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Speaker 1: School of Humans. Over the past week, I've been doing

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Speaker 1: everything I can to get more information about Leo. But

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Speaker 1: it's also extremely hard because at the time, he was seventeen,

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Speaker 1: so like anyone, I mean, there might have been older

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Speaker 1: people who would show up on databases and things, but

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Speaker 1: if you're seventeen, like you really don't show up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's that's kind of true too, right, So you know,

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Speaker 1: he's not gonna have any kind of credit profile, any

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Speaker 1: kind of anything. Like he'd show up if he had,

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Speaker 1: like maybe some criminal records, but that's about it. If

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Speaker 1: he didn't have any of that, you know, as a

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Speaker 1: as a kid, you know, unless his parents like put

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Speaker 1: them on like their credit card as an authorities user

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Speaker 1: or something, which is not a common thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be it's gonna be difficult trying to figure

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Speaker 1: that out. Finally I found his current address. I did

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Speaker 1: some like looking into Leo, and he is actually not

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Speaker 1: even a little rock. He's in this area called Hot

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Speaker 1: Springs National Park, which is like a little town right

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Speaker 1: next to Hot Springs. Like the thought of going around

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Speaker 1: there looking for him is like not a great one,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, it's it's going to be,

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Speaker 1: it would be like going into all types of like

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Speaker 1: remote areas looking for him. So I don't think I'll

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Speaker 1: be door knocking on him Saturday night, the night before

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Speaker 1: Ebbie talked with Eric and then Trevor is still this

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Speaker 1: giant black hole. But we do have a clear picture

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Speaker 1: now than we did when we first started investigating. We

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Speaker 1: know that Ebbie wasn't at Eric's, she wasn't at Danielle's,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't with c she wasn't at her mom and

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Speaker 1: stepdad's house or at her grandparents house. And at the time,

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Speaker 1: Trevor had a roommate. She confirmed that she and Trevor

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Speaker 1: went out of town for that wedding on Saturday night,

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Speaker 1: so Ebbie was not supposed to stay at trevor Vers

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Speaker 1: house either. And now we've talked to one more of

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Speaker 1: Ebbie's close friends who gives us even more clues about

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Speaker 1: what was going on with Ebbie before she disappeared. I'm

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Speaker 1: Catherine Townsend. This is hell and Gone. We've been trying

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Speaker 1: to learn more about the security guard, Guy Hooper and

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Speaker 1: his son Josh, even though Guy Hooper is now in

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Speaker 1: his seventies and has been doing security work for a

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Speaker 1: long time, this has not been easy. Unlike in some

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Speaker 1: previous cases, we've worked on law enforcement at Ebby's case,

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Speaker 1: even though they haven't been able to share information due

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Speaker 1: to the case being open and active, have in some

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Speaker 1: cases answered questions for us. We asked them about Guy Hooper.

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Speaker 1: What we were told is that he was interviewed and

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Speaker 1: that he was polygraphed and cleared. Now that may be true,

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Speaker 1: but this would also not be the first time that

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Speaker 1: I've heard about an air tight alibi or someone being

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Speaker 1: cleared by law enforcement, only for me to discover later

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Speaker 1: that this was not the case. Part of the problem

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Speaker 1: is that cleared is kind of a vague term in

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Speaker 1: and of itself. This is a well known problem in

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Speaker 1: the United States. In most cases, even when police do

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Speaker 1: not make an arrest or identify suspect, they can publicly

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Speaker 1: say that they've cleared the crime. That's actually the way

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Speaker 1: they determine the national clearance rate, or the percentage of

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Speaker 1: cases that are cleared versus those that are still under investigation.

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Speaker 1: So clearing a suspect is an even more vague term.

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Speaker 1: We put the word out on social media and on

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Speaker 1: Ebbie's family's Facebook page. Find Ebbie Steppic, a Hell and

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Speaker 1: Gone listener, reaches out. She gives me a link to

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Speaker 1: an article that the Arkansas Democrat Gazette published back in

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Speaker 1: two thousand. It's about a nightclub in Little Rock called

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Speaker 1: Planet Earth. It's closed now, but it was on Cantrell

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Speaker 1: Road back in the day. In September of two thousand,

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Speaker 1: Guy Hooper was working with a company called Security World.

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Speaker 1: He and another Security World officer named William Sharvinka worked

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Speaker 1: with the bouncers at the club. One night, they got

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Speaker 1: into an altercation with a twenty two year old man

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Speaker 1: named Damon Hilton. He had come to the club with

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Speaker 1: a friend. Three bouncers, Shawn Webb, Daryl Griffith, and Philip

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Speaker 1: David House, along with Guy and William Sharvenka. All five

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Speaker 1: of them were charged with beating Damon Hilton. Originally, they

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Speaker 1: were all charged with second degree battery, which is a felony.

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Speaker 1: When the trial finally happened, only Shawn Webb was found guilty,

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Speaker 1: and he was found guilty of the lesser misdemeanor charge,

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Speaker 1: third degree battery. The other four, including Hooper, were acquitted.

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Speaker 1: According to an article in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, quote

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Speaker 1: Pulaski County Deputy prosecuting Attorney Melanie Martin had argued that

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Speaker 1: Webb perforated Helton's ear drum when he punched him in

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Speaker 1: the left ear, and that Hooper, House and Shrevenka kicked, punched,

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Speaker 1: and hit Helton with a flashlight a short time later.

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Speaker 1: Ende Helton was an army ranger and during the trial,

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Speaker 1: according to the newspaper, he testified that it took weeks

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Speaker 1: for his ear to heal and that during that time

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Speaker 1: he was basically toned deaf. Damon said that it all

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Speaker 1: started when he was at the club with a friend.

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Speaker 1: At some point, the friend walked outside of the parking

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Speaker 1: lot and then the bouncers refused to let his friend

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Speaker 1: back in. He started trying to persuade one of the bouncers,

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Speaker 1: Daryl Griffith, into letting his friend back in. Then at

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Speaker 1: some point he put his hand on Darryl Griffith's arm.

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Speaker 1: At that point, he said, Darrell basically turned on him,

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Speaker 1: grabbed his throat and pushed him down to the curb. Then,

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Speaker 1: he said, Sean Webb approached him and punched him in

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Speaker 1: the ear. That was the punch that did the most damage.

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Speaker 1: He said he tried to walk away, but Guy Hooper,

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Speaker 1: Philip David House, and William Sharvinka followed him. This part

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Speaker 1: is extremely disturbing, and I really don't want to paraphrase it,

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Speaker 1: so I'm going to read it directly from the article.

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Speaker 1: It read. Quote he said, the security guards ripped off

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Speaker 1: their belts, taunting him and trying to start a fight.

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Speaker 1: End quote. At that point, he testified that the security

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Speaker 1: guards got him down on the ground and started beating him.

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Speaker 1: He said, quote at the time, I was very threatened.

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Speaker 1: I had heard about guys getting the crap kicked out

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Speaker 1: of them down there, but I never thought i'd be

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Speaker 1: one of them. Due at some point during this fight,

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Speaker 1: another nightclub patron also threw a punch and hit Amon Hilton.

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Speaker 1: Guy Hooper, his fellow security guard, and the bouncers denied

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Speaker 1: that they had ever hit Damon. They said that that

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Speaker 1: other nightclub patron was the only one who threw a punch,

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Speaker 1: but multiple witnesses backed up Damon Hilton's version of events,

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Speaker 1: and the club did have a reputation. The paper described

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Speaker 1: the club as being known among police officers and prosecutors

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Speaker 1: as being a place where bouncers regularly pick on people

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Speaker 1: they are supposed to protect due Prosecuting attorney Larry Juggley

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Speaker 1: told The Democrat Gazette at the time that he wanted

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Speaker 1: to use the state's public nuisance laws to try to

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Speaker 1: shut that business down. That didn't end up happening, but

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Speaker 1: the club was hit with a lot of bad publicity,

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Speaker 1: including civil lawsuits from people claiming that they had been

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Speaker 1: injured by the bouncers, including one in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: two from an Oklahoma man who sued the nightclub from

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Speaker 1: one point five million dollars. He claimed that he received

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Speaker 1: multiple injuries after five bouncers jumped him. Eventually, Planet Earth closed,

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Speaker 1: Guy Hooper moved on to another security company and eventually

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Speaker 1: onto the Channel Valley area. We'll be right back in

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Speaker 1: Ebbie's case. Maybe more than any case I've ever worked on.

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Speaker 1: We've had to question everything that we know, every detail

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Speaker 1: of the so called official story. Cell Phone data is

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Speaker 1: crucial to this case, and it also seems to be

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Speaker 1: an area that has not been investigated properly and that

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Speaker 1: could have been mishandled by the police. First, there was

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Speaker 1: the failure to get a warrant and take the boy's

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Speaker 1: phones from Friday night. If they had gotten those phones immediately,

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Speaker 1: they could have verified everyone's location during that crucial time

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Speaker 1: frame when every went missing. We've also been looking for

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Speaker 1: more information about Ebbie's phones in general. Remember Laurie told

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Speaker 1: us Ebbie had recently swapped phone owns with a friend.

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Speaker 1: That friend was Kaylee. Hello, Hey, is it Kayley? This

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Speaker 1: is Hey? If pepperd towns in Hi? Did I catch

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Speaker 1: you at a bad time? No, you're good. If you

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Speaker 1: hear my son though he's in bed with me, that's

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Speaker 1: absolutely fine. I have a Chihuahua and you'll probably hear

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Speaker 1: him throughout okay work at least sixth time. Kaylee has

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Speaker 1: been interviewed by other news outlets before, but this is

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Speaker 1: the first time her side of the story is being

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Speaker 1: told on the record. There has been tension between Ebbie's

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Speaker 1: family and Kaylee in the past. She believes that because

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Speaker 1: there was this tension between her and Ebbie's family, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the information she has said publicly hasn't been

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Speaker 1: used like I didn't want to do it and like

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Speaker 1: my side or like would I know, not be able

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Speaker 1: to be told? If that means yeah, I understand. Kaylee

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Speaker 1: met Ebbie in February twenty fifteen, they worked together playtime

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Speaker 1: and pizza. Even after they both quit those jobs, they

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Speaker 1: stayed friends. Ebbie got a job at foot locker at

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Speaker 1: McCain Mall, and Kayley also had a new job at

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Speaker 1: Big Rock Fun Park. Sometimes Ebbie would hang out with

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Speaker 1: Kaylee and Kayley's co workers. After Ebbie started clashing more

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Speaker 1: and more with her family, Kaylee told Ebbie that she

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Speaker 1: could stay at her house. So I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: you can come live with me for a little bit,

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Speaker 1: Like you can come stay with me, You don't need

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Speaker 1: to be in an environment like that. So I talked

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Speaker 1: to my mom and she ended up staying with me

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Speaker 1: for like a few weeks. And whilst she was staying

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Speaker 1: with me, she was still going to school and doing

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Speaker 1: what she's supposed to. Kayley says that Ebbie started staying

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Speaker 1: with her in September twenty fifteen, the month before Ebbie disappeared,

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Speaker 1: and stayed for a few weeks, and the whole time

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Speaker 1: it was really good. She was asking normal like everything

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Speaker 1: and was perfectularly sign she never hung out with guys

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Speaker 1: that she didn't know, and if she did mention to

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Speaker 1: do that, like while she was staying with me, Me

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Speaker 1: and my older sister Destiny would always be like, try

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Speaker 1: to tell her, like that's not safe, Like don't hang

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Speaker 1: out with anyone you don't know unless someone you know

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Speaker 1: is with you or people know exactly where you're at.

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Speaker 1: You would never hang out with like any random guys

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Speaker 1: like that or people she didn't know. Because Ebbie compartmentalized

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Speaker 1: her life and had these different friend groups, Kayley said

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Speaker 1: she didn't know any of the people who were at

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Speaker 1: the party on Friday. She also didn't know Leo, the

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Speaker 1: guy from the photographs. Kayley did go to Shalamant Park

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Speaker 1: with Ebbie. Chalamant Park is right in front of another

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Speaker 1: high school called Joe T. Robinson, the one that Kaylee

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Speaker 1: and some of her friends attended. They all went there

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Speaker 1: one time while Ebby was staying with Kayley sometimes, she said,

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Speaker 1: in September. It was around eleven pm. So we ended

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Speaker 1: up going to the park one night with two guys.

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Speaker 1: I just remember one of them. But I just remember

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Speaker 1: us going there one night, and that was the first

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Speaker 1: time I ever been there with her, and we'd like

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Speaker 1: the only time we ever went, so I didn't think

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Speaker 1: she went often. It was just like that one time,

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Speaker 1: but she knew where it was, but Ebie and Kayley

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Speaker 1: ended up leaving quickly. We ended up leaving because we

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Speaker 1: felt uncomfortable with those guys, and Eddie called him out

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Speaker 1: on it because Ebbie is the type of person that's

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Speaker 1: like very blunt and she'll tell you how she feels.

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Speaker 1: And the guys didn't really like it because she said

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Speaker 1: that she told one of them that he seems like

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Speaker 1: a pedophile or rape. Its like he's just being creepy,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't like that. So we ended up leaving

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Speaker 1: and never talked to them again, and after that we

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Speaker 1: never been to that park. I'm hoping that Kayley can

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Speaker 1: help us figure out who these two guys are. And

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Speaker 1: then Kayley told us about what had happened with phone.

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Speaker 1: She confirmed that they had switched devices. We ended up

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Speaker 1: like I ended up buying her phone and I gave

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Speaker 1: her my phone, like we just switched phone and sold

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Speaker 1: me her iPhone six I think it was, and I

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Speaker 1: let her have my five so my I guess somehow

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Speaker 1: my Apple i'd was still in that phone, so anytime

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Speaker 1: she took like pictures of screenshots, I would get it

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Speaker 1: on my phone. The last time that Kaylie saw Ebbie

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Speaker 1: was early October twenty fifteen. She ended up saying she

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Speaker 1: could go stay with her dad, so it was probably

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Speaker 1: like the beginning of October. So the last time I

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Speaker 1: actually got to hang out with her like that. The

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Speaker 1: last time I spoke to her was that Friday before

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Speaker 1: she went missing, because we made plans to hang out

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Speaker 1: that Sunday. She was supposed to come back from a

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Speaker 1: trip that she was going to take with one of

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Speaker 1: her friends. But then after that I found out she

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Speaker 1: went missing and I didn't hear from her again. Did

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Speaker 1: she tell you where she was supposed to go on

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Speaker 1: Saturday night? She said that that Friday she was like

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Speaker 1: me and my friend. She didn't tell me what friends,

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Speaker 1: but she was like, me and my friends are going

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Speaker 1: out of town on a trip, like for the weekend.

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Speaker 1: But apparently it went it got canceled, so she ended

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Speaker 1: up not going. But I didn't know that part. I

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Speaker 1: just knew she was going out of town for the weekend.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember where. Kayley does not remember exactly who

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Speaker 1: Ebbie was supposed to take this trip with, but I

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Speaker 1: just know she said that she was going to go

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Speaker 1: out of town and then that Sunday she came back,

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Speaker 1: we said, hang out. We know that we can eliminate

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Speaker 1: Kayley's house from where Ebbie was on Saturday night. So

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Speaker 1: that means that whoever Ebbie was staying with wasn't any

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Speaker 1: of the people who she was staying with after she

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Speaker 1: left home. We'll be right back. After Ebbie went missing,

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Speaker 1: Kayley said that she was worried that the police were

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Speaker 1: not investigating, so one day, she and her mom decided

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Speaker 1: to go to Chamont Park themselves. Even though Detective Tommy

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Speaker 1: Hudson would later say that they could not have smelled

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Speaker 1: decomposition from where they were, Kayley says she will never

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Speaker 1: forget what she saw and smelled that day. We've heard

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Speaker 1: this story secondhand, but here it is in Kayley's own words.

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Speaker 1: So after we talked to them, we went to the

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Speaker 1: park and my mom walked over there. First. She instantly

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Speaker 1: with the drainage type. She was like, Kayley, no, don't

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Speaker 1: come down here, like stay up there, and I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm comming like I want to know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: So I went down there and I smelled it too,

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Speaker 1: And so my mom ended up calling the cops multiple times,

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Speaker 1: probably three or four, and then they finally came out

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Speaker 1: and investigated it, like they just lifted it up and

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, it's sewage and called it a day,

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Speaker 1: which it upset me so much because I was like, literally,

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Speaker 1: like you guys could have found her two weeks after

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Speaker 1: she went missing and known like exactly what happened to her.

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Speaker 1: Kaylee went back to the park herself to check the

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Speaker 1: man hole. Me and my friend Lace at the time,

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Speaker 1: I was like, can we go down there and see

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Speaker 1: if we could go investigate that. We were what, like

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Speaker 1: it was twenty fifteen, so I was like sixteen seventeen

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Speaker 1: at the time, so not the smartness, but I was like,

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Speaker 1: let's go see if we can go down there and

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Speaker 1: see if like we can see anything, because obviously the

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Speaker 1: cops aren't taking it seriously. But even if Ebie did

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Speaker 1: want to go down there, there was no way she

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Speaker 1: could have fit to shimmy herself down there and that

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Speaker 1: drain Like me and my friend couldn't even pick it up.

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Speaker 1: It was too heavy. There's no way she could have

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Speaker 1: done it herself and moved it back. So like that series,

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Speaker 1: this makes no sense. And the way that the ladder

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Speaker 1: was it was like on the back side, so like

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Speaker 1: if she did get in there, she would have to

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Speaker 1: like stretch across to the other side of the hole

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Speaker 1: to get even to the ladder thing. How would she

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Speaker 1: have possibly done that? So Kaylee also does not believe

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Speaker 1: that Ebbie would have gone down there herself. Whenever they

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Speaker 1: told me that they found everything in her vehicle. Ebbie

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Speaker 1: wasn't the type of person to leave her purse or

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Speaker 1: her phone or anything like that anywhere, Like she always

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Speaker 1: had to have it with her because she was always

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Speaker 1: about taking pictures in videos then like all types of

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. So like whenever they said she left

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Speaker 1: her phone and everything like that was a red flag

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Speaker 1: to me because it wasn't that type of person to

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Speaker 1: just be nons a lot and leave everything and not

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Speaker 1: think about it. There's been a lot of confusion about

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Speaker 1: her what she might have been on the day that

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Speaker 1: she called her brother. Yes, do you know what kind

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Speaker 1: of drives she may have done? She only smoked wead,

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Speaker 1: And even then I tried to get her to stop,

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Speaker 1: but she only smoked weed. And that's the only thing

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Speaker 1: I knew she was messing with. And she only did

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Speaker 1: it with the people she was like hanging out outside

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Speaker 1: of me because I wasn't a smoker, so I was like, Eavy, like,

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Speaker 1: it's better if you don't do that because it can

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Speaker 1: lead you like you could do something really hard, or

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Speaker 1: like someone that you don't know could like lay something

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Speaker 1: and like they can really hurt. Kayleie also heard about

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Speaker 1: the towel. My mom smelt it where the car was

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Speaker 1: parked and the towel was leading into the drain, which

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Speaker 1: we found that out the day that we found out

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Speaker 1: about her car, because they said that there was like

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Speaker 1: a towel leading into the drain, which that's obviously like

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Speaker 1: something like why wouldn't you want to look in there?

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Speaker 1: If there's a towel leading into the drain on the ground,

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Speaker 1: why wouldn't you look in the drain? To begin with?

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Speaker 1: It looked like a red color, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: we didn't have the red towel. Like Ebbie never carried

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Speaker 1: around the towel, but apparently it was a towel from

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Speaker 1: her brother's house, because whenever she stopped moving living with me,

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Speaker 1: she ended up moving in with her dad and then

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Speaker 1: apparently she moved in with her brother, and I think

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Speaker 1: the towel was like the brothers, like she took it

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Speaker 1: from her brother's house or something, and that's what they said,

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Speaker 1: but that's a lie. I just know that it was,

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Speaker 1: like the detective said, it was next to her car,

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Speaker 1: leading like into the dream. So now we know where

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Speaker 1: the towel came from. It came from Ebbie's brother's house,

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Speaker 1: so it must have come out of her car. Kayley

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Speaker 1: says that Ebbie was planning to give her her phone back,

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Speaker 1: and that the screen was cracked, so that could explain

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Speaker 1: why there was a receipt for what appeared to be

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Speaker 1: a page you Go phone inside Ebbie's car. If she

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Speaker 1: was planning to give the iPhone five back, maybe she

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Speaker 1: bought a second phone as a backup. I asked Kaylee

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Speaker 1: what happened to her phone when police first questioned her,

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Speaker 1: Well after she went missing, do you remember were you

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Speaker 1: still getting her pictures in your clouds? I did get

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Speaker 1: like whenever I found out she was actually missing, and

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Speaker 1: I had to talk to your depressive I look in

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Speaker 1: like the screenshot part and whenever the last stuff I

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Speaker 1: got was like, I actually have the pictures. I can

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Speaker 1: look at the days I have them in my email.

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Speaker 1: She says. The last screenshot she got from that phone

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Speaker 1: was something that sounds like the text exchange that we

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Speaker 1: saw between Ebbie and C about the video. You don't

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Speaker 1: still have the phone, do you? No, the police ever

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Speaker 1: gave it back to me, Like they wouldn't give it

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Speaker 1: back to me, like the phone, so they took it.

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Speaker 1: They tried to take the phone that I had, and

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Speaker 1: at first they were like, well, you don't need we're

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Speaker 1: not going to take the phone. Just give us everything

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Speaker 1: you need, so like them everything that could possibly helped him.

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Speaker 1: And then they tried to again take my phone. But

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Speaker 1: the phone that was Ebby's was originally mine, like Ebby

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Speaker 1: didn't pay for it, so I was supposed to get

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Speaker 1: that back and they never gave that back. So I

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Speaker 1: never got that one back. But they never actually physically

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Speaker 1: took mine because my parents were like, we gave you

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Speaker 1: everything you went through her phone, there's nothing else, like,

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Speaker 1: there's no reason for you to keep her phone if

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Speaker 1: she's cooperating and gave you everything that you guys asked for.

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Speaker 1: So they never actually took it. But I ended up

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Speaker 1: trading that in because it's been years, so I ended

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Speaker 1: up getting a new phone. I think of twenty seventeen

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Speaker 1: and I haven't had that phone since Detective Bruce Maxwell

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Speaker 1: has said that he's looked through Ebbie's phone all six

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Speaker 1: thousand photos that are on there. But I wonder if

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Speaker 1: there could be anything still in the cloud, still in

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Speaker 1: Kaylee's phone that could help us. She says she's going

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Speaker 1: to give us her eye cloud log in. So now

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Speaker 1: we're going to touch base with Mike and go through

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Speaker 1: everything that Kaylee has. Like so many among investigations, you

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Speaker 1: reach a point where it's a waiting game. So I'm

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Speaker 1: playing phone tag with sources or just waiting until a

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Speaker 1: source changes their mind and wants to talk. And instead

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Speaker 1: of reporting any more second or third hand stories, we're

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Speaker 1: trying our best to get to the source of all

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Speaker 1: these rumors. There's another source who's done a lot of

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Speaker 1: investigating to Ebby's death, and she just told me Ebbie's

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Speaker 1: body might not have been found in the way the

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Speaker 1: police reported it. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone.

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Speaker 1: Helen Gone is a production of School of Humans and iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's written and hosted by me Katherine Townsend and produced

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Speaker 1: by Gabby Watts and Mike doubt Our executive producers or

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Speaker 1: Brandon Barr, Elsie Crowley, and Virginia Prescott. Mix and Master

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Speaker 1: is by Ryan Peoples and our music is by Ben Sale.

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Speaker 1: If you have any information regarding Ebbie's case, please call

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Speaker 1: our tipline at six seven eight six three two six

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Speaker 1: one five nine School of Humans. School of Humans