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Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: and them all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or

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Speaker 1: do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy. Zeph and Beast

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Speaker 1: start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Jamie, it just me nine tih Dracula. Bello, Caitlin,

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Speaker 2: It's hello.

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Speaker 3: The Minions worked for Dracula. Oh don't you remember from

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Speaker 3: the opening of Mini, I do remember the Minion has

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Speaker 3: worked for real people and fake people.

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Speaker 2: Yes, wow, incredible anyway today.

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Speaker 3: Because I didn't, I didn't. I politely refused to do

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Speaker 3: the voice. I wish there was a way to I

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Speaker 3: love like thee the like laugh lines that Anthony Hopkins

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Speaker 3: gets where He's like, I know you're hurting right now,

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Speaker 3: but we have to cut your wife's head off right now.

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Speaker 3: It's an emergency. You're like Jesus, Welcome to the back

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Speaker 3: soil Ast. My name is Jamie Loftis.

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Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Deronte, also known as If listeners

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Speaker 2: listen to the Daily Zeitgeist, you might know me as

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Speaker 2: my anagram alias nine tit Dracula.

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Speaker 3: Truly the best. There's a lot of good ones, but

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Speaker 3: that is the best.

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Speaker 2: It's a really good well, I prefer Lauren d Titanic.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's that is pretty good. That sounds like

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Speaker 3: like a Carmen san Diego style ioas. But for the

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Speaker 3: sake of today, nine tit Dracula will do.

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Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, because we are covering Bram Stoker's Dracula nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety two. This is the Bechdel Cast, our podcast where

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Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel test as a jumping off point. Which what's that?

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Speaker 2: Should we say?

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Speaker 3: Well? Sure, why not? Because the creator of the Bechtel

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Speaker 3: test is now our dearest friend friend, so for her

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Speaker 3: because she needs our help. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The Bechel's hast was created by Quirker to miss Alison

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Speaker 3: Bechdel with her friend Liz Wallace. It's so weird to

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Speaker 3: do this in person. Often called the Bechdel Wallace Test.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of versions of the test. The version

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Speaker 3: we use is thus, there are two characters with names

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Speaker 3: of a marginalized gender who speak to each other about

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Speaker 3: something other than a man for two lines of dialogue.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like it is kind of weirdly relevant

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Speaker 3: in today's episode because It was originally created specifically in

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Speaker 3: response to a lack of queer relationships between women on screen.

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Speaker 3: I feel like there is a for me, a very

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Speaker 3: erotic relationship between women in this very film. They kiss,

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Speaker 3: they literally kiss. That's erotic. Famously, not always, but in

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Speaker 3: this case very yes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, And like you mentioned, Jamie, we are

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Speaker 2: sitting in person. Very rare for us to do an

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Speaker 2: in person record, but it's a special occasion because our

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Speaker 2: guest is visiting from another country and you know them already.

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Speaker 2: They are a drag artist known for RuPaul's Drag Race

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Speaker 2: UK season one. They're the host of the podcast Camp Classics,

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Speaker 2: and you remember them from our episodes on show Girls

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Speaker 2: and Jawbreaker. It's Crystal.

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Speaker 4: Hi, I've crushed oceans of dives to be here.

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Speaker 2: You really did, I literally did, literally did?

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Speaker 5: Hi?

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Speaker 4: Hello, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: Actually see Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Likewise, this is it is kind of intense, this in

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Speaker 4: person thing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, speaking out about the eye contact, I know

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Speaker 3: you're so beautiful. This is great. It is. I like

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Speaker 3: that we only record in person when someone is specifically

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Speaker 3: visiting from England, because we did that with Kate a

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Speaker 3: couple of months ago as well.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 3: I mean even just the three movies we've covered with

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Speaker 3: you all very campy movies. So before we get into

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Speaker 3: your history with the movie, tell us about the podcast.

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Speaker 4: Oh, thank you. Yeah. So I've started a podcast called

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Speaker 4: camp Classics, which I guess is kind of like your podcasts,

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Speaker 4: but a queer lens we're looking at. We call it

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Speaker 4: a thoughtful podcast about stupid movies. So we're covering kind

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Speaker 4: of queer coded and explicitly queer movies and kind of

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Speaker 4: looking at them through a queer lens. This movie really

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Speaker 4: qualifies as a camp classic. We've got We typically look

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Speaker 4: at things from four categories to determine whether or not

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Speaker 4: something's a camp classic. You look at it and you say,

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Speaker 4: is it any queer joy? Does it have an ongoing legacy?

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Speaker 4: Stupid fun? And underdog flop vibes? Those are typical categories.

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Speaker 4: So this movie ticks some boxes Foreshore.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 4: And also, I just think whenever vampires are involved, you're

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Speaker 4: probably in camp territory.

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Speaker 2: Almost always.

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Speaker 3: Almost we've been covered I mean, we did interview with

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Speaker 3: a vampire last year, We've just recovered Twilight, and now,

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Speaker 3: I mean, vampires are on the brain. Centers just came

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Speaker 3: out we've all seen Sinners.

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Speaker 4: Not a particularly camp movie.

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Speaker 3: I'd say, actually, no, no idea.

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Speaker 2: It was the flop vibes are not there's no but

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Speaker 2: it is horny, and that's also a prerequisite, I think

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Speaker 2: for a vampire mode.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's yeah, it's sexy. It's sexy. That movie

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Speaker 4: was so good.

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Speaker 3: It was so good. I really want to see I

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Speaker 3: need to see it a second time.

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Speaker 4: Everything I consume right now just seems to involve vampires,

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Speaker 4: which I'm not mad about.

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Speaker 3: They're back. I feel like whatever cultural cycle like that

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Speaker 3: we fell out of in the late two thousands, we're back.

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Speaker 3: And I think that the media is kind of better

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Speaker 3: now too, which is kind of cool.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going through because No Saratu also came

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Speaker 3: out recently. I was going through the ranked Dracula slash

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Speaker 3: No Saratu because Nosaracha is basically just a Dracula knockoff,

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Speaker 3: and there have been Yeah, the two thousands was not

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Speaker 3: a great time for Dracula. I didn't realize that Geord

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Speaker 3: Butler had played Drus.

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Speaker 4: I am desperate to see Dracula two thousands.

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Speaker 3: Okay, have you seen I have it up his audition tape.

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Speaker 3: He's wearing like a Chris Angel wig.

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Speaker 4: It's really wow.

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Speaker 3: It's really I love Geord Butler. He's not afraid to

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Speaker 3: be really bad in the movie. I love it.

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Speaker 4: Gary Oldman isn't dead, but he is rolling in his grave.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Gary Oldman could never wear this wig, and

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Speaker 3: neither could try. No one should wear this wig. I

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Speaker 3: love it. I love it. But yeah, it seems like

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Speaker 3: the twenty twenties have been good to vampires so far.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, apparently Dracula is the most adapted piece of media ever.

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Speaker 2: Yes, making like I read something like seven hundred appearances

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Speaker 2: in different adaptations, plays, movies, TV shows.

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Speaker 3: There are so many different I mean, obviously count Orlock

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Speaker 3: is a Dracula ripoff. And I say obviously I had

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Speaker 3: to check because I you know, so you never know

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Speaker 3: who's ripping off who. Sure, but count Orlock is a

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Speaker 3: Dracula rip off. But there's also there's like the Monster,

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Speaker 3: the Universal Monster version, which is kind of like stripped

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Speaker 3: of context Dracula and he's just a weird guy. There's

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Speaker 3: this Dracula who the like book Cannon Dracula. There's Hotel

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Speaker 3: Transylvania Dracula.

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Speaker 5: That's my niece's favorite of course count Oh my god,

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Speaker 5: see everyone's got their Dracula countcula.

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Speaker 3: There's why did children have so many vampires? That that's alarming?

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Speaker 2: And then you've got things like Blacula and just all

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Speaker 2: different manner of adaptations there were.

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Speaker 3: This is from a Vulture list, because I mean their

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Speaker 3: vulture can be counted upon to have a list of

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Speaker 3: this nature. And I celebrate that because I really needed it.

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Speaker 3: This morning I learned about adaptations I hadn't heard of.

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Speaker 3: One that I was like. One I haven't seen but

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Speaker 3: I knew about was Willem Dafoe in Shadow of the Vampire.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, love it, love that movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because isn't that about the making of nos forra Tu?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: And then he was in Knows for a two.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And then you know who else is in Knows for

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Speaker 2: a Tu. Nicholas Holt, who plays Renfield in a different

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Speaker 2: movie starring Nicholas Cage and Nicholas Cage is in a

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Speaker 2: different movie called Vampire's Kiss.

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Speaker 3: Once the Vampire. Wait did I tell my Nicholas Holt

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Speaker 3: story on the show before? I think I already did.

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Speaker 3: It might have been on the Patreoon. Remember tell us, Okay,

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Speaker 3: not to knark out Nicholas Holt, but my friend Cory,

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Speaker 3: friend of the show, Cory lives in Long Beach. Apparently

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Speaker 3: Nicholas Holt lives in Long Beach. Nicholas Holt had two

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Speaker 3: movies in theaters this Christmas. They were Juror Number two

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Speaker 3: and No Forratu. Nicholas Holt goes to first of all,

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Speaker 3: Nicholas Holt AMC STUBBS member kind of Wild.

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Speaker 2: Love It, where he and I are in community together,

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Speaker 2: and please.

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Speaker 3: Don't use this information for evil. Nicholas Holt confirmed STUBS

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Speaker 3: member Corey has gotten in the Long Beach AMC. She

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Speaker 3: knows all the information. Nicholas Holt goes to the Long

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Speaker 3: Beach AMC on Christmas and everyone's like, is he going

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Speaker 3: to see his own movie alone on Christmas? No, He's

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Speaker 3: going to see Sonic three alone on Christmas. And I

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Speaker 3: was like, he's great. I love him and I would

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Speaker 3: be a lifelong fan.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I already thought that man was really sexy, but now.

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Speaker 3: He's like also painfully, like beautiful. I was like, I

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Speaker 3: would do that. I would see Sonic three alone in

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Speaker 3: Long Beach.

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Speaker 4: That's so powerful, especially if you knew you were going

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Speaker 4: to get clocked doing it.

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Speaker 3: Like he walked past two theaters that he was the

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Speaker 3: star of the movie and was like, no, it's gonna

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Speaker 3: be Sonic three for me.

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Speaker 4: No one needs to see Juror number two.

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Speaker 3: I think he's wow. He's so real. He's a Stubs

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Speaker 3: member just like us. He probably could afford a movie theater. Okay, sorry,

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Speaker 3: I'm talking too much. The one Dracula adaptation I learned

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Speaker 3: about that I want to see now it is Dracula

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Speaker 3: Pages from a Virgin's Diary, which is from two thousand

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Speaker 3: and two. It is a silent, black and white film,

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Speaker 3: but it is the only major adaptician at least on

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Speaker 3: this list, that stars an Asian Dracula, and it really

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Speaker 3: hones in on the like the idea of Dracula as

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Speaker 3: the other and also I just like the title Pages

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Speaker 3: from a Virgin's Diary. Anyways, he's ranked number He's the

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Speaker 3: seventh best Dracula. That's pretty high. Wow, that's pretty high. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, shall we get into it with Crystal. What

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Speaker 2: is your relationship with this movie.

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Speaker 4: With Francis Ford Coppola as Bramstoker's Dracula.

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Speaker 2: Yes, as Dracula in general, and of course Francis Ford

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Speaker 2: Coppola of Megalopolis fame.

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Speaker 4: We can.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's not afraid to do a silly one.

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Speaker 3: We know this about him.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he what's that tweet? He came on this movie,

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Speaker 4: broke career in shambles, mad as hell. I feel like

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Speaker 4: that's the story for this movie. I have to embarrassingly

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Speaker 4: admit I have not seen a single other friendsis.

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Speaker 3: That's okay, I just saw The Godfather for this show.

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Speaker 4: Right, I'll get to it. I understand it's supposed to

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Speaker 4: be quite good, so you know, I was surprised.

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Speaker 3: I really, I really came in not wanting to like it.

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Speaker 3: But it is actually quit it's pretty good. I'm the

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Speaker 3: first person to say that.

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Speaker 4: It turns out. Yeah, But this movie, I think I

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Speaker 4: must have seen it as a child, and it terrified

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Speaker 4: the piss out of me. I can still like before

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Speaker 4: I watched this movie again recently and then again this week,

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Speaker 4: I still had that image of Gary Oldman crawling that

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Speaker 4: wall and just I found it so terrifying. For some reason.

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Speaker 4: I watched it again earlier this year and was just

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Speaker 4: obsessed with the campness of it. I had not expected

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Speaker 4: it to be so silly. It really takes a lot

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Speaker 4: of big swings this movie. And then I watched it

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Speaker 4: again this week to prep for this. I've really enjoyed

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Speaker 4: all of my time with this movie.

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Speaker 2: Same same, Yeah, I didn't see it. I didn't see

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Speaker 2: it the whole way through until I think within the

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Speaker 2: past year prior to that. And this is something we've

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Speaker 2: mentioned on the podcast before, but our friend Alex's Horrorthon

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Speaker 2: that he does, it's like a twenty four hour horror

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Speaker 2: movie marathon that he does every year. And I saw

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Speaker 2: it for that one year, probably like seven ish years

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Speaker 2: ago or something like that, except that I wasn't in

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Speaker 2: the room for most of it because I had to

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Speaker 2: like go teach a class.

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Speaker 3: That's how our horrthon goes. I like painted my whole

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Speaker 3: bathroom during Horror Fi one year, right.

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Speaker 2: So I only saw bits and pieces of it, but

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Speaker 2: I was like, what is this movie? Of course I

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Speaker 2: had heard of it before, and I was familiar with

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Speaker 2: different things like Keanu's bad accent and all that kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff, but I had never fully seen it until

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Speaker 2: pretty recently, and I was like, oh my gosh, this

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Speaker 2: is the best. I love it. I'm obsessed. Watched it

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Speaker 2: three times to prep for this.

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Speaker 3: You've you've been like raving about this movie for the

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Speaker 3: last year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm new to it, but I love it

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Speaker 2: the end, Jamie, what about you?

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Speaker 3: I thought, I, this is so embarrassing. I thought I

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Speaker 3: had seen this movie. I was aware of the Kianu

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Speaker 3: accent thing. I was thinking of Gary Oldman's makeup, and

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Speaker 3: I confused it with Ron Perlman Beast from It's a

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Speaker 3: very similar makeup the Linda Hamilton Ron Pearlman series about

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Speaker 3: Beauty and the Beast, where Linda Hamilton plays I think,

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Speaker 3: not Belle but Bell, who's like a lawyer who goes

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Speaker 3: out and hangs in the sewer with Ron Pearlman Beast. Anyways,

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Speaker 3: I thought it was that it wasn't I have seen

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Speaker 3: a lot of that show, but I had not seen this,

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Speaker 3: and I mean, it's like, it's great, it's great. I

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Speaker 3: had read the book in high school and then I

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Speaker 3: was hoping to finish it because I've found an audiobook

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Speaker 3: that stars Alan Cumming as Doctor Seward and Tim Curry

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Speaker 3: as Van Helsing, and so i bought that audiobook and

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Speaker 3: I'm like about halfway through it. It's interesting the like

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Speaker 3: adaptation elements that Francis Ford Coppola ads because he like

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Speaker 3: expands Mina's story by a lot, but in a way

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Speaker 3: that I was like, that's what you did.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's what most of my notes are about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because I mean I appreciated that because I mean,

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Speaker 3: she's not like a straightforward character, but she is, you know,

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Speaker 3: very virtuous and very like observant active, but ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 3: she has brown hair, so she's virtuous. Lucy doesn't have

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Speaker 3: brown hair, so she's cooked. And that's how white woman

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Speaker 3: characters work a lot of the time. Yeah, but yeah, no,

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Speaker 3: I mean it's it's interesting, like how many different reads

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Speaker 3: there are of this. It's really hard to prepare for

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Speaker 3: a Dracula episode because there's so.

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Speaker 4: Much, yeah, other stuff floating around and in the culture,

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Speaker 4: and like, which part do you focus on?

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm really excited to talk about it. The production

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Speaker 3: of this movie is also like interesting. I was showing

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Speaker 3: Caitlin before you got her Crystal. There's a clip of

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Speaker 3: the whole cast playing zip zaps off, which was quite triggering,

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Speaker 3: and they're like seeing Anthony Hopkins, Sir Anthony Hopkins playing

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Speaker 3: zip zaps off. I'm like, that's that's a bridge too far?

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Speaker 4: Was Gary Oldman there because he famously was kind of

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Speaker 4: like absent during production, right, he was just in his

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Speaker 4: tiller getting absolutely shit faced.

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Speaker 3: God, I'm yeah, because Winona like called him out for

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Speaker 3: that years later, thankfully. But I can't tell because they're

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Speaker 3: all wearing, with all due respect, that all the men

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Speaker 3: are wearing the same shapeless nineties outfit. So I really

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Speaker 3: can't tell if he's there or not.

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Speaker 4: Even in this movie, it's sometimes it's hard to tell

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Speaker 4: who's who with these men. They're all kind of saying me, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's what.

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Speaker 2: Happens when you have an all white cast. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: who's that guy?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? And who is, with all due respect, Billy Campbell?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, indeed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take a quick break and then we'll come

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Speaker 2: back for the recap.

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Speaker 3: Billy Campbell is an American film and television actor. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: so there you go.

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Speaker 2: That's who that is. Okay, here is the recap. We

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Speaker 2: open on backstory about Dracula played by disgraced actor Gary Oldman, and.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of incredible, incredible in the not great way.

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Speaker 3: How much this movie's production like bears that out, and

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Speaker 3: how in the nineties, you could just say, like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was a piece of shit on this movie, and

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Speaker 3: that's why I'm so good at acting, and like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, truly. So it's fourteen sixty two in Transylvania and

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Speaker 2: Dracula is a human man at first, and he has

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Speaker 2: a beloved his wife, Elisabetta played by Winona Ryder, who

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Speaker 2: he must leave to go to war because men be

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Speaker 2: going to war and impaling people. And then Elizabetha gets

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Speaker 2: word that Dracula died in battle, so she takes her

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Speaker 2: own life. But he didn't die. That was just like

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Speaker 2: false fake news.

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Speaker 3: This happened to Romeo and Juliet too. Wait to see

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Speaker 3: the body, ladies, wait to see the body.

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Speaker 4: Or just don't kill yourself because is dead.

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Speaker 3: There's so much to live for. Don't die. I'm a man,

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Speaker 3: ye all do respect to your deceased loved ones.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, So Dracula comes back to his dead wife absolutely

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Speaker 2: devastated and infuriated at like the church and the clergy

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Speaker 2: who had like sent him to war. So he denounces God,

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Speaker 2: saying that he's going to rise from his own death.

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Speaker 3: He stabs across the cross start elodes into a cloud

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Speaker 3: of blood, which is awesome.

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Speaker 4: What a cool way to become a vampire.

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Speaker 3: God, I know he really like the mellow drama and

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Speaker 3: this is just oh, it's so good, it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: And so he drinks the blood from the cross and

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Speaker 2: that's how it becomes a little Vampire's such a drama queen. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Then we cut to London eighteen ninety seven. We meet

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Speaker 2: a man named Renfield played by Tom Waits of Shrek

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Speaker 2: two fame.

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Speaker 3: Oh, he plays the.

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Speaker 2: Same more well he played. I guess he plays Captain

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Speaker 2: hook Slash. He sings one of his songs in the

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Speaker 2: bar that Shrek goes too.

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Speaker 3: That's important, yeah, in some way, which kind of makes

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Speaker 3: him the most famous actor in the movie. Indeed. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So Renfield has been institutionalized, so another man is

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Speaker 2: tasked with taking over his work. This is Jonathan Harker

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Speaker 2: played by Keanu Reeves doing a very good and very

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Speaker 2: authentic English accent. No, no, oh, I know, poor poor guy.

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Speaker 2: I read that he like the reason he sounds so

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Speaker 2: stilted and that he's like doing a bad job is

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Speaker 2: because he was trying so hard to make it perfect,

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Speaker 2: and Coppola was just like just relax a bit buzz.

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Speaker 3: Less up, buddy, and he's like, I can't. Yeah. So

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Speaker 3: he Coppola does still say very no way. I have

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Speaker 3: a fun quote about him. He said this was like

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Speaker 3: ten years ago. He said, like, Keanu is still a

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Speaker 3: prince in my eyes.

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Speaker 4: He saw nice.

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Speaker 3: He said, he tried so hard. That was the problem.

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Speaker 3: He wanted to do it perfectly, and in trying to

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Speaker 3: do it perfectly, it came off as stilted. I tried

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Speaker 3: to get him to just relax with it and not

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Speaker 3: do it so fastidiously. So maybe I wasn't as critical

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Speaker 3: of him, but that's because I like him so much

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Speaker 3: to this day. He's a prince in my eyes, which

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Speaker 3: because his character is not a prince. He's just saying that.

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Speaker 2: But Keanu is a prince.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. He belongs in i'd say modern movies or maybe

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Speaker 4: in the future movies.

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Speaker 3: He does have a face for the future. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 3: and he and.

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Speaker 4: He does silent and brooty well, but he doesn't necessarily a.

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Speaker 2: Period piece is not for him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And he also said that he Coplo said he

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Speaker 3: cast Keanu in that part because he was looking for

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Speaker 3: like a hot guy of the moment, because the part

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Speaker 3: of Jonathan kind of famously sucks, which no, I mean

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Speaker 3: for Nicholas Holt that we could. But Jonathan. I think

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Speaker 3: Jonathan's a really funny character because he's just like white,

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Speaker 3: not going it through the most uncomfort I really liked

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Speaker 3: it in The New Nose for Autu too.

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Speaker 4: We're just getting cooked.

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Speaker 3: He's just getting he's getting like or just like that

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Speaker 3: first dinner where it's like this like absurd looking guy

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Speaker 3: being like, okay, so you live with me now, and

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Speaker 3: he's like, yeah, yes, okay, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: I like Jonathan, he acts like I went in that situation. Okay, okay, okay,

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Speaker 3: I've been kidnapped.

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Speaker 2: Anyway. So Jonathan Harker is about to go to Transylvania

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Speaker 2: to close some real estate deals of Count Dracula, who

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Speaker 2: has been buying property up all over London, although of

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Speaker 2: course no one knows that this Dracula is a vampire.

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Speaker 2: They just think he's like an eccentric rich dude. Jonathan

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Speaker 2: technically is, yeah, in addition to being a vampire. So

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Speaker 2: Jonathan says goodbye to his fiancee Mina played by also

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Speaker 2: Winona Ryder, who is also doing a very good English accent.

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Speaker 3: She's done an English accent a fair cause heidden, what's

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00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 3: the movie Colonial England? And oh, Crucible, but I think

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Speaker 3: that had already come out at this point.

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Speaker 2: I asked, I don't know the timeline, but yeah, she's

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Speaker 2: she's doing her best.

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Speaker 1: She is.

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 3: I think her performance is great. The accent is meth

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Speaker 3: but I performances equally, I know.

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Speaker 2: So Jonathan sets off to Dracula's castle in Transylvania, and

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Speaker 2: his journey is as spooky as hell. There's like wols

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Speaker 2: and bats and a creepy carriage driver who sort of

415
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Speaker 2: looks like the alien from the Alien movies, and there's

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Speaker 2: just like all kinds of weird shit. He arrives at

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Speaker 2: the castle and is greeted by Dracula.

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Speaker 4: And which looks like that scary man with a.

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Speaker 2: Yeah there's and then and also not to appearance shame Dracula,

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Speaker 2: but he looks.

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Speaker 3: Like a lot of people that I think it's there's

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Speaker 3: a there's a threshold we can body shame drag we can,

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Speaker 3: and he killed a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: He looks like Emperor Palpatine. And then I've got thinking that, yes,

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Speaker 2: he's got these like two titty lump hairstyle.

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Speaker 3: Which weirdly enough, is how he's described in the book. Oh, like,

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Speaker 3: I think that a lot of what this adaptation it

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Speaker 3: adds a lot of stuff, but it doesn't really take

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Speaker 3: a lot of stuff out, Like the book is really weird.

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Speaker 4: He's a fan of Sailor Moon space buns.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, diabolical Lea.

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Speaker 2: So he's being very weird. Dracula is he's like flinging

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Speaker 2: his sword around, his shadow is walking around independent of

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Speaker 2: his movements, the palms of his hands are furry, you know,

435
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 2: all kinds of weird stuff. And then also Dracula sees

436
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: Jonathan's picture of Mina, who looks a lot like his

437
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: beloved Elizabetta, and he's like, oh, who's that a wooga?

438
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 2: Hey Jonathan, you better stay here for a month. But

439
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 2: don't worry. I'm definitely not going to go and steal

440
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 2: your girlfriend in London.

441
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 3: Right, And he's like, oh, but well, I have you.

442
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 3: Can you write three letters confirming that you're totally okay

443
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 3: that I can just sort of send out every so often.

444
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 3: Is such a dumb ass, I love? And he's like, yeah,

445
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 3: I'll do that, Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, no problem.

446
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 4: Something might be kind of weird about this castle, but well.

447
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 3: I don't want to argue, Okay.

448
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,719
Speaker 2: So meanwhile, back in London, Mina writes in her diary

449
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 2: about how much she missus Jonathan, how she's going to

450
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 2: stay with her friend Lucy while Jonathan is away. And

451
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: Lucy's whole thing is that she is horny.

452
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 3: Horney, so horny, and so you're like, well, of course

453
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 3: I think terrible it's gonna happen to her. But she's

454
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 3: kind of a little polyamorous. She's being like, why can't

455
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 3: I marry three people? I'm like, why can't you? She

456
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 3: has this.

457
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 2: Beautiful polycule of several men who are fawning.

458
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 3: Over her, desperate to give her blood transfusions.

459
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 4: Yes.

460
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 2: One of them is a man from Texas named Quincy

461
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: Morris played by Billy Campbell.

462
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 3: Oh, he's an American actor.

463
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: Oh that's who that is.

464
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 3: Okay, you might have recognized him from American acting.

465
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: Okay.

466
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: So another is a doctor named Jack Seward played by

467
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 2: Richard E. Grant, and then the third is a lawyer

468
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 2: named Arthur Holmewood played by Carrie of saw Fame.

469
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 3: Yes, his most famous role.

470
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 4: Yes.

471
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: And also, by the way, doctor Jack is currently treating

472
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 2: Renfield the man who was driven mad after that recent

473
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: trip to Transylvania. He's eating bugs and carrying on about

474
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 2: his master, who is obviously Dracula. Back at the castle,

475
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 2: Dracula continues to be super weird. He's shaving Jonathan, he's

476
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: licking the blood from his cut.

477
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 4: Apparently this was the scene. Specifically, Gary Alban was completely steamed.

478
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 4: Oh he's been drinking vodka all day. Yes, it's so,

479
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 4: it's so fascinating.

480
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 3: Very scary guy.

481
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, he basically plays that drunk man. Also, and have

482
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 4: you seen slow Horses? No, I think it's him. Yeah,

483
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 4: it's it's him, and he's just plays an alcoholic but anyway, yeah,

484
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 4: he's I do love his performance though. He's so watchable.

485
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 2: He turns in a great performance. And he's also a

486
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: very bad person and two things. Unfortunately, it can be true.

487
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 3: What has what has?

488
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 4: I don't know what he's done.

489
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: He was very very abusive to his wife, his ex wife,

490
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: like the the police got involved. Oh I think it

491
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 2: was like one of those let me just sorry, Okay,

492
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, he was like tremendously physically abusive to his

493
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 2: ex wife. And this was a This this all happened

494
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: after the production of this movie.

495
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: But also, I mean, like you're saying, there's so many

496
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 3: examples during the production of this movie where when on

497
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 3: a Rider was like I just felt super unsafe around him,

498
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: and you know, has sort of like walked those comments back.

499
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 3: But also she had like it just sounded like it

500
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 3: was being around him was awful and like they had

501
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 3: a family relationship, and then she loved Keanu. There's I

502
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 3: have a quote from her as a as a palate cleanser.

503
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 3: This is from a Vanity Fair interview where we Noa

504
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 3: was going over her old journals from this time, where

505
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 3: she said, I have these journals and I just pulled

506
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: one out recently. It was from around the time of Dracula.

507
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 3: The text says, angst angst, angst angst, thank god for Keanu,

508
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: thank God, I'm going to see Keanu. So they're just

509
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 3: they're just besties. And it seems like, I mean, Copla

510
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 3: says he's a prince. It just seems like everyone's looking

511
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 3: forward to seeing Keanu and absolutely dreading seeing Gary Oldman,

512
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 3: who in you know, the press junket for this movie

513
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 3: is like very forthcoming about like, yeah, I was really

514
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 3: fucked up and I would like lean over and whisper

515
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: obscenities to scare people.

516
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 4: And you're just sleeping in a coffin every night.

517
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 3: These really like methody kind of things were, but like,

518
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: you know, method as a means to a use your

519
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 3: co workers. Interestingly, they originally wanted Daniel da Lewis to

520
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,719
Speaker 3: play Dragula. Oh who, I haven't heard of him ever.

521
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 3: Like hurting anyone doing method acting, it seems like there

522
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: is surely there's a way to not hurt people.

523
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 4: Surely you say that, but like I'm trying to think

524
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 4: of someone who's kind of unproblematically method because I don't know.

525
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 4: I mean, the next person that jumps it to mind

526
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 4: is Jared Letto, who, yeah, I guess he also did

527
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 4: that ship on a.

528
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 3: Vampire, But isn't he Jim Carrey did it for a

529
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 3: Man on the Moon when he was playing Andy Kaufman.

530
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 3: There's so many examps, but there are some that are

531
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 3: just like, I haven't heard of means story about danielday Lewis.

532
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 3: I could be wrong, nor have I.

533
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might just be that Tom.

534
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 3: Hardy as Matt Max where it just sounds like he

535
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 3: just sort of was like like I don't think he

536
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: didn't and he wasn't mean to be played just as

537
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 3: like a little cold.

538
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so method acting maybe not the best.

539
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 3: Approach if you're already a piece of shit. Yeah right.

540
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: Okay, So Dracula, he's you know, being weird and shaving

541
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: Jonathan and Jonathan like that. He starts lurking around the

542
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: castle and he goes into this horny fuck room with

543
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: three lady vampires and they orgy him up pretty good

544
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: until Dracula barges in and he's like, no, Jonathan is mine.

545
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: And then Jonathan watches them eat a baby, and.

546
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 4: He's like, oh, don't you think, though, if you were

547
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 4: a vampire, like a baby would be so delicious.

548
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 3: It's veal, it's human veal.

549
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 4: I think babies look delicious a bit. Sometimes I don't

550
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 4: even eat human flesh.

551
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 3: That is like a like brain reaction to where you're like,

552
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: it's so cute, I want to eat it.

553
00:30:59,320 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: Truly.

554
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 3: Okay.

555
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: So the next thing we know, Dracula is on his

556
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: ship called the Demeter, bound for London, along with several

557
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: crates filled with dirt from his castle grounds. We learn

558
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: that he gets power from those anyway. On the way,

559
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 2: Dracula is thinking about Mina he's eating the crew of

560
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: the ship, et cetera. He arrives in London and he's

561
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: in the form of like a wolf man and he

562
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: lures Lucy to him, who, by the way, has gotten

563
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: engaged to Arthur aka Carrie Is.

564
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 3: She picks kind of like I think, at least as

565
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: they're portrayed in the movie, she kind of picks the

566
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 3: flop I think. But although I was, I don't know,

567
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 3: I was thinking about it. I was like, Seward, that's

568
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: a lot of baggage. She takes him at night.

569
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 4: He also maybe shoots up Heroin at one point.

570
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: He definitely yeah, he has I think a morphine addiction.

571
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, he's very like in the book, he's portrayed

572
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: as just like a guy, but they really go out

573
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: of their way to be like he's he's a bit

574
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 3: of a mess. Whatever. They're not gonna be married for lawn.

575
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: No. So she's engaged, but then she's seduced by Dracula's

576
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: vampire powers and she fucks and gets bitten by this

577
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 2: like wolfy version of Dracula, and then Mina comes in

578
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 2: and sees all of this happening, and then Dracula does

579
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 2: my favorite thing where someone's like, don't look at me,

580
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 2: runs away and disappears, So drama, no, not like this.

581
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: And then so Mina helps Lucy get inside, and then

582
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: Dracula moves into his new house in London. He then

583
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: goes out for a stroll around town. We learn that

584
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: con trade of popular belief, Dracula can move about in

585
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: the daytime, although his powers are weak, and he looks

586
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: like how Gary Oldman regularly looks. He's dropped the Palpatine

587
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: vibes and now he looks like if Ozzy Osbourne and

588
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: Slash had a baby at least.

589
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the the Unfortunately, the purple glasses really scanned

590
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: Johnny Depp to me, but I thought it was really

591
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: funny when he like saw on a rider in the

592
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 3: crowd and it cuts to like he kind of looks

593
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 3: like Bono a little bit. You're like, the fuck. Yeah,

594
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 3: this is the guy who's like he must have some

595
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 3: magical abilities because I don't get it. I don't see it.

596
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: That I will talk a lot about, but yeah, we'll

597
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: get there, Okay. So he spots Mina, who's also out

598
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 2: and about, and he introduces himself to her as Prince Vlad,

599
00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: and he's eventually able to lure her in, also using

600
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: his vampire powers question Mark. She seems to think that

601
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: she recognizes him, and he's also about to bite her,

602
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 2: but he can't bring himself to do it. And I'm

603
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 2: not really sure what's going on here.

604
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 3: Also like watching porn, Yeah, and I was like, Mina,

605
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 3: how do you? She really repressed I which I like,

606
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 3: we'll talk about more of the productions. But like that

607
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 3: was why win Ona writer wanted this movie to be made,

608
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 3: where she was like, Mina is so interesting and no

609
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: one cares like that her Like writers, the whole reason

610
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 3: this movie exists was is true for a lot of

611
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: own Writer movies. She's a great producer.

612
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay. So meanwhile, Lucy is not feeling quite herself,

613
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 2: perhaps because Dracula bit her and she's turning into a vampire.

614
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 4: Which she does have a great smoky yeah she does so.

615
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: Abraham van Helsing played by Anthony Hopkins, a doctor who

616
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 2: specializes obscure ailments.

617
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 3: It's so wild that Anthony Hopkins has been old for

618
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 3: my entire life. It's like he's everyone go follow Anthony

619
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: Hopkins on Instagram.

620
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: Oh okay, he's got a good presence.

621
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: He's got a great presence. He'll just go live and

622
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: play the piano. Oh and be like hello everybody, and

623
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 3: just start playing the piano and a ton of cats.

624
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 3: He seems like a real sweety pie.

625
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: Good for him. Yeah, okay. So he is called upon

626
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 2: to treat Lucy and he sees the bite marks on

627
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: Lucy's neck and he's like, yep, vampire all right. But Jack,

628
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 2: Quincy and Arthur, Lucy's three boyfriends.

629
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 3: I know, they're all like, I want her to give

630
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 3: her blood. No me, no me.

631
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 2: But they they're like pish posh vampires. That's not real.

632
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: Back at Dracula's castle, Jonathan is also having a rough

633
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 2: go of it. He is getting all of his blood

634
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: sucked out by the vampire ladies, but he manages to

635
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: escape and finds refuge in a convent. When the nuns

636
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: send a letter to Mina telling her to come to

637
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: the convent so that she and Jonathan can get married immediately.

638
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 4: There's so much across European travel in this movie. They

639
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 4: are back and forth and back and forth.

640
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 3: Yes, as someone who lives in.

641
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 4: Europe, how did this exhausting the travel itineraries of this movie?

642
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 3: Yeah?

643
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 2: Okay, So Lucy is becoming more and more vampirey. Then

644
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: Van Helsing starts to do some research on Dracula specifically,

645
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: and apparently his crimes are pretty well documented. It reminded

646
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 2: me of the vampire research scene in Twilight, Oh my God,

647
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: when she just googles.

648
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 3: She buys a book and then just googles everything and anyways,

649
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 3: which is I was like, man, I do that all

650
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 3: the time, Like I want to have the book, but

651
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 3: but I'm not going to open it read it.

652
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 4: One of our camp clues is if someone has to google,

653
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 4: you know, a freaky activity happening whenever someone googles what's

654
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 4: happening to me? Or strange powers or in Lindsay Lohan's case,

655
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 4: and I know who killed me, like twin stigmata.

656
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 3: Bonus points if they're on Bang exactly Jeeves.

657
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so Van Helsing is basically doing the eighteen

658
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: hundreds version of a Google, and he's very excited because

659
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: I guess he's been pursuing Dracula his whole career and

660
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 2: this is his chance to finally hunt him down.

661
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, he flips out, he's so excited, and

662
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 3: then he's like he's I think Anthony Hopkins is so

663
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 3: funny and as he's like, whoo, we gotta cut her

664
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 3: head off, or like he's just like, can't read the room.

665
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 3: It's very funny.

666
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: On three separate occasions, he's like, yeah, no big deal,

667
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: I don't no, we don't need to give Lucy an autopsy.

668
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 2: We just need to chop her head off and drive

669
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: a stick through her heart. And then they do that

670
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 2: on screen, and then the he says it again later

671
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 2: you already did it, yeah, he tells. He's like, oh, yeah,

672
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: Mina your your best friend. Yeah, she was in a

673
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: great deal of pain and she and she's dead now,

674
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: but it's okay because we chopped off her head and

675
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: stabbed her in the heart, so no worries.

676
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 4: And she's like, it's such a tonal choice for this movie,

677
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 4: which is otherwise so gothic, romantic, serious, erotic. And then

678
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,879
Speaker 4: you just got Anthony Hopkins like yeah, in a different movie.

679
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: Basically he's goofy clown. The book does like regularly mention

680
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 3: that Van Helsing is funny. Where like that whole thing,

681
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 3: where when was it Arth that can't Carrie elwa was Arthur?

682
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 4: Yes?

683
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 3: When he's like I'll give my blood, no big deal.

684
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 3: I'll give every last drop. And in the book they're like,

685
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 3: Van Helsing's so funny that he said, well, not every

686
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 3: last drop. He so, I don't know, bran Stucker thought

687
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 3: he was funny, didn't you go Mortensen play Van Helsing?

688
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 3: Or who plays Hugh Jackman?

689
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 4: Hugh Jackman. I need to watch that movie again. I'm really.

690
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it since it came out in two

691
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 2: thousand and four.

692
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: And then sure aged great.

693
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 4: One thing I remember about that movie is that you

694
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 4: could see the boom mics. Oh my god, I remember.

695
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 4: I remember that from the cinema.

696
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: I love that. And then is Underworld a spinoff from that?

697
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 2: Or is Kate Beckinstill playing a different Vampire Hunter.

698
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 4: Character she's a vampire and Underworld and she's just not

699
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 4: a vampire Hunter and Van Helsing I think?

700
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 3: And then isn't I Frankenstein a spinoff of Underworld?

701
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: It's I don't know if it's a spinoff or if

702
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: it's just like made by the same guy. Okay, but

703
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: there's some connection, yeah, Okay, there's some connection, yes, of course. Okay,

704
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,919
Speaker 2: So Dracula continues to seduce Mina. It seems like there's

705
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: some connection between her and Dracula's beloved Elisa Betta. Of course,

706
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 2: they're both played by when on a writer. I think

707
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 2: that Dracula thinks that Mina is like a reincarnation of

708
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 2: his wife.

709
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 3: I think the movie thinks that. The movie probably thinks

710
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 3: that too, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and this is all that

711
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 3: whole thing is added, like the Elizabetha thing, and the

712
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 3: like erotic relationship between those two is just like new yeah, yeah, yeah, lots.

713
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 2: To say there. Yeah, but Mina is like, oh shit,

714
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 2: I gotta go marry my fiance, but he must never

715
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: know about my new lover, Dracula aka Prince Vlad. And

716
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: so she writes a letter to Dracula breaking up with him,

717
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 2: and that feels like a very nineteenth century equivalent of

718
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: like breaking up over text.

719
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 3: She does, and then she goes and he yeah, he

720
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: has a meltdown. I'm like wow.

721
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: So Mina sets off to Romania to meet up with Jonathan.

722
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 2: She can't stop thinking about Dracula, though I would say

723
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: that he's penetrating her thoughts, and I get it they

724
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: have some of psychic connection. Dracula, meanwhile, is heartbroken and

725
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: crying his eyes out and looking even more like shit

726
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 2: he's got this like bat face situation happening. His tears

727
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: are blood. He is not having a good time. Mina

728
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: arrives at the convent and we see her in Jonathan's wedding.

729
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: Jonathan now has gray hair because he got all the

730
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 2: life force sucked out of him.

731
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 4: You gotta sucked too hard. That is some good head.

732
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: I can I can do that. Okay. Yeah, everyone's a

733
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 3: really good sport about the fact that he got sucked

734
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 3: up his great hair.

735
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

736
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 2: In that scene where Van Helsing is telling Mina that

737
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 2: her best friend has been brutally murdered by him, he's

738
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 2: also like in front of Mina. He says, hey, Jonathan,

739
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 2: you know all those women that you fornicated with, You

740
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: didn't drink their blood, did you? And Mina's just like what, Okay.

741
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 3: They just need to have a conversation about it because

742
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 3: Mina's love with Dracula.

743
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: Come on, I have communication that This is just a

744
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 2: story about two women with varying relationships to their own

745
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: sexuality and their own notions of love, navigating polyamory. That's

746
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: what this movie is about anyway. So we see the

747
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 2: wedding and that is intercut with Dracula who is back

748
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 2: to looking like Emperor Palpatine coming after Lucy again. He

749
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 2: turns into a wolfy vampire again and seemingly kills Lucy.

750
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: Everyone thinks she's dead. There's a whole funeral that's.

751
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 4: So good that those rivers of blood allen when he

752
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 4: bites it. She basically gets fountained in blood. It's so cool. Yeah,

753
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 4: and she's in like this gold le maay thing. Lucy

754
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 4: always has one tit out, yes, all.

755
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: The way, lots of gratuitous she's always convalescing in like

756
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 3: a silver gown.

757
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 4: One breast, just l.

758
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 2: Every man who comes into the room. She's like, kiss me.

759
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 2: She makes out with so many people, it's amazing.

760
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 4: Also, do you know about this wedding with Keanu and Winona.

761
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 4: So they wanted it to be authentic, so they took

762
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 4: them to a Greek Greek Orthodox church and filmed it

763
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 4: with a real Greek Orthodox minister. And then they realized

764
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 4: that actually they were potentially married.

765
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 3: And then did they do anything about daughter?

766
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 4: They think They were like, it's not legal, but maybe

767
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 4: in the eyes of God, we just got married.

768
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd be okay with it.

769
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's cute.

770
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 2: That would have been a dream come true for Winona

771
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: because she loved Keanu.

772
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 4: So much, she apparently still texts them and writes some

773
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 4: letters saying dear husband, oh.

774
00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 3: I love them.

775
00:43:59,120 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 4: Wow.

776
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 2: Okay, so we think Lucy is dead, but Van Helsing

777
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: isn't so sure, so he takes Lucy's three boyfriends, Arthur, Quincy,

778
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 2: and Jack to her grave site. Her coffin is empty,

779
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 2: and then Lucy shows up full vampire.

780
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 3: With an incredible outfit the look of the movie wowow wow,

781
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 3: and she looks like Queen Elizabeth ye, like it's incredible.

782
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 4: She also has a medala does vampire Yes.

783
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it was just incredible.

784
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: And she also has a an accessory, which is a

785
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: small child.

786
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 4: That she's about to eat tasty tasty.

787
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 2: But they stop Lucy and kill her by driving a

788
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 2: steak through her heart and chopping her head off, but

789
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 2: not before Lucy pukes blood all over Van Helsing's face.

790
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 3: Fun fact, for some reason, speaking of Amidala chopping the

791
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 3: head off on screen was George Lucas's idea. I guess

792
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 3: originally they were like gonna cut away and you're like

793
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,280
Speaker 3: a thud. But I guess George, because whatever those seventies

794
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 3: guys all knew each other, and he was like, no,

795
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 3: show the head politian vibes. He said, do it.

796
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 4: Apparently they kind of did twenty seven minutes of gore

797
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 4: from this movie. WHOA, Yeah, they thought it was too gory.

798
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 4: I love it. I'd love to see that.

799
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 3: I want to see what they cut. Yeah, because the

800
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 3: all of the this movie is like worth watching if

801
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 3: only for the practical effects. Because here's there's like a

802
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 3: single CGI.

803
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 4: Effect in the entire time, and it looks terrible.

804
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 3: It looks bad. It looks so bad. But even the

805
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,439
Speaker 3: like freaky like smoke that has sex with Winona Ryder

806
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 3: was a practical effect.

807
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 4: Whoa.

808
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 3: It was like, it's like an in camera trick.

809
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 2: Okay, well yeah, because Coppola was like, I don't want

810
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 2: any CGI. I don't want any kind of modern tech.

811
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 2: I want all like old Hollywood stuff. And he had

812
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: to like fire a bunch of people who were like, no,

813
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: it can't be done. And then he hired his son.

814
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 4: Who was a magician, to do all the practical effects.

815
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 3: That's good, but doesn't if you have a magician son

816
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 3: lying around.

817
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 4: He's literally good for nothing else. This is.

818
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 3: It's his big moment. Look look, you know there's criticisms

819
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 3: of nepotism. That's not one of them for me.

820
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay. So meanwhile, Jonathan and Mina have returned

821
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: to London. Jonathan sees Dracula and recognizes him. Then the

822
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: married couple have dinner with Van Helsing. This is that

823
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: very funny conversation where Van Helsing is just very nonchalantly

824
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 2: being like, yeah, I murdered your best friend soul. What

825
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 2: And then he's like, Okay, we have to form a

826
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 2: plan to hunt down and kill Dracula. So they hide

827
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 2: Mina away in doctor Jack's office and the men all

828
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: go to Dracula's estate to destroy it and try to

829
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: kill Dracula, who is taking on many forms at this point.

830
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: He's a human sized bat, he's green, missed. He turns

831
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: into a pile of rats at one point.

832
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 4: What a great way to get out of a party.

833
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 4: Imagine you're just having a conversation that you don't want

834
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 4: to be in pile of rats.

835
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 3: That is a good trick. That is a good thing

836
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:18,720
Speaker 3: to have in your back pocket.

837
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 2: I would do that on bad dates.

838
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, that would be so great. Yeah wow,

839
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 3: I mean it sucks for the restaurant.

840
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, that becomes a rat TOTUOI situation.

841
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I hope that the rats are passionate

842
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 3: about cooking. If you flooded into a bunch of remis,

843
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 3: Oh goodness.

844
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 2: Okay, So Dracula goes to Mina, who is very writhing

845
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 2: and horny, and he's like, by the way, I am

846
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: a soulless, undead monster. And she's kind of upset at first,

847
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 2: but then she's like, I don't care. I don't care

848
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 2: that you killed my best friend. I love you always,

849
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 2: and then he bites her. She drinks his blood so

850
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 2: that she'll become a vampire and be able to be

851
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 2: with him for all of eternity. But just then all

852
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: the men come in and Dracula escapes, and in order

853
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: to save Mina, they must destroy Dracula once and for all.

854
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 2: So Van Helsing hypnotizes Mina to figure out where Dracula is,

855
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 2: like he's using their psychic connection. They figure out he's

856
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 2: going back to Romania so he can grow strong again

857
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: in his homeland and like, I don't know, writhe around

858
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: in his dirt and get his powers back.

859
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 3: Wow, Dragon, I.

860
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 4: Love the shots of him in his coffin in his

861
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 4: gold le mat dress. But he's he's just like kind

862
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 4: of stuck and he knows maybe something's going wrong. But

863
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 4: just see his little face kind of cocooned.

864
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 3: He even sleeps dramatic. It's just I just love it.

865
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 2: So our friends take a train, hoping to beat Dracula

866
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 2: to Romania, who is traveling by boat, so it's like

867
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 2: a race to the castle. They bring Mina along, who

868
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 2: it's not feeling great, what with all the turning into

869
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 2: a vampire. She and Van Helsing separate from the others.

870
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,720
Speaker 2: You know, she's turning into a vampire. She kisses Van Helsing.

871
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 2: She tries to kill him a little bit, as do

872
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 2: the other lady vampires, the ones who reside in Dracula's castle.

873
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 2: They've come out for a little snack, but Van Helsing

874
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 2: chops their heads off, not Mina's. She's still alive. Then

875
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: there's a big chase with everyone racing to the castle.

876
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 2: There's a big battle at the castle. Jonathan, Van Helsing, Arthur, Quincy,

877
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: and Jack are fighting Dracula and his servants. They stab

878
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 2: Dracula in the heart, so he's like kind of dying,

879
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 2: but Mina points a gun at her husband, being like, well,

880
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: when my time comes, will you do the same to me?

881
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 3: And they're like no, oh, and then they only kill sluts,

882
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: you are virtuous, and then wait till you But what

883
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 3: if she wasn't okay? So they leave her there.

884
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: Mina stays behind with Dracula, and her love fixes him

885
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: or something she does ultimately fix him. She lands the

886
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: final killing blow by, you know, driving the sword through

887
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 2: his heart and chopping off his head between confessions of love,

888
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: little kisses that she's giving him, tears that she's crying,

889
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 2: so it's not necessarily like a triumphant ending. She's like, no,

890
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: my other boyfriend, I have to kill him the end.

891
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 2: So let's take another quick break and we'll come back

892
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 2: to discuss, and we're back.

893
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 3: I just wanted to say I forgot to mention in

894
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 3: my history of this movie that I watched this movie

895
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 3: on Pluto TV. Oh, same, did you also see the

896
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 3: same del Taco ad? Four thousand times?

897
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 4: No?

898
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 3: What commercial did you see? Four thousand times?

899
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 4: Oh?

900
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 2: I absolutely disassociate when I watch commercials, so I don't remember.

901
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 3: It's really hard. I will forever associate this movie with

902
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 3: a Deltaco commercial. I was really kind of taken it

903
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 3: back by how many times I saw it, because I mean,

904
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 3: Pluto TV is the poor man's TV. They're both free,

905
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 3: but to b is reasonable sure Pluto TV. It was ever,

906
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 3: the runtime of this movie extended by forty five minutes

907
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 3: with the number of delta and it was the same

908
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 3: Del Taco ad every time. Oh I'm sorry it no,

909
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 3: it helped it. It had elevated the experience. It's so

910
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 3: like these it's getting shameless because it least, you know,

911
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 3: like when because we're now paying whatever. Now I'm like

912
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 3: being a boomer, but we used to like pay for cable,

913
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 3: and by we I mean our parents. At least you

914
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 3: get a variety of commercials. But now it's like you're

915
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 3: paying to watch the same Del Taco ad four thousand times.

916
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 3: And so anytime, yeah, I'm just every time I see

917
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 3: this poster, I'll be like dell, Yeah, yeah, of course.

918
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 2: In any case, should we start with maybe some adaptation changes.

919
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 2: We've hinted at a few of them. Yeah, I have

920
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 2: not read the book, but once again, I've read the

921
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 2: Wikipedia synopsis of the book, so basically I know everything

922
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: there is to know. Jamie. Feel free to jump in

923
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 2: or fill in any gaps. But what I've gathered is

924
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: that it's a pretty faithful adaptation as far as major

925
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 2: story events. But there is a pretty major change in

926
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: the sense that in the movie there is a love

927
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 2: story between Dracula and Mina. They fall in love with

928
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 2: each other, and that is completely added. That's not in

929
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 2: the book.

930
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole like traveling, time travel, reincarnation story is added.

931
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 3: And the weirdly this like it feels wild to say,

932
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 3: but the movie is less queer than the book, which

933
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 3: is something that I found, Like, there there is an essay,

934
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, it's on my telephone. Uh, there there's

935
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 3: an essay. I read to that and a wild desire

936
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 3: took me. The Homoerotic History of Dracula Byalia Schaefer. That

937
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 3: sort of traces how like Bromstoker is it Brom? Is

938
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 3: it Bram? Is it Brom? He's dead? Bromstoker was very

939
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 3: likely a closeted queer man. That is like what it

940
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 3: is heavily speculated he was married. He was, but the marriage,

941
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 3: like people argued, the marriage may not have even ever

942
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 3: been consummated.

943
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 4: I imagine one hundred and fifty years later, people are

944
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 4: like sexless marriage.

945
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, you can't. And like, I mean, his best

946
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 3: friend was Oscar Wilde diedis died of syphilis. Wrote he

947
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 3: was a big Walt Whitman fan, and he would kind

948
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 3: of write Walt Whitman these like arguably love letters. It

949
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 3: is very likely that he was gay, and this was

950
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 3: maybe known in his community, but he wasn't obviously out.

951
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 3: But he started writing Dracula a month after Oscar Wilde

952
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 3: went to It was like, I kind of forgot about this,

953
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 3: but Oscar Wilde was punished by the government for being gay.

954
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 3: He was like, you know, subjected to do it hard labor.

955
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 3: And then Bromstoker starts writing Dracula a month after that.

956
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 3: There are lines in the book that are cut from

957
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 3: the movie, I think the most glaring, which I didn't

958
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 3: even honestly notice until I read this essay. And then

959
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 3: once you see it, you're like, oh, duh, you don't

960
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 3: see Gary Oldman Dracula sucking men. Uh, it's they change,

961
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 3: which is very much a feature of the book. You

962
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 3: only see heterosucking in the Coppola movie, and there's actually

963
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 3: a lot of hetero sucking at it. Like in the book.

964
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 3: They're they're not like feasting on Keanu and you know,

965
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 3: sucking him dry all day long. It's he's a prisoner. Yeah, Like,

966
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 3: there's a lot of hetero elements added for this movie

967
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 3: that is still very queer campy, but like it's interesting

968
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 3: that in the book there's more. The line that is

969
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 3: changed that Talia Schaeffer points out is when the vampire

970
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 3: gals are like around Jonathan and they're like, we're gonna,

971
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 3: you know, suck you off. They don't get to do

972
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 3: it in the book because Dracula person and says, how

973
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 3: dare you touch him? Any of you? How dare you

974
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 3: cast eyes on him? When I have forbidden it? Back,

975
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 3: I tell you all, this man belongs to me. Francis

976
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 3: for Copola cuts out this man belongs to me That

977
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 3: is not said in the movie. There's just these moments

978
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 3: that in the book, like in the context of who

979
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 3: Bromstoker was when he wrote it, feel intentional that are

980
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,760
Speaker 3: taken out in the nineties. And then yeah, all the others,

981
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 3: all the lucy stuff, which is like another hetero element

982
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 3: to like make Dracula a straighter character.

983
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 2: Arculate, right, right, So also I saw that in the

984
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 2: book the Lucy character is more like prim and proper

985
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 2: and not so horny.

986
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I honestly do prefer Copola Lucy.

987
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: Oh.

988
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 3: Same.

989
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have lots to say about this rendition of

990
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 2: the character.

991
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 4: But she's problematic as hell. But god, I'm so glad

992
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:50,320
Speaker 4: she was.

993
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 3: She went out having fun, she went on top, she

994
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 3: had three boyfriends at the time of death. That's great.

995
00:56:55,880 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, seriously. So those are the main adaptation changes as

996
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 2: far as I could tell, which led me to a

997
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 2: lot of the questions I had.

998
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Oh. The only other thing is like, this

999
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 3: is the only adaptation that I mean, there's seven hundred.

1000
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 3: It's probably not the only, but the only popular adaptation

1001
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 3: of Dracula that actually makes an effort to like put

1002
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 3: it in a place in history, because I like, all

1003
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 3: monster stories are about the other. But the story of

1004
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 3: Dracula is about like, or one of the facets of

1005
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 3: the story is like anxiety around Eastern Europeans migrating west,

1006
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 3: and like Dracula is the embodiment of this xenophobia, and

1007
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 3: this anxiety.

1008
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 4: Potentially antisemitic as well. Right, Yeah, but I've also seen

1009
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 4: that it he could represent like an anti feudalism sort

1010
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 4: of perspective as well, and like the rise of the

1011
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 4: bourgeoisie and you know, the rise of capitalism and meritocracy

1012
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 4: as it were, against this kind of archaic form of government.

1013
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 3: That makes that makes especially in the context of like

1014
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 3: characters like if Mina and Jonathan are representing England, especially

1015
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 3: Jonathan because he's like so prim and proper that it

1016
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 3: leads to his ruin Ye and oh that's interesting.

1017
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, vampires can be anything you want. In the debate,

1018
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 4: there's such a great standards, so fun versatile.

1019
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 3: There's a thesis paper about every aspect of Dracula.

1020
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So these adaptation changes, particularly revolving around the

1021
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 2: love story that's added in between Dracula and Mina. I

1022
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 2: did not realize that until doing research for this episode,

1023
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 2: that that was a component that is not in the

1024
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 2: book and is added in for the movie. So I

1025
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 2: was like, because as I was watching this, I was like,

1026
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: what is like, is there a vampire spell that he's

1027
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 2: casting on her? Like what what sort of like powers

1028
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 2: and mind control, like seduction powers, et cetera. Does he

1029
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 2: have slash that he's able to who use to sort

1030
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 2: of exert power over both Lucy and especially Mina, And

1031
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 2: is that more clear in the book, do we get

1032
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 2: more kind of like world building and backstory about what

1033
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: his powers are and how he's able to get Mina

1034
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 2: to fall in love with him. Turns out that's not

1035
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 2: in the book at all. So this is just a

1036
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 2: thing in the movie where I'm like, Okay, now, is

1037
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 2: it that he is using these like mind control powers

1038
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 2: on her? Is it that she is a strong willed

1039
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 2: person but like no one is a match for the

1040
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 2: likes of Dracula, Or is it that, like, Mina is

1041
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 2: a woman and this is a movie made by men,

1042
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 2: and therefore they think that she's like mentally and emotionally

1043
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 2: weak and fragile and susceptible to kind of maybe vampire

1044
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 2: powers or maybe just like, oh, a man is paying

1045
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 2: attention to me.

1046
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 4: I read it as she is the reincarnation, and as

1047
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 4: she accesses that, she's accessing a past love. But I

1048
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 4: don't think the movie does a great job of showing

1049
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 4: or telling that. And so the first time I watched it,

1050
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,919
Speaker 4: I was like, wait, she loves them? When did that happen? Yeah?

1051
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does happened so quickly.

1052
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 4: There's a few moments I got in this movie where

1053
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 4: And I never say this, but like, I kind of

1054
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 4: wish this movie told a bit more and showed a

1055
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 4: bit less Like it there's a few times where it's like, wait,

1056
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 4: what and who and how did that is? What's supposed

1057
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 4: what am I supposed to be getting from this bit?

1058
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 4: But I think that the movie thinks that there are

1059
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 4: lovers across time that are finally reunited and that's what

1060
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 4: he ignites in her, rather than it being a manipulation.

1061
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 2: Which is also the plot of the Haunted Mansion starring anyway, with.

1062
01:00:54,320 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 3: Another with another character named I think Elizabeth. I also weirdly, yeah,

1063
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 3: I guess my. I feel like that that layering to

1064
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 3: me felt like misguided. Like I want to believe it

1065
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 3: was well intentioned, because I think, like, if I'm putting

1066
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 3: on like nineteen ninety two brain, it's like they're expanding

1067
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 3: the character of Mina but to give her another love interest.

1068
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 3: But I think you can also see or I'm kind

1069
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 3: of going off of like Wenoda Rider's take on it,

1070
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 3: which is that like the expansion of the story is

1071
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 3: intended to emphasize her repression and it's like through accessing

1072
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 3: this past love with Dracula that she is able to

1073
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 3: actually experience lust and sex, and it's almost like it

1074
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 3: reminds me of We talked about this in the Twilight video,

1075
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 3: citing the Natalie Wynn video about like the ravishment fantasy

1076
01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:00,439
Speaker 3: and like she's able to be her horniest self through

1077
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 3: this like mystical connection with this past love. I don't

1078
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 3: like how it's written, and I do feel like it

1079
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 3: ultimately kind of like is like how can we make

1080
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 3: Dracula like straighter? Or like there are other ways to

1081
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 3: do this, but I might get My read of it

1082
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 3: was that it was intended to because her relationship with

1083
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 3: Jonathan is like very sterile, Like.

1084
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 2: She's like, we've kissed, but nothing else.

1085
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:28,439
Speaker 3: I did appreciate that they made out at the altar.

1086
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 3: I was like, that's a move. That's a move. I

1087
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 3: want to do that.

1088
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 2: But she's just an act. She's like basically pretending that

1089
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 2: her Jonathan is Dracula exactly.

1090
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1091
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 3: I think that it was an attempt written and directed

1092
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 3: by men to emphasize how repressed she was.

1093
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a nineties attempt to give this character a

1094
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 4: bit more. But because it's in the nineties and it's

1095
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 4: in this cocktail of like erotic thrillers. Like the way

1096
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 4: we give her more is by making her horny, right,

1097
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 4: I think there is something in interesting in that, And

1098
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 4: I think the idea is about yeah, like repression and

1099
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 4: how hardy can you be before you have to have

1100
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 4: your head cut off? Like I think that's kind of

1101
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 4: a fun a fun thing. But there's almost something more

1102
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 4: feminist in the original text, which is just like men

1103
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 4: as a girl who gets shit done, and she's a

1104
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 4: scientist and she kills Dracula, and like she doesn't need

1105
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 4: to have a romance with every man she meets.

1106
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was like I do. I prefer the book

1107
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 3: for that reason. Also, she has a job, she's like

1108
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 3: they mention it in the movie, but it never really

1109
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,720
Speaker 3: comes up. But she teaches a school. Yeah, she's really smart.

1110
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 3: She she's a very active like I think she's she's

1111
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 3: kind of the protagonist of You could argue, I mean,

1112
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 3: she's certainly a more active character than any of the

1113
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 3: men trying to kill. You can argue that like her

1114
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 3: and Van Helsing are like pretty equally active and powerful

1115
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 3: when it comes to taking Dracula down. And in the

1116
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 3: book it's not because she's like secretly in love with

1117
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 3: him at a soul level. It's because she needs to

1118
01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 3: kill Dracula.

1119
01:03:59,160 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 2: It needs to be done.

1120
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 4: Maybe there would have been a way to explore her

1121
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 4: being repressed and horny without it needing for her to

1122
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 4: also have like true love with Dracula. Yeah, do you

1123
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 4: know what I mean? Yeah, because that obviously is a

1124
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 4: thing that existed at that time, and women, you know,

1125
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 4: weren't allowed the access to their sexuality that they are now.

1126
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 4: So that's a cool thing to kind of explore.

1127
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 2: But I don't want to know what francis for a

1128
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 2: complos version of that is necessarily like.

1129
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 3: But I think it's interesting because I'm trying to remember

1130
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 3: I So, I was not a huge fan of the

1131
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 3: new Nose Ferratu, in which Lily Rose DApp plays the Mena.

1132
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 3: She's called Ellen in that one for whatever, because it's

1133
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 3: the rip off, but that's the Meana character, and I

1134
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 3: feel like it for me at least, wasn't much better.

1135
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 2: I thought it's worse and we won't spoil it. We

1136
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 2: won't spoil Nose for Atu, but people just have to

1137
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 2: do a different episode not acting, because yeah, I thought

1138
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 2: that was handled way worse.

1139
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 3: Right, So it's like, unfortunately, I think whatever it sucks

1140
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 3: to have to use this yardstick of like random famous men,

1141
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 3: and you know, I'm a I guess I'm a fan

1142
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 3: of like Robert went to the Library Eggers. But I

1143
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 3: thought that, yeah, like it was worse than twenty twenty four,

1144
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 3: Like she is less active than she was, but also

1145
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 3: she's most active in the original text. So it's I

1146
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 3: don't know.

1147
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 2: The bottom line is the movie I don't think makes

1148
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 2: it clear enough what is going on with her internally?

1149
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 2: Like is it that she's being, you know, mind controlled

1150
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 2: by these vampire powers? Is it that she is a

1151
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 2: reincarnation of his past lover from five hundred years before

1152
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 2: or whatever?

1153
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 4: Right?

1154
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 2: Is it that she's just a fragile woman, because there's

1155
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 2: like there are different moments where when she first meets Dracula,

1156
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 2: like on the streets of London, she's very firm with him.

1157
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 2: She's just like, you're trying to get around buy a map, bitch, Like,

1158
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 2: leave me alone. You're annoying and weird.

1159
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 3: I'm engaged, uh, like I have a fiance.

1160
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden she's like, oh, I'm sorry,

1161
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 2: I've been so rude. Let's hang out And then they

1162
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 2: go and watch porn together.

1163
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 3: I just wish it was clearer that if this is

1164
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 3: what happens. I wish it was clearer that like that

1165
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 3: happens because he's Jedi mind tricking her or whatever, because

1166
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 3: I assume that's what he was doing. But it just

1167
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 3: there's no.

1168
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 2: Visual like manifestation of that on screen.

1169
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 3: So I'm just like what I was like, we need

1170
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 3: to have like a little she like like woooo right,

1171
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 3: because it does just kind of I don't know. Yeah,

1172
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 3: I feel like Coppola trusted to us a little bit

1173
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 3: too much in that moment because it does just sort

1174
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 3: of seem like a decision she makes versus something that's

1175
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:42,439
Speaker 3: like happening.

1176
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 2: To her, right, Like I need to see her eyes

1177
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 2: glaze over or something, you know. So that was very

1178
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 2: confusing and that made me I was just like, what

1179
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 2: is happening? And I don't like the implications of this.

1180
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 2: I guess it does make sense if she's a reincarnation,

1181
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 2: but I don't love that either, Like I would much

1182
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 2: prefer the version that we see in the original text.

1183
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 3: I mean that's like Crystal like you're saying, like there's

1184
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 3: like there has to be a way to explore Like

1185
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 3: I because I'm all for the like stuff that's not

1186
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 3: in the book of like Nina wanting to explore her

1187
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 3: sexuality and like find a means to explore sexual passion

1188
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 3: that is just like not allowed and certainly not with

1189
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 3: her like door husband. But this just is like not

1190
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 3: the way to do it.

1191
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 4: What do you think the movie thinks about her sexuality?

1192
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 4: Like That's the other thing I wasn't entirely clear on,

1193
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 4: Like is it is it encouraging it or is it

1194
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 4: saying that like because Lucy's punished, but like because it

1195
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 4: just ends where it does. Like I don't know, does

1196
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 4: she go back with Jonathan at the end or is

1197
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,439
Speaker 4: she like awake now and she's like I can do better.

1198
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 2: We don't know, we don't know, we don't know.

1199
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, kind I hope she just goes off into just

1200
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 4: like she gets three boyfriends.

1201
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 2: You know, I would love that for her.

1202
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 4: She's clearly not happy with that man, and the movie

1203
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,520
Speaker 4: makes it clear that she's not. But I don't know,

1204
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 4: does the movie kind of think she needs to get

1205
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 4: back in her box hardness? I say, you know what

1206
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 4: I mean?

1207
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because it is like emphasized in the movie

1208
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:21,520
Speaker 3: that she's like her quote unquote value is her virtuousness,

1209
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 3: and it doesn't really come all the way around on

1210
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,320
Speaker 3: that to say, like, I think that it feels like

1211
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 3: the movie still thinks that at the end. But an idea,

1212
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 3: it's confusing.

1213
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little bit ambiguous, right, because I mean,

1214
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 2: if you compare her with Lucy, it's the classic kind

1215
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 2: of Madonna horror complex thing where Mina is virtuous and

1216
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 2: she's virginal, and but she still falls in love with Dracula,

1217
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 2: and therefore she's also polyamorous because she loves Jonathan. Maybe

1218
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 2: we're led to believe she also loves Dracula. She's emotionally

1219
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 2: cheating on both of them, but she can be saved

1220
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 2: because she's the more pure, virginal one. You know, she

1221
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 2: gets a redemption. She's the one to kill Dracula. Her

1222
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 2: love releases everyone from like the darkness of it all

1223
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:19,599
Speaker 2: versus Lucy, who she's horny, she's having sexy dreams, she's

1224
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 2: far more sexually curious. She's got three boyfriends lusting after her,

1225
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 2: and then she is punished because of that by being killed.

1226
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 2: But I think she's such an interesting character because, yes,

1227
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:38,600
Speaker 2: the story does ultimately punish her for her horniness. But

1228
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 2: before that, she still has these three men who are

1229
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 2: like tending to her. No one's really judging her. They're

1230
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 2: not like, well, you deserve this for having sex with

1231
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:49,799
Speaker 2: a wolf.

1232
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 4: But it does seem like Dracula's decides she's an easy target.

1233
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 4: Like there's almost like right, there's a sense that she's disposable,

1234
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 4: and as soon as she dies, it's it's like this

1235
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 4: van helsing those jokes about cutting her head off. It's

1236
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 4: like he's not mourning her because well, she was a slut,

1237
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 4: right right, she got what she The movie kind of

1238
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 4: is is very she got what she deserved or but

1239
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 4: I agree, I.

1240
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 2: Wish there was like a slightly different, just version of her.

1241
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 3: Where I get stuck again, is that like all that

1242
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 3: is true, but Lucy and Mina have a great relationship

1243
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 3: the whole time, and like so it's like Lucy does

1244
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 3: feel very clearly judged in a way that like elevates.

1245
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 3: It's sort of presented in the book of like poor Lucy,

1246
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 3: that sucks, but like this is like she dies because

1247
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 3: she wanted three boyfriends. But in both like their friendship

1248
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,640
Speaker 3: is so strong. They're not like unlike a lot of

1249
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 3: Madonna Hort stories. They're not turned against each other, they're

1250
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:02,680
Speaker 3: not herod to each other and their friendship. There's like

1251
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 3: a scene that I really kind of was like, oh

1252
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 3: my gosh, is that Mina wants to stay with Lucy

1253
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 3: instead of to go rescue her like draculate ass husband.

1254
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 3: Where she's like, I don't want to go, and Lucy's like, no,

1255
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:17,639
Speaker 3: you have you have to go get your dragula ass husband,

1256
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 3: like you have to. And but but it's like against

1257
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 3: Mina's better judgment, like she her love for Lucy is

1258
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:28,759
Speaker 3: stronger than like her love for this guy she married.

1259
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 3: And so I do like that at very least for

1260
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 3: all of the movie's faults, like that friendship is intact

1261
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 3: and that like mutual respect between them isn't intact, because

1262
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 3: I feel like it was like a lesser adaptation would

1263
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 3: be like and there's even like Mina says like, oh,

1264
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 3: like Lucy's so pretty, but it's not like ugh, I

1265
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 3: can't believe how hot she is. She's like it's it's

1266
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 3: just like wow, my beautiful friend. You know, it is sweet,

1267
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 3: Like I wish I was.

1268
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 2: As pretty as Lucy and I and all these men

1269
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 2: doored me. It's not like jealousy or envious. It's just

1270
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:06,599
Speaker 2: more just like good for her than everyone loves her.

1271
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 4: It's so sweet that Lucy's like kind of encouraging her

1272
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 4: sexuality as well, like there's something very yeah, lovely about that.

1273
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 4: She's like, look at his book, isn't it fun? And

1274
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 4: she's like, you don't need to be ashamed?

1275
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 3: Like right, yeah, but then the plot punishes her for

1276
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 3: feeling that way. It's so hard, I know.

1277
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the scene where they're flipping through Arabian

1278
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 2: nights and like looking at all the horny drawings and

1279
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 2: and mean is like I could never can people even

1280
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 2: do this unless like, yeah, I did it last night.

1281
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 2: I love it.

1282
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, I like that. I like that's it. You know,

1283
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 3: it's very stretched, but I like, you know, that's a

1284
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 3: dynamic I'm familiar with of like your friend that had

1285
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 3: sex before you being like it's awesome, try it out sometimes,

1286
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,680
Speaker 3: like hekay, I.

1287
01:12:56,920 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 2: Wanted to talk about. So you know, there's there's different

1288
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 2: interpretations of the book as we discussed, as far as

1289
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 2: like fears around immigration and like Eastern Europe infiltrating Western

1290
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 2: Europe and like ethnic otherness and things like that. So

1291
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 2: what the movie does is basically, the good guys in

1292
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 2: the story are white Anglo Saxon Christians from England or

1293
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 2: I think vi Van Helsing is Dutch, but you know,

1294
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 2: it's all like.

1295
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 3: Colonizer vibes for sure.

1296
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 2: And then the bad guys, the bad people in the

1297
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 2: movie are from Eastern Europe, Turkish people and Romani people,

1298
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 2: because you get this villainization of Romani people. This is

1299
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 2: something we've discussed a lot on the podcast. In this movie,

1300
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 2: they are depicted as the like mindless loyal servants of Dracula.

1301
01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:02,760
Speaker 2: They're doing his evil bidding for reasons unknown, maybe that

1302
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 2: he's promised them eternal life or not sure. But also

1303
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:11,600
Speaker 2: the g slur is used repeatedly throughout the movie. And

1304
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:14,719
Speaker 2: then you have within the first thirty seconds of the movie,

1305
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 2: you've got like voiceover that's villainizing Islam because it's like,

1306
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 2: oh yes, uh, Muslim Turks invade Romania, threatening all of christiendom.

1307
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 3: Right. So the way that like historical context is brought

1308
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:32,640
Speaker 3: in is just offensive, which is like irritating, not surprising,

1309
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:35,640
Speaker 3: But it's like Coppola had such an agenda to like

1310
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:41,479
Speaker 3: show that Italians are not the stereotypes they're presented as

1311
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:44,680
Speaker 3: but any nationality that he doesn't associate with, He's like,

1312
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:49,640
Speaker 3: they are they are You're like, heyah right, yeah, I

1313
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 3: mean and that's like an element of this story that

1314
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 3: if you want to do a book adaptation, that's like

1315
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 3: something that you can really like move in a different

1316
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:00,760
Speaker 3: direction in a more thoughtful way, and this movie sort

1317
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 3: of shows it.

1318
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:08,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, what else I'd love to shout out the costume designer, yes,

1319
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 4: and the production design in general, but the costume designer

1320
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 4: on this movie was Ako Ishioka, who won Yes, but

1321
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 4: she won an Oscar for costume design in this I

1322
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 4: think these are some of the best costumes I have

1323
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 4: ever seen in a movie.

1324
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 3: Man that she also did my favorite. She did mirror

1325
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 3: mirror to the best Enderella costumes ever. She's so good.

1326
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 4: So the embarrassing thing that I thought of when I

1327
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 4: saw this was like this, these might be the best

1328
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 4: costumes I have ever seen in a movie. And I

1329
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 4: was like, what else is up there? And I was

1330
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:40,919
Speaker 4: like the cell And I was like, that's embarrassing, intrusive

1331
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:42,759
Speaker 4: thoughts that I've just had, And so then I googled

1332
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 4: and I was like, no, they are really good. And

1333
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 4: then it turns out she did those.

1334
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, she did a lot, she would do it. I

1335
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:51,639
Speaker 3: was so sad to see that she'd passed, because I mean, god,

1336
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 3: so good.

1337
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 4: So she was a graphic designer by trade, so she's

1338
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 4: actually got a Grammy as well for album art design,

1339
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 4: and she nearly she was nominated for two Tony's for

1340
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:05,879
Speaker 4: costume design as well, So she nearly had an egot

1341
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 4: in but in the sphere of design, which is so cool.

1342
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,839
Speaker 3: That's amazing, so cool. Only musicians do that, that's amazing.

1343
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 4: And also I just want to shout out that she

1344
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 4: didn't ad for a Japanese department store called Parco with

1345
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 4: Faye done Away and it's just Fade done Away one

1346
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 4: long shot of her unwrapping and eating a hard boiled egg.

1347
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 4: It is so surreal. Wow. Yeah, but anyway, Yeah, go

1348
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:34,680
Speaker 4: check out acho Isshioka's work. She did a she did

1349
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 4: a music video for B York. Yeah, it's just really cool.

1350
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 3: It's beautiful. I appreciated that. Yeah, I was looking for

1351
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,680
Speaker 3: like more about like how Coblu was like choosing who

1352
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,960
Speaker 3: to collaborate with, and I guess he was just like,

1353
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 3: find me someone weird. Yeah, and they're like, we've got

1354
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:54,760
Speaker 3: the gal, We've got her, and it's oh my god.

1355
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:57,200
Speaker 4: She came Apparently she came to his attention because she'd

1356
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 4: done some posters for Apocalypse Now that were yeah kidding, yeah,

1357
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,719
Speaker 4: and you can actually see those and they're really great

1358
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 4: as well. So she was not a costume designer before

1359
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:09,640
Speaker 4: this movie. He just hired her because she was an

1360
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:11,759
Speaker 4: amazing graphic designer that rocks.

1361
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,560
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with Dracula's suit of armor in the

1362
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:19,640
Speaker 2: opening set because it looks like, yeah, it looks like

1363
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:20,880
Speaker 2: like muscles with.

1364
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 3: The skin removed, you know, it's like very sinewy.

1365
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:25,920
Speaker 2: I was like, that looks like the Bodies Exhibit.

1366
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 4: Yes, real bodies.

1367
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's like.

1368
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 2: Really beefy and bulky.

1369
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 4: And I was just like, what is this?

1370
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 2: And his helmet is wild?

1371
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1372
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 4: And then again also just all of the makeup design,

1373
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 4: like the every I think every monster look he does

1374
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:43,040
Speaker 4: is like a hit. It is so good.

1375
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:48,920
Speaker 3: It's that lucy outfit. Really, I gasped, Yeah.

1376
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 4: So thank thank you this movie for all of that.

1377
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 3: Indeed, the last thing that I had I was like

1378
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 3: ragging my brains for what movie we covered recently were

1379
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 3: this also came up? I'm curious what you both think

1380
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 3: about it, because this is Frau. But when this movie

1381
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:16,600
Speaker 3: came out, frank Rich, frank Rich, who you know, not

1382
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 3: a not a smitless record, but he is the producer

1383
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 3: of Succession, so no, he's anyways, but he wrote about

1384
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:30,519
Speaker 3: this movie in relation to the AIDS epidemic? What movie?

1385
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 3: Where were we talking about recently? Where it also was?

1386
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 2: It was was an interview with a vampire.

1387
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 3: No, it was more recent than that. I got a

1388
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 3: but but in that case, the movie was I think

1389
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:45,439
Speaker 3: the director was asked like, were you trying to like

1390
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:47,720
Speaker 3: make a comment on the AIDS epidemic? And he was like,

1391
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:50,720
Speaker 3: oh no, oh my god, because it because if he was,

1392
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:52,080
Speaker 3: it would have looked really bad.

1393
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,959
Speaker 2: Was the schol Yeah, I remember the conversation.

1394
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:00,639
Speaker 3: In this case, I wasn't able to find any reference

1395
01:19:00,760 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 3: of Copola acknowledging that that was something that he intended,

1396
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 3: But it was definitely something that was mentioned around the

1397
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 3: discourse of this movie when it came out, and it

1398
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 3: is still talked about now. There's an article I have

1399
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:17,200
Speaker 3: here from twenty twenty one from Film Days by a

1400
01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:21,680
Speaker 3: writer named Joshua Sorenson who sort of reflects on how

1401
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 3: he feels like this movie was in conversation with the

1402
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:28,200
Speaker 3: AIDS epidemic in nineteen ninety two. And yeah, I just

1403
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:33,679
Speaker 3: wanted to say that. I think it's like, I don't know, Yeah,

1404
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,080
Speaker 3: it feels it's kind.

1405
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:38,599
Speaker 4: Of a big blind spot, especially because the movie does

1406
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:43,160
Speaker 4: kind of collate vamporism with an STI. There's like because

1407
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:47,720
Speaker 4: Van Helstein talks about like civilization, yeah, and there's this.

1408
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 4: It's all very like vampism is very sexually transmitted in

1409
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 4: this movie. So it is kind of weird that it

1410
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 4: exists in this time where you know, it's such an

1411
01:19:57,479 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 4: incredible cause of death and and the movie's kind of like,

1412
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 4: we're not worried about that. Yeah, we are going to

1413
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:08,320
Speaker 4: make the allusions to it being sexually transmitted.

1414
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a lot of horror movies. It feels

1415
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 2: like a lot of horror movies, either maybe intentionally such

1416
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 2: as perhaps It follows draws this parallel, or people watching

1417
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 2: and consuming the movie draw the parallel, right, and that

1418
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 2: is you know, perhaps a cultural problem where because that

1419
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:37,600
Speaker 2: ultimately villainizes sti's and the people who have them. So

1420
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 2: for anyone who's like, oh, yeah, obviously, you know, vampires

1421
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,960
Speaker 2: sucking each other or sucking other people and transmitting their

1422
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:51,400
Speaker 2: vampirism and all of that being horrible, and that's the

1423
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:56,679
Speaker 2: same thing as contracting an STI it's not the best.

1424
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 4: I guess that's maybe just another example of FFC, like

1425
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 4: degaying this.

1426
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1427
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:07,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so a lot of the gay stuff that

1428
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:09,840
Speaker 4: was there in the book, or that kind of was

1429
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 4: an obvious parallel that you could make, has been kind

1430
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:12,799
Speaker 4: of omitted.

1431
01:21:13,720 --> 01:21:17,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. I have a bit from this piece by H.

1432
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:19,599
Speaker 3: Joshua Swords and where he I mean, he gets into

1433
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 3: it at length, but he sort of draws, I mean,

1434
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 3: he mostly draws it to Lucy's character and mentions the

1435
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 3: sort of de queering that FSC does. But he says quote.

1436
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 3: But even if Dracula's de queering is an attempt to

1437
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:37,000
Speaker 3: capture the increasing universality of the HIV AIDS epidemic, it

1438
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:39,759
Speaker 3: is textually undermined as the only two characters to contract

1439
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 3: disease on screen are the ones who are queer coded

1440
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:45,160
Speaker 3: Mina and Lucy. Because this piece is really pushing the

1441
01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:48,799
Speaker 3: mean and Lucy agenda, the film is caught between two mindsets.

1442
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 3: It seemingly aims to move beyond the stigmatic relationship between

1443
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,720
Speaker 3: the LGBTQ plus community and HIV AIDS and the public consciousness,

1444
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:58,479
Speaker 3: but that intention is not supported by the framing. The

1445
01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:00,840
Speaker 3: fact that Mina and Lucy contracted only because they sought

1446
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 3: it out recalls the I don't have it, do you

1447
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:05,200
Speaker 3: mentality that led to the spread of the epidemic in

1448
01:22:05,240 --> 01:22:07,720
Speaker 3: the first place. I don't know what to make of this.

1449
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 3: I kind of am glad FFC has never commented on it.

1450
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:14,679
Speaker 3: I don't really care to know what he thinks.

1451
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and maybe in a sense he wasn't qualified to

1452
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 4: talk about it anyway, So maybe we're maybe we're better

1453
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:21,760
Speaker 4: off that he steered clear.

1454
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. And also it's like I think again,

1455
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 3: going back to the original text, it was I guess

1456
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,920
Speaker 3: blood transfusions were super new at the time, and some

1457
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:34,799
Speaker 3: prem Stoker wasn't thinking much harder than like, this is wild.

1458
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 3: What if I made all these guys do it? Oh?

1459
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:40,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, the part where I think it's Arthur and then

1460
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:43,960
Speaker 2: one of the other boyfriends gives, like donates blood to

1461
01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 2: Lucy and I'm just like, do you even know what

1462
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 2: your blood type is?

1463
01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 3: You?

1464
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:49,479
Speaker 2: Are you the universal donor? Do you have a matching

1465
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:50,479
Speaker 2: blood type is Lucy.

1466
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:55,840
Speaker 3: That's our typet universal donor. Yeah, I just funny to

1467
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:59,240
Speaker 3: say that that was an element of the conversation. Yeah,

1468
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 3: I don't know what to make it, and yeah, yeah

1469
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:05,720
Speaker 3: nor I. Anyways, that was I think that was the

1470
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:07,599
Speaker 3: last thing that I had.

1471
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:12,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just love that. Like every thirty to ninety

1472
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:16,840
Speaker 2: seconds in this movie, there's just something on screen where

1473
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, either a costume or some

1474
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 2: special effect or blood gushing from something or blood being puked,

1475
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:32,240
Speaker 2: or furry palms of hands or Dracula climbing up the

1476
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:34,680
Speaker 2: wall of the castle or anything like that.

1477
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:41,160
Speaker 4: Such a dense movie, there's like so many shots. Well

1478
01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 4: well said, but yeah, I think I hope it's I

1479
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:47,840
Speaker 4: don't know if we've really clarified when we've been talking

1480
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:51,679
Speaker 4: about this, but this movie is so camp. It's so silly,

1481
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:54,639
Speaker 4: Like as much as it's got big themes and it's

1482
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,120
Speaker 4: kind of got like this lush production that makes it

1483
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:01,080
Speaker 4: feel like a prestige movie, it's also very very very silly,

1484
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:04,960
Speaker 4: And I mean the women have nothing to do basically there.

1485
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:08,880
Speaker 4: They most spend most of the movie gasping, writing and

1486
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:11,639
Speaker 4: gasping with a boob out like that is the role

1487
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 4: for a woman in this movie. Gary Oldman is like

1488
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 4: campus tits in it. Just everything he does, the bad accents.

1489
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:24,719
Speaker 3: Why does cast British people?

1490
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:25,439
Speaker 4: What are you doing?

1491
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:28,960
Speaker 2: She pronounced win on a writer pronounces the word clerk

1492
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:30,400
Speaker 2: like clerk.

1493
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:34,120
Speaker 4: There's also a moment where she says home we went to.

1494
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:40,960
Speaker 2: His then again, oh my gosh, and then oh, I

1495
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 2: forget what Keanu's line read. Oh he keeps saying beaudapest.

1496
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 2: I probably knows maybe how you pronounce it. And also

1497
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:54,560
Speaker 2: we love Keanu. But his excuse for this was I

1498
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:58,320
Speaker 2: was tired. He was like, you just did point break.

1499
01:24:58,360 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 2: I just did a lot of movies in a row.

1500
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 2: I kind of sleepy, so that's why I didn't do

1501
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:03,920
Speaker 2: a good job.

1502
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 3: You're like, that's what you say in the Francis Ford

1503
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:12,240
Speaker 3: Coulful movie, You're sleepy, wake up. I love it.

1504
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 4: Gary Oldman, I think does potentially the best evil cackle

1505
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,639
Speaker 4: that has ever been on screen. It's good Van Helsing,

1506
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:19,639
Speaker 4: very camp.

1507
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. I think Hopkins brings it.

1508
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:25,040
Speaker 4: Although he might be the worst person in this movie,

1509
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:28,200
Speaker 4: like the worst man, what do you mean in a

1510
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:30,840
Speaker 4: movie full of bad men? I think Van Helsing might

1511
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:31,880
Speaker 4: be kind of the character.

1512
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:34,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, it was like not the worst performance,

1513
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:35,040
Speaker 3: no no, no, no, no no no.

1514
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:36,880
Speaker 4: He does a great job. He does a great job.

1515
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 4: But it's like he's the like he's the toxic mask presence.

1516
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:43,800
Speaker 4: Like he's kind of worse than Dracula in a way.

1517
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:46,599
Speaker 4: Dracula is eating a lot of people, but Van Helsing's

1518
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:52,040
Speaker 4: just like Christian values but also kind of gleefully killing ladies.

1519
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, And we didn't get much into the like

1520
01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:57,760
Speaker 3: religious aspects, but I feel like it's like very much

1521
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:01,680
Speaker 3: in conversation with the like z a phobia of like

1522
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 3: basically any non Christian religion is the occult. You're like, ok.

1523
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:12,479
Speaker 2: Van Helsing describes Lucy. He says, after she's been bitten

1524
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 2: and turned into a vampire. He says, Lucy is not

1525
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 2: a random victim attacked by mere accident. She is a

1526
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 2: willing recruit, a breathless follower, a wanton follower, a devoted disciple.

1527
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:27,400
Speaker 2: She is the devil's concubine. Basically just like.

1528
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:32,800
Speaker 3: He's literally and I don't know why, like that that

1529
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,080
Speaker 3: did make me laugh when you because because he's literally

1530
01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:37,200
Speaker 3: like kind of jumping up and down. He's like walking

1531
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:40,479
Speaker 3: away and saying all this fucked up stuff. He's like,

1532
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,080
Speaker 3: she's married to the devil, and he's like also.

1533
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:48,479
Speaker 4: Doing something like I want an all female rock band

1534
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:49,720
Speaker 4: called Devil's Concubine.

1535
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:53,720
Speaker 3: We can work with this, yes.

1536
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:57,599
Speaker 2: Anthony Hopkins also plays the like clergyman at the very

1537
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:00,840
Speaker 2: beginning of the movie. Oh yeah, that him. He's in

1538
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:05,000
Speaker 2: like a scraggly wig and stuff. But yeah, he's the

1539
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 2: one where Dracula comes back from impaling thousands of people

1540
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:13,719
Speaker 2: and he's like, I denounce God and Anthony Hopkins priest

1541
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 2: is like no, don't stop it. And it's pretty good.

1542
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:23,280
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, there's just I love the like vampire orgy

1543
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:24,599
Speaker 2: room in the castle.

1544
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:26,280
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, where is.

1545
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:30,679
Speaker 4: The like prestige HBO series about Dracula's brides that will

1546
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:33,479
Speaker 4: justice for them? They the way they died was very

1547
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 4: lackluster for me.

1548
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I could have used again, and like I could

1549
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 3: he used some names. I could have used some names,

1550
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 3: could names and some stories? How did you become a vampire?

1551
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:48,639
Speaker 4: I'd love to see their story. Wow, just because they're

1552
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 4: just seemed to be having a great time. They're letsing off,

1553
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:56,000
Speaker 4: they they eat the occasional man, they eat the occasional baby,

1554
01:27:56,040 --> 01:28:00,479
Speaker 4: the eat the occasional horse. Yes, this horrible Christian man

1555
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:01,639
Speaker 4: comes and cuts their heads off.

1556
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:03,639
Speaker 3: It's just give him a chance.

1557
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:05,960
Speaker 2: Got to know them seriously.

1558
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:12,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. Meanwhile, we're celebrating the boring nuns. They're handing on crucifixes, boring,

1559
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 3: get a life, eat a horse.

1560
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:19,439
Speaker 2: I did appreciate the very least that, even though Mina

1561
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:23,960
Speaker 2: in the movie, you know, basically just forced into this

1562
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 2: love story that was invented by the movie, which was

1563
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:34,840
Speaker 2: written by James V. Hart. Yes, so he adapted the

1564
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:36,840
Speaker 2: book and wrote the screenplay for this movie.

1565
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 3: He's a His other credits are oh yeah, he did Hook.

1566
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:44,960
Speaker 3: And then he also went on to do Mary Shelley's Frankenstein,

1567
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:47,519
Speaker 3: which is always a story that she'd be adapted by

1568
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 3: a woman. Come on, come on, But for what it's worth,

1569
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:54,360
Speaker 3: even though she's not credited again as a one on ahead,

1570
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:59,720
Speaker 3: we took this script to Francis Ford Coppola and was like,

1571
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:01,719
Speaker 3: what do you think? And then.

1572
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:06,679
Speaker 4: As an apology for dropping out of gold Father three, Yeah.

1573
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:10,080
Speaker 3: Which which only I mean and good call by Winona

1574
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 3: on that one, because they didn't Sophia Coppola.

1575
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:18,400
Speaker 4: Replace her and Apparently the reason I haven't seen famously,

1576
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:21,960
Speaker 4: haven't seen any FF. But apparently the reason she's so

1577
01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:24,160
Speaker 4: bad in it is because she had one day to

1578
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:27,080
Speaker 4: prep for the role and that was a case of

1579
01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 4: nepotism maybe gone wrong.

1580
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 3: That's it, Yeah, that's It's one thing to hire your.

1581
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:34,080
Speaker 4: Magician's son, but she was just doing her dad a favor.

1582
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:40,040
Speaker 3: I know, I yeah, that's I'm that's Francis for Copla's fault.

1583
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:42,719
Speaker 3: That's not God because she wasn't she like a teenager

1584
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:46,599
Speaker 3: like she was. Also, Winona Writer is an amazing actor.

1585
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,120
Speaker 3: She's been like nominated for She was really on a

1586
01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:51,040
Speaker 3: roll before they were like, we have to kill her

1587
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:54,960
Speaker 3: because she shoplifted. Kill her, then kill me. I shoplift

1588
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 3: all the time.

1589
01:29:56,920 --> 01:30:01,400
Speaker 2: But anyway, so obviously Mena's role is change for the movie,

1590
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:04,960
Speaker 2: but I do appreciate that she doesn't. She's never like

1591
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:08,120
Speaker 2: well not never, but she doesn't ultimately become like the

1592
01:30:08,240 --> 01:30:10,840
Speaker 2: damsel in distress. I feel like this type of movie

1593
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 2: would have Oh, Dracula kidnaps her and then they have

1594
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:17,719
Speaker 2: to go and rescue her. Rather she's bait, which isn't

1595
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:21,679
Speaker 2: better really, but but at least at least they.

1596
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:24,640
Speaker 3: Bring her along. It makes me sad to be like,

1597
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:27,600
Speaker 3: but at least she knows she's bait because often they're like,

1598
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 3: she has no idea, don't tell her right, right, and

1599
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:34,240
Speaker 3: again like not to but like in the most recent

1600
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:38,880
Speaker 3: Dracula adaptation, the Lily Rose depth character is like inside

1601
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:41,280
Speaker 3: for ninety percent. I remember when she left the house

1602
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:45,519
Speaker 3: on purpose and I was like, but like, you know, Mina,

1603
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:49,680
Speaker 3: it's still not as active as the original book that

1604
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:51,599
Speaker 3: was written one hundred years before it came out.

1605
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:51,800
Speaker 5: But.

1606
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 4: She does. She does do the conclusion of the movie

1607
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:59,360
Speaker 4: like it's her, which is cool.

1608
01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?

1609
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:06,040
Speaker 3: That's all I have.

1610
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 2: I guess one last thing where Coppola brought in someone

1611
01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:19,639
Speaker 2: to coach Winona Ryder and Sadie Frost, who plays Lucy

1612
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:25,400
Speaker 2: during their like erotic scenes, because he felt uncomfortable discussing

1613
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 2: sexuality with these young actors, so he brings in an

1614
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:34,760
Speaker 2: acting coach named Greta Seacat, which doesn't seem like quite

1615
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:38,760
Speaker 2: the same thing as a like intimacy coordinator. But I

1616
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:41,640
Speaker 2: don't think that existed writer, right, But at least it

1617
01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:45,280
Speaker 2: was something. It was some attempt to hopefully, and I

1618
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:48,760
Speaker 2: don't know how that went exactly with this acting coach,

1619
01:31:48,920 --> 01:31:51,960
Speaker 2: but at least there was some attempt.

1620
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 4: Apparently the same thing happened with the Brides of Dracula,

1621
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:57,519
Speaker 4: who had all been cast on the basis that they

1622
01:31:57,560 --> 01:31:59,400
Speaker 4: would be nude in the movie, but then when it

1623
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:01,800
Speaker 4: came time to shoot, everyone was too nervous to ask

1624
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:03,120
Speaker 4: them to take their clothes off.

1625
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 3: Oh wow.

1626
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:06,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so I think he ended up getting his

1627
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:10,240
Speaker 4: magicians on to ask them. Well, so maybe that's why

1628
01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:12,439
Speaker 4: he ended up hiring Greta.

1629
01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:18,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. Never never, no offense to any listening male magicians,

1630
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:23,200
Speaker 3: but never underestimate the delusional confidence of a male magician

1631
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:26,960
Speaker 3: to ask you to do something you don't want to do.

1632
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:30,559
Speaker 4: I think potentially they did want to do they didn't

1633
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:31,960
Speaker 4: mean to it, but.

1634
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:35,400
Speaker 3: It's like the magician. You dispatched the magician. It's just

1635
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:39,360
Speaker 3: it's insulting. I do appreciate at least, I mean again,

1636
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:43,200
Speaker 3: it's such a little thing. But like a director that

1637
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:46,240
Speaker 3: knows their limits, that is like, this is out of

1638
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:49,040
Speaker 3: my comfort zone, which is like directors are entitled to

1639
01:32:49,479 --> 01:32:51,519
Speaker 3: have things outside of their comfort zone as long as

1640
01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:52,360
Speaker 3: they take care of it.

1641
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:55,120
Speaker 4: I've got some I've got some kind of warm, fuzzy

1642
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:58,479
Speaker 4: feelings for FFC after researching this. I have no idea

1643
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:00,880
Speaker 4: what he's like Beyond this. He's probably done some really

1644
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:03,559
Speaker 4: horrible stuff. But apparently even when this movie was coming out,

1645
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:06,160
Speaker 4: he was so afraid of finding out if it was

1646
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:08,720
Speaker 4: a success because his career was really riding on it.

1647
01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:09,160
Speaker 3: Right.

1648
01:33:09,439 --> 01:33:12,720
Speaker 4: He took all of his family on holiday and he

1649
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:15,280
Speaker 4: couldn't look at it. He was too stressed and scared.

1650
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:17,760
Speaker 4: And he finally got his wife to be, like to

1651
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:19,920
Speaker 4: check the box office and she's like, add it up,

1652
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:22,800
Speaker 4: it's a huge hit. But he was just like, really

1653
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:23,679
Speaker 4: scared and nervous.

1654
01:33:24,560 --> 01:33:28,200
Speaker 3: I for what I can tell, and like, I'm listeners

1655
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 3: sent me straight if I'm wrong. He's a relatively scandal

1656
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:32,000
Speaker 3: free director.

1657
01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:32,400
Speaker 4: Cool.

1658
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:36,559
Speaker 3: I was also very like, he's not my favorite director

1659
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:39,120
Speaker 3: by any stretch of the imagination, but I just like

1660
01:33:39,439 --> 01:33:41,800
Speaker 3: I do like watching him talk. I like that he

1661
01:33:41,960 --> 01:33:44,680
Speaker 3: make takes big, weird swings even when I don't like them.

1662
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,400
Speaker 3: And I really like that he made Anthony Hopkins play

1663
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:52,599
Speaker 3: zip Zapps off like it does seem like, you know, comparatively,

1664
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:55,680
Speaker 3: especially in the generation of directors that he's a part of.

1665
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:58,240
Speaker 3: He seems like a relatively sweet person.

1666
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 2: Right, He's coming off of making what's largely considered some

1667
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:05,960
Speaker 2: of the greatest movies in American film history, between the

1668
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:09,240
Speaker 2: first two Godfather movies and Apocalypse Now, so you think

1669
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:12,719
Speaker 2: that would inflate his ego so much that he would

1670
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:16,479
Speaker 2: just be a terror on set. But it seems like

1671
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 2: maybe not so.

1672
01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:26,320
Speaker 3: Good guy, question the bars, but it is, I mean,

1673
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 3: his career is there there. Guest of the show Maya

1674
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:35,320
Speaker 3: made a video when Megalopolis came out that had like

1675
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:38,760
Speaker 3: traced his like wild history and like movie finance, where

1676
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 3: like if he didn't have the winery, he'd be so

1677
01:34:41,479 --> 01:34:45,320
Speaker 3: fucked many times over. But like that, even after one

1678
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:47,519
Speaker 3: of the other Copla movies we've covered that I always

1679
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:49,679
Speaker 3: forget is directed by him, is Peggy Sho got married

1680
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:54,479
Speaker 3: and like so he I don't know if like that's

1681
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:56,720
Speaker 3: like a real artist. That's so cool that he was

1682
01:34:56,760 --> 01:34:59,920
Speaker 3: still like trying shit out and is still trying shit

1683
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:05,360
Speaker 3: that is often straight up bad, but it definitely not safe,

1684
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:08,160
Speaker 3: Like this movie is not making safe choices.

1685
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:12,400
Speaker 2: Everyone, like producers, critics, everyone in the industry basically thought

1686
01:35:12,439 --> 01:35:15,360
Speaker 2: this movie would be a huge flop at the box office,

1687
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:18,600
Speaker 2: and we're like surprised that it wasn't because it was

1688
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:21,920
Speaker 2: made for a budget of forty million dollars, which seems

1689
01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:24,479
Speaker 2: less than I would have thought because of how much

1690
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:27,639
Speaker 2: like just money you see on screen with the practical

1691
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:29,680
Speaker 2: sets and effects and costumes and all that.

1692
01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:32,559
Speaker 3: Which he dealt with by shooting and this ended up.

1693
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:34,200
Speaker 3: I thought it was like a creative choice because he

1694
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 3: was like paying homage to the original Monster movies or whatever.

1695
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:39,080
Speaker 3: But he shot it entirely on sound stages. I think

1696
01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:42,040
Speaker 3: it looks awesome because it shot on sound stages. Yeah.

1697
01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 2: Well, part of that was because he had gone over

1698
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:49,400
Speaker 2: budget and like time scheduling for his previous movies, and

1699
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 2: he's like, I don't want to make anyone mad again.

1700
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:55,240
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it, play it safe and like shoot

1701
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:56,800
Speaker 2: inside kind of thing.

1702
01:35:57,280 --> 01:35:59,400
Speaker 4: This way, the studio execs could keep an eye on him,

1703
01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:01,160
Speaker 4: and they could visit set every day as well and

1704
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 4: see what he was doing.

1705
01:36:03,640 --> 01:36:05,679
Speaker 3: They're like, okay, do we do we have is Reeves

1706
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:08,960
Speaker 3: playing zipzabsop? Good good job.

1707
01:36:09,439 --> 01:36:11,559
Speaker 2: But anyway, made for a budget of forty million dollars

1708
01:36:11,640 --> 01:36:15,360
Speaker 2: and grossed two hundred and nineteen million dollars.

1709
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:17,439
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety two dollars, it was one of the

1710
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:18,559
Speaker 3: biggest movies of the year.

1711
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:21,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it beat out like Back to the Future two

1712
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:23,559
Speaker 2: and damn so good for him.

1713
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:28,040
Speaker 4: Do you think this movie is remembered particularly, not as.

1714
01:36:28,040 --> 01:36:31,080
Speaker 2: Much as I would say. Obviously has a cult following.

1715
01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:34,200
Speaker 2: Obviously people return to it, but I feel like it

1716
01:36:34,280 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 2: doesn't get brought up quite as much as you would expect.

1717
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:38,599
Speaker 4: That's kind of how I feel too.

1718
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:42,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been I until you started raving about it.

1719
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:45,080
Speaker 3: I don't know if I even knew it existed till

1720
01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:48,799
Speaker 3: like the last couple of years. But also, the Dracula

1721
01:36:48,840 --> 01:36:51,639
Speaker 3: space is very crowd Yeah, there's a lot of there's

1722
01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:54,400
Speaker 3: a lot of competition in Dracula movies, but this is

1723
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 3: like definitely one of my favorites. Yeah, it's number six

1724
01:36:58,280 --> 01:36:59,640
Speaker 3: on Vultures Draculas.

1725
01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:02,960
Speaker 4: Wow, number six, Sorry, what's number one?

1726
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:06,200
Speaker 3: I think it's the original nose fora tu Let me

1727
01:37:06,360 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 3: check which you know, fair.

1728
01:37:08,439 --> 01:37:10,280
Speaker 4: Enough Normalstracula two thousand.

1729
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:15,439
Speaker 3: This is technically Dracular rankings Dracula Performance Rankings. Gary Oldman

1730
01:37:15,520 --> 01:37:16,880
Speaker 3: comes in at number six.

1731
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:17,599
Speaker 4: Oh wow.

1732
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:20,960
Speaker 3: Number five is Christopher Lee, who apparently played Dragula in

1733
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 3: Like Movies fifteen.

1734
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:26,439
Speaker 2: Oh wow, he definitely was in like A nineteen fifty nine.

1735
01:37:26,520 --> 01:37:28,920
Speaker 3: I want to say yes, he started playing Dragula in

1736
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:30,720
Speaker 3: nineteen fifty eight and played him all the way through

1737
01:37:30,760 --> 01:37:34,200
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six, So maybe that's out of sheer volume

1738
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:37,839
Speaker 3: actually knows Vatu. The original Nos Foraratu is number four.

1739
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:42,000
Speaker 2: Number three played by Max Shrekrap Exactly.

1740
01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:47,200
Speaker 3: Number three is William Marshall in Blacula and screen Blacula Scream.

1741
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:51,600
Speaker 3: Number two is something I haven't seen klaus Kinski in

1742
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:56,240
Speaker 3: the Werner Herzog remake of Nos Farratu. He's supposed to

1743
01:37:56,240 --> 01:38:01,479
Speaker 3: be the most soulful Draculum. And then number one's bella logo. Fine, fine,

1744
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:06,040
Speaker 3: I get it sure below below anyways, it's a crowded space,

1745
01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:10,920
Speaker 3: the Dracula space. Yeah, where does Dard Butler? Dr Butler

1746
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:12,920
Speaker 3: comes in at number twenty nine.

1747
01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:15,879
Speaker 2: Brutal, brutal of how many.

1748
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:17,800
Speaker 3: Thirty two?

1749
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:22,720
Speaker 4: That makes me want to see that movie so much more.

1750
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:26,519
Speaker 3: It sounds like a truly perfect candidate for your show.

1751
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:29,960
Speaker 4: Yea, yeah, I think Dracula's on a plane at one point,

1752
01:38:30,360 --> 01:38:33,799
Speaker 4: Oh my god, you should I think instead of the Demeter.

1753
01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:34,519
Speaker 4: It's a plane.

1754
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:39,160
Speaker 3: Have you seen I Frankenstein? No, Oh my god, you've

1755
01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:44,680
Speaker 3: got to cover Bye Frankenstein. Yeah, it's that but Frankenstein.

1756
01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:48,439
Speaker 3: And it's Aaron what's his name, Aaron Eckhart, coming off

1757
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:51,320
Speaker 3: of his playing two Face. He's going to start a

1758
01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:55,280
Speaker 3: franchise and it does not happen. It's nice, is there,

1759
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:56,599
Speaker 3: fab It's great?

1760
01:38:56,800 --> 01:39:01,559
Speaker 2: That's awesome. Well, does the movie past the Bechdel test?

1761
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:02,080
Speaker 4: Real thing?

1762
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:02,880
Speaker 3: I do think it does.

1763
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:07,519
Speaker 2: Okay, here's what I've concluded. I obviously, Mina and Lucy

1764
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:10,400
Speaker 2: talk quite a bit in a number of different scenes,

1765
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:15,200
Speaker 2: and sometimes they're talking about a typewriter or a dream

1766
01:39:15,680 --> 01:39:17,959
Speaker 2: or a book, but it's almost always in the context

1767
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:21,120
Speaker 2: of like, oh, you're writing, you're using your typewriter to

1768
01:39:21,200 --> 01:39:23,640
Speaker 2: write a letter to a man, or I had a

1769
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:28,080
Speaker 2: dream about hetero sex with a man. So, and then

1770
01:39:28,479 --> 01:39:32,440
Speaker 2: they more explicitly talk about Jonathan, about Lucy's three boyfriends,

1771
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,640
Speaker 2: about Dracula. So it's very even if there's like a

1772
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:39,919
Speaker 2: kind of almost technical pass, I feel like the context

1773
01:39:40,040 --> 01:39:41,880
Speaker 2: or the subtext is always still about.

1774
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:45,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, men, and like the point of everymen scene is

1775
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:48,320
Speaker 4: ends up about sex or men, right, I think.

1776
01:39:48,280 --> 01:39:50,840
Speaker 3: So, Yeah, let me see what the technical passes were,

1777
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:52,840
Speaker 3: because I did kind of forget, Oh.

1778
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:55,800
Speaker 2: Did you consult Bechdel test dot com, Bechdel test dot com,

1779
01:39:56,479 --> 01:39:57,439
Speaker 2: scholarly journal.

1780
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:00,639
Speaker 3: Yeah. People think we spend the who whole show trying

1781
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:03,200
Speaker 3: to figure this out and sometimes we don't even remember

1782
01:40:03,280 --> 01:40:06,960
Speaker 3: to do it. Attention it does. Yeah, so I think

1783
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:09,240
Speaker 3: it's just technical passes. I guess that, Like, I mean,

1784
01:40:09,439 --> 01:40:12,559
Speaker 3: it doesn't pass the Bechdel test if by in our estimation.

1785
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:15,439
Speaker 3: I do think that like the only thing I could

1786
01:40:15,479 --> 01:40:18,720
Speaker 3: give it sort of a like it's trying is like

1787
01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:23,280
Speaker 3: to women talking about passion and lust during a time

1788
01:40:23,280 --> 01:40:26,519
Speaker 3: where that wasn't permissible, but it is connected obviously to

1789
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:31,360
Speaker 3: like hetero lust, but polyamorous hetero ust Yeah.

1790
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:33,720
Speaker 4: I mean, does it count if they're just like we're

1791
01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:35,080
Speaker 4: both horny when that.

1792
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:38,519
Speaker 3: Wasn't legal, like get your head cut off? In this culture?

1793
01:40:38,880 --> 01:40:41,479
Speaker 2: Does it pass the test when they kiss each other?

1794
01:40:41,600 --> 01:40:46,600
Speaker 2: Because I would argue that kissing is communication, It's true.

1795
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:48,760
Speaker 4: The language of love, It's true.

1796
01:40:49,160 --> 01:40:52,640
Speaker 3: I think I think you could I would agree to

1797
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:55,479
Speaker 3: a soft pass argument, but like it's not you know,

1798
01:40:55,880 --> 01:40:57,280
Speaker 3: if we had to talk about it for this long,

1799
01:40:57,320 --> 01:40:58,280
Speaker 3: it's not a great bath.

1800
01:41:00,240 --> 01:41:05,560
Speaker 2: But examining it through the Bechdel cast Nipple scale, this

1801
01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:09,080
Speaker 2: scale where we rate the movie zero to five nipples

1802
01:41:09,320 --> 01:41:13,960
Speaker 2: based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. Ooh,

1803
01:41:14,120 --> 01:41:15,880
Speaker 2: this one's tricky. I think it's sort of like a

1804
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:18,400
Speaker 2: split down the middle. For me, I would give it

1805
01:41:18,880 --> 01:41:22,880
Speaker 2: ten out of ten on the Horny scale. I would

1806
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:24,640
Speaker 2: give it probably like an eight out of ten on

1807
01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:30,720
Speaker 2: the rompometer. She'll give it like, actually, probably two nipples

1808
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:36,599
Speaker 2: on the nipples scale because of the adaptation changes made

1809
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:42,000
Speaker 2: specifically to Mina's character, making her less active, forcing her

1810
01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:48,519
Speaker 2: into another romantic situation which might involve coercion, We're not sure,

1811
01:41:48,920 --> 01:41:52,840
Speaker 2: might just be that she's a reincarnation of someone, but

1812
01:41:53,360 --> 01:41:57,200
Speaker 2: still it feels there's like coersive elements to it that,

1813
01:41:57,479 --> 01:42:02,240
Speaker 2: you know, Dracula's playing Jedi tricks on her or whatever. Unclear.

1814
01:42:03,080 --> 01:42:07,519
Speaker 2: The representation of Romani people and the kind of albeit

1815
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:13,000
Speaker 2: brief but villainization of Islam should have been deleted from

1816
01:42:13,400 --> 01:42:17,200
Speaker 2: the movie, and yet it wasn't. Yeah, I don't know.

1817
01:42:17,360 --> 01:42:21,479
Speaker 2: I just wish that the movie was more gay and

1818
01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:28,839
Speaker 2: less let's punish women for having sexuality. So two nipples,

1819
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:32,439
Speaker 2: but maybe that's too much even but I just it's

1820
01:42:32,520 --> 01:42:36,160
Speaker 2: so camp, it's so awesome, the production design and the

1821
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:38,120
Speaker 2: costume design all the time. I know that doesn't factory

1822
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:40,600
Speaker 2: into the nipples scale, but like it's just hard not

1823
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:45,160
Speaker 2: for me to be obsessed with this movie. Ye, so yeah,

1824
01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:49,640
Speaker 2: I'll give it two nipples, and I'll give one to

1825
01:42:49,840 --> 01:42:57,639
Speaker 2: Winona Ryder's pronunciation of Clark. She's like, oh, Jonathan doesn't

1826
01:42:57,760 --> 01:43:01,800
Speaker 2: want me to marry him because she thinks that he's

1827
01:43:01,880 --> 01:43:07,880
Speaker 2: not worthy because he's just a law Clark. And then

1828
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:11,640
Speaker 2: I'll give my oh, I'll give my other nipple to

1829
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:16,800
Speaker 2: this scene where Lucy has approached Quincy and she's like,

1830
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:17,759
Speaker 2: oh my god.

1831
01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:18,639
Speaker 4: It's so big.

1832
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:22,680
Speaker 3: Can I touch it? And then it's just mean of

1833
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:27,479
Speaker 3: being like, my friend Lucy is amazing. I love that.

1834
01:43:28,280 --> 01:43:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it ends up being about Quincy's knife, but

1835
01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:32,280
Speaker 2: it's really about.

1836
01:43:32,120 --> 01:43:34,840
Speaker 3: Why do you think that a lesser movie would not

1837
01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:37,840
Speaker 3: to start the episode again, but like a lesser movie

1838
01:43:37,880 --> 01:43:40,920
Speaker 3: would make Lucy out to be this like big joke,

1839
01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:44,840
Speaker 3: like broad, you know, slutty character, and she's not that.

1840
01:43:44,960 --> 01:43:48,840
Speaker 3: She's not punished. She's punished about as as one could be.

1841
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:52,400
Speaker 3: But it isn't like, oh, we shouldn't like or respect

1842
01:43:52,439 --> 01:43:56,040
Speaker 3: this character, Like this character isn't worth virtuous Mina's time,

1843
01:43:56,160 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 3: Like she's like, wow, that's awesome.

1844
01:43:58,240 --> 01:44:01,080
Speaker 2: I love that she does that. It's great. So that's

1845
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:04,559
Speaker 2: who gets my nipples. And I love the movie the.

1846
01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:07,320
Speaker 3: End I'm going to go I'll go to as well.

1847
01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:10,479
Speaker 3: I feel like as a yardstick, it is like so gorgeous,

1848
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:14,160
Speaker 3: it is so campy. But if the movie from nineteen

1849
01:44:14,200 --> 01:44:16,439
Speaker 3: ninety two is less gay than the book from eighteen

1850
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:19,320
Speaker 3: ninety seven, it was a problem. We have a problem.

1851
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:22,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think that the Mina adjustments, like it

1852
01:44:23,040 --> 01:44:27,280
Speaker 3: was an attempt. I didn't love the attempt. I liked

1853
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:31,000
Speaker 3: the idea of like exploring this character's passion and like

1854
01:44:31,240 --> 01:44:34,400
Speaker 3: the restrictions of the time that Bramstoker kind of probably

1855
01:44:34,439 --> 01:44:36,760
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been able to or maybe not thought much of.

1856
01:44:37,880 --> 01:44:40,400
Speaker 3: But I just didn't I felt like the direction they

1857
01:44:40,439 --> 01:44:43,760
Speaker 3: did it was very nineteen ninety two, very yeah, like

1858
01:44:44,160 --> 01:44:46,800
Speaker 3: erotic thrillery in a way that I feel like didn't

1859
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:50,160
Speaker 3: really do the character much of a favor. But it's

1860
01:44:50,320 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 3: like such a great movie.

1861
01:44:51,360 --> 01:44:51,600
Speaker 4: I do.

1862
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:57,880
Speaker 3: Ship Mina and Lucy. I do love their friendship. I

1863
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:02,400
Speaker 3: think that they are the best on screen pairing, and

1864
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:05,679
Speaker 3: I wish that they had just run away from whatever

1865
01:45:05,760 --> 01:45:07,519
Speaker 3: the fuck was going on in this movie.

1866
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that they should have paired off and

1867
01:45:10,120 --> 01:45:14,640
Speaker 2: then Lucy's three boyfriends should have gotten everybody.

1868
01:45:14,320 --> 01:45:21,120
Speaker 4: Should just be gay, be gay, cry eat babies. But

1869
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:23,760
Speaker 4: did you do not think that their kiss was a

1870
01:45:23,800 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 4: little bit male gaze?

1871
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:27,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1872
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:30,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like drack keels like and now you're gonna kiss.

1873
01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:33,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the way that like Lucy's tits are

1874
01:45:33,479 --> 01:45:37,040
Speaker 2: out and every scene gratuitously, it is very gratuitous.

1875
01:45:38,280 --> 01:45:41,320
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm not I could. I was like

1876
01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:45,559
Speaker 3: it was a hot kid. Oh no, I think you're right,

1877
01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:50,599
Speaker 3: You're right, and we have to say it. Yeah, I'll

1878
01:45:50,600 --> 01:45:54,519
Speaker 3: go to nipples wanted to mean and one to Lucy perfect.

1879
01:45:55,439 --> 01:45:57,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think for all of the reasons you've said,

1880
01:45:57,520 --> 01:46:00,160
Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm gonna also give it two nipples. I've

1881
01:46:00,200 --> 01:46:04,680
Speaker 4: got consensus. One other thing that I remembered about why

1882
01:46:04,680 --> 01:46:07,200
Speaker 4: I hate Van helsing, and it's just symbolic of like

1883
01:46:07,280 --> 01:46:09,479
Speaker 4: the kind of man stuff that's all over this movie

1884
01:46:10,080 --> 01:46:12,920
Speaker 4: is at the end of the movie, Winona's turning into

1885
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:15,160
Speaker 4: a vampire, and she's like, gonna try and seduce him

1886
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:18,080
Speaker 4: and turn him into a vampire, And so she kisses him,

1887
01:46:18,080 --> 01:46:20,200
Speaker 4: but he fully kisses her back. He's like yeah, He's

1888
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:22,800
Speaker 4: like great, Yeah, I've been waiting. I assumed this would

1889
01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:26,360
Speaker 4: happen for me at some point based on what he's

1890
01:46:26,600 --> 01:46:30,640
Speaker 4: so annoying. Yeah, it's like, yeah, there's just man's fingerprints

1891
01:46:30,680 --> 01:46:33,559
Speaker 4: all over this production, and it really holds back any

1892
01:46:33,640 --> 01:46:36,200
Speaker 4: of the things that's trying to say about women's sexuality,

1893
01:46:36,760 --> 01:46:41,519
Speaker 4: surprising to no one. So anyway, Yeah, two nipples. I'll

1894
01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:45,679
Speaker 4: give one to the costume designer Ako, and I'll give

1895
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:49,080
Speaker 4: the other two Feminist icon, the pile of rats.

1896
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:51,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my god, you've got to go to the

1897
01:46:51,800 --> 01:46:55,719
Speaker 2: pile of remi icon, queer icon, that pile of rats. Everything.

1898
01:46:56,040 --> 01:46:59,519
Speaker 3: One more nice thing about my two favorite male actors

1899
01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:05,080
Speaker 3: in this movie was that Francis for Coppola did encourage

1900
01:47:05,200 --> 01:47:07,639
Speaker 3: Gary Oldman to say gross things to people in her ear.

1901
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:10,280
Speaker 3: So he was complicent in that, which when on a

1902
01:47:10,360 --> 01:47:12,280
Speaker 3: rider would say later she was very uncomfortable with. She

1903
01:47:12,360 --> 01:47:15,479
Speaker 3: really didn't like it. She felt unsafe. I guess that

1904
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:20,439
Speaker 3: Francis Ford Coppola asked Keanu and Anthony Hopkins to do

1905
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:23,160
Speaker 3: the same thing, and they were like, no, we're not

1906
01:47:23,320 --> 01:47:25,640
Speaker 3: going to do that. That does She's an actor. I

1907
01:47:25,720 --> 01:47:29,320
Speaker 3: think she'll be okay. And I love those guys, so

1908
01:47:29,400 --> 01:47:31,080
Speaker 3: that I was glad to know that they did the

1909
01:47:31,200 --> 01:47:31,519
Speaker 3: right thing.

1910
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:36,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Anthony Hopkins also apparently she was afraid of fire.

1911
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:38,080
Speaker 4: She has a like lifelong fear of fire, and so

1912
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:39,600
Speaker 4: they had to do that scene where they're in a

1913
01:47:39,680 --> 01:47:41,880
Speaker 4: ring of fire. And as soon as they started filming,

1914
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 4: he picked her up and carried her out of the fire.

1915
01:47:43,960 --> 01:47:46,320
Speaker 4: He was like, very protective of her. And yeah, he

1916
01:47:46,360 --> 01:47:48,960
Speaker 4: also didn't he didn't want to shout you slut at

1917
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:52,280
Speaker 4: her on a on a film set, which was you know, as.

1918
01:47:52,280 --> 01:47:55,120
Speaker 3: A low bar. Yeah. I was like, wow, femin it's

1919
01:47:55,200 --> 01:47:59,080
Speaker 3: not called what men of so many men want to

1920
01:47:59,160 --> 01:48:04,519
Speaker 3: yell at. Well, you know, there's a lot of men

1921
01:48:04,640 --> 01:48:07,640
Speaker 3: barely clearing the bar of decency in this in the

1922
01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:11,640
Speaker 3: story of this production. Yeah, did we do it.

1923
01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:15,519
Speaker 2: We did the episode. Chrystal, Thank you so much, thank

1924
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:16,640
Speaker 2: you for joining.

1925
01:48:16,400 --> 01:48:18,679
Speaker 4: Us, Thank you for having me, And if you're listening,

1926
01:48:19,240 --> 01:48:21,880
Speaker 4: allow me one last shameless plug and if you're anything

1927
01:48:21,960 --> 01:48:24,639
Speaker 4: like me and two weeks between episodes of The Bechdel

1928
01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:27,160
Speaker 4: Cast is far too long, feel free to check out

1929
01:48:27,200 --> 01:48:30,920
Speaker 4: camp Classics for more of my unqualified opinions about movies.

1930
01:48:31,240 --> 01:48:33,600
Speaker 3: Amazing. Yeah, please cover I Frankenstein.

1931
01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:36,240
Speaker 4: Wait, I am going to need to move on from

1932
01:48:36,280 --> 01:48:37,160
Speaker 4: vampires at some point.

1933
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:41,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. And guess who's gonna be waiting for you? HOODI Frankenstein,

1934
01:48:41,479 --> 01:48:42,400
Speaker 3: hoodie nunchuck.

1935
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:45,240
Speaker 4: You did not say hoodie or nunchuck earlier.

1936
01:48:46,160 --> 01:48:49,680
Speaker 3: Sexy hoodie nunchuck. I love my favorite shot in all

1937
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:54,160
Speaker 3: of movies. They showed the passage of time of like

1938
01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:58,360
Speaker 3: three hundred years of just a static shot of I

1939
01:48:58,520 --> 01:49:01,320
Speaker 3: Frankenstein on top of them out and swinging nun chucks

1940
01:49:01,320 --> 01:49:04,559
Speaker 3: and they're like three hundred years past. It just cuts

1941
01:49:04,600 --> 01:49:07,559
Speaker 3: to the presence. You're gonna love it. Oh, I wish

1942
01:49:07,560 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 3: I could see it again for the first time. I

1943
01:49:09,560 --> 01:49:09,840
Speaker 3: love it.

1944
01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:13,120
Speaker 2: Where can people follow you online?

1945
01:49:13,560 --> 01:49:16,600
Speaker 4: So I'm at Crystal We'll See You Now on Instagram

1946
01:49:16,960 --> 01:49:21,160
Speaker 4: and TikTok, and my podcast is at KEMP Classics Podcast

1947
01:49:21,360 --> 01:49:21,920
Speaker 4: on Instagram.

1948
01:49:22,360 --> 01:49:22,559
Speaker 3: Yay.

1949
01:49:23,640 --> 01:49:27,720
Speaker 2: You can follow us on Instagram as well. At Bechdelcast.

1950
01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:32,040
Speaker 2: You can also subscribe to our Patreon aka Matreon. That's

1951
01:49:32,080 --> 01:49:34,760
Speaker 2: the best way to support the show. It's only five

1952
01:49:34,840 --> 01:49:37,519
Speaker 2: dollars a month, and you get access to two bonus

1953
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:42,920
Speaker 2: episodes every month, and the entire back catalog of it's

1954
01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:44,960
Speaker 2: almost two hundred bonus episodes.

1955
01:49:45,439 --> 01:49:48,280
Speaker 3: So there's no time as a brutal mistress.

1956
01:49:48,479 --> 01:49:52,040
Speaker 2: And I think that's where our I Frankenstein episode lives.

1957
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:54,680
Speaker 2: That was a Matreon episode if I remember correctly.

1958
01:49:54,439 --> 01:49:56,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that we've Caitlin let me do that one as

1959
01:49:56,720 --> 01:50:01,960
Speaker 3: a treat and then entered the community. I frank I

1960
01:50:02,320 --> 01:50:05,559
Speaker 3: owe you as a joke. If it came a passion,

1961
01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:09,559
Speaker 3: I owe you a debt of gratitude, thank you so much. Yeah,

1962
01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:11,519
Speaker 3: thank you for thanking me again, of course.

1963
01:50:12,880 --> 01:50:16,960
Speaker 2: And uh yeah, check out our link tree. There's links

1964
01:50:17,320 --> 01:50:20,800
Speaker 2: there to stuff. Link tree slash. Bechdel Cast love you,

1965
01:50:21,840 --> 01:50:23,400
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye, goodbye.

1966
01:50:24,720 --> 01:50:25,120
Speaker 1: There is.

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01:50:29,720 --> 01:50:32,960
Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

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01:50:33,040 --> 01:50:36,880
Speaker 2: Caitlin Dorante and Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1969
01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:40,200
Speaker 2: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1970
01:50:40,320 --> 01:50:44,639
Speaker 2: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Volskrosensky. Our logo and merch

1971
01:50:44,840 --> 01:50:47,760
Speaker 2: is designed by Jamie Loftis, and a special thanks to

1972
01:50:47,800 --> 01:50:52,200
Speaker 2: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1973
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:53,800
Speaker 2: link Tree Slash Bechdel Cast