WEBVTT - Looking Back at 2018 (Part One) 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.080 This podcast is brought to you by that Da Da 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.440 Da a d T. A d T can design and 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.440 install a smart home just for you, and it's back 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:16.159 by seven protection like Doorman Service, which is an a 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.440 d T automation that unlocks the door for packages, friends 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.320 or your kids. Just visit a DT dot com slash 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.800 smart to learn more about how a d T can 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:28.320 design and install a secure smart home just for you. 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.200 Little Passports is the perfect holiday gift for that curious 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:35.240 kid on your list, Brian. I love this service because 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.639 with a subscription too Little Passports kids get a fun 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:43.720 filled package every month designed to inspire their curiosity in geography, 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:45.960 which we all need to be better at, I think 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:49.400 world cultures or science, and it's great for kids of 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:51.680 all ages. In fact, do you think they'd send a 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.240 Little Passports subscription to a sixty one year old? I 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.120 don't know. Maybe they will order today for holiday delivery 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:02.080 at Little Passports dot com. Slash Katie that's Little Passports 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:10.440 dot com slash k T. I E Hi Brian, Hi Katie. 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.600 I cannot believe, Brian, this year is coming to an end. 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.839 In subways, it seemed as if it would never be over. 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.319 Like a bad movie, if you know what I'm saying. 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.919 In other ways, time flies when you're having fun, and Brian, 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.240 the older you get, the faster time flies. It seems well, 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:33.720 you're younger than Springtime, Katie, younger than springtime? Are you 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:39.479 gayer than laughter? Are you? I promise we didn't plan 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.080 this anyway. As the year comes to a close, we're 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.920 gonna look back at the biggest names, the biggest moments, 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:48.640 and the biggest trends of But there's too much to 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.960 cram into one episode, so we're doing this in two parts, 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.320 splitting up the year into five count them five different themes. 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:01.120 Today's episode, we're starting by tackling the year in pop culture. 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.240 Will be chatting with Jia Tolentino of The New Yorker 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.720 and Ira Madison of the podcast Keep It. Then we'll 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:11.120 talk about lgbt Q issues with Dan Savage of The 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.880 Savage Love Cast, among many other things, and Sarah McBride 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.520 from the Human Rights Campaign. And finally we'll get to 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.360 talk about race with Chamel Bowie from Slate and Maria 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.600 Inajosa from Latino USA. Next week, we're gonna look back 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.280 at the year in climate change and who better to 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.200 do that with than Al Gore, and we're also going 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.079 to have a chance to talk news and politics with 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:38.120 Michael Barbarrow from the Daily podcast from the New York Times. 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.120 We can't wait, but let's start with pop culture, which 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.280 we all know. Brian is your bread and butter. Oh, 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:50.480 for sure, you love Regis, Philbin, Frank Sinatra, you know 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.280 the hottest names. He really is on top of things everyone. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.919 But as we mentioned, we're talking to two cultural critics 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.400 for this conversation. Gia tole Tino writes for The New Yorker. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.560 You might have read her masterpiece article on millennials earlier 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.760 this year, or maybe her piece about Jewel not the 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:11.400 singer the electronic cigarette. I like her because she's a 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:16.520 u v a alum wahua. Everybody's definitely my favorite UV alone. 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.119 I'm kidding, Katie. And then Ira Madison is here. He's 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:23.480 the host of Crooked Media's pop culture podcast, which is 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.079 called Keep It. He's also a writer on a new 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:31.280 Netflix teen sci fi drama dy called Daybreak, which is 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.040 debuting next year and no relation to Billy apparently. So 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.840 when Ira and Jia come into the studio, I swear 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.000 to god we haven't been talking for three minutes when 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.280 the biggest name of the year came up, Arianna Grande. 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.440 Of course, are you expecting me to say someone else, Brian, Yeah, 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.720 I don't know. I I I was expecting you to 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.040 say somebody whose name rhymes with drump I don't know, 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.320 just made more Mitch McConnell, or somebody in your or book. 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.560 Well that's where we started with gianne Ira, and they 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.280 went crazy, by the way, and then we got to 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.080 some other big names, big moments and big trends and 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:17.039 pop culture from two thousand eighteen. Listen, I know you've 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:21.520 been following Ariana Grande very religiously on her Instagram feed. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.160 I've seen a lot of your lives. I want to 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.440 say for the record that she's always been funnier than 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.600 Pete really. Oh yeah, look on our Instagram she has. 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.479 She did this fake wildlife video in Australia when she 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.800 was on tour, pitch perfect Australian accent. She's good. I 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.039 haven't seen prints on a few days. My you know 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:44.760 what that means might be open for young friends. You 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.919 might be did as mates. Let's talk about her a 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:49.680 little bit more, and we're going to talk about other 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:53.400 big names that we really witnessed in the pop culture 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:57.040 landscape this year. Gosh, it's funny. People kind of come 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.520 and go, don't they. But she's still white hot right now. 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.840 So let's talk about Ariana. Why is she? Why does 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.400 she have such a hold on people at this moment 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:10.320 in time? She's funny, said, you know, she's all I 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.760 thought the doughnut licking incident was funny. She's gonna hear 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.240 us since she was slamming, really because to me, that 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.080 was so embarrassing. But you guys think that brought her 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.680 a lot of street grad I think it's embarrassing young people. 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.599 Ourselves probably we identified strongly with what it would be 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:27.680 like to be drunk in a donut chop, try to 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.599 eat a doughnut and say I hate America at that 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:32.880 particular stressful point in time. You know, I've been a 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.280 fan of Arianna since the first album. Yours truly like she. 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.600 The thing about her is that she's been just slowly 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.560 her star has been slowly, slowly rising. She was pitched 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:43.240 at the beginning, as you know, sort of like a 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.200 baby Mariah Carey, which didn't really do her any favors. 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:54.640 That they even had her do like a cover of emotions. 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:13.840 She has vocals, She's incredibly challenged. She's so little. How 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.960 can that big voice come out with she? You know, 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:18.279 the first couple of albums, you know, it was it 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.880 was very retrou She kind of seemed like a songbird. 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.960 She didn't enunciate very clearly at all. One of my 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.640 old colleagues a Rota post that was like, girl, Arianna, 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.800 what are you even talking about? Girl? But on Sweetener, 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.520 I mean, I love the album. I think it's great 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.680 to it. I love that she worked with Para Williams 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.279 and Max Martin U sort of like a throwback to 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.000 the pop people. But g and I probably grew up 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.360 with what up with this whole thing with Pete Davidson 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.240 helped me understand this. So they got engaged after you know, 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.039 three months or something, and I think one of the 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:51.960 it was more like three weeks or something like that. 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:53.599 And the reason why, I think one of the reasons 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.920 that it grabbed people's attention was that Arianna has had 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.320 a wild year. You know, she had the Manchester bombing. 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.760 And Pete Davidson has also had quite a life. I mean, 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.760 his dad died in nine eleven, and it's sort of 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:12.080 this ultra millennial like bonding based on trauma and sort 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.400 of the perceived imminent end of the world, which is 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.520 the thing hovering over all of pop culture. And also, 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.480 you know, they're both really funny and they both knew 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:21.600 how to talk about their relationship in a way that 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.600 it was more candid than you normally get out of people. 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:26.960 It was destined to fail, but it seems like it was. 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.120 It was it was accelerated by the death of her 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.600 former boyfriend. Yeah, that was really sad. Can you tell 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.680 to explain that to our listeners. Her former boyfriend was 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:42.160 Mac Miller, who was a rapper I really enjoyed and 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.680 also someone that steadily got better and better and better. 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:46.800 I didn't always like him, but by the end, Yeah, 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:51.120 like his last album was fantastic. Um. He's a person 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:54.840 who struggled with you know, addiction issues, um over the years, 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:59.160 and once this relapse happened, Um, I think that was 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:04.240 just one more trauma tossed into Ariana's life. The opioid 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:08.320 crysis has come to music. Really. You know, Tom Petty, Prince, 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.760 Mac Miller, and Little People died from ventinyl overdoses. That's 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.000 a lot. Okay, we're gonna take a bit of a turn, 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:17.960 and we're gonna talk about somebody else with a lot 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.920 going on in Kylie Jenner, who was, among other things, 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:26.720 on the cover of Forbes for being self made potentially 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:32.320 quote self made youngest billionaire. So is she self made? Not? 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:37.280 By my definition? Scratch that take um. I think coming 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.400 from incredible family wealth does not negate being hard working 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.960 and having a extremely sharp instinct as all those women 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.400 do for what how you can monetize identity and beauty 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:53.240 and female personhood in in this age. I think people 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:57.160 often mistake I worked hard for I'm self made, And 0:08:57.600 --> 0:08:59.880 to me, those are quite different, especially since her brand 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.400 is just sort of herself. It seems like all of 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.040 this came from her person. But it's like you wouldn't 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:09.760 it is true, but you also wouldn't put like a 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.680 Rockefeller on forums and say that they're self made. Let's 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.079 talk about some other boldface names that got a lot 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.560 of attention this year. Donald Glover, I mean childish gampino 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.840 that he to me, had such a breakthrough moment and 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.400 he was obviously making a lot of noise people were 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.319 noticing Atlanta, but this brought him to a new level 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.520 didn't it Ira, Yeah, I mean there was Atlanta, it 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.720 was that this is America. I've listened to his music before, 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:42.480 and you know, a lot of it was sort of soundcloudy. Yeah, 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.000 He's he's um. That's the theme with a lot of 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.920 artists this year. Actually, I feel like they've been getting better. 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.040 This was you know, just sort of him dipping into 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:55.720 soul music a bit more. And it just really came 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.600 out in a time when you know, people were willing 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:03.880 to talk about politics and music and also and race. 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:22.040 But also the video it's just so vivid and grim 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.280 and I don't personally love the video. I don't. I 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.240 don't like it when when stuff is I mean, everyone 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.680 is hungry for stuff that's of the moment, but it's 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.720 so on the nose. Having said that, it did make 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.360 such a huge impression. I mean it was everywhere. You 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.719 couldn't avoid it. Why did that catch such fire at 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.040 that moment in time? In your view era, it's made 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.120 for people to talk about it. You know, it's him 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.679 shooting um other black people in the video, it's him 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:53.080 waring Confederate stob trousers, right, and some of the symbolism 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.360 I think people enjoy when they have to kind of 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.960 peel away some of these things that are not necessarily 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.840 over or too obvious, and I think people had fun 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.439 kind of looking for the hidden meaning. Some not hidden obviously, 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.120 but you know, the horse, the person on the horse 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.000 riding by, and all those other things. I mean, it's 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.280 the reason why drake klungs are so popular too. You know, 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.400 like you have to capitalize on the fact that there's 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.720 so much content now and if you make a song, 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.480 if you make a music video that people can dissect online, 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.000 it's going to help your song be better and sort 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.720 of way through. And you know, with such a violent 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.360 video like that, and then you put some imagery in there, 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.840 people were going to be talking about it. Another performance 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.199 that really captured people's imaginations this year was Beyonce's at 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:48.880 Coach Can you talk a little Well, I'm from Texas, 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.600 I'm from Houston. You know, first time I saw Destiny 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:53.600 Child was at the Rodeo in seventh grade, so you know, 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:55.679 I've been there from the beginning. I saw them at 0:11:55.720 --> 0:12:00.880 the Milwaukee Summer Fest. That was great, was at Beach 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.800 Ella and it was I'm feeling it now. I just 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.280 I mean, she's the first black woman to ever headline Coachella. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.320 That's wild. How did it take so long? It's also 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.760 weird because you know, I was never a big coach 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.360 Ella person before, and you know, actually that's why. And 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:24.680 looking looking back, right, it was always just the whitest place. 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.880 But then, you know, I feel like when Kanye performed 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.880 a few years ago, like they started shifting more towards 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.400 like hip hop acts and things and less white people 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:35.920 playing music on the desk. So one of the reasons 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.520 it was so extraordinary was that Beyonce didn't do it 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.240 on Coachella's terms, right, she did it all on her 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.200 term she put on. She was sort of like performing 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.319 musicology in real time. She One of the things that's 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.199 extraordinary about her is that the way you know, she 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:51.400 was really dismissed early in her career is just kind 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.880 of producing generic pop stuff. But here you see in 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.280 a set like this, she's reinterpreting all of these old, old, 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.960 old songs in the language of a New Orleans set 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.000 in line in the language of you know, of like Houston, Texas, 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.760 like chopped and screwed, dirty rap. It's like she is 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.440 making this this long line of tradition that she has 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.240 been working within Come Alive, and she did it so beautifully. 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.160 It seems to me that she and jay Z have 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:18.520 really mastered the art of being famous. You know, she's 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.600 the only person who could take over Vogue magazine and 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.800 have full editorial control. Do you see any danger in 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.679 her power? Well, I don't think any celebrities should be 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.360 able to take over get editorial control over magazine, but 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.520 it does seem to be the way that we're headed. Yeah. 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.199 You know Oprah's interview with Michelle Obama, you know, and like, oh, 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:41.000 you know, it seems like we're towards the celebrities interviewing 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.080 and there was like the one of the worst ones 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:44.800 was like I'm a Stone and Jennifer Lawrence. They were 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.640 just like, oh my god, you're so pretty, and it 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.760 was like, you know, actually, this is why the interview 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.320 magazine model. Do you remember, interview has a place right 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.520 because they would do it at a certain angle right 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:59.240 like they would they would get they would match people 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.360 up in the ways. That's sometimes you know, those those 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.119 conversations be interesting. But isn't it important to have editorial 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:08.040 control and an editorial voice so that celebrities don't take 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.439 over the world. Yeah, I thought like a good version 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:15.280 of that was Timothy Shallaba being interviewed by Harry S. Yeah, 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.000 it was, Yes, it was like they're both in a 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.880 certain space in pop culture and we benefited from hearing 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.320 them talk to each other. Another person who seemed to 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:35.000 have a huge year was Tiffany Hattish. She's amazing. Yeah, 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.200 why do you think that she burst onto the scene 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:41.400 in such a huge way. Comedy was sort of needing 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.560 a voice like hers. Some people have tried to lodge 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.320 it on plaint, you know that, like, oh, she's almost 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.200 the same in every movie, But that's what people want. 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.200 You let people do that before, and it can work 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.520 if they're we like them. Hollywood studio system was built. 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.360 You know exactly what you're going to get from a 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.800 gin Cali movie. We've gone from big names and now 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.280 we want to just talk about some big moments of 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.960 the year. One was Oprah and her her Time's up 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.600 me to speech at the Golden Globes. So I want 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.440 all the girls watching here now to know that a 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:22.360 new day is on the horizon, and when that new 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:31.080 day finally dawned, it will be because of a lot 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.320 of magnificent women. Many of them are right here in 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:40.760 this room tonight and some pretty phenomenal men. Was that 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.000 as significant as people are making it out to be. 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.320 I don't know. I mean, I've almost forgotten she gave 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.640 that speech until now. Um, I think that it didn't 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:58.040 have that much impact within the overall music day is 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.560 on the horizon. For my money, you know, I hate 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.280 a word shows. I don't watch them for my money. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.880 The most impactful moment at an award show was Franz 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.400 McDorman introducing the world to the concept of the inclusion writer, 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.520 which nobody uses, which people are starting to use though, 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.800 or yeah yeah, yeah yeah. Michael B. Jordan's company uses 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:19.000 that women are writing things clauses about nudity in their contracts, 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.560 like there there's stuff there is like that structural sort 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.560 of legal protection is ramping up in that to me 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.760 means a lot more than whatever rhetorics someone says it 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.240 a speech, you know, at an award show that will 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.600 get reaggregated everywhere for three days and then everyone will 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.520 forget about it. You've written so much about me too, 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.320 and Time's up And now Times Up has a new CEO, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.640 Lisa Borders, who came from the w n B A 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.280 a lot of people in art, business and media have 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:50.080 lost their jobs and been banished. And I'm curious, have 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:54.320 you seen the movement go from activism to activation because 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:58.720 I keep waiting for concrete things that are happening in 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.320 sort of a bunch of arenas, and I don't really 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.639 see it. I do think that for me always the 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.080 question about me too, which is again you know, started 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.400 by Toronto Brick a long time before this last year. 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.640 There's been so much conversation about what's going to happen 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.800 to these men. There's been so much focus about these 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.440 men and they attempts to make a comeback and their 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.120 feelings over the past year, and to me, it obscures 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:21.640 the fact that, you know, like women couldn't get credit 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.359 cards on their own until the seventies, right like, we 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.000 are still a long way away from change that will 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.639 feel satisfying. We are still in the cycle of backlash. 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.439 Like you know, the Kavanaugh confirmation was I think partly 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.679 a response to me to the fact that Republican support 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.000 for him went up during the hearing. Means a lot. 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.840 And so from the beginning, I've just tried, you know, 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.080 as a young person who always expected that I would 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.359 be equal and has over the last few years, have 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:48.520 been realizing that a lot of the country doesn't, you know, 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.560 want things to be that way. I know, isn't that 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:55.040 a sad revelation, But I'm but I feel lucky to 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:56.639 have been to be young enough that I grew up 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.600 expecting it, which not is not the case for a 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.760 lot of older generations. And I've just tried to remember 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.239 that change is going to be slow. It's always it's 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:06.399 always been slow, it's always been uneven, and you have 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:07.879 to keep your foot on the gas. You have to 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:09.560 keep your foot on the gas. And to me, you know, 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.600 like what what matters the things that the media ends 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.520 up talking about with me too, is not again where 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.800 the change happen is the change happens in different language 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.080 and contracts, and the change happens in HR meetings, and 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.680 the change happens in hiring. Well, isn't it progress that 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.240 a lot of bad actors have gotten fired and the 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.520 message has sort of gone out that this behavior is unacceptable. 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:29.880 But I think we're seeing again, I think we're seeing 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.919 the backlash and again, you know, what happens to people 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:34.760 who have done things that are wrong? Is not that 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.679 important to me, what's important is the structures that are 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.600 in place to make to make things more equal within 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.560 the institution that those people got kicked out of, particularly 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.280 because you know, there's so many people like Louis c 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.320 k or something get to come back because one they're successful, 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.600 and you know there within still this echo chamber of 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.439 a fan base who will support them no matter what 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.399 they do. And you know a lot of people in 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.280 the industry talk about how much time do we have 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.399 to wait for this person to be out of the 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.040 spotlight before they come back? And I think as long 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:13.760 as people keep focusing on that instead of changing things, um, 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.600 Hollywood is just it's really just sort of an ebb 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.600 and flow right now. I don't think anything really structural 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:24.480 is happening aside from the way that we're talking about. 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.000 We're still talking about it, and that's a good thing. 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:29.280 So let's talk about Kanye in the Oval office with 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.359 President Trump. You know, people expect that if you're black, 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.920 you have to be democratic. I have a I've have 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:40.000 conversations that basically said that welfare is the reason why 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.600 a lot of black people end up being democratic. Say, 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:44.800 you know, if that was a big moment, what did 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.919 you make of it. I've been I've been of the 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.960 opinion very strongly for the last ever since social media happened. 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:53.199 Is that, you know, I mean, I think we'd all 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:57.359 be better off if we made celebrity opinions matter much less. Um. 0:19:57.359 --> 0:19:59.560 It's interesting. It's like this year has been just like 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:03.159 the it's the it's the revision of the Kanye Taylor 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:07.359 VMA's feud where where Taylor finally spoke up about politics, 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:09.760 urge people to vote, urge them to vote for a Democrat. 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:12.800 But then Kanye ended up in the White House talking, 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.119 you know, wearing a Maga hat, And to me, it 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.959 was like, maybe we shouldn't look to celebrities for our 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:22.119 It's also the fun hypocrisy of it too, because you know, 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.520 it's the conservatives of the right are often talking about 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.520 how they don't want celebrities chogging and on politics, but 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.520 it's usually just when celebrities are telling people to vote 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:35.760 for Democrats. Uh, as soon as the celebrity hops over 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.919 at wants to you know, wear a Maga hat, um, 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.119 then we should be listening to that celebrity's opinion. But 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.879 now he's disavowed Donald Yeah, because he was in a 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.520 manic episode and then uh yeah, I mean it's really regretful. 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.159 Kanye has fallen off harder than any I mean, Kanye, 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.720 it's one of the best producers, like one of most 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.639 influential musicians of this era, and this new album that 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.240 he put out is awful, and and his his work 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.000 got bad, everything else got bad at the same time. 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.440 And to me, the when he went to the White House, 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.719 it didn't mean anything because again, like I try not 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.600 to think that it means like hanging on to every 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.960 single word that Kanye said about politics at any point 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.040 is never going to be particularly helpful to the discourse 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.199 or anything. If you've been a fan of Kanye, you 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.880 know that he has never really been great are issues 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:25.160 of politics, you know, on um even misogyny towards black 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:27.640 women in his music and things. And it's just sort 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:31.560 of once he came to this place, it was sort 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:38.600 of expected. It's sort of exactly what promised us with celebrities, 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:42.520 Like there's a direct line between Beyonce taking control of 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:47.200 Vogue and Kanye is sort of putting himself out there 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.159 in front of everyone because I think that he was, 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.320 you know, trying to magically control his own image and 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.840 you know, fix the fact that you know, creatively, um, 0:21:57.880 --> 0:21:59.520 he was a bit in a slump. There is a 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.960 direct line also to Kim Kardashian, you know, got Alice 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:06.159 Johnson released from prison, right And it's like all of 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:10.400 this is happening on an individual charisma, celebrity based situation 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:12.800 where this is like not helpful. We should be speaking 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.359 broadly about what happens needs to happen with criminal justice 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.440 reform instead of Kim Kardashian marching in and getting clemency 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.520 for one person. I mean, it's just such a distraction 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:24.600 from the actual basis of change. And having said that, 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:28.800 you know, I think that certainly so many celebrities have 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:34.080 felt compelled in and this trump you know environment we're 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.639 living in to speak out on female empowerment, to speak 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.400