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Speaker 1: Before we begin, please note that this episode contains discussions

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Speaker 1: of suicide, mental health struggles, and related topics that some

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Speaker 1: listeners may find distressing. Listener discretion is advised. If you

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Speaker 1: or someone you know is struggling, help is available. You

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Speaker 1: can call or text nine eight eight to reach the

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Speaker 1: Suicide and Crisis Lifeline for free. Brett I didn't actually

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Speaker 1: see the Friday document video photo dump coming from the

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Speaker 1: Trump disclosure movement or whatever. I didn't see that coming

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Speaker 1: until it was almost upon me.

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Speaker 2: How about yourself.

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Speaker 3: I'm actually more intrigued by two specific reactions. One was

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Speaker 3: from one of our congress people who said, Yeah, this

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Speaker 3: initial stuff is not that exciting, but there's some big,

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Speaker 3: holy crap revelations that are coming down the pipeline. And

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking, what a strange thing to say, Yeah, forget

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Speaker 3: about the stuff that you're getting on Friday, there's other

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Speaker 3: stuff down the road. What is he talking about and

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Speaker 3: why would he put it in that context?

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Speaker 2: That's number one. Number two.

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Speaker 3: If you remember, earlier in the week before the dump,

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Speaker 3: there was this story about again some congress people giving

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Speaker 3: a private briefing to a bunch of pastors, getting them

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Speaker 3: ready for the revelations that were coming down the pike,

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Speaker 3: and it provoked a bunch of content on the internet

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Speaker 3: about pastors coming out and saying that they were scared

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Speaker 3: about what was coming but wanted to be prepared and

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Speaker 3: prepare their flock. And I thought, wow, whatever is that

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Speaker 3: holy crap revelation that's coming on the pipeline. Somebody felt

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Speaker 3: it was important to go to a bunch of pastors

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Speaker 3: and give them a heads up. So this first dump

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Speaker 3: of documents not that exciting. Like you said, we've seen

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Speaker 3: and heard a lot about it, but what's to come,

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Speaker 3: I can't wait.

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Speaker 1: We'll see, And of course people are talking about the

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Speaker 1: fact that these will be coming out regularly. Listen to

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Speaker 1: my friends who don't know a lot about this. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want to put down what has happened. It may

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Speaker 1: not be full of the greatest content that you've ever

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Speaker 1: seen on this topic, but at least there's a process

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Speaker 1: underway that hasn't quite ever been in existence like this.

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Speaker 1: So that's somewhat hopeful, and I do enjoy that. But

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Speaker 1: my emotional reaction to it, with this thirty years that

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Speaker 1: I have and you have on this topic, is really

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Speaker 1: I mean, okay, I am one hundred percent sure, one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent sure that the US government and probably governments

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Speaker 1: around the world have HD quality video and HD quality photos,

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Speaker 1: and they have all the supporting data that supports those

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Speaker 1: videos as being real, and that some of those things

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Speaker 1: would be just shocking as hell to see, For example,

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Speaker 1: an anomalous craft inn HD quality that clearly doesn't look

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Speaker 1: like anything that you've ever seen before and is just

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Speaker 1: feed away from an F eighteen aircraft or something.

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Speaker 3: Don't you feel though that this is just more slow drip, right?

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Speaker 3: We've been in this slow drip mode for deck aids Now,

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Speaker 3: and now that we're actually into disclosure, it's just more

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Speaker 3: slow drip. When we talked about this episode, we said,

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Speaker 3: let's zig where everyone else is zagging this right, And

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Speaker 3: I think that going back to that quote about there's

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Speaker 3: holy crap stuff coming, what I believe is coming is

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Speaker 3: going to be the more unsettling aspects of disclosure, and

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Speaker 3: I think we're going to go deep into the phenomenon.

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Speaker 3: So I think this episode for us is a chance

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Speaker 3: to look ahead at to some of the things that

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Speaker 3: we think may be coming down the pipeline.

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Speaker 1: I just want to reiterate what you just said or

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Speaker 1: underline it, because the truth of the matter is, there

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Speaker 1: are hundreds of UFO podcasts out there and they're all

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Speaker 1: over this topic. And the one thing that has differentiated Sound,

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Speaker 1: Light and Frequency is that we have a different lens

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Speaker 1: that we look at this thing through, which has been

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Speaker 1: film and TV. So when you say zig when everyone

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Speaker 1: else is zagging, I'm all in favor of that. But

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Speaker 1: and this is where we land today for this episode. Brent,

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Speaker 1: there are some cases where the deeper you go into

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Speaker 1: the literature, the more that cases and the personal testimony

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Speaker 1: pile up. And you and I have had some cases

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Speaker 1: like this that the more the phenomenon refuses to stay

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Speaker 1: in the box, and that's where the WU factor begins.

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Speaker 3: I'm Brent Friedman. Have you ever wondered if there's a

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Speaker 3: secret connection between Hollywood and UFOs?

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Speaker 1: I'm Bryce Sable. You're listening to Sound, Light and Frequency.

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Speaker 3: Today we're going to venture off the beaten path and

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Speaker 3: wide headlong into the phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: It's called WU. Researchers often don't like to talk about it,

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Speaker 1: but we do. Okay, Well, first, we've got to define

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Speaker 1: our terms when we talk about WU in terms of eufology,

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Speaker 1: That often refers to these strange mystical, parapsychological, spiritual, occult, symbolic,

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Speaker 1: and consciousness based aspects of this UFO UAP mystery. And

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Speaker 1: so it includes all kinds of things that aren't flying

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Speaker 1: around in our skies looking like metal objects, such as

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Speaker 1: telepathy and synchronicity and remote viewing, out of body experiences,

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Speaker 1: apparitions orbs, time slips, prophetic dreams, poltergeist coincidences, cryptid encounters,

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Speaker 1: Hitchiker effects. We could go on and on, but all

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Speaker 1: the stuff that doesn't fit in that neat category. And

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Speaker 1: what's so interesting about what we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: today is we've had some experiences. You've had a couple

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Speaker 1: of barn Burner experiences that we're going to get into.

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Speaker 1: But there's also some movies that are all about WU.

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Speaker 3: My favorite movies actually to jump on what you were

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Speaker 3: just talking about, I have my own personal theory about

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Speaker 3: the WOO and it goes like this. Most people look

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Speaker 3: at three big categories. You've got aliens, UFOs, you've got

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Speaker 3: the paranormal, and you've got the afterlife, and those are

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Speaker 3: all three different areas of interest and research and their

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Speaker 3: different genres.

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Speaker 1: In movies and in books.

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Speaker 3: And my contention is, having experienced a little bit of

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Speaker 3: all of that, is that it's all part of the

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Speaker 3: same thing, and it's all The continuity is both kind

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Speaker 3: of consciousness, which is what we bring to the table,

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Speaker 3: and the fact that, as our friend JC said, the

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Speaker 3: universe runs on sound, light and frequency. It's about energy.

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Speaker 3: We are energy beings. I've experienced that firsthand, and we

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Speaker 3: experience the world through our consciousness. And that means that

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Speaker 3: I don't believe there are discrete lines between aliens, ufo

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Speaker 3: paranormal and the afterlife, and so some of that is

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Speaker 3: it's hard to imagine, it's hard to explain, and I

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Speaker 3: know that there's people in each camp that would prefer

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Speaker 3: to be siloed. But I think we're talking about some

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Speaker 3: version of quantum entanglement. As you said, you read off

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Speaker 3: all of these things that are part of the phenomenon,

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Speaker 3: and people call it the WU factor, which is oftentimes

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Speaker 3: I've heard it used in a derogatory sense. Oh well,

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Speaker 3: that's just the WU factor, right, that's just weirdness and craziness,

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Speaker 3: high strangeness, as if to dismiss it and say this

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Speaker 3: is that doesn't that's not real.

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Speaker 1: It is real, and I agree totally about how people

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Speaker 1: have been concerned about it for many, many years. There

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Speaker 1: was a sense like even my old friend Stanton Friedman, right,

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Speaker 1: he was all about the nuts and bolts because he

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Speaker 1: felt that if he started talking about that kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff that we're going to be talking about here, that

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Speaker 1: people would.

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Speaker 2: Tune him out.

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Speaker 1: I remember talking to a fellow ufologist who believe strongly

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Speaker 1: in these various paranormal WU things and said, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: if I start talking about that, then I won't be

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Speaker 1: taken credibly about this other stuff. So I guess what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, and you're saying, is well, screw that. You know,

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Speaker 1: facts are facts. The fact is there is something going

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Speaker 1: on that isn't just nuts and bolts. Sometimes it is

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Speaker 1: nuts and bolts, or it looks like it's nuts and bolts,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it's not. And then the other thing that

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Speaker 1: is clear too, and this has been reported for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Why do UFOs or flying saucagers in the

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Speaker 1: fifties look one way and now they look another way now?

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Speaker 1: And why did they look like airships in the eighteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: And why are people being abducted now but hundreds of

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Speaker 1: years ago they were abducted by fairies. Were these people

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Speaker 1: crazy or were they describing the same thing only with

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Speaker 1: different words.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just to be clear, were they describing what they

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Speaker 3: understood culturally at that time, what their filter of consciousness

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Speaker 3: would allow them to believe. Right, So, if you were

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Speaker 3: having an experience in eighteen forty, you weren't thinking about spaceships.

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Speaker 3: You weren't even thinking about airships. You were thinking about

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Speaker 3: something that felt more supernatural, probably because that was what

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Speaker 3: the cultural reference point was at the time. So again,

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Speaker 3: I don't know that it is the full explanation, but

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Speaker 3: I think it is definitely part of the equation.

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Speaker 1: I guess you could look at it this way. The

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Speaker 1: costumes change, but the structure of the encounter means SIMI

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Speaker 1: well said. So, for example, a lot of what happens

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Speaker 1: in these kind of WU effect things are there's a

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Speaker 1: rupture in ordinary reality to see a craft in the air.

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Speaker 1: But we see craft in the air, we see airplanes,

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Speaker 1: and now we see missiles and we see other things.

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Speaker 1: So to see what is a UFO that's going faster

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Speaker 1: than our stuff is really isn't rupturing reality. It's just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if they're from another planet. But there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of other things that go with this distorted time,

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Speaker 1: some kind of message that goes with it, beings that

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Speaker 1: appear human or almost human, all of that stuff, strange

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Speaker 1: coincidences before or after the encounter. And I want to

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Speaker 1: get to some of the film and TV versions of

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Speaker 1: it because it's fascinating. But let's do a quick jump

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Speaker 1: through time on this thing, and let's go all the

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Speaker 1: way back to our man, HP Lovecraft, who When I

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Speaker 1: first met you, you were talking about HP Lovecraft, and honestly,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that much about him. I know a

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Speaker 1: lot more now because of our association, but I would

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Speaker 1: be wrong to try to explain who he is when

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Speaker 1: you're on the show, so please take it away.

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Speaker 3: So HP Lovecraft is one of my personal favorite authors.

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Speaker 3: He wrote in twenties and thirties and maybe the forties,

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Speaker 3: but early twentieth century. He wrote science fiction, but more

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Speaker 3: from a science fiction horror, like a fantastic point of view.

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Speaker 3: And his worldview was there are things around us at

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Speaker 3: all times, and we can't see them, and when we

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Speaker 3: do see them, it will be so mind blowing that

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Speaker 3: we will probably go crazy. That was the through line

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Speaker 3: of many of his stories is people would see unspeakable,

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Speaker 3: unnameable things in ancient entities that were all around us,

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Speaker 3: and they would end up in a psychiatric hospital. And

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Speaker 3: in fact, I adapted a HP Lovecraft story called The

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Speaker 3: Case of Charles dexter Ward, which was one of the

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Speaker 3: few novels he wrote. He wrote mostly short stories. It

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Speaker 3: became a movie called The Resurrected that was directed by

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Speaker 3: Dan O'Bannon, who was the writer of Alien and Total Recall.

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Speaker 3: And I'm going to save it for another episode, but

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Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time at Dan O'Bannon's house

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Speaker 3: when we were working on that film, and going into

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Speaker 3: his house was entering the phenomenon. So put a thumbtack

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Speaker 3: in that. We'll come back to that later. But Lovecraft

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Speaker 3: had a contemporary, actually, someone that was writing fiction. So

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Speaker 3: he was writing fiction. There was a nonfiction writer named

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Speaker 3: Charles Fort who was someone who collected strange stories from

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Speaker 3: press around the world. And I believe his first book

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Speaker 3: was called The Book of the Damned. If I'm not

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Speaker 3: mistaken and write what was at the nineteen twenty yeah,

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Speaker 3: And he literally was someone that just went across every

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Speaker 3: publication through history and found anomalous stories and collected them

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Speaker 3: into a huge volume that became the inspiration for several

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Speaker 3: more well known writers and investigators into the WU.

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Speaker 1: A couple of quick hits on both of those men.

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Speaker 1: The Lovecraft thing always struck me as interesting because right

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Speaker 1: now we are talking a lot about nhi non human intelligences,

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Speaker 1: which is very lovecraft in right, because he's basically in

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Speaker 1: his writings, in his short stories, primarily saying that humanity

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Speaker 1: exists alongside some vast non human intelligences. Yes, that we

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Speaker 1: can't possibly understand, and you mentioned ancient entities, but there's

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Speaker 1: this sense of forbidden knowledge and these cult transmissions and

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Speaker 1: dreams and madness and hidden dimensions. And at the end

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Speaker 1: of what makes Lovecrafts so oh fascinating, I think for

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Speaker 1: people is the terror, and I use the word appropriately.

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Speaker 1: There absolutely terror of discovering that reality is much larger

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Speaker 1: and less human centered than we would have thought.

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Speaker 3: I think if I look back on Lovecraft, I did

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Speaker 3: not have the word at the time, but I would

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Speaker 3: have said what his characters largely experience is onto logical shock.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so Charles Fort goes at it in it. I

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Speaker 1: think Lovecraft is going at it as a writer, he's thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: what would be good to write about that will scare

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Speaker 1: their pants off people? Right? But Charles fort was a

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Speaker 1: little more ground based. As you said, He's going through

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Speaker 1: newspaper articles primarily, and tales that people tell, and he

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Speaker 1: just kept turning up things that you'd read it and

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Speaker 1: you'd go it was in the freaking newspaper. Yes, right.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like he made it up like Lovecraft. He's

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Speaker 1: talking about things that are falling from the sky that

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Speaker 1: probably ought not to be falling from the sky, objects

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Speaker 1: that shouldn't exist, mysterious lights, which we have plenty of

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Speaker 1: right now, disappearances, bizarre weather, but also anomalous creatures, everything

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Speaker 1: that comes to an event that doesn't fit a preconceived model, right,

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Speaker 1: which those are the guys that are the classics, if

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Speaker 1: we will. But there are two people that have worked

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Speaker 1: in our lifetime and one of them is still alive,

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Speaker 1: and that's Jacques Valat, who is considered such a great

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Speaker 1: UFO researcher. But his conclusions that he's made in a

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Speaker 1: series of books all through his career do not fit

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Speaker 1: nuts and bolts. The more Valet went around the world

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Speaker 1: and asked people to tell their stories. If I was

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Speaker 1: to describe what Jacques Valat has discovered for himself, his

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Speaker 1: essential Valay idea, if you will, is that UFOs may

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Speaker 1: not represent a new phenomenon at all. We may think, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're civilized and we have technology, and so people are

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Speaker 1: coming to look at us from elsewhere, and he basically

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Speaker 1: is saying, the UFO UAP thing is to use the

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Speaker 1: costume metaphor, it's a new costume for an incredibly old one.

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Speaker 1: And the phenomenon that we now like to use that

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Speaker 1: word to talk about UFO's up. But all this other

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Speaker 1: stuff around it. He has always seemed to maintain that

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Speaker 1: it is something that is interacting with our sense of

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Speaker 1: myth or creating our myth.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, there was two seminal books for me that, outside

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Speaker 3: of Lovecraft, which was fiction, one of them was Passport

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Speaker 3: to Magonia by Sachvila, where he really dives into the folklore,

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Speaker 3: the mythology, how this has all been tied to something

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Speaker 3: much deeper into our culture and our psychology, getting into

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Speaker 3: fairies and what we believed our interactions with them were.

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Speaker 3: There's so much, as you said, structural similarity to those

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Speaker 3: experiences that were reported centuries and centuries ago to the

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Speaker 3: structural similarities of a modern day UFO abduction. And so

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Speaker 3: I find that incredibly fascinating, and his contribution to this

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Speaker 3: part of upology is absolutely indelible, and because I believe

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Speaker 3: he's someone that has a lot of respect, but I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of people can't quite make sense of

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Speaker 3: what his basic thesis is.

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Speaker 1: If you read his books over the years, he would

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Speaker 1: basically be the guy to argue in a religious age,

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Speaker 1: this non human intelligence, this phenomenon, this whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: is interpreted as angels and demons going back to Biblical times,

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Speaker 1: but that in a technological age it appears as craft

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Speaker 1: with pilots and laboratories and star maps. In essence, his

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Speaker 1: conclusion is the content changes to match the era, but

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Speaker 1: the pattern of destabilizing content and contact remains. So that's

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Speaker 1: been his way to look at it. But now if

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Speaker 1: you go on X and start reading about Congress, people

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Speaker 1: like Luna and Bobert, or in Bobert was just like, Nope,

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Speaker 1: it's angels and demons. So even as some of the

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Speaker 1: people in Congress are taking sworn testimony about craft and

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Speaker 1: occupants and bodies and reverse engineering, there are other there's

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Speaker 1: a countervailing thing going on at the same time that

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Speaker 1: goes back to what Valet was saying about angels and demons,

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Speaker 1: which you know, listen, someday we will talk even more

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Speaker 1: about Jacques Valais. But now let's bring in the guy

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Speaker 1: who I think is the closest analog to Charles Fort Yes,

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Speaker 1: which would be John Keel.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: And since I was the one that brought him into

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Speaker 3: our lives while we were early in the development process

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Speaker 3: of Dark Skies, and I was a little bit intimidated

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Speaker 3: by the sheer volume of UFO books you had, and

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Speaker 3: I was furiously trying to catch up and read a

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Speaker 3: bunch of the things you had on your bookshelf. And

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Speaker 3: then I was so thrilled to find a book that

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Speaker 3: you didn't have on your bookshelf called The Mothman Prophecies,

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Speaker 3: which was that was a book by John Keel that

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Speaker 3: was based on a true event. It's a nonfiction book,

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Speaker 3: but when you read it, it's hard to imagine that

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Speaker 3: this really happened. And yet, but you read enough of

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Speaker 3: his books. He has a very kind of sober, investigative

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Speaker 3: journalist approach to everything. And I remember reading that book

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Speaker 3: and I was both terrified and exhilarated. I had just

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Speaker 3: had a whole new point of view on what was

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Speaker 3: going on, mostly because it opened a bunch of doors

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Speaker 3: that I just had never really considered before. So we're

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Speaker 3: going to talk about the book a little bit and

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Speaker 3: the movie because they've made a movie out of the

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Speaker 3: Mothman prophecies, and I think we both have opinions about

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Speaker 3: the movie. But one thing about the book that I

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Speaker 3: found absolutely fascinating is just like Lovecraft, one of the

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Speaker 3: things that Kiel is positing is that there are nhi

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Speaker 3: and they take the form in ways that you can't imagine.

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Speaker 3: It could be someone calling you on the phone that

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Speaker 3: sounds like a human, but if you break it down,

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Speaker 3: it's actually a computerized voice. Doesn't make any sense. The

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Speaker 3: Mothman itself was a huge, huge kryptoid that was I

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Speaker 3: think eight feet tall, a flying kind of moth man,

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Speaker 3: burning red eyes that looked and sounded like a demon.

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Speaker 3: And this all was based around I think a little

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Speaker 3: more than a year of high strangeness that took place

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Speaker 3: in Point Pleasant, West Virginia, and John Keel, being a reporter,

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Speaker 3: started to hear of strange things going on, and he

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Speaker 3: started to investigate. What I loved about the book was

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Speaker 3: the central idea that when you start investigating, when you

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Speaker 3: put your intention and your attention onto the topic of

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Speaker 3: the phenomenon, it pulls you in and pretty soon you

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Speaker 3: find yourself inside the phenomenon, and now, rather than just

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Speaker 3: objectively observing events, the events start to happen to you,

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Speaker 3: and you start to become part of that narrative. I

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Speaker 3: think that's exactly what happened to John Keel in the

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Speaker 3: course of that book.

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Speaker 1: But it happened to us, which happened to us? I

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Speaker 1: need to unpack that story, but I will say this,

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Speaker 1: when you were admiring my book collection, I was a

348
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Speaker 1: nuts and bolt sky at the time, not completely, but

349
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Speaker 1: certainly not to the level of the Mothman prophecies. So

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Speaker 1: when I read this thing, I was like, wow, that

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Speaker 1: where's the UFOs in this thing? You know? And it

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00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: involves the book, which was written in seventy five. It's

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Speaker 1: his first person account into this investigation of a wave

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Speaker 1: of strange events that happened in nineteen sixty six, in

355
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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, where people reported that large wing creature

356
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Speaker 1: the Mothman, and it ends up with a bridge collapse

357
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,919
Speaker 1: that ends the book. Anyway, this is a real story, folks,

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Speaker 1: This really happened. Brent tells me, I need to read

359
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Speaker 1: the Mothman Prophecies. So I go buy a copy of

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00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 1: The Mothman Prophecies, and I'm reading it. I may be,

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00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 1: you know, halfway through it. And so it's in my car.

362
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: It's writing around in the back to my car because

363
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Speaker 1: I'm reading it.

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Speaker 2: And if I.

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Speaker 1: Catch a few minutes here and there, I'm gonna grab

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Speaker 1: it out of the car. If I'm at the car wash,

367
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 1: I'll read it whatever. Okay, this is during dark Skies,

368
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Speaker 1: So this is ninety five, ninety six, somewhere in there

369
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Speaker 1: where you tell me to read this thing, and I

370
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Speaker 1: am reading it, and I take my oldest son, who

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Speaker 1: is still a young kid at the time. I think

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Speaker 1: he was about ten years old, and I take him

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Speaker 1: to the movies at our local movie theater. And so

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Speaker 1: it was like a seven thirty movie or something. So

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Speaker 1: it got out around nine thirty, which you know, was

376
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Speaker 1: allowed him to stay up a little later, allowed me

377
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Speaker 1: to get to bed in time to get back to

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Speaker 1: Dark Skies and work early.

379
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Speaker 2: In the morning.

380
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Speaker 1: And so we're coming out after seeing this probably goofy

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Speaker 1: kids movie, you know, which I've seen thousands because of

382
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Speaker 1: having three kids. And we're walking into a dark parking

383
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Speaker 1: lot and it's not particularly well lit. There are a

384
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Speaker 1: couple of lights in it. I mean, it's not completely dark,

385
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Speaker 1: there's some lights. And as we're walking out to our car,

386
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: my son is by my side and we see a

387
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Speaker 1: guy at the end of the parking lot and he's

388
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Speaker 1: walking toward us. No big deal there, people look for

389
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Speaker 1: their cars. Although generally most people were walking out of

390
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: the theater. This guy is from the other side, walking

391
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Speaker 1: toward the theater, so he's going to intersect with us.

392
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Speaker 1: And as I get a look at him, he's wearing

393
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Speaker 1: a long black duster jacket, you know, almost like a

394
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Speaker 1: western duster thing. Not good, not good, and I think

395
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: he's got a hat on, so he doesn't quite look

396
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: like a man in black. It's not a nice suit

397
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: or something, but it's a duster jacket. It's down to

398
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: his past his knees, and he looks formidable and a

399
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: little scary. And because I thought, now this isn't quite right,

400
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: I take my son, who's sort of he's on my

401
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 1: right side, so he's going to intersect with this guy,

402
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: and our car is on the other side. So I

403
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 1: moved my son Jonathan over to this side and I

404
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: said to him, let's just go to our car. Don't

405
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 1: make eye contact, right, This is just caution that you

406
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: have in a big city.

407
00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 2: Of course, you're a parent.

408
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,239
Speaker 1: At him, because then maybe he'll talk to us. And

409
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: this guy does not look like someone we need to

410
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: be talking to it this particular moment. So my son says, okay,

411
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: and he's looking down. But we're walking to the car,

412
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,479
Speaker 1: and now this guy is and me are intersecting, and

413
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 1: as I look over at him, he really looks menacing

414
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: in his own way. But this is the thing, and

415
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: it's absolutely the truth. There's no embellishment here whatsoever. As

416
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 1: the guy passes me, I realize he's holding a book,

417
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: and the book is the mom Man Prophecies.

418
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: Now, let me just ask you one question.

419
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 3: Before I had even brought this book to your attention,

420
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 3: had you even heard of it before?

421
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: No? Okay, I don't never hear maybe, but I don't

422
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: think so.

423
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 3: Okay, so you've probably never even heard of it. I

424
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 3: give you the book, you start to read it, and

425
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 3: now in the middle of a parking lot in Agora Hills.

426
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 3: You see a guy and he's carrying the exact book

427
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 3: I asked you to read and that you have in

428
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 3: your car and steal this copy out of your car

429
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 3: that's still in Okay.

430
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And let's face it, one of the things that

431
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: has come up on this topic, Brent, which people debate

432
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: all the time, which is does investigating the phenomenon cause

433
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: the phenomenon to see you and interact with you? And

434
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: this is one of the things that the people who

435
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: have investigated Skinwalker Ranch are always talking about because there

436
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: is a thing that Skinwalker has noticed which is called

437
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: the hitchhiker effect. Yep. So if orbs are following you

438
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: at Skinwalker Ranch and you fly across the United States

439
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: to your home, the orbs are still following you, and

440
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: you go into your house, and now the orbs are

441
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: following your wife and kids. Yes, right, that kind of thing, absolutely,

442
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: And I think most people hear that and they think, oh,

443
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,479
Speaker 1: this is just the WU, this is high strangeness, this

444
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: is the paranormal, this is I don't believe any of it.

445
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,959
Speaker 1: But I think if you step over onto the science

446
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: side of the fence, I think you can explain that

447
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: through quantum and tame. Yeah right, we don't need to

448
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: go deep on that, but I think that's partly the explanation.

449
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: But going back to this book and the effect of.

450
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 3: This book, I had actually over the years recommended it

451
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 3: to several other friends. And not everyone has had strange experiences.

452
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 3: But you were not the only one that had a

453
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 3: strange experience. Other people noticed strange things like that, and

454
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 3: I did actually have one other friend where the exact

455
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 3: same thing happened. They had never heard of the book.

456
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 3: They went into a coffee shop, they started to read it,

457
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 3: and across the way in the coffee shop was someone

458
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 3: else reading the book.

459
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: I have never heard this story from you. Wow.

460
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, So you could say, oh, that's just a coincidence.

461
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 3: It's a popular book. It actually wasn't that popular when

462
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 3: I found it. It was an obscure thing. It certainly

463
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 3: had not been made into a movie yet.

464
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: Which is why it was from nineteen seventy five, and

465
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: when this is happening to us, it's twenty one years later.

466
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: So no, it wasn't a popular book at that time.

467
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: Right now, let's talk about the movie, because there was

468
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 3: a movie that came out that was an odd choice

469
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 3: in casting, which was Richard Gear plays John Keel and

470
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 3: you know what a.

471
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: Different name, John Ryan in the movie.

472
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 3: Yes, when I heard they were making a movie out

473
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 3: of it, you know, sometimes you have your favorite book

474
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: and they oh, we're going to make a movie out

475
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: of it, and you go, oh, no, you're going to

476
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 3: ruin it, Like, how would you make a movie out

477
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 3: of this? But I was so excited that I thought, no,

478
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 3: you know what, I'm going to be optimistic, and I

479
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 3: think there's some great things in the movie, but there's

480
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 3: a couple of things that I felt the movie didn't

481
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: do well or did not do the book justice. So

482
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 3: before we get into my point of view, let me

483
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:35,719
Speaker 3: hear your point of view.

484
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: Oh listen. I think there are few cases where a

485
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: book and its movie are so divergent. There are cases

486
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: where books have been radically reinterpreted, but not as much

487
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: as this one, because the thing is structurally the book

488
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: The Mothman Prophecies by John Keel is sort of about escalation.

489
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,360
Speaker 1: These sightings be starred as a local weirdness. Then they

490
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: become an epidemic of anomalous experience. People start gathering in

491
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: locations to see them. And as Keel tells the thing,

492
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: because he is a guy that he in the same

493
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: way we use movies as portals into larger discussions. That's

494
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: what he does in his book. So he's covering this

495
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: bridge disaster that happened on the Ohio River in nineteen

496
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: sixty seven, but he's also covering the Mothman thing and

497
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: all of that, and he's constantly using that to ask

498
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: whether the phenomenon is physical or psychic, or symbolic or

499
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: deceptive or all of these things at the same time. Okay,

500
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: so he's got a mind expanding book on his hands. Here.

501
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: Part of the reason you recommend it it is it'll

502
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: blow your mind. Yeah, that's probably what you told me

503
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: in words like it. Just read it. It'll expand your consciousness.

504
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: So that's why I was reading it. Now, what's I

505
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 1: found so bizarre about the film is there's no Mothman.

506
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's well, it's a weird point of view right

507
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 3: where they go to kind of the point of view

508
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: of something flying. And what I found too, is that

509
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 3: they didn't capture the high strangeness as much. They kept

510
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 3: it more around the mothman or the idea of a mothman.

511
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 3: But in the book they had men in black in it,

512
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 3: they had strange ambulances, they had strange voices, they had

513
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 3: much more kind of hauntings and things that were paranormal.

514
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 3: And it brought up this idea which, as you referenced

515
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: Skinwalker Ranch, is this was all happening in a little

516
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: town in Virginia Point Pleasant, or was West Virginia right,

517
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 3: West West Virginia right, And so this idea of convergence

518
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: is super important, where everything becomes localized and there's no

519
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 3: explanation for it. You know, why was it all happening

520
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 3: there in this little town? They never explain it. Why

521
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 3: is it all happening on Skinwalker Ranch? There's some Indian

522
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: lore around the place, but there's no scientific explanation for why.

523
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 3: It's a convergent point of a high strangeness. So amidst

524
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,239
Speaker 3: all of this high strangeness, one of the things that

525
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 3: I found so fast about the book was it all

526
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 3: happened simply because there was an investigative journalist who was

527
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 3: curious and wanted to know more. In the movie, they

528
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 3: bring in a whole subplot about the lead character's dead wife,

529
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 3: and I know why they did it. We both know

530
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: why like that makes it more compelling. You can relate

531
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 3: to this character and he's feels like he's getting messages

532
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: from his dead wife, and it's all about ultimately, it's

533
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 3: a story about him letting go, you know, to some

534
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 3: degree of being haunted by his dead wife. Where I

535
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: felt that diminished the movie and to a degree the book.

536
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 3: The source material is that in the book it wasn't

537
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: about that. It was simply about putting focus and attention

538
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,479
Speaker 3: on this strangeness and becoming immersed in it. And there

539
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 3: was a key point for me where the movie lost me,

540
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 3: and that was at about the eighty eighty five minute marks.

541
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 3: So we're towards the end of the movie. The character

542
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 3: gets rid of all of his notes and his note everything.

543
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 3: He gets it out of his life, right, but all

544
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 3: of the strain continues because why he hasn't let go

545
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 3: of his wife yet. In the book, the whole point

546
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: of the book was the only way for John Keel

547
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 3: to put all of this strangeness behind him was to

548
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 3: get rid of all of the work, over a year's

549
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 3: worth of work and reportings and recordings, and burn it

550
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 3: and get rid of it and throw it away. And

551
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: once he did that his life slowly returns to normal,

552
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 3: and to me, that's a perfect microcosm of how the

553
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 3: phenomenon works. You have to literally close that door physically

554
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 3: and mentally to have any hope of escaping it.

555
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: I find that story riveting, though, about burning your work,

556
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: because you and I have already had this conversation on

557
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: the show where part of the reason we had the

558
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: detailed Dark Sky's timeline that we have is because I'm

559
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: a collector of the shit that comes from doing a

560
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: TV series. I've got most of it, and you were

561
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: a giver away of stuff, so you have less of it.

562
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: And I will say there have been a couple of

563
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: time times in my career since the Dark Sky's days

564
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: where I have been tempted to just say, you know what.

565
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if paying attention to this UFO issue

566
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: is attracting weird stuff to my life, but just in case,

567
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: what if I get rid of everything just like he did?

568
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: And I've never brought myself to do it, so I

569
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,719
Speaker 1: guess I'm still stuck with it. The writer of the

570
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: movie read the Mothman Prophecies twenty times, which is about

571
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: eighteen times more than I've read it, so you can't

572
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: say that he threw the book out. Now, he was

573
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: obsessed with the book and trying to find the essence

574
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: of the book. But there aren't people going out to

575
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: watch the Mothman in the movie. To the best of

576
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: my knowledge, I don't recall that they're doing that, right,

577
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: But what does happen? I think his car breaks down

578
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: and he goes to this guy's house, a guy named

579
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: Gordon Smallwood, who reacts as if he has already been

580
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: to his house previous nights. Yes, now that's weird and strange,

581
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: and I thought that was kind of an intriguing thing.

582
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: Really pay it off, ever, though, I mean, it's just

583
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: like a lot of anomalous behavior. It's like, well, that

584
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: was weird. I wonder what the explanation is. And there

585
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: are things like this Gordon Smallwood, who says you were

586
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: here the last few days, claims that he's been hearing

587
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: voices from a being named Indrid Cold. Love that name

588
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: Indrid Cold. And so now our main character, John Klein

589
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 1: aka John Keel starts receiving these phone calls from Cold,

590
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: who knows all these facts about his private life that

591
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: he wouldn't ordinarily have. And there's things in it that

592
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,719
Speaker 1: are just strange, Like he hears the phrase wake up

593
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: number thirty seven. Yes, remember that. So I'm not going

594
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: to spoil the ending because I think some people may

595
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: want to see that. But what they've done in the

596
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: film is turned the bridge disaster into the big Act

597
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: three thing.

598
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 3: I do think you should watch the movie, But what

599
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 3: I would do is watch the movie, then read the book,

600
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 3: and the book will resonate in a different way you

601
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: want to feel it, Yeah, so that's that would be

602
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 3: the order of preference.

603
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: I think you're right.

604
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: Then it means that people could accept the film for

605
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: what it is, rather than every time I've seen the film,

606
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: I go, that's what and I have to say, it's

607
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: not a terrible film.

608
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: No, it's just compared to what my expectations for it were.

609
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 3: That's where I think.

610
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: That don't We've been going on and on, and honestly,

611
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: we must get to a couple of your stories here,

612
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: because they're the ones that I think, Look, WU is

613
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: one thing when it's happening to somebody else, right, But

614
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: when I saw that guy with the book that was

615
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: happening to me, it didn't freak my son out because

616
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: he didn't read the book, you know what it mean.

617
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: He didn't have any context for it. Yeah, right, but

618
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: it freaked me out, and I remember telling you the

619
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: next day and you were freaked out. We're like, how

620
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: could that be happening? So fire away when ready, my friend.

621
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 3: Yes, let me segue into the first set of stories

622
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 3: that I'm going to tell by putting a bow on

623
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 3: the Mothman prophecies. Of the big takeaways for me was

624
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 3: not just the high strangeness, but also the nature of

625
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 3: the Nhi, which is that they were tricksters. They often

626
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 3: seem to enjoy sending you down a dead end or

627
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 3: into a dark alley, or of sending you off on

628
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 3: a wild goose chase and then mocking you. And so

629
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 3: that I think is fascinating because it raises the question,

630
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 3: if these are aliens, why are they just here to

631
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 3: be amused by humans?

632
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: Right?

633
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 3: If they're angels, then well they're being kind of mean,

634
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,479
Speaker 3: but it's hard to even call it demonic. It's more

635
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 3: just that they're tricksters, and that is, you know, something

636
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 3: that Jacques Valet touches on extensively in his writings about

637
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 3: going back into the lore of the tricksters and the

638
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 3: fairies right at any rate, let me get into something

639
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 3: that kind of sets the table for a few things

640
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 3: that I'm going to share. The first is that, as

641
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: I mentioned early on in one of our episodes, I

642
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 3: have been an experiencer since pretty much the age of five,

643
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: and starting at age five up until I was around forty.

644
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 3: Amongst many other things, there has been a continuing line

645
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 3: that has happened to me that is beyond explanation, and

646
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: that is I have seen six people die in horrible ways.

647
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 3: We're talking final destination ways, and they were all strangers,

648
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 3: and they all happened right near me. And I've never

649
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 3: worked in a hospital. I was not in the military,

650
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 3: I was not a paramedic. I had no reason to

651
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 3: be in a place where I would experience six different

652
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: horrific deaths.

653
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: But I was.

654
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 3: And so then you have to ask, well, why why

655
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 3: would that happen? I don't know if I have the answer.

656
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 3: I have a theory.

657
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: I'm assuming you have dwelt on this quite a while.

658
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: Yes, this is something I come back to over and

659
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 3: over again. I'm not going to go in why though,

660
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 3: Brent give us I'd love the little meat on those bones.

661
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 3: What are these in short. What are these six? I'm

662
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 3: going to touch on a couple of those. The first

663
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 3: one happened when I was five years old with my father.

664
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 3: We were driving in the Bay Area, coming down a

665
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: very steep hill called Marin Boulevard, and we saw there

666
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: was a woman on a motorcycle in front of us,

667
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 3: and we saw her get into an accident and she

668
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 3: was beheaded and my dad slammed on the brakes and

669
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 3: I literally saw her head roll out into the street.

670
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 3: I'm five years old. Being five years old, my first

671
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 3: thought was, how are they going to put it back on?

672
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 3: Like I It didn't. It struck me as very surreal.

673
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 3: I remember my dad like turned my head and said,

674
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 3: don't look, and he jumped out of the car went

675
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 3: over to try and help, and of course my head

676
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 3: was on a swovel and that's all I did was

677
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 3: look and just take it all in. So in that one,

678
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 3: I don't it's hard to process like I. You know,

679
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 3: what do you make of that? Skip ahead a few

680
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 3: years now, I'm a teenager. I'm walking down Telegraph Avenue

681
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 3: in Berkeley, right on the cal campus or adjacent to it,

682
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 3: and I'm with a girl on my first date with her,

683
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 3: and it's a Sunday evening and we are going there,

684
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: I'm not proud to say, because we were seventeen years

685
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: old and there was a pizza place that would serve

686
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 3: you beer if you looked close to twenty one, right,

687
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 3: So this was our destiny.

688
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 2: You plan, that was my plan.

689
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 3: And as we're walking, we're talking and everything's great, and

690
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 3: our hands kind of brush and suddenly I'm holding this

691
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 3: girl's hand, first date, and everything is right in the

692
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 3: world until there's a whoosh, like there's a there's motion

693
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 3: in front of me. I can't even process. It happens

694
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 3: so fast and the most horrific noise I've ever heard

695
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 3: in my life. And while I'm trying to make sense

696
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 3: of it, my arm is yanked backwards and the girl

697
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 3: is holding onto my hand as she's running away, and

698
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: I let go of her and I watch her just

699
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 3: sprinting the opposite direction, and as I turn back to look,

700
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 3: there's a man laying on the sidewalk and he is

701
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 3: half naked. His head has been completely crushed because, as

702
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 3: I will find out very soon, he just jumped from

703
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 3: a third story window and landed a foot in front

704
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 3: of us. Now, what made The whole thing surreal was

705
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 3: that this was about seven o'clock. There had been a

706
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 3: big kind of street bazaar there and everyone had cleared

707
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 3: out and there was really nobody on the streets. And

708
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 3: so I'm standing there by myself looking at this flailing,

709
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 3: horrific body, and I don't know what to do. So

710
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 3: I walk into the building that I look up and

711
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: I see the window open and the curtains blowing, and

712
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 3: I put two and two together and I realized this

713
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 3: person just jumped and almost landed on us. I go

714
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 3: into that building and it's a hotel and there's a

715
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 3: person on the phone. He sees me come over and

716
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 3: he's in the middle of a conversation. He goes, yes,

717
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 3: can I help you? And I said, somebody just jumped

718
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 3: from your from a third story window. And he's like, well,

719
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 3: what did they look like? And I said, well, their

720
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 3: head is not I can't tell you. And he goes,

721
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 3: what did he have a beard? I said, I think

722
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 3: So he puts the phone back in and he says,

723
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 3: you know what, Carl jumped again.

724
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. Why would this sad? You know what?

725
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 2: Hey, listen and thank you very much.

726
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 3: I'll call it in and he went back to his conversation,

727
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: and I didn't know what to do, so I walked

728
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 3: back out and I just stood there waiting for cops

729
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 3: and an ambulance to come. Eventually they did. They asked

730
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: me some questions. No one seemed that concerned about it.

731
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 3: And years later, as I would go on to Telegraph Avenue,

732
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 3: I remember watching the blood stain just get smaller and

733
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 3: smaller and smaller until it wasn't there anymore. And when

734
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 3: I think about that story, it reminds me that you

735
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 3: can be in a situation where something happens and for

736
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 3: you it will haunt you to the rest of your life,

737
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 3: and for everybody else, no one cared.

738
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: It was insignificant.

739
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: It was just another person that lost it on Telegraph Avenue, right,

740
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: another student who couldn't handle things and jumped out a window.

741
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 3: To me, I will never get the sound of his

742
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 3: head hitting the asphalt out of my memory. All right,

743
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 3: I'm going to skip ahead a little further because the

744
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 3: next one was the last one. And this is why

745
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 3: I think there was meaning in all of the things

746
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 3: that I saw. Because I'm going to give you a

747
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 3: little kind of preview of what my theory is we

748
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 3: talked about in episode four my encounter with death right

749
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 3: where I was in a hospital, I was dying of cancer.

750
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 3: I had sepsis temperature of one hundred and five point

751
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 3: five and I had light beings come to the foot

752
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: of my bed, and I wasn't scared. In fact, throughout

753
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: most of my whole cancer experience, I wasn't scared. You

754
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 3: talked to me a number of times, I was just

755
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 3: kind of accepting of the whole thing. Why because I'd

756
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 3: faced death, I'd seen it a number of times, not

757
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 3: through a loved one, right, not through it like a

758
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 3: controlled situation, but in the worst possible way. You could say, well, oh,

759
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 3: I'd become desensitized to it. Maybe maybe that's one way

760
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 3: of looking at the Other way of looking at it

761
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: is it was preparing me for my own moment where

762
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 3: I had to face death right, and I faced it

763
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 3: with as much strength as I could at the time.

764
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 3: This last example, or this last story that the sixth

765
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 3: person happened when we were at Dark Skies were writing

766
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 3: something late at night one Friday, I think probably for

767
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 3: a Monday shoot. I was there with my assistant Adam,

768
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: and there was a huge explosion that happened outside, and

769
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 3: the power flickered for a moment, and we went outside

770
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 3: and there was a car across the street that had

771
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 3: flipped and gone into kind of like an auto construction yard,

772
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 3: and the car alarm was going off, but it was

773
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 3: behind a fence with barbed wire on it, and it

774
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 3: was like, okay, we can't help that car. The other

775
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 3: car was down the road. And this is in North Hollywood,

776
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 3: so it was not a residential area. It was very industrial,

777
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 3: and it had veered off the road into a parking

778
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 3: lot and kind of like stopped right in front of

779
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 3: a building. And as I started to approach it, I

780
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 3: said to Adam, go call nine one one. I start

781
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 3: heading down.

782
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: To the car.

783
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 3: The driver's door opens and a teenager runs out and

784
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: runs away like hit and run or whatever this was.

785
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 3: And I thought, oh boy, okay, this is not good.

786
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 3: But just to make sure everyone else was okay, I

787
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 3: go all the way to the car. I go to

788
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 3: the passenger side and there is a man, a Hispanic man,

789
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 3: slumped without a seat belt on in the front seat,

790
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 3: and he kind of raises his head as I come

791
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 3: to the window, and he looks at me and he's

792
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 3: got blood coming out of his ear, which is never

793
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 3: a good sign, and he does not look well. And

794
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 3: so I reach over to the door. I open it up.

795
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 3: It's unlocked, and I kneel down and I said, I'm

796
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 3: trying to talk to him, and he's looking at me,

797
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 3: but he's not super responsive. And I'm saying, you know,

798
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 3: I called nine on one, it's going to be okay.

799
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 3: I'm trying to reassure him. And he reaches out this

800
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 3: trembling hand to me, and so I take his hand

801
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 3: and he squeezes it and he's just looking at me

802
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 3: right in the eyes, and all of the sudden, I

803
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 3: feel this electric shock coming through me, like his energy

804
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: is moving through me. As I'm watching it leave his body.

805
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 3: And as it's moving through me, I am seeing images

806
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 3: from his life in wherever, Mexico or whatever. Hearing Spanish,

807
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 3: I'm like, and it all happens in like four or

808
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 3: five seconds. It's like that moment when people say your

809
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 3: life flashes before you. His life flashed before life. And

810
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 3: next thing I know, he's gone. He's dead. He's holding

811
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 3: my hand, his hand goes slack.

812
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: He's a husk.

813
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 3: There's nothing, he's gone, and in that moment, I hear

814
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 3: from the back seat popa oh, and a little five

815
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 3: year old kid without a seat belt pops back up

816
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 3: as if he knew. Right at that moment, nothing was

817
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 3: said between me and this man, and somehow this kid

818
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 3: knew that his father had just died. At any rate,

819
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 3: I say all of this because there are certain aspects

820
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 3: of that story that are going to inform the next story.

821
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: I'll want to tell you. I actually wanted to just

822
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: vouch for that story. I obviously I don't know the

823
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: part about the being at the car and all that,

824
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: but there were a number of us who were outside.

825
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: We were in this warehouse, yes, and a number of

826
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: us were outside as the ambulances and the police cars

827
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 1: and everything came, and we were all watching it. And wow,

828
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: that's pretty pretty crazy.

829
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 2: It is.

830
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 3: And I think again, I feel, in a weird way,

831
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 3: I used to think there was a time when seeing

832
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 3: these deaths was a curse, right, and I actually feel

833
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 3: in a weird way that it was a blessing that

834
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,720
Speaker 3: it again prepared me for my own moment years later.

835
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: It's like, instead of you having a near death experience,

836
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: you experienced his death, which is exactly if I've had

837
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: a near death experience. But the thing about it is

838
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 1: it could be explained. You can explain a near death

839
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: experience you've got orphans running through you or whatever, but

840
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: this one not really not really.

841
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 3: As we move into the next story, I think one

842
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 3: of the things to take away from this is that

843
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 3: this notion of what we touched upon earlier and as

844
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: part of kind of the WU, is that we are

845
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 3: energy beings, right, and what our Nhi people talk about orbs,

846
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 3: you know, whether it's someone like Chris Bledsoe who's had

847
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 3: his own range very metaphysical, spiritually tinged experience, when you

848
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 3: talk about orbs, people are oftentimes wont to say, oh,

849
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 3: those are entities. Those are you know, plasma beings or

850
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 3: or whatever it is. But I think we've also heard

851
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 3: stories of Foo fighters that were in World War Two,

852
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 3: these orbs or entities that were attached to kind of

853
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 3: planes up in the air. There have been reports that

854
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: that's how crop circles are made, that these orbs or

855
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 3: these energy beings come in and actually inscribe them in

856
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 3: the wheat. So I don't know what any of that

857
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,760
Speaker 3: means other than it's clear there's something else going on. Here,

858
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 3: as you said, beyond the nuts and bolts, I think

859
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 3: the tendency is too. If it isn't nuts and bolts,

860
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 3: it's angels and demons, right, and it's one of the two,

861
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 3: like you gotta choose, and I think there's something else.

862
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:52,919
Speaker 3: I think there's this third rail where it's just not explainable.

863
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 3: So this next story I want to tell you is

864
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 3: one in which, going back to the hitchhiker effect in

865
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 3: Skinwalker Ranch, a lot of it was the investigators themselves.

866
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 3: They would go in and they would spend time at

867
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 3: the ranch, and then, as you said, they'd go home

868
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 3: across the country sometimes and the phenomenon would follow them.

869
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: And just to give our satelite and frequency connections, secrets

870
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 1: of Skinwalker Ranch is a big show on I believe

871
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,800
Speaker 1: History Channel, and it's because Brandon Feugel bought the place

872
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: from Robert Bigelow.

873
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 2: Robert Bigelow, yes, Robert.

874
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: Bigelow, and they're attempting to quantify wu. You know, they're

875
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: bringing all the technology that they can bring to bear.

876
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: Some episodes are disturbingly authentic, and some of them are

877
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: time fillers. Yes, you can't do that many episodes and

878
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: find out the secret of the universe. In every episode,

879
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: you can't always predict when strangeness is going to happen, correct,

880
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: So anyway onward, Yes, So that hitchhiker effect, though, as

881
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: I think is demonstrated so nicely in the Mothman prophecies,

882
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to just be about your in one

883
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: location and you move to another location.

884
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 3: It can also just be about what you study. It

885
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 3: can be about what you put your attention on. And

886
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 3: this is a story that happened to me when I

887
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 3: was in my late twenties. I was living in LA

888
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 3: I was a budding screenwriter. I'd already sold my Lovecraft

889
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 3: story The Resurrected, and I was working on a ghost

890
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 3: story that happened to be a comedy. And I was

891
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 3: really having trouble with the scene where the main character

892
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 3: met his deceased wife, and I wanted it to be funny, right,

893
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 3: but at the same time, I wanted it to feel real.

894
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 3: And I kept thinking to myself, Okay, in order to

895
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 3: make it funny, I have to know what would really

896
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: happen so I can put a comedic twist on it.

897
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 3: I need the baseline. So I started reading some ghost stories,

898
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 3: and you know it was like everything was boring and

899
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 3: nothing really inspired me, and I couldn't make this scene work,

900
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 3: and so my whole script was stalled. You've been there, Yeah,

901
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 3: So I kind of put it on the back burner.

902
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 3: And at the time, I had this very nifty ritual

903
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 3: where I would write until probably three or four in

904
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 3: the morning because at that time, and this was probably

905
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 3: the mid to you know, it was the late eighties,

906
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 3: I had money, so I didn't have to get up

907
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 3: at any specific time. I just worked at home. But

908
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 3: there was something cool about work writing from around midnight

909
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 3: until three or four in the morning because everyone else

910
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 3: was asleep, there were no interruptions.

911
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: And then I would.

912
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 3: Sleep in until ten eleven, sometimes even twelve, and I

913
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 3: had a whole morning ritual.

914
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 2: Or every morning.

915
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 3: I'd get up and i'd walk out and i'd get

916
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 3: the La Times, and before I even had breakfast or

917
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 3: anything to eat, I'd come back and I'd sit on

918
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 3: my bed and I'd start reading the La Times. And

919
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 3: I'd often do it with my cat, who I had

920
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 3: at the time. This one morning, I am sitting there

921
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 3: reading the La Times. It's probably noon, I mean it's

922
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 3: broad daylight, and I'm in a little bungalow apartment on

923
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 3: off Melrose Avenue in the middle of LA I'm reading

924
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 3: the paper and my mind riffs back to this script

925
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 3: that I'm writing, and I'm thinking, is today the day

926
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 3: am I going to try and do it? And meanwhile,

927
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 3: I'm just kind of like browsing the headlines in the paper,

928
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, I hear a voice say

929
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 3: to me, I'm right here.

930
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: I'm right here, I'm right here.

931
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: And I was kind of taken aback because there was

932
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 3: no one else in my apartment with me, and there

933
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 3: was no one else in the room. But the voice

934
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 3: was very clear. It came in one ear, and it

935
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 3: wasn't a male or female. It was I always say,

936
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 3: it was like pure information. It was just I just

937
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 3: knew that I'm right here. And then I sensed something

938
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 3: like almost like a weird chill in the room, and

939
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 3: I lowered the paper and at the foot of my

940
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 3: bed there's a woman standing there. And this woman is

941
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 3: completely three dimensional but translucent. I can see through her,

942
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 3: and she's got long, stringy blonde hair, and she's in

943
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 3: kind of a tattered like sun dress type thing, and

944
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 3: she's a little frumpy looking and She's just standing there

945
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 3: and I'm looking at her, and what immediately jumped out

946
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 3: at me or her eyes. Her eyes looked as though

947
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 3: if you gave like a three year old a piece

948
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: of charcoal and you said draw a circle, they would

949
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 3: do this really rough thing. Her eyes were these rough

950
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 3: black holes that were undulating, and that was very unsettling.

951
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 3: And as I'm focusing on this, there is a rush

952
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 3: of movement, just like when the man jumped in front

953
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 3: of me. The paper fell out of my hand. My

954
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: cat jumped off the bed with such force that it

955
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 3: left huge divits from its claws in my leg. I

956
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 3: felt my whole body being slammed back against the headboard,

957
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 3: and I felt tremendous pressure on my biceps. And as

958
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 3: I'm trying to orient myself, I start to feel a

959
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 3: tickle on my neck and I'm having one of those

960
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 3: rack focus moments where I'm like, wait, what is happening?

961
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 3: What's going on? And I look up and this woman

962
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 3: has jumped on me. She's pounced onto me. Her knees

963
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 3: are on my biceps, and she's holding my arms down.

964
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,720
Speaker 3: Her head is right over mine, and bryce I looked

965
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 3: up into those swirling black holes and I saw the cosmos.

966
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 3: I saw stars, a starfield. That was the most beautiful

967
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 3: thing I've ever seen in my life. And I felt

968
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 3: myself lifting up out of my body. Now I've had

969
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 3: out of body experiences before, this one was completely different

970
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 3: because this one felt as though I was being sucked.

971
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: Right.

972
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 3: It wasn't just me kind of floating, It was me

973
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 3: being sucked like.

974
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 1: In a vacuum.

975
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 3: And I felt myself being pulled up into the cosmos

976
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 3: through those eyes. And then I heard the voice again,

977
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 3: and the voice said to me, just look.

978
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 2: Away, just look away.

979
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,919
Speaker 3: And it was so insistent, that voice that I took

980
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 3: it as like a supreme command, like everything depended on

981
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 3: me being able to look away. And I, with all

982
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 3: of the energy I had, I turned my head and

983
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 3: it was gone. The spell was broken. There was no

984
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 3: one there, but I was surging. And in that moment,

985
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 3: I looked around and this was a nineteen forties kind

986
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,720
Speaker 3: of la bungalow, so it had all of that stucco,

987
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 3: you know, on the roof and on the walls, and

988
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 3: it was like looking at the Grand Canyon. Anything I

989
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 3: put my attention on, I was like zooming in on it,

990
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 3: and I could see the dust particles that were as

991
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 3: big as sage brush. It was absolutely amazing, and all

992
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 3: of the sudden, almost involuntarily, I yelled come back, because

993
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 3: in that moment I had never felt more alive. I

994
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 3: felt as if I took my fingers and I put

995
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 3: him into an electrical outlet. I was so charged up,

996
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 3: and I wasn't scared, even though there was a component

997
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 3: of the whole thing that felt strange, I was not scared.

998
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 3: After this happens, I do what any responsible person would do.

999
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 3: I call every person I know and I say, oh,

1000
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 3: you won't believe what happened, and everyone says pretty much.

1001
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 3: To a friend, oh you just fell back asleep. No,

1002
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 3: I did not fall back asleep. I slept until noon.

1003
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 3: I was wide awake. I was halfway through reading the

1004
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 3: La Times, and this thing happened. They said, oh, you

1005
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 3: just imagined you were working on a ghost story. It's

1006
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 3: all your imagination. And enough people told me that where

1007
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 3: I started to believe it, And after a couple of weeks,

1008
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 3: the whole thing went away and I was back to

1009
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 3: writing on my story. And that was that until one

1010
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 3: day a friend called me up and he said, hey,

1011
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 3: remember that story. You told me about that woman at

1012
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 3: the foot of your bed. I said yeah, and he goes,

1013
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 3: I want you to walk down the street Melrose Avenue

1014
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 3: to a place called Soap Plant.

1015
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,320
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember this story.

1016
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 3: Soap Plant was this esoteric kind of stuff where they

1017
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 3: had candles, very new agy, but they also had a

1018
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 3: whole book section.

1019
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 1: I bought moth.

1020
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 3: So I walked down there and he's the instructions he

1021
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 3: gives me is I want you to pick up the

1022
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 3: new Whole Earth Catalog. Now, the Whole Earth Catalog, for

1023
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 3: those people aren't familiar, was basically it was before the internet.

1024
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 3: So it was somebody had collected all of these strange

1025
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 3: and out of print books and you could buy them

1026
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 3: on the Whole Earth Catalog. And sometimes they were one

1027
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 3: of a kind. Sometimes they were just hard to find,

1028
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 3: but someone had come up with in all these different categories.

1029
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 3: And he says, go to the Whole Earth Catalog and

1030
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 3: go to page one eighty seven. I get to the

1031
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 3: Whole Earth Catalog. I'm in this store that people all

1032
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 3: around me. I start flipping through. I find page one

1033
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 3: eighty seven. I started looking at the titles. I'm like, okay,

1034
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 3: what's this and all of a sudden, I see this

1035
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 3: one book and something. It was like something called Witch Writer,

1036
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 3: and it's stories from Eastern Europe or Scandinavia or something

1037
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 3: that were about the legend of a woman who was

1038
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 3: sometimes called the Witch Rider, sometimes called the Old Hag,

1039
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 3: who the legend says, would appear at the foot of

1040
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 3: your bed and she would jump on you and steal

1041
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 3: your soul if you let her. And the legend said,

1042
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 3: if you didn't battle her and overcome her, people would

1043
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 3: find you in bed the next day, deceased. And as

1044
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,959
Speaker 3: I'm reading this, all of the fear that I did

1045
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 3: not have during that event came up through me at

1046
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 3: that moment, and I remember throwing the book out of

1047
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,760
Speaker 3: my hand. I wanted nothing to do with that book,

1048
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 3: or that story or anything, because I could not reconcile

1049
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 3: how some spirit from centuries ago in Eastern Europe or

1050
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,919
Speaker 3: Scandinavia or whatever it is could appear at the foot

1051
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 3: of my bed in Melrose Avenue on a Thursday at noon.

1052
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 3: It did not make any sense. The world felt very

1053
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,280
Speaker 3: small and very scary at that moment. So I lived

1054
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 3: with this story for years, and I have told people

1055
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 3: about this story and people have then called me up

1056
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 3: the next day and said, I hate you for telling

1057
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 3: me that story. I saw something at the foot of

1058
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 3: my bed. I freaked out. Now I can't sleep in

1059
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 3: that room anymore. Like there's a transference quality to it,

1060
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 3: which is similar to the Hitchhiker effect. Now, as we

1061
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 3: come to the end of the episode, I just want

1062
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 3: to share something before you do.

1063
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: Though, before you on the Old Hag, you told me

1064
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: that story. And then a few years later, I was

1065
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 1: the showrunner of a show called The Crow Stairway to Heaven,

1066
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: yes TV version. You even wrote an episode of it. Yep.

1067
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: So I was running this show and so the Crow

1068
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: basically is a guy that dies and he comes back

1069
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:15,399
Speaker 1: reincarnated a year later. Anyway, so I was studying up

1070
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: on afterlife phenomenon and I had in the same way

1071
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: that you've described, I had a bunch of UFO books

1072
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: for this show. I had a bunch of books about

1073
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,280
Speaker 1: the afterlife and all that. When you told me that story,

1074
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: I sort of put it in my head, didn't think

1075
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: too much about it. And as I was reading those

1076
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 1: books while doing The Crow, there is a description in

1077
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 1: one of my books about the Old Hag or whatever

1078
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 1: the same description. Black coal is how I believe they

1079
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: described him jumping on people in bed. So clearly I'm

1080
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: here to vouch for the fact that A. You told

1081
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: me that story, and then I saw that, And frankly,

1082
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 1: I was thinking about that very story just a couple

1083
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: of days ago, because while I was off visiting my

1084
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: daughter in Boss, we were just looking for something to

1085
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: watch on TV. And there's a new series out called

1086
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 1: Widow's Bay with Matthew Reese I believe his name is,

1087
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: and it's got an old hag that jumps him in

1088
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 1: bed one night. She didn't have the coal eyes, but

1089
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: she's pretty frightening, and she did pin him down. There

1090
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: is that storyline that's out there. So yeah, you consider

1091
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: yourself a member in a long fraternity of people that

1092
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 1: have been jumped in bed by old hags with coal eyes.

1093
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 3: Well, and one of the scientific theories is that it's

1094
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 3: a form of sleep paralysis, right, somehow, it's a archetypal

1095
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 3: nightmare that people have. They keep seeing the same woman. Now,

1096
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 3: even that is strange. What is the chance that people

1097
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 3: across centuries would be seeing the exact same entity at

1098
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 3: the foot of their bed. But be that as it may.

1099
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that it's real. I'm just saying it

1100
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 3: happened to me. Here's the last thing I want to

1101
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 3: leave you with that. I think that's a dark story,

1102
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 3: but there's actually a silver lining to it. There was something,

1103
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 3: there was a component of it. It always discurbed me.

1104
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 3: That feels like it's quintessential wu. The voice said to me,

1105
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 3: I'm right here. In my mind, I always associated that

1106
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 3: with the entity. Hey, you've been looking for a real

1107
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 3: ghost story. Well I'm right here. You're about to have one, right,

1108
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 3: But it didn't reconcile with the fact that same voice

1109
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 3: said to me, just look away.

1110
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 2: That's cross purposes.

1111
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,959
Speaker 3: Because on one hand, I'm right here, says I'm about

1112
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 3: to jump on you. The other one says, you know what,

1113
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 3: I don't really want to steal your soul. Just look

1114
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 3: away and you can opt out of this. But I

1115
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 3: never could make sense of it. I just always took

1116
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 3: it at face value and said the whole thing is

1117
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 3: just weird. There's no logic to it. Until about a

1118
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 3: year ago, I was talking to a friend who happens

1119
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 3: to be a medium, and as I start to tell

1120
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 3: her the story, and I say, I'm right here, she goes, oh,

1121
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 3: that was your higher self, that was your guardian angel,

1122
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 3: as it were. And I said, what do you mean

1123
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 3: She goes, oh, Well, when you were about to experience

1124
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 3: something traumatic like that, if you're in contact with your

1125
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 3: higher self, they were just letting you know that you're

1126
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 3: not going to be experiencing it alone. The entity would

1127
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 3: not give you that warning. The entity was there to

1128
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 3: steal your soul. And what the voice was saying is

1129
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 3: don't worry. I'm right here by your side. And that

1130
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 3: was the voice that said just look away. That was

1131
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 3: the voice that saved you. So when we come back

1132
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 3: to this framing of it's either angels or demons or

1133
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 3: it's aliens, right, there's this other lane where my higher self,

1134
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 3: or maybe tied to my consciousness or something else that

1135
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 3: is not angels or demons, that is not aliens, somehow

1136
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 3: let my soul stay in my body and not disappear

1137
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 3: into the cosmos. And that is very comforting to me

1138
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 3: that I am some aspect of me is watching out

1139
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 3: for me.

1140
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: I love that aspect of it. These are wild stories

1141
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: and disturbing in their own way. I have one final

1142
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: story I'm going to throw as a log on this fire,

1143
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: yes please, because it's not as dramatic as being jumped

1144
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: in your bed by an old hag who's trying to

1145
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: steal your soul or whatever, and yet it's oddly disturbing

1146
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: and it sort of fits in with what we've been

1147
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: talking about where we talked about like the postcards that

1148
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: came to us before while we were writing Dark Skies. Okay,

1149
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 1: this is after Dark Skys, it's after the Crow, it's

1150
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: after all that. It's twenty ten and I'm writing this

1151
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: book ad after Disclosure with Richard Dolan, who many people know.

1152
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm currently hosting Need to Know with Dolan, and we

1153
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 1: wrote that book together and it took about a year

1154
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 1: and for over off and on during the year, we

1155
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: would have phone calls where because he lived on the

1156
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 1: East coast, I lived on the West coast, and we'd say, hey,

1157
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: I was just thinking what about this? What about that?

1158
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: And so we had our own sort of research that

1159
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: we were doing, and then we would compare notes and

1160
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: I had a thought, just so you know, I had

1161
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: my own file. There was nothing like Google docs right now,

1162
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: where you know, you and I share files and I

1163
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: can write on top of you and you can leave

1164
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 1: comments for we didn't have any of that. We basically

1165
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: wrote I believe back then I was on Max, so

1166
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: I was using pages, I think, but I had my

1167
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 1: own little pages file and occasionally I would turn it

1168
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 1: into a PDF and send it off to Rich for

1169
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: him to look at. But this one particular day, there's

1170
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: no file open on my computer and we're just having

1171
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: a shoot the breeze conversation and one of us, I

1172
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: think it was me, it had some mentioned something about threes.

1173
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: So we were just saying, well, is there anything two threes?

1174
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 1: You know? Do these beings have three fingers? What about

1175
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: these triangular craft with three lights? You know? Was there

1176
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 1: what's the deal with threes? And we had you know,

1177
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 1: maybe it was kind of an uneventful conversation because did

1178
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: it really belong in an after disclosure book? Not really sure,

1179
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: but it was just a divergence. We're talking about it, okay.

1180
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 1: So that happens. The next day I decide, okay, well

1181
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 1: this time to get back to work. So I open

1182
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: up my pages file, which has all my research notes

1183
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: in it. I'm thinking, you know, I had taken handwritten

1184
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: notes from the day before, and I'm thinking, okay, I

1185
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: got to write up these research notes, so open up

1186
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 1: the file. They're on page one are my previous research notes.

1187
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: But in the middle of the page are three lines

1188
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 1: of threes, the number three, the number three, and it's

1189
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: just if you hold the number three down on your keyboard,

1190
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: it's almost like it's just printing threes. So there's three

1191
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: entire lines of threes. I didn't put them there, Rich

1192
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 1: didn't put them there, we didn't share the file. Nobody

1193
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: snuck into my house to put them there, but there

1194
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: they were. So I've over the years said, well, what

1195
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: would explain that. I guess one would be it could

1196
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 1: be the phenomenon, you know, expressing itself. I guess some

1197
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: more down to earth. One would be I was being

1198
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: watched because of our dark Skies thing, and somebody who's

1199
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 1: part of whatever the cover up is or whatever is

1200
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 1: messing with me. It's the equivalent of the postcard that

1201
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: said we are watching you. This one is a different

1202
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: way to say it. But I definitely felt like somebody's

1203
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: watching me or something, because there it was. I can't

1204
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: explain it other than those two options. But those things

1205
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: happen to people, these synchronicities. But this is more than

1206
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: a synchronicity. It's not just a coincidence. I guess you

1207
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: could almost argue it's a coincidence that the Mothman prophecy

1208
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: book is in the hands of the Dark Stranger, if

1209
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: you will. I'm not sure what explains this one, and

1210
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 1: so I guess as we have to wrap this, it

1211
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: appears that the central question for WU at this point,

1212
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 1: because it's starting to be studied with people with technology

1213
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: and data and all that, as we discussed with Skinwalker.

1214
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 1: Maybe somedays somebody will have some better answers for some

1215
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 1: of these kinds of things. I'm not sure exactly what

1216
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 1: the answer is to the old Hag, let's say, on

1217
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: the one where you've seen six people expire in front

1218
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: of you. I'm not sure if there is a phenomenon

1219
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: that is a non human intelligence, why it chooses to

1220
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: do this. To Brent Friedman, I ask myself that question

1221
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: many times. Look, I think if I had to try

1222
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: and summarize all of this, it's a version of the

1223
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: quote we used in the Abyss, when you stare at

1224
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: the Abyss stares back at you, yes, And I think

1225
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: in this case you can say and it taunts you,

1226
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: it teases you, it misdirects you.

1227
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 3: And it's that sense of seeing the number three after

1228
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 3: you've been talking about it. There's that trickster mentality again. Right,

1229
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:36,959
Speaker 3: It's not threatening, but it's unsettling. And I think, why

1230
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 3: the old hag, Why have I seen these six deaths?

1231
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 3: Why have I had a lot of strange experiences in

1232
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 3: my life? I think it's all sending me a message.

1233
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 3: I think that for whatever reason, I have shown curiosity

1234
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 3: and at times I have investigated this area, and it's

1235
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 3: acknowledging me.

1236
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see, that is exactly what the people speculate about. Listen,

1237
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 1: we've already done this in incredibly long show. One of

1238
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 1: the best TV series about WU is Twin Peaks. Yes,

1239
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 1: it's not really about UFOs, although in the final season

1240
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 1: there are some UFOs and Project Bluebook invoked. But it's

1241
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 1: a great WU TV series if you're looking for that.

1242
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: And look, we don't have time to get into these.

1243
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 1: We're going to talk maybe at another episode later in

1244
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 1: the season, or god forbid, maybe we'll come back in

1245
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 1: a second season and do it. But just a couple

1246
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 1: of things that people might want to consider. The John

1247
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: Travolta film Phenomenon is about a download, and people are

1248
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: telling about downloads that you're just along in your life

1249
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: and you wake up the next day and you understand

1250
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 1: physics right, and those things happen. So there's a movie

1251
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: about that. I believe you're a Picnic at Hanging Rock fan,

1252
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 1: huge fan of Picnic at Hanging Rock with the caveat that.

1253
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: If you don't like slow foreign films, you won't like this.

1254
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: But it's a Peter Weir film. The guy did Gallipoli,

1255
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 1: Master and Commander The Truman Show. Excellent filmmaker, based on

1256
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: a true story that happened in Australia. Highly recommend it.

1257
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 2: Super woo.

1258
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 1: A current, fairly current film is Annihilation, which is sort

1259
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 1: of about some kind of alien presence that doesn't communicate

1260
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: in a normal way but does it by transforming and

1261
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 1: duplicating and mutating and all that stuff. Another good one,

1262
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: of course, is Solaris, where the planet itself or the

1263
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: ocean in the planet seems to be alive and interacting

1264
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 1: with human consciousness. There's two versions of it, the original

1265
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: Russian version and the George Clooney George Clooney version, and

1266
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: a couple that I've seen recently. One is Coherence, which

1267
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 1: I really it's a small budget film. It fits very

1268
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: much within the film that we just had, the series

1269
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier. Dark it's kind of like, what's

1270
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 1: going on here? The timeline shifting, who's doing what? And

1271
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 1: I just saw another one on the plane the other day,

1272
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 1: the Nines, which stars Ryan Reynolds. But it's fascinating and

1273
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 1: it's definite wo going on. But my favorite that I've

1274
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 1: always loved, and I wonder if you've seen it, is

1275
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 1: the Casey Affleck Rooney Mara movie A ghost Story. Yes,

1276
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: that is excellent. I find that interesting because it challenges

1277
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 1: the essence of a ghost story. It inverts time and

1278
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: what looks like initially a person who's died, who can't

1279
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: move on or whatever, and by the end of the

1280
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 1: thing it's cosmic. It's just a cosmic story and kind

1281
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 1: of chilling. But again, if you want to go evil Woo,

1282
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 1: you got to go Twin Peaks.

1283
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 2: Yes.

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01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 3: One of my favorite lines from Twin Peaks was the

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01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 3: owls are not what they seem.

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01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: Yes, they never are. And in fact, that goes back

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01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: to I believe Whitley Strieber was talking about owls in communion. Anyway,

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01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: I guess The essence of this is, yes, there is

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01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: certainly a lot of files out there, there are videos,

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01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 1: there are photos, there's all this stuff that's likely to

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01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: be coming out, and maybe maybe we are going to

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01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 1: finally at least acknowledge there's an intelligence out there that's

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01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 1: different than ours, that seem to be here and interacting

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01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 1: with us. And if we do anything with this episode,

1295
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: it is simply to suggest that interacting with us doesn't

1296
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 1: just mean flying around in spaceships and picking up people

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01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 1: to do biological experiments on them, which apparently has happened,

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01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 1: or at least is meant to look like it's happened

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01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 1: by something. But there's also this world that you've peeled

1300
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 1: back for us with your stories and with these other stories,

1301
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 1: and they're disturbing, and yet they happen. In fact, I

1302
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: would probably argue more people experience the WU factor than

1303
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: they do the UFO factor.

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01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely anyway, and maybe we'll have to do a whole

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01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 3: other episode a part two about the WU because there

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01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 3: are many other stories to tell, many other interesting movies

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01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 3: and TV shows to talk about, but this has been

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01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 3: a lot of fun.

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01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,680
Speaker 1: Sound Light and Frequency is an iHeart podcast produced by

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01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: Stellar Productions. It's executive produced by Nick Johnson and for

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01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 1: Stellar Jackie's Abel. Our show's music was written by Anna

1312
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:06,759
Speaker 1: Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser, and your hosts and executive producers

1313
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 1: are Bryce Abel, That's Me and Brent Friedman Watch the

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01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: Skies