Speaker 1: Adam, do you remember when we brought our now five
Speaker 1: year old home from the hospital?
Speaker 2: No, I don't. Isn't it weird how you just you don't.
Speaker 2: It's hard to remember these times.
Speaker 1: I'm convinced you don't remember them because there is no sleeping,
Speaker 1: This is true. Do you remember us struggling to get
Speaker 1: Albi to sleep? Can you remember any of those nights?
Speaker 2: That's the first time in your life that you're sort
Speaker 2: of voluntarily getting out of bed five, six, seven times
Speaker 2: a night, and then performing tasks you've never performed in
Speaker 2: your life. You know what I mean. It's like you're
Speaker 2: just wrapping your head around changing diapers and now you're
Speaker 2: doing it half asleep, in the middle of the night,
Speaker 2: in the dark, with a baby putting I would say
Speaker 2: a little bit of pressure on you by screaming his
Speaker 2: head off.
Speaker 1: I'm convinced that this is the key sleep and parenthood
Speaker 1: and sleep and family is the key to like happiness.
Speaker 2: And especially if you're co parenting, you need to be
Speaker 2: on the same page.
Speaker 1: Quality of sleep and sleep for all four of our
Speaker 1: family unit with such a priority. And I think this
Speaker 1: episode is going to be such a gift to parents
Speaker 1: and families who are listening. Not only will we spend
Speaker 1: some time talking about parenting and your kids sleep, but
Speaker 1: we also are going to discuss.
Speaker 3: The parent's sleep because that's super important too.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Hey, it's Katie Low's and I'm Adam Shapiro and this.
Speaker 1: Is Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia
Speaker 1: in partnership with Mattress Firm.
Speaker 2: This is Nature's original alarm clock. Probably can't find this
Speaker 2: as an option on your phone's alarm settings, but it
Speaker 2: is certainly effective. There may not be a bigger disruption
Speaker 2: in one sleep than a newborn baby.
Speaker 1: Not only that, but how can parents prioritize and sleep
Speaker 1: train themselves to get a good night's rest at any
Speaker 1: stage of their child's life. Yes, today we are talking
Speaker 1: to two great exps. Birds Meg who is the creator
Speaker 1: of Infinite Connection formerly known as Miss Megan's Method, is
Speaker 1: a pediatric sleep consultant who has helped a number of
Speaker 1: families sleep train their children. And she's here with her
Speaker 1: adorable four month old. Could this baby be cuter? She's
Speaker 1: so cute. So if you hear a baby crying.
Speaker 2: And I'm so impressed that you're doing this with a
Speaker 2: baby on your lap. Also, joining us is doctor Jade Wu,
Speaker 2: a board certified behavioral sleep psychologist and researcher. She's passionate
Speaker 2: about helping new parents overcome sleep challenges during pregnancy and
Speaker 2: postpartum periods. Later this year, doctor Wu is also launching
Speaker 2: good Night Mama, a resource and community dedicated to helping
Speaker 2: pregnant and new moms sleep better and thrive during parenthood. Wow,
Speaker 2: thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1: We need to just give applause all around for the
Speaker 1: work both of you are doing.
Speaker 3: Doctor Wu.
Speaker 1: You study sleep and you're already a parent of two
Speaker 1: very young kids. What has your experience been like with
Speaker 1: sleep since becoming a parent yourself?
Speaker 4: Well, so, I have a three year old and a
Speaker 4: one year old. I think one learning that I throughout
Speaker 4: the window was this idea of perfection of if I
Speaker 4: just go by the science, and if I go by
Speaker 4: what should happen, and I try to perfect it as
Speaker 4: much as possible, then things will be fine. But there's
Speaker 4: actually no perfect when it comes to parenting, when it
Speaker 4: comes to sleep, and even very good is rare and
Speaker 4: always changing. Right, So your definition for what's very good
Speaker 4: is different from one day to another, one week to another.
Speaker 4: Because babies are rapidly changing. Their sleep needs are rapidly changing.
Speaker 4: Your own sleep needs are rapidly changing. Your own hormones
Speaker 4: are changing postpartum. So there are just so many things
Speaker 4: that are in the mix that it's almost impossible to
Speaker 4: find the perfect algorithm.
Speaker 1: Oh, I remember this feeling of like, Adam, do you
Speaker 1: remember this. My kid would skip a nap and I
Speaker 1: would feel like a failure and to look at the
Speaker 1: bigger picture to say it's okay.
Speaker 4: And also, I think when we impose a schedule like that,
Speaker 4: we're actually doing the opposite of what's helpful. And really,
Speaker 4: I think it's more about rhythms, not schedules. So instead
Speaker 4: of calculating like, oh, she woke up at three point
Speaker 4: thirty two pm, therefore her bedtime has to be seven
Speaker 4: forty two pm, like down to the minute, that just
Speaker 4: doesn't make sense. Then we're really just imposing arbitrary rules.
Speaker 4: If we go by rhythms of like, okay, we have sleepiness,
Speaker 4: and then we have wakefulness, and we have sleepiness again,
Speaker 4: let's follow the baby's cues. Let's generally have this ebb
Speaker 4: and flow of the tide.
Speaker 5: Oh that's good to know, because if you're teaching the
Speaker 5: child to do the same thing at the same time,
Speaker 5: in the same order every day. How are they going
Speaker 5: to be resilient and.
Speaker 3: Flexible and adaptable? Sure, and exactly.
Speaker 1: Thank you Meg from me a mommy and all of
Speaker 1: us out there. So you've met a lot of sleepy
Speaker 1: moms and dads through the years. How would you describe
Speaker 1: your method?
Speaker 5: I would say that my method, like really is just
Speaker 5: a holistic approach of helping the child learn to trust
Speaker 5: in and of themselves in relation to sleep, in relation
Speaker 5: to their sleep space, and then trust the caregivers that
Speaker 5: they're interacting with.
Speaker 2: When we had our babies, our first priority was sleep smart.
Speaker 5: You know, sleep is ultimately all about self regulation. I
Speaker 5: feel like I'm a Google translate to baby speak, so
Speaker 5: to speak, and I teach parents kind of this latter
Speaker 5: concept that actually helps the child through coregulation to learn
Speaker 5: how to self regulate.
Speaker 2: One of our biggest struggles as new parents is figuring
Speaker 2: out what to do when the baby is crying. How
Speaker 2: do each of you approach this?
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't use any crde out tactics, but
Speaker 5: I don't want to avoid, suppress or pacify the child's emotions.
Speaker 2: Easy.
Speaker 5: I teach a parent what a down cry sounds like,
Speaker 5: because if the child is having a downcry or is
Speaker 5: beginning to de escalate, like they are going the right
Speaker 5: direction on their own.
Speaker 4: Right, So communication is kind of just broad strokes at
Speaker 4: the beginning of life, right, There's just basically a couple
Speaker 4: of different types of cries that a baby can do
Speaker 4: to communicate their needs. So I think sometimes in our
Speaker 4: worst moments, we can feel like, oh, the baby is
Speaker 4: crying again, getting like this is so frustrating, But you
Speaker 4: know that this is the only way that the baby
Speaker 4: has to communicate with us. So it's our job to
Speaker 4: figure out why, or at least to go with the
Speaker 4: flow and try our best to meet the baby where
Speaker 4: she's at and also offer the boundaries that make for
Speaker 4: healthy sleep and healthy you know everything else.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: I remember when Adam and I were dealing with our
Speaker 1: first and trying to get him to sleep, and he
Speaker 1: was so much better at listening to crying and just
Speaker 1: like having a sort of calm response to it, where
Speaker 1: I like jump to deaf con or so quickly. Do
Speaker 1: you find that sometimes moms have a much harder time
Speaker 1: dealing with crying than someone who might.
Speaker 3: Be a little bit more emotionally, how do we want
Speaker 3: to say it?
Speaker 2: Adam, stunted, detached, frozen inside.
Speaker 4: You know, I think there is something about moms that
Speaker 4: are just we're just hyper vigilant. Cries sound so aversive
Speaker 4: to us because we are programmed to respond right away.
Speaker 4: So that makes sense because evolutionarily speaking, if a baby
Speaker 4: was left alone, it was either going to freeze to
Speaker 4: death or get eaten by a tiger right back way
Speaker 4: back in the day.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, so you know, babies cry to call for
Speaker 5: that sense of safety. They're very much anchored to their parent,
Speaker 5: and it's about being able to like honor the child's
Speaker 5: communications and listen underneath what they're telling you to you know,
Speaker 5: address whatever those behaviors are, but also meet those needs.
Speaker 1: I think moms feel a lot of guilt too. Some
Speaker 1: moms finally move the baby out, and they feel so
Speaker 1: bad that they finally got a better connected few hours
Speaker 1: because they're not waking up from every fart and burp
Speaker 1: and rolling sound and gurgle, and it's like, you know.
Speaker 4: I totally hear you about that guilt, and I've personally
Speaker 4: felt that too, even though I know like the science
Speaker 4: and the you know of how it works. I think
Speaker 4: that's a little bit of mom guilt is maybe unavoidable.
Speaker 4: But the reassurance I can offer is this. You know,
Speaker 4: when you as a mom, when you are sleeping better,
Speaker 4: you are able to be a better mom during the day.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I totally feel that way personally. I notice in my
Speaker 1: day to day life on nights where I get a
Speaker 1: better sleep, I'm a better mom.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, okay, we have collected this list of things that
Speaker 1: parents will use to help their children sleep.
Speaker 3: And we want to run them by you for your opinion. Okay,
Speaker 3: here we go.
Speaker 1: First, one Meg putting on lullabies or soft music to commobate.
Speaker 5: I think that it can be helpful to use a
Speaker 5: lullaby or music for a child because from a neurological standpoint,
Speaker 5: they're connecting to sleep from awake with it. But it
Speaker 5: shouldn't be something that they need all the time forever.
Speaker 3: What about you, doctor Wu.
Speaker 4: I use music to cueue the beginning of the bedtime routine,
Speaker 4: but not for the baby to fall asleep. Great, because
Speaker 4: whatever the baby needs at bedtime to fall asleep is
Speaker 4: what they need to get back to sleep when they
Speaker 4: wake up during the night. So you don't want to
Speaker 4: be playing that song all night long, so you can
Speaker 4: use it to cue the beginning of the wind down.
Speaker 2: But oh wait, wait, what about the fact that you
Speaker 2: want your kid to know that you have a good voice?
Speaker 2: Do I do the whole second act of a musical
Speaker 2: or do I just it's very important to me that
Speaker 2: they know that you.
Speaker 3: Know you can feel free.
Speaker 1: What about white noise? We all in my household have
Speaker 1: an addiction to this. Is that bad or good?
Speaker 4: I think it's fine to use it throughout the night.
Speaker 4: It's studies have shown it to be safe and effective.
Speaker 3: And meg, what do you think?
Speaker 5: I mean, I think as long as it's below like
Speaker 5: fifty decibels and so it's not and it's not too
Speaker 5: close to the child, then I think it's really a
Speaker 5: personal preference.
Speaker 2: But if you got trash trucks all morning.
Speaker 5: Some of the deepest sleepers are in New York City
Speaker 5: and they do not use white noise, And some of
Speaker 5: the families use white noise to kind of make a
Speaker 5: wall of sound and drown out the startling outside noises.
Speaker 5: So I think it really is a personal preference, and
Speaker 5: it depends on the situation.
Speaker 2: I like that, all right. What about melatonin?
Speaker 4: Never use melotonin without a doctor's guidance.
Speaker 2: Good to know.
Speaker 3: It is not a sleep aid.
Speaker 4: And it is not just a benign vitamin gummy that
Speaker 4: your kid can take. It's a hormone and taking it
Speaker 4: at the wrong time, at the wrong dose can backfire,
Speaker 4: and it can also have other effects that we may
Speaker 4: not be aware of for such a young person.
Speaker 2: I completely agree with Jade.
Speaker 5: Parents are giving melatonin to children as young as eighteen
Speaker 5: months old. They don't understand that it's dangerous.
Speaker 3: I had no idea.
Speaker 1: I guess people feel such accessibility to it because it's
Speaker 1: just over the count, like it has cute cartoons on it,
Speaker 1: and it's over the counter.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Like, I'm thinking, right, that's actually a problem that's over
Speaker 4: the counter. When it's over the counter, it's not FDA regulated,
Speaker 4: And a study found that the dosage has been as
Speaker 4: high as five times higher than what's advertised on the label.
Speaker 4: So if you think you're giving a one milligram, you
Speaker 4: don't want to overdose your kid on melatonin. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We're going to get into this on an upcoming episode
Speaker 1: about sleep and supplements, But I got to tell you
Speaker 1: this is shocking.
Speaker 2: There's more Chasing Sleep In a moment, Welcome back to
Speaker 2: Chasing Sleep, where Katie and Adam a couple of parents,
Speaker 2: we're learning all about sleep and parenting from sleep scientists
Speaker 2: doctor Jade Wu and Meg from Infinite Connection.
Speaker 1: What age should kids be sleeping in their own room
Speaker 1: and in their own beds?
Speaker 3: I right away, Ah, this is a biggie.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, being that you are a doctor, is
Speaker 1: there a recommended age?
Speaker 4: So there's a couple of answers to this. I'll start
Speaker 4: with the official answer from the American Academy of Pediatrics,
Speaker 4: and they recommend sleeping in the same room for six
Speaker 4: months and then you can transition your baby to a
Speaker 4: separate room after that. But in reality, there's a huge
Speaker 4: range and cultural preferences in family ability to have separate
Speaker 4: space and siblings and all sorts of different variations, So
Speaker 4: it's really not set in stone like that. What I
Speaker 4: tell my patients is think about the whole family system.
Speaker 4: It's not just about what's technically recommended for the baby.
Speaker 4: It's will you be able to sleep if the baby
Speaker 4: is in the room with you? Will your partner be
Speaker 4: able to sleep? Will your other kids be able to sleep?
Speaker 4: So there are actually creative solutions we can do for
Speaker 4: the whole family system.
Speaker 2: Interesting that idea about the whole family system. I wanted
Speaker 2: to ask about the parents specifically because Katie and I
Speaker 2: know firsthand how important it is for parents to get
Speaker 2: the sleep that they need. So when we were doing
Speaker 2: our homework for this episode, we dug into Mattress Firms
Speaker 2: newly published Sleep Uncovered report about the effect of parenting
Speaker 2: on sleep, and they surveyed more than fourteen hundred parents
Speaker 2: and non parents and found that there's a big difference
Speaker 2: between the two groups. Parents have to cram in a
Speaker 2: lot of tasks before.
Speaker 1: Bed, right, Katie, so many tasks, I mean before bed
Speaker 1: there's bath and bedtime and books and brushing tea and
Speaker 1: the different nighttime diper sal machine.
Speaker 3: And then make sure you passage deserve next day.
Speaker 2: Exactly a lot of tasks. Now, by the time we
Speaker 2: get the kids down, that time before we had to
Speaker 2: bed ourselves is the only chance we get to do
Speaker 2: all the stuff that we weren't able to do during
Speaker 2: the day. And that's paying bills, it's putting ourselves on
Speaker 2: tape for three auditions, it's returning emails, it's exercising.
Speaker 3: Only Adam exercises at night. I do not do that.
Speaker 2: I like a nighttime exercise.
Speaker 3: Wow, I'm impressed.
Speaker 1: Building on what Adam said, the Parenting Report found that
Speaker 1: parents also carry a lot more of that mental burden,
Speaker 1: especially before bed. It's like they're significantly more likely to
Speaker 1: go to bed feeling stressed or angry or upset or nervous,
Speaker 1: which Man, I can really relate to big time. So
Speaker 1: I want to know what are your thoughts, like, do
Speaker 1: parents sabotage their sleep with these habits?
Speaker 4: Sadly not surprised to hear any of these findings. I
Speaker 4: think there's a couple of things going on here. One
Speaker 4: is you're right, Adam, that parents simply have more stuff
Speaker 4: they got to get done. Or there's something called have
Speaker 4: you heard of revenge bedtime procrastination? No, it's this concept
Speaker 4: that originated in China where people are notoriously stressed out
Speaker 4: with work and overworked. But the idea is you don't
Speaker 4: get enough me time during the day to actually fulfill
Speaker 4: your emotional and creative and spiritual needs, so you up
Speaker 4: not going to bed so you can like almost like
Speaker 4: resentfully use that time to finally catch up on shows.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is what I'm doing, Katie.
Speaker 2: You're like, I don't want to go to bed right
Speaker 2: now because I didn't even have time to do something
Speaker 2: I like to do.
Speaker 1: I'm so angry that sometimes just to like not go
Speaker 1: to sleep, I'll just be like, hence the revenge doing
Speaker 1: all my stuff, you know, to really show how much
Speaker 1: I still have my life in my things that are
Speaker 1: just mine. But then, of course, inevitably I just end
Speaker 1: up looking at pictures of my children from five years ago.
Speaker 3: I know I do that too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's really tough for parents because we're always
Speaker 4: juggling this emotional rollercoaster of like I love my kids,
Speaker 4: there are a total pain in the butt, yes, you know.
Speaker 4: So we're holding so many emotions, holding so many responsibilities,
Speaker 4: and holding so many tasks. It's like, do you ever
Speaker 4: feel like your brain has like forty tabs open, like
Speaker 4: like a browser tab, you know, just because there are
Speaker 4: so many tasks that you have to keep track of
Speaker 4: and so many schedules to coordinate, and like it's like
Speaker 4: running a small startup company. Right.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I find most of the parents their head hits
Speaker 5: the pillow and their their minds are spinning with anxiety
Speaker 5: about parenting and you know, how to fit it all
Speaker 5: in their day and how to manage their time, and
Speaker 5: so you know that's that's definitely one side of it.
Speaker 5: But I would say more often than not, when the
Speaker 5: parents start sleeping, they come back to me like, uh,
Speaker 5: we're pregnant again.
Speaker 4: So when you have all of that going on, your
Speaker 4: brain is busy. Your brain is holding all this stuff.
Speaker 4: It's not putting that stuff down, So it's much harder
Speaker 4: to get good quality sleep.
Speaker 2: Can we just talk about older kids and how sleeping
Speaker 2: changes with older kids? Can you talk a little bit
Speaker 2: about that, doctor Ruber, Like, you know, kids seven to ten,
Speaker 2: that's what we're going about to run into, Katie.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 4: So, first of all, sleep does change very rapidly throughout childhood,
Speaker 4: so the amount of sleep that child needs tends to decrease,
Speaker 4: but also the timing too. So you've probably heard of chronotype,
Speaker 4: that's your biologically hardwired preference for sleeping at a certain time.
Speaker 4: Teenagers are night owls. Younger kids are mourning people. So
Speaker 4: somewhere in the early adolescence puberty kind of window, the
Speaker 4: chronotype of child will shift later. So that's something we
Speaker 4: do need to remember because teenagers are going to school
Speaker 4: way too early. It's backwards. The young kids are going
Speaker 4: to school later and the teenagers are going to school
Speaker 4: really early. It should be the other way around. Biologically,
Speaker 4: teenagers are not able to get enough sleep and get
Speaker 4: up at six am to go to school. That's just
Speaker 4: literally not possible. So we have to start high schools later.
Speaker 4: But younger kids can get up earlier and go to
Speaker 4: school earlier, so they're fine. So that's one of the
Speaker 4: biggest public health things we can and should do, like immediately.
Speaker 4: What the heck? California has already adopted this and other
Speaker 4: places around the country too.
Speaker 3: I had no idea.
Speaker 1: Also, is it cool that my husband is still on
Speaker 1: the whatever the teenager system is.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's totally normal, Thank you, doctor Rue.
Speaker 4: Think of it this way evolutionarily speaking, you know, if
Speaker 4: everybody in the tribe fell asleep at the same time
Speaker 4: and woke up at the same time, then everybody is
Speaker 4: a snack.
Speaker 2: Right, some of us have to stay up a little later, Katie,
Speaker 2: protect the family from the.
Speaker 3: Bears exactly, and be the night watchmen. Oh, that's what
Speaker 3: you're doing, your protect dance.
Speaker 4: You know. Evolutionarily speaking, you're welcome from us night owls
Speaker 4: to mourning people. And that's actually one major thing I
Speaker 4: work with parents on is often night owl parents suddenly
Speaker 4: find themselves needing to fake being a morning person right
Speaker 4: because their baby wakes up earlier. Their child wakes up early.
Speaker 4: So there are ways that you can actually kind of
Speaker 4: shift your chronotype, maybe not permanently, but at least do
Speaker 4: it in a way where you can function and not
Speaker 4: feel so bad.
Speaker 2: Doctor wru from your pet. What piece of advice is
Speaker 2: usually the hardest to fit into parents' lives.
Speaker 4: So I always say to people when your baby, who's
Speaker 4: no longer newborn but like an older baby, when they
Speaker 4: cry for you during their sleep time, walk don't run,
Speaker 4: because when you run to respond to them, you may
Speaker 4: actually be interrupting a natural process where they're figuring out
Speaker 4: how to self soothe. We can show them, we can
Speaker 4: co work with them, co regulate with them, but then
Speaker 4: they also need some opportunities to try on their own.
Speaker 4: So sometimes just by making this simple but really difficult
Speaker 4: change of walking instead of running to respond to them,
Speaker 4: parents are pleasantly surprised. They're like, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 4: did the walk not run thing, And turns out they
Speaker 4: just like fell back to sleep after a few cries.
Speaker 3: And also it calms you down, like just having you
Speaker 3: in my head. Like just if I could hear doctor Wu.
Speaker 1: Being like Katie, walk, don't run, it would like change
Speaker 1: eye energy, which I think is also very helpful. And Meg,
Speaker 1: how about you, what else do you suggest to help
Speaker 1: keep parents calm?
Speaker 5: Actually I was going to talk about habit stacking. You know,
Speaker 5: we've in new healthy habits that you can, you know,
Speaker 5: make a choice to spend a little more time in nature,
Speaker 5: you know, go take a height, have some gratitude practices,
Speaker 5: And I would just say that most of the time
Speaker 5: parents just need, you know, a hot shower, hot baths,
Speaker 5: some abs and salts and essential oils, some time to decompress,
Speaker 5: some self care.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, now she's talking your language, Katie.
Speaker 1: By the way, this is why my nighttime I do it.
Speaker 1: I'm a nighttime shower person. Yeah, and it's where I
Speaker 1: shower every night, but mostly because I have my smells,
Speaker 1: my sense, but it's I think it's where I decompress
Speaker 1: my thoughts, yeah, before I get into my bed.
Speaker 5: And you can also just rinse away all the energy
Speaker 5: from the day and have that cleansing and go into
Speaker 5: bed like fresh and clean, and you know, make sure
Speaker 5: that you're changing your sheets. Definitely, you want to have
Speaker 5: like clean bedding, fresh bedding.
Speaker 1: The self care really is like these these habit stackings
Speaker 1: of things to self care that make your sleep a
Speaker 1: priority throughout your child's life.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really about slowing down. I find even with
Speaker 5: the children that I'm working with, I come into these
Speaker 5: family dynamics and the parents are rushing them around to
Speaker 5: classes and activities and playing, and you know, their routines
Speaker 5: and their meal times, and they're doing all these things
Speaker 5: for the child. Sri Maria Montessori says this really well,
Speaker 5: like don't do anything for the child that the child
Speaker 5: is capable to do for themselves. So you're creating a
Speaker 5: way of life, a rhythm to connect with the child
Speaker 5: and get done what you need to get done and
Speaker 5: carve out time for self care and that really models
Speaker 5: to the child a healthy way of existing as well.
Speaker 3: I feel like I just got some self care by
Speaker 3: just listening to that.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, this has been a great conversation, Doctor Will. Before
Speaker 2: we go, let's get some practical advice. What is one
Speaker 2: piece of advice you would give to weary parents to
Speaker 2: help them get better sleep tonight.
Speaker 4: How about we do something during the day. So this
Speaker 4: is actually a two parter. The first part is you
Speaker 4: set aside fifteen minutes to do nothing but worry. Sure, yes,
Speaker 4: to worry on purpose. So all the stuff that's like
Speaker 4: nagging at you and your mind, all the stuff that
Speaker 4: you still haven't gotten done yet, all the annoying day
Speaker 4: to day things. Do that in a concentrat of fifteen minutes,
Speaker 4: like a sprint. Get it out of your system. Write
Speaker 4: down the things you can't forget, and then like write
Speaker 4: down the things that are actually not within your control,
Speaker 4: so you acknowledge, oh, I can't actually control this, so
Speaker 4: let me just worry about it now during this window,
Speaker 4: but then forget about it later. I call that a
Speaker 4: mental litter box. It's that you're teaching your mind, kitten,
Speaker 4: to pee in this one box instead of all over
Speaker 4: the house. Right, So you do that, teaching your mind, kitten, Katie.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: This is huge for me because I have a lot
Speaker 1: of those, you know, Sunday scaries or like nighttime anxiety,
Speaker 1: like for some reason, when everything gets quiet and dark
Speaker 1: is where my brain goes into hyperdrive.
Speaker 3: And I think you're right.
Speaker 1: I think it's because I don't allow myself to do
Speaker 1: it at all during the day.
Speaker 3: Mm hmmmm hmmm.
Speaker 1: So if I had a quiet fifteen minutes where I
Speaker 1: could just throw it all up or put it in
Speaker 1: the litter box exactly, then maybe it would be out.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And the other half of this that's really important is
Speaker 4: you want to be mindful outside of that window of time.
Speaker 4: So mindfulness just means being in the here and now.
Speaker 4: So just enjoy playing with your kid, or enjoy eating,
Speaker 4: enjoy walking, whatever it is you're actually doing in the moment,
Speaker 4: do that fully, and that actually helps you sleep better
Speaker 4: at night.
Speaker 2: Right, doctor Woo, What are the positive outcomes we can
Speaker 2: hope for when our kids have healthy sleep habits?
Speaker 4: Well, two answers for you. One short term is that
Speaker 4: whenever a baby gets better asleep and gets enough sleep,
Speaker 4: they are happier, they are healthier, they are learning things.
Speaker 4: And the long term, I think we are really gifting
Speaker 4: our children with the gift of setting up a good
Speaker 4: relationship with sleep right from the get go. I work
Speaker 4: with so many patients who are in their twenties or
Speaker 4: thirties or all throughout the adult lifespan, who say, you know,
Speaker 4: I was never a good sleeper as a kid.
Speaker 3: There was just like chaos.
Speaker 4: I never had a regular bedtime, or my mom always
Speaker 4: complained about me not being good sleeper. And now they're
Speaker 4: dealing with insomnia, they're dealing with, you know, all sorts
Speaker 4: of sleep problems, and I'm just thinking, Wow, I wish
Speaker 4: I could turn back time and help you be a.
Speaker 3: Good sleeper as a baby from the.
Speaker 4: Get go, because this relationship, healthy relationship with sleep is
Speaker 4: really a gift of a lifetime.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 1: That's it, that's the whole kit and kaboo mic drop.
Speaker 1: I am so grateful for learning that and being able
Speaker 1: to take it with me that sleep really is a
Speaker 1: gift of a lifetime. It's profound and important. And I'm
Speaker 1: just sitting here with endless amounts of thanks to both
Speaker 1: Meg from Infinite Connection and doctor Jade Wu for their
Speaker 1: insights on chasing sleep?
Speaker 2: Katie. Is this why we don't do double dates with
Speaker 2: non parents anymore?
Speaker 1: I mean, we learned a lot about ourselves today. Sure,
Speaker 1: huge thing I wish I had known. Mommy needs to
Speaker 1: go put away the melatone in that I definitely have
Speaker 1: in our kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, get rid of that melotone, and we don't
Speaker 2: know that's not over the counter stuff, and it might
Speaker 2: might not even be the right dosage.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, let it be clear.
Speaker 1: I do not give our children a melotone every night,
Speaker 1: but definitely when we travel and we're getting on a
Speaker 1: different sleep schedule, Like if we go to the East Coast,
Speaker 1: it is at our family and it's three hours later
Speaker 1: and they're all confused about what time it is. I
Speaker 1: don't want them waking up at four am, and I
Speaker 1: give the melatonin. But we learned today from doctor Wu
Speaker 1: that melatonin is a hormone dangerous to use, especially since
Speaker 1: dosages are not all the time accurate, and so really
Speaker 1: it is a conversation to be had with your pediatrician
Speaker 1: and your doctor.
Speaker 2: Oh and can we talk about the fact that teenagers
Speaker 2: should ideally be starting school later. Wait a minute. If
Speaker 2: that's science was around when I was a teenager, I
Speaker 2: would have gone to Yale, Katie, But I was a
Speaker 2: complete waste of space for the first two maybe three
Speaker 2: hours of high school. Every day you are.
Speaker 1: A night owl, and that is okay. Honestly, from this podcast,
Speaker 1: it sounded like doctor Wu was a little bit of
Speaker 1: a night owl.
Speaker 3: Herself and she's a doctor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh Katie, why do you get to schedule your
Speaker 2: worry time?
Speaker 3: Okay, my worry time today is going.
Speaker 1: To be between two thirty and three.
Speaker 3: Nice, I got a good thirty minutes worth.
Speaker 2: Train that mental kitty, Katie. I just wanted to say
Speaker 2: thank you to you for a great episode.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. You can also follow us.
Speaker 1: I'm kat q Low's on Instagram and Adam is Shabby
Speaker 1: Shapps on Instagram. And also we're going to be posting
Speaker 1: a ton about this podcast, so you can also leave comments.
Speaker 2: And I want to say thank you to our audience
Speaker 2: for listening and for them to tune in next week
Speaker 2: when we talk about sleep and aging, which I feel
Speaker 2: like is very connected to this episode, And don't forget
Speaker 2: to follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode
Speaker 2: and until next time, hope you're living your best while
Speaker 2: sleeping your best.
Speaker 1: Chasing Sleep is a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia
Speaker 1: in partnership with Mattress Firm.
Speaker 3: Our executive producer is Molly Soosha.
Speaker 2: This show was written and produced by Sound That Brands,
Speaker 2: Dave Beesing, Jason Jackson, and Michelle Rice.
Speaker 3: Chasing Sleep is hosted by Katie.
Speaker 2: Lows and Adam Shapiro.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our partners at Mattress Firm.