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Speaker 1: I Robert Evans, this is Behind the Bastards. You sure

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Speaker 1: you didn't sound so sure? You know, Sophie, the nature

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Speaker 1: of identity is so complicated. Who can say who anyone is?

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Speaker 1: Who is us? Who is us? This is my new

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Speaker 1: podcast Who is Us? With Robert Evans, presumably and definitely

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Speaker 1: Sophie Lictorman. Definitely, definitely, so, Sophie Lictorman. This is a

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Speaker 1: show about bad people. It's called Behind the Bastards. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And to talk about bad people with me is one

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Speaker 1: of the better people I know. David Christopher Bell, jeez,

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Speaker 1: thanks full legal name legal Dave. Yeah, just work together

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Speaker 1: for many a year. We lived together for a year.

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Speaker 1: We did Our cats were once as friends. M Ark

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Speaker 1: allied together against another cat might be a better way

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Speaker 1: of putting yes and me, Like whenever I cat said,

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Speaker 1: your cat would have want to have nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with me and loved my cat and you know, honestly

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Speaker 1: that's fine. Yeah, I'd rather be that Yeah cat cat

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Speaker 1: cat lies, Dave. How do you feel about libertarians? Oh? No,

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Speaker 1: people know that you don't tell the guess anything, right.

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Speaker 1: They that the show would not work if we told

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Speaker 1: me coming sometimes they know the broad subject. But I

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Speaker 1: don't even like that. That's not my preference. But that

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Speaker 1: bit is so good it will never get old. What

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Speaker 1: do you think about here, libertarians? My thoughts are, like anything,

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Speaker 1: the most vocal people representing it are incredibly irritating. But

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Speaker 1: I suspect there's a lot of very good ones who

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Speaker 1: keep to themselves. I I I was a libertarian for

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Speaker 1: many years. I still think there's a lot of good

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Speaker 1: stuff in in some of the things libertarians say. I

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Speaker 1: think John Carpenter might be one, but he might John Carpenter. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: today we are talking about the most vocal ones and

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Speaker 1: and specifically the most kind of unhinged vocal ones. We

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Speaker 1: are today, Dave, Well, this week, really I'm going to

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Speaker 1: give you the long history of libertarians taking to the

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Speaker 1: sea to try and establish floating nations. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: are we gonna beat? I don't want to spoil. Are

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Speaker 1: we gonna be talking about Sealand? Oh you bet a

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Speaker 1: little bit, a little bit about Seland yeah, we're we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the whole history of it because spoiler, every

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Speaker 1: story in's the same way, which is a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people lose money and there's no libertarian floating nation. I

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Speaker 1: feel like when step one is taken to the seat.

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Speaker 1: It does not end well generally speaking. I mean I've

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Speaker 1: known sailors and no it doesn't. Yeah, uh so sorry,

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Speaker 1: I just I have a blanket view of the ocean.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it wants us in there. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to. We're not we don't belong there. And if

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, well, we'll talk about why people

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Speaker 1: do this, and yes, for the folks who want to

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Speaker 1: there's always people who want to be like pedantic about

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Speaker 1: like I don't know if this one's really a bastard,

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Speaker 1: or like we'll do like two episodes on like we

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Speaker 1: recently did two episodes on like industrial level child molesters,

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Speaker 1: and then we did an episode on a guy who

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Speaker 1: was like an early fitness influencer and just like kind

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Speaker 1: of shitty about eating disorders. And people are like, well,

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Speaker 1: they're not really like this doesn't really mean. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: not all gonna be guys who raped five thousand kids.

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Speaker 1: You know what kind of show. That would be a

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Speaker 1: bad show. People would not want to listen every week.

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Speaker 1: So absolutely we're going to talk about libertarians taking to

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Speaker 1: the sea to build their own nations, and yeah, most

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Speaker 1: of them are shitty people. So it's fine they belong here. Okay,

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Speaker 1: speaking of which, we're gonna start by talking about Peter Teal.

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Speaker 1: So Peter Teal, PayPal co founder, UM monarcho libertarian, uh

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Speaker 1: quasi fascist influencer UM on a grand cash scale UM,

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Speaker 1: and you know, just just man about town. Peter teele

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Speaker 1: is bank. Yeah, he's running for president or he's running

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Speaker 1: for senator under the name Jade Vance. I think he

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Speaker 1: is currently running for senator under the name Jade Vans.

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Speaker 1: Dark money kingpin. Peter teele Um has been on a

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Speaker 1: couple of occasions has shotgun money out towards bankrolling and

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Speaker 1: exploratory round of sea steating experiments UM. In libertarian utopian

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Speaker 1: living c s sea steads in general, that refers to

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Speaker 1: self sustaining colonies of like floating UM homes basically, So

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Speaker 1: sometimes it could be about it could be like a

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Speaker 1: little island of these weird little hexagonal like housing units

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Speaker 1: that float. There's a bunch of different designs around there. UM.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's kind of arguing about what the best version of

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Speaker 1: this is. But a lot of libertarians think c stetting

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Speaker 1: is the future. In eater, Teal has put and not

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Speaker 1: it's not significant to him, but significant amount of money

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Speaker 1: to normal people into backing different c stetting projects. And

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Speaker 1: the basic idea, um is that with the c stead

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Speaker 1: you'll be in the ocean, so you won't have to

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Speaker 1: you won't have to um abide by any nations laws.

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Speaker 1: So all of these different things ideas libertarians have about

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Speaker 1: taxes and gun laws and age of consent laws, uh,

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Speaker 1: mainly age of consent pass um won't won't apply. They can,

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Speaker 1: you can, you can try to, you can. Really it

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Speaker 1: could be. I think there's an idea that like, well,

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Speaker 1: if you get enough people out in the sea living

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Speaker 1: living the way we think people should live, everyone else

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Speaker 1: will see that it works and then our ideas will

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Speaker 1: take over. Right, There's a number of different ways that

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Speaker 1: gets sold to people. And um, yeah, it's it's water

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Speaker 1: World rules. Yeah, it's water World rules. Um one second,

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Speaker 1: I have the wrong document open. I just realized that's fine.

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Speaker 1: You want me to just talk about water World for

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, talk about water World for a second, Dave.

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Speaker 1: I mean I I imagine it's water World rules down

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Speaker 1: to like, yeah, Kevin Costner being like a shitty dude

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Speaker 1: who like, at one point I think he's going to

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Speaker 1: barter the woman and child that he's with he share.

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Speaker 1: Does that is a moment in that movie? Y? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that movie is terrible, So you may have heard Dave that.

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Speaker 1: In September of this year, The Guardian published an article

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Speaker 1: about the doomed voyage of the Satoshi, which was a

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Speaker 1: cruise ship a bunch of libertarian crypto nerds had bought

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Speaker 1: and tried to turn into a floating city. Did you

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Speaker 1: catch this story? I vaguely caught it. I think that's

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Speaker 1: one of those headlines that I was just like, not today, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: time for this one. It's it's very funny, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty hilarious failure. We'll talk about it in

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Speaker 1: detail later. But like when this when it went viral

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Speaker 1: that like libertarians were trying to like create their own

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Speaker 1: independent nation on a boat in the middle of the ocean,

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people started bringing up BioShock. If you

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Speaker 1: played BioShock Weirdly enough, I've played BioShock Infinite, Okay, I do.

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Speaker 1: I do remember I played all the first one, and

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Speaker 1: I do recall that he is making an ocean city

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Speaker 1: in that. Yeah, yeah, it's a libertarian I haven't played

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Speaker 1: the game either, but I'm familiar as an Internet person

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Speaker 1: with the basics, which is that it's like a libertarian

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Speaker 1: underwater city that goes disastrously lying and everybody murders each other. Right, Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the basic idea. Um. So I think most people

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Speaker 1: are at least broadly aware of it. Um. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's uh, it's it's it's funny that people would compare

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Speaker 1: libertarians buying a boat, calling naming it after the founder

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Speaker 1: of bitcoin, and then like trying to create a nation

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Speaker 1: with it, too rapture, because the reality of the situation

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Speaker 1: is that like rapture in BioShock, which is that Libertarian

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Speaker 1: City was itself like inspired by about like sixty years

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Speaker 1: of libertarians trying to make cities and boats um in

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Speaker 1: various parts of the open ocean. Like yeah, like it's

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Speaker 1: not tire, Like it was made as a satire. It

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Speaker 1: was made as a satire, so you you wouldn't want

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Speaker 1: to like watch the satire and be like, hey, that's

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Speaker 1: a good idea, I should model it after that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's missing the point. Yeah, it's missing the point.

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Speaker 1: But it's also funny to me that people are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is how ridiculous some of these people are that

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Speaker 1: they like inadvertently did the thing that happened in this

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Speaker 1: video game and was like clearly a bad idea. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the reality is that the video game was just

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Speaker 1: kind of making fun of the fact that they keep

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Speaker 1: trying to do this. This is like this is this

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Speaker 1: is like two of our lifetimes of a certain kind

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Speaker 1: of libertarian trying to make a boat nation and it

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Speaker 1: never works, um, but it's always very funny. So the

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Speaker 1: history of this, this this this longstanding like drive more

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Speaker 1: than half a century old to like create an habitat

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Speaker 1: in the ocean that libertarians can try their ideas out

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Speaker 1: in that goes back to the golden age of science fiction. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: it goes back to a guy named Robert Heinlan Um.

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Speaker 1: Heinlan most famously wrote Starship Troopers. Um. He's also one

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Speaker 1: of the founding fathers of modern libertarian politics. He like

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Speaker 1: helped create American style libertarianism. Um. He was a fascinating guy.

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Speaker 1: He was kind of like Gene Roddenberry in that, like

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Speaker 1: a number of his his science fiction books at the

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Speaker 1: time were like ahead of the curve on things like

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Speaker 1: racial justice and not in a way that is particularly

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Speaker 1: impressive today. But he had like a habit of like

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Speaker 1: he'd make his protagonists not white dudes, um, but not

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Speaker 1: making a big deal. It was just like you know

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Speaker 1: this this this guy's Hispanic and that's just the thing

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Speaker 1: that's going on, which was not super common at the

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Speaker 1: time for its time. There's also some racist hell stuff

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Speaker 1: and some high loss but yeah, um, I'm I'm not trying.

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to give you an idea of like

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Speaker 1: why this guy is is stuck out to people. Um,

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Speaker 1: he played around with a lot of libertarian ideas and

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Speaker 1: a lot of really authoritarian ideas. He was a weird

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Speaker 1: because like Starship Troopers is like a fascist book, Like

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Speaker 1: it's it's extremely fascist if I recall, um, their hope

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Speaker 1: and his interpretation is not what the book intended, and

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Speaker 1: it's making fun of the book. It's a it's and

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Speaker 1: now I know there's talk of making like another adaptation

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Speaker 1: without that satire. Yeah, and it's like we're I think

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Speaker 1: they're going the wrong way with that. Yeah, that definitely Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because Verehoven like heard people describe Starship Troopers, which is

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Speaker 1: the military runs the state, which exists entirely to like service,

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Speaker 1: its ability to continue to do violence against these aliens that,

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Speaker 1: as far as we know, had no role in provoking,

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Speaker 1: like a fight with humanity. Um. And Heinlan or or

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Speaker 1: Verehoven heard that it was just like, well, that sounds

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Speaker 1: fascist as hell. I guess I'll just make a fascist movie, um, right,

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Speaker 1: And no one knew I saw at the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw a screening of Starship Troopers where Verehoven did

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Speaker 1: a Q and A afterwards, and he talked about his

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Speaker 1: exasperation where he's like, I literally dressed them like Nazis. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like no one, no one realized it. Yeah. Uh, it's incredible. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's some of what happens with Robert Heinland is

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Speaker 1: also incredible. Um because so in addition to some fascist stuff,

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Speaker 1: Heinland plays around with a lot of libertarian ideas, which

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Speaker 1: is a big part of why he's remembered today. His book,

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Speaker 1: in particular, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is like

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Speaker 1: a lot of people would consider it a foundational text

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Speaker 1: for like the American libertarian movement. It's a it's a

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Speaker 1: very influential book. Um. And to kind of describe what

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Speaker 1: happens in the book, I'm going to read a write

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Speaker 1: up of it from The Baffler. Heinland's own apparent anti

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Speaker 1: government ethos is channeled through the elderly Peruvian born Professor Proft.

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Speaker 1: Bernardo de la Paz. Prof Is one of among hundreds

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Speaker 1: of outcasts, outlaws and outsiders inhabiting underground colonies on the Moon,

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Speaker 1: or as it's known in the late twenty one century. Luna.

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Speaker 1: Proft's cheap comrades and arms are an Amazonian blonde rabble rouser,

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Speaker 1: wyoming not and a one armed computer technician, the narrator

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Speaker 1: Hero Manuel Garcia O'Kelly Davis, the Ragtag Trio spearheads of

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Speaker 1: revolutionary movement to make this ramph Ecco outpost for the

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Speaker 1: marginalized into a self governing nation free of the repressive

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Speaker 1: rule of Earth. So there's like, you see why like

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Speaker 1: this this is attractive to people, Right, there's this idea

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Speaker 1: that there's a lot of like libertarian politics in it.

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Speaker 1: There's also weird stuff like it's a mix of Congress

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Speaker 1: is dumb and like governments can't get anything done, and

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Speaker 1: also monarchy would be cool. Um, yeah, I get the

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Speaker 1: like every year when I pay taxes, I become a

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Speaker 1: libertarian for a second, Like, I get it. I understand

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Speaker 1: the government's extremely frustrating and there's something very appealing about

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Speaker 1: going off and starting your own thing. I absolutely get it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like in the d m V everybody is a

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Speaker 1: libertarian or yeah exactly, like you're just ready to burn

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Speaker 1: it all down. Um, but no, And what what's interesting

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Speaker 1: there to me is kind of like with Starship Troopers,

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Speaker 1: people take like a weirdly like the Minute of the

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Speaker 1: Horse Mistress is about like people who are part of

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Speaker 1: who are living in a colony that's being a by

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Speaker 1: a government, rebelling in order to become independent. And see

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Speaker 1: setting which is heavily influenced by this book is about

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Speaker 1: sailing to the ocean to just hide from the government

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Speaker 1: and and mind bitcoin. So I think there's a difference.

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think they're necessarily reading Heinlan right.

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Speaker 1: That said, Robert Heinland probably would be into cease stutting.

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Speaker 1: So perhaps I'm the one that's wrong here. Um. It

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Speaker 1: also seems like never are a good policy to like

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Speaker 1: start your belief structure from a fictional book, because it's

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Speaker 1: it's not the writer isn't intending it to be something

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Speaker 1: that you're you you take like an instruction manual, I assume.

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Speaker 1: So it just seems like a recipe for disaster in general. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure like Heinlan was playing with ideas

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Speaker 1: that were interesting to him and that some of which

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Speaker 1: he thought should be instituted. Like that's pretty common and

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Speaker 1: in fiction with a political edge, But I don't think

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Speaker 1: I don't think he was seeing it as being as

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Speaker 1: influential as it was in the way that it was.

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Speaker 1: I think he'd be bummed that it's mostly been used

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Speaker 1: for people to steal money from other people in order

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Speaker 1: to not build boats. I think he would be unhappy

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Speaker 1: with that. Fair um So, yeah, you can see the

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Speaker 1: influence of the Moonsha Harsh Mistress and of Heinland in general,

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Speaker 1: and like Elon Musk's plans to colonize Mars, the Crypto

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Speaker 1: Orders making an an f T cartoon about apes flying

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Speaker 1: to another planet to set up a colony. Like all

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Speaker 1: of this, it's a common theme in in libertarian kind

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Speaker 1: of angled fiction ever since. Um Now, The Moon Is

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Speaker 1: a Harsh Mistress was published in nineteen sixty six, and

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one, a millionaire developer from Las Vegas,

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Speaker 1: a guy named Michael Oliver attempted to create his own

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Speaker 1: libertarian utopia. So, I don't know, we know Michael Oliver

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Speaker 1: was definitely a Heinland fan. I don't know which which

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Speaker 1: book in particular spurred him on, but I kind of

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Speaker 1: think it's The Moon is the Harsh Mistress. Um. So

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Speaker 1: five years after that gets published, this guy Michael all

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Speaker 1: of her decides he's going to make his own independent

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Speaker 1: libertarian state. And since there was no room on land,

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Speaker 1: he decided to take to the sea. He established what

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Speaker 1: he called the Republic of Minerva on a partially submerged

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Speaker 1: reef near Tonga. Was called the Republic of Minerva because

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Speaker 1: a boat called the Minerva had sunk there. Um, which

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Speaker 1: could start, yeah, naming it after the last failure that

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Speaker 1: happen around there. My goodness. Yeah, it is a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a weird call. Um. So there's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of land here. It's mostly just like barely reef

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Speaker 1: that's barely above the water line and sometimes under it,

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Speaker 1: like depending on kind of where the tide is. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's only land in the technical sense of the word.

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Speaker 1: But Oliver decides, like, I'm going to take this since

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Speaker 1: it's in the it's in the it's up for grabs, right,

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Speaker 1: anyone can own it if nobody owns it, right, no one.

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Speaker 1: No one's gonna stop him there, And they're like, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: that is what he thinks. He gets together two other

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Speaker 1: co founders who put in funding alongside him, um, and

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Speaker 1: he announces through like magazines and stuff, that he's creating

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Speaker 1: a republic. Uh. He said in these ads that he

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Speaker 1: wanted to make quote and escape from high taxes, riots, drugs,

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Speaker 1: and crime. Um. Which magazines like libertarian magazines. Yeah, we've

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Speaker 1: got the name of one of them in here. Um.

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Speaker 1: It is because this is right after like the Holy

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Speaker 1: Week uprisings, after Martin Luther King's murder and all of

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Speaker 1: the different kind of protests and riots in the wake

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Speaker 1: of that. So there's there's kind of a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a of a white supremacy angle here where it's

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Speaker 1: like all the cities are so fucked up because of

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Speaker 1: all the bad things we did to black people. Time

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Speaker 1: to take to the ocean. Yeah, evergreen statement that there's

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Speaker 1: always a little bit of white supremacy in these subsidies

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Speaker 1: go in there too, Like okay, um, yeah, I want

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Speaker 1: to quote from the website curbed here about Michael's plans.

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Speaker 1: They intended to build a four acre artificial island over

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Speaker 1: the reef and turn it into a resort that would

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Speaker 1: sparkle like a jewel in the blue South Pacific. According

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Speaker 1: to one of the Republic of the Nervous self published newspapers,

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Speaker 1: they hope to attract tens of thousands of residents and

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Speaker 1: base their governance structure on zero taxes, no welfare, no subsidies,

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Speaker 1: and no economic intervention. A coin collector and a real

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Speaker 1: estate investor, Oliver used much of his own wealth to

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Speaker 1: establish the Republic of a Nerva. Soon after sending a

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Speaker 1: declaration of independence, another founder, Morris Davis, built a tower

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Speaker 1: of stones on the reef and planted a flag, a

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Speaker 1: golden torch set against a blue background for the new

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Speaker 1: country on it. So they got a flag. Now they

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Speaker 1: got a little stone tower and a flag. That's step

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Speaker 1: one gets step one flag there, and then you're good

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Speaker 1: to go. I do just love that this guy, with

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Speaker 1: his experience speculating in real estate and collecting coins, is like,

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Speaker 1: I can make a country, right, I could be the

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Speaker 1: founding father or something. I got some means founding fathers

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Speaker 1: they weren't anything. I mean, yeah, I mean honestly, you

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Speaker 1: look at like George Washington and it's like it is

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Speaker 1: just kind of some jackaspion, Like, yeah, I think I

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Speaker 1: can make his work. They're just bunch of dudes hung

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Speaker 1: out like at a bar. Yeah, it is funny, but

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Speaker 1: you are right. Every country was just founded by a

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Speaker 1: bunch of dudes at a bar. Right, it's for me.

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Speaker 1: It's with the libertarian stuff. It just always seems like

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Speaker 1: they're gonna accidentally invent government every time. Right, you should

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Speaker 1: say that, Dave, because that happens in every one of

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Speaker 1: these stories. So because they're like, how do we pay

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Speaker 1: for things? I don't know, maybe everybody gives a little

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Speaker 1: bit of money, Like they start slowly stumbling on the

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Speaker 1: same conclusion. It's the same thing that's happened with cryptocurrency,

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Speaker 1: is like, because all these people get all of their

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Speaker 1: money stolen constantly because there's no protections or safeguards, and

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Speaker 1: then there's no recourse if all of your money gets stolen,

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Speaker 1: and so people have like created things like coin base

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Speaker 1: and crypto dot com that are places where you store

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Speaker 1: your money and you have a guarantee to be protected.

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Speaker 1: It's like like, we're getting out of the bank system, right.

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Speaker 1: It was like Lift was like, we're creating shuttles that

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Speaker 1: go from point A to B and everybody pays a

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Speaker 1: little bit. And it's like, do you mean a bus?

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Speaker 1: Are you talking about a bus? Yeah, but more expensive. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the the genius innovations of liberal It's very frustrating.

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Speaker 1: I just once, I would like to see some Libertarians

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Speaker 1: innovate in their community. But I don't know, filling in

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Speaker 1: potholes um or altering the speed limits on on an

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Speaker 1: interstate that has speed traps. Um, go go do something

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Speaker 1: you don't. If they don't, don't just go don't. Don't

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Speaker 1: try to make another boat city. It's not gonna work anyway. Whatever.

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Speaker 1: So the founders of the Republic of Minerva, after they

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Speaker 1: get their flag up at everything higher an Australian boat

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Speaker 1: to fill the reef stuff with up with sand and

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Speaker 1: their plan is just to dump sand on these shallow

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Speaker 1: reefs until there's land. Right, that's the idea. That's how

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Speaker 1: I'd do it. But yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. They

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Speaker 1: wanted to get it to about eight feet above sea

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Speaker 1: level um and they figured that if they could create

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Speaker 1: fifteen acres of actual land that would be enough to

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Speaker 1: convince investors that they were legitimate and thus get enough

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Speaker 1: money to raise up to undred acres. So like, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna make fifteen acres and we'll use that as a

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Speaker 1: proof of concept. And then once people realize how much

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Speaker 1: money is being made in having a barren island of

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Speaker 1: free enterprise with no resources other than sand, um, they'll

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Speaker 1: come crawl, they'll cut, the money will pour in. Absolutely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no taxes. Is there fresh water? Well? Know, can

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Speaker 1: you can you grow food? Not really there? Shopping? No,

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Speaker 1: but no telexes. Look at all this land we got.

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Speaker 1: We can play like volleyball, and yeah it's tax free baby. Um.

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Speaker 1: That said, like, there's ways it might have worked, especially

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Speaker 1: if it actually had, if they'd got somehow gotten you

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Speaker 1: in recognition, and rich people could just claim to live

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Speaker 1: there and not pay taxes. Like I could see how

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Speaker 1: this could be a money making scheme, And it might

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Speaker 1: have been a money makes making scheme that worked if

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Speaker 1: not for one thing, the existence of other countries. That

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Speaker 1: was the one thing they didn't take into accounts. So

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Speaker 1: damn other countries, These these these barren shoals that they're

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Speaker 1: trying to pile sand onto are a little you know,

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Speaker 1: I think just a couple of miles off the coast

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Speaker 1: of Tonga, which is an island in the South Pacific,

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Speaker 1: an island that has a government Dave and the military,

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Speaker 1: and Tonga cease these foreigners creating what like it looks

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Speaker 1: like they're trying to create a new country right outside

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Speaker 1: of Tonga on land that on the land, like their

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Speaker 1: naval vessels patrol and it's like, well, We're not really

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Speaker 1: okay with this. It's like I'm imagining, like looking through binoculars, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I better call somebody forget to do them about this. Huh.

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Speaker 1: If you don't, if you don't get libertarians, if you

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Speaker 1: don't get rid of them quickly, you're just gonna have

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Speaker 1: a nest of the bastards. Darn we got libertarians? Wait,

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Speaker 1: social or free market? Now? Free market? God damn it

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Speaker 1: gets spray libertarians? Are they at least mutualists? No? God him? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Um so the head of State of Tonga sent them

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Speaker 1: a letter basically being like, We're not gonna let you

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Speaker 1: set up an empire on our doorstep. That's that's not okay.

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Speaker 1: So the first thing Tonga does is they start air

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Speaker 1: dropping just random boxes of AIDS supplies onto the reef

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Speaker 1: in order to establish ownership, right, like, if our government

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Speaker 1: provides a service to this barren reef, then clearly it's

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Speaker 1: part of our territory. That's also like a really good

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Speaker 1: way to insult libertarians. I feel like it's like, here,

404
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Speaker 1: have some help, and we don't want help. God damnit,

405
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Speaker 1: none of them know. Nobody's there at the time. Maybe

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Speaker 1: some crabs. Maybe some crabs got some free food out

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Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, this is absurd on the side of

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Speaker 1: Tonga too, because they're literally just being like, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: let's drop random supplies on this island with a population

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Speaker 1: of zero, then it's our suddenly. Like again, like cryptocurrency

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Speaker 1: does kind of accurately get across to people like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: money is nonsense, Like it's all, it's all, it's all

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Speaker 1: a fucking con game. Yeah, so actual governments to be fair,

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Speaker 1: like you see it in this where they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're saying that's there's what. We never cared about this

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Speaker 1: piece of nothing before, but now let's drop some random

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Speaker 1: crap on it, so it's ours. It's very funny. Um so, uh,

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Speaker 1: this did not succeed in dissuading the Libertarians, they still

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Speaker 1: continue to claim that they were a republic, and so

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Speaker 1: in June of nineteen seventy one, the King of Tonga

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Speaker 1: used his military to officially seize the land, which again

422
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: had nobody on it. The dream of the Republic of

423
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: Minerva died, but the grift did not die, because grifts

424
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: are eternal. Michael Oliver started minting coins for his country

425
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: after it was taken back by the Tongan government in

426
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: order to raise funds too, I guess reconquer it. It

427
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: was kind of unclear what the money was for. I

428
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: was gonna say, yeah, yeah, what a step two here, buddy.

429
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: You know what that feels like to me is that

430
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: he had a really good idea for coins and then

431
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: they threw this in front of him, and he wasn't

432
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: going to change his plan. Yeah, he was gonna stop

433
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: making coins. Yeah I had I have cool designs for coins.

434
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do them no matter what he had. He

435
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: had gold coins for seventy five dollars in silver coins

436
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 1: for thirty five dollars um. And I should note now

437
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: that these are Minerva dollars. Seventy five Minerva dollars um

438
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: and thirty five Minerva dollars, So I don't know the

439
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: actual value. I'm not certain of the exchange rate. This

440
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: is like when Usher was Usher, who was handing out

441
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: his own Usher bucks. Yes, sounds like these our Usher bucks.

442
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: So he advertised these these Minerva dollars um as late

443
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: as nineteen seventy five and austere publications like the Libertarian Review.

444
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: So the Tongue and Government takes him out. In seventy

445
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: one and seventy five, he's selling Minerva dollars into the

446
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: tagline the World's most unusual new country inspiration for the

447
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 1: most unique metal coin ever minted. M Yeah, it is

448
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: on usual to have a country with no people that

449
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: gets immediately conquered. That that is not common. Yeah, I'm

450
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: not sure house you'd sell it by being like this

451
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: is fucking weird, right, you want a piece of this? Yeah?

452
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: We made some calls, didn't we. Yeah. That said, if

453
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: anyone can find any Republic of Minerva coinage, um, I

454
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: would love that. Yeah. They come up online for sales sometimes,

455
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: but I haven't found any recently. I feel like, ironically

456
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: they're now worth a lot because it's probably like a problem,

457
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: like how expensive they are you know. Oh yeah, they're

458
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: probably just a collector's item. Yeah, um, collectors for fans

459
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: of horribly failed grifts. Yeah. I'd be lying if I

460
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: said I wouldn't get one just for fun, to have

461
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: it like on on my shelf or something and have

462
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: a little story there. I had a friend who got

463
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: very excited to buy an in Ron mug. You know,

464
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: it's just some of the somethings are exciting. Um. Yeah,

465
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: So moving on from there, Um, I I should make

466
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: a note because we're starting with the Republic of Minerva,

467
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: which I think is the first example of the thing

468
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: we're talking about today, But there is one other thing

469
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: that kind of happened around the same time that before

470
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: you get to that. It is time. It's time for

471
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: you know, are you interrupting me to make us go

472
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: to add Sophie just for capitalism sake, just for capitalism

473
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: sick and so that we can stay in our houses. Yes,

474
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: I do love staying in my house, all right. Oh

475
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: I do love a good house. Um, I love a

476
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: bad house. Just a big fan of houses, house music,

477
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: so good perfect house m D the TV show. Oh

478
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, great, great, great, great vehicle for um. Laurie

479
00:26:54,680 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: that's his name. M you know there's an episode with

480
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: Jeremy Renner in House. Oh no, I've forgotten, meanness. I

481
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: remember this. It's all coming back to me. Yeah. God,

482
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: what a tragedy. Um. So we're gonna talk now about

483
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: the Republic of Seland, which is kind of it happened

484
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: right around the same time as the Republic of Minerva. Um.

485
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: I kind of think Republic of Minerva is more the

486
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: Republic of Sealand isn't quite a libertarian thing. It's weird.

487
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: Um alright, talk about it. Yeah, I've always wanted to

488
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: go to Sealand. I actually a long time ago, I

489
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: wrote a screenplay with Sealand in it, and I did

490
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: a lot of research that I now completely forget. It's

491
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: a principality. It's principality. The Principality of sea Land was

492
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: established on an old Royal Navy platform that was built

493
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: during World War Two to like protect shipping. So it's

494
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: it's not not even shoals. It's just like this big

495
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: metal looks a little bit like a tiny oil derrick

496
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: kind of situation built in in the ocean in order

497
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: to uh uh put guns on it to shoot things.

498
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: And after the war, the British take the guns away

499
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: and it's just this platform. And you might think, well,

500
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: didn't the British Navy own it? No, because they illegally

501
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: built built it in in foreign foreign countries waters or

502
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: an international water. Sorry, and you can't. You're not allowed

503
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: to weaponize international waters. So the Royal Navy builds this

504
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: this platform and they're like uh. And then the Warren's

505
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: and the other countries are like, you know, it's an

506
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: international crime for you to have that. And since you

507
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: built it to fight Nazis, nobody's gonna say anything, but

508
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: you should probably bounce. So the Royal Navy leaves this platform. Um.

509
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: And in nineteen sixty five, UM, the UK has all

510
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: these really harsh laws about what can be played on

511
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: the radio and not so in the sixties and seventies

512
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of pirate radio stations that will like

513
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: take to the sea and illegally broadcast music that can't

514
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: be played normally in the UK. And one of these

515
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: that that's fucking rat as. It's like pump up the

516
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: vall the principality of ceiling. There's some ad ship here

517
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: because it first gets inhabited when a pirate radio crew

518
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty five occupies the platform. UM, and it

519
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: looks like a couple of them get in there. And

520
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: in September of nineteen sixty seven, a British citizen and

521
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: radio pirate named Roy Bates occupies it and while he's

522
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: broadcasting illegal music from it, declares it an independent principality. Um.

523
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 1: There's a whole fun story here. Mercenaries get involved. At

524
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: one point, there's like a civil war and Sea Land

525
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: basically and a government in exile. UM. A lot of

526
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: a lot of wild ship happens in Sea Land. UM.

527
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: It's not really a LIBERTATETD. It's not a super political

528
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: thing like from what I recalled they do like online

529
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: gambling now Like yeah, I I it's it's more of

530
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: like it's more of what I can get behind, which

531
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: is like, look at this thing that's just out there

532
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: that no one owns. Yeah, let's brick up the place

533
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: and like do stuff. There's not a pretension that they're

534
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: like experimenting with a new frontier and civilization. They're like, Hey,

535
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: if we take over this thing in the middle of

536
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: the ocean that no one owns, we can broadcast songs

537
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: without paying and gamble, which, right, I am entirely supportive of. Yeah,

538
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: I feel like if a bunch of libertarians showed up,

539
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: they'd be like, no, we're full, Like, I don't think

540
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: they want to build anything. We're not in this pret

541
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: your revolution, buddy, Yeah, we got here before you too badly,

542
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: you know. And Roy dies his I think his kids

543
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: are now running everything. Like it's basically like a gimmick

544
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: branding opportunity for the family. I'd call it. There's a

545
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: roadside attraction vibe to it, even though obviously getting there

546
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: is a nightmare. Um So, yeah, you've got Celand, you've

547
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: got the Republic of Minerva. Late sixties, early seventies, but

548
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: for obvious reasons, the libertarian dream of taking to the

549
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: sea to avoid regulation it was clearly present that early,

550
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: but it had to wait until the Internet age to

551
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: really take off. You know, people try this back in

552
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: the day, but it's just it's really hard to build

553
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: a libertarian boat city without modern technological resources. I should say,

554
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: it's hard to grift people into crowdfunding a libertarian boat

555
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: city that never gets built. It's that idea that there's like, right,

556
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: there's like there's probably like a couple of thousand people

557
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: who will buy your grift. The problem is they're spread

558
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: out throughout the world. There's not many in each town, right,

559
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: And the Internet has made it, you know, instead of

560
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: being the person going town to town selling tonics and whatnot,

561
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: you can just like blast it out on Twitter and

562
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: then they all come to you. Yeah. Otherwise you'd have

563
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: to go person to person and ask like, hey, is

564
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: anything bad if it happened to you, and then if

565
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: they say no, say I got a deal for you. Yeah. Exactly.

566
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: You seem like a trusting little lamb. So in nineteen

567
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: a guy named Howard Turney was he claims, and he's

568
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: a liar, so can you take that with a bit?

569
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: He says that for years before he'd had a dream

570
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: of like following in the footsteps of the Republic of Minerva,

571
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: but but getting it right and creating like an independent

572
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: nation or an independent community in the ocean that could

573
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: abide by libertarian principles. In n he's hanging out in

574
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: Caribbean c and he finds a nice stretch of unusually

575
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: shallow water that's in international waters, so it's underwater, but

576
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: it's shallow, so with enough sand you could actually like

577
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: build an island out there. It's kind of his idea. Um,

578
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: So he says, he finds this in n and he

579
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: decides to raise up new Land and establish a utopia.

580
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 1: Now right around this same time, I'm not sure if

581
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: the desire to fund the creation of a new island

582
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: utopia came first or if this came first. But he

583
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: changes his name to Lazarus Long. Oh my god, yeah

584
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: that is that is a porn star name. And yeah,

585
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: I was about saying he's not doing porn. Come on, no, no,

586
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: he changes it to Lazarus Long because Lazarus Long, in

587
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: addition to being obviously a porn name, is an homage

588
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: to a Robert Heinland book. Um, and I'm gonna I'm

589
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: gonna quote from an article Independent from in the Independent

590
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: explaining Howard Attorney's thinking here he decided there were too

591
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: many Howard turneys around and anyway, as he puts it,

592
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: Prince Lazarus has a ring to it. He took his

593
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: new name from a character and time Enough for Love,

594
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: a novel by the American science fiction author author Robert Heinland.

595
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: I admired his philosophy. It was so close to my

596
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: own philosophy, as he says of his fictional antecedent, the

597
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: Lazarus Long of Heinland's epic saga, is centuries old and

598
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: lives in a world where aging is a thing of

599
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: the past. His philosophy amounts to a series of pro

600
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: individualistic slogans that can fairly easily easily be said to

601
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: represent the thinking of the man who created them. Heinland

602
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: coined the phrase there ain't no such thing as a

603
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: free lunch, and among his other catchy aphorisms, are all

604
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: men are created, unequal, taxes are not levied for the

605
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: benefit of the text, and beware of altruism. It is

606
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: based on self deception, the root of all evil. Huh yeah,

607
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: So okay, So going back to so Lazarus Long you

608
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: mentioned there about people like living forever, and like that's

609
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: what that's what's going on, right, the Lazarus, like that

610
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: was that's a reference to like Jesus resurrecting people for sure,

611
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: And then long as in Long, yeah, just you know,

612
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: like if he just wanted to make sure he had

613
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: that double. In the golden age of science fiction, subtlety

614
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: had not yet been invented. We hadn't we hadn't cracked

615
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: the nut on being subtle. So yeah, every character. I mean,

616
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: let's be fair, the founding the founding fiction piece for

617
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: a cyberpunk. The most influential piece of science fiction in

618
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: in decades was hero protagonist. Yeah. No, I mean two

619
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: of the biggest sci fi things is Star Wars. Yeah,

620
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 1: and very little to the imagination and the one where

621
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: they explore in space. Yeah, we're not good at that,

622
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: but at the same time it sells. It works, so yeah,

623
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: you don't need to be Look if the if the

624
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: story is good, people will forgive a shitty title. Yeah, um,

625
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. I haven't read this. Heindland book. Maybe

626
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: it was good. So before his name change, Howard had

627
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: been a small town kid from Bowie, Arizona, who had

628
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: worked briefly as a cowboy before becoming an entrepreneur. He

629
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 1: had definite narcissist vibes, telling an interviewer once, it took

630
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: me a few years to realize that I had more

631
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: intelligence than the average person and more imagination. This is

632
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: funny because he speaks to all of the guys who

633
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: try this, and literally all of their experiments in creating

634
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: new nations are the same and all in the same way.

635
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: So I love the fact that he's like, I'm more

636
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: imaginative than the average person. I mean, it's one of

637
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: the biggest Yeah. Like, if anybody's like I'm smarter and

638
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: more imaginative than most people, I'm like, all right, I'm

639
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: gonna walk the other way. We don't need to be

640
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: having this conversation. Yeah. Yeah. So Howard was a successful businessman.

641
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: He made money in the restaurant industry and then started

642
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: marketing products for grocery stores. He farmed shrimp, he repaired

643
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: and sold generators. He's just like makes a bunch of

644
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: different businesses. And then in July of nineteen nine, when

645
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: he's fifty nine, he reads a report in the New

646
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: England Journal of Medicine about h g H, or human

647
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: growth hormone UM, and the study show that world were

648
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: two vets injected with h g H lost body fat

649
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: and gained muscle mass. So Howard starts selling g h

650
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: g H like he's he's like selling steroids. Basically, two people,

651
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: this is the thing that like Joe Rogan takes um

652
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: and uh. He sells it for like eighteen months before

653
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry realizes there's profit to be made um

654
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: and starts like selling them officially. Um. So Howard like

655
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: gets build a clinic in Mexico. Um, in order to

656
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: sell H g H to bodybuild the pharmaceutical company. Was like, wait,

657
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: we can't do they make money off this ship? Yeah?

658
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: Um yeah, So he gets rich selling h g H

659
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,959
Speaker 1: as one of the first people selling h H. Um.

660
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: So it's exciting that like supplements have been with with

661
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 1: us for a while in the libertarian space. So um

662
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: he Prince Lazarus again, that's how he's known when the

663
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: story starts, I know it's amazing. Pays four thousand dollars

664
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: of his H g H money into the New Utopia Project,

665
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,479
Speaker 1: as he calls it, which is his planned to build

666
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: an island in the shallow part of the Caribbean. He

667
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: estimates the total project will cost two hundred and sixteen

668
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: million dollars. So, like literally every other dude in our

669
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: story and yeah, they're all dudes, he starts trying to

670
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: raise money to fund this. Um. He raises it through

671
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: what's called the New Utopia Development Trust, which he registered

672
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: in Bailey's because they don't make you pay taxes. When

673
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: journalists would question whether or not this was all just

674
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: a grift. He would assure them that neither he nor

675
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: his governors were members of the trust, which he said

676
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: was independent and would only give a small percentage of

677
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: construction costs to members of the government, which I'm sure

678
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: it was completely true. It seems on the level, totally

679
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: seems on the level. Nothing weird here. New Utopia gets

680
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: off the ground right around the same time as another

681
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: very dumb project called Oceania, which was another floating libertarian

682
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: city that started raising money to build itself in the

683
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: early nineteen nineties, right around the kind of the same

684
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: time as New Utopia. I haven't found much about Oceania

685
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: and never got off the ground. Is more than a website,

686
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 1: so I'm not going to talk about it in detail

687
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: other than to reference how the Prince you have to

688
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: call him the Prince responded when a libertarian writer asked

689
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: him why Oceania hadn't gone anywhere. So basically, these two

690
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: start around the same time, one of them fails. A

691
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: guy interviewing Prince Lazarus is like, hey, why do you

692
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: think it failed? And Lazarus says the problem was that

693
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: it was conceived by a bunch of radical militiamen. Everything

694
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: was going to be legal. You could carry an anti

695
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: tank gun down the street if you wanted, and they

696
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: were going to have dueling made lawful. Now, who's going

697
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: to invest their money in something like this where some

698
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: drunk challenges you to a duel and kills you. There's

699
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 1: not much incentive there. Mmmm feels like he's circling the point,

700
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: Like it's that thing of like, yeah, we can't make

701
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: it free for everybody all the time we have. There

702
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: has to be like limits set. And then it's the

703
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: question of well by who ye, And it's like, well,

704
00:38:54,040 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: those people were clowns. I'm the I'm extremely intelligent and creative. Yeah,

705
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: and it's I'm not. I'm not obviously coming from the

706
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: perspective of that, like the only way to have a

707
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: society is with like a top down government. But you, you,

708
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: you do have to think about it more than like

709
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: everyone can just do everything, and it's well, what do

710
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: you do if someone starts killing people? You have to

711
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: have an answer to that question. Like it says a

712
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: lot that none of these none when these guys find

713
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: themselves asked that question, none of them propose anything new.

714
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: They just wind up recreating the government um as it exists.

715
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: It's like, well, you don't actually have any ideas, you

716
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: just don't want to be told what to do. But

717
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 1: when you're angry at someone else, you just do government shit. Again.

718
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: They want to be at the top. It reminds me

719
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: a lot of when people are like back in the day,

720
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: are like this forum is bullshit, I'm gonna create my

721
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: own forum, and then they end up doing all the

722
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: same stuff because it's just that they want to be

723
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: in charge, and that's that's how you make four chance

724
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: Like it's just it's it's it's just like you either

725
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: if you do complete lawlessness, it's very hard to maintain

726
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: that right. You have to like, you have to have

727
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: an idea about what you want to replace the laws.

728
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: And if your only idea is I don't think I

729
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: should have to pay taxes and and should be able

730
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: to sleep with twelve year olds, um, then your society

731
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: is not going to have You're not going to have

732
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: anything ready other than well, I guess I'll do what

733
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: I just left when the problem happens. It's it's it

734
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: feels the same as starting a cult, because well it is, yeah,

735
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: because it's always like if I would be fine if

736
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: someone was like, look, I just don't want to be bothered.

737
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go into the woods and I'm going to

738
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: live off the land or in this case, off the ocean,

739
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: and I won't bother you and you don't bother me.

740
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: The problem is that then it becomes this whole thing

741
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,959
Speaker 1: where they like want other people there and they think

742
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: they think that they can make some sort of new

743
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: government and it it it's like depressing to say it's like, yeah,

744
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: it's all sort of we've we've thought it all up. Yeah.

745
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: And that's the thing if you if you're not coming

746
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 1: to it with like here is if you're only saying

747
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: I don't think these things should be present, but you're

748
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: not saying I think we should do this instead, then

749
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: you actually have an idea. You're just angry because things

750
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: that exist are imperfect. Um. I think there's there's a

751
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: if all if these guys are being like, hey, we're

752
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: going to start a new society in the sea, and

753
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: here's how we're going to deal with violence, and here's

754
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: what how we're going to decide what's restricted, and here's

755
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: going to be the community accountability. Okay, well maybe that

756
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: will work you guys clearly have an idea other than

757
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: I don't want to pay taxes or subsidies. Yeah, yeah,

758
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: if you're creating some sort of yeah, communal system where

759
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: everybody But yeah, this feels very have a plan right, Like,

760
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: it feels very much the idea that their ideas stop

761
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: short of I want to be in power. Like it's

762
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 1: still it feels like a power grab. Yeah, I think it's. Yeah.

763
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: The hope is I think, well, I think our most

764
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: of them is just like trying to make money. But yeah,

765
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people, it's the idea

766
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: that like, well, I'm I got in too late to

767
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: wind up ahead in where I came from. But if

768
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 1: I create a new place out of the sea, then

769
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 1: I can be the king there or literally the prince.

770
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: And again I feel like we've all had that instead uh,

771
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: to take to the sea article in the woods and

772
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: be like, you know what, I'm gonna stop all of this.

773
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: I'm just But then once you if you get into

774
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: that scenario, then it's like, oh, no, how do I

775
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: actually serve I mean, when I bought acres in Idaho

776
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: and then cut off all of the power and internet

777
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: access to that small town Um, I thought it was

778
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: gonna be simple, but it turns out people need all

779
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: sorts of things. You don't sounds simple, It does sound simple. Um,

780
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: but my god, for one thing, Dave, I don't know

781
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,479
Speaker 1: if you know how expensive it is, but digging six

782
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: foot holes the size of a human body real problem anyway.

783
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 1: And if you get other people are real winers about

784
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: that stuff. They hate digging corpse holes. Um, and they

785
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: get pissed just because you blocked food from any what's

786
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: It's a real problem. But the point is I thought

787
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: about it more than these guys did, um, because I

788
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: didn't have to already make land because there's lots of Idaho,

789
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: right yeah, so and who gives a shit about that land?

790
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: Let you go out there and just do whatever for

791
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: a while and for a while, and then you know, okay,

792
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: well yeah there there there are some laws. So yeah.

793
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: But what we just talked about is like this thing

794
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: you notice a bunch is that like they don't they

795
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: always default to doing things the way they're done in

796
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: the world. They left when a problem occurs and they

797
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: don't have the only ideas, like political theory ideas that

798
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: they seem to want to institute are like not paying

799
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: taxes UM, and in fact, Prince Lazarus was one of

800
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 1: the most blatant about this. He bragged that New Utopia

801
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: would quote out Cayman the Caymans as a place to

802
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: hide wealth, so he was very open about this is

803
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: just for rich people as to use as a tax shelter. UM.

804
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: Citizens of New Utopia would pay no taxes, just a

805
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred dollar five year bond that both buys you

806
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: citizenship and promised to pay nine point five annual interest

807
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: to the bearer. So you're an investor if you're a citizen. UM.

808
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: So that's good. No way that could wind up with

809
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: a situation that becomes slavery, like if people who come

810
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: there and don't have the bonds have to pay in labor.

811
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: I don't know a number of ways I could see

812
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: that going UM and interviews the princes compared this positively

813
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: to the fifty five thousand dollars a person had to

814
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: pay in order to become a citizen of Belize for

815
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: tax purposes, which is a thing you only know when

816
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: you've become the citizen of another nation for tax purposes.

817
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: Lazarus his goal was to get four thousand citizens to

818
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: fund start up costs, and by the time The Independent

819
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: interviewed him in nineteen seven, he had almost five hundred backers.

820
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: So you know, that's half a million dollars. More than

821
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: half a million dollars. Yeah, it's not six seven thousand,

822
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: So he actually did invest four hundred thousand. He's got

823
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 1: a good ready to return already. That was the year

824
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: Prince Lazarus began agitating for UN membership for his country. Yeah,

825
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: he's giant. Um, I'm sorry, it's just have some land first,

826
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: and like that is literally what the UN says. Yeah,

827
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: the UN is like, we would consider your membership if

828
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: there was land with people on it, which is our

829
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: our requirement for a country. That's fair. I think that's

830
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: more than fair from the U. N. Yeah, I think

831
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,359
Speaker 1: because otherwise you're not gonna be able to get anything done.

832
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 1: As the UN people are going to be trying to

833
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 1: make everything into a country. Yeah. Yeah, oh yeah, I'd

834
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 1: be doing it left and right. And I would say

835
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,720
Speaker 1: land with people on it is a pretty good line.

836
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 1: If you're like minimum characteristics of a nation, land with

837
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: people on it, we'll start. We'll start there and then

838
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: we'll ask some more questions. Yeah, which I think there's

839
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: more you could do. Is it your land by another government?

840
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: Do the people know you're making them into a country. Yeah,

841
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: you're planning committing Yeah, right, the number of genocides you

842
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: plan to commit next to and listen. If it's more

843
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: than one, that's okay. A lot of countries have Most

844
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: countries really are on the three to five point. There's

845
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:27,959
Speaker 1: that instinct to put a zero, but it's like, we're

846
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: more concerned with you being honest at this. It's it's

847
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: like if you put nothing on your customs declaration coming

848
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: into the US, like you get away with a lot

849
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: of ship if you're like, yeah, I bought some stuff.

850
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: Like I came through customs once and he asked if

851
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: I brought any illegal drugs and I answered with I

852
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: don't remember, which is not the right answer, that turns out.

853
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: But I was just being honest because I hadn't slept

854
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: in a very long time because of the illegal drugs

855
00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: you took out with you. That's correct, speaking of illegal drugs.

856
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: You know what you know well sells illegal drugs, Dave,

857
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: Oh No, all sorts of people, I imagine, namely the

858
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 1: products and services that support this podcast delicious well here's

859
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: hardcore drug use. M hm uh, we're back and we

860
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: are we we just smuggled some ship into the country,

861
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: then some ship out of the country. Then we kind

862
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: of we kind of square danced with the country a

863
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: little bit. Uh, it's been it's been good, good times.

864
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: So Prince Lazarus decides Tonga sent their military and to

865
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: take the last libertarian island nation that we tried to establish.

866
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: I don't want that to happen to me, So I'm

867
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: gonna get you in membership. Then I can't be invaded.

868
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: Um famously a thing that happens when you're in the U.

869
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: N you don't. You don't get invade, did um. But

870
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: that's what he decides to do, and he starts trying

871
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: to raise money from libertarians, saying I need a hundred

872
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: million dollars before the UN will accept me as a country.

873
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: That is not how it works. Yeah, I was gonna say,

874
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: do they take bribes, which, just like anybody with a

875
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: hundred million bucks, you get to be fucking every millionaire

876
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: would have a country if that was the way it worked,

877
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,919
Speaker 1: like it would be nothing to them. Elon Musk would

878
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: have like thirty each based off of meme coins he

879
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: would be issuing passports. Yeah, oh yeah. I love the

880
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: idea that the u N takes pride. It's just like

881
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: und million bucks, not even like if if it's just

882
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: the right clerk, you slip him a hundred dollars. He's like, yeah, sure,

883
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: you guys are in the country. I'm just imagining a

884
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: shady u Win guy and a fucking uh trench coat

885
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 1: and the alleys of New York. Hey, you want to

886
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: start a country, could be get really easy for you.

887
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's a good gript. Yeah so yeah. So

888
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: he announces this, he starts raising money, and the UN

889
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: sends a response being like, will consider your membership when

890
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: there's evidence that there's literally anything there. Um. This pisses

891
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: off Prince Lazarus and he lashes out, telling a reporter

892
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: that he didn't want to be in the UN anyway. Quote,

893
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: they're trying to implement worldwide banking rules and regulations that

894
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: are not in keeping with the philosophy of New Utopia.

895
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: Plus they have a refugee policy for all their members.

896
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: As a new little country, I cannot afford boatloads of

897
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: people from Central America or Cuba or Haiti coming to

898
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: my shores. Because I have no welfare system and I

899
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,919
Speaker 1: have no plans to have a welfare system. You also

900
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: don't have shores. Yeah, you don't have a lot of things, abuney,

901
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 1: there's there's there's actually nothing that you have. It really

902
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 1: seems like you're just a guy. It's calling himself a

903
00:49:51,880 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: country and running around and just like absolutely not. Yeah,

904
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna put up my CREDNZA. Yeah, it kind of

905
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: seems like we need to call like your family and

906
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: see if they could come get you. It would be

907
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: funny if the if the U N had accepted him

908
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: but then just started sending refugees to his house. Look, man,

909
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: until you get ashore, you gotta put these people somewhere.

910
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: He's just kind of boxes of currency and refugees. Lazarus

911
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: had another plan to make his city profitable, unrestricted medical

912
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: testing on humans. H H business had gotten eaten away,

913
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 1: been big Farma hopped on the h g H train,

914
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: and so Lazarus next got interested in anti aging medication.

915
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 1: When he was interviewed in he told the reporter that

916
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: he had secret knowledge of upcoming anti aging developments. Quote,

917
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: there are things on the horizon that people today can

918
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: only dream about. We are not that far from being

919
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: able to live multiples of what we look at now

920
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: is the human lifespan. His name is Lazarus. His name

921
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: is Lazarus, and it's the saint. Peter til is also

922
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,760
Speaker 1: really into immortality. It's a bunch of like, rich white

923
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,720
Speaker 1: dudes who are scared of death and even more scared

924
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 1: that someone at any point might tell them what to do,

925
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: or just that they might not be able to act

926
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: with complete impunity and never consider other people or society

927
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: like that's the thing that's most offensive to them. I

928
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: think part of the money diseases that, like, for example,

929
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: if you were to say, hey, what if I sold

930
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: books online and you happen to be the first person

931
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: to do that, you think that every idea you have

932
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: from then on is amazing, when the reality is just

933
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: that you did a thing first and it was easy

934
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 1: for you because you were in the right place for it,

935
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: and ideas and like expansion seems easy in their minds,

936
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 1: and so it feels like it's a lot of people

937
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: who want to cut corners. Uh, who got successful once

938
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:57,479
Speaker 1: and assume it's always going to be like that. Yep, Yeah,

939
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure the cave person who invented fire for the

940
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: first time, Like I got a lot of clout for

941
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: a little while, and then tried some other experiment that

942
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: ended with them like catching their dick on fire and dying. Also,

943
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: I'm guessing people at the time, we're like, you didn't

944
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: invent fire, Like lightning hit that tree over there and

945
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: you grabbed the fire, like you you know, you just

946
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: were the first. You're the damn first. Yeah, it would

947
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: be funny the side of a caveman with like a

948
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: burning branch with a wild fire in the background, being like, look,

949
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: if you guys, if you guys all invest I can

950
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: make this like this. There's no into how big this

951
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: thing could get. Oh yeah, this fire could really spread.

952
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: This fire could really spread all the kids uncontrolled wildfire.

953
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,919
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, they kind of do. They kind of do so.

954
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: Um yeah he uh he claimed that basically. So the

955
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: claim he starts making is that there's a bunch of

956
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 1: miracle anti aging drugs that are totally ready for people

957
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: to take and can cure death, but the damn f

958
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: d A won't let him get approved. Um right, And

959
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 1: so New Utopia. What will make it profitable is once

960
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: they get this island built, you can sell these unapproved

961
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: drugs to anybody. Um, and that'll that'll. So he's like,

962
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: that's why I think rich people will invest because they

963
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: want my anti aging drugs. It just keeps getting better

964
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 1: and better. Yeah, it's it's very funny. Um. Next from

965
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: the Independent quote. Later this year, if everything goes to plan,

966
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: a construction company will begin pouring piles at thirty foot

967
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: intervals into these virgin reefs. Then precast concrete platforms will

968
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 1: be placed on top of them, and on top of

969
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: these a city will be erected. Plans for the initial

970
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,760
Speaker 1: stage of development include apartments, are three d fifty thousand

971
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: square foot shopping mall, five hotels, a bank, a hundred

972
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand square foot medical center, a casino, a

973
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,879
Speaker 1: convention center, and a university offering scholarships to students from

974
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: every country in the world. There will be no taxes

975
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 1: in New Utopia, with the single exception of an import

976
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: duty tax on consumable goods, nor will there be any

977
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 1: kind of welfare system. A constitutional sovereignty. The Tree will

978
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: be run by a board of governors appointed by the

979
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: Prince himself. Currently, these governors are scattered all over the

980
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: world awaiting the time when they can formally take up

981
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 1: their posts. All of them, the Prince told me, are

982
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: experts in their chosen fields. Really wish we knew who

983
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: those guys were. Oh god, yeah. Imagine going out into

984
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: the world with a degree from New Utopia Community College

985
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: and being like, no, it's a real thing, trust me,

986
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: my guests, and I would I would wager to bet

987
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: that of the governors who are experts in their field

988
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: he hired to run his his country, not one of

989
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 1: them knew how to do things with sewage. Absolutely, I'm

990
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: just certain there was no one. There were no thoughts

991
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: going to like what about all the poop? Yes, I

992
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: I really get into like that that vibe that they

993
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: would build the city and then they'd be like, wait,

994
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: what do we put under this? Like they would not

995
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: have started there. And my guess is that they would

996
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: have just shat straight into the ocean and like killed

997
00:54:57,560 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: all of the sea around it and formed like this

998
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: disease is filled poop bog thearians. Yeah, I think that

999
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 1: it's right there. I get just walk into the ocean,

1000
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: do your business and walk out that it would be

1001
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: the benefit of living at sea self cleaning. Yep. So

1002
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: the first phase of construction is was scheduled to be

1003
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: completed by the start of September UM and UH of September.

1004
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: On December, the country's first birthday celebrations were going to

1005
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: be held. UM would start with the class the crowning

1006
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: of Prince Lazarus. Then he would bestow titles on those

1007
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: who had helped to create the new nation. UH. There

1008
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: would be celebrity guests and an inaugural speedboat Grand Prix. UM.

1009
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: So they had a lot of they had a lot

1010
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: of ambitions. UM. Oh my goodness, did Yeah, they really did. Um.

1011
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: But of course New Utopia never got off the ground.

1012
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 1: The Securities and Exchange Commission eventually declared it a fraudulent

1013
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: nationwide Internet scheme. And this is like nineties seven, so

1014
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 1: this is a really groundbreaking fraudulent on internet skim, like

1015
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: not a lot of precursors at that point. Really, I

1016
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 1: love that it's like, we have downgraded your New Utopia

1017
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: to Internet scheme to fraudulent internet scheme. The stark difference

1018
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: between what he's selling and what it actually is, it's

1019
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: pretty amazing. It's extremely funny. Um. Yeah. The sec ruled

1020
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: that there was like no evidence he'd even tried to

1021
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: figure out how to construct the project. Like, I don't

1022
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: even think Lazarus Long ever wanted to make this. He

1023
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 1: just wanted to get a bunch of money. Um. Now,

1024
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: the fact that the SEC, like, if he was real,

1025
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: the fact that the SEC had declared it a fraud,

1026
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: should not have stopped him. If he was really motivated

1027
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,879
Speaker 1: to make this thing. And in fact, he had told

1028
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: a reporter in n that there is nothing, no law

1029
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: that can stop me. If for some reason it's slowed

1030
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 1: down or postponed, I'll still make it happen. It's something

1031
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: that needs to happen. Lazarus Long died in two thousand

1032
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: twelve at age eighty eight, unable to obtain the immortality

1033
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 1: drugs he desperately needed because he'd never gotten this country built. Dave,

1034
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: that's a shame, man, It's a real tragedy. Imagine definitely

1035
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 1: that country going. Yeah, that's probably his last thought. Yeah,

1036
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: if only I got Mike Utopia started. Maybe that's what

1037
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: was going through his daughter, Elizabeth Henderson's head went In

1038
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen, she announced that she was restarting New

1039
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: Utopia and that the project would have a completed floating

1040
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: city that's heartbreaking. As we record this, we've still got

1041
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: about six seven weeks left, so she could pull it out.

1042
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: She could could. Honestly, I have more sympathy for her.

1043
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: Uh and you know, if I can help in any way,

1044
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: can Yeah, I'll help with this floating city. It's fine.

1045
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: She probably had a lot to deal with. I'm guessing. Yeah.

1046
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking, like, you're raising the environment, and then

1047
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: you probably love your your father and you want to

1048
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: honor them. And it's like I'm getting into the family business,

1049
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: or it's I'm getting into the family business of committing

1050
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: from libertarians. It's just probably what it actually is. But

1051
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: I like, I like to hope she's a true believer,

1052
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: and it's like, I'm gonna make this voting city, got damnit? Yeah?

1053
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 1: Um so yeah is when the New Utopia project like

1054
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 1: both started and blew up. Um. It was also the

1055
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: year that the first boat born libertarian ce nation concept

1056
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: really got started. So you had these guys trying to

1057
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: make platforms and islands and stuff in the middle of

1058
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: the ocean. Now we're gonna have some libertarians. They're like,

1059
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 1: what if a boat was a country? But it's just like, guys,

1060
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:28,439
Speaker 1: we've had boats this whole time. Boat already exist. Let's

1061
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: make what a country. The freedom Ship was the dream

1062
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: of an engineer named Norman Nixon in the early nineteen nineties,

1063
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: right around the same time as Lazarus found his shoals

1064
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: Norman had. Norman had the brilliant and totally original idea

1065
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: to create a planned community on an island outside of

1066
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: the US. Unfortunately, wars kept breaking out around the islands

1067
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: that he wanted to choose, so he was unable to

1068
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: pick any of them. Norman decided then to build his

1069
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: own damn island. He brought on specialists to help him

1070
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 1: sell this idea, including a marketing director who asked him,

1071
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: if we're going to build an island and we're going

1072
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 1: to put some houses on it, then why not make

1073
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: it move? Oh my goodness, I just you know, you're

1074
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 1: talking about reinventing the government, just like working back from

1075
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: island to boat. Yeah. I also love Okay, I got

1076
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: to create a government. I need a marketing director. Top

1077
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: of the list, top of the list. Yeah. And yeah,

1078
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: this is just cruise ships, which are which are terrible

1079
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: places for horrible people. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like just

1080
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: go on a cruise just just just become like a

1081
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: waiter on a cruiseal and fine as this will end.

1082
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: I think the visions a lot of these people put

1083
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: forward of life in their cee utopias. I would prefer

1084
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: to be a waiter run a cruise ship, knowing full

1085
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: well that's about the worst job on planet Earth. So

1086
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 1: Norman decided his new his new nation would live aboard

1087
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: a ship. Um, but not just any ship. He announced

1088
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: through the same kind of libertarian magazines and online spaces

1089
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: as as the other people did. He announced that he

1090
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: was going to build the largest boat in human history.

1091
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 1: It was going to be forty feet long and twenty

1092
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: five stories high, six times larger than any ship ever built.

1093
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: Norman put the price tag for this project at a

1094
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 1: lean six billion dollars, which feels like a bargain. Yeah,

1095
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 1: I guess if he got it. If he got that

1096
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: six billion, Uh yeah, why not? So the idea was

1097
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: brilliantly unhinged. Norman said the ship would never dock, it

1098
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: would never get close to the It would never get

1099
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: closer than twelve miles away from the shore, so it

1100
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: would always be within international waters, never crossing inside the

1101
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: legal boundaries of any nation. People would only be able

1102
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: to reach it by boat shuttles or airplanes. It was

1103
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: going to have an airport on it. Also, Yeah, just

1104
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: the biggest a mile long boat. Is he going to

1105
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: escape with all that money when it all crashed? The

1106
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: biggest boat ever. Um condos Aboard would start at four

1107
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: and twenty five thousand dollars with a one thousand dollar

1108
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: monthly maintenance its fee, because in this libertarian utopia, you're

1109
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: not allowed to fix your own home. Norman estimated twenty

1110
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: four thousand units would be on the ship, and he

1111
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 1: was sure that once he'd sold that many, he'd have

1112
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: enough cash to actually build it. And and by the way,

1113
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 1: again it's worth noting he's not just talking about building

1114
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: a boat. He's talking about like the most significant construction

1115
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 1: project in human history, like an order of magnitude more

1116
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: complicated than the tallest building ever made. He's talking about

1117
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 1: the most amazing thing. Yeah, that can grow its own food,

1118
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: and all it needs is the money first. Yeah, it's

1119
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: just a money problem. Good deal, good deal. So Wired

1120
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 1: actually interviewed Norman over this, and best of all, they

1121
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: brought an experts to analyze how realistic his claims were.

1122
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: Quote I don't imagine that people would buy this and

1123
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 1: would live on this thing for the rest of their lives.

1124
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: They would see it as a sort of vacation home.

1125
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: I could see a lot of criminals buying condos, said

1126
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 1: Gene Feldman and ocean an oceanographer with the NASA Goddard

1127
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: Space Flight Center. Based on his own experiences living on

1128
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: ships and small islands, Feldman said, it's very different living

1129
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 1: in an environment where you have very definite boundaries. You

1130
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 1: can see the extent of your world, and that does

1131
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: something to your brain. After a while, you lose your

1132
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: sense of time and space. He's just like, I don't

1133
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: think they're thinking about what it would be like to

1134
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: live forever on a boat that never gets closer than

1135
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 1: twelve miles to shore. They're creating their own prison like that.

1136
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: You're making a floating prison for everybody going back to

1137
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: water world. That's not a cheery look at the future.

1138
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: Like us all living in the ocean would be exhausting. Yeah,

1139
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot that you have to People aren't supposed

1140
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: to be in the ocean. As you so astutely noted,

1141
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 1: Dave's it literally adapt a lot to it. It literally

1142
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: pushes us out of it. Every time we try to

1143
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 1: go in. It doesn't want us. We can't drink it.

1144
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: It's filled with monsters. Leave it alone. Just leave it alone,

1145
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 1: Leave it alone. Toss some car batteries into it and

1146
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: get on with your day. Give it a car battery

1147
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: or two. Yeah, for the heels, Yeah, exactly, or the dolphins,

1148
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: whatever they want to do with it. It's their card battery. Now,

1149
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: you know, once it hits the ocean, they own it.

1150
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: Which if that, if we actually made that law, they

1151
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 1: might have enough nukes to stop us from destroying their environment. Um,

1152
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 1: so they just need thumbs. That's the one thing they need.

1153
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 1: I think they could figure it out. They're smart um

1154
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: in media, sort of like blasts and whatnot. Norman and

1155
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: his agents bragged that they're floating island would be a

1156
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 1: huge tourist draw, with more than ten thousand hotel rooms available, casinos,

1157
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: printing companies, furniture outlets, department stores, all tax free. They

1158
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 1: were particularly bullish about the promise of taking an American

1159
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 1: style mall around the world so foreigners could shop just

1160
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: like us, but on a boat. Did he see selling point?

1161
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 1: Did he? Did you say? Printing companies? Yeah? Where it's

1162
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: like there's casinos and restaurants. Also, you can make copies

1163
01:03:54,880 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 1: of the yeah yeah, like no government interviews with you.

1164
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 1: You can print anything you want, printing your zines, even

1165
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 1: tasteful nudes of wealth. And then we get into the

1166
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: age of consent stuff again. Um, So as it happens,

1167
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: the Liberty ship organizers plan to go just go ahead

1168
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: and use U S. Dollars as their currency. Um. This

1169
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: was justified because it was easier. Thank everybody values dollars.

1170
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: We'll just use th I get it, like money, money,

1171
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: do that later, do that. I've already lived under the

1172
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 1: tyranny of a nation. But like I mean, you know,

1173
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: dollars sort of again, inventing your own money. It's just yeah,

1174
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 1: it's it is. It's a whole thing. If you're convinced

1175
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: that people need money, you might as well just use

1176
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: money that already exists. Um. Although now we have crypto,

1177
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about it a little bit. Even though

1178
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: the ship planned to stay in international waters, the Liberty

1179
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: was going to fly the flag of a nation. This

1180
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 1: is a requirement for international maritime law. Uh Norman. Norman

1181
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: claimed that Ireland had agreed to let them register there

1182
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 1: and that the ship was going to fly in Irish flag,

1183
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 1: which would mean that the people on board the Liberty

1184
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 1: would be bound by Irish law, which did not at

1185
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 1: that point I think, allow abortion, among other things. Oh Man,

1186
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 1: also you said claimed that, Yeah, he said that they

1187
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 1: had worked out a deal. You know, I feel like

1188
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 1: I know where that's going. Yeah, so he's saying we're

1189
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: gonna fly under an Irish flag and everyone will be

1190
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: accountable to Irish law. But then there's all sorts of

1191
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: principle libertarian jargon and the promo materials like quote, there

1192
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 1: will be no intrusion into or involvement with personal business

1193
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: finances or commercial transactions, which I don't know Ireland might

1194
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: have something to say about Ireland's like, yeah, there will be.

1195
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,959
Speaker 1: Norman bragged that only food sanitation would be regulated, which,

1196
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 1: beyond making him f D a cukeed is still at

1197
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: odds with Irish law and with libertarian practice. Why just

1198
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 1: why just food sanitation? Can people not take care of

1199
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 1: that themselves? Norman R This This feels like if I

1200
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: set up like a cardboard stand outside that sold crystal

1201
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 1: meth and called it Starbucks, you know, and it's just

1202
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: like this is another Starbucks, folks, Starbucks approved, here's your

1203
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:16,439
Speaker 1: crystal meth, like, that's that's what they're creating here. Yeah,

1204
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 1: and he's he's trying to get it people to believe

1205
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 1: that like, well, well, flat flight or in Irish flag flag.

1206
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 1: But whatever crimes you want to do when you're living here,

1207
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: they're not gonna have any problem with. You can run

1208
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: your cocaine empire from our floating boat and you're good

1209
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: to go. It's a real like, don't worry my roommates,

1210
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 1: totally cool. That is what they're doing. So Wired did

1211
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 1: their due diligence and they reached out to experts in

1212
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 1: boat stuff to put some of the claims by the

1213
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 1: liberty people to the test. And here's one example. David

1214
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 1: Hall at the Center for Marine Conservation said, dealing with

1215
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 1: massive amounts of solid wastes generated on board, it's just

1216
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 1: one of many concerns. There are all sorts of questions

1217
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 1: that they'll have to deal with, such as what hazard,

1218
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 1: if any, would it post marine animals? Whales are hit

1219
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: by ships all the time. He said, it sounds as

1220
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 1: if a collided with this thing, I don't think it

1221
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: would have much of a chance. Still, the plan and

1222
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: The fundraising went on in two thousand. After three years

1223
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: of feverish propagandizing, the freedom Ship had evolved beyond just

1224
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 1: a project of Norman Nixon, and now it accumulated a

1225
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: sports team's worth of managers and investors speaking for it.

1226
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: Here's how they sold it. In an article three years later,

1227
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: the freedom Ship's creators say the vessel, whose construction is

1228
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: due to start in Honduras this summer, will be one

1229
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 1: of the wonders of the world. The company behind the

1230
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: scheme said reservations for the twenty thousand homes on board

1231
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: have begun to accelerate, and there were already plans for

1232
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: two other floating cities. Freedomship will be nearly a mile long,

1233
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: seven ft wide and three ft tall, and will have

1234
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: room for forty thousand people, including a staff of ten thousand.

1235
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 1: There will be a school in a university on board,

1236
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 1: not to mention, a landing strip, a hospital, a shopping mall,

1237
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: a casino, and two hundred acres of open space. Roger Gooch,

1238
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 1: the ship's marketing vice president, claims fiftcent of the units reserved.

1239
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 1: Later in the article, which opens with the author noting

1240
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: that creators say the ship will be a new wonder

1241
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 1: of the world. Construction was claimed to be starting in

1242
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 1: sixty to ninety days. Um so yeah, by this point,

1243
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: tourism is no longer the draw. They're not claiming people

1244
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 1: are gonna like show up here. Gooch claims that the

1245
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 1: boat company, the people making this are just a giant

1246
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: landlord and that's all they want to do is provide

1247
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs with spaces to do their businesses. But they also

1248
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:27,879
Speaker 1: want to set up a university. Um where it's bragged

1249
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 1: like they want to set up a university for the

1250
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: kids there to go to, but also so that drug

1251
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 1: companies can do unregulated tests on people. Sure they and

1252
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:39,600
Speaker 1: they love this casino thing. They really want casinos, and

1253
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 1: I get it because it's basically they want to they're

1254
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: just trying to create a town. But then just like

1255
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 1: a shady town. That's it. It's a town, a town

1256
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 1: for just crimes in one school, yeah, where they want

1257
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: to shoot you up with unregulated drugs, right, like if

1258
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 1: it weren't for the shady stuff, just create a town. Yeah,

1259
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, like that's it, that's all you're making. You

1260
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:06,719
Speaker 1: can do that anywhere, uh well not anywhere, but yeah,

1261
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 1: it's it's purely I think that's why it's always sketchy, right,

1262
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 1: because it always comes down to we want to do

1263
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,640
Speaker 1: really shady stuff, and we're gonna make it seem like

1264
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: we're just you know, we're sucking off into the ocean.

1265
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,799
Speaker 1: We're doing our own little utopia where you can do anything.

1266
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 1: Like that's always like the underlining part. Yeah. So here's

1267
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:35,640
Speaker 1: the thing, David. You you know libertarians right, like personally,

1268
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you think as a general rule,

1269
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: how do you think libertarians feel about the FBI? Oh god,

1270
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 1: I'm sure they like, I'm sure they really respect them.

1271
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 1: Uh well, you know they understand, you know, it's a job.

1272
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 1: You know, you you gotta do what you gotta do,

1273
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 1: and they're very respectful to them if they like talk

1274
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: to them, well any authority. David. It's funny because you're

1275
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 1: you're you're going, you're doing this because normally when libertarians

1276
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: and the FBI intersect, it's a gunfight. Um right, This

1277
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:09,679
Speaker 1: it's very funny because they hire an FBI agent to

1278
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 1: to keep track of law and order on their floating ship.

1279
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: Oh wow wow. Yeah, so they're just doing doing in America,

1280
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 1: but with like you can you can sell drugs. I

1281
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: guess right, they're just doing the Pirate Bay, Like that's

1282
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:27,599
Speaker 1: the whole thing is. It's just know, the Pirate Bay

1283
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: would have been way cooler, Dave, Oh, absolutely, it's just

1284
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 1: but all these things are it's just like, hey, get

1285
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 1: in on this before we're shut down, you know, like

1286
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 1: that's it. And if they were honest, I don't know

1287
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: if I'd respect them more because you know, some of

1288
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 1: the things they want to do is horrifying. But like

1289
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 1: if it was like, look, we just want to go

1290
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: gamble on stuff and like do a bunch of drugs.

1291
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: So we're creating this quote unquote country. Uh, and we

1292
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 1: don't really believe in anything. But I might be a

1293
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: citizen if it was exactly if that was that what's

1294
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 1: going on. But now these are like, look, we're just

1295
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 1: being Vegas in the ocean, uh, and we're you know,

1296
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 1: you can't kill people there, you can't do like, you

1297
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: can't do a lot of funked up stuff. We just

1298
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 1: want a little more freedom, just a little able to

1299
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 1: be like like do a little do some stuff that's

1300
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 1: crimes elsewhere, but we don't want to people to be

1301
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: murdering each other. This is not an ideological thing. We

1302
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 1: just think it would be neat if we could sell

1303
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:26,560
Speaker 1: crack cocaine and operate a casino, I would be like great, exactly,

1304
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: But it's like we'll go to your casino and smoke crack.

1305
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 1: If it's like, look, if someone murders someone, that's not cool.

1306
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 1: But if you yeah, if you like do a bunch

1307
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 1: of PCP and fall into our engine, I mean that's that.

1308
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: It is what it is, like, it's what you're here

1309
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 1: to do, and and it's it's frustrating to me. Like

1310
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,639
Speaker 1: these guys, that's kind of how they want to, Like

1311
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: they say, they talk a good game about like liberty,

1312
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 1: like no intrusions on personal liberties, all that stuff, and

1313
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: then they hire like so in this article from like

1314
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 1: three years later, Mr Gooch tells the interviewer that they

1315
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 1: hired a former FBI man to head a two thousand

1316
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:08,480
Speaker 1: person security force with state of the art defensive weapons. Um, yeah,

1317
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 1: and different. He talks about how like, oh, different, every

1318
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:13,680
Speaker 1: deck and Flora will have their own elected representatives, but

1319
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,479
Speaker 1: also the captain's word will be final final. So it's like,

1320
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 1: so you want to have an ocean dictatorship run by

1321
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:22,599
Speaker 1: the FBI with guns and no one else gets guns,

1322
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 1: and you're calling yourself a libertarian right there, Like look,

1323
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 1: every deck has its own like representative, and then there's

1324
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 1: like a president of the vote, like just it's just

1325
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: doing government. It's always just doing Yeah, and we'll have

1326
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 1: an unaccountable armed wing of the state that can do

1327
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 1: violence to you with no recourse and yeah, it's it's see,

1328
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 1: we're freedom freedom. This all reminds me a little bit.

1329
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 1: This is weird of Disney World, because Disney World is

1330
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 1: like when it was established, they did a lot of

1331
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: stuff with Florida where they're like, look, just stay out

1332
01:12:57,120 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 1: of here, We'll have our own E. M T s

1333
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 1: and stuff like fire like that's essentially what they're trying

1334
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: to do. But like Florida obviously still or Disney still

1335
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 1: exists in the country, but it feels very much like

1336
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: like well Disney's dream of Epcot and stuff where he

1337
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: was like, I want this to be its own nation. Uh,

1338
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,800
Speaker 1: but you know, Disney has rights. So I guess what

1339
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 1: I'm saying is have some fucking rights on your country,

1340
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: and I think it'll work out. Like if they have

1341
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 1: a like a like a log Flume, I'd be like

1342
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:33,879
Speaker 1: this is great, that's great, good for them. But instead

1343
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 1: they just want to Yeah. I don't know what they want.

1344
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: I guess they just want to, uh do a bunch

1345
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: of illegal ship yep. Yeah, and and which is fine too.

1346
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 1: I guess I don't have their own FBI. To have

1347
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 1: their own FBI. Yeah, it's cool. You know what else

1348
01:13:51,120 --> 01:14:00,240
Speaker 1: is cool? Dave? Oh no, your my plugables? Is the

1349
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:04,440
Speaker 1: episode over? Yeah? This part one is over? Okay, okay,

1350
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 1: hey listen, Hey hi. Um, I'm on Twitter at movie Hooligan. Um.

1351
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 1: I run a podcast network with Tom Ryman, uh called

1352
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: game Fully Unemployed. You can find that wherever you find podcasts.

1353
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:21,799
Speaker 1: We have we we we we do stuff about movies

1354
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 1: and such. Uh. We have a Patreon Patreon dot com

1355
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:28,919
Speaker 1: slash game fully Unemployed. Uh, there's a bunch of exclusive

1356
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 1: podcasts on that. I'm also I'm a head writer for

1357
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:36,680
Speaker 1: some more news. Check that out as well. That's all

1358
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:41,680
Speaker 1: my stuff. Well, um, I'm no one and you can

1359
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 1: find me nowhere. Good Bye forever.