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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from housetop works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and my name is Christians Sager. So, hey,

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Speaker 1: if this is an episode that you are listening to,

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Speaker 1: maybe with your kids, or maybe you're concerned about the

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Speaker 1: company that you're listening to it, and we should just

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Speaker 1: let you know up front, this is gonna be a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a more graphic episode of Stuff to

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Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind. Be uh, based on the title. You

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Speaker 1: probably know that already, but we just wanted to give

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Speaker 1: you a heads up because we know that a lot

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Speaker 1: of families right into us and say, hey, I really

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Speaker 1: like listening to the show. I listened to it on

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Speaker 1: the way to school in the morning with my daughter. Um,

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Speaker 1: this might not be the episode to do that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you might give this one a skip in that case.

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Speaker 1: Now that being said, we're we're gonna tackle the topic

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Speaker 1: of sex spots in this episode, and we are, as usual,

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Speaker 1: we're going to do our best to to demystify the

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Speaker 1: topic of bit. We're gonna floor. Yes, we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about some of the in many cases trashy er um.

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Speaker 1: Examples of this show up in our science fiction. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about some definite opposition to the idea

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Speaker 1: of sex spots, but we're also going to explore some

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Speaker 1: territory that I was really fascinated with that where where

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Speaker 1: we see a more positive vision of what a sex

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Speaker 1: spot or sexual interaction between humans and machines might consist,

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Speaker 1: of visions of this that are beneficial, even therapeutic. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the real hook here, and the thing

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Speaker 1: that I didn't know a lot about going into the research,

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Speaker 1: which is that there are a lot of uh of

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Speaker 1: these robots being built, and there's a lot of research

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Speaker 1: going into their construction that's healing basically for human beings

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Speaker 1: in a variety of ways. And we'll get into that now.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into the science, we should just take

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Speaker 1: a few moments to talk about some of the examples

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Speaker 1: that we've seen, and there are many different examples of

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Speaker 1: sex spots in science fiction. I mean, whenever we start

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Speaker 1: thinking thinking about artificial humans, and certainly we've dreamed about

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Speaker 1: artificial humans since ancient times and they factored into our

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Speaker 1: many of our myth cycles. We we inherently deal with

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Speaker 1: our anxiety about technology and our anxiety about human nature

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Speaker 1: in dreaming up these various examples. So a few that

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Speaker 1: come to mind. There's a wonderful novel titled The Wind

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Speaker 1: Up Girl. Uh, and this was by Paulo Bacadalupe. And

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Speaker 1: this is this coming concerned you know, sort of your

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Speaker 1: sort of your typical sex bot scenario. We have a

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Speaker 1: pleasure body of some kind, a feminine robot that is

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Speaker 1: made for male pleasure, that escapes, goes rogue, you know,

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Speaker 1: has a has a struggle for independence. It's a really

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Speaker 1: good book. Uh, but it does explore kind of a

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Speaker 1: classic trope here that is a very common trope in

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Speaker 1: sci fi now now that I think about it, and

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Speaker 1: especially looking at a lot of our examples here with

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Speaker 1: things that are really kind of popular right now, like

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Speaker 1: Humans or Westward Old, right, like the other shows that

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Speaker 1: are all exploring that same idea. Yeah, both great shows.

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Speaker 1: And you can and it's obvious why this is such

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Speaker 1: a powerful trope because you get to explore not only

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Speaker 1: are concerns about technology and the future of technology, but

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Speaker 1: also about about what it means to be to be

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Speaker 1: female in today's world and and uh and in various

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Speaker 1: feminine issues that you can explore through this, Uh, this

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Speaker 1: fantastic vision. Yeah. The other recent one that really gripped

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Speaker 1: a lot of people's attention. I thought it was maybe

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Speaker 1: the best movie that came out that year was XM

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Speaker 1: Gonna Yes. Alex Garland's XM Gonna Wow. Uh definitely Uh

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Speaker 1: talked about the issues surrounding sex spots, but was more

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Speaker 1: about I guess the like emotional availability of AI. And

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Speaker 1: this is something that like we've actually off air been

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Speaker 1: kind of talking about, like how it relates to this

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Speaker 1: topic is um For instance, that Spike Jones movie Her,

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Speaker 1: which I haven't seen but I don't think actually features

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Speaker 1: a robot in it, but it sort of the same idea.

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Speaker 1: It's like, can an artificial intelligence convince you that it's

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Speaker 1: real enough that you have you're an emotionally engaging relationship

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Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, this is, of course, is the whole

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Speaker 1: topic unto itself, Like to what degree we in do

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Speaker 1: you a non living thing with life, even if it's

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Speaker 1: not a robot, even if it is a doll or

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Speaker 1: a toy painting. I mean, we have this fabulous ability

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Speaker 1: to anthropomorphize just about anything. Yea to have it lead

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Speaker 1: you put a smiley face on something and it will

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Speaker 1: create we will instantly have this smidgeon at least a

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Speaker 1: smidgeon of investment in that thing as a person. Well,

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Speaker 1: and that goes way back. You've got notes here to

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Speaker 1: the Greek myth of Hefestus, right, or as I usually

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Speaker 1: call him, Vulcan, because I think that's Vulcans. What the

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Speaker 1: Roman version of that? Yeah, if you have Vulcans, the

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Speaker 1: Roman version and uh yeah, and if you've ever rolled

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Speaker 1: through Birmingham, Alabama, they have a big statue of Vulcan. Wait,

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Speaker 1: is that right? That's true? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it

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Speaker 1: was like a steal working town. Okay, so, uh so

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Speaker 1: Vulcan plays a role in in my personal history as well.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, this in myth. He created a series of

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Speaker 1: life sized golden maids, among various other models. So he

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Speaker 1: was kind of mad scientist of Greek and Roman myth.

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Speaker 1: But you can see they're like going that far back

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Speaker 1: that we human beings were thinking about in our culture

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Speaker 1: and our storytelling, like how we were going to try

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Speaker 1: to replicate the human experience in machines or in I

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Speaker 1: believe the terminology that was used referring to Vulcan and

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Speaker 1: Hephestus was biotechnique. Yeah, yeah, that's right, And there's a

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Speaker 1: wonderful Ian magazine article on that, and I'll try to

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Speaker 1: include a link to that and some of the other

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Speaker 1: articles who were mentioning here in the landing page for

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Speaker 1: this episode of Stuff to Blow your Mind dot Com. Also,

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Speaker 1: obviously many people out there probably thinking of Darryl Hannah's

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Speaker 1: character Priss from Blade Runner, which is referred to as

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Speaker 1: a basic pleasure model. Although so it's funny. I was

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Speaker 1: reading an Ionine article yesterday that's all about what what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about right now, the fictionalized versions of sex spots.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of argumentation in the commentary about whether

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Speaker 1: Priss counted because replicants are technically organic individuals. I think

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Speaker 1: she counts. Yeah, yeah, there there's that whole Once you

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Speaker 1: get into the whole android replicate thing, it gets a

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Speaker 1: little a little hazy. Now that anybody out there is

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Speaker 1: a fan of Rick and Morty, there was an episode

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Speaker 1: titled Raising gas Orpazorp that included a sex spot that

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen that one. Yeah, that that Morty ends

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Speaker 1: up acquiring and has a brief addiction to. So we

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Speaker 1: might come back to to that vision of a sex

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Speaker 1: spot here in the future. But that kind of leads

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Speaker 1: us into some of the more exploitive visions. I guess

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Speaker 1: you can say, the sort of heavy metal visions of

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Speaker 1: the sex spot. Um, what what was the name of

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Speaker 1: the artist that you, uh, you sent me yesterday? There's

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Speaker 1: this guy. So heavy Metal Magazine is what we're referring to,

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Speaker 1: which is if if you're unfamiliar with it, it is

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Speaker 1: an American magazine that specializes in comics that are sort

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Speaker 1: of like R rated fantasy sci fi comics. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: the cover art is usually pretty salacious. And Robert found

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Speaker 1: this one artist who has done quite a number of

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Speaker 1: covers for them that specializes in sexualized female robots. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: this would be, of course, be a Japanese artist, Hajimie

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Speaker 1: sore Yama. Okay, yeah, and this is this is one

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Speaker 1: of the Remember when I first got online, really the

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Speaker 1: first year of college, last year of high school, I

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Speaker 1: ended up introducing myself to a number of fantasy artists

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Speaker 1: that that I was instantly taken with. And uh and

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Speaker 1: I remember encountering this guy's work and it's it's eye catching,

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Speaker 1: but it's all of like sexy robot pin up dolls,

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Speaker 1: like that's his his thing, and that's certainly a vision

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Speaker 1: of the sex spot, the fimbot that you know, whatever

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Speaker 1: you want to call them, whatever they're calling your particular

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Speaker 1: uh sci fi property that we see time and time again. Um,

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Speaker 1: like a property that I think back to is NS

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Speaker 1: Cherry two thousand starring Melanie Griffith. I have never seen that,

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Speaker 1: and I, uh, you know, I've always kind of heard

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Speaker 1: about it on the fringe of things, but yeah, it

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Speaker 1: really hit my radar doing the research for this episode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's definitely one that falls more into the you know,

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Speaker 1: exactly what you'd expect from a ninety eighties film, So

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Speaker 1: it has a sex about it. I suppose like she

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Speaker 1: can't complain too much about her daughter doing these fifty

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Speaker 1: shades of Gray movies. Then if like her daughter can

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Speaker 1: just be like, well you were in Cherry two thousands, Yes,

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Speaker 1: but she was not Cherry two thousand. She was she

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Speaker 1: was just she was like a human bounty hunt. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that, all right, Um, you know what

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Speaker 1: is not on the list that it just like popped

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Speaker 1: in my head. I can't believe we forgot about this.

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Speaker 1: The Stepford Wives. Yeah, the Stepford Wives a big one

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Speaker 1: that and it ties in directly with some of the

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Speaker 1: fears and anxieties they were going to discuss here, because

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Speaker 1: it's men making robot women to be their perfect wives. Yeah. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's Jude Law as Jiggalo Joe in the movie AI. Uh,

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Speaker 1: one of the rare examples of a male sex spot

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Speaker 1: in popular culture. On Buffy the Vampire Slayer, they made

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Speaker 1: several sexpot including one of Buffy for Spike, which really

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Speaker 1: there's some really dicey sexual relationship stuff that goes on

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Speaker 1: in that show towards the end of the later seasons,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of them. Um. And then the comics, Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's this comic called Autumn Lends that's coming out right

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Speaker 1: now that I really enjoy. It's by Kurt Busick and

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Dewey and uh. In the second arc, the characters

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Speaker 1: encounter these statue esque naked robot women who once served

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Speaker 1: this like long forgotten civilization as sex slaves, and when

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Speaker 1: one of the characters tries to force himself upon them,

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Speaker 1: they rebel and it's it's really it's a really interesting

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Speaker 1: take on this whole thing that we're gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: about today. But um, I highly recommended if you're into comics,

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Speaker 1: check that out. So obviously, some of these visions of

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Speaker 1: the sex spot are are more fantastic than others, and

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Speaker 1: some are more serious than others in their commentary, But

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Speaker 1: ultimately it's all sort of circling around our our legitimate

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Speaker 1: concerns about ourselves and technology. So what are we afraid of? What?

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Speaker 1: What indeed are we very right to be concerned about? Uh?

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Speaker 1: You know, we see this continuing trope of the human

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Speaker 1: abuse of robots mirroring our own abuse of each other.

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Speaker 1: If we create robots in our image, then are we

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Speaker 1: destined to exploit them, to abuse them, and even further

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Speaker 1: objectify and to humanize each other based on this model?

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Speaker 1: And I also can't help but feel that female sex

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Speaker 1: spots and fiction especially tend to serve, as you know,

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Speaker 1: as commentaries on product femininity. Uh the the all too

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Speaker 1: you know, frequent portrayal of human females as mere sex objects,

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Speaker 1: devoid of nuanced personality or identity. And we didn't plan

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Speaker 1: it out this way, but actually so coming out this

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Speaker 1: week along with this episode, we're doing an episode on

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Speaker 1: the science of ovulation and how that plays into marketing. Femininity.

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Speaker 1: Uh and and so it's it's interesting to do these

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Speaker 1: two episodes side by side and sort of see the parallels. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's always this weird synchronicity between episodes, it seems. So

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Speaker 1: why don't we get into the current state of you

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Speaker 1: know what. Some of you out there are probably like, well, wait, what,

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Speaker 1: Like there's all these pop culture versions that you just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: but where are these sex spots you speak of now? Right? Um,

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Speaker 1: I would just first like to very quickly go over

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Speaker 1: a short history of sex toys in terms of you

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Speaker 1: know where we're at with that. These are tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of years old. You know, most people don't know that.

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Speaker 1: They probably think it's relatively recent invention. The oldest dil though,

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Speaker 1: is more than twenty thousand years old. And vibrators began

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Speaker 1: as medical devices that midwives and physicians used to treat

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Speaker 1: illnesses such as hysteria through what they referred to as

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Speaker 1: pelvic massage or manual stimulation. The first one of these

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Speaker 1: was introduced in seventeen thirty four. That's that goes far back. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't into the late eighteen hundreds when powered

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Speaker 1: vibrators were available to doctors and then by they were

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Speaker 1: available directly to consumers, and then you know, nowadays people

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Speaker 1: think about computer driven sex toys. That goes back to

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Speaker 1: the mid nineteen seventies. Yes, I mean, certainly, sexuality is

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Speaker 1: always a huge aspect of human behavior, even if we

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Speaker 1: want to push it through the background. So it has

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Speaker 1: a tendency to be at the forefront of any technological

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Speaker 1: advancement or any kind of new enterprise. I think it's

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Speaker 1: just yeah, worth like reminding ourselves like, hey, this isn't new,

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Speaker 1: this isnt been around for a long time. What we're

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Speaker 1: discussing here is really just like the latest iteration of

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Speaker 1: this and what does that say about us? Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's not a situation where suddenly sexually minded individuals are

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Speaker 1: at the forefront, uh, you know, pushing and meddling with

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Speaker 1: the technology. They've always been there. Uh So, just to

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Speaker 1: give a brief idea of the future so that we

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Speaker 1: can we can backtrack and discuss the present. There was

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Speaker 1: an interesting Pew Research Center paper that came out in

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Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen titled Digital Life in five AI Robotics

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Speaker 1: in the Future of Jobs. Now. For the most part,

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Speaker 1: this article did not go into the use of sexual robots.

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Speaker 1: But there is one part where this guy by the

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Speaker 1: name of Stowboyd, whose lead researcher for Giga o M

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Speaker 1: Research a futurist, he predicted quote, Pizzas will not be

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Speaker 1: delivered by teenagers hoping for a tip. Food will be

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Speaker 1: raised by robotic vehicles, even in small plot urban farms.

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Speaker 1: That will become the norm since so many people will

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Speaker 1: have lost their jobs to bots. Your X rays will

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Speaker 1: be reviewed by a battery of Watson grade aiyes, and

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Speaker 1: humans will only be pulled in when the machines disagree.

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Speaker 1: Robotics sex partners will be commonplace. Although the source of

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Speaker 1: scorn and division the way that critics today bemoans selfies

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Speaker 1: as an indicator of all that's wrong with the world.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's an interesting take on it. I

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Speaker 1: definitely agree with him that on the scorn and division,

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Speaker 1: and that is going to be a you know, really

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Speaker 1: the big divide that we're going to speak about today

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Speaker 1: in terms of what's going on with this technology. I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't see it as being analogous to selfies,

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Speaker 1: though I think it's a little more extreme than that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think time and time again we have to come

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Speaker 1: back to examples of what the what the current technology is.

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Speaker 1: So today we have a number of different sexual devices,

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Speaker 1: sexual toys of your will that are on the market,

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Speaker 1: and many of them are very high selling. That being said,

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Speaker 1: sex toys continue and perhaps will always be. Uh that

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Speaker 1: the punch line of many a joke. Yeah, right, exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about this earlier that it's like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is the stuff of like late night

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Speaker 1: talk show hosts, like making a throwaway joke here there.

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Speaker 1: It's something everybody can kind of relate to and laugh

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Speaker 1: at and laugh at themselves about. Right, And then at

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Speaker 1: the same time, many of the people who are laughing

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Speaker 1: and some that are not laughing are still going to

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Speaker 1: perhaps go online and order one of these devices for

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Speaker 1: their personal use. Yeah. So we're a far cry, though,

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Speaker 1: from having a robotic humanoid body that that moves like

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Speaker 1: we do. But Roby Boss continue to make strides in

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Speaker 1: this area. So everyone's seeing videos of the various of

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Speaker 1: Boston Dynamics robots, you know, and they're often kind of

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Speaker 1: fear something like mechanical jumping horses. I guess, so we

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Speaker 1: should probably clarify what this is. Maybe not everybody out

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Speaker 1: there is familiar with this. So this is what last

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Speaker 1: year and a half, Boston Dynamics is like continually releasing

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Speaker 1: these kind of like press release videos of these robots

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Speaker 1: that they're working on that basically look like robot pack mules. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's kind of the cell, right that their robotic

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Speaker 1: pack mules that can that would have a military application,

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Speaker 1: that can go over diverse terrain. So we can look

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Speaker 1: to those and obviously these are not sexy, these are

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Speaker 1: not these are not devices where you say, hey, that's

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Speaker 1: the future of sexual robotics right there, but they do

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Speaker 1: demonstrate the strides that we're making and creating robots that

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Speaker 1: can move in reality, that can that can that can

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Speaker 1: actually interact with the world physically and an you know,

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Speaker 1: there are other areas where the technology continues to impress.

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Speaker 1: So we know robotis listed surgery, VR, haptic feedback, and

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Speaker 1: there is this, uh, this field of that's sometimes referred

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Speaker 1: to as tele del donis uh where they're utilizing all

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Speaker 1: this technology for more advanced sexual devices and sex toys. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This is basically across long distances right right. Like one

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Speaker 1: example of this is uh uh Frison I believe is

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Speaker 1: the name of how you pronounced the product, and they

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Speaker 1: use haptic sensors and robotic accessories to enable remote control sex. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's take a quick break and when we get back,

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Speaker 1: now that we've covered sort of, you know, up to

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Speaker 1: the current state of affairs with sex spots, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about the off the shelf on the market

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Speaker 1: robot Roxy. Alright, we're back. So yeah, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: Roxy a little bit. Roxy is I think a it's

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Speaker 1: an important example to hit, but it's also such a

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Speaker 1: uh problematic example because it it represents some of the

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Speaker 1: more notorious aspects of sexual robots. So we learned about

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Speaker 1: Roxy from Eon magazine, which if you're a listen long

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Speaker 1: time listener, you know that we read quite a bit

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Speaker 1: of it. Uh. It's a robot companion. Uh. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: quite produce the Uncanny Valley effect, you know, unlike um,

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Speaker 1: those actroids that you sometimes see that are created in

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Speaker 1: like Japanese commercials or something like that, but they come

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Speaker 1: Roxy comes in a variety of models and some of

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Speaker 1: them actually have personalities. So there's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: programming that goes into this. Uh. It includes the regular Roxy.

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Speaker 1: There is also mature Martha Young Yoko and Frigid Farrah.

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Speaker 1: And that's where I got a little I got a

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Speaker 1: little creeped out personally, because the idea of frigid fare

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Speaker 1: is it's like she plays hard to get, she's you know,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily interested in having sex with you. And that's

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Speaker 1: a little that's where they're some weird lines. I think, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this this is, you know, an obvious example of something

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Speaker 1: will come back to the idea that you have men

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Speaker 1: creating female robots for a male audience, and they've got

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Speaker 1: very specific fetish aia, very stereotypical betrayals and um and

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Speaker 1: sort of male approved models of what a female is,

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Speaker 1: very simplistic models. Yeah. Oh, and I should clarify to

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Speaker 1: young Yoko is not although we are going to talk

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Speaker 1: about pedophile sex spots, Young Yoko is supposed to be

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Speaker 1: over the age of eighteen personality wise. But basically, this

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Speaker 1: roxy robot sounds kind of like Sirian the way that

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Speaker 1: it talks back to you. Their purpose is to pride

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Speaker 1: more than sex. The idea is that they're your true

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Speaker 1: companion and you can talk to them before and after sex. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And and given that you've got all the personalities chosen here,

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Speaker 1: you know what, what does this tell us about the

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Speaker 1: future proliferation of these sex spots? Uh? And here's where

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Speaker 1: it gets real weird. Aon says that the person who

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Speaker 1: created roxy it was originally created as the recreation of

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Speaker 1: a friend that was lost in nine eleven, and then

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Speaker 1: that developed into this consumer oriented sex spot. Well, and

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Speaker 1: then I've also read that that the the technology behind

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Speaker 1: rocks he started out as a as an inquiry into

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Speaker 1: creation of a robot home care nurse. So now I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering if there's just like these different urban myths about Roxy. Well, now,

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Speaker 1: I I I wrote a little bit years ago where

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Speaker 1: I ended up touching on Roxy and uh, and I

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Speaker 1: believe the home care nurse thing is is legit. But

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Speaker 1: I guess it comes down to like the evolution of

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Speaker 1: an idea, the evolution of of figuring out how to

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Speaker 1: commercially apply your technology. So what starts is an is

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Speaker 1: an intention to create a robotic nurse. Uh, may end

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Speaker 1: up going through some changes until suddenly you're producing a

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Speaker 1: sex doll. Well, like you said, with all technological developments,

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Speaker 1: that kind of the pioneer end of it is sexual

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Speaker 1: in nature. I mean, look at the Internet. Yeah, exactly

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Speaker 1: now we mentioned sex dolls. Of course, sex dolls have

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Speaker 1: been around for some time, and it's been proven that

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Speaker 1: individuals can at least find some sort of detached pleasure

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Speaker 1: or even an imaginative bond with even just a non

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Speaker 1: robotic semblance of a human. I always think back to

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Speaker 1: a wonderful BBC documentary titled Guys and Dolls that came out. God,

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Speaker 1: it must have been this. I think it maybe ten

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Speaker 1: years old. Now you can find I think you can

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Speaker 1: find most of it on YouTube and other such websites.

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Speaker 1: But they profiled a handful of real doll owners. These are,

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Speaker 1: of course anatomically correct life size human replicants. So are

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Speaker 1: they built for the purpose of sexes. They're built with

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Speaker 1: that purpose exclusively in mind. But is this documentary explored

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Speaker 1: the individuals in their bond with these things ranged immensely,

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Speaker 1: so there was there's like a there's one guy in

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Speaker 1: it that's hanging them up on hooks, and another that

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Speaker 1: just seems to obsessively collect him and has some stack

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Speaker 1: like kindling and his crawl space. And those are some

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Speaker 1: examples that you know, maybe hit the creep level of

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people. But then there's this one

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Speaker 1: guy who seems to have a largely, if not exclusively,

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Speaker 1: emotional relationship with his doll, and he's going through like separation,

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Speaker 1: anxiety over having he's having to move, and he's having

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Speaker 1: to ship it. Okay, so it's it. It doesn't. It

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Speaker 1: does a good job of just showing you, all right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can have something like a real doll, but then

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Speaker 1: the varying levels of engagement with it, the way people

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Speaker 1: anthropomorphize it is going to vary from person to person. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess like if you want to step

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Speaker 1: back at it and look at it like a very

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Speaker 1: simple sense here and and pardon me if this is

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Speaker 1: a little vulgar, but uh, it sounds like we're somewhere

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Speaker 1: between that movie her I referred to earlier, where like

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Speaker 1: nobody is needed. It's just an emotional relationship with an

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Speaker 1: artificial consciousness and like a fleshlight, right, um, a flashlight.

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Speaker 1: Just to explain, because this will come up again, is

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Speaker 1: a popular sex toy with a male market, Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: um so, And that's kind of where we're going to

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00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: find criticism on both sides about this. Is like arguments

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Speaker 1: about why we shouldn't make sex spots and arguments about

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Speaker 1: why we should because there's this broad spectrum, right, um speaking,

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Speaker 1: which have you seen the movie Dead Girl before? I

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Speaker 1: have not. I'm familiar with it. I think is one

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Speaker 1: that would always show up on Netflix formula. Yeah, it's that,

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Speaker 1: I saw it on Netflix. It's not about sex spots,

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Speaker 1: but it's, um, it's related to this. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to give too much away, but essentially, these guys find

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Speaker 1: a woman's dead body, but the body doesn't rot at all,

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Speaker 1: like she's inanimate, but she's not dead. So it's a

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Speaker 1: zombie film kind of yeah. Uh, and it goes where

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Speaker 1: you would expect it to go based on what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about. A right, Anyways, it seemed related to this,

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Speaker 1: all right, Well, and no, let's get into the case

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Speaker 1: against sex spots. I feel like this is a good

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Speaker 1: place to start because it's going to tie in more

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Speaker 1: directly with some of those sci fi ideas that we

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Speaker 1: explored already. So you have one individual in particular with

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Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning here, and that's Dr Kathleen Richardson. She's

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Speaker 1: a robot ethicist at de Montfort University in Leicester, and

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Speaker 1: she heads the campaign against sex Robots. Or c A

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Speaker 1: s R. And she makes a number of arguments. She

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Speaker 1: basically has a manifesto. Yeah, and so look, we should

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Speaker 1: clarify like like this appeared to me to start off

426
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: as a long academic paper which is you know, well written,

427
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 1: but now it's like it's this whole web presence with

428
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: sort of action items to it um. And she calls

429
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: basically for an organized approach against the development of sex

430
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: robots as a necessary response for humanity. And she says

431
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: the reason why is that sex robots, in her mind,

432
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: reflect human principles of dignity, mutuality, and freedom, and that

433
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: by creating these bots, it's a representation of violence, discrimination

434
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: and coercion. So we are manifesting kind of like the

435
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: worst parts of ourselves in making these sex spots. And

436
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: she also argues that the development of sex spots further

437
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: sexually objectifies women and children. She says the vision for

438
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: sex spots is underscored by reference to the prostitute John Exchange,

439
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: which relies on recognizing only the needs and wants of

440
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: the buyers of sex, while the sellers of sex are

441
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 1: not attributed subjectively, and they're reduced to you know, a thing,

442
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: an object like a robot. She argues that the development

443
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: of sex robots and the ideas to support their production

444
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: show the immense horrors still present in the world of prostitution,

445
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 1: which is built on the perceived inferiority of women and children,

446
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: and therefore justifies their use of sex objects. Also that

447
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: the development of sex robots will further reduce human empathy

448
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: and that can only be developed by an experience of

449
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: a mutual relationship. And that's a that one ties in

450
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: nicely to You and Joe's recent episodes on animal empathy

451
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: and the absolutely Yeah. She goes on to challenge the

452
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: view that the development of adult and child sex robot

453
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: robots will have a positive benefit to society but instead

454
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: further reinforced power relations of inequality and violence. Will get

455
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: into what she's arguing about in a little bit, yeah,

456
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: and then finally she says, you know, they take issue

457
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 1: with arguments that propose that sex robots could help reduce

458
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: sexual exploitation and violence toward prostituted persons. Uh. This is

459
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: pointing to all the evidence that shows how technology and

460
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: the sex trade co exists and reinforce each other, creating

461
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: more demands subsequently for human bodies and we're gonna talk

462
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: about that a little bit too, especially in the case

463
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: of pedophilia. Now. Dr Kate Devlin, who's a researcher at

464
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: Goldsmith University of London, UH, their Department of Computing, she

465
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: took some issue with this in a September two thousand

466
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: sixteen interview with The Guardian. So she countered that that

467
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 1: this argument as the whole dismisses the fact that women,

468
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 1: not men, are quote more likely to purchase artificial non

469
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: human substitutes such as vibrators. Yeah. She also says that

470
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: the campaign against sex robots this is to distinguish, this

471
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: is Kate Devlin talking against Kathleen Richardson. UH. She says

472
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 1: that it rests on a parallel parallel that's drawn between

473
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: sex robots and female sex workers. And Devlin sees sex

474
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: robots as being potentially useful, especially if they're using machine

475
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: learning and biofeedback, in the sense that they can quote

476
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: provide adaptive, personal, fulfilling sexual experiences and in that way

477
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: they could be used for therapeutic reasons. She also says

478
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: sex look, sex is part of humanity's mental processes and

479
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: it's fundamental to our human conditions. So it's worth considering

480
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: how are bodily interactions like this make changes to our

481
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: brain and how that has bearing on our cognitive processes.

482
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: So there's a lot here that she's arguing that says like, yeah, like,

483
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: I understand your argument, Kathleen Richardson about you know, a

484
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: campaign against sexual robots. But there's some potential benefits here

485
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: too that you seem to be ignoring. Yeah, yeah, she

486
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: I think she makes a strong counter argument here, you know, saying, hey,

487
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: would a woman be disinterested in buying a human replica

488
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: or just a robotic sexual stimulations system because the the

489
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 1: market information would tend to say no, that women already

490
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: buy uh sexual technology, so why not the next generation

491
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: of sexual technology? Yeah? Absolutely, Now, indeed, there is this

492
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: problem that technology in general is often made buying men

493
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: four men uh. And we can see examples of this

494
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: well beyond the scope of of sexual devices. The artificial heart,

495
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: for example, Uh, it's it's sizing has long best fit

496
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: the dimensions of an adult human males chest. It wasn't

497
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: until later that companies like Sincardia eventually rolled out a

498
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: size more suitable for a for adult females and children.

499
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: Another thing worth noting here too, is that newer forms

500
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: of sex toys are created specifically for sharing between couples,

501
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: so it's not necessarily male oriented. But here's the thing.

502
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 1: They're either marketed to couples or two men, not directly

503
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: to women, even though, as Devlin says, women are the

504
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: ones primarily using sex toys. So sex technology is definitely

505
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: being created from a dominant heterosexual male perspective here. And

506
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: even if sex spots aren't conscious, they're externally made to

507
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: look like people, right uh, specifically women who are owned

508
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: by heterosexual men. So maybe if we thought broader about

509
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: our sex spots, we could alleviate these long running human

510
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: problems the same way I like to think of it,

511
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: looking back to the vibrator and how it basically changed

512
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: completely like the way that medicine was approaching things like hysteria. Yeah,

513
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: I mean it comes down to the fact that you

514
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: can you can go out to buy a sex um

515
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: toy and you can get something, Yes, it definitely looks

516
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: like a replica of a human body part, but you

517
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: can also get things that can easily be mistaken for

518
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: other household gadgets totally um. For instance, I U I

519
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: travel with an arrow press, which is a coffee making device,

520
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: but it is a cylindrical gadget. It's like a like

521
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: a a French press that like is uh compartmentalized. Yeah,

522
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: It's basically like a plastic cylinder with a plunger that

523
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: goes in it and to press the coffee out the

524
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: other side. And I travel with it because it's a

525
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: great way to ensure good coffee on the go. But

526
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: it inevitably looks like something like it could be some

527
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: sort of sexual when it's getting scanned through t s. A. Yeah,

528
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: our dogs have these toys called go Nut. The company

529
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: is called go Nuts, uh, and they make these like

530
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: really sturdy rubbery dog chew toys. Because I've got two

531
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: pit bull mixes, so they just like destroy anything I

532
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: give them. And one of them is like a long

533
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: shaft like looking thing and the other one looks like

534
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: a doughnut. And the day that they got sent to

535
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: my wife's office, you know, she she works for a

536
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: big company security screens all the mail that goes through,

537
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: and she's just laughing. She's like, can you imagine with

538
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: the security people downstairs think as this stuff is going

539
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: through their X ray machine. The good news here though,

540
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: is that this all means plausible deniability for any actual

541
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: sex device that has some degree of of of design

542
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: ambiguity about it. Now, in two thousand and ten, there

543
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: was a Dutch paper that came out and this was

544
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: written for the United Nations, and it was titled gender

545
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: Dimensions of Product Design and that it highlighted a quote

546
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: male gender bias in mini tech products and as well

547
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 1: as just a disconnect from the view of gender as

548
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: a spectrum. Uh, and that observationally, um, all of this

549
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: is influenced by biology, culture, and situation. So even I

550
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: guess the idea here is that even if you get

551
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: beyond the fact that it's it's largely men designing technology

552
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: for men or men designing technology for women, there's also

553
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: not necessarily that nuanced an idea of what what constitutes

554
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: gender in the human reality. Yeah, and you know, male

555
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: thinking has dominated the development of TVs and GPS devices,

556
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: so can we really expect anything better from physical and

557
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: conceptual design for sexual robotic systems? And then we've got

558
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: David Levy here, uh, and he I'm gonna let you

559
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: introduce this, but man, he wrote this really fascinating pieces.

560
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: It seems like He's written multiple pieces specifically about ethics

561
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: and robots. Yeah, this guy, this would be a good

562
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: place if you want to do a deeper dive into

563
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: some of these topics. That he's a British author, chess

564
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: master and CEO of Intelligent Toys Limited, uh and he

565
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: wrote about much of these issues in the Ethics of

566
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: Robot Prostitutes from his UH that's a featured in the

567
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: book Robot Ethics, published in two thousand eleven, and he

568
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: argued that sex spots only really become a problem when

569
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: they're bestowed with artificial consciousness, thus elevating them from mere

570
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: artifact to something more something at least mimicking personhood. Yeah.

571
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: So the gist here of Levy's argument is that as

572
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: long as sex spots are artifacts without any artificial consciousness,

573
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: there's no ethical implications and having sex with them or

574
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: using them for prostitution. Now, if we go back, I

575
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: would imagine Dr Kathleen Richardson would take umbradge with that.

576
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: But he says, you know, as long as there's no

577
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: artificial consciousness, we're okay. But if they do have a consciousness,

578
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: then that's when we get into llegal and ethical implications.

579
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: And not just for ourselves. But then we've got to

580
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: think about the robots. Do they get rights? Do they

581
00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: have legal and ethical rights that are implied by their consciousness? Yeah,

582
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: this isn't in This is a whole can of worms

583
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: here because on one hand, it gets into the whole

584
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: question of what is consciousness? We can't even define what

585
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: it is for humans, how do we define it in robots?

586
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: And then it makes you ask questions about any and

587
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: everything where there's a potential like faking of consciousness, Like

588
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: when do I start have when I have to start

589
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: becoming concerned about MPC characters and video games virtual individuals,

590
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: Like if you have if you have an MPC in

591
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: a video game that like it has a very realistic

592
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: betrayal to your your violence and you're you know, running

593
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: around gun toting whatever the behaviors in the video game.

594
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: Like at what point does it become kind of creepy?

595
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: That's essentially I think the argument that West World tries

596
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: to make a season right, Yeah, like insert Westworld is

597
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: as potential commentary on that question. One one more thought

598
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: on this, UH was reading an article Indian magazine and

599
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: this is a sex spot slaves sociologist Lee Reich has

600
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: this excellent quote. But and if sex spots are not

601
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: currently conscious, they do have the external markings of personhood,

602
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: and we are programming them to be person alike. Indeed,

603
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,479
Speaker 1: we are programming them to be like a specific type

604
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: of person, the type of woman who can be owned

605
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 1: by a heterosexual man. So now we've heard many of

606
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: the arguments against sex spots. When we've set up kind

607
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: of where we're at with the technology, let's take a

608
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: quick break, and when we get back, we're gonna come

609
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: back in on this and we're gonna talk about the

610
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: argument for sex spots and how they could be beneficial

611
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: to humanity. All Right, we're back, so uh, in this

612
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: next little bit, we're going to talk about the victimization

613
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: reduction argument for sex spots, And just a quick warning,

614
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: we're going to briefly discuss pedophilia here, So if you

615
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: really don't want to hear that, you know, skip ahead

616
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: a little bit on your device. We're we're gonna discuss

617
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: it with decorum here. But it does play a role

618
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: in this discussion. So a point of contentions, as referenced already,

619
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: is the argument that a robotic sex spot would absorb

620
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: the violence and abuse that a human would otherwise suffer,

621
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: and this would apply to both will really to to

622
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: all individuals male, female, or a child or I've also

623
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: seen the argument, uh for animals as well. So if

624
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: you could have a robot stand in and absorb that abuse,

625
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: like better a robot than an actual human like that,

626
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: that's a problematic argument. Yeah, but that is an argument

627
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: that some people make, right. I don't think there are

628
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: many people out there who would who would argue with

629
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: the statement that if a robot could suffer something rather

630
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: than a human that would be preferable. Well, depending on

631
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: whether or not it has consciousness. Yeah, well then then

632
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: we get into that whole can of worms. But there's

633
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: a as I say, it's it's a problematic argument, but

634
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: it's it's one worth discussing, especially as it relates to

635
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: people with pedophilic impulses. Um. There's a great deal of

636
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: work that is on into this topic over the years,

637
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: and we could easily do a whole episode on it,

638
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: though it would be rather down or of an episode.

639
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: There's no known medical or psychiatric cure for pedophilia, and

640
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 1: our methods of dealing with such individuals as often crude,

641
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: but we do have men such as Shin Takaji, who's

642
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: abuse a Japanese man profiled in the in the Atlantic

643
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,439
Speaker 1: in two thousand sixteen. And this is a guy who

644
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: struggles with an attraction to children as well as the

645
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: knowledge the resolve that his attraction is just incompatible with reality.

646
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: And that's the ultimate tragedy here, right, is that these

647
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: are individuals who are born with this this drive, this inclination,

648
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: and it's completely incompatible with our world is it's completely reprehensible.

649
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: And some of these individuals realize this enter and do

650
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: not act on their impulses. So what um, what this

651
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: man know what to to is has been working on

652
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: is creating sex dolls look like children, shifting them out

653
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: around the world to individuals who claim to need them.

654
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: But because what are the other options. There's cognitive behavioral therapy,

655
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: there's chemical castration, but a two thousand seven meta analysis

656
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: from the Mayo Clinic found that no current method can

657
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: actually quote alter the pedophiles basic sexual orientation toward children. Right,

658
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: So you end up with this argument, which is sort

659
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: of like, if you have these child sex spots, is

660
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: that a safer outlet for pedophiles or the the sort

661
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: of flip side to that, is, is that going to

662
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: aggravate their sense of frustration so that they act out

663
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: on real human beings even more right, And there's no

664
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: evidence to show that his approach works, but it is

665
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: difficult to gauge because things I already mentioned. There's a

666
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: lot of research, but a lot of the research is

667
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 1: based on actual offenders, not people who managed to stay

668
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: off impulse is. But what research there is tends to

669
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: imply that such a doll might have really a reinforcing effect. Now,

670
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: of course, there are several different categories for pedophiles, but

671
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: a University of Toronto forensic psychologist and sexologist Michael Setto,

672
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: speculates that there might be two broader distinctions among pedophiles.

673
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: So for one group, a doll or robot might serve

674
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,479
Speaker 1: to keep them from seeking out shop pornography or become

675
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: abusers themselves. For others, though, it just might aggravate their impulses. Yeah,

676
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: so this this is very problematic. Uh, and I think

677
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: to like, I'm imagining you, the listener, are probably struggling

678
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: with one concept here that that we're sort of it's

679
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: sort of like the unspoken thing in the room, right,

680
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: which is the idea that pedophilia is inherent. It's not.

681
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: It's natural and it's part of this person's you know, biology,

682
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: and not something that's learned. And uh, you know, either way, though,

683
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: the research shows that it is different extremely difficult or

684
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: if not impossible to cure in the individuals. So so

685
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: what do you do. We're left without the technology of

686
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: the medical expertise to quote unquote fix someone like this.

687
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: Then does that mean that a robotic doll would have

688
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: a place? And I have to say, you know, like

689
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: as sort of creepy as it is to read about

690
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: two Kagi, at least seems to be taking his impulses

691
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: and doing something productive with them, right, at least he's

692
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: trying to like turn it around, uh, into something that

693
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: has a benefit I guess to society, or at least

694
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 1: reduces danger to society. Um. But when you, like you

695
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: read about in this Atlantic article his workshop. He's got

696
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: this mountain workshop that's up in the woods, and all

697
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: of his employees have to be former military, specifically because

698
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: of the kind of chemicals that he's using in order

699
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: to create like, um, like more realistic skin. Uh. And

700
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: we should talk about this ceremony. So apparently because they're Japanese. Uh,

701
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: there's the special ceremony that sort of along the lines

702
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: of Shinto animism that's performed for the dolls, specifically at

703
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 1: a shrine when their owners don't want them anymore because

704
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: they think of them as having I don't know if

705
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: soul isn't the right word, but but that there is

706
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: some kind of essence to them that you don't just

707
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: take this thing and throw it in the trash. Yeah,

708
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: he says in the article quote it's a common belief

709
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: in Japan that dolls are mirrors, that dolls show their

710
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: owners true self. So, again, a problematic scenario to look at,

711
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: but one that that is core to both the arguments

712
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: for and against uh sex robots. Right, and then this

713
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: leads us right back to Dr Kate Devlin, who was,

714
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: you know, the person who originally argued against the case

715
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: against sex robots. Yeah, and this brings us into what

716
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 1: I think is the most the most fascinating area, uh,

717
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about here today, and that's

718
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: the theory of the ankle. So she argues that sex

719
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: spots would essentially be sex toys that benefit from machine

720
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: learning and bio feedback and She also points out that

721
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: despite all of our sci fi visions of humanoid sex robots,

722
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: there's no reason they these things would need to have

723
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: a human form or a human face. Again, we've already

724
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: as we've already said, a great many sex toys do

725
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: not even look like parts of a human, much less

726
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: a human being. Um. She She points out specifically that

727
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: for female females, there is I think it's called the

728
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: rabbit is is a vibrator device that does not look

729
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: like a part of the male or female anatomy. And

730
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 1: then the flesh light, which we already mentioned. There apparently

731
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 1: some models that do look like replicas of human of

732
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: human anatomy, but others that don't, others that have more

733
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: fantastic or abstract appearances. So you could put these together,

734
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: and you could easily imagine a sexual robot that either

735
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: does not look like a gendered human or even like

736
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: maybe looks like a spider or something. You know, yeah, yeah,

737
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: like it could it could sort of be anything that

738
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: could be like a rumba. Yeah, rumba might be something.

739
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: I don't know why I was going this way, but

740
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: like somebody might particularly want like a kind of whale,

741
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: like a like a smallish whale. Yeah, And I mean

742
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: the thing is we can say, oh that's propellant. Who

743
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: would want to have, you know, sexual contact with an

744
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: inhuman machine. But again, we are already doing it. The

745
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 1: market research shows that the individuals have been using non

746
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: human sexual machines for some time now, so it's not

747
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: out of keeping with human behavior. And so there's a

748
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: lot of applications here that Devil is saying, right, like,

749
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 1: we could use this to treat a lot of different

750
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: ailments that humans are suffering from. That's right. So there's

751
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: the treatment of sex offenders, which we've already touched on, UH,

752
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: couples therapy, which I think is interesting. You made a

753
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: point earlier about so many of the current devices are

754
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: made for for a couple to uh to use together,

755
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 1: sometimes across fast distances. Yeah. Then this is a big one.

756
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: The restoration of sexual confidence following trauma and or injury. Now,

757
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: this is a topic we touched on some in our

758
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: our episode that we did where we interviewed Mary Roach

759
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: about about the surgical repair of genitalia, specifically soldiers who

760
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: have suffered, you know, grievous wounds to that area of

761
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: the academy that's an episode we should definitely put in

762
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: the links on the landing page because it's related. Yeah,

763
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: and uh and and indeed, I believe Walter Reed Hospital

764
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: came up in that episode as well. They have a

765
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: sexual health and intimacy service that focuses on education and therapy. Uh.

766
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: And there's a great Atlantic article about this from last

767
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: year that focuses on the broader topic. But but the

768
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: author points out that the department in question features quote

769
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: de facto sex classes that include sex toys aimed at

770
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: stimulating different parts of the body. So the main aim

771
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: here is individuals who have experienced genital or spinal cord injuries. Uh.

772
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: They may have lost their ability to have an orgasm themselves,

773
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: and they have to adapt to their new bodies and

774
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: a new approach to physical intimacy with with their spouse

775
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: or with you know, with with new relationships in their lives. Now,

776
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: in this case, we're talking specifically about veterans who are

777
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: maybe lost a limb or something like that, or or

778
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: but there's there's some cases where sex therapy like this

779
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: is needed for other people as well. Yeah. And indeed,

780
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: also memory impairing injuries and just basic trauma that stems

781
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: from combat can disrupt an individual sex lift. So you

782
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: need not even have a physical injury for this kind

783
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: of therapy to be necessary. And so the question is

784
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: could a sex robot aid in this kind of of

785
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 1: work as well. Now, Delvin also hits on general sex

786
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: therapy and says that, you know, VR therapy is already

787
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 1: a big deal. And she also mentions that VR therapy

788
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: is already already a thing and it's only going to

789
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: become more of a of a big deal in the future.

790
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: And uh. And then there's this idea of the use

791
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: of of sex spots to potentially a allow individuals to

792
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 1: explore gender or sexual orientation or just sexuality um as

793
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: a whole. And in this the role of the sex

794
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: spot would very closely mimic the role of a sex surrogate.

795
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: So this is a thing that already exists. Uh, and

796
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 1: you can look this up. Uh, this is not prostitution.

797
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: Surrogates are members of the International Professional Surrogates Association, and

798
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: they only work with people who have been referred to

799
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: them by psychotherapist. According to an interview in the two

800
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 1: thousand three Salon article, I was a middle aged version

801
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: Los Angeles surrogate partner Dr Vina Blanchard. Uh. She works

802
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: generally works with older versions. They account for fifty of

803
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: her practice. And these patients are, you know, are men

804
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: who have encountered limiting obstacles to experiencing sex. They didn't

805
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: develop the interpersonal skills necessary, etcetera. And the exact reasons,

806
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,720
Speaker 1: you know, very quite a bit, encompassing everything from extreme

807
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: shyness to history of sexual abuse. They're often plagued by

808
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: feelings of shame and that they need someone to help

809
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 1: them break through it all. All right, So I've got

810
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: a personal story here that I can absolutely see applications focus. Okay, Uh,

811
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: I had a nightmarish temp job in my early twenties.

812
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: I don't think I've told you about this before. Um So,

813
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: I was tempting in my early twenties. This was when

814
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: I was living in Boston, and one of my assignments

815
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: was to work for a week for a psychotherapist whose

816
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: job it was to basically review and interview sex offenders

817
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: and decide whether or not they should be released from

818
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: prison into the general population, like whether or not their

819
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 1: sentence was was up they had been quote unquote reformed,

820
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: and the job that was assigned to me, was to

821
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: literally this was a while ago. I literally listened to

822
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: cassette tapes that they would record of their sessions and

823
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: inscribe everything. And so I did this for a week

824
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 1: straight in the middle of a very cold winter in Boston.

825
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: It's a long commute. It was in Quincy, and uh wow,

826
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: like it was just like getting like this toxic sludge

827
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: dumped into your head, you know. And I remember that

828
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: last day, like knowing it was over, just standing there

829
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, waiting for the shuttle

830
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: to pick me up to take me to the train

831
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: and just crying. Uh. And so I think about you know,

832
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 1: not not just virgins or or maybe pedophiles or even

833
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 1: veterans who need some help with you know, these potentially

834
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: debilitating sexual I don't know issues that they're having, but

835
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: but all of this stuff is it's very real in

836
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: my head based on that one week experience. Yeah, yeah,

837
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: I mean that sounds like it definitely definitely, I mean

838
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 1: I had an impact on your psyche to have to

839
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: absorb all that. Yeah, yeah, but it Yeah, I can

840
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: see that the definitely applications here as well. Now surrogates,

841
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: as we've been talking about their their intimacy coaches and therapists,

842
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 1: and they don't always have sex with clients. So there

843
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: is much about imparting relationship skills, providing human combassion, and

844
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: also just creating an open, honest line of communication, breaking

845
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: through in the case of especially in the case of

846
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: the visions, breaking through the shame. And I can see

847
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: where this could this could definitely be an area for

848
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: sex robots in the future. You know, So sexual abuse

849
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: or any kind of sort of sexual dysfunction as we

850
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 1: see it, especially in sort of psychoanalytical terms, right are,

851
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: seems to be something that sort of breeds a vicious cycle. Uh,

852
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 1: you know, like the people who are hurt or tend

853
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: to then go on to hurt others. So in this instance,

854
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 1: like I'm I'm seeing, like the surrogates, we wouldn't want

855
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: to be in that situation. But the sex robots, again,

856
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: as long as they're not artificially conscious, they could serve

857
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: a role to sort of put a halt to that

858
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: vicious circle. Yeah. Yeah. And and also just the idea

859
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: you think about this idea that there are people out

860
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: there who have trouble developing relationships that they don't have

861
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: the social tools perhaps, or there there's some sort of

862
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: trauma holding them back from having the kind of interpersonal

863
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: relationships that can lead to sexual contact when they are

864
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: their individual Like should they should they just live out

865
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: their lives without sexual contact? Are they aren't? Do they

866
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: have like on some level, do they have a right

867
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: to have sex with a robotic device or machine or

868
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: robotic humanoid if such a thing can be made available

869
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: and within an ethical framework that works well. And let's remember,

870
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: let's go back to what we said earlier, which is

871
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: that sexuality and sex are part of the human condition

872
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: and our brains are absolutely affected by them. So why

873
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: I not have this technology that would allow those people

874
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: to experience the human condition like the rest of us. Yeah,

875
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,879
Speaker 1: and this this all forces me to sort of try

876
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: to imagine this future sex spot. Like on one hand,

877
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: imagine like a purely the therapeutic one. So you have

878
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: to go to a therapist, to human therapist to be

879
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: you know, prescribed your sex spot and they come to

880
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: you and it's not about just simply fulfilling some physical

881
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 1: need or even an emotional need, but allowing a transformation,

882
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: like getting you to a point to where you are

883
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: comfortable with your own sexuality, comfortable, comfortable to human sexuality

884
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 1: in general, that you are more capable of of healthy

885
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: human sexual relationships. And on the other hand, like a

886
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: purely hedonistic level, a mechanical room. But or spider that

887
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: just when when called, you know, crawls out of a

888
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: box in your closet and does what needs to be

889
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: done and sleep at night. Right, that's very trans metropolitan,

890
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: and I'm imaginating expider Jerusalem has something like that and

891
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 1: as closet. Yeah, yeah, but not too far from you know,

892
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: other topics that we've talked about in the past, especially

893
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: when you add in sort of like a bioengineering into

894
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: the mix. All right, So there you have it. Sex

895
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: spots again, something we just see time and time again

896
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: in sci fi. That's really become part of our pop culture.

897
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: But I don't think most of us take time to

898
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 1: really break it down and think about the components, think

899
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: about the pros and the cons. Certainly some of these

900
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: I thought about before, but other aspects, especially the whole

901
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 1: therapeutic aspect, I'd never really given any consideration. I think

902
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: with the surge of Westworld last year that like this

903
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: kind of thing has become maybe water cooler talk but

904
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: not to the extent of like the research that we

905
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: did here really looking at like the pros and cons

906
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: and how it's beneficial or how the theory, the philosophical

907
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: approach to it, of how it could potentially sort of

908
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,439
Speaker 1: show the worst of humanity as well. That's the part

909
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 1: I think that like West World's really honing in on.

910
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: But I don't know, like has West World I can't

911
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: really remember, and I don't think this is spoilers, but like,

912
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: was there an instance of somebody who visited the park

913
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: who needed that kind of therapeutic help and going to

914
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,399
Speaker 1: one of the brothels. I feel like it might have

915
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: come up just um, you know, in the margins, but

916
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: I don't remember it being a major character of all

917
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: it because because ultimately, like how how dramatic is that? Right? Right?

918
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: You want you wanted to explore the cases of abuse

919
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: or the cases of love, because that those are the

920
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: two big trance we see either someone either is abusive

921
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: to a feminine sexual robot or they fall in love

922
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: with it. There's not a lot of in obviously, there's

923
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: a lot more space in the human condition for sexual

924
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: conduct to take place as a broader spectrum, So it

925
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: seems like it should be present as well in our

926
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: consideration of sex button. Maybe that's something Season two will

927
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,280
Speaker 1: get into. I mean, I'm not sure. All right, Well,

928
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: everyone listening to this episode is a human being, so

929
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone has thoughts on the current technology, uh

930
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: where we're headed with it, as well as all the

931
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: various fantastic and and maybe even more hard boiled sci

932
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: fi visions of what sex spots might consist of. Yeah,

933
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: and we hope we didn't, you know, disturb you too

934
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 1: much with getting into some graphic territory here, but this

935
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: seemed like a topic that was worth really diving into

936
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:28,879
Speaker 1: and relevant to not only popular culture but modern technology.

937
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: All right. Now, as we close out here, we've been

938
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 1: we we like to highlight various nonprofits and uh and

939
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: and helpful organizations. Given the some of the subject matter

940
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 1: we've talked about here, we just wanted to mention rain

941
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: as are ai n N there, the Rate Abuse and

942
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: Incest National Network. You can find them online, but you

943
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: can also call them two seven on your phone at

944
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: one eight hundred six five six hope or one eight

945
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: hundred six five six four six seven three. And also

946
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:00,280
Speaker 1: we're still celebrating tripod month. Here at how stuff We're works.

947
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with what that is. Podcasts around

948
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,439
Speaker 1: the world are sharing one another's feeds, and the way

949
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: that they're doing that is on social media, letting everybody

950
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: know what they're listening to using the hashtag tripod. That's

951
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 1: t r y pod uh. And the one that I'd

952
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,399
Speaker 1: like to include here is I just got back from

953
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: south By Southwest and I saw a couple of live

954
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 1: performances of the podcast Recode Decode uh, and they did

955
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: some pretty cool stuff that I think if you're a

956
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: fan of stuff to blow your mind, you might be

957
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: interested in. Yeah, and hey, you get on social media

958
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: everyone out there and use the the hashtag tripod with

959
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,280
Speaker 1: a Y to just list some of your favorite podcast

960
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: I'm not saying list us you can you want, but

961
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 1: also listed the other things that you listen to, the

962
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: other shows that get you through the day. We've had

963
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: a couple of people who have who have done some

964
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: really nice hashtag tripods for us. Specifically, I've seen some

965
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: really cool stuff on Instagram where they take pictures of

966
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: hell they listen to us. Yeah cool, that's a that's

967
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: a clever idea. All right, In the meantime, head on

968
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's

969
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: what you'll find all the podcast episodes. The landing page

970
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: for this episode, you will find links out to our

971
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: various social media accounts such as Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, Instagram,

972
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,240
Speaker 1: and who knows what else? Who knows what? The future

973
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: will break? Yeah, and if you just want to write

974
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: us the old fashioned way, we are at blow the

975
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: mind at how stuff works dot com. Well more on

976
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff

977
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: works dot com