WEBVTT - Sleep and Parenting 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.560 Adam, do you remember when we brought our now five 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.039 year old home from the hospital? 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:12.040 No, I don't. Isn't it weird how you just you don't. 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.720 It's hard to remember these times. 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.480 I'm convinced you don't remember them because there is no sleeping, 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.320 This is true. Do you remember us struggling to get 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:24.720 Albi to sleep? Can you remember any of those nights? 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:26.560 That's the first time in your life that you're sort 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.360 of voluntarily getting out of bed five, six, seven times 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:34.239 a night, and then performing tasks you've never performed in 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:35.760 your life. You know what I mean. It's like you're 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.839 just wrapping your head around changing diapers and now you're 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:40.800 doing it half asleep, in the middle of the night, 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:44.400 in the dark, with a baby putting I would say 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.640 a little bit of pressure on you by screaming his 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:48.280 head off. 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.960 I'm convinced that this is the key sleep and parenthood 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:57.279 and sleep and family is the key to like happiness. 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:58.520 And especially if you're co parenting, you need to be 0:00:58.560 --> 0:00:59.280 on the same page. 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.480 Quality of sleep and sleep for all four of our 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.720 family unit with such a priority. And I think this 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.360 episode is going to be such a gift to parents 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.840 and families who are listening. Not only will we spend 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.120 some time talking about parenting and your kids sleep, but 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:19.399 we also are going to discuss. 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.960 The parent's sleep because that's super important too. 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:22.679 Absolutely. 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.120 Hey, it's Katie Low's and I'm Adam Shapiro and this. 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:30.360 Is Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.000 in partnership with Mattress Firm. 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:38.800 This is Nature's original alarm clock. Probably can't find this 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.520 as an option on your phone's alarm settings, but it 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.240 is certainly effective. There may not be a bigger disruption 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.640 in one sleep than a newborn baby. 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.560 Not only that, but how can parents prioritize and sleep 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.600 train themselves to get a good night's rest at any 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.840 stage of their child's life. Yes, today we are talking 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.480 to two great exps. Birds Meg who is the creator 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.280 of Infinite Connection formerly known as Miss Megan's Method, is 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.280 a pediatric sleep consultant who has helped a number of 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.040 families sleep train their children. And she's here with her 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.840 adorable four month old. Could this baby be cuter? She's 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.399 so cute. So if you hear a baby crying. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.040 And I'm so impressed that you're doing this with a 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:25.040 baby on your lap. Also, joining us is doctor Jade Wu, 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:30.120 a board certified behavioral sleep psychologist and researcher. She's passionate 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:34.240 about helping new parents overcome sleep challenges during pregnancy and 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.120 postpartum periods. Later this year, doctor Wu is also launching 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:42.480 good Night Mama, a resource and community dedicated to helping 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:47.160 pregnant and new moms sleep better and thrive during parenthood. Wow, 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:48.400 thank you for joining us. 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.560 We need to just give applause all around for the 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.160 work both of you are doing. 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:56.800 Doctor Wu. 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.880 You study sleep and you're already a parent of two 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:04.240 very young kids. What has your experience been like with 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:07.239 sleep since becoming a parent yourself? 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:09.440 Well, so, I have a three year old and a 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.560 one year old. I think one learning that I throughout 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.080 the window was this idea of perfection of if I 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.680 just go by the science, and if I go by 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.320 what should happen, and I try to perfect it as 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:26.160 much as possible, then things will be fine. But there's 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.000 actually no perfect when it comes to parenting, when it 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:34.400 comes to sleep, and even very good is rare and 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.960 always changing. Right, So your definition for what's very good 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.080 is different from one day to another, one week to another. 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:46.120 Because babies are rapidly changing. Their sleep needs are rapidly changing. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.040 Your own sleep needs are rapidly changing. Your own hormones 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.840 are changing postpartum. So there are just so many things 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:57.040 that are in the mix that it's almost impossible to 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:58.480 find the perfect algorithm. 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.800 Oh, I remember this feeling of like, Adam, do you 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.880 remember this. My kid would skip a nap and I 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.520 would feel like a failure and to look at the 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.520 bigger picture to say it's okay. 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.640 And also, I think when we impose a schedule like that, 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.839 we're actually doing the opposite of what's helpful. And really, 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:23.440 I think it's more about rhythms, not schedules. So instead 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.360 of calculating like, oh, she woke up at three point 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.960 thirty two pm, therefore her bedtime has to be seven 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.640 forty two pm, like down to the minute, that just 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.080 doesn't make sense. Then we're really just imposing arbitrary rules. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.600 If we go by rhythms of like, okay, we have sleepiness, 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.119 and then we have wakefulness, and we have sleepiness again, 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:46.560 let's follow the baby's cues. Let's generally have this ebb 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:47.839 and flow of the tide. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.600 Oh that's good to know, because if you're teaching the 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:52.480 child to do the same thing at the same time, 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.840 in the same order every day. How are they going 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:56.200 to be resilient and. 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.839 Flexible and adaptable? Sure, and exactly. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.240 Thank you Meg from me a mommy and all of 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.760 us out there. So you've met a lot of sleepy 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.080 moms and dads through the years. How would you describe 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:10.720 your method? 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.520 I would say that my method, like really is just 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:19.679 a holistic approach of helping the child learn to trust 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.839 in and of themselves in relation to sleep, in relation 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.880 to their sleep space, and then trust the caregivers that 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:26.920 they're interacting with. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.520 When we had our babies, our first priority was sleep smart. 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.640 You know, sleep is ultimately all about self regulation. I 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:37.160 feel like I'm a Google translate to baby speak, so 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.479 to speak, and I teach parents kind of this latter 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:45.400 concept that actually helps the child through coregulation to learn 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:46.400 how to self regulate. 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.760 One of our biggest struggles as new parents is figuring 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.400 out what to do when the baby is crying. How 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:53.839 do each of you approach this? 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.400 I mean, I don't use any crde out tactics, but 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.640 I don't want to avoid, suppress or pacify the child's emotions. 0:05:59.720 --> 0:05:59.960 Easy. 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:02.919 I teach a parent what a down cry sounds like, 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.839 because if the child is having a downcry or is 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.560 beginning to de escalate, like they are going the right 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:09.919 direction on their own. 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:14.120 Right, So communication is kind of just broad strokes at 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.520 the beginning of life, right, There's just basically a couple 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:18.880 of different types of cries that a baby can do 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:23.120 to communicate their needs. So I think sometimes in our 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.640 worst moments, we can feel like, oh, the baby is 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:29.400 crying again, getting like this is so frustrating, But you 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.440 know that this is the only way that the baby 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.479 has to communicate with us. So it's our job to 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:35.920 figure out why, or at least to go with the 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.000 flow and try our best to meet the baby where 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.279 she's at and also offer the boundaries that make for 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.880 healthy sleep and healthy you know everything else. 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:45.440 Right. 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.280 I remember when Adam and I were dealing with our 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.160 first and trying to get him to sleep, and he 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.880 was so much better at listening to crying and just 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.520 like having a sort of calm response to it, where 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.520 I like jump to deaf con or so quickly. Do 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.200 you find that sometimes moms have a much harder time 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.159 dealing with crying than someone who might. 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:11.080 Be a little bit more emotionally, how do we want 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:11.400 to say it? 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:18.080 Adam, stunted, detached, frozen inside. 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:21.600 You know, I think there is something about moms that 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.240 are just we're just hyper vigilant. Cries sound so aversive 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:28.240 to us because we are programmed to respond right away. 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.280 So that makes sense because evolutionarily speaking, if a baby 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.800 was left alone, it was either going to freeze to 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.160 death or get eaten by a tiger right back way 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:37.840 back in the day. 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.280 Yes, yeah, so you know, babies cry to call for 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.640 that sense of safety. They're very much anchored to their parent, 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:50.640 and it's about being able to like honor the child's 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:56.240 communications and listen underneath what they're telling you to you know, 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.680 address whatever those behaviors are, but also meet those needs. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.400 I think moms feel a lot of guilt too. Some 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:04.840 moms finally move the baby out, and they feel so 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.400 bad that they finally got a better connected few hours 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.600 because they're not waking up from every fart and burp 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.480 and rolling sound and gurgle, and it's like, you know. 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.560 I totally hear you about that guilt, and I've personally 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.600 felt that too, even though I know like the science 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.920 and the you know of how it works. I think 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:27.840 that's a little bit of mom guilt is maybe unavoidable. 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.560 But the reassurance I can offer is this. You know, 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.280 when you as a mom, when you are sleeping better, 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.040 you are able to be a better mom during the day. 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:38.079 Yeah. 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.240 I totally feel that way personally. I notice in my 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:42.800 day to day life on nights where I get a 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.840 better sleep, I'm a better mom. 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:45.439 Yeah. 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.000 So, okay, we have collected this list of things that 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.599 parents will use to help their children sleep. 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:54.439 And we want to run them by you for your opinion. Okay, 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:54.840 here we go. 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:59.960 First, one Meg putting on lullabies or soft music to commobate. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.600 I think that it can be helpful to use a 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.640 lullaby or music for a child because from a neurological standpoint, 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.720 they're connecting to sleep from awake with it. But it 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:15.760 shouldn't be something that they need all the time forever. 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:17.280 What about you, doctor Wu. 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.600 I use music to cueue the beginning of the bedtime routine, 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.600 but not for the baby to fall asleep. Great, because 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.800 whatever the baby needs at bedtime to fall asleep is 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:28.400 what they need to get back to sleep when they 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:30.240 wake up during the night. So you don't want to 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.679 be playing that song all night long, so you can 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:34.720 use it to cue the beginning of the wind down. 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:36.720 But oh wait, wait, what about the fact that you 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.480 want your kid to know that you have a good voice? 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:40.720 Do I do the whole second act of a musical 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.080 or do I just it's very important to me that 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:44.920 they know that you. 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.200 Know you can feel free. 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.840 What about white noise? We all in my household have 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.360 an addiction to this. Is that bad or good? 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:55.959 I think it's fine to use it throughout the night. 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.760 It's studies have shown it to be safe and effective. 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:01.000 And meg, what do you think? 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.200 I mean, I think as long as it's below like 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.280 fifty decibels and so it's not and it's not too 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.400 close to the child, then I think it's really a 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:10.320 personal preference. 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.560 But if you got trash trucks all morning. 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.160 Some of the deepest sleepers are in New York City 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.360 and they do not use white noise, And some of 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.679 the families use white noise to kind of make a 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.680 wall of sound and drown out the startling outside noises. 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.320 So I think it really is a personal preference, and 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:26.679 it depends on the situation. 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.000 I like that, all right. What about melatonin? 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.400 Never use melotonin without a doctor's guidance. 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:34.160 Good to know. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.000 It is not a sleep aid. 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:41.080 And it is not just a benign vitamin gummy that 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.400 your kid can take. It's a hormone and taking it 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.319 at the wrong time, at the wrong dose can backfire, 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.760 and it can also have other effects that we may 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.000 not be aware of for such a young person. 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:55.920 I completely agree with Jade. 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.559 Parents are giving melatonin to children as young as eighteen 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.800 months old. They don't understand that it's dangerous. 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:03.600 I had no idea. 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.640 I guess people feel such accessibility to it because it's 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.560 just over the count, like it has cute cartoons on it, 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:10.440 and it's over the counter. 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:11.160 Do you know what I mean? 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:14.560 Like, I'm thinking, right, that's actually a problem that's over 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.160 the counter. When it's over the counter, it's not FDA regulated, 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.120 And a study found that the dosage has been as 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.120 high as five times higher than what's advertised on the label. 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.120 So if you think you're giving a one milligram, you 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.160 don't want to overdose your kid on melatonin. Yeah. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.040 We're going to get into this on an upcoming episode 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.600 about sleep and supplements, But I got to tell you 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:36.640 this is shocking. 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:43.200 There's more Chasing Sleep In a moment, Welcome back to 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.640 Chasing Sleep, where Katie and Adam a couple of parents, 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:49.000 we're learning all about sleep and parenting from sleep scientists 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.720 doctor Jade Wu and Meg from Infinite Connection. 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.480 What age should kids be sleeping in their own room 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:58.160 and in their own beds? 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.440 I right away, Ah, this is a biggie. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.560 I mean, look, being that you are a doctor, is 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:05.880 there a recommended age? 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.640 So there's a couple of answers to this. I'll start 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:12.319 with the official answer from the American Academy of Pediatrics, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.480 and they recommend sleeping in the same room for six 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.720 months and then you can transition your baby to a 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:24.240 separate room after that. But in reality, there's a huge 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:30.280 range and cultural preferences in family ability to have separate 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:35.319 space and siblings and all sorts of different variations, So 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.600 it's really not set in stone like that. What I 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.960 tell my patients is think about the whole family system. 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:46.439 It's not just about what's technically recommended for the baby. 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.120 It's will you be able to sleep if the baby 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.160 is in the room with you? Will your partner be 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.240 able to sleep? Will your other kids be able to sleep? 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.880 So there are actually creative solutions we can do for 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:58.160 the whole family system. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.480 Interesting that idea about the whole family system. I wanted 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:05.199 to ask about the parents specifically because Katie and I 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.719 know firsthand how important it is for parents to get 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:09.840 the sleep that they need. So when we were doing 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.920 our homework for this episode, we dug into Mattress Firms 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:17.280 newly published Sleep Uncovered report about the effect of parenting 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.240 on sleep, and they surveyed more than fourteen hundred parents 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.040 and non parents and found that there's a big difference 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.240 between the two groups. Parents have to cram in a 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.200 lot of tasks before. 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.400 Bed, right, Katie, so many tasks, I mean before bed 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:36.360 there's bath and bedtime and books and brushing tea and 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.760 the different nighttime diper sal machine. 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.280 And then make sure you passage deserve next day. 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.280 Exactly a lot of tasks. Now, by the time we 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.560 get the kids down, that time before we had to 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.800 bed ourselves is the only chance we get to do 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:51.400 all the stuff that we weren't able to do during 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:53.480 the day. And that's paying bills, it's putting ourselves on 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:58.240 tape for three auditions, it's returning emails, it's exercising. 0:13:57.640 --> 0:13:59.920 Only Adam exercises at night. I do not do that. 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:01.720 I like a nighttime exercise. 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:03.080 Wow, I'm impressed. 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.640 Building on what Adam said, the Parenting Report found that 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.920 parents also carry a lot more of that mental burden, 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.760 especially before bed. It's like they're significantly more likely to 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.160 go to bed feeling stressed or angry or upset or nervous, 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.560 which Man, I can really relate to big time. So 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:23.880 I want to know what are your thoughts, like, do 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.320 parents sabotage their sleep with these habits? 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.320 Sadly not surprised to hear any of these findings. I 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.920 think there's a couple of things going on here. One 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.800 is you're right, Adam, that parents simply have more stuff 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.280 they got to get done. Or there's something called have 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:44.320 you heard of revenge bedtime procrastination? No, it's this concept 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:48.920 that originated in China where people are notoriously stressed out 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.600 with work and overworked. But the idea is you don't 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.880 get enough me time during the day to actually fulfill 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:00.520 your emotional and creative and spiritual needs, so you up 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.480 not going to bed so you can like almost like 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.880 resentfully use that time to finally catch up on shows. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.359 Yeah, this is what I'm doing, Katie. 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:10.920 You're like, I don't want to go to bed right 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.760 now because I didn't even have time to do something 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:13.320 I like to do. 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.840 I'm so angry that sometimes just to like not go 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.600 to sleep, I'll just be like, hence the revenge doing 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.000 all my stuff, you know, to really show how much 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.360 I still have my life in my things that are 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.920 just mine. But then, of course, inevitably I just end 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.600 up looking at pictures of my children from five years ago. 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:34.360 I know I do that too. 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.720 Yeah, So it's really tough for parents because we're always 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.440 juggling this emotional rollercoaster of like I love my kids, 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:43.400 there are a total pain in the butt, yes, you know. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:49.040 So we're holding so many emotions, holding so many responsibilities, 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.680 and holding so many tasks. It's like, do you ever 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.520 feel like your brain has like forty tabs open, like 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.800 like a browser tab, you know, just because there are 0:15:57.840 --> 0:15:59.880 so many tasks that you have to keep track of 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.440 and so many schedules to coordinate, and like it's like 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.520 running a small startup company. Right. 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.920 Yeah. I find most of the parents their head hits 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.480 the pillow and their their minds are spinning with anxiety 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.240 about parenting and you know, how to fit it all 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.160 in their day and how to manage their time, and 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.480 so you know that's that's definitely one side of it. 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.080 But I would say more often than not, when the 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.360 parents start sleeping, they come back to me like, uh, 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:26.760 we're pregnant again. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.160 So when you have all of that going on, your 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.840 brain is busy. Your brain is holding all this stuff. 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.320 It's not putting that stuff down, So it's much harder 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:39.640 to get good quality sleep. 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.640 Can we just talk about older kids and how sleeping 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:44.600 changes with older kids? Can you talk a little bit 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.320 about that, doctor Ruber, Like, you know, kids seven to ten, 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.560 that's what we're going about to run into, Katie. 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:50.040 Yeah. 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:50.360 Sure. 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.800 So, first of all, sleep does change very rapidly throughout childhood, 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.840 so the amount of sleep that child needs tends to decrease, 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:03.360 but also the timing too. So you've probably heard of chronotype, 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.680 that's your biologically hardwired preference for sleeping at a certain time. 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:12.600 Teenagers are night owls. Younger kids are mourning people. So 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.959 somewhere in the early adolescence puberty kind of window, the 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.359 chronotype of child will shift later. So that's something we 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.479 do need to remember because teenagers are going to school 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:28.040 way too early. It's backwards. The young kids are going 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.040 to school later and the teenagers are going to school 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.359 really early. It should be the other way around. Biologically, 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:39.080 teenagers are not able to get enough sleep and get 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.000 up at six am to go to school. That's just 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.800 literally not possible. So we have to start high schools later. 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.199 But younger kids can get up earlier and go to 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.399 school earlier, so they're fine. So that's one of the 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.800 biggest public health things we can and should do, like immediately. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.320 What the heck? California has already adopted this and other 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.200 places around the country too. 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.040 I had no idea. 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.000 Also, is it cool that my husband is still on 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.760 the whatever the teenager system is. 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.160 Yes, that's totally normal, Thank you, doctor Rue. 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:14.280 Think of it this way evolutionarily speaking, you know, if 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.960 everybody in the tribe fell asleep at the same time 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.280 and woke up at the same time, then everybody is 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:21.760 a snack. 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.359 Right, some of us have to stay up a little later, Katie, 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:25.560 protect the family from the. 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.520 Bears exactly, and be the night watchmen. Oh, that's what 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:29.960 you're doing, your protect dance. 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:36.399 You know. Evolutionarily speaking, you're welcome from us night owls 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.600 to mourning people. And that's actually one major thing I 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:43.640 work with parents on is often night owl parents suddenly 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.719 find themselves needing to fake being a morning person right 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.280 because their baby wakes up earlier. Their child wakes up early. 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.520 So there are ways that you can actually kind of 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.320 shift your chronotype, maybe not permanently, but at least do 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.800 it in a way where you can function and not 0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:58.600 feel so bad. 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.439 Doctor wru from your pet. What piece of advice is 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.080 usually the hardest to fit into parents' lives. 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.840 So I always say to people when your baby, who's 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.320 no longer newborn but like an older baby, when they 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:16.440 cry for you during their sleep time, walk don't run, 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.240 because when you run to respond to them, you may 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:24.040 actually be interrupting a natural process where they're figuring out 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.080 how to self soothe. We can show them, we can 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.879 co work with them, co regulate with them, but then 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.560 they also need some opportunities to try on their own. 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:37.320 So sometimes just by making this simple but really difficult 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.720 change of walking instead of running to respond to them, 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.840 parents are pleasantly surprised. They're like, oh my gosh, I 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.560 did the walk not run thing, And turns out they 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:48.920 just like fell back to sleep after a few cries. 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.600 And also it calms you down, like just having you 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.480 in my head. Like just if I could hear doctor Wu. 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.840 Being like Katie, walk, don't run, it would like change 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.640 eye energy, which I think is also very helpful. And Meg, 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.320 how about you, what else do you suggest to help 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:07.280 keep parents calm? 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:11.080