WEBVTT - Gangbusters on Democracy 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.720 Good morning, Keeps, and welcome to ook F Daily with 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:19.600 Meet your Girl. Daniel Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:24.160 Happy Memorial Day. I hope that you have the day off. 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.720 I hope that you are doing something outdoors that if 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.199 the sun is shining where you are today. Coming up 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.839 my conversation, my weekly conversation with our friend, our in 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:40.360 house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. And you know, Jonathan and 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:46.400 I get into a conversation on tactics and what tactics 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:52.279 we think that Democrats should be imploring as Republicans continue 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:59.400 to run gangbusters with their anti LGBTQ, anti black, anti 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:07.600 people of anti women, anti abortion, anti democracy, slate of 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:12.440 policies and bills, that they are just drowning, drowning the 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.920 country in And you know, recently we've talked about on 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.760 this show, and I've talked about on others about the 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:25.800 NAACP's call for a travel advisory, HRC's call for a 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:29.960 travel advisory, and other people to Florida, and we you know, 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.640 I've had conversations on this show. I have called for 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.120 a national boycott. I think that if you want to 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:39.240 see real change in this country, it looks like shutting 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.120 down capitalism. It looks like shutting this country down, grinding 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:44.560 it to a halt, and not in the way that 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:46.840 the Republicans are trying to do with the debt ceiling. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:49.160 Who knows, by the time that this airs, maybe they 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:50.440 will have concocted a deal. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:51.680 You know. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.080 Again, I won't hold my breath because I don't want 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:58.880 to pass out. But the reality is that money talks 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.280 and bullshit walks. And I believe that boycott's work. I 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.600 believe it's why Martin Luther King called for a boycott 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:08.440 of the state of Alabama back in nineteen sixty five. 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:13.400 I believe that a call for a boycott nationally, though, however, 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.880 will do a lot more damage like a walkout and 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:21.279 be like, so we're done right until this country returns 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.440 to its democratic values. And look, I am very well 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.520 aware that America is flawed as fuck, But what we 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.040 have seen transpired over the last seven to eight years 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:36.120 under the Maga regime is absolutely abhorrent. Like it is 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.480 things that we have never seen in our lifetime and 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:40.840 have only read about in history books that are now 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:46.160 fucking banned in states around this country. And so when 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.280 we look at this and we realize that at this time, 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.400 this critical time in our body politic, that the people 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.680 still have a voice, still have a voice. We have 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.400 got to utilize it to the best of our ability. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.680 We have got to take the action right, the drastic actions. 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.840 And look, I'm not saying that boycotts are easy. I'm 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.440 not saying that it will be a magical you know, 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.360 switching on of the lights and then all will be 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.880 well in this sea of darkness that we seem to 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.680 be swimming in. But what I am seeing, what I 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.400 am saying, is that people need to recognize their power. 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:21.040 Right. 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.200 No one is trying to take away your vote if 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.040 it didn't matter right. Nobody is trying to ban books 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.560 if education is not power right. Nobody is trying to 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:34.240 shut down trans people and non binary people, if living 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:38.839 in your truth isn't powerful right and doesn't encourage other 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.960 people to do the same and drop the fucking charades 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:46.280 and lies right that they have been leading their entire lives. 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.760 You see, trans people represent power in this country, the 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:55.160 power to live in your truth, to stand in that truth, 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:59.560 and to buck systems and conventions that tell you that 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:01.920 you don't know who you are, but that they know 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.920 who you are right, that you need to just fall 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:09.600 in line right otherwise you will stand to be erased. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:14.280 And so what I recognize is that the experience that 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.279 we're having right now at the hands of these right 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:22.000 wing fascists, white supremacists is their fear, and they lash 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.799 out with their fear, and it is hateful legislation left 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.799 and right, front and back. And the way to stop 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:33.640 it from happening is to stop it from happening, right. 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.920 Not to pretend that because right now you live inside 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.400 of a blue state that we're like, oh, we're good, right, Like, oh, 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.640 California will always be blue, where New York will always 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.880 be blue. No, it's not because I in the last 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.680 election for governor here all of a sudden, Kathy Hockle 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.800 is go in and run in the campaign speeches in 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.679 places like the Bronx where they haven't seen a governor. 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:03.840 I don't think ever, because Lee Zelden came that fucking close. Right, 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.479 She's still won by double digits, but it should have 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:12.000 been a much larger margin than it was. So understand 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:17.359 that the tactics that are being used are same, same 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.599 but a little different right where they're not just coming 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.400 for blue states but they're coming for blue cities and 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.520 different disenfranchising them and the way that they have done 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.520 in Nashville, in the way that they've done in Memphis, 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.880 right and giving all power to rural areas. And what 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.000 are rural areas largely full of white people? 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:38.279 Right? 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.800 Racist white people, not just any type of white people. 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:44.960 So I think that it's really important for us to 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:50.760 think about the tactics of boycotts and whether it's time 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:55.520 to really employ them in a way that is nationalized 0:05:56.000 --> 0:06:00.719 as a way to fight back against the unrelenting anti 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:06.320 democratic forces at play in the Republican Cultish Party. So 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:15.160 coming up next my conversation with our friend doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.520 you know that whenever we have the opportunity to sit 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.039 down with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, I 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.840 am always thrilled and pleased. And Jonathan, I want to 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:31.120 start off today's conversation with what the NAACP has issued 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.039 over the last couple of days, which is a warning 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.560 to black travelers. It is a warning to anyone that 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:46.480 is from a marginalized community, namely LGBTQ people and black people, 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.080 that Florida is a dangerous place for you to be 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:54.440 traveling too, that you need to be aware of the 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:59.320 rules and your rights before you travel to this state. Now, 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.359 in real response to that, you had the likes of 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.880 Ted Cruz say that Martin Luther King would be, you know, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:10.360 disappointed with who the NAACP is. And then funny enough, 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:17.440 you had academic historians bring receipts that offered that Martin 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:22.040 Luther King called for a similar warning or ban of 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:26.560 Alabama in nineteen sixty five because of its rise in 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.800 white domestic terrorism. So I want to get your first 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:34.760 year reactions to what is very much a symbolic move, 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:39.200 but is one that hasn't taken place in the twenty 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:39.920 first century. 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.120 Well, it's interesting. It follows up on the conversation that 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.760 you and I had last week, actually, which is there's 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:53.240 so much violence happening right now on every level, physical violence, 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:57.240 emotional violence, racial violence. And the question is what's the 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.440 response to it. And our conversation lest week for people 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.440 who didn't catch it, it's like, what do you boycott 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.600 and step back or do you step forward? And what's 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.200 the value of a boycott? And what we talked about 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.280 last week, I'll just repeat what I said, which is 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:16.920 that my concern is that we end up boycotting too much, 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.360 and the boycotts are too diffuse and they don't have 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.080 the impact that they that they may have had. And 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.760 so before we get to Florida, I just want to 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:27.920 say that I still think that's the question. 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:27.960 Like. 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.080 Do you quit Twitter or do you step forward and 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.600 have everybody you know go on Twitter and try to 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:39.120 drown out the other voices? Which is hard, But I 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:43.280 guess the issue is, and we talked about this last week, 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.520 is it better to be present and fighting back or 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.000 is it to be to be stepping back and saying whatever? 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.400 And my concern from a financial perspective, and I think 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.679 Twitter is a good example that boycotts in this social 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.760 media age don't just don't. If there are too many 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:05.560 of them happening, they don't have the effect. And sometimes 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.520 the impulse to step back should be balanced against an 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.600 impulse to step forward. I mean, what if every liberal 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:14.959 person today got a blue check on Twitter and started 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.720 blasting tweets again and stuff like that, like started flooding 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:22.400 the zone. You know, it's it's a strategy, you know, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.240 do do we do we just go somewhere else? Or 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:28.960 do we step forward and and and both are both 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:32.000 are forms of resistance, both are forms of fighting. But 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.160 my concern again is that there's that you end up 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.920 in a position where it's it's easy to counter and 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.760 you're just limiting your voice. And I've seen this in 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.480 many instances. I mean, we could debate other place boycotts, 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.320 you know, bds being one of them, and other other 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.040 kinds of boycotts, and I just think you really have 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.960 to really strategically, first of all, pick your battles. And 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:59.839 then second there's a just in this era, which there was, 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.560 I mean, I don't know, I should probably know this, 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.120 but I don't know in the Martin Luther King era 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.640 where there are counter boycotts of blue states and things 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.680 like that. But I know in this era, with social 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.000 media and everything like that, the strategy of boycott is 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:22.040 very easily countered by boycotting bud Light or boycotting New York, 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:27.880 or boycotting any kind of blue state thing. And so 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.319 for these reasons you can hear my voice. I'm concerned 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:35.080 about this as a strategy just because it might not 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.200 have the effect it that it seems like it would have, 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:40.720 even though it makes it makes a lot of emotional sense. 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:47.160 But what would a massive right wing boycott of New 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:48.800 York look like or something like that. 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.120 I would love it. I would love it. Stay away, 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.160 you know, it would make Times Square so much more, 0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:00.920 a bit like easy, easy manage everything was right, So 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.080 stay away. We're making we we spend enough money and 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.160 do enoughing as New York is here to sustain New York. 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.760 But no, let's I mean, let's unpack the Twitter example, right, 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.880 because I think that this is one that people much 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:20.280 like us, people like us who use Twitter for work, 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:25.720 use Twitter to amplify our our work and messages of 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:30.080 our colleagues, and whether or not to stay on right. 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.440 And I think that each of us vacillate between I'm 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.520 gonna leave this place's as cesspool, I'm going to stay, 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.840 I'm going to fight, and I honestly, Jonathan, for me, 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:45.720 it comes down to self care right where I announced 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.880 this earlier this week that I'm going to take a 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.800 break from Twitter for the month of June. I don't 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:59.920 feel like being being like lauded with anti LGBT, anti black, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:05.120 like just anti equality justice, all of these things in 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.160 the month of June, which is Pride Month. As a 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.960 black queer woman, you will see me go on there 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.720 and post. But will I stay and like be in 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.559 conversation with folks. No, I'm not gonna do that because 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:21.160 my emotional wellbeing deserves a break. And I think that 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.400 what we are finding is that more people are finding 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:30.479 themselves not just abandoning the platform altogether, but taking longer 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:35.640 breaks from the platform because it's not it doesn't have 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.839 the same utility it did, right, I mean, you talk 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.520 to me about this about you know, I don't understand 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.440 this tweet has you know, fifty retweets and a six 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.600 months ago it would have had one hundred and fifty retweets, right, 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:53.880 And you know, and I also know the issue with 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.120 leaving the platform in that way and the algorithms that 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:02.840 are already working against you. But again, it's like how 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.720 long can you stay in a space and in a 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:15.720 place that is incredibly hostile, that is incredibly violent and 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:20.280 think that you are actually doing something good to move 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:21.240 the needle forward? 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.400 Right? And to be clear, I mean, self care should 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:29.199 come first, for sure, And my concern is not to dictate. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.480 I honestly don't have an answer to this. I don't know, 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.000 you know, as I said before, like my concern is 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:40.280 that we do so much stepping back, and then what's 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:43.240 our strategy for the twenty twenty four election when we 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.280 really need to Now there's no doubt, there's no doubt 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:50.440 that the algorithms of Twitter have been turned against us this. 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.400 You know, if you're a liberal on Twitter, you see 0:13:53.440 --> 0:14:01.840 it happen, and that the platform is monetizing Tucker Carlson 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.560 and the Dasantis announcement and all that kind of stuff. 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.440 But I guess the question is then what's our what's 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.840 our counter strategy? And I don't know, I'm not a 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.400 tech person. Is our counter strategy to stay in a 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.600 place where we can argue back against people? But it's 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:18.520 not just about arguing back against people. It's also, of 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.240 course the role of mobilizing, mobilizing those numbers of people. 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.800 And there's just for me, a cautionary tale and all 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:27.800 this stuff with Twitter, because remember we were all the 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.520 people who were like cheering when Elon Musk was like 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.000 trying to back out, and we were like, you know, 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.120 don't you know you got to buy it, sucker and 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.360 that kind of stuff. We were probably mistaken about that, 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:42.240 but also we you know, we've we there was a 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.920 vacuum created, which is on purpose that that's obviously his strategy. 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.920 But the vacuum was he lost a lot of liberals 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.160 and he's gaining an awful lot of conservatives. And so 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.160 now the megaphone for this huge public square has been 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:59.000 just seized by the other side. And and I guess 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.640 the question is, like, what's the lesson in that? And 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.560 I don't know. I'm asking that question. I really truly 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:10.440 don't know. But my concern is again leading into twenty four. 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.200 If our answer is an app with much smaller reach, 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.080 which only speaks to people who already agree with us, 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.400 who are already going to vote for people we want 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.040 them to do, we kind of lose what Twitter once 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:28.120 once offered us. And so I'm not sure. I mean, 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.119 I go back and forth the most. 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.080 You know, in all honesty, and I've said this before, 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.880 I believe that people are going to do what they 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.560 have always done throughout the history of organizing, which is 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:47.080 you cannot just rely on social media platforms that you 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.520 do not own right to be those unless they were 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.880 in less Congress were to have turned Facebook and Twitter 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.840 into a public utility, right and then have the power 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.040 over it in the way that they could have. You 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.840 as an organizer, cannot just rely on tools that you 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.760 don't own, right in order in order to fight the oppressor. 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.200 That just doesn't make any sense. And so you're going 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.160 to have to do what folks are doing in Georgia, 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:20.280 what folks did in Alabama, what folks did in Wisconsin, 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:25.240 is use the original organizing tools, which is of gathering 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.000 people together, right, which is of knocking on doors and 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.760 going to town halls and creating those opportunities for people 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:37.440 to connect in real life. Because it's harder to threaten 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:41.360 somebody's life and curse them out face to face than 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.400 it is on you know, on the social media apps. 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:46.520 And so, you know, I think that it is a 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.880 both and I think that it is lazy to solely 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.560 rely on social media platforms that you don't own in 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:54.840 order to get your message out. It's why the rest 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.760 of us have had to diversify. Okay, well, we used 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.520 to use Facebook, and then Facebook, you know, is not 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.720 that is not that tool, and then it was then 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.000 it's Instagram, and then it's Vine, and then it was this, 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.199 and then it was that. It's like, there is a 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.520 level of adaptability. But I think that the lesson here 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.440 is that you cannot get too comfortable in places that 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:14.400 you do not own. 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.400 Yeah, for sure, So maybe we need to own more stuff, right, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:19.800 I mean, so I mean that maybe that's the lesson 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.280 is like, you know, we should have on Twitter, you know, 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:25.760 But I mean I think that's that's fair, is like, 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.440 how can we own more stuff? I think that's exactly right. 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.760 I think there are two caveats to that that I'll 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.200 just throw in. Number one is it's not just about 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.320 amplifying your message. It's also what's the validity of the 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.560 stuff you're hearing, Like is the are the right wing 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.200 boycotts working now or are they just being amplified by 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.680 social media? It's hard to know all these other stories. 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.120 Is DeSantis a real candidate or is he just being 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.400 boosted now by Twitter? And so it's not just about 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.439 your own message, It's like what else is being amplified 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:01.280 beyond you know, what's real and what's being amplified by 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.160 social media. So there's a kind of way of listening 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.639 that you have to do also, not just about your 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:11.440 own message. And then second is I do think there's 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.360 something And I say this with a heavy heart because 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:16.920 I just want to be honest, I love bud Light. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.719 Bud Light has been there for me at times in 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.679 my life. Bud Light never wanted to hurt anybody. It 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:27.280 just wanted to make everybody happy. Bud Light is like boycotting, 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:32.240 like your family pet. But the right wing boycotted bud 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.480 Light over I mean, the idiocy of that boycott is 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:40.720 should be stated, right, which is that advertising is targeted. 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.480 That's how advertising works. So different communities get advertised to 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.280 by influencers who matter to them. And so if there's 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:53.120 a transactivist who has two million followers, the trans community 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:54.800 is going to be seeing ads from them. But the 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.800 people who are doing country music in rural Georgia are 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:00.600 not going to be seeing the trans activist. They're going 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.080 to be seeing a country music star and stuff like that. Like, 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.439 advertising is targeted toward your community. So this idea that 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.080 like trans stuff was being shoved down on people's throats 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.480 is not how advertising works. But that being a side, 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.440 I do think there's something important about this bud Light boycott, 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.920 which is it did actually have an effect beyond what 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.280 anybody thought. And so I think, you know, the interesting 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.080 thing for me is that that's usually a strategy of 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.280 the left, these kind of boycotts and protests, and I 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:32.680 bet we see more of this on the right. 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:34.879 I mean, but we've seen it. I mean, this is 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.640 this is Their boycotts look like bands, right, Like their 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.879 boycotts look like Oh one parent in Miami Dade County 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.879 has said that they don't they don't like a poem 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:50.399 of a Pulitzer Prize winner, and so that poem is 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:55.320 now taken right, Amanda Gorman's poem that was read at 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.000 inauguration is now taken out of an elementary school. It 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.640 looked they have been like, this is not new. None 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.080 of this is new, right it is. It is not. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.520 Boycotts are not employed by one side or the other. 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.760 It is effective based on the amount of public pressure 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.560 and or acceptance. You just saw the Dodgers turn around 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:25.680 after being pressured by to disinvite a LGBTQ of organization 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.040 from like I guess their parade or their game or 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.960 like whatever. And now they were pressured by the right 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.879 to do that. Then there was all of this blowback, 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.960 and now they have reinvited the people right because again 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.280 the public, the public pressure on the right side of 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.439 history outweighed the detractors. You know, there was somebody that 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:50.440 put up and said, you know, when you go back 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:55.600 in time, how thirty percent of the country was for segregation, 0:20:56.200 --> 0:21:00.000 was against integration, was for like you know, didn't care 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:04.439 about the assassination of MLK, was for you know, was 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.000 against women voting, Like it's always thirty percent. And so 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:12.000 I think that sometimes we get caught up in what 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.960 we are currently facing and not really understanding the historical 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.159 context of it as a way to be our guide, 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:22.480 not just like our woe is me, Yeah, it fucking 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.760 sucks where we are, but like we cannot woe is 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.440 me ourselves about all the ways in which they're employing 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.120 the same tactics they've been employing since people have tried 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.680 to get their rights right from the hands of slave owners. 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:40.360 And I'll admit, like I'm certainly probably playing the role 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:42.119 of the white street man this morning. 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:45.800 You know, do you play a different role. 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:49.320 I'm just saying, like I'm I'm like remember Ed McMahon, 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:51.399 like in the old days, like you know, he would 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.439 just be like throwing the stuff in. So I'm gladly 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.639 Ed McMahon this morning. I accept that, But I will 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:01.480 say I think there was something about this corporate boycott, 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.240 this bud Light boycott, that was different for me at 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:07.560 least than a band. I crew through with a band, 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.240 a band. Like there was a great story in the 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:15.199 Post or Times yesterday about how like ninety percent of 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.080 all the social media posts about the book bands were 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:21.840 coming from like twelve accounts, right, that were amplified accounts. 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.600 So that's a place where social media we can see 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:27.520 like everybody wasn't for a bookman, most people aren't for 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:30.040 a book, aren't for a book ban, but these twelve 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:33.640 accounts like amplified it. And so the question is how 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:37.160 do you counter that strategy? Right? And so it's really 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:39.520 I think what's our counter strategy when that kind of 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:42.679 stuff happens. But I do think there was something about this, 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:45.120 I will say I do think there was something about 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.200 this bud Light band, whether or not it goes anywhere, 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:51.639 that was different from a band in that it mobilized 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:53.879 a bunch of people to turn on something that was 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:56.280 seen as like an everyday part of their life, like 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:58.800 light beer is. I don't know, I play a lot 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.399 of sports. Light beer is like it's like second to 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:04.560 like putting on your shoes for a lot of people, 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.240 as far as how important it is in sports, and 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.240 so the idea that they could kind of get everybody 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:13.760 to participate in this, I think is something that will 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:16.639 get corporate America to pay attention, maybe in a different 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:21.159 way or maybe not. But but but but so I 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:22.640 just want to say that I think there are two 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:24.760 strategies that are different, but they kind of all link 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:27.520 back to our bigger question which you started with, which 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:29.800 is kind of so, what do we make of Florida. Well, 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:34.560 of course, what's happening in Florida is horrific. It's it's 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:38.280 important that people take a stand. This band is important 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:40.520 for having conversations. Of course, there are a lot of 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:44.320 people who are impacted by what's happening in Florida who 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:49.000 are not white, and it's terrifying what's happening. And so 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:52.000 I'd be curious to see how this plays out. I 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:55.960 think it's important they did it. Of course I support it. 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:59.439 The danger of boycotts I've seen like having I know 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:03.879 the BDS boycott really well, and it was like a 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:07.960 very important and noble cause. And the unintended effect, or 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:11.119 maybe the intended effect of what happened in BDS is 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:14.600 that there were a lot of anti Zionist pro Palestinian 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:22.080