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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson

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Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. This week we talked about in

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Speaker 1: Narcis Montreal and his submarines. Sure did. Boy, did that

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Speaker 1: turn out to have a lot more information than I

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Speaker 1: thought going into it. When I originally started doing the

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Speaker 1: research on this, I was really thinking what we were

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Speaker 1: going to have was a broader history of submarines and

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Speaker 1: submarine technology, like starting with the diving bells, right, and

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Speaker 1: then going with more detail about these various other efforts

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Speaker 1: before before Montreal. We did mention some of them in

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Speaker 1: the context of like the research he was doing, to

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Speaker 1: be like how am I going to build the submarine?

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Speaker 1: But then more of the development afterwards, which of course

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Speaker 1: goes from these kinds of passion projects people inventing things,

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Speaker 1: limited governments trying to see whether this would work to them,

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Speaker 1: you know, submarines obviously becoming a meaningful part of World

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Speaker 1: War One and then World War Two. And I had

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Speaker 1: a whole section of like basic submarine history all written out,

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Speaker 1: and then as I was working on it, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, actually his whole time in Barcelona before starting

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Speaker 1: on the submarines is really interesting and connected to something

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Speaker 1: that we've already talked about. I love a lot of

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Speaker 1: his idealism and how that idealism, even though he changed

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Speaker 1: how he focused on it, kind of like stuck with

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Speaker 1: him for most of his life until he was like,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'll make cannons well. And that just seems

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Speaker 1: to have been at least partially motivated by being out

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Speaker 1: of money. Yeah, and that seems to me. We alluded

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Speaker 1: to the fact that he seems to have had this

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Speaker 1: really close and loving relationship with his wife and that there,

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Speaker 1: you know, did become times that it seemed like their

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Speaker 1: circumstances were causing some strain, and that those were the

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Speaker 1: kinds of times when they just had no money, no

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Speaker 1: real prospects of how to make money, and then in

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Speaker 1: some cases also he was having to flee arrest in

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Speaker 1: addition to all that, and it like, it does sound

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Speaker 1: like those times were really hard, but that was more

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Speaker 1: about the circumstances they were in than their relationship with

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Speaker 1: each other. Yeah, the models of the submarines are so

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Speaker 1: cool and I have discovered and working on several podcasts

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Speaker 1: recently that have been inspired by seeing something in a museum.

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Speaker 1: I have developed a habit that I didn't really know

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Speaker 1: I had until looking back at this that I will

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Speaker 1: see something that interests me in a museum, I will

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Speaker 1: take a picture of the interpretive sign that has the

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Speaker 1: information about what I think. But then somehow I keep

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Speaker 1: not also taking a picture of the actual thing. Oh

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Speaker 1: so I have these pictures of signs about these submarines,

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Speaker 1: but not pictures of the actual submarine models. I had

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Speaker 1: to go and like look back up on the internet

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Speaker 1: and then if having the same situation of did we

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Speaker 1: actually see there was and maybe is again like a

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Speaker 1: large scale model of one of the submarines outside of

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Speaker 1: the Maritime History Museum that sometime in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years they had to take off of display to

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Speaker 1: do some conservation and restorate sh work on it, because

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, exposed to the elements all the time.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, was that outside and we walked

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Speaker 1: past it? Or have I just now seen so many

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Speaker 1: pictures of the thing where it was that it's all

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Speaker 1: blurred together because at this point our Barcelona trip was

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Speaker 1: not quite a year ago, but we're coming up on

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Speaker 1: a year ago, and we saw so many things and

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Speaker 1: I took so many pictures. Well, the other thing that's

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Speaker 1: going on too, right, I was just talking to somebody

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Speaker 1: about this the other day, is that, like that is

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Speaker 1: a time where there is so much input any one

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Speaker 1: of those trips, which we love very much, but like

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Speaker 1: you're taking in a lot of things, you're also trying

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Speaker 1: to learn the names of like thirty new people. In

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Speaker 1: some cases, you're also you know, just trying to make

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Speaker 1: sure that you have the schedule ready and that we're

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Speaker 1: interacting with Michael who runs those trips, and like that

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Speaker 1: were doing everything we're supposed to. Like I can't fall

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Speaker 1: to anybody for not remembering stuff on those trips because

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Speaker 1: there is so much input. Yeah, I don't think your

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Speaker 1: brain could parse at all. No, no, uh. And there've

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Speaker 1: also been times when I have run into someone who

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Speaker 1: was on one of those trips in an unexpected place

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Speaker 1: and just had it felt like a jerk because I

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Speaker 1: was like, I know, I know you from somewhere. The

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Speaker 1: person is like I was in Paris with you. Oh great,

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Speaker 1: great now I know. So Anyway, I do think the

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Speaker 1: submarines like they're just they're so beautiful and cool looking

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Speaker 1: to me. He was not the only person to make

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Speaker 1: wooden submarines, right, but I did find them to be

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Speaker 1: very beautiful. And it is likely that he was inspired

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Speaker 1: by his father's profession as a barrel maker in how

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Speaker 1: to make a wooden submarine like a wine barrel, but

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Speaker 1: a fish wine barrel. I love it. I have some

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Speaker 1: thoughts about law school, okay, because I feel like this

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Speaker 1: has come up a few times recently where someone that

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Speaker 1: we have talked about on the podcast goes to law

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Speaker 1: school but never becomes a lawyer, like we mentioned it

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Speaker 1: for example in the Hevelius episode. Yeah, and I think

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Speaker 1: part of it is that there were a lot of

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Speaker 1: people going to law school during some of these earlier

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Speaker 1: times that had no intention of practicing law. Sure, it

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Speaker 1: had more to do with almost being a business school situation,

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Speaker 1: oh yea yeah, where they were understanding business law to

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Speaker 1: help the family business or whatever and get a solid education.

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Speaker 1: It really wasn't about I will become a lawyer. I

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Speaker 1: think that's why a lot of them are like and

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Speaker 1: they never had any sort of any sort of law career.

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Speaker 1: I think that is probably what is informing some of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it also is totally believable to me that he would

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Speaker 1: have been just giving his tuition money to revel one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent. I also have a very silly thing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's so silly. Okay, every time we said ictinio, particularly

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Speaker 1: when we get to icteni O one and Actenio two, listen,

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Speaker 1: all I can think of is the ecdo one from

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Speaker 1: Ghostbusters or just sound enough alike that I'm like, how

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Speaker 1: can we make this into a ghost story? Where is

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Speaker 1: slimer where? Yeah? Well, in the early stages of working

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Speaker 1: on this, the the word iktinio is similar enough to akaria,

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Speaker 1: Like they're not this, They're they just start with the

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Speaker 1: same letter. But like there was enough similarity there that

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Speaker 1: I was like, does it could he have also been

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Speaker 1: inspired by like this utopian place and I instead of justlogy? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: But I also did not go look up what's the

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Speaker 1: etymology of ikaria? How did Ettian Kabe come up with that? And?

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Speaker 1: Boy am I eager to get more into that whole story? Uh,

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Speaker 1: because it's a it's a it's a whole other thing.

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Speaker 1: There have been a lot of attempts at utopias. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all of them have a pretty interesting story because it's

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Speaker 1: hard to set up an idealized community in a non

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Speaker 1: ideal world, right, right, We are all imperfect, inconsistent humans, right,

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Speaker 1: humans are not by nature ideal? Definitely not. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: had something else completely on my what I'm going to

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Speaker 1: do next list, and I was like, No, we're going

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Speaker 1: to be talking about a failed utopian I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's a spoiler to say it was a failed utopian

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Speaker 1: experien air, right, because that's the case for most of them. Uh,

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Speaker 1: even even more as successful one. Well, I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: even ones that were somewhat more successful or like in

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Speaker 1: a in a limited way, like maybe the community still exists,

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Speaker 1: but not in the hyper idealized way that it was

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Speaker 1: originally conceived of. Or what we're actually going to have

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Speaker 1: is our up upcoming Saturday Classic, because there's some overlap

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Speaker 1: there on on the the communities at New Harmony had

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Speaker 1: some some some ways that those communities were more successful

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Speaker 1: than a lot of other ones that we have talked about,

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Speaker 1: which I'll just leave that for the Saturday Classic to

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Speaker 1: go into in more detail rather than rehashing it all

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Speaker 1: right now. I had to talk to Anne Burne this week,

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Speaker 1: you did, I was not. I was on vacation, so

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Speaker 1: I have neither talked to Anne Burne nor read this book.

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Speaker 1: I had an interesting thing happen mm hmmm, which is

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Speaker 1: that Anne and I were in the same room. What. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I went to the office, which I don't normally do.

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Speaker 1: I usually record from home. It's kind of a hike

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Speaker 1: to our office, Like the way from here to there

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Speaker 1: is very trafficky, and so I'm almost never in the office.

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Speaker 1: But Anne was like, ooh, could we record in person?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, of course, because I would do

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Speaker 1: anything for that woman. I even say in the opener,

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to shade any of our other guests,

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Speaker 1: but Anne is my favorite guest. No, I love her.

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Speaker 1: She's just a wonderful human. She is as much of

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Speaker 1: a delight when she's talking about not baking is when

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Speaker 1: she's talking about baking. And she's so smart and she

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Speaker 1: knows so much stuff. And I got to meet her husband,

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Speaker 1: who is also just charming and sweet as heck. So

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Speaker 1: it was a really, really wonderful, wonderful thing. And I

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Speaker 1: got to see Casey, our producer, in person, which we

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Speaker 1: also don't usually get to do, so it was kind

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Speaker 1: of a good, good time to meet up with everybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you and I were supposed to have this experience when

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Speaker 1: I was in Atlanta for union bargaining, but you were ill.

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Speaker 1: I well, it did not work out. I would well,

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Speaker 1: and you were about to visit your family, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't want any accidental transmission of yuck. Yeah, so we did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we did not do that. I had to figure out

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Speaker 1: how to get into our office right because I don't

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Speaker 1: go in right. We had some struggles with that when

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Speaker 1: I was We figured it out. It worked out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, but yeah, and now I know, and now

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Speaker 1: I could just go in there whenever I want. I

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Speaker 1: got my stuff, I got my badge, I got a

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Speaker 1: digital badge. I'm ready. I haven't gotten to bake the

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Speaker 1: cantalope pie that I discussed in the yeah, the thing,

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Speaker 1: but there are so many things. I haven't had time

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Speaker 1: to bake it anything, which really stinks, because I'm in

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Speaker 1: I yearn to bake right now. I'm just in that mode.

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Speaker 1: But I really was kind of blown away by how

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Speaker 1: much her book is really a history book that just

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Speaker 1: has also has recipes in it, more so even than

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Speaker 1: her previous ones. Yeah, because there really is a lot

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Speaker 1: of discussion about all of the various trends that have developed,

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Speaker 1: you know, the agricultural things that were going on in

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Speaker 1: ways that are not just like related to one recipe

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Speaker 1: at a time. I want, I want to bake. I

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Speaker 1: want everyone to read this book. I want all the

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Speaker 1: things I do. Love that Anne is like, here are

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Speaker 1: all the people in this book that you might want

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Speaker 1: to talk about for future episodes, because she's not wrong.

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Speaker 1: Some of them are really good. And then when we

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Speaker 1: were done, she and I talked about our episode where

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Speaker 1: we discussed German chocolate cake and how we figured out

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Speaker 1: that the pecan blight was why it seemed to not

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Speaker 1: exist and then suddenly exist in abundance in write Oklahoma

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Speaker 1: and Texas. And she was like a pecan blite. We

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Speaker 1: had a great discussion about pecon blite as you do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: did you talk about chestnut blite? No, because that wasn't

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Speaker 1: germane to that particular thing. Okay, Okay. I asked this

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Speaker 1: because I've also at this point not listened to the episode,

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Speaker 1: so that's gonna happen later. Well, And when we talked

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Speaker 1: about pecon blit, it wasn't in the episode either. It

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Speaker 1: was like us just just you know, shooting the breeze afterwards. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I could talk to Ann forever. Also, when Anne

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Speaker 1: Burne comes to do an interview, she brings baked goods.

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Speaker 1: I just she brought pecan tasses. They were amazing. Yum,

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Speaker 1: they were incredible. It's the recipe that's in the book

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Speaker 1: Casey and I had some, and I took some home

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Speaker 1: to my beloved delicious, delicious, nice, delicious. I'm just saying

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Speaker 1: if everybody brought baked goods every time they got interviewed anywhere,

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Speaker 1: oo'd be a great world. I mean, I'm not doing it,

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Speaker 1: so that's not I'm just saying Anne is above all others.

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Speaker 1: I do have a silly question for you, okay, because

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Speaker 1: all of this put me in the mind of right,

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Speaker 1: we are headed into autumn. We are inarguably the best

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Speaker 1: time of year. I mean, people could argue. I know

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Speaker 1: people like other times of year, but do you bake

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Speaker 1: in autumn? Do you have baking dumb yearnings like I do.

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Speaker 1: I bake an enormous number of cookies for a vacation

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Speaker 1: that I take every this year. It turned out to

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Speaker 1: be much earlier in the progress toward autumn than normal

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Speaker 1: for just for some scheduling reasons, so as you were

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Speaker 1: either preparing for or literally I guess, I guess you

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Speaker 1: did this interview while I was on the vacation, so

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Speaker 1: I had already baked the enormous quantity of cookies. What

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Speaker 1: is an enormous quantity of cookies? A gross? I did

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Speaker 1: a I'm not actually sure how many dozen this the

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Speaker 1: individual recipe calls creates, but I did a double batch

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Speaker 1: of my recipe and then did an additional single batch

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Speaker 1: on top of that, and so this wound up requiring,

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Speaker 1: just for the sake of measurements, almost four twelve ounce

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Speaker 1: bags of chocolate chips. Nice, and they those cookies were

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Speaker 1: all eaten. I've reached an age where I hurt my

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Speaker 1: shoulder making these cookies. Also reached an age where I

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Speaker 1: don't remember exactly what I just said. And you did

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Speaker 1: not listen to the episode. But I'm curious. I have

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Speaker 1: a suspicion that I know you as a bit. Do

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Speaker 1: you measure with your heart or are you pretty careful

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Speaker 1: about measures? Uh? With these cookies specifically, I am pretty

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Speaker 1: careful about measures, because they do some less appetizing things.

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Speaker 1: If I mess it up with other stuffed though there

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Speaker 1: are things that I will be more casual about. And

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Speaker 1: then Patrick similarly, when he's learning how to do something,

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Speaker 1: he will be really really careful with how he's doing it.

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Speaker 1: And then as he sort of develops a sense of

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Speaker 1: how these ingredients work together and what they create, then

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Speaker 1: he will be more extemporaneous with stuff. You never told

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Speaker 1: us what kind of cookies these are? But oh they

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Speaker 1: were chocolate chip cookies, okay, with no nuts in them? No, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't like nuts in my baked goods generally, unless

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Speaker 1: it's a German chocolate cake where it's in the the

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Speaker 1: schmutz that goes on top of it. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: my mother's recipe which calls for nuts, but I don't

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Speaker 1: put them in there. I instead put more chocolate. I

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Speaker 1: have an obnoxious question. I don't mean to put you

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Speaker 1: on the spot. Okay, what about these chocolate chip cookies

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Speaker 1: makes them persnickety for measures? Because usually chocolate chippers are,

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Speaker 1: like you got, well, the sort of wet to dry

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Speaker 1: ingredient ratio. I will wind up with them like spreading

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Speaker 1: too much and become But like even so, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: measuring by scooping the scoop in the flower with a

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Speaker 1: dry measuring cup. I'm not like weighing it. I know

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Speaker 1: people that have converted all of their baked recipes to

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Speaker 1: weights instead of We talked about that a lot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: uh so, I would say there are some ways that

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of like a little more loosey goosey about it.

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Speaker 1: But there's still a recipe that I am following that

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Speaker 1: calls for specific amounts. Oh, I do kind of eyeball

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Speaker 1: how much additional chip goes into it to make up

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Speaker 1: for the fact that I'm not putting in any nuts. Gotcha.

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Speaker 1: That's measured with my heart. Gotcha. I often try to

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Speaker 1: be very careful, and I have a scale in my wigh.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever told you the story

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Speaker 1: of the best macaron i ever made, which is that

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Speaker 1: it was for a Criminalia recipe. I wanted to make

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Speaker 1: an alcoholic milkshake that had some caramel macaron blended into it.

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Speaker 1: Sounds great and as a garnish. And we have our

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Speaker 1: local bakery that's just up the street normally always has

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Speaker 1: caramel macaron not that day, and I was like, oh, shaboodles,

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Speaker 1: I really need these for this today because I have

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Speaker 1: to record in a few hours. And I want to

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Speaker 1: make sure this recipe works, and I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: run all over town looking for any so I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'll just make some. They won't have the overnight sitting period,

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Speaker 1: but that's fine, and like, I've made macanon before and

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Speaker 1: they are notoriously persnicketty and you got I was so

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Speaker 1: sloppy jalopy with this round. And I didn't sift really

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Speaker 1: and I didn't do any of the things you are

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Speaker 1: definitely told that you absolutely need to be very careful about,

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Speaker 1: and which I normally am. And I rushed through the

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Speaker 1: whole thing and they were the best macanon I ever made.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, dang, dang it, Why am I

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Speaker 1: being careful all the time when apparently when I'm paying

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Speaker 1: no attention they turn out just right. Would you like

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Speaker 1: to know where I had the worst macaron I've ever had?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because in France. Really, Yeah, before we

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Speaker 1: took our podcast trip to Paris, which was that in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. It seems like it was prior to the

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Speaker 1: start of the pandemic. It's not relevant to the story, actually,

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Speaker 1: but Patrick and I. Patrick needed some clothes. He did

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Speaker 1: not feel like he had enough clothing that would be

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Speaker 1: suitable for walking around in warm temperatures in Paris, and

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Speaker 1: so we had gone to the mall and there was

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Speaker 1: a mall Kiosk selling mackerel and I just got incredibly excited,

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Speaker 1: and Patrick was like, are we not going to France

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Speaker 1: literally tomorrow? There will be plenty of macrol there. And

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Speaker 1: I got them almost every time I saw them while

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Speaker 1: we were in France, and I had several that were

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Speaker 1: very good. The worst ones, though, were purchased at Charles

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Speaker 1: Digaull Airport. No, not Laingerie. I could not tell you

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Speaker 1: the specific name of where. So this was we had

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Speaker 1: been misinformed about what we were going to see on

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Speaker 1: the other side of security yet at the airport, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this is the case throughout the airport,

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Speaker 1: but where our gate was there was really almost nothing

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Speaker 1: in terms of getting anything to eat or drink. And

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Speaker 1: I bought a thing of macarrel. Had a little news

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Speaker 1: stand there and they were terrible. Oh if it was

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Speaker 1: at a newsstand. Now, Yeah, we had a laderie in

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Speaker 1: our terminal, which was great. Yeah. We we had like

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Speaker 1: a news stand and a little sandwich counter and some

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Speaker 1: vending machines and a couple of extremely delayed flights, so

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Speaker 1: way way, way too many people for the available space.

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Speaker 1: It was just it was not great. It was not

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Speaker 1: great for the return home, and it was the worst,

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Speaker 1: the worst macrol I'd ever had. The saddest. I did

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Speaker 1: have a great and really funny and quite charming macroom

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Speaker 1: experience at Charles de gaul once where we had a layover.

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Speaker 1: I think it was when we were coming back from

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Speaker 1: London last year because we had been at Star Wars

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Speaker 1: celebration and I got in line at laderie and there

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Speaker 1: were these two dudes in front of me and their twenties,

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Speaker 1: and they're kind of like they look a little confused

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Speaker 1: and like they're not really sure what they're doing there.

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Speaker 1: And one of them says to the other, I swear

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Speaker 1: to God, the menu says there are rose cookies here,

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Speaker 1: and the guys like, no, there's just such I guess

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Speaker 1: flower cookies. And I just like lean forward and I said,

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Speaker 1: sorry to eavestrop, but they are rose flavored. Then they

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Speaker 1: turned around and they were like really, and I was

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Speaker 1: like yeah, they were like, what other flavors? And we

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Speaker 1: started talking and then as we got up to the

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Speaker 1: front of the line. They were like, will you just

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Speaker 1: pick our box out for us? Yeah, please give me

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Speaker 1: one of everything. And I was like, you definitely want

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Speaker 1: the black sesame because it's the most delicious. They were

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Speaker 1: like black sesame. And they went from kind of incredulous

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Speaker 1: about these cookies and it's kind of seeming like they

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Speaker 1: thought they were silly to be really excited to eat

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Speaker 1: them and try all the flavors. And it was very

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Speaker 1: cute and they were very very sweet. Can't wait for

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Speaker 1: more of that in my life. Yeah, but if you're

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Speaker 1: in New York and I think Chicago, you can get

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Speaker 1: latter whenever you want. That's great. Yeah, whatever you want.

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Speaker 1: I hope if you're doing baking this weekend or any

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Speaker 1: time in your life, that it turns out great, whether

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Speaker 1: you measure with your heart or with a scale, and

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Speaker 1: that if you have some time off this weekend, whether

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Speaker 1: you're baking or not, that you get some rest and

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Speaker 1: relaxation and you get to come out of the time

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Speaker 1: off refreshed. If you don't have time off and you have,

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Speaker 1: you know, stuff you gotta do, whether that's work or

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Speaker 1: just a lot of obligations, I still hope you get

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Speaker 1: some rest and I hope you have fun. I hope

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Speaker 1: everybody is cool to each other. We will be right

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Speaker 1: back here tomorrow with a classic episode, and then on

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Speaker 1: Monday with something brand new. Stuff you Missed in History

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Speaker 1: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.