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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Now I can do a more formal introduction to the

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Speaker 2: former US Secretary of State John Carry, also co executive

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Speaker 2: chair of Galvanized Climate Solutions. Secretary Carry, good to see you, sir,

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Speaker 2: Glad to start again. We're starting, can I'll be more rugby.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to see you, you know I am.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, sir.

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Speaker 2: The new president says, drill, baby, drill. I want to

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Speaker 2: understand how you feel about that and what kind of

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Speaker 2: trajectory you think we might be going on through the

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Speaker 2: next four years.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think I think the President's correct that we

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Speaker 3: need an abundance of what we call firm energy. We

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Speaker 3: need to make sure that America is leading in the

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Speaker 3: technologies of this transition to new energy, clean energy. But

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Speaker 3: I would say that build baby builders, I mean, drill

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Speaker 3: baby drill ought to be replaced by build baby build,

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Speaker 3: because that's what we need to do in all aspects

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Speaker 3: of energy. There will be higher demand. He's absolutely correct,

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Speaker 3: and I'm glad to see a five hundred million dollar

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Speaker 3: infrastructure announced because that's going to be the key to

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Speaker 3: our doing it, and it's going to be the key

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Speaker 3: to leading in AI butt and there's a huge butt

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Speaker 3: data centers demand a massive amount of energy, and that's

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Speaker 3: going to become very competitive. Will that energy be provided

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Speaker 3: by clean energy or is it going to just add

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Speaker 3: to the problem we have of a warming planet with

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Speaker 3: increased intensity to our storms, more damage all around the world.

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Speaker 3: We haven't suddenly lost the connection between the choices we

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Speaker 3: make about how we provide energy and its impact just

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Speaker 3: because we elected a new president. So we've got to

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Speaker 3: stay tuned into the science. We have to stay tuned

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Speaker 3: into the marketplace, and the marketplace is going to move

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Speaker 3: predominantly in the direction of new energy to win. Last year,

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Speaker 3: about almost two trillion dollars went into venture capital for

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Speaker 3: new energy clean energy systems. One trillion went into fossil fueld.

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Speaker 3: That's a two to one first time ever shift in

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Speaker 3: the marketplace. And if you look at what's happening in

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Speaker 3: that marketplace, other technologies are coming on like wind Texas,

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Speaker 3: the home of fossil fuelds in America that is now

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Speaker 3: the leading state for the deployment of wind turbines. So

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Speaker 3: I think the marketplace is going to continue to invest

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Speaker 3: in moving this direction on a global basis.

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Speaker 2: Is that the marketplace or government intervention.

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Speaker 3: That's the marketplace. It's happening all around the world. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I've been recently in the Far East in Singapore, and

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Speaker 3: recently also in the Middle East. In most of the

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Speaker 3: Middle Eastern countries, everyone is engaged in this transition. UA

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Speaker 3: a major producer of oil and gas, is also a

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Speaker 3: major producer of new nuclear plants. They've got four new

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Speaker 3: nuclear plants. They have a vast array of solar one

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Speaker 3: of the largest fields in the world, and they are

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Speaker 3: determined to have a higher level of energy produced by

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Speaker 3: renewable energy.

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Speaker 1: As a build on what John is talking about. I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about, let's say the electric vehicle credits, and there

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Speaker 1: was this idea that we would really transition people to

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Speaker 1: vehicles that were considered cleaner. And yet China did it

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Speaker 1: successfully because they have the resources to do that. The

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Speaker 1: United States doesn't. They need to import them, and it

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Speaker 1: actually makes it in the US more dependent on other places,

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Speaker 1: or some of the government policies misguided in what was

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Speaker 1: necessary to actually tackle the problem. From an economic perspective.

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Speaker 3: I think we've worked very hard to open up new

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Speaker 3: supply trains, and we did open up new supply trains

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Speaker 3: India as an example, we were invested at about five

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Speaker 3: hundred million dollars in trying to build, not trying to

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Speaker 3: in building the largest production plant in the world. And yes,

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Speaker 3: China has in fact captured much of that market, and

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Speaker 3: they captured it frankly with unfair trade practices, which is

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons that's a legitimate issue between us

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Speaker 3: and them, and we have to work that out. Solar

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Speaker 3: was really worked on and developed by the United States

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Speaker 3: and Germany, and then China stepped in. There was a

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Speaker 3: massive amount of dumping into our country and the production

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Speaker 3: gravitated towards China. But today China is now I mean,

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Speaker 3: many people complain, including the president. President said China is

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Speaker 3: not doing what it should be doing well. China is

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Speaker 3: the largest producer of renewable energy and deployer of renewable

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Speaker 3: energy anywhere in the world, including more than all the

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Speaker 3: rest of the world put together. So China is now

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Speaker 3: commanding the market just by virtue of its production level.

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Speaker 3: We need to get into that and compete.

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Speaker 1: But it raises this question national security versus cleaner energy.

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Speaker 1: It kind of pits two of your babies together. It

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Speaker 1: sort of raises this question which do you prioritize.

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Speaker 3: The climate crisis is a national security crisis. The fact

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Speaker 3: there's are about thirty nine million people wandering around Africa

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Speaker 3: elsewhere trying to knock on the door of places where

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Speaker 3: they think they can live because they can't live there anymore.

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Speaker 3: They can't produce the food anymore. It's getting too hot,

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Speaker 3: you can't work outdoors, so that's going to increase that challenge.

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Speaker 3: We had about a million people come in from the

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Speaker 3: desert into Damascus, which changed the dynamic of the Arab

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Speaker 3: spring end of the war in Syria. So there's a linkage.

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Speaker 3: What happens when water starts being reduced in spread, what

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Speaker 3: happens when the food basket of Africa implodes because they

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Speaker 3: can't grow it anymore. These are real threats that smart

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Speaker 3: people are spending a lot of time analyzing and understanding,

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Speaker 3: and within the Pentagon, the Pentagon has called the climate

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Speaker 3: crisis a threat multiplier. It presents serious challenges to all

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Speaker 3: of us and we need to treat it like the

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Speaker 3: security issue that it really is.

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Speaker 2: You understand to Lisa's point that we have become more

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Speaker 2: dependent on an adversary, on China for all the reasons

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Speaker 2: that you describe, and yet we have some of these

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Speaker 2: critical minerals, these resources within the United States. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: you're familiar with the resolution copper deposit that Rio's explored.

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Speaker 2: It's ready to go, can support twenty five percent of

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Speaker 2: the copper demands of the United States of America, and

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Speaker 2: yet for some reason it's been dragging along and hasn't

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Speaker 2: been green lit in a way that it should be.

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Speaker 3: We have a problem in the United States, which I

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Speaker 3: hope will be cured. It's a bipartisan challenge. We need

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Speaker 3: Republicans and Democrats alike to come together in order to

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Speaker 3: do permitting reform. We have two thousand gigawayites, a huge

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Speaker 3: amount of energy, almost as much as China has today.

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Speaker 3: We have that backed up at Firk Energy Regulatory Commission

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Speaker 3: that has not been improved over these years. Why politics?

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Speaker 3: So I hope we're going to get the politics out

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Speaker 3: of the way, and I think President Trump understands that

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Speaker 3: that is a way to accelerate the deployment of the

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Speaker 3: energy that he has.

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Speaker 2: Now said it didn't happen under a democratic president.

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Speaker 3: Didn't politics?

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Speaker 4: Why didn't the immigration bill? Why didn't the immigration bill

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Speaker 4: that had been put together with you know lang Senator

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Speaker 4: Langford from Oklahoma, he worked hard at that.

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Speaker 3: It was bipartisan, it was ready to be passed. And

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Speaker 3: President Trump then then, you know, former President Trump called

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Speaker 3: up and said, don't pass this. It will help the Democrats,

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Speaker 3: It'll help the divide administration look good. I don't want

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Speaker 3: to get themselves. Look, I'm not here the start of

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Speaker 3: this conversation.

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Speaker 2: Do you think do you think they helped themselves for

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Speaker 2: the last four years the Democrats over the last four years,

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Speaker 2: did the party help themselves?

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Speaker 3: I think there were serious questions about the message and

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Speaker 3: so forth. I'm not here to be political. I'm here

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Speaker 3: to talk about the energy crisis.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that something very political about this crisis? Though it

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Speaker 2: is by.

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Speaker 3: Starting nation, it seems to have been weaponized, and unfortunately

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Speaker 3: that's a loss for all Americans. For instance, if you decide,

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Speaker 3: as President has to pull out of Paris, we are

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Speaker 3: not at the table. We lose the leverage of being

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Speaker 3: at the table. We lose the protection of our country

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Speaker 3: in terms of something that might be passed or not

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Speaker 3: passed by not being at the table. Moreover, you know,

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Speaker 3: last time he pulled out, there was only one person

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Speaker 3: in the entire world. Of all the leaders in the

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Speaker 3: world that pulled out of the Paris Agreement. And by

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Speaker 3: the way, the Paris Agreement was still implemented in the

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Speaker 3: United States because we have thirty seven governors who implement

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Speaker 3: renewable portfolio laws and they did that. We had over

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Speaker 3: one thousand mayors joined into something called the worst still

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Speaker 3: in movement. And that's exactly what's going to happen now.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, and this Bloomberg obviously understands better

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Speaker 3: than anybody, the power of the marketplace is what is

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Speaker 3: going to make determinations. Air oil is a commodity and

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Speaker 3: hasn't really changed much in price for over one hundred years.

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Speaker 3: But technology is what is really driving these changes that

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Speaker 3: are taking place. And I think rather than being driven

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Speaker 3: by commodity prices, this revolution is going to be driven

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Speaker 3: by technology prices, which are now lower than the prices

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Speaker 3: of fossil fuel.

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Speaker 1: You've been a big proponent of not exceeding this one

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Speaker 1: point five degree increase in the global climate. You've said

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Speaker 1: that you think we're going to blow past it. You're

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Speaker 1: working with Tom Steyer of Galvanies try to raise money.

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Speaker 3: There's been a huge.

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Speaker 1: Vibe shift away from ESG where people are saying, well,

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Speaker 1: if we can't solve it, whatever, how do you sort

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Speaker 1: of see the enthusiasm to invest in things that have

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Speaker 1: been highly politicized.

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Speaker 3: Really, that is a great question. I'm really glad you

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Speaker 3: asked it, because it's central to what we're doing. Nothing

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Speaker 3: that we're doing is based on reliance on the government

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Speaker 3: to do something, or reliance on a subsidy of some kind.

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Speaker 3: We're not in there to find or to be the

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Speaker 3: source of concessionary funding or to find the concessionary funding.

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Speaker 3: We are investing in portfolio companies that have the ability

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Speaker 3: to affect this transition just on basic fundamentals of business,

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Speaker 3: just looking at the marketplace, and we will show people how,

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Speaker 3: in fact, and there are other companies doing this now,

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Speaker 3: how this transition will allow you to invest and make

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Speaker 3: money and you will be able to make better returns

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Speaker 3: than some other things that are out there today. That's

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Speaker 3: the basis of this investing. And when the market sees

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Speaker 3: the way that a whole bunch of people are in

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Speaker 3: fact turning this around making money, AI is going to

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Speaker 3: be a big part of this. Geothermal may be a

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Speaker 3: part of it, but you need all of the above

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Speaker 3: investment effort now because the science is telling us we

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Speaker 3: have to move faster, and ultimately that demand is going

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Speaker 3: to change people's attitude about this. You know, electric vehicles

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Speaker 3: grew by fivefold last year, in sales grew by about

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Speaker 3: fourfold last year. Solar has now had a sixty percent

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Speaker 3: reduction in price. So whereas oil is affected by the

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Speaker 3: economy as a commodity, the renewable portfolios are going to

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Speaker 3: be affected by the technology change which is lowering their cost.

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Speaker 3: And I'll tell you what right now, there is no

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Speaker 3: question but that the reduction and price of wind and solar,

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Speaker 3: and the new fibers that's available to transmit higher levels

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Speaker 3: of energy at much lower cost, all of these things

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Speaker 3: are coming together to say it is cheaper one point

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Speaker 3: seven cents per kilowatt hour in some contracts that being

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Speaker 3: let now on solar. So I think the marketplace is

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Speaker 3: going to make this decision, and no one person.

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Speaker 2: You'll feel me to jumping in because we're up against

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Speaker 2: the clocks. But I just wanted to fit in one

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Speaker 2: final question because your voice is important on this issue.

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Speaker 2: Are you encouraged by recent developments in the Middle East

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Speaker 2: and the agreement strung between Hamas and Israel.

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Speaker 3: Well, obviously, I think it's great that we've got an

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Speaker 3: agreement that a lot of people worked extremely hard on

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Speaker 3: for some period of time. Things are always tentative and

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Speaker 3: difficult in that part of the world. A lot will

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Speaker 3: depend on the government of Israel and how it approaches

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Speaker 3: the future. I saw a debate this morning on TV

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Speaker 3: about the meaning of the West Bank and if efforts

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Speaker 3: are made, I think to move to the sort of

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Speaker 3: greater Samaria today, a Samaria philosophy. Without resolving what's going

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Speaker 3: to happen in the long term governance, it's going to

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Speaker 3: be a real problem. So hopefully wiser heads will prevail

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Speaker 3: people to move forward. But you have to begin to build,

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Speaker 3: build in building box. This is the first step, build

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Speaker 3: a little confidence, make some things happen, but then hopefully

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Speaker 3: have a shared vision for the long term future of

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Speaker 3: Gaza and of the West Bank, and obviously for Israel's security,

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Speaker 3: which is paramount. You've got to be able to resolve

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Speaker 3: that as you move forward.

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Speaker 2: I think we all share that hope. Thanks for being

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Speaker 2: with us, Sir, I appreciate your time as always to

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Speaker 2: be here with you. Don't carry that The former US

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Speaker 2: Secretary of state