1 00:00:15,430 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: Pushkin. An early spring day. A country lane in Lancashire, England, 2 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: in the shadow of looming Pendle Hill with its bare 3 00:00:33,860 --> 00:00:40,940 Speaker 1: moorland slopes. The year is 1612. A different world. A 4 00:00:40,980 --> 00:00:44,900 Speaker 1: middle-aged man and a teenage girl are about to pass 5 00:00:44,970 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: each other The man has a pack on his back. 6 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: He's a peddler, a kind of 1612 answer to Amazon, 7 00:00:53,580 --> 00:00:57,860 Speaker 1: a one-man walking warehouse bringing wares to rural people who 8 00:00:57,940 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: can't easily get to a shop. And the teenage girl? 9 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:09,890 Speaker 1: Her grandma is a notorious local witch. What happens on 10 00:01:09,970 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: this lane will cause the deaths of ten people, and 11 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: will still bring tourists to Lancashire over 400 years later, 12 00:01:19,950 --> 00:01:27,170 Speaker 1: especially at Halloween. So, what does happen? It's hard to 13 00:01:27,190 --> 00:01:31,890 Speaker 1: be certain. Our sources are questionable, for reasons we'll get to. 14 00:01:32,390 --> 00:01:36,430 Speaker 1: But the encounter goes something like this. The young woman 15 00:01:36,570 --> 00:01:39,580 Speaker 1: tells the man she wants to buy some pins. He 16 00:01:39,620 --> 00:01:41,740 Speaker 1: has pins in his pack, it's the kind of thing 17 00:01:41,780 --> 00:01:44,700 Speaker 1: a peddler carries... but he refuses to stop and get 18 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: them out. Why? Perhaps he assumes that the young woman, Alison, 19 00:01:51,100 --> 00:01:53,940 Speaker 1: wants the pins on credit and he doesn't trust her 20 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:58,820 Speaker 1: to pay. Perhaps he knows who Alison's grandma is and 21 00:01:58,860 --> 00:02:02,940 Speaker 1: that witches use pins to curse people by stabbing them 22 00:02:02,980 --> 00:02:08,150 Speaker 1: into crude clay figurines. The peddler takes up the story. 23 00:02:08,940 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: She was very earnest with me for pins, Alison adds. 24 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,710 Speaker 1: He sturdily answered that he would not lose his pack, whereupon, 25 00:02:18,150 --> 00:02:22,550 Speaker 1: the peddler continued, she seemed to be very angry. The 26 00:02:22,570 --> 00:02:25,910 Speaker 1: peddler trudges on with his pack and gets a couple 27 00:02:25,930 --> 00:02:29,950 Speaker 1: of hundred yards down the lane, unaware that Alison is 28 00:02:30,050 --> 00:02:38,830 Speaker 1: now conferring with a vicious-looking, talking dog. The dog asks Alizon, 29 00:02:39,590 --> 00:02:45,230 Speaker 1: what wouldst thou have me do to yonder man? She replies, 30 00:02:45,970 --> 00:02:48,850 Speaker 1: what canst thou do to him? The dog offers, I 31 00:02:49,850 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: can lame him. Alizon says, lame him. Down the lane, 32 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: the peddler suddenly collapses, lame in great extremity, his entire 33 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,500 Speaker 1: left side useless, his leg, his arms. The left side 34 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:14,030 Speaker 1: of his face deformed. He can't speak. And then, standing 35 00:03:14,190 --> 00:03:19,570 Speaker 1: over him, he sees a great black dog with very fearful, 36 00:03:19,710 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: fiery eyes, great teeth, and a terrible countenance looking me 37 00:03:24,150 --> 00:03:30,660 Speaker 1: in the face, whereat I was very sore afraid. I'm 38 00:03:30,700 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: Tim Harford, and you're listening to Cautionary Tales. Witchcraft was 39 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: real in England in 1612. Just ask the King of England, 40 00:04:09,340 --> 00:04:13,620 Speaker 1: King James, who literally wrote the book on it. Demonology. 41 00:04:14,900 --> 00:04:19,810 Speaker 1: Such assaults of Satan are most certainly practiced, the King 42 00:04:19,850 --> 00:04:24,970 Speaker 1: assured his readers. Witches, those detestable slaves of the devil, 43 00:04:25,410 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: deserve most severely to be punished. The King himself had 44 00:04:31,100 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: been subject to an assault of Satan after he decided 45 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:39,170 Speaker 1: to marry a princess from Denmark. First, When his bride-to-be 46 00:04:39,290 --> 00:04:42,150 Speaker 1: tried to sail to Britain, she had to turn back 47 00:04:42,270 --> 00:04:45,230 Speaker 1: as the weather at sea was too bad. It happened again. 48 00:04:46,130 --> 00:04:52,740 Speaker 1: And again. Six times. Then, when James himself sailed over 49 00:04:52,780 --> 00:04:57,340 Speaker 1: to pick her up, his ship, too, encountered terrible storms. 50 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: He reached for the obvious explanation. Witchcraft. a suspect was 51 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:12,210 Speaker 1: soon identified, a young maidservant with a noble family in Scotland. 52 00:05:13,150 --> 00:05:18,490 Speaker 1: Placed in thumbscrews, she named other Scottish witches, including the 53 00:05:18,590 --> 00:05:23,010 Speaker 1: wise wife from Keith, who refused at first to confess. 54 00:05:23,970 --> 00:05:28,780 Speaker 1: She too was tortured. A rope twisted tight around her 55 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:32,140 Speaker 1: head and her pubic hair shaved off to reveal a 56 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,500 Speaker 1: suspicious mark near her genitals. Clearly, the devil had sucked 57 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: on her. She admitted everything. She had kissed the devil's buttocks. 58 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: She had brewed up a potion from Adder's skin and 59 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,190 Speaker 1: roasted toad. She had caused the storms by sacrificing a cat. 60 00:05:51,310 --> 00:06:00,930 Speaker 1: King James had her strangled and her body burned. Having 61 00:06:01,070 --> 00:06:05,820 Speaker 1: survived this demonic attempt at regicide, James made a careful 62 00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:10,860 Speaker 1: study of how witchcraft works. Such persons as are in 63 00:06:10,980 --> 00:06:15,780 Speaker 1: great misery and poverty, wrote the king, the devil allures 64 00:06:15,820 --> 00:06:21,910 Speaker 1: to follow him by promising unto them great riches. Misery 65 00:06:21,950 --> 00:06:25,430 Speaker 1: and poverty were common enough in Lancashire in the time 66 00:06:25,470 --> 00:06:29,110 Speaker 1: of James's reign. It would be no surprise then if 67 00:06:29,290 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: witchcraft were common too. The peddler said, who collapsed on 68 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:38,980 Speaker 1: the lane, lame in great extremity, was helped to an alehouse. 69 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: A message was sent to his adult son, who worked 70 00:06:42,740 --> 00:06:47,420 Speaker 1: in a nearby town. Your father is speechless, it said. 71 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,590 Speaker 1: The left side lamed, all save his eye. From the 72 00:06:52,630 --> 00:06:56,110 Speaker 1: description of his symptoms, we can reasonably assume that the 73 00:06:56,170 --> 00:07:00,310 Speaker 1: unfortunate peddler had likely had a stroke. By the time 74 00:07:00,430 --> 00:07:04,290 Speaker 1: his son arrived at the alehouse... his speech was starting 75 00:07:04,350 --> 00:07:08,790 Speaker 1: to recover. He told his son the story, his refusal 76 00:07:08,830 --> 00:07:13,950 Speaker 1: to sell pins, Alison's angry reaction, his collapse, and they 77 00:07:14,010 --> 00:07:23,260 Speaker 1: reached for the obvious explanation. Witchcraft. The accusation reached the 78 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:27,700 Speaker 1: local magistrate, an eminent gentleman, whose role combined the work 79 00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: we'd now associate with both police and prosecutor. he interviewed 80 00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:37,460 Speaker 1: the recovering peddler, who apparently told him about that great 81 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:44,660 Speaker 1: black dog with its fearful, fiery eyes. The magistrate had 82 00:07:44,970 --> 00:07:56,350 Speaker 1: Alison arrested. Luckily for Alison, under English law, she wasn't 83 00:07:56,390 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: supposed to be tortured like the Scottish witches. Still... It 84 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: was 1612. She won't have been read her rights and 85 00:08:05,060 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: offered a lawyer. Alison, it seems, readily confessed to instructing 86 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: the talking black dog and told the magistrate about the 87 00:08:14,540 --> 00:08:17,740 Speaker 1: first time the dog had appeared to her. He'd made 88 00:08:17,780 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: her an offer. Give me your soul. And in return, 89 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: he'd give her the power to do anything she would. 90 00:08:27,780 --> 00:08:31,860 Speaker 1: Alison agreed. They sealed the deal. by means of the 91 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:37,310 Speaker 1: black dog sucking on Alizon's breast a little below the paps. 92 00:08:41,070 --> 00:08:44,390 Speaker 1: At this point, I should pause to answer a question. 93 00:08:45,490 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: How do we know all this? It's one thing when 94 00:08:48,500 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: witches attempt to kill a king, you'd expect that to 95 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,730 Speaker 1: make it into the history books. but disputes between peddlers 96 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: and beggars on country lanes tend not to have been 97 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: recorded for posterity. Our information comes from an account written later, 98 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:10,390 Speaker 1: by a legal clerk called Thomas Potts. The Wonderful Discovery 99 00:09:10,590 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: of Witches in the County of Lancashire. It's a deeply 100 00:09:15,980 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: suspect source. Potts wrote his account at the request of 101 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: the judges who later heard the case the magistrate built. 102 00:09:24,460 --> 00:09:26,930 Speaker 1: No doubt the judges will have wanted to look good 103 00:09:26,990 --> 00:09:33,230 Speaker 1: to the king. Their clerk will hardly be a reliable narrator. Still, 104 00:09:33,910 --> 00:09:38,770 Speaker 1: suspect or not, the wonderful discovery is a rare insight 105 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: into everyday provincial life in 1612. We hear, for example, 106 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,060 Speaker 1: what Alison supposedly told the magistrate about the powers of 107 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:53,690 Speaker 1: her grandma, the notorious witch known locally as Old Demdike. 108 00:09:54,630 --> 00:09:57,490 Speaker 1: Like the time Alison begged a jug full of milk 109 00:09:57,870 --> 00:10:00,990 Speaker 1: and brought it to her grandma, half an hour later 110 00:10:01,290 --> 00:10:04,180 Speaker 1: there was butter to the quantity of a quarter of 111 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,820 Speaker 1: a pound in the said milk, and the quantity of 112 00:10:06,860 --> 00:10:12,820 Speaker 1: the said milk still remaining. Alison's grandma had magicked up butter. 113 00:10:14,740 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: She told young Alison how she too could gain such powers. 114 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,930 Speaker 1: She did sundry times advise me to let a devil 115 00:10:24,090 --> 00:10:28,010 Speaker 1: suck at some part of me. But the grandma had 116 00:10:28,070 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: a rival. Another woman aged about 80, Old Chattox. The 117 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:40,820 Speaker 1: two old matriarchs vied for trade as cunning folk. Many 118 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,010 Speaker 1: communities had them, people with powers. You'd go to them 119 00:10:45,530 --> 00:10:48,850 Speaker 1: if you'd lost something, or had it stolen, or you'd 120 00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:52,530 Speaker 1: been bewitched, or you were ill. Only the rich could 121 00:10:52,570 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: afford a doctor. Anyway, such was medical knowledge that a 122 00:10:56,340 --> 00:10:59,970 Speaker 1: doctor might do you more harm than good. The cunning 123 00:11:00,090 --> 00:11:05,260 Speaker 1: folk used charms and spells, and for illness, herbal remedies, 124 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: some of which even helped. Cunning folk were respected, but 125 00:11:11,420 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: also feared. Upset them, it was believed, and they might 126 00:11:15,900 --> 00:11:22,530 Speaker 1: turn their powers against you. Alizon told the magistrate about 127 00:11:22,570 --> 00:11:25,750 Speaker 1: a farmer who'd asked her grandma's help to heal a 128 00:11:25,810 --> 00:11:30,370 Speaker 1: sick cow. The cow died. and we hear that Alison 129 00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:35,010 Speaker 1: did verily thinketh that her said grandmother did bewitch the 130 00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:40,090 Speaker 1: said cow to death. Cunning folk could even operate a 131 00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:45,210 Speaker 1: kind of protection racket. Nice cow you've got there. Shame 132 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:50,660 Speaker 1: if something were to happen. Alison's own father was so 133 00:11:50,740 --> 00:11:54,300 Speaker 1: afraid of old Chattox that he gave her eight pounds 134 00:11:54,340 --> 00:11:57,900 Speaker 1: of oatmeal a year so she wouldn't harm him. Ben. 135 00:11:58,750 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: One year, he didn't, and he died, convinced on his 136 00:12:04,420 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: deathbed that old Chattox was to blame. As the magistrate 137 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,670 Speaker 1: extracted these stories from Alizon, he began to realise that 138 00:12:18,130 --> 00:12:22,510 Speaker 1: Lancashire was home to more detestable slaves of the devil 139 00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:26,950 Speaker 1: than he could have imagined. He had Alison's grandma, her 140 00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:32,090 Speaker 1: rival Old Chattox, and Old Chattox's daughter rounded up and 141 00:12:32,210 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: sent with Alison to the dungeons in Lancaster Castle. But 142 00:12:37,380 --> 00:12:41,340 Speaker 1: the story of the Pendle Witches was only getting started. 143 00:12:49,490 --> 00:13:01,990 Speaker 1: Cautionary Tales will be back after the break. Visit Lancashire 144 00:13:02,010 --> 00:13:04,770 Speaker 1: today and you could take a stroll up Pendle Hill, 145 00:13:05,310 --> 00:13:09,330 Speaker 1: a five-mile circular from the car park with 400 yards 146 00:13:09,370 --> 00:13:13,130 Speaker 1: of elevation. On a clear day, from the top, you 147 00:13:13,150 --> 00:13:17,150 Speaker 1: might see Blackpool Tower. In the little village of Newchurch 148 00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:21,050 Speaker 1: in Pendle, you could visit the gift shop, Witches Galore, 149 00:13:21,330 --> 00:13:25,990 Speaker 1: to buy yourself a commemorative Pendle Witches mug or tea towel. 150 00:13:26,490 --> 00:13:30,610 Speaker 1: or fridge magnet, all depicting a witch in traditional garb, 151 00:13:31,290 --> 00:13:35,590 Speaker 1: broomstick and pointy hat. You could stop for a pint 152 00:13:35,630 --> 00:13:38,830 Speaker 1: at the pub, the Pendle Witch. The reviews are good. 153 00:13:39,410 --> 00:13:43,830 Speaker 1: Super friendly staff and a quirky witch-themed beer garden. And 154 00:13:43,870 --> 00:13:46,670 Speaker 1: then you could go to the village of Roughly, down 155 00:13:46,690 --> 00:13:50,370 Speaker 1: the road from the Pendle Valley Caravan Park, and take 156 00:13:50,430 --> 00:13:54,470 Speaker 1: a selfie with a statue of Alice Nutter. lovingly sculpted 157 00:13:54,510 --> 00:13:58,530 Speaker 1: in brass and steel by a local artist. The Alice 158 00:13:58,610 --> 00:14:04,660 Speaker 1: Nutter statue was unveiled in 2012, marking the 400th anniversary 159 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:10,940 Speaker 1: of the Pendle Witches' trial. So, who was Alice Nutter? 160 00:14:13,550 --> 00:14:19,170 Speaker 1: Back in 1612, Alison and her grandma, Old Demdike, had 161 00:14:19,190 --> 00:14:22,950 Speaker 1: been locked up in Lancaster Castle. A few days later, 162 00:14:23,410 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: A gathering takes place at old Demdike's house, hosted by 163 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:35,820 Speaker 1: Demdike's daughter, Alizon's mother. Present are assorted relatives, friends and neighbours. Or, 164 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,460 Speaker 1: as the legal clerk Thomas Potts describes them in The 165 00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:45,350 Speaker 1: Wonderful Discovery, all the most dangerous, wicked and damnable witches 166 00:14:45,510 --> 00:14:51,540 Speaker 1: in the country, far and near. Potts, remember, is writing 167 00:14:51,580 --> 00:14:54,300 Speaker 1: at the behest of the judges who heard the case. 168 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,540 Speaker 1: He wants to justify their verdict. With great cheer and 169 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: merry company, Potts tells us, this great assembly resolves on 170 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:10,050 Speaker 1: a plan of action to free their imprisoned comrades. The 171 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,490 Speaker 1: jailer shall be slain. The castle of Lancaster to be 172 00:15:14,630 --> 00:15:22,650 Speaker 1: blown up. It's unclear how exactly Potts thought these damnable 173 00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:26,250 Speaker 1: witches would blow up the castle, but he was delighted 174 00:15:26,330 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: to report that their scheme was thwarted when some notice 175 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: of this meeting comes to the attention of the local magistrate. 176 00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:38,900 Speaker 1: He has eight more people rounded up for allegedly being 177 00:15:38,940 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: at this great assembly. They include Alison's mother and brother 178 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,610 Speaker 1: and various local associates of the family. one of these 179 00:15:48,670 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: people is not like the others. Her name is Alice Nutter. 180 00:15:59,180 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: In his book Demonology, King James had explained how the 181 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: devil allures such persons as are in great misery and poverty. 182 00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: While that described most of the unfortunate souls the Lancashire 183 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:18,500 Speaker 1: magistrate had arrested for witchcraft, it did not describe Alice Nutter. 184 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: Thomas Potts tells us she was a rich woman, had 185 00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: a great estate, and children of good hope. And yet, 186 00:16:27,090 --> 00:16:31,110 Speaker 1: here she was, confined to a cell in Lancaster Castle, 187 00:16:31,530 --> 00:16:37,250 Speaker 1: accused of murder by witchcraft. The alleged victim was a landowner. 188 00:16:37,870 --> 00:16:42,150 Speaker 1: The story of the murder went like this. Old Demdike 189 00:16:42,570 --> 00:16:47,380 Speaker 1: asked him for a penny. He refused her. Later... He died. 190 00:16:50,010 --> 00:16:55,430 Speaker 1: The explanation was obvious and explicitly confirmed by Alizon's brother. 191 00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:59,050 Speaker 1: He told the magistrate how his grandma had got her 192 00:16:59,090 --> 00:17:03,690 Speaker 1: revenge by bewitching the man to death. He also mentioned 193 00:17:04,210 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: Alice Nutter as being somehow involved in this bewitchment. King 194 00:17:10,060 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: James admits in Demonology that even the rich might sell 195 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:20,060 Speaker 1: their soul... If they burn in a desperate desire of revenge, 196 00:17:20,940 --> 00:17:24,980 Speaker 1: the devil may promise them to get their turn satisfied 197 00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:30,210 Speaker 1: to their heart's contentment. Did Alice Nutter then have some 198 00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:35,070 Speaker 1: burningly desperate desire to revenge herself against the man she 199 00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:40,370 Speaker 1: supposedly helped bewitch to death? It seems not. In the 200 00:17:40,550 --> 00:17:44,970 Speaker 1: common opinion of the world, says Thomas Potts, Alice Nutter 201 00:17:45,010 --> 00:17:49,100 Speaker 1: was considered a woman of good temper, free from envy 202 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,460 Speaker 1: or malice. Potts doesn't tell us much more about Alice Nutter. 203 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,180 Speaker 1: What did she say when it was put to her 204 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:05,990 Speaker 1: that by force of witchcrafts she feloniously did kill and murder? Nothing, apparently. 205 00:18:06,790 --> 00:18:12,260 Speaker 1: She didn't confess. She didn't defend herself. the judge's clerk 206 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,830 Speaker 1: seems almost embarrassed by how little he has to go 207 00:18:15,970 --> 00:18:19,870 Speaker 1: on when recounting her case. Oh, he's sure she committed 208 00:18:20,250 --> 00:18:25,770 Speaker 1: murder and many other vile and damnable practices, but as 209 00:18:25,810 --> 00:18:31,060 Speaker 1: to her motive, he can only limply say, I know not. 210 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,620 Speaker 1: It's a mystery. A woman of apparently flawless character is 211 00:18:37,660 --> 00:18:42,510 Speaker 1: accused of vague but murderous black magic, She has no 212 00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:48,390 Speaker 1: apparent motive and she remains silent when charged. No wonder 213 00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:54,740 Speaker 1: the enigmatic Alice Nutter exerts such fascination that tourists head 214 00:18:54,820 --> 00:18:58,020 Speaker 1: to Ruff Lee to take a selfie with her statue. 215 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,500 Speaker 1: We can imagine, of course, what might have happened. In 1848, 216 00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:11,250 Speaker 1: the writer William Harrison Ainsworth published a best-selling historical novel 217 00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:15,550 Speaker 1: titled the Lancashire Witches, after visiting Pendle and hearing the 218 00:19:15,610 --> 00:19:20,850 Speaker 1: stories the locals passed down from generation to generation. In 219 00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:25,070 Speaker 1: his telling, the wealthy Alice is engaged in a property 220 00:19:25,130 --> 00:19:29,330 Speaker 1: dispute with a local magistrate who cynically takes the chance 221 00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:33,940 Speaker 1: to ease her aside by having her accused of witchcraft. 222 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,390 Speaker 1: It's a fun idea, but we'll never know, right? It 223 00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:44,940 Speaker 1: all happened over 400 years ago. There's no chance now 224 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,060 Speaker 1: of any new evidence coming to light. Or is there? 225 00:19:55,380 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: In 2023, the author Charlotte Meredith... published a fascinating book 226 00:20:01,740 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: on the Pendle Witches. For the most part, it draws 227 00:20:05,220 --> 00:20:09,390 Speaker 1: on the same source material as other authors, primarily Thomas 228 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,070 Speaker 1: Potts and the wonderful discovery of witches in the county 229 00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: of Lancashire. But Meredith has also uncovered never-heard-before testimonies from 230 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: several of the key protagonists. As I tell you about 231 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: these new testimonies, see if you can guess where Charlotte 232 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:31,490 Speaker 1: Meredith came by them. We'll start with Alice Nutter. The 233 00:20:31,550 --> 00:20:35,350 Speaker 1: true story is nowhere near as dramatic as William Harrison 234 00:20:35,490 --> 00:20:40,250 Speaker 1: Ainsworth's imaginings. Alice was simply in the wrong place at 235 00:20:40,290 --> 00:20:44,850 Speaker 1: the wrong time. She'd known old Demdike for years. She 236 00:20:45,030 --> 00:20:48,620 Speaker 1: used the old woman's herbal remedies to treat arthritis in 237 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: her feet and lower back. They helped, and she gladly 238 00:20:52,580 --> 00:20:56,340 Speaker 1: paid for them. When she heard old Demdike had been arrested, 239 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: she went to the house with a gift of food 240 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,870 Speaker 1: for the woman's family. That was all. Did she help 241 00:21:02,980 --> 00:21:07,870 Speaker 1: to feloniously kill and murder the man who'd refused old 242 00:21:08,010 --> 00:21:12,350 Speaker 1: Demdike a penny? Of course not. She had no reason 243 00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: to want the man dead. She barely knew him, beyond 244 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: seeing each other at church. So why not speak up 245 00:21:20,020 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: to defend herself? She simply felt powerless, she said in 246 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: this newly discovered testimony. Only God had the power to 247 00:21:29,140 --> 00:21:34,020 Speaker 1: help me now. There's a new account from Alison, too. 248 00:21:34,670 --> 00:21:38,710 Speaker 1: What really happened on the lane with the peddler. Yes, 249 00:21:38,930 --> 00:21:42,790 Speaker 1: she'd asked for pins, he'd refused, and she'd got angry 250 00:21:42,830 --> 00:21:46,130 Speaker 1: and shouted at him. But she hadn't set a talking 251 00:21:46,270 --> 00:21:49,230 Speaker 1: black dog on him. She'd just turned and walked away. 252 00:21:50,170 --> 00:21:53,810 Speaker 1: After a while, she heard raised voices, turned back to look, 253 00:21:54,370 --> 00:21:56,470 Speaker 1: and saw the peddler on the ground with other men 254 00:21:56,530 --> 00:22:01,410 Speaker 1: helping him. She didn't give it much thought. Later, she 255 00:22:01,450 --> 00:22:05,670 Speaker 1: learned how unwell the peddler was, and that people were 256 00:22:05,710 --> 00:22:10,740 Speaker 1: gossiping she'd done it. At first, she was worried. Could 257 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:16,260 Speaker 1: her anger really have lamed the peddler? She hadn't meant to, 258 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: but she did believe that some people had the power 259 00:22:19,780 --> 00:22:24,220 Speaker 1: to do things like that. Might she have that power? 260 00:22:25,220 --> 00:22:29,670 Speaker 1: She began to feel strangely good about herself. As a 261 00:22:29,710 --> 00:22:32,950 Speaker 1: young woman, she did find that people were often dismissive 262 00:22:33,030 --> 00:22:37,610 Speaker 1: of her, like the peddler. Maybe they'd respect her now. 263 00:22:39,310 --> 00:22:42,690 Speaker 1: As for the peddler... His new testimony reveals he hadn't 264 00:22:42,730 --> 00:22:46,310 Speaker 1: meant to treat Alison dismissively at all. By the time 265 00:22:46,370 --> 00:22:49,710 Speaker 1: he met her on the lane, he already wasn't feeling right. 266 00:22:50,670 --> 00:22:52,810 Speaker 1: That's why he said that he wouldn't loose his pack, 267 00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:56,450 Speaker 1: not because he thought Alison was begging, he just wanted 268 00:22:56,470 --> 00:23:00,050 Speaker 1: to get to the alehouse so he could rest. By 269 00:23:00,090 --> 00:23:03,860 Speaker 1: the time he came to again, after his collapse, he 270 00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: was alarmed to discover that everyone had already decided he'd 271 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:12,970 Speaker 1: been bewitched. It's not that the peddler doubted such things 272 00:23:13,030 --> 00:23:17,210 Speaker 1: were possible. He just didn't think it had happened to him. 273 00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:22,210 Speaker 1: He'd felt poorly before that brief encounter with Alison, but 274 00:23:22,250 --> 00:23:25,330 Speaker 1: the magistrate who interviewed him was keen to get a 275 00:23:25,370 --> 00:23:30,210 Speaker 1: witch convicted. He offered the peddler money to testify, reminding 276 00:23:30,270 --> 00:23:33,530 Speaker 1: him that there was no guarantee his health would recover 277 00:23:33,610 --> 00:23:38,170 Speaker 1: enough to ever let him work again. The peddler agreed. 278 00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:42,630 Speaker 1: But he regretted it when he saw Alison in court, 279 00:23:43,250 --> 00:23:48,100 Speaker 1: desperately afraid because she knew she faced the gallows. He 280 00:23:48,140 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: was consumed with guilt for the rest of his life. 281 00:23:54,020 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: Have you guessed yet where the author Charlotte Meredith found 282 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,570 Speaker 1: these new accounts? Let me quote from the introduction to 283 00:24:02,610 --> 00:24:07,470 Speaker 1: her book. There is life after death. The best way 284 00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:10,460 Speaker 1: to learn the truth about the Pendle Witches is to 285 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,100 Speaker 1: ask them what happened. Thanks to the kind and patient 286 00:24:15,260 --> 00:24:20,380 Speaker 1: assistance of an experienced spiritualist medium, who also happens to 287 00:24:20,420 --> 00:24:24,950 Speaker 1: be the author's mother, it is time for the Pendle 288 00:24:25,020 --> 00:24:31,730 Speaker 1: Witches to be heard. Yes, the author, Charlotte Meredith, has 289 00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:35,190 Speaker 1: written an impressively sourced account of the Pendle Witch Trials 290 00:24:35,970 --> 00:24:38,650 Speaker 1: with all the endnotes and bibliography you'd want to see 291 00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:42,510 Speaker 1: in a proper work of history, and augmented it by 292 00:24:42,550 --> 00:24:48,810 Speaker 1: having her mum talk to the dead. I said that 293 00:24:48,810 --> 00:24:53,290 Speaker 1: 1612 was a different world, a world of strange beliefs. 294 00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:58,300 Speaker 1: But perhaps we too have our own strange beliefs to 295 00:24:58,340 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 1: contend with. And there's one more thing I need you 296 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: to know about Charlotte Meredith. cautionary tales will return. In 2022, 297 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,590 Speaker 1: on International Women's Day, the then First Minister of Scotland, 298 00:25:27,950 --> 00:25:33,130 Speaker 1: Nicola Sturgeon, gave a speech to the Scottish Parliament. Thousands 299 00:25:33,170 --> 00:25:37,930 Speaker 1: of Scottish people, she explained. The vast majority women stood 300 00:25:38,030 --> 00:25:42,970 Speaker 1: trial for witchcraft in the late 1500s, 1600s and early 301 00:25:43,070 --> 00:25:48,990 Speaker 1: 1700s until the law was finally amended. Scottish women, like 302 00:25:49,010 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: the wise wife from Keith, tortured until she confessed that 303 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: she'd colluded with the devil to cause the storm that 304 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: hit King James's ship. These women, Nicola Sturgeon said, were 305 00:26:01,980 --> 00:26:10,890 Speaker 1: not witches. They were poor, or different, or vulnerable, or, well, women. 306 00:26:11,850 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 2: It was injustice on a colossal scale, driven at least 307 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 2: in part by misogyny in its most literal sense, hatred 308 00:26:21,020 --> 00:26:21,420 Speaker 2: of women. 309 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: Sturgeon was responding to a petition asking for an apology 310 00:26:27,170 --> 00:26:31,730 Speaker 1: and a pardon for the Scottish witches. The pardon, said Sturgeon, 311 00:26:32,010 --> 00:26:36,410 Speaker 1: would need Parliament to legislate. But in the meantime... As. 312 00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:38,850 Speaker 2: First Minister on behalf of the Scottish Government, I am 313 00:26:38,910 --> 00:26:43,990 Speaker 2: choosing to acknowledge that egregious historic injustice and extend a 314 00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:48,850 Speaker 2: formal posthumous apology to all those accused, convicted, vilified or 315 00:26:49,010 --> 00:26:52,450 Speaker 2: executed under the Witchcraft Act 1563. 316 00:26:52,450 --> 00:26:58,590 Speaker 1: The campaign for a pardon continues. And not just in Scotland, 317 00:26:59,070 --> 00:27:02,170 Speaker 1: but England as well. where nobody in government has ever 318 00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:06,650 Speaker 1: even apologised to the likes of Alison, Old Demdyke and 319 00:27:06,850 --> 00:27:11,610 Speaker 1: Alice Nutter. The Justice for Witches webpage points out that 320 00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:15,910 Speaker 1: these people could not possibly have committed the crimes of 321 00:27:15,970 --> 00:27:18,910 Speaker 1: which they were accused, because the idea that you can 322 00:27:19,170 --> 00:27:24,350 Speaker 1: use magic to harm your neighbours is a make-believe idea. 323 00:27:25,150 --> 00:27:30,370 Speaker 1: Quite so. The campaign reflects our modern, rational understanding of 324 00:27:30,430 --> 00:27:36,140 Speaker 1: the world. Oh, and the head of the campaign? Charlotte Meredith. 325 00:27:38,860 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: If you go to the author's website, charlottemeredith.co.uk, and click 326 00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:47,860 Speaker 1: on the Justice for Witches tab, you can add your 327 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: name to the petition calling for a pardon. Because, obviously, 328 00:27:53,020 --> 00:27:57,060 Speaker 1: harmful magic is a make-believe idea. Then you can click 329 00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: on the Book tab to buy Charlotte's History of the 330 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: Pendle Witches Trials, because, obviously, it's perfectly plausible for Charlotte's 331 00:28:06,610 --> 00:28:11,230 Speaker 1: mum to interview the dead. This tale of two tabs 332 00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:16,570 Speaker 1: on Charlotte Meredith's website raises an intriguing question. How do 333 00:28:16,590 --> 00:28:20,830 Speaker 1: we think about the supernatural? What makes one idea seem 334 00:28:21,010 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: patently absurd... while another can still be advanced with a 335 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,900 Speaker 1: straight face. Opinion polls are no help in solving the puzzle. 336 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:36,020 Speaker 1: In 2025, the pollster YouGov asked Britons about their supernatural beliefs. 337 00:28:36,700 --> 00:28:41,580 Speaker 1: Some 20% say it's either definitely or probably possible to 338 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,300 Speaker 1: communicate with the dead. But wait, 21% say the same 339 00:28:46,370 --> 00:28:51,130 Speaker 1: about the existence of witches with magic powers. In the US, 340 00:28:51,330 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: the figures are similar. According to Gallup, 27% believe in 341 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: messages from the other side and 24% believe in witches. 342 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: These are minorities, but they're not nothing. There's clearly a 343 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,660 Speaker 1: market for posthumous interviews with people falsely accused of witchcraft. 344 00:29:11,660 --> 00:29:15,540 Speaker 1: But the opinion polls also suggest that about the same 345 00:29:15,620 --> 00:29:18,700 Speaker 1: numbers of Brits and Americans should be open to the 346 00:29:18,780 --> 00:29:23,750 Speaker 1: idea that at least some people in 1612 might really 347 00:29:24,090 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: have been witches. In August 1612, two judges decided the 348 00:29:32,420 --> 00:29:37,620 Speaker 1: fates of the Pendle witches. Their clerk, Thomas Potts, took 349 00:29:37,820 --> 00:29:41,940 Speaker 1: careful notes as one by one the case was made 350 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: against each of the accused. Not old Demdike, though. She 351 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,420 Speaker 1: had already died in her cell. in Lancaster Castle. Her 352 00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:57,030 Speaker 1: great rival, old Chattox, was still going, just barely. A 353 00:29:57,070 --> 00:30:03,550 Speaker 1: very old, withered, spent and decrepit creature, as Potts described her, 354 00:30:04,210 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: clearly a witch. Alison, of course, had also confessed to witchcraft, 355 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,220 Speaker 1: but her mother pleaded not guilty. So the prosecution brought 356 00:30:14,380 --> 00:30:22,790 Speaker 1: out their star witness, her other daughter, Alison's younger sister. Janet, 357 00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:27,690 Speaker 1: says Potts, was about the age of nine years. Courts 358 00:30:27,790 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't normally rely on such young witnesses, but the usual 359 00:30:31,620 --> 00:30:36,390 Speaker 1: rules of evidence were relaxed in witchcraft trials. the sight 360 00:30:36,450 --> 00:30:39,730 Speaker 1: of Janet on the witness stand had quite an effect 361 00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:46,750 Speaker 1: on her mother. Outrageously cursing, says Potts, she cried out 362 00:30:46,810 --> 00:30:50,770 Speaker 1: against the child in such fearful manner that poor Janet, 363 00:30:51,050 --> 00:30:55,030 Speaker 1: with weeping tears, told the court she was not able 364 00:30:55,100 --> 00:31:01,450 Speaker 1: to speak in the presence of her mother. Once her 365 00:31:01,490 --> 00:31:06,150 Speaker 1: mother had been removed, Jenet did confesseth and saith that 366 00:31:06,210 --> 00:31:11,130 Speaker 1: her mother is a witch, and this she knoweth to 367 00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:22,510 Speaker 1: be true. Guilty. Then there was wealthy, good-tempered, enigmatic Alice Nutter, 368 00:31:22,970 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: who was stubbornly refusing to incriminate herself. The judges found 369 00:31:28,340 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: an ingenious solution. An identity parade. Young Janet, after all, 370 00:31:33,940 --> 00:31:37,930 Speaker 1: had been present at that great assembly of all the 371 00:31:37,980 --> 00:31:43,290 Speaker 1: most dangerous, wicked and damnable witches in the country. Would 372 00:31:43,390 --> 00:31:47,870 Speaker 1: she recognise others who'd been there? She assured the judges 373 00:31:48,010 --> 00:31:52,670 Speaker 1: that she would. And so, in the presence of this 374 00:31:52,850 --> 00:31:58,610 Speaker 1: great audience, in open court... the nine-year-old girl went and 375 00:31:58,670 --> 00:32:11,100 Speaker 1: took Alice Nutter by the hand. Case closed. Even in 1612, 376 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:14,780 Speaker 1: not everyone believed in witchcraft. On the very first page 377 00:32:14,860 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: of Demonology, King James refers to the damnable opinions... of 378 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,900 Speaker 1: a writer who is not afraid, in public print, to 379 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,580 Speaker 1: deny that there can be such a thing as witchcraft. 380 00:32:31,220 --> 00:32:35,700 Speaker 1: We don't know how common such scepticism was. Yougov and 381 00:32:35,780 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: Galapalas weren't around back then. But we get an example 382 00:32:40,150 --> 00:32:44,190 Speaker 1: from Potts himself. We hear an account of a young man, 383 00:32:44,610 --> 00:32:49,450 Speaker 1: convinced he's been cursed by old Chattox, whose father tells him, 384 00:32:50,420 --> 00:32:54,740 Speaker 1: Thou art a foolish lad. It is not so. Admittedly, 385 00:32:55,220 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: when the son promptly dies and the father himself takes 386 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: to his deathbed, he does change his tune. He did 387 00:33:03,460 --> 00:33:09,020 Speaker 1: sundry times say that he was bewitched. It must have 388 00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:13,470 Speaker 1: been hard to stay sceptical. What we believe as individuals 389 00:33:13,540 --> 00:33:17,690 Speaker 1: is reinforced or undermined by how much those beliefs are 390 00:33:17,730 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: reflected back to us. The sociologist Peter Berger gives us 391 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,940 Speaker 1: the idea of a plausibility structure, in which personal and 392 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: collective beliefs are in constant dialogue. Berger was interested in 393 00:33:32,220 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: analysing religion, but his idea applies just as well to 394 00:33:36,220 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: supernatural beliefs. In 1612, witchcraft had a plausibility structure. You 395 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,860 Speaker 1: get ill, your cow dies, your ship meets a storm … 396 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: many around you will say you were obviously bewitched. Today, 397 00:33:52,420 --> 00:33:56,370 Speaker 1: in many parts of the world, that structure has been dismantled. 398 00:33:57,130 --> 00:34:00,250 Speaker 1: Tell someone you've been bewitched, and chances are you'll get 399 00:34:00,290 --> 00:34:05,170 Speaker 1: a raised eyebrow or a polite smile. But in some places, 400 00:34:05,610 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: belief in witchcraft remains all too plausible. In the 2010s, 401 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: the Pew Research Center asked people in 95 countries, do 402 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,370 Speaker 1: you believe in the evil eye? Or that certain people 403 00:34:20,410 --> 00:34:24,510 Speaker 1: can cast curses or spells that cause bad things to 404 00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:29,470 Speaker 1: happen to someone? The percentage saying yes ranged from as 405 00:34:29,530 --> 00:34:34,070 Speaker 1: low as 9 to as high as 90. In communities 406 00:34:34,130 --> 00:34:38,790 Speaker 1: where witchcraft still has that plausibility structure, We get stories 407 00:34:38,850 --> 00:34:43,290 Speaker 1: like the 81-year-old woman in Uganda beaten by her neighbours 408 00:34:43,350 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: for causing a drought, the Haitian gang leader who massacred 409 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: elderly people in Port-au-Prince because witchcraft made his son ill, 410 00:34:52,820 --> 00:34:57,810 Speaker 1: or the 13-year-old girl in Nigeria deprived of food for 411 00:34:57,850 --> 00:35:05,110 Speaker 1: bewitching her uncle's motorbike. When Nicola Sturgeon apologised to Scottish witches, 412 00:35:05,690 --> 00:35:08,570 Speaker 1: she knew there'd be those who asked questions Why bother? 413 00:35:09,250 --> 00:35:10,970 Speaker 1: Wasn't it all so long ago? 414 00:35:12,410 --> 00:35:16,170 Speaker 2: For some, this is not yet historic. There are parts 415 00:35:16,230 --> 00:35:19,390 Speaker 2: of our world where even today women and girls face 416 00:35:19,450 --> 00:35:23,610 Speaker 2: persecution and sometimes death because they have been accused of witchcraft. 417 00:35:24,850 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: Charlotte Meredith agrees. By pardoning our historic witches, our government 418 00:35:30,940 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: can send a powerful educational message. When strange ideas are 419 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:43,740 Speaker 1: reinforced by a plausibility structure, they have consequences. Without such 420 00:35:43,780 --> 00:35:47,700 Speaker 1: a structure, the stakes tend to be lower. Claim you 421 00:35:47,740 --> 00:35:50,420 Speaker 1: can talk to the dead, and you must know that 422 00:35:50,780 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: most people aren't going to take you seriously. Perhaps that 423 00:35:55,140 --> 00:35:59,150 Speaker 1: difference can help us to resolve the Charlotte Meredith paradox. 424 00:35:59,890 --> 00:36:04,110 Speaker 1: What we say about witchcraft matters. In parts of the world, 425 00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:10,330 Speaker 1: Belief in harmful magic still gets people killed. But a 426 00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:14,100 Speaker 1: message from beyond the grave is unlikely to get anyone 427 00:36:14,220 --> 00:36:20,580 Speaker 1: convicted of murder. Ten of the Pendle accused were found guilty, 428 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:27,550 Speaker 1: including Alison, her mother and brother, old Chattox and Alice Nutter. 429 00:36:28,570 --> 00:36:32,770 Speaker 1: The judge put on his black cap.'' You shall all 430 00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: go from hence.'' We don't hear much on the hanging 431 00:36:36,220 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: from Thomas Potts. He just notes that it took place 432 00:36:39,300 --> 00:36:43,580 Speaker 1: the next day. We hear from Charlotte Meredith that Alison 433 00:36:43,720 --> 00:37:04,670 Speaker 1: wept hysterically. It would hardly be surprising. In truth, we'll 434 00:37:04,770 --> 00:37:09,590 Speaker 1: never know the details of what happened in Lancashire in 1612, 435 00:37:09,590 --> 00:37:12,610 Speaker 1: from the meeting on the country lane to the tightening 436 00:37:12,990 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 1: of the noose. But if the spirits of the Pendle 437 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: witches really are floating around, ready to communicate over 400 438 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,540 Speaker 1: years later, I'd love to know what they make of 439 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: those commemorative fridge magnets, tea towels and mugs. For a 440 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: full list of our sources, see the show notes at timharford.com. 441 00:37:54,660 --> 00:37:58,310 Speaker 1: Cautionary Tales is written by me, Tim Harford, with Andrew Wright, 442 00:37:58,670 --> 00:38:02,690 Speaker 1: Alice Fiennes and Ryan Dilley. It's produced by Georgia Mills 443 00:38:02,910 --> 00:38:06,550 Speaker 1: and Marilyn Rust. The sound design and original music are 444 00:38:06,570 --> 00:38:11,230 Speaker 1: the work of Pascal Wise. Ben-Nadav Hafri edited the scripts. 445 00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:14,500 Speaker 1: The show also wouldn't have been possible without the work 446 00:38:14,540 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: of Jacob Weisberg, Greta Cohen, Corinne Gileard-Fisher, Eric Sandler, Christina Sullivan, 447 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:26,070 Speaker 1: Keira Posey, and Owen Miller. Cautionary Tales is a production 448 00:38:26,350 --> 00:38:30,660 Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. 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