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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Donald Trump shared a video referencing

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Speaker 1: a unified Reich. We have such a great show for

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Speaker 1: you today. Colorado Governor Jared Paulus stops by to talk

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Speaker 1: to us about what's going on in his state. Then

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Speaker 1: we'll talk to Ari Berman about his new book, Minority Rule,

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Speaker 1: the right wing attack on the will of the people

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Speaker 1: and the fight to resist it. But first we have

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Speaker 1: the host of the Focus Group podcast, the publisher of

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Speaker 1: The Bulwark, Sarah Longwell, Welcome back to Fast Politics. Sarah Longwoll, Hey,

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Speaker 1: what's going on?

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Speaker 2: Nothing.

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Speaker 1: We were just talking about what we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about and my anxiety about American democracy. I think we

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Speaker 1: should start by talking about something that is actually really

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Speaker 1: positive for Joe Biden. We're still seeing Nikki Haley winning

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Speaker 1: between sometimes as little as ten, sometimes as much as

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Speaker 1: thirty percent of the vote in the Republican primaries. She

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Speaker 1: has not been in this election for a number of months.

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Speaker 1: It's like a zombie campaign. What do you make of that?

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Speaker 3: Well, the biggest coalition in American politics is an anti

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Speaker 3: Trump coalition, and I don't think it has anything to

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Speaker 3: do with Nicki Haley whatsoever. I just think voters are

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Speaker 3: when given an opportunity to vote against Donald Trump, there's

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Speaker 3: a highly motivated section of voters, many of whom are

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Speaker 3: in the Republican Party, who will turn out to vote

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Speaker 3: against Trump. And look, I've been saying this for a

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Speaker 3: while about the Nicki Haley voters. Some of those voters

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Speaker 3: are already voting for Joe Biden. Some of those voters

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Speaker 3: are going to come home to Donald Trump, and then

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Speaker 3: the rest we got to fight over because they are

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Speaker 3: the double haters.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 3: Those are the people who they don't like Joe Biden,

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Speaker 3: they don't like Donald Trump, they don't want to vote

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Speaker 3: for either guy. A lot of them are RFK curious.

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Speaker 3: And this is the swing voter this time, is people

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Speaker 3: who are not happy with either person, which is why

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Speaker 3: it's going to be a super depressing campaign because it's

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Speaker 3: not about who anybody likes, It's not about anything affirmative.

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Speaker 4: It is all who hates who more.

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Speaker 3: It's one of the reasons that I think that Trump's

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Speaker 3: numbers are continuing to hold in a positive direction for him,

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Speaker 3: not the country is because look, Joe Biden is top

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Speaker 3: of mind for people, and so they reach for him

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Speaker 3: with their frustrations over inflation or crime or immigration. And

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump as he sits in a courtroom and talks

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Speaker 3: about a hush money payment that was made back in

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Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, people are looking backwards on Trump. They're not

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Speaker 3: looking forward about what he might do. And I think

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Speaker 3: that that conversation. I'm not saying that the cases are

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Speaker 3: bad for Joe Biden or that they're good for Trump.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are saying, oh, this

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Speaker 3: is going to make people more motivated to vote for Trump.

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Speaker 3: Anybody who's going to vote for Trump because he's in

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Speaker 3: court was already going to vote for Donald Trump. And

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Speaker 3: I think that if he is convicted on the margins,

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Speaker 3: it has some negative impact on Trump.

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Speaker 1: Right, it doesn't have a positive impact. No, I think

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Speaker 1: that's an insane hill to die on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, people get lost in the primary mindset, right, where

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Speaker 3: that everything that Donald Trump that's like weird about him

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Speaker 3: helps him, which is true in a primary, it's not

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Speaker 3: true in a general.

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Speaker 4: It's not.

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Speaker 1: Also, like Republican primary voters who are still with Trump

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Speaker 1: are a completely different breed than anyone else voting in

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Speaker 1: this election.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, I say this all the time,

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Speaker 3: as for me, as like a real bedrock of what's

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Speaker 3: happening right now, which is that the gap between what

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Speaker 3: Republican base voters want and what sort of moderate swing

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Speaker 3: voters will tolerate. That gap has gotten really wide. So like,

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Speaker 3: just let me give you one quick example. Town in

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Speaker 3: North Carolina. You got this guy Mark Robinson running for governor.

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Speaker 3: Dude is looney toots, right, He's a holocaust denier, says

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Speaker 3: gay people are filth, has some real weird views on women,

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Speaker 3: call the Parkland shooting kids prostitutes. So not a great dude.

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Speaker 3: And he won the Republican primary in a landslip. He

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Speaker 3: won by sixty five percent the Republican primary, but he's

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Speaker 3: polling in the low forties. And the guy Josh Stein,

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Speaker 3: who's kind of just a mainstream LIB running against him,

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Speaker 3: is just trouncing him and all the polling, and we

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Speaker 3: just did a bunch of focus groups on this, so

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Speaker 3: what's top of mind for me? But that, to me

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Speaker 3: is a good illustration of this gap. But I'll give

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Speaker 3: you a negative theory that I'm holding onto that I've

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Speaker 3: started formulating from the groups, which is one of the

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Speaker 3: weird things byproducts of Republicans nominating just absolutely batshit crazy

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Speaker 3: candidates like Mark Robinson, like Kerry Lake, like herschel Walker.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's a bunch of them in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: Is that Trump starts to look less insane by comparison

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Speaker 3: because they're so out there and so like in North Carolina,

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Speaker 3: Trump is still in every average, winning by about seven

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Speaker 3: percentage points, which means there's a ton of people And

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Speaker 3: I just talked to this group of people, a ton

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Speaker 3: of people who for whom Trump is totally acceptable and

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Speaker 3: Mark Robinson is not.

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Speaker 2: That's strange, but real. Why do you think that is?

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Speaker 3: Some of its abortion people don't view Trump as extreme

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Speaker 3: on social issues. They think of him as sort of

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Speaker 3: a cultural moderate as a result of years of them

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Speaker 3: seeing him just in the media being well, they don't

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Speaker 3: think this is this guy of sexual morality, you know, right,

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Speaker 3: They think he's paid for abortions. People say that in

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Speaker 3: the groups all the time, and so like, they just

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Speaker 3: don't believe, which is which is one of Trump's superpowers, right,

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Speaker 3: He's able to weirdly hawk Bibles and hold them upside down.

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Speaker 3: And be like, see Christians on one of you, while

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Speaker 3: everybody who's more secular and moderate completely being like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this guy's not a real Christian and he's not going

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Speaker 3: to do what the Mike Pence or Mike Robinson or

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Speaker 3: anybody else who's sort of deeply who's actually ideologically or

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Speaker 3: religiously committed to some of this stuff.

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Speaker 4: So, look, there's a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of bad news I think, both in the polling

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Speaker 3: and the focus groups right now.

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Speaker 2: So I want you to talk focus groups.

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Speaker 1: I hate Paul's and I sure saying that's why I

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Speaker 1: do focus groups.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, where are you focus grouping? And what are you seeing?

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Speaker 3: We're still it's early enough that we're still doing lots

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Speaker 3: of different places, but we're focused on the Swing states

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Speaker 3: more than anything else. We're talking to a lot of

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Speaker 3: these double haters, and we're also talking to a lot

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Speaker 3: of two time Trump voters who rate him very unfavorably.

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Speaker 3: Because we're trying to figure out who's gettable. The reason

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Speaker 3: I was starting with sort of the directionally bad news, like,

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Speaker 3: look I see in the double haters or swing voters.

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Speaker 3: So these are people who voted for Trump and sixteen

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Speaker 3: voted for Biden in twenty if you do a group

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Speaker 3: of those, you know, there's usually a few of them

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Speaker 3: in the group who are either going back to Trump

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Speaker 3: or who want to vote for RFK and not Biden.

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Speaker 3: On the flip side of that, though, there is a

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Speaker 3: whole new group of people. This is my most optimistic

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Speaker 3: thing that I've seen. There's a whole new group of

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Speaker 3: people who voted for Trump twice and will not vote

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Speaker 3: for him again. Now they won't vote for Biden. But

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Speaker 3: I suspect there's going to be a very large segment

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Speaker 3: of the Republican voting population that will leave it blank.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of those voters are kind of these Reagan,

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Speaker 3: Romney McCain Republicans who held their nose and votvoted for

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Speaker 3: Trump both times. But the insurrection, the lying about the election,

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Speaker 3: it was a last straw. And there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: these voters in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, and I hope

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Speaker 3: Nebraska too. And also my other optimistic piece is that

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Speaker 3: in some of these tough states like Arizona's a tough state,

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Speaker 3: the slide with Hispanics is going to hurt in Arizona.

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Speaker 3: But Arizona's been trending toward Democrats. Carrie Lake is on

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Speaker 3: the ballot again, which is bad for Trump because she's

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Speaker 3: a nut.

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Speaker 2: She's such a nut, she's the worst.

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Speaker 4: She's the worst.

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Speaker 3: And like there will be people who vote for the

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Speaker 3: Democrat in that Senate race and vote for Trump.

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Speaker 2: Insane. Yes, but here's the thing.

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Speaker 3: They're going to get a ballot initiative about abortion in Arizona,

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Speaker 3: and I think that's really gonna help. And so I

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Speaker 3: still think there's two keys to this election, to winning

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Speaker 3: it and saving democracy. One is I wish that RFK

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Speaker 3: wasn't in this race, because anything that splits up that

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Speaker 3: anti Trump coalition is bad. But if he's gonna be

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Speaker 3: in the race, and he's going to be on the ballot,

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Speaker 3: then everybody better figure out how to make these voters

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Speaker 3: understand Democratic voters that voting for him is a terrible

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Speaker 3: idea and help Trump voters understand he's their guy. And

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Speaker 3: I think making sure that he works as a as

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Speaker 3: somebody who can peel off Trump voters is going to

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Speaker 3: be essential. Like we're just going to have to play that.

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Speaker 2: Game, right, And he is anti vax.

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Speaker 3: He's anti vax. He's also sort of anti establishment. And

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Speaker 3: because I've done a lot of groups around RFK. One

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Speaker 3: of the things that's interesting about Republican voters in RFK

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Speaker 3: is that there's nothing they love more than a Democrat

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Speaker 3: who turns on other Democrats, right, they love it, and

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Speaker 3: so he has a lot to offer them. They also

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Speaker 3: hate a regular politician, they love an outsider, and they

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Speaker 3: love an insider outsider.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good point. So RFK has a lot

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Speaker 2: for those voters.

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Speaker 4: And that's one thing you gotta do. You got to

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Speaker 4: make O RFK work for you.

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Speaker 3: That's going to be just a strategic game that people

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Speaker 3: are going to have to figure out how to play.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting because clearly Trump has seen that Republicans

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Speaker 1: are RFK Junior curious, so he'll be less the guy

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Speaker 1: is a crazy liberal.

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Speaker 2: You've heard that, right, of.

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Speaker 4: Course, I've heard that.

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Speaker 3: You know, Trump figured out a little belatedly that his

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Speaker 3: voters liked RFK. Now, some of Biden's do too, Like

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Speaker 3: there's just a lot of dams who are kind of like, oh, Kennedy,

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Speaker 3: he looks at a spry seventy, he looks younger than

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden, and then he likes the environments. There's some

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Speaker 3: of that and like you're just gonna have to that's

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Speaker 3: an education game. That is an affirmative education game you're

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Speaker 3: gonna have to do. And then here's the other thing.

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Speaker 3: There's the other thing that's going to win this race,

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Speaker 3: save democracy, reelect Joe Biden. Which is one of the

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Speaker 3: reasons I like focus groups and not pulling. Is it

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Speaker 3: gauges intensity. And the thing about the double haters, we

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Speaker 3: call them that because they're people who don't want to

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Speaker 3: vote for either guy, but they don't actually hate Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: They Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: They just are like about Joe Biden, like they just

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Speaker 3: make guttural noises about why this is their choice. Which

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Speaker 3: means that you got to run the hardest, toughest, relentlessly

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Speaker 3: negative campaign against Trump to help people understand what a

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Speaker 3: second Trump term's going to look like, the fact that

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Speaker 3: he's not gonna leave, the fact that he's going to

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Speaker 3: be a lunatic surrounded by other lunatics, and you gotta

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Speaker 3: go negative so hard every day, relent big saragate game.

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Speaker 3: I think that people are going to have to like

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Speaker 3: stop kind of wringing their hands. You know, you can't

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Speaker 3: roll up your sleeves when you're wringing your hands man,

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Speaker 3: and you gotta go hard.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting what you're saying, because Biden has definitely got

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Speaker 1: He's got two big problems here.

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Speaker 2: One is Hispanic support and.

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Speaker 1: The other is younger Black voters and younger voters too.

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Speaker 1: But I always think of younger voters are kind of

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Speaker 1: an oxymoron, right, like, you're going to get some of them,

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Speaker 1: You're not going to get all of them. They're young.

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Speaker 1: But I know because I have a college kid who

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you have to go and fucking vote and

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Speaker 1: take as many people as you can. He goes to

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Speaker 1: a small college, but he told me there are two

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Speaker 1: people he thinks are going to go from his college

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Speaker 1: to vote, and I was like, oh Jesus Christ. But

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Speaker 1: the point is, I do think Trump is also hemorrhaging support.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think this is going to be like

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Speaker 1: the opposite of twenty twenty, you know, a lower turnout

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Speaker 1: election where it's still tight.

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Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I mean, I think I think that

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Speaker 3: is a entirely plausible scenario. I think that enthusiasm is

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Speaker 3: really down overall, and the lower turnout election in the

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Speaker 3: off season elections, it's really helped Democrats because the people

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Speaker 3: who reliably show up to vote tend to be these

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Speaker 3: college educated suburban voters who increasingly vote with Democrats. It's

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Speaker 3: why you saw in Wisconsin the Supreme Court election, the

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Speaker 3: Democrat pro to Saowitz win by like ten points in

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Speaker 3: a place like Wisconsin right off your election. And so look, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean you gotta hope that enthusiasm's really down for Trump,

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Speaker 3: that people either don't come out for him or they

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Speaker 3: leave it blank.

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Speaker 2: So it could be.

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Speaker 1: Look, I don't know, and more importantly, we don't know

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Speaker 1: what's happening, and we just we know what we're seeing

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Speaker 1: right now more than you know one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: days from the election.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, one of the reasons it's super hard

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Speaker 3: to predict is when you have two functional incmbents running

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Speaker 3: against each other, people don't feel like they need to

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Speaker 3: tune in. I mean, this is the thing with the

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Speaker 3: focus groups, Like people are they know Trump's in court

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Speaker 3: for one of the cases, but like they're not following it.

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Speaker 3: They're kind of like these two choices. You know, I've

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Speaker 3: been saying to people, it's like the voters have been

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Speaker 3: going through the five stages of grief, where like the

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Speaker 3: anger that these guys were running again, like that anger

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Speaker 3: is those Nikki Haley voters. It's Joe Biden's low approval numbers.

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Speaker 3: There's the bargaining, which is the third party no labels stuff,

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Speaker 3: the RFK, the maybe Kamalo will step down, maybe Joe

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Speaker 3: Biden will still step down. There's like depression, which I

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Speaker 3: think we're in now.

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Speaker 1: And I want to fact check myself. It's one hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty eight days to the election, not one hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty.

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Speaker 2: Okay, cool.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, My point is just like we're still a long

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Speaker 3: way from acceptance, and when we hit that phase, I

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Speaker 3: do think like we'll see things move, but like we're

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Speaker 3: not there yet.

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Speaker 2: I also do think like democrats.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to a member of Congress today, one

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Speaker 1: of those members of Congress who's like a ranking member,

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Speaker 1: very smart, but not anyone you've heard of. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, what's your taake on this right,

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Speaker 1: because there are so many members of Congress that have

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Speaker 1: the people no one knows who the fuck they are.

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Speaker 1: Excuse my friend, I, what's your tea this? And he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I see Democrats overperforming, but I also know

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Speaker 1: that Biden world takes us all very very seriously. And

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Speaker 1: is running a very disciplined campaign, which is why they're

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Speaker 1: going to Pennsylvania and they're going to Wisconsin, and they're

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Speaker 1: going to you know, but it is going to be

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Speaker 1: just a miserable one hundred and sixty eight days.

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Speaker 3: It is, and we're going to live with an extraordinary

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Speaker 3: amount of anxiety. But people want to know what they

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Speaker 3: can do. And some of it is like, you know,

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Speaker 3: be part of turning the vibes around. Go out there,

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Speaker 3: push hard for Biden, like there's no point in being depressed,

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Speaker 3: Like we got to do the work. Make sure you know,

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Speaker 3: Biden's most people's No, it's not their first choice, but.

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Speaker 4: Got to dance with the guy who brought you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I also would like to add that he wasn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily the first choice in twenty twenty either, but the

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Speaker 1: coalition got behind him, I think largely because there was

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Speaker 1: a feeling that he was very electable against Trump.

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Speaker 2: That calculus.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's a little older, I get it, Orgu's

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Speaker 1: foot whatever, but that calculus has not largely changed. I mean,

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Speaker 1: remember they tried an impeachment and it didn't work because

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Speaker 1: their their lead witness ended up in jail.

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Speaker 3: Republicans, Yeah, I mean, I don't want to be a

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Speaker 3: super downer. I do think running with a record in

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Speaker 3: an anti incumbent environment, which we are just like perpetually

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Speaker 3: in now, like incumbentcy has lost some of its juice

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Speaker 3: that it used to have. But I still think Joe

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Speaker 3: Biden can win this. I am like less optimistic about

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Speaker 3: places like Nevada and Georgia, but I remain pretty optimistic

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Speaker 3: about Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, you know, Nebraska too, and Arizona,

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Speaker 3: and I think, you know, you just that's I don't

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Speaker 3: think anybody's getting fancy with Florida and North Carolina, but

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Speaker 3: that's what he's got to Do's got to hold those

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Speaker 3: blue wall states.

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Speaker 1: It's a tough Senate map, but it's a weird state map.

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Speaker 2: What are you seeing?

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Speaker 1: Do you have any hot takes on the Senate?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 3: My biggest hot take is something we were talking about

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Speaker 3: on the focus group pod recently, which is politics is

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Speaker 3: changing quite a bit, and we don't have of a

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Speaker 3: lot of new examples sort of moderates being able to

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Speaker 3: win over the other party, like in these really red states,

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Speaker 3: like that's getting less and less frequent, where you've got

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Speaker 3: like a Democrat that gets elected in a super red state.

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Speaker 4: But the places where it still happens or where.

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Speaker 3: You can get a non Maga Republican elected is people

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Speaker 3: whose reputations precede the Trump era. And so when you

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Speaker 3: take a guy like Shared Brown or a guy like

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Speaker 3: John Tester, you just have a situation where their reputations

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Speaker 3: were forged before all of this stuff. And I think

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Speaker 3: that that who and I can give you like some

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Speaker 3: reverse examples of that, which is like a Mike the

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Speaker 3: Wine in Ohio who MAGA hates Mike de Wine because

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Speaker 3: he's kind of a moderate Republican, or even Kemp in Georgia.

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Speaker 3: You know, Kemp's been able to withstand it, and that's

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Speaker 3: because they forged their identities with their voters and their

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Speaker 3: relationships with their voters pre Trump. And I just think

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Speaker 3: that's true of Shared Brown, it's true of Tester.

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Speaker 2: Case in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in Pennsylvania. And so that I think is one

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Speaker 3: of the things that seems to.

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Speaker 1: Help Tammy Baldwin though that's a good one, But I

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Speaker 1: think Minnesota being on the map is bullshit, Like Trump

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Speaker 1: trying to get Minnesota, like that's just a dumb news story.

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Speaker 1: He's trying to bait people with Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I don't think Trump's going to do well in Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're smarter. They're smarter than that, I mean.

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Speaker 1: Sarah Longwell, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me. Love doing it.

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Speaker 1: Spring us here and I bet you are trying to

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Speaker 1: look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable all

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Speaker 1: new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store

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Speaker 1: and top bags. To grab some, head to fastpolitics dot com.

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Speaker 1: Jared Polis is the governor of Colorado. Welcome to Fast Politics, Governor.

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Speaker 5: Paulas Molly, could you hear your voice?

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Speaker 1: You are the governor of Colorado, but you also have

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Speaker 1: a number of interesting things about you. You've been into

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Speaker 1: pot before pot was hot, Well not literally, Molly, not literally. Obviously.

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Speaker 5: This is the biggest, you know, scandal I have as

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Speaker 5: governor of Colorado's I've never actually tried it. So that's

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Speaker 5: now that I never have to run again, I can

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Speaker 5: confine with you.

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Speaker 1: Pot legalization is now pretty much a thing.

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Speaker 5: It kind of stems from like a basic value, bodily autonomy,

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Speaker 5: you know, choice, freedom of course, people should be able

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Speaker 5: to use marijuana recreationally just as they use alcohol. Doesn't

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Speaker 5: mean I'm pro alcoholic pro marijuana. These are choices people make.

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Speaker 4: People make good.

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Speaker 5: Choices, bad choices, and different choices. It's up to everybody

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Speaker 5: to live their own lives. Obviously marijuana is part of that.

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Speaker 4: And you're right.

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Speaker 5: I was at the pot party before it became the

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Speaker 5: popular party. I was always for legal marijuana back when

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Speaker 5: you know, Colorado was one the first date to do it. Actually,

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Speaker 5: I supported the ballot inshative.

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Speaker 1: Wait, so you're term limited out as governor, but you

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Speaker 1: still might run for something else.

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Speaker 5: Well, two and a half years left, and I hope

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Speaker 5: my failure to try marijuana doesn't pull me down.

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Speaker 1: But just because you can't run for governor again doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean you won't run for something else.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I not something I think about, LOLLI.

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Speaker 5: But if I do, I don't think the lack of

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Speaker 5: trying marijuana will be the end of it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, I've moved on from the marijuana at this point.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad.

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Speaker 5: I'm glad. It was sort of a fling in your youth, Lolly.

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Speaker 5: You just had a brief like in college or something.

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Speaker 1: Well, No, I've been sober since I was a teenager.

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Speaker 4: Good for you, good believe it or not.

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Speaker 1: So I don't have any particular personal horse in the

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Speaker 1: marijuana stuff race.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad you've moved on.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I know that it's wildly popular, and I know

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Speaker 1: that you have these libertarian leanings despite being a Democrat,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like right now is a time when

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Speaker 1: there is a wide lane.

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Speaker 2: For libertarians in the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 4: Well, I would say probably in both parties.

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Speaker 5: There's an opportunity for that because you know, anybody who

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Speaker 5: speaks the language of freedom, of choice, of empowerment, I

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Speaker 5: think that can be a winning message.

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Speaker 4: On either side.

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Speaker 5: It's one that's often not heard enough on either side either.

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Speaker 5: So it's certainly always been part of what I've talked

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Speaker 5: about as a member of Congress and now as governor.

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Speaker 1: Is it really available in both parties because like what

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing on the Republican side, certainly not maybe not

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Speaker 1: from a Mitch McConnell, but certainly from Madonald Trump is

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Speaker 1: a lot and the Heritage Foundation is a lot of

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Speaker 1: interest in regulation, whether it comes to IVF or birth

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Speaker 1: control pills or abortion.

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Speaker 5: Oh no, absolutely, the main serare Republican party is very

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Speaker 5: much command and control or strict freedom. I'm talking about

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Speaker 5: folks like Justin Amash and back in the day, Ron

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Speaker 5: Paul Lesso, his son. But yeah, absolutely there's a lane there.

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Speaker 5: You see people doing it, but it's you know, it's

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Speaker 5: it's lonely on either side sometimes, but certainly in terms

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Speaker 5: of the bodily autonomy, personal freedom side, a lot better

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Speaker 5: time to be a Democrat to support Democrat. Republicans are

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Speaker 5: really trying to control everything people do through government.

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Speaker 1: I mean you're saying that statement, I'm thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: It's such an insane time in American politics because that

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Speaker 1: maybe it was what they set out to do. But

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Speaker 1: I think the party's gone really far afield. You are

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Speaker 1: in Colorado. It has become a really reliably blue state.

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Speaker 1: How do you think Democrats have won hearts of minds

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Speaker 1: in Colorado?

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Speaker 5: So, I think the important thing you know about Colorado

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Speaker 5: for you and your listeners is it's really an independent state.

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Speaker 5: The plurality of voters and actually, quite soon, Molly, it'll

438
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 5: be the actual majority of voters will be unaffiliated voters,

439
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 5: neither Democratic nor Republican, and they're on loan to the Democrats. Yes,

440
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 5: they're supporting Democrats, doesn't mean they're in love with Democrats,

441
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 5: but frankly, they're not Donald Trump Republicans, to be clear.

442
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 5: So the state they're waiting for, George Bush, mid Romney

443
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 5: ran strong here. Obama was also very strong, But this

444
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 5: is not a Donald Trump state. It's very well educated

445
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 5: and thoughtful Republicans. And you know, again, I think they

446
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,120
Speaker 5: can win the independent vote, but not with the candidates

447
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 5: that they've been running lately, and so those inde bed

448
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 5: votes have been on owned Democrats, which is why right

449
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 5: now Democrats control both US Senate SA, it's both chambers

450
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 5: of the state legislature.

451
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,119
Speaker 1: You have gotten a bunch of Democrats mad at you

452
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 1: recently because six spills.

453
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 2: You vetoed talk to us about that.

454
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 4: What were year?

455
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,880
Speaker 5: I mean year, I veto some bills. I think last

456
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 5: year was the year I vto the most ten. But

457
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 5: keep in mind, I sign, you know, three hundred or so.

458
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm just curious.

459
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 1: There are endless problems with legislation, and some of them

460
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 1: are sort of you know, just with the legislation being

461
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: badly written or I'm just curious with the.

462
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say every year. It changes year to year,

463
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 5: but usually the majority the concept is okay, but it

464
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 5: just wasn't sort of fixed. The words aren't right, and

465
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 5: it has unintended consequences. So I feel it's better for

466
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 5: them to go back and work on it for another

467
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 5: year rather than you know, deal with the product that

468
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 5: could lead to the wrong outcomes. So that's probably seventy

469
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 5: percent of the time. The thirty percent of the time

470
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 5: it's one that I disagree with or just you know,

471
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 5: don't think it's a good way to go. So it

472
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 5: just sort of depends on the bill. But I every

473
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 5: single bill that reaches me. In the way our legislature

474
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 5: works in Colorado, Moley, each legislator gets five bills sixty

475
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 5: five and hours thirty five cent. That's five hundred bills.

476
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 5: There's a few special bills, but usually there's about four

477
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 5: hundred that reach me, or so three to four hundred

478
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 5: each one. I get a legal analysis, policy analysis, fiscal analysis,

479
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 5: make a decision, and that's how that works. So, you know,

480
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 5: like any executive, I don't have a formative role a

481
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 5: lawmake you know, That's what I did when I was

482
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 5: a member of Congress. But I do have a yay

483
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 5: or at a at the end.

484
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what are the sort of things that you're

485
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: because you are, you know, seeing different voters than I am,

486
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 1: and you're talking to people and you really got a

487
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: good sense of the state. What are the sort of

488
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: things that people care about your constituents Right.

489
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 5: Now, that's a number one in Colorado. Probably it's the

490
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,959
Speaker 5: same across country as costs. Just costs have gone up,

491
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 5: and housing here is front and central, as it is

492
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 5: in not every market, but many markets, because part of

493
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 5: what drives it is interest in mortgage rates, right, so

494
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 5: that's been tougher everywhere. But on top of that, we've

495
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 5: had a significant run up in the cost of a hole.

496
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 5: But on top of it's groceries, it's gas, it's all

497
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 5: that inflation, insurance, right, all those things. So we really

498
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 5: focused our agenda around, you know, reducing cost, reducing taxes,

499
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 5: saving people money. That's a big part of what we

500
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,640
Speaker 5: talk about. Housing reforums we might get into. We've done

501
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 5: a lot of that to build more housing. That's really

502
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 5: the number one issue right now, i'd say, followed probably

503
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 5: by public safety, and then you know, like always education

504
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 5: strong perennial issue. People care about their kids, in schools

505
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 5: and education opportunities.

506
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: So you did sign into law House Built thirteen thirteen

507
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: in which is a zoning law basically helping build multi

508
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: story houses. These are the things that you have to

509
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: sort of push up against. How is that going? And

510
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: is there a lot of resistance?

511
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 4: Yeah?

512
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 5: So you know, why is the cost of housing so

513
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 5: high in Colorado? The average home costs in the Denver

514
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 5: metro area is about six hundred thousand dollars, you know,

515
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 5: state state wide, it's maybe four eighty. So it's expensive.

516
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 5: And yes, you could be in southern California and say wow,

517
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,959
Speaker 5: that's cheap, right, or in New York City, but like

518
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 5: for our standards, it's expensive, and compared to our neighboring states,

519
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 5: it's expensive. So why is it expensive? High demand? That's good,

520
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 5: people want to live in Colorado. Great place to live,

521
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 5: great raised to raise of family, outdoor recreation, all that stuff.

522
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 5: But supply has been artificially constrained. We simply haven't allowed

523
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 5: enough ones to be built to keep up with supply

524
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 5: with demand, and that's what serven crisis up. So we

525
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 5: focused our reforms on allowing more housing to be built,

526
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 5: not everywhere. You know, we don't want to sprawl further

527
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 5: out of more traffick and congestion ruin our quality of life.

528
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 5: We want to do it in a way that protects

529
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 5: our quality of life.

530
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 4: And what does that mean.

531
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 5: It means more housing closer to job centers and on

532
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 5: transit lines. And the bill you mentioned specifically allows multi

533
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 5: family along transit lines near job centers. And that's an

534
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 5: important piece of what we need to do to make

535
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 5: housing more affordable, more livable, and more sustainable in Colorado.

536
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 1: Do you get pushback from the I mean, is that

537
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: a delicate balance?

538
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 5: Well, of course, we actually and you might have noted,

539
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 5: we actually did not succeed last year getting this through

540
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 5: the legislator.

541
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 4: We did this year.

542
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 5: We had kind of an omnibus housing bill for lad

543
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 5: use last year. It didn't quite make it. It made

544
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 5: it past one chamber or not the other. We broke

545
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 5: it up into six different bills. They all made it

546
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 5: to my desk, and we're going to build on them

547
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 5: all in the future. But it equals over like we

548
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 5: got rid of parking restrictions. We allowed accessory dwelling units

549
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 5: by right, so people can build it as long as

550
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 5: there are lots of certain size. A mother mother in

551
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 5: law and ready flat. So you know, these things add

552
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 5: up to a real solution broadly popular the people of

553
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 5: Colorado obviously, you know, doesn't mean it's universally popular as

554
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 5: people who post it, but majorities of Republicans, Democrats, and

555
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 5: Independence all are strongly supportive of these measures to create

556
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 5: more housing.

557
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: What else can you do as a governor to decrease inflation?

558
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know Florida has this crazy inflation

559
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: largely driven by insurance. Is there anything you guys can

560
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: do with the insurance markets and also just to lower

561
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: inflation those costs in a state like Colorado.

562
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 5: Well, look, and we all know that inflation is really

563
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 5: a function of monetary policy, fiscal policy federally, they might

564
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 5: vary a fraction of a point between different markets. And

565
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 5: obviously a place with a hot housing market has like

566
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 5: Colorado has had, in Florida has had that drives inflation,

567
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 5: because that's one of the facts. But no, can we

568
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 5: affect overall inflation?

569
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: Wait, I'm going to push back on you for a second.

570
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: In Florida, the housing market is hot, but you know,

571
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: the insurers have been monopoly and also climate.

572
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 5: Change, Yeah, and their particular model, I know, is driven

573
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 5: out many private insurers and forced the government to do that.

574
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 5: I would say, first of all, look at an insurance.

575
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 5: Is it a problem here? Yes? Why because that we

576
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 5: thankfully out of the hurricanes, but we have a higher

577
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 5: risk of fire. So people's insurance rates across our state

578
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 5: in general have gone up more than inflation. Absolutely the

579
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,479
Speaker 5: last couple of years. We had the Marshall Fire two

580
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 5: years ago, most destructive wildfire in the history of the state.

581
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 5: Destroyed destroyed over a thousand homes. So that drives insurance.

582
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 5: What do we need to do. It's not so much

583
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 5: that the insurance side has broken, but we need to

584
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 5: reduce the risk because you know, at the end of

585
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 5: the day, insurance is just actuary a. They compute the risk,

586
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 5: they add their profit and boom, you got it. So

587
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 5: we need to reduce risk, and we are leading into that.

588
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 5: We are doing fire risk mitigation. We're doing more proactive

589
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 5: and controlled burns. We've purchased several helicopters a fire HOWK

590
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 5: top of line helicopter, but all so several type two helicopters.

591
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 5: We used to rely on a shared air fleet with

592
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 5: neighboring states in the West. But what happens if there's

593
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 5: a fire in California, Arizona and Colorado at the same time,

594
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 5: we're not going to get that quick aerial response. So

595
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 5: we've made the decision to move towards having our own fleet.

596
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 5: We now do. It's continuing to grow. We want to

597
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 5: boom hit fires early when it matters, when we can

598
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 5: reduce them. That in the long run, of course, will

599
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 5: help equate to better actuarial tables and reduced insurance costs

600
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 5: for our homeowners.

601
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: Do you see stient typically that this kind of stuff

602
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: prevents larger fires. I'm talking about the control burns, the

603
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:33,959
Speaker 1: kind of stuff you can do profilactively.

604
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 5: Absolutely, so community defence perimeters that would be your control burns,

605
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 5: taking down vegetation in and around communities. So to prevent

606
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 5: fires from jumping doesn't mean we're not going to fires.

607
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 5: We always have fire smalling coolera. It's always to be.

608
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 5: Fires are part of nature. The danger is when they

609
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 5: threaten human civilization, people's lives, and we absolutely significantly reduce

610
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 5: that with community defense perimeters and yes, home defense perimeters

611
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 5: where we're equipping homeowners with the ability to do that.

612
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 5: As an example, we recently remove the ability of hoa's

613
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 5: to prevent fire hardening. Many of them are requiring different things. Well,

614
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 5: let's call it wooden fences that are trees that were

615
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 5: actually bad for fires. We now empower homeowners to take

616
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 5: the steps necessary. But beyond that, community defense perimeters meeting

617
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 5: areas with no vegetation that can prevent the spread of

618
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,959
Speaker 5: fire absolutely a critical tool, as well as rapid detection

619
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 5: and response, including aerial response.

620
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: Okay, so two questions now. One is I hate tariffs

621
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: good because I think they punish the consumer. Sounds like

622
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: you do too, So let's talk about that.

623
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 5: Well, you're on hundred percent right, wellly, I mean it's

624
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 5: rare to get an issue that like pretty much every

625
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 5: economists degrees on like left right, cent are like saris

626
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 5: are regressive, they punished the receiver. Brit is regressive being

627
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 5: they're kind of like a sales tax. They don't scale

628
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 5: with income, think about consumer products.

629
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 4: They are costly.

630
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 5: They drive inflation. Absolutely, one of my suggestions for reducing

631
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 5: inflation is dropping tariffs, entering, having more free trade agreements

632
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 5: with more countries, no question about it.

633
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 4: And I'm very critical of with.

634
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 5: Parties obviously, particularly Donald Trump, who champions and talents even

635
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 5: more tariffs than Joe Biden.

636
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 4: I encourage Joe Biden.

637
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 5: I hope he is the second term to lean into

638
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 5: trade agreements with Europe with our allies. Our Senator Bennett

639
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 5: has the America's Act expanding the Free Trade Zone uspectually

640
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 5: Canada to other countries. These would be great tangible measures,

641
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 5: good for the economy, good for the consumer, and they

642
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 5: would reduce inflation.

643
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: So you have an aibill. I spend a lot of

644
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: time reading Balwey media. I don't live in DC, but

645
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: I know that AI is sponsoring like almost everything right,

646
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: So clearly they are trying to get ahead of the

647
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: regulatory environment. I think it's interesting that you're doing this.

648
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: I think it's good explain to me how what you're

649
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: doing to regulate AI.

650
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: And also, can we.

651
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: Just for one second, the lack of regulation is how

652
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: tech companies basically drove out local news. So I just

653
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: am curious if you have thoughts on that too.

654
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 5: So I would say that our AI bill that I

655
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 5: signed a law. It deals with the potential discrimination of AI.

656
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 5: We also appeared deeply about privacy rights of AI. I

657
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 5: would say it's a conversation accelerator, meaning what needs to happen,

658
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 5: Molly frankly, is it needs to be done nationally because

659
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 5: I don't really support a system where there's fifty different

660
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 5: versions of two different states.

661
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: It's undoable, Yeah, go on.

662
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 5: It's undoable. But the way those things happen, Having served

663
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 5: in Congress, I've seen it is it takes a few

664
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 5: states to kind of mess around in this space and

665
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 5: then all of a sudden, you know, eight states, fifteen

666
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 5: states have done it, and then Congress wakes up and says,

667
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 5: we'd better figure this out. We better, you know, get

668
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 5: it reasonably right. And they can look at what the

669
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,479
Speaker 5: EU's done, and they can look at other models and

670
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 5: create uniformity across the states. But I would say, what

671
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 5: what we're doing? You know, it doesn't take effect to

672
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 5: twenty six and hopefully it'll be you know, changed, or

673
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 5: Congress will take it up then. But it's a conversation

674
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 5: accelerator about how we approach AI and we should look

675
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 5: at it from a potential perspective of discrimination as well

676
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 5: as privacy rights and how it affects US.

677
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: California got a complicated legislative record in my mind, though

678
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: I like a lot of the stuff they do, though

679
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: sometimes I think they get ahead of themselves is trying

680
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: to do something that will regulate tech companies make them

681
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: pay for content. God forbid, anyone should pay for content.

682
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: It's a sort of tax. I don't know if you

683
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: know the No, I.

684
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 5: Don't, but I would just say something interesting about California.

685
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 5: So there is an alternative to Congress, because we all

686
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 5: know how notoriously slow they have been of late, right.

687
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: And how uninterested in tech regulation they are.

688
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 5: California can act and then other states can adopt something

689
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 5: similar to created the facto national standard. It could also

690
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 5: be Texas or New York, but a big state could

691
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 5: lead others. So I have a look at that. I'm

692
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 5: not talking about the tax or fiscal round there, Molly.

693
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 5: I'm talking about more of the regulatory realm. But we

694
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 5: have done a little bit of.

695
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 4: That around evs.

696
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 5: We haven't exactly imitated electric vehicles, that is, we haven't

697
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 5: imitated California, but because they've moved a certain way, it's

698
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 5: enabled us to move a certain way with manufacturers that

699
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 5: Colorado couldn't.

700
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 4: Do on our own.

701
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 5: Because we're, you know, tuber population of the country.

702
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: It does seem to me that the only way we're

703
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: going to get protection for local news, which well, in

704
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: the end cause us to have better information as citizens

705
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: and prevent us from ending up in an autocracy. Maybe

706
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: we won't do it this time, but we will do

707
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: it at some point. If we don't, if our citizens

708
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: can't read the truth, could be on the state level. Right.

709
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 5: Well, you know, I want to see where you're going

710
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 5: with this, Molly. It's obviously very dangerous for government to

711
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 5: mess with the press and freedom of the press in

712
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 5: any shape or form, like favoring certain lids or investing

713
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 5: or But I'm more.

714
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: Just saying that the idea that tech companies should have

715
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: to be responsible for either what is put on their

716
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: platform or have to pay for the content that they use.

717
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 5: Well, look, our major media companies are also tech companies, Mollie, Right,

718
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 5: So I mean there's a blurring to a certain extent.

719
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 5: We have a great local press in Colorado, a nonprofit

720
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 5: called Colorado Sun, Independent, nonprofit, new model. We obviously, unfortunately

721
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 5: many of our newspapers are owned by hedge funds. They

722
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 5: have been gutted. That's not a good thing. We still

723
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 5: have fairly vibrant local television news. But I'm particularly proud

724
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 5: of these new models like Colorado Sun that have created

725
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 5: a nonprofit content generation model. I hope that occurs in

726
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 5: more cities and states.

727
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: So interesting, you still have half a term left, but

728
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: you've been governor of Colorado for a while. What have

729
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: you learned?

730
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 5: Well, a lot. I came from two different backgrounds, I

731
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 5: guess through three it away, so as private sector started,

732
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 5: several businesses started, a couple of charter schools, social entrepreneur,

733
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 5: and then I was in Congress for ten years. So

734
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 5: this is obviously the most exciting, fastest paced job I've

735
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 5: ever had, for sure. And you're really able to get

736
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 5: things done, unlike in Congress where you might have to work,

737
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 5: you know, six seven, eight years to finally get one

738
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 5: amendment into something that becomes law in your area of jurisdiction.

739
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 4: We pumped stuff out quickly.

740
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 5: We got universal preschool in kindergarten in the state one

741
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 5: of Michaels as governor. We've cut the income tax. We've

742
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 5: done a number of savings around healthcare to bring down

743
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 5: people's costs, especially in the healthcare exchange for those who

744
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 5: don't get it from work. We've protected the environment. We've

745
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 5: provided you know, rebates to accelerate electric vehicle adoption and

746
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 5: so many things. Just boom boom, boom, boom boom. It's

747
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 5: an exciting job. But of course we yes, we also

748
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 5: deal with crisis is, fires, floods, pandemic, you name it.

749
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 5: But despite that, it's fun to be proactive and get

750
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 5: a lot done at the state level.

751
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: Thank you, Governor, Thank you.

752
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 6: Molly ari Berman is a reporter at Mother Jones and

753
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 6: the author of Minority Rule, The Right Wings Attack on

754
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 6: the Will of the People and the Fight to Resist It.

755
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics.

756
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 4: Ari Berman, Hey Molly, so great to be here. Thank you.

757
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: So Minority Rule, The right Wing Attack on the Will

758
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: of the People and the Fight to resist it.

759
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like every fucking day.

760
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: Go tell us, tell us why we shouldn't just kill ourselves?

761
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 2: No, no, tell us about this book.

762
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 4: Well, good to know we can swear on the podcast.

763
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 4: That's always a possi right baby, especially when discussing this topic.

764
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 4: So you know, I've been reporting on the issue of

765
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 4: voting rights for over a decade now, and as I

766
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 4: got deeper into reporting on voter suppression, I began asking

767
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 4: my self, why is the Republican Party doing this so aggressively?

768
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 4: Is it just to try to get an electoral advantage

769
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 4: or is there some larger purpose here? And what I

770
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 4: concluded is that the larger purpose here is minority rule.

771
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: Right, is to get the electoral advantage.

772
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 4: Exactly, so they can have a minority of the population

773
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 4: but a majority of the power, which basically goes directly

774
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 4: against the idea of the consent of the governed that

775
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 4: democracy is based on the consent of the government has

776
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 4: laid out in the Declaration of Independence. So what I

777
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 4: did is basically two things. I traced it all the

778
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 4: way back to the founding fathers to show that there's

779
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 4: always been these anti democratic strains in the country. But

780
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 4: then there's essentially this new anti democratic movement layered on

781
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 4: top of it, which is voter suppression, gerrymandering, dark money,

782
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 4: all the things that Republicans are doing now. So we

783
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 4: kind of have this historical minority rule embedded in the system,

784
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 4: but it's gotten worse because the Republican Party has so

785
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 4: aggressively radicalized against democracy.

786
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: Right, and that is the Republican Party radicalizing against democracy.

787
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: I want to just do two seconds on that, because

788
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: you're a voting right sky among other things, so Republicans

789
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: have wanted to make it so people who are not

790
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: white can't vote for a long time. But what's happened

791
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: now is I think it's kicked into high gear in

792
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: a different way.

793
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 4: Discuss exactly I think that's true. So, I mean, you

794
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 4: can go back a long time, and I do trace

795
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 4: it a long time in the book about Republicans saying

796
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 4: that black people shouldn't vote. I mean they said it

797
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 4: during Jim Crow, they said it after the Voting Rights Act.

798
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 4: It goes back a long way.

799
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 2: Long and story tradition of racism, big.

800
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 4: Part of Nixon's Southern strategy, big part of Reagan courting

801
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 4: white voters. But what I argue is it obviously got

802
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 4: worse after the election of the first black president, which

803
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 4: sort of crystallized the fears they had about the changing

804
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 4: nature of the country. And so in the kind of

805
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 4: modern incarnation of GOP voter suppression that the point is

806
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 4: after the twenty ten election, when Republicans get control of

807
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 4: all those key swing states like Wisconsin and North Carolina

808
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 4: and Ohio and Florida, and they start making it harder

809
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 4: to vote, to try to manufacture an electorate that will

810
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 4: be older, wider, more conservative as opposed to younger, more diverse,

811
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 4: more progressive that I think, in many ways lays the

812
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 4: groundwork for Trump, because the radicalization of the Republican Party

813
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 4: happens before Trump, and then it creates an opening for Trump,

814
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 4: and then you start to see voter suppression get much

815
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 4: worse under Trump. First he makes all these false claims

816
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 4: about stolen elections, and then he actually tries to overturt

817
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 4: the election and incis and insurrection, and then it's basically

818
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 4: voter suppression on steroids. They're not just trying to make

819
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 4: it harder to vote on the front end, they're actually

820
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 4: literally trying to overturn votes on the back end as well.

821
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 4: And that's the scary thing that's happening today is we

822
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 4: have not just laws making it harder to vote, but

823
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 4: we essentially have a Republican party in which the Big

824
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 4: Lie is now the central organizing principle of Trump's Republican Party.

825
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: So what I think is interesting besides the fact that

826
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: these sentence the big Lie is the central organizing of

827
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: Trump's Republican Party, which I think is right and also

828
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: makes me so incredibly depressed about the state of democracy,

829
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: and also the intelligence of Republicans. What I think is

830
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: interesting is that Republicans, and I want you to sort

831
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: of talk us through this because I think this is

832
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: like they've gotten themselves an interesting place here.

833
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: There's a lot of new polling.

834
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: I think polls are bullshit, especially these polls, because I

835
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: just think they're hinky and I'm a cross tabs truther.

836
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: But I want you to talk about this. Republicans are

837
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: very excited about the possibility that they could win over

838
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: black and Latino voters. Now, I think this is very

839
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: overstated in the polls. But if they are trying to

840
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: do this, isn't everything they do to keep these people

841
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: who they are trying.

842
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 2: To win now from voting.

843
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 4: Well, that's what's interesting is you've already heard the Republican

844
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 4: Party start changing there too. And I just heard Trump

845
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,479
Speaker 4: said that people should vote early and vote by mail,

846
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 4: which well directly at odds with his message for many years.

847
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm conflicted about the polling because I think,

848
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 4: first off, i think it's still the case that white

849
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 4: voters are the key part of the Republican Party and

850
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 4: certainly the key part of the Republican base. So let's

851
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 4: not fool ourselves that the Republican Party has undergone a

852
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 4: full Rainbow Coalition make over. I think it's still if

853
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 4: you went to most Republican meetings, I think you're going

854
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 4: to see a lot of white faces there, and certainly

855
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 4: that's where the energy is on the base. Secondly, I'm

856
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 4: not sure how much this is about the Democratic Party

857
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 4: or Biden per se. We didn't see in twenty twenty

858
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 4: two the Democratic Party have these fundamental problems with voters

859
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 4: of color, or young voters for that matter. My sense

860
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 4: is if Gretchen Whitmer, for example, the governor of Michigan

861
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 4: where the nominee, she would not be losing young voters

862
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 4: or voters of color. So I think some of this

863
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 4: is Biden centric to the extent it exists. But I

864
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 4: think the basic thesis that I have of that the

865
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 4: Republican Party is a largely white party that's concerned about

866
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 4: the changing demographics of the country is still true regardless

867
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 4: of whether there's some blips in the polling. That is

868
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 4: I think more specific to Biden than it is about

869
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 4: kind of long term trends in American politics.

870
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: They put themselves in a fascinating situation here, but even still,

871
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: like if they are losing white college educated voters, which

872
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: if these polls are right, which again I don't necessarily

873
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: think they are, they show a real racial realignment for

874
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: working class you know, not necessarily black, but Hispanic voters

875
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: going more Republican, and then affluent college educated voters, like

876
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: these suburban Republicans all becoming Democrats. They would have completely

877
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: fucked themselves. I'm just saying, again, we don't know. It's theoretical.

878
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 4: There is a realignment going on, certainly among white voters, right,

879
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 4: kind of the kind of classic suburban country club white Republicans,

880
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 4: many of them are now never Trumpers.

881
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: Ordem which is fascinating.

882
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 4: You know, a lot of the Lincoln Project folks, of

883
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 4: those kind of people, and that then you have, you

884
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 4: know a lot of the working class whites that were

885
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 4: the core of the Democratic Party in a lot of

886
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 4: places for many years they now abandoned the Democratic Party.

887
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 4: And so I think there's this realignment, and I think,

888
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 4: you know, I think you can't make any kind of

889
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 4: sweeping predictions. That's why every time there's these books about

890
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 4: like emerging Democratic majorities emerging, they always go out of

891
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 4: date really quickly. But I think, you know, there's a

892
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 4: pretty consistent through line for many, many years of the

893
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 4: Republican Party relying on reactionary wheys. I mean, that's a

894
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 4: pretty solid through line that predates this election, you know.

895
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 4: I mean, and I trace it. I trace it a

896
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 4: long way. I mean, you can go back before there

897
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 4: were Democrats and Republicans, you can go back to the

898
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 4: founding fathers, and basically they're trying to protect elite white

899
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,479
Speaker 4: power before there were political parties. And then, certainly that's

900
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 4: been a theme of the Republican Party since the Civil

901
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 4: Rights movement, and I think even more of a theme

902
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 4: of the Republican Party under Donald Trump.

903
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 2: For sure. For sure.

904
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: Now let's talk about where we are right now with

905
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: this Republican Party and also just what they're doing to

906
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: make it harder to vote, and our Democrats sort of

907
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: add quickly addressing that or now.

908
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 4: So, I mean, there's a few things they're doing. First off,

909
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 4: they changed in most Republican controlled states, changed the voting

910
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 4: laws in some way or another after the twenty twenty election.

911
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 4: So this was how they kind of weaponized the insurrection.

912
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 4: I called it the insurrection through other means because Trump

913
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 4: fails to overturn the vote. But then in Georgia and

914
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 4: all these states they changed the voting laws, and you know,

915
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 4: maybe they were fighting the last war, because a lot

916
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 4: of this went after mail voting, and we'll see how

917
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 4: many people actually vote by mail in the next election.

918
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 4: But certainly the laws have changed in meaningful ways in

919
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 4: a number of swing states. Then of course they've doubled

920
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 4: down on election sub version, so trying to contest election outcomes.

921
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 4: And we've seen local Republican Party officials, for example, fail

922
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 4: to certify elections, and we've seen that basically Republicans who

923
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 4: have said that the Republican Party should stop contesting elections

924
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 4: essentially get purged from the RNC. You know, Trump won't

925
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 4: hire anyone who says that the election wasn't stolen, which

926
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 4: leads you to believe that they're preparing for a more organized,

927
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 4: better funded effort to try to steal the election in

928
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, if it comes to that, because I

929
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 4: think there really was no election denier movement in twenty

930
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 4: twenty As you know, Molly, this was totally seated. Their

931
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 4: pass This was you know, the hair dye tripping down

932
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 4: Rudy Juliani's base. Four seasons total landscaping kind of election denial,

933
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 4: and now this is central to the RNC, it's central

934
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 4: to Republicans all across the country that they have a

935
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 4: much more organized, well funded movement that's bought into this.

936
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 4: And so I think if the election outcome is close,

937
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 4: I think we can expect very very aggressive challenges to

938
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 4: it in twenty twenty four, in addition to the laws

939
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 4: that they're passing to try to make it harder to

940
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 4: vote on the front end. What makes you hopeful, Well,

941
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 4: a few things, I think. First off, there's a lot

942
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 4: of really interesting organizing happening at the state and local

943
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 4: level right now. A key part of the end of

944
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 4: my book is about Michigan, and I had a New

945
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 4: York Times op ed about this, But basically, Michigan is

946
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 4: one of those states that was seemingly rigged. After the

947
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 4: twenty ten election. Republicans routinely got a minority of votes

948
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 4: but controlled the state legislature for a decade and a half.

949
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,959
Speaker 4: And then what everyday activist did is they started putting

950
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 4: initiatives on the ballot to try to make the democratic

951
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 4: process more fair. They passed a ban on partison jerrymandering,

952
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 4: They dramatically expanded voting rights through things like automatic and

953
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 4: election day registration. They put on ballot initiatives that enshrine

954
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 4: the right to abortion rights. So they use direct democracy

955
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 4: to expand voting rights. And that's something that has happened

956
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 4: in a number of places. And then there's also other

957
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 4: places where people have changed in terms of Democrats have

958
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 4: focused more on local elections. Wisconsin, for example, there's a

959
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 4: progressive majority on the state Supreme Court that's struck down

960
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 4: jerrymandering there so that those heavily gerrymanded maps are no

961
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 4: longer in place. So if you look at the state

962
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 4: landscape and the battleground states, it's a lot more fair

963
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 4: than it was in twenty twenty. There is more democratic governors,

964
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 4: there is more democratic state legislatures, there's more democratic secretaries

965
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 4: of state, attorney general. And I have to say that

966
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 4: every Democrat is going to be good on democracy issues,

967
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 4: but these are people that ran on these issues that

968
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 4: made it a central part. So I think, you know,

969
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 4: if Trump would try to contest the election in the

970
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 4: place like Michigan or a place like Pennsylvania or Wisconsin,

971
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 4: you have a much tougher time doing it in twenty

972
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 4: twenty four than in twenty twenty. And so in that sense,

973
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 4: I think the system has been trump proofed a lot

974
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 4: compared to how it was last time.

975
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 1: But it's also true that if you have democratic governors,

976
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: there's less chance to cheat, right there.

977
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 4: Is, Yeah, exactly because a lot of those places, democratic

978
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 4: governors are in charge of certifying the election, right so,

979
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 4: democratic governor in Pennsylvania, Democratic governor Michigan, Democratic governor in Arizona,

980
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 4: Democratic governor Wisconsin. That means that they're going to have

981
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 4: a major say in certifying the election results, which means

982
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 4: it's harder to cheat. It's also harder to pass laws

983
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 4: that make it harder to vote in the first place

984
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 4: as well. And you know, in some of these places

985
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 4: there's a stalemate, right like in Wisconsin, where there's a

986
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 4: Republican legislature and a Democratic governor, they haven't really been

987
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 4: able to do much of anything, but it prevents bad

988
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 4: things from happening. And then in places like Michigan, they've

989
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 4: been able to do a lot of really proactive things.

990
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 4: And so basically what I'm saying is, I do think

991
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 4: we need a long term movement for institutional reform on

992
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 4: the federal level to reform the Supreme Court to reform

993
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 4: the US setate, to break some of these to break

994
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 4: up some of these broken structures. But I also think

995
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 4: that changing the state and local level happens a lot quicker.

996
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 4: And even if you live in a blue state Molly

997
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 4: like we do, there's a lot of swing districts in

998
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 4: New York.

999
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 2: So I'm aware that's why Democrats lost the House.

1000
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, they lost the House because of California and

1001
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 4: New York. And I always hear people in New York say,

1002
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 4: I'm going to Georgia, I'm going to Wisconsin, and I'm like,

1003
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 4: you could just go to Staten Island.

1004
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well don't go to Stutson Valley, but you could.

1005
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 4: Go to Long Island exactly. You could flip the House there.

1006
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 4: And so I mean, I think people need to think

1007
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,280
Speaker 4: more about organizing locally in general.

1008
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 2: And I think that's a really good point.

1009
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: I mean, the federal staff, I hesitate to say that

1010
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: this Supreme Court has done something that isn't completely beyond

1011
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: the pay. Explain to us what's happening in this congressional

1012
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: district in the Great State of Louisiana.

1013
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is a complicated case, but basically the

1014
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 4: good news is that the Supreme Court ruled that Louisiana

1015
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 4: has to use a congressional map for twenty twenty four

1016
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 4: that includes two majority black congressional district Are you shocked.

1017
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 4: I'm not shocked, only because the state of Louisiana took

1018
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 4: this position. So I mean, like, black voters in Louisiana

1019
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 4: are on the same side, which is very rare. The

1020
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 4: state of Louisiana was forced into drawing a second black

1021
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 4: congressional district, which is expected to elect a Democrat because

1022
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 4: of lower federal court decisions. Now, what the Supreme Court

1023
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 4: has done is it is upheld those lower court decisions

1024
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 4: and that has been a rare bright spot for voting rights.

1025
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 4: And that they did this not just in Louisiana. They

1026
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 4: did it in Alabama too, which was very surprising. Now

1027
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 4: we'll see how long this lasts to the sense that

1028
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 4: there is support for voting rights in the court. It's

1029
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,439
Speaker 4: very tenuous. It takes five justices, obviously one of them

1030
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 4: who is in the majority in the Alley Bama case,

1031
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 4: Brett Kavana, also already said he's open to challenging the

1032
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,919
Speaker 4: constutionality of the remaining parts of the voting Rights Act.

1033
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 4: So I'm not popping too much champagne here, but I

1034
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 4: do think like, given this is a six to three

1035
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 4: conservative supermajority on the Supreme Court, so anytime they don't

1036
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 4: do something terrible, you have to celebrate it, at least momentarily.

1037
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: Yes, how did they break Well, this is.

1038
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 4: The interesting thing. It broke six to three, which normally

1039
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 4: six conservatives and three liberals assenting. Normally, you would think

1040
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 4: that that would mean that it was a bad decision

1041
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 4: on voting rights. It was a good decision on voting rights.

1042
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 4: But the way they reached the case was basically in

1043
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 4: voting this principle that said that you can't make election

1044
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 4: changes too close to the election. Now, that was a

1045
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 4: good thing in this case, but a lot of the

1046
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 4: times the Supreme Court invokes the same principle to then

1047
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 4: reinstate discriminatory voting. Yeah, exactly, so they it's mostly been

1048
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 4: used for crappy purposes. So I think the three liberals

1049
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 4: may view this as something of a pyrrhic victory where

1050
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 4: they said, listen, the Conservatives are giving us a win here,

1051
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 4: but they're about the fust.

1052
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: So do you think they see something coming?

1053
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 4: I don't know. If there's something coming. My guess is yes,

1054
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 4: But I also think they're probably just worried about. Listen,

1055
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 4: you expand this principle that is generally speaking been used

1056
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 4: to curtail voting rights. You're expanding it in a good

1057
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 4: way here, but then you could weaponize it in a

1058
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 4: bad way further. So I think that's why they dissented.

1059
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 4: So every victory on voting rights by the Supreme Court,

1060
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 4: which is a rare in of itself, always comes to

1061
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 4: some kind of asterisk, and I think that that's the

1062
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 4: asterisk in this case. But you know, again, live to

1063
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 4: fight another day, right.

1064
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 2: Oh so interesting?

1065
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: So what's still on the docket with the Supreme Court?

1066
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean, besides the death of democracy? And they're also

1067
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: going to fuck over the birth control pill staff, not

1068
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 1: the birth control, the meth of pristone. Talk to us

1069
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: about what else you see that's voting rights wise on

1070
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court docket.

1071
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 4: We're still waiting for them to issue a decision in

1072
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 4: a South Carolina redistriction case, which is Nancy Mace's congressional district.

1073
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 4: And the crazy thing here is that basically the lower

1074
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 4: court struck down her district. They called it stark racial jerrymandering. Basically,

1075
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 4: they took a bunch of black voters out of the

1076
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 4: district to make it a lot more Republican. Mace has

1077
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 4: become a lot Trumpier as a result. Remember she was

1078
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 4: one of I think seven House Republicans who ousted Kevin McCarthy,

1079
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 4: and so she's become very trumpy. And essentially this was

1080
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 4: appealed to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court was told

1081
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 4: to act by the beginning of the year. It's now

1082
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 4: May and they haven't taken any action. And the lower

1083
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 4: court that struck down the district was basically forced to

1084
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 4: reinstate it because the Supreme Court had done nothing. So

1085
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 4: it's kind of like the version of the immunity case.

1086
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 4: They basically just ran out the clock to deny Democrats

1087
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 4: having a shot at winning back another House seat. And

1088
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 4: that's concerning because the House could be extremely close. I mean,

1089
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 4: it could very well come down to one district.

1090
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 2: The Louisiana decision gives a seat to Democrats, right.

1091
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so basically, but I mean Democrats need more

1092
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 4: than two seats. So right now, Democrats have picked up

1093
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 4: seats in Alabama and Louisiana based on the court decisions,

1094
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 4: they could have theoretically picked up another seat in South

1095
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 4: Carolina that they're not going to pick up. The problem

1096
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 4: is is that in North Carolina, Republicans drew a really

1097
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 4: jerrymandered map that's going to get them three to four

1098
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 4: new seats, So you've got to make up those seats somewhere.

1099
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 4: There's some talk about whether they could pick up seats

1100
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 4: in New York, but New York actually passed a redistricting

1101
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:20,720
Speaker 4: map that was very similar.

1102
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 2: It's so fucked up.

1103
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: New York passed basically a completely unjenary mandered redistricting map.

1104
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think that the conventional wisdom here

1105
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 4: is that the New York Democrats feel like they can

1106
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 4: just win seats outright on this map. But I mean,

1107
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 4: they certainly didn't adopt in North Carolina tactics. And some

1108
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 4: people would view this as unile or disarmament that basically

1109
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 4: Republicans in North Carolina jerrymandered as aggressively as they could

1110
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 4: and New York didn't. Now, maybe Democrats in New York

1111
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,280
Speaker 4: were worried about court striking down a map, but nonetheless

1112
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 4: they add the power to jerrymander Moore and they didn't

1113
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 4: and we can argue whether it's a good thing or

1114
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 4: a bad thing that parties are basically just try to

1115
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 4: jerrymander the fuck of things. I think that's ultimately bad

1116
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 4: for democracy when they engage in like a gerrymandering arms race.

1117
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 4: But I think it's also fair to argue that if

1118
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 4: one party is doing it, then the other party has

1119
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 4: no choice but to do it as well. But it's

1120
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 4: a complicated argument, and I don't think it's probably very

1121
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 4: good for democracy if that's where we end up.

1122
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: So interesting. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

1123
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 4: Ari, thanks so much. Molly really appreciate it.

1124
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 2: No moment full Jesse Cannon.

1125
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 4: Molly junk Fast.

1126
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 5: It seems like Donald Trump decided to do Joe Biden

1127
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 5: a favor today.

1128
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: What are you seeing here? So? Donald Trump said on

1129
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 1: an interview that he was looking at placing restrictions on contraception.

1130
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: Let me tell you a little more about this. Trump

1131
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: was asked by a local Pittsburgh TV station, do you

1132
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: support any restriction on a person's right to contraception that's

1133
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: birth control, and he said, we are looking at that.

1134
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a policy on that very shortly.

1135
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: Sounds like infrastructure week. I think it's something you'll find interesting.

1136
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: Trump says, you will be releasing a very comprehensive policy

1137
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: on contraception within a week or so. Things really have

1138
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: to do a lot with the states, and some states

1139
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: are going to have different policies than others. That's pretty

1140
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: scary stuff. I never thought that we would be in

1141
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: this place in America. Really scary. That's it for this

1142
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 1: episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and

1143
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,959
Speaker 1: Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes sense

1144
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

1145
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

1146
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.