1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Depth by throttling, Depth by throttling, 2 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: What does that mean? That means when a killer puts 3 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: his hands around your neck and strangles you until you're dead, 4 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: that's a throttle death strangulation. We now know that this 5 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: young girl, Gabby Potito A was murdered b by strangulation, 6 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: see by manual by hand strangulation. By throttling Crime Stories 7 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: with me to Grace, I mean you see, Grace, this 8 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us in 9 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: the hours just after the announcement that Gabby Petito was 10 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: strangled dead? What's her family doing? What is Brian Lowry's 11 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: family doing? Take a listen. How do you feel? How 12 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: do you feel to know that Gabby Knight of strangulation 13 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: and Wilderness of Wyoming with you? How does that make 14 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: you feel? Did you father you that Gabby was strangled? 15 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: Was your son involved in strangling? You are hearing protesters attacking, 16 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: harassing Brian Lowry's father because he's out on the front 17 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: yard cutting the grass. Take a list to our cut 18 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: three one one, our cut three one one. Listen, mister Laundry, 19 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: any reaction to the autopsy results? Do you have anything 20 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: to say to Gabby's family as they're dealing with learning 21 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: about the autopsy. Has he ever has he ever tried 22 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: hurting Gabby in the past. Now you know why the 23 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: gas can? What do you you must you getting gas 24 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: or is this something you expected? Mister Laundry, why aren't 25 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: you saying anything? Is there anything you want to say 26 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 1: to Gabby's family? Do you know where Brian is? Once 27 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: again you're hearing protesters outside Brian Laundry's home. We now 28 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: know why he wanted the gas can and because he 29 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: had to kind of his his yard. All right, let me 30 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: just soap that in for a moment, no surprise, no 31 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: registering of any emotion whatsoever. When he learns his would 32 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: have been daughter in law is strangled dead and left 33 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: to decompose. I wonder why did he already know she 34 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: was strangled dead and he thinks it's appropriate to go 35 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: cut the grass around and make shift memorial and the 36 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: front yard to Gabby Petito, it's just insult on injury 37 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: with me an all star panel to make sense of 38 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: what we know right now. It's ever changing high profile 39 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: lawyer out of Florida and former FBI agent Delle Carson 40 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: at Del Carson dot com, Karen Start, New York psychologists 41 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: joining us out of Manhattan at karen Start dot com. 42 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: Karen with a Ce Cheryl McCollum, Founder Director of the 43 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: Coldcase Research Institute at Coldcase Crimes dot org. Professor Forensics, 44 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on 45 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: Amazon and host of a brand new hit series on 46 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: iHeart podcast Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. But straight out 47 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: to Massa's sight eating investigative reporter Wflatva Massa cutting the 48 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: grass around her memorial, just a couple of hours after 49 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: it is announced publicly that she was strangled, dead throttled. Yeah, Nancy, 50 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 1: that's exactly what we saw today outside of the Laundry 51 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: family home at Northport. To give you some contact, Today 52 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: marks exactly one month since Brian disappeared according to the 53 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: family's timeline, at his October thirteenth, and this morning, after 54 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: we learned what had happened to Gabby Petito strangulation, Manuel 55 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: strangulation throttling. As you explained, Chris Laundry stepped outside of 56 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: his home. Of course, the reporters were there, the protesters 57 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: were there, and he started to mow his grass, and 58 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: he was filmed for much of that. People so angry 59 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: that the family is not talking, and people also angry 60 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: anytime the family does talk through the attorney. Yesterday out 61 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: eighteen minutes into the news conference. The news conference had 62 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: not finished yet. I had been in touch with the 63 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: attorney for the family asking for any statement, so as 64 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: that news conference was happening, Stephen Bertolino did send me 65 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: a statement which I sent my newsroom which really angered 66 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: the family. His statement, he basically said that you know, 67 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: Brian is currently charged with the unauthorized use of a 68 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: debit card, and when he's located, we will address depending charges. 69 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: And he said Gabby's death at such a young age 70 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: as a tragedy. Gabby's mom infuriated by that, texting WFLA 71 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: that his words are garbage. So people very angry. One 72 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: month since Brian has been missing, and yes he was 73 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: cutting the grass today, the father was. Before everybody jumps 74 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: in on the panel, I want to go to Karen 75 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: Starr on New York Psychologist joining us to the Adam 76 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: Manhattan Karen, Gabby is strangled dead. I'm sure they found 77 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: Bruce about her neck. Her high ortal bone may have 78 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: been broken. Why is it there's so much outrage, including 79 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: on my part, that the dad is out Brian Laudry's father, 80 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: not Gabby's dad or her stepdad, mister Schmidt, but Brian 81 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: Lawry's dad is out cutting the grass. I mean, in 82 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: the midst of the press or wheneverything was just hitting 83 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: the news, he goes out to my gas to cut 84 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: the grass. I mean, that would be the last thing 85 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: on my mind. Why is that so infuriating? It's incredibly infuriating, 86 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: even even to being ant, because they're not even supposed that. Look, 87 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: they're the parents, they care about their son, maybe they 88 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: really see things through his viewpoints, but they're not even 89 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: making an attempt to seem like they're sympathetic that this 90 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: is horrific news and people should be mourning outrage. He's 91 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: going out and cutting the grass, is nothing is happening. 92 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: They send all their statements through the lawyer. They don't 93 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: make an attempt to speak up and say we're horrified, 94 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: this is terrible, we lest the daughter in law, nothing 95 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: like that, so they can't even pretend that this means 96 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: something to them. And of course when anybody hears that, 97 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: think about it's just no one can understand why they're 98 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: doing this. It's so cool. I mean, Cheryl McCollum, founder 99 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute. I remember vividly 100 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: after my fiance was murdered and I was at home 101 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: at our family home, and it was as if it 102 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: was as quiet as a library. Nobody talked, nobody wanted 103 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: to eat. It just went on and on, seemingly an end. 104 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: It was just like a silence had fallen over our 105 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: whole household, and my parents were just heart broken that 106 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: Keith was gone. And he is out. This guy's out 107 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: cutting the grass. I don't get it. I think you 108 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: just nailed it, Nancy, because he's given the impression that 109 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: an hoa violation for his grass is more important than 110 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: the murder of Gabby Potito. And again he's showing everybody 111 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: what I have said from day one. He ain't worried 112 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: about his son. He doesn't think he is out there 113 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: somewhere hurt. He doesn't think he's harmed himself. He doesn't 114 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: think that any minute an alligator or something else is 115 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: gonna get him. He's not. And I'm gonna I'm gonna 116 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: point out one more thing. Everybody said, Oh the dad 117 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: recently joined the search. No, he didn't. He gave a 118 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: half ass tour of nothing it's a joke and was 119 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: out laughing and joking, laughing and joking other people and 120 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: was photographed laughing and joky. For Pete's sake, at least 121 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: hide it, man. I want you to take a listen 122 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: to our cut three one zero or fors at w FLA. 123 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: This is justin Shepherd. The attorney for the Laundry family, 124 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: Stephen Bertolino, told eight on your Side, Well, Brian Laundry 125 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: is currently charged with the unauthorized use of a debit 126 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: card belonging to Gabby. Brian is only considerative person of 127 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: interest in relation to Gabby Petito's demise. Gabby's mother, Nicole Schmidt, responded, 128 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: saying his words are garbage. Well, the coroner has revealed 129 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: how her daughter died. The FBI is still building its 130 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: case on who is responsible crime stories with Nancy Grace. 131 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: Hold on just a moment, let me understand this straight 132 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: back out, Tomas Societti joining us from WLA, that's where 133 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: we got that sound. Thank you for that, Mos, Society. 134 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: So just get his foot and choke on it, all right, 135 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 1: because nobody wants to hear some partsing of words. After 136 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: we just learn this girl's body is decomposing, rotting, rotting, 137 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: and they can tell from what skin is still apparently 138 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: left on her body that there is bruising and markings 139 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: on her neck. I don't know, maybe they have to 140 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: peel her skin back and look at muscular bruising underneath 141 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: the skin. And the lawyer is safe. Now, Remember, Brian 142 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: Laundry is only charged with financial card fraud. Translation, he's 143 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: using Gabby's debit card so we could get fast food 144 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,479 Speaker 1: after she's lying out I'm dead in the Wyoming wilderness. 145 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: I mean, nobody wants to hear that. Why does he 146 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: keep talking? Yeah, I mean that statement certainly angered a 147 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: lot of people, and he did confirm it. I statement, 148 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: and you just that Brian had used the debit cards 149 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: belonging to Gabby. The documents had been saved out for 150 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: now we know that the debit card belonged to Gabby. 151 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, this was what happened to Gabby is brutal 152 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: just subjectively, it is a brutal thing that happened to her. 153 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: She was manually strangled, and we were found out yesterday 154 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: she was likely left in the wilderness for three to 155 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: four weeks before she was found. So she was found 156 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: on September nineteenth, the time of death, which we're never 157 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: going to know the exact time of death. The coroner 158 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: said that's not going to be listed on the desk 159 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: or to get but three to four weeks before that 160 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: that happened, and the attorney's statement did not, I would say, 161 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: did not make the Petito family feel better. Certainly, that's 162 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: safe to say. It made me feel awful, and I'm 163 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: certainly not connected to the case in anyway. I mean, 164 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: think about a share all the times that we were 165 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: in court. I don't know if this ever happened to you, 166 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: but sometimes at this exact moment, I would just actually 167 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: feel sick. I feel sick thinking them just cutting the 168 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: grass and going and buying gasoline, and this girl, I mean, 169 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: she's just twenty two years old, was left there like that. 170 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: Maybe they weren't surprised because they already knew how she died. Well, 171 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make you feel better, I think a little bit. 172 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: They have shown no sorrow, no remorse, no care concerned, 173 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: no urgency. They haven't helped law enforcement, they have not 174 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: been transparent, They hadn't even been truthful. They are ruining 175 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: any chance that boy is ever gonna have in front 176 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: of a jury. So I say, keep on, keep doing it, 177 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 1: because wy Woman is a death penalty state, because the 178 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: jury is never going to hear the way the parents behaved. Never, 179 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: that's gonna be anything. The particle Hurry's already watching. They're 180 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: already watching. They already know it's done. Carson, this Bertolino 181 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: needs to just stop. He needs to stop. He wants, 182 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: he want, Well, he's hurting his client. I can tell 183 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: you that much. Keep talking about the debit card. You know, 184 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: he is eating a big mat while she's rotting. Don't 185 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: remind me of that. That's when he keeps putting in 186 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: my head. I agree with you entirely. And speaking about 187 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: the autopsy, you know what, this also tells us that 188 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: the condition of the body was adequate for them to 189 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: make that pronouncement that she was throttled. It tells us 190 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: that she was probably partly buried, and that's what took 191 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: so long to find the actual body. Why there were 192 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: no birds involved in things of that nature, because otherwise 193 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: small animals would have erased that evidence. So it's a 194 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: good thing that and of course burying someone is another 195 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: clue about having done it intentionally. Guys, I want you 196 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: to take a listen to our three hundred. This is 197 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: a Tcha County Corner doctor Brinton Blue speaking to our 198 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: friends at a three six gapping. Petito's cause of death 199 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: was manual strangulation slash throttling. Does that mean that or 200 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: what exactly does that mean? Because that mean does it 201 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: mean that somebody who use their hands or some sort 202 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: of an object throttling means that they that someone was 203 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: strangled by human force. There was no mechanical force involved. 204 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: People can be strangled by other means, like we have 205 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: seen people on snowmobiles who run into a wire. That 206 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: would be strangling by a mechanical event. But this was 207 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: We believe this is strangling by a human being. How 208 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: do you determine that it's a human being? Well, mainly 209 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: because only humans have opposable thombs. But the there is 210 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: no evidence that this was done by any kind of animal. 211 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: As far as the cause of death, you know, I mean, 212 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you can tell somebody use their hands as 213 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: opposed to us, an you know, some some other object. 214 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: You can't necessarily tell that. But when we talk about 215 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: manual stranguling. It's as opposed to as opposed to something 216 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: as mechanical as casting. Actually you can tell just got 217 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: more than you can tell when hands are used to strangle. 218 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: When there is as they keep saying, mechanical, which means 219 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: another object other than the hands. Whether it is a rope, 220 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: whether it is a penny hoose, whether it's a scarf. 221 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: You can see the ligature markings on the neck. It's 222 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: very very apparently. I mean, let's think um um epstein, epstein. 223 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: You could see ligature marks like rope marks on the 224 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: neck right when you have a manual by hand. You 225 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: can actually very often see finger marks, but instead of prints, 226 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: they're bruises. And if you strangle someone looking at them 227 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: in the face, you will see the thumbs. Thumb markis 228 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: right here. If the person's run behind, you'll get the 229 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: thumb markings on the back of the neck and the 230 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: finger marks in bruise form on the front. It's very 231 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: obvious unless Joe Scott the skin and decomposed to the 232 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: point that the markings are under the skin and on 233 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: the musculature. Yeah, we're not just going to be looking 234 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: strictly at the at the skin externally or even the 235 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: muscles underlying. There's a couple other things that we're going 236 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: to consider, Nancy, with the trachea, which is primarily cartilage, 237 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: you know, next to bone. It's not as hard as bone. 238 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: It'll actually fracture too, Okay, so you'll have fracture marks 239 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: in that. And of course the infamous highoid bone that 240 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: sits way way up in the neck. It's kind of 241 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: shaped like a bird. We describe it as a birdlike 242 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: bone or bird shaped bone. Yeah, it's an interesting bone, 243 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: and this is why it's the only bone in the 244 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: body that's not connected to another bone. Just let that 245 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: sink in for a second. It actually anchors the tongue 246 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: in the back of the throat. If everybody will just 247 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: consider your tongue for a moment, and where it is. 248 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: That's how high up it is in the organs of 249 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: the neck, and so you have to really reach high 250 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: and jelly. That's not going to happen with a hanging. 251 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: It happens with manual strangulation. And when he's talking about 252 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: mechanical Nancy, you went to this point just a second ago. 253 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: What are you saying is there's no ligature involved with 254 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 1: the ligature, you're gonna have margins. You'll have tiny little 255 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: demarcations like a we call it a furrow or an 256 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: a braided area that doesn't exist. But with a manual throttling, 257 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: and that's different than a c clamp where you just 258 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,959 Speaker 1: grab the traitia. A manual throttling means using both hands. 259 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: When you reflect the skin and you look at that 260 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: muscle tissue, you'll actually see broad rain, gene hemorrhage. That's consistent. Everybody, 261 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: Just look at the palms of your hands. Think about 262 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: that as contact points. You're pressing against it. And Nancy, 263 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: let me break it down even further. This is not 264 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: just strangulation. He literally, he literally squeezed the life out 265 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: of her. He not only cut off her air supply, 266 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: but he also diminished or compromised the vessels, the carroated vessels, 267 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: the juggler veins, everything that is a return and a 268 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: supply of auction eated blood to the brain. And she 269 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: watched this happen. If he did it from the front, 270 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: she was eye to eye with him. She's fighting against him, 271 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: fighting against his force. And remember this, he was never 272 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: inspected for anything on his face. To max point, he 273 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: was never inspected by the cops down in Florida. What 274 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: could that have revealed? Maybe they did nail scrapings, maybe 275 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: they came up with something there, but I know that 276 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: they'd lost that opportunity down in Florida. Clime Stories with 277 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I want to think about something. I don't 278 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: want to think about it, but in a murder case, 279 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: you have to think about it. Think about it straight 280 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: out to you, Cheryl McCollum. When she was murdered, this 281 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: girl just a couple of years older than my girl, 282 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: almost the age of your girl, Cheryl McCallum, no further 283 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: away from her killer than a foot, because you know, 284 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: the arms were bent, looking at her eye to eye 285 00:19:55,040 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: as she died, as she struggled, as her eyes filled 286 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: up with water and she gasped for air, eye to 287 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: eye with her cure That is cold, Cheryl McCollum. She 288 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: would have been eye to eye with the person that 289 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: was going to take a vow to love her forever, 290 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: to protect her through sickness and in health, and richard 291 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: for poor the person. She thought she could count on 292 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: the person, even after he slapped her repeatedly on Main Street, 293 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: said she didn't want to be away from him for 294 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: the night. That's who that person was to her, and 295 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: he would have seen her eyes change and bulge, he 296 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: would have heard a death gurgle, he would have seen 297 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: mucus and foam and different things happened to her right 298 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: before his eye. Why won't you take a listen? A 299 00:20:54,920 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: lot of people are very very befuddled as to why 300 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: no further details have been released. We know Gabby was 301 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: not pregnant at the time she was murdered, but other 302 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: than that, very little has been released. Taken listen to 303 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: our cut three zero four. This is again doctor Brent 304 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: Blue speaking. There's more information, but because it's an ongoing investigation, 305 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: that information is not going to be released. Plus, under 306 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: the state statutes in Wyoming, the only thing that the 307 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: coroner is responsible for releasing is the identification of the 308 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: body and the manner and cause of death, and everything 309 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: else is essentially protected. But there are reasons why. For instance, 310 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: in our investigation, we call this a homicide first and 311 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: then the cause of death later, and that had a 312 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: lot of a lot to do with certain circumstances and 313 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: factors that we observed and found on our investigation. J Scott, 314 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: Why are they not releasing any further information regarding what 315 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: was learned by the examination of Gabby Patito's body because 316 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: the primary person of interest, if we're going to continue 317 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: to use that word, is still on the lamp. He's 318 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: still at loose. He's still at loose. And listen, you know, look, 319 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: this has been said over and over again. We can't 320 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: trust anything these people are saying. He's already lawyered up. 321 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: Why would anybody want to give the lawyer any more information? 322 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: And this is very specific information to the process of 323 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: prosecuting a homicide. We're not We're they are not going 324 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: to be feeding them any more information that they can 325 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: use in order to get around the law or get 326 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: around any of the forensic evidence that that's found or 327 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: discovered or developed. I understand why they're not releasing any 328 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: information because it's critical to the case. There's just certain 329 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: things that we don't need to be privy to right now. 330 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: It's you know, it goes to the point with where 331 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: they're looking for Laundy to even say his damn name, 332 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: they're looking for him. The US Marshals might have specific information, 333 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: but they're not going to give it to us because 334 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: they don't want him to get away. They might have 335 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,479 Speaker 1: some idea where he is, but they're closing in on him. 336 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: I have faith they're going to find this guy, and 337 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: they don't want to reveal their hand before before it's time. Also, 338 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, there may be facts that we learned from 339 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: her body, for clothing that only the killer wouldn't up. Well, 340 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, because anything that you give to them, 341 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: anything that you give to them, is fodder for their case. 342 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: And there's things that are very specific to this event. Nancy. 343 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: This is an intimate, intimate, intimate crime that I still 344 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: think took place in the back of that van. There's 345 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: hold on I just lost j Scott trying to get 346 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: him back. But Cheryl, what were you saying? That wasn't me? 347 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 1: But I can pee back on what Joe Scott says. 348 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: It absolutely happened in that name. No, I asked you 349 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: a date on the why details are not being released 350 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: other details of the right car page. I didn't say 351 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: it's not the right call. I think it is the 352 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: correct call. But what I'm saying is why I'm trying 353 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: to explain why you know what I'll Q and A 354 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: with myself. The medical examiner is not under any duty 355 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: to tell the media or anybody else details of that autopsy. 356 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: The details of that autopsy may reveal facts that only 357 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: the killer knows. You don't want a bunch of false confessions. 358 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: You don't want to release information that could be compromised 359 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: in any way. There are many many reasons why we 360 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: say it's an on going investigation. I'm not going to release. Say, okay, 361 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: Joe Carson, jump in. Are you just absolutely covered it? 362 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: I mean, the most important thing here is the interview 363 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: of Brian Landry when he's actually apprehended. And I taught 364 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: interview interrogation for the FBI for a number of years, 365 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: And the whole point here is that you want to 366 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: make sure you don't get a fraudulent confession. So it 367 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: also protects the defendants. Are the accused in cases like this, 368 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: it's critical to the successful prosecution in so many ways 369 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: that the revelation of those details can ultimately co want 370 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: that to happen. Joining you right now, go ahead, there's 371 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: just coming to U. Mass Societes joining me from w 372 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: FLA jump and everybody. Massa is right there on the 373 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: Saint in Florida. Go ahead, Massa and I just you know, 374 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: I've been emailing back and forth with officials in Titon 375 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: County trying to get the full autopsy report, and you know, 376 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: this is what they're claiming right now, outside of that 377 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: schedual pressure, all the good reasons you guys are explaining 378 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: to not release anything more to protect the eventual prosecution. 379 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: I'm being told that Underwyoming state statute, full autosecute reports 380 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: are not allowed to be released to the public unless 381 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: it is sport ordered. So they're telling me, I'm going 382 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: back and forth with them on email right now, you're 383 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: not going to get anything other than that one piece 384 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: of paper that was released yesterday, which, by the way, 385 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: it was dated October fifth. It would final a week later. 386 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: But October fifth, they had created that document and they 387 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: had said it with thrittling death by manuel triangulation. All 388 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: the years I prosecuted and never really thought about the 389 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: public getting the autopsy report. I would have it and 390 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: go through it with a fine tooth comb, but I 391 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: never thought would it be released. You don't want jurars, 392 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: also potential jurrs reading the autopsy report and coming up 393 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: with their own medical conclusions, which, believe me, believe it 394 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: or not, they will go back to the jury room 395 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: and try to come up with other conclusions. It happens, 396 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: believe it or not. All the time, we did learn 397 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: something else, very interesting, very revealing. Take a listen to 398 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: our cut three zero one. Again, this is a Teachak 399 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: County corner doctor Brent Blue speaking to our friends at 400 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: a three six. You said today, and I'm quoting, this 401 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: is only one of many deaths around the country people 402 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: who are involved in domestic violence, and it's unfortunate that 403 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: these other deaths do not get as much coverage as 404 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: this one. Unquote. Your point about coverage is absolutely well taken. Um, 405 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who do not receive this 406 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: kind of coverage or this kind of interest frankly from 407 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: the public. Um that your statement that will also suggests, 408 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: and I don't know if that's intentional or not, that 409 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: that you determine Gaby Peter's death wards the results of 410 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: domestic violence. That is that an assumption or is that 411 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: something you're saying based on something you learn. That's an 412 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: assumption strictly domestic violence. I guarantee you a doctor or 413 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: a horn or a medical examer, it's not going to 414 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: burn out domestic violence for no recent crime stories with 415 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I want to follow up on something my producer, 416 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: Jackie sire and it's not half that. Listen to this. 417 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: Gabby Petito was a line on August twenty seven. Okay, 418 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: that's the same day as the blowout at the Mary Piglet. 419 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: I think Mexican restaurant. Could that fine have continued on 420 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: to her death that evening? Okay, what about it? Charon 421 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: will call me. You have analyzes the timeline over and over. 422 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any doubt about it, and that's 423 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: why I've said I can pretty much hitchhike and alone. 424 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: On the twenty ninth, I think that was alibi building. 425 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: By the thirtieth, he says, the bogus takes you to 426 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: her mom about Yosemite. He's already owned the way home 427 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: to Florida by the thirtieth in order to arrive by 428 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: the first. There's no question about it. The twenty seventh 429 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: is critical Society joining the investigative reporter with w f 430 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: L A TV joining us there in Florida. What is 431 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: the scene at the laundry home right now? Are there 432 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: any home repairs left to do? The latest we have 433 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: is that Chris Laundry came out and rode the lawn 434 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: and went back in the house. The reporters are still there. 435 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: After this autopsy information was released yesterday, there's now more 436 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: reporters on that scene. That's the latest of what's happening there. 437 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: But I did want to mention regarding the date of death. 438 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: The sci believe that she died on or before the thirtieth, 439 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: according to a news release. So what's sign pieced together 440 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: with the indictment that we read. Okay, how are they 441 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: determining that? We don't know? To Karen start joining the 442 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: psychologists joining us out of Manhattan today, Karen, the fact 443 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: that if Laundry did this thing, he leaves her body there. 444 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: We think, well, we know out in the open. We 445 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: know her body had to be moved, and that adds 446 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: to the theory she was murdered inside her own van, 447 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: her four transit van, and then dragged to that location. 448 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: But then think about it, he has two full days 449 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: to cross the country in her car, but he doesn't 450 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: mind using her debit card to stuff himself with what 451 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: fast food and make dogs. I don't know her debit card. 452 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: I mean, what frame of mind is that, But Nancy, 453 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: think about this. They're fighting with each other, They're stuck. 454 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: They're seeing in the restaurant. The anger is getting worse 455 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: and worse the fighting between them. This is a guy, 456 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: really who is capable of hurting her. We know that right, 457 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: of flapping her, of having angry outbursts, and he is 458 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: a killer, so he has no conscience. Is if it 459 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: was him who killed her. He's looking at her as 460 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: we talked about. It's extremely personal and intimate the way 461 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: she's killed. The person doesn't mind seeing her suffer and 462 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: die right in front of his eyes, right and then 463 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: he goes out the hitchhike. He's able to talk about 464 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: giving people money, so he has no conscience. He doesn't 465 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: care about the fact that he killed the person that 466 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: he was proposing to going to marriage, the love of 467 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: his life. Guys, take a listen to our cut three 468 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: zero two. This is again Doctor Brant was a very 469 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: very surprised that he spoke openly, but he did, and 470 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad to know what we now know. Speaking to 471 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: our friends at AC three sixty take a little doctor Blue. 472 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about a text that Gabby's 473 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: mother received from her daughter's phone on August thirtieth, and 474 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: if you look at your timeline, her death would have 475 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: occurred between August twenty second and twenty ninth. So if 476 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: this text on August thirtieth that said there was no 477 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: service in Yosemite came from Gabby's phone, can you say 478 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: definitively that Gabby Petito could not have sent that text 479 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: on August thirtieth? No, I can't. When we talk about 480 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: timeline of death this far out from the death, that 481 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: timeline could be plus or minus a week at a minimum, 482 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: and that is because of different weather conditions and different locations. 483 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: So it's really very very rough. It's not like TV 484 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: where they say, oh, they died on this date. It's 485 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: a very rough estimate. And I know that law enforcement 486 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: is using other methods to try to determine almost a 487 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: more exact date from an autopsy point of view. It's 488 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: a very rough estimate. Guys, we've got it right there. 489 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: We kind of figured it out on our own. Listen, guys, 490 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, 491 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: and go ahead of the three of you. I'm sure 492 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: you'll start waving at me. You hear the corner say 493 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: her death occurred between August twenty two and August twenty nine, 494 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: but we know she was spotted alive on August twenty 495 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: seven at the Mary Piglet. So now we've got her 496 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: narrow at the time of death, narrowed between the twenty 497 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: seven that night and the twenty nine, because the carner 498 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: is saying the twenty nine. I get that right, Joe 499 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. Yes, they got into this. You know, she 500 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: went back into apologize it to the staff at the 501 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: Mary Piglet. You know, he went in, raising his voice 502 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: and raising kane at the poor white staff. They get 503 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: in the car or that van and they drive it's 504 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: like thirty one miles from that point to where that 505 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: van was sighted. Can you imagine what was going on 506 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: in the van at that point in time, Like with Karen, 507 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, there was probably a fight going on into 508 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: the well. Can I tell you no man part? You know? Sorry, 509 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, no man. Light speed asked, why did you 510 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: act like that in the restaurant? You big horses? Rear him. 511 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to hear that. And I'm sure it was 512 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: like pouring gas on the fire. Yeah, I think that 513 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: it probably was, and they you know, they apparently have 514 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: been at each other's throats over this period of time. 515 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: There's been there's been problems. You know, any man that 516 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,760 Speaker 1: would strike a ninety five pound woman in the middle 517 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: of the street in broad daylight where we have a 518 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 1: history of that street, where everybody can see it, so 519 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: we already know he's comfortable with putting his hands on 520 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: this poor woman. And I don't mean in a gentle way. 521 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: So you can only imagine your analogy with gas on fire. 522 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, they're driving up the road, they get up 523 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 1: there to that campsite, and Lord only knows what happened then. So, Cheryl, 524 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: we've got it now between the night, was it the 525 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: night or was it lunchtime? We've got the twenty seven, 526 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 1: Mary Piglett, what lunchtime? Okay, and then we've got the corner, 527 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: giving us the twenty ninth. That's a pretty narrow timeline, 528 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: as far as I'm can start, a very narrow timeline. 529 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: You don't even have seventy two hours. And if we 530 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: place him with her during those seventy two hours, then 531 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,359 Speaker 1: what a little green man from Mars appeared and he 532 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: killed Gabby? I mean, right, can't you see the timeline 533 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: now becoming very very small by deduction. Not just that, 534 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: you've also got his actions if someone else harmed her, 535 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: why did he not a try to save her and 536 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: defend her, be go immediately to the police. See start 537 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: screaming for help. All these people that pass by that van, 538 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: he just shuts the door. He didn't try to flag 539 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: anybody down, no help at all. So nobody's gonna buy 540 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: there was a third party at all. And then you 541 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,479 Speaker 1: have his actions of the bogus text messages, the using 542 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: her debit card. Where was the fake text about no 543 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: cell service in Yosemite? Was at the twenty ninth? That 544 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: was the thirtieth? Okay, Hey, I hear Dale jump in deal. 545 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: You know we're gonna know precisely when he left. Okay, 546 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: because he bought fuel, we are and he was using 547 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: her card to pay for it, so that we know 548 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: he left on the thirtieth, as Cheryl was saying. And 549 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: so you do have that very narrow time frame, which 550 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: makes him the prime suspect, not just a person of 551 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: the interest in this. Dale Carson joining the high profile 552 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: while you're out of Florida, say that one more time 553 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: is slow it down place sure, in a circumstance where 554 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: he's used someone else's credit card in order to travel, 555 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: we're going to know precisely when and how he left, 556 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: how he traveled. In addition to which, when we know 557 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: the narrow time frame is so within two days essentially, 558 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: then of course he becomes not just a person of interest, 559 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: he becomes a prime suspect. Nancy. One more thing to 560 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: Dale's point, I think this is essential. When corners and 561 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 1: medical examiner investigators are standing around the table with the cops, 562 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: information is exchanged. Remember what he said, domestic violence. What 563 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: Dale is saying also is key. The coroner has an 564 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: awareness that there is an electronic tracking that's going on 565 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: with him. I think this is key, particularly with a 566 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: gassing up issue with using her debit card. They've all 567 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: been sharing information and talking. He has information going forward. Now, 568 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:25,959 Speaker 1: whether it was just merely a slip of the lip, 569 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: I have no idea, but he's informed, he's up to speed, 570 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: and yeah, he's not law enforcement, but he's on the 571 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: inside of this investigation. Ncy and Nancy hold on going 572 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: neck here and starts. I want to reiterate that it's 573 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: really significant. We've watched this get worse we've watched his escalate. 574 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: We could see, I mean, we have all this evidence 575 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: that they got stopped. That there's the encounter of when 576 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: they go in there and he's screaming and she goes 577 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: back and apologize. They are getting they are fighting with 578 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: each other. It's really really important to see that that 579 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: keeps escalating over time. It's all time, there's something to happen. 580 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: I got to ask you a question of aile've got you, 581 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:15,919 Speaker 1: Karen start. There are reports now that high school high 582 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: schoolers that went to school with Brian Laundry state that 583 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: he was an over their words, not mine, and overweight 584 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,720 Speaker 1: social outcast in school. Does that turn you into a bully? 585 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: But I hear that he's an outcast, so of course 586 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 1: it shows that he has a lot of resentment and 587 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: often revenge against the people who didn't include him. But 588 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: we also know from their relationship and what the friends 589 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: had to say, that he was extremely jealomancy. You know, 590 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: here's this girl, this beautiful girl that's with him. These 591 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: jealousy's controlling. I mean, everything points to somebody who is 592 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:04,879 Speaker 1: not your loving I guess also whether he was hard 593 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: for me to yeah, and and that put my mind 594 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: in my thoughts, in his mind that maybe he felt 595 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 1: like he didn't see the end, or he was an 596 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:21,400 Speaker 1: outcast or always looking at everybody else having fun or 597 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: having a girlfriend, and he gets Gabby and that jealousy 598 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: you're talking about. I want to following hold on, I 599 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: think I hear Moss society, Yeah, and Moss are you there? Yeah. 600 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,240 Speaker 1: I was just a quick point to what you guys 601 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 1: just said. I did ask neighbors about the relationship, and 602 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: one woman told me that Gabby always was really excited 603 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: to see her kids and went talk with them, and 604 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: she said that Brian was always in the background and 605 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: very quiet. And then the only other point that I 606 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,760 Speaker 1: wanted to make is doctor Blues comments regarding domestic violence. 607 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 1: If you go back, and I encourage everyone to do this, 608 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: go back and listen and watch. When he made that statement, 609 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,359 Speaker 1: he made it very slowly. He kept looking up to 610 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,240 Speaker 1: think the entire time. It wasn't a statement he'd blurted out. 611 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: Because when I was logging it, I noticed how he 612 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: was like struggling looking for the words, to find the 613 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: words that even though now he's walking it back. Looked 614 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: at how he said that statement me just by the 615 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: power of deduction have now reduced the time of death 616 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: to about forty eight hours. If Brian lad can be 617 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: proved it's proven that he is with her at that time, 618 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: it's gonna be very difficult, very difficult, if not impossible, 619 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: for him to escape the murder charge. We wait as 620 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,280 Speaker 1: justice and folds Nancy very supposed to her signing