WEBVTT - Resourceful Diplomacy with Helaina Matza 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.480 This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched on 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.040 the BNF podcast. Today we have an interview recorded at 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.879 bnaf's New York summit. Helena Matsa spent the last decade 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:12.680 working at the Department of State in the US across 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.440 multiple roles, having previously served as the Director of Energy 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.200 Transformation at the Bureau of Energy Resources and Director of 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:24.200 Climate Diplomacy and Energy Transformation at the National Security Council. 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.240 She was appointed Special Presidential Coordinator for the Partnership on 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:32.360 Global Infrastructure Investment in January of this year. BNF editor 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.519 Kamala Shelling sat down with Helena for a chat, and 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.800 together they discussed Helena's experience as a diplomat and some 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.640 of the geopolitical challenges she and the US government have 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.760 to face. They also went through the Partnership for Global 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.159 Infrastructure Investment and its aims and goals. Additionally, they discussed 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.800 US foreign policy and its support of foreign nations and 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:57.360 companies through strategic investment. If you like this podcast, make 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.480 sure to subscribe to receive updates on future episodisodes, and 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.160 if you're listening to us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:07.160 consider giving us a review. For more information about bnf' summits, 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.280 as well as previously recorded videos from the New York 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.840 Summit or agendas for upcoming summits, head to about dot 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:17.119 BNAF dot com Forward slash Summit. And now let's hear 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:26.520 Kamala's chat with Helena. 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.400 You have had a career throughout the State Department. You've 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:36.080 been a negotiator, you've been a strategist. Tell me about 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:38.039 your career and how you got to where you are now. 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.759 Thank you so much for that question. I always, when 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.600 I'm talking to folks try to remind them that while 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.680 your career sounds like it's a linear, well thought out line, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.200 often your story is getting written as it's happening. And 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.080 so I found my way to the State Department after 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.120 studying international affairs, spending some time living overseas, and I 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.040 came on board to be the Department Sustainability Advisor. So 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:04.240 I was actually going around with a small team figuring 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:08.000 out how to actually make our own embassy operations more efficient, 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.800 so doing smart metering, buying clean power where we could 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.560 demonstrating the best in US technology at our embassies around 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.639 the world. And through that I learned a lot and 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:21.800 was really interested in spending more time in the policy 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.800 area and came and joined our Clean Energy team at 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.560 the State Department. From there, it's just been a long, 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.920 winding but exciting road of opportunities. So having a chance 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.920 to join our climate negotiation team as we were closing 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.040 the Pairs rule book leading up to Kadaviza, Poland, and 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.079 then beginning this administration at the White House as our 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:45.400 Director for Climate Diplomacy and Energy Transformation. When I came 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.079 back to State Department and was asked to run the 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.920 Clean Energy team, I was able to bring together a 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.840 lot of different experience and start working on some of 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:57.040 those really exciting and challenging issues around clean energy supply chains, 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.000 which ultimately led me to my current position working for 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.920 the Partnership for Global Infrastructure and Investment. 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.240 In a negotiator's position or in the position as a diplomat, 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.840 what would you say are some of the top challenges 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:10.760 that you are facing. You know, we BNF tend to 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.480 focus on the science side, but from a geopolitical angle, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:15.920 what do you think are the real challenges that you're 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:16.880 trying to grapple with. 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.320 Sure, it's a great question, and sometimes it's a little 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.320 bit different in the negotiating room versut when we're out 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.080 there in the field trying to get projects off the ground. 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.160 But ultimately the spirit is the same. You know, around 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.640 these issues, especially deploying clean energy and meeting our climate goals, 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:37.240 there is always a tension that you need to work through, 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.880 especially as these need to be elevated as national security 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.440 priorities at the same time. And so I find in 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:47.000 the negotiating room the key is really building alliances, finding 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:51.560 areas of common interests, which sounds very obvious but can 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.920 be quite complicated. As countries are experiencing really different effects 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.360 of climate change, they've had different roles in getting us 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:02.160 into the situation we're in. We're all coming at the issue, 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.080 even though it's a shared global challenge with a different 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.800 set of resources, and so I think the trick in 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.320 the negotiating room is figuring out how you bring that 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.920 together and come to a common solution that gives enough 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.480 space to be able to implement in the real world. 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.520 And now where I sit actually figuring out what types 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.240 of projects and interventions make sense in the real world 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.560 that have a really good bang for their buck. Since 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.400 we know that we're always operating with limited public dollars. 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.000 We're trying to bring the private sector along with us, 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.480 and of course we want to answer the development needs 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.080 of the countries we work in in a very ever 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.200 evolving foreign policy space. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:38.479 So tell me about where you're sitting now. 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.599 Yeah. So in the last few months, I was able 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.320 to take on a new position as the Deputy Special 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.680 Coordinator for the Partnership for Global Infrastructure Investment. And this 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.080 is a really exciting initiative that our President launched last 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.440 year in partnership with the G seven countries, for US 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:59.640 collectively and as individual countries to offer better value alternatives 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.039 for structure of investment around the world. When we're talking 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.080 about the geopolitics of the energy transformation, or really just 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.880 the geopolitics of the moment we find ourselves in right now, 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.719 there's really two intersecting revolutions that are happening. One in 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.520 tech where the world is becoming faster and smaller and 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.640 more connected, and one in climate and energy, as the 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:22.160 clean energy transition shapes the very fundamentals of energy systems 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.479 and food security around the world. And that is a 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.320 big reason why we're leading with a Partnership for Global 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:28.440 Infrastructure Investment. 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.040 Let's get a little more concrete. There is there an 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.200 example of a project that you've worked on as part 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.680 of the partnership that you think really exemplifies what this 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:37.760 partnership can do and what it can accomplish. 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.680 I think there are several, and we're actually getting ready 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.240 to announce some of our new flagship projects on the 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.200 margins of the G seven that the President will be 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.840 able to share in just a couple weeks. So I 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.279 will not scoop our own president, but I'll share an 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.640 example that our Vice president actually announced just a few 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.839 weeks ago when she was visiting Africa and Tanzania. We 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.680 have been working with the company or a couple companies 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.159 that are investing in a special economic zone in the 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:08.160 country to help bring cleaner nickel processing as a hub, 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.719 a value added opportunity for the Tanzanian people to actually 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.760 take advantage of being able to develop their own commodities, 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.760 in this case nickel, but hopefully over time rare earths 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.880 and others. The same time, we're helping facilitate some of 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:25.039 those connection points with a couple new producing assets and 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.760 trying to ensure that we're supporting companies coming in to 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:32.240 develop those in a way that's considerate of land and 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.279 labor and environmental stewardship. And at the same time, this 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.720 is a huge priority for the President of Tanzania as 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.400 she's embarking on trying to attract investment or our country. 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.880 So it's one of the ways we marry our development 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.279 priorities with our commercial opportunities. And then of course we're 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:52.119 excited to see that cleaner battery grade nickel over time 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.160 entering the global market, which is of extreme interests the 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.320 US and so many of our partners and allies. 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.240 So you mentioned nickel, you mentioned critical minerals. This is 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.520 obviously tremendously important for the US right now and for 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.719 the world as a whole, both for our electronics and 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.760 for the energy transition. But mineral mining has so often 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.320 come with tremendous environmental degradation and often human rights abuses 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.240 as well. Do you think it's important to take that 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:19.480 into account as you're developing these projects and try to 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.080 make sure that the mining processes are environmentally friendly and 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.160 to minimize human rights violations as much as possible. 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.040 Of course, I mean, I think that's why you know, 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.360 every time I have a conversation like this, I start 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.720 off with a version of a joke of like, did 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:35.960 you ever think a climbate negotiator will find their way 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.760 into the bottom of an open pit mine? I certainly 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.280 did not. But it's for all those reasons we have 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.440 made so much progress, especially in our own country, our 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:48.160 president moving forward with such impactful legislation, whether it's a 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.480 Biparson Infrastructure Law or Chips Act, and of course the IRA, 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.440 which I'm sure you'll have many podcasters talking about over 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:58.000 the next several months. To be able to realize those goals, 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.480 be able to deploy clean energy at scale, there's going 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.200 to be an exponential demand on many of these core materials. 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.400 And if we aren't thinking right now, how do we 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.840 mind those or recycle those from existing tailings that take 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.920 advantage of new innovation that much of which is being 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.720 developed here in the US. And we're not thinking about 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.320 ensuring that there is not force labor and child labor, 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.960 and that in communities where mining is happening, that those 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.280 communities are served with better healthcare, with schools, with lights 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.960 being able to be turned on, then we're not solving 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.440 the problem. We're just shifting the problem. And I think 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.880 that this administration is taking that really seriously and ensuring 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.439 that we're thinking all the way upstream while we're so 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.040 excited to deploy, and I can take a lot of creditor. 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.199 I could say, my colleagues in the US government could 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.400 take a lot of credit for some amazing new renewable 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.160 energy projects that PGII has been delivering along with our 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:49.920 other sectors, which I hope to talk a little bit 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.400 about as well. We have to be there at the 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.240 mind sight. We have to be thinking about processing not 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.600 only but very importantly for the safety and well being 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.400 in transparency of these supply chains, but also to ensure 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.480 that people that live in the countries where these materials are, 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.320 including in our own, are able to realize the full 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:10.480 benefits of those critical minerals. 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:14.559 Everybody needs access to them. The global demand, nif estimates, 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.600 is going to quintuple by the end of the decade. 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:18.880 US demand is going to go up. Global demand is 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.000 going to go up. Do you find that there's a 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.600 tension between making sure that we are going to have 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.560 enough of the products we need as opposed to other 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.080 countries who also have to decarbonize. Is that part of 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.319 the consideration when you're developing. 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:36.240 These projects in this case, because that demand is so great. 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.439 We know a couple things. One, we know we need 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.040 to invest at home, and there's so much work that's 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.160 happening through the legislation that I mentioned already, and all 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.959 of the new authorities and capabilities given to the Department 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.160 of Energy and other parts of our administration to give 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.840 grants to help move forward new lithium production for example, 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.320 and thinking through new ways to do processing. And we'll 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.720 do a lot here at home. But the truth is 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.400 this demand is so great it is one of the 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.240 perfect places for diplomacy to come in because we can't 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.720 do this without partners. We can't do it, they can't 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.359 do it, and the world needs to see the capabilities 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.079 be able to serve this demand. Additionally, I think we've 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:14.120 learned a lot in the last several years about what 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.959 really takes have resilient supply chains and the redundancies you need, 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.800 and the capabilities to open up markets in a meaningful way. 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:22.640 And so this is I don't want to say a 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.360 rare occasion, because, like I said, as a trained diplomat, 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.800 I think almost all occasions lend themselves to being able 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.040 to work with partners around the world. But I think 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.480 this one is really uniquely situated, and we're not going 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:35.880 to do anyone any favors. If we just secure our 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.280 supply for our market, that of course is our top priority. 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.520 That is what we will do, what we need to do, 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:45.080 and we're deeply committed to the clean energy revolution here 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:49.319 at home. But we want to see evs deploy all 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.240 around the world. We want to see the rest of 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.480 the world electrify and actually have access to power. This 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.200 is how we meet our climate goals. And if we 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.720 learned anything, that's just something that one we really truly 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:01.640 can't do on its own. 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.200 So let's talk a little bit more about diplomacy and 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.240 countries coming together to try to solve what is of 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.680 course a global problem. After COP twenty six in Glasgow, 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.040 there seemed to be a real feeling of breakthrough. We 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:16.480 as a global community had accomplished something and made a 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.520 big step forward in the fight against climate change. After 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.160 COP twenty seven last year, the feeling seemed to be 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.360 a lot more mixed. So where do you think we 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.920 now stand as a global community in this fight against 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.240 climate change? And what do you, as a negotiator think 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.520 needs to happen next? Sure, and I should caveat. I 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.240 am no longer a negotiator. Now I have the opportunity 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:40.120 to run these other initiatives. But I was very lucky 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.960 to have the opportunity to negotiate on behalf of the 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.719 US during a pretty pivotal moment in US realizing our 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.800 goals and making the Paaris Agreement real and codifying those 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.360 and now we're going into the COP and the UAE 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:55.079 where we're having our first global stock take, and all 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.200 along the way, the IPCC is doing its job releasing 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.520 the reports to really demonstrate where we need to do 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.959 more work right to bring down our emissions in a 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.120 way that's going to meaningfully keep us on track with 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:11.599 our climate ambition. So going up to the COP in Glasgow, 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.480 it was a particularly exciting time for me. I was 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.400 honored to be able to be the person at the 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.560 White House, a part of a very small team that 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.760 was preparing our President and others to participate in the 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.960 conversations in Glasgow, of course, working very closely with our 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.360 Special Presidential Envoy for Climate, John Kerry's team, And that 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.360 was a really exciting year for lots of reasons, but 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.760 for the US especially, we were demonstrating that we were 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.520 back that we were going to bring ambition forward. We 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:44.320 released incredibly ambitious NDC and work to bring the world along, 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.120 not just us leading that charge, but many others to 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.320 make sure that we're making the commitments that we need to. 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.720 That's a very energizing space to be in, and I 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.200 think that what happens after a moment like that is 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.440 that we all have to take a collective breath. And 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.040 I think that's what's been happening, figuring out how we 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.280 actually now realize and implement. And so that's a couple 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.600 different pieces. I think we saw the private sector and 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.320 the financial community really come together and make ambitious targets 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.560 and commitments, both in partnership with governments and on their own. 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.680 I think we've seen interesting and exciting breakthroughs in technology, 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.200 and we've seen now a need to figure out how 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.880 we bring that all together. And so it's only natural 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.960 and I'm always the optimist that the enthusiasm feels different 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.520 when you're doing the rallying charge right, and now we 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.520 have to figure out how to make it all work. 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:36.600 That's part of the reason why I think the partnership 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:40.240 with global infrastructure investment is so important, because not only 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:43.640 are we trying to think about opportunities for countries around 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.640 the world to deploy renewables and to reform their digital 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:52.719 sectors and put forward new healthcare facilities and opportunities. We're 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.000 thinking about doing all of that in the lowest emission, 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.120 most resilient way that we possibly can. And so we're 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.400 trying to show up not only about what we're doing 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.880 in our own economy, but as part of the global community. 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:04.600 And we're not doing it alone. We have the G 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.079 seven by our side, we have many other countries by 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.080 our side, and that's going to take some time, and 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:14.240 so we might not be able to see the results 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.760 of that this year next year, but I really deeply 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.800 believe we're laying that foundation, and as we go into 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.680 this next COP I think they'll be another significant call 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.480 to action, especially when we have an opportunity to really 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.160 kind of see where we can find other areas for 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.560 improvement when we look where we're at collectively together. So 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:36.000 I'm curious the IRA the Inflation Reduction Act, which was 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.600 pasted last August, is obviously a landmark piece of climate 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.360 legislation for the US, but it's been criticized by some 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:46.320 of our traditional allies for making them less competitive in 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.160 the global space. How would you respond to that? Is 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.880 there a way to shore up our own needs and 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.280 our supply chains without leaving our allies out in the cold? 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:00.840 I mean, I think that's exactly why PGII exist, as 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.080 well as some of our other important diplomatic partnerships, ones 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.640 that have been around for a long time, and then 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.480 new ones that are being conceived in real time as well. 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:14.640 And so I think that in the broader scheme of things, 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.480 it was time for the US to legislate to demonstrate 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.080 no matter where we are in our foreign policy as 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.480 time goes on, we have made that commitment. We have 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.480 jumped across that precipice at home, and we are putting 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:32.880 forward the incentives and commitment to pushing this transformation forward. Ultimately, 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.600 that sets the wheels spinning for so much more to 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.760 happen in the world. And we're seeing other countries and 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.640 other groups of countries making their own versions of similar commitments. 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.440 And you know, the Europeans are figuring out in real 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:50.240 time how they're thinking about their own critical mineral materials 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.440 work through that new Act that they put forward, as 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.560 well as what they're doing on the battery Alliance, and 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.920 there's room for all of these efforts to live together 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.240 as long as we keep coordinating, as long as we 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.760 keep our discussions open. I think we're all generally looking 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.640 at the same north star, which is to decarbonize, to 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.160 grower economies, and to ensure that we're not leaving others behind. 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.320 On the White House's website for the Partnership for Global 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.200 Infrastructure and Investment, they mentioned that the G seven has 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.120 mobilized six hundred billion dollars, of which two hundred billion 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.000 is coming from the US. And then there's a line 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.480 that says, this six hundred billion is only the beginning. 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:28.120 So what do you think is going to happen next? 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.520 Yeah, let me also add, we're giving ourselves five years 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:32.280 to hit that target. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.240 We are giving ourselves five years to hit that target. 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:35.800 That is an important note to make. 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.760 Yeah, but of course it is only the beginning. Once 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.640 we're able to actually prove that how we're working through PGII, 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.760 which is not only across multiple sectors, not only in 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.200 innovative ways, but to really create quarters of economic success, 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.280 we will continue to bring the private sector along with us. 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.440 And so what I think is really special about this initiative. 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.040 How it's being implemented across the G seven is that 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.760 we're saying, this is just public dollars. We're going to 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:05.080 put our public dollars in thoughtful, strategic places. We're going 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.480 to spend the time with the leaders of the countries 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.000 that are trying to reform their sectors to attract investment 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:14.119 and really work through those enabling environment, those regulatory issues, 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.040 and bring the private sector behind us. Working to bring 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.960 the financial institutions along. And I know that might sound 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.040 like a very overally optimistic view, but if you spend 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.000 time with all of the financiers that are figuring out 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.560 where and how to spend their dollars, it's naturally going 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.120 to be absorbed. In the US and the OECD governments 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.119 do need to do that extra step to demonstrate that 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.080 there is project pipeline, there is opportunity that will stand 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.719 behind in de risk and so I deeply believe it 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.600 is the beginning. We have work to do. I think 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.840 that we have to definitely spend these next few years 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.119 demonstrating the success of this theory of the case. But 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:54.520 we're seeing so much change already as an administration. So far, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.280 we've spent a good deal of time, more time than 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.040 we had in the past, really showing up on the 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.200 continent of Africa. And by no means am I saying 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.119 that's efficient, just saying that we really started putting in 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.119 that effort in that time and working with leaders across 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:12.680 the continent, and it's paying off. I hope they feel 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:17.119 for them, and I can see us finding new opportunities 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.800 to really move the ball there and around the world, 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.240 and so I definitely hope this is only the beginning. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.000 And I have a final question about the PGII, which 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.600 is that there's been a long standing tension between climate 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.760 adaptation and climate mitigation, and the US has long been 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:35.800 on the side of climate mitigation, which is to say, 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.040 let's decarbonize as much as possible, it's halt climate change. 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.320 On the other side is climate adaptation, which says, you 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.480 know what, climate change is happening, It's going to have 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.120 some huge effects on the globe. How do we protect 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.159 ourselves against those forthcoming effects. So, now you're working on 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:53.520 a project that is focused on infrastructure and developing economies, 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:56.639 do you ever find that there is this tension between 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.199 adaptation and mitigation in these projects? Do you have to 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.280 try to balance it and where do you come down 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:04.000 on that side when you're deciding what to fund. 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.800 Yeah, this is one of the situations where I am 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.400 relieved that I don't have the hard task of being 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.160 a climate negotiator on any side of this issue right now, 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.720 as we're sorting out what's really next for adaptation as 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.919 a means for addressing what we know are going to 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.720 be impacts of climate change that are going to happen, 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.800 and we have to prepare ourselves and other economies for those. 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:26.760 But the how is tricky and that will be kind 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:28.960 of sorted out in the negotiating rooms over the next 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.800 few years. Where we sit as we're thinking about how 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.720 we deploy dollars, how we look at projects that exemplify 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.520 the principles that we're trying to emulate. I think that 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.000 there really isn't attention, and I'll tell you why. First 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.240 and foremost, when you're thinking about infrastructure, you have to 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.439 think about it from both angles. So, if we're thinking 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.680 about how we de carbonize economies and actually give them 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:55.680 a support access that is clean energy. However, when you're 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.640 thinking about citing clean energy projects or new types of investments, 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.560 whether it's in the tublecommunications space, or the healthcare space, 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.200 or in the agricultural space. You need to think about 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.800 how that's deployed in a way that's climate resilient, that 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.160 works in those economies, that it will last as an 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.480 investment that is bankable, because once again, at the end 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.120 of the days, the public finance can do a lot, 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.760 but it can't do the whole thing. And that's a 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:21.679 big part of the reason why over the last several 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.919 months we've incorporated agriculture, which I'm not saying is inherently 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:29.000 climate resilience, but definitely is a place where you think 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:34.000 through how to mitigate the challenges of climate change, but 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.199 also to adapt to the fact that in many of 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.920