1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. And today on Stuff to 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 3: Blow Your Mind, we're going to be starting a discussion 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 3: about animal life in the deepest parts of the ocean, 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 3: specifically the deep ocean's predators, looking at what it takes 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 3: to be an active hunter in the deep. And I 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 3: thought a good place to start off with this series 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 3: would be the story that inspired me to look at 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 3: this topic, and that was the discovery last year of 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 3: a new species known as Delsabella common chaka. You may 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 3: have seen stories about this. It was covered in some 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 3: popular press, but the finding was described in a November 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four paper published in the journal Systematics and 16 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 3: Biodiversity by Johanna Weston, Carolina Gonzales, Reuben Escribano, and Osvaldo Uloa, 17 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 3: and the paper was called a new large predator Amphibida 18 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 3: useyrite hidden at Haitl depths of the Atacama Trench. Now, 19 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 3: one of the things that really got my attention when 20 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 3: I was first reading about this was simply what this 21 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 3: animal looks like. We'll get to a physical description of 22 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 3: it in just a minute. But the other thing that 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 3: I thought was really interesting is the ecological question how 24 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 3: an animal like this makes its living in such an environment, 25 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 3: what it takes to be a predator so far down 26 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 3: in the ocean. And we'll be continuing to explore that 27 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 3: question as we as we move on in the series. 28 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 3: So the authors of this paper included scientists affiliated with 29 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 3: the Woodshole Oceanographic Institute in the United States and the 30 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 3: Instituto millenniody Oceanographia, which is based at the Universidad des 31 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 3: Concepcion in Chile. Now, again, this paper was marking the 32 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 3: discovery of a new species of oceanic predator, and the 33 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 3: name they gave to the new predator was del Sibella Kemanchaka. 34 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 3: And this is interesting for a number of reasons. I'll 35 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 3: do a full etymology in just a minute here, but 36 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 3: especially I wanted to draw attention to the species name Kemanchaka, 37 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 3: which I saw in several sources was derived from an 38 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 3: Andean language word, a word apparently in several of the 39 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 3: Indian languages meaning darkness, but apparently it has multiple meanings. 40 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 3: So kemanchaka also refers, according to the authors of this paper, 41 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: to quote a dense, low coastal fog that forms by 42 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 3: the Atacama Desert and moves inland. Kamanchakas was also the 43 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 3: name given to some of the littoral inhabitants of this 44 00:02:54,840 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 3: desertic region, so mysterious swirling ideas. There a name that 45 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 3: means fog, a kind of fog that rolls in, rolls 46 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 3: in around the desert. And then also darkness itself. Now 47 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 3: why would the species be named darkness, Well, it's because 48 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 3: Dulcibella kim and Chaka was discovered at a depth of 49 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 3: almost eight thousand meters in a place called the Atacama Trench. 50 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: This is a deep ocean trench basically following the contour 51 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: off the coast of South America from perud Icile and 52 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 3: it's roughly one hundred and sixty kilometers or about one 53 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 3: hundred miles off shore for most of its length. And 54 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 3: as we will probably continue to come back to in 55 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 3: this series, there are a lot of interesting things about 56 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: this sort of environment. Deep ocean trenches, sometimes called the 57 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 3: Hadle zone, can function kind of like islands do in biogeography. 58 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 3: They create a pocket of environmental conditions surrounded on all 59 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 3: sides by much different conditions where the ocean is less 60 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 3: deep all around them. Unless the pressure is different, the 61 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 3: temperature is different. And thus in these in these deep 62 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 3: deep zones surrounded by the less deep deep zones, they 63 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 3: can evolve unique isolated organisms and biological relationships. So ocean 64 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: trenches are in many ways like islands inverted, but with 65 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 3: unique features. For example, the kind of ecosystem that's possible 66 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 3: in a deep ocean trench is based in part on 67 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 3: what happens in the ocean above it, like what kind 68 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 3: of biological productivity takes place up there, and by consequence, 69 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 3: what kind and quantities of goodies rain down into the 70 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 3: trench from above. I was thinking about it, and you 71 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 3: could almost kind of compare that environmental factor to something 72 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 3: like soil quality or water conditions on a terrestrial island environment. 73 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, often refer to does the marine snow? I 74 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: think of it as kind of like the gray rainfall 75 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: of little pieces of flesh. 76 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: The blessed rot that sustains us all. And in addition 77 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 3: to these interesting general qualities that the Autocoma Trench itself 78 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 3: is especially interesting and unique because of its relative isolation 79 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 3: from other deep ocean trenches. So to read from the 80 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 3: paper here, the authors say, quote the Hatel zone, or 81 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 3: the deepest forty five percent of the ocean from six 82 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 3: thousand to eleven thousand meters, has high levels of undiscovered biodiversity. 83 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 3: Most Hatel features are trenches formed at the subduction zone 84 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 3: between tectonic plates and shaped by a unique suite of 85 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 3: extrinsic and intrinsic factors. The Autocoma Trench, the southern sector 86 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 3: of the Peru Chile Trench, is one of the most 87 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 3: geographically isolated Hatel features and is situated below eutrophic surface 88 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 3: waters and cara rised by high sediment loads. The Atakoma 89 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 3: Trench is known to host a highly distinctive faunel community 90 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: driven by a combination of these isolating factors. So it's 91 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 3: not just the things that are true of these these 92 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 3: deep trench environments, the Hatel zones around the world, but 93 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 3: also that there's something kind of special about this one, 94 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: that it's especially isolated, that it's got these productive waters 95 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 3: above it, and so it gives rise to a lot 96 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 3: of unique and fascinating biology. 97 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 2: Kind of a Galapagos of the deep, perhaps to play 98 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 2: with that island comparison. 99 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 3: Now, just a side note here because it connected to 100 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 3: something we've talked about before. The authors give a nod 101 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 3: to important early work done in characterizing hadel fauna in 102 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 3: the nineteen sixties by expeditions of the First of all, 103 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 3: they mentioned the RV academic Corchetov, but then they also 104 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 3: mentioned the r V el Tanan. Yeah, we talked about 105 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 3: some deep otion surveys by the Eltannan in a series 106 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 3: we did about sort of anomalous imagery taken underwater that 107 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: people ended up saying had to be UFOs or some 108 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: kind of technology from the future or Atlantis or anything 109 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 3: like that. In this case, the thing was the el 110 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 3: tannin quote antenna. Many people have said, oh, yeah, this 111 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 3: has to be a piece of alien technology because it 112 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 3: looks like a radar array with these aerials coming up. 113 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 3: In fact, it is almost definitely a carnivorous sponge. 114 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, deep sea carnivorous sponge. Yeah. So that's a fun 115 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: episode to go back and listen to if you want 116 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: to lean more into this weird world of misinterpretation of 117 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: confusing visual data. 118 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: So coming back to this newly discovered species, the new 119 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 3: species is an amphipod now amphipods are animals belonging to 120 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 3: the order Amphipida, which are crustaceans found in both marine 121 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 3: and freshwater environments, usually described as having laterally compressed bodies, 122 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 3: so you can think of them as taller than they 123 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 3: are wide, maybe like somebody put them in a vice 124 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: and squeeze their sides in. I've seen a number of 125 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 3: sources describe amphipods as looking shrimp like, and that does 126 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: describe some of them. Confusingly, shrimp are not amphipods, but 127 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 3: a lot of apipods do look shrimp like, though not 128 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 3: all of them. Some of them look more like weird 129 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 3: fantasy insects. For example, just one I found that I 130 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: thought was very visually striking. If you want a good 131 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: little freak out, look up the amphipod genus Epimeria epi 132 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 3: me r Ia with a few of the guys in 133 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 3: this genus. I get strong notes of the toxic jungle 134 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 3: from NAUSICAA. 135 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and this one image that you shared in our 136 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 2: outline here, in particular, I found extra grotesque because if 137 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 2: I didn't know better, I would dismiss this image as 138 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 2: that sort of horrifying AI generated monster imagery that you 139 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 2: see where are these days? You know, the sort of 140 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: thing that is in and of itself unnerving and disturbing. 141 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: But I've also swiftly conditioned myself to abhor them all 142 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 2: the more because I know they're not the product of 143 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 2: a human mind or a human imagination. So just looking 144 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 2: at this image makes my stomach churn in weird ways, 145 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 2: and I end up not really knowing how I feel 146 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 2: about it. But of course this is not an AI 147 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: generated monstrosity. This isn't an actual denizen of the natural world. 148 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 3: I wonder if everybody has the same experience I do, 149 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 3: so I don't. Of course, I don't personally use Facebook 150 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 3: these days, but I still have an account specifically to 151 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 3: check our work, you know, our work page every now 152 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: and then, and every time I log in there, literally 153 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 3: my entire news feed on there is just like AI 154 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 3: generated fake images of things and saying like new beasts 155 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 3: discovered in whatever, And you know, it's almost like they're 156 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 3: like they're trying to trick us into doing an episode 157 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: on this new beast discovered as so AI garbage. That's 158 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 3: like a fake image of some monster in a jungle. 159 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't like it. 160 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 3: I mean, in a way. I appreciate it because it's 161 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 3: so distasteful. I'm not even tempted to scroll the news 162 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 3: feed for a few seconds. I just immediately navigate away. 163 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: But yeah, there's currently a sameness to so much of it, 164 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: and I guess I should appreciate that sameness. Swile it's 165 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 2: still there. If it gets harder to tell them, even 166 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: harder to classify them and categorize them as AI generated things, 167 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: then we're even We're in even more troubling waters. 168 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, but back to real troubling waters, right. 169 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 2: So. 170 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,719 Speaker 3: Amphipods can be found in all over the place, many habitats. 171 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 3: They take many different forms. It seems the majority of 172 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 3: amphipods are scavengers. They eat decomposing organisms or whatever little 173 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: bits of organic detritis they come across. The new species 174 00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 3: described in this paper, however, is an active predator. According 175 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 3: to the authors, it is the first large active predator 176 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 3: ever found this deep in the Atacoma Trench. Again, it 177 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 3: was the individuals collected here. We're at like seventy nine 178 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 3: hundred meters down. All the other amphipods previously identified in 179 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 3: this area have been scavengers. Though predatory amphipods have been 180 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 3: found in other ocean trenches on Earth. So the specimens 181 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 3: here were collected by a deep sea vehicle operated by 182 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 3: Chile's Integrated Deep Ocean Observing System in twenty twenty three, 183 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 3: there was like a they call it like a lander vehicle. 184 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 3: So it's like a thing that can go down and 185 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 3: collect collect specimens, collect baited traps and things like that. 186 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 3: And according to morphological and genetic analysis, this new predator 187 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 3: is not only a newly discovered species, but a newly 188 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 3: discovered genus. And here's where I wanted to get back 189 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 3: to both the etymology of the genus and species name, 190 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 3: but to a kind of interesting side note on taxonomic frustration. 191 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: So the authors originally tried to give this animal the 192 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 3: genus name Dulcinea, which is spelled d u l c 193 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 3: i n e A Dulcinea, after the name of a 194 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 3: character from don Quixote. 195 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Robert Doolay would have loved this, this choice 196 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 2: in genus name because the lyrics to don Quixote the 197 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 2: man a Lamacha musical. Rather, it goes like, you know, Dulcinea, dulcinea, 198 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: I see heaven when I see the Dulcinea. 199 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 3: Okay, I don't know that one. It's a great musical, Okay, 200 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: I'll look it up. I've heard of it before, obviously, 201 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 3: but yeah, never, I've never seen it or listen. But 202 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 3: this this apparently, and so like trying to name this 203 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 3: genus after don Quixote was apparently following a pre existing 204 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 3: convention by which several other genera of deep sea amphipods 205 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 3: were named after characters from Servantes. So I've never read 206 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 3: don Quixote myself, so I didn't know who this character was, 207 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: and I was curious to look it up. The character 208 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 3: is called Dulcinea del Toboso and is a character that 209 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 3: is fictional or maybe better to say, imaginary, within the 210 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 3: narrative of the novel. So, the character don Quixote is, 211 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 3: you know, like a knight errant, and he thinks he 212 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 3: must have a lady to serve. So the way I 213 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 3: read it summarized is that he looks at a peasant 214 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 3: girl and then he kind of imagines a version of 215 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 3: her as this high born princess who is impossibly perfect 216 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 3: and worthy of his lance in every way, and so 217 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,599 Speaker 3: he thinks of her as the ultimate all time milady. 218 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 3: And this character in his head he names Dulcinea del toboso. 219 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 3: Dulcinea derived from like dulce, the Latin word for sweet, 220 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: So this name would mean a superlative sweetness. And so, 221 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 3: together with what I already mentioned about the species name 222 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 3: cumunchaka meaning darkness, darkness in several indigenous and in languages, 223 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 3: this predatory amphipod's name basically means sweet darkness. It's like 224 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 3: the name of a necromancer's pet. And so this is 225 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 3: just even the name Dulcinea darkness. That sounds pretty great. 226 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 3: That's got some great noir vibes to it. Oh yeah, 227 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 3: it's like that saccharin goth thing. There's a lot of that, 228 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 3: a lot of that going on. And so this is 229 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 3: still basically what the animal is named. But remember I 230 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 3: was gonna mention taxonomic frustrations. So they were trying to 231 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 3: name the genus Dulcinea, but it turned out that name 232 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 3: had already been assigned to a genus of Coleoptera, I 233 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 3: mean beatles, a genus of beetles a long time ago, 234 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 3: I think over one hundred years ago. I don't even 235 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 3: know if that genus name is even used anymore, but 236 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 3: it had been assigned sometime in the past, and according 237 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 3: to the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature, you cannot reuse names, 238 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 3: so they had to change the name. They changed it 239 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 3: to Dulcibella, also a nickname derived from the word for 240 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 3: sweet or weakness, also basically meaning milady. And so now 241 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 3: we end up with dulcibella common chaka. Still, I think 242 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 3: you can still say sweet darkness. 243 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: By the way, some of you might have noticed that 244 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: I said dulcinea earlier and not dulcinea. In the musical, 245 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 2: they say dulcinea, so I believe dulcinea is correct. So 246 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: I don't know. This is not a show that is 247 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 2: exclusively about musicals, though, so those are you more familiar 248 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 2: with Mana la mancha, perhaps you can write it about it. 249 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 3: I think we also are bound to be forgiving of 250 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 3: pronunciation differences. 251 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 2: I think Peter O'Toole sings it dulcinea in the nineteen 252 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: seventy two adaptation of the musical. But we're not talking 253 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: about Peter o'tool We're talking about the deep ocean. 254 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 3: Right, So I think it's finally time to talk about 255 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 3: the physical form of this creature. So Rob, I've attached 256 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 3: a photo for you to look at in the outline here. Again, 257 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 3: folks at home, if you want to look it up yourselves, 258 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 3: you can google Dulcabella kamon Chaka. The first thing I 259 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 3: have to acknowledge is what many other articles have already 260 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 3: pointed out. There is some significant overlap with the appearance 261 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: of the face hugger from Alien. Not so much in 262 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: body form, it's not shaped like a face hugger, but 263 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 3: in color and texture. I think we're almost perfectly there. 264 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 3: The pale white and off white, slimy, bumpy surface in 265 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 3: some places looks kind of like a shrimp covered in 266 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 3: white goo. In other places looks like a translucent white 267 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 3: skin stretched over a bumpy landscape of I got some 268 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 3: things in there that look like vertebrae, little leg joints 269 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: and knobs that were just made to wriggle and writhe. 270 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 3: It is monstrously face huggery in multiple ways, not in 271 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 3: body shape, but otherwise. Yes. 272 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 2: The texture, the apparent texture here reminds me of various 273 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: images I've seen of like three D printed scaffolding for 274 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 2: like vatgrown organs, and like you know, it has that 275 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 2: kind of appear. It's kind of like if you three 276 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: D printed a shrimp and you really didn't want to 277 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 2: eat it. It also kind of has a zoidberg ye 278 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 2: look to it, with its various mouth parts. It looks 279 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 2: almost like it has like cuthulhuoid tentacles or something, So 280 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 2: it has a real kind of sinister vibe. 281 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 3: I have to say. Now, there's another thing that is 282 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 3: both creepy and funny about it, which is not so 283 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 3: much about the organism itself, but about how I misunderstood 284 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 3: it when I was first looking at this picture. Because 285 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 3: one way I would have initially described this is it's 286 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 3: like a cavefish xenomor of shrimp dog with a broom 287 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 3: for a face. Because there is what I first interpreted 288 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 3: to be like a huge, long, bristly white beard shooting 289 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 3: straight out of the animal's head. But here's the thing 290 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 3: on the right side of the image. There, rob that 291 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 3: is not the animal's head. I was looking at it backwards. 292 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 3: The head is on the left. So an expert, you know, 293 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 3: somebody who knows amphipod biology, probably would not have made 294 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 3: this mistake. But just to add to the list of 295 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 3: weird things about it for the lay observer, the backside 296 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 3: doubles as a kind of ghostly veiled face and again 297 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 3: a little, you said, Cathu Lewy. I can see that 298 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 3: because the way you know, mind flavors are rendered with 299 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 3: like all the tentacles coming out of the face. When 300 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 3: you look at its backside as its head, which really 301 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 3: I think many observers would be strongly inclined to do, 302 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 3: it's got all this stuff coming out of the front 303 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 3: and that that's actually the back. 304 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 305 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 306 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: So it's even weirder when you look at it the 307 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 2: right way around because its head is up here, not 308 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 2: down there. Wow. 309 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 3: So this specimen we're looking at here is a little 310 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 3: less than four centimeters long. And remember this does qualify 311 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 3: as a large predator for its environment. There was a 312 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 3: part of the paper I want to read where the 313 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 3: authors describe its characteristic body features, because it ends up 314 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 3: that it's like this list of weird anatomical terms that 315 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 3: flow together like a kind of horrible poetry. So they 316 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 3: describe it as follows, a smooth dorsal body, twelve spines 317 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 3: on the outer maxilla, one plate, subsimilar and strongly subcelate 318 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 3: nathopods with broad carpus lobes. The periopods three and four 319 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 3: Dactyli are zero point forty five x of the respective 320 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 3: propodus and periopods five to seven dactili are zero point 321 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 3: six x, a distal spiniform process on the peduncle of 322 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 3: Europod one and an elongated but weakly cleft telson and 323 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 3: that al It's like, I don't know, sexy or something. 324 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 2: It is sexy or something. Yes, the peduncle of europod one. 325 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 3: I love it, but again you might not guess by 326 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 3: looking at it. One of the things that distinguishes this 327 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 3: is that for its environment, this is a fast moving animal, 328 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 3: a fast moving predator of the deep ocean, not an 329 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 3: ambling seafloor scrubber, but an active predator that chases down prey. 330 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 3: Typically it's prey being other amphipods. You might remember from 331 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 3: the poetry passage the nathopods that spelled g n A 332 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 3: t h opods. These are raptorial front appendages that the 333 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 3: animals used to hunt. So they'll dart through the water 334 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 3: and snatch the smaller cousins with these fore claws that 335 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 3: looks you can kind of imagine like the clause of 336 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 3: a praying mantis. You know, these folding fore claws that 337 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 3: can grab and then feed prey toward the mouth. 338 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 2: Strong elements of JABBERWOCKI I want to say to all 339 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 2: of the language involved in this description, Yeah, yeah, I 340 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 2: feel like the nathopods surely Outgrabe at one point or another. 341 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I just had to look up the poem. 342 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 3: I couldn't remember the exact phrasing, but I see this 343 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 3: and I see sly the toes. But anyway, I just 344 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 3: thought this was so interesting looking at animals like this 345 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 3: and that we're still discovering these types of these animals, 346 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 3: these predators, because it reminds us how relatively little we 347 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 3: know about these extremely deep environments, especially super deep like 348 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 3: the Hadel Zone the deep ocean trenches. And one thing 349 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 3: that some authors writing about this discovery mentioned is that 350 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 3: there's actually a lot that studying the fauna of the 351 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 3: Hadel Zone could teach us about how to look for 352 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: life elsewhere in the Solar System, like on subsurface oceans, 353 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 3: on moons like Europa. 354 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, the idea of looking into dark, lightless oceans. 355 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 2: We have dark, lightless regions of our own ocean. And indeed, 356 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 2: one thing that becomes clear when you start reading more 357 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 2: about specific organisms is that we know more than we 358 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 2: ever have regarding these depths but there is still so 359 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 2: much mystery, and you know, it's just there are these 360 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 2: are places that are hard to get to, hard to 361 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 2: get eyes down there, you know, be they organic or mechanical. 362 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 2: And we've discussed in the past the complications that are 363 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: involved in bringing any kind of physical specimens up from 364 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 2: the deep. They may you know, explode and be damaged 365 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 2: in ways that don't apply as much to other organisms 366 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: you might collect. Many of these are very delicate as well. 367 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely true. So there are a lot of challenges 368 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 3: to studying the biology and ecology of the deep ocean, 369 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 3: but there is a lot of interesting stuff we know, 370 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 3: and that's what we want to look at in the series, 371 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 3: specifically again focused on predators. What are preor is doing 372 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 3: down there, What challenges to predators in the deep deep 373 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 3: ocean face, and how do they make a living? 374 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, so first and foremost we have to talk 375 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 2: just briefly, I think about temperature and pressure. We've discussed 376 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 2: the challenges of temperature and pressure and the deep ocean 377 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 2: before and stuff to blow your mind. But we're talking 378 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 2: about depths where sunlight does not reach and so too, 379 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,959 Speaker 2: the sun's heat does not quite reach it. Geothermal sources 380 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 2: of heat acide. It's a realm of pretty chilling waters, 381 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 2: and to be on the ocean floor is to feel 382 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 2: the pressure of the water column on your back and 383 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 2: upon all sides of you at once. Actually, the pressure 384 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: at the bottom of the Mariana Trench is more than 385 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 2: a thousand times that of the pressure at sea level. 386 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 2: And meanwhile, the temperature down there is I've read on 387 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: the order of like one to four degrees celsius or 388 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 2: thirty four to thirty nine degrees fahrenheit. 389 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: So an extreme environment, and organisms that want to adapt 390 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: or evolve to survive there need to you need to 391 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 3: make some pretty radical investments. 392 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 2: That's right now. One thing that's interesting about the deep 393 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 2: ocean is that it may at times seem like a contradiction. 394 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 2: You know, it may seem like a contradictory realm because, 395 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 2: on one hand, is pointed out by for example, the 396 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 2: Deep Sea Conservation Coalition, it is a biologically diverse realm 397 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: and one that ultimately constitutes ninety five percent of the 398 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: Earth's living environment. If you consider the hard surface of 399 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: a planet to be its core environment, so you know, 400 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 2: not just talking about the surface that we know, but 401 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 2: also the seafloor is being like the rocky surface, then 402 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 2: the ethhotic zone. The dark ocean is the majority of 403 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 2: the Earth. It's the realm. Alien observers might, by some 404 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 2: metric consider the default tearan environment, you know, like on 405 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 2: the rocky surface, covered by like crushing amounts of water 406 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 2: and out reach of sunlight. 407 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, so like terrestrial animals by comparison, are just the 408 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 3: thing is living on certain mountaintops. That's right. 409 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 2: The dark ocean entails the mesopo logic, the bathop logic, 410 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 2: and the abyssopalalgic and the deepest hatopelagic zone, which is 411 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 2: also known as the hatal zone. And again in the 412 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 2: darkness here there is diversity, there is life. 413 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean life there is easy, and in 414 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 3: many ways in the deep ocean, animals may face some 415 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 3: challenges that you might not think of, not just the 416 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 3: cold and the darkness and the pressure, but maybe resource challenges. 417 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: That's right. As pointed out by the likes of the NOAA, 418 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 2: the deep ocean is a kind of food desert. Sunlight 419 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 2: does not reach down to power photosynthesis, and so with 420 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 2: the exception of chemosynthetic communities masked in close proximity around 421 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 2: hydrothermal vents. These zones suffer from foods and this results 422 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 2: in an overall lack of density in organisms. The main 423 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 2: food sources that creatures in this region are going to 424 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 2: depend on, They're going to depend on predation among fellow inhabitants. 425 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 2: And then on the other hand, you also have the 426 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 2: periodic megafeasts that occur when you have whale fall, when 427 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 2: you have a particularly large organism that has died or 428 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 2: is killed in the waters above and sinks down steadily 429 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 2: towards the bottom. Now coming back to the Hadal zone specifically, 430 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 2: here again the absolute deepest of the dark ocean realms. 431 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 2: We're talking three point seven to six point eight miles 432 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 2: or six to eleven kilometers beneath the waves. We're also 433 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 2: talking about something that's a little different from the idea 434 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 2: of just like expansive deserts of depth. We're talking again 435 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 2: about long, narrow, topographic v shaped depressions. And so you 436 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 2: might well wonder, okay, well, given there comparatively limited horizontal footprint, 437 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 2: how often are there going to be sufficient falls, such 438 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 2: as a whale fall of some sort to feed the 439 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 2: Hatel zone. Again, if we were to think of it 440 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 2: in terms of like the surface world. Imagine you know 441 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 2: a topography and there's like a narrow canyon and they 442 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: are creatures that live at the bottom of that canyon. 443 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 2: How often is a big old condor or vulture going 444 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 2: to fall out of the sky and feed them, right? 445 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 2: So that's what I was, like, a long shot, Yeah, yeah, 446 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: I mean, it turns out maybe it's not that actually 447 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 2: that big of a big of a deal, But that 448 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 2: was my question that it was in my head, and 449 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 2: that's what led me to look around, and indeed I 450 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 2: found a paper by a desk Gupta at All from 451 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four titled Depth and Predation Regulate Consumption of 452 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 2: Dolphin carcasses in the Hadel Zone. This is from Deep 453 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 2: Sea Research Part one Oceanographic Research papers. So they point 454 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 2: out that we've known about whale flight and smaller sized 455 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: food falls for more than three decades, and with that 456 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 2: the realization that these are important food sources for particularly 457 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 2: for the deep kicking up temporary and something I mean 458 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: also kind of not so temporary, as we'll discuss sea 459 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 2: floor environments around the bounty. But such events in the 460 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 2: Hadal zone were largely unknown and unstudied. So what did 461 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 2: the researchers here decide to do. They said, well, let's 462 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 2: orchestrate a couple of them. Let's drop some dead dolphins 463 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 2: down a couple of trenches and watch and see what happens. 464 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 3: Oh okay, so this wouldn't be something that is totally artificial, 465 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 3: like it never happens in nature. It's just rare enough 466 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 3: that we know it's hard to like come across this naturally, right. 467 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 2: And I want to stress that the authors here that 468 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 2: they point out that whale falls are actually thought to 469 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 2: occur with relative frequency in the deep ocean. So my 470 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 2: question seems to largely just be dismissed, like it just 471 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 2: it occurs, and there's no reason to think that it's 472 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: especially rare. I think we have to remember that. Take 473 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: the Mariana Trench for example. Yes, it's narrow compared to 474 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: the expanse of ocean around it, but we're still talking 475 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 2: about a feature that's five hundred miles long with an 476 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 2: average width of about forty three miles. But still no 477 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: hatl whale falls had ever been recorded. So that's why 478 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, the researchers dunked a pair of 479 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 2: Fraser's dolphins, one down the Mariana Trench and the other 480 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 2: down the Philippine Basin. 481 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 3: Okay, so the reason that was not recorded before is 482 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 3: not because it doesn't happen, but because it's our limited 483 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 3: ability to look for it. Naturally happened exactly. Yeah. 484 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: Now I want to feature a little reminder here about 485 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 2: sort of the phases. There are generally four phases of 486 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 2: whale fall that are recognized by scientists. So, first of all, 487 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 2: what happens again dead whale of one size or another 488 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 2: sinks to the bottom and is now on the bottom 489 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 2: of the ocean, some up through another The first stage 490 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 2: is the mobile scavenger stage. Scavengers or necrophages arrive for 491 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 2: the soft tissues, and the resulting feast can last for 492 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 2: months or even over a year. It's going to ultimately 493 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 2: depend on the exact environment and the size of the bounty. 494 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 2: And one thing that is kind of fun to do 495 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: is to think about these two in terms of you know, 496 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 2: of a human scenario. Imagine prospectors discovering gold, oil, or 497 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 2: some other desired resource and are previously unoccupied or scarcely 498 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 2: occupied area. What sort of stages of development and then 499 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 2: abandonment end up occurring. Okay, cool, okay. So first the 500 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: mobile scavengers come. Then phase two is the enriched mint 501 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 2: opportunist stage. This is when we get heterotrophic fauna arriving 502 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 2: to colonize the surrounding sediments which are now infused with 503 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 2: organics from the whalefall as well as the exposed bones 504 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 2: of the whale. And this period can last months or 505 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: even years. The third phase is the breakdown phase. This 506 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: is when we have sulfophilic bacteria anaerobically breaking down the 507 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: lipids embedded in the bones. This results in bacterial mats 508 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 2: that provide sustenance for the various critters and this can 509 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 2: take fifty to even one hundred years. 510 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 3: Wow. 511 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 2: And then the final stage is the reef stage. This 512 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 2: is when only minerals remain, creating a hard substrate for 513 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: filter feeders such as deep sea sponges. 514 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 3: And we've discussed before how just a just a hard 515 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,479 Speaker 3: surface raised up off of the seafloor is actually something 516 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 3: that can be at a premium in the ocean. 517 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: That's right, and this is one way that new solid 518 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 2: outcroppings can be created in the long run. So again 519 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 2: coming back to this, twenty twenty one research project. They 520 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: dropped two dolphin carcasses, one down each trench, and then 521 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: they used a man submersible to observe the initial phases 522 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: of the whale fall. So nine dives were conducted over 523 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: a period of eighty six days for the Philippine Basin 524 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 2: and fifty days for the Mariana Trench. Now, the dolphins 525 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 2: involved here are quite small by whale standards, so we're 526 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 2: not talking this ultimately the same time frame as cited 527 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 2: previously here, but the stages are still in play, and 528 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 2: the researchers observed both of the initial stages, which we 529 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 2: have to also point out do tend to overlap in 530 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 2: general and overlapped here as well. So there's not a 531 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 2: hard cutof there's nobody's blowing a whistle and saying, all right, 532 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,959 Speaker 2: that's it, opportunistic scavengers, get out of here. We got 533 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 2: the next crew coming in. So what they observed with 534 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 2: phase one they had hatl amphipods, which we were just 535 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 2: talking about an example of that, as well as snail fish. 536 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: These were found occurring at the whale drop in the 537 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 2: Philippine Basin, and then just hadle amphipods. No snailfish at 538 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 2: the Mariana Trench drop. So without the predatory snail fish 539 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 2: in action, the scavengers, the scavenging amphipods at the Mariana 540 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 2: Trench location, they were able to work faster, uninterrupted in 541 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,719 Speaker 2: their feeding, and consume most of the soft tissue in 542 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 2: just a matter of days. 543 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 3: Ah okay, that's interesting. Yeah, So the presence of secondary 544 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 3: predators complicates how the initial resources are consumed. So the 545 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 3: way the dolphin falls down and you've got these amphipods, 546 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 3: you know, stripping, stripping the bones, eating all the soft tissue, 547 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,719 Speaker 3: But then you also could have predators there that limit 548 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 3: the amphipod's ability to quickly consume the carcass. 549 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 2: Right, And that's exactly how it seemed to go down 550 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 2: at the Philippine Basin site, where the scavengers ended up 551 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 2: having to take a ten day feeding break to avoid 552 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 2: the snailfish. Now they observe that the second stage only 553 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 2: attracted a few grazing organisms and quote the dispersed organic 554 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 2: matter and limited lipid content in the dolphin bones were 555 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 2: likely insufficient to sustain an active grazing community or the 556 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:16,280 Speaker 2: chemosynthetic community that typically typically follows. So larger whales would 557 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 2: presumably sustain larger environments for longer. But one of the 558 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 2: key ideas presented by the researchers here is that the 559 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 2: exact shape and timeframe of a given whale fall is 560 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 2: going to depend not only on the animals that sinks to, 561 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 2: the depths, the size of the carcass, but also on 562 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 2: the depth that it sinks to. You know, the exact location, 563 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 2: and you know what sort of like local deep ocean 564 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 2: environment is in play. 565 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 3: Oh well, that totally makes sense. The same way if 566 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 3: you like, well, i mean just on the surface, if 567 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 3: you drop a dead animal somewhere, what happens to it 568 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 3: afterwards would depend not only on what kind of the 569 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 3: food quality of that dead animal is, but where you 570 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 3: put it. So, you know, take a dead cow and 571 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,240 Speaker 3: you put it in the middle of the desert, something 572 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 3: different is going to happen to it than if you 573 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 3: take that same dead cow and you put it, you know, 574 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 3: in the middle of the forest. 575 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 2: It comes back to our example of the islands. If 576 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 2: a large condor, let's say, falls dead out of the 577 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 2: air and it lands on this island, and it lands 578 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 2: on this island, like different things are likely going to 579 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 2: eat it. Coconut crabs on one island, Komodo dragons on another, 580 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 2: rats on yet another island. 581 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, though I guess actually a better comparison 582 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 3: than what I said would be would be different versions 583 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 3: of a similar ecosystem, because here they're both talking about 584 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,439 Speaker 3: they're dropping it into the Hadel Zone, So it would 585 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 3: be like dropping it into two different forests in different 586 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 3: places on the Earth, so similar kind of environments, but 587 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 3: still different local conditions and ecology. 588 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 2: So again, outside of the vents like these and hydrothermal 589 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 2: vent communities, there's just a lot of distance down there 590 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 2: in the dark ocean, especially when you get into like 591 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 2: the Hadel Zone. And we see that in the various 592 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 2: ways that the denizens of the deep live their lives 593 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 2: in terms of reproduction, but also in terms of how 594 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 2: predators conducted their business, how they seek out their prey 595 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 2: or allow their prey sometimes to find them, or position 596 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 2: themselves in just the right place to where they will 597 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 2: run into the things they want to eat. 598 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 3: And so as we saw in the last example, sometimes 599 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 3: that might mean not just chasing after the thing you 600 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 3: want to eat, but going to where the thing you 601 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,479 Speaker 3: want to eat wants to eat. 602 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 2: Is right right, And so for the remainder of this episode, 603 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about one example of a predator 604 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 2: of the deep of the deep ocean in general, but 605 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,720 Speaker 2: also as we'll get into seemingly of the hadel zone 606 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 2: as well, and that is the general category of deep 607 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 2: sea sciphonophores. Now, we've talked about siphonophores on the show before, 608 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 2: and I know I've talked about easily the most famous 609 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 2: sciphonophoor on Adam alias Stupendium before that is the Portuguese 610 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 2: Man o War. This is not only the most famous 611 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 2: siphono four, it was the first described by science in 612 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 2: seventeen fifty eight and also essentially the only sciphono four 613 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 2: with a common name. 614 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 3: I mean, how often do you get to bring up 615 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 3: a siphonophoor in conversation? 616 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean, the thing about the Portuguese Man 617 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 2: of War is that it is a siphonofour that lives 618 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 2: at the surface of the water. It doesn't get any 619 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 2: closer to us unless it, you know, gets washed up 620 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 2: on the beach, as they may do, or if it 621 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 2: were to actually crawl up and like enter our houses 622 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 2: or something, which they're not doing. But yeah, siphonophores are 623 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 2: just so endlessly weird and wonderful. They're hydrozoans, and they 624 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 2: are so. They are aquatic invertebrates, but they are not jellyfish. 625 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 2: They are not sea jellies. And the wild thing is 626 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 2: they are not even individual organisms, but are rather colonial 627 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 2: organisms made up of genetically identical but highly specialized polyps. 628 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 2: So what you might mistake for a single organism's reproductive 629 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 2: system with one of these critters you know, say, you know, 630 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 2: is a like a digestive system, or an arm or 631 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 2: a flotation bladder. Each of these is in fact an 632 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 2: individual zooid. So each zooid is a multicellular animal unto 633 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 2: itself that exists as part of a colonial hole, each 634 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 2: comprising an essential system of that whole. So to employ 635 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 2: an imperfect comparison here, if you know voltron, Voltron is 636 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 2: a large mech mecha robot that is made out of 637 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,720 Speaker 2: smaller mecha lion robots, you know, that are piloted by humans. 638 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 2: And except in this situation, imagine that the lions that 639 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 2: form our voltron cannot exist separate from the hole. They 640 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 2: cannot live on their own, and in fact are not 641 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 2: just forming the legs and the arms and the torso 642 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 2: in the head, but are forming things like the reproductive system, 643 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 2: the vultron, digestive system and so forth. And generally the 644 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 2: layout you'll see with one of these siphonophores is you'll 645 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 2: have a section called the neumataphor, which provides buoyancy, and 646 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,399 Speaker 2: this is very obvious with the Portuguese Man of War. 647 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 2: Then you have the nectosome, which is related to swimming, 648 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 2: and the siphosome, which is related to feeding, reproductive capabilities, 649 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 2: and defense. And they may seem like floaty and docile 650 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 2: that like, and especially this is the case this may 651 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 2: have seen the case with the Portuguese Man of War 652 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 2: because they are kind of tossed about by the wind 653 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 2: and the sea and are taken to certain extents, you know, 654 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,280 Speaker 2: where the sea is sending them. But siphino forests in general, 655 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 2: they are predatory carnivores, and they are they're active predatory 656 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 2: carnivores in their own peculiar way. 657 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,359 Speaker 3: It's actually a more horrify kind of predation and even 658 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 3: than we're used to. You think a bit more like 659 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 3: the blob. 660 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's like that level of just like 661 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 2: you look at the body layout of one of these, 662 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 2: and I guess they have more of a body layout 663 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 2: than the blob, but it's still vastly inhuman and non 664 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 2: mammalion non vertebrate, and even so different from the you know, 665 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 2: invertebrate worlds of other animals. You can't just turn it 666 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 2: around and say, oh, well that's the head and now 667 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 2: it makes sense. No, Siphonophors are like weird no matter 668 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 2: how you look at them. 669 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 670 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 2: So one example of note here, the one will the 671 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 2: best defines the discussion here today is the giant sephon 672 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 2: a four or the prey a duvia. This is a 673 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 2: tube shaped sephona four that can reach lengths of up 674 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 2: to one hundred and thirty feet or forty meters. This 675 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 2: is frequently pointed out to be as long as a 676 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 2: blue whale, but also about as wide as a broom handle. What, yeah, that. 677 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 3: Just seems like an animal body of that or it 678 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 3: should not exist exactly. 679 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,240 Speaker 2: And this is like the only plays that could exist, 680 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 2: you know, where they can have they kind of have 681 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 2: the space to exist, but also they're ultimately delicate, dangerous 682 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 2: to the creatures that they consume, but delicate, and they 683 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 2: need a place where they're not going to be tossed 684 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:21,800 Speaker 2: around by the by the sea. Down here, it's relatively quiet. 685 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 2: It's long tube like body maneuvers via pulsating meducie, and 686 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 2: one end features a gas filled noumataphor to provide buoyancy. 687 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,760 Speaker 3: Okay, so it's got kind of a bubble that helps 688 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 3: it negotiate where it floats to, and then it's got 689 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,879 Speaker 3: the pulsating you said, maneuvers with meducie. What are these 690 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 3: threadlike or hair like things that project off of it? 691 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, a little little yeah, kind of wiggly bits, And 692 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 2: the overall appearance of the creature, especially in sketches, is 693 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,760 Speaker 2: kind of like a weird alien like jelly pelvis bone 694 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,839 Speaker 2: that would be that would be the buoyancy providing noumataphor, 695 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 2: and then it looks like there's kind of a noodle 696 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 2: rib spiny length growing out of it. It reminds me 697 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 2: a bit of illustrations of yokai that I've seen, particularly 698 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 2: the rokuro Kubi yokai, where it's like a woman with 699 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,800 Speaker 2: a long snakelike neck, except in this case there's no body. 700 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 2: It's just it's just a strange creature to behold. 701 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 3: Super creepy, Yes, it's repulsion attraction reaction I'm having, like 702 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 3: I don't want to get near it, but also want 703 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 3: to wrap it around myself. 704 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, Now, in a vast and sparsely populated environment, 705 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 2: you've got to be swift, you got to be a patient, 706 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 2: or you've got to be attractive. And I guess the 707 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 2: giant Savana four seems to engage in a little bit 708 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 2: of both patient and attractive because, on one hand, it 709 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 2: uses bright blue bioluminescence to attract prey, and I'm to 710 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 2: understand that they, like most siphonophores, are also fairly selective 711 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 2: in this case, grab vitating to areas where favored prey 712 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 2: are present or will be present. You know, there's some 713 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 2: sort of they're going to go where the food is 714 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 2: going to be, and then it can grab with its 715 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 2: tentacles and sting with its nomaticists before passing the bits 716 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 2: of now food its prey onto the digestive zooids that 717 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 2: will carry on digestion. 718 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 3: I'm curious, do you know why the bioluminescence works to 719 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 3: attract prey, Like, what are the prey trying to get out? 720 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 3: Or do the prey eat something that normally glows blue 721 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 3: as well. 722 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,440 Speaker 2: Well. I should first of all stress that blue green 723 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,280 Speaker 2: light this tends to be the standard among bioluminescent animals 724 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 2: in the deep. Sometimes red light is used for a 725 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 2: different reason than we may get into later on. As 726 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,240 Speaker 2: for what the siphonof war in question here is doing, 727 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 2: what is it mimicking? According to the Nterey Bay Aquarium's 728 00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 2: Wonderful overview page on bioluminescence, there are siphonophores that use 729 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 2: this kind of bioluminescent lure to mimic the appearance of copods. 730 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 2: This is a common prey organism for deep sea fishes, 731 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,439 Speaker 2: and so that seems to be what's probably going on here, 732 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 2: mimicking one prey animal to attract in predators which then 733 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 2: become the prey. Now, when it comes to the exact 734 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 2: zones that we find the giants, I found a four 735 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 2: in a lot of resources out there are pointing to 736 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 2: the zones above the Hatel zone, so still the deep 737 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,840 Speaker 2: deep ocean, but not the deepest trenches. And yet on 738 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,040 Speaker 2: the other hand, there is also evidence that they do 739 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 2: go into the Hatel waters or do reside there. Again, 740 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,880 Speaker 2: we have to remind ourselves that we don't know everything 741 00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,400 Speaker 2: about these deep ocean trenches. They are mysterious places, and 742 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 2: a lot of those mysteries remain. A lot more research 743 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 2: and exploration is required, but there is some evidence that 744 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 2: we do find giant sciphonophors or some type of sciphonophoor 745 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,719 Speaker 2: some related species in these waters, as we'll explain here. 746 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 2: And I was reading about this in a twenty twenty 747 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,279 Speaker 2: one edition of the Journal of Plankton Research paper by 748 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 2: Alan J. Jamison and Thomas D. Linley, and they said 749 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 2: that we have observed a probable sciphonophour within the Mariana 750 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,319 Speaker 2: Trench at a depth of eighty eight meters, which is 751 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 2: well within the Hadel zone. And I've included here for 752 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,880 Speaker 2: you as well, Joe. It's it's image C of the 753 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,359 Speaker 2: ABC image block that we're looking at here. 754 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:52,240 Speaker 3: Ooh, okay, so we're looking at a cameras have captured 755 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 3: some stuff from the ocean floor and image C. It 756 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 3: just looks like we're looking out into this blue water 757 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,319 Speaker 3: that's illuminated with our official light, of course, and then 758 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 3: there's something that looks almost like a constellation of little 759 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 3: little star like freckles kind of zipping around in a 760 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:09,280 Speaker 3: strange arrangement. 761 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, what we're seeing here, apparently is that trailing link 762 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 2: the siphosome. This is the part that is going to 763 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 2: ultimately be fishing for prey. The net is out, as 764 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 2: the authors here describe it. Again, we don't have enough 765 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 2: evidence here to really tell exactly what species we're looking at, 766 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 2: or you know, to make a case it is a 767 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 2: new species, but they say that it's very likely a 768 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 2: relative of the giant Sephono four, and it's probably a 769 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,680 Speaker 2: member of the same suborder. Full identification could not be made, 770 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 2: but this evidence does seem to indicate that known and 771 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 2: maybe unknown species of siphonophores do hunt in hatel waters. 772 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 3: That's a whole other kind of deep sea horror. 773 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 2: And Yeah, one of the things I love about the 774 00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 2: Sephonophores is that we I think, by you know, by 775 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,719 Speaker 2: this point, I mean, everyone's seen a lot of like 776 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 2: really cool images of deep sea fish with their you know, 777 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:12,360 Speaker 2: translucent bodies, their needle like teeth and bioluminescent bulges and 778 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,799 Speaker 2: other strange properties. You're gonna make them very frightening. But 779 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,720 Speaker 2: it's almost like that's an extrapolation of a fish, and 780 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,320 Speaker 2: and we're prepared for that, but we're sometimes less prepared 781 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 2: for just how again how weird seiphonophores are, even though 782 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 2: we've also find siphonophores again at the surface of the 783 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 2: ocean up there with the Portuguese Man of Wars. But yeah, 784 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 2: they're these, like the giant siphonophor is just such a 785 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 2: strange creature. And the idea that there are things like 786 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 2: this just floating around and the deep ocean, uh, you know, 787 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,640 Speaker 2: making their way towards the places where their favored prey 788 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,160 Speaker 2: are found, and then casting their bioluminescent net in order 789 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 2: to draw them in and then sting them as they 790 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,360 Speaker 2: brush up against them, and then pass them on to 791 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 2: their you know, specific colonial zooids that are going to 792 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 2: complete the digestion task. 793 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 3: You'd have to think if one of those things get you, 794 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 3: you'd just be like, fair enough, digest me. Well, that 795 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,400 Speaker 3: is a truly fascinating organism, and I think we're going 796 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,759 Speaker 3: to have to call it there for today on part 797 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,120 Speaker 3: one of this series, but we will be back with more. 798 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,560 Speaker 3: We're not done talking about predation in the deepest parts 799 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,959 Speaker 3: of the ocean. We'll have at least one more part 800 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,120 Speaker 3: for you, maybe more. 801 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,920 Speaker 2: That's right, we'll be back with maybe with some expected 802 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 2: cases of deep sea predators, but also perhaps some unexpected 803 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,239 Speaker 2: examples as well. All Right, in the meantime, we just 804 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,400 Speaker 2: want to remind everyone that's stuffed auble. Your Mind is 805 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 2: primarily a science and culture podcast, with core episodes on 806 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,799 Speaker 2: Tuesdays and Thursdays. We air a short form episode on Wednesdays, 807 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 2: and on Fridays. We set aside most series concerns to 808 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 2: just talk about a weird film here on Weird House Cinema. 809 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,880 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 810 00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 811 00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to su 812 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,360 Speaker 3: us to topic for the future, or just to say hello, 813 00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,399 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 814 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 3: your Mind dot com. 815 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,080 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 816 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,919 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 817 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:36,440 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.