WEBVTT - The Phones

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<v Speaker 1>School of Humans. Over the past week, I've been doing

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<v Speaker 1>everything I can to get more information about Leo. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's also extremely hard because at the time, he was seventeen,

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<v Speaker 1>so like anyone, I mean, there might have been older

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<v Speaker 1>people who would show up on databases and things, but

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<v Speaker 1>if you're seventeen, like you really don't show up. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's that's kind of true too, right, So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he's not gonna have any kind of credit profile, any

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<v Speaker 1>kind of anything. Like he'd show up if he had,

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<v Speaker 1>like maybe some criminal records, but that's about it. If

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<v Speaker 1>he didn't have any of that, you know, as a

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<v Speaker 1>as a kid, you know, unless his parents like put

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<v Speaker 1>them on like their credit card as an authorities user

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<v Speaker 1>or something, which is not a common thing. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be it's gonna be difficult trying to figure

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<v Speaker 1>that out. Finally I found his current address. I did

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<v Speaker 1>some like looking into Leo, and he is actually not

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<v Speaker 1>even a little rock. He's in this area called Hot

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<v Speaker 1>Springs National Park, which is like a little town right

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<v Speaker 1>next to Hot Springs. Like the thought of going around

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<v Speaker 1>there looking for him is like not a great one,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean, it's it's going to be,

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<v Speaker 1>it would be like going into all types of like

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<v Speaker 1>remote areas looking for him. So I don't think I'll

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<v Speaker 1>be door knocking on him Saturday night, the night before

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<v Speaker 1>Ebbie talked with Eric and then Trevor is still this

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<v Speaker 1>giant black hole. But we do have a clear picture

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<v Speaker 1>now than we did when we first started investigating. We

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<v Speaker 1>know that Ebbie wasn't at Eric's, she wasn't at Danielle's,

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<v Speaker 1>she wasn't with c she wasn't at her mom and

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<v Speaker 1>stepdad's house or at her grandparents house. And at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>Trevor had a roommate. She confirmed that she and Trevor

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<v Speaker 1>went out of town for that wedding on Saturday night,

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<v Speaker 1>so Ebbie was not supposed to stay at trevor Vers

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<v Speaker 1>house either. And now we've talked to one more of

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<v Speaker 1>Ebbie's close friends who gives us even more clues about

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<v Speaker 1>what was going on with Ebbie before she disappeared. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine Townsend. This is hell and Gone. We've been trying

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<v Speaker 1>to learn more about the security guard, Guy Hooper and

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<v Speaker 1>his son Josh, even though Guy Hooper is now in

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<v Speaker 1>his seventies and has been doing security work for a

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<v Speaker 1>long time, this has not been easy. Unlike in some

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<v Speaker 1>previous cases, we've worked on law enforcement at Ebby's case,

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<v Speaker 1>even though they haven't been able to share information due

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<v Speaker 1>to the case being open and active, have in some

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<v Speaker 1>cases answered questions for us. We asked them about Guy Hooper.

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<v Speaker 1>What we were told is that he was interviewed and

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<v Speaker 1>that he was polygraphed and cleared. Now that may be true,

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<v Speaker 1>but this would also not be the first time that

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard about an air tight alibi or someone being

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<v Speaker 1>cleared by law enforcement, only for me to discover later

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<v Speaker 1>that this was not the case. Part of the problem

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<v Speaker 1>is that cleared is kind of a vague term in

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<v Speaker 1>and of itself. This is a well known problem in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States. In most cases, even when police do

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<v Speaker 1>not make an arrest or identify suspect, they can publicly

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<v Speaker 1>say that they've cleared the crime. That's actually the way

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<v Speaker 1>they determine the national clearance rate, or the percentage of

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<v Speaker 1>cases that are cleared versus those that are still under investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>So clearing a suspect is an even more vague term.

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<v Speaker 1>We put the word out on social media and on

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<v Speaker 1>Ebbie's family's Facebook page. Find Ebbie Steppic, a Hell and

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<v Speaker 1>Gone listener, reaches out. She gives me a link to

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<v Speaker 1>an article that the Arkansas Democrat Gazette published back in

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand. It's about a nightclub in Little Rock called

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<v Speaker 1>Planet Earth. It's closed now, but it was on Cantrell

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<v Speaker 1>Road back in the day. In September of two thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>Guy Hooper was working with a company called Security World.

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<v Speaker 1>He and another Security World officer named William Sharvinka worked

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<v Speaker 1>with the bouncers at the club. One night, they got

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<v Speaker 1>into an altercation with a twenty two year old man

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<v Speaker 1>named Damon Hilton. He had come to the club with

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<v Speaker 1>a friend. Three bouncers, Shawn Webb, Daryl Griffith, and Philip

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<v Speaker 1>David House, along with Guy and William Sharvenka. All five

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<v Speaker 1>of them were charged with beating Damon Hilton. Originally, they

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<v Speaker 1>were all charged with second degree battery, which is a felony.

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<v Speaker 1>When the trial finally happened, only Shawn Webb was found guilty,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was found guilty of the lesser misdemeanor charge,

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<v Speaker 1>third degree battery. The other four, including Hooper, were acquitted.

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<v Speaker 1>According to an article in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, quote

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<v Speaker 1>Pulaski County Deputy prosecuting Attorney Melanie Martin had argued that

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<v Speaker 1>Webb perforated Helton's ear drum when he punched him in

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<v Speaker 1>the left ear, and that Hooper, House and Shrevenka kicked, punched,

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<v Speaker 1>and hit Helton with a flashlight a short time later.

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<v Speaker 1>Ende Helton was an army ranger and during the trial,

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<v Speaker 1>according to the newspaper, he testified that it took weeks

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<v Speaker 1>for his ear to heal and that during that time

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<v Speaker 1>he was basically toned deaf. Damon said that it all

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<v Speaker 1>started when he was at the club with a friend.

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<v Speaker 1>At some point, the friend walked outside of the parking

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<v Speaker 1>lot and then the bouncers refused to let his friend

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<v Speaker 1>back in. He started trying to persuade one of the bouncers,

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<v Speaker 1>Daryl Griffith, into letting his friend back in. Then at

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<v Speaker 1>some point he put his hand on Darryl Griffith's arm.

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<v Speaker 1>At that point, he said, Darrell basically turned on him,

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<v Speaker 1>grabbed his throat and pushed him down to the curb. Then,

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<v Speaker 1>he said, Sean Webb approached him and punched him in

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<v Speaker 1>the ear. That was the punch that did the most damage.

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<v Speaker 1>He said he tried to walk away, but Guy Hooper,

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<v Speaker 1>Philip David House, and William Sharvinka followed him. This part

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<v Speaker 1>is extremely disturbing, and I really don't want to paraphrase it,

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<v Speaker 1>so I'm going to read it directly from the article.

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<v Speaker 1>It read. Quote he said, the security guards ripped off

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<v Speaker 1>their belts, taunting him and trying to start a fight.

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<v Speaker 1>End quote. At that point, he testified that the security

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<v Speaker 1>guards got him down on the ground and started beating him.

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<v Speaker 1>He said, quote at the time, I was very threatened.

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<v Speaker 1>I had heard about guys getting the crap kicked out

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<v Speaker 1>of them down there, but I never thought i'd be

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<v Speaker 1>one of them. Due at some point during this fight,

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<v Speaker 1>another nightclub patron also threw a punch and hit Amon Hilton.

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<v Speaker 1>Guy Hooper, his fellow security guard, and the bouncers denied

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<v Speaker 1>that they had ever hit Damon. They said that that

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<v Speaker 1>other nightclub patron was the only one who threw a punch,

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<v Speaker 1>but multiple witnesses backed up Damon Hilton's version of events,

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<v Speaker 1>and the club did have a reputation. The paper described

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<v Speaker 1>the club as being known among police officers and prosecutors

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<v Speaker 1>as being a place where bouncers regularly pick on people

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<v Speaker 1>they are supposed to protect due Prosecuting attorney Larry Juggley

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<v Speaker 1>told The Democrat Gazette at the time that he wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to use the state's public nuisance laws to try to

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<v Speaker 1>shut that business down. That didn't end up happening, but

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<v Speaker 1>the club was hit with a lot of bad publicity,

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<v Speaker 1>including civil lawsuits from people claiming that they had been

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<v Speaker 1>injured by the bouncers, including one in two thousand and

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<v Speaker 1>two from an Oklahoma man who sued the nightclub from

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<v Speaker 1>one point five million dollars. He claimed that he received

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<v Speaker 1>multiple injuries after five bouncers jumped him. Eventually, Planet Earth closed,

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<v Speaker 1>Guy Hooper moved on to another security company and eventually

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<v Speaker 1>onto the Channel Valley area. We'll be right back in

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<v Speaker 1>Ebbie's case. Maybe more than any case I've ever worked on.

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<v Speaker 1>We've had to question everything that we know, every detail

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<v Speaker 1>of the so called official story. Cell Phone data is

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<v Speaker 1>crucial to this case, and it also seems to be

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<v Speaker 1>an area that has not been investigated properly and that

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<v Speaker 1>could have been mishandled by the police. First, there was

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<v Speaker 1>the failure to get a warrant and take the boy's

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<v Speaker 1>phones from Friday night. If they had gotten those phones immediately,

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<v Speaker 1>they could have verified everyone's location during that crucial time

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<v Speaker 1>frame when every went missing. We've also been looking for

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<v Speaker 1>more information about Ebbie's phones in general. Remember Laurie told

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<v Speaker 1>us Ebbie had recently swapped phone owns with a friend.

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<v Speaker 1>That friend was Kaylee. Hello, Hey, is it Kayley? This

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<v Speaker 1>is Hey? If pepperd towns in Hi? Did I catch

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<v Speaker 1>you at a bad time? No, you're good. If you

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<v Speaker 1>hear my son though he's in bed with me, that's

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely fine. I have a Chihuahua and you'll probably hear

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<v Speaker 1>him throughout okay work at least sixth time. Kaylee has

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<v Speaker 1>been interviewed by other news outlets before, but this is

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<v Speaker 1>the first time her side of the story is being

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<v Speaker 1>told on the record. There has been tension between Ebbie's

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<v Speaker 1>family and Kaylee in the past. She believes that because

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<v Speaker 1>there was this tension between her and Ebbie's family, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the information she has said publicly hasn't been

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<v Speaker 1>used like I didn't want to do it and like

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<v Speaker 1>my side or like would I know, not be able

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<v Speaker 1>to be told? If that means yeah, I understand. Kaylee

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<v Speaker 1>met Ebbie in February twenty fifteen, they worked together playtime

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<v Speaker 1>and pizza. Even after they both quit those jobs, they

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<v Speaker 1>stayed friends. Ebbie got a job at foot locker at

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<v Speaker 1>McCain Mall, and Kayley also had a new job at

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<v Speaker 1>Big Rock Fun Park. Sometimes Ebbie would hang out with

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<v Speaker 1>Kaylee and Kayley's co workers. After Ebbie started clashing more

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<v Speaker 1>and more with her family, Kaylee told Ebbie that she

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<v Speaker 1>could stay at her house. So I was like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>you can come live with me for a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>Like you can come stay with me, You don't need

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<v Speaker 1>to be in an environment like that. So I talked

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<v Speaker 1>to my mom and she ended up staying with me

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<v Speaker 1>for like a few weeks. And whilst she was staying

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<v Speaker 1>with me, she was still going to school and doing

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<v Speaker 1>what she's supposed to. Kayley says that Ebbie started staying

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<v Speaker 1>with her in September twenty fifteen, the month before Ebbie disappeared,

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<v Speaker 1>and stayed for a few weeks, and the whole time

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<v Speaker 1>it was really good. She was asking normal like everything

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<v Speaker 1>and was perfectularly sign she never hung out with guys

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<v Speaker 1>that she didn't know, and if she did mention to

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<v Speaker 1>do that, like while she was staying with me, Me

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<v Speaker 1>and my older sister Destiny would always be like, try

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<v Speaker 1>to tell her, like that's not safe, Like don't hang

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<v Speaker 1>out with anyone you don't know unless someone you know

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<v Speaker 1>is with you or people know exactly where you're at.

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<v Speaker 1>You would never hang out with like any random guys

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<v Speaker 1>like that or people she didn't know. Because Ebbie compartmentalized

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<v Speaker 1>her life and had these different friend groups, Kayley said

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<v Speaker 1>she didn't know any of the people who were at

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<v Speaker 1>the party on Friday. She also didn't know Leo, the

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<v Speaker 1>guy from the photographs. Kayley did go to Shalamant Park

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<v Speaker 1>with Ebbie. Chalamant Park is right in front of another

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<v Speaker 1>high school called Joe T. Robinson, the one that Kaylee

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<v Speaker 1>and some of her friends attended. They all went there

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<v Speaker 1>one time while Ebby was staying with Kayley sometimes, she said,

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<v Speaker 1>in September. It was around eleven pm. So we ended

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<v Speaker 1>up going to the park one night with two guys.

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<v Speaker 1>I just remember one of them. But I just remember

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<v Speaker 1>us going there one night, and that was the first

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<v Speaker 1>time I ever been there with her, and we'd like

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<v Speaker 1>the only time we ever went, so I didn't think

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<v Speaker 1>she went often. It was just like that one time,

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<v Speaker 1>but she knew where it was, but Ebie and Kayley

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<v Speaker 1>ended up leaving quickly. We ended up leaving because we

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<v Speaker 1>felt uncomfortable with those guys, and Eddie called him out

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<v Speaker 1>on it because Ebbie is the type of person that's

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<v Speaker 1>like very blunt and she'll tell you how she feels.

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<v Speaker 1>And the guys didn't really like it because she said

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<v Speaker 1>that she told one of them that he seems like

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<v Speaker 1>a pedophile or rape. Its like he's just being creepy,

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<v Speaker 1>and he didn't like that. So we ended up leaving

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<v Speaker 1>and never talked to them again, and after that we

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<v Speaker 1>never been to that park. I'm hoping that Kayley can

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<v Speaker 1>help us figure out who these two guys are. And

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<v Speaker 1>then Kayley told us about what had happened with phone.

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<v Speaker 1>She confirmed that they had switched devices. We ended up

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<v Speaker 1>like I ended up buying her phone and I gave

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<v Speaker 1>her my phone, like we just switched phone and sold

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<v Speaker 1>me her iPhone six I think it was, and I

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<v Speaker 1>let her have my five so my I guess somehow

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<v Speaker 1>my Apple i'd was still in that phone, so anytime

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<v Speaker 1>she took like pictures of screenshots, I would get it

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<v Speaker 1>on my phone. The last time that Kaylie saw Ebbie

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<v Speaker 1>was early October twenty fifteen. She ended up saying she

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<v Speaker 1>could go stay with her dad, so it was probably

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<v Speaker 1>like the beginning of October. So the last time I

0:13:48.085 --> 0:13:51.045
<v Speaker 1>actually got to hang out with her like that. The

0:13:51.125 --> 0:13:54.365
<v Speaker 1>last time I spoke to her was that Friday before

0:13:54.445 --> 0:13:57.565
<v Speaker 1>she went missing, because we made plans to hang out

0:13:57.605 --> 0:14:00.525
<v Speaker 1>that Sunday. She was supposed to come back from a

0:14:00.605 --> 0:14:02.925
<v Speaker 1>trip that she was going to take with one of

0:14:02.925 --> 0:14:06.165
<v Speaker 1>her friends. But then after that I found out she

0:14:06.205 --> 0:14:10.045
<v Speaker 1>went missing and I didn't hear from her again. Did

0:14:10.085 --> 0:14:11.885
<v Speaker 1>she tell you where she was supposed to go on

0:14:11.925 --> 0:14:15.125
<v Speaker 1>Saturday night? She said that that Friday she was like

0:14:15.205 --> 0:14:17.645
<v Speaker 1>me and my friend. She didn't tell me what friends,

0:14:17.925 --> 0:14:19.485
<v Speaker 1>but she was like, me and my friends are going

0:14:19.725 --> 0:14:22.845
<v Speaker 1>out of town on a trip, like for the weekend.

0:14:22.885 --> 0:14:26.085
<v Speaker 1>But apparently it went it got canceled, so she ended

0:14:26.165 --> 0:14:29.725
<v Speaker 1>up not going. But I didn't know that part. I

0:14:29.805 --> 0:14:32.405
<v Speaker 1>just knew she was going out of town for the weekend.

0:14:32.405 --> 0:14:36.325
<v Speaker 1>I don't remember where. Kayley does not remember exactly who

0:14:36.365 --> 0:14:38.845
<v Speaker 1>Ebbie was supposed to take this trip with, but I

0:14:38.925 --> 0:14:40.765
<v Speaker 1>just know she said that she was going to go

0:14:40.805 --> 0:14:44.085
<v Speaker 1>out of town and then that Sunday she came back,

0:14:44.205 --> 0:14:47.565
<v Speaker 1>we said, hang out. We know that we can eliminate

0:14:47.685 --> 0:14:51.365
<v Speaker 1>Kayley's house from where Ebbie was on Saturday night. So

0:14:51.405 --> 0:14:54.565
<v Speaker 1>that means that whoever Ebbie was staying with wasn't any

0:14:54.605 --> 0:14:56.405
<v Speaker 1>of the people who she was staying with after she

0:14:56.485 --> 0:15:08.605
<v Speaker 1>left home. We'll be right back. After Ebbie went missing,

0:15:09.245 --> 0:15:11.725
<v Speaker 1>Kayley said that she was worried that the police were

0:15:11.765 --> 0:15:16.005
<v Speaker 1>not investigating, so one day, she and her mom decided

0:15:16.045 --> 0:15:20.125
<v Speaker 1>to go to Chamont Park themselves. Even though Detective Tommy

0:15:20.205 --> 0:15:22.845
<v Speaker 1>Hudson would later say that they could not have smelled

0:15:22.885 --> 0:15:26.685
<v Speaker 1>decomposition from where they were, Kayley says she will never

0:15:26.725 --> 0:15:30.765
<v Speaker 1>forget what she saw and smelled that day. We've heard

0:15:30.765 --> 0:15:34.125
<v Speaker 1>this story secondhand, but here it is in Kayley's own words.

0:15:34.525 --> 0:15:36.605
<v Speaker 1>So after we talked to them, we went to the

0:15:36.725 --> 0:15:40.805
<v Speaker 1>park and my mom walked over there. First. She instantly

0:15:41.005 --> 0:15:44.245
<v Speaker 1>with the drainage type. She was like, Kayley, no, don't

0:15:44.245 --> 0:15:46.965
<v Speaker 1>come down here, like stay up there, and I was like, no,

0:15:47.125 --> 0:15:49.245
<v Speaker 1>I'm comming like I want to know what's going on.

0:15:49.525 --> 0:15:51.885
<v Speaker 1>So I went down there and I smelled it too,

0:15:52.085 --> 0:15:56.405
<v Speaker 1>And so my mom ended up calling the cops multiple times,

0:15:56.405 --> 0:16:00.445
<v Speaker 1>probably three or four, and then they finally came out

0:16:01.325 --> 0:16:05.605
<v Speaker 1>and investigated it, like they just lifted it up and

0:16:05.725 --> 0:16:09.485
<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, it's sewage and called it a day,

0:16:10.125 --> 0:16:13.725
<v Speaker 1>which it upset me so much because I was like, literally,

0:16:13.725 --> 0:16:17.205
<v Speaker 1>like you guys could have found her two weeks after

0:16:17.285 --> 0:16:21.005
<v Speaker 1>she went missing and known like exactly what happened to her.

0:16:22.845 --> 0:16:25.405
<v Speaker 1>Kaylee went back to the park herself to check the

0:16:25.405 --> 0:16:29.045
<v Speaker 1>man hole. Me and my friend Lace at the time,

0:16:29.125 --> 0:16:31.165
<v Speaker 1>I was like, can we go down there and see

0:16:31.165 --> 0:16:34.525
<v Speaker 1>if we could go investigate that. We were what, like

0:16:34.805 --> 0:16:39.085
<v Speaker 1>it was twenty fifteen, so I was like sixteen seventeen

0:16:39.125 --> 0:16:42.805
<v Speaker 1>at the time, so not the smartness, but I was like,

0:16:43.125 --> 0:16:45.565
<v Speaker 1>let's go see if we can go down there and

0:16:45.645 --> 0:16:48.165
<v Speaker 1>see if like we can see anything, because obviously the

0:16:48.165 --> 0:16:52.365
<v Speaker 1>cops aren't taking it seriously. But even if Ebie did

0:16:52.445 --> 0:16:54.085
<v Speaker 1>want to go down there, there was no way she

0:16:54.125 --> 0:16:57.485
<v Speaker 1>could have fit to shimmy herself down there and that

0:16:57.885 --> 0:17:00.125
<v Speaker 1>drain Like me and my friend couldn't even pick it up.

0:17:00.165 --> 0:17:01.885
<v Speaker 1>It was too heavy. There's no way she could have

0:17:01.965 --> 0:17:05.365
<v Speaker 1>done it herself and moved it back. So like that series,

0:17:05.525 --> 0:17:07.725
<v Speaker 1>this makes no sense. And the way that the ladder

0:17:07.885 --> 0:17:11.885
<v Speaker 1>was it was like on the back side, so like

0:17:11.925 --> 0:17:14.965
<v Speaker 1>if she did get in there, she would have to

0:17:15.005 --> 0:17:18.485
<v Speaker 1>like stretch across to the other side of the hole

0:17:18.845 --> 0:17:22.125
<v Speaker 1>to get even to the ladder thing. How would she

0:17:22.205 --> 0:17:28.125
<v Speaker 1>have possibly done that? So Kaylee also does not believe

0:17:28.445 --> 0:17:31.765
<v Speaker 1>that Ebbie would have gone down there herself. Whenever they

0:17:31.805 --> 0:17:35.165
<v Speaker 1>told me that they found everything in her vehicle. Ebbie

0:17:35.205 --> 0:17:37.245
<v Speaker 1>wasn't the type of person to leave her purse or

0:17:37.245 --> 0:17:40.325
<v Speaker 1>her phone or anything like that anywhere, Like she always

0:17:40.325 --> 0:17:42.725
<v Speaker 1>had to have it with her because she was always

0:17:42.845 --> 0:17:47.885
<v Speaker 1>about taking pictures in videos then like all types of

0:17:47.885 --> 0:17:50.525
<v Speaker 1>stuff like that. So like whenever they said she left

0:17:50.565 --> 0:17:53.325
<v Speaker 1>her phone and everything like that was a red flag

0:17:53.405 --> 0:17:55.565
<v Speaker 1>to me because it wasn't that type of person to

0:17:55.645 --> 0:17:58.805
<v Speaker 1>just be nons a lot and leave everything and not

0:17:58.885 --> 0:18:01.765
<v Speaker 1>think about it. There's been a lot of confusion about

0:18:01.765 --> 0:18:03.645
<v Speaker 1>her what she might have been on the day that

0:18:03.725 --> 0:18:06.485
<v Speaker 1>she called her brother. Yes, do you know what kind

0:18:06.525 --> 0:18:09.845
<v Speaker 1>of drives she may have done? She only smoked wead,

0:18:10.165 --> 0:18:12.245
<v Speaker 1>And even then I tried to get her to stop,

0:18:12.765 --> 0:18:16.725
<v Speaker 1>but she only smoked weed. And that's the only thing

0:18:16.765 --> 0:18:19.485
<v Speaker 1>I knew she was messing with. And she only did

0:18:19.525 --> 0:18:22.885
<v Speaker 1>it with the people she was like hanging out outside

0:18:22.885 --> 0:18:26.405
<v Speaker 1>of me because I wasn't a smoker, so I was like, Eavy, like,

0:18:27.565 --> 0:18:31.285
<v Speaker 1>it's better if you don't do that because it can

0:18:31.405 --> 0:18:33.645
<v Speaker 1>lead you like you could do something really hard, or

0:18:33.685 --> 0:18:36.445
<v Speaker 1>like someone that you don't know could like lay something

0:18:36.645 --> 0:18:39.805
<v Speaker 1>and like they can really hurt. Kayleie also heard about

0:18:39.845 --> 0:18:43.405
<v Speaker 1>the towel. My mom smelt it where the car was

0:18:43.485 --> 0:18:47.805
<v Speaker 1>parked and the towel was leading into the drain, which

0:18:47.805 --> 0:18:50.685
<v Speaker 1>we found that out the day that we found out

0:18:50.725 --> 0:18:53.325
<v Speaker 1>about her car, because they said that there was like

0:18:53.365 --> 0:18:56.485
<v Speaker 1>a towel leading into the drain, which that's obviously like

0:18:56.885 --> 0:18:59.365
<v Speaker 1>something like why wouldn't you want to look in there?

0:18:59.805 --> 0:19:02.285
<v Speaker 1>If there's a towel leading into the drain on the ground,

0:19:02.845 --> 0:19:04.805
<v Speaker 1>why wouldn't you look in the drain? To begin with?

0:19:05.605 --> 0:19:08.885
<v Speaker 1>It looked like a red color, and I was like, well,

0:19:08.885 --> 0:19:11.925
<v Speaker 1>we didn't have the red towel. Like Ebbie never carried

0:19:11.965 --> 0:19:14.125
<v Speaker 1>around the towel, but apparently it was a towel from

0:19:14.125 --> 0:19:18.845
<v Speaker 1>her brother's house, because whenever she stopped moving living with me,

0:19:20.085 --> 0:19:23.765
<v Speaker 1>she ended up moving in with her dad and then

0:19:24.205 --> 0:19:27.965
<v Speaker 1>apparently she moved in with her brother, and I think

0:19:28.005 --> 0:19:30.365
<v Speaker 1>the towel was like the brothers, like she took it

0:19:30.405 --> 0:19:33.845
<v Speaker 1>from her brother's house or something, and that's what they said,

0:19:34.165 --> 0:19:35.805
<v Speaker 1>but that's a lie. I just know that it was,

0:19:35.885 --> 0:19:38.125
<v Speaker 1>like the detective said, it was next to her car,

0:19:38.285 --> 0:19:43.445
<v Speaker 1>leading like into the dream. So now we know where

0:19:43.485 --> 0:19:46.765
<v Speaker 1>the towel came from. It came from Ebbie's brother's house,

0:19:47.685 --> 0:19:51.045
<v Speaker 1>so it must have come out of her car. Kayley

0:19:51.165 --> 0:19:53.685
<v Speaker 1>says that Ebbie was planning to give her her phone back,

0:19:53.965 --> 0:19:57.245
<v Speaker 1>and that the screen was cracked, so that could explain

0:19:57.405 --> 0:19:59.405
<v Speaker 1>why there was a receipt for what appeared to be

0:19:59.485 --> 0:20:02.765
<v Speaker 1>a page you Go phone inside Ebbie's car. If she

0:20:02.885 --> 0:20:05.965
<v Speaker 1>was planning to give the iPhone five back, maybe she

0:20:06.005 --> 0:20:09.245
<v Speaker 1>bought a second phone as a backup. I asked Kaylee

0:20:09.325 --> 0:20:11.685
<v Speaker 1>what happened to her phone when police first questioned her,

0:20:12.205 --> 0:20:15.845
<v Speaker 1>Well after she went missing, do you remember were you

0:20:15.885 --> 0:20:19.685
<v Speaker 1>still getting her pictures in your clouds? I did get

0:20:20.085 --> 0:20:22.405
<v Speaker 1>like whenever I found out she was actually missing, and

0:20:22.445 --> 0:20:25.165
<v Speaker 1>I had to talk to your depressive I look in

0:20:25.325 --> 0:20:31.165
<v Speaker 1>like the screenshot part and whenever the last stuff I

0:20:31.205 --> 0:20:33.605
<v Speaker 1>got was like, I actually have the pictures. I can

0:20:33.645 --> 0:20:36.245
<v Speaker 1>look at the days I have them in my email.

0:20:36.885 --> 0:20:39.645
<v Speaker 1>She says. The last screenshot she got from that phone

0:20:40.205 --> 0:20:43.005
<v Speaker 1>was something that sounds like the text exchange that we

0:20:43.045 --> 0:20:46.645
<v Speaker 1>saw between Ebbie and C about the video. You don't

0:20:46.685 --> 0:20:49.805
<v Speaker 1>still have the phone, do you? No, the police ever

0:20:49.885 --> 0:20:51.925
<v Speaker 1>gave it back to me, Like they wouldn't give it

0:20:51.925 --> 0:20:55.605
<v Speaker 1>back to me, like the phone, so they took it.

0:20:56.525 --> 0:20:59.765
<v Speaker 1>They tried to take the phone that I had, and

0:21:00.125 --> 0:21:02.045
<v Speaker 1>at first they were like, well, you don't need we're

0:21:02.085 --> 0:21:04.645
<v Speaker 1>not going to take the phone. Just give us everything

0:21:04.645 --> 0:21:09.245
<v Speaker 1>you need, so like them everything that could possibly helped him.

0:21:09.885 --> 0:21:14.085
<v Speaker 1>And then they tried to again take my phone. But

0:21:14.205 --> 0:21:17.485
<v Speaker 1>the phone that was Ebby's was originally mine, like Ebby

0:21:17.485 --> 0:21:20.125
<v Speaker 1>didn't pay for it, so I was supposed to get

0:21:20.125 --> 0:21:22.685
<v Speaker 1>that back and they never gave that back. So I

0:21:22.765 --> 0:21:25.525
<v Speaker 1>never got that one back. But they never actually physically

0:21:25.565 --> 0:21:28.765
<v Speaker 1>took mine because my parents were like, we gave you

0:21:28.845 --> 0:21:31.685
<v Speaker 1>everything you went through her phone, there's nothing else, like,

0:21:32.485 --> 0:21:34.405
<v Speaker 1>there's no reason for you to keep her phone if

0:21:34.445 --> 0:21:37.685
<v Speaker 1>she's cooperating and gave you everything that you guys asked for.

0:21:38.525 --> 0:21:42.205
<v Speaker 1>So they never actually took it. But I ended up

0:21:42.685 --> 0:21:46.765
<v Speaker 1>trading that in because it's been years, so I ended

0:21:46.845 --> 0:21:49.565
<v Speaker 1>up getting a new phone. I think of twenty seventeen

0:21:50.525 --> 0:21:57.645
<v Speaker 1>and I haven't had that phone since Detective Bruce Maxwell

0:21:57.685 --> 0:22:00.805
<v Speaker 1>has said that he's looked through Ebbie's phone all six

0:22:00.845 --> 0:22:04.205
<v Speaker 1>thousand photos that are on there. But I wonder if

0:22:04.245 --> 0:22:07.125
<v Speaker 1>there could be anything still in the cloud, still in

0:22:07.245 --> 0:22:10.605
<v Speaker 1>Kaylee's phone that could help us. She says she's going

0:22:10.645 --> 0:22:13.285
<v Speaker 1>to give us her eye cloud log in. So now

0:22:13.685 --> 0:22:15.605
<v Speaker 1>we're going to touch base with Mike and go through

0:22:15.645 --> 0:22:21.045
<v Speaker 1>everything that Kaylee has. Like so many among investigations, you

0:22:21.125 --> 0:22:23.925
<v Speaker 1>reach a point where it's a waiting game. So I'm

0:22:23.925 --> 0:22:27.485
<v Speaker 1>playing phone tag with sources or just waiting until a

0:22:27.525 --> 0:22:31.205
<v Speaker 1>source changes their mind and wants to talk. And instead

0:22:31.285 --> 0:22:34.685
<v Speaker 1>of reporting any more second or third hand stories, we're

0:22:34.765 --> 0:22:36.845
<v Speaker 1>trying our best to get to the source of all

0:22:36.885 --> 0:22:40.205
<v Speaker 1>these rumors. There's another source who's done a lot of

0:22:40.205 --> 0:22:43.685
<v Speaker 1>investigating to Ebby's death, and she just told me Ebbie's

0:22:43.765 --> 0:22:46.285
<v Speaker 1>body might not have been found in the way the

0:22:46.325 --> 0:22:53.965
<v Speaker 1>police reported it. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone.

0:22:55.885 --> 0:22:58.925
<v Speaker 1>Helen Gone is a production of School of Humans and iHeartRadio.

0:22:59.405 --> 0:23:02.645
<v Speaker 1>It's written and hosted by me Katherine Townsend and produced

0:23:02.685 --> 0:23:06.005
<v Speaker 1>by Gabby Watts and Mike doubt Our executive producers or

0:23:06.045 --> 0:23:10.165
<v Speaker 1>Brandon Barr, Elsie Crowley, and Virginia Prescott. Mix and Master

0:23:10.285 --> 0:23:13.125
<v Speaker 1>is by Ryan Peoples and our music is by Ben Sale.

0:23:13.765 --> 0:23:17.485
<v Speaker 1>If you have any information regarding Ebbie's case, please call

0:23:17.525 --> 0:23:21.005
<v Speaker 1>our tipline at six seven eight six three two six

0:23:21.125 --> 0:23:46.525
<v Speaker 1>one five nine School of Humans. School of Humans