Speaker 1: For the last twenty five years, the US women's soccer
Speaker 1: team has been a cultural juggernaut. When I was growing up,
Speaker 1: there was Mia Hamm and Brandy Chastain. Today's sports fans
Speaker 1: have Alex Morgan and Megan Rappino. But when it comes
Speaker 1: to the US men's team, I actually can't name a
Speaker 1: single player. The women's team wins World Cups, the men's
Speaker 1: team doesn't even qualify. The women's team's popularity, though, doesn't
Speaker 1: show up in their paychecks. No matter how famous female
Speaker 1: athletes are in soccer or in anything else, they don't
Speaker 1: make anywhere close to what men do. The US women's
Speaker 1: soccer team wants to change that. A few months ago,
Speaker 1: they filed a lawsuit against the US Soccer Federation asking
Speaker 1: for equal pay for equal work. Last week I went
Speaker 1: to London to tape a live episode of this show
Speaker 1: all about women's Soccer. We talked about the growing professional
Speaker 1: league there, the World Cup, and whether female athletes will
Speaker 1: ever make what men do. But before I went, I
Speaker 1: wanted to understand what's going on here in the US.
Speaker 1: Eman Novi Williams, covers sports for Bloomberg, asked him to
Speaker 1: tell me why female soccer players make so much less
Speaker 1: than men him, Hi, are you thanks for coming? Thanks
Speaker 1: for having me. So in March, the US women's soccer
Speaker 1: team filed this big lawsuit for a gender discrimination Can
Speaker 1: you tell me about it? They are women's national soccer team,
Speaker 1: for those who don't know, a tremendously successful program on
Speaker 1: the on the global world stage. Is asking for essentially
Speaker 1: the same pay that men get, you know, the equal
Speaker 1: pay for equal work. That is their argument that they
Speaker 1: just like the men's national team. They travel, they train,
Speaker 1: they play games here, they play games abroad, they go
Speaker 1: to the World Cup. Um they do all the same
Speaker 1: things that the men get, except they're not paid the
Speaker 1: same and they they feel as though they're they're owed.
Speaker 1: That part of that is the success of the two teams.
Speaker 1: Right the last Women's World Cup in the US, not
Speaker 1: only one, but the finals match against Japan, when the
Speaker 1: US just blew the Japanese team out of the water.
Speaker 1: They that was the most watch soccer game ever in
Speaker 1: American in US history, US television history. Um. So, you know,
Speaker 1: for that reason and the fact that the men's team,
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of years later failed to qualify
Speaker 1: for the World Cup. Right, so they missed the most
Speaker 1: important event of the men's soccer schedule. You know that
Speaker 1: there are a number of women's soccer players who are
Speaker 1: you know, stars in and of themselves, and you can't,
Speaker 1: at least right now, can't really say say the same
Speaker 1: about the men's team. Yeah, so why are women making
Speaker 1: those money? The two teams are structured very differently, so
Speaker 1: women are paid more like traditional employees and that they
Speaker 1: have a yearly salary, and they also get some money
Speaker 1: depending on the amount of games they play. The men
Speaker 1: men's national team is essentially paid game by game. So
Speaker 1: if you look at those kind of averaged out over
Speaker 1: a year, a man who plays kind of the full
Speaker 1: slate of games for the US men's national team over
Speaker 1: the course of a year gets paid a significant amount
Speaker 1: more than a woman who gets paid the same get
Speaker 1: plays the same amount of games over that same year.
Speaker 1: I think one argument that might work against the women
Speaker 1: is how much money the teams are bringing in each
Speaker 1: and how many people are watching each of the teams.
Speaker 1: Are the women bring in more money? Are they getting
Speaker 1: more viewers? Do they have that argument to make that
Speaker 1: they're more valuable? So all the international soccer schedule works
Speaker 1: in these four year cycles that culminate in the World Cup.
Speaker 1: The fact that the men didn't the US men didn't
Speaker 1: qualify for the World Cup didn't mean that the US
Speaker 1: Soccer didn't make a tremendous amount of money off the
Speaker 1: men's team, because Fox, which pays for the rights to
Speaker 1: broadcast those in English, they still paid that money. Right
Speaker 1: they expected the US to be there. Uh, certainly executives
Speaker 1: and Fox were a little bummed that they paid a
Speaker 1: lot of money for rights and people weren't able to
Speaker 1: watch the men's team. But it's still a tremendously huge property.
Speaker 1: Right It's still probably one of the biggest events on
Speaker 1: the U s sports calendar every four years when it
Speaker 1: comes up, and for that reason, the men's team brings
Speaker 1: in a lot of money. Now Women's World Cup and
Speaker 1: women's National team games are part of that same package.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of hard to break out. You know, Hey,
Speaker 1: if Fox paid a billion dollars for this right cycle,
Speaker 1: is it? You know, is it six million for the
Speaker 1: men's side, for the women's side, is it? It's hard
Speaker 1: to break those out. But but the bulk of the
Speaker 1: money that US Soccer makes in media revenue is really
Speaker 1: for the men's soccer tournament. But you said that the
Speaker 1: women's World Cup game that the US one two cycles ago,
Speaker 1: was the most watched soccer game in US. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so I think this is exactly where the claim by
Speaker 1: the women starts to get really interesting. Is that on
Speaker 1: the field the team is much more successful than the men,
Speaker 1: and your start to see metrics that show that, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe from from a few different business perspectives, they're they're
Speaker 1: they're they're becoming, they're starting to catch up. From from
Speaker 1: the money standpoint as well. Again, the viewership number is
Speaker 1: less relevant than what you know, US Soccer gets paid
Speaker 1: for the Fox to air that game. It's absolutely no,
Speaker 1: they're certainly related. The people who advocate for the US
Speaker 1: women to be paid more, they accept the fact that
Speaker 1: the men's national team makes more than the women's national team.
Speaker 1: But there's an argument out there to be made that
Speaker 1: if you put more resources behind it, maybe if you
Speaker 1: paid the women more, you know, maybe if that, you know,
Speaker 1: gend up a little more enthusiasm for games, more people
Speaker 1: are going to go to them, more people are gonna
Speaker 1: watch them, and that if US Soccer invested more in
Speaker 1: this women's team. Who says that they couldn't close the
Speaker 1: revenue gap a little bit more as well. Right, And
Speaker 1: this is kind of a chicken and egg argument which
Speaker 1: really exists for women's sports across the world, right because
Speaker 1: the argument always against you know, paying professional women's athletes
Speaker 1: more money than they're making right now is that they're
Speaker 1: not generating as much as the men. But there is
Speaker 1: certainly kind of a strain of this argument that says, hey,
Speaker 1: what happens if we actually invest more upfront in women's sports.
Speaker 1: There's tremendous amount of momentum for it from a corporate standpoint,
Speaker 1: from a viewership standpoint um, and if we maybe if
Speaker 1: we invest them, then this argument of hey, the men's
Speaker 1: team makes so much more than the women's team, maybe
Speaker 1: that starts to narrow or even disappear. But I also
Speaker 1: think we're in this moment where female athletes in the
Speaker 1: US especially are you know, some of the best athletes
Speaker 1: we've seen, their celebrities, their brands, they bring in a
Speaker 1: ton of money. I mean, I'm thinking like Serena Williams
Speaker 1: or someone Biles or some of these soccer players. So
Speaker 1: it does feel like the tides are turning in that
Speaker 1: way at least. Yeah, and I would argue that there
Speaker 1: is almost like a total kind of discrepancy between the
Speaker 1: presence that these women have from like a brand and
Speaker 1: marketing standpoint versus the way that they are kind of
Speaker 1: treated on the court. But I can tell you if
Speaker 1: you listen to a Nike earnings call any time in
Speaker 1: the past couple of months, you know, Mark Parker is
Speaker 1: adamant that they are in a phase right now, a
Speaker 1: turning point in terms of women, in terms of the
Speaker 1: aspirational quality of female athletes out there, in terms of
Speaker 1: the growth in sales that they're seeing for women's apparel
Speaker 1: and for women's shoes, the Women's World Cup, which is
Speaker 1: coming up in in about a month. Uh, they are
Speaker 1: treating very very seriously. If you talk to people in
Speaker 1: that in the apparel space, you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: the corporate side of things that they think that we're
Speaker 1: reaching this kind of major turning point in terms of
Speaker 1: the way that consumers view female athletes. I like, like,
Speaker 1: if you listen to those Nikes earnings calls and yeah,
Speaker 1: don't do that, just take my word for it. He
Speaker 1: talks about women a lot. When you look at the world,
Speaker 1: you know what the population like, where is our place,
Speaker 1: like where's our value? Women deserve equal for equal work.
Speaker 1: Today is the deadline for UK businesses of your gender
Speaker 1: pay gap details show a few sides of progress and
Speaker 1: in some cases the imbalance has got word. Should women
Speaker 1: and men be paid the same for what they do?
Speaker 1: In school? Eight members of the U S women's national
Speaker 1: soccer team filing a gender discrimination lawsuit against the US
Speaker 1: Soccer Federation. We are less promoted than the men's side.
Speaker 1: And when it goes to compensation, we aren't paid a
Speaker 1: dollar to the dollar. Having a bollondor for female and
Speaker 1: the male with a completely natural than to me. Sports
Speaker 1: can influence the imagipation of girls and women in a society.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the paycheck. I'm Rebecca Greenfield. Last week I
Speaker 1: went to London for Bloomberg's Equality Summit. With the Women's
Speaker 1: World Cup coming up in June, I sat down to
Speaker 1: talk women's sports and pay with Kelly Smith. She played
Speaker 1: soccer in the UK and the US for twenty years
Speaker 1: and she holds the record for the most goals scored
Speaker 1: ever by a woman in England. We were joined by
Speaker 1: Kelly Simmons, the head of the Women's Football Association in England,
Speaker 1: and Lena Weldson Gabelle, the managing director for Europe in
Speaker 1: the Middle East for the sports marketing agency Wasserman. We
Speaker 1: start by talking about how the sport has changed for
Speaker 1: women in the last twenty years. So I want to
Speaker 1: start with where we are in the sport today and
Speaker 1: where we've come from. And Kelly, you played for decades
Speaker 1: and I think you can. I want to hear from
Speaker 1: you how far we've come from a player's perspective. What
Speaker 1: did it used to be like and what is it
Speaker 1: like now for women playing in the UK. Like you said,
Speaker 1: I've played pretty much better a football in my whole life.
Speaker 1: Um and forty years old now. I retired a few
Speaker 1: years ago. And when I first started playing the game
Speaker 1: of football, UM, I was happy to pay to play.
Speaker 1: I was playing sub fees, referees, fees paid for the pitches, UM,
Speaker 1: playing for the stadiums that we were playing in. UM.
Speaker 1: It was really at the lowest of the low. When
Speaker 1: I was playing for England at the age of sixteen,
Speaker 1: the pictures that we were training on were very muddy,
Speaker 1: very boggy. Some of the pictures had dog pool on. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, it was the lowest of the low that
Speaker 1: you could be in. Um. Now I look at the
Speaker 1: state of the game twenty odd years ago, having retired,
Speaker 1: I see thousands of people interested in the women's games
Speaker 1: turning up. We recently had an f A Cup Final
Speaker 1: at Wembley Manchester cityb west Ham where forty four thousand
Speaker 1: attended the game. We have the Women's World Cup this year,
Speaker 1: which for me is going to be the most special
Speaker 1: tournament with the most watch viewing figures because the BBC
Speaker 1: are covering all the women's games. When I was playing,
Speaker 1: people used to say to me, why do you only
Speaker 1: playing one game a year? And I'm like, what, we
Speaker 1: have a whole season. But were they only used to
Speaker 1: see one game on TV and that was the f
Speaker 1: A Cup Final. So I think the game is in
Speaker 1: such a big, healthy state. More brands are coming on
Speaker 1: board and more sponsors are interested in the game. So
Speaker 1: it's just in a fantastic place. Yeah. That that's really
Speaker 1: wild to me that just twenty years ago women were
Speaker 1: paying to play something that you know, I think we
Speaker 1: consider a profession now, Kelly, I want to hear about
Speaker 1: the state of player from a league standpoint and where
Speaker 1: we are now and how it's professionalized the Women's super
Speaker 1: League went fully professional this season just finished Arsenal. So
Speaker 1: it's the first time really that I guess girls can
Speaker 1: look up and see role models like Kelly and think wow,
Speaker 1: I can be like the guys. I could be a
Speaker 1: professional football I can see that journey through schools, through clubs,
Speaker 1: through our England youth teams and become a professional footballer.
Speaker 1: Where we are I know the topics, gender pay gap.
Speaker 1: I can't think of an industry that's starker difference if
Speaker 1: I'm honest, because you know, we know here that men's
Speaker 1: football is multi billion industry. It's not just women's football.
Speaker 1: Women's sport has had over the years recent stats. I
Speaker 1: think eis like one of sponsorship deals women's sport here UM,
Speaker 1: but it's shifting massively. So we've gone professional. We've brought
Speaker 1: in barclays On as our targa sponsor for next year
Speaker 1: in the Record deal. It's the biggest investment by brand
Speaker 1: in women's sport in the UK. UM. We're starting to
Speaker 1: see the clubs bringing commercial partners as well to help
Speaker 1: transform the women's game and make it more sustainable. I
Speaker 1: guess we're on a journey. We've moved massively from dog
Speaker 1: Pictures with dog Mark. Yeah, you mentioned the pay gap
Speaker 1: and in the UK, you guys have pay recording which
Speaker 1: we don't have from the US. And I know Bloomberg
Speaker 1: has reported that the biggest gaps were the football leagues.
Speaker 1: But Lena, yeah, I want to you know, you mentioned
Speaker 1: bar glaze and I want to talk about that more.
Speaker 1: But yeah, what is the interest from brands and sponsorships
Speaker 1: and the BIS in this interest now and how has
Speaker 1: that developed recently? Yeah, I mean I've seen such a change.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I'm also American clearly, um, and I
Speaker 1: came over here about ten years ago, and it's gone
Speaker 1: from when I first started this industry as being a
Speaker 1: vanity investment at the time. Uh, And a decision maker
Speaker 1: or someone from a brand would say, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: investing in men's football on this side of the fence,
Speaker 1: but you know what, I have to feel good, I'm
Speaker 1: going to do this as well. And their heart wasn't
Speaker 1: into it. I'm sure you guys saw it. They wouldn't
Speaker 1: put any resources behind it, but they had it in
Speaker 1: their sort of repertoire of things they were doing to
Speaker 1: feel good about themselves, and so they weren't doing anything
Speaker 1: for the game. But what we are saying now is
Speaker 1: a real start and a real investment by brands understanding
Speaker 1: women's sports, understanding how to engage with it, understanding the
Speaker 1: value of it. That's not for everyone, but it's for
Speaker 1: some brands who believe in growing the game and are
Speaker 1: useful to the game and growing the integrity of the game.
Speaker 1: Those are the people we want to see there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, we've seen seven brands coming over
Speaker 1: the last year to invest in women's football across the
Speaker 1: linuses and the women's Super leagualously. Barclays is our record deal.
Speaker 1: I think, Um, first of all, there's a big audience
Speaker 1: for women's football, so I think there's a myth that
Speaker 1: there's not a big audience. Women's World Cup coming up.
Speaker 1: Three quarters a million tickets sold, four million people watching
Speaker 1: the Women's Euros here when it was on Channel four.
Speaker 1: It's on BBC one. Um coming up, you know multimillions
Speaker 1: of people will be following. The liness is. I do
Speaker 1: want to talk about pay and I know you know
Speaker 1: in the US the women's team issuing for equal pay.
Speaker 1: I think the conversation here is very different. We're definitely
Speaker 1: further away from that here, and Kelly, I'm wondering, you know,
Speaker 1: how you think we move that conversation forward or where
Speaker 1: you think we are in the equal pay ef fight. Um,
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to kind of justify our England players,
Speaker 1: you know, earning what the men play because of the
Speaker 1: you know, the TV revenue, the sponsorship that comes through.
Speaker 1: I can totally understand the US lawsuit. They generate generated
Speaker 1: more profits and revenue than the US Soccer Federation. They
Speaker 1: had large audience and played more games than the men.
Speaker 1: The women have also won three World Cups, four Olympics
Speaker 1: and really good and the men's team have only just
Speaker 1: one one knockout round game in the World Cup. This
Speaker 1: generation have failed to qualify for the World Cup last year,
Speaker 1: so I can see where they're coming from. They're in
Speaker 1: a different um place because they've been successful. Our lionesses
Speaker 1: haven't had that success. And right now it's it's for me.
Speaker 1: It's not about they're earning millions, because there's not millions
Speaker 1: to be earned within the game, as I said, because
Speaker 1: of the the money that's not hasn't been in the game.
Speaker 1: They want to grow the game, they want to be
Speaker 1: the faces of women's football. They want to inspire the
Speaker 1: next generation, and I think that's what we want as
Speaker 1: female athletes, to inspire the young girls. They want to
Speaker 1: be role models. So when a five or six year
Speaker 1: old looks up and says, I want to play football,
Speaker 1: then you can see Steph Haughton, the England captain, or
Speaker 1: Frank Kirby and be like, I want to do what
Speaker 1: she's done. I want to do what Kelly Smith did,
Speaker 1: and that is so more important for these generation of players.
Speaker 1: Is not to say that in the future years they
Speaker 1: won't be earning more money. I hope they do. But
Speaker 1: as I said before, we were paying to play. But
Speaker 1: these players now fortunate enough that the f A put
Speaker 1: them on centralized contracts and they earn a salary through
Speaker 1: their club too. For me, the priority is to help
Speaker 1: make the Women's Super League sustainable in its own right,
Speaker 1: so it's not reliant on subsidies. Wanted a better word
Speaker 1: from men's football, because with that comes vulnerability. So we've
Speaker 1: seen clubs where you get a changing owner or men's
Speaker 1: football money's cut there, they're relegated, the women's club goes
Speaker 1: or it goes from being professional back too amateurs. I
Speaker 1: think the most important thing in terms of the journey
Speaker 1: of the women's game here through bar clears, through TV rights,
Speaker 1: through sponsors, through working with the clubs to get them right,
Speaker 1: infrastructure in the clubs and capability to commercialize the game
Speaker 1: and grow the audiences. We can stand on our own
Speaker 1: two feet. That's the next big bit of the journey.
Speaker 1: I think we can get there in sort of five years.
Speaker 1: That's more important really in some ways. And thinking about
Speaker 1: having us as a conversation about our women football is
Speaker 1: going to learn a handful of them and you know
Speaker 1: they're not going to learn what men are. And because
Speaker 1: they're learning three four k a week, um, I think
Speaker 1: the next big step for us is to make it
Speaker 1: sustainable so women's football can can protect itself. Now, there
Speaker 1: has been a lot of headlines about record breaking audiences,
Speaker 1: but on average it's still pretty low. So yeah, maybe Kelly,
Speaker 1: do you what do you think about building the audience?
Speaker 1: How do you think that can happen? From a player's perspective,
Speaker 1: it's about it's about exposure, getting the games, like Kelly said,
Speaker 1: onto TV. It helps when the national team is successful.
Speaker 1: So I know in the Lioness is um had a
Speaker 1: fantastic following, reaching you know, peeking figures. Even though there's
Speaker 1: a massive time and difference from Canada to England this
Speaker 1: June into July in Paris, I'm hoping it's the same
Speaker 1: time difference, so a lot more people, thousands, millions of
Speaker 1: people will be able to watch and really follow the
Speaker 1: Lionesses and and it helps that they do well. You know,
Speaker 1: if they not get out of the group, I think
Speaker 1: that's a devastating um impact that it could have on
Speaker 1: the women's game. I don't see that happening because of
Speaker 1: the quality that they have in the squad and the
Speaker 1: manage that they have. I see them at least at
Speaker 1: least reaching the semifinal um and you know, having that
Speaker 1: exposure put on BBC and you can see the team
Speaker 1: play and perform and the products there now. Probably when
Speaker 1: I was playing, um, you know, eight nine, ten years ago,
Speaker 1: the product probably wasn't there. The quality on the field
Speaker 1: wasn't there. Now it is. You know, you can see
Speaker 1: a high of all performance. Yes, the game isn't as
Speaker 1: fast as the men's game because women are built differently,
Speaker 1: but there's a it's a game. You know, if you
Speaker 1: want to watch football and it's a different game and
Speaker 1: you have like open eyes with it, and I you know,
Speaker 1: say to anybody, give women's football a chance. If you
Speaker 1: watch it at high level, you know England v USA,
Speaker 1: you're gonna enjoy the game because of the quality that
Speaker 1: on the pitch, the technique that the players have, the
Speaker 1: vision um, the endurance. It's a fast, physical game for
Speaker 1: the women's game. And I think once you see that
Speaker 1: then it will win a lot of people over and
Speaker 1: it's about having that exposure. Then Okay, yes, you've seen
Speaker 1: the Lionesses get out of the group, into the semifinals,
Speaker 1: into the final, Wonder World Cup, whatever, But then can
Speaker 1: we get that fan base to come through the gates
Speaker 1: and watch an Arsenal Bourminham a redd in a man
Speaker 1: city at Chelsea and come out on the weekends and
Speaker 1: support the club club club gaming, not just the international level.
Speaker 1: From my opinion, I also think it's appealing beyond women.
Speaker 1: It's appealing to sports fans. I mean that's how tennis
Speaker 1: did it. If you look at the respect for women's tennis,
Speaker 1: it comes from a great game. It comes from people
Speaker 1: being exposed to that. And you know men are the
Speaker 1: first to say that will be when I think we've
Speaker 1: really succeeded in driving the audiences when we're not only
Speaker 1: appealing to families, we're not only appealing, you know, to
Speaker 1: to the women because we're supporting other women were repealing
Speaker 1: to the sports fan. I think the one challenge, which
Speaker 1: is a bit controversial, is that we're going to have
Speaker 1: to fight against a little bit of the me too
Speaker 1: reaction that's going on right now and happen focused on
Speaker 1: focused on the sport and focused on the beauty of
Speaker 1: the sport, and we're not watching women's football, watching beautiful football.
Speaker 1: And I think that's something that's really important is that
Speaker 1: it's not just at a big event or moment. It's
Speaker 1: not like it's not watching it because it's women were
Speaker 1: not investing, because it's women were investing in the sport
Speaker 1: and the participation for both young boys and young girls
Speaker 1: to grow the game. So you've all have kind of
Speaker 1: mentioned this grassroots movement and I've read about this where
Speaker 1: it seems like there is more of an effort to
Speaker 1: have youth sports and appealed to younger women. What is
Speaker 1: the role of that in building at the game. And
Speaker 1: I feel like in the US that's a that is
Speaker 1: part of it. Why there's a success there. I would
Speaker 1: say that one thing that we're behind, and you guys
Speaker 1: are obviously much question to the participation side, but where
Speaker 1: we don't we don't have Title nine over here, and
Speaker 1: I think that really gave a boost to women's sports
Speaker 1: in the US. That's sort of that is for everyone.
Speaker 1: When you have in in university um a number of
Speaker 1: men's sports you have, they have the equivalent number of
Speaker 1: women's sports that are funded by the universities and the
Speaker 1: academic education academic institutions. And I feel that from from
Speaker 1: my experience, there's a lot less emphasis on women being
Speaker 1: active in sports, and it's not as cool as it
Speaker 1: might be in the U S. It's coming and it's
Speaker 1: I think the linuses and women's sports in general are
Speaker 1: getting further, but I think they are behind a little
Speaker 1: bit because there's not that legislation and that emphasis culturally
Speaker 1: on women. Yeah, Kelly, I remember reading and correct me
Speaker 1: if this was wrong, but that you were kicked off
Speaker 1: a co ed team when you were younger. I mean
Speaker 1: that's certainly different than what we what we had. What
Speaker 1: I know growing up in the US, obvious, the only
Speaker 1: girl playing in my town and I joined a local
Speaker 1: boys team, and I had short hair back there, I
Speaker 1: looked like a boy. I was a tomboy, and I
Speaker 1: was scoring six, seven, eight goals a game. And then,
Speaker 1: you know, dribbling around all the other players and scoring
Speaker 1: goals and setting up my teammates, and the word got
Speaker 1: around the talent. There's this fantastic player called Kelly Smith.
Speaker 1: Here's any amazing. And I was getting all the headlines
Speaker 1: in the papers and everything. And then obviously the more
Speaker 1: games that we played, um, it got out the fact
Speaker 1: that I was a girl. And it wasn't the players,
Speaker 1: my teammates or the other boys that was playing against.
Speaker 1: It was the oppositions parents that had a problem with
Speaker 1: the fact. I mean I was seven years old, you know,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to play the game. But it was
Speaker 1: the parents that actually stopped me from playing. They sat
Speaker 1: down and, um, they said, but I couldn't couldn't play anymore.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't feeld a team against the girl. So my
Speaker 1: dad had to sit me down and say, Kelly, you
Speaker 1: can't play football. So I was upset. I said, let's
Speaker 1: find another team. So I went across town. The same
Speaker 1: thing happened, scoring, making a name for myself and then
Speaker 1: the opposition didn't want to play against the girls. So
Speaker 1: a very young age, I faced a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: adversity then and being told I couldn't play and it's
Speaker 1: the wrong sport for me to play, go play netball.
Speaker 1: But I was just so passionate and I knew I
Speaker 1: had a talent and a gift. I wanted to play
Speaker 1: football and no one was going to tell me that
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to play. So actually I found a
Speaker 1: girl's team to play on. We had to travel out
Speaker 1: of town an hour away for training and games, and
Speaker 1: and it progressed from there. So you know, there's been
Speaker 1: setbacks in my career where if I would have listened
Speaker 1: to those those parents and saying that I shouldn't play football,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have reached the heights that I have over
Speaker 1: the years. And you know, played for England. That was
Speaker 1: always a dream of mine. Whenever opportunity is like now
Speaker 1: for young girls who want to play um, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: hugely different now. You know, we've got girls football teams
Speaker 1: right and women's fotball teams right across the country is
Speaker 1: about six thousand girls teams. I think the first count
Speaker 1: when I came in working in development years ago. We
Speaker 1: found about t teams in the in the country. Between
Speaker 1: two and a half three million girls and women play
Speaker 1: some form of football in this country. There's still more
Speaker 1: to do. There's still some schools, remarkably UM that kind
Speaker 1: of segregate their p provision based on gender, which I
Speaker 1: find still incredible in this day and age. Part of
Speaker 1: the Barcley sponsorship is to try and is to work
Speaker 1: with us to try and make sure every girl gets
Speaker 1: a chance to play football in schools because boys play
Speaker 1: football in schools either in the curriculum outside of the curriculum.
Speaker 1: So there's a big focus from US as a governing
Speaker 1: body to get football in schools UM to develop girls
Speaker 1: football in our clubs. Last year we set up eight
Speaker 1: hundred they're called Wildcats clubs across the country that specialize
Speaker 1: in five to eleven year old coaching for girls. We're
Speaker 1: seeing a phenomenal growth. Obviously, the profile of the game's helping.
Speaker 1: I think that the difference one of the big differences
Speaker 1: between US and and America is that we've had a
Speaker 1: lot of cultural barriers over the years to break down
Speaker 1: around what is what is deemed a girl's sport in
Speaker 1: the boys sports. I always used to like my job
Speaker 1: when I was development director for the essay. There's probably
Speaker 1: would it be like to try and work in American
Speaker 1: football promoting women's American football, whereas in your in the
Speaker 1: US soccer is seem very much as a girl's and
Speaker 1: boys sport. We've had to break some of that those
Speaker 1: kind of cultural barriers down. They are breaking down because
Speaker 1: of the visibility profile of the women's game now. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know it's been it's been a slog but
Speaker 1: now this generation have got huge opportunities to play, which
Speaker 1: is fantastic. Yeah, I definitely think that's one of the
Speaker 1: differences that I've noticed where because I think because football
Speaker 1: in the US is not um as popular, it's been
Speaker 1: easier for the women to succeed because they're not fairly
Speaker 1: I think if there were, if this were like American football,
Speaker 1: and the women would have a harder time. But there's
Speaker 1: room for them there and there doesn't seem to be
Speaker 1: room room here. And yeah, you mentioned these stereotapes that
Speaker 1: you have to uh faith against and Kelly, I know
Speaker 1: that your you do commentary, Now, um I do people
Speaker 1: accept you know you as an expert I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: you're an expert, but there is definitely it's still Adam
Speaker 1: sex as m. Yeah, there's certainly now more opportunities for
Speaker 1: myself and some of my former colleagues that have retired
Speaker 1: have come out and put themselves in the limelight to
Speaker 1: comment commentate on men's football. Um. You know, it's been
Speaker 1: a difficult um task for us. We have all the
Speaker 1: experience we've We've played in World Cups, we've played in Olympics,
Speaker 1: European Championships, We've played the highest elitist level, but there
Speaker 1: are still stigmas about women commentating on men's football. It's
Speaker 1: just a small minority of the trolls that you get
Speaker 1: on on Twitter and Facebook. They tell you to get
Speaker 1: back in the kitchen and you should be doing the
Speaker 1: iron in and you know, very disrespectful. And Alex Scott
Speaker 1: recently has come out and said she was major league
Speaker 1: trolled um and gets it on a sexy sexist abuse
Speaker 1: on a daily basis. I've got it a daily basis
Speaker 1: when I work for BT Sports School and you look
Speaker 1: at it and you read it and it does hurt you,
Speaker 1: and I think you have to quite have a quite
Speaker 1: a strong skin just to bat it away, but I
Speaker 1: was quite I was struggling for a little bit, um,
Speaker 1: you know, dealing with those comments. It's sticks in your mind,
Speaker 1: but you have to push you away and realize that
Speaker 1: you are respected within the industry. The pundits that you
Speaker 1: sit along alongside value your opinion and it's good to
Speaker 1: have a little debate. You know, if you disagree with
Speaker 1: me or if I disagree with you, it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that I'm any less than you. Just because I'm a female.
Speaker 1: I've got a strong, valid opinion and I want to
Speaker 1: put that across. So you know, there are opportunities, like
Speaker 1: I said, now for women that are retiring for football
Speaker 1: to come and step into the women's game and the
Speaker 1: men's game just to know that they're trailing as our
Speaker 1: far and I can. I feel like any woman who
Speaker 1: as a public figure has to deal with us, and
Speaker 1: it's like a part of your job and we should
Speaker 1: get paid to deal with that. UM. So I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry that you have to deal with that on a
Speaker 1: regular basis. UM, But as a with the World Cup
Speaker 1: coming up to turn to something more exciting, Um, you
Speaker 1: guys are that experts. So for our new fans who
Speaker 1: you're all going to be watching what what we look
Speaker 1: out for? Who is going to you know, give us
Speaker 1: the insiders take. I thought you can ask us who's
Speaker 1: going to win the I mean, um, as I said,
Speaker 1: England have a very good chance. Um, They've got youth,
Speaker 1: they've got experience, they've got a very young, hungry manager.
Speaker 1: They won the bronze medal in Canada. So the mentality
Speaker 1: now is there within the England squad. Germany are always
Speaker 1: a strong force within football. When I played for England,
Speaker 1: we never beat Germany, which really still grinds on me
Speaker 1: to this day. But the USA number one in the world.
Speaker 1: UM won the last World Cup. It's hard to do
Speaker 1: it back to that. But they've got a fantastic coach
Speaker 1: in jule A List who is more than capable of
Speaker 1: galvanizing that squad. Japan of fantastic side Holland. There's just
Speaker 1: so many now. When I was playing, there's probably two
Speaker 1: or three nations that you knew would win, but now
Speaker 1: I'm saying five, six, seven nations. It's just so good
Speaker 1: to watch because before it's a little bit predictable, but
Speaker 1: now you can look at the the national teams and
Speaker 1: think you can win it. You can win it and
Speaker 1: it makes it exciting for the fans to engage in
Speaker 1: and support the World Cup. Yes, so now you are
Speaker 1: can go to your world Camp partiers and sound you
Speaker 1: know you have the insider's tick. Um I want to
Speaker 1: thank you are so much for coming and talking about
Speaker 1: this and um I re really appreciate it. M h
Speaker 1: m M. Thanks for listening to the Paychecks first ever
Speaker 1: live episode. If you like the show, please head on
Speaker 1: over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to rate
Speaker 1: and review. This show was hosted and reported by me
Speaker 1: Rebecca Greenfield. This episode was edited by Janet Paskin and
Speaker 1: produced by Toker Foreheads. We also had production help from
Speaker 1: Francesca Levi and Jillian Goodman. Our original music is by
Speaker 1: Leo Citron. Francesca Levi is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts m