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Speaker 1: And now move the Sticks with Daniel, Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

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Speaker 2: What's up, everybody.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to move the sticks, DJ, Bucky with you.

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Speaker 2: Buck.

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Speaker 3: Excited about this one. We've been kind of going down

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Speaker 3: our personal list of favorite conversations to have and we've

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Speaker 3: got another one of our favorites today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Tom Crean outstanding coach, great leader, and someone who has

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Speaker 4: really shared a lot of wisdom with us when it

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Speaker 4: comes to building teams the DNA of great players. So

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Speaker 4: really excited to kind of revisit those conversations.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for those that aren't familiar with coach Crean, you know,

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Speaker 3: obviously there's the football connection, the obvious football connection. He's

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Speaker 3: married to Joni Harbaugh, the sister of Jim and John Harbaugh,

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Speaker 3: so he's in a football family. But Tom was the

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Speaker 3: head coach at Marquette and basketball where he coached Dwayne Wade.

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Speaker 3: He was an Indiana with had a very successful run

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Speaker 3: there from twenty eight to twenty seventeen as he kind

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Speaker 3: of turned that program around, and then coaching Anthony Edwards

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Speaker 3: at Georgia from twenty eighteen to twenty two was his

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Speaker 3: time at Georgia, came across and developed unbelievable player there

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Speaker 3: inn Anthony Edwards. So he's had a lot of big time,

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Speaker 3: big time talent that he's helped nurture and develop, and

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Speaker 3: someone who offers a lot of wisdom in terms of leadership,

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Speaker 3: creating a culture, things that we definitely obsessive, obsessive of

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Speaker 3: on our podcast. We're always trying to learn and grow

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Speaker 3: and he's someone that I think has helped both of

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Speaker 3: us in those departments. So, without further ado, here's our

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Speaker 3: conversation with Tom Creen. All right, Buck, he's here. Excited

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Speaker 3: to have Coach back with us again. Coach, first of all,

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Speaker 3: tell us give us a life update here. Where are

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Speaker 3: you and what have you been up to?

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Speaker 1: Well, the life update is I'm in Lakewood Ranch, Florida,

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Speaker 1: which is a suburb of Sarasota. We actually moved here

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Speaker 1: when we left Indiana in seventeen and made this our

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Speaker 1: permanent home. My son, who was a baseball player at

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Speaker 1: the time, went to IMG Academy, and we had been

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Speaker 1: in this area because dick by tal would always have

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Speaker 1: his Jimmy V Gala and Sarasota and if stay do

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Speaker 1: you have a party in this out So we ended

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Speaker 1: up being in this neighborhood area. We live a mile

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Speaker 1: from him, and we knew even when we went back

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Speaker 1: to coaching, this would be our permanent home. So it's

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Speaker 1: been great. And then it's just been a lot of

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Speaker 1: different media things. ESPN just finished my third year with them,

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Speaker 1: did some MBS well, a couple of Peacock games for

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Speaker 1: college basketball, Westwood Won Radio.

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Speaker 2: I love that I didn't do a lot of games,

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Speaker 2: but I got all.

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Speaker 1: The way to the Sweet sixteen and the lead eight

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and now some Sirius xm NBA Radio Draft previews,

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Speaker 1: and then I'll be in New York next week for

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Speaker 1: their coverage of the draft, and then probably even some

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Speaker 1: Summer league. So keeps me busy. And we have a

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Speaker 1: daughter in New York, Meghan. I have a son, Riley,

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Speaker 1: who's in his fourth year now with the Dallas Mavericks.

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Speaker 1: Just got promoted to head video coordinator and player development there.

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Speaker 1: My daughter's got her job in New York, and we

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Speaker 1: got a twenty year old to just finish their freshman

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Speaker 1: year at Auburn. And my wife, Joni, plays a lot

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Speaker 1: of tennis.

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Speaker 2: I learned a lot about tennis.

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Speaker 1: I hear a lot about tennis, and I really don't

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Speaker 1: know much about tennis.

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Speaker 2: It's great to see her be happy. So it's good.

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Speaker 4: Good coach, It's so great you talked about all your

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Speaker 4: media things. In fact, I heard the draft preview show.

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Speaker 4: I think it was you fran Fascilla breaking out all

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Speaker 4: the different guys. And I have to ask you when

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Speaker 4: it comes to that, because evaluation was always a part

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Speaker 4: of your gig as a coach, but now you're on

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Speaker 4: the outside looking at players a little differently. What has

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Speaker 4: changed over the last ten years in terms of evaluating players,

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Speaker 4: either the types of players that are about to enter

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Speaker 4: the league or the gaps that you know that you

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Speaker 4: must feel once that once you get that player in

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Speaker 4: the league, because he's not going to be a polished

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Speaker 4: product that maybe he used to be years ago.

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Speaker 1: Well, one thing that's been good for me too, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't mention it is spending time being at some

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Speaker 1: different camps like John Lucas's camps in Houston or Dallas.

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Speaker 1: And just did a Nike Junior eybl camp for rising

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Speaker 1: ninth graders. Last week, I did the NBA PA Camp,

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Speaker 1: which was basically one hundred and forty of the top

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Speaker 1: rising seniors and juniors and what happens is it's so

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Speaker 1: great to not only be on the floor with those guys,

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Speaker 1: but to see how they think right and.

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Speaker 2: See their work.

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Speaker 1: And what's really changed is this, there's so much ingrained

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Speaker 1: belief that what they're doing, especially when they get into college,

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Speaker 1: is the way to do it, and finding people with

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Speaker 1: truly growth mindsets right where they want to learn, want

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Speaker 1: to change things, want to get better. You didn't really

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Speaker 1: think a lot about that ten years ago. Like the

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Speaker 1: majority of the people, they might be hard headed, they

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Speaker 1: might be difficult to reach, you might have to spend

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Speaker 1: extra time, you might have to break down some layers.

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Speaker 1: But even at my last couple of years at Georgia

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Speaker 1: and again things were changed and COVID had changed and

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Speaker 1: the portal and NIL came in my last year, people

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Speaker 1: are not as willing or open to change. And now

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Speaker 1: the money has changed it even more immensely where people

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Speaker 1: feel that the is the right way.

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Speaker 2: And I think what.

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Speaker 1: Happens in coaching is that too many people are accepting

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Speaker 1: that the evaluation process is more than Ever, how does

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Speaker 1: it fit your team?

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Speaker 2: Where are they at in their career.

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Speaker 1: You know whether they're a twenty three year old or

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Speaker 1: whether they're an eighteen year old. And then you didn't

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Speaker 1: get this with COVID because of the zoom recruiting. Like

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Speaker 1: my last team at Georgia had only two players on

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Speaker 1: it that I'd ever recruited in person. Everything else was

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Speaker 1: of zoom or videos. It was crazy. But now you

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Speaker 1: get a chance and it's like speed dating with the

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Speaker 1: portal and you don't really a lot of people aren't

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Speaker 1: really diving in to does this player want to learn?

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Speaker 1: It used to be how do they learn? And now

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Speaker 1: it's do they really want to or think that they

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Speaker 1: have to? So I think that is big. I think

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Speaker 1: how you fit into a team. I think you have

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Speaker 1: to look at the levels of coaching that players have had,

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Speaker 1: the programs that they've been in, what they've been asked

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Speaker 1: to do. I think there's way too much made of numbers.

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Speaker 1: And like there's a guy in the I think he's

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Speaker 1: going to be the steal of the draft, even if

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Speaker 1: he goes in the top ten. Is Carter Bryant from Arizona.

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Speaker 1: And if you looked at his numbers and if you

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Speaker 1: looked at his usage rate, you wouldn't even have him

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Speaker 1: in the draft. But because you can look at him

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Speaker 1: on film. You can see the upside. You can see

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Speaker 1: the athleticism, you can see the shooting. You can see

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Speaker 1: that even when he misses the shot eighty to ninety

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Speaker 1: percent of those misses, or in the cylinder of the rim,

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Speaker 1: you can look at him and say, this guy is

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Speaker 1: going to be a really good player. And based on

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Speaker 1: what you've seen so far, I'm not sure there's enough

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Speaker 1: of that. But there's way, way, way, way, way too

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Speaker 1: much being made of numbers, who's recruiting, who, what the

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Speaker 1: price tag is on somebody, and not nearly enough being

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Speaker 1: made on do they really want to change and learn,

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Speaker 1: how do they fit this program? And are they coming

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Speaker 1: in here as an independent contractor are they coming here

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Speaker 1: to truly truly help you win.

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Speaker 3: I love that coach. I was talking with a Major

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Speaker 3: League Baseball general manager a couple months back, and we

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Speaker 3: were talking about the workout process and how because baseball

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Speaker 3: has become an analytical sport, and he was saying that so

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Speaker 3: many of these teams are just so numbers based that

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Speaker 3: they don't place value on workout. Said, for us, it

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Speaker 3: is a paramount, like we want to be around these

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Speaker 3: kids not only to see what they can do, but

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Speaker 3: to see if they can adjust based off the information

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Speaker 3: that we're giving them when we get our hands on

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Speaker 3: them in a workout process. Talk to guys in the

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Speaker 3: NFL position coaches as the combine, we've said, it's become

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Speaker 3: a buffet, Like I'll do one of these drills. I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to do that drill. I'm going to do this.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to do that that these position coaches

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Speaker 3: have said. It's never been more important for us to

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Speaker 3: go work these kids out and be with them one

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Speaker 3: on one. Have you noticed that in basketball? Like what

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Speaker 3: type of weight does that carry? To be on the

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Speaker 3: court one on one with the player, to be instructing

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Speaker 3: them and watching them go through a workout.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's so important.

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Speaker 1: And when those rules change that allow you to do that,

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Speaker 1: especially like with the grad transfers when that was a

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Speaker 1: thing and things of that nature.

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Speaker 2: Are people that were seniors.

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Speaker 1: The only other way you used to get that is

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Speaker 1: if they come to your camp unless you were going

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Speaker 1: to be illegal and work them out somewhere. But then

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Speaker 1: when they change the rules that you could get with them.

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Speaker 1: It was immense because now what I always wanted to

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Speaker 1: do is I wanted to go through the film with

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Speaker 1: the player. And we had a player at Indiana named

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Speaker 1: Max bfl. He'd played four years or three years at

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Speaker 1: Michigan with a red shirt. He shot twenty six percent

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Speaker 1: from three in his career there. He'd been the sixth

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Speaker 1: man of the year on his team. Well, he was

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Speaker 1: a grad transfer. He visited US Indiana along with a

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Speaker 1: couple other people. We showed his film and we showed

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Speaker 1: him why I thought he was a twenty six percent

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Speaker 1: career three point shooter. It was his footwork. It was

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Speaker 1: catching it off the back foot. It was show there

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Speaker 1: wasn't squared up and there was no follow through. Well,

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Speaker 1: we showed the film and I mean we showed all

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Speaker 1: the misses and his dad was with us, and then

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Speaker 1: we went on into the court and the way he

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Speaker 1: approached the workout, the way he approached what we were

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Speaker 1: trying to show him on in this hour workout, and

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Speaker 1: the way he invariably started to shoot the ball. And

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Speaker 1: again you couldn't judge the makes at that point, because

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Speaker 1: we were trying to show him what we were going

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Speaker 1: to work with him on was coming off his hand.

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Speaker 1: You judge his missus. And the kid ended up being

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Speaker 1: great for us. He was we went to the Sweet sixteen,

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Speaker 1: we won the Big Ten. He went from being sixth

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Speaker 1: man of the year on the team at Michigan to

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Speaker 1: be in sixth man of the year in the Big Ten.

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Speaker 1: And he shot forty six percent that year from three

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Speaker 1: in one year's time. Like that's an outlier story, but

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Speaker 1: in the old days again, that used to be bigger.

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Speaker 1: Now it's harder but even more important that you get

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Speaker 1: that time to evaluate them. And you've got kids in

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Speaker 1: the NBA Draft right now, Like I was reading a

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Speaker 1: story about Ace Bailey, whether it's true or half true,

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Speaker 1: doesn't even want to go work out for teams. You've

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Speaker 1: got certain players in the draft that are they're just

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Speaker 1: doing one on oh workouts, And a lot of times

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Speaker 1: if you're doing a one on oh workout, there's something

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Speaker 1: you don't want somebody to see, right, You're hiding something.

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Speaker 1: The kids that will go out and compete in a

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Speaker 1: three on three matchup or two on two. The only

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Speaker 1: guy that really shouldn't have to do anything working out

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Speaker 1: right now is Cooper Flag because it's pretty well a

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Speaker 1: lock that he's number one. But the bottom line is

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Speaker 1: people are always trying to show you how competitive they

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Speaker 1: are or they've got this belief that they don't have

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Speaker 1: to show you. And I think at your level in

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Speaker 1: the NFL, it's even crazier. But if you don't get

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Speaker 1: real live coaches standing, putting guys through, getting their hands

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Speaker 1: on them literally, you know, with finding out where their

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Speaker 1: strength is, where their leverage, is incredible. Jim had a

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Speaker 1: secret ingredient with that. When he was at Michigan. Ben Herbert,

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Speaker 1: a strength coach, would literally bring these guys in, go

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Speaker 1: through their mechanics, show them on tape or pictures what

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Speaker 1: their guys had done, and then like physically, if he

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Speaker 1: thought a guy was weak in an area, he might

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Speaker 1: stand him up and the guy couldn't budge him right,

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Speaker 1: Like little things like that. Like that stuff's worth so

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Speaker 1: much more than just sitting there watching film or having

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Speaker 1: a conversation over zoom with somebody, because you want to

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Speaker 1: see reaction, You want to see how proactive they are.

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Speaker 1: But again, and I should have said this at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: but one of the greatest upside you have to recruit

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Speaker 1: to no matter the sport, to me is their athletic upside.

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Speaker 1: It's not just about their skill level, It's not just

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Speaker 1: about the level of where they can get in that sport.

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Speaker 1: It's what is the level of athletic upside that they

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Speaker 1: have that you've got to try to bring out in

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Speaker 1: this person because that's where the real growth is that

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Speaker 1: an intelligence upside and then certainly a work ethic character upside.

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Speaker 4: Coach, I want you to put on your coaching hab

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Speaker 4: which is always on. But it's so different now than

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Speaker 4: ever watching like college sports, watching college basketball. I grew

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Speaker 4: up a Carolina fan, went to North Carolina, so I'm

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Speaker 4: used to seeing teams developing four or five years under

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Speaker 4: Dean Smith and Roy Williams and those things. Now it

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Speaker 4: seems that the college game is very much like the

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Speaker 4: pro game and free agency, where you're kind of.

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Speaker 2: Dealing with a collection of parts.

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Speaker 4: You're trying to put them together four year in when

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Speaker 4: as a coach, how do you do that? Because I

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Speaker 4: heard you talk about I want guys who are not

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Speaker 4: independent contractors, But how do you flesh that out where

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Speaker 4: you get them all together? You have your thirteen guys

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Speaker 4: and you're like, Okay, we have to be a team

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Speaker 4: this year when everyone hasn't been invested in the program

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Speaker 4: for three or four years, like yesteryear.

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Speaker 2: Summer, summer, is by far.

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Speaker 1: The spring has really been wiped out for most teams

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Speaker 1: because players are transferring, players are leaving, players are coming in,

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Speaker 1: and you don't have them yet. The spring was how

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Speaker 1: we built so many of our teams at Marquette and Indiana,

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Speaker 1: so many of them. But now it's the summer and

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Speaker 1: you get eight weeks inside of that summer, and I

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Speaker 1: will say this the biggest edge force multiplier you can have.

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Speaker 1: And I know it's this way in football, but it's

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Speaker 1: definitely this way in basketball. You've got to have the

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Speaker 1: right strength conditioning coach. You've got to have somebody outside

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Speaker 1: of you as a coach that can put them into

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Speaker 1: some shared adversity that can create different environments like situation

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Speaker 1: basketball is. You can't neglect it. During the season. You've

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Speaker 1: got to play different situational games, scrimmages down ten or

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Speaker 1: to go down six to two to go, you know

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Speaker 1: all the different things. Well, now in the summertime, you've

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Speaker 1: got to find ways to bring your team together because

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Speaker 1: there's still a certain level of fear that if you

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Speaker 1: push too hard you're going to lose somebody. Because these

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Speaker 1: contracts are so easy to get out of right and

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Speaker 1: the rep share is going to change it some, but

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Speaker 1: you have got to I think where it's different.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: You've got to get your team to come together and

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Speaker 1: really understand what your identity is going to be. So

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Speaker 1: if you're going to be a really good transition defense team,

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Speaker 1: a really good transition offensive team, a really good rebounding team,

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Speaker 1: you can't wait till the fall to start to put

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Speaker 1: those things in because they're so new to each other.

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Speaker 1: You've got to get them to go through hard things together,

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Speaker 1: share some of those really tough things, not only in

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Speaker 1: conditioning and strength training, but on the court, and then

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Speaker 1: find ways to come together earlier than ever. And here's

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Speaker 1: another reason, because no matter what team you have, November

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Speaker 1: and December are so imperative to make it the NCAA

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Speaker 1: tournament because those are when so many of the of

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Speaker 1: the extra tournaments are or the mtes where you play

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Speaker 1: three or four games, and now a lot of those

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Speaker 1: are going to get replaced by nil driven games, so

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Speaker 1: the kids will actually get money from those games. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's still big games, right because you need that strength

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Speaker 1: to schedule to put you over the edge. So the

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Speaker 1: summer and then the early fall have become crazy crucial.

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Speaker 1: You've got to get your system in, but you can't

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Speaker 1: spend so much time on your system that you lose

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Speaker 1: what the identity is. And then you've got to keep

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Speaker 1: making sure that this is where that hard part comes in, spacing, shooting, understanding,

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Speaker 1: moving without the ball. Oklahoma City is so good. Jalen

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Speaker 1: Williams had nine points. He had of his forty, nine

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Speaker 1: of his points came off cuts, right, just cuts along right,

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Speaker 1: just cuts, reading the defense, random basketball. That's nine of

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Speaker 1: his forty just in one area that was not that's

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Speaker 1: just instinctive basketball. Got to start making sure where we

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Speaker 1: add in that in the summertime. But those are the

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Speaker 1: things to me. And when you can look back and

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Speaker 1: say you had a productive, but a hard charging summer

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Speaker 1: that wasn't perfect, but we got through it and we

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Speaker 1: got better, you're making real progress as you get into

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Speaker 1: the season.

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Speaker 3: Coach, one of the things we've talked about, I think

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Speaker 3: we've talked about with you as well as a bunch

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Speaker 3: of other coaches we've had on over the years. I

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Speaker 3: feel like we're a lot of us are together in

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Speaker 3: this pact. Then I feel like we might be losing here.

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Speaker 3: And that is the importance that we still feel of

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Speaker 3: multi sport athletes as high school players, and it seems

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Speaker 3: like every year the number shrinks of these kids that

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Speaker 3: are actually participating in more than one sport. Could you

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Speaker 3: make a compelling case of why, even in this era

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Speaker 3: of travel ball for eight year olds, that there's still

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Speaker 3: value in kids playing multiple sports.

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Speaker 1: The one thing that we're and you know better than me,

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Speaker 1: when they study the NFL draft and look at the

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Speaker 1: multi sport athletes, is that really going down or is

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Speaker 1: that continuing to stay at a high level.

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Speaker 3: It's in the NFL that numbers coming down, but not

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Speaker 3: as drastic as it is in other sports, Like if

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Speaker 3: you're a baseball player a basketball player, they are making

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Speaker 3: those kids go on one track.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, But look at the NFL, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, look at all the different sports.

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Speaker 2: I will to the day I don't have.

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Speaker 1: A voice left speak on what multi sport athletes is

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Speaker 1: all about. I've had too many of them, right, And

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Speaker 1: our own children, our own son, and watching that, and

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Speaker 1: our son didn't focus on baseball really until his senior year.

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Speaker 1: He got drafted by the White Sox at the end

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Speaker 1: of his senior year. It was a late pick, so

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Speaker 1: it wasn't one of those things where he would go.

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Speaker 1: But he played basketball, he played baseball, he did all

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Speaker 1: those things. If anything, he didn't play enough other sports.

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Speaker 1: Because what you learn, first off, just think of the

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Speaker 1: athletic component, which you get with your feet, with your shoulders,

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Speaker 1: with your hands, with your hips, with your vision, you know,

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Speaker 1: with change it and turning your body. Just the athletic

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Speaker 1: component alone is so similar to whatever sport you really

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Speaker 1: want that you're going to get better from that. And

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Speaker 1: then it's going through the toughness, the competitiveness. So many

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Speaker 1: people that get ingrained in one sport sometimes really believe

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Speaker 1: they can only they only have to compete and work

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Speaker 1: on their terms, right, And that's not what other sports

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Speaker 1: teach you. That's not what sports teach. You don't get

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Speaker 1: to compete on your terms. You compete on the terms

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Speaker 1: that are present, right, and you're either going to compete

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Speaker 1: and flourish in that or you're going to get backed off.

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Speaker 1: And I think every element that you have is is

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Speaker 1: so important. The best basketball football players we had were

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Speaker 1: really good in football, but man, they got in that

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Speaker 1: gym three, four, sometimes five days a week and just

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Speaker 1: shot right like they kept their shooting goal. But they

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Speaker 1: were lifting, they were running, they were competing, they were

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Speaker 1: being challenged, they were being coached. There was a drive,

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Speaker 1: but yet they still got in the gym to work

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Speaker 1: some on their game. I loved those guys, you know,

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Speaker 1: whether it was soccer, basketball, baseball, basketball, football, basketball never

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Speaker 1: really had any wrestling.

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Speaker 2: Basketball right at the same time.

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Speaker 1: But even tennis, Wes Matthews who we had, who had

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Speaker 1: fifteen years in the NBA, was a tremendous soccer player.

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Speaker 1: The only thing that kept him from being the best

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Speaker 1: soccer player in the city of Madison, Wisconsin, is he

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Speaker 1: had a teammate who was the best player in the state.

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Speaker 1: Right Like, that's the only thing that kept him. And

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Speaker 1: it's like that, I swear to God, I know that

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Speaker 1: helped carve out a fifteen year NBA career for him

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Speaker 1: because he was so athletic and he had such good movements.

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Speaker 1: The functional movement that you get, I mean, that's just

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Speaker 1: the athletic part. The mentality it probably outweighs that even

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Speaker 1: that much more.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back

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Speaker 3: with our conversation with Tom creen.

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Speaker 2: Coach. I'm fascinating.

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Speaker 4: I'm watching the NBA Finals and I've been tracking the

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Speaker 4: Indiana Pacers throughout the playoffs, and they're playing what is

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Speaker 4: different in.

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Speaker 2: What Rick Carlisle has traditionally done.

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Speaker 4: And I heard you earlier talk about coaches not really

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Speaker 4: wanting to deviate from the style. But Rick car parallel,

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Speaker 4: it's really done a makeover of his approach when it

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Speaker 4: comes to the way that they play. And so I

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Speaker 4: have to ask you, because you're playing up tempo and

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Speaker 4: you're doing these things. I've heard you talk about the

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Speaker 4: importance of strength and conditioning. How important is that too?

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Speaker 4: What you want to be able to do on the

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Speaker 4: court to have a well conditioned, tough minded team. How

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Speaker 4: do you get your strength goes? How do you get

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Speaker 4: on the same page with your strength goes seeing this

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Speaker 4: is what I want?

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Speaker 2: How can you bring that out? Of those players? The

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Speaker 2: best ones I had in the meetings.

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Speaker 1: And you can make anybody be in the meeting, but

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Speaker 1: if they don't want to be in, they're not buying

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Speaker 1: in as much. The best ones I've had were in

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Speaker 1: the meetings. They were watching the film. I would keep

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Speaker 1: them invested in recruiting film, I would keep them invested

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Speaker 1: in actually watching game.

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Speaker 2: Film I've had and some of the best I had.

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Speaker 1: We're all football driven, you know, they came from a

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Speaker 1: football background, and you have to be a little careful

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Speaker 1: with that, right, well, especially when you're training lower bodies

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Speaker 1: and things of that nature with the football basketball training.

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Speaker 1: But so much of it, it all starts at the bottom.

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Speaker 1: It starts with what you do with people's feet and ankles.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't have your trainer, strength coach and

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Speaker 1: your team invested in that, it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: problem at some point. But having the strength coach involved

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Speaker 1: in practice. The worst thing can happen is when the

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Speaker 1: strength conditioning coaches think they're an entity unto themselves and

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Speaker 1: just work for the athletic department.

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Speaker 2: I hate that, right they have to be with you.

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Speaker 1: It's like any time you have small group meetings or

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Speaker 1: anytime you have this small group leadership, you can't go

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Speaker 1: in there with prejudgment. Well a lot of times it's

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Speaker 1: not just the leader of the meeting that has can't

438
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,400
Speaker 1: have the prejudgment. You can't have anybody else in there

439
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 1: that's got pre judgment and that they don't want to

440
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 1: hear it or it's not their area. I couldn't stand that, right,

441
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 1: And because that's what kills you. And again, because I

442
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: say that, it's I wanted our coaches at all the

443
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: strength conditioning things. I didn't want them running it. I

444
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 1: wanted them there in support, right. I didn't want them

445
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 1: hanging around being on their phone.

446
00:20:59,520 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 2: You don't.

447
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 1: They had times where I told coaches, hey, man, go

448
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 1: be on your phone out in the hallway. Okay, this

449
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 1: is these kids are working in here. And and you

450
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 1: wanted them in support where the players knew that everything

451
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: that they touched, especially when it came to strength and

452
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 1: athleticism and conditioning and nutrition and taking care of their bodies,

453
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 1: was important to everyone. And then, and then what happens

454
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 1: is everybody gets smarter from that. Right, And you might

455
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: have your own area, but ultimately it becomes okay, whether

456
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 1: it's the meeting, whether it's the practice, whether it's the

457
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 1: weight room session, whether it's your season, it's all emission, right,

458
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 1: it's all emission. The meeting might be a mission, the

459
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 1: practice might be a mission. If you don't have everybody

460
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 1: locked into what that mission is all about, and that's namely,

461
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 1: get the players better, more athletic, more in sync, more together,

462
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 1: you know better, all the way around, you're going to lose, right,

463
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: you're going to lose. And I look at college basketball,

464
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: it's so easy to project if you see somebody practice

465
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: and if you have any idea what their strength conditioning

466
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: coach is all about. And the one thing that I

467
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 1: want to do when I go see somebody practice now,

468
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: I love if I can see something in the weight room,

469
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: I'll ask to see that because now you're going to

470
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: get You're not only going to learn something, but you're

471
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 1: going to see who is this important.

472
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 2: To the highest level.

473
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 1: Everybody lifts, everybody trains, not everybody's invested in what it

474
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 1: means daily.

475
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 3: Coach, how do you find out who the leaders are

476
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 3: when when you're recruiting kids? We talk about in scouting.

477
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 3: I've always told the story about Ozzie knwsome had such

478
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 3: a knack for asking the right question to get to

479
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 3: the right answers and use the example of when we

480
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 3: had a bunch of guys from one team successful college program,

481
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 3: had a bunch of guys in that particular draft and

482
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 3: asking them who the leader was, they all said the

483
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 3: same player, except one person said no, it was me.

484
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 3: And then Ozzy's next question was, Okay, you guys watch

485
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 3: tape on your own on Tuesday nights, right, other guys

486
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 3: that told us that, yeah, he goes well who holds

487
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 3: the clicker? And then of course it was the other

488
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 3: guy that was Ozzy's way of finding out, Okay, who's

489
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 3: the kid who's running this whole thing? But how have

490
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 3: you learned to go find out? You can see what

491
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 3: these kids are like athletically, some of the work ethics stuff,

492
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 3: But in terms of trying to find that guy who's

493
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,719
Speaker 3: going to be the pillar leader for your program, how

494
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 3: do you go about identifying that kid.

495
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 1: Well outside of your own observation and instincts. I think

496
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: you've got to go find the people that are off script, right,

497
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: And and I think of this in the scouting business

498
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: all the time. It's not about going to talk necessarily

499
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: to the trainer of the football team. It's not necessarily

500
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 1: about talking to the academic advisor of the football team.

501
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: It's talking about somebody else that's in that same academic

502
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: building that sees the player come through. It's talking about

503
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: the to the student trainer, it's the gas it's the

504
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: quality control guys. It's the people that know the inner

505
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: workings of that player. And I think when you're looking

506
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: at it in high school. A lot of times it's

507
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: it's it's observation to a degree. I love to sit

508
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: across from the bench, right, I love to sit across

509
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: from the benure being the end zone. You want to

510
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: see what kind of eye contact that star that that

511
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: best player has when it's not about them all right,

512
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: when in the huddle, when they're not in in warmups.

513
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: I think leadership can go so many different ways because

514
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: if you get the wrong character person that's leading the way,

515
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: because because others are afraid to challenge that person, that

516
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: becomes a problem as well. The best leaders I've had, okay,

517
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: we're the best teammates because they they knew their game

518
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: might be better, but they never acted like they were better.

519
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: And I think I think if you if you want

520
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: to find the non leader and the one that the

521
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: players will not follow when push comes to shove, it's

522
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: the person that acts privileged. And I think you've got

523
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: to be trying to sniff out privilege, sniff out entitlement,

524
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: see who's enabling. Sometimes the enabling that's just an enabling program.

525
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: Maybe the player doesn't really want to be enabled, but

526
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: maybe they are right because that's the culture of the program. Well,

527
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: can they overcome that? And I think it's it's who's

528
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 1: doing more than what is required? Okay, who doesn't look

529
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: at extra like it's a burden, who's bringing someone else

530
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: with him? And I don't think you just find that

531
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 1: out from the people that are at the front of

532
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: the bench. I think you find that out from people

533
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: in the building. I think you find that out from

534
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: other coaches. I think you find that out from somebody

535
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: else in the counseling office. Because everybody has champions, right

536
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: and there's a place for the champion, But you don't

537
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: need to learn about a player by just talking to

538
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: the champion. And then every recruit, every person becomes a

539
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: case study and you're just building up that case and

540
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: is this person who you think they are? But ultimately

541
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: it comes down to trust in your instincts, on your

542
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: own vision for that player, because you've got to see

543
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 1: an upside for them. Where I've gotten in trouble is

544
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: when I didn't really see the upside, or when I

545
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: listen to somebody else on it, and if I really

546
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: feel it, what you then have to do is you've

547
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: got to not have pre judgment on what you're hearing

548
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: or looking for you got to know what you're looking for.

549
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: Me then you've got to accept what you see, right.

550
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: And I think that's where people get in trouble when

551
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,959
Speaker 1: they're really rooting for somebody or rooting for themselves, to

552
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: be right, they start seeing it through the eyes they

553
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: want to see it with rather than through the reality.

554
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: And that's why you got to look at it enough.

555
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: And usually if it's checking enough boxes, you can work

556
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: through somebody that might get you know, have a bad edge,

557
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: or somebody that doesn't have great eye contact, or you know,

558
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: somebody that's maybe a little bit selfish. But man, they

559
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: compete and they play hard in basketball. A lot of

560
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: times people that compete with the ball really think they're competing, right,

561
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: But they are, but they're not doing all the other things.

562
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 1: And now you've got to be able to judge in

563
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 1: the leadership, can we get them to understand how important

564
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: it is that they do the other things and how

565
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: much they respect their teammates doing.

566
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:47,160
Speaker 2: The other things.

567
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: And then the last thing I'll say about that with

568
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: the leadership part, when you look out on the floor

569
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: and the game or the practice and it's a tight deal,

570
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: do they feel safer with that player? Because do they

571
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: feel safer, Do they raise the level of the players

572
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: not just because they're good, but because those players feel

573
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: better because they're out there with them, or are they

574
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: dropping their head that doing the scouting preparation. I love

575
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: watching the benches of when guys are taking shots and coaches.

576
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: Some coaches don't realize how bad their body language is

577
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: when their stars are taking shots, and.

578
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 2: I don't think they have any idea.

579
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: It's like that's telling you something, right, it's the whole

580
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: staff man, Like that's telling you there's an issue here.

581
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: And you may not be privileged to seeing it at

582
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,479
Speaker 1: all in practice, but there is an issue. And then

583
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 1: you've got to dig even deeper. And I think that's

584
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: you look at you look at what your eyes say.

585
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: You look at what the people that you really trust say,

586
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: You look at what the numbers say. And when those

587
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: things all kind of intertwine, now you've got a pretty

588
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: good idea of what you got. But if you've got

589
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: to exclude something, exclude the numbers, look at what your

590
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: eyes saying, what the people you trust that would know.

591
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 4: Say, Yeah, because you've been unique in terms of the

592
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 4: dogs that you've coached. Right from Dwyane Wade, Anthony Edwards,

593
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 4: Victor Oladipo, how you develop what's the common denominator in

594
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 4: the great players that you've encountered along your way.

595
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: Eventually they never looked at the extra work as extra.

596
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,719
Speaker 1: It became part of who they were, right it. You know,

597
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: Bill Parcells used to say, you know, do you have

598
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: a routine or are you committed?

599
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: Right?

600
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: And I think that's what happens. There's very few players

601
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: that will not grow into a routine. There's very few

602
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: players that will not do what's required. But the commitment

603
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: exceeds all distractions, It exceeds your doubts, it exceeds you

604
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: getting discouraged. I mean, you keep coming. That's what you're

605
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,719
Speaker 1: looking for. And I think that's what your vision's got

606
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: to be able to have. Like we were visioned for

607
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: a player on their worst days, you got to still

608
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: see it right and you still got to drive it

609
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: out of them when they don't want you to, and

610
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: that becomes something that's important. But I think ultimately the

611
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 1: best players had a tremendous desire to be in a gym.

612
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: They really learned to want to be watching extra film,

613
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: not saying they watched extra film on their phone in

614
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: their dorm, but actually being in the building or being

615
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: in the film room watching the film, there was no

616
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: real They didn't have time constraints on when they were

617
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 1: getting in the gym. They were just going to make

618
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: sure that they were in there. And then I think

619
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: the other two big things the ones I've had because

620
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: they were great teammates, They've had a really really high

621
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: level of empathy for other people. And my best players

622
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: have not been privileged. You know, whether it was Anthony

623
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: Edwards who was number one, or vic Aladipo had one

624
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: one scholarship offer right like, they were not privileged. I've

625
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: never dealt well with privileged. I've had some, and I've

626
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: had some that was really hard to break the entitlement

627
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: that they felt they should get. But the best players

628
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: I've had that have made the pros of the seventeen

629
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: or eighteen guys that have made the NBA, I probably

630
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: had two that weren't Jim Rats, but the best of

631
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: them were Jim Rats. And I think that's there's a

632
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: passion for it. It's not required anymore and it's not

633
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: a taxi on their mind or their day to get

634
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: in that gym, but they wanted to be driven, and

635
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: they wanted to feel.

636
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 2: Some pressure internal.

637
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: And they wanted to be competitive, even it was against

638
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: the details of their own game, to get better.

639
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 2: And I think those are the commonalities I.

640
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: Love, by the way in football, and then the millions

641
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 3: of scouting reports that we've all Bucky and I have

642
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: written that we still use the term gym rat even

643
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 3: though technically we're talking about football players on the grass field.

644
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 3: But that's a third to oh to the basketball world.

645
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 3: As you can imagine coach in my side gig doing

646
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: the Chargers radio once your brother in law, Jim Harball

647
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 3: was hired. I get peppered with questions all the time

648
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 3: from people all in all walks of life, Charger fans

649
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 3: as well as people in the NFL and people in

650
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: different sports world.

651
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: What's he like?

652
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: What you know, you get to be around him, you

653
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 3: see every game.

654
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: What's he like?

655
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 3: And the best way I can describe it is just

656
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 3: getting to see it. You know, from this vantage point,

657
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 3: I've always heard of, you know, the tough, hard nosed coach,

658
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: and then I've heard of the players coach, a positive coach,

659
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 3: and I felt like they were always described as two

660
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 3: different people. I said to me, I would describe Jim

661
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 3: as someone who is tough, detail oriented, of that kind

662
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 3: of tough grinder coach, But he has a very positive

663
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 3: outlook in praising guys. I mean he'll get T shirts

664
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 3: for if they do something in one game, he'll get

665
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 3: T shirts for the whole team. He's constantly reinforcing this

666
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: positive mindset into his team. And that to me stood

667
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: out is I feel like sometimes we feel like you

668
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: got to be one or the other. How important is

669
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 3: it coach to have the toughness side of it? But

670
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 3: then also you're just not screaming at players twenty four

671
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: to seven sixty five.

672
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: I think there's I think he's much more running junior

673
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: high football camaraderie mentality than he is the hard side

674
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: business of NFL football. And I say that with all respect.

675
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: He brings the joy out in a very tough, violent, aggressive,

676
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: demanding sport. And he brings it out because he's so competitive.

677
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you've been around him now, both of you like.

678
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: The competitiveness does not turn off. It might, it might

679
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: dim the light switch a little bit once off, and

680
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: it never goes to zero. Right, It's never dark, right,

681
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: I mean I swear, I mean it's just it's unbelievable.

682
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: And he's never not competitive, and I think with that,

683
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: because he oozes you, you can't be competitive and not

684
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: be confident, right, So like he brings out a high

685
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: level of confidence in you, he brings it. He definitely

686
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: did this at Stanford, and and it was unbelievable watching

687
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: what he did at Stanford. And then I think what

688
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: happened at Michigan, Like he brought out he got them

689
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: to believe they were way better than what they were.

690
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: I might have said this on here before, but the

691
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: first year he got to Stanford, they were playing USC

692
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: and Dick Vermel told my father in law Jack he

693
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: had been to both practices. He said, USC has got

694
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: forty seven to forty eight pros. Jim have one right,

695
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: And it might have been to Vita Pritchard. I'm not

696
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: sure what he thought was the one right. Then they

697
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: go on to beat USC that year, right, and then yes, yes,

698
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 1: And it's like Jim doesn't believe he's going to lose,

699
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: but he doesn't ever take it for granted. And how

700
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: he gets there and and and then because he's so

701
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: sharp and smart, he never lets the last play mentally

702
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: affect his next play.

703
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: And I've seen that firsthand since.

704
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: San Diego, USD, UH Stanford, you could see it at Michigan.

705
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: But I had the privilege to stand behind him a

706
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: couple of times at Stanford and USD, and it was

707
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: unbelievable watching him. I mean, he could get a fifteen

708
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: yarder right, throw the headset, be mad, and boom. He

709
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: was right back in the next play. Now he wasn't

710
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: smiling and cheering, but he was right back in the

711
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: next play. And I think that's John is not as

712
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: demonstrative with that. But John is the same way, and

713
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: that competitiveness that they bring out in you, like Jim.

714
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: Jim is like the coach in junior high that we're

715
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: going to work, we're going to go. But man, you

716
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: know what, at the end of this game, we're going

717
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: over there to get ice cream, right, And like they don't.

718
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 2: But that's kind of like what you'd imagine.

719
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean, look you see it, Look a look at

720
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: our Herbert and all those guys respond to him. And

721
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: he just said again they had perfect attendants again. He

722
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: told me this the other day. They had perfect attendants

723
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: again in the OTAs. But he got there. I was

724
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: worried because Ben Herbert is so good his strength coach. Right,

725
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: he was paying him over a million dollars at Michigan.

726
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: I really don't know if he ends up taking the

727
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: Chargers job if there would have been a snap who

728
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: and not being able to bring him, But they did, right,

729
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 1: Like that's his right hand. I asked him one time,

730
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: I said, I said, how is the transition Ben for

731
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: Ben from Michigan to the NFL with the players, And

732
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: he said, it's even been better? Right, and they get

733
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: it waldon Volbay and again, it's all the way across

734
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: the board. When they played for the when they won

735
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: the National championship, they only had two players that year

736
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: that weren't healthy enough to play in the game. I'm

737
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: the entire traveling squad, right, the entire team, and they

738
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: both had been knee surgeries. It had been the offensive

739
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: lineman that got hurt in the O House Ty game,

740
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: and another guy got hurt in the house in the

741
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: Alabama game. He had a full team, right, like Jim

742
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: has that way, man. I mean, he just it's hard

743
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: to describe that. You just feel stronger and more competitive

744
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: and more confident when you're around him. And the fact

745
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: that he's so well versed in all of this now,

746
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: and he's so smart. And Jim has never ever been afraid.

747
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: He's never been afraid to make a change that he

748
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: think wasn't working. I mean, at one point he got

749
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: rid of the whole defensive side of the ball at Stanford, right.

750
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: But he's also never been afraid to bring people that

751
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: maybe other people questioned, or maybe they were misunderstood somewhere,

752
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: maybe they'd been fired somewhere. He believes in him, he's

753
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 1: got him, and because he's so confident in what he's doing,

754
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: he wants to be around those type of people and

755
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: I think that says a lot for him too.

756
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back

757
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 3: with our conversation with Tom creen.

758
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 4: Well, coach, I want to make sure I give you

759
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 4: your flowers, because you put off some wonderful things as

760
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 4: a coach yourself. And I want to talk about the mentality,

761
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 4: particularly when you're coaching an underdog, because your teams at

762
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 4: Marquette were not necessarily viewed as the heavyweights. When you're

763
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 4: coaching a team that is lesser than, or perceived to

764
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 4: be lesser than, the opponents that they're facing, how do

765
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 4: you get them to think that they can accomplish all

766
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 4: the things that the heavyweights can accomplish.

767
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: Well, I think you have to show leading up to that.

768
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: You've got to show why you lost the game in

769
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: so many games, and why you didn't get and why

770
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: you might have lost you might have gotten beat. You

771
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: got to show no, no, we didn't get beat.

772
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:56,879
Speaker 2: We lost it. Here's why.

773
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 1: And I think that happens over a period of time.

774
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: And I think you show the good, but I don't

775
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: think you ever stopped showing how you could have buried somebody,

776
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: how you could have come back and won the game.

777
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: And it's not just about the end of the game.

778
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 1: I think it's a process of building up a mind

779
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: that we have got to not lose this game ourselves

780
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: and beat ourselves, right. And I think when you get

781
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: into the big games, and it's even when you win

782
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: a thirty point game, right, like, they don't want to

783
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: see what they didn't do, but they have to see it.

784
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: They have to see, Man, we won by thirty, we

785
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: could have won by forty. Here's five plays. We won

786
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: by five, we could have won by fifteen, and here's

787
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: five plays. And you just have to do that over

788
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 1: a period of time and then you got to practice

789
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: that way. And I think for me it's I never

790
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: wanted to feel like I was a underdog to a

791
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: Hall of fame coach or to a great program, to

792
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: a blue blood type of thing or something like that.

793
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: Even when we were in Indiana, we were really in

794
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: train wreck status for the first couple of years to

795
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: try to build through, and even though we lost, we

796
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: didn't go into those games. They may not have deep

797
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: down believed they were going to win, but we were

798
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: trying to prepare and give a plan that said we

799
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: could win. And I think that's you just practice that way.

800
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: I think it all starts in your player development. I mean,

801
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: I've had great coaches, but I wasn't missing individual instructions

802
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: in player development things. So I think that's when you

803
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: build a mindset into your guys of what they're capable of,

804
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: and then when you get into the full practice, full

805
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: mode type of stuff, you're helping them bring that out

806
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: in each other. But I think you just get your

807
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: team to a place where they know that if they're together,

808
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: and it's not about it's not about being afraid to

809
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: make mistakes right. It's not about how many assists we

810
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: get versus how many turnovers we get. Like, that's a

811
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: big one, right, But that's not how you build the

812
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: team going into the game. You've got to have different

813
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: ways to overcome what you're not doing well. And like

814
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, Game six with the New

815
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: York Knicks and the Pacers, the Knicks got four big

816
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: offensive rebounds that they turned in to putbacks in that game. Well,

817
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: they were probably a better team rebounding team than the Pacers. Right, Well,

818
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: the Pacers got four throw aheads on the break, Okay,

819
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: by getting out and beating the Knickson and transition that

820
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: kind of wiped out or at least evened up the

821
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: offensive rebound. So you're always looking for those things with

822
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: your team leading up to it and figuring giving them

823
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: different ways that they could adjust in the game to

824
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: get those things.

825
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 3: Coach, this has been so fascinating.

826
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: We could go on forever.

827
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 3: I just I'm going to hit you with one last

828
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 3: one here. We have We've talked about the NBA Draft

829
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 3: that's coming up. We had the NFL Draft back in April.

830
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 3: I know, like someone like Dwayne Wade has always talked

831
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 3: about your influence on his life and not just when

832
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 3: he was playing for you, but then you know, going

833
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 3: on into his professional career, would what would your advice

834
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 3: have been to Dwayne Wade? What did you tell Dwayne

835
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 3: Wade when he was getting ready to embark in his

836
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 3: rookie season? And then we think about all these rookies

837
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 3: that are now going to take the field this summer

838
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 3: for the first time.

839
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: What would your.

840
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 3: Message be to a rookie getting ready to step into

841
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 3: a professional locker room?

842
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: What got you here won't get you where you want

843
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: to go? And find the people that are going to

844
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: make sure that they understand that because what happens so

845
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: much right now. And Dwayne was really good with this.

846
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: We had five agents come in and Henry Thomas was

847
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: the first one who passed away a few years ago,

848
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: was phenomenally. He ended up joining CAA, but he just incredible.

849
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: Guy.

850
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: Had Chris Boss, Devin Harris, Sean Livingston, all kinds of

851
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: different NBA players, but he did a great job with Dwayne.

852
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: And the one thing he did he never came in

853
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: and tried to get Dwayne to leave school early. And

854
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: others did, well, you can go train here, you can

855
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: go train there. They didn't read it right. Dwayne had

856
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: a wife, Okay, at that point before Gabrielle, he had

857
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: his son Zaire. He also had a competition going with

858
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: one of our players, Travis Diener, who could have the

859
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: highest GPA that semester. And Travis got a three point

860
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: zero three point oh four and Dwayne got a two

861
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: point nine to six. Right, So like he was, he

862
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: was competing, and nobody understood that. Nobody asked right except Henry.

863
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: Henry understood no, stay right here. And I think what

864
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: happens is when players find someone that is really helping

865
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: them by telling them the truth, having the details, making

866
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: them work and not letting it be easy. They got

867
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: to find them because this draft process can turn you

868
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: right from going into I've got to maintain what I'm

869
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: doing to prepare for the workout, to prepare for the combine,

870
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: to prepare to be drafted high versus get better at

871
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: what I'm going to need. And I think what gets

872
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: lost in the translation between the draft process of the

873
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: end of the season to the draft and even in

874
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: the summertime in a lot of these programs is this

875
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: is what we've got to do to get better. Derek

876
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: Lively two years ago gets drafted by Dallas and my

877
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: son's second year on that staff, and there's a guy

878
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: named Sean Sweeney, just a phenomenal younger coach, and they

879
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,919
Speaker 1: brought Derek Lively into the workouts and if you could

880
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 1: have seen his left hand, you wouldn't have believed it,

881
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 1: like it was non existent. And later he said that

882
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: in the NBA Finals is that he he didn't really

883
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: have a left hand when he got there, and all

884
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: that time, you know that left hand wasn't being work

885
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: done right. But from the day after he got in

886
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: on that Friday and that Saturday in the draft, they

887
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: continue to work on his left hand, continue to work

888
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: on his feet, continue to work on his right shoulder,

889
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: to the point where that guy was a starting center

890
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: with real force into the NBA Finals against the Celtics

891
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: that year because you could score with both hands. Greatest

892
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: example I've seen recently of somebody that really understood he

893
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: had to make a jump, and the coaches never stopped

894
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: getting him there. That is a problem, right, because there

895
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: are not enough people that will tell you the truth

896
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: about what you got to get better at and then

897
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: spend the time with you when you don't want to

898
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: do it right. They let them train on their terms,

899
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you get into the game

900
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: and Rick Carlisle or Eric Spostra or Jason Kidding those

901
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: players they can't play you because you didn't get better

902
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: at what they need you to be able to do

903
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: to win a basketball game in November, December and January.

904
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 1: And I think that's the biggest thing. Don't ever ever

905
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: get away from the fact that you've got to get better,

906
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: no matter how much money you have, no matter where

907
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: you're picked, and if you lose that, somebody's beating you

908
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: out and you don't even know they're coming.

909
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 4: Coachy, I have one question for you, because you've done

910
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 4: all kinds of things as a coach. If you were

911
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 4: talking to a young coach who was coming off a

912
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 4: difficult season and they needed to bounce back, what would

913
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 4: you tell them to do to get his team up

914
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 4: and going following a disappointing season the year before.

915
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: Be in the gym with those guys constantly, right, don't

916
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: leave it to the gas, don't leave it to the assistance.

917
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 2: Have them in there.

918
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: The players have to see you, they have to see

919
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: you working with them. You have to get to know

920
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: them at a different level, study the film on their

921
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: strengths and weaknesses. Know everybody that you come in that

922
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: you're going to be in charge of the development plan

923
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: for that player and help see it through. And that

924
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: spins off all the one on one meetings, that spins

925
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: off all the little group meetings, that spins off building

926
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: a trust level. Showing up and playing coach and watching

927
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: everybody else do the work is not building a trust level.

928
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: And I think that's the transaction world that we're so

929
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: tough right now. Everybody wants to believe that it's a

930
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: transactional world because of the portal and the nil and

931
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: all that right now, and the ones that still understand

932
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: it's transformational on a daily basis, not just because you

933
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: said it was or because of the culture, are the key.

934
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: And I think that when you're coming off a struggle,

935
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 1: it's not just about the players that you're with. You've

936
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: got to make everybody in your group, whether they've been

937
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: with you, whether you're hiring somebody new, You've got to

938
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: give them reasons and tools to make sure that they're

939
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: as great as they can possibly be. Because what happens

940
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: a lot of times when you lose, you isolate, right

941
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: you go into your own world. You going to your

942
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: own orbit. And you can't do that, man, you can't

943
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: do it. It's too easy to do, right, Because now,

944
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, when you're questioning your own game

945
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,439
Speaker 1: and you're questioning your own confidence and your own coaching,

946
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: you start to lose that spirit. You start to have

947
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: some doubts, and all of a sudden, you self sabotage

948
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 1: your little bitself a little bit rather than getting out

949
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: there and being in the environment. And that's so crucial

950
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: and in this day and age, I mean, I go

951
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: back to when Jim was in San Francisco with some

952
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: of the stuff he was dealing with in there, you know,

953
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: with the owner in Trent Bulky, and how it got

954
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: so Jim had to go to them, right, I don't

955
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: mind saying that, Like Jim had to go seek them

956
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: out because people weren't necessarily seeking him out. And it's

957
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,479
Speaker 1: like when you're in trouble, people are afraid to talk

958
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: to you, they're afraid to be around you because then

959
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: you become a little You're not toxic, but they're nervous. Right,

960
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: you can never be afraid to go make it easy

961
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: for somebody to communicate with you and to get better,

962
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: irregardless if they want to help, if they believe it

963
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: or not. You have to do that, and then that

964
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: what that does. And the last thing I would say

965
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: about that, because whatever gave you the most energy as

966
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: a coach is the things you got to get back

967
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: to when you're struggling, just as much as when you're winning,

968
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: because people that win get away from what gave them

969
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: energy too. They get pulled in many different directions. What

970
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: gives you energy, what you love doing the most, You've

971
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: got to even double down and do more of when

972
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 1: you're struggling, and that feeds your energy, which gives you

973
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: the energy and the passion to help everybody else find

974
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: theirs coach.

975
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 3: This has been awesome. We got I know Bucky and

976
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 3: I are on the same page here. We take so

977
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 3: many notes when we get a chance to visit with you,

978
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 3: and there's so much carry over and crossover into all

979
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 3: different sports. And I am excited at learning through this

980
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: conversation today that that you are still coaching, You are

981
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 3: still you are.

982
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: I go back, Yeah, I go back. I go back

983
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: in the right situation. You know, I could be an

984
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: assistant in the NBA. I think I could do that

985
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 1: mentally easy.

986
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: I love it.

987
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,959
Speaker 1: I love helping guys get better. And you talk about

988
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 1: the crossover, It's like, there's so many things that I've

989
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 1: learned from other sports, especially football, that you apply to basketball.

990
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: I think I've said this on here before, but I

991
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: became such a better coach teaching downhill basketball and ball

992
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: screen basketball after watching Howard Mutt and John Tiernick in

993
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 1: the Tyernick with the pay with Pacers with the Colts

994
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: run one on one drills with the tackle in the

995
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: edge right and watching the edge have to get around

996
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,439
Speaker 1: point his foot towards the football not get knocked off.

997
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: And I had even deeper discussions with guys like Mike

998
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 1: Turgervak and Matt Patricia to the point like where getting

999
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: your foot, your shoulder, your hip turned around with that

1000
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: lead foot pointed towards the basketball. That's helped guys I've

1001
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: coached make a lot more money than they might have

1002
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 1: made otherwise because I learned that from football. And instead

1003
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: of stepping a certain way, getting that foot around to

1004
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: point towards the quarterback or the football, well that's exactly

1005
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: what pointing towards the rim is. There's so many little

1006
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: ideals like that. That's what I've always gotten my energy.

1007
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: So the crossover part is unbelievable. And what you guys do,

1008
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: who you are and what you do and where you

1009
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: do it at with the NFL network is just absolutely awesome.

1010
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate you so much. And being around Howard

1011
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 3: mud for the time I was with the Philadelphia Eagles.

1012
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 3: There's a lot of stories, a lot of Howard mud

1013
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 3: stories I could tell you, but man, he was.

1014
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: I got his book right behind me up there. The

1015
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: book is right behind me. I know you guys have

1016
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: read that.

1017
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 2: Oh he is. He is incredible.

1018
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 3: Again, It's sad that we lost him, but he was

1019
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 3: just a wonderful, wonderful guy. He came across as across

1020
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,879
Speaker 3: as a curmudgeon, but he cared and his players absolutely

1021
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 3: loved him. And he made a lot of guys with

1022
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 3: limited athletic ability a lot of money coach.

1023
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure.

1024
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: And for me when I was young, before I ever

1025
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: met him, And one of the greatest things was living

1026
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: in Indiana, being around Tom Telesco, being around Chris Pouleian

1027
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: and certainly Bill Polian, Tony Dunge, but being around those assistants,

1028
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: Tom Moore was alleged well Howard mud I grew up

1029
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: in Mount Pleasant, Michigan. Howard was from Midland, Michigan. It's

1030
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: twenty five minutes from where I grew up. So when

1031
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: you names like that that you don't even know, like

1032
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: when you meet them, you're like meeting It's like meeting Gandhi, Right,

1033
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's like, come on, like you're meeting

1034
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: somebody that's incredible, And that was awesome to me. But

1035
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: that's why when that book came out, view from the

1036
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: O line, there's a lot of coaching. There's a lot

1037
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: of basketball in there. There's a lot of basketball in

1038
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: Tom Moore's book. I mean, there's so many things to

1039
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: take from other sports that I've never understood why more

1040
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: don't do it. I get somewhat obsessive with it, but

1041
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: I don't understand why more don't do it, because it's

1042
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 1: really all the same.

1043
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 2: Man.

1044
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: You're trying to get people to be better at what

1045
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: they are, and you're trying to give them the details

1046
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: and techniques and mindset to get.

1047
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 2: There, no doubt.

1048
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 3: Well, coach, you're curious, and that's what we love about you.

1049
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 3: We're the same way, always trying to learn and grow,

1050
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,919
Speaker 3: and I feel like we've accomplished both those things today.

1051
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 2: So we appreciate you anytime. Thanks for having me. Thank

1052
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: you well, Buck.

1053
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 3: That was that was a fun one, man. I mean, look,

1054
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 3: Eric Musselman's great. You get a chance with Tom Crane.

1055
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 3: I feel like we're scratching this basketball itch. But also

1056
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 3: so much crossover and again another example of a coach

1057
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 3: who definitely pays attention to what's going on in the

1058
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 3: football world and is able to incorporate some of the

1059
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 3: things he's learned from that space to help him in

1060
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 3: a different sport.

1061
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:11,959
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1062
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 4: So such a great conversation to have with him, and

1063
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 4: just what he's able to add not only his own

1064
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 4: personal anecdotes, but because he knows the Harbors so well

1065
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 4: obviously being the brother in law he knows him, but

1066
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,879
Speaker 4: what he's able to share behind the scenes with Jim

1067
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 4: parmbro and contrasted with how John approaches it to me, man,

1068
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 4: the one thing that comes out not only his knowledge,

1069
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 4: but the passion that he has for being good coach

1070
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 4: and paying good forward and working with young people and

1071
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 4: doing all those things.

1072
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 2: I just love it, man.

1073
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 4: I feel so much smarter from having the opportunity to

1074
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 4: listen in for the last half.

1075
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 3: Hour now he is excellent. I know you guys enjoyed

1076
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 3: it as well. Again, we'll have more coming your way

1077
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 3: here as we get through the summer here. Football will

1078
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 3: be here before you know it. In the meantime, we'll

1079
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 3: have some of these fun conversations to go along with

1080
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 3: keeping updated on what's going on very quiet period in

1081
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 3: the on the NFL calendar. So that's gonna do it

1082
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 3: for us today and we'll see you next time right

1083
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 3: here on move sticks.

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Speaker 2: M hm m m m m