1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: I've always believed that I'd like to think of myself 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: as strong and straightforward and direct. But I don't think 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: you ever win by goading people or carry people down. 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to off the Cup, my personal anti 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: anxiety antidote. Today we're talking to someone who is so 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 2: good at talking about anything. Seriously, He's one of the 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: best communicators, I think on the planet. He's a master marketer, 8 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: a TV host, host of On Brand with Donnie Deutsch. 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: I guess that gives it away, and just someone I 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 2: love talking to. 11 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 3: Donnie Deutsch, Welcome, thanks for having me. 12 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: I see, I appreciate it. I'm such a big fan. 13 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: I love the work you do, and so it's an 14 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 1: honor to be here. 15 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 3: Oh I love that. 16 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: Right back at jam, let's start at the top with 17 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: you have done something amazing. You have made branding your brand, 18 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 2: and I can't really think of anyone else who's done that. 19 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 2: I feel like you're in a category of your own. 20 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: Do you feel like you created a category interesting? You know? 21 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's interesting. Brand is such a prevalent term. 22 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: I mean we're all brands. Yeah, I mean, if you 23 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: have a Facebook page, you're a brand. A brand is 24 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: a set of values, what you stand for, what you believe. 25 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: So we're all yes every day. You know, we always 26 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: think traditionally if a brand is you know, Kellogg Cereal, 27 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: But everything is a brand. Every person, every athlete, every movement, 28 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: every political party, every politician, We're all brands. And so 29 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: I have created this unique space as the guy who 30 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: kind of you know, talks about it and has a 31 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 1: lot of experience. Obviously, I spent twenty five years building 32 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: an agency. So I love that I'm able to bring 33 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: that and talk about that through lensing it through politics 34 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: and pop culture and other things like that, because that's 35 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: what I bring to the table, and I think other 36 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: people don't. 37 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 2: You're right, Like when I was coming up, even me, 38 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: you know, twenty years in was aware of like creating 39 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: a brand when I was coming up as a writer 40 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: and then started doing TV, and I was aware of it. 41 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: I didn't know how to do it, but I was 42 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: aware that I should probably be a thing with a 43 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: well fought out plan. But it just feels like maybe 44 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: you know this intuitively branding because. 45 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: You speak off the kuff about it a lot. 46 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of do. It's in my blood. I 47 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: don't you know. I don't know why, I don't know how. 48 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: You know, the key to understand, the key to what 49 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: make great brands is authenticity, honesty, consistency, staying true to 50 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: core values. You know, the great brands over time don't deviate. 51 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: And so you know, a challenge for politician if you 52 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: want to have a strong brand is you can't be 53 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: flip flopping too often. You know. The one thing about 54 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: Trump and we know you and I both feel the 55 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: same way about him, and that's not very well. He 56 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: is very authentic to his brand, who he is, what 57 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: he's about, and that's one of the things that resonates. 58 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: And I think, by the way, I find most of 59 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: what his brand stands for is reprehensible. But I do 60 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: give him major points for being a master brander, starting 61 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: with starting with himself. 62 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 2: You know, I have I'm asked about this a lot 63 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: because sometimes it's in my shot. I have a giant 64 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: picture in my office. It's like five by five of 65 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: it's Al Gore playing flag football with his kids on 66 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 2: his front lawn. 67 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 3: And the story of this picture is twofold. 68 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: I'm working at the New York Times many years ago, 69 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: and we're in the old building, and these Pulitzer Prize 70 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: winning pictures are all over the place. Right, there's one 71 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: of like Champion Yankees and da da dah. This one 72 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: happens to be over my workspace for the entirety of 73 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: my time there. And when we moved to the new building, 74 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 2: they said, you can have one of these, like you 75 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: can take one of these homes. 76 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 3: So I took this one home. 77 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: The story of this photo is this is about two 78 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: days after the two thousand election, and you know this, 79 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: we didn't have a president yet. We had to do 80 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: a recall. But his people told him go outside on 81 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: your front lawn, play football with your kids. It'll look 82 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 2: like you're confident. And of course all it did was 83 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: look like a photo op. It looked packaged, and that's 84 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 2: all the press talked about, which was this like photo 85 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: op and how inauthentic it looked. And it was sort 86 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: of a punctuation on a camp pain that was not 87 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: very authentical. 88 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: Was that a lot of people felt, Yeah, a lot 89 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: of people. 90 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. It was his thing. 91 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: That was the criticism of al Gore that he just 92 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: didn't feel authentic. He was likable enough, he was smart, 93 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: he had just been a vice president. He was good looking, 94 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: like there were reasons he should have worked. 95 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: It's interesting a lot of politicians post their main political 96 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: time find it. He found it afterwards through the Internet 97 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: and through environmentalism, And yeah, that was always Hillary's problem, 98 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: and she posts running for president. Now she has this 99 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: kind of I don't give a shit and I'll tell 100 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: it like it is and becomes incredibly more likable, more powerful, 101 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: and more credible. So I think that's just such a 102 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: key thing. And the ones, the politicians that like Bill 103 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: Clinton had it, Barack Obama had it, rob O Reagan 104 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: had it. The great ones have that. 105 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really interesting way to look at it. 106 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: And I always think about it when when I look 107 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 2: at that photo. 108 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: Just be authentic. 109 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 2: Even in my business, I find even when people are 110 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 2: disagreeing with me, they know I I'm speaking authentically as myself. 111 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: And I think that's important connecting with people. Let's go back, 112 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: Let's go back. What kind of kid were you? I 113 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 2: always like asking what kind of kid someone was. 114 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: I was a good kid. I had a really lucky, 115 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: happy upbringing. I have two great parents, you know, who 116 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: were married, stayed together. I grew up in Queen's kind 117 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: of middle to upper middle class. I mean I went 118 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: to a big high school, four thousand kids. You know, 119 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of a tough Queen's high school. So it 120 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: kind of made me a little bit of who I was. 121 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: But yet had everything at home, every privilege I could want. 122 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: So I had the best of all worlds I was. 123 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: I was a very popular kid. I was president of 124 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: my senior class. I had a really fortunate, happy, productive childhood. 125 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: I give it, and I have to, you know, give 126 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: the credit to my parents because they set the table 127 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: and so. But I was a funny kid. I was 128 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: getting in trouble, but not horrible trouble, just mischievous kind 129 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: of thing. What you would think, what you would think 130 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: I was like as a kid. I was a kid, Okay, 131 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: were you? 132 00:05:58,600 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 3: Were you ambitious? 133 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? 134 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: You know. 135 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: I didn't love studying in school. My parents, particularly when 136 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: my mother would push me, and I give her credit 137 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: for that. I found ambition after I went to college. 138 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: I went to Penn, I went to Wharton. I was 139 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: kind of the village idiot them. Yeah, I was the 140 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: village idiot. I don't know how I got into this day, 141 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: but somehow I snuck in the back door and I 142 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: found ambition kind of coming out of college. A lot 143 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: of my friends got fast starts. They went to Wall Street, 144 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: they were doing great. I was working for an ad agency, 145 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: Ladge agency, and then I was working for my father 146 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: who had an agency at the time, and I was 147 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: kind of fucking up and my father fired me. And 148 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: after that I came back and I found ambition. Now, 149 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: I kind of. I was at twenty four to twenty five. 150 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: I was like, shit, this is passing me by. And 151 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: I kind of went from there. 152 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 3: You grew up in Queens. 153 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: As you said, how important is New York to your identity? 154 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 2: Like would you be Donnie if you grew up in Phoenix? 155 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: No? Right now I am in New Yorker full through 156 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: all the good and all the gather comes with that, 157 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: and I own it proudly. I owed my Queen's heritage proudly. 158 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: You know. I remember getting in college the first day 159 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: and meeting all these kids that, you know, kind of 160 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: had their own BMW's and I didn't. I was like, 161 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: what that's your How how is that your car? I 162 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: don't even know understand that. But they were soft because 163 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: they grew up in very homogeneous you know, either all 164 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: preppy communities or all. You know, I don't use the 165 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: word bossington. All Jewish communities are all very white, brick communities. 166 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: And I grew up in a very integrated, on the 167 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: street school, and I just remember I couldn't wait to 168 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: play cars with them and take their money, you know. 169 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: And and because they didn't have but the one thing 170 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: they didn't have, they didn't have both the street smarts, 171 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: and they didn't have the same hunger I had. And yeah, 172 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: the challenge we all have, of course, our kids are 173 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: all growing up comfortably, is you don't want to rob 174 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,119 Speaker 1: your kids are the luxury of being hungry? Wow? 175 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the places you're describing is for sure. 176 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 2: The town my kid is growing up in. Where is 177 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: it Connecticut? 178 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: Okay? Okay, my kids growing up on the Upper East 179 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: Side of New York. So yeah, not not going to 180 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: be exposed to the same thing, you. 181 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 3: Know, they're not. Yeah, he's just not. 182 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: And I think about it a lot because I grew 183 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: up middle class, nothing handed to me. My parents both 184 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: worked really hard, and I think he just won't know 185 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: a lot of the things that I knew, and I 186 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: don't know that I can recreate it for him. 187 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: Can't do it. Doesn't that you could teach them great values. 188 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: It's just different. They're not exposed to the breadth of things. 189 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: They're not growing up hungry. I know kids from incredibly 190 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: affluent or very prominent families who are incredible hard workers 191 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: and achievers. And then I know the quintessential trust for 192 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: in idiots. You know. So it's not in absolutely the way, 193 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: but it makes it more challenging clearly. 194 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 195 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: And I always found growing up, I moved a lot, 196 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 2: and I went to a lot of different schools, private, public, Catholic, 197 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 2: all girls, you know, all kinds of schools. And I 198 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: found ambition was contagious. When I was in a school 199 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: where everyone wanted to be great, worked hard, had big goals, 200 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: were competitive, I took that on as well. And when 201 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: I was in schools where like being cool was more 202 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 2: cool than being smart, it was harder to be ambitious. 203 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 3: And so maybe it's just like an environmental too. 204 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: They've done a lot of studies on this, and that's 205 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: the they say. The most important thing about getting into 206 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: a good college is not the rigorous studying, is that 207 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: you'll be with a group of kids that will will 208 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: become selfulfilling prophecy of how much you strive that they've 209 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: done all kinds of psychological studies, not about college, but 210 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: about exactly what you're saying. Your peer set defines so much. Galloway, 211 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: who I like a lot of talks a lot of 212 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: Professor Scott Gallery talks. 213 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: A lot of you know, Oh okay, all right, I'm 214 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 3: onto something. Okay. 215 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 2: So in the eighties you join your father's firm. Was 216 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: that a choice of yours or his? 217 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: My I went first worked at a large agency ogil 218 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: Va May the left after a year, went it with 219 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: my dad as a small agency, and look, we were 220 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: able to kind of scale it and turn it into 221 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: a big agency. But I kind of stand on his 222 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: shoulders every day. He did the hard part to build 223 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: something from nothing. I don't care how much you scale. 224 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: You can build a one hundred x times. That's the 225 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: I have tremendous respect and I owe so much of 226 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: my success to him, because that's why I always I 227 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: always get angry at people in family businesses can't understand 228 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: that that doesn't mean you haven't also achieved, but you're 229 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: still standing on the founder shoulders and don't. 230 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 3: Right, don't ever forget that you didn't do the hardest part. 231 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: I didn't do that. I don't think I did the hardest. Yeah, 232 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: I think I give myself a a. I mean, I 233 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: built it to a really big, big, big, big agency. 234 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: But I still think he did the hardest part still, 235 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, grinding out from nothing. 236 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: The eighties New York advertising man. Yeah, my uncle wasn't it. 237 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 2: My uncle was at BBDA. No, sure, garriy Apollo. 238 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: Will you do that? I know that name somehow, I 239 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: don't know. 240 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 3: I bet you did. He was a big he was 241 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 3: a big wig. 242 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. 243 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: He did visas everywhere you want to be. 244 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: He was. He was a creative director, right, yes, I think, yeah, okay, 245 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: I remember the name. 246 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, he had big account. You had PEPSI, he had big, 247 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:44,359 Speaker 2: big account. 248 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: So that's BBDO. Yes, yeah, three dose. 249 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: You might have met him, which is so funny. He's 250 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: about twenty years older than you. But thank you for 251 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: saying it just seems like the eighties Manhattan, Yeah, Midtown 252 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 2: advertising was just like, oh it was. 253 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: You know, it was a different version of mad Men. 254 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: You know, we all know mad Men, sixties Martinis and 255 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: you know, the whole kind of thing. It, you know 256 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: what didn't have that romanticism and had a kind of 257 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: a grittier cocaine flat Wall Street very much. It was 258 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: a creative, sexier Wall Street, but it had all but 259 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: it was rough, rowdy, and it was crazy and it 260 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 1: was fun. We lived, you know, it was very interesting. 261 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: The work environments were very very different. Everybody was dating 262 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: each other. It was a very different It was a 263 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: very different world and it was it was exactly you know, 264 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: it was interesting. Jay Leno opened up when he left 265 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: his show. One of the things he did at the end, 266 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: he showed in the curtain and he showed all the 267 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: families that met at his workplace, and he was most 268 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: proud of that. You would never do that today. You know. 269 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: It was very, very different, and you know, obviously we've 270 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: come to a better place. But so much of work 271 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: was the social aspect of it, particularly in a creative 272 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: if you were in the TV business, if you were 273 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: in the advertising business, if you were you know, in 274 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: the journalism business. I mean, you know what newsrooms were 275 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: like years ago, and obviously they were like what they 276 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: were like, you know, and it's hopefully that is what 277 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: they were like, you know what I mean. It has 278 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: changed a lot, and it's changed for the better. 279 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 2: I don't know if most people know this about you, 280 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 2: but your first TV appearance was on the game show 281 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 2: Match Game. 282 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: Wow, you did your homework here. Okay, we're gonna find 283 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: out about Donnie Deutsch. First, tell us where you're from. 284 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 3: My name is Donny Deutsch. I'm out here visiting from Queens, 285 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 3: New York. 286 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: I just recently graduated the University of Pennsylvania, and since 287 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: that time, I've been working for a large advertising agency 288 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: in New York. Oh my god, Oh my god, Oh 289 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: my god, Big Afro, Huge jew. 290 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: Care is stunning. Here is stunning, Johnny. 291 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: Judefro like this with a beard. Yes, that was my 292 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: initial TV appearance nineteen seventy nine, the Match Game with 293 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: Gene Rayburn. I matched the Super Match five thousand dollars 294 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: with Betty White. Let's see if you would I don't 295 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 1: know if you saw the clip, but see if you 296 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: would get the answer the way you would do it. 297 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: They would give you a word and you don't have 298 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: to fill in the other words. 299 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 3: So, okay, situation blank? Do they give you letters? A 300 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 3: number of letters? 301 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, you just you have to that'ch 302 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: what the person's gonna say? You know, they write it 303 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: down and then you guess what they said. 304 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 3: Situation ship. That's such a modern situation, situation comedy, situation comedy. 305 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have even thought of that because we just 306 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: say sitcom sick. 307 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that to me was the only thing that came 308 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: to my head. Yeah, it was the only thing that 309 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: came to my heead. But we got so. I won 310 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars in nineteen seventy nine. That was not 311 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: that it's not a lot of money to take, but 312 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: it was a real lot of money back then, and 313 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: it allowed me to stay in California for a period 314 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: of time just hang out and it was. It was bizarre, 315 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: and it still lives on the internet today. So if 316 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: you if you type in dining doos match game, you'll 317 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: see a guy with really big afro and a beard 318 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: who looks really weird. 319 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 3: I'll attest it's stunning. 320 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you. 321 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 3: Did you ever envision a career on camera? 322 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: No? What happened? Was I used to when I was 323 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: running my agi see, I tended to. I was kind 324 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: of you know, every industry has a couple of faces 325 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: that you know, there's always the divorce lawyer that ends 326 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: up on TV or this. I was kind of the 327 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: ad guy that you know, if you were the Today 328 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: Show or you were CNBC, you want to you know, 329 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: I kind of a guy before me was Jerry del 330 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: Fanminaho was that guy. I tended to be that guy. 331 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: And every time I would do an interview, two things 332 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: would happen. I would love it, I'll get a rush, 333 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: and the producer or the interview would say, you're really 334 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: good at this. You should do this one day, you know. 335 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: So I sold my agency and I was looking for 336 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: something to do, and I met with an agent and 337 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: hooked me up with the NBC and we kind of 338 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: went from there. But it was like something just that 339 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: I always loved doing. I love performing. I was never 340 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: in theater or anything like that, but I think back now, 341 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: my favorite class in school was speech, you know, so, 342 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: and part of what I did in advertising was perform 343 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: and present, you know. I mean, it's a fair you know. 344 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: We used to see the Don Draper standing up in 345 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: front of the clients and its theater. You're doing theater. 346 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: Obviously there's a lot underneath it, and there's a lot 347 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: that goes into it. And that's just the kind of 348 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: the cherry on the top. But I was always good 349 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: at the theater and the presentation that the pitch, so 350 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: to speak, And that's what you're doing on TV. You know, 351 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: if I'm with a client and I'm pitching, I'm with 352 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: you know, I ke it and I'm you know, pitching 353 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: them the best way to do their furniture advertising. I 354 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: have to sell my vision. I have to sell it 355 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: to them. I have to understand my audience put it 356 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: to them in a way that they can accept it. 357 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: That that get my point across. Well, what are you 358 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: doing on the air? What are you doing? You're making 359 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: a point and the best way how do I present it? 360 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: How do I do it in the most cohesive, you know, succinct, 361 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: compelling human way. How do I do it that my 362 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: audience is gonna be able to take it in the 363 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: way I want them to take it in. So the 364 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: kind of the I don't call them the art forms, 365 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: but the muscles are kind of the same. Yeah. 366 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: I think that's really interesting because you say, you know, 367 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: you loved being on TV. You got a rush from it, 368 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 2: and I always I'm fascinated by that because I get 369 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 2: nothing from TV physiologically. 370 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 3: I don't get nervous. It doesn't. It doesn't make me excited. 371 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: I don't get nervous, but I get pupped. I walk 372 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: into morning jokes every day. 373 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 3: Take still, I love it. 374 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: I get a rush from it. It's not that I'm 375 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: being on now, not that I'm thinking to myself, Oh, 376 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: you're on TV and people watch. It's just, yeah, I'm 377 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: in a conversation that matters, you know. That's that somehow 378 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: is going to connect, you know. I what I love. 379 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: You know, I used to have a show on CBC. 380 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure the big idea. I love when somebody stops 381 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: me on the street and say, you know, I used 382 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: to watch a show and I started my business because 383 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: of it. Or somebody stops me on the street and says, 384 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: you know, you really convinced me about this. You said 385 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: about women voting, and I think that's really important. Whatever 386 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: it is that at the end of the day, what 387 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: are we here for? What do we want to leave 388 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: our children? We want to make a difference. I don't 389 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: even mean change the warb So if you can inform 390 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: I don't mean literally inform, but you know, affect somebody 391 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: one movie and somehow add something to their life, to 392 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: something you said or thought, What a wonderful gift. And 393 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: that's what I get excited about, you know. 394 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 3: It is that part is gratifying. 395 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 2: It comes with so many awful other things, but yeah, 396 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: that part is for sure gratifying. You said recently when 397 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 2: you had me on your pod, which. 398 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: Was great, which the great numbers, by the way, who knew? Right? 399 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 2: Okay, you said to me, you said, you wear your 400 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 2: insides on your outside, and no one's ever said that 401 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 2: in that way. I love the way you said that, 402 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: And I wouldn't know how to do it differently because 403 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: I don't think about how I'm doing it. 404 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: That's what that's That's what authenticity is. That's what I mean. 405 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: That's kind of an it's kind of like a grimier 406 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: way to say authenticity. You know, it's just what you 407 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: see is what you get. People can smell it, they 408 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: know it. That's what it was. Interesting. Before I had 409 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: my show on CBC, I got friendly with Michael J. Fox. 410 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: I'm on his board what a privilege to be a 411 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: dear friend is? And I asked them for advice. What 412 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: do I do? He goes, be yourself. They'll know the 413 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: difference if you're not, you know, what I mean. So 414 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: like that, they're either gonna buy it, they're not gonna 415 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: buy it, but they'll know if you're not. So just 416 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: you know, be who you are. And that's why when 417 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: everybody says to me, you know, I'm gonna take media 418 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: trading or this and that, I'm saying, just be who 419 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: you are, don't don't worry about cadences, don't worry about this. 420 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: Just just let it. And I think that works for 421 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: an actor. I think that works for that, work works 422 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: search for a politician. We talked about that. So the 423 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: one kudo I'm going to give Trump is he's authentic, 424 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: authentically repulsive, but. 425 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 3: He means it. 426 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: So it's yeah, you know, you can't argue with that. 427 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, take the line out, but you know, 428 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: he is what he is and really is. And a 429 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: lot of people that scores with a lot of people. Yeah, 430 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people will say when you watch people 431 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: being interviewed WI runner A Trump, well, I know, first 432 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: of all, they say, he talks like me. You know, 433 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: he sounds like me because he's not talking perfectly. He's 434 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: talking about you know, and you know, and I believe him. 435 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: He believes what, you know, I don't agree with him, 436 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: but I believe him, you know, And yeah, that scores 437 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: a lot of points. 438 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 2: I had this conversation with a producer, my producer the 439 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 2: other day. I had written in a script, maybe like 440 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 2: a for syllable word, and he was like, you got 441 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 2: to take that out. It's too big. No one knows 442 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 2: what you're talking about. I'm like, I this is me, Yeah. 443 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 3: Like this is me. 444 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: I'm a writer, Like this is how I talk. And 445 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: he's like, I don't care. You can't be you if 446 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 2: you're gonna be like that for this show. Yes, yes, 447 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: So offline we talked about this. I loved the show, Donnie. 448 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 2: It was so fun to watch the. 449 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: Short lived comedy on USA now. 450 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: But tell me how it happened, because I just like 451 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 2: developing other things too. 452 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 3: How did this happen? 453 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: So it basically what it was that people don't know 454 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: I did. This is in twenty fifteen, I think, so 455 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, about eight years ago, nine years ago, whatever 456 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: it is. It was a kind of a soft scripted 457 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: cover like a Larry David kerbutres not to compare myself 458 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: to him or that, but it was a Jaq Janjer. 459 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: It was a comedy where I played myself a more 460 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: ridiculous version of myself in the show. I had a 461 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: sleazy daytime talk show and it wasn't really scripted, and 462 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: we would do it loosely like they do Curb. We 463 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: would just know here's the scene and go and in. 464 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: And I had two kids, and we shot it actually 465 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: in my real home here. I live in townhouse in 466 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: New York. And it was I'm so proud of it. 467 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: It was funny you. It was on the wrong place. 468 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: It went on you it needed to be. It was 469 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: before streaming really hit like you if you would put 470 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: Curb on ten thirty on a Tuesday night in the 471 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: USA network, people consume shows like that, not appointment TV, 472 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: you know. So it didn't do well in the ratings 473 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: that I thought it was. It was hysterical. I made 474 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: fun of myself. I was a very I kind of 475 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: whatever you would think of me as stereotypical. I played 476 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: to the nth degree and I just had the idea 477 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: and I just kind of wanted to use another It's interesting. 478 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: I was talking to a very well known news person 479 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: the other day who was asking me about it and 480 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: thinking about doing the same not that same thing, but 481 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: a more entertainment scripted thing I said, using a different 482 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: muscle is so exciting, and I loved it. It's the 483 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: thing I don't say I'm most proud of, but it's 484 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: the thing I most surprised myself that I was able 485 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: to do, you know, writing it, I created ith acting 486 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: in it, you know, just building it from ground zero. 487 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: I loved it only the last one season, but but 488 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: I love it. 489 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 3: And by the way, and I loved it too. 490 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: If anybody just go on I guess iTunes or Apple, 491 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: however you find these things. Just it's called Donnie exclamation point. 492 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 493 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: Six episodes. Will you will Leaf? I promise you will. 494 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 2: Leave you you will. I loved it, Thank you. I 495 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: I wrote a sitcom set in a newsroom. It's comedy, 496 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: and this was born out of a frustration I had 497 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 2: been asked to consult on two shows about the news. 498 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 3: Aaron Sorkins The Newsroom. 499 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: Which I loved, which was wonderful writing, I mean wonderful, 500 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: and Jeff Daniels, I mean Off the Truck. 501 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 3: Oh so good. And I love Aaron, and so that 502 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 3: was great. 503 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 2: I'd be on set at MSNBC, where I used to 504 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 2: have a show, and I'd get a call from Aaron. Okay, 505 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 2: I just saw you arguing with your co host. What 506 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 2: did you guys talk about in the break I was 507 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 2: talked about getting. 508 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 3: Sushi, But so I did that one. 509 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 2: And then I got asked to consult on the morning 510 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: show for Apple. And when I heard the morning show 511 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 2: was going to have Reese and Jennifer Aniston and Steve Carrell, 512 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 2: I thought, oh, good, a comedy because the newsroom was 513 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 2: very much a drama and took the news very serious, 514 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 2: very seriously, very and I thought, you know, I really 515 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 2: just want to be funny. 516 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 3: And then I got in the writer's room and we started. 517 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 2: Talking and I realized, this is not going to be 518 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: a comedy. 519 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 3: It's going to be a drama. 520 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,239 Speaker 1: How does it work. I've never consulted on this. So 521 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: they bring you into take me through that. What does 522 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: that look like? 523 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: Well for the morning show, they brought me into a 524 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 2: literal writer's room, and this is so typical and funny. 525 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 2: They needed to know what a conservative sounded like because 526 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 2: I don't think they'd ever met one. 527 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is like so typical Hollywood. 528 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 2: So I came in to say, well, here's what I 529 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 2: would say in this situation or here's what a conservative 530 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 2: girl like that's character might do in this situation. So 531 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 2: that was particular, like that was I was brought in 532 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: to inform that particular part of it, and I just 533 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: remember afterwards being like, well, I can't wait for someone 534 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 2: to call me to consult on a comedy about a newsroom. 535 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 3: And I thought, why am I weaighting? Like, maybe I'll 536 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 3: just write one. 537 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: Sure, So I did. 538 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 2: I wrote a pilot. It seems like no one wants 539 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 2: to watch a news room. 540 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: Sitcomcoms are tough to sell because streaming doesn't do half 541 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: hour comedies. They don't work exactly. I mean, Curve worked. 542 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: I think ted Lasso is a half hour, but they're 543 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: few and far between. They can't make money on them, 544 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: they cancel them internationally. So you're basically stuck with the 545 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: broadcast networks that are dying. And that's that's a problem, 546 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: you know exactly. Saying when was the last when was 547 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: the lass good really good sitcom? 548 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 3: Well, I feel it was veepntes. 549 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: Beep was actually I don't remember, but that was on 550 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: streaming obviously, But it's very hard to do a I 551 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: minded it is, you know, high minded sitcom today. 552 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, just all right. Well, then I don't feel so bad, 553 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 2: don't feel sure. 554 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: It's great. 555 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 3: It is great. I heard like. 556 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: I sent it to Aaron, he was like, this is great. 557 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 2: HBO liked it, but they had just done veep and 558 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 2: it's kind of deep in a newsroom, right, and so 559 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 2: they wanted to give it some time. But I don't know, 560 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 2: Maybe I'll shop it around again. I want to go 561 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: back to twenty ten. You're host at MSNBC and you 562 00:23:59,000 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 2: got in a little trouble. 563 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 3: Oh god, you remember this, yes, yes, it was so insane. 564 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: Phil Griffin, the head of the MS, who I love 565 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: and who was great it was. He such an amazing 566 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,479 Speaker 1: TV executive. He said to me, we'll try out it's 567 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: kind of weird. We'll try out three in the afternoon, 568 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 1: right for a week, you know, we'll see if that goes, 569 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: then maybe we'll give you a show. And the first 570 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: wasn't I think it was? The first was the second 571 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: day I did? I think now it was so naive, 572 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: it was so dumb on my part. We did an 573 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: whole segment on anger and TV and news and the producer. 574 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: I don't want to blame the producer, but I had 575 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: nothing to do with this. In the upfront piece and 576 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: the setup piece showed you know, all the angry conservatives, 577 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: and then. 578 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 3: Showed Keith Olberman you know network, Yeah, my network, you can't. 579 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: You can't do that. No. Now, Keith, who was a 580 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: major asshole, instead of kind of taking him in stride, 581 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: went didn't show up for work next day and said 582 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: if he's on the air, I'm not on the air. 583 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: I mean maybe what a douche, you know. And so, 584 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: by the way, it was a mistake. It was a 585 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: mistake by the producer because I didn't even know. I 586 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: certainly never talked about it, and I was doing going 587 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: after the concern servatives. I didn't know what was going 588 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: to be in the in the in the in the 589 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: piece up up top. So I understand why he was upset. 590 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: You can't like make me part of your piece that's 591 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: hitting people. But like just he just went went on 592 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: a like insane rate. 593 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 2: And then the network said, you were taking time off 594 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 2: to deal with the personal issue. 595 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 3: That's how fucked up our business is. 596 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you know, I don't remember what personal action 597 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: I had the personal issue, and you know it was Yeah, 598 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: it was just one of those great TV moments that 599 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: you just go this is some business, you know. But 600 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: I remember even learned that they put the producer on leave. 601 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 1: Thank god they didn't fire the producer, yeah, or the 602 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: or It wasn't the main wasn't the showrunner. I mean, 603 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't the EP. It was just somebody who was 604 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: putting a piece together, you know, and it was not 605 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: to put Heath in that group was not a smart 606 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:43,959 Speaker 1: thing to do. 607 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 3: Well, he's such a douche. 608 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 2: He once said that my parents should have availed themselves 609 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,959 Speaker 2: of Planned Parenthood's services. 610 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: Are you serious? Just not a good guy? You know, 611 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: eventually the really bad guys get found out. 612 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 3: You know, a business, he keeps getting hired. 613 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: Where you don't really he I mean, he was a 614 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: he was a major presence. He had, He had a 615 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: big platform, and he was kind of what Rachel is 616 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: today at MS. He was then he was kind of 617 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: the main anchor or not actually John want to say 618 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: what Joe was. I have to stick to my home team, 619 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, but you know that's that what he had 620 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: a big platform. He doesn't have that anymore. 621 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 3: That's true. 622 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 2: That that moment aside, like do you stop yourself from 623 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: getting personal or nasty or like ad hominem when you're 624 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 2: on the air. 625 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I I've always believed that. I'd like to think 626 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: of myself as strong and straightforward, the direct, But I 627 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: don't think you win. I go after a bully. I'll 628 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: go after Trump very very hard, But I don't think 629 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: you ever win by goating people or tarry people down, 630 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,479 Speaker 1: or I'd like to think that who I am shows 631 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: on the air. Uh you know that that How would 632 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: I describe just just me and just trying to do 633 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: the I'm trying to do the right thing at this 634 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: stage in my life. You know, I'm not a kid anymore. 635 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: I'm sixty seven. I'm going to be sixty seven, and 636 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: you kind of want to be on the right side 637 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: of things. 638 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 639 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: In my this is my father fatherly instincts coming out. 640 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: I really worry about us, not in the abstract sense. 641 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: I worry about we will no longer be everything that 642 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: we take for granted or truly free society. I feel 643 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: like that people will continue to be pitted against each other. 644 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: I just my good side comes out. Yeah, that's that's 645 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: not always my Always issue with people voting for Trump 646 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: and I'm not It's like, how do you vote for bad? 647 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: How do you vote for me? And how do you 648 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: vote for evil? How do you vote for pugnacious? How 649 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: do you vote for you know? Deviceive it like it's 650 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: just the very thing like truth. What is the first 651 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: thing we teach our kids? What is the one thing 652 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: you can will always get past it, but you have 653 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: to tell me the truth? Yes, the simplest common denomination 654 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: we put for our children. I would like to keep 655 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: the leader of our country accountable for. 656 00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 2: You know, but what you do, it's really specific effect, 657 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: and I'm sure it's authentic, But you don't do this 658 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 2: condescending like where you're looking down on Trump voters. 659 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: No, No, first of all, I don't don't do that. 660 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: I don't First of all, the people I get angry at, 661 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: not that look down, but get angry at. By the way, 662 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: if you're a maga guy, if you think he's gonna 663 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna put more food on your table, or whatever 664 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: reason you're it's the people that only care about another 665 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: three percent of their taxes, that have a lot of money, 666 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: that know right from wrong, and no matter they don't do. Yeah, 667 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 1: that's the people I don't know that I look down 668 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: and I get angry at them and I know a 669 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: lot some of them are my friends. 670 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, where like, maybe it's not. 671 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: Perfect for you, maybe it might cost you an extra 672 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: dollar here or there, But don't you care about right 673 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: and worship and the very things that people that our 674 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: grandfather's bought for in World War Two? Like we're not 675 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: gonna do heavy. Don't you have that perspective that goes 676 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: beyond narrowly what's better for you. You're in the point 677 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: in life where you can make decisions not just what 678 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: it's a better faight and isn't that what it's Those 679 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: are the people I get frustrated with. 680 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 2: Well, I get angry at the people on my side, 681 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 2: the conservatives who I know no better of course, that 682 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 2: he's not conservative, that he doesn't care about the values 683 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 2: that we used to care about that I still do 684 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 2: and know better and sell out and. 685 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 3: Just go where the power is. Those are the people 686 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 3: that bother me. 687 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: I as a man, not to sound sexist, I wonder 688 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: how they look at their wives and their children and 689 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: they're doing it. I think the same thing, and like 690 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: their friend, like, are you that much of a fucking 691 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: weenie as a human being? You know? I had a 692 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: am kinsing gram I show a couple of weeks ago, 693 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: and I said, the guys used to come up to 694 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: you off the record and go, we wish he goes. 695 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: You would not believe the names. I could name thirty 696 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: well known people that what I was doing when I 697 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: was doing, I wish I could do what you were doing. 698 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: I know you're right, how do you look at yourself? Yes? 699 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: How do you you know? Like it's just and I 700 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: know it's their jobs. But if you said to me, 701 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: you know you could have the best prime time show 702 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: in the world. All you have to do is back Trump. 703 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 3: I would have no way, not like, how do you 704 00:29:58,720 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 3: look at yourself? 705 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: You're missing your self leveling. You know. 706 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 3: I've had to make those decisions. 707 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 2: I've had to sort of navigate right wing media and 708 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 2: that world through Trump. I've had to make those decisions. 709 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: They were not hard decisions for me. They were super 710 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 2: easy because I have to sleep at night. 711 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: What I love about what I love about you and 712 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: why I feel we have a great connection is and 713 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: you start out right of center, I start out left 714 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: of center. Yeah, but we comfort what we think is 715 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: right and fair, and we're able to get out of 716 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: our lane. We're not in a lane. We start with 717 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: what's right, at least what we think is right and wrong. 718 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: They were able to drift into certain places and there 719 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: aren't tons of people in the media could do that. 720 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: You know. I like that a lot about the show 721 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: that I do Joe and make. I really feel Joe 722 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: really is driven by his I'm not just saying this. 723 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: Christmas is Shoe, that's what. You know. He comes out 724 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: what he thinks is right. And yes he's started as 725 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: a conservative, but if you really listen to him, he's 726 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: going by what he thinks is right as a father, 727 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, And I see that with you, and 728 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: I've always respected that about you. 729 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 4: Thank you. 730 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 2: You and I have talked a little bit about mental health, yes, 731 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 2: and I've talked about my challenges. You've talked a little 732 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 2: about your challenges. Can you talk a little bit about 733 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: what you had to confront what you had to deal with? 734 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: Sure? You know, Look, I've had some depression issues and 735 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: I've dealt with that, and you know, you find out 736 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: people like the Rock and other people. I mean, it's 737 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: just it's part of who we are. It's part of 738 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: our chemistry. I find sometimes the more unique you are, 739 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: the more challenges you can have. And so many people 740 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: have issues with anxiety and depression, and you know, you've 741 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: written about it, you've talked about it, and you know 742 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: it's one thing is nothing to be embarrassed about. Is 743 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: any issue, It's no different if you have issues with 744 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: something like with anxiety or depression, it's no different than 745 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: having high blood pressure or high cholesterol. It's something chemical 746 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: in your system that we now have medication that solves. 747 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: And so my only suggestion to anybody out there who's 748 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: having any kind of struggles, whether it's anxiety or depression 749 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: or anything in there, just we've got a lot of 750 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: help to get today that there's no reason to suffer 751 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: in the way that people had to suffer decades ago. 752 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 2: How did you get to a place as a man 753 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 2: of a generation, How did you get to a place 754 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 2: where you were just comfortable getting help and then talking 755 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:28,719 Speaker 2: about it? 756 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't I don't really talk about it 757 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: a lot. Somebody asked me about it, I'll talk about it. 758 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, an advocate for it. I think 759 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: you get secure as a person and you realize it. 760 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: It doesn't make you less strong, It actually makes you 761 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: stronger to talk about it because maybe you help somebody else, 762 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: and seeing other people of tremendous stature who would talk 763 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: about it, you know, you know, people like Churchill, and 764 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: you know it goes on and on and on. Abe 765 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: Lincoln suffered from the great So I don't it's not 766 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: a scorecard for how strong you are, how good you are, 767 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: as I said, it's like no different than if you 768 00:32:58,960 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: had diabetes. 769 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, what really bothers me because I do talk about 770 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 2: it a lot for all the reasons. What really bothers 771 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 2: me are people who go on TV or on their show, 772 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 2: on their podcast and criticize someone who's talking openly about 773 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 2: their mental health. And this happened a lot with like 774 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 2: Naomi Osaka and Simone Biles and Megan Markle. 775 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: I know that was that was just like, it's incomprehensible, 776 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: you know. 777 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 2: It's incomprehensible how you use a platform. I'm talking about 778 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 2: Megan Kelly. I don't know why I don't have to 779 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 2: like use other hide her name. She really went after 780 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 2: these people. And so you're lazy and entitled and rat 781 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 2: and grow up. 782 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: And that's hate and ignorance. It's all wrapped into one's hate. 783 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 3: What is the purpose of that purpose? 784 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: Is the purpose is for somebody like that is a 785 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: few things? Is a what can I do? That's contrarian. 786 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: It's gonna get clicks and bites and you know, oh, 787 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: everybody's celebrating her. I'm gonna detegrate her ignorance and just 788 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: mean spiritedness, just not decent human being. It's like, you 789 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: can't hear this person who publicly obviously went through traumatic 790 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 1: situations both of these people and had to step aside 791 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: and did so and bravely talked about it. That surely 792 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,240 Speaker 1: helped other young women. 793 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 2: Definitely, yes, And I don't this isn't your beat either, 794 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 2: Like you don't have to weigh in on this. Your 795 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 2: beat is not mental health or sports or whatever. 796 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 3: You don't have to say. 797 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 2: Anything about what Naomi Osaka is going through. You choose 798 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 2: to which I just don't understand. There is zero good 799 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 2: coming out of denigrating someone for being honest about their struggles. 800 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: No. I wonder if somebody, you know, take somebody like 801 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson, and I wonder I'll put them in the 802 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: same yep category. Do they know? Is it performance art? 803 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: Are they playing to for him? 804 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 3: It is? 805 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: I know him, I've never met him, and I go nobody. 806 00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: He's a father, he's got four kids. 807 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,760 Speaker 3: I think he's got very smart. 808 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: You can't believe this stuff. And then you go with 809 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: make it worse or better? Yeah, you know, yeah, I 810 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: mean I think it's worse. It's transactional, you know. And 811 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: it's just like, how do you the ship that comes 812 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: out of the amount? How do you sit there with 813 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: a guy who's saying the real devil in World War 814 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: Two was not Hitler was Churchill? And you're sitting there going, 815 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 1: how do you give that personal platform? Not child like? 816 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: And then go home and face your children. You know, 817 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: there are certain things that there are not two sides 818 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: to certain things. You know that, and the news sometimes 819 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: makes that mistake. Sometimes there is not there's no equivalency 820 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: there is, there's no two sides to that argument, you know. 821 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I you know, I always wondered 822 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: that about a lot of these guys. You know, I've 823 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: met Hannity. Seems like a really good guy. 824 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 3: You know, I don't know him personally, he's a nice guy. 825 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: You know, you get the feeling he's in on the 826 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: joke a little bit. You know. 827 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 3: Listen, Tucker's smart. I worked for Tucker. Tucker is a 828 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 3: student of history. 829 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,919 Speaker 1: Oh, no, of these guys are dumb. I mean, let's 830 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: not make any mistake about it, right, you know. 831 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's I think it's a little worse. Yeah, Okay, 832 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 2: I want to do a lightning round. Okay, okay. Elon 833 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,399 Speaker 2: Musk calls you and asks you to help him save 834 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 2: Twitter and his reputation. 835 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 3: What is your crisis? Camm's advice. 836 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: I wouldn't help him because I think he's a bad guy. 837 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: I would never take a cigarette advertising when I was 838 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,280 Speaker 1: doing advertising, so I could never use my skills to 839 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,439 Speaker 1: help somebody or a cause that I thought was bad 840 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: or destructive. I think he's like a Bond villain. I 841 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 1: think he's a really dangerous guy. 842 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 3: Yes, so you would say no. 843 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 1: No, I'd say I can't unless it was I met him, 844 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: and I genuinely think he had this cathartic moment he 845 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: wanted to do good. And it wasn't just completely it was, 846 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: you know, like, I've really made a mistake. I've learned 847 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: and I realized as a result of some of the 848 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: things I put on Twitter. This happened, it's not good. 849 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: And if it was something that but if it was 850 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: just like I'm in trouble. I need to polish my 851 00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: image and go find someone else. 852 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 2: Amazing madmen or scandal madmen, not even clothes. Favorite adult beverage. 853 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: Favorite adult beverage tequila, to drink tequila with Blanco tequila 854 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 1: with a splash of soda, wedge of orange. 855 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 3: Wait to say that again? 856 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: Uh Blanco tequila? 857 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 3: Blanco? 858 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 2: Okay, I think some Vanka tequila and I was like 859 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 2: those those don't go now. 860 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 1: With a splash of soda wedge of orange. Always pretty 861 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: much you'll find that me having a couple of those 862 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: most nights. 863 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 3: I love that. What's your favorite band? 864 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: Probably Springsteen? 865 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 3: Uh? 866 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: I put spring I put the Stones and put Springsteen. 867 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: Bon Jovi's a friend of mine, so I always put 868 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: them up there. 869 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 3: He did a thing he did, Oh my god, that 870 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 3: was incredible. 871 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: But I mean, for those of you that don't know, 872 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: there was somebody that caught Saval's finish. He was taking 873 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: a video on a bridge I think in Nashville. There 874 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: was a woman who sadly was gonna jump. She was 875 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: on there was a ledger of bridge, and he was 876 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: happy to be there, and he walked over. He talked 877 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: her off, and he got Her. I mean like he 878 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: was a real life here. He's a really good guy, Joe, 879 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: He's a really good guy. 880 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 2: That's nice to hear. What's your favorite movie? 881 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: Graduate, I'll give him my top. I have a group. 882 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:08,800 Speaker 3: I have a Graduate. 883 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: Yes, I have Godfather One, Godfather Too, Goodfellas, Scarface, Field 884 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: of Dreams, Swept Away, the Original, Swept Away? What else 885 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: would I put in there? Love? Actually? What else was popp? 886 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 1: Midnight Cowboy? I love a lot of the late seventies. Yeah, 887 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: it sounds pretty the gritty movies Godfather, Midnight Cowboy, Graduate. 888 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 3: Well like French Connection, French Connection. 889 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: I think that period of time, you know, Easy Rider, 890 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: that late seventies, I mean Godfather's early seventies, mid seventies. 891 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: I think it was the top of filmmak. 892 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 2: I just saw one for the first time. Robert Redford 893 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 2: plays a journalist. Not all the presidents man, No, no, no, 894 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 2: not comment door. 895 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it sounds like that. 896 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 2: Uh, there's something days of the. 897 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 3: Condor, Days are the condor? 898 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: Not common with it? 899 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 3: Condor or something like yes, yes, yes, yes, it was great. 900 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 2: I should remember the name. Yeah right, I like that 901 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 2: era too, That's a really good era for film. Yeah, Okay, 902 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 2: this is the last question. It's really important to me 903 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 2: and my culture. Okay, when is iceed coffee season? 904 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: Oh, I can't believe. I actually don't have one next 905 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: to me. I drink four ice coffee a day, every 906 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: day of the year. 907 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, every day of the year is the correct answer. 908 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: Every day of the year. I drink like everybody knows. 909 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: You know. I start out pumping two two before I 910 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,399 Speaker 1: start anything. I'm surprised. I don't what time is it now. 911 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: I usually stopped by the afternoon, you know, but all 912 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: morning long, I'm juicing on ice coffee. You know. 913 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,760 Speaker 2: I don't understand people who are like, that's only for summer. 914 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 2: What would you only eat ice cream in the summer. 915 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 2: Now you have it when you want it. 916 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 1: Because you walked right into my wheelhouse, so that we 917 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: are we're separated at birth that way totally. 918 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 3: Well, Donnie, thanks so much. This was really fine, This 919 00:39:58,800 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 3: was fun. 920 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: Really enjoyed it. You say, keep doing what you're doing. 921 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: You're doing good, good stuff. 922 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 3: Thanks. That means a lot. I appreciate it. 923 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: Thanks. 924 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 3: Off the Cup is. 925 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 2: A production of iHeart Podcasts as part of the Reason 926 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 2: Choice Network. If you want more, check out the other 927 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 2: Reason Choice Podcasts, Spolitics with Jamel Hill, and Native Land Pod. 928 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 3: For Off the Cup, I am your host se Cup. 929 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 3: Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. 930 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Me Si Cup, Lauren Hanson, and 931 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 2: Lindsay Hoffman. 932 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 3: Rate and review wherever you get 933 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 2: Your podcasts, follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,