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Speaker 1: The Volume.

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Speaker 2: Jenkins and Jones is brought to you by FanDuel. It's

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Speaker 2: never been easier to play fantasy on FanDuel. Whether you

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Speaker 2: love basketball, golf, soccer, or any other fantasy sport. There's

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Speaker 2: a contest for every fan FanDuel more ways to win.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Jenkins and Jones on the Volume podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: It is Thursday, September twenty third, and we actually have

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Speaker 2: some basketball to talk about here on the Jenkins and Jones.

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Speaker 3: Show, if you can believe it.

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Speaker 2: We're also reading the next three chapters of How the

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Speaker 2: Word Is Passed by Clint Smith, which is our second

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Speaker 2: book club pick, and we will talk about some other

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Speaker 2: fun things as well. First of all, it's Thursday. We

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Speaker 2: do tenable Untenable, and I would say, I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: nothing for a dude like me, but I have a

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Speaker 2: viral tweet going around just like my good friend Dragonfly

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Speaker 2: Jones aka Tyler, and that's both tenable and untenable. Tyler,

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Speaker 2: it's garbage, bro. I don't know why motherfuckers want to

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Speaker 2: go viral.

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Speaker 3: Dude like that.

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Speaker 4: Motherfucking mute this conversation option is my best fucking friend

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Speaker 4: on that app.

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Speaker 2: My other good buddy Lejetro Jenkins aka John is also

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Speaker 2: a viral tweet factory, and yeah, it is kind of

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Speaker 2: it renders the app unusable. Basically, it's kind of weird

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Speaker 2: that like, if you quote unquote succeed at using Twitter,

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Speaker 2: it basically shuts down.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: If you did t swear the quote unquote right way,

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Speaker 4: you have like created a personal hell for yourself basically.

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Speaker 2: Right, Like if you go to the batting cages and

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Speaker 2: you hit three in a row, the guy just comes

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Speaker 2: and gives you the hook, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: He's just like, great, way to go.

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Speaker 3: You're not allowed to be here anymore.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, man, all right, let's talk about Ben Simmons.

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Speaker 2: He's speaking of doing things the right way. Ben Simmons, Uh,

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Speaker 2: the Sixers said. The Sixers head coach said in a

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Speaker 2: fucking fresh conference. Yeah, I don't know what we're supposed

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Speaker 2: to do with this guy. Basically, after they lost in

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Speaker 2: the playoffs, they're trying to trade him. Ben Simmons said,

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Speaker 2: all right, bet trade me. I'm not coming back to

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Speaker 2: play for you. And uh. It has engendered response on

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Speaker 2: the internet. John, how do you feel about Ben Simmons?

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Speaker 1: I feel like Ben Simmons is doing what normal humans.

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Speaker 3: Would do in that situation.

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Speaker 1: Somebody says they don't want you there, and you don't

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Speaker 1: and you agree, and then they try to go back

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Speaker 1: on that shit. What's weird to me is like how

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Speaker 1: everybody on the planet is pointing at Doc, like you

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Speaker 1: see what this motherfucker did, right, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: And nobody in the organization is you know, it's like, what,

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Speaker 1: like theyn't they don't see any of it?

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Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Like the motherfucker got in front of the whole world

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Speaker 1: and said, I don't know if we could win with

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Speaker 1: this motherfucker, you know what I'm saying, And you think

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Speaker 1: he would want to come back, Like that's not a

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Speaker 1: weird thing to do, Like that player would want to

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Speaker 1: play for that player, and it's weird that he doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to play for Doc, Like what the fuck are

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Speaker 1: you talking about? You know what I'm saying, Like, I

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Speaker 1: think it's odd how everybody sees how weird the situation

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Speaker 1: is with Doc other than the people in that organization.

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Speaker 1: That's and also if we're talking, if we're being honest,

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Speaker 1: there's no reason that Ben should have even have been

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Speaker 1: in that fucking situation and when he had to, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's wild that he didn't duck that ball.

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Speaker 3: That's wild shit, But you can't take but he shouldn't.

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Speaker 1: Dog If Doc was like decent, if he was tenable

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Speaker 1: at his job in the playoffs, you feel me they

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Speaker 1: had no business being that situation in the first place.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know, man, I think I think it's

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Speaker 3: I think the.

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Speaker 1: Sixers are weird for putting all this pressure on Simmons

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Speaker 1: when I think the real issue is, like, did you

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Speaker 1: see what fucking Doc did after that game to start

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Speaker 1: this whole shit?

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Speaker 3: The fuck? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: See, I think the whole Ben Simmons situation is is

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Speaker 4: interesting on a couple of fronts. First and foremost, the

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Speaker 4: biggest takeaway from me and all this is, you know,

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Speaker 4: it's a bit of a study into how we view

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Speaker 4: what is quote unquote professional and what is quote unquote unprofessional,

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Speaker 4: and how that notion of what professionalism is is leveraged

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Speaker 4: by employers to their benefit. Like, we're getting a case

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Speaker 4: studying that shit right now. But I want to make

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Speaker 4: a couple of things clearly before a dressing that. Although

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Speaker 4: I'm firmly on Ben Simmons side in this whole dispute

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Speaker 4: or whatever. I do not fault the Sixers organization at

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Speaker 4: all for you know, reaching the decision that it's time

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Speaker 4: to trade been. I think that's best for all parties

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Speaker 4: involved here. You know, the fact of the matter is

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Speaker 4: Ben's a limited player, He's a flawed player.

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Speaker 3: He's a project.

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Speaker 4: You know, the motherfucker's two years away from being two

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Speaker 4: years away, right, And when you have a guy like Embiid,

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Speaker 4: you know, who's in his prime, an elite talent in

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Speaker 4: the league, you know, one of the you know four

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Speaker 4: or five guys who could fuck around and win, you know,

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Speaker 4: defensive player and MVP. When that's your number one guy,

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Speaker 4: then your number two guy can't be a project. You

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Speaker 4: know what I'm saying, You're working on in Bead's window,

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Speaker 4: and truth be told, that's a shaky ass window given

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Speaker 4: in Beads injury history. So time is of the fucking essence.

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Speaker 4: You absolutely have to get Simmons out of there and

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Speaker 4: find a legit number two god, because Ben ain't it now. Now,

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Speaker 4: with that said, here's where I take issue with the

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Speaker 4: Sixes and how they've completely watched.

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Speaker 3: This whole Ben Simmons trade situation. Right.

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Speaker 4: It's an obvious smear campaign that they're running on Ben now,

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Speaker 4: and they're doing it to mask their ineptitude, right, They're

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Speaker 4: doing it to take the spotlight off how they've had

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Speaker 4: about three months to get this guy traded and nothing

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Speaker 4: has materialized because Morey's ask them for the fucking moon

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Speaker 4: and the stars, right, And the way they're smearing him,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's it's as I mentioned, it's by weaponizing

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Speaker 4: this bullshit concept of professionalism that they know most people,

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Speaker 4: you know, especially Six's fans, are gonna buy hook and sinker.

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Speaker 4: You know, they're convincing folks that Ben Simmons is taking

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Speaker 4: his trade value by not returning calls, by not showing

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Speaker 4: up the camp. They even do a little motherfucking you

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Speaker 4: know razzle downs with the with the rich. Paul is

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Speaker 4: a tyrant running them up there. You know, for Good's

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Speaker 4: got a fire Rich Faull, Right, fire your fucking agent.

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Speaker 4: And it's all bullshit because look, no one who was

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Speaker 4: interested in Ben Simmons is backing out of trade talks

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Speaker 4: because they found out Ben is sending Darryl Moore to

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Speaker 4: voice man. Not a damn GM is backing out because

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Speaker 4: of that, right, And if your dumb ass believes that,

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Speaker 4: then I got some motherfucking beachfront property in Idaho to

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Speaker 4: sell your dumb ass right.

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Speaker 3: And of course.

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Speaker 4: A couple of years right, Ben's trade value it's rock bottom.

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Speaker 4: It hit rock bottom after you refused to dunk on

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Speaker 4: Trey Young. It's sunk even deeper after docking and B

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Speaker 4: buried him after that series. But Ben is not taking

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Speaker 4: his trade, his trade value any further by hitting ignored

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Speaker 4: when the Sixers call him. And I can't believe people

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Speaker 4: are eating that bullshit up. But the reason they are is,

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Speaker 4: like I said, people have a distorted view of professionalism

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Speaker 4: and employers leverage that to their advantage. All the time.

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Speaker 4: The six is told Ben there, we're gonna trade him.

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Speaker 4: Ben said, cool, there's under fus to talk about hitting

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Speaker 4: my agent. I'm not coming to camp. It's agreed. I'll

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Speaker 4: never play another game for the Sixers again. And he's

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Speaker 4: being vilified for this, and like I said, it comes

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Speaker 4: down to the Sixers leveraging the distorted view of professionalism.

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Speaker 4: That's so many people have professionals. Lism a lot of

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Speaker 4: times is a scam where the burden is put on

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Speaker 4: the worker. It'll always be a bigger person, even in

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Speaker 4: situations where their employee is showing them they're dispensable and

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Speaker 4: fuck that. You know, your professionalism is not defined by

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Speaker 4: how you let your employees jerk you around. Six has

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Speaker 4: made it clear they wanted to trade Ben, and Ben

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Speaker 4: is making them stand firm on that, and I don't

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Speaker 4: see a damn thing I'm professional about that.

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Speaker 2: I think that especially happens in sports because anytime there's

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Speaker 2: a divorce, like the kid, you're always gonna side with

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Speaker 2: the parent that you have to live with five days

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Speaker 2: a week to some extent, you know. And so if

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Speaker 2: you're a Sixers fan, you're like, well, I'm stuck with

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Speaker 2: Doc and Moury, right, I better find a way to

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Speaker 2: love the one I'm with. But let me just paint

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Speaker 2: a third grade elementary school lunchtime picture of what.

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Speaker 3: Doc Rivers did.

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Speaker 2: You have a bag of baby carrots and you are

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Speaker 2: trying to trade it for a chocolate pudding. You cannot

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Speaker 2: say to the person with the chocolate pudding, yeah, these carrots, man,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Like, they don't really do it for

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Speaker 2: me either. You gotta say these carrots will make you

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Speaker 2: jump higher.

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Speaker 3: You've gotta sell the carrots.

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Speaker 2: You can't nag the value of your asset to try

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Speaker 2: and get more for it. Like he went in the

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Speaker 2: press conference right after the game and said, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you can win with this guy. The Lakers

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Speaker 2: would never say that about Kyle Kuzma. They'd never say

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Speaker 2: that about Dennis Schroeder. No one would say that about

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Speaker 2: any player they have, because he's either your guy and

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Speaker 2: you're trying to boost him up, or he's not your

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Speaker 2: guy and you're trying to trade him, in which case,

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Speaker 2: why would you slap a defective sticker over his fucking forehead.

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Speaker 2: It just doesn't make sense. And Doc is out there

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Speaker 2: today saying, oh, those comments were taken out of context.

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Speaker 3: It's live video, Doc. We saw the shit, bro, the fuck,

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Speaker 3: we saw the whole shit.

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Speaker 4: What you mean taking out of contact, motherfucker, We saw

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Speaker 4: a whole motherfuckerg Doc, God damn.

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Speaker 3: And look he said, I.

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Speaker 4: Was gonna say, I completely get people saying that, well, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know Ben needed to hear that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Ben needed to hear that.

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Speaker 4: We didn't need to hear that, right, you know, that's

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Speaker 4: that's horrible coaching for Ben to say that publicly.

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Speaker 3: I think it would have been great coaching.

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Speaker 4: If Doc pulled him aside one on one and said,

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Speaker 4: you're not confident in yourself, So I'm not confident in

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Speaker 4: you and we gotta fix that.

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Speaker 3: That's good coaching bearing him like that, Like he has.

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Speaker 2: The reputation for being m Like, that's his reputation, is

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Speaker 2: the dude, who's that guy?

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Speaker 3: Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And it's tried to be Phil Jackson or something talking

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Speaker 2: to someone through the media, and he did it backwards.

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Speaker 3: He wasn't trying to be Philly.

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Speaker 1: He was trying to save his ass because his ass

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Speaker 1: was on the hot set, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Like, that's exactly what he's trying to do.

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Speaker 1: And when when Kuzma Bron was calling Kuzma's fucking Scottie.

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Speaker 3: Pippett, you know what I'm saying, Like he had us sticking.

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Speaker 1: He was like you know, like oh, like yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: how you sell somebody, if you know, if you know

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Speaker 1: somebody is like, yo, this is a solid piece that

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Speaker 1: I might want to move at some point, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know, like Ben Simmons, I don't know

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Speaker 3: what they would do.

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Speaker 1: Like Ben Simmons is a three time All Star, so

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Speaker 1: like I guess he's a We we look at him

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Speaker 1: like a project because we want him to be able

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Speaker 1: to shoot and all this ship.

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Speaker 3: Maybe Ben Simmons is what Ben Simmons is.

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Speaker 1: That's how I know. That's how you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: And he's and he's good. So I mean, he's a

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Speaker 1: second man.

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Speaker 3: He's an All.

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Speaker 1: Star, he's he's a three time alls out of the

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Speaker 1: four years he has been in the league, so that

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Speaker 1: he does right right, he's a he's a he's a

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Speaker 1: second option, but not a second option on the team

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Speaker 1: that's trying to win a chip.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean, exactly exactly. You know what

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Speaker 3: I mean.

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Speaker 2: You're the Sixers. That's what you're saying. He's a world

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Speaker 2: class defender. Obviously physically, he has tools that not many

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Speaker 2: people at his position.

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Speaker 1: I mean you're just like, but you don't say the

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Speaker 1: man can't win and then try to trade the man,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like that's ridiculous. So like

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying, That's what it's. I think the

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Speaker 1: issue I don't I don't think the issue is with

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Speaker 1: I think Benson is a good player.

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Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: I don't think the issue is with Ben Simmons not

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Speaker 1: being that. I think it's the fact that Doc got

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Speaker 1: on fucking camera and in front of the whole fucking

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Speaker 1: world in the fucking playoffs and said, my nigga, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I can win with this motherfucker, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, And that started to like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I mean we saw them to not decide not to

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Speaker 1: shoot that ball and be scared of shoot and all that.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, like we saw that, but I think

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Speaker 1: Doc put the stamp on that bitch when he and that,

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Speaker 1: you know after.

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Speaker 3: In the postgame presser, you feel what I'm saying, Like, oh,

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Speaker 3: so the.

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Speaker 2: Other issue is that Morey put the set the price

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Speaker 2: too high. Yeah, I mean, because regardless of what Doc

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Speaker 2: has said, there's plenty of video out there about Ben Simmons,

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Speaker 2: like like, people.

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Speaker 3: Know, he's a bag of carrots.

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Speaker 2: It's got nutritional value, but like you're not giving up

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Speaker 2: the pudding, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: So I like that's the.

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Speaker 2: Other side of this is it's just gonna come down

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Speaker 2: to how much is he willing to pay in fines

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Speaker 2: and how much are the Sixers willing to swallow their

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Speaker 2: pride and accept something in return for him.

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Speaker 4: Bro, it's it's gonna be some rotation players and some picks.

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Speaker 4: That's that's the ceiling on him, and that's for first Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean you know, they tried to hit fucking the

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Speaker 4: Warriors up. They wanted two starters and fucking four first

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Speaker 4: round Its like, God, damn, this is a bag of carrots.

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Speaker 3: Bro, you know what I'm saying, But.

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Speaker 1: Shit, if we keep it a stack though, if I'm

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Speaker 1: being I'm taking my ass.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I like, I like swallow my pride.

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Speaker 1: I think he's using three hundred K a day or

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Speaker 1: so they said something or something like that, like he's

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of money.

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Speaker 3: Like, Bro, I don't know, but it's.

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Speaker 1: Like like you were, like you were saying Tyler, like

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Speaker 1: this is not I don't think Ben's making a decision

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Speaker 1: that's not normal.

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Speaker 3: Like you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: That the only thing that makes it a normal as

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Speaker 1: amount of money if somebody said they didn't want me,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like, and I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm an all star player, you know what I'm saying, Like, Nigga,

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Speaker 1: I don't have to fuck with y'all. Niggas, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, like, I think this is I think

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Speaker 1: I get where he's coming from. Yeah, he's gonnak day God. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's I don't think it's they're just yet.

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Speaker 4: They they mentioned some vague team finds that he's getting

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Speaker 4: for skipping camp. But if he if they don't trade

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Speaker 4: him before the season starts, he'll missed like two hundred

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Speaker 4: thousand a game.

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Speaker 3: So that's where we're at.

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Speaker 5: Though.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot of money. Yeah, that's a lot of money.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of money.

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Speaker 2: Go to what show up for one game and then

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Speaker 2: just give them money to us?

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna just strap my dick to my

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Speaker 1: stomach and go ahead and go ahead, show up, man,

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Speaker 1: pitch it between my legs and go ahead and pull

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Speaker 1: up man.

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Speaker 3: Fuck it, nigga two hundred k game bro Shoot damn.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I think something Something else interesting to discuss here is

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Speaker 4: how the whole You know, whenever some ship like this happens,

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Speaker 4: everyone talks about. You know, it's just bad for the league.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's just gonna set a precedent. I don't

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Speaker 4: think it's gonna set ship, you know, for one, this

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Speaker 4: is just it's a very unique situation where you know,

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Speaker 4: Ben is he he contributes so much like the defensive end,

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Speaker 4: and then on the offensive end, he's pretty much a

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Speaker 4: fucking negative, right, So he's a very unique case. And

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Speaker 4: and the six of the Cunning ties with him very

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Speaker 4: early in his contract. But the whole thing is, you know,

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Speaker 4: if if you're gonna cry about how teams that draft

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Speaker 4: players can't hold on to their players, then you can't

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Speaker 4: really complain about him cashing out on the rookie extension

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Speaker 4: that he's on right now, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 4: because that's put in place for that for all the Well,

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Speaker 4: what about the small market team? Motherfuckers? That that shit

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Speaker 4: sounds like what am I gonna tell my kids? Whenever

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Speaker 4: I hear NBA fan say that bullshit? You know, am

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Speaker 4: I gonna explain this to my kids?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: That's that's what about the small market ship.

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Speaker 2: But some boys like boys, and some girls like girls,

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Speaker 2: and some millionaires like living in enjoyable cities to live in.

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Speaker 3: All of that, you feel what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, not at all saying Philly is a small market team,

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Speaker 4: but you know you feel me on that. So, so

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Speaker 4: like I said, if you're going to complain about you

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Speaker 4: know how teams that draft players often lose them. You

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00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,680
Speaker 4: can't really complain about being cashing out on the rookie

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Speaker 4: extension on that.

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Speaker 3: I don't see that. You know that ship don't click?

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Speaker 3: Wait wait, so what what are they saying? How it is?

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Speaker 3: How is this bad? Like? How would they.

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Speaker 1: Warp this to be bad for the I don't get

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Speaker 1: that they have they have warped this to been forcing

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Speaker 1: his way out after the Sixers told him that they

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Speaker 1: wanted to train him. But I mean, like, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: they're saying that's bad for the league?

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Speaker 3: Like what the like they they told the nigga, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't understand how motherfuckers could even try? Like are any

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Speaker 1: fans believing this?

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Speaker 4: Are people like actually, oh go look at all the

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00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,320
Speaker 4: fucking Eagles abby's and Sixers abbeys and my mentions when

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Speaker 4: I'm calling motherfuckers out on this, motherfuckers are riding hard

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Speaker 4: for this ship.

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Speaker 3: Bro willfully dumb.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean, ignoring what you saw with

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Speaker 1: your own eyes. Nigga, you know what I'm saying, what

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Speaker 1: you saw.

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Speaker 3: With your own eyes. We all saw what Doc.

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Speaker 1: Said, and now you know that's just crazy I just

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Speaker 1: think it's crazy as wow.

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Speaker 3: I have a brief.

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Speaker 2: We know necessarily we're not going to offer takes on this,

366
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,160
Speaker 2: but it is just something I wanted to read that

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Speaker 2: someone had posted on the NBA Reddit Russell Westbrook one MVP,

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00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,400
Speaker 2: one finals appearance, five conference finals, nine time player of

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Speaker 2: the month, sixty percent career win percentage, fifty five playoff wins,

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00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,360
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty four triple doubles. The Clippers franchise

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Speaker 2: zero MVPs, zero finals appearance, only five players of the month,

372
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Speaker 2: forty one percent career wins, and twenty four triple doubles.

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Speaker 2: Russell Westbrook is a more successful basketball franchise than the

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles Clippers.

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Speaker 4: Clippers own as fuck, dude, They've been around like fifty

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Speaker 4: sixty years, came in eight.

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Speaker 3: My god, damn Clippers ain't shit. Man, A small fucker.

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Speaker 1: Mike truly enjoys like you know you went to readit

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Speaker 1: to find this motherfucker.

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Speaker 3: Ready, guy, you know I'm not a Reddit guy.

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00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 2: Someone posted the screenshot on Twitter, and I'm not going

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00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:01,760
Speaker 2: to say the name of the Reddit user is.

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00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 3: It's not appropriate for the show.

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00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,359
Speaker 1: I thought you were on there, like fucking searching clippers

385
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 1: on fucking Reddit.

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00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:18,240
Speaker 3: Damn this motherfucker ever. That's a fact.

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00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 2: That's It's like the reason I would never go on

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00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 2: Reddit is it just seems like it's always like a

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Speaker 2: mix of racism and misogyny on there, which I know

390
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,679
Speaker 2: is true of Twitter too. But you can kind of

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Speaker 2: like sit in your part of the cafeteria.

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Speaker 4: Motherfuckers check you on that shit on Twitter. That shit

393
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,879
Speaker 4: was just ain't no laws. And Reddit everybody's in on

394
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 4: that ship.

395
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, they you know, you get all the votes on

396
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,320
Speaker 2: dig or what. I don't know how fucking Reddit works.

397
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 1: But I don't think that website gives me a headache dog,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

399
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Speaker 3: Like the website feels.

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Speaker 1: Very nineteen ninety eight, maybe two thousand and three, but

401
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,239
Speaker 1: people all of it.

402
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:01,119
Speaker 2: The reddit user's name suggests that he might participated in

403
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 2: the misogyny of the reddit, So I'm not gonna read it.

404
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,920
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the was it the Canelo way in? John,

405
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:10,199
Speaker 2: you just texted us about this.

406
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:10,679
Speaker 3: What happened?

407
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,399
Speaker 1: Okay, basically what happened is it wasn't really a way in.

408
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,639
Speaker 1: It's the fights not till I think November tenth, you

409
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 1: know what I mean? So like it's it's early November.

410
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 1: So they were just doing it's just a media day joint,

411
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 1: and you know, they were doing a little face off

412
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 1: and ship and Caleb got to talking this shit. Caleb

413
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,080
Speaker 1: is like, like Caleb Plant, he married to a black

414
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,399
Speaker 1: woman from the South, you know, so he you know,

415
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,200
Speaker 1: he probably you know, he grew up around like people

416
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:35,920
Speaker 1: to talk a little shit. He'd be talking his shit,

417
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 1: you feel me. So he told Canello's shit about his

418
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 1: mom and Canello Hispanic nigga, Like what I wouldn't never know,

419
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 1: you know, I talk about a nigga mom before I

420
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,879
Speaker 1: talk about his Like, hey, bro, you might have to

421
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,400
Speaker 1: fight to the death you talk.

422
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,400
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, Like that's a wild shit.

423
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,280
Speaker 3: So he said somebout Candela Mom.

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00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 1: Canelo almost push a nigga off the stage and not

425
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,160
Speaker 1: to the side I'm talking about the long way.

426
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,399
Speaker 3: Back to where he came from, Like bitch, you know

427
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 3: what I'm saying.

428
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 1: And then Caleb threw a little, you know, a little

429
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,880
Speaker 1: sucker punch, which like I think, barely grays Canelo because

430
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 1: you know he ready at all times and he's fucking Canelo.

431
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,479
Speaker 1: The hand movement looked too pure came with a counter,

432
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,160
Speaker 1: hit him with the uppercut, and then slapped the shit

433
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,640
Speaker 1: out on my other side. And I love the fact

434
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 1: that like he kept it open hand because he's like, Yo,

435
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fuck your eye up a little bit, but

436
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,159
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get this bag on of him.

437
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 3: Pretent my nigga, I'm.

438
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,199
Speaker 1: Not fucking the money up, but I'm gonna fuck you

439
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:32,880
Speaker 1: up and let you know what time it is.

440
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,359
Speaker 3: It was just beautiful to me to see, like you know,

441
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 3: that happened. And I like Caleb, Caleb, Caleb seemed like

442
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 3: a cool one.

443
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: I think I'd hang with Caleb, you know what I'm saying,

444
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 1: But like Dog, you just fucking with a god tear

445
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 1: boxer right now. And I mean, and what really tripped

446
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 1: me out is like I know Canelo would like dog

447
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 1: the fuck out of my ass, you know what I'm saying.

448
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 1: Like I know that it could. It's inexplicable what he

449
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 1: would do to me.

450
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 3: But what's really wild was like I didn't think he could.

451
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 1: I didn't even imagine that he would do that to

452
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 1: me with his hands open, Like Canelo would do the

453
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 1: exact same thing to me without even making a fist.

454
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 1: I couldn't beat this nigga in a fight with a gun,

455
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 1: And that is wild to me that niggas like that

456
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,120
Speaker 1: exists on this planet.

457
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 3: But I thought it was. It was just it was

458
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 3: just funny as hell to watch, bro.

459
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, what what I took from it is being that

460
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 4: they were in street clothes when it all went down.

461
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 4: It was like, this is how these motherfuckers would look

462
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 4: in the wild.

463
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

464
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 2: Right?

465
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 4: You know, because you know if you see him in

466
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 4: the boxer ringler, you know, you know, Bob and we

467
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 4: even you know, you know, combo counter, that's normal boxing.

468
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 4: Ship seeing these motherfuckers and see Canelo with no socks

469
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 4: all with loafers and no socks. One to see Canella

470
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,159
Speaker 4: address goloes do that and at fucking light speed, I

471
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 4: was like, God, damn, boxers really beat boxers.

472
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 3: Though, Like that's what that's like, bro, everywhere, not just

473
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 3: in the ring.

474
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 1: That's still a boxer and his motherfucking fitted ass Finny's

475
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like with no socks on,

476
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 1: he still got the bottom me weave and it was

477
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 1: just like the dude threw a sucker punch. Kayleb Plant

478
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: threw a sucker punts and still didn't land that much,

479
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: like really didn't land it. I'm like, dog, what you're

480
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,920
Speaker 1: gonna do when you put gloves on, you know what

481
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,639
Speaker 1: I mean? Like that head movement is there every at

482
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 1: all moments like that was really just reactionary because he

483
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 1: didn't I don't think he threw new Kayla was gonna

484
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: throw something, you know what I'm saying, But dog like

485
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: reactionary and the uppercut it was all natural.

486
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,159
Speaker 3: That shit happened in milliseconds.

487
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 6: You know, Caleb's glasses flew off the fucking screen bro

488
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 6: from an operad open hand uppercut his head, the glasses

489
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 6: flew out of the picture.

490
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 3: My nigga, it was, it was, and now you gotta

491
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 3: fight this nigga.

492
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 5: And he got a Joey with a slot Like what

493
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 5: you gonna do when you go back and train Looking

494
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 5: at Joself in the mirror shadow boxing, know you just

495
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 5: got your ass whooped by open hands.

496
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:10,239
Speaker 3: It's crazy to me, ship, but I still like him.

497
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 3: His sneaker collection is really cool. Good for Caleb, you

498
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 3: got a lot of cool sneakers, but you're gonna get your.

499
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 4: Ass who November ten. Better enjoy the ride. How do

500
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 4: you think that how you think that fight's going.

501
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: Honestly, you'll Caleb can Caler can out point him because

502
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: because because uh, Canelo gets really like he's not a

503
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: fast starter. He tends to like take rounds off. You know,

504
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 1: he looks for big punches and stuff like that. He

505
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: doesn't really like Caleb. Caleb's of Caleb's a really slick fighter.

506
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: You know, he didn't look at slick in that moment,

507
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: but like, but he's a very slick fighter. He's and

508
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: he can outscore. He doesn't have the power to really

509
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: sick Canelo. Canelo is like a fucking like like he's

510
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: getting hit with some ship, like g G G hit

511
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: him with some big ship and he ate that. I

512
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: don't think Plant's gonna hurt Canelo, you know what I mean.

513
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: But uh if I don't know, man, I mean, it's

514
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 1: a tough fighter. It's gonna be a good fight. I'm

515
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 1: talking hell of shit, but it's gonna be a it's

516
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: gonna be a good fight. So I mean, there's a

517
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 1: chance Canelo could lose his fight, but I'm hoping, like

518
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,719
Speaker 1: we see the ship where like I don't know if

519
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: you saw the last fight with Canelo fought, but like

520
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: he broke the nigga's face, turns in the ring and

521
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: faces the crowd and it's like cheering on.

522
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 3: He knew he broke his face and then like how

523
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 3: you're like, how do you feel in that moment? I

524
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 3: broke this nigga's.

525
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: Face and then I cheer the crowd up in the

526
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: middle of the round, like you got a minute and

527
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: a half left with me, bitch ass nigga, I'm gonna

528
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: play with you, you know what I mean.

529
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 3: That's some god shit, Like he's the closest man to

530
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 3: God in that moment, you know what I mean?

531
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, them all five, six of them, bro, But

532
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: it's it's it's crazy man, like like I'm hoping, I'm

533
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: I'm Canelo's probably like my favorite boxer mainly is because

534
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: I've seen him, you know, the Mexican coming in with

535
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: fucking like already thirty eight fights and he's like twenty one.

536
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 3: He was fighting grown men in Mexico, like they don't

537
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 3: have like.

538
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: The same rules we have here, so he might have

539
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: fought a fucking thirty five year old at fucking eighteen, bro,

540
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean, he ain't got it.

541
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: Any still cooking the ass, so he's a dog.

542
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: Then he comes here, you know what I'm saying, and

543
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: I see him rise up, take the l the Mayweather,

544
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: which Mayweather outclass, and he learns from him. He's a

545
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: totally different fighter afterwards. So I've watched this whole shit,

546
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: so he's probably my favorite fighter ever. But Bud Crawford, bro,

547
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if y'all have to take the Bud

548
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: from Nebraska. That motherfucker got shot and then drove hisself

549
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: to the hospital after he got shot in the head

550
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: like like he was maybe the neck, but like but

551
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: and Bud, Bud knocked the nigga out with a jab recently.

552
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: Like.

553
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 4: That motherfucker jabbed the nigga and took his belt. Who's

554
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 4: that old motherfucker who Shakur Stevens about to fight? That

555
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 4: motherfucker looked like his uncle.

556
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: I've been said, I haven't seen him fight much, but

557
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 1: Sa coursa run, circles around his motherfucker. Like I think, honestly,

558
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: out of all the young ones, I think Shakur got it.

559
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: He's not the more fighting dude. He ain't gonna sleep

560
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: your ass. But if you like really like to see

561
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: boxers chakor Stevenson like that, that's the one. Like we

562
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: talk a lot about, you know what I'm saying, Like, uh,

563
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: Javonte and Out they're fun as fuck, you know what

564
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: I mean. Like, but uh, but yeah, I think Shakur is.

565
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: I think he's the one that Nigga gonna be the

566
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: He fight like like he fight like money.

567
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 3: Mayweather from jump. He don't get hit.

568
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: His his fucking timing and his spacing. Our distance are

569
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: like like he his timing and distance are the age

570
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: of that old nigga. He f in the fight, you

571
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like you feel me like he

572
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: he I mean, he understands like boxing in the way

573
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: that that people his age just don't. But and he

574
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: and he also spar like his sparring partner is Bud Crawford,

575
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: who I think is not poundful pound up there with Canelo.

576
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: Him and Canelo are like one and two one A

577
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: one B maybe. But but yeah, man, so that that

578
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: motherfucker he a doll when Nigga so, I hope he

579
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: I love. That's my favorite young one to watch.

580
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 3: Bro. He just met him up come out to ring.

581
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: You look, he ain't even been touched Nigga barely sweat

582
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: Nigga too pretty well.

583
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. You can't touch me. But anyway,

584
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 3: the NFL is.

585
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 2: Back, and FanDuel Sportsbook wants you to get the most

586
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588
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590
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591
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Speaker 2: This week's Sunday Night football game is Niners Packers and uh.

592
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: I don't really talk about it on this podcast particularly,

593
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 2: but I am a lifelong Niners fan. Don't tell John

594
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: and Tyler I'm still watching the NFL. I will be

595
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596
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597
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,879
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598
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,560
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599
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600
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601
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602
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603
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604
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605
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619
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Speaker 2: All right, shall we talk about the book Book Club time?

626
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 3: Fuck it? Okay?

627
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: This is week two of talking about how the word

628
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: is passed by Clint Smith. We are going to finish

629
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 2: the book next week and then hopefully have a Clint

630
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: on after that. This week we read the chapters Angola Prison,

631
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: the Bradford Cemetery, and Galveston Islands Blandford Cemetery. Excuse me,

632
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: what did you got? We'll just go chapter by chapter.

633
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: What did you guys think of the I thought the

634
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 2: Angola prison chapter was one of the as difficult as

635
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: it was when we talked about the Whitney plantation, where

636
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: they're describing all the horrible things that happened to these people.

637
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 3: I thought the the in gol of.

638
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: Prisons connection of that to the world we live in

639
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: today was actually kind of the hardest thing to read,

640
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: maybe in the whole book.

641
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it.

642
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 4: So so the Angola Prison chapter it kind of, you know, basically,

643
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 4: what Clinton does in this book is you know, he

644
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 4: physics locations, and you know, he he tours these locations

645
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 4: and he comments on these locations, but kind of uses

646
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 4: them to you know, discuss a bigger, broader topic or

647
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 4: you know, or deconstruct certain notions that have been you

648
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 4: know ingrained in us that aren't just true or you know,

649
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 4: disproving things and such. So for the Endngola Prison, it's

650
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 4: like this kind of addresses the whole you know, thirteenth

651
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 4: Amendment where slavery was abolished. But in that same amendment,

652
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 4: there was a stipulation put in that kind of legalized

653
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 4: prison labor, which is basically modern day slavery. So that

654
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 4: was kind of the angle that he took care and

655
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 4: it was just it was a lot, man Like. I mean,

656
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 4: for one, the you know, it's I found out that,

657
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 4: you know, the official tide of this place is Louisiana

658
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 4: State Penitentiary is called Angola because that was the name

659
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: of the plantation where the site is. And it was

660
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 4: called Angola because that's the country that these slaves who

661
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 4: first worked the plantation came from.

662
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 3: So so that was a lot there. But but I.

663
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: Think what he said that I think it's sort of

664
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: the thesis of this chapter is, you know, like you said,

665
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: this used to be a plantation. It's still this prison,

666
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 2: and it's a prison with this really horrific, bloody history

667
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: that you know, includes the forced labor that you were

668
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 2: talking about. But the point that he made that that

669
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: stuck with me, that I think is the thesis for

670
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 2: the chapter. As he said, if in Germany today there

671
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: were a prison built on top of a former concentration

672
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 2: camp and that prison disproportionately incarcerated Jewish people, it would

673
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: rightly provoke outrage throughout the world. I imagine there would

674
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 2: be international summits on closing such an egregious institution. And

675
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: yet in the United States, such collective outrage at this

676
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: plantation turned prison is relatively muted.

677
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's what's like? Did you did you like peep

678
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 3: the part about the fucking gift shop? Yeah, like a

679
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 3: prison tour has like.

680
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: The way the way they I mean, like you start

681
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: off at the fucking gift shop, like where you sell gifts.

682
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 4: Like right, yeah, like like saying world's largest gata community

683
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 4: and shit like right right, like like you know.

684
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: Like patronizing or like in mocking the fact that like

685
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: I think they said seventy, like almost seventy percent of

686
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: people in there.

687
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 3: Are doing life sentences.

688
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: This is not just like your local jail, which would

689
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: be weird to have a gift shop too, But that's

690
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: wild as hell. But like Mike, you were talking about

691
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: the atrocities that were committed in how like the bloody history.

692
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: There's this one paragraph and said in his memoire Billy

693
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: Wayne Sinclair, who was once on death row at Angola,

694
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: so that the men held on Red Hat Block, which

695
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: Red Hat Block was wild to me, like his description

696
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: of it, were given the leftover some other prisoners mills,

697
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: and that those mills were delivered to them in wheelbarrows

698
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: like their fucking hogs, you know what I mean, like

699
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: their livestock. Sinclair described the Red Hat during the nineteen

700
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: forties and fifties as in Goldi's Torture Chamber, and I

701
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: outlined a culture of violence and callousness, not from the

702
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: prisoners but from the guards. Inmates sent to the Red

703
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: Hats were brutally beaten by convict guards going in, beaten

704
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: on a daily basis, and beaten coming out.

705
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 3: They were fed bread and water twice a day.

706
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: Some in mats were broken, others died from abuse and

707
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: neglect something to the Red Hat during that era simply disappeared,

708
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,479
Speaker 1: never to be seen or heard from again. And then

709
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: there's that story about the guy who was seemingly wrongfully

710
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: convicted of a murder a year later, who was electrocuted.

711
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: They did it fault It was a faulty electrocution, and

712
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: then they they tried to like you know, fight it

713
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: against They wasn't electricate again because he went through that

714
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: that whole process. Didn't die because a dude that's put

715
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 1: up together the day before was fucking drunk, and then

716
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: they still electrocuted the dude. And then you know what

717
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like it's just that type of shit, like

718
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: reading that like and then also that the fact that

719
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: they got seven cents an hour to get the guy

720
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: that was like, uh, I think was enorious. I forget

721
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: the guy's name that was kind of accompanying him on

722
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: that trip, who who did you know most of his

723
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: life in Angola and got out. I was talking about

724
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: how and is fighting against like what goes on in

725
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: Angola said he got seven cents an hour working you

726
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: know for the prison. How they're using them basically as

727
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: like slave labor, Like who the fuck? Like seven cents,

728
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: you know, like the fuck, like what what.

729
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 6: That?

730
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 3: I would give me nothing? Seven sense is gonna help me,

731
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 3: you know what I mean?

732
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: Like that, that's that that's almost it's it was It's

733
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: hard to fathom, honestly, you know.

734
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 6: I mean.

735
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 2: So the next chapter is Blandford's Cemetery, which is it's

736
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 2: a Confederate cemetery, and this was this chapter was really tense,

737
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: I mean because Clint actually interviewed a couple of the

738
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: you know, the speakers and the people who were there

739
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 2: to attend this sort of uh event commemorating you know,

740
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: the people who died fighting for the Confederacy, And I

741
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 2: don't know, I mean, I just I was, I was

742
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: nervous reading it that, you know, that he talked to

743
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 2: these people and everything. And obviously presumably it's like he's

744
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: okay and you know, writing about it and stuff, but

745
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 2: it just those moments of those interviews were really tense

746
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: for me. But I think that that chapter was a

747
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: really clear picture of how wide the gap is between

748
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 2: what actually has happened in this country and the way

749
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: that people have been educated about it. As we as

750
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: we talked about last week. Like growing up where I

751
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: grew up with like very progressive history teachers, et cetera,

752
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: I never got the quote unquote company line on, you

753
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Like we like we were talking

754
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: about Thanksgiving in like sixth grade, Like, eh, you know

755
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 2: what I mean.

756
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 4: So so some of this like.

757
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 2: Reading that people some of people learned this misinformation in school.

758
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 3: You know, in Virginia or or Alabama wherever.

759
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: Like that's been the craziest thing to me is like

760
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: a teacher looked you in the face and said the

761
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: Civil War was not about slavery? Yes, Like what like

762
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: that was in a textbook?

763
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck? Yeah? I mean, dude, why they

764
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 3: go ahead, go Tyler, go ahead.

765
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 4: Now I was gonna say. So, so this chapter, you know,

766
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 4: Clint visits the Blamford Cemetery. That this one kind of

767
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 4: hit me probably the hardest of all the chapters in there,

768
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 4: maybe because you know it's my backyardist you know where

769
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 4: I'm from and shit, and so so basically, you know,

770
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 4: what Clint is doing here is deconstructing the whole lost

771
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 4: Cause fallacy about how, you know, the bullshit notion that

772
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 4: that slave owners didn't really have a choice, you know,

773
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 4: and and and they went about slavery, you know, and

774
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 4: enslaving people as as humanly as they could, which is bullshit.

775
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 4: And he also, you know, talks about the whole, the

776
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 4: whole double edged sword of Confederate monuments, where it's it's

777
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 4: it is meant to it is meant by the the

778
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 4: white people who you know, erect them to to pay homage.

779
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: But the other side of the sword is it's meant

780
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 4: to intimidate and terrorize the black people who who will

781
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 4: see those And there was a paragraph here that I

782
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 4: want to read.

783
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 3: Let me see.

784
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 4: So the goal, in part was to teach the younger

785
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 4: generations of white Southerners who these men had been and

786
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 4: the cause that they had, and that the cause they

787
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 4: had fought for was an honorable one. But there's another reason,

788
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 4: not wholly disconnected from the first. These monuments were also

789
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 4: built in an effort to reinforce white supremacy at a

790
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 4: time when black communities were being terrorized and black socialism

791
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 4: political mobility impeded, and the late nineteenth century States began

792
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 4: implementing Jim Crow laws to cebmit this country's racial cast system.

793
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 4: Social and political backlash to Reconstruction era attempts to build

794
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 4: an integrated society. It was the backdrop against which these

795
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 4: first monuments arose. These monuments served as physical embodiments of

796
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 4: the terror campaign directed at black communities. Another spiking construction

797
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 4: of these statutes came in the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties,

798
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 4: coinciding not coincidentally with the civil rights movement. So you know,

799
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 4: like I said, it's the whole double edged sort of how. Yeah,

800
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 4: these people are honoring, you know, the white southerns, but

801
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 4: these monuments are also, you know, built to terrorize the

802
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 4: black people because if you look, if you were to

803
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 4: look at a map of Civil War monuments, you know,

804
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 4: they are dispersed where there is always a sizeable black community,

805
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 4: like ninety nine percent of the time.

806
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 3: Right.

807
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 4: You might see some random shit in like fucking Maine

808
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 4: or some shit, but for most of them, they are

809
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 4: in communities where there is a large black presence, And

810
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 4: they're all over fucking Richmond and Petersburg and we're like

811
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 4: fifty pat you know what I mean.

812
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: So I didn't realize I had not connected how close

813
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: the cemetery was to Richmond.

814
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't.

815
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 2: I was just looking that up on the map. That's crazy,

816
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: but yeah, you're you're exactly. We had a we had

817
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: a Robert E. Lee Elementary School in Long Beach until

818
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 2: they you know, they changed the name a.

819
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: Little while back.

820
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: But it's not in the suburbs, you know what I mean,

821
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: Like absolutely and that and like, what does Long Beach

822
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: have to do with the Civil fucking War, bro? Like

823
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: California was in a state. Long Beach was founded thirty

824
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: years after the Civil War ended. Uh, we have a

825
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 2: Lincoln Park where our city hall is because it was like, oh,

826
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: you know, yay the Union. But they named the elementary

827
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: school after this dude in a black part of the

828
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: city like that, like that, like how could that be

829
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 2: anything but like a terrorizing or you know, trying to

830
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: remind people, you know what I mean, like in a

831
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: in that kind of a way, not like like what

832
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 2: I mean, the dude have been dead for however many years. Bro,

833
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 2: it's not like an honor for him. Yeah, I mean,

834
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 2: like straight up, you know what I mean, There's no

835
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 2: other way to interpret it.

836
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 3: One one thing for me that was really weird was

837
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 3: just like, I mean, not weird. It's I grew up

838
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 3: in the South. I saw it. It's just a. It's

839
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 3: just disturbing.

840
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: It's just a general lack of awareness, you know what

841
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like her talking about visiting the Sons of

842
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: the Confederacy or whatever the fuck the name of that

843
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: group is, and like, you know, like when she was

844
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: to ask answering questions talking about how you know Robert

845
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: Lee would even like these statues, he was a very

846
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: humble man, like bitch, you know what I'm saying, Like

847
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: she chock the fuck up, nigga, you know what I'm saying,

848
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: Like nobody you know what I'm saying, Like it's it's

849
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: it's it's weird, Like you're working at a historical site

850
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: and you don't understand history, you know what I'm saying.

851
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: And then your defense to this situation is, well, the

852
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: vast majority of people that come here are white. Well

853
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: there's a reason why, motherfucker. Like you know, like how

854
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 1: you paint the picture of the Confederacy is not built

855
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 1: to to you know, design for black people to want

856
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: to come there, you know what I'm saying.

857
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 3: Like, but like he talks about it and like how well,

858
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 3: the only way.

859
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: For us to solve these current issues are through understanding

860
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: and instead of like like Mike, you brought it up

861
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: like how in like yes, in the South, we were

862
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 1: taught like I was creating like Native American headdress during Thanksgiving,

863
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: celebrating Native Americans, Like it wasn't what the fuck it

864
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: actually was, you know, like what happened didn't actually happen.

865
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Like we're talking about Abraham Lincoln,

866
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: like I knew I learned that Abraham Lincoln in the

867
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: Manspressing Proclamation like was political after from my own reading

868
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: outs after college, you know what I'm saying, and that

869
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: I didn't really I didn't truly understand how political it was,

870
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, like until.

871
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 3: Later on in my life.

872
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: But like like we're taught, we're like we're deep, like

873
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: we're like turning these people into into gods and you know,

874
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: we're worshiping their existence.

875
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 3: Is if their distances weren't actually what they were, you

876
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 3: know what I mean, honest stage, you know what I'm saying,

877
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 3: Like nigga.

878
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: Fuck that nigga. You know what I'm saying, Like, bitch,

879
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. He ow Like honestly, you

880
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: know what the fuck? You know, Like it's honest. If

881
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: you were white man, you know what I'm saying, Like

882
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: we're like, oh, I just I just feel like this.

883
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: I just feel like the how we're taught this ship

884
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: consistently lied to. I mean, we have a responsibility to

885
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: our to our own ship to make sure that they

886
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: know exactly what time it is, because motherfuckers is straight

887
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: up lying in classes. Teachers, you know what I'm saying.

888
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: Who you know have studied this ship, you know what

889
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: I mean. And he talked about how he was embarrassed

890
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 1: by his past, like embarrassed in the past as a kid.

891
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I think this is what

892
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm getting to the next chapter A little bit my bad,

893
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: But like he talked about he was embarrassed in the

894
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: past as a kid because he didn't understand his his

895
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: uh his his our past as well as other kids

896
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: have who have been taught this ship, you know what

897
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: I mean.

898
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 3: Where like what we're taught about slavery is like like

899
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 3: we were at fault. It's just it's well, it's it's it's.

900
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: Disturbing to see like people of that age talking to

901
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: him about this ship with them. She talks about going

902
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: to visiting this I went to one visit and it

903
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: was just bitch, you went to one you went fuck you,

904
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like, you know what I mean,

905
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: you went to what Son Confederacy meeting knowing what time

906
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: it was, you know what I mean?

907
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 3: Ay, like confused. I mean you see, like nobody confused

908
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: about that. But it's just so like like I said,

909
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 3: I think and that ship just fucking all that. And

910
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 3: that's I think that that.

911
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 2: Chapter shows how big that gap is and why I

912
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: think Like when we had Honey Fan and he was

913
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 2: talking about you know, he sees the world as a realist,

914
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 2: but that can come off as being cynical, right when

915
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: it comes to there being some like post Obama America

916
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: where there's like a healing of this divide and it's

917
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 2: like we haven't really even shined a people don't even

918
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 2: understand what the divide is because of the way that

919
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: this stuff is taught.

920
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 4: Something else that jumped out, Timmy was when I found

921
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 4: out there were thirty thousand you know, of people buried there.

922
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 4: I think they said, and bro, there's not thirty thousand

923
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 4: white people in Petersburg period. Like Petersburg's the city of

924
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 4: about fifty thousand and no exaggeration, it's about ninety percent black.

925
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 4: So you know, like I said, it goes back to

926
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 4: the whole double edged sortion about how these monuments were

927
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 4: erected to intimidate black people.

928
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 2: The third chapter we're reading today, which I think is

929
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 2: maybe if there is a hopeful chapter in this book,

930
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 2: it might be the Galveston Island chapter, just because it

931
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 2: prevents a It presents a positive vision of what education

932
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 2: and educating people about what actually happened would look like.

933
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: And to me, this chapter gives because you read the

934
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 2: Blandford Cemetery chapter, you go, it's the same thing we

935
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 2: have when we've talked about you know, anti bactors and

936
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 2: stuff like that. You're not going to reach these people, man,

937
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I just yeah, I respectfully, Like, I know,

938
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 2: you guys aren't wasting a lot of time trying to

939
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: do that. I'm not wasting a lot of time trying.

940
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 3: To do it.

941
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 2: Like you present. Okay, this is acceptable, this is not acceptable.

942
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 2: But you're not hoping for light bulb moments from a

943
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: lot of people who at this point, who are fifty

944
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: thinking that the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery.

945
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 3: I mean, but.

946
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 2: Galveston Island paints a picture of Yes, this would be

947
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: better to teach history in a positive way where you

948
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 2: actually just educate people on what happened and you have

949
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 2: people understand like, this is your country. If you're a

950
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 2: white person, if you're an Asian person or whatever. If

951
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 2: you live in America, that's your history. And this chapter

952
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: is very personal for my family. Shar's great grandfather was

953
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 2: born in Texas between the Emancipation Proclamation and Juneteenth and

954
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: so that was like he was born to a mother

955
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: who was enslaved, who didn't know that her son was

956
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 2: not enslaved because they had no one had come and

957
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 2: told them that, you know what I mean. So just

958
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 2: I shared a lot of this stuff with Shar and

959
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: and we're I'm hoping that we're going to get to

960
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 2: actually go and see the ceremony that they do there

961
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: because I think that would be fine, important for our kids.

962
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 3: But what did you guys think of that?

963
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 2: Like I said, I thought, if there was a hopeful

964
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 2: chapter in this book, is this where you're actually seeing

965
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:24,919
Speaker 2: here's something we could do that would improve things.

966
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, again, keeping with the themes of how

967
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 4: Clint visited places to kind of discuss a broader issue.

968
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 4: You know, he visited the site of June teenth for

969
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 4: listeners from are familiar, that was the site where Union

970
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 4: troops came years after the Amannsive Pace of Proclamation and

971
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 4: told the enslaved people there that they were free. So

972
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 4: what Clint kind of did here was kind of explored

973
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 4: the suppression and the misinformation that has been kind of

974
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 4: you know, circulating in regards to slavery.

975
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 3: And one of the.

976
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 4: Paragraphs that stuck out to me here it was in

977
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 4: April twenty eighteen, eighth graders at Great Hearts Monte Feasts

978
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 4: the North Charter School in San Antonio where asked to

979
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 4: complete a worksheet titled the Life of Slaves of Balanced View,

980
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 4: which had two columns in which the students were meant

981
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 4: to write positive elements of slavery in one and the

982
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 4: negative elements in the other. A textbook that had been

983
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 4: used at the school included a description of how slavery

984
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 4: included kind and generous owners and enslaved people who may

985
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 4: not have been terribly unhappy. The Texas State Board of

986
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 4: Education has since revised the standards so that across the

987
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 4: state slavery is understood. So I have played his central

988
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 4: role in causing the Civil War. It's a subject that

989
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 4: nobody wants to touch because nobody wants to really talk

990
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 4: about it.

991
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 3: Bostik said. She leaned over me and her eyes locked

992
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 3: on mind.

993
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 4: But it's what is going to continue to tear our

994
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 4: country apart until we're willing to understand it happened.

995
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 3: It really happened. So yeah, so that kind of hit

996
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 3: me hard.

997
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 2: That was I underlined that last line as well. The

998
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 2: other thing was he was asking one of the white

999
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 2: people who kind of helped to fund it, why, you

1000
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 2: know the Juneteenth ceremony where they re enact that message

1001
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 2: they mentioned is primarily attended by black people, and so

1002
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 2: Clint asked this guy, why, why don't why do you

1003
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: think more white people don't show up for it? And

1004
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: his response was they think it's just a black thing,

1005
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: he said, And my argument is it's not a black thing,

1006
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 2: it's an American thing. This is the final bit of

1007
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: freedom for us all, and that's so important. That's that's again,

1008
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 2: is what I took away. Like there's been this debate,

1009
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: or there was a debate before Fox News found something

1010
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 2: else to debate, But there was briefly a debate over

1011
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 2: critical race theory, et cetera, which is basically just accurately

1012
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 2: teaching the history of how race played a role in

1013
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: everything that's happened in this country. And that was just

1014
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: the thing for me. It's like, yes, you like you

1015
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 2: should want to learn what really happened. I mean, I

1016
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 2: just like that it seems that it's base. That seems

1017
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: a very easy, uncontroversial idea, and I'm glad that these

1018
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 2: people are doing this work. I'm glad that he chose

1019
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: to tell the story by interviewing so many people that

1020
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 2: are volunteering as docents and tour guides that these kinds

1021
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 2: of places, because there is something hopeful about that people

1022
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 2: saying this is a big, somewhat hopeless issue that we're

1023
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 2: not going to fix in our lifetimes. But I can

1024
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: personally tell a couple dozen people to day the truth right,

1025
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: And I think that there's something really beautiful about that perspective,

1026
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 2: even if I'm maybe too cynical to share it.

1027
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: I didn't even know Juneteenth existed till I was like

1028
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: twenty one and left the South and social studies was

1029
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, Jo, I didn't really give

1030
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 1: a fuck about school, but I excelled in social studies.

1031
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: I excelled in certain subjects. Social studies was one of them,

1032
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, And like I didn't know

1033
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: it existed, So like, how am I doing good in classes?

1034
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? And not knowing important historical

1035
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 3: things exist? You know what I'm saying.

1036
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's it's frustrating, but yeah, man, like,

1037
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: at what point did y'all did y'all? Y'all you were

1038
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,720
Speaker 1: talkt about June teenth? You know what I'm saying. As

1039
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: a as a young as.

1040
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 4: A young I didn't learn about Juneteenth until my freshman

1041
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 4: year of college. Yeah, and I made friends with with

1042
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 4: my homie still my homie to this day from Dallas, y'all.

1043
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 4: So my dude Marcus, and he.

1044
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 3: Told me about it.

1045
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 4: He was like fucking flabbergasset that that you know, it

1046
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 4: wasn't a national thing, right, So yeah, I learned it

1047
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 4: from my homie freshman year college, my homi from Dallas

1048
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 4: named Marcus.

1049
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 3: I had a wrong idea about what it was.

1050
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,479
Speaker 2: I thought it was just a celebration of slavery ending.

1051
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 2: Generally there's there's a Juneteenth party or celebration picnic, you

1052
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 2: know in Long Beach that happens at MLK Park. So

1053
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 2: I knew about it from that, but I just thought

1054
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: it was like a celebration of that, like, oh, slavery.

1055
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: I didn't know the actual history of this stuff until

1056
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,479
Speaker 2: actually I was probably much older, Like I probably didn't

1057
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: really understand that until ten years ago. It's like my

1058
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: late twenties. And then as Charles doing all this genealogy

1059
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 2: research about her family, finding that out that like her

1060
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: direct ascendant or whatever you say, her ancestor was born

1061
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 2: in that window was really like, you try, you think

1062
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 2: about the realities that Clint's been writing about, and then

1063
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: you try and really picture that moment of coming into

1064
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 2: the world is just an' it's it's, it's it's it's

1065
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 2: tough to wrap your head around for sure.

1066
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 3: I think it's regional though.

1067
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 1: I think like if you're in Colorado, Texas, Oklahoma, in

1068
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: that area right when you're getting into the West, you

1069
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: grow up knowing about that ship. Like my cousins when

1070
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: I told them, and they were like the fuck, you

1071
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like they were shocked in the

1072
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: way that your homie was shocked. You know what I'm saying,

1073
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,720
Speaker 1: but like for me, like Buffalo Buffalo.

1074
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, Buffalo surprisingly has a very strong Juneteenth history.

1075
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 3: I found that out in the last couple of years too.

1076
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: Okay, that's uh, that's what we've got time for this week.

1077
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 3: We are reading the rest of the book.

1078
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 2: Next week, it's about eighty pages, reading the New York

1079
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 2: City chapter and the Goret Island chapter as well as epilogue,

1080
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 2: and then we're gonna work on getting Clint on after that.

1081
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 2: So again, if you have questions about stuff as you

1082
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 2: are reading through this, A couple of you made notes

1083
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 2: that we were able to ask Knief questions. I think

1084
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,479
Speaker 2: that's super cool. We're happy to do that. So please,

1085
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 2: if you do think of questions, write them down or

1086
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 2: be prepared to send those in. And thank you for

1087
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 2: listening as always to the Jenkins and Jones Program, and

1088
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 2: we will be back on Monday.

1089
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 3: Bye bye,