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Speaker 1: Adam, do you remember when we brought our now five

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Speaker 1: year old home from the hospital?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't. Isn't it weird how you just you don't.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to remember these times.

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Speaker 1: I'm convinced you don't remember them because there is no sleeping,

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Speaker 1: This is true. Do you remember us struggling to get

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Speaker 1: Albi to sleep? Can you remember any of those nights?

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Speaker 2: That's the first time in your life that you're sort

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Speaker 2: of voluntarily getting out of bed five, six, seven times

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Speaker 2: a night, and then performing tasks you've never performed in

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Speaker 2: your life. You know what I mean. It's like you're

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Speaker 2: just wrapping your head around changing diapers and now you're

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Speaker 2: doing it half asleep, in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 2: in the dark, with a baby putting I would say

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Speaker 2: a little bit of pressure on you by screaming his

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Speaker 2: head off.

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Speaker 1: I'm convinced that this is the key sleep and parenthood

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Speaker 1: and sleep and family is the key to like happiness.

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Speaker 2: And especially if you're co parenting, you need to be

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Speaker 2: on the same page.

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Speaker 1: Quality of sleep and sleep for all four of our

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Speaker 1: family unit with such a priority. And I think this

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Speaker 1: episode is going to be such a gift to parents

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Speaker 1: and families who are listening. Not only will we spend

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Speaker 1: some time talking about parenting and your kids sleep, but

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Speaker 1: we also are going to discuss.

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Speaker 3: The parent's sleep because that's super important too.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Hey, it's Katie Low's and I'm Adam Shapiro and this.

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Speaker 1: Is Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia

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Speaker 1: in partnership with Mattress Firm.

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Speaker 2: This is Nature's original alarm clock. Probably can't find this

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Speaker 2: as an option on your phone's alarm settings, but it

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Speaker 2: is certainly effective. There may not be a bigger disruption

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Speaker 2: in one sleep than a newborn baby.

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Speaker 1: Not only that, but how can parents prioritize and sleep

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Speaker 1: train themselves to get a good night's rest at any

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Speaker 1: stage of their child's life. Yes, today we are talking

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Speaker 1: to two great experts. Meg who is the creator of

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Speaker 1: Infinite Connection formerly known as Miss Megan's Method, is a

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Speaker 1: pediatric sleep consultant who has helped a number of families

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Speaker 1: sleep train their children. And she's here with her adorable

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Speaker 1: four month old. Could this baby be cuter? She's so cute.

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Speaker 1: So if you hear a baby crying.

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Speaker 2: And I'm so impressed that you're doing this with a

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Speaker 2: baby on your lap. Also joining US is doctor Jade Wu,

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Speaker 2: a board certified behavioral sleep psychologist and researcher. She's passionate

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Speaker 2: about helping new parents overcome sleep challenges during pregnancy and

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Speaker 2: postpartum periods. Later this year, doctor Wu is also launching

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Speaker 2: good Night Mama, a resource and community dedicated to helping

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Speaker 2: pregnant and new moms sleep better and thrive during parenthood. Wow,

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Speaker 2: thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 1: We need to just give applause all around for the

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Speaker 1: work both of you are doing, doctor Wu. You study

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Speaker 1: sleep and you're already a parent of two very young kids.

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Speaker 1: What has your experience been like with sleep since becoming

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Speaker 1: a parent yourself?

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Speaker 4: Well, so I have a three year old and a

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Speaker 4: one year old. I think one learning that I throughout

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Speaker 4: the window was this idea of perfection of if I

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Speaker 4: just go by the science, and if I go by

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Speaker 4: what should happen, and I try to perfect it as

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Speaker 4: much as possible, then things will be fine. But there's

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Speaker 4: actually no perfect when it comes to parenting, when it

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Speaker 4: comes to sleep, and even very good is rare and

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Speaker 4: always changing. Right, So your definition for what's very good

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Speaker 4: is different from one day to another, one week to another.

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Speaker 4: Because babies are rapidly changing. Their sleep needs are rapidly changing.

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Speaker 4: Your own sleep needs are rapidly changing. Your own hormones

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Speaker 4: are changing postpartum. So there are just so many things

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Speaker 4: that are in the mix that it's almost impossible to

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Speaker 4: find the perfect algorithm.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I remember this feeling of like, Adam, do you

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Speaker 1: remember this. My kid would skip a nap and I

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Speaker 1: would feel like a failure and to look at the

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Speaker 1: bigger picture to say it's okay.

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Speaker 4: And also, I think when we impose a schedule like that,

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Speaker 4: we're actually doing the opposite of what's helpful. And really,

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Speaker 4: I think it's more about rhythms, not schedules. So instead

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Speaker 4: of calculating like, oh, she woke up at three point

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Speaker 4: thirty two pm, therefore her bedtime has to be seven

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Speaker 4: forty two pm, like down to the minute, that just

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Speaker 4: doesn't make sense. Then we're really just imposing arbitrary rules.

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Speaker 4: If we go by rhythms of like, okay, we have sleepiness,

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Speaker 4: and then we have wakefulness, and we have sleepiness again,

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Speaker 4: let's follow the baby's cues. Let's generally have this ebb

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Speaker 4: and flow of the tide.

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Speaker 5: Oh that's good to know, because if you're teaching the

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Speaker 5: child to do the same thing at the same time,

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Speaker 5: in the same order every day. How are they going

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Speaker 5: to be resilient and flexible and adaptable? Sure, and exactly.

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Speaker 1: Thank you Meg from me a mommy and all of

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Speaker 1: us out there. So you've met a lot of sleepy

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Speaker 1: moms and dads through the years. How would you describe

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Speaker 1: your method?

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Speaker 5: I would say that my method, like really is just

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Speaker 5: a holistic approach of helping the child learn to trust

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Speaker 5: in and of themselves in relation to sleep, in relation

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Speaker 5: to their sleep space, and then trust the caregivers that

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Speaker 5: they're interacting with.

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Speaker 2: When we had our babies, our first priority was sleep smart.

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Speaker 5: You know, sleep is ultimately all about self regulation. I

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Speaker 5: feel like I'm a Google translate to baby speak, so

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Speaker 5: to speak, and I teach parents kind of this latter

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Speaker 5: concept that actually helps the child through coregulation to learn

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Speaker 5: how to self regulate.

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Speaker 2: One of our biggest struggles as new parents is figuring

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Speaker 2: out what to do when the baby is crying. How

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Speaker 2: do each of you approach this?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I don't use any crde out tactics, but

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Speaker 5: I don't want to avoid, suppress or pacify the child's emotions.

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Speaker 2: Easy.

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Speaker 5: I teach a parent what a down cry sounds like,

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Speaker 5: because if the child is having a downcry or is

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Speaker 5: beginning to de escalate, like they are going the right

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Speaker 5: direction on their.

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Speaker 4: Own, right, So communication is kind of just broad strokes

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Speaker 4: at the beginning of life, right, There's just basically a

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Speaker 4: couple of different types of cries that a baby can

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Speaker 4: do to communicate their needs. So I think sometimes in

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Speaker 4: our worst moments, we can feel like, oh, the baby

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Speaker 4: is crying again, getting like this is so frustrating, But

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Speaker 4: you know, this is the only way that the baby

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Speaker 4: has to communicate with us. So it's our job to

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Speaker 4: figure out why, or at least to go with the

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Speaker 4: flow and try our best to meet the baby where

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Speaker 4: she's at and also offer the boundaries that make for

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Speaker 4: healthy sleep and healthy you know everything else.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: I remember when Adam and I were dealing with our

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Speaker 1: first and trying to get him to sleep, and he

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Speaker 1: was so much better at listening to crying and just

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Speaker 1: like having a sort of calm response to it, where

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Speaker 1: I like jump to deaf con or so quickly. Do

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Speaker 1: you find that sometimes moms have a much harder time

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Speaker 1: dealing with crying than someone who might.

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Speaker 3: Be a little bit more emotionally, how do we want

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Speaker 3: to say it?

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Speaker 2: Adam, stunted, detached, frozen inside.

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Speaker 4: You know, I think there is something about moms that

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Speaker 4: are just we're just hyper vigilant. Cries sound so aversive

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Speaker 4: to us because we are programmed to respond right away.

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Speaker 4: So that makes sense because evolutionarily speaking, if a baby

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Speaker 4: was left alone, it was either going to freeze to

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Speaker 4: death or get eaten by a tiger right back way

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Speaker 4: back in the day.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, so you know, babies cry to call for

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Speaker 5: that sense of safety. They're very much anchored to their parent,

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Speaker 5: and it's about being able to like honor the child's

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Speaker 5: communications and listen underneath what they're telling you to you know,

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Speaker 5: address whatever those behaviors are, but also meet those needs.

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Speaker 1: I think moms feel a lot of guilt too. Some

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Speaker 1: moms finally move the baby out, and they feel so

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Speaker 1: bad that they finally got a better connected few hours

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Speaker 1: because they're not waking up from every fart and burp

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Speaker 1: and rolling sound and gurgle, and it's like, you know.

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Speaker 4: I totally hear you about that guilt, and I've personally

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Speaker 4: felt that too, even though I know like the science

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Speaker 4: and the you know of how it works. I think

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Speaker 4: that's a little bit of mom guilt is maybe unavoidable.

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Speaker 4: But the reassurance I can offer is this. You know,

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Speaker 4: when you as a mom, when you are sleeping better,

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Speaker 4: you are able to be a better mom during the day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I totally feel that way personally. I notice in my

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Speaker 1: day to day life on nights where I get a

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Speaker 1: better sleep, I'm a better mom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, okay, we have collected this list of things that

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Speaker 1: parents will use to help their children sleep and we

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Speaker 1: want to run them by you for your opinion. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here we go. First, one Meg putting on lullabies or

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Speaker 1: soft music to commobate.

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Speaker 5: I think that it can be helpful to use a

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Speaker 5: lullaby or music for a child because from a neurological standpoint,

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Speaker 5: they're connecting to sleep from awake with it. But it

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Speaker 5: shouldn't be something that they need all the time forever.

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Speaker 3: What about you, doctor Wu.

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Speaker 4: I use music to cueue the beginning of the bedtime routine,

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Speaker 4: but not for the baby to fall asleep. Great, because

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Speaker 4: whatever the baby needs at bedtime to fall asleep is

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Speaker 4: what they need to get back to sleep when they

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Speaker 4: wake up during the night. So you don't want to

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Speaker 4: be playing that song all night long, so you can

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Speaker 4: use it to cue the beginning of the wind down.

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Speaker 2: But oh wait, wait, what about the fact that you

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Speaker 2: want your kid to know that you have a good voice?

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Speaker 2: Do I do the whole second act of a musical

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Speaker 2: or do I just it's very important to me that

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Speaker 2: they know that you.

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Speaker 3: Know you can feel free.

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Speaker 1: What about white noise? We all in my household have

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Speaker 1: an addiction to this. Is that bad or good?

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Speaker 4: I think it's fine to use it throughout the night.

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Speaker 4: It's studies have shown it to be safe and effective.

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Speaker 3: And meg, what do you think?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think as long as it's below like

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Speaker 5: fifty decibels and so it's not and it's not too

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Speaker 5: close to the child, then I think it's really a

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Speaker 5: personal preference.

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Speaker 2: But if you got trash trucks all morning.

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Speaker 5: Some of the deepest sleepers are in New York City

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Speaker 5: and they do not use white noise, And some of

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Speaker 5: the families use white noise to kind of make a

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Speaker 5: wall of sound and drown out the startling outside noises.

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Speaker 5: So I think it really is a personal preference, and

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Speaker 5: it depends on the situation.

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Speaker 2: I like that, all right. What about melatonin?

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Speaker 4: Never use melotonin without a doctor's guidance.

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Speaker 2: Good to know.

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Speaker 4: It is not a sleep aid, and it is not

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Speaker 4: just a benign vitamin gummy that your kid can take.

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Speaker 4: It's a hormone and taking it at the wrong time,

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Speaker 4: at the wrong dose can backfire, and it can also

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Speaker 4: have other effects that we may not be aware of

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Speaker 4: for such a young person.

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Speaker 3: I completely agree with Jade.

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Speaker 5: Parents are giving melatonin to children as young as eighteen

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Speaker 5: months old. They don't understand that it's dangerous.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea.

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Speaker 1: I guess people feel such accessibility to it because it's

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Speaker 1: just over the count, like it has cute cartoons on it,

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Speaker 1: and it's over the counter.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Like, I'm thinking, right, that's actually a problem that's over

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Speaker 4: the counter. When it's over the counter, it's not FDA regulated,

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Speaker 4: And a study found that the dosage has been as

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Speaker 4: high as five times higher than what's advertised on the label.

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Speaker 4: So if you think you're giving a one milligram, you

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Speaker 4: don't want to overdose your kid on melatonin. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We're going to get into this on an upcoming episode

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Speaker 1: about sleep and supplements, But I got to tell you

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Speaker 1: this is shocking.

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Speaker 2: There's more Chasing Sleep In a moment, Welcome back to

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Speaker 2: Chasing Sleep, where Katie and Adam a couple of parents,

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Speaker 2: we're learning all about sleep and parenting from sleep scientists

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Speaker 2: doctor Jade Wu and Meg from Infinite Connection.

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Speaker 1: What age should kids be sleeping in their own room

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Speaker 1: and in their own beds?

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Speaker 3: I right away, Ah, this is a big eie.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, being that you are a doctor, is

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Speaker 1: there a recommended age?

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Speaker 4: So there's a couple of answers to this. I'll start

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Speaker 4: with the official answer from the American Academy of Pediatrics,

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Speaker 4: and they recommend sleeping in the same room for six

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Speaker 4: months and then you can transition your baby to a

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Speaker 4: separate room after that. But in reality, there's a huge

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Speaker 4: range and cultural preferences in family ability to have separate

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Speaker 4: space and siblings and all sorts of different variations, So

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Speaker 4: it's really not set in stone like that. What I

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Speaker 4: tell my patients is think about the whole family system.

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Speaker 4: It's not just about what's technically recommended for the baby.

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Speaker 4: It's will you be able to sleep if the baby

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Speaker 4: is in the room with you? Will your partner be

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Speaker 4: able to sleep? Will your other kids be able to sleep?

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Speaker 4: So there are actually creative solutions we can do for

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Speaker 4: the whole family system.

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Speaker 2: Interesting that idea about the whole family system. I wanted

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Speaker 2: to ask about the parents specifically because Katie and I

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Speaker 2: know firsthand how important it is for parents to get

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Speaker 2: the sleep that they need. So when we were doing

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Speaker 2: our homework for this episode, we dug into Mattress Firms

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Speaker 2: newly published Sleep Uncovered report about the effect of parenting

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Speaker 2: on sleep, and they surveyed more than fourteen hundred parents

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Speaker 2: and non parents and found that there's a big difference

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Speaker 2: between the two groups. Parents have to cram in a

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Speaker 2: lot of tasks before.

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Speaker 1: Bed, right, Katie, so many tasks, I mean before bed

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Speaker 1: there's bath and bedtime and books and brushing tea and

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Speaker 1: the different nighttime diper sal machine and then make sure

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Speaker 1: you passage deserve next day exactly a lot of tasks.

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Speaker 2: Now, by the time we get the kids down, that

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Speaker 2: time before we had to bed ourselves is the only

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Speaker 2: chance we get to do all the stuff that we

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Speaker 2: weren't able to do during the day. And that's paying bills,

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Speaker 2: it's putting ourselves on tape for three auditions, it's returning emails,

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Speaker 2: it's exercising.

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Speaker 3: Only Adam exercises at night. I do not do that.

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Speaker 2: I like a nighttime exercise.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I'm impressed.

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Speaker 1: Building on what Adam said, the Parenting Report found that

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Speaker 1: parents also carry a lot more of that mental burden,

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Speaker 1: especially before bed. It's like they're significantly more likely to

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Speaker 1: go to bed feeling stressed or angry or upset or nervous,

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Speaker 1: which man, I can really relate to big time. So

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Speaker 1: I want to know what are your thoughts, like, do

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Speaker 1: parents sabotage their sleep with these habits?

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Speaker 4: Sadly not surprised to hear any of these findings. I

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Speaker 4: think there's a couple of things going on here. One

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Speaker 4: is you're right, Adam, that parents simply have more stuff

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Speaker 4: they got to get done. Or there's something called have

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Speaker 4: you heard of revenge bedtime procrastination? No, it's this concept

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Speaker 4: that originated in China where people are notoriously stressed out

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Speaker 4: with work and overworked. But the idea is you don't

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Speaker 4: get enough me time during the day to actually fulfill

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Speaker 4: your emotional and creative and spiritual needs, so up not

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Speaker 4: going to bed so you can like almost like resentfully

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Speaker 4: use that time to finally catch up on shows.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is what I'm doing Katie.

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Speaker 2: You're like, I don't want to go to bed right

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Speaker 2: now because I didn't even have time to do something

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Speaker 2: I like to do.

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Speaker 1: I'm so angry that sometimes just to like not go

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Speaker 1: to sleep, I'll just be like, hence the revenge doing

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Speaker 1: all my stuff, you know, to really show how much

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Speaker 1: I still have my life in my things that are

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Speaker 1: just mine. But then, of course, inevitably I just end

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Speaker 1: up looking at pictures of my children from five years ago.

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Speaker 3: I know I do that too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's really tough for parents because we're always

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Speaker 4: juggling this emotional rollercoaster of like I love my kids,

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Speaker 4: there are a total pain in the butt, yes, you know.

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Speaker 4: So we're holding so many emotions, holding so many responsibilities,

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Speaker 4: and holding so many tasks. It's like, do you ever

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Speaker 4: feel like your brain has like forty tabs open, like

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Speaker 4: like a browser tab, you know, just because there are

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Speaker 4: so many tasks that you have to keep track of

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Speaker 4: and so many schedules to coordinate, and like it's like

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Speaker 4: running a small startup company, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. I find most of the parents their head hits

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Speaker 5: the pillow and their their minds are spinning with anxiety

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Speaker 5: about parenting. And you know, how to fit it all

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Speaker 5: in their day and how to manage their time, and

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Speaker 5: so you know that's that's definitely one side of it.

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Speaker 5: But I would say more often than not, when the

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Speaker 5: parents start sleeping, they come back to me like, uh,

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Speaker 5: we're pregnant again.

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Speaker 4: So when you have all of that going on, your

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Speaker 4: brain is busy. Your brain is holding all this stuff.

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Speaker 4: It's not putting that stuff down, So it's much harder

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Speaker 4: to get good quality sleep.

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Speaker 2: Can we just talk about older kids and how sleeping

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Speaker 2: changes with older kids? Can you talk a little bit

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Speaker 2: about that, doctor Ruber, like, you know, kids seven to ten,

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Speaker 2: that's what we're going about to run into, Katie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 4: So, first of all, sleep does change very rapidly throughout childhood,

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Speaker 4: so the amount of sleep that child needs tends to decrease,

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Speaker 4: but also the timing too. So you've probably heard of chronotype,

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Speaker 4: that's your biologically hardwired preference for sleeping at a certain time.

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Speaker 4: Teenagers are night owls. Younger kids are mourning people. So

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Speaker 4: somewhere in the early adolescence puberty kind of window, the

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Speaker 4: chronotype of child will shift later. So that's something we

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Speaker 4: do need to remember because teenagers are going to school

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Speaker 4: way too early. It's backwards. The young kids are going

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Speaker 4: to school later and the teenagers are going to school

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Speaker 4: really early. It should be the other way around. Biologically,

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Speaker 4: teenagers are not able to get enough sleep and get

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Speaker 4: up at six am to go to school. That's just

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Speaker 4: literally not possible. So we have to start high schools later.

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Speaker 4: But younger kids can get up earlier and go to

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Speaker 4: school earlier, so they're fine. So that's one of the

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Speaker 4: biggest public health things we can and should do, like immediately.

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Speaker 4: What the heck? California has already adopted this and other

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Speaker 4: places around the country too.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea.

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Speaker 1: Also, is it cool that my husband is still on

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Speaker 1: the whatever the teenager system is.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's totally normal, Thank you, doctor Rue.

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Speaker 4: Think of it this way evolutionarily speaking, you know, if

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Speaker 4: everybody in the tribe fell asleep at the same time

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Speaker 4: and woke up at the same time, then everybody is

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Speaker 4: a snack.

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Speaker 2: Right, some of us have to stay up a little later, Katie,

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Speaker 2: protect the family from the.

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Speaker 3: Bears exactly, and be the night watchmen. Oh that's what

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Speaker 3: you're doing, your protect dance.

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Speaker 4: You know. Evolutionarily speaking, you're welcome from us night owls

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Speaker 4: to mourning people. And that's actually one major thing I

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Speaker 4: work with parents on is often night owl parents suddenly

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Speaker 4: find themselves needing to fake being a morning person right

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Speaker 4: because their baby wakes up earlier. Their child wakes up early.

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Speaker 4: So there are ways that you can actually kind of

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Speaker 4: shift your chronotype, maybe not permanently, but at least do

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Speaker 4: it in a way where you can function and not

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Speaker 4: feel so bad.

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Speaker 2: Doctor wru from your pet. What piece of advice is

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Speaker 2: usually the hardest to fit into parents' lives.

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Speaker 4: So I always say to people when your baby, who's

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Speaker 4: no longer newborn but like an older baby, when they

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Speaker 4: cry for you during their sleep time, walk don't run,

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Speaker 4: because when you run to respond to them, you may

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Speaker 4: actually be interrupting a natural process where they're figuring out

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Speaker 4: how to self soothe. We can show them, we can

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Speaker 4: co work with them, co regulate with them, but then

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Speaker 4: they also need some opportunities to try on their own.

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Speaker 4: So sometimes just by making this simple but really difficult

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Speaker 4: change of walking instead of running to respond to them,

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Speaker 4: parents are pleasantly surprised. They're like, oh my gosh, I

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Speaker 4: did the walk not run thing, And turns out they

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Speaker 4: just like fell back to sleep. After a few cries.

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Speaker 3: And also it calms you down, like just having you

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Speaker 3: in my head. Like just if I could hear doctor Wu.

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Speaker 1: Being like Katie, walk, don't run, it would like change

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Speaker 1: eye energy, which I think is also very helpful. And Meg,

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Speaker 1: how about you, what else do you suggest to help

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Speaker 1: keep parents calm?

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Speaker 5: Actually I was going to talk about habit stacking. You know,

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Speaker 5: we've in new healthy habits that you can, you know,

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Speaker 5: make a choice to spend a little more time in nature,

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Speaker 5: you know, go take a height, have some gratitude practices,

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Speaker 5: And I would just say that most of the time

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Speaker 5: parents just need you know, a hot shower, hot baths,

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Speaker 5: some abs and salts and essential oils, some time to decompress,

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Speaker 5: some self care.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, now she's talking your language. Katie.

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Speaker 1: By the way, this is why my nighttime I do it.

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Speaker 1: I'm a nighttime shower person. Yeah, and it's where I

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Speaker 1: shower every night, but mostly because I have my smells,

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Speaker 1: my sense, but it's I think it's where I decompress

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Speaker 1: my thoughts, yeah, before I get into my bed.

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Speaker 5: And you can also just rinse away all the energy

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Speaker 5: from the day and have that cleansing and go into

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Speaker 5: bed like fresh and clean and you know, make sure

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Speaker 5: that you're changing your sheets. Definitely, you want to have

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Speaker 5: like clean bedding, fresh bedding.

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Speaker 1: The self care really is like these these habit stackings

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Speaker 1: of things to self care that make your sleep a

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Speaker 1: priority throughout your child's life.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really about slowing down. I find even with

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Speaker 5: the children that I'm working with, I come into these

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Speaker 5: family dynamics and the parents are rushing them around to

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Speaker 5: classes and activities and playing and you know, their routines

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Speaker 5: and their meal times, and they're doing all these things

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Speaker 5: for the child. Story Maria Montessori says this really well, like,

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Speaker 5: don't do anything for the child that the child is

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Speaker 5: capable to do for themselves. So you're creating a way

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Speaker 5: of life, a rhythm to connect with the child and

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Speaker 5: get done what you need to get done, and carve

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Speaker 5: out time for self care and that really models to

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Speaker 5: the child a healthy way of existing as well.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I just got some self care by

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Speaker 3: just listening to that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, this has been a great conversation, Doctor Will. Before

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Speaker 2: we go, let's get some practical advice. What is one

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Speaker 2: piece of advice you would give to weary parents to

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Speaker 2: help them get better sleep?

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Speaker 4: Tonight, how about we do something during the day. So

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Speaker 4: this is actually a two parter. The first part is

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Speaker 4: you set aside fifteen minutes to do nothing but worry. Sure, yes,

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Speaker 4: to worry on purpose. So all the stuff that's like

443
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 4: nagging at you and your mind, all the stuff that

444
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 4: you still haven't gotten done yet, all the annoying day

445
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 4: to day things. Do that in a concentrat of fifteen minutes,

446
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 4: like a sprint. Get it out of your system. Write

447
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 4: down the things you can't forget, and then like write

448
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 4: down the things that are actually not within your control,

449
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 4: so you acknowledge, oh, I can't actually control this, so

450
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 4: let me just worry about it now during this window,

451
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 4: but then forget about it later. I call that a

452
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 4: mental litter box. It's that you're teaching your mind, kitten,

453
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 4: to pee in this one box instead of all over

454
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 4: the house. Right, So you do that, teaching your mind, kitten, Katie.

455
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 2: I love that.

456
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 1: This is huge for me because I have a lot

457
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 1: of those, you know, Sunday scaries or like nighttime anxiety,

458
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: like for some reason, when everything gets quiet and dark

459
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: is where my brain goes into hyperdrive.

460
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 3: And I think you're right.

461
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,479
Speaker 1: I think it's because I don't allow myself to do

462
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 1: it at all during the day.

463
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 3: Mm hmmmm hmmm.

464
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 1: So if I had a quiet fifteen minutes where I

465
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: could just throw it all up or put it in

466
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: the litter box exactly, then maybe it would be out.

467
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

468
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 4: And the other half of this that's really important is

469
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 4: you want to be mindful outside of that window of time.

470
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 4: So mindfulness just means being in the here and now.

471
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 4: So just enjoy playing with your kid, or enjoy eating,

472
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 4: enjoy walking, whatever it is you're actually doing in the moment,

473
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 4: do that fully, and that actually helps you sleep better

474
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 4: at night.

475
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 2: Right, doctor Woo, What are the positive outcomes we can

476
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: hope for when our kids have healthy sleep habits?

477
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 4: Well, two answers for you. One short term is that

478
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 4: whenever a baby gets better asleep and gets enough sleep,

479
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 4: they are happier, they are healthier, they are learning things.

480
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 4: And the long term, I think we are really gifting

481
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 4: our children with the gift of setting up a good

482
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 4: relationship with sleep right from the get go. I work

483
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 4: with so many patients who are in their twenties or

484
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 4: thirties or all throughout the adult lifespan who say, you know,

485
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 4: I was never a good sleeper as a kid, there

486
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 4: was just like chaos. I never had a regular bedtime,

487
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 4: or my mom always complained about me not being good sleeper.

488
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 4: And now they're dealing with insomnia, they're dealing with, you know,

489
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 4: all sorts of sleep problems, and I'm just thinking, Wow,

490
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 4: I wish I could turn back time and help you

491
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 4: be a.

492
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 3: Good sleeper as a baby from the.

493
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 4: Get go, because this relationship, healthy relationship with sleep is

494
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 4: really a gift of a lifetime.

495
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 3: That's it.

496
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: That's it, that's the whole kit and kaboo mic drop.

497
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: I am so grateful for learning that and being able

498
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: to take it with me that sleep really is a

499
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: gift of a lifetime. It's profound and important. And I'm

500
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: just sitting here with endless amounts of thanks to both

501
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: Meg from Infinite Connection and doctor Jade Wu for their

502
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: insights on chasing sleep?

503
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: Katie. Is this why we don't do double dates with

504
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 2: non parents anymore?

505
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: I mean, we learned a lot about ourselves today. Sure,

506
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: huge thing I wish I had known. Mommy needs to

507
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: go put away the melatone in that I definitely have

508
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: in our kids.

509
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, get rid of that melotone and we don't know.

510
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: That's not over the counter stuff, and it might might

511
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: not even be the right dosage.

512
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 3: I mean, look, let it be clear.

513
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,719
Speaker 1: I do not give our children a melotone every night,

514
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: but definitely when we travel and we're getting on a

515
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: different sleep schedule, Like if we go to the East Coast,

516
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: it is at our family and it's three hours later

517
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: and they're all confused about what time it is. I

518
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: don't want them waking up at four am, and I

519
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: give the melatonin. But we learned today from doctor Wu

520
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: that melatonin is a hormone dangerous to use, especially since

521
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: dosages are not all the time accurate, and so really

522
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: it is a conversation to be had with your pediatrician

523
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: and your doctor.

524
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: Oh and can we talk about the fact that teenagers

525
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: should ideally be starting school later. Wait a minute, If

526
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 2: that's science was around when I was a teenager, I

527
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 2: would have gone to Yale, Katie, but I was a

528
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 2: complete waste of space for the first two maybe three

529
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: hours of high school. Every day you are.

530
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: A night owl, and that is okay.

531
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: Honestly, from this podcast, it sounded like doctor Wu was

532
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: a little bit of a night owl herself, and she's

533
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: a doctor.

534
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh Katie, why do you get to schedule your

535
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: worry time?

536
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 3: Okay, my worry time today is going.

537
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: To be between two thirty and three.

538
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 3: Nice, I got a good thirty minutes worth.

539
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: Train that mental kitty, Katie. I just wanted to say

540
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 2: thank you to you for a great episode.

541
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. You can also follow us.

542
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 1: I'm kat q Low's on Instagram and Adam is Shabby

543
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 1: Shapps on Instagram. And also we're going to be posting

544
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: a ton about this podcast, so you can also leave comments.

545
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 2: And I want to say thank you to our audience

546
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: for listening and for them to tune in next week

547
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 2: when we talk about sleep and aging, which I feel

548
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 2: like is very connected to this episode, And don't forget

549
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 2: to follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode

550
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: and until next time, hope you're living your best while

551
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: sleeping your best.

552
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: Chasing Sleep is a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia

553
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: in partnership with Mattress Firm.

554
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 3: Our executive producer is Molly Soosha.

555
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: This show was written and produced by Sound That Brands,

556
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 2: Dave Beesing, Jason Jackson, and Michelle Rice.

557
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 3: Chasing Sleep is hosted by Katie.

558
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: Lows and Adam Shapiro.

559
00:27:53,760 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: Thank you to our partners at Mattress Firm M