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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece Brian Coburger, the man accused

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Speaker 1: in the murders of four Beautiful University, Idaho students. In

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Speaker 1: the last hours, we learned that the search warrants executed

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Speaker 1: by law enforcement could be more crucial than we could

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Speaker 1: ever have imagined. What do I mean? We learn that

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Speaker 1: law enforcement looking for activity on multiple social media platforms

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Speaker 1: including TikTok, Google and tender. Did Brian Coburger identify at

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Speaker 1: least one of his murder victims as law long ago

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Speaker 1: as twenty twenty one? Now? What does that mean? We

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Speaker 1: know that he left DePaul University, where he had gotten

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Speaker 1: his master's degree in criminal studies, and he traveled to

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Speaker 1: Washington State University after getting accepted there in the PhD

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Speaker 1: program in the same field criminal justice. Was a fascination

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Speaker 1: with one or more of the Idaho slave units his

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Speaker 1: reason for traveling over two thousand miles from home. Guys,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I'm Nancy Grayson. Joining

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Speaker 1: me is Cheryl McCullum, who was just recently inducted into

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Speaker 1: the Law Enforcement Hall of Fame. She's a forensic expert.

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Speaker 1: She's the star of a hit podcast, Zone seven and

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Speaker 1: she is then and director of the Coal Case Investigative

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Speaker 1: Research Institute. Cheryl, are you surprised. I'm not surprised, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: You and I even talked long ago that law enforcement

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Speaker 1: has got to go back. They work backwards now to

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Speaker 1: see when, in fact, he first you know, connected with

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Speaker 1: these victims, first intersected, first cross paths with They've got

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Speaker 1: to find that out, because that's going to add to

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Speaker 1: the timeline. When did he first see a photograph? When

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Speaker 1: did he first email? When did he first visit with

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Speaker 1: them at the coffee shop or at the restaurant or

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Speaker 1: on campus? You know, I'm thinking about his truck from

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Speaker 1: where his family home is in the Poconos, all the

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Speaker 1: way to Washington State University. Think about it, Cheryl, Why

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Speaker 1: would he choose to venture nearly three thousand miles away

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Speaker 1: to get his PhD? Why? Now, maybe they gave him

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Speaker 1: a scholarship, Maybe that was the only place he got accepted.

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Speaker 1: I'd want to know all those answers. Why he chose WSU.

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Speaker 1: It's a fine school, right saying that it's not, I'm

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Speaker 1: saying what motivated him to do that? We learned that

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Speaker 1: to go ahead. I was just gonna say I think

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Speaker 1: that's going to be an important thing when they show

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Speaker 1: how many programs did he apply to, how many was

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Speaker 1: he accepted in, how many times did he visit the campus.

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Speaker 1: Then if he hadn't seen these girls online, he would

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Speaker 1: have to then figure out, well, you know what I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say, how to find them. But they made

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Speaker 1: that abundantly clear, very innocently and without any guile, by

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Speaker 1: posting the lives they were living, their friends, where they

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Speaker 1: were doing, where they were going like everyone does, and

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Speaker 1: geo tagging, so he knew exactly where they were. Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: he knew, and again he knew in real time. All

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Speaker 1: you've got to even do was look on a sorority's

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Speaker 1: website and they'll tell you when they're having day parties,

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Speaker 1: when they're formal, is where it is, what time it is.

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Speaker 1: So you can locate people very easily because their lives

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Speaker 1: are so public. Now, I mean, look at this timing.

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Speaker 1: We know that Coburger was in the very first weeks

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Speaker 1: of his program. He had just really gotten started in

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Speaker 1: his PhD program, and that means twenty twenty one, he

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Speaker 1: wasn't even there yet. Cheryl, Well, not only that, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: it was a quick you know succession to when the

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Speaker 1: crimes occurred. He wasn't on campus law and before the

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Speaker 1: murders happened. Again, this escalated very quickly. And of course

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Speaker 1: the girls were already there because remember one of them

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Speaker 1: had already graduated and had taken a job in Texas

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Speaker 1: and only came back to show her friends her new vehicle, right,

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Speaker 1: remember that. So they were there, Yeah, they were there

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. So did he find them, Yes,

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Speaker 1: they were already there, living a life and posting. So

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Speaker 1: let's analyze this thing. In twenty twenty one, he was,

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Speaker 1: I guess looking for PhD programs. He was there at

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Speaker 1: DePaul and then travels all the way across the country.

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Speaker 1: And the reason we're we're getting this strand of reasoning

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Speaker 1: is because we now learned that search warrants executed to

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Speaker 1: various social media media platforms date back to twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: They want information all the way back to them. Now.

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Speaker 1: They are looking at TikTok and Google goal for three

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Speaker 1: the three women, Zanna, Kelly and Madison, and tender for Kelly,

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Speaker 1: Gonsalvis and Maddie Mogan. They're not looking at tender for Zanna.

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Speaker 1: And I noticed specifically that they're not looking at Ethan

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Speaker 1: Chapin's social media back to twenty twenty one at all.

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Speaker 1: So what do you make of that? I make of

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Speaker 1: it exactly what you and I said from day one.

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Speaker 1: The targets were on the third floor. There was no

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Speaker 1: reason once he gained entries at home that he would

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Speaker 1: go to the third floor first, men or A to

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Speaker 1: B people they like an exit route. By going to

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Speaker 1: the third floor, he had no exit. He would have

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Speaker 1: had to traverse back down the steps, passing another bedroom,

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Speaker 1: you know, possibly getting caught, possibly being seen. But when

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Speaker 1: he came men, he made the decision to go upstairs first.

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Speaker 1: And we know that because you've got a witness that

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Speaker 1: heard it. She heard a commotion that she thought was,

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Speaker 1: you know, them playing with the dogs or something, and

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Speaker 1: then she knew the other victim was awake on the

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Speaker 1: second floor because she saw her talking to the killer.

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Speaker 1: So we know that. So why would he enter that

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Speaker 1: home and immediately, without searching, without looking around, go upstairs

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Speaker 1: because that was his target and he already knew the

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Speaker 1: layout of the house, He already knew who was in

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Speaker 1: what bedroom. And so again law enforcement working backwards wants

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Speaker 1: to know when not only did you maybe meet them,

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Speaker 1: but when did you start following them on social media,

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Speaker 1: which we already know he's a stalker. He took those

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Speaker 1: twelve weeks, Nancy and followed them. They've got him on videos,

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Speaker 1: they've got his phone pinning, they've got him getting a

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Speaker 1: traffic ticket. He was in that area for the twelve

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Speaker 1: the week leading up to the murders, Cheryl will call them.

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Speaker 1: Legal eagles and sleuths have been hypothesizing that possibly Coburger

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Speaker 1: met the girls on a school tour, because if you

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Speaker 1: go all the way from the Poconos, New New York

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Speaker 1: State near Pennsylvania, you go all the way across the

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Speaker 1: country to Washington State University, you're not going to turn

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Speaker 1: around and come back that night after the school tour, right,

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Speaker 1: And even though there are two different schools. He went

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Speaker 1: to Washington State University, they were at University Idaho, They're

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Speaker 1: ten minutes apart. When we were there, going to every

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Speaker 1: single site that we had heard of as it relates

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Speaker 1: to this case, and then some we found on our own.

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Speaker 1: We drove the distance. A lot of people from WSU

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Speaker 1: come over and go to the mad Greek where one

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Speaker 1: of the victims worked go up and down that. There's

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Speaker 1: a main street where all the stores and the restaurants are.

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Speaker 1: There's just a main hangout areas, a pretty neat area

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Speaker 1: where the Mad Greek is. I could easily see Coburger

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Speaker 1: coming over there to just look look at it, walk it,

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Speaker 1: see what it's like before he decides to go there.

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Speaker 1: And coincidentally, that is where one of the girls worked.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you're in a college town like that,

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Speaker 1: like South Carolina for example. You know South Carolina is

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Speaker 1: right there. Well there's like another private college ten minutes away. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well they are shared restaurants, they're shared bars, they're shared

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Speaker 1: you know stores. So a ten minute ride. There was

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Speaker 1: some restaurants that were indicative of what he liked, like

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Speaker 1: the vegan type restaurants. Again a possibility where he met

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Speaker 1: them because they worked there. But it's not a far

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Speaker 1: trek at all. And you did such a remarkable job

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Speaker 1: because you and I preached you have to drive what

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Speaker 1: the killer drove, you have to walk where he walked.

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Speaker 1: You've got to see it literally boots on the ground.

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Speaker 1: When you did the first driving tour from the apartment

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Speaker 1: to the crime scene, and then you walked and you

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Speaker 1: stayed out in front of the house so that we

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Speaker 1: could literally see where the fraternity house was, where the

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Speaker 1: other apartments were. It was a remarkable shift for me

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Speaker 1: to know that not only was he stalking them again,

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Speaker 1: he took some exit routes away. You know, their parking

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Speaker 1: lot is in one way out one way, and when

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Speaker 1: he got the traffic ticket again, he's right there. So

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Speaker 1: we knew there was a great possibility that he was

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Speaker 1: going to be on video from the stores and from

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Speaker 1: that other apartment complex. It was an extraordinary job. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you. I'm just trying to place in my mind

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Speaker 1: everything that I saw there. Cheryl McCollum. With what we're

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Speaker 1: learning now, specifically about the execution of these search warrants,

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Speaker 1: we're learning dating back as far as twenty one why

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? Time stories with Nancy Grace. What

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Speaker 1: does that mean? It suggests that LA law enforcement believes

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Speaker 1: that Coburger was communicating with, or at least trying to

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Speaker 1: communicate with, at least one of these girls long long

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Speaker 1: before they were murdered. What else do we know? We

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Speaker 1: know right now that co Burger is obsessed with coverage

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Speaker 1: off his own case. We've been told that cable TV

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Speaker 1: charged by the minute, Cheryl McCollum, and he is glued

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Speaker 1: to his TV while the other inmates i'll have to

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Speaker 1: share a TV. He has his own. Well, I hope

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Speaker 1: he's watching you, and I hope he realizes by watching

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Speaker 1: you how much trouble he's in and how many doors

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Speaker 1: are closing to his defense. They have got so much

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Speaker 1: on him from his phone, I guarantee you by now,

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Speaker 1: from his computers. They're adding to that the social media

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Speaker 1: from the victim and when it shows that he knew them,

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Speaker 1: possibly prior to him going to school there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's something a jury is not going to be able

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Speaker 1: to do anything with but just be shocked and disgusted.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine him going to one of the sorority

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Speaker 1: or the fraternity parties and just blending in, although he

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like the kind of guy that could blend in.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you see this guy the other day. I

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Speaker 1: was on my iPad reading about Brian Coburger, and there's that,

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Speaker 1: or there's so many, but there's one photo in specific,

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Speaker 1: in particular, where he's got on his orange prison suit.

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Speaker 1: He's handcuffed and he's walking into the jail or to

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Speaker 1: court one or the other. He's being escorted by law enforcement.

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Speaker 1: And he looks over at the camera that was the

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Speaker 1: picture up on my iPad, and Lucy just walked by

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Speaker 1: my little girl and went, oh, my stars, look at

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Speaker 1: that death stair. And she's just fifteen, So a death stair. Then,

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Speaker 1: of course John David ran over and started comparing it

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Speaker 1: to other people that he thinks has a death stair.

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Speaker 1: Long story short. Even my fifteen year old twins said,

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Speaker 1: oh creep. I wouldn't get near him, stay away, stay with.

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Speaker 1: Lucy was saying, stay away, mom, stay away. So you

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Speaker 1: think he could really blend to end at a sorority party?

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Speaker 1: No way, zero chance, not blending in Okay, So how

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Speaker 1: do we get off on him at a sorority party?

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Speaker 1: I think that was my fault. I mean, you know

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Speaker 1: what a sority party? Can you imagine this guy after

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Speaker 1: a couple of glasses of hooch Wow. What we're talking

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Speaker 1: about is hoops juice, which is some horrible blend of

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Speaker 1: something that it's like a bad nineteen year old daughter. Wait,

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Speaker 1: what is in Who's what's in there? It's like grain

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Speaker 1: alcohol and koob late. It's disgusting. Of course, I'm a teetotler,

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Speaker 1: but I have seen who's before it at parties? What

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Speaker 1: is that? Can you imagine Cobergert a sorority party on

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Speaker 1: some hooch, Get a glass of that day? Something? He

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Speaker 1: would stick out so bad because not only is he

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Speaker 1: a creep to women, men think he's a creed too,

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Speaker 1: And that's rare that men would say there's something, there's

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Speaker 1: some of this guy. You mean that a man would

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Speaker 1: pick up on any non verbal communication. Is that what

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Speaker 1: you're trying to say? Yeah, because you know I say

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Speaker 1: that to my husband all the time, like what's wrong

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Speaker 1: with you? And of course he's found a way to

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Speaker 1: deflect that. Sadly he gives everything and then that kind

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Speaker 1: of leaves behind try nowhere to go after he admits

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Speaker 1: and confesses, So I just have to walk off and defeat.

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Speaker 1: But like I try to say something right about his answer.

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Speaker 1: The greatest thing about David's answer is everything wrong with him?

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Speaker 1: But you picked him? Yeah. I always say, you know what, David,

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Speaker 1: it's my fault. You can't help what you are, but

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Speaker 1: I selected you. But but I turned the table on

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Speaker 1: him with that too. But wait a minute, Wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, Okay, we were talking about sorority and

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Speaker 1: the hoops. Oh, nonverbal communication. You should see this, like

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Speaker 1: I'm with the twins, And of course John David wants

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Speaker 1: to watch John Wick one, two, and three to prepare

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Speaker 1: for John Wick for and I'm like, no, your dad

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Speaker 1: specifically wanted to watch the National Geographic, you know, the

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Speaker 1: one where the animals fight each other. And I look

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Speaker 1: at David and go like, I make a face like,

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Speaker 1: isn't that what you said, David, isn't it? And of

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Speaker 1: course David goes, what just yeah, what the animals fighting

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Speaker 1: each other? National Geographic? Anyway, My point is they don't

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Speaker 1: seem to pick up on nonverbal cues as well as women.

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Speaker 1: I'm not hating, and I'm not just I'm just putting

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Speaker 1: it out there. Well, I two what, they're great as

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Speaker 1: the great at summing up other men. That's true, that's really,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I always wonder why a guy can

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Speaker 1: spot another guy loser a mile away, but when women

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Speaker 1: fall from them and marry them for Pete's sake. But okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: Coburger at the party with the glass of hoo chin him,

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Speaker 1: He's still not gonna blend down. But when you say that, Okay,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, back to our train of thought. I

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Speaker 1: blame you for driving this bus into the weeds. Let's

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Speaker 1: get back into the middle of the road. You're right,

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Speaker 1: because right a minute, this happens every time I'm alone

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Speaker 1: with you. Cheryl will go, Okay, where we were is

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Speaker 1: that he's creepy? Lucy saw it. John David saw it.

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Speaker 1: But it's not just them. Think about at the restaurant

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Speaker 1: when he would go up restaurant bar, he would meet

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Speaker 1: a girl and go, what's your home address? Of course

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Speaker 1: they ran from that and to the point where he

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Speaker 1: put off so many women that they asked him to

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Speaker 1: please stop talking to women or just leave and don't

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Speaker 1: come back. Remember there's that incident, and then there's a

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Speaker 1: teaching assistant incident where he seemed to pick on women

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Speaker 1: to the point that he was going to lose his

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Speaker 1: teaching assistant position as a PhD student. It's not Oh

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Speaker 1: and I spoke to a student there and she told

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Speaker 1: me that he had a reputation for being really hard

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Speaker 1: and picking on girls. So if it was just one

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Speaker 1: person saying it, you could discount it. But Cheryl, there's

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Speaker 1: so many people saying it that he was just off

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Speaker 1: putting Nancy what I think. We got to be clear though,

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Speaker 1: if you're somewhere and Denzel Washington walks up to you

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Speaker 1: and says, what joham adread, Honey, I'm gonna pay dick.

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Speaker 1: Thing was like, come on, yeah, you may be tempted,

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Speaker 1: but I will do nothing to lose full custody of

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Speaker 1: the twins. I don't care if it is Denzel Washington.

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Speaker 1: You know why an't you aticizing with you about Denzel Washington?

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Speaker 1: This is about Brian Coburger and the search warrant and

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Speaker 1: his obsessive watching of TV of himself. It's by the minute,

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Speaker 1: you have to pay by the minute, and he apparently

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Speaker 1: watches it obsessively. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, so he

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Speaker 1: knows he's obsessed with watching himself on TV and Courage.

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Speaker 1: We also were learning his family has not visited him

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Speaker 1: at all. What does that mean? Well, they may not

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Speaker 1: be visiting him, but somebody's paying for that TV exactly

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Speaker 1: and putting money on his books. Where he's got some

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Speaker 1: you know, unfortunate female that thinks, you know, he's going

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Speaker 1: to now fall in love with her like they sometimes do.

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Speaker 1: But again, he is focused on himself, which has been

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Speaker 1: his problem since he was about four, and this is

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Speaker 1: nothing unusual. His family probably is not going to make

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Speaker 1: the trip as much as anything. Um, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think his sister has already made some statements. I think

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Speaker 1: his father has made some statements. But they are in

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Speaker 1: a horrible position. They are probably being ostracized by friends

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Speaker 1: and families. They don't know where to go, they don't

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Speaker 1: know what to do with this. I'm sure they want

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Speaker 1: to support him on one hand, and they just cannot

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Speaker 1: be true. But on the other hand, they also know

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Speaker 1: what they know. They know we came home and washed

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Speaker 1: his car for the first time ever. He took the

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Speaker 1: trash out, probably for the first time ever. He did dishes,

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Speaker 1: which that make any sense, He's never done that before.

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Speaker 1: So they know they you know, he was acting oddly,

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Speaker 1: that he's done some things that have been odd for years.

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Speaker 1: This is not something that's going to catch them completely off.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's interesting how many times in a murder case.

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Speaker 1: In other cases, maybe not drugs, maybe not drug cases

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Speaker 1: where you've got a doper in the neighborhood, but I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about personal person cases like murder, assault, domestic violence, rape,

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Speaker 1: side of me, child wa station personal person cases. When

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Speaker 1: you go in the neighborhood, your people say, I know

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Speaker 1: that was a weird dude, that was one freaky guy,

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Speaker 1: and they can never quite put their finger on it,

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Speaker 1: and then they get arrested for a violent crime. Same

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Speaker 1: thing here all the time, all the time. And it

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Speaker 1: is the same thing here even not just the neighbors.

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Speaker 1: If you listen to what his quote friends said about him,

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Speaker 1: he was mean to them. He would be rude to them.

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Speaker 1: He would say things that were off putting. He would

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Speaker 1: say things that were bizarre and vulgar. So these are

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Speaker 1: people that are his buddies, his cohorts, the people he

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Speaker 1: hung out with. It's the closest people to you. That's

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Speaker 1: how they're describing you. Well, there you go. Well they

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Speaker 1: may not recognize him now because another revelation is that

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Speaker 1: he has lost a ton of weight behind bars. He

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Speaker 1: was already tall and lean, but now he's apparently lost

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Speaker 1: a lot of weight behind bars. And that brings to

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Speaker 1: mind two things. Number one, Ted Bundy who escaped from jail,

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Speaker 1: was it is that his first or second escape, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: he got small enough to get through a what would

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Speaker 1: you say, a square in the ceiling. And number Two,

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Speaker 1: he's a vegan, or he was when he went into jail,

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Speaker 1: so he must not like the food. I don't want

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Speaker 1: Treyburger escaping. I doubt there's two or three things he

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Speaker 1: can need a day, and it's not what he's used to. Again,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the places that he frequented, they

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Speaker 1: would nice, upscale restaurants. That ain't where he is today.

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Speaker 1: And also the thing about jail is you're surrounded by

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Speaker 1: other people. Even if you have a sail by yourself

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Speaker 1: right across from you, either side of you, it's loud,

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Speaker 1: it's disgusting, it's smells, it's constant. It's not like he

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Speaker 1: just relaxing and hanging out. This is a completely different world.

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Speaker 1: He went from a college setting where he was a ta,

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Speaker 1: where he was in control, he was revered, He thought

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Speaker 1: he was smarter than anybody else in the room, to

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Speaker 1: now he's a number. In the months Ted Bundy spent

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Speaker 1: in jail, he consistently lost pound after pound after pound,

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Speaker 1: and then had not one but one of his two

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Speaker 1: daring escapes. Why is Koberger trying to lose weight? We

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Speaker 1: also understand that he has quote found a god behind bars,

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Speaker 1: and it seems as if he gets to speak to

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Speaker 1: a spiritual advisor at will, sure, and he's going to

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Speaker 1: need him. I think that's one of the best things

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Speaker 1: that could happen. He needs somebody to help him, because

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Speaker 1: if he stays alone in that fell and he's talking

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Speaker 1: only basically to himself and he has no parents, usity,

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Speaker 1: no siblings, visiting, no friend nobody, the spiritual advisor can

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Speaker 1: at least hopefully walk him through some of the issues

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Speaker 1: that he's going to be having inside. You know what's interesting,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what you're saying and about him finding

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Speaker 1: allegedly finding God behind bars. Well, another thing is a

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Speaker 1: diversion because you get to talk to somebody else. It's

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Speaker 1: not an inmate screaming at from the other side of

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Speaker 1: the bars. He may be getting reading material from the advisor,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure about that, but it's a diversion. I

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Speaker 1: remember very well prosecuting inmates would suggest they were going

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Speaker 1: to enter a plee and just to have the trip

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Speaker 1: out of the jail on the county bus to come

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Speaker 1: to the courthouse and be somewhere different than in their

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Speaker 1: jail cell. So, for all I know that that's what's

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Speaker 1: happening with his spiritual advisor. It's just a diversion. Hey,

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Speaker 1: we got people that that plead not guilty so they

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Speaker 1: can just go to trial to order what they want

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Speaker 1: for lunch. I get it. You're now stuck there. The

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Speaker 1: reality of what the rest of your life is going

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Speaker 1: to be is hitting you. But I am not going

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Speaker 1: to discount anybody from trying to get right with whatever

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Speaker 1: higher or power they might need. Maybe he'll even come

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Speaker 1: to it and say, you know what, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: convince to everything. I mean, if you're really walking that

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Speaker 1: path and freaking wants that path, you know, Cheryl McColl

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Speaker 1: I doubt that's going to happen, But I just want

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Speaker 1: to touch one last time on these search warrants. If

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Speaker 1: this were anybody else other than someone like co Burger,

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Speaker 1: I would say, no way. Co Burger is a whole

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Speaker 1: another thing. He is the kind of person that would

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Speaker 1: follow somebody from twin twenty one to the time of

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Speaker 1: the murders. I could see him doing that, obsessively watching

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Speaker 1: their every move. Can you see that? I can see that,

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Speaker 1: And you remember you and I have a friend in

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Speaker 1: coming that's an FBI agent. It said that he taught

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Speaker 1: his daughter not to smile at strangers, because a stranger

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Speaker 1: could take the wrong message from you smiling at him.

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Speaker 1: And he taught her that. All the way through college,

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Speaker 1: he would say, don't do it, don't do it, don't

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Speaker 1: do it. Co Burger might have got it in his

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Speaker 1: head that somebody liked him, that somebody was his girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: that somebody was going to be the love of his life,

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Speaker 1: and if anything changed, like her moving, her moving out,

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Speaker 1: or her going to Texas, whatever prompted him to do

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Speaker 1: what he did, I think again came from the thirst floor.

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Speaker 1: The victims wasn't used to be there, and again a

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Speaker 1: strange car did not deter him from going in. I

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Speaker 1: think it's because he already knew it was her. We

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Speaker 1: wait to find out the return on the search warrants

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Speaker 1: that request information from TikTok, Google and Tender all the

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Speaker 1: way back to twenty twenty one and to Koberger behind

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Speaker 1: bars right now having your vegan food. Both appetite friend,

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Speaker 1: Goodbye everybody,