Speaker 1: This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You
Speaker 1: can visit Nora Jones channel and be sure to subscribe
Speaker 1: while you're there. Hi, I'm Nora Jones. Today I'm playing
Speaker 1: along with Sarah mcgloughlin. I'm just playing lo Wey. I'm
Speaker 1: just playing lone Wey.
Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Nora Jones.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show with me, as always is Sarah Oda.
Speaker 1: Here we are Yay. Today we have a very special
Speaker 1: guest because I fangirled out like eighteen year olds Nora,
Speaker 1: it was my little baby self. On this episode, we
Speaker 1: have have.
Speaker 3: The legendary Sara Sarah McLaughlin, Grammy winning singer songwriter who
Speaker 3: has an unmistakable voice that certainly left an impression on
Speaker 3: our generation, but also has connected listeners across all generations.
Speaker 3: She also founded Lilith Fair in nineteen ninety seven, bringing
Speaker 3: women artists together on one stage, and she continues to
Speaker 3: inspire and uplift with her artistry and activism.
Speaker 1: There's a great doc out now on Lilith Fair that
Speaker 1: you should check out. It's pretty awesome.
Speaker 3: Her new album Better Broken just came out in September.
Speaker 1: That means you talk, Oh yes, we do.
Speaker 4: Some songs from that album.
Speaker 1: They're really beautiful, and it was fun to catch her
Speaker 1: before she goes on tour because she hasn't really performed
Speaker 1: them live that much, so it was really special to
Speaker 1: sort of get to be there and play them with her.
Speaker 1: Very cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she said she was very connected to those songs
Speaker 3: right now. So yeah, in this episode, you're going to
Speaker 3: hear about the challenge of losing a voice on tour.
Speaker 3: You're going to hear about her music school programs, and
Speaker 3: also about the Lilith Fair documentary which just came out
Speaker 3: as well, and as always, there's beautiful music on the way,
Speaker 3: some new songs, and then for me personally, a nineties
Speaker 3: dream come true for me as well.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I got to sing one of my faves
Speaker 1: with one of my faves. It was awesome. She's a
Speaker 1: delight and we loved hanging with her and having her
Speaker 1: on the show. I loved getting to connect with her
Speaker 1: in this way because we've met once, but we've never
Speaker 1: really got to hang out much. So here she is
Speaker 1: Sarah McLaughlin. There is some spicy language in this episode,
Speaker 1: so listener discretion is advised. It's not that bad, but
Speaker 1: just so you know it's there.
Speaker 5: True to comes. It's for.
Speaker 6: The witch.
Speaker 7: Game, and.
Speaker 6: I'm running ragged through the maze.
Speaker 5: I know the heart.
Speaker 7: It's a tricky bee snacks Coo famrad spirit.
Speaker 1: Of the name.
Speaker 7: Lose you, robs your blind and leaves you bleating on
Speaker 7: the street.
Speaker 5: Where are you out? As arms surround you.
Speaker 8: And a wee spering you here, saying everything's gonna be
Speaker 8: all right, eatling if it's not.
Speaker 6: Because you're roly human, you can only take so much
Speaker 6: before it break.
Speaker 7: When you feel like you're drowning alone, and the way
Speaker 7: escape on coming, and all you.
Speaker 5: And the circle goes round and round and round till.
Speaker 6: You can't breathe.
Speaker 9: That night you cannot see.
Speaker 7: Under these rooms ease prison holds it A stumbled through
Speaker 7: some many times before.
Speaker 6: To find the devil lurking just behind the door.
Speaker 7: I don't pretend to understand the Rosie walk till you
Speaker 7: see your stay.
Speaker 6: In the day, want to tried or left some of
Speaker 6: the burdens that.
Speaker 5: You bear, and all you own his arms and we
Speaker 5: spiney read.
Speaker 6: Saying everything's gonna.
Speaker 10: Be already, even if it's not. Because you're all only human,
Speaker 10: you can only take so much before we break.
Speaker 9: And you feel like.
Speaker 10: You're trowling alone, and the wate keep on coming out
Speaker 10: the time, and the circle goes round and round and
Speaker 10: round until you can't breathe.
Speaker 9: But that's not you cannot see. That's right, you cannot see.
Speaker 6: So beautiful.
Speaker 5: Thank you, that's so pretty.
Speaker 1: Thank you for let me sing with you.
Speaker 2: I love I love that we got to do that together.
Speaker 2: I literally have done this twice live two months ago.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I love this song. And when I was
Speaker 1: listening to the new album, I was like, the harmonies
Speaker 1: are beautiful.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 4: Have you always done your own harmonies on record pretty much?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I harmonized to everything. Yeah, listening to
Speaker 2: anything on the radio in the car, I just instantly
Speaker 2: go to the third or the fifth or the fourth,
Speaker 2: or you know, try and find another place because I
Speaker 2: just I want to sing with everything.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 1: But you have really interesting harmony in the way you play.
Speaker 1: You use a lot of seconds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of. I like a little bit of dissonance.
Speaker 5: I like that.
Speaker 2: And it's not so pretty, I mean, because it's it's
Speaker 2: as you said, it was really pretty and it is
Speaker 2: and I'm really drawn to that, but I like there
Speaker 2: needs to be some rubs.
Speaker 1: Where does that come from?
Speaker 2: What? What?
Speaker 9: Like?
Speaker 4: How did you learn music? I don't even know your history.
Speaker 2: Well, I started out with you giallely when I was
Speaker 2: four years old. Yeah, because I basically I wanted to
Speaker 2: be Joan Biass. My mom, Yeah, my mom listened. She
Speaker 2: had a couple records, Joe by Ass, Kat, Steven Simon,
Speaker 2: and Garfunkle. So American folk was what I was steeped on,
Speaker 2: you know, and that's what I grew up with. And
Speaker 2: so I got a ukulele when I was four. And
Speaker 2: then we moved to the big city, and I started
Speaker 2: taking classical guitar lessons because that was kind of the
Speaker 2: only thing that was available to be taught. Then moved
Speaker 2: from that. I kept taking guitar. Then I started taking piano,
Speaker 2: and it took opera for a couple of years, which
Speaker 2: so was not my cupite. But you know, it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: you sing, you want to sing, let's give you some
Speaker 2: singing lessons, And honestly, it did nothing but screw me up.
Speaker 1: I almost took classical, like opera. I was kind of
Speaker 1: dabbling in that when I was in high school, and
Speaker 1: I was afraid that it would train me the wrong way.
Speaker 2: I feel like it kind of did. I actually, really
Speaker 2: I had to unlearn some things because one of them
Speaker 2: they taught you to stand really rigidly, and they mentioned
Speaker 2: the diaphragm. But I was, you know, I'm really good
Speaker 2: at faking stuff. I can mimic pretty much anything, so
Speaker 2: I would just pretend to be an opera singer and
Speaker 2: they didn't really teach me anything. They just it was about,
Speaker 2: you know, staying in tune and had it hitting all
Speaker 2: those notes. But I was stiff because of it. I
Speaker 2: actually had to remind myself to loosen up. That was
Speaker 2: one of the very first things when I started working
Speaker 2: with a vocal court coach. After I blew my voice
Speaker 2: out on my first tour. She's like, okay, I just
Speaker 2: sang for her. She goes, go run around the block
Speaker 2: as fast as you can and come back.
Speaker 1: Are you serious?
Speaker 2: So I sprinted around the block, came back panting, and
Speaker 2: she says, light out on the floor. So I lay
Speaker 2: it on the floor. She goes now sing that same part.
Speaker 2: I'm like, everything was working, My diaphragm was open, my
Speaker 2: lungs were opening up, and I just loosened. I was loose, like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's how I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1: That's so cool. One of my favorite albums is Surfacing,
Speaker 1: and I have a story to tell you later about that.
Speaker 1: But you really seem to be drawn to these weird
Speaker 1: sounds as well on the recordings, Like I don't even
Speaker 1: know if they're sense or they don't sound like typical sense,
Speaker 1: but whatever they are, they're very like organic but electronic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, where does that come from?
Speaker 9: Again?
Speaker 2: Trying to create a soundscape that pulls you away from
Speaker 2: that sort of traditional prettiness, because you know that's where
Speaker 2: I go. That's my that's my comfort, beautiful melodies, harmonies,
Speaker 2: but it's it's often very pretty.
Speaker 1: I can relate, yeah, because it's the piano singer girl exactly.
Speaker 2: And I love that.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I you know, when you think about why I
Speaker 2: love production, why I love going in the studio, there's
Speaker 2: an elevation that happens when you bring other musicians together
Speaker 2: and they create and bring colors to it that you
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to think of on your own. That's
Speaker 2: why you collaborate.
Speaker 1: Totally, and I why not use it all?
Speaker 2: So why not utilize that? And you know it it's
Speaker 2: sort of a sometimes a singular argument because I have
Speaker 2: so many people say I just want to hear you
Speaker 2: play and sing on the piano and to go. Do
Speaker 2: you understand how boring that gets for me as a listener,
Speaker 2: Like I need I need some dissonance, I need some
Speaker 2: I need something to rub up against that came out
Speaker 2: the wrong. Yeah, there needs to be a conflict in there.
Speaker 1: It's also just it's more fun playing with others totally. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you never know what they're gonna come up with
Speaker 1: that makes you come up with something different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a conversation that continues to happen every
Speaker 2: time you work together, every time you're experimenting and trying
Speaker 2: something different. It's like that's where the magic happens. Totally.
Speaker 4: Do you have a tour coming up?
Speaker 2: I sure do.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I actually had to cancel my tour last year. I
Speaker 2: got a wicked virus right at the onset of my
Speaker 2: I was doing this thirtieth anniversary filming tour Secstasy Tour.
Speaker 2: I did it in America. I blew out my voice. Wow,
Speaker 2: I just you know, I came on hot, like rehearsing
Speaker 2: seven hours a day, going right into the shows and
Speaker 2: kind of did some damage. So on steroids the entire tour.
Speaker 2: Oh god, and you often put yourself in a bit
Speaker 2: of a false sense of security with those. And I
Speaker 2: did more damage on tour, and then I took the
Speaker 2: summer off thinking that that would be enough to recuperate.
Speaker 2: And then I went back out in the fall and
Speaker 2: got a wicked virus like day two and lost my
Speaker 2: voice completely and it was gone for three months.
Speaker 1: That's insane.
Speaker 2: I went into E and T got scope and they're
Speaker 2: worried I wouldn't come back. Oh yeah, I spent the
Speaker 2: whole I spent most of the winter on vocal rest,
Speaker 2: like I wasn't on the talk.
Speaker 4: Which is how did that?
Speaker 2: Really challenging? And I was lucky I'd finished almost all
Speaker 2: the vocals for the record, but I went through this
Speaker 2: last winter thinking oh, I might not be able to
Speaker 2: sing this album, which was you know, I'm very lucky.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of things that bring me joy
Speaker 2: in my life, but I am to a large degree
Speaker 2: defined in my own sense of self around my voice
Speaker 2: and being able to sing and using that as a
Speaker 2: you know, a form of expression.
Speaker 1: Super powered.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean it was. I was pretty bommed
Speaker 2: thinking that it might be gone. But I just you know,
Speaker 2: you have to think positively. So I did everything the
Speaker 2: doctor told.
Speaker 11: Me to do.
Speaker 2: I sound terribly hoarse right now because I've been talking
Speaker 2: for the last seven days straight, which isn't the greatest
Speaker 2: thing for a singer, but it is back. I got
Speaker 2: it back. I got a clean bill of health, and
Speaker 2: I did all the vocal rehab and everything, and I'm
Speaker 2: going back out to do the same tour that I
Speaker 2: didn't do last year, starting on the exact same date,
Speaker 2: almost October fifteenth, but with a new album. Well yeah,
Speaker 2: and so for me, it's like, oh, this is a
Speaker 2: great opportunity, a soft launch. I'm going to do the
Speaker 2: fumbling tour, but I'm going to add in not all
Speaker 2: of but a few of the new songs. I'm fully
Speaker 2: aware that people, you know, aren't familiar with this material
Speaker 2: and they want the old stuff, and they're paying good
Speaker 2: money to come see me, so I'm going to give
Speaker 2: them what I want. But yeah, I'm also going to
Speaker 2: do a little bit of what I want as well.
Speaker 4: You could just do a balance, you do, try to
Speaker 4: do balance.
Speaker 2: I'll probably do four new songs. Okay, it's a two
Speaker 2: and a half hour show, so oh yeah, they're just
Speaker 2: going to have to put up with it.
Speaker 1: They're going to be happy. They're beautiful songs. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's such a balance, trying to trying to do.
Speaker 4: What you think people want.
Speaker 2: But also yeah, I mean I'm not getting stale, you know,
Speaker 2: lucky that I for the most part, I still really
Speaker 2: love all these songs. Like I'm not sick of them yet.
Speaker 4: That's great. Yeah, yeah, I mean you should be proud
Speaker 4: of them, you know.
Speaker 2: I am, you know, But I don't know about you, But, like,
Speaker 2: you know, the older stuff, for me, I have less
Speaker 2: of an attachment to and less sort of an association. Yes,
Speaker 2: and if it feels disingenuous to sing it, if I
Speaker 2: don't feel attached to it.
Speaker 4: Do you want to try the other song from the
Speaker 4: new record?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: What was the other song?
Speaker 2: We go?
Speaker 1: I think we talked about doing better broken? This is
Speaker 1: also the title try. Okay, has it been a while
Speaker 1: since you released an album?
Speaker 2: Eleven years? That feels like a well timed eleven years
Speaker 2: since since new material?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I did a Christmas record maybe six or seven
Speaker 2: years ago, because I had a two album contract on
Speaker 2: my last It's usually.
Speaker 1: White people do Christmas.
Speaker 2: It's like hmm, shall I press easy button? Yeah? Yes,
Speaker 2: all the song's already written. It is great, but yeah,
Speaker 2: eleven years since new material. And I mean, I've been busy.
Speaker 2: I raised two totally daughters. I've just dropped off my
Speaker 2: little one at university weeks ago. Yeah, so I'm an
Speaker 2: empty nester.
Speaker 1: How does that feel?
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't been home, so I think I'm okay.
Speaker 12: You're busy, honestly busy enough.
Speaker 2: I mourned it for probably the last six months before
Speaker 2: she left. We're super tight, and honestly, every time anybody
Speaker 2: brought it up to me, I started leaking like okay, like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm going to be such a mess.
Speaker 2: But I think when you know something is coming, you
Speaker 2: can kind of. I was kind of grieving it along
Speaker 2: the way.
Speaker 7: And then when I.
Speaker 2: Got there and I moved her in and she was
Speaker 2: so ready and so excited, and I walked downstairs said
Speaker 2: I've got to go. I got to go get on
Speaker 2: the plane and go home, and she's like, I got this, Mom,
Speaker 2: I'm good. And I said, well, then I'm good too,
Speaker 2: and gave her a big HUGHESSID, I'll see you in
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks because I'm going to La in
Speaker 2: a couple of days. So it's been like, you know,
Speaker 2: month and then it's not like a year. It's not
Speaker 2: And you know, I think in the winter when I'm
Speaker 2: home by myself and it's a big old house and
Speaker 2: you know, there's not the noise of her music or
Speaker 2: just she's a big presence. Like, yeah, I'll definitely I'll
Speaker 2: miss her, and I already miss her. But here's the
Speaker 2: other cool thing, Like she facetimes me almost every day.
Speaker 4: Oh that's great, so she misses me.
Speaker 1: But it's not like I want to come home, yeah
Speaker 1: miss you.
Speaker 2: It was just like, hi, Mom, how are you? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: but I gotta go. Yeah, just check it in And
Speaker 2: I'm sure that will lessen over time.
Speaker 4: But it's such an interesting dynamic.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm just I'm so grateful that I
Speaker 2: kind of semi retired like COVID happened, and it was
Speaker 2: as awful as it was, it was in some ways
Speaker 2: a gift for me to just be able to slow
Speaker 2: down and realize how introverted I actually am.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a funny thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's just I was like, okay, I'm just
Speaker 2: just going to be a mom I've got a couple
Speaker 2: of years left. I really want to enjoy this.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My youngest also is a big dancer, so I was
Speaker 2: full on dance mom, all the hair and makeup till
Speaker 2: about fourteen when she's like, no, I got it moment.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I was fundraising off the side of my desk too,
Speaker 2: form my free music schools, and I'm very actively involved
Speaker 2: in those, so, and I was continuing to tour a
Speaker 2: little bit, so writing just it kind of took a
Speaker 2: backseat for chunk years.
Speaker 4: So but it probably doesn't feel like that long to you.
Speaker 2: It does doesn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing I think people think people have
Speaker 1: a perception of that between album things being much different
Speaker 1: than the person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they're they're on the outside just waiting for
Speaker 2: the new material or waiting for something new, and.
Speaker 4: We're you know, it's like what have you been doing?
Speaker 5: What have I been doing?
Speaker 2: We're busy living our lives, gaining experience, gaining hopefully some
Speaker 2: wisdoms so that we can write and have some perspective
Speaker 2: and feel like we have something to say. So bet
Speaker 2: or broken. Yeah, this is the title track. Actually this
Speaker 2: is fourteen years old.
Speaker 1: Really. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was a song that was meant to go on
Speaker 2: my last record, and I think I didn't have a
Speaker 2: bridge at the time, and kind of we ran out
Speaker 2: of times, so I just archived it. And then when
Speaker 2: we were thinking about material for this new record, I
Speaker 2: sort of was I had seven songs about a really
Speaker 2: ugly breakup that I went through, and that was like,
Speaker 2: you know, six or seven years ago. When I pulled
Speaker 2: them back out and I realized that, A they weren't
Speaker 2: that good and b Oh my god, I don't want
Speaker 2: to give that any energy. I'm so over it.
Speaker 1: Now you're glad you got it out of your body.
Speaker 2: I got it out of my body.
Speaker 11: Done.
Speaker 2: It was good therapy to write those songs, but nobody
Speaker 2: needs to hear them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's good. I feel like that's a good
Speaker 1: self awareness. The self editing is not always Yeah, people
Speaker 1: aren't always good at that.
Speaker 2: No. Well, I mean, unfortunately, it meant I didn't have
Speaker 2: enough material for the record, But I you know, getting
Speaker 2: into the studio creativity be gets more creativity, and it
Speaker 2: was easy to There was a bunch of other ideas
Speaker 2: that just kind of you know, came to fruition quite
Speaker 2: quickly being in that kind of environment. But better Broken
Speaker 2: was yeah, the very first song, and it's funny that
Speaker 2: it ended up being the title track and the title
Speaker 2: of the record. But it kind of is really apt,
Speaker 2: you know, for getting to fifty seven. You know, all
Speaker 2: the challenges and struggles that we all face as humans.
Speaker 2: Loss of both my parents and my brother to cancer,
Speaker 2: you know, disastrous failed marriage and relationships, you know, and
Speaker 2: challenges with my children like normal things. Look, I'm really
Speaker 2: I'm lucky and blessed. I live this ridiculous life because
Speaker 2: of music. But you know, we still you have a
Speaker 2: lot of hard shit we have to deal with, and
Speaker 2: it's all relative. So having music has been an incredible
Speaker 2: outlet and the idea of being better from all those
Speaker 2: challenges that we face. You know, you have to pick
Speaker 2: yourself back up and keep moving forward and figure out
Speaker 2: how to do better and be better.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So resilience, that's right, That is the name of the game.
Speaker 1: Amen.
Speaker 2: You know what, I'm gonna put the dan broon because
Speaker 2: it just subtles it a little bit. I kind of
Speaker 2: like that mute.
Speaker 7: Maybe if I catch my breath, maybe I fait a little,
Speaker 7: I'd remember how it hurts and stop.
Speaker 6: Before a fall. I'd forget to come apart and catch
Speaker 6: myself and hold on tadley. Let memory wash over me. Forgive,
Speaker 6: but don't forget.
Speaker 5: But you come back to me, begging away to leave.
Speaker 5: Tell me why how could you let this go? Let
Speaker 5: it be oh?
Speaker 7: It is small and still mad, like a stone the
Speaker 7: jackets made smooth, but child, let it be all that
Speaker 7: is small and still be after alone. Some things are
Speaker 7: better broken, Some things are better broken. Luciens come flit
Speaker 7: and stains, swirling, lash and soft and perfect, to blur all.
Speaker 6: The edges till everything looks fine.
Speaker 5: Our Pretend I didn't cry.
Speaker 6: You, pretend that you're my say both remember what.
Speaker 5: We want to get us through the night. Still come
Speaker 5: back to me, begging away to leave. Tell me why
Speaker 5: how could you let this go?
Speaker 13: Let it be hard.
Speaker 7: It is small and still mad like a stone. Jackets
Speaker 7: me smooth, chime, Let it be fart. It is small
Speaker 7: and still better after lone. Some things are better broken,
Speaker 7: Some things are better broken.
Speaker 5: Let it be fall. It is small and still bad.
Speaker 11: Relaxed stone, jagg it It's.
Speaker 5: Be smooth by chiding.
Speaker 7: Let it be thought. It is some moot us do.
Speaker 7: Some things better broken. Some things are better broken. Some
Speaker 7: things are better broken.
Speaker 2: Damn that feels skip to sing.
Speaker 1: Right, See, it's the best music is Magic. We met
Speaker 1: at the British School of Benefit. That's the only time
Speaker 1: we've met. I think that is the only Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was so fun. Hangs with you then Magic,
Speaker 1: they were.
Speaker 2: Well I think I did three of those years, and
Speaker 2: what an incredible eclectic crew with musicians.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I remember Rail Montaigne.
Speaker 1: From that one.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I don't know, that was a
Speaker 2: different so and he. I mean, I'm a massive, massive
Speaker 2: fan of his, and you know, I was trying not
Speaker 2: to sob listening to him perform. And we shared very
Speaker 2: briefly same manager, Michael McDonald, And so I got to
Speaker 2: meet him afterwards with Michael, and he was just beating
Speaker 2: himself up and berating himself for the shitty job he
Speaker 2: had done. And I'm just like, I took him by
Speaker 2: the lapels and I'm like, are you fucking crazy? We're
Speaker 2: so talented, my god, you're stopping so hard on yourself.
Speaker 2: That was like, okay, don't touch the man.
Speaker 1: Artists are so tortured. Sometimes we have no idea. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess we do from their music sometimes, but not really.
Speaker 2: I mean, and I know in some ways we need
Speaker 2: that to propel us forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like I I've grown up with a healthy dose of
Speaker 2: self loathing that I think has, you know, pushed me
Speaker 2: to to be better and to just work, work really
Speaker 2: hard at making this your absolute best or you suck.
Speaker 2: There's no middle ground. It's either you suck and you're
Speaker 2: an idiot, or it's fucking great.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Would you tell me a little bit more
Speaker 1: about the music schools?
Speaker 9: Yeah, sure, So.
Speaker 2: It started almost twenty four years ago. I took a
Speaker 2: big chunk of the money that I made during Lilith
Speaker 2: Fair put it into a foundation. I mean, we gave
Speaker 2: over seven million dollars to charities, national and local women's
Speaker 2: charities from Lilith. YEO, that's amazing. I really wanted to
Speaker 2: continue the legacy of giving. So I looked around trying
Speaker 2: to think. At the time, I wasn't even sure what
Speaker 2: I wanted to do with it. I just knew I
Speaker 2: wanted to figure something out. And all the public schools
Speaker 2: were cutting their music programs.
Speaker 1: This is in Canada.
Speaker 2: This is in Canada. Yeah, And I mean, I think
Speaker 2: it's kind of the same everywhere. The arts are the
Speaker 2: kind of the first thing to go. And I saw
Speaker 2: this happening, and I thought about what music did for
Speaker 2: me growing up, and I mean basically saved my life.
Speaker 2: I don't think i'd be here if I hadn't have
Speaker 2: had that, that that medicine, that that salve, that safe
Speaker 2: space where I could just be myself and actually have
Speaker 2: something that I knew I was good at, and that
Speaker 2: fed me and gave me a sense of my own worth.
Speaker 2: So to think that kids didn't have that opportunity just
Speaker 2: felt like, Oh, we're this whole generation is going to
Speaker 2: be missing out on something really profoundly important, like our
Speaker 2: social emotional growth, our sense of where we sit in
Speaker 2: the world, and our you know, our understanding of empathy
Speaker 2: and of each other. Like all those things come into
Speaker 2: play when you when you create music, especially when you
Speaker 2: work together. So making a kind of music, making a
Speaker 2: music tools seem like the right choice.
Speaker 1: So cool, and so it's all encompassing, it's from the
Speaker 1: ground up, it's its own thing.
Speaker 2: It's its own thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's it's an after school music and mentorship progress.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I opted out of working with the school system.
Speaker 2: I thought that's smart. Going to stay out of it.
Speaker 2: It's just there's so much bureaucracy total, so I thought,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to do something independently of it. And
Speaker 2: it's for at risk and our serve children youth. So
Speaker 2: socioeconomic is the first barrier to break down, but obviously
Speaker 2: social emotional as well. But it's completely free, always has been,
Speaker 2: always will be. And we started with two hundred kids
Speaker 2: in a pilot project and there's now over twelve hundred
Speaker 2: students a year over three schools in three different cities.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an incredible thing to be part of. Like
Speaker 2: I can be having the crappiest day and all going
Speaker 2: to the school and everybody's happy and smiling and talking
Speaker 2: and laughing and every room has different music being made
Speaker 2: and it's just very joyful.
Speaker 1: That's so great.
Speaker 4: It's all over the map.
Speaker 2: In terms of the curriculums, it's very flow like it's
Speaker 2: depending on six kids to one teacher, and the whole
Speaker 2: first year is all fundamental, so they kind of come
Speaker 2: in and they learn every instrument them and just kind
Speaker 2: of get a bit of a foundation, and then they
Speaker 2: branch off into various instruments and if they want private lessons,
Speaker 2: they can have that.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 4: So you don't have to start that way? Does it
Speaker 4: start at young age and go all the way?
Speaker 2: So the school's grade four through twelve, But we have
Speaker 2: a pretty vibrant alumni program too, because you know, eighteen
Speaker 2: kids time out of the system total, and all of
Speaker 2: a sudden they're adults and they're they're not and there
Speaker 2: needs to be a bridge.
Speaker 1: And is it at this point?
Speaker 4: Is it like a nonprofit that you raise have to
Speaker 4: raise money for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, our annual operating budget three point two million.
Speaker 6: It's not cheap.
Speaker 4: Wow, So if anybody wants to donate to it, Yeah, they're.
Speaker 2: A school of music dot com.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 2: We have a five oh one C three here in
Speaker 2: the States, Friends of Seramaclauchlands Society, which you can donate
Speaker 2: to here in the States and you get a fully
Speaker 2: refundable or tax receipt. And yeah, it's I mean, I've
Speaker 2: been fundraising for the last twenty four years for it.
Speaker 2: You know, some years it's like all the gigs I do,
Speaker 2: money goes into the fund in the foundation goes like
Speaker 2: oh sure, okay, I gotta go do another gig.
Speaker 4: Yeah that sounds amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really really fun.
Speaker 4: To be part of the school next time.
Speaker 2: I'm oh there please, Yeah, if you want to come
Speaker 2: do a little workshop or anything like that, I would
Speaker 2: hook you up in a hot second. I'm not a
Speaker 2: great teacher.
Speaker 1: I don't know if i'd be a good teacher.
Speaker 2: I'm a terrible teacher.
Speaker 1: Too fun to do something.
Speaker 2: Just talk to kids, talk to some of the high
Speaker 2: school or as I said, like, there's a few who
Speaker 2: really do want to pursue music and it's really good
Speaker 2: for them to be able to talk to someone who's
Speaker 2: in the industry and you know, understands the challenges and
Speaker 2: just you know, have someone to shoot the ship with.
Speaker 4: Totally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, most of the kids just they just want a
Speaker 2: safe place to come and they get fed every day
Speaker 2: and and have.
Speaker 1: A community, to have a place to go after school.
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of their parents, if they have two parents,
Speaker 2: they're both working, you know, and they come home to
Speaker 2: an empty house and there's no food sometimes. And you know,
Speaker 2: we had a couple of years ago there was a mom.
Speaker 2: We didn't know what was going on, and she was
Speaker 2: living in the car, living in her car with her daughter.
Speaker 11: You know.
Speaker 2: So one of the cool things as well as we
Speaker 2: have a lot of community partners and we're able to
Speaker 2: offer assistance in other ways.
Speaker 4: It's a community.
Speaker 1: It's very much about the music even it's very much
Speaker 1: a communi community safe place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard being a teenager. It's isolating and lonely,
Speaker 2: and entire social media is awful.
Speaker 4: I'm terrified of my kids getting to that place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it's so scary. There's so besieged. Yea
Speaker 2: constantly with negativity and misinformation.
Speaker 1: And you raised two girls, raised two daughters, and they
Speaker 1: were right at the perfect age for it to be
Speaker 1: extra Yeah.
Speaker 2: So my firstborn was just it was at the beginning
Speaker 2: of social media, and she was deeply affected.
Speaker 1: The wild West.
Speaker 2: It was well, it still is, honestly it still is.
Speaker 2: And my little one, because I think she had dance,
Speaker 2: she was just too busy to be so involved in it.
Speaker 2: But my my firstborn for sure got taken a little
Speaker 2: bit more by it and was really influenced by it,
Speaker 2: and you know, felt judged, and which is the social
Speaker 2: media is a rating system, right, So post your picture
Speaker 2: in a bikini, you get a hundred likes. You post
Speaker 2: a picture in a turtleneck and you're like, oh, why
Speaker 2: are you so boring, like so messed up. Oh god,
Speaker 2: you know, I just think about how easily influenced I
Speaker 2: was as a teenager and as a young adult. I'm
Speaker 2: so thankful I didn't have.
Speaker 1: To deal with that same The Lilith Fair documentary is
Speaker 1: that out?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's yeah, premunitate a tiff last week, okay,
Speaker 2: last Sunday, I think, and which was super exciting. It's amazing,
Speaker 2: Like I obviously have seen all the iterations of it
Speaker 2: as we were editing, but to watch it on the
Speaker 2: big screen, Yeah, there's this weird kind of disconnect for me.
Speaker 1: Of like, I know that's me.
Speaker 4: I was wondering how that felt.
Speaker 2: Obviously this like massive pride and like just I still
Speaker 2: can't quite put into words how cool it is to
Speaker 2: have something that you were part of encapsulated and in
Speaker 2: such a beautiful, succinct manner in a motion picture, basically
Speaker 2: a talking ventry for all to see. And it's so
Speaker 2: joyful and beautiful and you know, and of course, you
Speaker 2: know you talked about all we talked about, all the challenges,
Speaker 2: all the things that people wanted it to be or
Speaker 2: didn't want it to be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, did you have to fight through a lot?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I had to defend it every step
Speaker 2: of the way every day.
Speaker 1: What year was the first little nineteen ninety seven, so
Speaker 1: it was the year Surfacing came out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, literally the Servicing came out I think a
Speaker 2: week after the first show at the Gorge.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which was crazy because I had never you know,
Speaker 2: didn't really know how to headline a festival. And I
Speaker 2: was so excited about the new record that we played
Speaker 2: the whole new record at the end of a long
Speaker 2: day of music. Now you as a musician, well, no,
Speaker 2: that probably didn't go over very well because it didn't
Speaker 2: nobody knew.
Speaker 1: But they were so excited and they're such great songs.
Speaker 9: Yeah, but.
Speaker 2: You know, they were tired and they wanted the stuff
Speaker 2: that they were familiar with. So it fell flat on
Speaker 2: his face, and I was like, I just really I
Speaker 2: felt I just just my part my performance at the
Speaker 2: end of the night. I think I was probably exhausted too,
Speaker 2: because you know, you're trying to maintain your energy over
Speaker 2: the entire day and you're basically you know, you're up
Speaker 2: in the morning, it's go, go, go the whole day.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we quickly pivoted and put a bunch of
Speaker 2: older material back in and then it was off to
Speaker 2: the races. But yeah, that it was an incredible time
Speaker 2: that that record just I think very much because of
Speaker 2: Lilith and just getting out to this massive audience that
Speaker 2: I would never have been able to play in front
Speaker 2: of it if it hadn't been for all of us
Speaker 2: agreeing and sharing our audiences and bringing our you know,
Speaker 2: bringing ourselves together and to have way bigger audiences. What
Speaker 2: was your moment where you had the idea the year
Speaker 2: before I wanted to do some shows in the summer.
Speaker 2: I felt like, I don't want to have all the responsibility.
Speaker 2: I don't want to do a big tour. Wouldn't it
Speaker 2: be nice if maybe we have Paula Cole come again.
Speaker 2: Guy had opened up, Paula Cold opened up for me,
Speaker 2: and there's all these other artists that are so cool.
Speaker 4: You just want to hang out.
Speaker 2: I just want to hang out. Like it's a weird business, right,
Speaker 2: you know. We're surrounded by men and I love I
Speaker 2: love my guys, I love my band, I love my crew,
Speaker 2: But I just thought this is I missed that that
Speaker 2: community that I think exists out there, and I want
Speaker 2: to be able to talk to my peers about this
Speaker 2: crazy job that we have and I want to sing
Speaker 2: with him too, so let's be honest. So, you know,
Speaker 2: putting it together, there was like we talked to a
Speaker 2: couple of promoters that we knew really well, and they're like, well, okay,
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is going to work because
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to put to and back to back
Speaker 2: on a tour. I'm like, well, I yeah, you laugh
Speaker 2: out loud, but I already had done that.
Speaker 11: I had to fight.
Speaker 2: That's what I had to fight is. So we we
Speaker 2: incurred all the risk, the financial risk. We did four shows,
Speaker 2: everyone sold out and it was very successful. So then
Speaker 2: we went, this is amazing, this is so much fun.
Speaker 2: Let's do it next summer as a full, full tour. Okay,
Speaker 2: like all these other you know, festivals are completely male dominated,
Speaker 2: Like why are women being represented there? You know, there's
Speaker 2: all these women having huge success in their own genres
Speaker 2: of music, So we'll just do it ourselves.
Speaker 4: It was massive, and then all.
Speaker 2: The promoters were like, oh no, no, no, you can't
Speaker 2: do that. I'm like, well, we just did, and we
Speaker 2: sold out all these you sold out these four markets
Speaker 2: as a test run, and like, well, yeah, but no,
Speaker 2: I don't think you can. I'm like, you know, so
Speaker 2: when someone tells me I can't.
Speaker 4: Eight, wow, yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2: And you know that was my mother, you know, in
Speaker 2: the back of my head, going why would you even try?
Speaker 2: You're going to fail? You know, you can't, you can't
Speaker 2: do this. Don't don't go thinking anything special. And honestly,
Speaker 2: that was the thing that propelled me, is like, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna prove I want to prove my mother wrong that
Speaker 2: I wasn't gonna with my record late, with my record contract,
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to come home pregnant or on drugs.
Speaker 2: And you know, because that was her thing. It's like, well,
Speaker 2: you're just gonna you're gonna fail and you're gonna, oh,
Speaker 2: you're going to mess up your life. And yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean that that language that was her cross to bear,
Speaker 2: you know, like she was just very afraid for me,
Speaker 2: and that's how it was articulated. But I wanted to
Speaker 2: prove her wrong. And I came back ninety later with
Speaker 2: a record.
Speaker 12: Now look, no no needle marks, moms still good, oh man.
Speaker 2: But so the same thing with all these guys saying
Speaker 2: you can't do that, I'm like, well we just did
Speaker 2: and fuck you.
Speaker 1: So the year is nineteen ninety seven and I got
Speaker 1: dropped off at college in Denton, Texas, and I'm have
Speaker 1: gone out for food or something, and I didn't know anybody,
Speaker 1: and I, well, that's a lie.
Speaker 4: I didn't know people.
Speaker 1: But at that night, that night, I was alone, and
Speaker 1: I came back and I remember being in the parking
Speaker 1: lot of my new dorm in my car and I
Speaker 1: was listening to the college radio and Angel comes on
Speaker 1: and I will never forget hearing a song for the
Speaker 1: first time as much as that song Wow, because it
Speaker 1: was it was like the stars were out. It was
Speaker 1: just a crazy moment in my life. And the song
Speaker 1: is just, you know, one of the best songs I think,
Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, it's just I love it. It's such
Speaker 1: a beautiful song, thank You. And I don't you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about how it came to be
Speaker 1: or how you recorded it. I I just knew that
Speaker 1: it hit me right right in the heart that night,
Speaker 1: and I've just always loved you since then.
Speaker 9: Oh thank you.
Speaker 2: Well, honestly, that's kind of how it came out. That's
Speaker 2: that's what it sounds like. I have never been prolific
Speaker 2: at all. My writing is slow, painful process, especially lyrics.
Speaker 2: And I had, actually I had read a Rolling Stone
Speaker 2: article about Jonathan Melvoyn, the keyboard player from Smashing Pumpkins
Speaker 2: who died odid on Heroin, and I had just come
Speaker 2: off the road of two and a half years. I
Speaker 2: was exhausted. The record label was screaming for a new record,
Speaker 2: and so I sequestered myself away in a little cotage
Speaker 2: in the Laurentis Kitana mcgarrigle's cottage and tried to write.
Speaker 2: And you know, I couldn't or I was blocked. So
Speaker 2: I went and got a bunch of magazines and started reading. Anyway,
Speaker 2: so I read this article and I just had this
Speaker 2: flood of overwhelm and empathy and sadness and understanding. I've
Speaker 2: never done Heroin, I never will, but just that desperate
Speaker 2: need to find some kind of release and some kind
Speaker 2: of escape. And that song came out in like a
Speaker 2: day and a half start to finish, and the best
Speaker 2: one is, don't you think opened? I was merely a vessel,
Speaker 2: you know, I just the universe opened up and I
Speaker 2: got to be the conduit. And it's it's still one
Speaker 2: of my very favorite songs, like I never tire of
Speaker 2: playing it, I'm tired of hearing it. I think the
Speaker 2: energy that has been created by going out in the
Speaker 2: world like I've had over the years sick so many
Speaker 2: people like connect with it and so many different profound levels,
Speaker 2: you know, and hard times in their life when it's
Speaker 2: like this was this is what we played when my
Speaker 2: mother passed, and as hard as it was, it gave
Speaker 2: us comfort. And you know that's I could see that
Speaker 2: amazing validation as an artist, to know that you've created
Speaker 2: something that has gone out in the world and in
Speaker 2: some small way made someone's really tough time a little easier.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it has for so many people. And of course
Speaker 1: the ASPCA can a.
Speaker 2: Whole lot of dogs and cats, a whole lot of animals.
Speaker 1: They raised so much money with that campaign.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it kind of changed the face of
Speaker 2: fundraising a little bit. I had no idea, honestly, you know,
Speaker 2: I had a couple of hours free and my friend
Speaker 2: was on the board said, hey, totally, you're thinking about
Speaker 2: having a celebrity endorsemen.
Speaker 5: You want to do this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love animals, I'll do this, Honestly, I had
Speaker 2: and then you pair the song with those images. It's
Speaker 2: like just and I remember, you know, I was this
Speaker 2: is what I'm like, I'm kind of a goofball, and
Speaker 2: I remember the director just going I'm just a little
Speaker 2: more earnest, you know. I'm like, oh, fuck, this is
Speaker 2: killing me, you know. And then of course memes are created.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh I didn't. I didn't say the memes.
Speaker 2: But no, it's funny, you know. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: I remember someone said, oh, I'm Sara McLaughlin and I'm
Speaker 2: about to ruin your day.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, that's funny, but you gotta take it.
Speaker 14: Damn.
Speaker 1: You got to take it because it worked.
Speaker 2: Yep, it worked really really well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I love this song, and I asked you
Speaker 1: if you would, if you would consider doing a song
Speaker 1: from that album. You could.
Speaker 4: You could have said any song from that album. I
Speaker 4: know them all so well. So I'm glad you picked
Speaker 4: this song.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you wanna do you want to sing the second verse?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, do the whole second verse for me.
Speaker 1: Okay, I might cry, but I'm gonna try not to. Okay,
Speaker 1: what about the last chorus? Do you want to? Do
Speaker 1: you mind if I sneak in on a harmony, okay,
Speaker 1: because I've only practiced that harmony, you know, for a
Speaker 1: few times twenty something else.
Speaker 2: I want to hear you sing wherever you want to sing.
Speaker 4: It's in D flat, also a key.
Speaker 1: Do you do it lower?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I've dumbed it down to D because
Speaker 2: oh that's up even yeah, dang girl, Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know what the hell I was thinking.
Speaker 1: It's really hard because you have a very high crystal voice,
Speaker 1: and I was actually singing along. I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know if my voice can go that high.
Speaker 2: Anyway, if I can anymore.
Speaker 4: But also I was wondering, like that break in your voice,
Speaker 4: you know that, I don't know what you call it.
Speaker 2: It it's like a glottal stop or whatever goes from
Speaker 2: It's not a yodel, but it's it kind of is though,
Speaker 2: pushing from from chest into head.
Speaker 4: Have you always had that? Is that something you sort
Speaker 4: of like worked on at a sort of.
Speaker 2: You know, quite honestly, I stole that from Peter Gabriel. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's awesome, not gonna lie. I was like, how does
Speaker 2: he do that? And I just found a way and like,
Speaker 2: oh I can do that too. That's cultivated. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: tucked it.
Speaker 4: I asked Gillian Welsh once where her yodel came from.
Speaker 1: She said, she said she taught herself to do that
Speaker 1: on a long cross country trip. Once.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, I didn't know I could like
Speaker 4: learn to do that. I guess it's a muscle.
Speaker 1: You just got to chain it.
Speaker 2: You just got It's like pushing and pulling in there.
Speaker 2: I don't know quite how I was to describe it,
Speaker 2: but all right, I don't know how I would explain it.
Speaker 6: But no, you don't need to.
Speaker 4: Also, you know you don't want to force it.
Speaker 2: It's natural.
Speaker 5: You spend a higher time waiting.
Speaker 11: For that second chance, for the bright thown may it okay?
Speaker 6: So it's some reason.
Speaker 5: To feel luck good enough, And it's hard be.
Speaker 8: And day.
Speaker 5: Needs serve distraction.
Speaker 8: Hard beautiful release.
Speaker 5: The receep from her veins.
Speaker 9: They empty.
Speaker 5: Hot Samby for.
Speaker 6: Some peace and name.
Speaker 5: In thesly agent.
Speaker 14: W free.
Speaker 13: On miss too Chi.
Speaker 5: In Thestness stache Fee.
Speaker 11: You are.
Speaker 5: From the Rickae on your sign three. You're in the
Speaker 5: Arsly Angel for.
Speaker 11: So comfort, so tired along the straight line.
Speaker 6: And every way.
Speaker 5: There's vultures and thieves at your back. The storm keeps
Speaker 5: some twist.
Speaker 11: You keep on building lines that you make up for
Speaker 11: all that you lack.
Speaker 5: You don't make all.
Speaker 14: Difference escaping one last, it's easier to believe in this
Speaker 14: sweet mans on its body saddays that brings me to Manies.
Speaker 10: In the arms of the age.
Speaker 13: Free from this time, cor Holital.
Speaker 2: And we.
Speaker 5: Set sach fig.
Speaker 14: Ah.
Speaker 11: You are.
Speaker 5: From ang the wreckage. We have sun.
Speaker 13: Round three, you're in themsy ancient.
Speaker 1: We f.
Speaker 5: So comfort.
Speaker 13: Yeah, so.
Speaker 12: He thank you so much, beautiful, thank you, oh, thank you.
Speaker 9: I love you.
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna say it.
Speaker 1: I know we've only met once before, but okay, we
Speaker 1: got I love you so much shared, thanks for doing
Speaker 1: shared things. Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, my pleasure. Your dream really fun good good?
Speaker 1: Oh that was so fun, God, so beautiful, what a dream?
Speaker 1: That was amazing. That was a high up song. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I might have cried a little, did you one single?
Speaker 4: Tier down my cheek just a wonder. Yeah, that was
Speaker 4: a real honor. You know, she wanted to do songs
Speaker 4: from her new album.
Speaker 1: And I was totally stoked, and I said, you know,
Speaker 1: if there's any way you could maybe do something from
Speaker 1: surfacing with me. It was just a really huge album
Speaker 1: for me at that time. She was like, oh cool,
Speaker 1: I think Angel makes the most sense and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, I was so happy.
Speaker 1: Thanks Sarah. If you'd like to know what songs we
Speaker 1: played in this episode, the first one was called Only
Speaker 1: Human from Sarah's album Better Broken, released in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: The second song was the title track from that same album,
Speaker 1: Better Broken. The third song was Angel from the album Surfacing,
Speaker 1: released in nineteen ninety seven. Special thanks to Sarah McLaughlin
Speaker 1: for joining us today. Nor Jones Is Playing Along is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host Nora Jones.
Speaker 1: Visit Nora Jones channel and be sure to subscribe while
Speaker 1: you're there. This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed
Speaker 1: by Jamie Landry, Audio post production and mastering by Greg Tobler.
Speaker 1: Additional video by Kay Loggins. Artwork by Eliza Frye. Photography
Speaker 1: by Shervin Linnez. Produced by Nora Jones and Sarah Oda.
Speaker 1: Executive producers Aaron Wang Kaufman and Jordan Rundog. Marketing lead
Speaker 1: Queen and Akey. Thanks a lot for listening.