

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Speaker 2: Who's been calling me that the public at large.

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Speaker 1: I think that's your nickname on Reddit, the.

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Speaker 2: Boy who cares and the best all around boy.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, look at that match made and heaven.

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Speaker 2: The barb, the BHC and the barb.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: So let's start talking about boycotts because, like I said,

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Speaker 2: I was curious in how they worked. We havesked David

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Speaker 2: help us with them. And what I didn't know right

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Speaker 2: out of the gate is that Boycott is somebody's last name.

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Speaker 2: The first guy whoever on record, got boycotted was named

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Speaker 2: Charles Cunningham Boycott.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That seems like something we would make up as

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Speaker 1: a bit, yeah, but it's actually totally true. He was

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Speaker 1: an Englishman living in Ireland and County Mayo, and he

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Speaker 1: was a rent collector, specifically would collect rent for absentee

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Speaker 1: British landlords from Irish tenant farmers who were having a

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Speaker 1: very rough time in eighteen seventy nine, down on.

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Speaker 2: Their luck, as you'd put it. There was a terrible famine.

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Speaker 2: This is after the Great Irish Potato famine, but this

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Speaker 2: one wasn't so wonderful either, And so these farmers were

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Speaker 2: not exactly looking forward to being evicted for being behind

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Speaker 2: on rent. And Boycott apparently seems to be one of

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Speaker 2: those people who had like he just followed the rules.

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Speaker 2: You're the one who's not paying your rent, so get out.

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Speaker 2: And the Irish people in County Mayo decided to do

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Speaker 2: something about it. They formed an organization called the Land League,

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Speaker 2: and they were agitating for fair rents. They were agitating

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Speaker 2: for an end to evictions, and Charles Boycott just kept

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Speaker 2: evicting people. So they're like, we've got to try something else.

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Speaker 2: What can we do. Let's do everything we can to

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Speaker 2: ruin Charles Boycott's life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and if there was only a name for this kind.

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Speaker 2: Of action, they're like, we'll get to that later, yeah.

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Speaker 1: But we can't think of one. So later, in a

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Speaker 1: letter to the Times of London, Boycott basically kind of

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Speaker 1: summarize what they had been doing. And we're not going

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Speaker 1: to read all this word for word, but you know,

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Speaker 1: they really screwed with his business. He's you know, they

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Speaker 1: collected in crowds on his farm. They you know, would

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Speaker 1: harass him at his house. They threatened people that worked

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Speaker 1: for him, like his blacksmith apparently got a letter threatening

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Speaker 1: him with murder if he did any more work for him.

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Speaker 1: They threatened his laundress to stop washing his clothes, and

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Speaker 1: he couldn't get anybody to do any kind of work

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Speaker 1: for him, basically and ruined his business. It became a

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Speaker 1: big story, like not just there, but kind of internationally.

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Speaker 1: The British newspapers picked it up. The British newspapers also

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Speaker 1: raised funds to send fifty Northern Irish loyalists to harvest

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Speaker 1: his potato crop, because you could didn't get anyone to

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Speaker 1: do it because they were afraid they'd get you know,

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Speaker 1: physically beaten or harassed, and they were protected by British troops.

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Speaker 1: And apparently, by one account, it cost ten thousand pounds

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Speaker 1: to harvest five hundred pounds worth of potatoes from those

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Speaker 1: Northern Irish loyalists.

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Speaker 2: I did some conversions, let's hear it. So if they

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Speaker 2: spent ten thousand pounds sterling to harvest these potatoes, they

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Speaker 2: spent a million pounds sterling or one point four million

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Speaker 2: dollars in today's money to harvest fifty two thousand pounds

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Speaker 2: sterling or seventy thousand dollars worth of potatoes. Isn't that insane?

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Speaker 2: That really just drives it home. That's why I do

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Speaker 2: those conversions, Yeah, because I want to drive at home.

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Speaker 2: How nuts?

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Speaker 1: That was totally nuts. He left Ireland boycott did in disgrace.

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Speaker 1: It was a very successful challenge to his authority. Can't

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Speaker 1: call it a boycott yet, but you could very soon

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Speaker 1: because American journalist James Redpath said, you know what, the

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Speaker 1: first person who used that as a verb was a

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Speaker 1: local priest, believe it or not. His name was Father O'Malley,

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Speaker 1: who said, I believe he suggested the land League try

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Speaker 1: the same thing on another landlord named Brown, and he said,

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Speaker 1: let's do what they did to boycott. Let's do a

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Speaker 1: boycott on this Brown. That's what we're gonna do. We're

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Speaker 1: going to boycott Brown. See the word is a verb,

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Speaker 1: it's boycott. You understand.

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Speaker 2: That was a great father O'Malley.

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Speaker 1: Thanks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so just by covering father O'Malley using it

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Speaker 2: as a verb. Writing about these new boycotts, James Redpath,

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Speaker 2: who appears to have been a contemporaryaneous journalist to this time.

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Speaker 2: He kind of helped generate this idea that you could

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Speaker 2: actually get stuff done by boycotting. People check this out.

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Speaker 2: And so I think in the next year there are

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Speaker 2: more than a thousand boycotts in Ireland without social media.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there were thousand boycotts, and that means father O'Malley

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand times said, remember it's called boycotten.

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Speaker 2: That is so good. We're going to get two emails

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Speaker 2: from people who aren't even Irish that are mad at

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Speaker 2: us for doing that. Yeah, and then fifteen emails from

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Speaker 2: people from Ireland who are like that was a hilarious

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Speaker 2: chuck totally, that's how it goes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe one from father a father O'Malley, because

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Speaker 1: I know there's a bunch of them.

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Speaker 2: Ye, I'm going to say, that doesn't narrow it down

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Speaker 2: at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that's where the whole boycott got started in

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Speaker 2: County Mayo, Ireland. And since then people have studied these

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Speaker 2: things and have really kind of gotten down to almost

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Speaker 2: the science what it would take to make a boycott effective,

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Speaker 2: and there have been a lot of effective boycotts over

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Speaker 2: the years. We're going to talk about some of them,

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Speaker 2: but to just kind of pull apart the nuts in

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Speaker 2: the bolts. There's just a handful of things that you

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Speaker 2: really have to do just right, and then it's sprinkle

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Speaker 2: it with a little bit of luck and you could

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Speaker 2: have an effective boycott on your hands.

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Speaker 1: I think you meant just a little bit of luck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit of leper kind.

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Speaker 1: Dust right, Yeah, for sure. These are the one, two, three, four,

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Speaker 1: five six things you need to do. If you you know,

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Speaker 1: you can boycott your day away. But if you want

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Speaker 1: to really be effective these there at least i'd say

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Speaker 1: probably four out of six of these need to be around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Six steps to ruining target's market share.

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Speaker 1: You gotta have a clear goal in mine, which means

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Speaker 1: you have an outcome in mind. Basically m hm. You

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Speaker 1: want to narrow target. So you want to either target

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Speaker 1: like a very narrow like a product or just a

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Speaker 1: single company. H That's why sometimes when I think about like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're targeting this company, but like the parent company isn't targeted.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. That's where it can get a little messy.

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, and poor targets, Like can you guys

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Speaker 2: stop using the word target when you're talking about boycotts.

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Speaker 1: Uh, there's also awareness and education, because your your goal

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Speaker 1: here is to not only getting them to change whatever

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Speaker 1: they're doing, but to bring awareness and educate people and

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Speaker 1: whatever you feel like they're doing wrong.

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Speaker 2: Well. Plus also the more support you have, the better

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Speaker 2: off you are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good point.

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Speaker 2: You also want to reach core customers. This is a

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Speaker 2: very important point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: They've turned up an expert in boycotts and studying boycotts

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Speaker 2: who said, essentially, if you have a bunch of PEDA

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Speaker 2: members who are boycotting Kentucky Fried Chicken, like, that's not

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Speaker 2: going to have much an effect because none of those

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Speaker 2: PEDA members were ever buying Kentucky Fried Chicken in the

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Speaker 2: first place. And yeah, maybe you could generate some public sympathy,

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Speaker 2: but you're not getting to their core customers necessarily. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and that's what makes it effective.

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Speaker 1: What else, Yeah, Uh, there's sustain Uh, there's substitutability. This

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Speaker 1: is a big one, because if you can very easily

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Speaker 1: switch to another brand of whatever, then it's going to

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Speaker 1: make your boycott far more effective. Like if then you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to other examples later. But like you know,

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Speaker 1: with the big blood Light boycott was a very big

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Speaker 1: and we're going to cover later. It was really easy

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Speaker 1: for the people who wanted a boycott by light to

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Speaker 1: switch to another, like an expensive light beer. So that

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Speaker 1: was a pretty effective boycott because it's like super easy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll just drink Miller Led or whatever, right.

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Speaker 2: Or I'll go to churches or Popeyes rather than Kentucky

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Speaker 2: Fried Chicken exactly. And then also like if you want

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Speaker 2: a successful boycott, you have to really like nail in

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Speaker 2: that bottom line. You really got to hurt the company

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Speaker 2: financially if you want to make them at least start

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Speaker 2: listening to you, if not actually enact the change that

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Speaker 2: you're looking for. And you know, in times past, essentially

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Speaker 2: pre social media era, that was the one measure of boycotts,

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Speaker 2: that is how you got a company to respond. You

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Speaker 2: started really affecting either their sales or their stock price,

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Speaker 2: and more and more often than not their stock price. Nowadays,

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Speaker 2: because of social media, bad press can spread so fast

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Speaker 2: and so far and so wide that just getting like

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Speaker 2: negative press can actually make large corporations or organizations change

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Speaker 2: their stance on something or make them drop their stance

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Speaker 2: in total.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, that's a very good point. It's a

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Speaker 1: little bit different ballgame these days. Should we take our break? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, we'll take a break. We'll be right back

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Speaker 1: to as promised, talk about some of the most famous

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Speaker 1: boycotts throughout history. All right, we're back in this promise.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take you on a little walk through the

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Speaker 1: history of boycotts. And we got to start with Colonial

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Speaker 1: because they were good at it. A lot of times

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Speaker 1: they were boycotting an act that was passed by the

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Speaker 1: British that they did not like. Over here in the

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Speaker 1: New Colonies. They had some pretty wicked branding with slogans

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Speaker 1: like no taxation without representation. They were pretty good at

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And the first one we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about is seventeen sixty five. I know we've

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Speaker 1: talked about, you know, all these kind of here and

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Speaker 1: there in the life of the show. But the Stamp

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Speaker 1: Act was passed in sixty five, which was a tax

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Speaker 1: on paper goods and documents and things like that, and

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Speaker 1: the merchants in Boston and New York said, nope, we're

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Speaker 1: going to sign a non importation agreement and we're not

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Speaker 1: going to import goods from England anymore. And it worked

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Speaker 1: about a year later, Parliament repealed the Stamp Act.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, first boycott and the we should say the American colonies.

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Speaker 2: It could see our Australian and New Zealand listeners. Good,

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Speaker 2: I don't remember any of this, what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, lots of colonies.

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Speaker 2: This happened in the American colonies, right, that's right. Shortly

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Speaker 2: after that, so Parliament's trying to pay for the Seven

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Speaker 2: Years War, the French Indian Wars, what the American colonists

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Speaker 2: called it. So they were then now directly taxing the

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Speaker 2: American colonies, and they followed up with the Stamp Act

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Speaker 2: with the Townsend Revenue Act in seventeen sixty seven. It

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Speaker 2: taxed a bunch of different stuff. The colonists organized a

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Speaker 2: bunch of protests and boycotts again, and Parliament responded and

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Speaker 2: they repealed the Townsend Act three years later, but they

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Speaker 2: kept one part of it. They kept a tax on tea.

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Speaker 2: Everyone loved tea in the American colonies, as I'm sure

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Speaker 2: in Australia and New Zealand too at the time. So

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Speaker 2: it was a big deal to have this big tax

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Speaker 2: on tea. And so the American colonists said, well, we're

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Speaker 2: not going to drink British tea, and in Parliament said oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: well get this. We're going to give the East India

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Speaker 2: Company basically free reign on selling below costs for tea,

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Speaker 2: so that even with this tax, it's going to cost

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Speaker 2: you less for tea than buying this smuggled illegal tea

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Speaker 2: that normally is cheaper with the tax.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So some merchants were like, well, it sounds kind of

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Speaker 2: good to me. I can make more money. And the

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Speaker 2: people here in the American colonies we call the patriots,

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Speaker 2: the founding fathers said nay to that, and that actually

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Speaker 2: led to the Boston Tea Party.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Sons of Liberty said no, thanks for get

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Speaker 1: a demputee in the Hobba.

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Speaker 2: Wow. I mean, you are killing it today all over

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Speaker 2: the place.

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Speaker 1: And that's what they did. In seventeen seventy four of

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Speaker 1: the First Continental Congress passed a colony wide ban on

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Speaker 1: all trade with Britain. And that was the beginning of

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Speaker 1: what would become a war.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it worked then, it worked later And I mean

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Speaker 2: they didn't have a name for this because this was

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Speaker 2: before the County Mayo Boycott's and Charles Boycott. But they

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Speaker 2: were like this unnamed thing that we're doing. It really

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Speaker 2: kind of works, and so it inspired other groups that

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Speaker 2: came along in America over the court. So the coming centuries,

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Speaker 2: especially if you were part of a civil rights organization,

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Speaker 2: boycotts proved very effective. They are really worthwhile to do

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Speaker 2: because most of the time, if you're agitating for civil rights,

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Speaker 2: you have a group of true believers who are willing

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Speaker 2: to actually work at this. And one of the first

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Speaker 2: groups fighting for civil rights in the United States were

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Speaker 2: the Quakers Quaker abolitionists, and they formed something called the

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Speaker 2: Free Produce Movement.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this was in the eighteen forties through the Civil

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Speaker 1: War basically, and they boycotted goods made by enslaved people,

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Speaker 1: cotton of course being one of the keys there. And

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Speaker 1: as far as they were concerned, like, hey, if you're

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Speaker 1: buying the stuff, you're supporting slavery. So the Free Produce

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Speaker 1: Movement sort of tackled that. Another obvious example as far

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Speaker 1: as civil rights go is the great Montgomery bus Boycott,

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Speaker 1: which we covered in detail in our episode from February

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. Rosa Parks colon Asient of Change, So you

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Speaker 1: can go listen to that episode for the full rundown

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Speaker 1: of the Montgomery bus boycott. But that was a couple

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Speaker 1: of highlights for me was the fact that before Rosa

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Speaker 1: Parks came along. I always want a chance to shout

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Speaker 1: out fifteen year old Claudette Colvin who in March nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty five refused to move so a white passenger could

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Speaker 1: take her seat. She was also yanked off the bus

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Speaker 1: and arrested by the cops. But they would end up

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Speaker 1: rallying around Rosa Parks instead about nine months later. And

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Speaker 1: then the other thing I just wanted to highlight, and

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Speaker 1: again you should listen to that episode because it's really

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Speaker 1: in depth, but was that the black community rallied around

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Speaker 1: each other in like a big way, Like black taxi

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Speaker 1: drivers would charged the same fare as the bus fair

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Speaker 1: would be. They had volunteers organizing carpools. They had shoe

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Speaker 1: drives because people were walking so much, they were wearing

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Speaker 1: their shoes out to get people in fresh shoes. And

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Speaker 1: it's a really beautiful moment in American history.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was a real struggle for them because

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Speaker 2: this is how black people in Montgomery largely got around

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Speaker 2: was the bus. So to give that up was a

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Speaker 2: big deal, and it was a successful boycott. It lasted

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Speaker 2: three hundred and eighty two days until the Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: ruled that segregation on buses was unconstitutional. If your boycott

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Speaker 2: leads to a Supreme Court ruling that what you're fighting

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Speaker 2: against is unconstitutional, that is a successful boycott, Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: And then one other thing about the Montgomery bus boycott

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Speaker 2: is that it directly inspired another boycott a few years

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Speaker 2: later that involved the United farm Workers grapegrowers or grape harvesters.

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Speaker 2: I should say that was led by Caesar Chavez, and

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Speaker 2: I mean one of the things that he did that

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Speaker 2: also makes boycott successful that we talked about was educating

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Speaker 2: the public. They created bumper stickers that said uvas, no,

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Speaker 2: no grapes. They told people what was going on, and

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Speaker 2: they got public support. That really helped these boycotts really

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Speaker 2: helped put the pressure on the grape growers to give

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Speaker 2: the grape harvesters better work and can nditions.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about apartheid?

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Speaker 2: I think we should so.

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Speaker 1: Apartheid was segregation in South Africa. It was their version

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Speaker 1: of legal segregation of their people of the white minority

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Speaker 1: and the black majority in South Africa, and it was

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Speaker 1: around since nineteen forty eight through basically the mid nineties

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Speaker 1: to when it finally dissolved, I think was like ninety four.

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Speaker 1: And the repeal of apartheid is partially credited to international pressure,

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Speaker 1: Boycott's sanctions, divestment and little Stevie van zandt Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: little Stevie VanZant. We'll get to him in a sec

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Speaker 1: But the nonviolent protests were a big part of it,

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Speaker 1: led by the African National Congress. Nelson Mandela was one

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Speaker 1: of the leaders in the ANC. So in nineteen fifty nine,

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Speaker 1: A and C president Albert Luthuli said, Hey, great Britain,

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Speaker 1: why don't you boycatt all South American produce, all South

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Speaker 1: African produce the first time they kind of reached out

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Speaker 1: Internet for help like that, and so South Africa said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we're outlawing the ANC and Nelson Mandela,

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Speaker 1: you're going to jail.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for suggesting a boycott, not even staging a boycott,

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Speaker 2: but suggesting one. The UN got involved in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 2: two and they were like, hey, guys, this is not okay.

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Speaker 2: We all or you guys need to start breaking ties

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Speaker 2: with South Africa, And everybody said nuts to that. And

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Speaker 2: it took a bunch of different sports organizations to finally

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Speaker 2: get the public aware of it and hence getting governments

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Speaker 2: involved in doing something about dismantling apartheid by turning their

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Speaker 2: backs in South Africa. And the first sports organization to

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Speaker 2: cut ties without South Africa in protests of its apartheid

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Speaker 2: policies was the International Table Tennis Federation, who did so

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Speaker 2: all the way back in nineteen fifty six.

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Speaker 1: Pretty great. Yeah, I love that. In sixty four the

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Speaker 1: IOC committee said no South African teams can participate in

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Speaker 1: the Olympics. Yeah, and that was a band that lasted

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Speaker 1: from sixty four to ninety two, so very long standing.

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Speaker 1: There were boycott's in Britain when South African cricket and

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Speaker 1: rugby teams which were there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a very famous Battle for Swansea, I think,

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Speaker 2: where there was like a rugby protest that the cops

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Speaker 2: and some hooligans started beating up and it just became

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Speaker 2: a huge thing and made international news too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I remember all this stuff growing up

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Speaker 1: in the eighties. It was all over the news. You

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Speaker 1: couldn't like, you couldn't like go ten minutes without hearing

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Speaker 1: the word apartheid or anti apartheid.

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Speaker 2: I mean I knew the President of South Africa's name

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Speaker 2: as like a ten year old, because what was it,

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Speaker 2: fw de Clerk.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you're like I knew it at ten. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm almost positive that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it was, I remember to Clerk.

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Speaker 2: Yet I learned about it from Mad magazine.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the eighties is also when you got college

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Speaker 1: kids involved in that. You know, if you want to

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Speaker 1: get college kids on your side, that's a pretty smart

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Speaker 1: thing to do, because they got nothing else to do,

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Speaker 1: take like a couple of classes a day maybe, And

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Speaker 1: so they got together, started their activism on campus, and

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Speaker 1: more than one hundred and fifty US colleges divested from

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Speaker 1: South Africa, so they withdrew investments in South African companies

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Speaker 1: as institutions as a whole. That was a un cultural boycott,

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Speaker 1: and part of that ended up being something and started

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Speaker 1: in eighty five called the Artist United Against Apartheid, founded

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Speaker 1: by Little Stephen van Zant of the EA Street Band

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Speaker 1: and a producer named Arthur Baker, who organized a song

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Speaker 1: sun City and an album sun City because sun City

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Speaker 1: was a luxury resort in Casino in South Africa that

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Speaker 1: had a lot of big time concerts, and the song

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Speaker 1: basically was I Ain't going to play sun City and

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Speaker 1: it was a you know, it was sort of on

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Speaker 1: the heels of We Are the World, but this one

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Speaker 1: was different because they you know, there were certainly black

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Speaker 1: artists on We Are the World, but not rap and

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Speaker 1: hip hop, and Sun City had Bono of course, and

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Speaker 1: Bob Dylan and Ringo and Bruce of course, Pat Benatar,

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Speaker 1: George Clinton, Joey Ramon in a very weird appearance, Hall

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Speaker 1: and Oates, but not together. They were very much separated.

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Speaker 2: It is so sad to me.

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Speaker 1: Lou Reid also had a very funny appearance Bonnie Rate.

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Speaker 1: But you also had run DMC and Cool Mode, the

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Speaker 1: Fat Boys, DJ Cool Hirk, Grandmaster, Melly Mel, Jimmy Cliff

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Speaker 1: was in there. So it really blended genres in a

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Speaker 1: way that We Are the World did not, and it

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Speaker 1: was a pretty good song. I think it is very eighties.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely worth seeing the video for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty cool. I think they ended up raising

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Speaker 1: like a million bucks, so not a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: but awareness is probably one of the biggest things because

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Speaker 1: a lot of artists would not play sun City, but

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Speaker 1: artists did very famously. There's a list the Beach Boys did, Share,

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Speaker 1: did Linda Ronstadt, did Sinatra? Did e Liza Minelli, Rod

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Speaker 1: Stewart very disappointingly, Elton John Queen and Dolly Parton call

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Speaker 1: played sun City.

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Speaker 2: And Dolly oh. You know, so it was fairly heartbreaking

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Speaker 2: to read that, Yeah, because this wasn't like a oh

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Speaker 2: I hadn't heard kind of thing. This was like, I

435
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 2: don't care enough, I'm going to go to Sun City.

436
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 2: They're paying me a bunch of money to go to

437
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 2: this one concert date that I could easily cancel, you.

438
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, agreed. Supposedly, I'm not even going to say

439
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: in their defense because I don't really know what they

440
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: were thinking, But supposedly they were told by the people

441
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 1: at sun City, like, hey, there's an exception for us,

442
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: and we can actually have a segregated audience, so like

443
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: you should come play. So I don't know if that's

444
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: the guys they did in under or not. That's the list.

445
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, so this is a big deal. Like

446
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 2: sports entertainment, that's a really good way to get your

447
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 2: boycott spread far and wide, because that's what the average

448
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 2: person is paying attention to more than like the news

449
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 2: or foreign policy. They're like, wait a minute, why is

450
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: cool Mode not going to South Africa? I should probably

451
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 2: look into that. And so when you get people into it,

452
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: things actually happen. Right there was the US Congress passed

453
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 2: the Comprehensive Anti Aparthepe Act, and it was one of

454
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 2: the more putative sanctions packages the America has ever dealt

455
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: against any country. And Ronald Reagan even vetoed it and

456
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 2: Congress overrode his veto. Was the first time in thirteen

457
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: years that Congress had overridden a presidential veto, and they said, no,

458
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 2: this is getting passed, and so it did get passed.

459
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: And you know, you might be like, wow, that was

460
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: brave and assertive of Congress. They must really have cared

461
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: about dismantling apartheid, and I'm sure some of them did.

462
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 2: But I think what it says more than anything is

463
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 2: just how far and wide America was anti apartheid by

464
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 2: this time. That Congress is like, we're going to override

465
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: a presidential veto of the most popular president America's had

466
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 2: in recent history, because all of our constituents.

467
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: Are like, go do that, yeah, because they read about

468
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: cool mode. Yeah, they wouldn't have it, yep. Yeah. And

469
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: you know a lot of time, when the US does something,

470
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: the world follows back then at least, and once the

471
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: US put their sanctions in place, other countries came aboard

472
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: in Europe and Asia, and a lot of economic pressure

473
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: was put on South Africa and Mandela was Eventually the

474
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: Berlin Wall fell in eighty nine, which basically said South

475
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: Africa is not like a protection against communism in Africa, now,

476
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: no need for that. Mandela was freed ninety and then

477
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: over the next four years it was kind of little

478
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: by little dismantled. I think finally ninety four it was

479
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: when it was officially over.

480
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: So that was successful, ful, I would say, for sure.

481
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: There was another one that was pretty successful that was

482
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 2: much more recent. Back in twenty sixteen, in North Carolina,

483
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: they passed the Public Facilities, Privacy and Security Act, much

484
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: more well known as the Bathroom Bill, which basically said

485
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: that in North Carolina, you have to use a public

486
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: restroom for the sex that you were assigned at birth.

487
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 2: So essentially it's like trans people, you can't use public

488
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: restrooms that you identify with. People call it mean spirited,

489
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 2: evil it was anti trains, It was an attack on

490
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: a group of people, and it really it kind of

491
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: took off. It became one of the first really viral

492
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: boycotts on social media back in twenty sixteen. It had

493
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: a huge effect.

494
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was one where hitting in the wallet

495
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: was a big deal because corporations got involved. PayPal cancel

496
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: plans to build an office in Charlotte. You know, entertainers

497
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: got involved. The course, Springsteen as always the Boss wouldn't

498
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: play in sun City or Greensboro.

499
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 2: Ain't gonna played Greensboro.

500
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: And then of course a lot of other bands said

501
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: what the Boss does we follow movie studios pulled out,

502
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: which hit them in the financial pocketbook. Of course, said

503
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: we're not going to shoot there. Sports again gets involved.

504
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: The NCAA moved several different college championships out in North Carolina.

505
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: The NBA threat to pull the All Star Weekend out

506
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: of Charlotte.

507
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 2: They followed two They moved it to New Orleans that year.

508
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, so all this told cost of the state of

509
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: North Carolina three point seven six billion dollars in the

510
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: year that that bill was around. They repealed it in

511
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen.

512
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: Man, that's crazy that's a lot of money to lose

513
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 2: in just a year.

514
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: Chuck, And that's why it was effective.

515
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 2: So you want to take a break and come back

516
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: and talk about whether social media boycotts are effective, let's

517
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: do it. Okay. So we're back, and we have entered

518
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 2: a brand new age of boycotts. Thanks to social media.

519
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: It is really easy to start a boycott, for a

520
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 2: boycott to go viral, and then for the news to

521
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: report on boycott's and how they did. It's almost it's

522
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: like a spectator sport to a certain extent. Oh, here's

523
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: this new boycott how to do? Two months on, I

524
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: saw an article on Newsweek and the title was, here

525
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 2: are the corporations being boycotted in June. It's just become

526
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 2: that like pedestrian.

527
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we should read this one stat there's

528
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: one study that found that fifty four percent of top

529
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: brands more than half have been boycotted, huh, and forty

530
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: two percent of multinational corporations. And we're not saying like

531
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: poor multinational corporations, but just sort of driving home the

532
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: point like you were saying that. I mean, you said,

533
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, two months later, we'll see how it's doing.

534
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: Two months later, people might be like, oh, are we

535
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: boycotting that still?

536
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: I thought that was done. I thought we'd moved on,

537
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: which is kind.

538
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: Of the one of the problems with the social media boycotts.

539
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: It is because with social media, I mean by definition,

540
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: it's your attention span is just careening from place to

541
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 2: place constantly. It's really hard to stop and focus. And

542
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: that's a big thing that boycotts require, his focus, dedication,

543
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 2: organization growth. When you know two, yeah, when three quarters

544
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: of the people who are boycotting with you the first

545
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: week moved on to something else, your boycott's hurting, right.

546
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: But that is not to say that boycotts starting on

547
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: social media aren't effective. And there's a couple in very

548
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: recent memory that you can use to show how what's

549
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: effective and what isn't effective, because that's what people like

550
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: to do with boycotts these days. Talk about that.

551
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we should also point out that you're going

552
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: to hear another word in describing these things. It's a

553
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: word bycott, and that is the counter to boycott. When

554
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: because most of these are or political in nature, obviously

555
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: hot button issues and evenly sort of divided because the

556
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: United States is pretty much evenly divided at the point

557
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: politically down.

558
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: To a guiding Eugene who votes twice for one freach party,

559
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: just to be fair. That's how divided America is.

560
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when there is a boycott, there is also

561
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: generally a bycot when the other part of the country says, oh, yeah,

562
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: well I'm going to buy that thing because you don't

563
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: want to buy that thing, because we like what they're saying. So,

564
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: Goya is a very popular Hispanic food brand here in

565
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: the US. Great black beans. I love this Goya black beans, Goya,

566
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: that's right. In twenty twenty, it was big news when

567
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: the CEO of Goya attended an event at the White

568
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: House and was praising Donald Trump, and a lot of

569
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: people got upset about that, and Democratic Representative Alexandria Acasio

570
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: Cartes said, hey, we need a boycott Goya. And it

571
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: turns out that that didn't work so well because it

572
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: didn't hit enough of those things that you need to

573
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: do to have a successful.

574
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: Boycott, and also because AOC is a bycot magnet for sure.

575
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: So there were a couple of things. So there was

576
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: a The boycott sparked a bycot among conservatives because in

577
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: the United States. For those of you who don't live here,

578
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: when you choose a side on a boycott, you're defending

579
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 2: your political beliefs. That's just how they work here. I'm

580
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 2: not sure if it's like that the rest of the

581
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: world around, but that is definitely how they work here.

582
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: And the reasons that Goya wasn't successful as a buy

583
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: or as a boycott was because there are a lot

584
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: of people Latin Hispanic households who did not have a

585
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: dog in that fight, who did not choose sides, who

586
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 2: were not like, what are you talking about? We buy

587
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: Goya products, like this doesn't make any sense. And then

588
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: a lot of those households also are conservatives too, so

589
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: they probably would have bought Goya products had they not

590
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: been buying them already, just to show their support.

591
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the bycot that it triggered, apparently Goya got

592
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: a twenty two percent bump in sales because of that bycot,

593
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: but it did not last long because, like you said,

594
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: a lot of those people who were like, yeah, I'm

595
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: gonna start buying Goya stuff because this guy praised Donald Trump,

596
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: they weren't Goya customers before. So maybe sometimes you get

597
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: someone from a bycot that's like, hey, these black beans

598
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: are dynamite. That that's my brand from now on. But

599
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: in this case, it was a quick bump in sales

600
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: and then they were like nope, back to old l

601
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: Paso and those sales kind of leveled out.

602
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: Yes, that's actually on the if you flip flop the

603
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: political spectrum. The same thing happened to Nike not too

604
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: many years ago when they supported Colin Kaepernick while he

605
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: was taking a knee during the national anthem, and there

606
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 2: was a huge backlash on social media against Nike for

607
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 2: supporting him. Their people were burning their Nikes and making

608
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 2: videos of it, posting it on social media. But it

609
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: spurred a bycot to support Nike, and Nike made out

610
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 2: like bandits for that. They had what analysts suspect was

611
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: an additional six billion dollars in sale in a handful

612
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: of weeks following the boycott. The call for the boycott,

613
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: the buycot gave them that much extra money. The support

614
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: came out for them like that.

615
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: That's right. Then the NFL got back at Colin Kapernick

616
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: by essentially blackballing him.

617
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we should probably mention.

618
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: Bud Light because we mentioned it earlier. That was another

619
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: very recent one. In twenty twenty three, transgender influencer Dylan

620
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: mulvaney had a TikTok video announcing a contest sponsored by

621
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: bud Light, and in that video had the nerve to

622
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: show a can of bud Light that the company center

623
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: with an image of her face on it. And that

624
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: was it. The conservative right got up in arms and

625
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: they said bud Light is dead to us, Go woke,

626
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: go broke. And in the three months following that post

627
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: bud Light sales went down twenty eight percent compared to

628
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: the same period in prior years, and the damage was

629
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: worse in Republican leaning districts I think thirty two percent

630
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: compared to twenty two percent in Democrat districts.

631
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, but ultimately overall, eight months after the initial boycott

632
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: they were down thirty two percent overall in sales.

633
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean it was a successful boycott by

634
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: all accounts.

635
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 2: Man, they went berserk about that. It was a big

636
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: deal here in the US, that bud Light. So just

637
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: to be clear, they sent Dylan mulvaney one can with

638
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 2: Dylan Mulvaney's face on it. This was not for sale

639
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,479
Speaker 2: or anything like that, but that was all it took.

640
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: And yeah, bud Light just took a beating. They were

641
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: the number one selling beer. I don't even think just

642
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: light beer, I think beer in the United States. And

643
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: they dropped down. They dropped down to third in just

644
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 2: a few weeks. Right. The reason why, there are a

645
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 2: few reasons why substitutability. You could easily just switch to

646
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: Corslight Miller's Light, and your tastebuds would have no idea

647
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: that you'd switched. But apparently a lot of people switched

648
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 2: to MODELO Especial, which we'll get to in a second.

649
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 2: And then also, and this explains why bud Light did this,

650
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 2: because in retrospect, you're like, that was one of the

651
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 2: more tone deaf things that a brand has ever done.

652
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 2: But it turns out bud Light's customer base is pretty

653
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: evenly divided along the political spectrum. So I think they

654
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 2: just thought like they were doing what they do and

655
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 2: we're clearly not expecting that kind of backlash. Companies in

656
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: that situation are much more vulnerable to a backlash when

657
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: they take any kind of political stance or social stance.

658
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, like when it's a pretty even split on who

659
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: likes your product, exactly.

660
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean if it were all like if

661
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: bud Light's entire customer base were LGBTQ, they put if

662
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: they had Dylan mulvany be like a brand ambassador, it

663
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 2: would not matter at all. But because half of their

664
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 2: people probably have unflattering views on trans people, yes, it

665
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: really put a herding on them. And then the last

666
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: one was observability is what they call it.

667
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes you consume a product in private, like the

668
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: black beans you're eating.

669
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 2: Right out of the can.

670
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not just walking around eating a can of

671
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: black beans in public. But other stuff, you know, it's

672
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: a little more visible and like you know, tailgating and

673
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: being out in public with a beer, being in a

674
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: bar with a beer, it's a much more public product

675
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: that you're consuming. And researchers found that even if you

676
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: were liberal and you were a beer drinker, you might

677
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: have avoided drinking bud Light in public just because of

678
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: the controversy over it.

679
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: One of the big there's an ironic twist I guess

680
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: to this whole thing. I said that MODELO Especial became

681
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 2: I think the number one selling beer after bud Light

682
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 2: dropped off in the couple weeks after the boycott started

683
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: against bud Light, Modello's sales went up thirty six million

684
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 2: dollars more than bud light sales.

685
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing.

686
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Modello is like, this is great. The thing

687
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: is is Modello and bud Light are both owned and

688
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: distributed by the same companies, So it was like robbing

689
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 2: Peter to pay Paul, or a Twitter user put it.

690
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 2: I think I found this on Vox maybe in an

691
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 2: article by Stephanie grob Plante. It was like boycotting the

692
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: Big Mac by eating a quarter pounder instead.

693
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's kind of what I was talking about

694
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: earlier with just I think boycotts are just not thought

695
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: through as much these days because I don't know, there's

696
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: so many mega companies that own all these smaller things.

697
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: You really got to do your homework to figure out, like,

698
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I can't switch to this thing because

699
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: they're also owned by that thing.

700
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think though that one's not the most slammed

701
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 2: dunk ironic twist there is, because I think even if

702
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: they knew that it was the same general company Anheuser Busch,

703
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 2: the iyer was directed at bud Light. They wanted to

704
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 2: punish bud Light the brand specifically.

705
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

706
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were definitely successful with that.

707
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Good point.

708
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: So, Chuck, there's a couple of things. I think we

709
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: should wrap it up by talking about, like whether these

710
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 2: things are worth doing, whether companies should take a social stance.

711
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 2: Let's do that, shall we?

712
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, first of all, we mentioned earlier that

713
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily have to be the big financial hit

714
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: to cause the problem these days, just the bad press

715
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: and then a negative press can hurt a company's reputation.

716
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: That could potentially hurt a stock price, but I mean, really,

717
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: the only thing that's going to damage the stock price

718
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: or bad sales. So at the end of the day,

719
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: it kind of is money. They can probably withstand bad press,

720
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: but they don't love it.

721
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: No, But if you can turn the markets on the company,

722
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:13,479
Speaker 2: that's a big deal.

723
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. As far as whether people think companies

724
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 1: should get involved with this, it depends on who you asked.

725
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: There was a survey I think from twenty seventeen, is

726
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: that right, Mm hmm, yeah, not too long ago. It's

727
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: found that ninety percent of American consumers expect companies to

728
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: take an active role in addressing social concerns. There was

729
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: a different survey that found that sixty three percent of

730
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: millennials and sixty percent of gen xers I think companies

731
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: have a more important role than governments do in driving

732
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: social change. So those are pretty disparate numbers.

733
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 2: Right, And people who advise companies, like there's an entire

734
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 2: industry on advising companies on stuff like this. They say

735
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 2: it comes down to the company culture. Do you stand

736
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 2: for things? Is are you the kind of company that

737
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: would ever stand for anything? Or are you just trying

738
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 2: to sell duck boots? You know, you have to ask

739
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 2: yourself these kind of things. Do you want to change

740
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 2: to be a different kind of company? Who knows. But

741
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: one of the things that they find is that it

742
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 2: is often worse to take a stand and then change

743
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 2: your stance than to take your stance at all, like

744
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 2: Target's wishy washy stance on DEI policies, right or Apparently

745
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 2: Another big one is companies will celebrate Pride Month in

746
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 2: a country that's that where Pride Month is much more acceptable,

747
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 2: they and then just not celebrate it in other countries

748
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: where there is Pride Month but it's not quite as

749
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: accepted as it is in the other countries. So having

750
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: like a wishy washy stance on stuff that can really

751
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 2: damage your company's image because if you basically are telling

752
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: the world like, we don't really actually have any values,

753
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,479
Speaker 2: we don't really care about anything social, We're just trying

754
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 2: to make money here. So even if you are a

755
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: company that chooses to take a stance, you really need

756
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 2: to stick with it and just stick with it did

757
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: or else just don't do it at all, but don't

758
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 2: make it take a stand and then backpedal.

759
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: Josh's advice to Corporate America, right.

760
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: And then on the other side, if you're just an

761
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: everyday person and you want to take part in a boycott.

762
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: I think one of the issues, Chuck, that we kind

763
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: of were hinting around throughout this episode is that a

764
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 2: problem is that you can become complacent like you're doing

765
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: enough by you know, liking a tweet and then not

766
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: buying Kellogg's cereal for a week, and at the end

767
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 2: of the day you feel like you're doing your part

768
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 2: when you're really not doing much and there's a lot

769
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: more work to be done. That's kind of a big

770
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 2: danger of it, for sure.

771
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, rand I'm very relieved because

772
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: a few minutes ago, I thought you were about to

773
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: say something about ll Bean. Nope, when you mentioned duck boots,

774
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, don't tell me. I got

775
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 1: to get rid of my duck boots.

776
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got mine too, And luckily there are other

777
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: brands that make duck boots, but not like llll Beans. No, though, sure,

778
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: I've got some Sperry's that are pretty good. Oh yeah, okay,

779
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: I like Sperry's, So there you go. And then lastly, Chuck,

780
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: I actually corresponded with a professor at Melbourne Business School

781
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 2: in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia about something. Yeah, and I did

782
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 2: that with Jill Klein. I found an article called why

783
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: we Boycott Consumer Motivations for boycott participation and it's from

784
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: all the way back in two thousand and four. But

785
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: I asked her, like, okay, is this does this still apply?

786
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 2: And she said yes, because these four motivators that the

787
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: study turned up were based on basic psychological processes that

788
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: are unlikely to change in twenty years. That's what she said, right,

789
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 2: So they found four motivators that are that are the

790
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 2: better predictors of whether somebody takes part in a boycott.

791
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 2: Do you want to hear them or should we just

792
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 2: end the episode here? Hey, it's up to you, Bun,

793
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 2: I'll go forward with them. One is egregiousness, That is

794
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 2: how badly a company behaved or how bad the thing

795
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 2: that the come any who supporting is efficacy, So the

796
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: person's judgment on whether the boycott's going to make any

797
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: difference whatsoever self enhancement is one. Is it going to

798
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: make them look good? Is it going to make them

799
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 2: feel good about themselves for doing it? And then estimated

800
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: participation of others. So the more people you have joining in,

801
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 2: the more the person is likely to join in, which

802
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: I call the cool mode effect.

803
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: It's a good thing I got here because I know

804
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: for a fact she rolled that up, put it in

805
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: a bottle, corked it and threw it in the ocean.

806
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe how fast that current carried it here

807
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:32,720
Speaker 2: in like twelve hours.

808
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: Pretty impressive, Pretty impressive.

809
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 2: So thanks a lot doctor Jill Klein of Melbourne Business

810
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 2: School and her co author Andrew John, who also weighed

811
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: in on the email.

812
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: I love it.

813
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 2: Thanks to everybody who helped us out with this, including Dave,

814
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 2: and thank you for listening to this episode, and since

815
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 2: I just thanked everybody, it's time for listener mail.

816
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: This is from a guy and Athens and this is

817
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: about our styrofoam. Hey guys, longtime listener. I run a

818
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: business over near Athens where we Athens Storture. That is

819
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: where we recycle ninety to ninety five percent of our waist.

820
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: We're primarily a candle company, but also have a quaint

821
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: retail store in downtown Monroe Nice where we make our

822
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: own products. When I started the business, I wanted ethical sourcing, sustainability,

823
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: and health to be our pillars of guidance. We source

824
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: all all of our materials from sustainable or recycled sources.

825
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: But we also have a huge recycling program where customers

826
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: can bring back their cleaned out old containers to be

827
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: exchanged for discounts on new products.

828
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 2: That's awesome because those things are hard to clean out.

829
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. So he's been going to Charm, they have

830
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: one in Athens, because we mentioned Charm, the great recycling

831
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: center for hard to recycle materials here in Atlanta that

832
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: Emily is dedicated to. And they've been going to Charm

833
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: four years. And he said, since I know the industry

834
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: lacks some transparency. I've decided to ask one of the

835
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 1: folks what they do with low density plastic and styrofoam

836
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: that I drop off since I heard those things typically

837
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: have a low conversion rate into new material. And to

838
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: your pondering question from the episode about styroboam, the rep

839
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 1: told me they sell it to a company that actually

840
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: turns it into synthetic decking material, which I thought was

841
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:08,919
Speaker 1: pretty neat.

842
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

843
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: I love that, and thanks for all you do and

844
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: for being a good model of healthy friendship. Hey, hey,

845
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: how about that.

846
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 2: What a great way to put it.

847
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: And that is for Matt at the Rekindle Candle Company,

848
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 1: and you can just look online. This sounds like great

849
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: stuff with a great core mission. So just check out

850
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: the Rekindle Candle Company online for Math and S Georgia

851
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: and buy their stuff.

852
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 2: That name is adorable, Matt, I love it. Yeah, thanks

853
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 2: a lot for the email, Thanks a lot for what

854
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 2: you're doing up there. I'm going to go check out

855
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: Rekindle Candle Company either online or on person who knows

856
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: And if you want to be like Matt and send

857
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 2: us a great email, you can do. So wrap it up,

858
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 2: spank it on the bottom and send it off to

859
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

860
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

861
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple

862
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: pod tests, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.