1 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: For the last twenty five years, the US women's soccer 2 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: team has been a cultural juggernaut. When I was growing up, 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: there was Mia Hamm and Brandy Chastain. Today's sports fans 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: have Alex Morgan and Megan Rappino. But when it comes 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: to the US men's team, I actually can't name a 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: single player. The women's team wins World Cups, the men's 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: team doesn't even qualify. The women's team's popularity, though, doesn't 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: show up in their paychecks. No matter how famous female 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: athletes are in soccer or in anything else, they don't 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: make anywhere close to what men do. The US women's 11 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: soccer team wants to change that. A few months ago, 12 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: they filed a lawsuit against the US Soccer Federation asking 13 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: for equal pay for equal work. Last week I went 14 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: to London to tape a live episode of this show 15 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: all about women's Soccer. We talked about the growing professional 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: league there, the World Cup, and whether female athletes will 17 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: ever make what men do. But before I went, I 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: wanted to understand what's going on here in the US. 19 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: Eman Novi Williams, covers sports for Bloomberg, asked him to 20 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: tell me why female soccer players make so much less 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: than men him, Hi, are you thanks for coming? Thanks 22 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: for having me. So in March, the US women's soccer 23 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: team filed this big lawsuit for a gender discrimination Can 24 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: you tell me about it? They are women's national soccer team, 25 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: for those who don't know, a tremendously successful program on 26 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: the on the global world stage. Is asking for essentially 27 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: the same pay that men get, you know, the equal 28 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: pay for equal work. That is their argument that they 29 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: just like the men's national team. They travel, they train, 30 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: they play games here, they play games abroad, they go 31 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: to the World Cup. Um they do all the same 32 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: things that the men get, except they're not paid the 33 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: same and they they feel as though they're they're owed. 34 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: That part of that is the success of the two teams. 35 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: Right the last Women's World Cup in the US, not 36 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: only one, but the finals match against Japan, when the 37 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: US just blew the Japanese team out of the water. 38 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: They that was the most watch soccer game ever in 39 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: American in US history, US television history. Um. So, you know, 40 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: for that reason and the fact that the men's team, 41 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: you know, a couple of years later failed to qualify 42 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: for the World Cup. Right, so they missed the most 43 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: important event of the men's soccer schedule. You know that 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: there are a number of women's soccer players who are 45 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: you know, stars in and of themselves, and you can't, 46 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: at least right now, can't really say say the same 47 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: about the men's team. Yeah, so why are women making 48 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: those money? The two teams are structured very differently, so 49 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: women are paid more like traditional employees and that they 50 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: have a yearly salary, and they also get some money 51 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: depending on the amount of games they play. The men 52 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: men's national team is essentially paid game by game. So 53 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: if you look at those kind of averaged out over 54 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: a year, a man who plays kind of the full 55 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: slate of games for the US men's national team over 56 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: the course of a year gets paid a significant amount 57 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: more than a woman who gets paid the same get 58 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: plays the same amount of games over that same year. 59 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: I think one argument that might work against the women 60 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: is how much money the teams are bringing in each 61 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: and how many people are watching each of the teams. 62 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: Are the women bring in more money? Are they getting 63 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: more viewers? Do they have that argument to make that 64 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: they're more valuable? So all the international soccer schedule works 65 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: in these four year cycles that culminate in the World Cup. 66 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: The fact that the men didn't the US men didn't 67 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: qualify for the World Cup didn't mean that the US 68 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: Soccer didn't make a tremendous amount of money off the 69 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: men's team, because Fox, which pays for the rights to 70 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: broadcast those in English, they still paid that money. Right 71 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: they expected the US to be there. Uh, certainly executives 72 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: and Fox were a little bummed that they paid a 73 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: lot of money for rights and people weren't able to 74 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: watch the men's team. But it's still a tremendously huge property. 75 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: Right It's still probably one of the biggest events on 76 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: the U s sports calendar every four years when it 77 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: comes up, and for that reason, the men's team brings 78 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: in a lot of money. Now Women's World Cup and 79 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: women's National team games are part of that same package. 80 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: So it's kind of hard to break out. You know, Hey, 81 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: if Fox paid a billion dollars for this right cycle, 82 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: is it? You know, is it six million for the 83 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: men's side, for the women's side, is it? It's hard 84 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: to break those out. But but the bulk of the 85 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: money that US Soccer makes in media revenue is really 86 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: for the men's soccer tournament. But you said that the 87 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: women's World Cup game that the US one two cycles ago, 88 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: was the most watched soccer game in US. Yeah, and 89 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: so I think this is exactly where the claim by 90 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: the women starts to get really interesting. Is that on 91 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: the field the team is much more successful than the men, 92 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: and your start to see metrics that show that, you know, 93 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: maybe from from a few different business perspectives, they're they're 94 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: they're they're becoming, they're starting to catch up. From from 95 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: the money standpoint as well. Again, the viewership number is 96 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: less relevant than what you know, US Soccer gets paid 97 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: for the Fox to air that game. It's absolutely no, 98 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: they're certainly related. The people who advocate for the US 99 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: women to be paid more, they accept the fact that 100 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: the men's national team makes more than the women's national team. 101 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: But there's an argument out there to be made that 102 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: if you put more resources behind it, maybe if you 103 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: paid the women more, you know, maybe if that, you know, 104 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: gend up a little more enthusiasm for games, more people 105 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: are going to go to them, more people are gonna 106 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: watch them, and that if US Soccer invested more in 107 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: this women's team. Who says that they couldn't close the 108 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: revenue gap a little bit more as well. Right, And 109 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: this is kind of a chicken and egg argument which 110 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: really exists for women's sports across the world, right because 111 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: the argument always against you know, paying professional women's athletes 112 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: more money than they're making right now is that they're 113 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: not generating as much as the men. But there is 114 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: certainly kind of a strain of this argument that says, hey, 115 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: what happens if we actually invest more upfront in women's sports. 116 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: There's tremendous amount of momentum for it from a corporate standpoint, 117 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: from a viewership standpoint um, and if we maybe if 118 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: we invest them, then this argument of hey, the men's 119 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: team makes so much more than the women's team, maybe 120 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: that starts to narrow or even disappear. But I also 121 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: think we're in this moment where female athletes in the 122 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: US especially are you know, some of the best athletes 123 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: we've seen, their celebrities, their brands, they bring in a 124 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: ton of money. I mean, I'm thinking like Serena Williams 125 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: or someone Biles or some of these soccer players. So 126 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: it does feel like the tides are turning in that 127 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: way at least. Yeah, and I would argue that there 128 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: is almost like a total kind of discrepancy between the 129 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: presence that these women have from like a brand and 130 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: marketing standpoint versus the way that they are kind of 131 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: treated on the court. But I can tell you if 132 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: you listen to a Nike earnings call any time in 133 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: the past couple of months, you know, Mark Parker is 134 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: adamant that they are in a phase right now, a 135 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: turning point in terms of women, in terms of the 136 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: aspirational quality of female athletes out there, in terms of 137 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: the growth in sales that they're seeing for women's apparel 138 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: and for women's shoes, the Women's World Cup, which is 139 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: coming up in in about a month. Uh, they are 140 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: treating very very seriously. If you talk to people in 141 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: that in the apparel space, you know, a lot of 142 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: the corporate side of things that they think that we're 143 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: reaching this kind of major turning point in terms of 144 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: the way that consumers view female athletes. I like, like, 145 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: if you listen to those Nikes earnings calls and yeah, 146 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: don't do that, just take my word for it. He 147 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: talks about women a lot. When you look at the world, 148 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: you know what the population like, where is our place, 149 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: like where's our value? Women deserve equal for equal work. 150 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: Today is the deadline for UK businesses of your gender 151 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: pay gap details show a few sides of progress and 152 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: in some cases the imbalance has got word. Should women 153 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: and men be paid the same for what they do? 154 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: In school? Eight members of the U S women's national 155 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: soccer team filing a gender discrimination lawsuit against the US 156 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: Soccer Federation. We are less promoted than the men's side. 157 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: And when it goes to compensation, we aren't paid a 158 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: dollar to the dollar. Having a bollondor for female and 159 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: the male with a completely natural than to me. Sports 160 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: can influence the imagipation of girls and women in a society. 161 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the paycheck. I'm Rebecca Greenfield. Last week I 162 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: went to London for Bloomberg's Equality Summit. With the Women's 163 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: World Cup coming up in June, I sat down to 164 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: talk women's sports and pay with Kelly Smith. She played 165 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: soccer in the UK and the US for twenty years 166 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: and she holds the record for the most goals scored 167 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: ever by a woman in England. We were joined by 168 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: Kelly Simmons, the head of the Women's Football Association in England, 169 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 1: and Lena Weldson Gabelle, the managing director for Europe in 170 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: the Middle East for the sports marketing agency Wasserman. We 171 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: start by talking about how the sport has changed for 172 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: women in the last twenty years. So I want to 173 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: start with where we are in the sport today and 174 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: where we've come from. And Kelly, you played for decades 175 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: and I think you can. I want to hear from 176 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: you how far we've come from a player's perspective. What 177 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: did it used to be like and what is it 178 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: like now for women playing in the UK. Like you said, 179 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: I've played pretty much better a football in my whole life. 180 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: Um and forty years old now. I retired a few 181 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: years ago. And when I first started playing the game 182 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: of football, UM, I was happy to pay to play. 183 00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: I was playing sub fees, referees, fees paid for the pitches, UM, 184 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: playing for the stadiums that we were playing in. UM. 185 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: It was really at the lowest of the low. When 186 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: I was playing for England at the age of sixteen, 187 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: the pictures that we were training on were very muddy, 188 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: very boggy. Some of the pictures had dog pool on. UM. 189 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: You know, it was the lowest of the low that 190 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: you could be in. Um. Now I look at the 191 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: state of the game twenty odd years ago, having retired, 192 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: I see thousands of people interested in the women's games 193 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: turning up. We recently had an f A Cup Final 194 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: at Wembley Manchester cityb west Ham where forty four thousand 195 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: attended the game. We have the Women's World Cup this year, 196 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: which for me is going to be the most special 197 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: tournament with the most watch viewing figures because the BBC 198 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: are covering all the women's games. When I was playing, 199 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: people used to say to me, why do you only 200 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 1: playing one game a year? And I'm like, what, we 201 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: have a whole season. But were they only used to 202 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: see one game on TV and that was the f 203 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: A Cup Final. So I think the game is in 204 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: such a big, healthy state. More brands are coming on 205 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: board and more sponsors are interested in the game. So 206 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: it's just in a fantastic place. Yeah. That that's really 207 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: wild to me that just twenty years ago women were 208 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: paying to play something that you know, I think we 209 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: consider a profession now, Kelly, I want to hear about 210 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: the state of player from a league standpoint and where 211 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: we are now and how it's professionalized the Women's super 212 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: League went fully professional this season just finished Arsenal. So 213 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: it's the first time really that I guess girls can 214 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: look up and see role models like Kelly and think wow, 215 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: I can be like the guys. I could be a 216 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: professional football I can see that journey through schools, through clubs, 217 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: through our England youth teams and become a professional footballer. 218 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: Where we are I know the topics, gender pay gap. 219 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: I can't think of an industry that's starker difference if 220 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: I'm honest, because you know, we know here that men's 221 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: football is multi billion industry. It's not just women's football. 222 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: Women's sport has had over the years recent stats. I 223 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: think eis like one of sponsorship deals women's sport here UM, 224 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: but it's shifting massively. So we've gone professional. We've brought 225 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: in barclays On as our targa sponsor for next year 226 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: in the Record deal. It's the biggest investment by brand 227 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: in women's sport in the UK. UM. We're starting to 228 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: see the clubs bringing commercial partners as well to help 229 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 1: transform the women's game and make it more sustainable. I 230 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: guess we're on a journey. We've moved massively from dog 231 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: Pictures with dog Mark. Yeah, you mentioned the pay gap 232 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: and in the UK, you guys have pay recording which 233 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: we don't have from the US. And I know Bloomberg 234 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: has reported that the biggest gaps were the football leagues. 235 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: But Lena, yeah, I want to you know, you mentioned 236 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: bar glaze and I want to talk about that more. 237 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, what is the interest from brands and sponsorships 238 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: and the BIS in this interest now and how has 239 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: that developed recently? Yeah, I mean I've seen such a change. 240 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I I'm also American clearly, um, and I 241 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: came over here about ten years ago, and it's gone 242 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: from when I first started this industry as being a 243 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: vanity investment at the time. Uh, And a decision maker 244 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: or someone from a brand would say, you know, I'm 245 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: investing in men's football on this side of the fence, 246 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: but you know what, I have to feel good, I'm 247 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: going to do this as well. And their heart wasn't 248 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: into it. I'm sure you guys saw it. They wouldn't 249 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: put any resources behind it, but they had it in 250 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: their sort of repertoire of things they were doing to 251 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: feel good about themselves, and so they weren't doing anything 252 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: for the game. But what we are saying now is 253 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: a real start and a real investment by brands understanding 254 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: women's sports, understanding how to engage with it, understanding the 255 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: value of it. That's not for everyone, but it's for 256 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: some brands who believe in growing the game and are 257 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: useful to the game and growing the integrity of the game. 258 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: Those are the people we want to see there. Yeah, 259 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 1: I think. I mean, we've seen seven brands coming over 260 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 1: the last year to invest in women's football across the 261 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: linuses and the women's Super leagualously. Barclays is our record deal. 262 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: I think, Um, first of all, there's a big audience 263 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: for women's football, so I think there's a myth that 264 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: there's not a big audience. Women's World Cup coming up. 265 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: Three quarters a million tickets sold, four million people watching 266 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: the Women's Euros here when it was on Channel four. 267 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: It's on BBC one. Um coming up, you know multimillions 268 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: of people will be following. The liness is. I do 269 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: want to talk about pay and I know you know 270 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: in the US the women's team issuing for equal pay. 271 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: I think the conversation here is very different. We're definitely 272 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: further away from that here, and Kelly, I'm wondering, you know, 273 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: how you think we move that conversation forward or where 274 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: you think we are in the equal pay ef fight. Um, 275 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: it's hard for me to kind of justify our England players, 276 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, earning what the men play because of the 277 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, the TV revenue, the sponsorship that comes through. 278 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: I can totally understand the US lawsuit. They generate generated 279 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: more profits and revenue than the US Soccer Federation. They 280 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: had large audience and played more games than the men. 281 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: The women have also won three World Cups, four Olympics 282 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: and really good and the men's team have only just 283 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: one one knockout round game in the World Cup. This 284 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: generation have failed to qualify for the World Cup last year, 285 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: so I can see where they're coming from. They're in 286 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: a different um place because they've been successful. Our lionesses 287 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: haven't had that success. And right now it's it's for me. 288 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: It's not about they're earning millions, because there's not millions 289 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: to be earned within the game, as I said, because 290 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: of the the money that's not hasn't been in the game. 291 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: They want to grow the game, they want to be 292 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: the faces of women's football. They want to inspire the 293 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: next generation, and I think that's what we want as 294 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: female athletes, to inspire the young girls. They want to 295 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: be role models. So when a five or six year 296 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: old looks up and says, I want to play football, 297 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: then you can see Steph Haughton, the England captain, or 298 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: Frank Kirby and be like, I want to do what 299 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: she's done. I want to do what Kelly Smith did, 300 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: and that is so more important for these generation of players. 301 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: Is not to say that in the future years they 302 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: won't be earning more money. I hope they do. But 303 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: as I said before, we were paying to play. But 304 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: these players now fortunate enough that the f A put 305 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: them on centralized contracts and they earn a salary through 306 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: their club too. For me, the priority is to help 307 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: make the Women's Super League sustainable in its own right, 308 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: so it's not reliant on subsidies. Wanted a better word 309 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: from men's football, because with that comes vulnerability. So we've 310 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: seen clubs where you get a changing owner or men's 311 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: football money's cut there, they're relegated, the women's club goes 312 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: or it goes from being professional back too amateurs. I 313 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: think the most important thing in terms of the journey 314 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: of the women's game here through bar clears, through TV rights, 315 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: through sponsors, through working with the clubs to get them right, 316 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: infrastructure in the clubs and capability to commercialize the game 317 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: and grow the audiences. We can stand on our own 318 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: two feet. That's the next big bit of the journey. 319 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: I think we can get there in sort of five years. 320 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: That's more important really in some ways. And thinking about 321 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: having us as a conversation about our women football is 322 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: going to learn a handful of them and you know 323 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: they're not going to learn what men are. And because 324 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: they're learning three four k a week, um, I think 325 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: the next big step for us is to make it 326 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: sustainable so women's football can can protect itself. Now, there 327 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: has been a lot of headlines about record breaking audiences, 328 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: but on average it's still pretty low. So yeah, maybe Kelly, 329 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: do you what do you think about building the audience? 330 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: How do you think that can happen? From a player's perspective, 331 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: it's about it's about exposure, getting the games, like Kelly said, 332 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: onto TV. It helps when the national team is successful. 333 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,239 Speaker 1: So I know in the Lioness is um had a 334 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: fantastic following, reaching you know, peeking figures. Even though there's 335 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: a massive time and difference from Canada to England this 336 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: June into July in Paris, I'm hoping it's the same 337 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: time difference, so a lot more people, thousands, millions of 338 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: people will be able to watch and really follow the 339 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: Lionesses and and it helps that they do well. You know, 340 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: if they not get out of the group, I think 341 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: that's a devastating um impact that it could have on 342 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: the women's game. I don't see that happening because of 343 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: the quality that they have in the squad and the 344 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,719 Speaker 1: manage that they have. I see them at least at 345 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: least reaching the semifinal um and you know, having that 346 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: exposure put on BBC and you can see the team 347 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: play and perform and the products there now. Probably when 348 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: I was playing, um, you know, eight nine, ten years ago, 349 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: the product probably wasn't there. The quality on the field 350 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: wasn't there. Now it is. You know, you can see 351 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: a high of all performance. Yes, the game isn't as 352 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: fast as the men's game because women are built differently, 353 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: but there's a it's a game. You know, if you 354 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: want to watch football and it's a different game and 355 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: you have like open eyes with it, and I you know, 356 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: say to anybody, give women's football a chance. If you 357 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: watch it at high level, you know England v USA, 358 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: you're gonna enjoy the game because of the quality that 359 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: on the pitch, the technique that the players have, the 360 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: vision um, the endurance. It's a fast, physical game for 361 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: the women's game. And I think once you see that 362 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: then it will win a lot of people over and 363 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: it's about having that exposure. Then Okay, yes, you've seen 364 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: the Lionesses get out of the group, into the semifinals, 365 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: into the final, Wonder World Cup, whatever, But then can 366 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: we get that fan base to come through the gates 367 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: and watch an Arsenal Bourminham a redd in a man 368 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: city at Chelsea and come out on the weekends and 369 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: support the club club club gaming, not just the international level. 370 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: From my opinion, I also think it's appealing beyond women. 371 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: It's appealing to sports fans. I mean that's how tennis 372 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: did it. If you look at the respect for women's tennis, 373 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: it comes from a great game. It comes from people 374 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: being exposed to that. And you know men are the 375 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: first to say that will be when I think we've 376 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: really succeeded in driving the audiences when we're not only 377 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: appealing to families, we're not only appealing, you know, to 378 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: to the women because we're supporting other women were repealing 379 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: to the sports fan. I think the one challenge, which 380 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: is a bit controversial, is that we're going to have 381 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: to fight against a little bit of the me too 382 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: reaction that's going on right now and happen focused on 383 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: focused on the sport and focused on the beauty of 384 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: the sport, and we're not watching women's football, watching beautiful football. 385 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: And I think that's something that's really important is that 386 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: it's not just at a big event or moment. It's 387 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,719 Speaker 1: not like it's not watching it because it's women were 388 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: not investing, because it's women were investing in the sport 389 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: and the participation for both young boys and young girls 390 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: to grow the game. So you've all have kind of 391 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: mentioned this grassroots movement and I've read about this where 392 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 1: it seems like there is more of an effort to 393 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: have youth sports and appealed to younger women. What is 394 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: the role of that in building at the game. And 395 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: I feel like in the US that's a that is 396 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: part of it. Why there's a success there. I would 397 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: say that one thing that we're behind, and you guys 398 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: are obviously much question to the participation side, but where 399 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: we don't we don't have Title nine over here, and 400 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: I think that really gave a boost to women's sports 401 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: in the US. That's sort of that is for everyone. 402 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: When you have in in university um a number of 403 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: men's sports you have, they have the equivalent number of 404 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: women's sports that are funded by the universities and the 405 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: academic education academic institutions. And I feel that from from 406 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: my experience, there's a lot less emphasis on women being 407 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: active in sports, and it's not as cool as it 408 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: might be in the U S. It's coming and it's 409 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: I think the linuses and women's sports in general are 410 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: getting further, but I think they are behind a little 411 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: bit because there's not that legislation and that emphasis culturally 412 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: on women. Yeah, Kelly, I remember reading and correct me 413 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: if this was wrong, but that you were kicked off 414 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: a co ed team when you were younger. I mean 415 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: that's certainly different than what we what we had. What 416 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: I know growing up in the US, obvious, the only 417 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: girl playing in my town and I joined a local 418 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: boys team, and I had short hair back there, I 419 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: looked like a boy. I was a tomboy, and I 420 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: was scoring six, seven, eight goals a game. And then, 421 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: you know, dribbling around all the other players and scoring 422 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: goals and setting up my teammates, and the word got 423 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: around the talent. There's this fantastic player called Kelly Smith. 424 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: Here's any amazing. And I was getting all the headlines 425 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: in the papers and everything. And then obviously the more 426 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: games that we played, um, it got out the fact 427 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: that I was a girl. And it wasn't the players, 428 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: my teammates or the other boys that was playing against. 429 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: It was the oppositions parents that had a problem with 430 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: the fact. I mean I was seven years old, you know, 431 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: I just wanted to play the game. But it was 432 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: the parents that actually stopped me from playing. They sat 433 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: down and, um, they said, but I couldn't couldn't play anymore. 434 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: I wouldn't feeld a team against the girl. So my 435 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: dad had to sit me down and say, Kelly, you 436 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: can't play football. So I was upset. I said, let's 437 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: find another team. So I went across town. The same 438 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: thing happened, scoring, making a name for myself and then 439 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: the opposition didn't want to play against the girls. So 440 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: a very young age, I faced a lot of you know, 441 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: adversity then and being told I couldn't play and it's 442 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: the wrong sport for me to play, go play netball. 443 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: But I was just so passionate and I knew I 444 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: had a talent and a gift. I wanted to play 445 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: football and no one was going to tell me that 446 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: I wasn't going to play. So actually I found a 447 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: girl's team to play on. We had to travel out 448 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: of town an hour away for training and games, and 449 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: and it progressed from there. So you know, there's been 450 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: setbacks in my career where if I would have listened 451 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: to those those parents and saying that I shouldn't play football, 452 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have reached the heights that I have over 453 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: the years. And you know, played for England. That was 454 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: always a dream of mine. Whenever opportunity is like now 455 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: for young girls who want to play um, yeah, it's 456 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: hugely different now. You know, we've got girls football teams 457 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: right and women's fotball teams right across the country is 458 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: about six thousand girls teams. I think the first count 459 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: when I came in working in development years ago. We 460 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: found about t teams in the in the country. Between 461 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: two and a half three million girls and women play 462 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: some form of football in this country. There's still more 463 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: to do. There's still some schools, remarkably UM that kind 464 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: of segregate their p provision based on gender, which I 465 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: find still incredible in this day and age. Part of 466 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: the Barcley sponsorship is to try and is to work 467 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: with us to try and make sure every girl gets 468 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: a chance to play football in schools because boys play 469 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: football in schools either in the curriculum outside of the curriculum. 470 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: So there's a big focus from US as a governing 471 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: body to get football in schools UM to develop girls 472 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: football in our clubs. Last year we set up eight 473 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: hundred they're called Wildcats clubs across the country that specialize 474 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: in five to eleven year old coaching for girls. We're 475 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: seeing a phenomenal growth. Obviously, the profile of the game's helping. 476 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: I think that the difference one of the big differences 477 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: between US and and America is that we've had a 478 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: lot of cultural barriers over the years to break down 479 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: around what is what is deemed a girl's sport in 480 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: the boys sports. I always used to like my job 481 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: when I was development director for the essay. There's probably 482 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: would it be like to try and work in American 483 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: football promoting women's American football, whereas in your in the 484 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: US soccer is seem very much as a girl's and 485 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: boys sport. We've had to break some of that those 486 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: kind of cultural barriers down. They are breaking down because 487 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: of the visibility profile of the women's game now. Um, 488 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: but you know it's been it's been a slog but 489 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: now this generation have got huge opportunities to play, which 490 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: is fantastic. Yeah, I definitely think that's one of the 491 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: differences that I've noticed where because I think because football 492 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: in the US is not um as popular, it's been 493 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: easier for the women to succeed because they're not fairly 494 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: I think if there were, if this were like American football, 495 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: and the women would have a harder time. But there's 496 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: room for them there and there doesn't seem to be 497 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: room room here. And yeah, you mentioned these stereotapes that 498 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: you have to uh faith against and Kelly, I know 499 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: that your you do commentary, Now, um I do people 500 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: accept you know you as an expert I mean, obviously 501 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: you're an expert, but there is definitely it's still Adam 502 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: sex as m. Yeah, there's certainly now more opportunities for 503 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: myself and some of my former colleagues that have retired 504 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: have come out and put themselves in the limelight to 505 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: comment commentate on men's football. Um. You know, it's been 506 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: a difficult um task for us. We have all the 507 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: experience we've We've played in World Cups, we've played in Olympics, 508 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: European Championships, We've played the highest elitist level, but there 509 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: are still stigmas about women commentating on men's football. It's 510 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: just a small minority of the trolls that you get 511 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,239 Speaker 1: on on Twitter and Facebook. They tell you to get 512 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: back in the kitchen and you should be doing the 513 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: iron in and you know, very disrespectful. And Alex Scott 514 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: recently has come out and said she was major league 515 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: trolled um and gets it on a sexy sexist abuse 516 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: on a daily basis. I've got it a daily basis 517 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: when I work for BT Sports School and you look 518 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: at it and you read it and it does hurt you, 519 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: and I think you have to quite have a quite 520 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: a strong skin just to bat it away, but I 521 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,239 Speaker 1: was quite I was struggling for a little bit, um, 522 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, dealing with those comments. It's sticks in your mind, 523 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: but you have to push you away and realize that 524 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: you are respected within the industry. The pundits that you 525 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: sit along alongside value your opinion and it's good to 526 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: have a little debate. You know, if you disagree with 527 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,239 Speaker 1: me or if I disagree with you, it doesn't mean 528 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: that I'm any less than you. Just because I'm a female. 529 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: I've got a strong, valid opinion and I want to 530 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: put that across. So you know, there are opportunities, like 531 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: I said, now for women that are retiring for football 532 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: to come and step into the women's game and the 533 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: men's game just to know that they're trailing as our 534 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: far and I can. I feel like any woman who 535 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: as a public figure has to deal with us, and 536 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: it's like a part of your job and we should 537 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: get paid to deal with that. UM. So I'm so 538 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: sorry that you have to deal with that on a 539 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: regular basis. UM, But as a with the World Cup 540 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: coming up to turn to something more exciting, Um, you 541 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: guys are that experts. So for our new fans who 542 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 1: you're all going to be watching what what we look 543 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: out for? Who is going to you know, give us 544 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: the insiders take. I thought you can ask us who's 545 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: going to win the I mean, um, as I said, 546 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: England have a very good chance. Um, They've got youth, 547 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: they've got experience, they've got a very young, hungry manager. 548 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: They won the bronze medal in Canada. So the mentality 549 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: now is there within the England squad. Germany are always 550 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: a strong force within football. When I played for England, 551 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: we never beat Germany, which really still grinds on me 552 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: to this day. But the USA number one in the world. 553 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: UM won the last World Cup. It's hard to do 554 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: it back to that. But they've got a fantastic coach 555 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: in jule A List who is more than capable of 556 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: galvanizing that squad. Japan of fantastic side Holland. There's just 557 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: so many now. When I was playing, there's probably two 558 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: or three nations that you knew would win, but now 559 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: I'm saying five, six, seven nations. It's just so good 560 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: to watch because before it's a little bit predictable, but 561 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: now you can look at the the national teams and 562 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: think you can win it. You can win it and 563 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: it makes it exciting for the fans to engage in 564 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: and support the World Cup. Yes, so now you are 565 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: can go to your world Camp partiers and sound you 566 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: know you have the insider's tick. Um I want to 567 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: thank you are so much for coming and talking about 568 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: this and um I re really appreciate it. M h 569 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: m M. Thanks for listening to the Paychecks first ever 570 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: live episode. If you like the show, please head on 571 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to rate 572 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: and review. This show was hosted and reported by me 573 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: Rebecca Greenfield. This episode was edited by Janet Paskin and 574 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,959 Speaker 1: produced by Toker Foreheads. We also had production help from 575 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: Francesca Levi and Jillian Goodman. Our original music is by 576 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: Leo Citron. Francesca Levi is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts m