1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: From School of Humans and iHeart podcasts This is Cold 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: Case Files Miami. I'm your host Heendrique Santos. In the 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: summer of two thousand, the bodies of two women, thirty 4 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: five year old Kimberly Dietz Livesey and twenty one year 5 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: old Sia DMAs were found brutally murdered. Their bodies had 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: been stuffed inside luggage and abandoned in Browd County, just 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: north of Miami Dade County. The police investigated the murders 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: and collected evidence, but unfortunately they had no suspects in 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: the case. The following year, in August two thousand and one, 10 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: another woman, twenty four year old Jessica Good, was found 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: dead in Biscayne Bay in Miami. In Jessica's case, police 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: had a person of interest that they were not able 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: to locate him, and there were still no leads on 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: who had murdered Kimberly and Sia. Years passed and it 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: began to seem like the familes of the three women 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: would never learn who had done this to their loved ones. However, 17 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: in August twenty twenty one, two decades after the murders, 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: Miami PDE and the Broward Sheriff's Office made a remarkable 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: announcement they had officially identified the person who'd killed Kimberly Dietz, 20 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 1: Livesey Ci Ademus, and Jessica Good. It was a Brazilian 21 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: man named Roberto Wagner Fernandes. Fernandez had been a licensed 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: pilot in Brazil who'd moved to Miami in the late 23 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. In the summer of two thousand and one, 24 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: he was working as a local tour guide. He'd fled 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: the US shortly after Jessica's murder. It took decades of 26 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: police work across multiple departments and international boarders to solve 27 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: these murders. To walk us through how it happened, we're 28 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: talking to Detective Zachary Scott from the Broward Sheriff's Office. 29 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: Detective Scott has been on the force since two thousand. 30 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, after seven years on the homicide unit, 31 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: he joined his department's newly minted cold case unit. Detective Scott, 32 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: thank you for speaking to us today. First, let's start 33 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: with when did you join the Roward County Sheriff's Office. 34 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 2: I joined BSO in March of two thousand. 35 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: I'm curious what do you like most about your work 36 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: with cold cases. 37 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: I think it's just you know, you get to when 38 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: you go back through some of these cases and it's 39 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: kind of like a time capsule sometimes, and you see 40 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: how hard the original viscators worked to get to the 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: point where you can identify a suspect and to be 42 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: able to kind of finish that job, to me is 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: very rewarding, and most importantly for the surviving families, because 44 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: you know, the longer case sits open and unsolved, you know, 45 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: they start to lose hope. So if we can find 46 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: some way to give them that hope back and know 47 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: that people will be held accountable, I enjoy. 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: That, you know, and in this podcast we enjoy hearing 49 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 1: from those behind the badge that really put so much 50 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: effort into trying to solve these these cases. And the 51 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: frustration right to maybe having a hunch or having some 52 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 1: ideas but not having the concrete evidence. How much does 53 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: that weigh on you? Sometimes a lot? 54 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: I mean it's huge in every I think if you've 55 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: ever worked, you know, investigations, especially with homicides, when you 56 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 2: can't get that suspect named, or you can't figure out 57 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: you know, or you just hit a wall and there's 58 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 2: no leads. It's like having, you know, that an itch 59 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: in the back that you just can't reach, but it 60 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: never goes away. And that's, you know, from a cold 61 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: case perspective, that's something we run into because you know, 62 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: and I'm guilty of it. I didn't want to give 63 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: up my cases to anybody else if they were open 64 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: and unsolved. I wanted to keep them. But sometimes you 65 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: have to recognize that. Look, if people could dedicate more time, 66 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: or you just need a different set of eyes to 67 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: look at a case, it's probably your best bet. 68 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: Can you take us back? Then? Two women were found 69 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: brutally murdered and dismembered in the summer of two thousand 70 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: and you walk us through the initial investigation. 71 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: Sure, And actually I had just gotten out of the 72 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: academy when the first case happened, which was Kim's case, 73 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: and that was in June of two thousand. A person 74 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 2: driving by saw a suitcase on the side of a 75 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: pretty good sized roadway, and when they checked the suitcase 76 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: to see if there's anything evalue in it or anything 77 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 2: to get back to the original owner, they discovered the 78 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 2: body of a deceased female inside she was not dismembered, 79 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: but she was definitely manipulated physically and crushed to the 80 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 2: point where she would fit in the suitcase. So it 81 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: was definitely a very violent, brutal homicide. And the suitcase 82 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 2: was not like thrown into the woods. This was right 83 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: next to the roadway, so it was not something that 84 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: was trying to be hidden, which kind of gives you 85 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: a whole other insight to the mentality behind this crime. 86 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: In CIA's case, which was in August of the same year, 87 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: so just over a month and a half later, similarly, 88 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: a Duffel bag was seen on the side of the 89 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: road by someone walking their dog. There had been a 90 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: decent amount of media coverage on the first case, so 91 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: any suitcase on the side of the road, people were 92 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: calling nine one one, and in this case, that call 93 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 2: got a deputy to respond, and when they investigated the 94 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 2: Duffel bag they also found the body of it seized 95 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 2: female inside, and that was Ceadmus. The difference in the 96 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: condition between the two scenes was that Ceo was also 97 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 2: wrapped in plastic and then put in the bag, so 98 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: slightly different, But the fact that there were two bags 99 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: deceased females side of the road in the same county. 100 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 2: You know, we have to start thinking about are these connected, 101 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: And that's kind of where the investigation started. 102 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: So besides obviously their bodies and the briefcase and the 103 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: Duffel bag, what other evidence was collected? 104 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: Obviously anything around those suitcases, any you know what you 105 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: would probably just look at and disregard as litter or 106 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: things along those lines, we have to consider that that 107 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 2: might be you know, valuable evidence. So what we call 108 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: trace evidence, which is anything that's you know, small around 109 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: the bag that whoever dropped that bag there would have 110 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 2: to either cross through or maybe dis you know, maybe 111 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 2: they're the ones who dropped it. We're going to collect 112 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 2: for evidence. In cus case, that plastic wrap turned out 113 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 2: to be a very valuable piece of evidence for us 114 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 2: because plastic holds on to a lot more than fabric 115 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 2: as far as fingerprints are concerned. And actually in her 116 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 2: case they were able to get a fingerprint from the 117 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 2: inside of that plastic wrapping. On both cases, they were 118 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 2: able to obtain a DNA profile off of the handle 119 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: of the suitcase. 120 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: Could you walk us through the theory of collecting evidence 121 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: in the process, Like when the CSI team shows up 122 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: and collecting evidence. Is it always understood how it might 123 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: be useful anything that because you mentioned the area, anything 124 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: that's around. 125 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think everybody usually has the same 126 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: mentality when they go out there. As far as you know, 127 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: we don't know what's going to be valuable. You know, 128 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 2: at this point, as we start digging into the investigations, 129 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 2: as we start getting circumstances more clear, we dig into 130 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: the backgrounds of our victims, and especially once we start 131 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: talking about potential suspects. These items that we thought maybe 132 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: didn't mean anything, could mean everything. So you have to 133 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: kind of approach her from that standpoint. We collected all 134 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: and then later on if it doesn't, you know, it 135 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: doesn't turn out to be of significant value, Okay, then 136 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: we get rid of it. Then, but we only get 137 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: one shot at that crime scene in the first time. 138 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 2: I think over the years it's changed because you also 139 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: see the potential of where science can go with evidence, 140 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: and you have to keep that in mind as well. Okay, 141 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: we collect this evidence, we analyze it. Nothing of value 142 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: came out of it, well, nothing came out of it 143 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 2: now with the technology we have now. But if you 144 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: talk to guys in the seventies and try to explain 145 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: what DNA was, they'd look at you like you were crazy. 146 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: If you talk to guys like me in the two 147 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: thousands and you start talking about what's being done now 148 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 2: with genetic genealogy, we'd look at you like you're crazy. 149 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: So it's amazing how quickly these developments can happen. So 150 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 2: now for me, when I talk about collecting evidence, you 151 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: also have to look at it from the standpoint of 152 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: down the road a guy like me and cold case 153 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: gets your case file. You know, have we preserved the 154 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: evidence to the best of our ability for new science 155 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 2: that hasn't even been invented yet. 156 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: And that speaks to the importance of documentation, right knowing 157 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: that you may have to hand this case off to 158 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: somebody else, and who knows when or how many years 159 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: or time we might go by before somebody you know, 160 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: picks that up. And the truth is maybe you're not around. 161 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: So you've got to make sure you document everything to 162 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: leave the right evidence there and in place so that 163 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: somebody else can pick up on. 164 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent, I mean, And that's and it's 165 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: a tough thing to think about when you're pouring so 166 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 2: much of yourself into these cases. You take a personal investment. 167 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: You never want to think, Okay, I'm going to hand 168 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: this off, or this case is going to go cult. 169 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 2: No one who goes to a scene wants to ever 170 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 2: think that this is going to be one of those cases. 171 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 2: So the unfortunate reality is is that there are always 172 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: going to be cases that are or that may stay 173 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 2: open for some time, and you do have to consider 174 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: the fact that maybe you won't be around to see 175 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: it through, and that's you know, that's a that's a 176 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: tough pill swallow as well. But you're right, I think 177 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 2: that that documentation is crucial. I know when I pull 178 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: a case, you know from the vault on our cold cases, 179 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 2: you know, it can make all the difference in the world. 180 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: How well they documented it, how well they preserved it, 181 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 2: you know, how much detailed information they kept. 182 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: Going back to the two cases that we're talking about today, 183 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: was there any DNA evidence found? Did you receive any leads? 184 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: So with Kim's case, they were able to find a 185 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 2: single DNA profile, mail in origin and single source from 186 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: the handle of the suitcase. Now that's great, but at 187 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 2: the time you have to also look at it in 188 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: the context this is a suitcase on the side of 189 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: the road and the DNA is on the outside, so 190 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 2: could it be incidental contact that anybody had with that suitcase. 191 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 2: So part of that evidence collection is also collecting DNA 192 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 2: samples from people who you know, have made contact the 193 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 2: person who called it in. We've got to make sure 194 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 2: we have their standard so that we can rule them 195 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 2: out as being the contributor. If paramedics were involved, other 196 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: responding officers. All that we have to obtain, so we 197 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 2: make sure that whatever profile we have left on that 198 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 2: handle wasn't somebody who we can explain. But even then, 199 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: it is a suitcase, you know, and suitcases get handled. 200 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 2: Now further down the line and the investigation in CIA's case, 201 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 2: they were also able to extract a single source mail 202 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: profile from the handle of the Duffel bag, and that 203 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: one took a little longer to get, but when they 204 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:56,479 Speaker 2: analyzed that profile, it was identical to the one on cans. 205 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: So now that profile suddenly has a lot more value 206 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: to it. So at the early onset of both those cases, 207 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 2: you had a fingerprint on CS case and you had 208 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: the sand DNA profile on both cases. Now bigger than 209 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: that in the suitcase that Kim was in. They did 210 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: find a ticket stub from a flight and a passenger's 211 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: name on it. Now, the problem was it was only 212 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 2: a partial stub. They knew it was a London to 213 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 2: Miami flight, but they didn't know what year because that 214 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 2: part was cut off. And the other thing that you know, 215 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 2: as investigators in cold case we look at was we 216 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 2: take it for granted is that okay, well, surely travel 217 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 2: records we can look this up. Well, at the time, 218 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 2: this is prior to nine to eleven, and the records 219 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 2: were a lot sketchier and not real consistent, so they 220 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: weren't able to immediately say, okay, when did this person 221 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: take this flight, so we can at least get a 222 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 2: time frame on this ticket stamp and where are they 223 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 2: because obviously, if you have a name inside of a 224 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: suitcase next to a victim, that's a pretty valuable clue. 225 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: So that was another lead that was that was being followed, 226 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 2: but it was going to take extensive record checking before 227 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 2: they could finally figure it out. 228 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: So you have the briefcase with one body, you have 229 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: a duffel bag duffle bag with another body, and you 230 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: have DNA matching on both. Yes, that is the moment 231 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: that you then determine that what you have as a 232 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: serial killer on your hands. 233 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely we have a link, you know. Now, obviously 234 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 2: there's always precautions. You don't want to necessarily say, hey, 235 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 2: these cases are connected because you may get tunnel vision. 236 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: But that was a pretty clear indicator that we're dealing 237 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: with at least one subject in both cases. Now, then 238 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: you have to caution yourself, but are we dealing with 239 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 2: just one subject? 240 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: You know? 241 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: Could this be something where it's two people working together, 242 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: you know, So you don't want to isolate just one 243 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 2: theory until you can kind of rule things out based 244 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: on where the evidence takes You. 245 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: Take us back and you mentioned how technology has changed 246 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: through the time and science to help solve a lot 247 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: of these cases. What was DNA testing like back in 248 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: two thousand and one comparing to how it is now? 249 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: What's different? What's changed? 250 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 2: Probably the most significant change from my standpoints investigators, it's 251 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: a lot more sensitive now, so it can detect smaller 252 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: and smaller amounts and give you more of a full profile. 253 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 2: So that's been a huge improvement over the years, and 254 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: there's been different ways that they can analyze the DNA. 255 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: You know, if you only have a partial profile, you know, 256 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: you don't get a full profile that gives you a 257 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: full snapshot of a person's identity. But they can do 258 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 2: different things now to kind of give you more information 259 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: and then also do a comparison to a direct profile 260 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 2: so that you can still identify someone with some pretty 261 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: impressive numbers as opposed to just you know, maybe it's them. 262 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: In two thousand and one, the body of Jessica Good 263 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: was found in Biscayne Bay here in Miami, and police 264 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: did have a suspect, though he'd fled to Brazil before 265 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: he could be questioned or arrested. Was there a belief 266 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: that he may have been connected to the two women 267 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: Kimberlyancia whose bodies were found in Broward County. 268 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 2: Not initially for a couple of reasons. So after the 269 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: two cases in Brower were determined to be linked, we 270 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 2: formed a task force with the Sheriff's Office, FBI, other 271 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: municipalities in Brower County. And part of what that task 272 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: force would do is if other cases were reported that 273 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: had anything similar in circumstance. Now, in this case, the 274 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: reason that they were made aware of Jessica's case is 275 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: because both victims in Broward were sex workers. They were 276 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: known to work at Biscaying Boulevard in Day County, even 277 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 2: though both of them had residences in Broward. Jessica was 278 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 2: also a sex worker, So any murders of people in 279 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 2: that high risk lifestyle, they were going out to, you know, 280 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: if anything, just to get a view of the scene, 281 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 2: talk to the investigator, see if there was anything that 282 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: correlated with their cases. So they did go initially to 283 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: Jessica's call, and she was not in a bag, she 284 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: was not in a suitcase. She was actually in a 285 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 2: body of water. The injury pattern was different, so initially 286 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 2: they didn't think it was going to be connected. They 287 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 2: just felt like, Okay, well it is a high rist 288 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: lifestyle and unfortunately we see a lot of these type 289 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: of cases. 290 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: You said the body was found in the water. I'm 291 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: curious does water ruin evidence, specifically when it comes to 292 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: DNA and her fingerprints. 293 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 2: It can. Obviously, the longer a body is in water, 294 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 2: it's going to break down the evidence physically, more especially saltwater. 295 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: But depending how long the victim's been in that body 296 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: of wire will determine how much it damages that DNA. 297 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: But again with the improvements in the science, we see 298 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: more and more success with them able to get information 299 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: from that DNA than we used to, certainly more than 300 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: what they had back in two. 301 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: Thousand and one. I'm here with Detective Zachary Scott for 302 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: the Broward Sheriffs Cold Case Unit. He's discussing the cases 303 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: of Kimberly Deets livesey see A Demus, and Jessica Good, 304 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: three South Florida women who were brutally murdered in two 305 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: thousand and two thousand and one. So when did Kimberly 306 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: and see his cases go cold? 307 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 2: I would say probably in the early two thousands. The 308 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 2: suspects DNA profile and fingerprint were put into the national databases. 309 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 2: So if anybody was arrested, or any other crimes were 310 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 2: committed and that DNA or that fingerprint was found and submitted, 311 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 2: everybody would know, all the bells and whistles would go off. 312 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: And years went by and nothing changed. None of those 313 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 2: alarms went off, no evidence was submitted that matched. So 314 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 2: it was one of those things that they couldn't sustain 315 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 2: a task force for much longer than that. No leads 316 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: were coming in that were determined to be credible. So 317 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: I would say probably in the early two thousands, you 318 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: could say it was called the task force was dissolved, 319 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: but the case was still maintained and kept open. 320 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: Let's fast forward to twenty eleven. It was a huge 321 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: break in the case, right, Can you walk us through 322 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: what happened? Sure? 323 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 2: So, my understanding is that the City of Miami received 324 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 2: a grant where they could do more advanced testings on 325 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 2: evidence for their open homicides, and Jessica's case was one 326 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 2: of those cases. When that evidence was processed, they were 327 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: able to get a complete profile of DNA from Jessica. 328 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,239 Speaker 2: And when that profile was uploaded into the database, it 329 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 2: connected the cases. That was the alarms, the bells and 330 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 2: whistles we were hoping to get. So now you had 331 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 2: Jessica's case, Kim's case, and CU's case all linked by 332 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 2: the same male DNA profile. The advantage that we had 333 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 2: was that City of Miami had already come up with 334 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 2: a very strong candidate for who that DNA belonged to, 335 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 2: and that was Roberto Fernandez. 336 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: Was this the first time it was believed Fernandez was 337 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: connected to all three cases? Yes, had your department suspected 338 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: him before. 339 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: No, he was never on the radar. We'd never heard 340 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 2: of him. He had no real records in Brara County 341 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 2: that he would have come up on. The only thing 342 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 2: that I identified him initially was that DNA and then 343 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 2: later on through that single fingerprint. 344 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: So when did the Browie County Sheriff's Office become involved 345 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: in the investigation and the search for Fernandez. 346 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 2: So in twenty eleven when that profile hit, obviously everybody 347 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 2: needed to sit down at the table right away, and 348 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 2: that's where they kind of learned that there were changes 349 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 2: in Jessica's investigation that happened after the task force guys 350 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 2: had left, where basically her boyfriend had come forward and 351 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 2: had additional information that he had spoken to Jessica just 352 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 2: prior to her death and that Jessica had given him 353 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: information about who she was going to be with, and 354 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 2: that allowed them to identify Roberto as a suspect. 355 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: As you explained, all three of these women all struggled 356 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: with substance abuse and at times engaged in sex work. 357 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: Can you talk about how that connected to this case? 358 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 2: Yes, Well, obviously you know with Sia and Kim, with 359 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 2: our cases, we knew that they both had had histories 360 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 2: of arrests in prostitutions in the same area in Daye 361 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 2: County on Biscayne Boulevard, and then later once Jessica's case 362 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: was linked through physical evidence, she was also known to 363 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: frequent that same area for the same type of work. 364 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: So when you have that type of location connection as well, 365 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: now you have the circumstantial meeting the physical evidence wise, 366 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: and it just allows you to kind of hone in 367 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 2: more on a suspect. Now, like I said, we were 368 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 2: fortunate that city of Miami already had a great lead 369 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 2: from that interview that they conducted. So now that we 370 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 2: knew at least a potential suspect, and you can start 371 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 2: delving in his background and you start to realize that 372 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 2: he's got a history of frequenting those type of sex workers, 373 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: so you can kind of see where they cross paths. 374 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: How did you make that link to know that Fernandez 375 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: had reached out to these type of women and they 376 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: had a relationship with sex workers. 377 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 2: It's my understanding with Miami's case, when they had they 378 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 2: were given a vehicle description that Jessica had given her 379 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 2: boyfriend the night she was murdered, and it was a 380 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 2: tour company, and she had said, hey, here's the name 381 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 2: of the tour company and the phone number on the side. 382 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 2: So when they went to the tour company to see 383 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 2: who was driving the van that night, that's when they said, oh, well, 384 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 2: it's only one person, and that's Roberto Fernandez. And they 385 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 2: said that it's odd that they were asking because he 386 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 2: had shown up at work and he had huge scratches 387 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: down his face, and they said, well, what happened, and 388 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: they thought he was joking, but he told them he goes, oh, 389 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 2: I got in a fight with a prostitute, and they 390 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,479 Speaker 2: seem to think that that was kind of common that 391 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 2: he would talk about that that was something he did. 392 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 2: Later when we started communicating with authorities in Brazil, they 393 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 2: also kind of clued the investigators in that he had 394 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 2: a history of engaging with prostitutes to the point where 395 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 2: he became an issue with his marriage that he actually had, 396 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 2: and that he had also been a suspect in other 397 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 2: crimes involving prostitutes in Brazil. 398 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: Do you think Fernandez had other victims besides these three women. 399 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 2: I do. I think that if you look at the timeframe, 400 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 2: I mean, our two cases were about six weeks apart 401 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 2: from each other. But Jessica's case was over a year 402 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 2: from CS case, and I think someone who has this 403 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 2: type of compulsion, I don't think that they hold off 404 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 2: that long unless they're locked up and secured somewhere, and 405 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 2: he wasn't. I think he definitely has a history, probably 406 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 2: in more in Brazil than we're probably aware of. I know, 407 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 2: we've done a lot of research on our cases to 408 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 2: see if there's a correlation, and you know, oddly enough, 409 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 2: in researching one of our cases, we were able to 410 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 2: identify a different serial killer, you know, thinking that Fernandis 411 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: may have been responsible for that case. So I think 412 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 2: he does have other victims, they just we haven't been 413 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 2: able to identify. 414 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: Net Wow. So fernand has had a pretty violent history 415 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 1: in Brazil, right, you had mentioned that. Let's let's review 416 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: some of that. He was a suspect in a rape 417 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: case back in two thousand and three, and in nineteen 418 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: ninety six he'd been acquitted of the murder of his wife. 419 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 2: So when they reached out to Brazil, So obviously, at 420 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 2: this point in the case, when we figure out all 421 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 2: three cases are linked, the other thing you have to 422 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 2: do is you have to confirm everything. So, okay, the 423 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: computers telling us this is the same DNA profile, but 424 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: the only way admissible in court we're going to be 425 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 2: able to prove that is to get a fresh sample 426 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 2: from Fernandez and match it to the same profile. So obviously, 427 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: say Miami had tried to find Fernandez immediately once he 428 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 2: was identified, and they determined he had flown back to 429 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 2: Brazil literally the day after Jessica's murder. So we make 430 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 2: contact with the government in Brazil and ask for assistance 431 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 2: in obtaining a DNA sample, and they basically said, well, 432 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 2: we don't we don't do that. We can't collect DNA 433 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: from as citizen unless they've been charged of the crime 434 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 2: here in Brazil. We asked four fingerprints and they said, 435 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 2: well that that's no problem because he's been arrested quite 436 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 2: a few times. So they brought up the case in 437 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six. He was married, has a daughter. He 438 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 2: gets in an argument with his wife regarding his frequenting 439 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 2: of prostitutes, and during the course of the arguments he 440 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 2: shoots his wife, I believe five or six times. At trial, 441 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: he is able to convince the jury it was self 442 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 2: defense and he has acquitted. Right after that acquittal is 443 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 2: when he comes to the US and we later find 444 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 2: out the reason behind that is that his wife's family, 445 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 2: at the news of the acquittal had basically put a 446 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 2: contract out on him, and several attempts apparently were made 447 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 2: on his life, so he fled the country. Otherwise he 448 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 2: probably wouldn't have made it much longer. Now, the two 449 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 2: thousand and three case where he's a rape suspect, that's 450 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: interesting because that's after Jessica's murder, when he flees back 451 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 2: to Brazil, so he picks up right where he left off. 452 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 2: And on that case, I believe it eventually fell apart 453 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 2: because the victim on that case disappeared. So that creates 454 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 2: a whole other question about what he was doing and 455 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 2: the activities he engaged in once he returned to Brazil. 456 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: When did your office here that Fernandez had possibly died 457 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: back in two thousand and five, and can you describe 458 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 1: the circumstances of his death? Do we know how he died? 459 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 2: After long discussions with the Brazilian government about Okay, we 460 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 2: can't collect the DNA for you, the decision was made. Well, 461 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: then can when we send a team to Brazil and 462 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 2: maybe not get a sample directly from him, because we 463 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: wouldn't have a warrant to do so in a foreign country. 464 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 2: But you can find other ways to obtain a suspect's 465 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 2: potential DNA with things that they discard. So the idea 466 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: was if we had a team that was out there 467 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 2: working with the Brazilian Central Authority, maybe they could find 468 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 2: a DNA sample. Because the other thing is is that 469 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 2: while the DNA would connect all three cases, without his swab, 470 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: you can't confirm it's him. You know, c His case 471 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 2: has a fingerprint, but Kim's case only has the DNA, 472 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 2: So we needed that swab. So when they went to 473 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 2: Brazil in twenty eleven and they met with the Brazilian 474 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: National Police, they basically said, look, we've done a lot 475 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 2: of background and we do have reports that he had 476 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 2: died in a plane crash in Paraguay in two thousand and. 477 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: Five, in a plane crash. M Now that sounds kind 478 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: of suspicious, though. Did anybody did you think maybe this 479 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: sounds a little suspicious, maybe this something's being fake? 480 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, actually it was. The Brazilian National Police felt it 481 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 2: was very suspicious. When apparently, when Fernandez had returned to Brazil, 482 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 2: the contract on his life was active and people again 483 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 2: were attempting to take him out, so he obtained some 484 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 2: type of unemployment where he was flying planes in between Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, 485 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 2: and on one of the such flights there was a crash. 486 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 2: He was listed as the only person on board. The 487 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 2: body was collected in Paraguay transport to Brazil, but no 488 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 2: one had seen it. No one saw the body, no 489 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 2: one had identified the body, and it was immediately put 490 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 2: in a grave. So that was the first red flag. 491 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 2: The investigators from the US and Brazil both went to 492 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 2: the cemetery, spoke to the caretaker and he said that 493 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: the grave was empty. He said, no, they told us 494 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 2: the body burned up, so it's an empty box in there. 495 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 2: So it was their belief that he had faked his 496 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 2: death to get out, you know, to stop the contract 497 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:56,959 Speaker 2: on his life if they thought he was dead. There 498 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 2: were other things that came up in court records where 499 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: some property had been transferred or some judgments had been 500 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 2: made after he was supposedly dead. So there was a 501 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 2: few indicators that this whole story about the plane crash 502 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 2: may have been a ruse to kind of convince people 503 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: he was no longer alive. 504 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: Wow, how do you confirm something like this? 505 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 2: There's really only one way. You got to find a 506 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 2: body that's obviously tricky in someone else's country where we 507 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 2: don't have authority, But that was going to be the 508 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 2: only way we could do it. 509 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: I'm back with Detective Zachary Scott. When we left the 510 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 1: Broward Sheriff's Office in Miami Police Department had recently learned 511 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: that the man they believed killed Kimberly, Dietz, livesey See Ademus, 512 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: and Jessica Good had potentially been killed in a plane 513 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: crash in South America in two thousand and five. However, 514 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: many people believed this man, Roberto Wagner Fernandez, may have 515 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: faked his death, and he may have had good reason to. 516 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: In the late nineteen nineties, after Fernandez was acquitted of 517 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: his wife's murder in Brazil, it was said her family 518 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: may have put a hit out against him. By twenty eleven, 519 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: police in the US felt like they were close to 520 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: solving these murders, but they needed Fernandez's DNA to match 521 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: the DNA they'd found for Jessica, Kimberly and Sia. To 522 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: do that, they'd need the help of Brazilian authorities, and 523 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: for an international case like this, you mentioned the Brazilian authorities, 524 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: what other departments are involved? Do you need to work 525 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: with or do you need to work together with collab 526 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: with to really get this done? Is it complicated? 527 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 2: In this case, it was extremely complicated. Like several countries, 528 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 2: we do not have an extradition agreement with Brazil, so 529 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 2: they can't arrest him for our crimes, even if we 530 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 2: have ar restaurants, which were put in the system pretty 531 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 2: early on once he was identified, so that if he 532 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 2: did try to re enter the country, he would have 533 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: been detained. But outside of that, even if they were 534 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 2: to rest him in Brazil, they would never extra dine 535 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 2: him to the US. So we were kind of at 536 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 2: a standstill with that because we if we can't extradne them, 537 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: we can't take them to trial. So there really wasn't 538 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 2: at the time in twenty eleven, anything that could be 539 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 2: done if he doesn't leave the country and set foot 540 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 2: in the US or another country that we do have 541 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 2: an extradition agreement with. So while Brazil was extremely helpful, 542 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 2: their hands were tied as well, and the case kind 543 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 2: of stood that way for a while. 544 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: When were you able to actually obtain the DNA that 545 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: you needed. When was the DNA actually confirmed? Did you 546 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: meet with the daughter to get her DNA? Was another 547 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: family member? 548 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 2: So yes, the Brazilian authorities had identified Roberto Fernandez's daughter 549 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: was still living in Brazil. They were obviously estranged after 550 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: the murderer of her mother, and they had done background 551 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 2: in surveillance to see if she was in any communication 552 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 2: and they didn't find any. So as our resource that 553 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 2: we knew was there, but we still had to dig 554 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,959 Speaker 2: up that coffin. That was the only way to know. 555 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: So we reached out through in our own government, the 556 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 2: Department of State, the Departiment of Justice, the FBI. They 557 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: liaisoned with the Brazilian Central Authority, the Brazilian National Police, 558 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 2: and they said, look, we've just had this situation happened 559 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 2: in Cuba. Would Brazil be willing to go along the 560 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 2: same lines when it comes to Roberto Fernandez? And there 561 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 2: was a lot of back and forth, a lot of 562 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 2: negotiations our State Attorney's office, the US Attorney's office, and 563 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 2: eventually there was a limited agreement that if we could 564 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 2: establish that Fernandez was indeed still alive, that they would 565 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 2: entertain the concept. So that took us into about twenty nineteen, 566 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 2: and at that point we began to try to file 567 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 2: for an order of exhammation to dig up the grave 568 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 2: to see if he was in there. As reported, That 569 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 2: kind of stalled, it was fought. It was, you know, 570 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 2: because again it was just hadn't been done before. And 571 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 2: that's one of the things with this case that I'm 572 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 2: most proud of is that Look, too many times you'll 573 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 2: see guys I'll say either, well, you know your victim 574 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: was in a high risk lifestyle. You know, it's just 575 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 2: a murder, or just one little case. I'm not going 576 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 2: to cause an international incident. And the encouragement I would 577 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 2: say to anybody who works these cases is swing for 578 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 2: the fences. Every murder is important, and yeah, create a 579 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 2: national incident absolutely, because you know, if it was your 580 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 2: loved one, you would want every single effort made, and 581 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: we have to go into it thinking that way. So 582 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 2: eventually they were able to get the order approved, and 583 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 2: then COVID happened, so then nobody wanted to dig up 584 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 2: anybody or do anything with biological material for a while. 585 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 2: Eventually they were able to exhume the grave and they 586 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 2: did find remains inside, so we made contact with his 587 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: daughter for a reference sample and compared that to the remains, 588 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 2: and they were able to determine in the Brazil crime 589 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,719 Speaker 2: lab that the bones are the father of the daughter's sample. 590 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 2: Now that's great, We've established paternity in another country, but 591 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 2: it still doesn't link our cases until we get that 592 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 2: back to our samples. So that was a whole other battle. 593 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 2: During COVID, no one wanted to send biological material. Eventually 594 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 2: we were able to come up with a system where 595 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 2: a sample profile was created like computer wise, and they 596 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 2: were able to analyze it that way and confirm that 597 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 2: Fernandez was the person in the grave and was also 598 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 2: the person whose DNA is in our crime scenes. 599 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: Wow, were you able to inform the families of what 600 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: happened right at that moment? What was that moment? Like 601 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: that experience like for you? 602 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: It was it was very rewarding. It was it was 603 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 2: tough because like Kim at the time, she had a 604 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 2: daughter who was one when she was murdered. Her daughter 605 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 2: now is twenty one when I'm talking to her and 606 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 2: about to have her child. So it was a it 607 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 2: was a full circle moment. It was it was rewarding, 608 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 2: and it was good to be able to give that 609 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 2: answer to those families. You know, now it's not as 610 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: rewarding because he got away with it. You know, in 611 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 2: my book, I take some small pleasure in knowing that 612 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: his last moments on earth were probably spent in sheer 613 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 2: terror as that plane was going into the ground. But 614 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 2: that's not enough for me personally. But what I will 615 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 2: say rewarding wise is that, you know, look, I was 616 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 2: just the guy at the end of the line. There 617 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 2: were so many investigators, detectives that worked on these cases 618 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 2: through the years, who never wanted to give up on 619 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 2: these cases. Being able to reach out to them and 620 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 2: tell them, hey, we got it, there was for me 621 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 2: probably a little you know, more personally rewarding, just because 622 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 2: I know that feeling, you know, when you have that 623 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 2: case that you just can't can't forget. 624 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: Was this the first case of a serial killer you 625 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: ever worked? 626 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 2: No, No, but definitely one that on this scale as 627 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 2: far as just having to deal with international diplomacy and 628 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 2: so many different agencies, This was definitely the first time 629 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 2: I've ever had that big of a involvement in that 630 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 2: type of case. So yeah, but I've had a couple 631 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 2: other cases, like with cereals. 632 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: As complex as this, probably not. 633 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 2: No, this is going to take the cake definitely as 634 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: far as complex, just because you do have that international element. 635 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: How common are serial killers? 636 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 2: You know? I don't know if there's a way to 637 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 2: know for sure, because you know, every homicide you kind 638 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 2: of hope this is the one and only that your 639 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 2: suspect has committed. But if someone's willing to commit it, 640 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: I mean, you get circumstances that kind of give you 641 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 2: an idea of lead towards motive. But when you find 642 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 2: those cases where it just seems to be random or 643 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,239 Speaker 2: victim of opportunity, it's hard to know for sure if 644 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 2: your case is the first time that person has done it. 645 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,959 Speaker 2: So I don't know that they're super common, but I 646 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 2: do think that it's real hard to know. 647 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: We talked about the improvements in technology. I want to 648 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: get back to that for a second. This case was 649 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: twenty years old. Do you feel that the improvements in 650 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: technology and science moving forward would lead to more cold 651 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: cases being solved? 652 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 2: One percent? Yeah, I think that that's that's going to 653 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 2: be the bulk of what solves cold cases. You know, 654 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 2: there is that human side that witnesses will You may 655 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 2: find a witness that was previously not interviewed, or you know, 656 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 2: relationships go sour and suddenly someone wants to, you know, 657 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 2: dig up all the dirt. But at the end of 658 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,280 Speaker 2: the day, when it comes to going to trial, credibility 659 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:14,879 Speaker 2: is always going to be an issue. With people who 660 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 2: wait to give their information or who come forward after many, 661 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 2: many years, the question is always going to be asked, 662 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 2: what's their motivation? Evidence of science and it doesn't have 663 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 2: a motivation, It is what it is, so it usually 664 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: carries a little more weight when it comes to the 665 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 2: prosecution side. So I definitely think that as these advances happen, 666 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 2: it's going to allow these more of these cases to 667 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 2: reach a conclusion. 668 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: And closing, I want to talk a bit about the 669 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: misconceptions in the public about cold cases. What are investigative 670 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: techniques you can you can do or technologies you can 671 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 1: use to restart an investigation. 672 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 2: Right now, the big focus and popularity is on genealogy, 673 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 2: and it is a huge resource for us, but it 674 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 2: does have its limits, and it doesn't it's not going 675 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 2: to happened in a fifty two minute episode like on TV. 676 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 2: It's going to take months, if not years, and then 677 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 2: sometimes it doesn't get you where you need to go. 678 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,320 Speaker 2: You know, it's not always a success story. But the 679 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 2: key is is that you at least try. Our unit 680 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 2: is three guys, that's it, and that's the one thing 681 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: that every day we remind each other we got to do. 682 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 2: We have to at least try. Yes, I know the 683 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 2: odds are against this. I know eight times out of 684 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 2: ten this is not going to work, but we're going 685 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 2: to try. Because you can't tell a family, hey, we 686 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 2: did everything we could unless you literally did everything you could. 687 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 2: So I'd say that that biggest misconception is just, hey, 688 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 2: it's a great story that you see, But for every success, 689 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 2: there's probably about three or four that just didn't get 690 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 2: there where we're at right now. But I do have 691 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 2: hopes for science in the future, and I hear it 692 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 2: all the time. There's just so many things that get 693 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 2: improved and innovated that I think that there will always 694 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 2: be these huge leaps and bounds that we can take 695 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 2: and we can go back to these old cases and 696 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 2: find some answers. 697 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 1: Detective Scott. At the beginning, you mentioned how fulfilling it 698 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: is to solve these cases and why you're so passionate 699 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: about your work. What's the personal or emotional toll of 700 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: working on these cases? What can you you know, these 701 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: cases that sometimes, as you've detailed for us, go unsolved 702 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: for many years, sometimes lifetimes. 703 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 2: The personal toll is probably there's a few. I mean, 704 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 2: if you put all your energy, effort, passion into cases, 705 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 2: maybe you're not putting it into other areas of your 706 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,320 Speaker 2: life that you should. I know this is a newsflash 707 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 2: to anybody listening, but cops sometimes don't have great marriages, 708 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 2: and I think that sometimes it's because we do get 709 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 2: focused on this and it's just you have to remind 710 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 2: yourself of that balance. I know I've had to work 711 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 2: on it. I have a great support system with my 712 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 2: wife and my family that if I didn't have, I 713 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 2: probably wouldn't be able to keep going back in and 714 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 2: on these cases. And then the other reality is is 715 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 2: that you try and you try, and sometimes it's just 716 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 2: not the time. You know, we're not in the time 717 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 2: when this case is going to get solved, and that's 718 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 2: all hard thing to adjust to. You don't want to 719 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,280 Speaker 2: necessarily take a step back, but you have to remember 720 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 2: there's there's cases and cases stacking up behind you, you know, 721 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 2: and sometimes you have to move on, you know. So 722 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 2: the personal toll is just being able to accept that 723 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 2: and have hope. That's the other thing that's stuff to do, 724 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 2: because you hit enough brick wallity you want to stop 725 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 2: running into them, but you know, we have to keep 726 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 2: trying to knock them down. 727 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely. It makes me think of this past weekend, I 728 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: was honored with the Presidential Award with the South Florida 729 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: PBA by STEDMN Stall the President, and I made it 730 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: a point to think, like you mentioned, the support systems, 731 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: those family members, the sons, daughters, significant other spouses, moms, dads, 732 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, those are the real MVPs when it comes 733 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: to law enforcement that are really there all the time 734 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 1: and they keep everyone together right. 735 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely, one hundred percent. There's no way I could. I've 736 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 2: been doing this for twenty five years now, and there's 737 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 2: no way I would have made it this far without them. 738 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: Thank you for your service. Is there anything else you'd 739 00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,479 Speaker 1: like to say or anything I've I've missed? 740 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 2: Detective know and thank you for doing shows like this 741 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 2: because you know, I think if people can kind of 742 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 2: hear that, you know, there are lots of guys out 743 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 2: there who are still trying, you know, scratching away that 744 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 2: there is hope out there. That's the one thing we 745 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 2: could always use more of. 746 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: Tick to Scott, thank you so very much for your 747 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: time and for the amazing work you do and for 748 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: helping families get some closure for what is otherwise a 749 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 1: very tragic and senseless act. It's really interesting to see, uh, 750 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: fascinating really the way you've detailed the work and what happens, 751 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: and all the time and effort that goes into, you know, 752 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,879 Speaker 1: building these cases and preserving the scenes and bringing these 753 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: these people to justice. 754 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me. 755 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. If you have information to share on 756 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: any cold case, please call or send in a tip 757 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: with your local crime stoppers or law enforcement department in Miami. 758 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,760 Speaker 1: That number is three zero five four seven one tips. 759 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: That's three zero five four seven one eight four seven seven. 760 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: You can also visit crime Stoppers three h five and 761 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: select give a tip Cold Case Files Miami. As a 762 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: production of Iheart'smichael Duda podcast Network and School of Humans, 763 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Imbrique Santos. This show was written and 764 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: researched by Marissa Brown. Our lead producer is Josh thing. 765 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: He Delis Perez is our senior producer, sound design and 766 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: mix by Josh Thain, fact checking by Savannah Hugley. Our 767 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 1: production manager is Daisy Church. Executive producers include me Imbriques Santos, 768 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley from School of Humans. 769 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: For more podcasts, listen to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 770 00:39:49,680 --> 00:40:02,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.