1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Keith. I'm a producer. As we were getting 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: ready to wrap the series, the nature of this project 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: changed suddenly. I won't tell you what happens now because 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: it happens much later on in the series, and I 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: want to be truthful to that. But I hope you'll 6 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: listen to the end. Okay, let's take the first stup. 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: You know those John and Jane does that you hear 8 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: about in the news or in some mystery detective thriller 9 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: Bodies without names. Those are the people I'm interested in 10 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: figuring out who they are and bringing them home to 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: their families, even if it's sometimes years or decades later. 12 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: I've been on this flip side of crime fighting for 13 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 2: a long time now. I want to bring peace to 14 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: the families who bloss someone. Almost since the beginning, one 15 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 2: case has been on my mind. It's a long story. 16 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: It's about a family with the misfortune of not having 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: one missing person in it, but two. Two boys have vanished. 18 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: Their body's never found. Decades ago, this family's path was 19 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: blown off course by one man, a serial killer. He 20 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: set into motion a series of events that would leave 21 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 2: relatives in the dark. They didn't know who their people were, 22 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: whether they have been abandoned altogether, or whether they've been 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 2: spared some terrible fate. That's when I came into the picture. 24 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: I was a stranger, but very soon I wouldn't be. 25 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: And somehow, with my. 26 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 3: Help, these folks had basically. 27 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 2: Given up on getting answers. 28 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 3: Would find them. Let me start by. 29 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: Telling you how I got to where I am today. 30 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 2: People often wonder how I got into this line of work, 31 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: and I tell them it all started with a ghost story. 32 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: Well it is a ghost story, but it's also a 33 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: love story. It was October of nineteen eighty seven. I 34 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 2: was in my senior year of high school. It was 35 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: Halloween and everyone was telling spooky stories. I was in Livingston, Tennessee. 36 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: Actually still live It's a beautiful town right on the 37 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: foothills of the Smoky Mountains. Actually I should probably introduce myself. 38 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: My name is Todd Matthews. I'm fifty three years old. 39 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 2: I'm a husband, a father, and a grandfather. I have 40 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 2: a lot of years of investigating under my belt, and 41 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: I've also worked at the Department of Justice for more 42 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: than a decade. But back in nineteen eighty seven, I 43 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: wouldn't any of that. I was just sitting around fifth 44 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: period study hall when this pretty Barnette Laurie walked in. 45 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: She is a transfer student who just moved to town. 46 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 4: He saw me first, and then we got to study 47 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 4: hall and he come up to me and he said, 48 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 4: can I sit down? 49 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 5: And I'm like sure? 50 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 4: And he sat down literally in the same seat that 51 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 4: I was in, even though there was open seats next 52 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 4: to me. 53 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 5: He said, in my seat. 54 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: She had those pretty dark brown eyes, pretty dark brown 55 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: hair that basically mirrored mine, almost like we were made 56 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: to match each other. 57 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 4: Neighbor telling ghost stories and they were like, does anybody 58 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 4: else have a ghost story? 59 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 5: I'm like, well, yeah, I have one. 60 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: She heard it from her dad, Wilbur Riddle, two decades ago, 61 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: the year Martin Luther King Jr. 62 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 3: And Robert F. 63 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: Kennedy Jr. Were assassinated. Wilbur was living near a town 64 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: called Georgetown, Kentucky, just outside of Lexington. Wilbur drilled holes 65 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: for whales, and one day it was walking up the 66 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 2: side of the road when he saw a tent wrapper. 67 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: It was gray green, and it looked like there was 68 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: something in it. He wasn't really sure, and he bumped 69 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: it with his foot and Wilbur could tell by the 70 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: way it was rolled down the hill, shifting around that 71 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: it had had something in it, maybe something bad. And 72 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: he walks down to the bottom of the hill and 73 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: he cuts into the back and the smell that comes 74 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: out is overwhelming, so he calls his sheriff the corner. 75 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 3: They all show up. 76 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: Local officials confirmed what Wilbur already suspected. There was a 77 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: young woman wrapped in that camp, Miss tent Rapper. She'd 78 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: been murdered. Everybody wanted to find her killer, but first 79 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: dad to figure out who this woman was. That proved 80 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: much harder than you think. No one recognized her. She 81 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 2: was a real mystery. By the time I heard this story, 82 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 2: she was a cold case. She'd been dead for twenty 83 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 2: damn years. She's what you'd call it Jane Doe, dead 84 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 2: body without a non identity. But after Wilbur found her, 85 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: the newspaper started calling her tent Girl, named for the 86 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 2: canvas tent rapper she was found in. Imagine your life, 87 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 2: your identity boiled down to the stuff of urban legends, 88 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 2: being reduced to the place that your body was found. 89 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: Something about this story shook something inside of me. 90 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 3: Changed my life. 91 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: First because that girl, Laurie, the newcomer with the dark 92 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: brown eyes. I married her not long after that. There's 93 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: another reason. For the next ten years, I wouldn't stop 94 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: thinking about Tent Girl. And that's not an exaggeration. 95 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 5: I had no clue it was going to lead to this. 96 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 4: I thought he would just forget it in a couple 97 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 4: of months, but no, he never forgot it. 98 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: When we go visit Lori's family, we'd stop in Georgetown, Kentucky. 99 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: I'd stop and see the local newspaper office to see 100 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: if anything you have been written about the tent Girl. 101 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: It wasn't on the web back end because there wouldn't one. 102 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 2: Print copies is all we had. And then the Internet 103 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: came along, and I remember hearing it called the Information 104 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: super Highway. 105 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: I thought, that's the road I need to be on. 106 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: I heard about ten Girl when I was seventeen, so 107 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: you could kind of say I grew up with her. 108 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: Technology advanced my wife and I grew into her marriage. 109 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: We had our first son, Dylan, and night after night, 110 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: I kept trying to put the pieces back together. At 111 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 2: the time, I worked on an assembly line putting together 112 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 2: air conditioning parts. I didn't know a lot about the 113 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: internet been in the early nineties. 114 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 3: Who didn't. 115 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: But I built myself a website for Tent Girl, kind 116 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: of clunky in plane. I put every detail I could 117 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 2: find in there. I guess I just hoped someone was 118 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: missing this woman and then find my web page. It 119 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: was like going on a backward scavenger hunt. I had 120 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: the answer to someone's question what happened to my sister 121 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: daughter friend. I had to find the family member who 122 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 2: recognized Tent Girl as their own. But obsessing over a 123 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: dead woman didn't do me any favors. 124 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 3: At home. 125 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 4: We did have marriage issues because he didn't want to 126 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 4: do anything but work on the Tent Girl. If we 127 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 4: went on a vacation and involved the Tent Girl, it 128 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 4: was something to do with her. I no longer felt married. 129 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 4: I guess I feel like he was more married to 130 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 4: the tent Girl story than me. I kind of regretted 131 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 4: telling him about it, and I've told him. 132 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 3: That, you know, that was kind of hard to hear. 133 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: So I started helping him put my kid to bed, 134 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 2: go to bed with Laurie, then waking up in the 135 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: middle of the night to search the net. 136 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: Back then it was dial up internet. 137 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 2: You know, you had had to find a way to 138 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: get yourself onto the web, and hoped to god somebody 139 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: didn't call you knock you back off of it. 140 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 3: Good thing. 141 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 2: I was working mostly at night, not a lot of 142 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: people calling at three am. And then in nineteen ninety eight, 143 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: a miracle happened. I found a message in the bottle. 144 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: It was online posting from a woman named Rosemary. She 145 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: had a sister who had gone missing around the time 146 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: the tent Curly been found. 147 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 6: I said, I have a missing sister. She is twenty 148 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 6: four years old. She's five foot two, brown hair, brown eyes, 149 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 6: medium petite build. Was last seen in Lexington, Kentucky. 150 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 3: She worked the carnival. 151 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 2: So by then a lot of people expecting me to 152 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: give up hope. You know who else is stubborn up 153 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: to keep searching on the internet long past the time 154 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: It makes a lick of sense. But that's why it 155 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: brought me to Rosemary. 156 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 6: And it was just your luck that he went on 157 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 6: that website and found my post that night. It's just 158 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 6: pure luck. 159 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: After I come across the missing person's posting that Rosemary. 160 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: Wrote, I got in touch with her. 161 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 2: That's when everything really started falling into place. 162 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 6: I didn't know whether to cry or to just drop 163 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 6: down in disbelief. It was more like relief that, oh 164 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 6: my god, this is over. 165 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: We had to do an exhumation at that point and 166 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: get more officials involved, but finally we were able to 167 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: tell the ten girls' family where she had been. 168 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 6: It's the end of wondering all these years, well where 169 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 6: is she? It's all those thoughts running through your head, 170 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 6: and then you think, I know where she is now, 171 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 6: and I can let that rest. I don't have to 172 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 6: worry about that anymore. At long, last ten Girl was 173 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 6: giving back her name. She was Barbara and Hackman Taylor. 174 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 2: So after I saw this case, I really didn't know 175 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: what was next, but I found out real quick. I 176 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: got a ton of national attention that was new for me. 177 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 2: The tarp wrapped body of a nude female now called 178 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: the Tent Girl. 179 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 4: She was known as Tent Girl until the late nineteen nineties, 180 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 4: when her true identity was discovered. 181 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 3: A dark obsession helped this man's dreams helped identifying the 182 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 3: Tent Girl as. 183 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: Todd Matthews is with us all the way from Cook Phil. 184 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 3: This was just a beginning. 185 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: Solving the Tent grow case would lead to figuring out 186 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: who a lot of John and Jane Does were Soon 187 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: I'd find a lot of other part times loves. We 188 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: could start solving cases together, cruising down the information super 189 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 2: Highway we now call the Internet. My work would end 190 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 2: up laying the foundation for a sea of change in 191 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: how this country identifies John and Jane Does. Many of 192 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: these cases were solved with the tools that I held 193 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 2: build that some remain cold cases. This one case got 194 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 2: stuck in my head, almost like it chose me. 195 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 3: A serial killer cross paths. 196 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: With two little boys from the same family, one missing 197 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy four. 198 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: It was just a baby. 199 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: The other boy was an elementary school kid with an 200 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 2: Aladdin backpack. He disappeared twenty years later in nineteen ninety four. 201 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 2: Both boys were never found. I heard about him in 202 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 2: the early two thousands. I wrote to the serial carelling myself, 203 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 2: asking what happened to the boys, But I didn't get 204 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 2: anything useful out of him, that is until twenty nineteen. 205 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: I got a break in the case that wrought my world. 206 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 3: It's a story that started at. 207 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 2: His work and ended up being one of the most 208 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: personal cases I ever had. The kind of story that 209 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: starts from something and then starts unwinding and unwinding, like 210 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 2: pulling a never ending piece of twine. And that is 211 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: why I have to tell him, because I'm haunted by 212 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: the alternative. My name is Todd Matthews, and this is 213 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: hello John Doe, a sleuth, a family, and a serial kill. 214 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 2: The story of a family torn apart by tragedy and 215 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: my quest to bring them back together. 216 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 3: Chapter one, The Missing Boys. 217 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: In the late nineties, it was incredible to me that 218 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: missing people could fall through the cracks the way they would. 219 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 2: If you were from Miami and took a quick business 220 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: trip to Tulsa and told no one and happened to 221 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 2: die in a car accident in between, your body could 222 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: remain unidentified for years, even if your loving wife is 223 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: looking for you. Actually, you could come missing and die 224 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: in one county over and no one would know because 225 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 2: no one was sharing data, or because the killer might 226 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 2: take the victim's clothes or idea on purpose so they 227 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 2: wouldn't get caught. 228 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: Without a national database to. 229 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 2: Identify John Doe's lying in Moorgs, it was near impossible 230 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: to put a name to a body. 231 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 3: Man. 232 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: If a thing like that did exist, Tinker would have 233 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: been identified a lot sooner. So I decided to just 234 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,599 Speaker 2: make the damn thing. I volunteered myself and build a 235 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: national database and filled it with the profiles of people 236 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 2: who were nameless and deceased and others who had gone missing. 237 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: It wasn't just me, there were lots of us. The 238 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: idea was, as we like to say, give the nameless 239 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: back their names and return the missing to their families. 240 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 2: We called it the Dough Network. Remember this was something 241 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 2: I did on the side. I had to keep the 242 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 2: money coming in, so by day I was working in 243 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 2: a factory here in Tennessee, first on the assembly line 244 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: putting together air conditioner parts, then in quality control. 245 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 3: But I want to idea you. 246 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 2: My attention was fixed on the Dough Network, and once 247 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: we launched the thing, I had no idea how to 248 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 2: spent on its own. Almost instantly, the website attracted people 249 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: all over the world, other amateur sleuths. These were all 250 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 2: people looking to contribute and help families find their loved ones. 251 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 2: I wouldn't really call them volunteers. They were people just 252 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 2: like me. These weren't police officers. They were factory workers, housewives, 253 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 2: people who found little pieces up the puzzle in their 254 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 2: own local newspaper, and they wanted to contribute. 255 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 3: Even the cops were coming to us. 256 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 2: They wanted to look through profiles of unidentified people to 257 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 2: help them solve their own missing person cases. And these 258 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 2: guys were impressed with their little network. It woke their 259 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 2: asses up. The website did and still does, look like 260 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 2: it was put together by a ragtag group of volunteers. 261 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 2: It's honestly pretty clinking. If you pull it up, you 262 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 2: can look. 263 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 3: Through a whole database of missing and dead people. I'll 264 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 3: pull one up right now. 265 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: For a missing person, there's a physical description, day of birth, height, weight, etc. 266 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 2: Then there's circumstances of death and identifiers like if they 267 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 2: were wearing jewelry when they die. The idea is that 268 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: an unidentified body with jewelry would match a person who 269 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 2: went missing wearing the same jewelry. That just might be 270 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: a match. By two thousand and one, the do network 271 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 2: was pretty popular. 272 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 3: People would call their. 273 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: Tip line, which was actually my home phone number, or 274 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 2: just send in information about a missing relative. 275 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 3: We'd try to make. 276 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 2: Matches and then send the info go to local law enforcement. 277 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: We all had our reasons for getting in to the 278 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 2: dough network. For me, I really wanted answers, and I 279 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 2: felt like it was actually investigating. But some people were 280 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 2: less invested in answers and just morbidly fascinating with death. 281 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 3: Let's face it, people have. 282 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: Always been fascinated with death, but this was the early 283 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: two thousands. With the rise of cable TV and procedurals 284 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: like CSI and Law and Order, true crime quickly became 285 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: an obsession. I remember one of my medical examine her 286 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 2: friends once said, before the Dough Network, you couldn't give 287 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: away a dead body. Now they're fighting over them. I 288 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 2: guess Dough Network allowed volunteers to play detective, pretend they 289 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: were on CSI or something. But for me, this is 290 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: not a hobby. It's not a toy. People were looking 291 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 2: for loved ones. By this point in my life, I'd 292 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: lost people too. I could imagine the hell these families 293 00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 2: were going through. Sometime around two thousand and seven, after 294 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 2: I'd been investigating for a few years, I got this 295 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: call while I was at the warehouse. I had to 296 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: step out on the loading dot to answer. It's from 297 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: this guide never talked to it before. His name was 298 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: John Paul Jones, and he said he worked with the 299 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: National Institute of Justice in Washington, d C. Now by 300 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: that time I'd been on national shows to talk about 301 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 2: my investigating, but this. 302 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 3: Was a whole new level. 303 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: John Paul was inviting me to go to the National 304 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: Press Club. They were announcing the formation of the first 305 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: federally funded database for missing and unidentified people. I remember 306 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: being a little scared. This was a federal government, the 307 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: big leagues. My mama didn't actually want me to go. 308 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 2: She thought I was in trouble for something. But I 309 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: went anyway, with no disrespect to my mama. She was 310 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 2: dead wrong. I'd been invited to be part of the 311 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 2: working group to develop this federal database. I remembering at 312 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 2: the Press Club in DC for this new initiative. I 313 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: wasn't wearing a brand new suit. I'd gone to Goodwill 314 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: and bought a super probably ten or fifteen dollars, because 315 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: I didn't know if i'd ever need it again. I 316 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: showed up at the Press Club and it was covered 317 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: with DC policy people and reporters. I thought, what any 318 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 2: hell can I do for these people? I thought, just 319 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 2: don't embarrass yourself, Todd. They were developing something that would 320 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 2: end up being called nameous, the National Missing and Unidentified 321 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 2: Person system light down network, but the government would run 322 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: it on a massive, grant funded scale and the best 323 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 2: part of all, they wanted me to help build it. 324 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 7: What the purpose of this database is is to literally 325 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 7: resolve unidentified persons cases against the missing person's data so 326 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 7: that ultimately, you know, these individuals can be identified a 327 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 7: return to family. 328 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 2: That's Tony Falseti. He's a forensic anthropologist now with the 329 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 2: Chief Medical Seminar in Washington, DC. It's a serious job. 330 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: You have to go through security and be escorted up 331 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: to this. All was in this massive government building. But 332 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: he didn't take long for me to cut through all 333 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 2: of that and become Tony's friend. 334 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 8: Todd was he efficient at our wedding in Knoxville, Tennessee. 335 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 8: He was very nervous. He was more nervous than we are. 336 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 8: But he did a fantastic job. 337 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 9: Yes, you know, he had to give himself ordained and 338 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 9: we were his first wedding, and as I understand it, 339 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 9: he's done several since. 340 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 3: Yep, he's got that right. 341 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 2: I introduced him and his wife, kait Yanna, a forensic artist, 342 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: and they thought I was a right fit for the job. Nowadays, 343 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: Tony basically spends his day looking at bones to learn 344 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 2: more about the person they once belonged to. 345 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 8: It's surprising how much you can tell from your bones. 346 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 3: But he's lighthearted about the work too. 347 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 2: His desk is filled with all these toy bone and 348 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 2: skull knick knacks, and he has sports jerseys on the wall. 349 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: Here's what he says makes a good forensic anthropologist. 350 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 9: Tenacity patients, attention to detail, critical thinking, and maybe a 351 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 9: little bit of awkwardness, introvertedness. You know, we enjoyed doing 352 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 9: these kinds of things, mostly on our own. 353 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 2: He was actually raised in Tennessee like me, but he 354 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 2: didn't have the accent at all. I met him at 355 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: the working group and we were all in Florida trying 356 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: to figure out what name is needed to be liked 357 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 2: him from the start, but I'm not sure he knew 358 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 2: what to make of me. 359 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 9: I really didn't know anything other than, you know, there 360 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 9: was this new individual who had joined us, who, you know, 361 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 9: we were told had experience, who was the first person 362 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 9: to actually sort of use the Internet and publicly generated 363 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 9: data or information to actually solve an unidentified person's case. 364 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 2: And it's true, I really wasn't the bitter government type. 365 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 2: Many times I have phone calls and I think people 366 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 2: were quite disarmed because they weren't expecting a Southern voice. 367 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 3: I didn't come for. 368 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: Other guys come from you know, they went through police 369 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: academy or whatever training. I floated into this career path 370 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 2: a different way. This thing called name US again, the 371 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: National Missing and Unidentified Person System. It's supposed to be 372 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: a tool, a clearinghouse for all missing and unidentified bodies. 373 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 2: If do network looks like a clunky, early two thousands website, 374 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: names looks awfully sterling clinical. There's no doubt it's a 375 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 2: government website. 376 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 8: But do you think it was based on well, ultimately 377 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 8: Todd's model. 378 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: At the time, I was still working at the factory, 379 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 2: so I basically used up my vacation time to help 380 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 2: him out. 381 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 3: It felt worth it. 382 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 2: We all had same goal. We wanted to match two 383 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 2: groups of people, missing people and John and Jane does 384 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: people like the two boys I couldn't. 385 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 3: Get out of my head. 386 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 2: Around two thousand and nine, two years after that press 387 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 2: club trip, I was able to quit my job at 388 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: the factory and started working as a contractor for the 389 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 2: Department of Justice. I had to scare police reports and 390 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 2: autopsies for details to build out missing person's profiles. The 391 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: work actually isn't all that complicating, but you got to 392 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 2: be relentless about finding facts. 393 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 3: What idea is basically. 394 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 2: Entering data, putting in clues like a person's height, weight, 395 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 2: circumstances of I'm going missing. 396 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 3: I loved it. I was all in. 397 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 2: One of my bosses, doctor Arthur Eisenberg, great guy. I 398 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 2: once told him I wasn't sure I was the right 399 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: man for this job. Said, you're giving me a job 400 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 2: that people a PhDs have and I don't have their training. 401 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: But he didn't care. He saw something in me. He said, 402 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: go forth and heal the broken hearts. 403 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 3: How's that? 404 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 2: And he turned his little chair around and went back 405 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 2: to work, And. 406 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 3: So did I. 407 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 2: When people die, use of the next to ken is notified. 408 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: But what if there's no known next to ken? What 409 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 2: if there's no one to identify the body and say, yep, 410 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 2: that's my son in that case, in medical examiner's office 411 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: will take down data points. Maybe they'll send their bones 412 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 2: to the FBI in Quantico, Virginia, or to Tony, a 413 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 2: forensic anthropologist with all the bones in his office. 414 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 9: What we do is we examine humans going remains for 415 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 9: the purposes of identification, and in doing that, we developed 416 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 9: the basic biological profile of that individual, which would be 417 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 9: their age, sex, hopefully some information about their ancestry, whether 418 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 9: it's Europe, Asia, Africa, and then how tall they were. 419 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 2: Tony can even tell if someone has healed fractures or 420 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 2: head cavities that they got filled. 421 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 9: Our entire life, Everything that we encounter, whether their childhood 422 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 9: diseases or illnesses or injuries, are written in our bones 423 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 9: and they stay there now. 424 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 2: At the same time, people go missing and there's date 425 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 2: on that too. Let's say your sister goes missing, she's black, 426 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 2: mid forties, had dental fillings on two molars, and a 427 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: tattoo on the right shoulder of a butterfly. That all 428 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: gets entered into name us and when there's enough overlap 429 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 2: in information, there's a potential match and we look into 430 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: it further. Mike Nancy's job at NamUs was basically to 431 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 2: fill out the profile. He's a former homicide detective who 432 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 2: gives like one hundred and ten percent. 433 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 3: Cares about the work. 434 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,239 Speaker 2: He wants to see a family made wholes so they 435 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 2: can stop spinning out of control. 436 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 10: I kind of characterize it as the movie roundhog Day, 437 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 10: when Bill Murray woke up every day at six o'clock 438 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 10: to the same music. What's what families do? They wake 439 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 10: up every morning to the same nightmare that they have 440 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 10: of what can they do to find their loved one. 441 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 2: We help answer those questions, but Names is not out 442 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: on the street solving crimes. We're helping law enforcement do that, 443 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 2: but we're also doing something cops often and don't have 444 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 2: time to do, helping family who've lost loved ones. He'll 445 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 2: I was the first regional systems administrator handling missing people 446 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 2: and unknown people around the Southeast. There were thousands of 447 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: open cases at any given time. Among those thousands was 448 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 2: a case I'd come across in two thousand and four. 449 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 2: It eluded me. It was the one with the serial 450 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: killer and the two boys. In the early two thousand, 451 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: I'd read a book about a suspected cereal killer and 452 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 2: the murder of this one young woman in Oklahoma. Now, 453 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: this serial killer, a man named Franklin Floyd, wasn't famous 454 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 2: on the level of say, Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy, 455 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 2: but the impact he had on this one family was 456 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 2: immeasurable and that's what I wanted to know more about. 457 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 2: The book mentioned two of her relatives, two boys. They 458 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 2: have both vanished, one in the seventies and one in 459 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 2: the nineties. This boggled my mind. How could they have 460 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 2: disappeared and no one was looking for him? What made 461 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 2: these cases even more challenged and was neither body was 462 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: ever found. So I entered what I knew about Michael 463 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 2: Hughes the school age boy, into the databases. He was 464 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 2: six years old, brown hair, brown eyes, scar on the forehead, 465 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 2: two crooked bottom teeth. But the infant was a real 466 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 2: mystery to me. All I had to start with was 467 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 2: a name. Philip Stephen Brandenburg was so little to go 468 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: on it was really hard to fill out his profile 469 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 2: on the dough Network and especially name us I because 470 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 2: infants don't have dental records or tattoos. 471 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 3: Lots of babies start. 472 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 2: At with a mop of blonde hair and a year 473 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 2: later have a totally different color, or they started with 474 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 2: curly hair and end up with it straight. The other 475 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: challenge is if for some reason, your parents aren't looking 476 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: for you. It's not like a coworker or landlord is either. 477 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: For all intents and purposes, Philip Stephen Brandyburg never existed 478 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: in the first place. 479 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 3: I only knew about him because. 480 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: He was mentioned in a book that I'd written in 481 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 2: early two thousands about a serial killer. I had no 482 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 2: paperwork to go off of, nothing official. I'd hope that 483 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 2: be I would have tracked down those documents, But when 484 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 2: it came to them with questions about the Brandenburgs, we 485 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 2: were pretty shocked. Here's my buddy mite nance again. 486 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 10: In the case of Philip Brandenburgh, the FBI agent could 487 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 10: not validate or could not determine if Brandenburg was ever born, 488 00:24:58,600 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 10: had ever existed. 489 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 2: I was taken with the case, possibly the toughest I 490 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 2: ever took on. I knew there was more to the story. 491 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 2: I just had a feeling if I found out more 492 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: information about Philip, it would leave me somewhere. I had 493 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 2: to go. You'll learn this about me. It's kind of 494 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 2: just the way I am. I feel things pretty strongly 495 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 2: more than others. Maybe, like I said, the case chose me. 496 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 2: At the time. I was still at the DOJ, so 497 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 2: the happy I were compelled to talk to me. If 498 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 2: I weren't, they might have said, none of your business. 499 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 2: But asking them about Philip was an ass backwards way 500 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 2: of finding out. They didn't have any paperwork on him period. 501 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 2: But I thought he had to be born somewhere everybody is, 502 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 2: and maybe this person existed somehow, some way, maybe someone 503 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 2: out there was missing him and he deserved to be 504 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 2: found dead or alive. The network is populated by public records, 505 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: stuff like newspaper clippings, missing persons pages. We went in 506 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 2: and added everything we could about Philip where we thought 507 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 2: he was born, for he might have been last seen, 508 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 2: and then Mike and I put this case into NamUs, 509 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 2: Michael's regional specialist in charge of the case. 510 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 10: So we had the missing person case and names as 511 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 10: Philip Brandenburgh and so then it became my task to 512 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 10: try to enhance that as much as possible. 513 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 2: His job was to find more clues about this missing boy, 514 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 2: like if you had any distinguishing marks or features, or 515 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: where he was last seen. And then I had to wait. 516 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 2: But I'm not a patient person. There's just some things 517 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: I want to let go. That could be something people 518 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 2: say as applaw. 519 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 5: He is committed. He does not stop. If he gets 520 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 5: his mind on a case, he finishes it through. 521 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 2: I know what this all sounds like a little morbid, 522 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 2: but it's not to me. I have something of a 523 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 2: connection to dead people. They've been in my life for 524 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 2: as long as I can remember. I was two years 525 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 2: old when my mother had my sister. Her name was 526 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 2: Sue Anne. She lived for just a bury, brief sparkle 527 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 2: of life. 528 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 8: That was it. 529 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 2: Most days I can't talk about this, but one night 530 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 2: I was able to just once. And that's a tape 531 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 2: you're hearing right now. Mom still never got over my sister. 532 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 2: It was always there. And she was pregnant again, this 533 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 2: time with my brother Greg, and we waited for him. 534 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 3: We even had a name if he. 535 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: Was a boy or if he's a girl. So he 536 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 2: was born and he was sick. He was very clear 537 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 2: that there was visible birth effects. So they took him 538 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 2: to Vanderbilt in an ambulance. So he was gone, and 539 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 2: it was the second day that he passed away by hisself. 540 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 3: And that's hard to think about. 541 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 2: I was only nine years old but then and had 542 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 2: lost two siblings. Our family was shell shocked. It was 543 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: no period of time. And I remember the first time 544 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 2: we went to his grave. I remember my mom, she 545 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 2: of the red mud, and she caught it all over 546 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 2: that put her in a car and it almost looked 547 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 2: like blood on her hands. She just holding her hands 548 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 2: and she just stunned, and she said, I can't leave 549 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 2: him in this cold ground. 550 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 3: But we had to. We had to. 551 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 2: Most people aren't exposed to death until later in life. 552 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 2: But me, I knew about death before I even set 553 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 2: foot in kindergarten. No one tried to shelter me from 554 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 2: the death of my siblings, even when I was a 555 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 2: child myself. Our family actually owned the cemetery before even 556 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 2: my mom and dad were alive. As a result, I 557 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: never thought of death as taboo or creepy. These were 558 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: my family members and they were present in my life 559 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: the way that I knew my brother and sister. They 560 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 2: were never really gone in a way, they were there. 561 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 2: Their names were on the grave. You know. 562 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 3: We took care of the cemetery. 563 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 2: We would play while my mom and dad, my aunt 564 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: and uncle, they would mow the cemetery. And as I 565 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: got older, working with the tent Girl and other cases, 566 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 2: I'm hearing all of these stories and they don't even 567 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 2: know where they are. Missing can be worse than dead. 568 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: And then having a tombstone with John or Jane Doe 569 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 2: on it it just didn't compute. You know, I thought, 570 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 2: at least I know where mine are, at least I 571 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 2: know who they are. 572 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 3: How could you not have a name on your tombstone? 573 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 2: If I really think about it, I think I became 574 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 2: so focused on these two children because of my own 575 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: brother and sister. I had to give these two missing 576 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 2: boys the dignity of a headstone. Anyone who knows me 577 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 2: knows I'm a long way from perfect, and they might. 578 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 3: Also say that I should have let this case go. 579 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: But just like I did with the tent girl, I 580 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 2: held on to hope. 581 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 3: It's kind of like fishing. 582 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 2: I put up my line and worm and waited for someone, 583 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 2: and you feel it to bite. But I had to 584 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: go about my life. My wife and I had our 585 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 2: second son. There were other cases that needed my attention. 586 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,719 Speaker 2: Then one day I got a call from an unknown 587 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 2: number in twenty nineteen, fifteen years after I started looking. 588 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 3: I don't even know how I got your number. 589 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 2: I was in my house in the kitchen doing something, 590 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: probably pasting. I never really sat down. I didn't recognize 591 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 2: the number. I thought it might have been a telemarketer 592 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 2: or wrong number, but then I thought, you never know. 593 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: I'll pick this one up, and I. 594 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 11: Told him myselught our conversation, I was like, you don't 595 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 11: believe this. I said, I don't blame you if you 596 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 11: don't believe it, because this sounds crazy. And I started explaining. 597 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 3: He took the time to listen. 598 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 8: He picked up the phone. 599 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 11: I mean, it was just one in a billion. I 600 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 11: guess my name is Steve Patterson living in Chervynth, Carolina. 601 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 11: I'm forty nine years old, and I searched my name 602 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 11: and found the missing person's report. 603 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 2: This guy, Steve Patterson, was calling to say that he 604 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 2: thought he was Phillip Stephen brandon Burg, that maybe this 605 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 2: was his real name that had been changed to me. 606 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 2: It was just a baby, he'd later tell me. He 607 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 2: was looking at the Dough Network, that clinky website I 608 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 2: helped build. What he found was a missing person's page 609 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: for a boy with the last named Brandenburgh. The details 610 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 2: seemed familiar, first because the baby was born in April 611 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four, just like Steve. Second because that name, 612 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 2: Philip Stephen Brandenburg. He had seen it once written on 613 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 2: a manila envelope in his parents house. And now he 614 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 2: had called me because he was wondering if it might 615 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 2: be his real name. Steve was looking for the authorities instead, 616 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 2: he called me directly. 617 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 11: It just opened a pluggate then, I mean, it just started. 618 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 11: Everything started falling into place, and I'm not gonna go 619 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 11: with computers. I don't know how in the world I 620 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 11: found all this out. 621 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 2: Steve and I started talking and talking and talking. This 622 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: was the first time in a long career of working 623 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 2: on John and Jane Doe cases that one of them 624 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 2: me up on the phone. Was he the infant I 625 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 2: was looking for? At the time, there was no way 626 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 2: to know for sure. The time in lined up, he 627 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 2: would have been an infant in nineteen seventy four. Now 628 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 2: he's a grown man. But there was something about Steve's 629 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 2: tone that shook me. He sounded so desperate to find 630 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 2: out who his people were. I remember the way he 631 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 2: said it, I don't know who I am. I don't 632 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 2: think in that moment Steve knew how far I'd gone 633 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 2: looking for him, or that in order to find him, 634 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 2: I'd written to a convicted murderer so many years ago. 635 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 2: If this man was who he said he was, it 636 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 2: would have meant he had escaped the clutches of a 637 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 2: serial killer while his siblings didn't. It would have been 638 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 2: a miracle, but by now you know. 639 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 3: Stranger things have happened. 640 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 2: This season of Hello John Doe a fugitive on the 641 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 2: run for thirty plus years. 642 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 10: The actual folders for the case, I would say, would 643 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 10: stack about six feet. 644 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 2: High, mixedup identities and screwed up pseud anuns. 645 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 6: It's one of the most unique cases I was ever 646 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 6: involved with. 647 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 2: And a family left behind trying to solve a lifetime 648 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 2: of mysteries. 649 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 12: Yes, they did take a DNAC and then I said, 650 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 12: well did you find Steve? 651 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 7: And they said, who's Steve? 652 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 12: I said, Steve Swain little boy. 653 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 2: Well, it was thunderstruck. 654 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 9: It was something I never and no parent ever wants 655 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 9: to hear their child go through. 656 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 12: You know, instead of being part of the family, he 657 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 12: was given away, when in all reality it saved his life. 658 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 2: Hello John Doe is an original productions by Revelations Entertainment 659 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 2: and association with First and Life's Productions from Revelations. Our 660 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 2: executive producers are Morgan Freeman and James Younger from First 661 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 2: to Last. Lindsay Moreno is the executive producer. Our producing 662 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 2: partner is New on Home Media. It was written and 663 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 2: produced by Katee Michigan. Our editor is Katherine Saint Louis. 664 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 2: She is also nil on Home Media's executive editor. Our 665 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 2: executive producer is Sharah Morris. Our development producer is Ian Lindsay. 666 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Rufaro Faith Maserua. Sound design and 667 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 2: mixing by Scott Summerville. Theme and original music composed by 668 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 2: Jesse Pearlstein. Additional music came from Epidemic Sound and Blue 669 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 2: Dot Sessions. 670 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 3: Bendall Faulton is our fact checker. 671 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 2: Our production manager is Samantha Allison from my Heart Media. 672 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 2: Dylan Fagans our executive producer. Special thanks to Adelia Ruben 673 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 2: at n on HUM and Carrie Lieberman and Will Pearson 674 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 2: at iHeartMedia. I'm Todd Matthews. You can learn more about 675 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 2: name us at NamUs dot com. The number for the 676 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 2: National Center for Missing Exploited Children's Call Center is one 677 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 2: eight hundredth the loss that's one eight hundred eight four 678 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 2: three five six seven eight. The National Sexual Assault Hotline 679 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 2: from the Rate Abuse and Incest National Network is one 680 00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 2: eight hundred. 681 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 3: Sixty five six six seven through. Okay, guys, this is 682 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 3: the end of the show. 683 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 2: If you didn't like it, don't do anything. But if 684 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 2: you did like it, you make sure that you rate 685 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 2: and review the show. It helps more people to find 686 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 2: it and hear this wonderful story. Thanks again for listening.