WEBVTT - Peloton's New Spin and Disney's ESPN (Podcast) 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.600 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:10.879 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:27.560 Emily Jay. I'm Emily Shack in San Francisco, and this 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.160 is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour, Build 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:32.720 your Own Bike As Peloton looks to cut cost, the 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:37.320 fitness company is planning redesign so that customers can assemble 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:39.600 their own bikes at home. Will customers spin for it? 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:44.120 We'll discuss. Plus, activist investor Dan Loebe is calling for 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:48.120 changes at Disney. Details on his new steak and why 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:53.600 he's urging a spinoff of ESPN, and how Google Maps 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:58.840 routinely misleads people searching for abortion clinics, Why and why 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.320 it's ever more critical in a post grow World War. 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:07.000 On our Bloomberg analysis later this hour. To that Disney story, 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.800 activist investor Dan Lobe urging Disney to make a sweeping 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.880 set of changes to boost shareholder value, including new board 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.800 members and spinning off esp the PN. Lobe's third point, 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.240 taking what it calls a significant steak in Disney. Here 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.759 to discuss. Paul Verna of Insider Intelligence in Bloomberg's Leona Baker, 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.680 Leona some of the changes that Dan Lobe is calling 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.080 for here not necessarily new ideas. I mean, we've heard 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.520 talk about spinning off ESPN for years. Um, what is 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.400 Dan Lobe suggesting and why? Well that's right Emily. In 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.800 the letter, if you read it, Lobe actually says Disney 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.559 might be working on some of these things already, although 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.520 sources close to Disney's tell me you know, there's not 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:53.360 gonna be an espn uh spinoff anytime soon. But some 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:55.760 of the other things that Lobe is calling for, like 0:01:55.840 --> 0:02:00.200 cost cuts and buying a steak in Hulu from Comcast US, 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.240 these are things that investors have kind of been expecting 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.240 for years. And this is loped second bye of the 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:10.600 Apple at Disney. Remember, he had also taken a stake 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.880 and asked for changes like Disney scrapping the dividend and 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.240 putting all that investment into the streaming product. Those are 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.160 things that Disney never really did. So we'll see if 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.800 he has a better shot this time around. Lobe is 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.440 a big name in the world of activists investing. He's 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.360 shaken up companies like Yahoo and Sony over the years, 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:30.560 but he does have a mixed track record as to 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.239 really seeing the changes that he's asking for lobes. Letter 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:39.160 to Disney initially starts off, you know, fairly flattering to 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.440 CEO Bob Jpeg. Then he sort of digs in, saying 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.440 ESPN is a great business that currently generates significant free 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.760 cash flow. Despite these advantages, we believe a strong case 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.359 can be made that ESPN should be spun off to 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:56.400 shareholders with an appropriate debtload that will alleviate leverage at 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.520 the parent company. Uh Disney responding sort of thing banks 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:04.440 not quite but not quite, No thanks, saying, we welcome 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.480 the views of all our investors. As our results demonstrate, 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.560 the Walt Disney Company continues to deliver strong financial results 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:13.600 powered by world class storytelling and our unique and highly 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:18.320 valuable content creation and distribution ecosystem. Paul, what do you 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.280 make of this? Well? I think it's always got to 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:25.079 stir the pot, you know, dialogue is always helpful and 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:28.480 and it's interesting to to put out these ideas. But 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.679 I don't think if I were bought ta Peck, I'm 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.840 keeping espn' I'm not spinning it off. ESPN does a 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:40.280 lot of things for Disney Sports. For one, it does 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.720 a couple of things that no other form of entertainment. 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.400 Does one is, uh, you have loyalty, so you know, 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:48.920 someone is more likely to tune out the next season 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.840 of The Mandalorian if they don't like a plot twist 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.080 or something about the casting, but they're not likely to 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.360 just stop watching Major League Baseball or li Liga or 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.160 whatever else they watch on esp end. And then there's 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.760 this whole thing about appointment viewing, which is something that's 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.920 kind of a vestige to bygone days, but it still 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.080 exists in sports because the game is taking place when 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.240 it takes place, and people want to watch it. So 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:15.920 I think there's a lot of benefit to having ESPN 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.240 as part of that portfolio. It's not an accident that 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.640 every other media company that Disney competes with has a 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.560 major sports entity as part of their mix. Leanna, you know, 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.560 what do we know about lobes track record and how 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:33.320 likely it is that he'll he'll be successful here, especially 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.719 with a company like Disney, It's hard to say. There 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.720 was a vaguely threatening line in the letter today where 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.800 he said that there's a talent gap on Disney's board 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.160 and that he has good connections and can maybe make 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.760 some introductions to Disney. Now, I don't know, you know 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.279 who Disney needs to meet that doesn't know already. But 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.080 the idea there is that he's floating out with investors 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.000 to see if they'll support him, maybe in a board fight. 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.920 So right now, Disney h their window for directors would 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.040 open later this fall, so Low would have a few 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.240 months to see if he wants to do a board fight. 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.040 He really does have a mixed track record at taking 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.560 over boards. Um, at Yahoo back in you had a 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.240 lot of success, although history will tell whether you know 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.000 Marrissa Meyer was the right move At Southby's the company 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:20.800 went private, but it was a really long haul. It 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.359 took several years, and Sony still hasn't made a lot 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.640 of the changes he's wanted. So while he's a big name, Uh, 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.640 it's not clear that you know, even though he's going 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.760 after this blue ship company, that's a slam dunk that 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.800 all of this will come true. Gosh, I remember covering 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:39.039 that Yahoo lobed Marrissa Meyer story every day for gosh, 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.160 at least a year. Um, Paul, what do you make 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.760 of some of these other changes? New board members? Uh, 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.719 you know, full ownership of who Again, as I said earlier, 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.760 not necessarily new ideas but you know something, something that 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.080 several investors have been calling for for a while but 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:58.559 hasn't happened. Well, I think that Disney buying the share 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.960 that it doesn't own and Hulu from Comcast is a 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.760 good idea. So I agree with Dan Lobe on that one. 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.760 There's a lot of tension within Disney because, on the 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:11.840 one hand, you know, there's a deadline to execute this 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:17.279 deal by so obviously it's in Disney's best interest for 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.480 the price of that chunk to be as low as possible. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:24.280 So it's almost like a weird motivation to drive down 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.400 the value of Hulu. And that's just a very tense 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.000 situation that's going to unfold for the next couple of years. 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.960 Disney already has a controlling interest in Hulu, and in 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.039 my view, they're doing a great job with Hulu. I 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.760 don't see that they should fold it into Disney Plus necessarily. 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:41.840 I think it's a very strong brand on its own. 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.159 So I see a lot of value in basically Disney 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.880 executing on this earlier, even if, as Dan Lobe says, 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:51.640 they have to pay a little bit of a premium 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.520 for it. All right, well, we're going to continue to 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.200 follow this evolving story. We'll see how long it lasts. 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.480 Boomer's Leanna Baker, Paul Verna insider intelligence, thank you, and 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:06.479 more changes for Peloton after last week's layoffs and price hikes. 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.880 Thank d I y. The struggling fitness brand is retooling 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.320 its bikes for self assembly. Yes, that means customers will 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.000 be able to put them together themselves. This is part 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.520 of a wide ranging turnaround for Peloton by its new CEO, 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.760 Barry McCarthy, who's also planning to launch a rowing machine 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:26.160 this year. Bloomberg Smart German covers all things Peloton for us. So, uh, 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.920 let's get this straight. Peloton just raped prices for the bike. 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:33.120 Now it wants customers to put the bikes together themselves. Yeah. 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:34.880 I wonder if Dan Loebe is going to try to 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.000 get his hands on Peloton as well. But there's clearly, uh, 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.720 they have a lot of changes to implement here. So yes, 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.240 one of the initiatives last week is part of the layoffs, 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.600 was really changing their costs and dropping them significantly when 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.440 it comes to distribution and warehouses. Right, so laying off 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.200 over five people that work in distribution. Now, if you 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.560 ever bought a Peloton before this is how it works. 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.080 And you know this already. You order it online and 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.160 they show up to your house a White Glove service, 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.040 they bring it in, they unboxed it for you, and 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.120 they set it up for you. That's a four dollar 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.920 fee to consumers, and that's very expensive for the company 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:10.200 to release, supply and make happen. That's why they're winding 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.680 in the ware houses right now. They're going to start 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.280 moving to third party companies, logistics companies to do that 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.160 White Glove service. The next step is having consumers set 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.960 these devices up themselves, so they're in the process right now. 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.840 The CEO told me an interview last week of redesigning 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.480 its equipment so they can ship it via ups, via 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.400 fed X, whatever you want. You take it home, you 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.080 it arrives at your doorstep, you open the box, you 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.720 put it together yourself. And like you said, d I Y, 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.640 that's obviously not a great customer experience compared to the 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.560 White Glove service, but that would be cheaper for the customer, 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.160 no longer paying that four set up fee, be cheaper 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.920 for Peloton. And if they have redesigned it in such 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.400 a way where it's a fifteen minute process, right with 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.080 just a few parts. It's actually pretty convenient rather than 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.720 having people come into your house. We've covered some of 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.160 the safety issues with Peloton products. I mean, are there 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.760 any safety issues with this? Yeah? I mean I have 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:02.800 to tell you obviously, if you set up a bike 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.480 incorrectly or the rower or treadmill incorrectly, right, and that 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:08.560 thing falls apart because you didn't do a good job, 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.960 you know, setting up the device, that's a clear liability issue. 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.520 So that really comes down to their engineering, their supply chain, 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.640 their operations to figure out a way to make these 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.679 devices work reliably and set up reliably right. So if 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:24.440 you have to have the equipment to do it, the 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.040 right screwdriver, the right screws, that could be a complicated situation. 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.959 So that is definitely a consideration, and I guess we 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.240 just have to hope that Peloton has engineered these things 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.720 so they could be set up quickly and safely. All right? Interesting? 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.960 What will continue to follow your reporting on Peloton? Bloombergs 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:44.240 Mark German as always appreciate it. Meantime, Monday is the 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.760 deadline for hedge funds to disclose their US equity investments 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:49.560 for the second quarter. This is one of the few 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.840 ways that we get inside into how hedge funds and 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:58.600 some large family offices actually invest hedge fund Ducane bought Eli, Lily, CrowdStrike, Maderna, 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.000 and Dated dog Me Time. Tiger Global took new positions 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.120 in Alphabet and Zillo. According to a new thirteen F filing. 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:10.479 Tiger Global also exited positions in DocuSign, Zoom, and Salesforce, 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:22.880 reducing its stakes in Snowflake and Microsoft. This back world 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.520 continues to unravel. At least four planned mergers to go 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:30.040 public have been canceled since the market closed last Friday, 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:33.800 bringing the years tally to two. Those concerns have pushed 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.800 eighty nine backers to withdraw plans to raise fresh capital 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.880 for blank checks. Here to explain that Bloomberg's Bailey lip 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.520 shoalds So, Bailey, just how many of these are we 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.839 talking about here? And why are we seeing so many 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.599 of them? Yeah, So, as you saw the in the 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:49.880 chart that we've seen kind of a growing number that 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.400 has only kind of shot up since the start of 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.920 the year, and that's really coming as we've seen over 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.679 six hundred blank check companies on the hunt for deals 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.120 um that are racing against deadline that either really are 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.080 built up at the end of the first quarter of 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.200 next year, some going into the second quarter of next year, 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.640 but really just over seven hundred SPACs either with signed 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:13.959 deals or chasing to find new target companies to bring public. 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:15.520 When you look at some of the breakups that we've 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.200 seen in the last few days, those are either in 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:22.440 things like electronic vehicles, cryptocurrencies, so a lot of high 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.560 growth technology companies that are ways away from generating any 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.080 kind of EBITA, and that's really something we've seen fall 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.960 out broadly across the actual public markets. So that's part 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.120 of the reason that these plug has been pulled on 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.760 some of these deals. So talk to us about the 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:42.800 broader market for spacks and how this what this bodes 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.079 for the rest of the year. Yeah, so we've seen 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.040 more than sixty actually closed their deals so far this 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.080 year and another hundred are live deals. No, So that 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.040 means that there actually is a partnership between the sponsorship 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.000 team and the target company, So you can you can 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.080 expect to continue to see some of these getting across 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.560 the finish line. But the way these despects are trading 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.720 class is down to media and percent this year, so 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.839 markedly under performing the market, markedly under performing those who 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.600 went public via the traditional I p O. So you 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.520 can expect to see some deals getting across the finish line, 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.679 but there is expectations for liquidations like we saw with 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.520 the Bill Ackman's back, like we saw Sam Zell announcing 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.120 um last week, in addition to expectations that we will 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.600 see some of these deals being broken just because these 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:30.160 terms were agreed to back in December, even through April, 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.959 when the market was in very different shape compared to 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:34.439 where it is right now, where there are so many 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.520 concerns about a potential recession and what lies ahead with 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.679 expectations for the Fed to continue to hike interest rates. 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:44.320 So question does this trend pick back up when or if, 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:49.280 hopefully the markets get better or longer term, our investors 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:54.319 just souring on this as a means of doing business. Yes, 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.520 sponsors are really optimistic that they can get deals done. 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.320 That's why we saw hip its High announcing that they 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.080 planned to push back to deadlines to sometime next year. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.560 Kind of the reading of the room from talking to 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.800 investors is the idea that as the market rebounds, there 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.120 will be some demand for some of these back deals 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.040 to get across the finish line. For some of these 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:18.959 experienced sponsors to find and bring private targets public. But 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.040 the expectations from the people that I talked to is 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:26.320 that the future iteration of spacts in two or four 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:28.520 will really look what like what it did back in 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.520 twenty nine team, where you've got fifty to sixty spacts 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:33.880 filing to go public. They're taking some of these smaller 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.120 target companies public that maybe don't have the following to 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.760 get a bank like a JP Morgan or Goldman Sex 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.320 to underwrite their I p O. And we'll find ways 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.160 to get deals across the finish line. But broadly speaking, 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.320 the expectation is that the go go days that we 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.200 saw in one is very much a thing of the 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:55.440 past and more of an anomaly. Alright, uh, really interesting, 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.000 Bailey lips Sheltz, thank you for covering that story for us. 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.040 All right, Coming up, how conspiracy theorist Alex Jones made 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:07.079 even more money after being taken down from major social 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.160 media platform. We're gonna have more on that next. This 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:30.360 is Bloomberg. In the summer of Apple, Facebook, Spotify, Twitter, 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.040 and YouTube all banned the media company of conspiracy theorist 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.880 Alex Jones, that is Info Wars that means taking down 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:42.000 many of its recorded broadcasts. This after Jones threatened then 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.640 special counsel Robert Muller. The platforms all sided some sort 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.040 of unspecified content policy violation for their decision to d 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:53.280 platform the controversial host, which was supposed to relicate Jones 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:58.440 to relative obscurity. As it turns out, Jones's audience didn't 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.600 quite disappear. In fact, his big business became more lucrative 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.520 than ever. Bloomberg Smacks Chafkin took a deep dive into 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.960 this for us Max. How is this even possible? Well, so, 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.200 there are two things that are going on. One is 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:15.720 that although the big tech companies banned uh info Wars 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.880 pages and in some cases eventually banned Alex Jones, they 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.360 didn't take down you know, they didn't stop the circulation 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.560 of these Sandy Hook related conspiracy theories. They didn't um 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:30.200 stop other people from posting Jones videos, either in support 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.440 or in criticism of him. And as a result, even 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:37.040 though UH he was banned, you've still seen quite a 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.440 lot of Alex Jones on social media, either in the 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.400 form of him appearing on podcasts. You've seen a bunch 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:47.120 of these kind of contrarian edgy types like Joe Rogan 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.360 have Alex Jones on on on on their shows and 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.120 as well as just people out there criticizing him. And 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.520 then the other thing that happened is that, you know, 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.760 Alex Jones used this and turned into a storyline where 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.480 he became this order. Um. He does not make money 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.640 through uh like a traditional media company does. He makes 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.359 money by selling products. So there may be a situation 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.120 where although his audience he's not getting the huge numbers, 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.880 he's making more money off of the audience that he 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.760 does have because he's been able to activate them by 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.120 by spinning this narrative of martyrdom, which, as we learned 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.560 during the trial, it simply isn't true. He's doing uh 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.520 really well financially. You mentioned the trial, of course, uh, 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.760 the judge awarding um the parents of one of the 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.520 Sandy Hook victims tens of millions of dollars. There's also 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:41.080 a Texas verdict another one coming up. Are these verdicts, 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.960 these penalties actually changing the narrative around him or are 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:49.160 they making him potentially more powerful? Well, it's hard to know. 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.320 I mean, what you have you have a jury award 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.800 in Texas that's the fifty million dollars you mentioned. You 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.160 also have this case in Connecticut. Um. In both of 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.360 these cases, Jones has been found to have fame to 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.320 the families, and you have trials to decide on the damages. 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.399 Um and and and the thing is, it's very tempting 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:09.760 even now to say, Okay, well, this is probably the 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.320 end of Alex jones career. You know, he's gone too far. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.000 But but people have been saying this for a long time. 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.440 And you know, as I point out a column, you 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.760 still have lots of people, lots of companies basically enabling 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.679 and and and making money off of this stuff. Alex 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.400 Jones has a book that's coming out. It's it's near 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.280 the top of Amazon's bestseller list. Um, there's a there's 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.520 a documentary, a very sympathetic documentary, uh that that that 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.600 has just come out. So you have lots and lots 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.960 of media types still kind of, like I said, eating 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.840 off of these conspiracy theories in one way or another. Uh. 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.239 And it's it's pretty depressing just because the cruelty as 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.399 we saw during the trial of these conspiracy theories towards 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:58.720 the parents, UM was you know, it's it's disturbing. Yes, well, 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.200 you can read more on that in Max's story. Max, 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.639 thank you for bringing that issue to light with us, 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.680 and we'll be following the verdict from the upcoming trials. 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:20.080 We've been covering the changing digital privacy landscape in a 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.360 post rural world, issues with access to information on abortion 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:28.400 and the power that tech companies have to safeguard that information. Well, 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:32.240 it turns out that even Google Maps regularly misleads people 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.720 searching for abortion clinics. This according to a new analysis 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.520 by Bloomberg News. Let's take a deep dive on this 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.560 with Bloomberg's Jack Gillum, who went through all of the 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.520 data for us. So tell us what you found, Jack, 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.160 So Emily, we wanted to just start out as if 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.800 somebody wanted to find an abortion clinic, right, a very 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.399 straightforward search that you could put into Google Maps. And 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.320 when we did that for all fifty states and the 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.720 District of Columbia, the results were pretty surprising. About a 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.240 quarter of the cases returned not abortion mix but instead 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:05.040 what are called crisis pregnancy centers. These places that are 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.280 often you know, are encouraged to encourage women when they 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.600 come in to uh not get an abortion and even 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.119 though they often will masquerade themselves as a as a 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.400 bona fide abortion clinic or some sort of doctor's office. Um, 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.680 you know, this is very different than if you maybe 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.359 type in a certain maybe fast food chain or type 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:26.000 of restaurant, it will give you alternatives. In this case, 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:29.000 post row, it's led to some confusion among folks. So 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.119 we've spoken with who believe Google, they see the result, 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.160 they assume that it's an abortion clinic, they go there, 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.840 and in some cases they're in for a pretty alarming surprise. 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:43.640 What does this practically mean for those seeking an abortion? So, 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.080 what it means is that if somebody is in need 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.240 of this procedure and they go to one of these 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.560 places and it's a crisis pregnancy center, they can be 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:56.320 sort of drawn into this process and be told, sometimes 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:00.680 with very erroneous, erroneous medical information, that they don't need one. 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.320 We spoke with one woman who in fact googled an 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:08.040 abortion clinic, ended up going to Prices crisis pregnancy center 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.359 and then quickly realized that it was not it was 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.159 not an abortion clinic, was given a rubber fetus, what 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.280 you know, confided in them that in fact she was 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.640 in an abusive relationship and they try to convince her 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.320 that if you just stay in this relationship with the baby, 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.040 things will get better. So, I mean, it's unclear what 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.680 sort of emotional and damage that did to that woman 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.719 and other people who are seeking UM, particularly if they 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.840 are seeking an abortion UM. There might not people who 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:34.760 are up to date on this post row world, And 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:36.919 it really sort of raises questions in a quarter of 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.960 these cases that we found, what happens when somebody is 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:41.840 in need and when they search and get a wrong result. 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:47.120 What's Google doing about this? So they say that they 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.720 have extra layers and verification in place, they have policies 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.000 they say that prevent this, and people can report these 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.880 erroneous results. Um. You know, there's still the critics we've 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.639 spoken to ask, well, is Google doing enough given that 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.399 they to index the world's information and that some of 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.160 these websites are pretty clear that they do not provide abortion. 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.240 Is their way to modify that algorithm and take those 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:13.440 erroneous results in new account? All right, Jack Killen, thanks 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.679 for bringing that story to life. Appreciate it well. For 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.600 more on the implications and the power of tech in 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:24.680 a post ROW world and the impact on tech, telehealth, 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.000 tech investing at large. I want to bring in Susan 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:30.200 Line BBG Ventures managing partner formerly and executive with a 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:32.920 O L and Guilt Group, just to name a few. 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:35.720 So Susan, you know, as we were talking about tech 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:40.240 platforms have incredible power UM in a post row row 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.480 world and obviously have some decisions to make about how 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.240 they lose that use that power. UM. What are you 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:53.439 most concerned about, UM, from the perspective of an investor, UM, 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:57.800 as we see these issues play out. That's a really 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:01.960 good question. I actually think about it more as opportunities 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:07.120 that that exists. UM. You know, it's it's really clear 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:12.400 that uh that women are not being served UH, certainly 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:18.800 in the twenty states that have banned abortion. UM. But additionally, 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.200 I think that there's going to be just a huge 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:28.080 impact on on business overall, and so that always creates opportunity. 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.800 There there will be founders out there who are looking 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:37.280 for solutions that UH enabled companies to really address the 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:43.080 retention issues, the recruitment issues, UM, and the challenges in 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:47.520 a post row era. I mean this is there are 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:51.640 two million fewer women in the workforce today than there 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:56.080