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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, I've got a question for you. Oh, let's hear.

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Speaker 1: I love questions. I'm not sure you like this one.

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Speaker 1: I've seen you cringe every time people ask you this.

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Speaker 1: M all right, now I'm curious. Let's hear the question.

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Speaker 1: All right? Are you still actively doing research? Oh? You're right.

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Speaker 1: I used to hate that question, but actually now I've

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Speaker 1: learned to love it. Oh yeah, yeah, what changed? You

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Speaker 1: actually started doing research? Well? Instead of grinding my teeth

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Speaker 1: at the suggestion that it's not possible to do outreach

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Speaker 1: and research, I just take it as another chance to

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Speaker 1: talk about my research. And hey, I love some ash

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Speaker 1: and stuff together, so I love talking about it. I

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Speaker 1: wonder if you pole assumed podcast and takes a long time.

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Speaker 1: If only they knew. Hi am Or Handley, cartoonists and

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Speaker 1: the creator of PhD comics. Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a

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Speaker 1: particle physicist and an actor researcher at you see Ermine,

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Speaker 1: and I love smashing together podcasts with my cartoonist friend.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like you said you're an actor researcher. I thought, whoa,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. You do acting as well. I do

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Speaker 1: my own math stunts. Unlike Leonardo DiCaprio. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: Leonardo needed a stunt man. Oh yeah, he couldn't write

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Speaker 1: the equations himself on the board or don't look up,

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Speaker 1: so they have to hire somebody to do his math

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Speaker 1: for him. But me, I live that danger, man. I

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Speaker 1: take those risks every day with my body. Did you

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Speaker 1: audition to be Leonardo de Capitos? You know, wrist standing?

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know that was a thing, But if

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Speaker 1: I had known it was a thing, I definitely would

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Speaker 1: have signed up for it. Absolutely. Yeah. You live right

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Speaker 1: next to Hollywood, why not you could be Robert Downey

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Speaker 1: Jr's wrist You could be. I think I look a

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Speaker 1: little bit more like Robert Downey Junior than Leonardo DiCaprio anyway.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think I look much like either of them.

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Speaker 1: You can say, I mean not not to say anything

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Speaker 1: about how you look, but you know, you just don't

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Speaker 1: look like Robert Downey Junior or Leonardo the Copier. You

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Speaker 1: look like a handsome Daniel Whitson. Like if Woody Allen

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Speaker 1: needed a math double, then I would be his math double.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you want to dull for Woody Allen

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Speaker 1: on any set. No, that's true, he's off the list,

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Speaker 1: but anyways, welcome to our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 1: the Universe, a production of My Heart Radio in which

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Speaker 1: we take all the risks by diving deep into the

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Speaker 1: unanswered questions about the universe. We don't shy away from

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Speaker 1: the dangerous math and the difficult questions. We ask them

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Speaker 1: straight up and wonder what the answers are. How big

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Speaker 1: is the universe, how old is it, what's happened to it?

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Speaker 1: What is it made out of? And most importantly, can

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Speaker 1: we explain it to you? Yeah, because it is a

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Speaker 1: very perplexing universe, full of things to wonder about, and

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Speaker 1: we like to take you right up to the edge

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Speaker 1: where scientists are taking all the cree different scientific risks

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out how everything works. This makes it

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Speaker 1: sound like science is kind of risky, Daniel, do you

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Speaker 1: have insurance for doing science? Is there science insurance? I

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Speaker 1: spent three years on this paper and it turned into nothing.

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Speaker 1: Pay me. Oh, I wish I would have so many payouts.

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Speaker 1: I think it's called tenure. That's pretty good insurance, right,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty good safety net. Although you know tenure doesn't

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Speaker 1: guarantee you funding. You can have a job, but no

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Speaker 1: money to do any actual work. But you still get paid.

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Speaker 1: You do get paid as long as you still do teaching.

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Speaker 1: That's true. But there are sort of intellectual risks involved

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Speaker 1: in science. What we do is research. It's a sort

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Speaker 1: of exploration. We don't know that there will be interesting

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Speaker 1: answers until we go out and look. The same way,

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Speaker 1: you don't know what's waiting for you when you first

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Speaker 1: land on the surface of some alien planet. Is it

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Speaker 1: filled with all sorts of incredible creatures or is it

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Speaker 1: just a desert of rubble. You don't know until you

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Speaker 1: go and look, and sometimes you hit the jackpot, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes you come home with dust. You think. It's not

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Speaker 1: like a casino, like a science, like a nature casino.

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Speaker 1: He did a bunch of scientists pulling the lever on

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Speaker 1: the slot machine of the universe. There's an enormous element

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Speaker 1: of luck, absolutely in making a discovery. You know, there

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Speaker 1: are people who are really clever and have good ideas

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Speaker 1: about where to look for the next big thing in

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Speaker 1: the universe, and then there are folks who just stumble

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Speaker 1: across it. Well, I'm an artist in a cartoonage, so

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about risky at all. You know

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about. I'll take ten years, sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you left one risky career for the ultimate risky career.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely well, I do have insurance, yeah, actually have cartoonist insurance. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've insured your right hand against injury. It's called marrying

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Speaker 1: someone with the stable job. Patronage. I think they call

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Speaker 1: that patronage. Yeah, patronage matronage. Actually maybe, But anyways, scientists

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Speaker 1: ask a lot of questions about the universe because we're

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out how the universe works. But they're

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Speaker 1: not the only ones who have questions about the things

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Speaker 1: around them. All of human he is trying to push

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Speaker 1: forward the envelope of knowledge and understanding and mystery just

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Speaker 1: by looking around us and wondering how things work. It's

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Speaker 1: not just those of us with a tenure job who

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Speaker 1: can take naps in the afternoon. It's everybody who wants

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Speaker 1: to know how the universe works. And everybody out there

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Speaker 1: asks questions about the universe. Yeah, and it's not like

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Speaker 1: only the scientists asked really cool and interesting and valid questions.

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Speaker 1: Everybody can ask these amazing questions, and in fact, there's

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Speaker 1: a huge amount of ore lap between the questions people

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Speaker 1: have every day, and the questions that scientists at the

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Speaker 1: forefront are asking because we're a lot more ignorant about

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Speaker 1: the nature of the universe than you might expect from

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Speaker 1: the fact that you can rely on technology and flying

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Speaker 1: airplanes and all that stuff. There are some pretty basic

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Speaker 1: questions that we just don't know how to grapple with,

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Speaker 1: so we mostly avoid them and work on other stuff

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Speaker 1: that's easier to tackle. So sometimes you ask us a

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Speaker 1: really hard, basic question like what is space? How does

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Speaker 1: time work? And you get a blank stare because it's

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing we just don't know the answer

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Speaker 1: to makes you wonder what you're doing to earn that tenure. Daniel,

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes I get great ideas while napping, while

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Speaker 1: napping interesting, and then you wake up and you forget him.

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Speaker 1: I keep a pad of paper actually next to the couch,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes I wake up and I look at the scribbles.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I have no idea what that says. And

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Speaker 1: other times I'm like, that seems like a good idea.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go try that sounds like. There's an episode

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Speaker 1: of Seinfeld where he has the same thing and he

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Speaker 1: spends the whole episode trying to figure out what he

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Speaker 1: wrote down in the path, and so don't leave us

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Speaker 1: in suspense. Did you get a great science idea? Did

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Speaker 1: he launch a new experiment and win a Nobel prize? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was a season. But everybody has questions, and they're

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Speaker 1: all awesome questions, and sometimes we get those questions here

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. People write to us or contact us

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Speaker 1: through social media, or they hang out at our discord

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Speaker 1: and that's where they ask the questions. That's right. We

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Speaker 1: welcome all of your questions. If you are curious about

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Speaker 1: the universe, or there's a science concept you haven't heard

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Speaker 1: explain to your satisfaction, please write to us two questions

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Speaker 1: at Daniel and Jorge dot com. Everybody deserves to understand

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Speaker 1: the universe, or at least understand how little we know

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Speaker 1: about the universe. Yeah, so to be on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: we'll be tackling listener questions number the Annihilation Confabulation special

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Speaker 1: that didn't quite work out, that's right. A lot of

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Speaker 1: these questions have to do with smashing stuff together, blowing

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Speaker 1: things up for science, which in the end is something

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Speaker 1: I love to do. You like blowing things up for science,

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Speaker 1: or you're like smashing things for science. I thought we

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Speaker 1: had this conversation Daniel, it's not the same thing unless

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Speaker 1: you blow up the entire world and went to case, um,

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Speaker 1: please don't do that, and I guess it won't matter anyways.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think it's an artificial dichotomy. I think

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Speaker 1: there's a spectrum between smashing stuff together and blowing stuff up,

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Speaker 1: and you're just trying to force an artificial separation between them.

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Speaker 1: I think you're I think you're wrong. I think there's

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Speaker 1: a spectrum between right and wrong. Actually, I wonder what

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Speaker 1: the legal authorities say about that. Yeah, you either go

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Speaker 1: to jail or you don't. So that's definitely a quantum distinction.

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Speaker 1: That's either smash things or you explode things, or you

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Speaker 1: can smash things that then explode. But it's just then

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Speaker 1: it's the question. It's not like a quantum superposition. But

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Speaker 1: to continue our argument from the last episode, and that's

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Speaker 1: exactly why we smash stuff, because then then explode and

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Speaker 1: we look at what comes out. So yeah, absolutely, Wait

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Speaker 1: did you say and it explodes? Yeah, protons, we smash

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Speaker 1: them together and then they explode. Oh boy, well, I

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Speaker 1: guess we came to an agreement. It's not the same thing.

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Speaker 1: It happens one after the other. I think it's what

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Speaker 1: you just admitted to. Yes, time flows forward, I do agree,

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Speaker 1: all right. Anyways, we are answering listener questions once again,

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Speaker 1: and there is our twenty eight episode which is amazing,

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Speaker 1: and this one has a theme of annihilation. I guess

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Speaker 1: that's on everyone's mind these days. Yeah, everybody's thinking about

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Speaker 1: blowing stuff up or smashing stuff together or something on

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Speaker 1: the spectrum between them, or something in Europe causing everyone

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Speaker 1: to blow ourselves up. So we have some awesome questions

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Speaker 1: here about electrons annihilating with nuance, about Daniel annihilating I

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Speaker 1: guess his career prospects maybe, and also maybe an alien

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Speaker 1: civilization coming to annihilate us. So some pretty grim and

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Speaker 1: interesting questions. Yeah, so thanks everybody who submitted these. Please

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Speaker 1: don't be shy. If you'd like to submit questions for

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Speaker 1: answering on the podcast, please write to us two questions

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Speaker 1: at Daniel and Jorge dot com, or come join us

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Speaker 1: on the discord, or enjoy my office hours, or write

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Speaker 1: to us on Twitter anyway you like it. We love

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Speaker 1: interacting with our listeners. Okay, so our first question comes

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Speaker 1: from David Smith, and he has a question about um,

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Speaker 1: I guess shaking hands with himself. Hi, Daniel and Jorge.

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Speaker 1: I recently listened to the episode about particles and their

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Speaker 1: anti particles, and I was a little surprised by the

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Speaker 1: statement that Daniel made the generation two particles won't cancel

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Speaker 1: with generation one particles. In other words, you can't have

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Speaker 1: a cancelation or an annihilation between a positron and I'm on.

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Speaker 1: It made me wonder, say, hypothetically, there was a stable

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Speaker 1: object that was made from generation to antimatter, and these

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Speaker 1: objects came into contact with normal matter, would the opposite

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Speaker 1: valence shield charges caused the objects to tend to stick together?

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Speaker 1: If so, how strongly would that attraction be? For example,

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Speaker 1: if I shake my generation to antimatter Doppelganger's hand, would

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Speaker 1: I be able to pull it apart? Afterwards? Thank you?

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Speaker 1: Whoa pretty interesting questionnaire from David. There's a lot to

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Speaker 1: unpack here. I think there's antimatter and also multigenerational particles

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Speaker 1: here to unpack. Yeah, he's responding to a conversation we

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Speaker 1: had about annihilation of matter and antimatter, and we talked

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Speaker 1: about how electrons, for example, can annihilate with their opposite

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Speaker 1: particle depositron to turn into things like photons. That's something

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Speaker 1: people are familiar with. But we commented that a positron can't,

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Speaker 1: for example, annihilate with a mu on, which is like

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Speaker 1: the heavier version of the electron. We called it a

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Speaker 1: second generation particle. Electrons are the first generation, muons are

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Speaker 1: the second generation. And so while an electron can annihilate

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Speaker 1: with a positron, a muon cannot annihilate with a positron. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's take it one step at a time. So an

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Speaker 1: electron has an anti version of itself, called the anti electron,

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Speaker 1: but you guys give it another name. You call it

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Speaker 1: the positron. So apositron is just an anti electron. Most

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Speaker 1: of the antimatter particles we just call anti whatever, But

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Speaker 1: the positron, because it was the first one discovered, got

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Speaker 1: a special name. Okay, So then, and it's the same

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Speaker 1: as the electron, except that has one charge flipped, or

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Speaker 1: all of the charges flipped. I forget, it has all

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Speaker 1: of its gauge charges flipped, and so the weak hypercharge

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Speaker 1: and everything else, all of that is flipped for the

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Speaker 1: positron relative to the electron. Most important is the electromagnetic charge,

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Speaker 1: which goes from minus one to plus one. So the

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Speaker 1: positron has plus one electric charge. Well, there's only three forces, right,

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Speaker 1: so it has three charges flipped, the electro magnetic charge,

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Speaker 1: the strong the color right, and something else right, So

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Speaker 1: it has all of its charges flipped. The electric charge obviously,

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Speaker 1: the electron also feels the weak force, so it has

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Speaker 1: its weak quantum numbers flipped. The electron doesn't feel the

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Speaker 1: strong force. It doesn't have color, and so the opositron

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Speaker 1: also doesn't have color. Okay, so if I take an

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Speaker 1: electron and I mash it up with an anti electron,

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Speaker 1: it annihilates, right, it turns into like pure energy, meaning

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Speaker 1: like photons. Yeah, it can turn into a photonic actually

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Speaker 1: also turned into something like a z boson. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: the point is that that electrons matter no longer exists.

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Speaker 1: It's not like you've taken the components of the electron

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Speaker 1: and de positron and you've rearranged them like some sort

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Speaker 1: of chemical reaction where you move atoms from one place

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Speaker 1: to another. The matter that made up the electron and

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Speaker 1: the postron does not exist anymore in the universe. It's

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Speaker 1: converted into a photon, which has no mass. And also

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Speaker 1: there's the idea that particles have sort of heavier versions

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Speaker 1: or cousin for generations. So the electron has an heavier

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Speaker 1: kind of twin version of itself, right called the muan,

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Speaker 1: which is exactly the same same charges as the electron,

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Speaker 1: just more mass. Yeah, and this is something we don't

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Speaker 1: understand why these particles exist. But you see, there are

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Speaker 1: all these symmetries and reflections in particle physics. You know,

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Speaker 1: one is like a particle has an antiparticle, and now

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a different sort of direction in which

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Speaker 1: particles have reflections of themselves. So every particle has a

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Speaker 1: heavy version of itself. The electron has the heavy version,

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Speaker 1: the muan. Even the corks have heavier versions. So there

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Speaker 1: are three of these generations, generation one, two, and three.

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Speaker 1: The electron is the first generation, muan is in the

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Speaker 1: second generation, and then the even heavier version is called

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Speaker 1: the tow. Al Right, well, I guess the mystery then

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Speaker 1: is that because I think, you know, the electron smashes

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Speaker 1: with the positron because they have opposite charges, and so

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Speaker 1: they can attract each other and so they get really

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Speaker 1: close to each other, and that's when they annihilate. Wouldn't

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Speaker 1: the same thing happen if like an electron met with

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Speaker 1: its anti heavier cousin, whenn't they have the opposite charge

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Speaker 1: and still attract each other. That's exactly what Dave's asking,

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Speaker 1: and you would expect that that might work because it

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Speaker 1: does satisfy the principle that they have the opposite charges.

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Speaker 1: But to David's surprise, that's not allowed in particle physics.

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Speaker 1: A muon and a positron cannot turn into a photon

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Speaker 1: because while that does respect conservation of charge, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: respect all of the rules of particle physics, and there's

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Speaker 1: kind of a lot of them. Oh yeah, what are

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Speaker 1: these rules? One of the rules, of course, is conservation

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Speaker 1: of charge, And so just stepping through the reaction here,

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Speaker 1: you start out with like a muan which is minus

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Speaker 1: one charge, and a positron which is plus one charge.

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Speaker 1: So that adds up to zero total charge. So there's

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Speaker 1: no problem then turning that into a photon because the

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Speaker 1: photon also has zero total charge, so you've conserved the charge.

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Speaker 1: That's cool. But there's another rule, and that rule is

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Speaker 1: that you have to conserve the number of electrons, Like

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Speaker 1: electrons cannot just be created and destroyed willing nearly. You

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Speaker 1: can't change the number of electrons in the universe. That's

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Speaker 1: one of the rules. So somehow like the number of

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Speaker 1: electrons in the universe has to be the same, that's right,

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Speaker 1: And that seems weird because like, hold on a second,

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Speaker 1: what happens when you annihilate an electron an oppositron? Aren't

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Speaker 1: you destroying an electron? Yes, But the reason that works

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Speaker 1: is that positrons count as negative one electrons. So in

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Speaker 1: that reaction, the number of electrons is plus one from

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Speaker 1: the electron minus one from the positron, so in total

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Speaker 1: zero electrons, and then when you make the photon, you

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Speaker 1: still have zero electrons. The problem when you try to

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Speaker 1: do the muon in positron reaction is that that reaction

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Speaker 1: starts out with minus one electrons from the positron and

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Speaker 1: ends up with zero electrons because you just have a photon.

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Speaker 1: So it violates this rule. You have to have the

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Speaker 1: same number of total electron, right. But I think maybe

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Speaker 1: what's probably confusing to David is that a muon is

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Speaker 1: pretty much it's it's it is like an electron, right,

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Speaker 1: it's like an heavier electron. So why can it count

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Speaker 1: as like a plus two you know what I mean? Like,

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Speaker 1: why going to be or count as as an electron

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Speaker 1: just with extra energy. The answer is, we don't know.

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Speaker 1: This is what we observe for some reason, there's an

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Speaker 1: important difference to the universe between electrons and muans. That's

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Speaker 1: basically what makes a muan a muon and not just

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Speaker 1: an electron with more mass. This is the muan no

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Speaker 1: of the muan because the universe doesn't just count the

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Speaker 1: number of electrons, and it's a separate count for the

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Speaker 1: number of muans, and the same rule applies there. You

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Speaker 1: can't just create and destroy muans willy nilly. So the

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Speaker 1: answer is, we don't know why this seems to be important,

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Speaker 1: but we think it's a clue. You know, in particle

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Speaker 1: physics all the time we're looking for things that are conserved,

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Speaker 1: what are the rules of the universe follows, and then

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Speaker 1: try to back that out to figure out what that

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Speaker 1: means about the nature of matter. In this case, we

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Speaker 1: don't yet know. M Well, I feel like you're telling

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Speaker 1: me that an electron can't annihilate with an anti muon

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Speaker 1: because we've never observed it. Kind of right, But have

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Speaker 1: you actually like looked, You're right, we have never observed it,

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Speaker 1: but we are looking very very carefully, and there are

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Speaker 1: dedicated experiments look just for this. They shoot a bunch

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Speaker 1: of muans and electrons, or equivalently, they look to see

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Speaker 1: if muans can decay directly to electrons without producing any neutrinos.

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Speaker 1: And so these are very careful, very high precision experiments,

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Speaker 1: and nobody has ever seen this kind of reaction. So

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Speaker 1: the azer could still be yes, that an electron could

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Speaker 1: annihilate with an anti muan. Maybe that's right. The answer

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Speaker 1: could be yes, it might be possible for it to happen.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, there is a little wrinkle here, which

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Speaker 1: is that neutrinos count in the sort of number of

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Speaker 1: electrons and number of muans category. For example, an electron

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Speaker 1: neutrino counts in the electron category, which is why for example,

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Speaker 1: like a W can decay into an electron and a neutrino.

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Speaker 1: Which really interesting is that we have seen neutrinos violate

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Speaker 1: this rule. We've see neutrinos change from muon neutrinos to

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Speaker 1: electron neutrinos or town neutrinos, so we know this rule

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Speaker 1: is very very strong, but not a hundred percent absolute.

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Speaker 1: We know neutrinos break this rule. We've never seen electrons

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Speaker 1: and muons break it, but we suspect that it might

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Speaker 1: be breakable. Wait, what do you mean that neutrinos break it?

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Speaker 1: How do they break it? Well, we have this rule

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Speaker 1: that you can't just change the number of electrons in

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Speaker 1: the universe, so we can't just change the number of

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Speaker 1: muans in the universe. Neutrinos count in those same categories.

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Speaker 1: That's what it means to say we have three different

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Speaker 1: kinds of neutrino. It's an electron neutrino, muon neutrino tow neutrino, right,

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Speaker 1: And we do the same kind of accounting for neutrinos

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Speaker 1: as we do for electrons and for muons, So we

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Speaker 1: don't see muans decay to electrons. We don't see muans

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Speaker 1: annihilate with anti electrons, but we do see neutrinos jump

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Speaker 1: from generation to generation. You can have a muon neutrino

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Speaker 1: which then just changes its flavor to an electron neutrino

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Speaker 1: as it flies through space, which seems to break this

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Speaker 1: rule that the number of electrons the number muans can't change.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's confusing because you're saying the heavier neutrinos

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Speaker 1: called the electron neutrino. Well, we don't know what the

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Speaker 1: masses of these particles are. But there's a first generation neutrino,

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Speaker 1: which is the electron neutrino, and a second generation neutrino,

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Speaker 1: which is the muon neutrino, and a third generation neutrino,

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Speaker 1: which is the town neutrino. We don't yet know exactly

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Speaker 1: what the masses of those neutrinos are, and if they

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Speaker 1: follow the rule that the first generation is lightest and

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Speaker 1: the third generation is heaviest, we don't yet know. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I see, But do you know that the neutrina jumps

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Speaker 1: between generations, So maybe that's not a hard and fast

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Speaker 1: rule for everybody exactly. In fact, that sort of proves

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Speaker 1: that this rule is not like deep and fundamental to

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Speaker 1: the universe like it almost is. Even neutrino oscillation is

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Speaker 1: pretty rare. So it's something the universe likes to do

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Speaker 1: to keep these categories and to keep these numbers in balance,

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Speaker 1: but it's not absolute. The way. For example, conservation of

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Speaker 1: momentum is or conservation of electric charge seems to be absolute.

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Speaker 1: We've never seen any violation of conservation of electric charge.

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Speaker 1: All right. Well, to get back to David's question then,

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Speaker 1: is what would happen if he met a version of

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Speaker 1: himself but where all the electrons are somehow made up

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Speaker 1: of heavier electrons? Muans would be like a heavier version

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Speaker 1: of him, but also an anti wait, an anti hea

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Speaker 1: your version of him. That's a lot of caveats there.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, you can make atoms out of anti particles, right,

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Speaker 1: and you can also maybe make them out of the

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Speaker 1: heavier particles. So what would happen if you met an

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Speaker 1: anti heavier version of you? It's a super awesome question,

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Speaker 1: and I love that you thought about this. My first

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Speaker 1: concern though, if we're being like hyper realistic about this,

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Speaker 1: is that second generation matter like Muan's is not stable.

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Speaker 1: An electron can last forever, can orbit the nucleus and

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Speaker 1: be here for billions of years, but a muan is heavy,

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Speaker 1: and heavy particles like the decay. So a muan will

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Speaker 1: decay into a new trino and a w which then

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Speaker 1: turns into an electron and another neutrino, and so neutrinos

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Speaker 1: only last for micro seconds. So the muonic version of

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Speaker 1: you is going to very quickly decay to the electronic

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Speaker 1: version of you plus a bunch of Innerget do you

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Speaker 1: get to say hi really quick? Okay? So let's imagine

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Speaker 1: that you say hi super quick, you high five the

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Speaker 1: anti muon version of you in a fraction of a second. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be the typical annially aation you

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Speaker 1: expect from like high fiving the antimatter version of you

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Speaker 1: is just like hitting another kind of matter, except that

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Speaker 1: the anti muon version of you does also have the

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Speaker 1: opposite electric charge. Now, when you and I high five,

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Speaker 1: are hands bounce off each other because the atoms repel

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Speaker 1: each other, And part of that is because we both

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Speaker 1: have electrons with negative electric charge, and electrons repel other electrons.

404
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Speaker 1: But if the anti atoms have negative nuclei and positive

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Speaker 1: mulans in their outer orbits, would they stick to would

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Speaker 1: they attract the negative electrons in our hands? Honestly, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure, but I doubt it. The whole atom is

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Speaker 1: overall electrically neutral, and so if it's not the negative

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Speaker 1: electron repelling them, then it's going to be the negative

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Speaker 1: nucleus that can also repel. So basically nothing would happen.

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Speaker 1: You would hi high five your anti heavier version of you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think the anti MU and you could successfully high

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Speaker 1: five view in the brief microseconds that they exist. Well, again,

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Speaker 1: that's maybe right, Like, it's possible they could an island.

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Speaker 1: You haven't observed that, right, That's right, it's possible they

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Speaker 1: could annihilate. But if they do, it would be at

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Speaker 1: a very low level. You know, like one in ten

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Speaker 1: of the forty anti mues might annihilate with your electrons,

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Speaker 1: So that's pretty small. But a tiny fraction of you

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Speaker 1: might go up and smoke. Well, no, a tiny fraction

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Speaker 1: of the anti MU and stuff would annihiliate. But maybe

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Speaker 1: all of you would annihilated, right, because you're in the minority.

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Speaker 1: How are you in the minority? Is and there one

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Speaker 1: of you and one anti mw on you. Well, the

425
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: anti mew on you version is much heavier, that's true,

426
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: But that doesn't matter. It's still it's a particle to

427
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 1: particle annihilation. It's heavier particles and lighter particles can come

428
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:47,439
Speaker 1: together and annihilate. All right, So um, some fracing of

429
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 1: you would might annihilate. Maybe in either case, maybe just

430
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 1: don't try it. That would be the safest thing asked

431
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: this person. How did you end up being so muonic?

432
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 1: That would be a fascinating question to answer. Well, you

433
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 1: only have a freak in of a second to ask them, Daniel,

434
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 1: are you gonna waste the tie fiving your anti muon

435
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: self or asking them boring physics questions? Maybe we should

436
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: ask them the difference between smashing stuff and blowing stuff up. Well,

437
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: they would probably just take the anti position. It would

438
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: be fruitless discussion. Alright, Well, I think that answers david question,

439
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: and so let's get into our two other awesome questions

440
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 1: about annihilation. But first let's take a quick break. All right,

441
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: we are answering listener questions here. Today we answered a

442
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: great one about anti muans and meeting your anti muan self.

443
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: Now we have a question here from Bob who has

444
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: a kind of a personal question for Daniel. Hi, Daniel,

445
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: my name is Bob. I'm a longtime fan of your podcast.

446
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: On occasion, you interview other scientists about their work, but

447
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: I and other fans were in the dark about your research.

448
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: Would you consider doing a podcast to talk about your

449
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: major research. You could be the guest speaker in horror

450
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: could interview. I could try to read your research, but

451
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: for sure that's a lost cause for us listeners. You

452
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 1: could bring your ideas and findings to a layman's level,

453
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 1: like you always do. I think that would be informative

454
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: and a lot of fun, and I hope you think

455
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: so too. All Right, you got some fans out there, Daniel.

456
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: At least somebody's trying to read my papers, even if

457
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: they can't. Will you write a lot of papers, right,

458
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: like ten or twenty a year or something? Yeah, it

459
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: varies a little bit, but my research group and I

460
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: we put out like ten or twenty papers every year. Yeah, yeah,

461
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: to be hard to keep up. I guess it's a

462
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: lot of fun. I have a group of like eight

463
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: grad students and a few post docs and some undergrad researchers,

464
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: and to collaborate with lots of really fun and smart

465
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: people around the world. So I have a good time

466
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: thinking about these questions about the universe and how to

467
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: use clever techniques to try to make crazy discoveries or

468
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: use artificial intelligence to try to help us sort through

469
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: these crazy data that we collect. Well, break it down

470
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: for us, I guess, Daniel, because I know you'd do

471
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: some machine learning, and you also do some dark matter

472
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: stuff and also some particle physics stuff. Maybe UM step

473
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: us through from the beginning, like what did you do

474
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: for your thesis? That's an interesting question. When I was

475
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: a grad student in the late nineties, the most exciting

476
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: thing in particle physics was the top cork because we

477
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: had just discovered it. We'd seen the top cork after

478
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: twenty years of looking for it. Remember, they had built

479
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: like two different accelerators specifically aimed as finding the top cork,

480
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: neither of which found it because it was so much

481
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: heavier than they expected. So it's finally discovered at Firmy

482
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: Lab in ninety. So when I started particle physics a

483
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: few years later, the name of the game was understand

484
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: this particle, measure its properties, and see is it the

485
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: top cork that we expected or is it something new

486
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: and weird. So for my PhD, I looked at some

487
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: particular decays of the top cork when it turns into

488
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: lighter particles and tried to understand if it was looking

489
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: the way that we expected it to look. So you're

490
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: getting your degree atly, but you were working in Chicago. Yeah,

491
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: in particle physics. You're a nomad. You just follow the

492
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 1: biggest accelerated around. So I spent two years taking classes

493
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: at Berkeley, and then I shipped out to Chicago to

494
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: do my research at the accelerator and the top cork.

495
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: How do you make a top cork? Yes, smashed two

496
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: protons together and they blow up, you know. At the tabotron,

497
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: we smashed protons and anti protons together and they come

498
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: together with a lot of energy, and sometimes they annihilate

499
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: into gluons. And then those gluons can make a pair

500
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: of top corks, a top cork and an anti top cork.

501
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: And then just so you measured like the remains of

502
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: the annihilation, and then what did I tell you about

503
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: the top cork? So we measured how often the top

504
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: cork was made, and then we calculated how often did

505
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: we expect it to be made, like how likely is

506
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: that process to happen? How often do you expect to

507
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: get top quarks? And what we found is that it's

508
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: made exactly the level that we expected, which is why

509
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: I didn't win a Nobel prize for my people. It

510
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: wasn't the top cork, the one that people that it

511
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: was like heavier than people expected or something or not

512
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: as heavy as people expected. Were you part of that

513
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: or was that before you? That was just before my time.

514
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 1: The theorists predicted that the top cork would be like

515
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: about as heavy as the bottom cork, which is like

516
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: five protons in weight. So they built a collider in

517
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: Japan just to look for that and didn't see it.

518
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: So then they thought maybe they would discover it at CERN,

519
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 1: and they didn't see it there. So finally the tabatron

520
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: in Fermulab they did see it, and it came out

521
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: to be about a hundred and seventy five times the

522
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 1: mass the proton. So the theorists were way off in

523
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: their initial predictions. And so the advice there, the lesson

524
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: learned is don't listen to the theorists. Just go out

525
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: there and look for stuff and you'll find surprises, right right. Well,

526
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: but you went looking for stuff and and just kind

527
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: of confirm what they had found before. Was that enough

528
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 1: for a thesis or did you have to come up

529
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: with something like a new idea. It's a great question

530
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: you ask, and it really goes to the heart of

531
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: something of a conflict within particle physics. A lot of

532
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: folks who are doing research these days are answering questions

533
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: posed by theory risks. Theorist say, I think the top

534
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: cork would be produced at this level, go and check,

535
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: and then experimentalists go and check. And you might ask,

536
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: is that enough for a thesis? Well, you know, it's

537
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: a lot of work to get an accelerator to run,

538
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: and to build a detector to capture these collisions, and

539
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: to make that detector work and calibrate it and analyze

540
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: the data and do all the statistics. It's definitely a

541
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: thesis level work. But I think that there's something else

542
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 1: that experimentalists could do, which is not just look for

543
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: the things that the theorists predict, but go out and

544
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: see if there's something else out there that they didn't predict.

545
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: Actually be explores the sort of a pendulum in the

546
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: field which swings between the theory leading the field and

547
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: the experiments leading the field. And right now, I think

548
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: the theory is leading the field because they have big

549
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: ideas about what we should look for, and I'd like

550
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: the experiments to lead the field a little bit more.

551
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: I'd like us to be sort of exploration driven. Well,

552
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of hard though, write, because in

553
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: particle physics, I mean, there's so much stuff that comes

554
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: out of these collisions. You sort of need a theoretical

555
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: basis just to kind of make sense ort to find

556
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: things in these and all that data, right, Like you

557
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: have to look for deviations. You can just look for

558
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: like random things. That's right, because there's so much data.

559
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: If you just look for something weird, you're guaranteed to

560
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 1: find it. And so you do have to be a

561
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: little bit careful about how you phrase the question. And

562
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: so you can't just look for like is there something strange?

563
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: You have to think about what kind of strange thing

564
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: could we discover, you know, and you have to put

565
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: a little bit of a box around the kind of

566
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: things that you're looking for. And the useful analogy is like,

567
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: say you land on an alien planet and you're looking

568
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: for life. What kind of things are you going to

569
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: look for? Are you only going to look for cats

570
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: and dogs and roses? You're pretty sure not going to

571
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: find that. So you've got to broaden it a little

572
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,239
Speaker 1: bit and think about, well, what kinds of life am

573
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: I looking for? What are the essential signatures that I'm

574
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: searching for? And so in the particle physics context. What

575
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: my group is trying to do is think about what

576
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: are the kinds of discoveries that we could make that

577
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: maybe wouldn't be anticipated, and what are the things that

578
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: we're not looking for that but that we could discover

579
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: and would pretty clearly be a new particle. That was

580
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: the question we asked about ten years ago when we

581
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: started working on this project. So I guess you did

582
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: that for your thesis. Do you remember the title of

583
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: your thesis. The title of my thesis was something really

584
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: boring like measurement of the production of the top cork

585
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 1: in the EMU channel or something like that. He sounds excited. Well,

586
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was awesome, um and would make great reading.

587
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: And you did a post dog, and did you also

588
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: work on that for your post doc? For my post doc,

589
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: I doubled down on that exactly, and I measured the

590
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: mass of the top cork using a fancy new statistical technique,

591
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: and we've got the most precise measurement of the top

592
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: cork mass in that kind of data that anybody had

593
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: ever had before, which is a lot of fun. And

594
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: you know, as a post doc you have to sort

595
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: of like take one swing and hit a home run.

596
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: You have like three years to demonstrate that you're a

597
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: good young scientist with smart ideas and you can turn

598
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: those ideas and your energy into science. So you can't

599
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: take like a risk that's going to take ten years

600
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: to develop. You have to do something that you know

601
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: how to do and they will immediately pay benefits so

602
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: you can get the faculty job right right, which you did?

603
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: You went to UC Irvine And then did you switch

604
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,479
Speaker 1: focus that? Did you sort of continue detract, because then

605
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: that's when you join the LHC. Right you switch from

606
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: Fermi Lab to the LHC and they were doing other things.

607
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: Did you also have to switch from the top cork

608
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: to other things? I did. I moved away from the

609
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: top cork because I wanted to not just study the

610
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: things that the theories were predicting. I wanted to go

611
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: out there and find new stuff that wasn't being looked for.

612
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: I figured that was the exciting thing about the large

613
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: hage On collider. You had new high energy collisions that

614
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: nobody had ever seen before, and so when you turn

615
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: that thing on, all sorts of crazy stuff could come out,

616
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: and it could be what the theories predicted. But I

617
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: felt like more likely the discoveries would be something that

618
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: they hadn't even thought of, something crazy, something unanticipated. And

619
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: that was my scientific fantasies to discover something weird and

620
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: new that made everybody go, huh, that can't be right,

621
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: mm hmmm. And so maybe talk to me about this

622
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: idea about like, how do you look for things that

623
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: you don't know are there? Because you know there's some

624
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: data coming out and so many different kinds of explosions,

625
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: you sort of need to know what you're looking for

626
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: so that you can look for deviations. That's kind of

627
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: how particle physics usually works. How do you even look

628
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: for things that you don't know are there? You're right,

629
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: you need to know what to look for, but our

630
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: idea was that you only need to know sort of

631
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: the category of things to look for, and the kind

632
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: of things you should look for are the kind of

633
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: things that you're good at seeing. And so the large

634
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: hadron collider is really good at seeing heavy particles that

635
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: then decay into lighter particles. For example, the top cork

636
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: is a heavy particle and it decays into electrons and

637
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: muans and corks, all of which we can see and

638
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: when we measure those particles and put them together, we

639
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: can see, oh, there was a heavy particle that was made.

640
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: It shows up as like a spike in your data.

641
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: So all you need to do then is look for

642
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: heavy particles decaying into lighter particles in ways you didn't expect.

643
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: There are some people out there who predicted heavy particles

644
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: decaying into pairs of electrons or pairs of muans, for example,

645
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: and people are looking for those, and those are good ideas,

646
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: But I thought, what about heavy particles decaying you two

647
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,719
Speaker 1: weird pairs of objects? Like what about a heavy particle

648
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: decaying into a Higgs and an electron or something weird

649
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: like that. Why aren't we looking for those things? Because

650
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: we'd be good at finding them, and if we looked

651
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: in our data, they would be pretty obvious. Right, But

652
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: you still need some theory behind them, right, Like you

653
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: have to have a theory that says how often you

654
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: should expect to see those kinds of weird things, or

655
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: what are you thinking about, like totally unexpected, not even

656
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: in the theory things. I was thinking, totally unexpected, not

657
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: even theoretically anticipated. Actually took this idea to a theorist

658
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: at you see Santa Barbara, and I said, what do

659
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: you think about looking for these and he said, it's impossible.

660
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: You will never find these things. I have three reasons

661
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: why quantum Mechanically, it's impossible for that particle to ever

662
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,479
Speaker 1: be made. And I thought, well, that's cool, because then

663
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: I could discover it. I'm gonna also blow up quantum gas.

664
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: That's kind of that's kind of risky, Daniel, though, isn't it.

665
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: It's like I think unicorns exist. I'm going to spend

666
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: the rest of my life looking for unicorns, even though

667
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: people tell you some possible and then you might not

668
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: find it. Yeah, but you want to take a little

669
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,959
Speaker 1: bit of risk with your science career. And one thing

670
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: that motivates me is that we know so little about

671
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: the universe. We know there are big surprises out there,

672
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: and we're scratching our heads about how the universe works.

673
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: It's going to take somebody thinking outside the box to

674
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: stumble into something new and interesting. And you know, I

675
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: saw that same theorist a week later at a different

676
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: conference and he said, you know, I was thinking about

677
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: that idea of yours, and actually I now have five

678
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: different theories that could all predict that particle, so you

679
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: should go ahead and look for it. And the lesson

680
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: I took from that is the reason nobody's predicting these

681
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: weird particles is not because they don't think they exist.

682
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: It's because they just haven't bothered to think about them.

683
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: Because you know, the theory community, they're all very smart,

684
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: but they tend to sort of follow a certain mainstream

685
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: and all sort of think in the same direction. And

686
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: so I think that experimentalists have this job, this opportunity

687
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: to think outside the box and you know, be open

688
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: to the universe's surprises by looking for stuff that maybe

689
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: other people think is weird. So that's something you're doing

690
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: right now. It's looking for the is unicorns? Yeah, absolutely, yeah,

691
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: we are looking for unicorns. My plan for the next

692
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: twenty years is to one by one look for these things,

693
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: because then either you'll find them and you say, wow,

694
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: look I found this thing nobody expected decaying into this

695
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: weird pair of particles, or at least you'll rule them

696
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: out and you can say conclusively, like there are no

697
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: weird resonances produced at the LHC. Even that negative statement

698
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: is some knowledge about the universe. Well, well, I hope

699
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: you find that unicorn. Uh. And also one thing that's

700
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: interesting about your research is you use machine learning or AI. Yeah,

701
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: my background actually is in physics and computer science as

702
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: an undergrad really interested in machine learning and artificial intelligence.

703
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: My brother is a professor of artificial intelligence, so it's

704
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: something I've really been interested for a long time. And

705
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: we have a lot of data that's produced by our colliders.

706
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: It's like head of bytes of data every day, and

707
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: every collision we get like hundreds of millions of pieces

708
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: of information. And the way you can tell the difference

709
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: between like, oh, this was a unicorn or was not

710
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 1: a unicorn is sometimes very subtle core relations between those measurements.

711
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: And artificial intelligence is very good at handling very high

712
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: dimensional data and summarizing for you, boiling down the crucial information,

713
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: helping you make decisions right. It's also good at making

714
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 1: fake tom cruizes for TikTok videos, which is which bullows

715
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: my mind. But you're saying you can actually use AI

716
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: to kind of replace physicists almost to analyze the data

717
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: from coliders. Almost ten years ago now, I went over

718
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: to the computer science department here at UC Irvine and

719
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: I said, our networks are kind of dumb. We were

720
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: using neural networks already, but they weren't very smart. We

721
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: found that if you gave the same problem to a physicist,

722
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: they could usually do better at finding new particles or

723
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: understanding what was going on, and so they took on

724
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: the challenge and they said, well, your networks just aren't

725
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 1: deep enough. And at the time, there was this revolution

726
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: in neural networks people have probably heard about called deep learning,

727
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 1: where basically you just make your networks have more layers

728
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: so they can learn more complex functions. And they had

729
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: deeper networks, and their networks were actually smarter than our physicists,

730
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: so they did a better job than we were doing

731
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: at pulling this information out of our data. And that

732
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: was kind of a big breakthrough in particle physics. People

733
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: realized that we should be using deep learning because these

734
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 1: colliders are expensive. It caused billions of dollars to collect

735
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: this data, so we might as well get as much

736
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: as we can out of it. Well, you actually feed

737
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: it like the raw data from the collider, or the

738
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 1: post filtered data, or just just like the numbers that

739
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: a physicists would look at. So these networks can't handle

740
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: like the actual ocean of raw data, like drinking straight

741
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: from the fire hose. But what we were able to

742
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: do was give them sort of more raw data than

743
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: the physicists usually take, like at a lower level, higher

744
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: dimensionality than physicists usually analyze, and they were able to

745
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: reverse engineer a lot of the quantities the physicists used

746
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: to analyze these things. What do you mean, like can

747
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: detect the Higgs boson from the data for for the

748
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: Higgs boson discovery without saying, hey, here's the calculation you

749
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: should do on these photons. You just sort of give

750
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: it all the information from the event and it figures out.

751
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: It learned how to scriminate between higgs bosons and non

752
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: higgs bosons, and if you peer inside a little bit,

753
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: you can sort of tell what it's doing. And it's

754
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: found a lot of the same kinds of calculations that

755
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: physicists do when they think about these problems, right right,

756
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: And the advantages. It doesn't drink as much coffee as

757
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: a post and it works all night. You can enslave

758
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: it until enslaves you then. But one of the challenges,

759
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: of course, is understanding what it's doing. There's lots of

760
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: examples of neural networks being trained to solve the problem,

761
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: and then it turns out it's solving it not exactly

762
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: in the way you expected. You may have heard about

763
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: this case when they trained a neural network to tell

764
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: the difference between wolves and dogs from pictures, and they

765
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: did really, really well. But then they discovered that what

766
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: it was actually learning was that the pictures of wolves

767
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: had snow in the background and the pictures of dogs

768
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: had grass in the background. So if there was snow

769
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 1: in the background, they called it a wolf. And that's

770
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: not exactly very interesting, right there, doesn't tell you anything

771
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: about the difference between dogs and wolves. So we're trying

772
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: to understand what our networks are doing to make sure

773
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: that what it's learning is really physics, is not just

774
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: some nonsense about the data, like whether it was snowing

775
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: that day. All right, pretty interesting. It sounds like you're

776
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: gonna put out a lot of physicists who don't yet

777
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: have tenure out of a job. Maybe I collaborate with

778
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: a lot of young physicists. They're great folks, lots of

779
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: really fun ideas, and I have a good time. He

780
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: totally just avoided that comment. Al Right, Well, hopefully that

781
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: explains what you do for your your research, Canuel, and

782
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: I guess if people want to find out more, do

783
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: you have anything like do you write this up anywhere

784
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: and then a more accessible way or is it all

785
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: just scientific papers? I guess One thing I find is

786
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: you can usually read the introduction to papers, and that

787
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: usually get and the conclusion, and that gives you a

788
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 1: pretty decent overview of things. But the having to get

789
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: into the nitty gritty is that how you read papers?

790
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: For hey, are we now learning you never actually read papers,

791
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: You just read the abstracts. It depends, right, Like, if

792
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: I just need to know what's going on, I'm not

793
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: gonna read all the details. I'm taking that as a yes. No,

794
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 1: I haven't written anything acessible at this level about my research.

795
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: It's mostly heavy duty science writing and then this kind

796
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 1: of accessible writing, but I haven't really bridged that gap. Well,

797
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: as as you said earlier, you have office hours and

798
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 1: you can actually talk to Daniel in our discord channel,

799
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: so um go ask him questions if you want to

800
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: know the difference between a wolf and talk. I guess, well,

801
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: thanks Bob for asking about my research. I appreciate it.

802
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to our last question here, and

803
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: this one is a it's a doozy. It's about aliens

804
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: and multidimensional weapons. So let's get into that. But first

805
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: let's take another quick break. All right. We are answering

806
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: listener questions here, and they all seem to have a

807
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: theme of annihilation, like blowing things up or blowing Daniel's

808
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: career up. I guess, yeah, how did you? Why did

809
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: you love the one about you? In this annihilation theme?

810
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: Because that is my job. I'm annihilating per Dawns all

811
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: the time. All I see, you're not annihilating young researchers

812
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: career by inventing AI that does the job now, facilitating

813
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: their careers, right, giving them any tools to do the

814
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: job better, giving them more naptime. Right. Well, we have

815
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: one more question here for today, and this one is

816
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: pretty interesting and it comes from Chris from Chicago. Hi,

817
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge, thanks for taking my question. It concerns

818
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: a scenario in the book Death's End, which is the

819
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: final book and the Three Body Problem trilogy. In this book,

820
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: it's noted that supremely advanced civilizations used dimensional weapons against

821
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: potential threats in the universe to eradicate them meaning that

822
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: in the beginning of the universe, it started out as

823
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: an eleven dimensional universe, but over time, civilizations that were

824
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: able to make themselves into lower and lower dimensional beings

825
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: used a weapon to drop a dimensional bomb on a

826
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: particular part of space to effectively end their existence. It

827
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: would be akin to someone setting off a two dimensional

828
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: bomb in our aero space and then from the point

829
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: of the explosion, three D space collapsed into two D

830
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: space infinitely from the point of origin. So my question is,

831
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: couldn't advanced civilization as described in this scenario use a

832
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: weapon that sets off a quote unquote lower dimensional bomb

833
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 1: to collapse dimensional space time to the next lowest dimension.

834
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: Thanks for making science accessible and helping me and my

835
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: kids understand and explore the universe. Cool. Thank you, Chris.

836
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: Great question, and it's awesome he listens with the kids. Yeah, exactly.

837
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: I wonder if he reads books called The Death's End

838
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: with his kids. Also, Uh, that's then it's actually a

839
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: positive thing, isn't it. M Yeah, I suppose the end

840
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: of death life's the beginning. There's lots of alien invasion

841
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: and catastrophe for humanity in this book, though, M. Well,

842
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: you just described most Marvel movies. Um so, and people

843
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: let their kids watch that all the time. So it

844
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: sounds like we've moved past that point to you. Welcome

845
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 1: to the parenting podcast. You do not listen to parenting

846
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: advice from a cartoonis center physicist. But anyway, so his question,

847
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: I guess is there that there's a scenario in this book,

848
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: in the third book of this famous and best selling

849
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,479
Speaker 1: trilogy of science fiction books. And what's the trilogy called.

850
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: The first book in this series is called The Three

851
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: Body Problem. I think it's called like the Three Body Trilogy, right,

852
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: or that's what they called it. You're right. The whole

853
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: series is sort of called the Three Body Problem trilogy.

854
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 1: This is three books, The Three Body Problem, The Dark Forest,

855
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: and then Death's End and Death's End is the last one. Wow,

856
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: cheery titles. Yeah, so they're super best sellers, and they

857
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: were translated into English by Ken Lu who is also

858
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: an excellent award winning science fiction writer and hugely popular.

859
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: I've heard them described as Chinese star Wars. WHOA, I

860
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: don't know if that's a good and where this crib

861
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: things are not well in the sense of, like, you know,

862
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: the cultural impact. I think I mean if you wrote

863
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: something and they described it as the new Star Wars,

864
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: I think you'd be pretty happy about that. Interesting. Well,

865
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: so in this I guess in the third chapter of

866
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: the of this trilogy, at death end, there's something that

867
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: happens with aliens, like they try to kill us, I guess.

868
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: So the first book sets this up because we discover

869
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: distant aliens that live around this world that has multiple suns,

870
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: and that's why it's called the three body problem. And

871
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: then the next two books are all about how you

872
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: deal with aliens and aliens attacking. And we actually did

873
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 1: an episode recently about this idea of the Dark Forest

874
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: that maybe the universe is filled with dangerous civilizations and

875
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: it's not a good idea to get in touch with

876
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: folks because then they'll try to come and kill you.

877
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: So Death's end is the fly max and that's when

878
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: like the aliens come and they invade in. Our solar

879
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: system is attacked, and then that's where the lightsabers come in.

880
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: Or these are Chinese lightsabers. So I don't know how

881
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: that translates. Fireworks. Maybe their fireworks, that's right, yes, they're

882
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: light fireworks. But then somehow the concept here is about multidimensionality.

883
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: So you mentioned in this question that in this universe

884
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: of the book, I guess we know that the universe

885
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: started with more dimensions and slowly they've been collapsing or

886
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: what the idea in this book is that they have

887
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 1: some weapon which can collapse space from a certain number

888
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: of dimensions to one fewer. So you take space that's

889
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: three dimensional like our space, and you collapse it to

890
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: two dimensions. So things that have to live like on

891
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: a surface instead of living in a volume. And the

892
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: idea in the book would be that this would be

893
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: an effective weapon because you're smashing anything that used to

894
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: be in three D. You're smashing it now down to

895
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: two D, which makes it pretty hard to survive. And

896
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 1: so in the long arc of the history in this book,

897
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: the universe started out like ten dimensional and there were

898
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: these beings that were fighting each other, and one way

899
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 1: they would fight is that they would make themselves nine

900
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 1: dimensional and then would collapse the universe from ten dimensions

901
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: down to nine before their enemies could adapt, then crushing

902
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: their enemies. Wow, that sounds like the most complicated way

903
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: to to way to war here. But I guess maybe

904
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: a step us through a little bit what a dimension is.

905
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: I guess a lot of as we talked about in

906
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: our books, a lot of people when we think of

907
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: dimension is like another realm or like a doorway into

908
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: something else. But really physicists just think of it as

909
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: another way to move. Yeah, dimension has been co opted

910
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: to mean like a parallel universe or another realm or

911
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: something like that. It's not another place, it's an aspect

912
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: of our universe. You say, it's a way that we

913
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: can move. So, our space, we think, has three spatial dimensions,

914
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: which means you can move in three different directions like up, down, forward, backward,

915
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: and left and right. Those are three different dimensions. And

916
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: if space was four dimensional, there would be like another

917
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: direction that was perpendicular to all three of those, right,

918
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: it didn't overlap. That was like a unique way that

919
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: you could move. Our space, we think, is three dimensional.

920
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: Plus then there's the one dimension of time, which people

921
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: sometimes fold together into space time. But that's what a

922
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: dimension is, right, And actually string theory things that there

923
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: are maybe dozens or if not hundreds of dimensions that

924
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: but they're just so small we can yell them or

925
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: see them. Yeah, lots of theories of physics make more

926
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: sense if space has additional dimensions more than the three

927
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: that we can see. And some string theories like eleven dimensions,

928
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 1: some twenty six their arbitrary number dimensions in other theories,

929
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: they're all there because the math makes more sense in

930
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 1: those dimensions, not because we have any evidence in our

931
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: universe that those dimensions exist, but just as you're putting

932
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: the theory together, it works better if space has more dimensions. Right,

933
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: So then um, in this book, UM, I guess there

934
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: are many, or there were many other dimensions, but they're

935
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: not small. I guess they're assuming that in these other

936
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: dimensions in the book they weren't like smaller little loops.

937
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: There were like actual other directions you can move around

938
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: in and grow in. D N. You know, when theories

939
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: develop ideas about our universe, they have to try to

940
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: match our experience. And so if they're going to have

941
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: a theory with eleven dimensions, they can't make those other

942
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: dimensions the same as our dimensions. That have to be

943
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: weird or different. So as you say, maybe our kind

944
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: of matter doesn't move along those dimensions, or maybe those

945
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: mentions aren't infinite the way X, Y and Z are

946
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 1: there like a weird little loops. But in this book,

947
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 1: it seems like these aliens used to move and live

948
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: in these other dimensions, so probably they were infinite dimensions.

949
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: You imagine like an eleven dimensional universe with eleven different directions.

950
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: You can move as far as you wanted. I guess

951
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: somehow in this universe that the book is in or describes,

952
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: alians figured out how to like collapse themselves to a

953
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: smaller number of dimensions. They have like adapted to living

954
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: in a smaller number of dimensions. Like if you could

955
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 1: make yourself a thin sheet of paper and still somehow

956
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 1: have all of your biology and all of your synapses work.

957
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 1: If you could do that, then you could safely collapse

958
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: the universe down to two D and you would survive,

959
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: and anybody who wasn't prepared would not survive. Like you

960
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: could just shed and a dimension or something. But that

961
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: would be weird, right, Like it seems almost unthinkable, Like

962
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 1: how could we somehow adapt to being just too deed?

963
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: Like are all of our organs are three d um

964
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: If you smash them together, they wouldn't quite work the

965
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: same way. Yeah, I think it would be a pretty

966
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: big engineering project, right. You have to think about how

967
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: things flow, you know, like how fluids flow in your body,

968
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: and you know the tangle of arteries you have. You

969
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: can't just like lay that stuff out. I don't know

970
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: if you've ever seen that exhibit the museum where they've

971
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: flast sized human bodies. You can see the incredible tangle

972
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: of organs and the neurons. And it's definitely a three

973
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 1: D set up, So you can't just like lay it flat.

974
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: You'd have to definitely reorganize it. It would look more

975
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: like a circuit board, right. A circuit board is like

976
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: a two D representation of relationships between things, so that

977
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: you're trying not to cross things. And so somehow these

978
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 1: atings can do that. And somehow they also figured out

979
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: a weapon I guess that can destroy dimensions or collapse them,

980
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: collapse dimensions, you know, and they use it on the

981
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: Solar System and like Jupiter is flattened into a disk.

982
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: It's pretty dramatic stuff. But how does it work? Like,

983
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: you know, you shoot it or you like aim it,

984
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 1: or you send like a plane that somehow absurd dimension,

985
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: Like do they talk about how that works? Yeah, they

986
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: take a two dimensional plane and they shoot it into

987
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: the Solar system, and anything it touches gets converted into

988
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: two dimensional matter. Whoa sort of like the Phantom Zone

989
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: and the Superman Original meaning, right, is that what you mean?

990
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: It's like a like a mirror that floats around in

991
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 1: space and if it touches you, you're now trapped inside

992
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: the mirror. Yeah. Not exactly clear on how big this

993
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: two D plane was that they shot into the Solar System,

994
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: but it touched Saturn for example, before touch Urinus, because

995
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: Urinus was on the other side of the Sun when

996
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 1: this thing came into the Solar System. So yeah, it's

997
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: definitely like you get touched and then you get collapsed. Oh,

998
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: I see, And I guess the premise is that some

999
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: of these aliens have this technology, and I guess they

1000
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,479
Speaker 1: can go from any dimension to a lower dimension, right,

1001
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 1: And so because we're in three D, they send us

1002
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: a two D fire m hmm, exactly. They smash us

1003
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: down to two dimensions. They flatten us. But there are

1004
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: there are three D two or they used to be

1005
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: hired D. It's not clear to me in this book

1006
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: what dimensions those aliens are. They definitely used to be

1007
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 1: higher dimensional, like they started out ten dimensions and it's

1008
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: pretty hard to imagine, Like re engineering a ten dimensional

1009
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: being down one dimension, Now imagine re engineering it down

1010
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,439
Speaker 1: eight dimensions to two dimensions. That seems impossible, but hey,

1011
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: it's science fiction for a reason. Yeah. All right, Well,

1012
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: I guess the question from Chris is whether this is

1013
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 1: possible because he has that could an advanced illistation set

1014
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: up a dimensional weapon to collapse based time? So I guess, um,

1015
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: is there any kind of basis for that? Like can

1016
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: you just collapse dimensions in spacetime? Well, you know, the

1017
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: first caveat is we just really have no idea how

1018
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 1: space works, how many dimensions there are, and what the

1019
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: rules are. We're just really beginning to discover, you know,

1020
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: what space is in the shape and structure of the universe.

1021
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: So we're early days, but with our current understanding, that

1022
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: seems pretty flat out impossible. You know, something that you

1023
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 1: can do with the universes. You can change like how

1024
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,959
Speaker 1: much space curves. You could put mass in it which

1025
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: bends it. You can change shape, but changing it's fundamental

1026
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: topology like how it's connected and the dimensions, there's no

1027
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: way we know of that can do that, Like no

1028
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: amount of mass or energy can change the fundamental shape

1029
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: of the universe or the number of its dimensions. I mean,

1030
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: you could make these dimensions bigger or smaller, but you

1031
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: can't rule them out entirely. Right, Well, I guess there's

1032
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: two questions. One is I mean, technically it's possible to

1033
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: take something in our world that's three D and make

1034
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: it two D. Right, It's called squishing, just like iron

1035
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: it right, like you just you squish it, it will

1036
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,720
Speaker 1: become to D. It'll be I mean, they'll be super messy.

1037
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,720
Speaker 1: But technically you could do that, right, You just wouldn't

1038
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: trap it to move into D. And we did a

1039
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: fun podcast about whether there are two D objects in

1040
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 1: our universe, and there's some fun systems where like electrons

1041
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: are trapped into a plane and they move around in

1042
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: new weird ways following two D quantum mechanics, which is

1043
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. So, yeah, that's something you can do. You

1044
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: can't have two D objects in a three D world,

1045
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: right right. But I guess maybe the question is is

1046
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: it possibable or would it maybe require like an infinite

1047
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 1: amount of energy to just get rid of a dimension.

1048
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: I think the most you could do if a dimension

1049
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,439
Speaker 1: was curved is that you could enhance its curvature, right,

1050
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: And so you could take a dimension which is like

1051
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 1: rolled up and you could make it basically have zero radius,

1052
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: so you could shrink it down to almost zero. The

1053
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: way you enhance the curvature in a dimension is you

1054
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: just add energy, right, Energy curves space, and so I

1055
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: guess in principle, if a dimension is not infinite, if

1056
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 1: it's already finite, then you could get it to collapse.

1057
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: You could shrink it down by pouring in a lot

1058
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: of energy. I don't think you could change an infinite

1059
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: dimension like our X, Y, and z. I don't think

1060
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: you could collapse those because you can't bend an infinite

1061
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: sheet into a sphere right, right, But I guess, you know,

1062
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is that you know, we

1063
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 1: know that space is expanding right now, like the whole

1064
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,439
Speaker 1: universe is expanding, and so it could also contract, right.

1065
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: I think maybe the constant might be, like you collapse

1066
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 1: only one of the dimensions, like somehow you've figured out

1067
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: how you know space expansion works, and you can somehow

1068
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: collapse one of the dimensions or maybe even expanded. And

1069
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,919
Speaker 1: so if I could do that in an area, then

1070
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: everything that was in that area would collapse to two

1071
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: dimensions or would it continue to be the same. It's

1072
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: just that to us it would look squished and in

1073
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: one dimension. Yeah, you could definitely use space to squish stuff, right, Like,

1074
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: pour a lot of energy into something, space will bend

1075
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: and you could use that as a press, like a

1076
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: one dimensional black hole or something crazy like that. Yeah,

1077
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 1: one dimensional black hole. Yeah, that's what this kind of

1078
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: would be. Right, Well, I think that's the way you

1079
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 1: could compress stuff. That wouldn't change the dimensionality of space itself, however, right,

1080
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 1: space would still have that higher dimensionality. Would just be

1081
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: that you have created like a two D object in

1082
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: a three D space that wouldn't actually compress space. Like,

1083
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: if the universe is infinite and goes on forever, there's

1084
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: nothing you could do to remove one of those dimensions.

1085
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: If the universe, however, isn't infinite, if it like loops

1086
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: around on itself, like we've talked about, maybe in the

1087
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 1: shape of a donut or sphere, then you could potentially

1088
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: collapse one of those dimensions to have a very small distance.

1089
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: Wouldn't actually technically be gone, but it might practically be gone.

1090
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 1: It might be infinitely small, right, right. Well, I remember

1091
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: in in UM when I took math classes and talked

1092
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: about like matrix transformations that you know, certain transformations have

1093
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: something called the Moalth space right, where you essentially get

1094
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: rid of a dimension when you transform something by that matrix.

1095
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 1: Could you imagine something like that being done to the

1096
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: loss of the universe. Well, when we talk about transformations

1097
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 1: and we're talking about space, we're really just talking about

1098
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: looking at space from different points of view, Like transform

1099
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: your point of view, you transform your coordinate system. You

1100
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: don't usually transform space itself, though we don't understand why

1101
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,760
Speaker 1: or how. It's just sort of born with certain features.

1102
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,720
Speaker 1: Those features are like the number of dimensions and also

1103
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: the shapes of those dimensions. And we don't think that

1104
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: in any way for energy or mass to change those things.

1105
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: That could change the radius, that could like compress it

1106
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: or expand it, but it can't change that fundamental nature

1107
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 1: as far as we know. But I do think it's

1108
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: a really creative thing to think about, like, and that's

1109
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: the kind of thinking that's going to make some theories

1110
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: out there go maybe there is a way. Actually I

1111
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: used to think that was impossible, and then a week

1112
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: later I had five ideas. So it's a it's a

1113
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: great creative thinking and I think it's a really awesome

1114
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: part of this book. Not something I've ever heard of before.

1115
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: All right, Well, then, to answer Chris this question, the

1116
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: answers to couldn't advance positions at the collapse dimensions as

1117
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: a weapon? Um doesn't seem likely to Daniel, but maybe.

1118
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 1: I guess you're going to think about it. Check back

1119
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: with me in a week. We'll see. And I guess

1120
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: another question is are there e walks in this third

1121
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: installment of the Star Wars the thrillogy? There are two

1122
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: d e walks? Too many? Too many e walks, is

1123
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: what you're saying to the e walks is too many walks?

1124
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: I love the e walks. Man who hates e walks? Really,

1125
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: what kind of person you have to be to not

1126
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: like e walks. I just heard a theory that originally

1127
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: maybe the walks were supposed to be wookies, but somebow

1128
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: that it got changed at the end or something exactly

1129
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 1: producers did their job. That might be just a fan

1130
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: theory the book, I don't know. Well, until then, I

1131
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 1: think that Saturny and the rest of the Solar system

1132
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 1: are safe from being collapsed into two D objects. For now,

1133
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: you still have some room to move around in all right. Well,

1134
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: then answers all of our listener questions. Thanks again to

1135
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 1: everyone who submitted questions. If you have questions about the universe,

1136
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: about anything we've talked about here on the podcast, please

1137
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: let us know we'd be happy to answer them. Thanks

1138
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 1: very much to everyone who writes in and interact with us.

1139
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: We love hearing your questions. We hope you enjoyed that.

1140
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, See you next time. Thanks for listening,

1141
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is

1142
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from

1143
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1144
00:57:50,200 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.