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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a fun night

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Speaker 1: out on the town end up with severe stomach cramps,

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Speaker 1: intense projectile vomiting, a nine to one one call, and

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Speaker 1: a trip to the er? How did that happen? I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with

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Speaker 1: us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. Well,

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Speaker 1: it all starts out pretty innocently. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 2: Plan was out drinking at a bar last night when

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Speaker 2: she called him saying she was coming home and wanted

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Speaker 2: to have a drink with him at the house.

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Speaker 1: He told him.

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Speaker 2: After two drinks, he started feeling sick, then throwing up

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Speaker 2: for thirty minutes before he can manage to call for help.

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Speaker 1: Out drinking at a bar. The lady he calls the

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Speaker 1: mail says she wants to have a drink with him.

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Speaker 1: He agrees, she goes to his place, and then suddenly,

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Speaker 1: after they have drinks at his place, he begins projectile vomiting,

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Speaker 1: vomiting for thirty minutes, thirty straight minutes with me in

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Speaker 1: all Star Pound makes sense of what we know right now.

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Speaker 1: But first to doctor Kendall Crowns. The chief medical Examiner,

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Speaker 1: Terrence County. That's fort Worth. Never lack of business there,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to say. Doctor Kendall Crowns, Lecturer, University Texas

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Speaker 1: and Texas Christian University Medical School, Doctor Crowns, should vomiting, projectile,

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Speaker 1: painful vomiting last thirty minutes.

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Speaker 3: Well, not typically, but occasionally in instances in which you

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Speaker 3: might have food poising or got a hold of a

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Speaker 3: bacteria like chicella or something along those lines. What shagella salmonilla?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 1: Is shaguella? Is it salmonella or is it something different?

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Speaker 3: They're different?

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Speaker 1: What is shigella?

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Speaker 3: They're bacteria that are associated with food that can get

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Speaker 3: into your system and then they can cause basically food

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Speaker 3: poisoning and can even cause well they'll cause vomiting, protect

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Speaker 3: projectile vomiting, and then eventually it can cause haemorrhagic vomiting

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Speaker 3: as they cause irritation of stomach lining.

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Speaker 1: What is haemorrhagic vomiting?

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Speaker 3: Your blood bloody vomit?

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Speaker 1: Okay, Shagella, you said a bacteria that gets into your food.

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Speaker 1: Could it get into your drink?

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Speaker 3: Probably not unless you're drinking something like that has a

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Speaker 3: milk product or something along those lines.

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Speaker 1: So Shagella is from milk products.

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Speaker 3: You can get food poisoning from bad milk and but

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Speaker 3: not alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what is salmonella? I thought that is the

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Speaker 1: bacteria you get in food and drink.

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Speaker 3: It's also another bacteria that's associated with food poisoning.

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Speaker 1: Because I've never heard of schigella until right now. When

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Speaker 1: you say bacteria, where does it come from?

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Speaker 3: It can be on your skin, it can be in

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Speaker 3: the whatever the surfaces that you're around. It can be

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Speaker 3: around anything. It's just the dirtiness of the environment you're in.

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Speaker 3: That's what it's typically called.

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Speaker 1: As opposed to salmonella, which is a bacteria that grows

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Speaker 1: inside the food.

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Speaker 3: Salmonilla can usually the associated with growing within the food,

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Speaker 3: and it can also be on It can be in

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Speaker 3: the environment as well.

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Speaker 1: Let me understand something to Nicole Parton joining US Crime

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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, the victim, he didn't have

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Speaker 1: any food after she came over. They just had drinks, right.

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Speaker 5: That's right, they just had a few drinks. There was

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Speaker 5: no mention of any food.

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Speaker 1: Well, do we know what the drinks were?

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Speaker 5: Just alcoholic beverages.

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Speaker 1: That's what we know because we have been covering and

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Speaker 1: investigating cases. For instance, at these all five star, all

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Speaker 1: inclusive resorts where people go and they go to the bar,

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Speaker 1: and it's typically in Mexico by the way, they go

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Speaker 1: to the bar and suddenly they get sick and die.

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Speaker 1: We found out that is from illegal alcohol, basically moonshine,

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Speaker 1: and these high end resorts I'm talking about five star

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Speaker 1: trying to cut costs, will put the unauthorized alcohol moonshine

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Speaker 1: made in like factories into the high end top shelf

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Speaker 1: bottles to trick customers and then they are tainted and

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Speaker 1: the victims die. So there are ways to be poisoned, food,

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Speaker 1: poisoning by beverage.

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Speaker 3: So if we're talking about alcohol, yes, people will mix

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Speaker 3: methanol in them in the moonshine. There's often they don't properly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Candle Crowns. I don't like interrupting you because you

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Speaker 1: know so much more than me. But injecting methanol, what's methanol?

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Speaker 3: Methanolism is another form of alcohol, but it is not digestible.

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Speaker 3: It breaks down into your body into dangerous chemicals that

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Speaker 3: can cause blindness in death, and they'll usually be associated

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Speaker 3: with vomiting as well, and it's often it can be

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Speaker 3: found in the moonshines that you're referring to when they

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Speaker 3: don't properly distill them. Instead of forming ethanol, they form methanol.

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Speaker 1: Okay, methanol is that what's used in rubbing alcohol? What

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Speaker 1: is methanol?

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Speaker 3: Rubbing alcohol is isopropyle alcohol, and that also can be

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Speaker 3: added in the drinks to try and we see this

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Speaker 3: in chronic alcoholics that can't get a hold of alcohol

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Speaker 3: will drink the isopropyle alcohol in the medicine cabin.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you a question right there. We

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Speaker 1: had a couple over several years ago and I found

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Speaker 1: after they left. You know those huge bottles of the

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Speaker 1: gold colored listerine. Have you ever seen those Doctor Kendl

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Speaker 1: crowns that are really big with a black top. Well,

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Speaker 1: my dad always got those, so I get them too,

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Speaker 1: and they just taste terrible. But anyway, when the couple left,

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Speaker 1: I was putting clean towels in the linen closet and

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Speaker 1: there was an empty one of those huge containers of

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Speaker 1: listine shoved down behind the towels. I said, David, why

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Speaker 1: did you put this into towels? And he said, I

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Speaker 1: didn't and this is before the twins, so I need

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Speaker 1: they didn't do it.

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Speaker 3: The listrine also is contains ethanol. Actually I forget what

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Speaker 3: percentage it is, but you can get drunk drinking listrine.

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Speaker 1: And you must really want to get drunk to drink

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Speaker 1: one of those huge bottles of listerine. Yeah, okay, you

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Speaker 1: know I'm gonna blame you for getting off course, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Kindall Crowns, Uh, you're such a talker.

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Speaker 3: You can take sprain At and spray into a cup

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Speaker 3: and drink that as well, because it'll ge be alcoholics

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Speaker 3: because it's mainly alcohol.

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Speaker 1: What is sprain net?

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Speaker 3: Sprain At its hairspray. It's that classic hairspray you can

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Speaker 3: get in the eighties to proof your hair up and

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Speaker 3: give your you know, your rooster tail bangs and stuff

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Speaker 3: like that. It's a good old fashioned hairspring.

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Speaker 1: You know, Doctor Kendle Crowns, I never know what I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get. I guess it's like a box of chocolates.

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Speaker 1: Like up to you with a question joining me Also,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Lyle D. Bragoon, PhD, Toxicology expert, President CEO of Raptor,

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Speaker 1: oh As in the Dinosaur Raptor Farm and Talks LTD.

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Speaker 1: Fellow of the Academy of Toxicological Sciences Toxic truthblog dot com.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Burgoon, what about the fact that this woman goes

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Speaker 1: out a mom I might add to a baby as

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Speaker 1: having a great night on the town. She doesn't want

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Speaker 1: the night to end. She comes home to meet the guy.

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Speaker 1: They have a few drinks, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: he starts projectile vomini. It's not he wasn't sick before

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Speaker 1: she got there, So it's not like the chicken pop

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Speaker 1: pie he had for dinner four hours before made him sick.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just a JD. You're the MD, you

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Speaker 1: and doctor Kendall Crowns. But it seems to me like

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Speaker 1: she and that drink is somehow connected or I mean,

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Speaker 1: if it was food poisoning from supper he may have

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Speaker 1: had several hours before, why did it manifest in this

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Speaker 1: very aggressive manner after she gets on the scene.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree. It's you know, when we do a

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Speaker 6: causal analysis and toxicology investigations, you know, such as this one.

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Speaker 6: The first question we asked is about four questions, which

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Speaker 6: you're obviously very familiar with because it's the same thing

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Speaker 6: we present in court. Right, and so we would ask

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Speaker 6: the question, you know, but for this woman coming in,

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Speaker 6: was he productile vomiting? Probably not, you know, given you know,

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Speaker 6: like you said, it's food poisoning is generally pretty quick

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Speaker 6: and onset. You know, he drinks two drinks and all

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Speaker 6: of a sudden the projectile vomiting. That's it's It's highly

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Speaker 6: unlikely he would ever get to the levels of alcohol

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Speaker 6: poisoning to cause that kind of effect.

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Speaker 1: So why is this doctor bergin talking or doctor Crown's

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Speaker 1: doctor Forginny. So both to both of you, doctors question

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Speaker 1: alcohol poisoning, I think is something that occurs over the

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Speaker 1: ingestion of many, many drinks. But this was really quick,

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Speaker 1: didn't Nicole Parton? Didn't he just have two drinks?

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Speaker 5: He had about four drinks and it was after the

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Speaker 5: last two that he became very sick. But it was

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Speaker 5: in a very short time frame, within about an hour,

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Speaker 5: where all of this went down.

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Speaker 1: Guys, take a listen now to our friends at w SH.

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Speaker 7: We noticed a can of raid sitting in the driveway

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Speaker 7: of the couple's home, and deputies shared a picture of

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Speaker 7: the spray found inside. The victim told deputies he had

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Speaker 7: to wait nearly thirty minutes before he could call nine

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Speaker 7: to one one for help.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I do only the sound of that. When amts arrived,

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Speaker 1: they see a can of RAID sitting in the driveway

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Speaker 1: of the couple's home. I don't know, you know, isn't

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Speaker 1: there raid that can kill outdoor bugs like ants? Prime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, Robert Crispin joining me. Private investigator

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Speaker 1: Cash this former Federal Task Force officer for the US

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Speaker 1: Department of Justice DEA the Miami Field Division, former homicide

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Speaker 1: detective now at Crispin Special Investigations and you can find

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Speaker 1: him at Crispin Investigations dot com. This is in your

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Speaker 1: neck of the woods in the Florida jurisdiction, and there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of bugs down there because of the

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Speaker 1: semi tropical weather. So a lot of people using raid

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Speaker 1: outdoor spray for ants or outdoor bugs. I guess is

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Speaker 1: pretty common, right.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, listen, it's not uncommon to find different pesticides,

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Speaker 8: raid or anything when you get to somebody else's house.

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Speaker 8: But as the scene starts on fold and you see,

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Speaker 8: you know, you start talking to your victim and you

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Speaker 8: find that it's a rapid onset and clearly he wasn't

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Speaker 8: feeling bad. When she got home, he wasn't feeling bad,

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Speaker 8: and she said let's have a cocktail.

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Speaker 9: It wasn't like, oh.

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Speaker 8: I'm getting sick, I don't feel good. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 8: come on home, let's have a cocktail. And then the

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Speaker 8: rapid onset, the violent throwing up. Then he gets to

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Speaker 8: nine one one, and they arrived as this unfolded. They

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Speaker 8: started to put this together. And where's the girlfriend. I

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Speaker 8: haven't heard me mention her yet.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm saying, you're a PI. When I go to

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Speaker 1: a crime scene, I look around seeing raid outside the

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Speaker 1: home in the driveway, in a buggy area that's semi tropical.

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Speaker 1: That would not raise a concern for me. It's not

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Speaker 1: as if she has reno sitting on the kitchen counter. Guys,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut eighteen white for it

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Speaker 1: our friends at KKEL.

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Speaker 10: Her husband is a doctor as well, and his name

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Speaker 10: is Jack Chen. He has videos from July eleventh, eighteenth,

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Speaker 10: and twenty fifth allegedly showing his wife in their kitchen

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Speaker 10: with a big bottle of d reno. Now, according to

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Speaker 10: Jack Chen's lawyer, in one of the clips, you can

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Speaker 10: see Chen's wife removing a piece of serrand wrap that

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Speaker 10: was placed over Chen's lemonade drink. She then pours d

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Speaker 10: reno allegedly into that cup and puts the surand wrap

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Speaker 10: back on top.

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Speaker 1: That's not all. Take a listen to our cut sixty

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Speaker 1: and our friends at ABC seven. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: what draino did to this otherwise loving husband and father.

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Speaker 11: Radiologist Jack Chen says he noticed a chemical taste in

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Speaker 11: his drinks. In March, he set up a hidden camera

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Speaker 11: in their kitchen, capturing video evidence of his wife. You

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Speaker 11: you allegedly taking draino from under the sink and pouring

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Speaker 11: it into his lemonade in three separate instances. In July,

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Speaker 11: a doctor diagnosed Chen with two stomach leserts, gastritis and

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Speaker 11: esophagus inflammation.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so in that case with doctor Chen, the draino

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Speaker 1: is sitting right there on the counter and caught on

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Speaker 1: a video cam underneath the counter, and on that recording

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Speaker 1: that they heven the husband set up because he became suspicious.

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Speaker 1: He had a wide pan shot of the kitchen. Then

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Speaker 1: he had a camera under the sink, under the sink counter,

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Speaker 1: and you see the wive's hand reach in and get

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Speaker 1: the draino and take it out pourt of the drink,

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Speaker 1: sit it on the counter, Uh to you, doctor Lyle D.

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Speaker 1: Braguine joining us, doctor bragoon draino? What would that do

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Speaker 1: to your insides?

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Speaker 6: Draina is pretty nasty. It's it's a very caustic base,

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Speaker 6: which means it has a you know, really high pH

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Speaker 6: And what's going to happen. It's gonna burn all the

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Speaker 6: tissues as it goes down from your mouth all the

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Speaker 6: way down to your esophagus. It's gonna burn all that

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Speaker 6: tissue up and it's gonna start and you got your

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Speaker 6: hand up with inflammation, like you said, in the stomach.

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Speaker 6: It's going to cause a lot of chemical reactions. You know,

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Speaker 6: it's not common in these cases, like they said, to

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Speaker 6: develop ulcers. You know, that's exactly what I would expect

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Speaker 6: to see in this kind of case. It probably would

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Speaker 6: also in the short term, lead to diarrhea and nausea,

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Speaker 6: potentially bombing if the amounts of dre You know.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting. I covered and investigated a case. The defendant

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Speaker 1: was named Lynn Turner. She had one husband die of

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Speaker 1: what appeared to be a heart attack, then a boyfriend

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Speaker 1: died of what appeared to be a heart attack. Turns

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Speaker 1: out she was slipping anti freeze into I believe it

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Speaker 1: was lime jello and feeding it to them so they.

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Speaker 1: I then found out which I had never known before.

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Speaker 1: I always wondered, why do pats drink any freeze? I mean,

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Speaker 1: when I smell something chemically, I don't want to ingest it. Well,

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Speaker 1: I found out that anti freeze can actually have a

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Speaker 1: sweet taste to it. So to you, Doctor Kendall Crowns,

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Speaker 1: it seems to me that doctor Chin would notice he's

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Speaker 1: drinking DRAINO.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you would think so. I mean it would

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Speaker 3: burn quite a bit as it goes down, so I

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Speaker 3: would hope you would realize this.

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Speaker 1: But it was disguised in a lemonade drink. Yea was

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Speaker 1: she putting small dosages? Take a list hour cut seventeen

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Speaker 1: our friend Amy roebog Gma.

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Speaker 12: These surveillance images show the moments that California man says

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Speaker 12: he was secretly poisoned by his wife. The images part

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Speaker 12: of a restraining order filing by doctor Jack Chen against

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Speaker 12: his wife of ten years, doctor Emily Yu.

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Speaker 8: This poisoning a curry over a period of time that

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Speaker 8: caused him, in part to suspect his wife was poisoning him,

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Speaker 8: and so he placed surreptitious recording devices.

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Speaker 1: In the home.

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Speaker 12: The forty five year old dermatologist was placed under arrest

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Speaker 12: and later released on thirty thousand dollars bail.

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Speaker 1: So that poisoning was over time, so she who By

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Speaker 1: the way, the wife was also a medical doctor. She

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Speaker 1: was poisoning him a little bit at the time. So

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Speaker 1: is it possible to you, doctor Kendall Crowns that it

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Speaker 1: wasn't enough in there. He might have thought I had

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Speaker 1: an odd taste, but not enough that he wouldn't drink it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's possible if she's doing the long

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Speaker 3: term game of chronic exposure to kill him. It's possibly.

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Speaker 3: He just doesn't realize that the poison or the draino

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Speaker 3: in there. He just thinks it's an odd taste, and

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Speaker 3: if she does it enough, he's just like, oh, she

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Speaker 3: must do something weird with his drink. It always tastes weird.

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Speaker 3: But isn't really thinking about that she's slowly poisoning them.

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Speaker 3: That's actually common in the poisoners is they introduce small

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Speaker 3: amounts in the material over time and don't necessarily always

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Speaker 3: do an acute situation.

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark joining me, renownedd psychologist, TV radio trauma expert.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at Karenstark dot com. And that's

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Speaker 1: with a sat in case you're trying to find her. Karen,

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Speaker 1: I was just gonna tell you a funny anecdote. And

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm happy because in this case, the victim

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Speaker 1: who doesn't want us to say his name lived. I

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Speaker 1: don't have a dead body yet. It reminds me. I

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Speaker 1: saw this recipe the children My children love. Don't judge me.

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Speaker 1: They love sloppy Joe mix. They love it. And I

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Speaker 1: put a secret ingredient, brown sugar in it. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: I found this recipe, Karen Stark, And I know you

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Speaker 1: love to order out and go to fancy restaurants. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but I made a sloppy Joe tater tot casserole. Don't

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Speaker 1: ask too many questions. What could go wrong? Quit making faces, Sidney,

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Speaker 1: you ate till you have twins. Yeah, I saw you.

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Speaker 1: I saw the face. Okay, sounds good, she says, Okay.

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Speaker 1: And we actually had guests over. Well. I was rushing

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Speaker 1: around getting everything on the table and they had started eating,

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Speaker 1: and there was a little pause, but everyone cleaned their plates.

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Speaker 1: I finally ate a bit, and I'm like, okay, there's

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Speaker 1: something really wrong with this, And there was. I think

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Speaker 1: there was something wrong with the ground beef. Nobody got sick,

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Speaker 1: but it just had a peculiar taste. But because I

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Speaker 1: had made it, no one said, hey, did you poison me?

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Speaker 1: They ate the sloppy Joe tater todd It was a

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Speaker 1: thing of beauty. Sydney quit laughing. The whole top was

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Speaker 1: beautifully golden brown tater tots on top of a bed,

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Speaker 1: a steaming bed of sloppy joe. Anyway, that said, what

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Speaker 1: about the mental framework when somebody you love? I remember

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Speaker 1: growing up my mom would come in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the night if I was sick, and she would give

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Speaker 1: me something to drink and maybe some medicine or some

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Speaker 1: chopped eyes. I would never think to say, Mom, turn

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Speaker 1: on the light. I want to make sure you're not

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Speaker 1: poisoning me. So people may taste something unusual, that a

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Speaker 1: tinge of something icky, but because of who's giving it

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Speaker 1: to you, you would never think they're poisoning me.

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Speaker 4: That's right, Nan, It's all about trust, right, Like your

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Speaker 4: friends are at your home and they trust you, they

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Speaker 4: assume that you're not going to hurt them, and if

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Speaker 4: you're in a relationship with them, but you would assume

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Speaker 4: the same thing, right, You would just assume, why would

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Speaker 4: that person want to do anything to harm me? So

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Speaker 4: you're drinking something that tastes God, you're tasting something. You're

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Speaker 4: not going to make that assumption with me.

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Speaker 1: Is Deal Carson, high profile criminal defense attorney also in

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Speaker 1: the Florida jurisdiction where this went down, Former fbiagent, former

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Speaker 1: police officer with Miami Dade, author of Arrest Proof Yourself

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Speaker 1: and you can find them at del Carson Law dot com.

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Speaker 1: Del Carson, I mean when the EMTs arrive, they see

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Speaker 1: a can of raid sitting outside the home. As Robert

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Speaker 1: Crispin and I discussed, it's a semi tropical area. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people, not me, but a lot of people

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Speaker 1: use very oh gosh, I want to say, harsh, aggressive

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Speaker 1: type of bug sprays to get rid of the bugs

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Speaker 1: so they don't come in the house. I get it.

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Speaker 1: So being in Florida, being that this man and woman

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Speaker 1: were intimately familiar with each other, what's the reason to

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Speaker 1: suspect her?

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Speaker 9: Well, we had this happen to an FBI agent in

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Speaker 9: atlasta when I was there, and his wife, over a

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Speaker 9: period of time, as one of your other speakers indicated,

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Speaker 9: poisoned him and she found a root doctor to give

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Speaker 9: her the necessary material in order to put it in

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Speaker 9: his food, and over about a six month period, he

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Speaker 9: ultimately got to the point where he was dreaming and

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Speaker 9: having nightmares, at which point the two assassins came into

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Speaker 9: the house and actually shot him. And so I'm familiar

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Speaker 9: with that process, and it's deadly as hell, and you

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Speaker 9: wonder why people would quietly do things like this. He

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Speaker 9: happened to survive. He took a hit directly in the

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Speaker 9: chest that went through the innerspace between his sternham and

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Speaker 9: his lungs and missed every vital organ. But he was

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Speaker 9: lucky to survive and would have obviously responded to the

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Speaker 9: attack had he not been drugged or poisoned the world.

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Speaker 1: So what I'm saying here is that there's not cause

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Speaker 1: for alarm yet. This could be shigella, this could be salmonella.

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Speaker 1: The ray can is easy explainable, But why was the

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Speaker 1: onset so quick after she arrives. Take a listen now

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Speaker 1: to our friends at WSH.

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Speaker 7: Deputies were called to Clines de Leon Springs home about

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Speaker 7: four thirty am by her boyfriend, who also lives here

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Speaker 7: with the couple's year old child. The boyfriend told deputies

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Speaker 7: Klein came home from a bar and asked the victim

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Speaker 7: to continue drinking with her. According to the report, the

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Speaker 7: victim said he consumed two alcoholic beverages when he began

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Speaker 7: feeling sick.

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Speaker 1: So it was just two beverages. Okay, there's a little

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Speaker 1: confusion on that. Was there two or were there two

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Speaker 1: or they're four? But the plot thickens. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: now to our friends at WKMG.

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Speaker 8: She's trying to come up from here right now, and

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Speaker 8: she's going to our daughter right now.

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Speaker 1: I need to get officer, he tells deputies.

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Speaker 2: Client told him what to use the poison his drinks

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Speaker 2: and that she wished to do the same to their daughter.

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Speaker 7: And more from wish, the suspect allegedly told him she

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Speaker 7: added raid roach spray to his last two beverages and

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Speaker 7: that she wished to do the same to their child.

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Speaker 3: I have a recording her herds saying that she was

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Speaker 3: trying to kill me.

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Speaker 7: According to the deputies, the victim said the bug spray

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Speaker 7: made him so sick he was vomiting for half an hour.

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Speaker 1: Prolonged vomiting pain straight back out to Nicole Parton. Crimeonline

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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Nicole Parton, it's a miracle that

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Speaker 1: he was able to call nine one one, But did

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Speaker 1: I understand that correctly that she said she also wanted

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Speaker 1: to poison the baby.

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Speaker 5: That's right, and he was able to actually have the

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Speaker 5: mindset to hit record on his telephone, and he has

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Speaker 5: this entire conversation recorded while he's fighting for his life vomiting.

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Speaker 5: She says, yes, I poisoned you with the raid roach killer,

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Speaker 5: and I want to do the same thing to our child.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing to me that he had the wherewithal to

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Speaker 1: punch the record button. You know, Karen Stark, I've read

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Speaker 1: stories and actually interviewed people that yet an amazing burst

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Speaker 1: of energy when it comes to saving their child. Even

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Speaker 1: lifting a car, one person lifting a car, or some

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Speaker 1: daring feat, you get that adrenaline, you get that inspiration

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Speaker 1: for yourself. You may not have it. But when she

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Speaker 1: allegedly tells him I'm doing the same to the baby,

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Speaker 1: he somehow dragged himself to the phone and called nine

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Speaker 1: to one one. Have you ever seen anything like that?

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Speaker 4: Personally? I haven't, but it doesn't surprise me because now

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Speaker 4: you're talking about just not his own death and his

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Speaker 4: need to survive, but a child, and that is going

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Speaker 4: to give him tremendous amounts of courage, and we know

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Speaker 4: that adrenaline. It really comes forward in that kind of

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Speaker 4: a crisis. It's a fight or flight, and he fought.

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Speaker 1: Everything began unfolding very quickly. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: friends at west Nee's.

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Speaker 7: And after deputies arrived, they say the victim became sick

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Speaker 7: again and was ultimately taken to the hospital.

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Speaker 13: Put your hands off, Put your hands off.

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Speaker 1: Do it now.

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Speaker 7: S aspect Kleine had left the house before deputies got unseen,

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Speaker 7: but a canine unit located her a block or so away.

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Speaker 1: Show me your hands.

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Speaker 14: Walk towards me.

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Speaker 1: Now, walk towards.

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Speaker 14: Me, Walk towards me, talking, shove your hands do it now, show.

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Speaker 13: Me your hands pocket, Put your hands up, put your

435
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 13: hands up, do it now, hands up, Put your hands up,

436
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 13: show me your hands.

437
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 14: Walk towards me. Now, walk towards me. Walk towards me.

438
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 14: Stop stop right there, Get on your knees. Stay right

439
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 14: there right here. Watch watch.

440
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, not ma, you're good.

441
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: How good boy? God soup monny, good boy? Not a

442
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: good dog. Hit'll find out batman.

443
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 13: Good boy, that good dog, good suit, bunny, good boy?

444
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: Good sup.

445
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,120
Speaker 14: Did he bite you anywhere?

446
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 3: That's okay?

447
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: All right, yes, okay, you know right there. I love

448
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: the officer's tone of voice. He say, get on your knees,

449
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: Get on your knees, show your hands, good boy, good boy,

450
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: good boy, you're great dog. Didn't he bite anywhere? Just

451
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: the way he's responding to her versus the dog. Okay,

452
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: Nicole Parton, I guess when you're dealing with a defendant

453
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: that you think just poisoned the father of her child

454
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: with raid bug spray, you don't know if she's going

455
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: to pull out a knife or a gun from God

456
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: only knows where on her body and start shooting.

457
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 5: What happened absolutely and when she heard him making that

458
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 5: nine one call, she ran. She went out the door,

459
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 5: and she ran and was trying to get away and

460
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 5: hide in the bushes. Of course, when the police arrived

461
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 5: and heard what was happening, they immediately went after her

462
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 5: and had to treat her as a perpetrator. She had

463
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 5: potentially allegedly tried to kill someone, so they had to

464
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 5: go after her.

465
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: Where does the dog fit into this scenario?

466
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 5: The lead investigator, the guy who's the policeman who came

467
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 5: out on the nine one one call, called for backup

468
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 5: and said, hey, she's ran. There's a victim here. The

469
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 5: alleged perpetrators on the run. They called for backup, They

470
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 5: brought in the canine, then they found her.

471
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: To Deal Carson, high profile criminal defense attorney joining us

472
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: out of the Florida jurisdiction at deal Carson law dot com.

473
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: You know, in many jurisdictions, the judge in a case

474
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: no longer gives a jury an instruction on flight. In

475
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: other words, if someone runs from the scene or you know,

476
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: bond forfeits. To me, that's an indication of guilt. Why

477
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: else would they leave? But you can still argue it

478
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: to the jury and your closing argument. That doesn't look good.

479
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: When your lover, your sweetheart, the father of your child

480
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: is desperately ill, he's the one that calls nine one

481
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: to get help, and the minute he does, you run

482
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: and hide. In the Bush's classic classic textbook example a

483
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: flight as indication of guilt, I mean, when I see

484
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: a cop, I don't go around hide in the bush, right.

485
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 9: When I would ruin the defendant's effort at any kind

486
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 9: of argument that she wasn't guilty or not involved. When

487
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 9: you have someone who's sick, everyone and particularly on a

488
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 9: jury panel, expects you to call for help instead of

489
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 9: fleeing the scene, which tells us that she is. That's

490
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 9: clearly an indication of guilty.

491
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: To doctor Lyle D. Bragoon, toxicology expert, doctor Bragoon, what

492
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: is in Well, first of all, how did you decide

493
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: Were you a little boy when you said I want

494
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: to be a toxicologist, I'm all about poison. When did

495
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: you decide you wanted to focus on toxicology.

496
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 6: You know, it's a funny story. When I was a

497
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 6: little boy, I wanted to be a game show host.

498
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 6: I was inspired by Bob Barker, I guess now in college,

499
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 6: that's when I decided that I was really fascinated by

500
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 6: poisons and how they work and how they operate in

501
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 6: the body. And I was inspired by my mother who

502
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 6: had chemical induced diabetes, and so that's really I was

503
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 6: trying really hard to understand how she got chemical induce diabetes.

504
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 6: And that's that's when I decided to become a toxicologist.

505
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: Wow, how did she get chemically in these diabetes?

506
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 6: It's kind of an interesting thing. Back when my mom

507
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 6: was around, it was very common to give steroids orally

508
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 6: as opposed to inhalation like we do today's control asthma.

509
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 6: So she had asthma. She was given oral steroids and

510
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 6: the corticosteroids in particular. What happens is those actually activate

511
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 6: in your fight or flight response, which increases your blood sugar.

512
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 6: And because she was taking these chronically, her blood sugar

513
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 6: was chronically high, which then eventually causes the pancreas to

514
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 6: not work properly cause of diabetes. And then eventually, you know,

515
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 6: if she had lived long enough, she had become interindependent

516
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 6: as well.

517
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: Wow, that's an incredible story, and just know deep down inside,

518
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: doctor Kendle Crowns, I'm coming to you next on why

519
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: you wanted to become a medical examiner. Crime Stories with

520
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, Doctor Lyell D. Bragoon. What is inn raid

521
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: and what does it do to your body?

522
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 6: So raid has it's actually mostly mineral oil. A lot

523
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 6: of people don't realize that it's about thirty to sixty

524
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 6: percent mineral oil, they won't tell us exactly how much.

525
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 6: And then just the tiniest amount less than one percent

526
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 6: is actually the active ingredient insecticides which are in the

527
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 6: first and then safer methrine, which those are the things

528
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 6: that will actually kill the bugs. Those are neurotoxics, neurotoxicants

529
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 6: for the insects, and so they don't have to be

530
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 6: really high concentrations because the insects is a tiny So

531
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 6: most of what's actually going to harm humans is that

532
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 6: mineral oil.

533
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: Trying to way through what you're saying. When if someone

534
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: ingest raid bug spray, what does it do to your inside?

535
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: It's mostly mineral oil, not much.

536
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 9: Well, it actually does quite a bit.

537
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 6: Miner oil is a little bit more irritating than most

538
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 6: people realize. Mineral oil medicinally, very low concentrations is used.

539
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 6: If you have constipation, it'll form a water type film

540
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 6: around the insides of your intestines, especially large intestine prevent

541
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 6: the water from being absorbed by a large intest and

542
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 6: keeping it inside the feces so that you can then

543
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 6: deficate easily when you get in higher concentrations. What starts

544
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 6: to happen. It starts irritating the small intestine, a little

545
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 6: bit of the stomach, and it'll activate your brain to

546
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 6: start vomiting because it sees the minner oil as a harmful.

547
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: Toxic Okay, see, did not know that you're hearing doctor

548
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: Lyle Date Bragoon Doctor Kendll Crowns joining US Chief Medical

549
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: Examiner Terren County. That's Fort Worth, doctor Kendall Crowns. You

550
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: have autopsy literally thousands, thousands of patients. First of all,

551
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: why did you become a medical examiner?

552
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 3: Well, my dad taught chriminology and so I was always

553
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 3: kind of around you know, formsic investigations and things of

554
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 3: that nature. And when I was a kid, I wanted

555
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: to be a doctor, and he told me about things

556
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 3: of pathology and introduce me to one of the low

557
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 3: medical examinas. I saw my first autopsy when I was

558
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 3: in ninth grade.

559
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: On a human.

560
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 3: Yes, on a human.

561
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of wish I didn't know that, but

562
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: it makes me like you even more than you did

563
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: your first autopsy at what age did you say?

564
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: It was ninth grade? So thirteen fifteen, it was. It

565
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 3: was just fascinating to me.

566
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: What do you make of this. I mean it's on tape.

567
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: The guy had the wherewithal to push record much. It

568
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: reminds you of the little girls in Delphi, Abby and

569
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: Libby who recorded their killer saying down the hill, Down

570
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: the hill, and probably more that we don't know about yet.

571
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: But how does your mind keep working, doctor Kendall Crowns,

572
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: when you are in intense pain and physical dilemma close

573
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: to death?

574
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 3: I think you know what. The epinephrine flowing through your

575
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 3: system the fight or flight response to do anything you

576
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 3: can to survive. So people can do quite amazing things

577
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 3: in these situations to keep going and to keep their

578
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: wits about them to help them survive. So even recording it,

579
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 3: he's trying to survive. I've seeing people do any number

580
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 3: of things that intend to survive. Even people who hang

581
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 3: themselves will clutch at the at the rope to try

582
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 3: and get it off their necks before they die. So

583
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 3: the mind is an incredible thing and it often wants

584
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 3: to preserve itself. Nothing nobody wants to die.

585
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: Take listen to our cut three. This is Molly Reed

586
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: WKMG Veronica.

587
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: Client is now being held here in the Volusia County

588
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 2: Jail without bond now.

589
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: The victim told.

590
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 2: Deputies that he had to wait thirty minutes after he

591
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 2: was poisoned to call nine one one. Twenty nine year

592
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: old client in court this afternoon now facing a charge

593
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 2: of poisoning with intent to kills.

594
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: No way I would release miss client on the supervise

595
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: release Clian. You said it, mobone. I cannot believe this

596
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: woman has walked out of jail, no bond or released

597
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: on her own recognizant. Karen Stark got a question for you.

598
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard the catch off phrase that the

599
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 1: question why do men like crazy women? Why don't they

600
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: like women that you have a job and they're responsible.

601
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: What is it about pure crazy that would attract someone?

602
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 1: Because this woman already had two priors for wielding a knife, Yes,

603
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: for wielding a knife, why would he stay with her?

604
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 4: Well, the thing that's hard for us to understand, and

605
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 4: but happens to be true in many cases, is that

606
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 4: crazy women are very exciting, and men are attracted to

607
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 4: the fact that they're outgoing, exciting. They say things that Wow,

608
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 4: I can't believe she said that. Isn't that something nobody

609
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 4: else would say it?

610
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: Because she's yeah, and.

611
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 4: It happens much more often than you would think because

612
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 4: they've never encountered anything so exciting and they have no

613
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 4: idea what they're in for.

614
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: Dell Carson, some people call it exciting. I find it

615
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 1: tedious and irritating to make one bad choice after the next,

616
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: and especially when you have children, Why would you want

617
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: to be with someone like that that's making one bad

618
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: decision after the next. That said trouble with the law,

619
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: wielding a knife for Pete's sake, and exposing that person

620
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: to your children. I mean, you see it all the

621
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: time where one person in the relationship is charged with

622
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: a violent crime and the other person has gone along

623
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: for the ride.

624
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 9: We see this constantly and domestic violence cases in Florida,

625
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 9: and I can simply tell you that it has an

626
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 9: impact on everyone around that family. The parents, the grandparents,

627
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 9: the children particularly get damaged. Florida has started charging individuals

628
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 9: in those cases with child abuse, So if you get

629
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 9: charged with fighting in front of your family and there's

630
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 9: a child in the room, you're going to get tagged

631
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 9: with child abuse as well. So it's very Men in

632
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 9: my experience, are often very shortsighted when it comes to

633
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 9: selecting women that they'd like to be involved with involved.

634
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 1: Well, well, that's certainly one way of putting it. You're

635
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: certainly putting to put it in I involved with I

636
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: a sleep with Okay, Delle Carson for once you put

637
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: perfume on the pig. But I saw right through that

638
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: Nicole parton. I'm looking at this woman. You would never

639
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: know that she is capable of poisoning the father of

640
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: her baby with raid aunt and bug spray? What why

641
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: is she at on bond and what happens next?

642
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 5: Just checked on her as we're speaking, and she is

643
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 5: actually still in custody. She is being held without bond.

644
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: Oh so that changed. I'm glad to hear it. And

645
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,720
Speaker 1: that's where she needs to stay until this goes to trial.

646
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. If you know or think

647
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 1: you know anything about suspect Veronica Klein, aged twenty nine,

648
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: out of De Leon Springs, Florida, Dial three eight six

649
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: two four eight one seven seven seven, whatever you do,

650
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: don't give her a job in the jail house kitchen. Goodbye, friend,