WEBVTT - All About the Woo 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.840 Before we begin, please note that this episode contains discussions 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:07.480 of suicide, mental health struggles, and related topics that some 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:11.480 listeners may find distressing. Listener discretion is advised. If you 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.920 or someone you know is struggling, help is available. You 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.239 can call or text nine eight eight to reach the 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:24.160 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline for free. Brett I didn't actually 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:29.920 see the Friday document video photo dump coming from the 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:33.560 Trump disclosure movement or whatever. I didn't see that coming 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:35.800 until it was almost upon me. 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:36.680 How about yourself. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:41.320 I'm actually more intrigued by two specific reactions. One was 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.120 from one of our congress people who said, Yeah, this 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:48.400 initial stuff is not that exciting, but there's some big, 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.920 holy crap revelations that are coming down the pipeline. And 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.000 I'm thinking, what a strange thing to say, Yeah, forget 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:57.279 about the stuff that you're getting on Friday, there's other 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.400 stuff down the road. What is he talking about and 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.240 why would he put it in that context? 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:02.400 That's number one. Number two. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.280 If you remember, earlier in the week before the dump, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.160 there was this story about again some congress people giving 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.320 a private briefing to a bunch of pastors, getting them 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.759 ready for the revelations that were coming down the pike, 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.080 and it provoked a bunch of content on the internet 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:22.080 about pastors coming out and saying that they were scared 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.560 about what was coming but wanted to be prepared and 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.560 prepare their flock. And I thought, wow, whatever is that 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.559 holy crap revelation that's coming on the pipeline. Somebody felt 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:34.760 it was important to go to a bunch of pastors 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.120 and give them a heads up. So this first dump 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.680 of documents not that exciting. Like you said, we've seen 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.840 and heard a lot about it, but what's to come, 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:44.880 I can't wait. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.640 We'll see, And of course people are talking about the 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.440 fact that these will be coming out regularly. Listen to 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:52.560 my friends who don't know a lot about this. I 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.000 wouldn't want to put down what has happened. It may 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.720 not be full of the greatest content that you've ever 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.760 seen on this topic, but at least there's a process 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:05.480 underway that hasn't quite ever been in existence like this. 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.600 So that's somewhat hopeful, and I do enjoy that. But 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.480 my emotional reaction to it, with this thirty years that 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.720 I have and you have on this topic, is really 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.800 I mean, okay, I am one hundred percent sure, one 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:23.440 hundred percent sure that the US government and probably governments 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:29.800 around the world have HD quality video and HD quality photos, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.839 and they have all the supporting data that supports those 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.840 videos as being real, and that some of those things 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:40.399 would be just shocking as hell to see, For example, 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.919 an anomalous craft inn HD quality that clearly doesn't look 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.760 like anything that you've ever seen before and is just 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.359 feed away from an F eighteen aircraft or something. 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:57.040 Don't you feel though that this is just more slow drip, right? 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.680 We've been in this slow drip mode for deck aids Now, 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.040 and now that we're actually into disclosure, it's just more 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.000 slow drip. When we talked about this episode, we said, 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.880 let's zig where everyone else is zagging this right, And 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.480 I think that going back to that quote about there's 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.800 holy crap stuff coming, what I believe is coming is 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.560 going to be the more unsettling aspects of disclosure, and 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.359 I think we're going to go deep into the phenomenon. 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:24.840 So I think this episode for us is a chance 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.240 to look ahead at to some of the things that 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.600 we think may be coming down the pipeline. 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.840 I just want to reiterate what you just said or 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.520 underline it, because the truth of the matter is, there 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.920 are hundreds of UFO podcasts out there and they're all 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.680 over this topic. And the one thing that has differentiated Sound, 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.520 Light and Frequency is that we have a different lens 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.600 that we look at this thing through, which has been 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.760 film and TV. So when you say zig when everyone 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.040 else is zagging, I'm all in favor of that. But 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.600 and this is where we land today for this episode. Brent, 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.320 there are some cases where the deeper you go into 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:02.160 the literature, the more that cases and the personal testimony 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:04.840 pile up. And you and I have had some cases 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.240 like this that the more the phenomenon refuses to stay 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:28.560 in the box, and that's where the WU factor begins. 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.560 I'm Brent Friedman. Have you ever wondered if there's a 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.280 secret connection between Hollywood and UFOs? 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.560 I'm Bryce Sable. You're listening to Sound, Light and Frequency. 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.280 Today we're going to venture off the beaten path and 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.680 wide headlong into the phenomenon. 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:49.080 It's called WU. Researchers often don't like to talk about it, 0:04:49.240 --> 0:05:03.679 but we do. Okay, Well, first, we've got to define 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.680 our terms when we talk about WU in terms of eufology, 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:15.040 That often refers to these strange mystical, parapsychological, spiritual, occult, symbolic, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:20.520 and consciousness based aspects of this UFO UAP mystery. And 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.320 so it includes all kinds of things that aren't flying 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.600 around in our skies looking like metal objects, such as 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:33.479 telepathy and synchronicity and remote viewing, out of body experiences, 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:41.440 apparitions orbs, time slips, prophetic dreams, poltergeist coincidences, cryptid encounters, 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.240 Hitchiker effects. We could go on and on, but all 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.320 the stuff that doesn't fit in that neat category. And 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.080 what's so interesting about what we're going to talk about 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.719 today is we've had some experiences. You've had a couple 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.640 of barn Burner experiences that we're going to get into. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.200 But there's also some movies that are all about WU. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.599 My favorite movies actually to jump on what you were 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.239 just talking about, I have my own personal theory about 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.840 the WOO and it goes like this. Most people look 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.960 at three big categories. You've got aliens, UFOs, you've got 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.560 the paranormal, and you've got the afterlife, and those are 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.680 all three different areas of interest and research and their 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:23.160 different genres. 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:24.159 In movies and in books. 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:28.080 And my contention is, having experienced a little bit of 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.240 all of that, is that it's all part of the 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:34.800 same thing, and it's all The continuity is both kind 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.839 of consciousness, which is what we bring to the table, 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.880 and the fact that, as our friend JC said, the 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.279 universe runs on sound, light and frequency. It's about energy. 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.520 We are energy beings. I've experienced that firsthand, and we 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:53.280 experience the world through our consciousness. And that means that 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:58.120 I don't believe there are discrete lines between aliens, ufo 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.880 paranormal and the afterlife, and so some of that is 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:04.200 it's hard to imagine, it's hard to explain, and I 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.839 know that there's people in each camp that would prefer 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.479 to be siloed. But I think we're talking about some 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.680 version of quantum entanglement. As you said, you read off 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.240 all of these things that are part of the phenomenon, 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:19.160 and people call it the WU factor, which is oftentimes 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.000 I've heard it used in a derogatory sense. Oh well, 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.160 that's just the WU factor, right, that's just weirdness and craziness, 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.280 high strangeness, as if to dismiss it and say this 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:29.960 is that doesn't that's not real. 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.600 It is real, and I agree totally about how people 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.240 have been concerned about it for many, many years. There 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.560 was a sense like even my old friend Stanton Friedman, right, 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.560 he was all about the nuts and bolts because he 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.680 felt that if he started talking about that kind of 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.240 stuff that we're going to be talking about here, that 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:50.520 people would. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:50.840 Tune him out. 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:56.080 I remember talking to a fellow ufologist who believe strongly 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:01.280 in these various paranormal WU things and said, yeah, but 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.720 if I start talking about that, then I won't be 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.400 taken credibly about this other stuff. So I guess what 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.520 I'm saying, and you're saying, is well, screw that. You know, 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.320 facts are facts. The fact is there is something going 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.200 on that isn't just nuts and bolts. Sometimes it is 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.240 nuts and bolts, or it looks like it's nuts and bolts, 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.560 and sometimes it's not. And then the other thing that 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.920 is clear too, and this has been reported for a 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.840 long time. Why do UFOs or flying saucagers in the 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.560 fifties look one way and now they look another way now? 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.280 And why did they look like airships in the eighteen nineties, 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.760 And why are people being abducted now but hundreds of 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.280 years ago they were abducted by fairies. Were these people 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.880 crazy or were they describing the same thing only with 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:48.960 different words. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.760 Yeah, just to be clear, were they describing what they 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.800 understood culturally at that time, what their filter of consciousness 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.200 would allow them to believe. Right, So, if you were 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:06.559 having an experience in eighteen forty, you weren't thinking about spaceships. 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:10.160 You weren't even thinking about airships. You were thinking about 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.920 something that felt more supernatural, probably because that was what 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.839 the cultural reference point was at the time. So again, 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:19.560 I don't know that it is the full explanation, but 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.000 I think it is definitely part of the equation. 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:23.600 I guess you could look at it this way. The 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:28.640 costumes change, but the structure of the encounter means SIMI 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:31.199 well said. So, for example, a lot of what happens 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.960 in these kind of WU effect things are there's a 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.280 rupture in ordinary reality to see a craft in the air. 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:40.239 But we see craft in the air, we see airplanes, 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.600 and now we see missiles and we see other things. 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.000 So to see what is a UFO that's going faster 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:51.280 than our stuff is really isn't rupturing reality. It's just like, oh, 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.920 I wonder if they're from another planet. But there's a 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.520 lot of other things that go with this distorted time, 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.600 some kind of message that goes with it, beings that 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.760 appear human or almost human, all of that stuff, strange 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.920 coincidences before or after the encounter. And I want to 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.480 get to some of the film and TV versions of 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.720 it because it's fascinating. But let's do a quick jump 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.040 through time on this thing, and let's go all the 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.079 way back to our man, HP Lovecraft, who When I 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.079 first met you, you were talking about HP Lovecraft, and honestly, 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:23.800 I didn't know that much about him. I know a 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.720 lot more now because of our association, but I would 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.360 be wrong to try to explain who he is when 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.560 you're on the show, so please take it away. 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:36.000 So HP Lovecraft is one of my personal favorite authors. 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.160 He wrote in twenties and thirties and maybe the forties, 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:43.080 but early twentieth century. He wrote science fiction, but more 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.880 from a science fiction horror, like a fantastic point of view. 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.760 And his worldview was there are things around us at 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.520 all times, and we can't see them, and when we 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.960 do see them, it will be so mind blowing that 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.959 we will probably go crazy. That was the through line 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.320 of many of his stories is people would see unspeakable, 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:08.240 unnameable things in ancient entities that were all around us, 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.480 and they would end up in a psychiatric hospital. And 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.880 in fact, I adapted a HP Lovecraft story called The 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:16.880 Case of Charles dexter Ward, which was one of the 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.560 few novels he wrote. He wrote mostly short stories. It 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.360 became a movie called The Resurrected that was directed by 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.319 Dan O'Bannon, who was the writer of Alien and Total Recall. 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.480 And I'm going to save it for another episode, but 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.720 I spent a lot of time at Dan O'Bannon's house 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.000 when we were working on that film, and going into 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.440 his house was entering the phenomenon. So put a thumbtack 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.760 in that. We'll come back to that later. But Lovecraft 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.480 had a contemporary, actually, someone that was writing fiction. So 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.800 he was writing fiction. There was a nonfiction writer named 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:49.800 Charles Fort who was someone who collected strange stories from 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.360 press around the world. And I believe his first book 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.680 was called The Book of the Damned. If I'm not 0:11:55.720 --> 0:12:00.520 mistaken and write what was at the nineteen twenty yeah, 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:05.520 And he literally was someone that just went across every 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:11.720 publication through history and found anomalous stories and collected them 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:16.160 into a huge volume that became the inspiration for several 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:20.280 more well known writers and investigators into the WU. 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.960 A couple of quick hits on both of those men. 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.600 The Lovecraft thing always struck me as interesting because right 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.800 now we are talking a lot about nhi non human intelligences, 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.680 which is very lovecraft in right, because he's basically in 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:39.080 his writings, in his short stories, primarily saying that humanity 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:45.120 exists alongside some vast non human intelligences. Yes, that we 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.720 can't possibly understand, and you mentioned ancient entities, but there's 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:54.079 this sense of forbidden knowledge and these cult transmissions and 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.360 dreams and madness and hidden dimensions. And at the end 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.520 of what makes Lovecrafts so oh fascinating, I think for 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:05.200 people is the terror, and I use the word appropriately. 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.520 There absolutely terror of discovering that reality is much larger 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.680 and less human centered than we would have thought. 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.360 I think if I look back on Lovecraft, I did 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.240 not have the word at the time, but I would 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:21.640 have said what his characters largely experience is onto logical shock. 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.880 Yeah, so Charles Fort goes at it in it. I 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.320 think Lovecraft is going at it as a writer, he's thinking, well, 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.679 what would be good to write about that will scare 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.080 their pants off people? Right? But Charles fort was a 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.360 little more ground based. As you said, He's going through 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:42.120 newspaper articles primarily, and tales that people tell, and he 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.000 just kept turning up things that you'd read it and 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.959 you'd go it was in the freaking newspaper. Yes, right. 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.920 It wasn't like he made it up like Lovecraft. He's 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.800 talking about things that are falling from the sky that 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.160 probably ought not to be falling from the sky, objects 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.640 that shouldn't exist, mysterious lights, which we have plenty of 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:06.240 right now, disappearances, bizarre weather, but also anomalous creatures, everything 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:11.240 that comes to an event that doesn't fit a preconceived model, right, 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.000 which those are the guys that are the classics, if 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.520 we will. But there are two people that have worked 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.560 in our lifetime and one of them is still alive, 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.600 and that's Jacques Valat, who is considered such a great 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:29.000 UFO researcher. But his conclusions that he's made in a 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.280 series of books all through his career do not fit 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.960 nuts and bolts. The more Valet went around the world 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.760 and asked people to tell their stories. If I was 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.960 to describe what Jacques Valat has discovered for himself, his 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.680 essential Valay idea, if you will, is that UFOs may 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.480 not represent a new phenomenon at all. We may think, oh, 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.840 we're civilized and we have technology, and so people are 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.240 coming to look at us from elsewhere, and he basically 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.600 is saying, the UFO UAP thing is to use the 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:05.160 costume metaphor, it's a new costume for an incredibly old one. 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.240 And the phenomenon that we now like to use that 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.760 word to talk about UFO's up. But all this other 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:16.120 stuff around it. He has always seemed to maintain that 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.080 it is something that is interacting with our sense of 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:20.920 myth or creating our myth. 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:21.520 Yes. 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.600 Absolutely, there was two seminal books for me that, outside 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.080 of Lovecraft, which was fiction, one of them was Passport 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:33.920 to Magonia by Sachvila, where he really dives into the folklore, 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.880 the mythology, how this has all been tied to something 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:41.120 much deeper into our culture and our psychology, getting into 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:45.120 fairies and what we believed our interactions with them were. 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.440 There's so much, as you said, structural similarity to those 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.800 experiences that were reported centuries and centuries ago to the 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:57.480 structural similarities of a modern day UFO abduction. And so 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:03.000 I find that incredibly fascinating, and his contribution to this 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:07.480 part of upology is absolutely indelible, and because I believe 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.360 he's someone that has a lot of respect, but I 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.960 think a lot of people can't quite make sense of 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:14.800 what his basic thesis is. 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.400 If you read his books over the years, he would 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.640 basically be the guy to argue in a religious age, 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:25.000 this non human intelligence, this phenomenon, this whatever it is, 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.840 is interpreted as angels and demons going back to Biblical times, 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:32.560 but that in a technological age it appears as craft 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.920 with pilots and laboratories and star maps. In essence, his 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:40.600 conclusion is the content changes to match the era, but 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:46.240 the pattern of destabilizing content and contact remains. So that's 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:48.920 been his way to look at it. But now if 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.760 you go on X and start reading about Congress, people 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:57.040 like Luna and Bobert, or in Bobert was just like, Nope, 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.840 it's angels and demons. So even as some of the 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.760 people in Congress are taking sworn testimony about craft and 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:09.440 occupants and bodies and reverse engineering, there are other there's 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:11.960 a countervailing thing going on at the same time that 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.080 goes back to what Valet was saying about angels and demons, 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.400 which you know, listen, someday we will talk even more 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.720 about Jacques Valais. But now let's bring in the guy 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:29.080 who I think is the closest analog to Charles Fort Yes, 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:30.520 which would be John Keel. 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:31.040 Yes. 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.240 And since I was the one that brought him into 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.480 our lives while we were early in the development process 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.840 of Dark Skies, and I was a little bit intimidated 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.720 by the sheer volume of UFO books you had, and 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.280 I was furiously trying to catch up and read a 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.840 bunch of the things you had on your bookshelf. And 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:49.840 then I was so thrilled to find a book that 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.320 you didn't have on your bookshelf called The Mothman Prophecies, 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.399 which was that was a book by John Keel that 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:00.399 was based on a true event. It's a nonfiction book, 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.040 but when you read it, it's hard to imagine that 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.600 this really happened. And yet, but you read enough of 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.600 his books. He has a very kind of sober, investigative 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.880 journalist approach to everything. And I remember reading that book 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.040 and I was both terrified and exhilarated. I had just 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.359 had a whole new point of view on what was 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.240 going on, mostly because it opened a bunch of doors 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.879 that I just had never really considered before. So we're 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.400 going to talk about the book a little bit and 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.959 the movie because they've made a movie out of the 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.760 Mothman prophecies, and I think we both have opinions about 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:35.960 the movie. But one thing about the book that I 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:40.719 found absolutely fascinating is just like Lovecraft, one of the 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.639 things that Kiel is positing is that there are nhi 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.439 and they take the form in ways that you can't imagine. 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.439 It could be someone calling you on the phone that 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.280 sounds like a human, but if you break it down, 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.200 it's actually a computerized voice. Doesn't make any sense. The 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.840 Mothman itself was a huge, huge kryptoid that was I 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:06.400 think eight feet tall, a flying kind of moth man, 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.719 burning red eyes that looked and sounded like a demon. 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.720 And this all was based around I think a little 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.200 more than a year of high strangeness that took place 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.840 in Point Pleasant, West Virginia, and John Keel, being a reporter, 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.280 started to hear of strange things going on, and he 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.760 started to investigate. What I loved about the book was 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:29.040 the central idea that when you start investigating, when you 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.719 put your intention and your attention onto the topic of 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.280 the phenomenon, it pulls you in and pretty soon you 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.960 find yourself inside the phenomenon, and now, rather than just 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:45.000 objectively observing events, the events start to happen to you, 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:48.600 and you start to become part of that narrative. I 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.480 think that's exactly what happened to John Keel in the 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:52.760 course of that book. 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.359 But it happened to us, which happened to us? I 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:03.239 need to unpack that story, but I will say this, 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.520 when you were admiring my book collection, I was a 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:10.000 nuts and bolt sky at the time, not completely, but 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.679 certainly not to the level of the Mothman prophecies. So 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.560 when I read this thing, I was like, wow, that 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.119 where's the UFOs in this thing? You know? And it 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.720 involves the book, which was written in seventy five. It's 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:27.439 his first person account into this investigation of a wave 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.000 of strange events that happened in nineteen sixty six, in 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:35.040 nineteen sixty seven, where people reported that large wing creature 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:38.600 the Mothman, and it ends up with a bridge collapse 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.919 that ends the book. Anyway, this is a real story, folks, 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:48.240 This really happened. Brent tells me, I need to read 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:52.239 the Mothman Prophecies. So I go buy a copy of 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.960 The Mothman Prophecies, and I'm reading it. I may be, 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.640 you know, halfway through it. And so it's in my car. 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.560 It's writing around in the back to my car because 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:02.640 I'm reading it. 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:03.360 And if I. 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:05.679 Catch a few minutes here and there, I'm gonna grab 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:07.439 it out of the car. If I'm at the car wash, 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.800 I'll read it whatever. Okay, this is during dark Skies, 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.280 So this is ninety five, ninety six, somewhere in there 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.240 where you tell me to read this thing, and I 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:19.320 am reading it, and I take my oldest son, who 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:21.840 is still a young kid at the time. I think 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:23.960 he was about ten years old, and I take him 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.639 to the movies at our local movie theater. And so 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.720 it was like a seven thirty movie or something. So 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:33.000 it got out around nine thirty, which you know, was 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:35.520 allowed him to stay up a little later, allowed me 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.119 to get to bed in time to get back to 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:38.800 Dark Skies and work early. 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:39.080 In the morning. 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:43.080 And so we're coming out after seeing this probably goofy 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:46.879 kids movie, you know, which I've seen thousands because of 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.040 having three kids. And we're walking into a dark parking 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:52.560 lot and it's not particularly well lit. There are a 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.280 couple of lights in it. I mean, it's not completely dark, 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.880 there's some lights. And as we're walking out to our car, 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:00.760 my son is by my side and we see a 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:03.720 guy at the end of the parking lot and he's 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.960 walking toward us. No big deal there, people look for 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:09.639 their cars. Although generally most people were walking out of 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:12.440 the theater. This guy is from the other side, walking 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.240 toward the theater, so he's going to intersect with us. 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:17.639 And as I get a look at him, he's wearing 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.959 a long black duster jacket, you know, almost like a 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:25.840 western duster thing. Not good, not good, and I think 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:28.240 he's got a hat on, so he doesn't quite look 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.760 like a man in black. It's not a nice suit 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:34.159 or something, but it's a duster jacket. It's down to 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.119 his past his knees, and he looks formidable and a 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:41.200 little scary. And because I thought, now this isn't quite right, 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.480 I take my son, who's sort of he's on my 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.119